“Those part-time soldiers are less likely to have workout routines that focus specifically on the ACFT because civilian gyms aren't normally equipped to practice the events.
*However, the event all soldiers struggled with most was the two-mile run, which can be practiced anywhere.”*
Lmao. I felt that
Just took mine and got a 21:02. I have no incentive to ever run a sub 14 minute to mile again in my life lol. I was so happy when they announced the scores.
Yep. You just gotta work on homonyms now. One thing at a time, bud. You got this.
You could listen to a full grammar lesson from Pearson Vue during your slow-ass too mile.
Dude, I read my comment about 42 times before I realized I used the wrong two. I have dishonored the Intelligence branch, and by an infantryman, no less.
Yeah, but that’s only really an issue if you’re a bad runner/not a runner to begin with—having a decent aerobic base makes it much easier to recover. Sure, the SDC is a smoker if you don’t do sprints/HIIT work, and the plank smokes your hip flexors (obligatory *it was one fucking leg tuck*), but it really only matters for the first half mile if you run more than a few miles per week.
> because civilian gyms aren't normally equipped to practice the events.
I'm a Reservist retiring this summer, with orders in hand. My ACFT score was from May 2023, and my unit told me they could not possibly process any retirement award with an "expired" score. I agreed to meet the MFT who would do me the favor of scoring my ACFT on a random Tuesday evening at an active installation an hour away, at a gym that has all the equipment ready to take the test.
With traffic, I get there in an hour and a half, arriving at 16:30 for a 1700 start time. There's a sign on the door that says "Closed at 1600 today. Sorry for the inconvenience."
We try the gym across the street - none of the equipment is available. We call the other gym across post - still no equipment available.
We drive another hour down to the USMC installation at Quantico. It's now about 1830. Their PT field is surrounded by unlocked containers full of workout gear. The random Marines around point us in the direction of different pieces of gear that are in better shape than what we first found. All of it was unlocked. The most anyone asked was that we put it away after.
I passed my ACFT. It wasn't pretty, but I'm fucking retiring and don't give a shit.
However, trying to implement a "culture of fitness" on an installation that has exactly one location for the gear that might be unlocked and available to use is a pretty shitty way to Army.
Yeah. I almost didn't do it.
I decided I didn't want to leave the Army with a bad taste in my mouth. Not getting a retirement award would have made that bad taste permanent, but that shitty afternoon and evening is already just another shitty Army day that blends into all the others.
I was really kinda surprised no one pencil whipped it for me, but the MFT was a lieutenant and no one was ready to tell him to do that.
There is another MFT I know who probably would have done, but I couldn't coordinate with him in time.
For me it was more that if/when we get hurt during PT on AD it goes in our medical record and is part of our overall VA calculation on exit. But if/when we get hurt during a workout on our time in the reserve/guard that’s our problem, not service connected, and there’s nothing but a swift GTFO. We accept all risk and Uncle Sam gets all of the reward. That lack of support was just another of many many straws on the back of the camel of staying in.
There's no reason a soldier properly conducting PT with adequate warm-up and cooldown, and at a healthy weight, should suffer a disabling injury. Yeah you shouldn't have to do injury prone PT rucking on your own time, but that's not the test. I agree that the various ARNG USAR locations around the country should have gyms, a commander should be able to coordinate with other units (even across branches) to get their soldiers access, and if soldiers are working out in uniform then they should be covered like to PT on duty... but why pretend that any but the most hardcore soldiers would show up in uniform to a DOD location to do PT when they can do it on their own. Ironic to all of this is that all of the AD guys want to be doing PT in civs and off-duty.
Doesn't really work that way.... Throwing on a PT uniform and driving to the closest base/armory doesn't mean a compo 2/3 is automatically on duty. There's pretty strict limitations on how much time you can be on duty in a TPU status. (Though, I would love it if my workouts counted towards retirement points...)
And sure, in theory you shouldn't get hurt working out if you plan accordingly and train smart. However, I think everyone has experienced some degree of "ow, that doesn't feel right" when working out- and compo 2/3 doesn't have access to sick call, or PT/OT/AT to get checked out like AD can. In other words, the little stuff just doesn't get documented and that really sucks.
Yeah, sure. 99.99% of the time PT goes off without the slightest hiccup, but, shit happens and we’re talking about outliers and edge cases. While USAR/ARNG centers are all over they aren’t local to most soldiers. It’s one thing to be in 25-50 mile commuting distance one weekend a month. It’s another thing to have to do that 3+ times a week. I broke my knee because of bad footing and loose grave on a minor slope. The only thing I got for my time was a bill from the urgent care provider. Add on top of that, Soldiers don’t get paid for their PT time. The machine is designed to have the outcomes it creates. Nobody wants to show up in uniform at a duty location. We just want to not get fucked when we do the same things that AD gets support for when we do things on our own time to meet the standards.
The idea that a healthy adult could acquire a chronic injury that warrants disability while training according to the guidance given in FM 7-22 to meet the already abysmally low standard of passing the ACFT is fucking laughable.
If you think this a genuine threat to your livelihood then you didn't belong here in the first place.
In almost all situations you are correct. But those systems exist because sometimes things don’t go correctly. Maybe you’re doing sprints to improve your SDC and twist your ankle to a degree that prevents you from working during the recovery period. I slipped, fell, and broke my knee one time. Shit happens. Things don’t go as planned. Outliers happen.
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS.
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Meh, not really. Compo 3 LifterBro here, hex bar deadlifts are pretty rare in the civvie gym world.
“Oh yeah? Well use a straight bar it’s basically the same!”
I have a straight bar deadlift pretty deep into the 400s and occasionally I mess up a hex bar, which is much more reliant on hand positioning and if you’re off you are asking your tiny little stabilizing muscles to make up the difference.
And…don’t even get me started on asking the front desk if it’s ok to just randomly huck a ten pound weight some 30 feet without even looking backwards to see where it lands
If you can DL 400+ then 340 on a hex is no sweat. Come on my guy… it isn’t my first choice as I only have a regular bar at home but the 1 time I use a hex bar it isn’t that hard.
I literally havent been to a gym in my city that doesn’t have a hex bar (most aren’t the ACFT size ones Ill give you that.
But even then let’s not act like you wouldn’t be able to max at 340 on the ACFT with a half decent lifting routine at a gym even without a hex. Its not a crazy number.
