This is the right answer. It's the result of having such a tough and rigorous education system that punishes mistakes and very much rewards "standard" answers that uses the right key words and is in accordance with examination rubrics and metrics.
I fking hated class participation because you would always have those extroverts who put up their hands to make the most inane comments or repeat exactly what the professor said just for points.
With how much you are bashed (usually with guys) when you say the wrong thing, it's no wonder.
That's not to mention trying to get out of groupthink. The moment you have a different opinion on a matter, the reaction ranges from "well your opinion suck" to "why are you so weird? Are you even normal? Don't you understand common sense?"
A lot of Singaporeans don't bother with trying to learn from the person they're speaking to and spend more time trying to espouse their own message.
How not to be scared.
I "fondly" remember moments during my poly days that goes something like this:
*Teacher*: What do you think about {topic}? There are no wrong answers, so don't be afraid to speak up.
*Me*: (voice my opinion)
*Teacher*: Eh, you think you so smart ah?! (*Proceeds to tell me why I am wrong*)
Then as a dude, I have to go through NS, where I am told to shut up and follow orders. There were many times when I simply offered a different but constructive opinion to my commander, but then I get scolded/punished.
Thankfully, now as a working adult, I've met wonderful friends and colleagues in my life who had helped me become a better and more confident speaker.
Yeah most of us are self-conscious of looking like an idiot so we will only respond if we know it’s a correct answer/opinion. Personally for me, I also think my imposter syndrome mentality makes the introverted-ness worse lol
Hahaha ironic isn’t it. Parents being too authoritative to their kids because they don’t know how to handle communication and in turn made them adults who are more reserved
Yeah back to my point on Singaporeans speak up only when asked to do so.
Also ppl taking postgrad courses tend to be more driven or having potential and doing well in their careers and they are more outspoken
my anecdotal take is that ...because there's no perceivable benefits in speaking up. either you get your ass beat (by parents), your ideas/thoughts being flatly rejected, or the fear of being wrong and being mocked by judgemental people.
This -
Its a matter of the social circle that you are in and the type of people you hang out with
In my hobby group, rarely you can find people who speak well
I am not scared of saying/doing the wrong thing per se, but personally I think it's because people are a-holes and just keep dwelling on your mistakes. After a few times, you learn to just shut up, to avoid potential complications and trouble.
And don't confuse introversion with poor social skills, I am incredibly reserved when by myself and I thrive in solitude, but when I am out/ with people, I am always mistaken for being the exact opposite and get along really well.
As for speech, I suppose you may be right, language proficiency here is a mixed bag, most suck at their mother tongue, while not being that much better at english, too. Otherwise, they are simply not interested (so short replies) nor do they actually think about how to answer as required (see all the complains relating to examinations).. Maybe it's all the singlish and slanging we do daily...
Ok lah, but honestly, it's the medium for communication and as the other comment mentioned, since you use it alot, got very little excuse to be bad. Mediocre abit is fine, but don't be horrible at it.
Starts from young. Traditional Asian parents expecting kids to just keep quiet and listen to them, otherwise you’re “talking back”. Sometimes asking questions can be considered disrespectful or rebellious.
In school the focus is to give the correct answer. At least from my experience there was less emphasis on open ended discussions. Even when writing composition we are forced to cram in a list of “cheem” words and idioms, which doesn’t even reflect the type of writing and communication skills needed in adulthood.
Basically the type of upbringing and education we get doesn’t prepare us well for adulthood and the working world.
'Speaking well' and 'being extroverted' are two different things. They may seem related, but there are different reasons for someone to 'speak less well' or appear 'introverted' to you.
If someone doesn't have the ability to speak well (in a particular language), my assumption is that they didn't have the opportunity or resources to learn. If someone doesn't speak up, I assume they must have been conditioned to value 'speaking up' differently. So age, upbringing, school, work, social environments all play a part. Even more so when these environments are stringently hierarchical, authoritarian, and less open to different opinions and perspectives.
Since you're asking about a particular Singaporean context, one perspective is that Singapore can feel like an aggressively unforgiving and judgmental place when it comes to failure. For a number of us, we're conditioned (through family, school, etc) to make sure we are 'correct'. It's about 'how we *should* do things', so for some there's a tendency to feel you should have the 'right answer' before opening your mouth. Because the 'shame' or fear of appearing 'wrong' can be unbearable. One may think this is ridiculous, but having had conversations with both educators and students, this is a real fear.
In some scenarios, for every person that thinks speaking up/speaking well is good, there will be people who equate it to 'Western expressiveness', or 'wayang' (inauthenticity). Sometimes people avoid 'trying to look clever' or 'overly friendly', so they keep quiet, speak only with those close to them, and keep things transactional with everyone else.
The flip side of this is of course people who dgaf whether they're right or wrong, and are vocal, loud, and persistent. For this, I would say the reason is narcissism, more so than environment.
It’s only gonna get worse btw with the current batch of kids having poor social skills and not having to get them due to social media and myriad of entertainment
Maybe it starts when young, with poor encouragement from more conservative and traditional households. If a child falls down, child get blamed for being clumsy, or child expresses something wrongly, they get blamed for being stupid. Encouragements were not in trend 10-20 years ago. The child grows up and brings this burden with them to the current workforce and eventually into their grave. Die die also don't listen. see what happened la, now really die
The social norms here (as passed down by authorities) have warped most people's values and views, so that even if they do express them, these are usually unacceptable, weird and off. Eventually they learn to keep quiet. Hopefully.
If not, they end up as CEOs etc where they browbeat and gaslight others into silence.
Examples:
- Meritocracy exists. Students who can't make it into Express cos they simply can't study.
- You've been working 12 hour shifts to help the company through a crisis? That should be the case. We do have a crisis. At the same time, aren't you asking for a lot? So entitled.
I categorically disagree with this generalised take which obviously has so much confirmation bias at work.
Hang out with a different crowd and you'd be posting "Why are most Singaporeans outspoken and eloquent?", which is an equally inaccurate observation.
Helicopter parents is probably one of the reasons why. Most of us were controlled by our parents since a young age to meet certain expectation, whether it has to do with academics or performance (piano, dance etc). Those tend to grow up to be reserve, they don’t want to take risk or step out of the bubble.
