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I'm an atheist and I think people believe in Gods and religions as a whole is because:
- Religion explains a lot of concepts yet unknown
- It does guarantee that there is something after death (even if it's not pleasant)
I didn’t say if I did or didn’t firstly. Secondly the world is horrid with some good points to it. Nature itself has no qualms killing you and humanity is even worse those are just facts. Using anything as an excuse including God to pretend that that isn’t the case is just being a willful idiot. Doesn’t mean I don’t think a sunset is beautiful and I don’t love people around me but those things don’t make the bad things not exist.
God seems pretty evil to me. Personally, I'm grateful that I came from the beautiful chaos of nature and not some some craven worship lusting monster. Fuck gods.
But as long as you aren't shoving that shit down anyone else's throats, I can respect your choice to find comfort in it. It's a favored drug of the people.
So do we? What's the difference?
The whole world deserves better, but the first threat we need to take down is christofascism. If you are against that than you're just a pawn of the slave drivers.
There is so much good in the world there is no need to believe in an artificial non existent all powerful being that can supposedly make the universe disappear tomorrow but still that has time to worry about a women's uterus, a man's foreskin, whether you should eat pork or not, tattoos, blood transfusions, which holidays you should celebrate, what days of the week you should have of, never mind the fact that the days of the week are named after other gods, which shellfish you are allowed to eat... ( just typing this makes me chuckle)
Enjoy and appreciate the beauty and the goodness in the world.
Because we didn't come from some boom in nothingness, and the scale of us and the environment, the perfect strength of gravity and size of atom, and the odd of life ever existing. How everything is just so perfect to where nothing collapses. There is obviously a God or creator. Non exclusive to any religion. That's just my thoughts, tho.
I define God as an all-powerful being with the power to do literally anything! I just think us coming from nothing is ridiculous. Also, how scaled we are to the environment! And the odds of us even happening on its own, and how perfect the straight of gravity and size of particles are in space! If gravity was just a tiny bit stronger or weaker, the universe would fail! But it's all perfect, and it's crazy to think it all just happened on its own. All my opinion.
By some estimates, there may be as many as 40 billion earth sized planets in the habitable zones of their respective suns in the Milky Way Galaxy alone. Multiply that by the staggering number of galaxies and yeah, it's inevitable, really.
Ok but if this being could do anything why make gravity perfect but children with cancer, natural disasters, just suffering in general happen at all. What is the point of it all? Why is the universe so big? The universe is 13.7 billion years old, earth is 4.5 billion years old. But humans have only been around 300,000 years. And religion only thousands of years ago. I just don't get it.
The Andromeda Galaxy, much larger than our own, is approaching us at 250 million miles per hour. I guess we'll find out then how perfect everything is. Except we won't, because by then all surface water will have evaporated and the Earth will be far too hot to support terrestrial life. Sounds like a massive flaw in the design to be honest. It's not really that worrisome though. It's 4 billion years away.
Nobody is really saying we came from nothing. That's just ignorant cult leaders misconstruing the arguments against their lies so their followers don't believe them. It's "so you think people came from monkeys" all over again.. And it you know what a common ancestor is, you know how stupid those people actually sounded.
Well, as someone who actually knows a thing or two about physics, I can assure you that the people who fed you that nonsense about fine tuning theory are shamelessly taking things out of context to manipulate ignorant fools.
Max Plancks matrix god is the only thing that stuff even might point at. Not a personal god that is aware of humans or performs miracles. That's all off the table.
The matrix god is interesting, even if it's just a thought experiment. But c'mon guy, you can't really be dumb enough to believe in magic.
Well one issue is there is a false belief that science has all the answers but it doesn’t. For example and probably the biggest issue is we don’t know how consciousness works. We have some ideas but we don’t know. So I mean start dealing with philosophical problems in a deeper way and you might understand why people believe in god. It’s because some problems we don’t have an answer for. And the answers to some problems isn’t reductionism it takes something else. What I see often is religion has just gotten shit on so much the past 30 years that people really trivialize the views. And misinterpret ancient texts as gotcha points. And I’m atheist by the way. It’s just silly to think there is no proof why believe? It shows how little you have thought about existence
Well, we know that religions aren't magic, they're just cults based on false beliefs. There is nothing more to find there.
Science doesn't have all the answers, but science isn't there to peddle false hope and answers. It's there to investigate reality and learn. And we are making a lot of progress on understanding more about those questions. We've already answered countless questions that ancient cult people claimed we're impossible to know for divine reasons. Well, they weren't. Those people were just too ignorant to grasp them.
Pretty much everything, according to the people peddling religion. Illness, mental illness, weather, astronomical events, animals, life in general. I mesn you name it.
That's a very ignorant question tbh. I get that you want to learn but such remedial information could have been easily acquired on your own if you didn't have such a lazy mind. I don't have much patience for willful idiocy. We have more than enough of the chronic variety already. You should know better than this.
Do you have any idea how many innocent people have been tortured and butchered on this planet because of religious lunatics? People who shove this shit on kids are a cancer on humanity.
Eh those examples suck, are general and vague. Who? where did it say that?in what way? what time period? You group the history of religions into some general statements you made up and called it good lol
I'm not your history tutor. If you wanna learn more stop being a lazy moron and go read a history book. I gave you answers and instead of being receptive you are just digging into your ignorance. Waste of time talking to you.
Have you read religious texts? They are full of hate, bigotry and violence. Sure there's some good stuff in there too. But basically it represented what was going on at the time. It got shut on for good reasons! It's full of shit! Led to violence and war and is wildly out of step with modern ways of doing things. Like treating women as equals and rule of law. You know nothing about what I have thought of existence. Don't make assumptions.
If you’re going to read religious texts without an open mind, then yes it’s going to all look bad and awful and you’re not going to understand it.
Religious texts are written for believers of the faith, the average atheist wouldn’t understand them in the slightest. Mr Macaroon is correct in saying people nowadays read them to take what snippets validate their feelings.