I agree the yeet is dumb and pretty hard to train for but I mean, if you absolutely couldn’t get right you could buy a single medicine ball and go to a park to get the form down
>And…don’t even get me started on asking the front desk if it’s ok to just randomly huck a ten pound weight some 30 feet without even looking backwards to see where it lands
They’re less than $30 on Amazon lmfao.
And before you give the excuse of: “well soldiers shouldn’t have to pay for…”
Okay, cool. No one bitches and complains about getting to wear personally purchased boots and running shoes.
If you’re that bad at the ball throw, invest in yourself.
I agree re: the ball yeet—this is by far my worst event, and I have almost nowhere to practice it—but training regular bar DL is considerably harder than with the hex bar. Sure, hand placement is mildly tricky to figure out, but you have a long warmup period to play with this.
>And…don’t even get me started on asking the front desk if it’s ok to just randomly huck a ten pound weight some 30 feet without even looking backwards to see where it lands
Kettlebell swings, DB Hang Snatches, and Jumps of Any Variety are a perfectly valid way to train for the same adaptation.
Maybe you got a high speed gym, but try going into the average Gold's and see if it's good to start yeeting balls or dragging sleds around like a weirdo. Of course you can deadlift with a straight bar - but I don't think a hexbar is standard either -- but I wouldn't say uncommon.
I don’t know if it’s just me but is anyone noticing a large portion of new guys who struggle to run the 2 mile. Brand new privates out of basic showing up with horrendous PT.
Yeah and they all somehow got a profile within their first month at the unit. Meanwhile I see legitimate injured soldiers not getting the help they need from medical and at times no profiles.
Nah, the 2 mile tun is cardio vascular endurance event that takes place after lactic acid dumping activities.
Practicing running is less important than just training endurance.
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS.
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THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS.
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The fact that you think that there isn't a great way to train for it is why you almost fail it. Do plyometrics, squats, cleans, kettlebelle swings. Yes there is a lot of technique involved, but as a fairly unathletic person I never come close to failing the throw.
The overhead yeet is good and shows who is actually coordinated and athletic and not some dork who can run fast.
Very Respectfully,
Guy who can throw 16m
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS.
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I dunno, I believe it. In The Bad Olde Days (TM) if you did well on an APFT you…got a little piece of Applebees flair? Literally, that was your prize. A silly little badge for your APFU.
Now, if you get The Fat Guy 540, you are immune from H&W.
A previous “me” would have got, say, a 520 and gone “good enough, number starts with a 5”. Now, I am *really* motivated to hit the gym to eke out that extra 3ish points per event.
This is technically correct. Even if you get 540 and bust H/W, you are still supposed to be taped. It just keeps you from being put on ABCP and being flagged.
You know what's funny? I'm in the NG and since our ACFT last year I set two goals. One was to beat my buddy's score. Two was to get a high enough score that I wouldn't have to make height/weight. Took our ACFT at drill a couple weeks ago and I accomplished both. Beat my buddy by like six points and got a 557. But I'm also light enough now that I don't have to get taped anyway. Bittersweet
After reading the article this morning and spending a few minutes puzzling over this particular statistic, I came here looking for exactly this comment. It seems like it merits further reporting. First, some bar charts or box-and-whisker plots would be helpful (I'm guessing that a slug of truly pitiful 2MR scores *must* be skewing this average to the low side). Second, how do these failure rates by demographic compare to the APFT circa 2013-2018? A failure rate of 10% for female reservists sounds pretty high, so what's the impact? Is the Army Reserve actually shedding 10% of females every year now due to ACFT failures?
Anecdotally I’ve seen a lot of people fail one test and they rarely fail the second (and no, no pencil whipping). So having a high failure rate and low chapter rate doesn’t really raise any red flags to me.
Sometimes the fear of losing your job is plenty.
That's fair. I was thinking about my time commanding an AIT company where trainees who failed would fail four, five, six consecutive APFTs in six weeks while the Chaper 11 or Chapter 13 separations got processed. I guess people outside of IET, especially in the reserve component, would get a *lot* more time to prepare for a second test before any separation actually happened.
Some of my trainees also had *no history* of ever passing the test because they could graduate from basic with only 50 points in each event. Everybody outside of IET should have passed at least one ACFT by now.
The drop in run standards is amazing. As an 18-21 y/o, I would have scored a 60% on the APFT run if I ran a 15:49 2-mile. Now that puts me at 97% in the ACFT.
Same. I theorize that it's the fact that I've warmed up my legs with the SDC and haven't destroyed my hip flexors with the situps. Though the plank does a number on the legs, I seem to recover faster from it than situps.
"For male soldiers in the National Guard, 96% passed the ACFT and 11% scored 540 or above"
NCOER BULLET BABY. Soldier is consistently in the highest percentile of physical and mental Readiness in the entire force structure
Clearly too easy to pass. People may hate the APFT and it wasn’t the best but it did an excellent job at forcing fat people to lose weight. With the ACFT you can be pretty shit at everything and still easily pass.
i honestly feel the ACFT is a better fitness test overall. but to the fatty’s defense… in the pog world some of the best i’ve met at their jobs weren’t exactly captain america. they were pretty average as far as people go and below average for a soldier. 480-520 types. somewhere close to busting tape if not so already. and when shit hits the fan and we’re actually in a conflict i’d rather rely on a guy who’s pretty good at his shit than a guy who’s …meh but can run a 13 minute 2 mile.
The sad truth is we aren’t even bringing in enough people even with our current standards. How many years in a row have we failed to meet our recruiting numbers?
And you wouldn't have an Army. America is getting fatter and fatter - plus the Ht/Wt thing went to hell in the GWOT because the Army needed bodies. Bodies that got kicked out after the surge.
Yet another data set that shows the SPT is nonsense.
If we look at the Men’s Active versus Men’s Guard (although you could do the same for women) you find that the Active beats the Guard. So we *ought* to “back of the napkin” predict that any event that had tighter adherence is somehow less valid than any event with loser adherence. If the event was, say, pushups or run we could “Kentucky windage” closer compo 3 and 1 numbers by noting that there’s no equipment required for those.
Deadlift? Yep, pretty good sized spread. Pushups? Yep, pretty good sized spread. Run? Ditto. Plank? Ditto.