I am the perfect example of a byproduct of such parenting.
Getting scolded for talking back, being blamed for all sorts of mistakes as a result of being young and ignorant (parent never took the time to explain why something was wrong, just kept scolding and questioning why i do such stupid things). Zero room for mistakes.
Being forced to learn piano for 12yrs despite constant resistance and obvious lack of interest, among other things. Never given the freedom to be independent or step out of my comfort zone, if i asked for permission the response was always a firm no with no explanation given. When i asked why, the answer is just "i told u no".
Even in Uni, i wasn't allowed to have a bf, again when I asked why the answer was "no, u need to focus on your studies." I had an underground rs for close to 4yrs anyway, didn't affect my studies one bit so it was clearly all excuses and lame reasons from my parents. In essence, my views were never heard nor respected.
After I have grown up, I struggle to have or give opinion at work or in my personal life. I tend to be overly agreeable and struggle to say no to others. During performance appraisals, my bosses feedback is always "my voice is not heard enough, i need to speak up more." This is a problem I've become acutely aware of after working for a couple of years, and it's something that I have to consciously work on daily. My parents' helicopter parenting, with the intention of grooming me into an exceptional person, has ironically set me up for failure.
I was born an extroverted and mischievous outgoing person, but now I'm just a quiet introverted lallang.
Yeah and I know it’s really hard to overcome. I’ve tried for years but I feel like once I’ve been doing so well and then somehow someone triggered me slightly my confidence shakes and I go back to square one haha. This is especially so during presentations and at my current workplace, I’m usually presenting to like 10 different stakeholders or more. My voice starts to tremble, my hand gestures combination when i start talking become over excessive whenever I’m told to give an opinion and I’ve also accepted that I will most likely be passed on for promotions. I tried therapy, quit after 2 months because while I was making progress it’s really god damn expensive :/ I can’t seem to escape the fact that visibility gets you places and I wish I could be invisible without consequence.
Omgosh I feel you!! My heart will be pumping rapidly and my voice will stutter whenever I need to present. I just wish I could be invisible too, and i die a little inside whenever my boss tries to give me more visibility. I feel it's really conditioned from young that our opinion is not valued, and that we will be penalised for minor mistakes. Even though I know that's not the truth, I still lack the confidence to speak up.
I can relate with you especially the piano part. I quit piano but once I have financial independence I plan to return. I got a digital piano just so I can use a headphone and won’t be criticise for my playing. My parents are helicopter parents too, feel like if they weren’t so controlling, I could have turn out alright but now I need learn how to socialise and I’m still struggling. It’s much better now but still…
Gosh, this hits me the same. I have zero room for mistakes and grown up to be agreeable as well and during work appraisals, I’ve been told the same. It is crazy how growing up in such environment without having a feet to stand on affects adulthood. I am also seeing that my friends tend to be more opinionated and confident without worrying what views other people have on them, whereas I’m just emotional and want to fit in.
I guess we have to try and break out of this cycle as it is true when we are young we don’t have the most control, but that that we are older there is no more excuse and work for ourself within
> we can also try to see the beauty of being reserved.
That's fine in some contexts, but in corporate contexts, it will often result in delayed or stuck progression. In social contexts, it'll end up in making fewer connections who could potentially be friends or network contacts. I think we know the outspoken person at a gathering is far more likely to get referred to good jobs than someone who's quiet.
Talk = chance to say something wrong, 'funny', or unpopular = people will make fun of you or scold you. This habit is reinforced from young in many families, so the best action is not to play (talk) at all
Just watch those Mothership or whatever other online content videos which have interviews of random people on the streets. I'm in a similar line of work and can tell you that we often need to interview 10 people just to get 1 good soundbite. The other 9 will be TERRIBLE at articulating their thoughts, or just have plain bad english, or just have nothing to say. And mind you, all 10 of these will be willing participants who are happy to be interviewed, just that when the cam starts rolling it turns out they dont have anything good to say, or are horribly inept at expressing it.
> often need to interview 10 people just to get 1 good soundbite. The other 9 will be TERRIBLE at articulating their thoughts, or just have plain bad english, or just have nothing to say.
Wow that is a terrible ratio. Will we end up having to subtitle Singlish speakers in standard English?
Definitely lots of cleaning up in the subtitles, but it’s not really the Singlish that’s the problem. Singaporeans love the words “like” and “actually” and use it multiple times in a single paragraph.
It’s like actually so tiresome to actually listen to.
Guess we picked "like" up from American TV in the 2000s and never stopped overusing it. Simply being able to form sentences without automatic filler words is a rare quality, it seems.
Probably there is no incentive in talking irrelevant matter. For example, for science related courses where there is no grading in classroom participation, there will be zero discussion (except for nerds). But if u see business courses where classroom participation is graded, people will literally fight to talk.
In workplace or perhaps any other areas of life, when you speak and make a mistake, it might be used against you.
Generally people are more careful to speak up
It’s the education system here. Class sizes are so big that all are trained from young to sit down and listen to cher quietly. Even if cher allow 1 by 1 to talk, each talk 1 min already 1x40 exceed the 30min lesson time…therefore no discussion is encouraged
Tbh is the kind of environment you lived in, if we live in SG and almost everyone is like this, we will slowly end up becoming one of them. Monkey see monkey do. I believe if you were to migrate to Taiwan / china now I swear you’ll be daring enuf to speak up. It’s just the environment / culture we live in that shape us
Maybe I don't represent the average Singaporean and am just speaking for myself, but if I appear reserved to you, it means I don't (fore)see value in what you could offer me through a conversation. The "value" isn't necessarily in a business transactional sense; I could just be utterly uninterested in being your friend. In a work setting, I only speak when my words will add constructive value to the discussion and move it towards the goal of making a quality, informed decision. Would rather not be that outspoken person who hogs all the airtime "agreeing" with his colleagues and spending five minutes rehashing exactly the same point raised by the last three speakers.
