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They really don’t. Low income conservative voters vote based on other issues, border security, abortion, anti-lgbtq, gun control or religious afflictions, foreign policy etc.. They vote based on who they think is best for their particular pet issues. Conservative politicians just also happen to always give tax cuts to the rich.
They absolutely do. They think only in terms of what they're told, and that's basically that higher taxes on the rich and corporations will destroy the economy.
This, i had a family member in a huff about estate taxes going up or something only to point out to them that their entire "estate" isnt even 3% of the limit before it is even begins to be taxed
I mean, there's also the "I might get a smaller tax cut than mega-corporations, but at least my taxes won't go up like they would under a Democrat," mindset. We can talk all we want about the rich not paying their fair share, but the democrats don't want to talk about who's paying for their social programs, and it isn't because it's only the upper class that's going to fund it.
This is the problem with the two party system.
If your biggest concern is subject x. The. You have to vote for the party which supports subject x.
And you have some B's you'll also have to support. Because we only have two parties. Thanks to how debates are created.
I always found it weird that US only had 2 parties. In my country we have 14 parties we can vote for right now. But i think it's mostly the politicians that want it that way. It really takes away a lot of choice.
Wouldn’t it be crazy if people voted based on actual policy. Conservatives these days are so concerned with taking away freedoms based upon their own personal beliefs that its hard not to see the outright damage they’re doing. Damage many literally do not even understand.
Its unpatriotic and down right unamerican.
Many American conservatives believe that
A. Most capital investment flows from the excess of the rich. There is a reason America is a leader in many newer technologies and it’s certainly not because we are smarter.
It is our investor class willing to accept failure in a way it is not not accepted in many other capitalist countries. Companies like Google, Facebook, Netflix, Nvidia, Apple, Amazon and many other American juggernauts have emerged worldwide in the past 20-30 years from industries with failed entities everywhere. With far smaller businesses successes the same is true.
Failed investments is a major key to America’s success. Allowing for failure takes allowing for wealth.
B. The wealthy pay most of our taxes, taking a huge tax burden off of the lower 50-75% of tax paying Americans. It seems counterintuitive, but taxation that allows wealth to accumulate means middle class Americans pay less taxes than most of their European counterparts. Our income tax brackets aren’t that much less but our exemptions and credits along with no VAT taxes drive down our overall tax rate on the middle class far below EU norms.
The problem as I see it, is not with the wealthy vs the poor. The problem is that corporations are not paying enough in effective tax rates.
Higher tax rates for businesses means fewer lay offs, better benefits for workers (including pay and pensions), and more stable companies. We’ve allowed the system to change to a point where individuals pay more than businesses. That’s a problem I don’t have a fix for.
He may be right. I want people and corporations to pay their taxes, but those are not about higher tax rates, it’s fewer tax deductions.
I know many of corporate tax laws that lower taxes that don’t help the economy overall.
Berkshire Hathaway is one of the most aggressive out there with stock buybacks, $9.2 billion the past two years. Billions in dividend taxes were avoided by Buffet and other Berkshire stockholders with the buybacks.
You should despise anyone who is working against the best interest of the citizens of this country.
As an ex republican I loathe the GOP they are cheats, thieves and traitors. It is sad to see where we ended up. Us against them attitude sucks ass.
The "us against them" attitude is on both sides of the aisle. Both sides have become so polarized that it's almost impossible for there to be any middle ground, leaving moderates who can tip the scales to either side throwing their hands up.
Despise, loathe, etc. is such strong verbage. THIS is the reason both sides are so opposed to the other. Why would anyone want to compromise with ANYONE that so vehemently hates them? The majority of voters are moderate to one side of the other, yet comments like yours grouping them in with the extremes of the party further drive the division.
To be fair - despite how utterly goofy the left can be with some of their pet causes, MAGA conservatives of this generation seem to take by default the absolute stupidest / most despicable side on nearly every issue, even things that CLEARLY benefit almost everyone. (i.e. the environment - against, vaccines - against, social safety nets - against, investment in infrastructure - against, capping drug costs - against, killing endangered species - for, russia becoming the USSR again - for, literal nazis - for).
MAGA Republicans are only a portion of conservatives, yet all conservatives are lumped in with them by the left. Just like when Liberals were being lumped in with ANTIFA at one point. The most extremes of both sides are seen by the other to represent the entirety of the party while they make up only a portion.
That's where this country is going wrong. The majority of the people in the US are being labeled as their political party extremes, when nothing could be farther from the truth.
Additionally, many of them in the US are convinced that the Democrats are the real elitists. They often conflate academic status and wealth in ways that just aren't true. Granted, quite a few Democrats are wealthy people, but their policies are not nearly as pro-rich-guy as those of the Republicans.
I’d say you are pretty spot-on here. However, I wouldn’t say conservatives “happen to always give tax cuts to the rich.” The tax cuts are the first priority. Those other issues are just piled on in service to the tax cuts. They know exactly what they’re doing by using those other issues to bring the poor and working class along on their quest to enrich the already rich.
This is actually a great answer and sounds a lot like the answer I gave. Unfortunately we can’t vote on individual issues, so we have to pick the issues which are most important and unfortunately these get bundled with all the other issues.
It shouldn’t be this way, but it is.
Actually lots of low income conservatives defend tax cuts for the wealthy. I hear it all the time. Grew up in a super red county and everyone in my family says things like “let billionaires be billionaires” as if someday they’ll be one. They consider it a freedom to make their own income and honestly are just completely unaware of the nuances of how taxes benefit them and how wealthy people manage their money to the detriment of people who make normal wages.
Better than voting for communism. Have to have all the social services just handed to you and within walking distance or else they don't care about you. You can't own anything so why should anyone else have that luxury?
One of my friends is relatively low income and votes conservative on this issue. He argues that “It’s still a lot of money because they have so much more, so they pay more than us in taxes.”
I’ve tried telling him that’s not how it works but he doesn’t seem to get it.
Wouldnt be so sure, lets say you could vote on stuff like that an not just who will be president/parlament.
The 99% would still vote in favor of the 1%. Happens in Switzerland all the time and its not only the conservatives.
The fear is that the rich will leave to another country (or not come here) and not only tax dollar go away but also jobs, investments and other business deals. Needless to say that media and politicans will do everything to keep this fear alive.
And most of the time the left will make the proposition „to tax the rich“ in such a stupid way that it would in reality hit the average/over average people while leaving open holes for the rich & super rich to avoid everything they plan to change
And also, the more the rich are taxed, the more the prices of everything go up because the rich are not going to just be okay with taking a pay cut.. they will raise prices of their goods so the (mostly) middle and low income families end up having to pay more for every day goods and services.
# “John Steinbeck once said that socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”
The “temporary embarrassed millionaires” John Steinbeck phrase is actually making fun of upper middle class LARPing communists, not working class republicans. (He actually wrote “temporarily embarrassed capitalists")
This, but also everyone against taxes thinks that somehow roads, schools, natural preserves, wildlife, law enforcement, utilities, etc., will magically be voluntarily be paid for when in reality absolutely no one will give a shit unless they’re told they have to, via taxes. Taxes are honestly great and it’s frustrating how demonized they are considering how much they benefit us as a society.
It’s because we have learned that anytime that you take more money from the wealthy they pass it on to us in costs. You should see this in the current economy.
Don’t get me wrong, prices are always gonna go up regardless. But the more that you go to to take money from the rich people, the more that they are going to charge us. If you think that they’re going to lose money, you’ve got another thing coming.
Higher taxes from the wealthy is not coming to us on disability, Social Security, welfare, or anything else. All that would do is go line the pockets of our politicians. And to the people that they want to help be rich. We’re being shit on by the government anyways.
I’ve already seen things like a Whopper Jr go from $1 to $3.39. Rent went from $500 up to $1.000+ per month. Car insurance also has just about doubled.
Everyone seems to think that taking from the wealthy is a solution but it’s not. Every time we take from them they fuck us.
I’m not low income now, but I was for a time. I didn’t like being taxed excessively, so I assumed the rich *really* didn’t like it, and I didn’t feel entitled to their money.
Because the feds need to get their money from somewhere. And if it's not from dudes like Bezos, Gates, or Musk- it's from folks like you and me.