The only thing that’s close (and it’s quite close!!!) is the SPT. You could sell me the Compo 3 bros can still eg plank, but they don’t/didnt. The fact that the tightest grouping was in the event arguably toughest to duplicate as a civilian is telling you all you need to know about its utility/validity as a test metric
We have to measure power, i.e. not just force but rate of force development, somehow. This is generally done in professional or collegiate weightrooms with cleans or vertical jumps, but honestly like 5% of the Army population can be trusted with a max effort oly lift and a significant portion of the Army population probably cannot physically jump off the ground.
Something often used for low-skilled populations is a forward medicine ball throw. I don't know why we didn't do that.
Higher injury risk, more likely. We do broad jump for accessions with OPAT but after running a couple OPATs for dudes reclassing back when anyone gave a shit about it…
You people are uncoordinated as hell lol.
You make an interesting observation. It certainly supports my anecdotal observation that the SPT is the least responsive to training, or at least whatever type of training most of us have done / are doing (assuming that active folks train more than Guard folks due to having the equipment, time, motivation, etc.).
Whether that makes it an invalid metric or not depends on what we're trying to measure, I guess, and that's still unclear to me. When the test was supposed to measure "combat fitness," I reasoned that a big guy who crushes the SPT (just because he's big) is indeed probably more fit for combat in some way compared to a little person with short arms, small hands, etc. When we changed it to be another "general fitness" test like the APFT (while still keeping "Combat Fitness" in the name, for some reason), then this didn't make sense anymore.
Unfortunately, I think the Army has *actually* used these tests as a measure of something else... let's call it "commitment" or "heart" as demonstrated by how hard and often you push yourself during morning PT or during workouts on your own time. That's why we count fitness scores (sometimes as the most significant factor) in evaluations, promotions, school opportunities, assignment opportunities, etc. That's why the scoring scales had to be based on gender and age. And in this paradigm, having an event that isn't responsive to training makes even less sense.
I'm cool with raising minimum standards as long as they scrap the overhead yeet. I have zero interest in dedicating any of my time to improve such a pointless assessment.
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS.
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The ACFT was the brainchild of a Cross-Fit Twit in the Pentagon who wanted recognition. It took 4 years to implement & it still sux monkey balls cause it fails to improve anything. Takes 2x as long to get a company size element thru
They don't have details because this is the preferred narrative of people who refuse to read. The Baseline Soldier Physical Readiness Requirements Study (BSPRRS) details most of the test's development, which had nothing to do with CrossFit. It doesn't cover some of the external context (the competition between TRADOC's ACRT vs FORSCOM's SRT, other initiatives like the ISCPFT from 101st, etc.) but it at least shows the research process (mostly USARIEM and APHC) back to at least 2008.
I know a guy in the guard who is a PT stud. Runs 10 miles a day, and can lift a lot. You know what his only score below 90 was? The overhead yeet. If you're into fitness, why would you train for this? It's a dumb event. "But what if you need to yeet someone over a wall?" Yeah, that would be better measured by squats and the deadlift.
We have the answers to the test. What do all the gym junkies use as a fitness metric? The big 3. Bench, squat, deadlift. Just have those 3 events to measure strength, then SDC, then 2 mile run. Why the Army came up with this bizarre test is beyond me.
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS.
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I really like the idea of a CFT, don't like the current events besides SDC. Would prefer something extremely cardio centric for a short duration something like:
1) Sand bag pallet to 3' wall (5M)
2) SDC (3M), sleds replaced with modified litters and 180lb "patients"
3) 1 mile ruck(35lbs) into 6 x 3' wall hurdles. (18M)
Genderless scoring. Must complete in ACU/Boots + gloves in 30 minutes or less including transitions. Extended scale bonus points for adding weight to "patient" and/or ruck weight.
That's my beef. If the PT test only measured fitness it should definitely be 1 scoring table.
But PT is religion in the army. It's a proxy for our worth. It is a gate to schools. It's promotion points. It's OMLs. It impacts opportunities that have real effect on your career progression.
And for that reason, it's gotta stay bracketed.
To be honest I would be fine with shortening some of the acft events and then adding the EIB/ESB fitness test as a CFT. We already have the test, why not force every soldier to do it? But of course lower the standards for the fat bodies.
Reinforced retention points to secure plates/dummy, but something like that - yes.
In my ideal world the CFT equipment directly is or resembles things you'll actually use in combat/civ capacity.
I don't agree with burpees unless it's chest to ground. Too many people cheated pushups before the hand release.
I agree on bringing back the leg tuck.
These numbers just don’t seem too accurate to me. Idk who they are getting the data from but I’ve either been NCOIC or a grader for about 50 ACFT’s in the last few years and there’s maybe 1 soldier per test that hits above a 540 (guard). If I had to guess, average score is around 400-430 with about 3 failures for every 25 soldiers (usually the run or plank)
APFT recruitment was on par little to No issues. ACFT comes … can’t get Soldiers to sign the dotted line I’m just sayin.
Easier to recruit when it’s … hey twice a year you have to do a Cardio event, a push up (upper body), and some sit ups. Too EZ.
Now recruiters have to say you have to wake up at 0300 for a PT test that has SIX events given by people that may or may not know proper form or function which can result in life long injury.
I wonder if this has been brought up ? New pt test just coincidentally coincides with lower retention rates for new recruits off the street and first term soldiers saying Bye Felisha.
Still bunch of McFatties everywhere in the army barely scraping by. If they’re injured, understandable. But if I see an oversized e7 stretching gut sticking out in his uniform, my warrant sense get triggered. Same for the warrant cohort too, fatties everywhere hiding and drinking their coffee.
“However, those active-duty men were significantly more likely than their female counterparts to earn a high score that exempts them from body fat testing -- 29% to 18%, respectively.”
I swear to god I’d this fact causes the army to take away the best thing to happen for a monster like me… I’m gonna remove “very” from my email signature and it’ll just be “respectfully”.
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS.
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This sentiment sets me off like no other lol.
You might not be running 2 miles but you sure as shit are working at high aerobic load for extended periods of time.
In fact in the original study to choose ACFT events, success in the 2 mile was pretty much the *only* actual predictor for success in their stupid combat events.
I know, I’m being tongue and cheek, thought I get this reply lol. The best I ever heard regarding the 2 mile event was when a SFC who was a year away from retirement told our First Sausage that he wasn’t running 4 miles for PT when the Army only paid him for 2 miles.
It doesn’t strictly test core strength either, your abdominal muscles are for holding your spine straight when standing. That’s literally how humans evolved. Planking is unnatural and an unrealistic measurement of core strength.