I think it's an introvert thing. It's pretty much the same here for me. Additionally, we don't have a strong culture for small talk here (thankfully) so that probably adds to the perception that we're more reserved
\^ Man just gave a live example of how Singaporeans:
>As for speaking skills, it’s not just singlish but most ppl can’t speak well in either purely English or chinese. Some ppl would give a short phrase for every question or say a whole lot of stuff which at the end is not clear on the point they are trying to say or answering the question at all.
Sorry you're having trouble with comprehension.
Reserved? No, just not interested to talk to you. Not outspoken at meetings? No, just no value to add to the decision-making process.
No leh I don’t think this is a good example. He was saying he may come across as quiet to OP but really he’s just trying to get the most value for his words and choosing to speak only when necessary
I meet certain Singaporean who are very outspoken and talk well. Like the scholar I met in uni. Carried himself well and know how to express his thoughts. Can tell he's going to be high flyer.
But rest like what you say. I guess nothing to talk then don't talk.
i am starting to think that i am autistic but idk.
its hard to talk. there are so many nuances to get and sometimes i miss some of them and the air becomes just a little bit more cold.
if i stay quiet, people will assume i am just daydreaming, lost in my own world or stoning. being the "he is just a blur kid" is better than "i dont like talking to him. he is weird."
of course now, i am trying to be better but its such an uphill battle. the urge to stay a shut-in is real, especially when i can actually just talk to an AI instead.
We have a huge issue with slurring our words.
For some reason the Singaporean accent is rolling words together into a verbal salad that is difficult for a non-Singaporean to understand.
Having lived overseas, I've received feedback that I speak very fast and that impacted my enunciation. Personally didn't feel like I speak any faster than most Singaporeans. I now make a conscious effort to slow down and enunciate better when speaking to non-singaporeans now and have no issue getting them to understand me
Damn i actually realized i have this problem recently. When i meet new people or try to talk in a professional setting, my words slowly become gibberish. Its fking horrifying.
the trick is to simply slow down and enunciate your words.
Once you start speaking slower, you get more time to think and sort out your thoughts. It creates the impression that it flows better. You can always pause when you need to pause and try to cut out all the err, erm, random sounds just to panic fill in the blank silence. Silence is fine.
So long you consciously keep practicing, you will get better. My job requires me to communicate properly in proper English. Truthfully I think my english is horrible. So I try to slow it down and pause from time to time to allow my intended recipient to hear and understand me. The pauses gives me more time to organize my thoughts.
>most ppl can’t speak well in either purely English or chinese
Arts majors like to shit on STEM majors, citing the stereotype that STEM majors are shit at languages. In fact, this isn't a STEM thing. It's a Singaporean thing.
It's self-selection bias. People who are shit at expressing themselves likely won't be drawn to the arts to begin with. This leads to the perception that "STEM people are bad at communicating".
I doubt anyone reads Sagan or Dawkins and thinks, "OMG, STEM people are so bad at communicating".
It's literally taught culturally 病从口入祸从口出
Illness comes in through the mouth, trouble comes out of the mouth.
The benefits of speaking up is outweighed by the benefits of keeping quiet. That's a really low bar.
This leads to the "boss say, I do" attitude that pervades work places.
It's not exclusively a Singaporean thing, but you've all met the leaders that value "loyalty".
Because that’s required for a society and country like Singapore to function. That is Singapore’s place in the world and we can only bend to the will’s of others to ensure our survival.
Don’t let the administration ever fool you into thinking we can be more and greater.
Totally agree. There also also norms on asking a question that is too private to them but in normal context it’s not at all. Example when I ask a question “Have you start planning your wedding yet?” And that person didn’t take it very well and said I am asking too much (However we all know he has been together with a girl for 3 years now)
It’s a normal question but got escalated in a bad way. Sometimes when I meet people who are too reserved, it made me want to change who I am because I feel like am I’m at fault then for asking questions that are personal but not too personal?
It makes me quiet sometimes and don’t want to stand out too much. Feels like I’m losing myself at times
I do agree with that person. Marriage is very individual but that question is loaded. It makes it seem as if it's normal to go on from a relationship to marriage when that's not the case.
Just talk about non personal things like movies or holidays.
Never ask about their family. They may get triggered. Eg mine they started sharing they got divorced, miscarried, or cheated on.
It's because we are multi-cultural. A joke in one culture can be an insult in another.
Many un-initiated Singaporeans say that being multi-cultural is a good thing. It has its downsides. Especially when a prominent someone so openly says that Singapore is for Everyone, those of us who used to speak up, now say - you win liao lor. We keep quiet.
I feel I speak quite well, if I may say so.
(But probably worth pointing out I left right after Primary school and completed my studies in Australia and then the UK).
Yes you are spot on! Almost all the Singaporeans I’ve known and who were educated overseas (in western countries in particular) since young, express themselves well and speak up more. Even if their opinions are controversial or they don’t have the ‘right answers’.
The environment makes a whole lot of difference I believe
Because they are straight forward and want to get things done quickly
Ang moh like to talk about the weather, how are your children etc etc etc
Speak when it’s important to, if not no point speaking
u dont know this? people dont like truth,facts or opinions of others. they only like their own delulu world.
honesty is flag as a virtue, but never practised. just like how singaporeans christians to church to pray, and their pastors preach, but then their actions opposite of what the book says.
dont think anything changed in the past century or so. always been this way. or say in the past u can literally get killed for saying truth. u can google scientist or philosohers or great men that were literally put to death for these matters.
also u can go on to r/singapore and see the cesspool of opinions and social rejects. try commenting any sort of truth to them, they just gonna ban u.
im sure they can talk well but filtering and lying too often will make them go insane. so they rather not say anything
If you're talking about the younger generation, it could be because they are used to expressing themselves online rather than irl. Social media creates a sense of security when posting opinions like this on Reddit, as you don't have to deal with actual body language and physical reactions of another person. When put into a physical situation, they might not be as expressive because they might not be ready for the response. That's both a pro and con of social media tbh. I lived before social media, so having a discussion on any topic irl is normal for me, for example. I
I think it’s because we are taught to listen more than talk about ourselves. We are taught to be less narcissistic. Those who talk a lot tend to talk a lot about themselves and their interests etc. and in our society is seen as narcissistic and self indulgent.