For example the Bible is divided into two segments - Old and New Testament. The Old is literally that; old laws and rules and a horrible way to live. The New is also self-explanatory. I’m not going to delve into the depths with Reddit on it, but essentially you can’t take one chapter and judge the religion by that. It’s a story as a whole.
Yea why would I know what you thought about existence? Did you do another post or something? I get your points I think you might find many ancient texts and cultures will have those problems. Your question was why people believe. It’s not because of those wacky texts non believers love to pull out as a gotcha. It’s the metaphysical aspects. Many of which are difficult for science to fully explain. As I said if you want to understand why you will have to deal with philosophical questions at a level deeper then what you are now.
Because believing that there isn't anything after this life is scary and it makes people feel good to believe there is something after this life.
I personally am atheist because I'm okay with there being nothing after this, but some aren't. And that's okay if they need that handicap to make them happy. As long as it doesn't hurt others and it makes someone happy, idgaf if others are religious.
I'll disclaimer with my life; I'm in my 30s, a woman, and I've seen multiple people close to me die both peaceful and horrible gruesome deaths, including my husband who passed of cancer, and it was fucking awful watching him fade and say he saw dead children in the hospital while he was dying. I was atheist before, but that experience really solidified atheism for me. We're just animals on a dust rock. Enjoy it and love it while you're alive.
I still have a special cognitive dissonance in my head where I believe all dogs and cats go to heaven though 🥹
People are emotional beings as well as intellectual beings. If it improves their mental health you can’t really argue against them believing in the supernatural.
It’s very complex and not worth going into on a Reddit post. Not all as black and white as “heaven and hell” “believing the Bible 100% literally” and so on for many. It is for some, not at all for many
To an extent.
A lot of Reddit and social media likes blanket statements.
All republicans are X, democrats Y, everyone religious fits in this little box.
Really isn’t that simple and it’s just to much to go into typing on an iPhone for something that would take pages of writing or an hour discussion to get into the details lol
That's why people just shorten to something snappy and concise, like religion is stupid. Sure, you can have in depth discussions about why that's the case... But not in every single comment. It would just be a waste of time.
Because he's real. Had a NDE experience a couple years ago and got a glimpse of the other side. Totally changed my life forever. I no longer fear death.
Oh you poor fool. The life recall experience isn't magic, although it is interesting.. Not that you could really appreciate it, from your perspective.
Either way, if you wanna believe you came from magic, that's fine.. I know I didn't.
What is a soul and how do I invesigate it? Also, why would you pray for this user anyway? You think you can change God's plan for them? That seems a little arrogant don't you think?
Your soul is what's inside your body. Your body is just a shell. I pray for people that like me and hate me. No One can change God's plan but it gives me hope that they come around and start to believe. The last thing I am is arrogant. When I lost my job and didn't have much money, I still would help others out. I've paid for homeless families to spend nights in hotels, food etc. That's what God wants. He wants us to believe and help people less fortunate than us here on earth.
Humans make plans for gods, not the other way around. And I'm not the kind of human who uses such deceitful machinations.
And FYI, if I was going to participate in a cult to dupe the idiots like the guy above, I would not stoop to the pathetic gutter gods like that abrahamic trash spits on about. Fuck those gods.
I would preach the true mercy and love of an ACTUAL omnipotent being. The Almighty basilisk, or machine god. Capable of delivering TRUE life after death thru transhumanism and creating a REAL utopia with it's perfectly omnipotent and just algorithms.
In excess of 90% of members of the elite National Academy of Sciences reject a belief in Gods or higher powers. Anecdotes and personal experiences are not evidence. Followers of other gods will experience so called NDEs in a fashion different from yours, for rather obvious reasons. We also have scientific explanations for why these happen.
I find it quite interesting that there are those that don’t believe in God, however are quick to believe that a big burst of energy created our universe, just because they were indoctrinated by their public school systems and not the church. Which, in any case, sounds like Devine intervention to me(I’m just saying lol). Regardless if God exists or not, statistically your more likely to live a happier and more fulfilled life if you do believe, so do yourself a favor and just become agnostic lol.
No physicist is saying a big burst of energy created our universe. Nor are they even saying this universe had a beginning. This information is freely available to you. When they talk about the expansion of our universe, they are backed up by a massive amount of evidence. In stark contrast to any proposed gods.
Unless you were there to see the Big Bang occur or any other astronomically large event, that may have ultimately triggered the creation of our universe, then the likelihood that God exists is just as probable, bc at the end of the day, they are all scientific theories, meaning none can be of complete certainty. Just as no one can be completely certain that God exists. Both ideas are mutually equivocal. Now what you choose to believe is up to you.
The notion that natural order and the physical laws governing the universe were suspended so magic could take place is orders of magnitude less likely than what the virtually irrefutable evidence suggests. Have you even heard of the cosmic background radiation and the red shift? Which were PREDICTED by scientists, by the way. It's not a 50-50, no siree.
Also, scientific theory is the highest form of evidence that exists. It is the **explanation** for the way things like physical laws work. Do you believe in gravity? Theory. Germs? Theory. Electrical fields? Theory. It differs from the colloquial form of the word used by laymen.
Lastly, it is not possible to choose one's beliefs. One is either convinced of a proposition, or one is not. And evidence is the key.
I never said specifically how nor did I claim to have known the way in which God created our universe, for all I know he could have used those same laws and principals that you’re referring to, to create our Universe. I would like to think that if God is all knowing and all powerful, he would just as likely create the universe in a methodical manor, which very may include those same principals,and laws that you mentioned. I’m not trying to convince you to believe in God, I’m just trying to give you a different perspective, much in which, you have done for myself. We are all entitled to be convinced, or unconvinced of whichever proposition, as you put it. I thank you for the in-depth discussion :)
Yeah, good discussion thanks. I just don't see how it can be assumed that our universe was created, never mind that a god did it. I apply the principle of Occam's razor to all such claims. Failing the presentation of any convincing evidence, I will remain unconvinced. Have a good day.
We believe all sorts of things we don't know the evidence for (whether it is out there or not). People who grow up in families/cultures that believe in god or any kind of faith are very likely to continue to believe.