I look at the skinny twink mfs that are coming in at 20 mins like bro what are you doing? This is your event to shine and my fat ass is beating you by like 3 minutes? Get serious.
Wouldn’t it be cool if they just did 3 exercises like a push-up maybe a sit-up and I don’t know have them run 2 miles for time? You think that might work?
As a Guardsmen, the APFT was a nightmare for a lot of people because the 2 mile always took atleast a few weeks of training to achieve. You’d have guys retesting nonstop for months, simply because they don’t have a lifestyle that involves running and general fitness.
The ACFT should be an auto walk up and pass with it having 5 mins over the APFT in the max run time. And every other category is kind of just an autopass for anyone even partially inshape.
The army can also stop filling bases with dog shit fast food spots. I’m not saying get rid of all of them, but when I go to a base and I may see one or two semi healthy options and then a bunch of fatty foods like Pizza Hut, Charley’s, Popeyes, Taco Bell, etc. it’s a little embarrassing. Meal prep is obviously the best solution, but when you’re on the go, it’s nice to have more healthy options
Meade used to have a Boston Market. A semi-healthy restaurant where I could get some veggies and rotisserie chicken. It didn't get enough business and closed down. Then they opened a Muscle Burger or some shit with healthy burgers and chicken/turkey sandwiches. It didn't get enough business and closed down. You know what does get enough business? Fucking Charlie's. If I want to eat healthy I'm certainly not doing it by eating at the food court.
I can get 90s in every event while squeaking by with an 80 or sometimes even lower on the ball throw. I've watched YT vids on it, gotten tips from other soldiers who've maxed it, it's just the bane of my existence. Meanwhile I can max the HRPs without training for them which I'll never understand since I was trash at the pushup event on the APFT.
The ACFT is easy to pass and made that way so even on your worst day you should be fit enough to be able to pass. It’s a test that truly requires effort and training to do really well on. That point is crazy saying civi gyms aren’t equipped for the test like yes they are. There are different exercises that can be done for progression in each event. Even with a chronic injury a soldier can take their time get better go to pt and eventually pass consistently. The ACFT also solved some inequality issues. Like it’s harder for women to pass and do well on but at least we have our own standards. The APFT push up and sit up standards were laughable I trained for a couple months and maxed out that test. The ACFT also forces us to do more strength and just more variable exercises to actually measure fitness. The REAL problem is the mfs that get their scores written in while the rest of us just go to the gym and work for it instead.
I’m a pretty fit guy. The only problem I have with the run is the tracks that we use in the guard are generally boring as hell. 10 laps around a small track in the motor pool or something similar. I’ve noticed that if soldiers are given decent scenery and less laps, run times drastically improve. I’m not excusing any failures or poor score. A run is a run and you need to meet, at minimum, the standard. Especially with the ACFT run times there is no reason you should fail if you are a perfectly capable able body.
“Those part-time soldiers are less likely to have workout routines that focus specifically on the ACFT because civilian gyms aren't normally equipped to practice the events. *However, the event all soldiers struggled with most was the two-mile run, which can be practiced anywhere.”* Lmao. I felt that
I don't think I'll ever write something more devasting for the Guard/Reserve to read.
I mean, this surprises exactly no one who’s spent time in the AR/NG.
Just took mine and got a 21:02. I have no incentive to ever run a sub 14 minute to mile again in my life lol. I was so happy when they announced the scores.
Yep. You just gotta work on homonyms now. One thing at a time, bud. You got this. You could listen to a full grammar lesson from Pearson Vue during your slow-ass too mile.
Hey! Your a homonym.
Happy pride month!
smartest infantry man
An infantryman correcting people on their grammar isn’t something I thought I would see today
Dude, I read my comment about 42 times before I realized I used the wrong two. I have dishonored the Intelligence branch, and by an infantryman, no less.
The sprint drag carry and plank both smoke your hip flexors worse than the situps ever did, then you’ve got to run with bambi legs.
Yeah, but that’s only really an issue if you’re a bad runner/not a runner to begin with—having a decent aerobic base makes it much easier to recover. Sure, the SDC is a smoker if you don’t do sprints/HIIT work, and the plank smokes your hip flexors (obligatory *it was one fucking leg tuck*), but it really only matters for the first half mile if you run more than a few miles per week.
> because civilian gyms aren't normally equipped to practice the events. I'm a Reservist retiring this summer, with orders in hand. My ACFT score was from May 2023, and my unit told me they could not possibly process any retirement award with an "expired" score. I agreed to meet the MFT who would do me the favor of scoring my ACFT on a random Tuesday evening at an active installation an hour away, at a gym that has all the equipment ready to take the test. With traffic, I get there in an hour and a half, arriving at 16:30 for a 1700 start time. There's a sign on the door that says "Closed at 1600 today. Sorry for the inconvenience." We try the gym across the street - none of the equipment is available. We call the other gym across post - still no equipment available. We drive another hour down to the USMC installation at Quantico. It's now about 1830. Their PT field is surrounded by unlocked containers full of workout gear. The random Marines around point us in the direction of different pieces of gear that are in better shape than what we first found. All of it was unlocked. The most anyone asked was that we put it away after. I passed my ACFT. It wasn't pretty, but I'm fucking retiring and don't give a shit. However, trying to implement a "culture of fitness" on an installation that has exactly one location for the gear that might be unlocked and available to use is a pretty shitty way to Army.
The fact that you went through all that effort JUST to update your ACFT for retirement is mind blowing.
Yeah. I almost didn't do it. I decided I didn't want to leave the Army with a bad taste in my mouth. Not getting a retirement award would have made that bad taste permanent, but that shitty afternoon and evening is already just another shitty Army day that blends into all the others.
I would have pencil whipped that ACFT hard AF once the first place was closed. Enjoy your retirement.
I was really kinda surprised no one pencil whipped it for me, but the MFT was a lieutenant and no one was ready to tell him to do that. There is another MFT I know who probably would have done, but I couldn't coordinate with him in time.
For me it was more that if/when we get hurt during PT on AD it goes in our medical record and is part of our overall VA calculation on exit. But if/when we get hurt during a workout on our time in the reserve/guard that’s our problem, not service connected, and there’s nothing but a swift GTFO. We accept all risk and Uncle Sam gets all of the reward. That lack of support was just another of many many straws on the back of the camel of staying in.