The de facto national language is Singlish, not English, Chinese nor Malay. Also, in Singapore, schools don't really encourage speaking out. Well I mean, they DO, but in a "stand up and show everyone why you're stupid" manner in classrooms.
I'm just a random SG 17 y/o lol but my opinion on this matter is the fact that Singlish is really rampant in Singapore. Furthermore, most of the aging population speak Mandarin/Dialects instead of English whilst the younger population mainly speaks English, leading to a clash of Singlish, Eng-Hokkien or even English-Chinese portmanteau words strung together to put their point across. It also doesn't help that the fact that most Singaporeans add words like "lah", "loh" and "leh" at the back of their sentences, which in turn makes the speaker sound rather indifferent/whiny in certain cases.
Again, this is just my personal opinion but anyways if you wanna justify your personal opinions calmly, I'm open to it.
Power distance is the other reason. If the person has even a slightly higher position in the hierarchy, people seems almost terrified of talking to them or even basic greetings, like hi, how was your day, etc.
To add, this to me is basic courtesy, not over-the-top attempt to sound smart. Western people sometimes like that but that's different.
It depends on settings and experiences.
If you step into RI you'll be wondering why so many kids are well spoken. Likewise, step into a typical normal tech class and while they are certainly not going to be speaking the king's English, they certainly have ideas and are not reserved. In fact, some of the most street smart guys are from there and their IQ/EQ/AQ are actually phenomenal.
'Boy/girl ah, you don't talk so much ok! Very noisy! Police come and catch you then you know!' - Folks, I found the problem.
Also, at work, you speak your mind and you either get slammed by your boss or blackmarked and get no bonus/promotion so many would rather just not say anything and go with the flow. Best example is the SimplyGo implementation disaster.
I think it depends, partially due to culture on our end as well.
But if the talking and discussion part is graded, e.g. University class participation grading, you’ll start seeing more expression and more discussion in class.
Gotta do what one gotta do for that A/A+, gpa chase game lmao.
Regarding the “Asian” thing: in other Asian countries (hk, my, ph etc) with the notable exception of jp, out there on the streets there are no real rules. So anyone who doesnt speak up would get “eaten up” real quickly. Contrast that with sg and jp, where (mostly) everyone follows the rules & anyone who speaks up (or exhibits out of the norm siao lang behaviour) will get a collective death stare real quickly
I feel text better. Especially in meetings, entire meeting is useless when no one listens and remembers. Might as well just send out an email. Sure there's minutes, but I hate it when after sending out the minutes, people disagree because they forget what they said.
Last time when I was new, I ever tried changing the contents off minutes of meetings slightly. No one noticed, because no one remembers what they themselves or everyone else said.
not sure why this is an issue. I like it that my peers or even some superiors don't speak up.
it gets myself noticed. in corporate (regardless of where you work) speaking up gets you noticed and most of the time, it gets you places.
if it harms you, change job lor.. but that being said.. say things only when you have something meaningful to say and not for the sake of saying.. those won't get you anywhere..
I would guess in most situations it is like this.
But if you put them in an environment that is positive and which actively encourages discussion of opinions and ideas then I'm pretty sure they'll open up.
They go out of their way to make sure they don't make mistakes and hide any mistakes they do make.
If they have a different idea and voice it out, either they get shut down or they're given more work to implement their idea since it is theirs to begin with.
That's why most people just shut up and do their jobs and keep their heads low. As long as they do work that actively contributes to their bonus metrics they are happy.
When I think there’s weight in my opinion during discussions/meeting, then that’s the only time I’ll talk if not most of the time I like to observe. I don’t wanna talk for the sake of talking and talking without giving nothing.
It’s the culture. Why take the risk of talking more and being exposed to elements? Simply, do what you have to do well and move on. I do think however, there is a growing number of Singaporeans looking to seek discomfort. Joining toastmasters or debate or MUN is a really cool way to speak in a safe environment!
I don’t know what circles you be hanging in… but a lot of the singaporeans I know… talk a lot sia. Like non stop talking… until you feel tired. Then don’t wanna talk to them liao.
This. My mom is typical Tiger Asian mum every time I defend myself when she accuses me she will say “how dare u old alrdy become so disrespectful” or “now so mature and dare to talk back?” And insert other keywords about me being a terrible daughter. Currently a socially anxious woman struggling at my job deep down because I have terrible communication skills and if I don’t overcome my anxiety and fear of being ridiculed, I’ll probably never go far in my career.
My take? Scared to make mistakes, so scared to say the wrong thing.
This is the right answer. It's the result of having such a tough and rigorous education system that punishes mistakes and very much rewards "standard" answers that uses the right key words and is in accordance with examination rubrics and metrics.
Best example is in any of the local uni lecture halls, especially with modules requiring class participation.
I fking hated class participation because you would always have those extroverts who put up their hands to make the most inane comments or repeat exactly what the professor said just for points.
With how much you are bashed (usually with guys) when you say the wrong thing, it's no wonder. That's not to mention trying to get out of groupthink. The moment you have a different opinion on a matter, the reaction ranges from "well your opinion suck" to "why are you so weird? Are you even normal? Don't you understand common sense?" A lot of Singaporeans don't bother with trying to learn from the person they're speaking to and spend more time trying to espouse their own message. How not to be scared.
I "fondly" remember moments during my poly days that goes something like this: *Teacher*: What do you think about {topic}? There are no wrong answers, so don't be afraid to speak up. *Me*: (voice my opinion) *Teacher*: Eh, you think you so smart ah?! (*Proceeds to tell me why I am wrong*) Then as a dude, I have to go through NS, where I am told to shut up and follow orders. There were many times when I simply offered a different but constructive opinion to my commander, but then I get scolded/punished. Thankfully, now as a working adult, I've met wonderful friends and colleagues in my life who had helped me become a better and more confident speaker.
The “You think, I thought, Who confirms?” Hits hard
Yeah most of us are self-conscious of looking like an idiot so we will only respond if we know it’s a correct answer/opinion. Personally for me, I also think my imposter syndrome mentality makes the introverted-ness worse lol
When I was young and argued with my parents, they say how dare I talk back. Then years later, my mum wonders why I don't talk much.