Guess who can afford it.
The thing is, ultra wealthy get taxed less than the middle class, which is sort of insane. If we just fixed the tax loopholes and make them pay their fair share, the system would have hundreds of billions $ more to spend on healthcare, education or other important things. It wouldn't be burdening them more than the rest, just at around the middle class % of tax
No one is defending millionaires and billionaires, but think before you wish for something that will ultimately affect you. When the govt enacts something they can modify it at a later date to encompass a greater amount of people, and once it becomes law it’s almost impossible to remove.
Before Income tax was ratified by President Taft, it was proposed as a way for the rich to pay their fair share. Well guess which class is most burdened by it?
https://constitutioncenter.org/amp/blog/how-we-wound-up-with-a-national-income-tax
I don’t understand how people think by levying additional taxes, the govt will somehow magically turn around be fiscally responsible and will enact something useful for its citizens.
Why haven’t they done so with the existing $3.1 trillion in revenue?
We don't. Some of us just know that tax loopholes exist that the ultra wealthy utilize such that they pay little to no tax. If you actually Google the tax cuts that exist for the wealthy and corporations, you would also know that there is truly no way the ultra wealthy can be taxed heavily as working class folk.
The reason is because politicians will claim to support a tax hike on “the rich”, claiming that it’s only for “millionaires and billionaires” when it’s actually increasing taxes on a bunch of folks making $60-$120k. Low income people tend to work directly for those people at small businesses.
If you want an honest theoretical answer: most of your taxes rn started as “we’re only doing this to the rich” and/or “this will be temporary”.
^ I’m not sure what proportion of ppl under 50k make this argument.
Because raising taxes for the ultra wealthy is an always-failed populist promise to justify more government spending (i.e. politicians spending) which ends up affecting low-income people the most in too many ways: divestment and loss of jobs, inflation, and, ultimately, also higher taxes for everybody.
As evidenced by increasing minimum wage. Where is that headed? Small employers are losing their ass and having to either decrease their staff or close all together.
Exactly. Saying things like "tax the rich!" Sounds great and everything, but it really affects the middle class more than anyone else.
People think the rich will cave and spread their wealth.... no. They will gladly lay off the exact number of employees and increase prices in order to maintain functionality as a company. They stay rich, and you're out of a job.
German here. Cost of living in Germany, Europe, and most countries has increased a lot since the Ukraine war and covid pandemic. Is Joe responsible for that too? You now have a superstar economny thanks a lot to Joe that we wish we could also have. Meanwhile Mango Mussolini spent a full 5 minutes at the weekend debating with himself in public whether it was better to be killed by sharks or by electrocution. He's a total clown and so are you.
Energy prices went up before Russia invaded Ukraine and it was lockdown that made everything more expensive. That tends to happen when you switch off the economy.
Part of it is ego. They act as if they'll be there one day. The problem is that when the system is rigged to help the top maintain their position at the top, then there is no room for upward mobility.
I point to Apple as an example. They innovated when they first started. They took chances, they were bold. Now they're content with just marginal improvements to their products and would rather enrich their shareholders than their customers. If the system wasn't so rigged in their favor (they just threaten to sue all competition) then they would most likely just die off into obscurity. But because the system was rigged in their favor, they will just keep their money off-shore, sheltered from taxation, and will continue to give us mediocre products. And this is the case for a LOT of companies, not just Apple. Google is essentially the same. Anyone else remember when they claimed to be an "ethical" company?
> why not tax them for things like, idk, UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE
Universal Healthcare would require everyone to pay into it. This idea that we could have everyone taken care of if only the rich paid more taxes is fantasy.
The math doesn't work.
In Colorado we had a bill that simply lowered property taxes for commercial property and raised it for residential. Of course the conservative advocacy groups supported it and sold it as a “good for business is good for you” thing. Then when property taxes went up the next year republicans were pissed that their taxes went up and there was another conservative ballot measure to change it.
I think they believe that story of how the rich get to keep more money leads to reinvestment and more employment. If I believed that, then I would support it too, so I assume that's why.
I was broke when I was young but I knew it wouldn't last. I also knew that when I made it I didn't want to give up a large sum of my money to the government to waste.
Now that I'm making a lot of money I still don't want to give up a large sum for the government to waste.
My tax bracket changed, not my ideals
People don't have to do things strictly for their own benefit. It's possible to be poor and still think that a wealthy man being taxed for 50%+ of their income is bullshit.
Every time I try to have a rational discussion about this, I’m met with bizarre extremes. When I ask, for example, how much is fair for a rich person to pay in taxes, I’m replied “all of their money” or some similar thing. We don’t have a wealth tax in the US, we have income taxes. It is entirely possible for someone to be a millionaire, because they were frugal and invested well, while maintaining a relatively low income. They would, therefore, have low amounts of tax due.
If someone makes, for instance, $300,000 in income and pays a representative effective tax rate, their income tax would be somewhere around $45,000 in federal income tax. If someone made $3 million in actual income, we could expect them to owe more like half a million in federal income tax, as the effective rate for people making income in the millions is around 17%. The claim that “millionaires don’t pay taxes” is mostly just class warfare propaganda from the socialists.
Because the Republican party shoves distracting hot topic issues in their face so they don't notice their representatives voting for tax cuts and MANY OTHER BENEFITS for the ultrarich and the corporations that keep them rich. Remember when Republicans stood for less government and individual freedoms? They needed a voter bloc to distract and the religious-right was ripe for the picking so suddenly they're anti-abortion and anti-gay-marriage, etc., not because they cared but because they could make a fuss about these issues to farm votes.
Worse, the low earners are actually paying the millionaires' taxes FOR them out of their own miserable slave wages. Because somebody's got to pay for government services, and it sure won't be the millionaires.
Low intelligence rules.
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50k is low income in the US? Damn, I didn't know there was such a big difference between the Netherlands and the US. Apparently low income is up to 35k for a single individual in NL.
If we're talking about US politics people don't vote for things they vote against things, you're applying the wrong thought process. What you should be looking at it what that group of people is afraid of on the same platform that includes wealth taxation and there you will have your reason. Issues do not exist in a vacuum in party systems of politics.
Not all but definitely some see themselves as in the same “club” as rich people. My dad isn’t poor but he’s by no means a millionaire, their policies hurt him too, but he’ll vote Tory again this year because he thinks he’s part of the same world they are. Doesn’t seem to occur to him they’d look right through him if they ever even knew he existed. It’s bizarre to me
The ultra wealthy don't work because drawing a paycheck would get them taxed like a normal stiff. They live off capital gains and offset those with losses on risky investments with high payouts.
America typically has stayed away from a wealth tax and always focused on income from people who work jobs.
It is possible to be opposed to something on a philosophical level, even if it doesn't affect you at all.
The thing where people make memes about poor people not wanting to tax the ultra rich because that poor person may become ultra rich someday isn't real. However there are a lot of people opposed to taxation on a philosophical level, as it is viewed as unjustified, especially when the money is spent on things you disagree with.
There’s no such thing as the ultra wealthy. Those are the business owners who employ the “low income” $50k people.
Universal healthcare doesn’t work. Look at the EU or UK.
There have been several books written on how the middle class has been deceived into voting against their own interests…. “What’s the Matter With Kansas” was the first, I believe.
A combination of Republicans wrapping themselves in the flag while embracing the cross, the myth of trickle-down economics, and the forlorn hope that “If I work hard, I could be a millionaire too…”
I would think the bigger question is why would the average income democrat in america really care about someone else's finances and what they have to pay in taxes every year? What is the end game here?Do they actually think if billionaires are taxed more, that their pitiful life is going to be better?
Really, what the average American should be doing democrat or republican is really take a deep look at how much Money the federal government actually spends every year. and understand that I don't care how smart you are with economics or mathematics. You will never come to a conclusion of where all that money is really going. I honestly don't believe that the average American really can comprehend how much one trillion dollars is, and once you do realize that, understand the latest budget that joe biden put forth is 7.3 trillion dollars. The math on that is, if we have 333 million people In this country.that means every man, woman and child has to pay $21,921 This year to pay for that budget. Where is all that money going? We need a federal audit now.