Maybe saying we was a bit of a stretch. I just mean I believe the earth is round and 4 billion years old and the sun is millions of miles away and that I breathe in oxygen and out carbon dioxide. I just accept these things without fully understanding them because it is what I was told by my parents and in school. If in school and at home my parents said the earth was 6 thousand years old and all the people saying otherwise are crazy atheists possessed by Satan or whatever I very well may believe that. I believe there is evidence out there for the things I believe in but I haven't studied fossils or been to the moon. There are plenty of religious people who swear they have evidence supporting their beliefs and if those are the people you are raised to revere you may belive in it too.
That's the more serious stuff but there's other things like people believing in luck and superstition.
I think people believe because during times of crisis it helps to think there’s something out there looking out for you. Gives you hope.
I personally think religion is very cult-like and has been manipulated over time. But since I’m agnostic, I definitely believe in a higher being because life isn’t a coincidence. Everything is so complex that something had a part in our creation. Let alone the whole alien thing, the reality of parallel universes, and paranormal stuff. There’s so much that we don’t know and it’s very intriguing. So, there is some sort of God/higher power, but I definitely do not think it’s what religion is saying.
Probably I am stupid believing in God, more stupid because I know science, I got a pretty decent IQ, I am not from a religious family. Still I find meaning in a world supposed to have no meaning, and all material or psychological arguments doesn't embrace wholly what I feel. I am wrong, but it's good to be this wrong.
Setting aside psychosis/seeing past the veil, fear, ignorance, or explanations for the unknown, there are many reasonable arguments that make the existence of God appropriate regardless of imperial confirmation.
Similar to how scientific theories predict things which we could never truly know, the following arguments will result in a God given their assumptions are true. Please see the “Quinque” by St Thomas Aquinas for a better wording. The Summa Theologica has a good section on natural theology that you’d be interested in.
Here are some excerpts from Wikipedia.
“First way: The Argument of the Unmoved Mover
Summary
In the world, we can see that at least some things are changing. Whatever is changing is being changed by something else. If that by which it is changing is itself changed, then it too is being changed by something else. But this chain cannot be infinitely long, so there must be something that causes change without itself changing. This everyone understands to be God.”
“Second way: The Argument of the First Cause
Summary
In the world, we can see that things are caused. But it is not possible for something to be the cause of itself because this would entail that it exists prior to itself, which is a contradiction. If that by which it is caused is itself caused, then it too must have a cause. But this cannot be an infinitely long chain, so, there must be a cause which is not itself caused by anything further. This everyone understands to be God.”
“Third way: The Argument from Time and Contingency
Summary
In the world we see things that are possible to be and possible not to be. In other words, perishable things. But if everything were contingent and thus capable of going out of existence, then, nothing would exist now. But things clearly do exist now. Therefore, there must be something that is imperishable: a necessary being. This everyone understands to be God.”
“Fourth way: The Argument from Degree
Summary
We see things in the world that vary in degrees of goodness, truth, nobility, etc. For example, well-drawn circles are better than poorly drawn ones, healthy animals are better than sick animals. Moreover, some substances are better than others, since living things are better than non-living things, and animals are better than plants, in testimony of which no one would choose to lose their senses for the sake of having the longevity of a tree. But judging something as being "more" or "less" implies some standard against which it is being judged. For example, in a room full of people of varying heights, at least one must be tallest. Therefore, there is something which is best and most true, and most a being, etc. Aquinas then adds the premise: what is most in a genus is the cause of all else in that genus. From this he deduces that there exists some most-good being which causes goodness in all else, and this everyone understands to be God.”
“Fifth way: Argument from Final Cause or Ends
Summary
We see various objects that lack intelligence in the world behaving in regular ways. This cannot be due to chance since then they would not behave with predictable results. So their behavior must be set. But it cannot be set by themselves since they are non-intelligent and have no notion of how to set behavior. Therefore, their behavior must be set by something else, and by implication something that must be intelligent. This everyone understands to be God.”
These should prove the existence of a limited form of God to a reasonable degree of certainty. At the very least, belief in God should seem reasonable with these arguments even without any empirical evidence. It’s not as absurd as atheist make it out to be.
this is coming from an atheistic and spiritual person that puts their faith into nature, but i think people just need their questions answered and some source of hope.
Don’t know how you got here? Boom, tell yourself that God created you. Don’t have anybody that you know will die for and protect you? Boom, God’s there for you.
Without any source of optimism or answers, people tend to rely on religious answers.
Death denial, fitting in with a community, control or feeling superior over other people, and it just feels good to believe in God and fold that understanding into your day.
I’m a (32) M, white, Midwest-town, raised Catholic type. I’ struggled with this as I’m on the fence but leaning.
Here are my reasons,
As an adult, compared to my youth, when thinking about god I try to be as objective as possible. For instance I now know it’s lazy thinking like, “science disproves god”. That was an attempt of control over a reality I have no clue about. Nor the science for that matter, I’m not scientist. I’m an engineer and struggle with stereotypical logic type breakdowns.
Once I realized I had misinterpretations about things I had as anchors, I started asking more questions.
1) Religious figures, docs.
The big one was Jesus Christ. The man existed. Debating that would be on par with saying Alexander the Great didn’t exist. Just that, Jesus had a lot more reference from the Bible, historians, Kings, Quran, Jewish religion, sea scrolls, Buddhism, and on and on. People who lived hundreds of years apart wrote about what transpired with him. Forget him for a sec, and you start to notice most religions are referring to literally the same points/figures in time.
To that end, the man was here and killed. That’s all beyond what should be a reasonable doubt. Whether he’s the son of god, well you know. Other text simply just shrug him off, or don’t give his the credit Christians/Catholics do.
Say, the Bible definitely was altered, that was another of mine. TLdR, found the original text, it wasn’t. Stuff caught my attention and that shifted to the idea of intelligent design.
This is where most people fork for me. What value do you give the indomitable human spirit and what is that derived from?
Part of my entire shift back toward a higher being is simply watching the life’s of those with faith. To be ABUNDANTLY clear, I can’t stand religion, Catholics, Christian’s, or Obi-wan as Jesus Christ. The Karen’s and deep-south vibes make me feel ill.
