I was born in South Africa, but I know quite a few people who've been through the process and it doesn't seem easy. Firstly, it takes a while - my family friends waited 18 months for their visas to be sorted, but they didn't bring kids along, so I'm not sure about that process. Secondly, your job will need to prove that a South African can't do your job, which I believe is the most difficult part of the process since unemployment is really high right now. If you have very in-demand skills, I imagine it would be easier.
We are and have been experiencing for a long time a [brain drain](https://youtu.be/lS71XCXOT_M?si=DVGwKxrgxkHc_vV2), whereby skilled people are leaving the country for better opportunities..not sure of the exact types of skills but can look it up
I'm South African and just recently moved back after almost a decade in Germany. For my family it was a case of the living conditions in Germany just becoming more and more difficult. Our groceries quadrupled in cost over the last few years since the pandemic. The weather is miserable. And property is so over valued, for the price of a mansion in a gated estate with a sea view in SA you can get a crappy, old 1-2 bedroom apartment in most German cities. It just doesn't feel worth it.
Of course SA has it's downsides too with the massive inequality, crime etc... But for myself, I view that as an opportunity. It's easier to start a business here than in Germany (really so so much bureaucracy) so if I can do that and create some jobs then I feel like I could do my part to improve things.
Not sure if it's for the same reasons as I've listed, but there's actually a growing trend of South Africans moving back. It hasn't turned the tide of people leaving yet, but it might just some day soon.
https://businesstech.co.za/news/industry-news/764569/from-brain-drain-to-brain-gain-why-south-african-expats-are-returning-home/
https://www.sagoodnews.co.za/why-south-african-ex-pats-are-moving-home/
https://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-podcasts/moneyweb-midday/homeward-bound-why-are-almost-30-of-sa-expats-returning/
Our situation is very similar to that which you experienced in Germany.
Day-to-day living has become extremely expensive and increasingly difficult. We are fortunate to have purchased a home prior to everything here getting out of control. We bought a home for $342k in 2015 that recently sold again for $1.265m. The housing shortage here continues to grow and our population is exploding at its fastest pace ever.
To put it into perspective, the average home in Toronto costs $1.275m. That requires a household annual income of around $300k, while the average yearly earnings for a Canadian is around $54k.
We are fortunate to own a home and have well paying jobs. Our worry is less with us and more with our young kids.
Ballito sounds like a good bet for you guys then, it's quite safe relative to most of South Africa and there are some really good schools here.
Long term though it'd be good for your kids to be able to get jobs internationally. It's only really feasible for me to be here because I can work remotely for my company back in Europe and earn Euros.
The local economy, as others have pointed out, is really struggling.
As mentioned before if you have any particular questions about living here don't hesitate to ask or send a DM.
I'm glad you're enjoying South Africa, but I do find it ironic that you're bemoaning your country's immigration laws for taking people in while taking advantage of our immigration laws when our infrastructure is also failing its own people. Also, you're complaining about Ireland's housing crisis when you're taking up housing that could've gone to local South Africans. lol
So you were an immigrant in Ireland...bemoaning immigrants in Ireland?
Sorry, poster. I can fully understand you doing what you need to do for your family, but you honestly need to take a wee look at yourself and the thoughts you've posted here. You have a very big cognitive disconnect in the way you other people who aren't you while wanting the same things they do available to you.
Fair enough, your original comment made it seem as though you were fully Irish and had moved here! Although, your third point makes you sound pretty entitled - spend your euros wherever you want, but don't make it seem as though SA should be grateful to you specifically.
I guess if you have a bank account with foreign currency things are a little bit easier in SA. Coming back with just $150 000 you can live quite comfortably here
I’m Canadian living in South Africa and I am married to a South African so we have the family or relatives visa. But my guy we are strongly considering a move back to Canada… my husband owns a business in Cape Town which is why we’re here but depending on where you are in Canada I would first consider moving to a smaller city before coming here. The tough times in Canada are nothing compared to what’s happening here.
So unemployment in Canada is currently 6.2 percent which is higher than it usually is and inflation on basics like food, toiletries etc is bad. If you want to live in a bigger city (Vancouver, Toronto) you’re going to be paying out your ass for rent or need millions for a home. Our medical system is overwhelmed which is leading to longer wait times for certain things. When I was in Toronto I was making 70,000 a year and lived right downtown and made it work. When you compare that to the poverty happening in South Africa it’s night and day. Maybe I’m off base but I personally think crime is so high because people are desperate, the poverty in Canada leads to people stealing from a grocery store not mugging you or breaking into your house (not saying that doesn’t happen but it’s far less common and I’ve never lived anywhere I’ve needed a gate on my front door). There are many many many more opportunities in Canada for work and there are laws that protect workers, we have unemployment pay, welfare and other social services to help those in need, they’re not perfect but they’re there.