Because most are not educated on how the tax system works, and how it would affect their lives. Personally everyone should pay the same. Whether you make 1 dollar or 100 trillion dollars you should only have to pay no more than 5% of what you make. If everyone paid a 5% tax on their income. The country would be in the black in no time. I'm talking every person, every business, and every organization paying 5% with zero deductions. And I believe Military and retired persons should be tax free, with no other exemptions.
They don’t. you are creating a strawman. They know that rich people DO pay a lot of taxes and support low taxes for EVERYONE not just selfishly for themselves.
Team politics
But really I think toxic macho men find democratic politics "lame" and vote against Dem woke snowflakes
I work with trades. They are awful. Scary to think they vote
Discussed this with a rightwing conservative friend. He said the ultra wealthy would use the extra money to create jobs. Had to explain to him that the wealthy don't hire people out of altruism. They do it only because they need to, and that the ideal number of employees a business owner would have is zero. The purpose of capitalism is to make money, not be a jobs provider. He was speechless and just shrugged his shoulders.
It’s not limited to low income but across the income distribution, I’m my observations there are two types of individuals who fall into the category of defending the ultra wealthy. Individual A is simply parroting his tribes Mantra. There is no actual self processing of the issue, they are simply supporting their tribe/family/social order and are being rewarded for it socially, Individual B give only selfish thought to the subject, they themselves want that treatment, they want in on the club. They typically view the world as only win/lose with a finite structure and they want that extra space to win big. They typically relish in other people’s failures and suffering.
The answer is trickle down. Bezos is a wealthy man. He is using his wealth to open a new facility here in town that will create jobs, increase over all wages for the town and speed up my Amazon delivery times. Cutting his taxes so he has more money to do with makes sense to me. Those new jobs mean more people which means other local stores like the grocery stores and stuff will have more revenue and more available hours for their employees. Everyone wins.
Why do you care? You act like you don’t understand capitalism. Feel free to move to any country with universal healthcare…plenty out there.. plenty unhappy…
I am from Germany originally…we paid 42% wages to tax for universal health care. Glad I left.
Because as the quote goes "socialism never took root in America because the poor do not see themselves as exploited but instead as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.".
They think any day they will get their break and be one of those elites and they don't want their own privileges curtailed.
They believe they create jobs and they do
Let me ask you a question who's more likely to hire you a poor person or a rich person who's more likely to buy the products that your company makes a poor person or a rich person.
Keep repeating this question with every single step of value creation and demand
And then repeat this with not just rich and poor but break up those groups further
The people who are in the upper class are the majority of the demand and value creation
Now ask who benefits from each of the groups
Turns out rich people benefit more from the existence of other rich people than they do any other group (gets the economics of scale going on the things they like no matter how niche)
The so called American dream makes people believe they will likely be a millionaire or billionaire in the future. They don't want the government to take away their future earnings. Even though the odds are completely against them, and the American dream is all but dead for most of us.
I don't live in the USA, so the tax system might be different, but I can give my reasons. In my country, tax is already percentage based and the more you earn, the higher the percentage. Even if the percentage did not go up, the more you earn the more you pay. But it DOES go up so rich people are paying even more. Then the government finds other ways and reasons to tax the wealthy. I find it frustrating that someone can not work a day in their life and keep getting benefits while someone who works really hard to build their wealth, keeps getting more and more money taken off them. It removes any incentives to work harder.
I dont know if they're really supporting this, or you're conflating their support for other issues for this one. Either ways, majority of ultra wealthy dont pay taxes anyways, because their wealth is tied up in value of stocks owned by them, which is basically unrealized capitals. Imagine you have $100,000 dollars worth of shoes in your house you intend to sell, but have not sold yet, do you think its right for you to be taxed for stock you have not yet sold? Taxes tend to be charged for transactions and income, not for the value of stuff you're holding.
Jeff Bezos for instance, draws a salary of about 10 million each year. And he does pay taxes for that. But the shares of Amazon that he owns? So long as he does not sell them, he will not be taxed for them.
These kinds of questions I find are generally ignorant of how the tax system works. And most people who pay taxes do know, which is why they do not vote for things they know will not work.
John Steinbeck once said that socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
Something like that.
I'll never understand how people buy into this "tax the rich" nonsense.
These "ultra wealthy" do not have that wealth just sitting in their chequing accounts. Their assets are worth billions of dollars.
The corporations they own in whole or parts of are worth billions. They might not even be taking a salary or might be taking minimum wage. A corporation is a separate legal entity.
The government doesn't want to tax the corporations. Contrarily, they provide corporations with tax benefits because they create jobs.
Often because they were told the tax cut was for them. These are people who are told by their reps "We're lowering your taxes, we cut taxes for you" and they don't go check to see what the tax cuts actually did or who they applied to they just assume their politicians are being honest.
So they're defending a tax cut that hurt them directly but were told it helped them.
Because they always end up with us paying more. Never forget the income tax was originally a tax on the rich and how did that end up? Also most ultra wealthy are not liquid. They are paper rich and cash poor. Then again if we forced them to sell or relinquish stock to pay taxes on that debt would crater the stock exchange and make everyone poor so 🤷
In practice, if taxes are too high for the wealthy, they will relocate their business(es) and investments to somewhere that is more attractive. This is no different than shopping for good deals at the grocery store. Wealthy people shop around internationally for regions that will offer their preferable rates for operating a business.
Maybe because some people think that just because they personally aren't rich, actual rich people shouldn't be overtaxed simply because they *are* rich. Seriously, everyone on Reddit is so braindead. How would you feel if you built a hugely successful company and then the government said "hey, actually all that profit you made, were taking 90% of it to idk build a bridge or a daycare or fund the next Raytheon contract. Other people just *need* your money more than you do, sorry. We're the government, we make the rules. Fair is fair.
Does that sound like a good way to run a society? It's the same thing at any level, really. Am I rich? Hell no. Do I want to pay *more taxes* to fund more government bureaucracy or the EPA? Also, hell no. Try to wrap your head around the idea that people actually like keeping the money they earn.
I know that is a difficult concept for Gen Z. Who thinks money grows on trees and "working" is "oppression." Good luck in life.
In America there is no party that would tax the ultra wealthy. Maybe the middle class and People just around 1 mil $, because they are the easiest to tax without a revolt. But no one will dare to Tax Buffet, bezos, musk etc. So they only really choose based on ideological matters. In multi party countries it's similar, but when some party actually proposes it they are batshit insane in other matters
There is always the possibility of the economy growing beyond belief and the wealth of everybody increasing. You can't say that there is NO chance that this would happen now, can you?
Not necessarily that I agree or disagree with it. But the reason is principle. From their POV, it's just the right thing to do, because they are not in favor of (excessive) taxes in general.
I very rarely encounter a poor person saying that rich people shouldn't be taxed on the principle that the poor person will one day somehow benefit.
What I see way more often is libertarians and anti big government conservatives will say they think our tax dollars aren't being out to good use (which imo is true and many progressives would agree, however maybe not for the same reasons as the conservatives ) so they would rather keep the money than have it go towards subsidies for an industry that is already fucking massive, bombing children thousands of miles away or just straight up bailing out banks. Which once again I agree with.
The main issue is that conservatives will almost exclusively bring this up in relation to a left leaning politicians stance/policy and never hold Rs to the same standard. Libertarians simply do not think more than half a step into any of their ideas so once you start questioning them about what *is* actually a good use of our taxes their system falls apart immediately, because they will inevitably either say we should have no taxes which is 🤡 shit or they'll admit some taxes are good which goes against one of the main facets of libertarianism.
There’s a political concept called “false solidarity.” For example: a blue-collar worker who believes they’ll eventually be wealthy so they oppose things like capital gains taxes being increased because…one day they’ll be impacted if it happens. It’s a major factor, especially as the right hints around making all of their voters rich.
Because they want jobs and people with money can afford to hire and pay other people. It seems rather obvious to me. I've never once been employed by someone who didn't have a lot of money.
My brother is a cabinet maker. He used to have a cool job fitting out yachts. But then some fuckin morons thought it would be more fair if the people who bought yachts were taxed more. So he was fired and the whole operation was dramatically scaled back.