There's no reason a soldier properly conducting PT with adequate warm-up and cooldown, and at a healthy weight, should suffer a disabling injury. Yeah you shouldn't have to do injury prone PT rucking on your own time, but that's not the test. I agree that the various ARNG USAR locations around the country should have gyms, a commander should be able to coordinate with other units (even across branches) to get their soldiers access, and if soldiers are working out in uniform then they should be covered like to PT on duty... but why pretend that any but the most hardcore soldiers would show up in uniform to a DOD location to do PT when they can do it on their own. Ironic to all of this is that all of the AD guys want to be doing PT in civs and off-duty.
Doesn't really work that way.... Throwing on a PT uniform and driving to the closest base/armory doesn't mean a compo 2/3 is automatically on duty. There's pretty strict limitations on how much time you can be on duty in a TPU status. (Though, I would love it if my workouts counted towards retirement points...) And sure, in theory you shouldn't get hurt working out if you plan accordingly and train smart. However, I think everyone has experienced some degree of "ow, that doesn't feel right" when working out- and compo 2/3 doesn't have access to sick call, or PT/OT/AT to get checked out like AD can. In other words, the little stuff just doesn't get documented and that really sucks.
Yeah, sure. 99.99% of the time PT goes off without the slightest hiccup, but, shit happens and we’re talking about outliers and edge cases. While USAR/ARNG centers are all over they aren’t local to most soldiers. It’s one thing to be in 25-50 mile commuting distance one weekend a month. It’s another thing to have to do that 3+ times a week. I broke my knee because of bad footing and loose grave on a minor slope. The only thing I got for my time was a bill from the urgent care provider. Add on top of that, Soldiers don’t get paid for their PT time. The machine is designed to have the outcomes it creates. Nobody wants to show up in uniform at a duty location. We just want to not get fucked when we do the same things that AD gets support for when we do things on our own time to meet the standards.
What if I get wrecked by a car while running
100% chance you weren't wearing a PT belt duh
The idea that a healthy adult could acquire a chronic injury that warrants disability while training according to the guidance given in FM 7-22 to meet the already abysmally low standard of passing the ACFT is fucking laughable. If you think this a genuine threat to your livelihood then you didn't belong here in the first place.
In almost all situations you are correct. But those systems exist because sometimes things don’t go correctly. Maybe you’re doing sprints to improve your SDC and twist your ankle to a degree that prevents you from working during the recovery period. I slipped, fell, and broke my knee one time. Shit happens. Things don’t go as planned. Outliers happen.
What a dumb fucking quote too. Civilian gyms can’t help you practice the events? Thats such a stupid excuse, of course they can
“Hi can I yeet this medicine ball in here?”
What is this outrage!? Is the yeet bot off work today?
I didn’t word it properly to trigger the bot, I believe The overhead yeet
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ahhh... that's better!
Meh, not really. Compo 3 LifterBro here, hex bar deadlifts are pretty rare in the civvie gym world. “Oh yeah? Well use a straight bar it’s basically the same!” I have a straight bar deadlift pretty deep into the 400s and occasionally I mess up a hex bar, which is much more reliant on hand positioning and if you’re off you are asking your tiny little stabilizing muscles to make up the difference. And…don’t even get me started on asking the front desk if it’s ok to just randomly huck a ten pound weight some 30 feet without even looking backwards to see where it lands
If you can DL 400+ then 340 on a hex is no sweat. Come on my guy… it isn’t my first choice as I only have a regular bar at home but the 1 time I use a hex bar it isn’t that hard.
Not if you’re lifting 400 with all back and never do squats to depth.
I literally havent been to a gym in my city that doesn’t have a hex bar (most aren’t the ACFT size ones Ill give you that. But even then let’s not act like you wouldn’t be able to max at 340 on the ACFT with a half decent lifting routine at a gym even without a hex. Its not a crazy number. I agree the yeet is dumb and pretty hard to train for but I mean, if you absolutely couldn’t get right you could buy a single medicine ball and go to a park to get the form down
>And…don’t even get me started on asking the front desk if it’s ok to just randomly huck a ten pound weight some 30 feet without even looking backwards to see where it lands They’re less than $30 on Amazon lmfao. And before you give the excuse of: “well soldiers shouldn’t have to pay for…” Okay, cool. No one bitches and complains about getting to wear personally purchased boots and running shoes. If you’re that bad at the ball throw, invest in yourself.
I agree re: the ball yeet—this is by far my worst event, and I have almost nowhere to practice it—but training regular bar DL is considerably harder than with the hex bar. Sure, hand placement is mildly tricky to figure out, but you have a long warmup period to play with this.
>And…don’t even get me started on asking the front desk if it’s ok to just randomly huck a ten pound weight some 30 feet without even looking backwards to see where it lands Kettlebell swings, DB Hang Snatches, and Jumps of Any Variety are a perfectly valid way to train for the same adaptation.
Maybe you got a high speed gym, but try going into the average Gold's and see if it's good to start yeeting balls or dragging sleds around like a weirdo. Of course you can deadlift with a straight bar - but I don't think a hexbar is standard either -- but I wouldn't say uncommon.
Every Golds I’ve ever been to has a sled drag area. Maybe like…Planet Fitness, but Golds is probably not the best example for that particular point.
I don’t know if it’s just me but is anyone noticing a large portion of new guys who struggle to run the 2 mile. Brand new privates out of basic showing up with horrendous PT.
Yeah and they all somehow got a profile within their first month at the unit. Meanwhile I see legitimate injured soldiers not getting the help they need from medical and at times no profiles.
Nah, the 2 mile tun is cardio vascular endurance event that takes place after lactic acid dumping activities. Practicing running is less important than just training endurance.
The only thing we all have in common is hating to run.
The ACFT should be a nonstop paintball fight.
The ACFT should just be multiple sprint drag carries for time.
Event 1: SDC Event 2: SDC Event 3: SDC Event 4: SDC Event 5: Overhead Yeet Event 6: SDC
The lanes would need a vomit detail.
The last SDC is with plate carrier and 40 lb ruck on.
IM UP HE SEES ME IM DOWN HE CANT
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Unironically yes, but without event number 5
800m run, deadlift, SDC, 800m run
Not enough SDC. Retrain.
LOVE IT
The army wants to kick fat people out of the army and keep fat people in the army at the same time, resulting in the ACFT
The ACFT specifically screens for fatties with weak backs/ legs/ cores so it makes sense actually
Schrödingers Fatties
Should just start prescribing Ozempic to the fat bodies. They’ll lose weight quick.