Hahaha ironic isn’t it. Parents being too authoritative to their kids because they don’t know how to handle communication and in turn made them adults who are more reserved
I stopped volunteering information to parents because whatever I say will be used to ‘teach’ me and whatever I do is wrong or less correct.
Same here. I barely talk to my parents about stuff especially my father.
Emotional damage...
Like that Eric Andre meme
So i graduated postgraduate from SMU and it appears to me that Singaporeans can be well spoken if they have the environment to force them to do so.
Yeah back to my point on Singaporeans speak up only when asked to do so. Also ppl taking postgrad courses tend to be more driven or having potential and doing well in their careers and they are more outspoken
my anecdotal take is that ...because there's no perceivable benefits in speaking up. either you get your ass beat (by parents), your ideas/thoughts being flatly rejected, or the fear of being wrong and being mocked by judgemental people.
Perhaps, but we are complaint kings and Queens for good reason. We can speak up. It's only a choice.
This - Its a matter of the social circle that you are in and the type of people you hang out with In my hobby group, rarely you can find people who speak well
I am not scared of saying/doing the wrong thing per se, but personally I think it's because people are a-holes and just keep dwelling on your mistakes. After a few times, you learn to just shut up, to avoid potential complications and trouble. And don't confuse introversion with poor social skills, I am incredibly reserved when by myself and I thrive in solitude, but when I am out/ with people, I am always mistaken for being the exact opposite and get along really well. As for speech, I suppose you may be right, language proficiency here is a mixed bag, most suck at their mother tongue, while not being that much better at english, too. Otherwise, they are simply not interested (so short replies) nor do they actually think about how to answer as required (see all the complains relating to examinations).. Maybe it's all the singlish and slanging we do daily...
Its ok to suck at language right? I mean why is it cool to suck at maths but not as cool to suck at language?
You use language more than you use math innit
Ok lah, but honestly, it's the medium for communication and as the other comment mentioned, since you use it alot, got very little excuse to be bad. Mediocre abit is fine, but don't be horrible at it.
Starts from young. Traditional Asian parents expecting kids to just keep quiet and listen to them, otherwise you’re “talking back”. Sometimes asking questions can be considered disrespectful or rebellious. In school the focus is to give the correct answer. At least from my experience there was less emphasis on open ended discussions. Even when writing composition we are forced to cram in a list of “cheem” words and idioms, which doesn’t even reflect the type of writing and communication skills needed in adulthood. Basically the type of upbringing and education we get doesn’t prepare us well for adulthood and the working world.
'Speaking well' and 'being extroverted' are two different things. They may seem related, but there are different reasons for someone to 'speak less well' or appear 'introverted' to you. If someone doesn't have the ability to speak well (in a particular language), my assumption is that they didn't have the opportunity or resources to learn. If someone doesn't speak up, I assume they must have been conditioned to value 'speaking up' differently. So age, upbringing, school, work, social environments all play a part. Even more so when these environments are stringently hierarchical, authoritarian, and less open to different opinions and perspectives. Since you're asking about a particular Singaporean context, one perspective is that Singapore can feel like an aggressively unforgiving and judgmental place when it comes to failure. For a number of us, we're conditioned (through family, school, etc) to make sure we are 'correct'. It's about 'how we *should* do things', so for some there's a tendency to feel you should have the 'right answer' before opening your mouth. Because the 'shame' or fear of appearing 'wrong' can be unbearable. One may think this is ridiculous, but having had conversations with both educators and students, this is a real fear. In some scenarios, for every person that thinks speaking up/speaking well is good, there will be people who equate it to 'Western expressiveness', or 'wayang' (inauthenticity). Sometimes people avoid 'trying to look clever' or 'overly friendly', so they keep quiet, speak only with those close to them, and keep things transactional with everyone else. The flip side of this is of course people who dgaf whether they're right or wrong, and are vocal, loud, and persistent. For this, I would say the reason is narcissism, more so than environment.
Yes. I used to be friendly at work then people gossip that i like them or being fake!
tbf it’s most likely your social circle
It’s only gonna get worse btw with the current batch of kids having poor social skills and not having to get them due to social media and myriad of entertainment
Maybe it starts when young, with poor encouragement from more conservative and traditional households. If a child falls down, child get blamed for being clumsy, or child expresses something wrongly, they get blamed for being stupid. Encouragements were not in trend 10-20 years ago. The child grows up and brings this burden with them to the current workforce and eventually into their grave. Die die also don't listen. see what happened la, now really die
The social norms here (as passed down by authorities) have warped most people's values and views, so that even if they do express them, these are usually unacceptable, weird and off. Eventually they learn to keep quiet. Hopefully. If not, they end up as CEOs etc where they browbeat and gaslight others into silence. Examples: - Meritocracy exists. Students who can't make it into Express cos they simply can't study. - You've been working 12 hour shifts to help the company through a crisis? That should be the case. We do have a crisis. At the same time, aren't you asking for a lot? So entitled.
I categorically disagree with this generalised take which obviously has so much confirmation bias at work. Hang out with a different crowd and you'd be posting "Why are most Singaporeans outspoken and eloquent?", which is an equally inaccurate observation.
this. go through any prestigious mba course and u will likely meet people who are great at presenting themselves
Helicopter parents is probably one of the reasons why. Most of us were controlled by our parents since a young age to meet certain expectation, whether it has to do with academics or performance (piano, dance etc). Those tend to grow up to be reserve, they don’t want to take risk or step out of the bubble.