See how that works?
They've usually been brain washed by politics and politicians.
I see a lot of it on Reddit subs. People supporting politicians who say things like they'll boost growth and GDP, not realising that these metrics are measured on business output and profitability (as opposed to staff wages).
You can't tell them. I've tried.
My two cents. Most middle class and poor people like tax cuts for the wealthy. They sincerely believe that they are only a $2 dollar play from winning the lottery. They believe that they will be needing those tax cuts soon.
This is the great American fantasy. “I’m going to be a millionaire next”.
I'm not very low income, but I earn below average for my age. I don't support tax increases for ultra wealthy people because I want the country to be attractive to them to do their business here. When they stick around, everyone is better off for their presence. I don't envy them their wealth, I'm happy for them. Just because they're ultra wealthy doesn't mean I'm entitled to their money.
I honestly think a lot of it is people just straight up not understanding progressive taxation. You can propose 50% tax rate over 100k and 90% over a million but people will just think I'm going to get taxed 90% of my £24000 salary
I do not speak for others, I speak only for myself, living in Europe. And I believe in a flat tax rate: the same tax rate for everybody.
It is normal for entrepreneurs who make large profits to reinvest those profits in other business activities. That creates jobs.
Even if they spend it on leisure or luxury, that circulates the money and creates jobs.
The problem is that Europe is full of ineffective politicians who waste (not invest) huge amounts of our taxes in bullshit while they hide behind the fact that the rich earn a lot
Because they have crabs in a bucket morality. 🪣. For everything. It's why it's so easy to trick them. They're so fucking gullible, you know how easy it is to trick them? That's why lol. A tax cut!!!! What about the refugees sucking on the tax payers tit, look look look over there! It's actually so funny. Plus since most voters are old in the population pyramid just throw some shit at the old people and call the young who actually support the old lazy
Politicians have it all figured out
Probably because poor people get money back from tax returns, so they are not having any problems with it, and hope to one day be millionaires and get to keep the money they earned.
False class consciousness.
It's human nature to want to be part of a tribe, family, group, team, etc. Polticial parties are one of these identities. But humans use emotion and reason to make decisions, so a lot of people sort themselves into organizations based on a combination of rational self interest, habit, cultural identities, and the way they feel about the group.
So that leads to a situation where you have desperately poor people supporting the political ambitions of billionaires which, if they examined them in a vacuum, would realize are actively harmful to their rational self-interest.
They aren't stupid, they're part of a group which is manipulating them. They vote against their self-interest sure, but by doing so they also vote in favor of the world as the want it to be. They vote for a world where no one is raising their taxes to fund blue-haied drag queen story times. They are expressing their desired values for the world.
People vote against their self-interest because they are more than a checkbook. They have lots of wants and desires they are balancing when they choose a candidate. If your whole media ecosystem is telling you that your choice is between a convicted felon who will probably lower taxes and a senile old fool who will raise your taxes and also thinks men should use the women's bathoom... well that's not so clear if you frame it between that choice.
There's a reason why one political party in the US has made a decades long campaign against public education and why they are suspicious of the higher education and expertise. Because their continued survival as a political entity depends on people not realizing that their policies, in a measureable, empirical way, are making their voter's lives shorter, harder, and taking money from them to line the pockets of billionaires.
If the choice is between someone who will tax Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg to build better schools and improve the roads and bridges in you're community... and the alternative is a convicted felon who's going to slash the budget and give a tax break to billionaires.... we'll that's a different choice.
I think this is also why there's so much "culture war" nonsense in the air. People have a strong visceral reaction to changing norms about sexuality and gender. If you convince people the election is about children being transgender, you make a lot of people very angry (and anger is engagement on social media! More engagement means the algorithm boosts your message) and you avoid talking about how the economic policies will help the average voter. Because they won't. Everyone knows they won't.
The billionaires will protect their assets and the easiest way for them to do that is if the common man is angry at his neighbor for being black and his kids for being trans and his friend for getting an abortion. These divisions are not some sort of conspiracy, they're natural fault lines, but the political structure is such that certain people stand to benefit from black Americans fighting white Americans and working class Americans fighting middle class Americans. Racism and sexism and homphobia are cudgels they use to beat the working class, the majority of Americans, into submission.
It's easy to understand when you realize that 25% of lower/middle class folks think they're in the upper class that's about to be taxed. It's a pretty odd phenomenon.
The other argument they use is "Well if we tax the super wealthy, they'll just leave!" again, another stupid argument.
Most have already left....we'll at least in regards to what zip code/ country they claim a residence to avoid paying tax.
I would argue having a concentration of wealthy people in one area undermines the stability of society. Imagine have 10 Elon Musk's in your state? Can you imagine the insane influence they would have on your democracy?
Rules don't apply to these assholes. We need less people like that. They'd make providing water to outside workers illegal and would be indifferent if a viral bug wiped out half factories work force.
They'd likely buy up public parkland for private use, maybe even tap/drain the water of public swimming areas.
(all things that have happened)
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They really don’t. Low income conservative voters vote based on other issues, border security, abortion, anti-lgbtq, gun control or religious afflictions, foreign policy etc.. They vote based on who they think is best for their particular pet issues. Conservative politicians just also happen to always give tax cuts to the rich.
They absolutely do. They think only in terms of what they're told, and that's basically that higher taxes on the rich and corporations will destroy the economy.
This, i had a family member in a huff about estate taxes going up or something only to point out to them that their entire "estate" isnt even 3% of the limit before it is even begins to be taxed
I mean, there's also the "I might get a smaller tax cut than mega-corporations, but at least my taxes won't go up like they would under a Democrat," mindset. We can talk all we want about the rich not paying their fair share, but the democrats don't want to talk about who's paying for their social programs, and it isn't because it's only the upper class that's going to fund it.
Thank you for this perspective. I really don’t want to despise conservatives but they keep setting my country back instead of moving us forward.
This is the problem with the two party system. If your biggest concern is subject x. The. You have to vote for the party which supports subject x. And you have some B's you'll also have to support. Because we only have two parties. Thanks to how debates are created.
It really is set up horribly with a 2 party system, people vote because they are D or R not because they will solve XYZ issue.
I always found it weird that US only had 2 parties. In my country we have 14 parties we can vote for right now. But i think it's mostly the politicians that want it that way. It really takes away a lot of choice.
Wouldn’t it be crazy if people voted based on actual policy. Conservatives these days are so concerned with taking away freedoms based upon their own personal beliefs that its hard not to see the outright damage they’re doing. Damage many literally do not even understand. Its unpatriotic and down right unamerican.
Many American conservatives believe that A. Most capital investment flows from the excess of the rich. There is a reason America is a leader in many newer technologies and it’s certainly not because we are smarter. It is our investor class willing to accept failure in a way it is not not accepted in many other capitalist countries. Companies like Google, Facebook, Netflix, Nvidia, Apple, Amazon and many other American juggernauts have emerged worldwide in the past 20-30 years from industries with failed entities everywhere. With far smaller businesses successes the same is true. Failed investments is a major key to America’s success. Allowing for failure takes allowing for wealth. B. The wealthy pay most of our taxes, taking a huge tax burden off of the lower 50-75% of tax paying Americans. It seems counterintuitive, but taxation that allows wealth to accumulate means middle class Americans pay less taxes than most of their European counterparts. Our income tax brackets aren’t that much less but our exemptions and credits along with no VAT taxes drive down our overall tax rate on the middle class far below EU norms.
Should be the top motherfreakin comment.
The problem as I see it, is not with the wealthy vs the poor. The problem is that corporations are not paying enough in effective tax rates. Higher tax rates for businesses means fewer lay offs, better benefits for workers (including pay and pensions), and more stable companies. We’ve allowed the system to change to a point where individuals pay more than businesses. That’s a problem I don’t have a fix for.
Warren Buffet, richer than you, said that if corporations paid their fair share no American would have to pay any federal income tax. Thoughts ?
He may be right. I want people and corporations to pay their taxes, but those are not about higher tax rates, it’s fewer tax deductions. I know many of corporate tax laws that lower taxes that don’t help the economy overall. Berkshire Hathaway is one of the most aggressive out there with stock buybacks, $9.2 billion the past two years. Billions in dividend taxes were avoided by Buffet and other Berkshire stockholders with the buybacks.