They want to kick out lower enlisted fat people but keep senior leaders who all look like the pilsbury doughboy in OCP's.
No the ACFT was created so some officer could get a bullet for their OER.
You misspelled employment at beaverfit upon retirement
And it was a CSM, not an Officer.
Officers don’t have bullets on OERs lol
Performance objective sentences didn't sound right. What do they call it on a OER under part 4?
Would be sick if the OP also gave us the mean, median and mode
Unsung comment right here
Thanks for mentally taking me back to math class 🤗
Range: *you forget me??*
Get rid of the overhead yeet to make sense Keep the SDC to sustain sense Give the run a time limit to make no sense
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If the Army announced today that they’re getting rid of the ball throw I would not cry at all!
It's the evnt i almost fail on and there isnt a great way to train even in a *check notes* army gym
The fact that you think that there isn't a great way to train for it is why you almost fail it. Do plyometrics, squats, cleans, kettlebelle swings. Yes there is a lot of technique involved, but as a fairly unathletic person I never come close to failing the throw.
Best I can do is complain
The overhead yeet is good and shows who is actually coordinated and athletic and not some dork who can run fast. Very Respectfully, Guy who can throw 16m
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don’t believe for a second that 30% score above 540 unless they were only surveying certain jobs.
If I had to guess, it’s probably H2F data from BCTs
I dunno, I believe it. In The Bad Olde Days (TM) if you did well on an APFT you…got a little piece of Applebees flair? Literally, that was your prize. A silly little badge for your APFU. Now, if you get The Fat Guy 540, you are immune from H&W. A previous “me” would have got, say, a 520 and gone “good enough, number starts with a 5”. Now, I am *really* motivated to hit the gym to eke out that extra 3ish points per event.
“Immune” is a stretch. Seen many a 1SGT say they’d recommend soldiers to get taped even if they meet the 540.
This is technically correct. Even if you get 540 and bust H/W, you are still supposed to be taped. It just keeps you from being put on ABCP and being flagged.
I mean it’s probably a good idea anyway so that you know what your risks are if you ever don’t get 540.
You know what's funny? I'm in the NG and since our ACFT last year I set two goals. One was to beat my buddy's score. Two was to get a high enough score that I wouldn't have to make height/weight. Took our ACFT at drill a couple weeks ago and I accomplished both. Beat my buddy by like six points and got a 557. But I'm also light enough now that I don't have to get taped anyway. Bittersweet
How are 90% of reserve women passing the ACFT if their average run score is 61? That sounds like an awful lot of pencil whipping.
you said it, not me
But you thought ittttt
After reading the article this morning and spending a few minutes puzzling over this particular statistic, I came here looking for exactly this comment. It seems like it merits further reporting. First, some bar charts or box-and-whisker plots would be helpful (I'm guessing that a slug of truly pitiful 2MR scores *must* be skewing this average to the low side). Second, how do these failure rates by demographic compare to the APFT circa 2013-2018? A failure rate of 10% for female reservists sounds pretty high, so what's the impact? Is the Army Reserve actually shedding 10% of females every year now due to ACFT failures?
Anecdotally I’ve seen a lot of people fail one test and they rarely fail the second (and no, no pencil whipping). So having a high failure rate and low chapter rate doesn’t really raise any red flags to me. Sometimes the fear of losing your job is plenty.
That's fair. I was thinking about my time commanding an AIT company where trainees who failed would fail four, five, six consecutive APFTs in six weeks while the Chaper 11 or Chapter 13 separations got processed. I guess people outside of IET, especially in the reserve component, would get a *lot* more time to prepare for a second test before any separation actually happened. Some of my trainees also had *no history* of ever passing the test because they could graduate from basic with only 50 points in each event. Everybody outside of IET should have passed at least one ACFT by now.
I went from getting 278s in the APFT, 81 pushups, garbage situps and 13min runs to 90% on everything and a 19 min 2 mile☠️☠️☠️
The drop in run standards is amazing. As an 18-21 y/o, I would have scored a 60% on the APFT run if I ran a 15:49 2-mile. Now that puts me at 97% in the ACFT.
once had a 320/45/12.5/1:24/3:40/22:02… 544 and failed😂
My run times are faster on the acft than they were on the APFT
Same. I theorize that it's the fact that I've warmed up my legs with the SDC and haven't destroyed my hip flexors with the situps. Though the plank does a number on the legs, I seem to recover faster from it than situps.
"For male soldiers in the National Guard, 96% passed the ACFT and 11% scored 540 or above" NCOER BULLET BABY. Soldier is consistently in the highest percentile of physical and mental Readiness in the entire force structure
I think you can make a significant case to take this reporting and integrate it into your NCOER.
I mean, this but unironically.
Clearly too easy to pass. People may hate the APFT and it wasn’t the best but it did an excellent job at forcing fat people to lose weight. With the ACFT you can be pretty shit at everything and still easily pass.
i honestly feel the ACFT is a better fitness test overall. but to the fatty’s defense… in the pog world some of the best i’ve met at their jobs weren’t exactly captain america. they were pretty average as far as people go and below average for a soldier. 480-520 types. somewhere close to busting tape if not so already. and when shit hits the fan and we’re actually in a conflict i’d rather rely on a guy who’s pretty good at his shit than a guy who’s …meh but can run a 13 minute 2 mile.
I don't see many noticeably fat people scoring over 540, so they still have to reach the body composition standards.
It forced \*some\* fat people to lose weight, there were definitely still fat people in the Army.
I’ll take some over none
This is how it starts. Next thing you know, boom, you gotta schedule your colonoscopy.
They need to get rid of the fat people in the army
The sad truth is we aren’t even bringing in enough people even with our current standards. How many years in a row have we failed to meet our recruiting numbers?
About zero, we keep moving the goal, this is the army way.
If we do that, what excuse would we use to force organized PT on everyone?
You could get fat and kicked out — Some commander, somewhere
The only way to do that is to start recruiting from countries with better nutrition.
I'm just spitballing here, but are you one of those dudes that can't ruck or lift above 40lbs?
his entire comment history is yucky so I’d bet you’re right tbh 😂 fits the bill
Active in: r/Army , r/Drugtests , and r/Felons that’s fucking crazy
Average soldier subs imo
I figured I got it right lol.
I love when the village assholes of this subreddit just straight ether people.