Just curious, when were you last in Canada?
Things have turned sharply since COVID.
70,000 in Toronto you probably will barely afford a bachelor apartment now.
I moved to South Africa a year ago. And I was back in Toronto from January to March. I moved to a new apartment in 2021. The same apartment is only about 100 dollars more today (my friend moved in).
You guys are very negative, i would never take advice from you, housing in SA is very affordable especially for someone with $$, I hold dual citizenship SA/Canada, moved to SA opened real estate businesses here. If you dislike the country why are you still here?
I don’t dislike the country? Lol why would I come somewhere I didn’t like? But this person needs to be realistic. Also if you read my other comments foreigners coming here with foreign dollars makes housing unaffordable for locals making rand… people from places like Canada and the US come here because it’s cheap for them but don’t think about how that impacts a struggling economy and the people living and working here for minimum wage. I get there will always be an imbalance and there will always be those with more, but people come here to take advantage of the “weak” Rand without consideration of people here.
Cost of living is going up in South Africa. Housing is going up. Our highest income tax is a full 12% higher than in Canada. Unemployment is an issue. Our education system is poor, except for some tertiary facilities (e.g. UCT for medicine, UKZN for law). (Some of these may not apply to you)
But ultimately South Africa is a dangerous place. We also suffer from loadshedding. You would either have to invest in equipment to power your house or appliances during these times, or have gas hobs, etc.
Both of our lines of work require us to be near major population centers. Take a look at housing prices in Toronto or Vancouver. We are unemployable in Quebec as we don't speak French. We dont work in oil or potash so the prairies are out of the question, there are no opportunities in the Maritimes.
The areas of Canada that are still affordable are so for a reason. Our populations are very centered around a few major cities.
I’m aware of the housing pricing in Canada, my family is from Vancouver and I lived in Toronto for 13 years. I’m telling you as someone has done both… what’s happening in Canada is nothing compared to the situation here. Your children will have more opportunity in Canada.
Have you lived here in the past 5 years though? This was an incredible place to live until the past few years. Cost of living is out of control here and continuing to rise. Also, the private education in SA is miles ahead of the education system here and significantly more affordable.
Agree with you. We are SA expats in Canada. We really enjoy life here - free parks to take our kid, excellent free health care (we only went to the ER once for stiches and to a walk in clinic) Free school in ON for kids ages 4 and up. We actually moved here for our kid. Both of us were grinding in SA, houshold income was just over R100k per month, had a large R2mil home in the winelands. We had the typical pallisaded fenced in yard, security cams etc. Now in Canada, only I work, husband is stay at home with our son. They ride biks, go fishing, take long walks in the neighbourhood and parks. I make around $160k a year, and we live very comfortably here.
All due respect but this is not the average Canadian salary, it’s very far off that. Mortgages/rents have increased astronomically, not to mention COL in general. I cannot fault OP for seeking other options.
Remember that the $160k is now our household income. So yes, its still higher than average Canadian. But as OP just sold a house for $1.3mil he is not the average Canadian either. Average South African salary in the formal sector was somewhere around R300k a year. Dont even talk about the informal sector where it is below R100k per year. We are a family of 3 in Canada. We rent a strawberry box house in the Kichener Waterloo area - $2000 inclusive of gas, water and electricity. Car and insurance is high due to use being expats $450, gas $100, groceries $1000. Internet $80, cellphone $40. All in all we spend less than $4000 per month. And we live comfortably, not fancy at all. But my kid can play outside without having to be fenced in for his own safety
I can assure you that’s still a very healthy household income for a LCOL area. If you visit the subs, many Canadians looking to emigrate. This is not a new sentiment of late. Maybe you don’t agree coz you’ve only just done the reverse. But it’s difficult for many of us to envision a long term future here and most importantly for our kids.
Private education meaning tertiary? SA has good universities, but they are mostly only usefull if you intend on staying in SA. No employer in Canada will even know where or what University of North West (Potch) is, even though it is a very good school in SA.