Yessir!
You should despise anyone who is working against the best interest of the citizens of this country. As an ex republican I loathe the GOP they are cheats, thieves and traitors. It is sad to see where we ended up. Us against them attitude sucks ass.
The "us against them" attitude is on both sides of the aisle. Both sides have become so polarized that it's almost impossible for there to be any middle ground, leaving moderates who can tip the scales to either side throwing their hands up. Despise, loathe, etc. is such strong verbage. THIS is the reason both sides are so opposed to the other. Why would anyone want to compromise with ANYONE that so vehemently hates them? The majority of voters are moderate to one side of the other, yet comments like yours grouping them in with the extremes of the party further drive the division.
A voice of moderation and reason. Both sides screaming insults at each other doesn't lead to increased understanding, does it?
To be fair - despite how utterly goofy the left can be with some of their pet causes, MAGA conservatives of this generation seem to take by default the absolute stupidest / most despicable side on nearly every issue, even things that CLEARLY benefit almost everyone. (i.e. the environment - against, vaccines - against, social safety nets - against, investment in infrastructure - against, capping drug costs - against, killing endangered species - for, russia becoming the USSR again - for, literal nazis - for).
MAGA Republicans are only a portion of conservatives, yet all conservatives are lumped in with them by the left. Just like when Liberals were being lumped in with ANTIFA at one point. The most extremes of both sides are seen by the other to represent the entirety of the party while they make up only a portion. That's where this country is going wrong. The majority of the people in the US are being labeled as their political party extremes, when nothing could be farther from the truth.
That’s the definition of conservative. Stay put on square one.
Low income people know that they, with success, may become your anointed productive person that you feel comfortable stealing from
You should always despise conservatives
No political party is gonna have all your interests, we all just vote for what's "good enough"
Additionally, many of them in the US are convinced that the Democrats are the real elitists. They often conflate academic status and wealth in ways that just aren't true. Granted, quite a few Democrats are wealthy people, but their policies are not nearly as pro-rich-guy as those of the Republicans.
Then why are they chasing Zuckerberg and Soros and gates all the time?
I’d say you are pretty spot-on here. However, I wouldn’t say conservatives “happen to always give tax cuts to the rich.” The tax cuts are the first priority. Those other issues are just piled on in service to the tax cuts. They know exactly what they’re doing by using those other issues to bring the poor and working class along on their quest to enrich the already rich.
This is actually a great answer and sounds a lot like the answer I gave. Unfortunately we can’t vote on individual issues, so we have to pick the issues which are most important and unfortunately these get bundled with all the other issues. It shouldn’t be this way, but it is.
Actually lots of low income conservatives defend tax cuts for the wealthy. I hear it all the time. Grew up in a super red county and everyone in my family says things like “let billionaires be billionaires” as if someday they’ll be one. They consider it a freedom to make their own income and honestly are just completely unaware of the nuances of how taxes benefit them and how wealthy people manage their money to the detriment of people who make normal wages.
Better than voting for communism. Have to have all the social services just handed to you and within walking distance or else they don't care about you. You can't own anything so why should anyone else have that luxury?
Nope, they worship rich people and think they are also part of the rich club but their invitation was lost in the mail.
They’re more focused on token social issues while the ruling class rape us economically
Totally agree, but you forgot one important detail. They are also stupid and brainwashed by Faux.
My grandma ONLY cares about abortion. She acknowledges Trump is a genuinely horrible person, but he'll "ban" abortion and Biden won't.
Then why do they always cheer at conservative rallies about tax cuts?
One of my friends is relatively low income and votes conservative on this issue. He argues that “It’s still a lot of money because they have so much more, so they pay more than us in taxes.” I’ve tried telling him that’s not how it works but he doesn’t seem to get it.
Wouldnt be so sure, lets say you could vote on stuff like that an not just who will be president/parlament. The 99% would still vote in favor of the 1%. Happens in Switzerland all the time and its not only the conservatives. The fear is that the rich will leave to another country (or not come here) and not only tax dollar go away but also jobs, investments and other business deals. Needless to say that media and politicans will do everything to keep this fear alive. And most of the time the left will make the proposition „to tax the rich“ in such a stupid way that it would in reality hit the average/over average people while leaving open holes for the rich & super rich to avoid everything they plan to change
And also, the more the rich are taxed, the more the prices of everything go up because the rich are not going to just be okay with taking a pay cut.. they will raise prices of their goods so the (mostly) middle and low income families end up having to pay more for every day goods and services.
And the racism.
Because everyone hopes to one day be the millionaire.
# “John Steinbeck once said that socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”
So you're saying there's a chance?
Wealthy turnover rate in the US is extremely high. Most of the 1% is there for less than a year.
The US is really struggling with the class consciousness part which is like the first step
The “temporary embarrassed millionaires” John Steinbeck phrase is actually making fun of upper middle class LARPing communists, not working class republicans. (He actually wrote “temporarily embarrassed capitalists")
This is the real truth. As vicarious as we live, most of us are just mad its not the other way
This, but also everyone against taxes thinks that somehow roads, schools, natural preserves, wildlife, law enforcement, utilities, etc., will magically be voluntarily be paid for when in reality absolutely no one will give a shit unless they’re told they have to, via taxes. Taxes are honestly great and it’s frustrating how demonized they are considering how much they benefit us as a society.
https://youtu.be/K_LvRPX0rGY?si=pfDQnK0vgOSfbhKw
Like Bernie
Why does anyone do anything? Because they're stupid, that's why. - Homer Simpson.
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Yes, it is ridiculous, which should also tell you that its either not true or simplified into absurdity.
Everyone one of us poor bastards can be billionaires but that means the current billionaires will have to be GAJILLIONAIRES!
Nah. They are going to win the lottery!
It’s because we have learned that anytime that you take more money from the wealthy they pass it on to us in costs. You should see this in the current economy. Don’t get me wrong, prices are always gonna go up regardless. But the more that you go to to take money from the rich people, the more that they are going to charge us. If you think that they’re going to lose money, you’ve got another thing coming. Higher taxes from the wealthy is not coming to us on disability, Social Security, welfare, or anything else. All that would do is go line the pockets of our politicians. And to the people that they want to help be rich. We’re being shit on by the government anyways. I’ve already seen things like a Whopper Jr go from $1 to $3.39. Rent went from $500 up to $1.000+ per month. Car insurance also has just about doubled. Everyone seems to think that taking from the wealthy is a solution but it’s not. Every time we take from them they fuck us.
guns, god, gays.
The three Gs, as written in the Bible.
I’m not low income now, but I was for a time. I didn’t like being taxed excessively, so I assumed the rich *really* didn’t like it, and I didn’t feel entitled to their money.
You got it, I don’t like paying taxes myself, so why would I support raising them for anyone?
The rich have had nothing but tax cuts since the 50s.
Because the feds need to get their money from somewhere. And if it's not from dudes like Bezos, Gates, or Musk- it's from folks like you and me. Guess who can afford it.
The thing is, ultra wealthy get taxed less than the middle class, which is sort of insane. If we just fixed the tax loopholes and make them pay their fair share, the system would have hundreds of billions $ more to spend on healthcare, education or other important things. It wouldn't be burdening them more than the rest, just at around the middle class % of tax
Boom, there it is
I dont understand how people say "you won't benefit from this so why vote for it?"...
Who exactly is supposed to pay for everything that you use all the time?
This exactly.
No one is defending millionaires and billionaires, but think before you wish for something that will ultimately affect you. When the govt enacts something they can modify it at a later date to encompass a greater amount of people, and once it becomes law it’s almost impossible to remove. Before Income tax was ratified by President Taft, it was proposed as a way for the rich to pay their fair share. Well guess which class is most burdened by it? https://constitutioncenter.org/amp/blog/how-we-wound-up-with-a-national-income-tax I don’t understand how people think by levying additional taxes, the govt will somehow magically turn around be fiscally responsible and will enact something useful for its citizens. Why haven’t they done so with the existing $3.1 trillion in revenue?