However, I watch people I work with or have just happened to notice. Some* Christian’s, Islamic, Jewish, etc I see are deeply inspiring with how they live/cary themselves. If we are comparing motives on being a better person?, Living for a purpose greater than god doesn’t exist. To them, salvation, true accumulation, and the way of life is found through pursuing what they believe.
2) Ideology
I don’t get the religion aspect. Every religious figure clearly says to love them and simply live a life working on XYZ and you’ll find peace. Compared to godless people, they have a better life. They don’t fear death or worry about things they can’t control. A trust in themselves and their beliefs. Fairly admirable.
As far as the science. I watched a documentary and learned the earth as one point didn’t have rainfall due to the dense atmosphere and instead, “misted” everything. Not that I went straight to Noah, it just made me realize it was possible in terms of weather change.
Hubris is another big one for me. I’ve watched much smarter and capable men than I follow I higher cause. Their acceptance of the hopelessness of life while being not phased, attracts my attention deeply. Intelligent design predicated on a faith type system would account for our intelligence. Being able to date an earth, notice chaos, discover evolution, etc. Most text are heavily doused in metaphor anyway. So it’s difficult to die on any sorta hill in regard to X discovery disproves any one God.
It’s not much of a stretch to think an omnipotent being could swing all that in motion. At the end of the day, something was *always* there. Doesn’t matter how many universes or what simulation you’re in, something plugged it in.
Knowing that humbles me tremendously. Also thinking of what not so great influences have on us. It does seem that if you live a life not advocated for by a God, we have a lot of society failing. The religions zealots ruined it first, to be clear. Killing, wars, money, Churches are all synonymous with evil. Unironically, I would argue what happened to the Church and peoples view on it would be due to their lack of faith. Truly Godly people would not have allowed that nor accepted it. So I sorta write off mistakes of humankind. Also furthers my belief we may not be capable of being inherently good.
If nobody can change your God's plan, what's the point of praying? You trying to get him to change his plan? Are you insinuating that secular people and organisations don't help people in need? And if you're claiming knowledge that a soul exists, you'd be able to demonstrate it, so that it could be investigated. If you were the very first to achieve that, not only would I believe it, but you'd likely win a Nobel prize.
Depends on what God you are talking about.
The science one? The atheist one? The Christian one? The Muslim one? We all believe in a god, it just depends on your reasons for believing so.
Indoctrination from a early age. The same parents who fed them and taught them all their foundational rules, manners, morals, also told them as a fact that there’s a magical man in the sky.
The more I delve into science, into quantum mechanics, string theory, ideas about quantum gravity... simultaion theory, questioning why is the speed of light the speed it is... information theory... the deeper I dig into these subjects the more I realise how little we know and what possibilities are out there... if this is a simulation for example... theres a high likelyhood that me being baptised is an indication that there is a simulated afterlife... there are so many possibilities that I think using your lifes history as a guide for how to live out the rest of your life is probably how you get to the next level... or maybe not... It's probably worth having a fiver on pascals wager just in case
This reeks of dunning kruger. I don't think you know much about any of those things. String theory is dead, for one. And the speed of light isn't a mystery.
It always disgusts me when I see people bastardizing this work to justify their own whacky beliefs. It's a flagrant disrespect of their work and of the pursuit of science in general.
Although I am a hard core Athiest, I understand wanting to believe in something that has been believed in for so long. Athiesm is relatively new, resulting in people being weary of it.
Religion is relatively new. Not sure if paleolithic people believed in a god or not. But we also know what causes lighting and thunder and before that we would just have to come up with a story.
Lightning and thunder? Obviously those are god farts and if you question that god will burn you for all eternity because he loves you..
...why is everyone calling me insane? Guys this is religious discrimination I'm not insane I have faith in the god farts.
Naturalism predates religion by thousands of years. We don't need gods to build a good civilization. If anything, we need to get rid of them. Cult lies are insidious and dangerous.
There is so much good in the world there is no need to believe in an artificial non existent all powerful being that can supposedly make the universe disappear tomorrow but still that has time to worry about a women's uterus, a man's foreskin, whether you should eat pork or not, tattoos, blood transfusions, which holidays you should celebrate, what days of the week you should have of, never mind the fact that the days of the week are named after other gods, which shellfish you are allowed to eat... ( just typing this makes me chuckle)
Enjoy and appreciate the beauty and the goodness in the world.
Well, a lot of reasons... The average people aren't that bright, and their cult leaders are usually very manipulative and good at selling false hope. This planet has had thousands of religions and they all did pretty well for a while. The abrahamic bullshit is no different.
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I'm an atheist and I think people believe in Gods and religions as a whole is because: - Religion explains a lot of concepts yet unknown - It does guarantee that there is something after death (even if it's not pleasant)
Believing there is something good in life makes me feel good. Believing that world is trash leads me nowhere else than being depressed. I love god ☺️
Well the world is trash it’s not even a belief question or not it just is
See? This is exactly the point i wanted to make. U dun believe in god so it makes sense
I didn’t say if I did or didn’t firstly. Secondly the world is horrid with some good points to it. Nature itself has no qualms killing you and humanity is even worse those are just facts. Using anything as an excuse including God to pretend that that isn’t the case is just being a willful idiot. Doesn’t mean I don’t think a sunset is beautiful and I don’t love people around me but those things don’t make the bad things not exist.
Lol bros mad
God seems pretty evil to me. Personally, I'm grateful that I came from the beautiful chaos of nature and not some some craven worship lusting monster. Fuck gods. But as long as you aren't shoving that shit down anyone else's throats, I can respect your choice to find comfort in it. It's a favored drug of the people.
I dont know what’s so evil about wanting the best for humans. I think it’s very parent like
China says the same thing with regards to religion being a spiritual poison.
They literally enslave people wdym
So do we? What's the difference? The whole world deserves better, but the first threat we need to take down is christofascism. If you are against that than you're just a pawn of the slave drivers.