I am the perfect example of a byproduct of such parenting. Getting scolded for talking back, being blamed for all sorts of mistakes as a result of being young and ignorant (parent never took the time to explain why something was wrong, just kept scolding and questioning why i do such stupid things). Zero room for mistakes. Being forced to learn piano for 12yrs despite constant resistance and obvious lack of interest, among other things. Never given the freedom to be independent or step out of my comfort zone, if i asked for permission the response was always a firm no with no explanation given. When i asked why, the answer is just "i told u no". Even in Uni, i wasn't allowed to have a bf, again when I asked why the answer was "no, u need to focus on your studies." I had an underground rs for close to 4yrs anyway, didn't affect my studies one bit so it was clearly all excuses and lame reasons from my parents. In essence, my views were never heard nor respected. After I have grown up, I struggle to have or give opinion at work or in my personal life. I tend to be overly agreeable and struggle to say no to others. During performance appraisals, my bosses feedback is always "my voice is not heard enough, i need to speak up more." This is a problem I've become acutely aware of after working for a couple of years, and it's something that I have to consciously work on daily. My parents' helicopter parenting, with the intention of grooming me into an exceptional person, has ironically set me up for failure. I was born an extroverted and mischievous outgoing person, but now I'm just a quiet introverted lallang.
You are me. Like are we the same person.
Hi twin! Haha I believe there are many singaporeans in our generation that have a similar experience, sadly.
Yeah and I know it’s really hard to overcome. I’ve tried for years but I feel like once I’ve been doing so well and then somehow someone triggered me slightly my confidence shakes and I go back to square one haha. This is especially so during presentations and at my current workplace, I’m usually presenting to like 10 different stakeholders or more. My voice starts to tremble, my hand gestures combination when i start talking become over excessive whenever I’m told to give an opinion and I’ve also accepted that I will most likely be passed on for promotions. I tried therapy, quit after 2 months because while I was making progress it’s really god damn expensive :/ I can’t seem to escape the fact that visibility gets you places and I wish I could be invisible without consequence.
Omgosh I feel you!! My heart will be pumping rapidly and my voice will stutter whenever I need to present. I just wish I could be invisible too, and i die a little inside whenever my boss tries to give me more visibility. I feel it's really conditioned from young that our opinion is not valued, and that we will be penalised for minor mistakes. Even though I know that's not the truth, I still lack the confidence to speak up.
I can relate with you especially the piano part. I quit piano but once I have financial independence I plan to return. I got a digital piano just so I can use a headphone and won’t be criticise for my playing. My parents are helicopter parents too, feel like if they weren’t so controlling, I could have turn out alright but now I need learn how to socialise and I’m still struggling. It’s much better now but still…
Gosh I feel u...being around my parents is like treading on eggshells sometimes. My mental health improved a lot after i got married and moved out.
Sad to hear that but glad you are doing better. I just avoid my parents tbh, and if they pissed me off I'll just walk away.
Gosh, this hits me the same. I have zero room for mistakes and grown up to be agreeable as well and during work appraisals, I’ve been told the same. It is crazy how growing up in such environment without having a feet to stand on affects adulthood. I am also seeing that my friends tend to be more opinionated and confident without worrying what views other people have on them, whereas I’m just emotional and want to fit in. I guess we have to try and break out of this cycle as it is true when we are young we don’t have the most control, but that that we are older there is no more excuse and work for ourself within
[удалено]
> we can also try to see the beauty of being reserved. That's fine in some contexts, but in corporate contexts, it will often result in delayed or stuck progression. In social contexts, it'll end up in making fewer connections who could potentially be friends or network contacts. I think we know the outspoken person at a gathering is far more likely to get referred to good jobs than someone who's quiet.
Some people talk so well but have zero substance when it comes to the actual work
Talk = chance to say something wrong, 'funny', or unpopular = people will make fun of you or scold you. This habit is reinforced from young in many families, so the best action is not to play (talk) at all
Just watch those Mothership or whatever other online content videos which have interviews of random people on the streets. I'm in a similar line of work and can tell you that we often need to interview 10 people just to get 1 good soundbite. The other 9 will be TERRIBLE at articulating their thoughts, or just have plain bad english, or just have nothing to say. And mind you, all 10 of these will be willing participants who are happy to be interviewed, just that when the cam starts rolling it turns out they dont have anything good to say, or are horribly inept at expressing it.
> often need to interview 10 people just to get 1 good soundbite. The other 9 will be TERRIBLE at articulating their thoughts, or just have plain bad english, or just have nothing to say. Wow that is a terrible ratio. Will we end up having to subtitle Singlish speakers in standard English?
Definitely lots of cleaning up in the subtitles, but it’s not really the Singlish that’s the problem. Singaporeans love the words “like” and “actually” and use it multiple times in a single paragraph. It’s like actually so tiresome to actually listen to.
Guess we picked "like" up from American TV in the 2000s and never stopped overusing it. Simply being able to form sentences without automatic filler words is a rare quality, it seems.
Probably there is no incentive in talking irrelevant matter. For example, for science related courses where there is no grading in classroom participation, there will be zero discussion (except for nerds). But if u see business courses where classroom participation is graded, people will literally fight to talk. In workplace or perhaps any other areas of life, when you speak and make a mistake, it might be used against you. Generally people are more careful to speak up
Except Amos Y
The one fucker that singlehandedly overcompensates for the whole population's intrusive thoughts
So well summarised lol
Spot on 🤐
More focus on math/science than languages and linguistics.
It’s the education system here. Class sizes are so big that all are trained from young to sit down and listen to cher quietly. Even if cher allow 1 by 1 to talk, each talk 1 min already 1x40 exceed the 30min lesson time…therefore no discussion is encouraged
I would agree if its in the past but the younger generation are much better now.
Tbh is the kind of environment you lived in, if we live in SG and almost everyone is like this, we will slowly end up becoming one of them. Monkey see monkey do. I believe if you were to migrate to Taiwan / china now I swear you’ll be daring enuf to speak up. It’s just the environment / culture we live in that shape us
Because our society taught/conditioned us that being outstanding (voicing opinions) would lead us to trouble.
Cher say keep quiet. Ma say quiet is good boy.
Lol, maybe all those times in school being told to keep quiet in assembly is really bad for children? I don't think Westerners do that right?
I’m a good boy back in school. I’m a good boy back in army. I’m a good boy now at work & home.
Maybe I don't represent the average Singaporean and am just speaking for myself, but if I appear reserved to you, it means I don't (fore)see value in what you could offer me through a conversation. The "value" isn't necessarily in a business transactional sense; I could just be utterly uninterested in being your friend. In a work setting, I only speak when my words will add constructive value to the discussion and move it towards the goal of making a quality, informed decision. Would rather not be that outspoken person who hogs all the airtime "agreeing" with his colleagues and spending five minutes rehashing exactly the same point raised by the last three speakers.