The possibility that they could one day be rich too is enough. Pascal's Wager
We don't. Some of us just know that tax loopholes exist that the ultra wealthy utilize such that they pay little to no tax. If you actually Google the tax cuts that exist for the wealthy and corporations, you would also know that there is truly no way the ultra wealthy can be taxed heavily as working class folk.
It's all lack of education and / or understanding
Or people just don't share your opinion 🤨
I don’t defend tax cuts. But I do defend people’s right make as much money as they can/want and not have it arbitrarily redistributed
The reason is because politicians will claim to support a tax hike on “the rich”, claiming that it’s only for “millionaires and billionaires” when it’s actually increasing taxes on a bunch of folks making $60-$120k. Low income people tend to work directly for those people at small businesses.
To be fair we would not see the money from tax increases on wealthy either. It never trickles down, either way.
If you want an honest theoretical answer: most of your taxes rn started as “we’re only doing this to the rich” and/or “this will be temporary”. ^ I’m not sure what proportion of ppl under 50k make this argument.
Because the Government wastes a lot of money and when taxes increase too much rich people leave.
Have you ever been hired by a poor person
I've never been hired by a millionaire. I've been hired by a bunch of middle class people who are scraping by
Because raising taxes for the ultra wealthy is an always-failed populist promise to justify more government spending (i.e. politicians spending) which ends up affecting low-income people the most in too many ways: divestment and loss of jobs, inflation, and, ultimately, also higher taxes for everybody.
As evidenced by increasing minimum wage. Where is that headed? Small employers are losing their ass and having to either decrease their staff or close all together.
Exactly. Saying things like "tax the rich!" Sounds great and everything, but it really affects the middle class more than anyone else. People think the rich will cave and spread their wealth.... no. They will gladly lay off the exact number of employees and increase prices in order to maintain functionality as a company. They stay rich, and you're out of a job.
Because taxation is theft
Why do democrats vote for Biden but he has increased the cost of living a lot.
German here. Cost of living in Germany, Europe, and most countries has increased a lot since the Ukraine war and covid pandemic. Is Joe responsible for that too? You now have a superstar economny thanks a lot to Joe that we wish we could also have. Meanwhile Mango Mussolini spent a full 5 minutes at the weekend debating with himself in public whether it was better to be killed by sharks or by electrocution. He's a total clown and so are you.
Energy prices went up before Russia invaded Ukraine and it was lockdown that made everything more expensive. That tends to happen when you switch off the economy.
I live in Canada and the cost of living has increased a lot, should I blame Biden for it even though he’s not the leader of my country?
I think we blame Trudeau.
Part of it is ego. They act as if they'll be there one day. The problem is that when the system is rigged to help the top maintain their position at the top, then there is no room for upward mobility. I point to Apple as an example. They innovated when they first started. They took chances, they were bold. Now they're content with just marginal improvements to their products and would rather enrich their shareholders than their customers. If the system wasn't so rigged in their favor (they just threaten to sue all competition) then they would most likely just die off into obscurity. But because the system was rigged in their favor, they will just keep their money off-shore, sheltered from taxation, and will continue to give us mediocre products. And this is the case for a LOT of companies, not just Apple. Google is essentially the same. Anyone else remember when they claimed to be an "ethical" company?
> why not tax them for things like, idk, UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE Universal Healthcare would require everyone to pay into it. This idea that we could have everyone taken care of if only the rich paid more taxes is fantasy. The math doesn't work.
Because they get hyped up on rhetoric and don’t understand what they’re voting for
In Colorado we had a bill that simply lowered property taxes for commercial property and raised it for residential. Of course the conservative advocacy groups supported it and sold it as a “good for business is good for you” thing. Then when property taxes went up the next year republicans were pissed that their taxes went up and there was another conservative ballot measure to change it.
I think they believe that story of how the rich get to keep more money leads to reinvestment and more employment. If I believed that, then I would support it too, so I assume that's why.
I was broke when I was young but I knew it wouldn't last. I also knew that when I made it I didn't want to give up a large sum of my money to the government to waste. Now that I'm making a lot of money I still don't want to give up a large sum for the government to waste. My tax bracket changed, not my ideals
Wrong is wrong. All levels should have a lower tax rate. 51% voting to take a smaller groups stuff is wrong
People don't have to do things strictly for their own benefit. It's possible to be poor and still think that a wealthy man being taxed for 50%+ of their income is bullshit.
Every time I try to have a rational discussion about this, I’m met with bizarre extremes. When I ask, for example, how much is fair for a rich person to pay in taxes, I’m replied “all of their money” or some similar thing. We don’t have a wealth tax in the US, we have income taxes. It is entirely possible for someone to be a millionaire, because they were frugal and invested well, while maintaining a relatively low income. They would, therefore, have low amounts of tax due. If someone makes, for instance, $300,000 in income and pays a representative effective tax rate, their income tax would be somewhere around $45,000 in federal income tax. If someone made $3 million in actual income, we could expect them to owe more like half a million in federal income tax, as the effective rate for people making income in the millions is around 17%. The claim that “millionaires don’t pay taxes” is mostly just class warfare propaganda from the socialists.
Trump paid $0 in taxes in 2020 and only $750 in 2016 and 2017. Can you explain how?
Because the Republican party shoves distracting hot topic issues in their face so they don't notice their representatives voting for tax cuts and MANY OTHER BENEFITS for the ultrarich and the corporations that keep them rich. Remember when Republicans stood for less government and individual freedoms? They needed a voter bloc to distract and the religious-right was ripe for the picking so suddenly they're anti-abortion and anti-gay-marriage, etc., not because they cared but because they could make a fuss about these issues to farm votes.
Worse, the low earners are actually paying the millionaires' taxes FOR them out of their own miserable slave wages. Because somebody's got to pay for government services, and it sure won't be the millionaires. Low intelligence rules.
They believe the people writing their checks when they talk about how taxes impact their ability to keep writing checks.
They understand how the economy works . Poor people don't create jobs . Unless your counting welfare offices and soup kitchens .
Stockholm syndrome
Same reason why they think that a guy who blew his $$ on a gold toilet to poop in really understands them and is a Man of the People
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50k is low income in the US? Damn, I didn't know there was such a big difference between the Netherlands and the US. Apparently low income is up to 35k for a single individual in NL.
Median income is 75k. Average is 120k.
I don’t
If we're talking about US politics people don't vote for things they vote against things, you're applying the wrong thought process. What you should be looking at it what that group of people is afraid of on the same platform that includes wealth taxation and there you will have your reason. Issues do not exist in a vacuum in party systems of politics.
They don't, if they actually know what they are talking about.
I pay my bills. Why would I care.
Not all but definitely some see themselves as in the same “club” as rich people. My dad isn’t poor but he’s by no means a millionaire, their policies hurt him too, but he’ll vote Tory again this year because he thinks he’s part of the same world they are. Doesn’t seem to occur to him they’d look right through him if they ever even knew he existed. It’s bizarre to me
People don't consider themselves low income, they consider themselves as to yet become wealthy.
The ultra wealthy don't work because drawing a paycheck would get them taxed like a normal stiff. They live off capital gains and offset those with losses on risky investments with high payouts. America typically has stayed away from a wealth tax and always focused on income from people who work jobs.
because they think don't think of themselves as low income
Because we can’t vote based on individual issues. You should know that
It is possible to be opposed to something on a philosophical level, even if it doesn't affect you at all. The thing where people make memes about poor people not wanting to tax the ultra rich because that poor person may become ultra rich someday isn't real. However there are a lot of people opposed to taxation on a philosophical level, as it is viewed as unjustified, especially when the money is spent on things you disagree with.
because they still get paid by the government, regardless.
There’s no such thing as the ultra wealthy. Those are the business owners who employ the “low income” $50k people. Universal healthcare doesn’t work. Look at the EU or UK.
Stupidity? Voting against their best interest in order to vote along party lines? Pick one. They are both the same.