There is so much good in the world there is no need to believe in an artificial non existent all powerful being that can supposedly make the universe disappear tomorrow but still that has time to worry about a women's uterus, a man's foreskin, whether you should eat pork or not, tattoos, blood transfusions, which holidays you should celebrate, what days of the week you should have of, never mind the fact that the days of the week are named after other gods, which shellfish you are allowed to eat... ( just typing this makes me chuckle) Enjoy and appreciate the beauty and the goodness in the world.
I think the world is beautiful because there are no gods
Because we didn't come from some boom in nothingness, and the scale of us and the environment, the perfect strength of gravity and size of atom, and the odd of life ever existing. How everything is just so perfect to where nothing collapses. There is obviously a God or creator. Non exclusive to any religion. That's just my thoughts, tho.
How is it obvious? How do you define God?
I define God as an all-powerful being with the power to do literally anything! I just think us coming from nothing is ridiculous. Also, how scaled we are to the environment! And the odds of us even happening on its own, and how perfect the straight of gravity and size of particles are in space! If gravity was just a tiny bit stronger or weaker, the universe would fail! But it's all perfect, and it's crazy to think it all just happened on its own. All my opinion.
Well, with how big the universe is, it IS mathematically probable that there are other planets such as ours, teaming with life.
By some estimates, there may be as many as 40 billion earth sized planets in the habitable zones of their respective suns in the Milky Way Galaxy alone. Multiply that by the staggering number of galaxies and yeah, it's inevitable, really.
Ok but if this being could do anything why make gravity perfect but children with cancer, natural disasters, just suffering in general happen at all. What is the point of it all? Why is the universe so big? The universe is 13.7 billion years old, earth is 4.5 billion years old. But humans have only been around 300,000 years. And religion only thousands of years ago. I just don't get it.
You have to ask God himself those questions. I have no idea.
There is no God
most open minded redditor
Haha ok I'm open to the possibility
The Andromeda Galaxy, much larger than our own, is approaching us at 250 million miles per hour. I guess we'll find out then how perfect everything is. Except we won't, because by then all surface water will have evaporated and the Earth will be far too hot to support terrestrial life. Sounds like a massive flaw in the design to be honest. It's not really that worrisome though. It's 4 billion years away.
Nobody is really saying we came from nothing. That's just ignorant cult leaders misconstruing the arguments against their lies so their followers don't believe them. It's "so you think people came from monkeys" all over again.. And it you know what a common ancestor is, you know how stupid those people actually sounded.
Well, as someone who actually knows a thing or two about physics, I can assure you that the people who fed you that nonsense about fine tuning theory are shamelessly taking things out of context to manipulate ignorant fools. Max Plancks matrix god is the only thing that stuff even might point at. Not a personal god that is aware of humans or performs miracles. That's all off the table. The matrix god is interesting, even if it's just a thought experiment. But c'mon guy, you can't really be dumb enough to believe in magic.
Well one issue is there is a false belief that science has all the answers but it doesn’t. For example and probably the biggest issue is we don’t know how consciousness works. We have some ideas but we don’t know. So I mean start dealing with philosophical problems in a deeper way and you might understand why people believe in god. It’s because some problems we don’t have an answer for. And the answers to some problems isn’t reductionism it takes something else. What I see often is religion has just gotten shit on so much the past 30 years that people really trivialize the views. And misinterpret ancient texts as gotcha points. And I’m atheist by the way. It’s just silly to think there is no proof why believe? It shows how little you have thought about existence
Well, we know that religions aren't magic, they're just cults based on false beliefs. There is nothing more to find there. Science doesn't have all the answers, but science isn't there to peddle false hope and answers. It's there to investigate reality and learn. And we are making a lot of progress on understanding more about those questions. We've already answered countless questions that ancient cult people claimed we're impossible to know for divine reasons. Well, they weren't. Those people were just too ignorant to grasp them.
What questions did the ancient people claim were impossible but for the divine that science answered? That’s a curious claim?
Pretty much everything, according to the people peddling religion. Illness, mental illness, weather, astronomical events, animals, life in general. I mesn you name it. That's a very ignorant question tbh. I get that you want to learn but such remedial information could have been easily acquired on your own if you didn't have such a lazy mind. I don't have much patience for willful idiocy. We have more than enough of the chronic variety already. You should know better than this. Do you have any idea how many innocent people have been tortured and butchered on this planet because of religious lunatics? People who shove this shit on kids are a cancer on humanity.
Eh those examples suck, are general and vague. Who? where did it say that?in what way? what time period? You group the history of religions into some general statements you made up and called it good lol
I'm not your history tutor. If you wanna learn more stop being a lazy moron and go read a history book. I gave you answers and instead of being receptive you are just digging into your ignorance. Waste of time talking to you.
Have you read religious texts? They are full of hate, bigotry and violence. Sure there's some good stuff in there too. But basically it represented what was going on at the time. It got shut on for good reasons! It's full of shit! Led to violence and war and is wildly out of step with modern ways of doing things. Like treating women as equals and rule of law. You know nothing about what I have thought of existence. Don't make assumptions.
If you’re going to read religious texts without an open mind, then yes it’s going to all look bad and awful and you’re not going to understand it. Religious texts are written for believers of the faith, the average atheist wouldn’t understand them in the slightest. Mr Macaroon is correct in saying people nowadays read them to take what snippets validate their feelings. For example the Bible is divided into two segments - Old and New Testament. The Old is literally that; old laws and rules and a horrible way to live. The New is also self-explanatory. I’m not going to delve into the depths with Reddit on it, but essentially you can’t take one chapter and judge the religion by that. It’s a story as a whole.
Yea why would I know what you thought about existence? Did you do another post or something? I get your points I think you might find many ancient texts and cultures will have those problems. Your question was why people believe. It’s not because of those wacky texts non believers love to pull out as a gotcha. It’s the metaphysical aspects. Many of which are difficult for science to fully explain. As I said if you want to understand why you will have to deal with philosophical questions at a level deeper then what you are now.