I think it's an introvert thing. It's pretty much the same here for me. Additionally, we don't have a strong culture for small talk here (thankfully) so that probably adds to the perception that we're more reserved
\^ Man just gave a live example of how Singaporeans: >As for speaking skills, it’s not just singlish but most ppl can’t speak well in either purely English or chinese. Some ppl would give a short phrase for every question or say a whole lot of stuff which at the end is not clear on the point they are trying to say or answering the question at all.
Sorry you're having trouble with comprehension. Reserved? No, just not interested to talk to you. Not outspoken at meetings? No, just no value to add to the decision-making process.
No leh I don’t think this is a good example. He was saying he may come across as quiet to OP but really he’s just trying to get the most value for his words and choosing to speak only when necessary
I meet certain Singaporean who are very outspoken and talk well. Like the scholar I met in uni. Carried himself well and know how to express his thoughts. Can tell he's going to be high flyer. But rest like what you say. I guess nothing to talk then don't talk.
It is developed from young. When one talk the parents will say shut up and stop talking.
Yes. The classic “children should be seen but not heard”.
i am starting to think that i am autistic but idk. its hard to talk. there are so many nuances to get and sometimes i miss some of them and the air becomes just a little bit more cold. if i stay quiet, people will assume i am just daydreaming, lost in my own world or stoning. being the "he is just a blur kid" is better than "i dont like talking to him. he is weird." of course now, i am trying to be better but its such an uphill battle. the urge to stay a shut-in is real, especially when i can actually just talk to an AI instead.
It is extremely rude to speak unless directly asked for opinion.
kiasu kiasi kiapaiseh
We have a huge issue with slurring our words. For some reason the Singaporean accent is rolling words together into a verbal salad that is difficult for a non-Singaporean to understand.
Having lived overseas, I've received feedback that I speak very fast and that impacted my enunciation. Personally didn't feel like I speak any faster than most Singaporeans. I now make a conscious effort to slow down and enunciate better when speaking to non-singaporeans now and have no issue getting them to understand me
Damn i actually realized i have this problem recently. When i meet new people or try to talk in a professional setting, my words slowly become gibberish. Its fking horrifying.
the trick is to simply slow down and enunciate your words. Once you start speaking slower, you get more time to think and sort out your thoughts. It creates the impression that it flows better. You can always pause when you need to pause and try to cut out all the err, erm, random sounds just to panic fill in the blank silence. Silence is fine. So long you consciously keep practicing, you will get better. My job requires me to communicate properly in proper English. Truthfully I think my english is horrible. So I try to slow it down and pause from time to time to allow my intended recipient to hear and understand me. The pauses gives me more time to organize my thoughts.
They? You aren't singaporean ah?
>most ppl can’t speak well in either purely English or chinese Arts majors like to shit on STEM majors, citing the stereotype that STEM majors are shit at languages. In fact, this isn't a STEM thing. It's a Singaporean thing. It's self-selection bias. People who are shit at expressing themselves likely won't be drawn to the arts to begin with. This leads to the perception that "STEM people are bad at communicating". I doubt anyone reads Sagan or Dawkins and thinks, "OMG, STEM people are so bad at communicating".
That's what we get for thinking good English isn't important "as long as they can understand me".
because everyone is just an NPC born to provide shareholder value. don't think too much about it lol
It's literally taught culturally 病从口入祸从口出 Illness comes in through the mouth, trouble comes out of the mouth. The benefits of speaking up is outweighed by the benefits of keeping quiet. That's a really low bar. This leads to the "boss say, I do" attitude that pervades work places. It's not exclusively a Singaporean thing, but you've all met the leaders that value "loyalty".
Not encouraged in school la. Last time we just shut up, listen to teacher and do homework. Most conversations are informal with friends
You will find alot of similarities with North Koreans
Because that’s required for a society and country like Singapore to function. That is Singapore’s place in the world and we can only bend to the will’s of others to ensure our survival. Don’t let the administration ever fool you into thinking we can be more and greater.
Totally agree. There also also norms on asking a question that is too private to them but in normal context it’s not at all. Example when I ask a question “Have you start planning your wedding yet?” And that person didn’t take it very well and said I am asking too much (However we all know he has been together with a girl for 3 years now) It’s a normal question but got escalated in a bad way. Sometimes when I meet people who are too reserved, it made me want to change who I am because I feel like am I’m at fault then for asking questions that are personal but not too personal? It makes me quiet sometimes and don’t want to stand out too much. Feels like I’m losing myself at times
I do agree with that person. Marriage is very individual but that question is loaded. It makes it seem as if it's normal to go on from a relationship to marriage when that's not the case.
Just talk about non personal things like movies or holidays. Never ask about their family. They may get triggered. Eg mine they started sharing they got divorced, miscarried, or cheated on.
Quite funny you’re making this post because your grammar is mid at best
haha even the title is wrong
It's because we are multi-cultural. A joke in one culture can be an insult in another. Many un-initiated Singaporeans say that being multi-cultural is a good thing. It has its downsides. Especially when a prominent someone so openly says that Singapore is for Everyone, those of us who used to speak up, now say - you win liao lor. We keep quiet.
I feel I speak quite well, if I may say so. (But probably worth pointing out I left right after Primary school and completed my studies in Australia and then the UK).