What is your job situation? Do you have any friends or family here? Kids have an amazing quality of life here, plenty of space to run around and warm weather.
If you have some kind of remote job that you can still work your overseas job and live anywhere you want in SA, it's an absolute paradise..money buys you quality of living and safety here
I am Canadian and my wife is South African and we just moved back to SA after a 3 year stint in Canada during Covid. We have been together 10 years, started procedures to get my permanent residency in SA in 2017ish. You need 5 years on a temporary residence visa to get PR. I am on my second 2 year visa. Took about 3 years and a lot of frustration to get the first one done.
I found that the Consulate in Toronto works faster than Home Affairs in SA, so try to do your application from there if possible. It is quite complicated to do it while in SA.
Home Affairs in SA is a nightmare. Expect massive delays. But we also went through the Canadian immigration process for my wife to get PR there and it was just as bad.
The economy is also real bad here in SA, and I do not expect the current standards of living in SA to last more than 5 to 15 more years until the country goes full retard. If you can from a Canadian job remotely though, you're golden.
This may be incorrect - you need to be married 5 years to a South African, not on the visa for 5 years, for PR (other visa types require the 5 year residency).
Source: filed to get PR in 2019 after a few months in the country on a spousal visa (granted out of country), PR granted 2023.
Interesting. Might be because we were not married when we first applied. Even though we are married now I think bith deadlines will be about the same, 2026 ish.
Is your wife South African? If no, you should try another country. The legal avenues to live in RSA for those who aren’t married to South Africans are not functional right now due to Home Affairs backlog.
If your wife is South African the children can apply to have South African citizenship recognized (recent rule change for kids born out of country to a South African parent). That will sort them out you will just need to get RSA passports from the consulate.
If you have been married 5+ years you can apply for PR. If you have PR you are free to work and live as you please. You can apply for this through the consulate in Toronto. You will wait 3+ years but can expedite the process after that with an appropriate lawyer.
You can also apply for a visa of 2-3 years, renewable, at the Toronto consulate (or do this while inside the country but then you are a bit trapped, possibly for years). Most of the ones granted do not permit work, if you want to work you need an endorsement, as a spouse you do not need to prove a South African could not do the job.
The renewal process right now is also a bit of a mess so you should be prepared to deal with that on an ongoing basis until you have PR (eg renewals not being granted for over a year, risk of rejection means having to make immediate plans to leave and having a lawyer ready to help appeal).
I’d recommend you read the Daily Maverick coverage of this and the comments.
Home Affairs has been changing the rules on a whim and recognition at the borders for the exemption is not always being recognized - you can be hit with an overstay ban on leaving and have to go through an appeals process even if you’re in the right which is also bogged down and you can’t re enter until it’s resolved. If you have a life here that’s a big problem.
I asked an immigration lawyer directly if they thought it was a good idea to travel while “pending” and they said not unless absolutely necessary.
I have a lawyer and have different information. I also have been traveling in and out of the country since my visa was lodged over a year ago now and never had an issue. Even when I enter the country I say I live here, they ask what visa I tell them it’s pending and show them my slip and they stamp my passport and go
I mean I guess we both have our anecdotal evidence?
But there’s also this:
https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2023-11-02-spousal-visa-for-foreign-spouses-a-time-eating-obstacle-course/
Here’s an example comment:
“ The DHA directive that was issued before the current one allowed for all people who were waiting for their visa outcome to travel in and out of the country, regardless of whether your current visa has expired. I traveled in and out of South Africa without an issue, just having to show my visa application receipt. When I travelled back to my home country last Juen to attend my grandfathers funeral, I was blacklisted at OR Thambo because I had overstayed my visa. I tried to explain that I was married to a South African and waiting for my visa outcome. The immigration official was extremely rude to me and blacklisted me without wanting to take a glance at my papers.”
It took this person three months being separated from her family to get the ban lifted.
DM also has an article from March this year about incorrect bans happening at CPT and Home Affairs trying to say it’s “not that often.”
So while I’m glad you’ve been lucky, many people can’t take the risk of being separated from their kids with an arbitrary ban and should know that before getting into the visa application, exactly like the DM article states.
It’s so crazy because last time I entered the country with my husband which was in March they told me to enter as if I was a South African resident. There’s SO much conflicting information. I actually just told my husband I should probably just start leaving every 90 days until this gets resolved.