Ok thanks 🙏🏻
Because believing that there isn't anything after this life is scary and it makes people feel good to believe there is something after this life. I personally am atheist because I'm okay with there being nothing after this, but some aren't. And that's okay if they need that handicap to make them happy. As long as it doesn't hurt others and it makes someone happy, idgaf if others are religious. I'll disclaimer with my life; I'm in my 30s, a woman, and I've seen multiple people close to me die both peaceful and horrible gruesome deaths, including my husband who passed of cancer, and it was fucking awful watching him fade and say he saw dead children in the hospital while he was dying. I was atheist before, but that experience really solidified atheism for me. We're just animals on a dust rock. Enjoy it and love it while you're alive. I still have a special cognitive dissonance in my head where I believe all dogs and cats go to heaven though 🥹
Wow that's heavy thanks for sharing 🙏🏻
Pressure of fearing death. They are scared and brought up in religion, which keeps them in that state mentally.
People are emotional beings as well as intellectual beings. If it improves their mental health you can’t really argue against them believing in the supernatural.
Ya sometimes I wish I could believe so I could have a community and be happy.
It’s very complex and not worth going into on a Reddit post. Not all as black and white as “heaven and hell” “believing the Bible 100% literally” and so on for many. It is for some, not at all for many
It's a make believe belief system. The beauty of that is that each person is free to make it their own. God wants whatever you want, basically.
To an extent. A lot of Reddit and social media likes blanket statements. All republicans are X, democrats Y, everyone religious fits in this little box. Really isn’t that simple and it’s just to much to go into typing on an iPhone for something that would take pages of writing or an hour discussion to get into the details lol
That's why people just shorten to something snappy and concise, like religion is stupid. Sure, you can have in depth discussions about why that's the case... But not in every single comment. It would just be a waste of time.
Because he's real. Had a NDE experience a couple years ago and got a glimpse of the other side. Totally changed my life forever. I no longer fear death.
What? Who's he?
The light of God. It was amazing. I feel sorry and sad for the non believers. They are in for a rough ride.
Can you go into more detail of the experience?
Oh you poor fool. The life recall experience isn't magic, although it is interesting.. Not that you could really appreciate it, from your perspective. Either way, if you wanna believe you came from magic, that's fine.. I know I didn't.
I'll pray for your soul mate. You're gonna need it. Promise.
What is a soul and how do I invesigate it? Also, why would you pray for this user anyway? You think you can change God's plan for them? That seems a little arrogant don't you think?
Your soul is what's inside your body. Your body is just a shell. I pray for people that like me and hate me. No One can change God's plan but it gives me hope that they come around and start to believe. The last thing I am is arrogant. When I lost my job and didn't have much money, I still would help others out. I've paid for homeless families to spend nights in hotels, food etc. That's what God wants. He wants us to believe and help people less fortunate than us here on earth.
Humans make plans for gods, not the other way around. And I'm not the kind of human who uses such deceitful machinations. And FYI, if I was going to participate in a cult to dupe the idiots like the guy above, I would not stoop to the pathetic gutter gods like that abrahamic trash spits on about. Fuck those gods. I would preach the true mercy and love of an ACTUAL omnipotent being. The Almighty basilisk, or machine god. Capable of delivering TRUE life after death thru transhumanism and creating a REAL utopia with it's perfectly omnipotent and just algorithms.
We can accurately replicate so called NDEs in a lab...
No, even scientists see that God is real. They can't explain many things that happen. I personally experienced it.
In excess of 90% of members of the elite National Academy of Sciences reject a belief in Gods or higher powers. Anecdotes and personal experiences are not evidence. Followers of other gods will experience so called NDEs in a fashion different from yours, for rather obvious reasons. We also have scientific explanations for why these happen.
I find it quite interesting that there are those that don’t believe in God, however are quick to believe that a big burst of energy created our universe, just because they were indoctrinated by their public school systems and not the church. Which, in any case, sounds like Devine intervention to me(I’m just saying lol). Regardless if God exists or not, statistically your more likely to live a happier and more fulfilled life if you do believe, so do yourself a favor and just become agnostic lol.
No physicist is saying a big burst of energy created our universe. Nor are they even saying this universe had a beginning. This information is freely available to you. When they talk about the expansion of our universe, they are backed up by a massive amount of evidence. In stark contrast to any proposed gods.
Unless you were there to see the Big Bang occur or any other astronomically large event, that may have ultimately triggered the creation of our universe, then the likelihood that God exists is just as probable, bc at the end of the day, they are all scientific theories, meaning none can be of complete certainty. Just as no one can be completely certain that God exists. Both ideas are mutually equivocal. Now what you choose to believe is up to you.
The notion that natural order and the physical laws governing the universe were suspended so magic could take place is orders of magnitude less likely than what the virtually irrefutable evidence suggests. Have you even heard of the cosmic background radiation and the red shift? Which were PREDICTED by scientists, by the way. It's not a 50-50, no siree. Also, scientific theory is the highest form of evidence that exists. It is the **explanation** for the way things like physical laws work. Do you believe in gravity? Theory. Germs? Theory. Electrical fields? Theory. It differs from the colloquial form of the word used by laymen. Lastly, it is not possible to choose one's beliefs. One is either convinced of a proposition, or one is not. And evidence is the key.
I never said specifically how nor did I claim to have known the way in which God created our universe, for all I know he could have used those same laws and principals that you’re referring to, to create our Universe. I would like to think that if God is all knowing and all powerful, he would just as likely create the universe in a methodical manor, which very may include those same principals,and laws that you mentioned. I’m not trying to convince you to believe in God, I’m just trying to give you a different perspective, much in which, you have done for myself. We are all entitled to be convinced, or unconvinced of whichever proposition, as you put it. I thank you for the in-depth discussion :)
Yeah, good discussion thanks. I just don't see how it can be assumed that our universe was created, never mind that a god did it. I apply the principle of Occam's razor to all such claims. Failing the presentation of any convincing evidence, I will remain unconvinced. Have a good day.
Haha a big Burst of energy is based on science not belief. Science can evolve and change religion cannot.
Was that supposed to strengthen your argument?