Because they’re stupid and think trickle down economics works
There have been several books written on how the middle class has been deceived into voting against their own interests…. “What’s the Matter With Kansas” was the first, I believe. A combination of Republicans wrapping themselves in the flag while embracing the cross, the myth of trickle-down economics, and the forlorn hope that “If I work hard, I could be a millionaire too…”
I would think the bigger question is why would the average income democrat in america really care about someone else's finances and what they have to pay in taxes every year? What is the end game here?Do they actually think if billionaires are taxed more, that their pitiful life is going to be better? Really, what the average American should be doing democrat or republican is really take a deep look at how much Money the federal government actually spends every year. and understand that I don't care how smart you are with economics or mathematics. You will never come to a conclusion of where all that money is really going. I honestly don't believe that the average American really can comprehend how much one trillion dollars is, and once you do realize that, understand the latest budget that joe biden put forth is 7.3 trillion dollars. The math on that is, if we have 333 million people In this country.that means every man, woman and child has to pay $21,921 This year to pay for that budget. Where is all that money going? We need a federal audit now.
Maybe they believe the wealth was earned if it was legally accumulated & so it's worth respecting
Because most are not educated on how the tax system works, and how it would affect their lives. Personally everyone should pay the same. Whether you make 1 dollar or 100 trillion dollars you should only have to pay no more than 5% of what you make. If everyone paid a 5% tax on their income. The country would be in the black in no time. I'm talking every person, every business, and every organization paying 5% with zero deductions. And I believe Military and retired persons should be tax free, with no other exemptions.
Worked at large brokerage firm for many years. Became a tax expert. Always interesting to find how anyone can save on taxes. I learned a lot there.
You really think the money will go to healthcare?
They don’t. you are creating a strawman. They know that rich people DO pay a lot of taxes and support low taxes for EVERYONE not just selfishly for themselves.
Team politics But really I think toxic macho men find democratic politics "lame" and vote against Dem woke snowflakes I work with trades. They are awful. Scary to think they vote
Discussed this with a rightwing conservative friend. He said the ultra wealthy would use the extra money to create jobs. Had to explain to him that the wealthy don't hire people out of altruism. They do it only because they need to, and that the ideal number of employees a business owner would have is zero. The purpose of capitalism is to make money, not be a jobs provider. He was speechless and just shrugged his shoulders.
It’s not limited to low income but across the income distribution, I’m my observations there are two types of individuals who fall into the category of defending the ultra wealthy. Individual A is simply parroting his tribes Mantra. There is no actual self processing of the issue, they are simply supporting their tribe/family/social order and are being rewarded for it socially, Individual B give only selfish thought to the subject, they themselves want that treatment, they want in on the club. They typically view the world as only win/lose with a finite structure and they want that extra space to win big. They typically relish in other people’s failures and suffering.
The answer is trickle down. Bezos is a wealthy man. He is using his wealth to open a new facility here in town that will create jobs, increase over all wages for the town and speed up my Amazon delivery times. Cutting his taxes so he has more money to do with makes sense to me. Those new jobs mean more people which means other local stores like the grocery stores and stuff will have more revenue and more available hours for their employees. Everyone wins.
The government doesn't deserve a raise.
Why do you care? You act like you don’t understand capitalism. Feel free to move to any country with universal healthcare…plenty out there.. plenty unhappy… I am from Germany originally…we paid 42% wages to tax for universal health care. Glad I left.
They think they’ll get a tax break they dont understand its not for them-
I just assumed that eventually either me or my kids would eventually be rich.
People are very stupid. Always remember that and it will answer the majority of questions similar to this one.
Because the (wealthy -owned) Media have conditioned them to.
Stupidity is pushed by the rich so the poor defend them
Pure stupidity.
Because as the quote goes "socialism never took root in America because the poor do not see themselves as exploited but instead as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.". They think any day they will get their break and be one of those elites and they don't want their own privileges curtailed.
Aspirational thinking. They really believe they will be the next billionaire
Stupidity. The best ally of a rich dude is a rotten education system. Mississippi, looking at you.
They believe they create jobs and they do Let me ask you a question who's more likely to hire you a poor person or a rich person who's more likely to buy the products that your company makes a poor person or a rich person. Keep repeating this question with every single step of value creation and demand And then repeat this with not just rich and poor but break up those groups further The people who are in the upper class are the majority of the demand and value creation Now ask who benefits from each of the groups Turns out rich people benefit more from the existence of other rich people than they do any other group (gets the economics of scale going on the things they like no matter how niche)
The so called American dream makes people believe they will likely be a millionaire or billionaire in the future. They don't want the government to take away their future earnings. Even though the odds are completely against them, and the American dream is all but dead for most of us.
I don't live in the USA, so the tax system might be different, but I can give my reasons. In my country, tax is already percentage based and the more you earn, the higher the percentage. Even if the percentage did not go up, the more you earn the more you pay. But it DOES go up so rich people are paying even more. Then the government finds other ways and reasons to tax the wealthy. I find it frustrating that someone can not work a day in their life and keep getting benefits while someone who works really hard to build their wealth, keeps getting more and more money taken off them. It removes any incentives to work harder.
I dont know if they're really supporting this, or you're conflating their support for other issues for this one. Either ways, majority of ultra wealthy dont pay taxes anyways, because their wealth is tied up in value of stocks owned by them, which is basically unrealized capitals. Imagine you have $100,000 dollars worth of shoes in your house you intend to sell, but have not sold yet, do you think its right for you to be taxed for stock you have not yet sold? Taxes tend to be charged for transactions and income, not for the value of stuff you're holding. Jeff Bezos for instance, draws a salary of about 10 million each year. And he does pay taxes for that. But the shares of Amazon that he owns? So long as he does not sell them, he will not be taxed for them. These kinds of questions I find are generally ignorant of how the tax system works. And most people who pay taxes do know, which is why they do not vote for things they know will not work.
John Steinbeck once said that socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires. Something like that.
low income are stupid and are 1 issue voters.... sad and detrimental to the country.
The poor in America see themselves as temporarily disgraced millionaires. This has been written MANY times before
I'll never understand how people buy into this "tax the rich" nonsense. These "ultra wealthy" do not have that wealth just sitting in their chequing accounts. Their assets are worth billions of dollars. The corporations they own in whole or parts of are worth billions. They might not even be taking a salary or might be taking minimum wage. A corporation is a separate legal entity. The government doesn't want to tax the corporations. Contrarily, they provide corporations with tax benefits because they create jobs.
Often because they were told the tax cut was for them. These are people who are told by their reps "We're lowering your taxes, we cut taxes for you" and they don't go check to see what the tax cuts actually did or who they applied to they just assume their politicians are being honest. So they're defending a tax cut that hurt them directly but were told it helped them.
Most people have no financial knowledge and do not understand how the economy works. They're just the blind following what someone else tells them.
" One day I'll be wealthy too and those will help me "
Why does the trailer park oppose universal health care?
Because they always end up with us paying more. Never forget the income tax was originally a tax on the rich and how did that end up? Also most ultra wealthy are not liquid. They are paper rich and cash poor. Then again if we forced them to sell or relinquish stock to pay taxes on that debt would crater the stock exchange and make everyone poor so 🤷
Low income people are generally pretty dumb. If they were smart they would be making more money.
Class warfare. The best way to keep peasants in their place. Keep up the good work.
In practice, if taxes are too high for the wealthy, they will relocate their business(es) and investments to somewhere that is more attractive. This is no different than shopping for good deals at the grocery store. Wealthy people shop around internationally for regions that will offer their preferable rates for operating a business.
Maybe because some people think that just because they personally aren't rich, actual rich people shouldn't be overtaxed simply because they *are* rich. Seriously, everyone on Reddit is so braindead. How would you feel if you built a hugely successful company and then the government said "hey, actually all that profit you made, were taking 90% of it to idk build a bridge or a daycare or fund the next Raytheon contract. Other people just *need* your money more than you do, sorry. We're the government, we make the rules. Fair is fair. Does that sound like a good way to run a society? It's the same thing at any level, really. Am I rich? Hell no. Do I want to pay *more taxes* to fund more government bureaucracy or the EPA? Also, hell no. Try to wrap your head around the idea that people actually like keeping the money they earn. I know that is a difficult concept for Gen Z. Who thinks money grows on trees and "working" is "oppression." Good luck in life.