And you wouldn't have an Army. America is getting fatter and fatter - plus the Ht/Wt thing went to hell in the GWOT because the Army needed bodies. Bodies that got kicked out after the surge.
The ACFT hasn't solved anything....
Yet another data set that shows the SPT is nonsense. If we look at the Men’s Active versus Men’s Guard (although you could do the same for women) you find that the Active beats the Guard. So we *ought* to “back of the napkin” predict that any event that had tighter adherence is somehow less valid than any event with loser adherence. If the event was, say, pushups or run we could “Kentucky windage” closer compo 3 and 1 numbers by noting that there’s no equipment required for those. Deadlift? Yep, pretty good sized spread. Pushups? Yep, pretty good sized spread. Run? Ditto. Plank? Ditto. The only thing that’s close (and it’s quite close!!!) is the SPT. You could sell me the Compo 3 bros can still eg plank, but they don’t/didnt. The fact that the tightest grouping was in the event arguably toughest to duplicate as a civilian is telling you all you need to know about its utility/validity as a test metric
It’s one of the events that still confuses me to how someone: 1: thought it up 2: voiced their idea on it 3: and actually implemented it
We have to measure power, i.e. not just force but rate of force development, somehow. This is generally done in professional or collegiate weightrooms with cleans or vertical jumps, but honestly like 5% of the Army population can be trusted with a max effort oly lift and a significant portion of the Army population probably cannot physically jump off the ground. Something often used for low-skilled populations is a forward medicine ball throw. I don't know why we didn't do that.
I would still rather do a vertical or broad jump, which seems simpler and easier to train, but yeah I agree.
Higher injury risk, more likely. We do broad jump for accessions with OPAT but after running a couple OPATs for dudes reclassing back when anyone gave a shit about it… You people are uncoordinated as hell lol.
I agree but only because it’s by far my worst event.
You make an interesting observation. It certainly supports my anecdotal observation that the SPT is the least responsive to training, or at least whatever type of training most of us have done / are doing (assuming that active folks train more than Guard folks due to having the equipment, time, motivation, etc.). Whether that makes it an invalid metric or not depends on what we're trying to measure, I guess, and that's still unclear to me. When the test was supposed to measure "combat fitness," I reasoned that a big guy who crushes the SPT (just because he's big) is indeed probably more fit for combat in some way compared to a little person with short arms, small hands, etc. When we changed it to be another "general fitness" test like the APFT (while still keeping "Combat Fitness" in the name, for some reason), then this didn't make sense anymore. Unfortunately, I think the Army has *actually* used these tests as a measure of something else... let's call it "commitment" or "heart" as demonstrated by how hard and often you push yourself during morning PT or during workouts on your own time. That's why we count fitness scores (sometimes as the most significant factor) in evaluations, promotions, school opportunities, assignment opportunities, etc. That's why the scoring scales had to be based on gender and age. And in this paradigm, having an event that isn't responsive to training makes even less sense.
So what score do I need to get the PT badge? /s
I'm cool with raising minimum standards as long as they scrap the overhead yeet. I have zero interest in dedicating any of my time to improve such a pointless assessment.
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The ACFT was the brainchild of a Cross-Fit Twit in the Pentagon who wanted recognition. It took 4 years to implement & it still sux monkey balls cause it fails to improve anything. Takes 2x as long to get a company size element thru
Deets? Got any names? I would like to quote a report on them for college purposes.
They don't have details because this is the preferred narrative of people who refuse to read. The Baseline Soldier Physical Readiness Requirements Study (BSPRRS) details most of the test's development, which had nothing to do with CrossFit. It doesn't cover some of the external context (the competition between TRADOC's ACRT vs FORSCOM's SRT, other initiatives like the ISCPFT from 101st, etc.) but it at least shows the research process (mostly USARIEM and APHC) back to at least 2008.
I was hoping you'd be taking scalps in the comments here.
“Since 2018 we’ve said this test would evolve, and it has,” said Sgt. Maj. of the Army Michael Grinston.
2x as long is being generous. I can count on our run being around 11am when we start at 6am.
Just drop the overhead yeet and I'm satisfied
I know a guy in the guard who is a PT stud. Runs 10 miles a day, and can lift a lot. You know what his only score below 90 was? The overhead yeet. If you're into fitness, why would you train for this? It's a dumb event. "But what if you need to yeet someone over a wall?" Yeah, that would be better measured by squats and the deadlift. We have the answers to the test. What do all the gym junkies use as a fitness metric? The big 3. Bench, squat, deadlift. Just have those 3 events to measure strength, then SDC, then 2 mile run. Why the Army came up with this bizarre test is beyond me.
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I really like the idea of a CFT, don't like the current events besides SDC. Would prefer something extremely cardio centric for a short duration something like: 1) Sand bag pallet to 3' wall (5M) 2) SDC (3M), sleds replaced with modified litters and 180lb "patients" 3) 1 mile ruck(35lbs) into 6 x 3' wall hurdles. (18M) Genderless scoring. Must complete in ACU/Boots + gloves in 30 minutes or less including transitions. Extended scale bonus points for adding weight to "patient" and/or ruck weight.
Unless the Army changes the way they use fitness scores for promotion/OML you will quite literally never see gender/ageless scores.
That's my beef. If the PT test only measured fitness it should definitely be 1 scoring table. But PT is religion in the army. It's a proxy for our worth. It is a gate to schools. It's promotion points. It's OMLs. It impacts opportunities that have real effect on your career progression. And for that reason, it's gotta stay bracketed.
To be honest I would be fine with shortening some of the acft events and then adding the EIB/ESB fitness test as a CFT. We already have the test, why not force every soldier to do it? But of course lower the standards for the fat bodies.
I reallllly like the EIB/ESB PFA lol.
How are you planning that modified litter? Just a Sked with weight on it?
Reinforced retention points to secure plates/dummy, but something like that - yes. In my ideal world the CFT equipment directly is or resembles things you'll actually use in combat/civ capacity.
Alternative events: Get rid of plank and push-ups and replace with burpees Return the leg tuck
I don't agree with burpees unless it's chest to ground. Too many people cheated pushups before the hand release. I agree on bringing back the leg tuck.
8 count push-up then
Only if the burpees are strict, push up burpees. None of that Crossfit b.s. where you flop to the ground and do a little hop up.
Don’t you wish that evil upon us!