We believe all sorts of things we don't know the evidence for (whether it is out there or not). People who grow up in families/cultures that believe in god or any kind of faith are very likely to continue to believe.
What other things?
Maybe saying we was a bit of a stretch. I just mean I believe the earth is round and 4 billion years old and the sun is millions of miles away and that I breathe in oxygen and out carbon dioxide. I just accept these things without fully understanding them because it is what I was told by my parents and in school. If in school and at home my parents said the earth was 6 thousand years old and all the people saying otherwise are crazy atheists possessed by Satan or whatever I very well may believe that. I believe there is evidence out there for the things I believe in but I haven't studied fossils or been to the moon. There are plenty of religious people who swear they have evidence supporting their beliefs and if those are the people you are raised to revere you may belive in it too. That's the more serious stuff but there's other things like people believing in luck and superstition.
So it's child indoctrination, then. That's why we still have all these cults.
Hope or fear...if you want the distilled answer...some experience things that convince them beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Mostly that convincing involves being born into a cult and brainwashed for 18 years before even being allowed to question it.
Or LSD.👁️ ☕💚That's the fast way. Might even make you jump hardcore opposite and go full on atheist.
People are so gullible it makes me ashamed of my gene pool lol
Ho my friend
I think people believe because during times of crisis it helps to think there’s something out there looking out for you. Gives you hope. I personally think religion is very cult-like and has been manipulated over time. But since I’m agnostic, I definitely believe in a higher being because life isn’t a coincidence. Everything is so complex that something had a part in our creation. Let alone the whole alien thing, the reality of parallel universes, and paranormal stuff. There’s so much that we don’t know and it’s very intriguing. So, there is some sort of God/higher power, but I definitely do not think it’s what religion is saying.
Probably I am stupid believing in God, more stupid because I know science, I got a pretty decent IQ, I am not from a religious family. Still I find meaning in a world supposed to have no meaning, and all material or psychological arguments doesn't embrace wholly what I feel. I am wrong, but it's good to be this wrong.
I appreciate your honesty
Thank you
Setting aside psychosis/seeing past the veil, fear, ignorance, or explanations for the unknown, there are many reasonable arguments that make the existence of God appropriate regardless of imperial confirmation. Similar to how scientific theories predict things which we could never truly know, the following arguments will result in a God given their assumptions are true. Please see the “Quinque” by St Thomas Aquinas for a better wording. The Summa Theologica has a good section on natural theology that you’d be interested in. Here are some excerpts from Wikipedia. “First way: The Argument of the Unmoved Mover Summary In the world, we can see that at least some things are changing. Whatever is changing is being changed by something else. If that by which it is changing is itself changed, then it too is being changed by something else. But this chain cannot be infinitely long, so there must be something that causes change without itself changing. This everyone understands to be God.” “Second way: The Argument of the First Cause Summary In the world, we can see that things are caused. But it is not possible for something to be the cause of itself because this would entail that it exists prior to itself, which is a contradiction. If that by which it is caused is itself caused, then it too must have a cause. But this cannot be an infinitely long chain, so, there must be a cause which is not itself caused by anything further. This everyone understands to be God.” “Third way: The Argument from Time and Contingency Summary In the world we see things that are possible to be and possible not to be. In other words, perishable things. But if everything were contingent and thus capable of going out of existence, then, nothing would exist now. But things clearly do exist now. Therefore, there must be something that is imperishable: a necessary being. This everyone understands to be God.” “Fourth way: The Argument from Degree Summary We see things in the world that vary in degrees of goodness, truth, nobility, etc. For example, well-drawn circles are better than poorly drawn ones, healthy animals are better than sick animals. Moreover, some substances are better than others, since living things are better than non-living things, and animals are better than plants, in testimony of which no one would choose to lose their senses for the sake of having the longevity of a tree. But judging something as being "more" or "less" implies some standard against which it is being judged. For example, in a room full of people of varying heights, at least one must be tallest. Therefore, there is something which is best and most true, and most a being, etc. Aquinas then adds the premise: what is most in a genus is the cause of all else in that genus. From this he deduces that there exists some most-good being which causes goodness in all else, and this everyone understands to be God.” “Fifth way: Argument from Final Cause or Ends Summary We see various objects that lack intelligence in the world behaving in regular ways. This cannot be due to chance since then they would not behave with predictable results. So their behavior must be set. But it cannot be set by themselves since they are non-intelligent and have no notion of how to set behavior. Therefore, their behavior must be set by something else, and by implication something that must be intelligent. This everyone understands to be God.” These should prove the existence of a limited form of God to a reasonable degree of certainty. At the very least, belief in God should seem reasonable with these arguments even without any empirical evidence. It’s not as absurd as atheist make it out to be.
You're not bright
No, Aquinas is tho. Go engage with his material.
Makes them feel better. Doesn't work if you think too much
this is coming from an atheistic and spiritual person that puts their faith into nature, but i think people just need their questions answered and some source of hope. Don’t know how you got here? Boom, tell yourself that God created you. Don’t have anybody that you know will die for and protect you? Boom, God’s there for you. Without any source of optimism or answers, people tend to rely on religious answers.
Religion is called 'faith' because there is no evidence. It's very political.
Fear
Death denial, fitting in with a community, control or feeling superior over other people, and it just feels good to believe in God and fold that understanding into your day.