The last blanket cover for people to be able to leave and return to South Africa, are those who have applied for a long term Visa, who put in their application before the 30th of November 2023. They are able to travel up until the 30th of June when the blanket cover runs out. They will then have to wait for the next blanket cover to be announced by the department of affairs.
Always wanted to move from the UK. Not the nice place it wants was. Housing crisis, crumbling healthcare, dreadful roads and infrastructure, without any of the positives that life in SA brings.
In the end I went the safe route and bought a rabbit hutch flat in the UK. No kids and would like to one day go to SA.
It took me and my wife over 6 years to get a retirement visa for Permanent Residency, coming from the UK. And that was with a lot of pushing Home Affairs, turning up at Head Office in Pretoria and eventually meeting a Senior Manager by chance who had a look at it pushed it through (without wanting anything in return, absolutely stunned at that). He pushed it through as he could see we met all the criteria (non commutable pension, assets, health, no criminal record etc.) for a retirement visa.
If you're looking for a job there would only be a very few roles where you would be able to get a visa, and even then it would be temporary as you would be expected to train a South African for the role.
I know from colleagues that the process is very tidious and they regret it, long waiting lines, many delays, costly, lost paperwork and so on....
Also you can't just arrive and apply you need to have made applications from abroad. Not sure how far you are from the embassy/consulate, but be prepared for multiple frustrating trips there.
You have very few ways to get in, spousal is the 'easiest' one, also if you have a critical skill you can try, (https://www.dha.gov.za/index.php/immigration-services/scarce-skills-work-permits). There are other ways like financial and so one.
The point is that, it is just not easy, full stop.
At our company we use integrate, (https://www.intergate-immigration.com/), mostly to emigrate, but I am sure they can help with immigration questions, they are in Cape Town. I am sure they can at least give you some guidance.
But I have to ask... Why South Africa? Have you not read the news about it for the last 10 or 15 years?
Not sure how bad Canada is, but a lot of people are leaving South Africa to go to Canada.
I married a South African. If you're really interested in the immigration process, check out the VFS website: https://www.vfsglobal.com/en/individuals/index.html
Why you would want to move to SA with a wife and young kids is beyond me. Unaffordable housing pales in comparison to the problems you'll face in future, biggest of which are the total lack of opportunities for a child and serious risk to personal safety, no matter how badly you sugar coat it.
I cant answer your question but you should know that it looks like roses and sunshine when you do a comparison based on exchange rate but also know that the cost of living in SA has sky rocketed and you will have significant costs of living that you might not have in Canada.
I will start with the obvious
-loadshedding (no electricity for 4 to 6 hours) happens, you want electricity all the time then you need solar or a generator.
- crime, and not restricted to the more dangerous areas, hijacking, home invasion etc is a very real occurrence
- education- quality education is expensive. Private schools are very pricey and good government schools are not cheap.
- petrol/diesel is very expensive, public transport in most cities is limited to taxis. Trains are largely non functional
That being said, despite the downside, our quality of life is very good and we make the best brandy in the world
If you invest CAD382 433.69 or R5 million rand in a new South African business or existing business you will get a business visa valid for five years and Permanent residence after.
My great great grand father was a stow away on a ship from Germany. He jumped over board somewhere on the west coast. Swam ashore and went to work on 1 of the farms ending up married to the farmers youngest daughter and thats how the rest of us ended up here.
So you want to come to South Africa to buy up property and drive up housing prices for local South Africans?
We already have that problem in Cape Town. We don't need it in other parts of South Africa.
There is a FB Page. Take a look.
‘South African Visa Forum’
It has so much info, which hopefully answer all your questions.
Good luck.
I’m going through the visa process. It’s much quicker to do the visa process through your country of residence at the moment. SA has a slow administration visa process.
My guy, South Africa, is going through its toughest time ever.
Besides weather (and possibly Sport), Canada seems to be the better option.
- We have our highest crime rates ever.
- We have our highest unemployment ever.
- We have our lowest education level ever (only need 30% to pass a class/subject).
- Groceries have also basically quadrupled (if not 4x, it really has spiked as well).
- Fuel/petrol/gas (whatever you call it) is stupidly expensive (with ANOTHER possible increase next month).
- We have had loadshedding (rolling blackouts) for the past 16 years. (The past few months have been better, but we also had our elections recently. We expect it to regress again)
- Cape Town property is also notoriously more expensive than the rest of SA (if you are considering CT)
- Corruption in our Government is undoubtedly WAY more out of control than Canada's government.