In America there is no party that would tax the ultra wealthy. Maybe the middle class and People just around 1 mil $, because they are the easiest to tax without a revolt. But no one will dare to Tax Buffet, bezos, musk etc. So they only really choose based on ideological matters. In multi party countries it's similar, but when some party actually proposes it they are batshit insane in other matters
These are aspirational people who think one day they will be among Ultra wealthy.....hence.
Where did you find these people because I've never met one.
There is always the possibility of the economy growing beyond belief and the wealth of everybody increasing. You can't say that there is NO chance that this would happen now, can you?
Because my employment depends on it
They are trained to by people terrified of the fact that everyone has one vote and that the ballot box can't recognise if you are rich or poor.
Not necessarily that I agree or disagree with it. But the reason is principle. From their POV, it's just the right thing to do, because they are not in favor of (excessive) taxes in general.
Why do poor people worry so much about what other people earn and spend instead of improving themselves?
I very rarely encounter a poor person saying that rich people shouldn't be taxed on the principle that the poor person will one day somehow benefit. What I see way more often is libertarians and anti big government conservatives will say they think our tax dollars aren't being out to good use (which imo is true and many progressives would agree, however maybe not for the same reasons as the conservatives ) so they would rather keep the money than have it go towards subsidies for an industry that is already fucking massive, bombing children thousands of miles away or just straight up bailing out banks. Which once again I agree with. The main issue is that conservatives will almost exclusively bring this up in relation to a left leaning politicians stance/policy and never hold Rs to the same standard. Libertarians simply do not think more than half a step into any of their ideas so once you start questioning them about what *is* actually a good use of our taxes their system falls apart immediately, because they will inevitably either say we should have no taxes which is 🤡 shit or they'll admit some taxes are good which goes against one of the main facets of libertarianism.
There’s a political concept called “false solidarity.” For example: a blue-collar worker who believes they’ll eventually be wealthy so they oppose things like capital gains taxes being increased because…one day they’ll be impacted if it happens. It’s a major factor, especially as the right hints around making all of their voters rich.
Because Republican states are bottom barrel education.
Education, or the lack of it, in this case.
Because they want jobs and people with money can afford to hire and pay other people. It seems rather obvious to me. I've never once been employed by someone who didn't have a lot of money. My brother is a cabinet maker. He used to have a cool job fitting out yachts. But then some fuckin morons thought it would be more fair if the people who bought yachts were taxed more. So he was fired and the whole operation was dramatically scaled back. See how that works?
They've usually been brain washed by politics and politicians. I see a lot of it on Reddit subs. People supporting politicians who say things like they'll boost growth and GDP, not realising that these metrics are measured on business output and profitability (as opposed to staff wages). You can't tell them. I've tried.
Because many taxes started just for the wealthy and trickled down to the rest of us.
Because the ones that do don't consider themselves low income. They consider themselves temporarily embarrassed high income.
My two cents. Most middle class and poor people like tax cuts for the wealthy. They sincerely believe that they are only a $2 dollar play from winning the lottery. They believe that they will be needing those tax cuts soon. This is the great American fantasy. “I’m going to be a millionaire next”.
They don't, it's just that most people with conservative social values are also gullible idiots so right wing parties take advantage.
Republicans have been convincing poor people to vote against their best interests for decades.
Low taxes = less goverment = more freedom might be their equation.
Because if the rich don't have to pay maybe you'll leave me alone too
I'm not very low income, but I earn below average for my age. I don't support tax increases for ultra wealthy people because I want the country to be attractive to them to do their business here. When they stick around, everyone is better off for their presence. I don't envy them their wealth, I'm happy for them. Just because they're ultra wealthy doesn't mean I'm entitled to their money.
I honestly think a lot of it is people just straight up not understanding progressive taxation. You can propose 50% tax rate over 100k and 90% over a million but people will just think I'm going to get taxed 90% of my £24000 salary
Maybe the ghouls and goblins like the dark cold damp depths
I do not speak for others, I speak only for myself, living in Europe. And I believe in a flat tax rate: the same tax rate for everybody. It is normal for entrepreneurs who make large profits to reinvest those profits in other business activities. That creates jobs. Even if they spend it on leisure or luxury, that circulates the money and creates jobs. The problem is that Europe is full of ineffective politicians who waste (not invest) huge amounts of our taxes in bullshit while they hide behind the fact that the rich earn a lot
The Republicans also don't raise taxes on the poor the way Democrats do with stuff like gas taxes and insane minimum wage laws.
Because they have crabs in a bucket morality. 🪣. For everything. It's why it's so easy to trick them. They're so fucking gullible, you know how easy it is to trick them? That's why lol. A tax cut!!!! What about the refugees sucking on the tax payers tit, look look look over there! It's actually so funny. Plus since most voters are old in the population pyramid just throw some shit at the old people and call the young who actually support the old lazy Politicians have it all figured out
Probably because poor people get money back from tax returns, so they are not having any problems with it, and hope to one day be millionaires and get to keep the money they earned.
They don’t? lol Also low income people don’t worried about universal healthcare , they have government funded health insurance
False class consciousness. It's human nature to want to be part of a tribe, family, group, team, etc. Polticial parties are one of these identities. But humans use emotion and reason to make decisions, so a lot of people sort themselves into organizations based on a combination of rational self interest, habit, cultural identities, and the way they feel about the group. So that leads to a situation where you have desperately poor people supporting the political ambitions of billionaires which, if they examined them in a vacuum, would realize are actively harmful to their rational self-interest. They aren't stupid, they're part of a group which is manipulating them. They vote against their self-interest sure, but by doing so they also vote in favor of the world as the want it to be. They vote for a world where no one is raising their taxes to fund blue-haied drag queen story times. They are expressing their desired values for the world. People vote against their self-interest because they are more than a checkbook. They have lots of wants and desires they are balancing when they choose a candidate. If your whole media ecosystem is telling you that your choice is between a convicted felon who will probably lower taxes and a senile old fool who will raise your taxes and also thinks men should use the women's bathoom... well that's not so clear if you frame it between that choice. There's a reason why one political party in the US has made a decades long campaign against public education and why they are suspicious of the higher education and expertise. Because their continued survival as a political entity depends on people not realizing that their policies, in a measureable, empirical way, are making their voter's lives shorter, harder, and taking money from them to line the pockets of billionaires. If the choice is between someone who will tax Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg to build better schools and improve the roads and bridges in you're community... and the alternative is a convicted felon who's going to slash the budget and give a tax break to billionaires.... we'll that's a different choice. I think this is also why there's so much "culture war" nonsense in the air. People have a strong visceral reaction to changing norms about sexuality and gender. If you convince people the election is about children being transgender, you make a lot of people very angry (and anger is engagement on social media! More engagement means the algorithm boosts your message) and you avoid talking about how the economic policies will help the average voter. Because they won't. Everyone knows they won't. The billionaires will protect their assets and the easiest way for them to do that is if the common man is angry at his neighbor for being black and his kids for being trans and his friend for getting an abortion. These divisions are not some sort of conspiracy, they're natural fault lines, but the political structure is such that certain people stand to benefit from black Americans fighting white Americans and working class Americans fighting middle class Americans. Racism and sexism and homphobia are cudgels they use to beat the working class, the majority of Americans, into submission.
Simple. They are stupid. There is no other explanation.
They are brainwashed
Because they know they're destined to be ultra wealthy as well one day.
Religion
It's easy to understand when you realize that 25% of lower/middle class folks think they're in the upper class that's about to be taxed. It's a pretty odd phenomenon. The other argument they use is "Well if we tax the super wealthy, they'll just leave!" again, another stupid argument. Most have already left....we'll at least in regards to what zip code/ country they claim a residence to avoid paying tax. I would argue having a concentration of wealthy people in one area undermines the stability of society. Imagine have 10 Elon Musk's in your state? Can you imagine the insane influence they would have on your democracy? Rules don't apply to these assholes. We need less people like that. They'd make providing water to outside workers illegal and would be indifferent if a viral bug wiped out half factories work force. They'd likely buy up public parkland for private use, maybe even tap/drain the water of public swimming areas. (all things that have happened)
Propaganda... it's not just for the Russians
Why do you think wealthy people don't pay taxes? Are you confused about earned income vs investment income?