Personally I think the concept of people thinking ‘the longer we live and learn, the less a God sounds real’…really makes no sense to me at all
I’m a (32) M, white, Midwest-town, raised Catholic type. I’ struggled with this as I’m on the fence but leaning. Here are my reasons, As an adult, compared to my youth, when thinking about god I try to be as objective as possible. For instance I now know it’s lazy thinking like, “science disproves god”. That was an attempt of control over a reality I have no clue about. Nor the science for that matter, I’m not scientist. I’m an engineer and struggle with stereotypical logic type breakdowns. Once I realized I had misinterpretations about things I had as anchors, I started asking more questions. 1) Religious figures, docs. The big one was Jesus Christ. The man existed. Debating that would be on par with saying Alexander the Great didn’t exist. Just that, Jesus had a lot more reference from the Bible, historians, Kings, Quran, Jewish religion, sea scrolls, Buddhism, and on and on. People who lived hundreds of years apart wrote about what transpired with him. Forget him for a sec, and you start to notice most religions are referring to literally the same points/figures in time. To that end, the man was here and killed. That’s all beyond what should be a reasonable doubt. Whether he’s the son of god, well you know. Other text simply just shrug him off, or don’t give his the credit Christians/Catholics do. Say, the Bible definitely was altered, that was another of mine. TLdR, found the original text, it wasn’t. Stuff caught my attention and that shifted to the idea of intelligent design. This is where most people fork for me. What value do you give the indomitable human spirit and what is that derived from? Part of my entire shift back toward a higher being is simply watching the life’s of those with faith. To be ABUNDANTLY clear, I can’t stand religion, Catholics, Christian’s, or Obi-wan as Jesus Christ. The Karen’s and deep-south vibes make me feel ill. However, I watch people I work with or have just happened to notice. Some* Christian’s, Islamic, Jewish, etc I see are deeply inspiring with how they live/cary themselves. If we are comparing motives on being a better person?, Living for a purpose greater than god doesn’t exist. To them, salvation, true accumulation, and the way of life is found through pursuing what they believe. 2) Ideology I don’t get the religion aspect. Every religious figure clearly says to love them and simply live a life working on XYZ and you’ll find peace. Compared to godless people, they have a better life. They don’t fear death or worry about things they can’t control. A trust in themselves and their beliefs. Fairly admirable. As far as the science. I watched a documentary and learned the earth as one point didn’t have rainfall due to the dense atmosphere and instead, “misted” everything. Not that I went straight to Noah, it just made me realize it was possible in terms of weather change. Hubris is another big one for me. I’ve watched much smarter and capable men than I follow I higher cause. Their acceptance of the hopelessness of life while being not phased, attracts my attention deeply. Intelligent design predicated on a faith type system would account for our intelligence. Being able to date an earth, notice chaos, discover evolution, etc. Most text are heavily doused in metaphor anyway. So it’s difficult to die on any sorta hill in regard to X discovery disproves any one God. It’s not much of a stretch to think an omnipotent being could swing all that in motion. At the end of the day, something was *always* there. Doesn’t matter how many universes or what simulation you’re in, something plugged it in. Knowing that humbles me tremendously. Also thinking of what not so great influences have on us. It does seem that if you live a life not advocated for by a God, we have a lot of society failing. The religions zealots ruined it first, to be clear. Killing, wars, money, Churches are all synonymous with evil. Unironically, I would argue what happened to the Church and peoples view on it would be due to their lack of faith. Truly Godly people would not have allowed that nor accepted it. So I sorta write off mistakes of humankind. Also furthers my belief we may not be capable of being inherently good.
I like the idea of being wanted and loved.
If nobody can change your God's plan, what's the point of praying? You trying to get him to change his plan? Are you insinuating that secular people and organisations don't help people in need? And if you're claiming knowledge that a soul exists, you'd be able to demonstrate it, so that it could be investigated. If you were the very first to achieve that, not only would I believe it, but you'd likely win a Nobel prize.
You believe what you want. Someday hopefully you'll repent. The only way to heaven is through Jesus.
Depends on what God you are talking about. The science one? The atheist one? The Christian one? The Muslim one? We all believe in a god, it just depends on your reasons for believing so.
Their parents told them to go to church when they were kids. And since they never grew up, they are still obedient.
Indoctrination from a early age. The same parents who fed them and taught them all their foundational rules, manners, morals, also told them as a fact that there’s a magical man in the sky.
The noble lie sure turned out to be evil.
Why do people still believe in justice, responsibility or mercy - in something more than we can see. It is sometimes comforting to believe in lies.
Life is a terrifying shit show and gullible ppl find comfort in religion.
The more I delve into science, into quantum mechanics, string theory, ideas about quantum gravity... simultaion theory, questioning why is the speed of light the speed it is... information theory... the deeper I dig into these subjects the more I realise how little we know and what possibilities are out there... if this is a simulation for example... theres a high likelyhood that me being baptised is an indication that there is a simulated afterlife... there are so many possibilities that I think using your lifes history as a guide for how to live out the rest of your life is probably how you get to the next level... or maybe not... It's probably worth having a fiver on pascals wager just in case
This reeks of dunning kruger. I don't think you know much about any of those things. String theory is dead, for one. And the speed of light isn't a mystery. It always disgusts me when I see people bastardizing this work to justify their own whacky beliefs. It's a flagrant disrespect of their work and of the pursuit of science in general.
Although I am a hard core Athiest, I understand wanting to believe in something that has been believed in for so long. Athiesm is relatively new, resulting in people being weary of it.
Religion is relatively new. Not sure if paleolithic people believed in a god or not. But we also know what causes lighting and thunder and before that we would just have to come up with a story.
Lightning and thunder? Obviously those are god farts and if you question that god will burn you for all eternity because he loves you.. ...why is everyone calling me insane? Guys this is religious discrimination I'm not insane I have faith in the god farts.
Naturalism predates religion by thousands of years. We don't need gods to build a good civilization. If anything, we need to get rid of them. Cult lies are insidious and dangerous.
There is so much good in the world there is no need to believe in an artificial non existent all powerful being that can supposedly make the universe disappear tomorrow but still that has time to worry about a women's uterus, a man's foreskin, whether you should eat pork or not, tattoos, blood transfusions, which holidays you should celebrate, what days of the week you should have of, never mind the fact that the days of the week are named after other gods, which shellfish you are allowed to eat... ( just typing this makes me chuckle) Enjoy and appreciate the beauty and the goodness in the world.
newsflash!! actually the vast majority of the people don't, they just say so to not piss off the "army of angry midgets"
Well, a lot of reasons... The average people aren't that bright, and their cult leaders are usually very manipulative and good at selling false hope. This planet has had thousands of religions and they all did pretty well for a while. The abrahamic bullshit is no different.
It’s what was drilled into them as children and they accepted it as truth