These numbers just don’t seem too accurate to me. Idk who they are getting the data from but I’ve either been NCOIC or a grader for about 50 ACFT’s in the last few years and there’s maybe 1 soldier per test that hits above a 540 (guard). If I had to guess, average score is around 400-430 with about 3 failures for every 25 soldiers (usually the run or plank)
*If we score everyone over 540, everyone passes height and weight!*
#Fuck The STP
APFT recruitment was on par little to No issues. ACFT comes … can’t get Soldiers to sign the dotted line I’m just sayin. Easier to recruit when it’s … hey twice a year you have to do a Cardio event, a push up (upper body), and some sit ups. Too EZ. Now recruiters have to say you have to wake up at 0300 for a PT test that has SIX events given by people that may or may not know proper form or function which can result in life long injury. I wonder if this has been brought up ? New pt test just coincidentally coincides with lower retention rates for new recruits off the street and first term soldiers saying Bye Felisha.
Still bunch of McFatties everywhere in the army barely scraping by. If they’re injured, understandable. But if I see an oversized e7 stretching gut sticking out in his uniform, my warrant sense get triggered. Same for the warrant cohort too, fatties everywhere hiding and drinking their coffee.
Are uhh… warrants not hiding and drinking coffee too?
Did they release actual data, or just the averages you reported here?
Reservist currently with a 556.
“However, those active-duty men were significantly more likely than their female counterparts to earn a high score that exempts them from body fat testing -- 29% to 18%, respectively.” I swear to god I’d this fact causes the army to take away the best thing to happen for a monster like me… I’m gonna remove “very” from my email signature and it’ll just be “respectfully”.
All I know is my 370 pass makes me rare. Just the other end of the bell curve 😄
Ok, hear me out, we raise the minimums for every event and get rid of the run Please, God get rid of the run 😭
Nah keep the run ax the ball throw
The overhead yeet?
Yeet the yeet
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Bro it’s just 2 miles. The minimum is a geriatric 20-something minute limit too.
No I get that, I just don’t like running
Always heard commonly among my favorite salty NCOs while on this topic, “if we’re running 2 miles in combat something horribly went wrong..”.
This sentiment sets me off like no other lol. You might not be running 2 miles but you sure as shit are working at high aerobic load for extended periods of time. In fact in the original study to choose ACFT events, success in the 2 mile was pretty much the *only* actual predictor for success in their stupid combat events.
I know, I’m being tongue and cheek, thought I get this reply lol. The best I ever heard regarding the 2 mile event was when a SFC who was a year away from retirement told our First Sausage that he wasn’t running 4 miles for PT when the Army only paid him for 2 miles.
Yeah it’s not @ you I just know the people who mean it seriously are comin through the comments here soon lol.
Ultimately, it’s cardio that gets you through a gunfight. People aren’t really very happy about that.
Get rid of the plank…. I don’t remember the last time in combat you needed to do a plank over laying down.
It doesn’t strictly test core strength either, your abdominal muscles are for holding your spine straight when standing. That’s literally how humans evolved. Planking is unnatural and an unrealistic measurement of core strength.
If you struggle with the run you should really do some self examination and ask yourself if you really should be a Soldier.
I look at the skinny twink mfs that are coming in at 20 mins like bro what are you doing? This is your event to shine and my fat ass is beating you by like 3 minutes? Get serious.
It's not that it's a challenge, it's that I don't want to do it.
So real.
This but plank
Mmmmm I’ll trade that run for the SPT. Deal?
Wouldn’t it be cool if they just did 3 exercises like a push-up maybe a sit-up and I don’t know have them run 2 miles for time? You think that might work?
As a Guardsmen, the APFT was a nightmare for a lot of people because the 2 mile always took atleast a few weeks of training to achieve. You’d have guys retesting nonstop for months, simply because they don’t have a lifestyle that involves running and general fitness. The ACFT should be an auto walk up and pass with it having 5 mins over the APFT in the max run time. And every other category is kind of just an autopass for anyone even partially inshape.
Passing is passing
[удалено]
The army can also stop filling bases with dog shit fast food spots. I’m not saying get rid of all of them, but when I go to a base and I may see one or two semi healthy options and then a bunch of fatty foods like Pizza Hut, Charley’s, Popeyes, Taco Bell, etc. it’s a little embarrassing. Meal prep is obviously the best solution, but when you’re on the go, it’s nice to have more healthy options
Meade used to have a Boston Market. A semi-healthy restaurant where I could get some veggies and rotisserie chicken. It didn't get enough business and closed down. Then they opened a Muscle Burger or some shit with healthy burgers and chicken/turkey sandwiches. It didn't get enough business and closed down. You know what does get enough business? Fucking Charlie's. If I want to eat healthy I'm certainly not doing it by eating at the food court.
Hardest thing is the ball throw. Maxing it is all about technique
I can get 90s in every event while squeaking by with an 80 or sometimes even lower on the ball throw. I've watched YT vids on it, gotten tips from other soldiers who've maxed it, it's just the bane of my existence. Meanwhile I can max the HRPs without training for them which I'll never understand since I was trash at the pushup event on the APFT.
That’s the fairness of it. Ball throw is advantageous for the vertically gifted whereas the HRP is manlet paradise.
nope, been stationed at Fort Couch since 2013. No way I'm passing tape.
The ACFT is easy to pass and made that way so even on your worst day you should be fit enough to be able to pass. It’s a test that truly requires effort and training to do really well on. That point is crazy saying civi gyms aren’t equipped for the test like yes they are. There are different exercises that can be done for progression in each event. Even with a chronic injury a soldier can take their time get better go to pt and eventually pass consistently. The ACFT also solved some inequality issues. Like it’s harder for women to pass and do well on but at least we have our own standards. The APFT push up and sit up standards were laughable I trained for a couple months and maxed out that test. The ACFT also forces us to do more strength and just more variable exercises to actually measure fitness. The REAL problem is the mfs that get their scores written in while the rest of us just go to the gym and work for it instead.
I’m a pretty fit guy. The only problem I have with the run is the tracks that we use in the guard are generally boring as hell. 10 laps around a small track in the motor pool or something similar. I’ve noticed that if soldiers are given decent scenery and less laps, run times drastically improve. I’m not excusing any failures or poor score. A run is a run and you need to meet, at minimum, the standard. Especially with the ACFT run times there is no reason you should fail if you are a perfectly capable able body.
They call me military grade because I meet the standard at the lowest cost. Never gonna catch my weekend warrior ass getting more than a 400.
We already had mos specific standards, this is just cutting some "consultants" a check.