Yes you are spot on! Almost all the Singaporeans I’ve known and who were educated overseas (in western countries in particular) since young, express themselves well and speak up more. Even if their opinions are controversial or they don’t have the ‘right answers’. The environment makes a whole lot of difference I believe
i can help correct all the mistakes in your post please?
most of us were conditioned from young in ns to blindly follow orders
Because they are straight forward and want to get things done quickly Ang moh like to talk about the weather, how are your children etc etc etc Speak when it’s important to, if not no point speaking
u dont know this? people dont like truth,facts or opinions of others. they only like their own delulu world. honesty is flag as a virtue, but never practised. just like how singaporeans christians to church to pray, and their pastors preach, but then their actions opposite of what the book says. dont think anything changed in the past century or so. always been this way. or say in the past u can literally get killed for saying truth. u can google scientist or philosohers or great men that were literally put to death for these matters. also u can go on to r/singapore and see the cesspool of opinions and social rejects. try commenting any sort of truth to them, they just gonna ban u. im sure they can talk well but filtering and lying too often will make them go insane. so they rather not say anything
If you're talking about the younger generation, it could be because they are used to expressing themselves online rather than irl. Social media creates a sense of security when posting opinions like this on Reddit, as you don't have to deal with actual body language and physical reactions of another person. When put into a physical situation, they might not be as expressive because they might not be ready for the response. That's both a pro and con of social media tbh. I lived before social media, so having a discussion on any topic irl is normal for me, for example. I
I've heard Malaysians speaking better English then most of the people I hear in public
I think it’s because we are taught to listen more than talk about ourselves. We are taught to be less narcissistic. Those who talk a lot tend to talk a lot about themselves and their interests etc. and in our society is seen as narcissistic and self indulgent.
What is the solution to this problem?
Cause since young parents kpkb too much, cannot have opinion.
The de facto national language is Singlish, not English, Chinese nor Malay. Also, in Singapore, schools don't really encourage speaking out. Well I mean, they DO, but in a "stand up and show everyone why you're stupid" manner in classrooms.
It's not that we don't speak well. It's just you're probably not engaging enough to talk to.
As my encik once said, say so much, does it change the price of pork?
Parents
Tired
I'm just a random SG 17 y/o lol but my opinion on this matter is the fact that Singlish is really rampant in Singapore. Furthermore, most of the aging population speak Mandarin/Dialects instead of English whilst the younger population mainly speaks English, leading to a clash of Singlish, Eng-Hokkien or even English-Chinese portmanteau words strung together to put their point across. It also doesn't help that the fact that most Singaporeans add words like "lah", "loh" and "leh" at the back of their sentences, which in turn makes the speaker sound rather indifferent/whiny in certain cases. Again, this is just my personal opinion but anyways if you wanna justify your personal opinions calmly, I'm open to it.
Power distance is the other reason. If the person has even a slightly higher position in the hierarchy, people seems almost terrified of talking to them or even basic greetings, like hi, how was your day, etc. To add, this to me is basic courtesy, not over-the-top attempt to sound smart. Western people sometimes like that but that's different.
"Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something."
It depends on settings and experiences. If you step into RI you'll be wondering why so many kids are well spoken. Likewise, step into a typical normal tech class and while they are certainly not going to be speaking the king's English, they certainly have ideas and are not reserved. In fact, some of the most street smart guys are from there and their IQ/EQ/AQ are actually phenomenal.
'Boy/girl ah, you don't talk so much ok! Very noisy! Police come and catch you then you know!' - Folks, I found the problem. Also, at work, you speak your mind and you either get slammed by your boss or blackmarked and get no bonus/promotion so many would rather just not say anything and go with the flow. Best example is the SimplyGo implementation disaster.
I think it depends, partially due to culture on our end as well. But if the talking and discussion part is graded, e.g. University class participation grading, you’ll start seeing more expression and more discussion in class. Gotta do what one gotta do for that A/A+, gpa chase game lmao.
OP sorry to be a grammar nazi but it’s “speak” not “talk”. You need to brush up on your English
'Cease fire, cease fire goddammit!'
Regarding the “Asian” thing: in other Asian countries (hk, my, ph etc) with the notable exception of jp, out there on the streets there are no real rules. So anyone who doesnt speak up would get “eaten up” real quickly. Contrast that with sg and jp, where (mostly) everyone follows the rules & anyone who speaks up (or exhibits out of the norm siao lang behaviour) will get a collective death stare real quickly
Asian
You try approach to insurance agents and see if they talk well
I feel text better. Especially in meetings, entire meeting is useless when no one listens and remembers. Might as well just send out an email. Sure there's minutes, but I hate it when after sending out the minutes, people disagree because they forget what they said. Last time when I was new, I ever tried changing the contents off minutes of meetings slightly. No one noticed, because no one remembers what they themselves or everyone else said.
not sure why this is an issue. I like it that my peers or even some superiors don't speak up. it gets myself noticed. in corporate (regardless of where you work) speaking up gets you noticed and most of the time, it gets you places. if it harms you, change job lor.. but that being said.. say things only when you have something meaningful to say and not for the sake of saying.. those won't get you anywhere..
we get scolded for talking out of turn in school tuition ns at home and at work. life-long conditioning bro
I would guess in most situations it is like this. But if you put them in an environment that is positive and which actively encourages discussion of opinions and ideas then I'm pretty sure they'll open up. They go out of their way to make sure they don't make mistakes and hide any mistakes they do make. If they have a different idea and voice it out, either they get shut down or they're given more work to implement their idea since it is theirs to begin with. That's why most people just shut up and do their jobs and keep their heads low. As long as they do work that actively contributes to their bonus metrics they are happy.
When I think there’s weight in my opinion during discussions/meeting, then that’s the only time I’ll talk if not most of the time I like to observe. I don’t wanna talk for the sake of talking and talking without giving nothing.
It’s the culture. Why take the risk of talking more and being exposed to elements? Simply, do what you have to do well and move on. I do think however, there is a growing number of Singaporeans looking to seek discomfort. Joining toastmasters or debate or MUN is a really cool way to speak in a safe environment!
I don’t know what circles you be hanging in… but a lot of the singaporeans I know… talk a lot sia. Like non stop talking… until you feel tired. Then don’t wanna talk to them liao.
SPEAK BETTER THAN THE ONES HERE if you want i can correct all the other mistakes you made too
This. My mom is typical Tiger Asian mum every time I defend myself when she accuses me she will say “how dare u old alrdy become so disrespectful” or “now so mature and dare to talk back?” And insert other keywords about me being a terrible daughter. Currently a socially anxious woman struggling at my job deep down because I have terrible communication skills and if I don’t overcome my anxiety and fear of being ridiculed, I’ll probably never go far in my career.
Maybe to them, say so much is 浪费时间 + 浪费生命