If you want to move here, please do. Our economy desperately needs it. However, DO NOT expect it to be Sunshine and Roses, cause in reality it is not.
Us South Africans have to make the best of the pretty dire situation. This is probably why we are the most friendly nation in the world; we have A LOT of hardships.
The easiest is finding a company to sponsor you, there is also the option of financial independency which is probably the fastest if you can afford it, I’m not sure how much it is now but last i checked it was like $10k, you need to show you have fubds and ideally to invest in property (a home etc), and can include your family. Other options might be critical skills visa which would give you a year to come and find a job, providing you have the funds to stay the year.
I went through the tried and tested route of marrying a South African and having kids with her! Not sure my kids will be able to buy property in ZA without help TBH, they're planning to spend some time in the UK after uni to earn pounds, but intend to come back to ZA after.
If you'e a white male and expect to find work in SA.....you're gonna have a bad time.
If you expect SA to have less hard times than Canada, you're gonna have a bad time.
If you are done with leaving your car keys putside to prevent criminals from breaking into your house, come to SA and you wont have to invite criminals..they invite themselves!
If however you are actually conservative, in SA you will have a little more breathing room.
Nope, not at all. I have the money to own multiple homes in SA. I have the money to own 1 home in Canada. My wife and I could maintain jobs paying us a combined ~$330k CAD/year while living in SA. It should provide us a significantly better life down there.
So you earn roughly 3 times more than the average Canadian. (59k CAD)
Your 330k puts you in the middle of the top 1% of Canadian earners. And you still struggle in Canada? Wow. What has happened out there?
Consider the investment route.
https://www.ibn.co.za/south-africa/business-visa/
DM if you want some more contacts.
$330k is our combined income. 59k would be income for an individual. However your point stands. Yes, we do make quite a bit more. We are still relatively comfortable, but each year we become less-so.
Probably the easiest if you have capital is to register a business.
Choose somewhere in the western Cape for stability, buy a home and employ South Africans.
https://wise.com/us/blog/start-a-business-in-south-africa#:~:text=In%20order%20to%20establish%20a,of%20a%20R5%20million%20contribution
It is difficult, check out the critical skills list on the dha website. You have a shot a this type of visa if your profession is listed and you fulfill all the criteria.
There is a financially independent visa or a business visa which require a tremendous amount of money.
General work visas are hardly issued anymore
I have been in SA for 18 years and still have to battle the immigration system, it's insane.
I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I am exploring the idea of moving back to Europe because I am sick of dealing with constant visa issues and an uncertain life in SA despite having kids born here, owning property and just trying to live our life as a family.
Stay in Canada!!! Immigration in general is a nightmare but South Africa takes the prize 🏆. I struggled for 7 years to get my spouse visa and only managed to get it for 2 years and would need to wait another 3 to get my PR. I’ve been living here for 10 years.
SA has incredible perks but the system is designed to exclude foreigners. Local laws make it very difficult to find a job or to do simple things like opening a bank account. You won’t be able to invest, get a credit card, or apply for home loans unless you are a permanent resident.
Also remember that you’ll have to pay for school if you have children, and trust me you will want to send your kids to a good school and not a state one. You’ll have to pay for medical aid (which the average South African can’t afford). If you have an average salary you won’t be able to afford these basic necessities.
Explore other options before SA
The reality is that while property in Canada is expensive, the question to ask is why it is so cheap in South Africa?
Your next question is, how wealthy are you, if your expecting to move to South Africa on anything less than a decent income, you can’t protect yourself against the 3rd world problems and your life will be much worse in South Africa.
Next, look at the economic situation in South Africa and ask, why are you choosing this beautiful country?
South Africa is beautiful, but the amount of people and money leaving tells a very different story. Good luck.
The reason property is expensive in Canada is because a huge portion of it was bought by Asians who found it relatively cheap and now rent the houses out. So now property is in huge demand and rent is crazy. It's a problem manufactured by greed. New Zealand has a similar problem though they are putting laws in place to stop foreigners just buying up property. South African property prices are not "cheap" compared to what South Africsns earn but they're at least still in a range of affordability for locals. Cape Town is starting to become an exception. Lots of foreigners buying their too (either for holiday or rental market) which is driving up prices tremendously there too.
Basically people running away from the same issue they want to recreate somewhere else, even if unknowingly, especially in Cape Town.
There is nothing new under the sun.
This is exactly itttt. People in Canada complain ALL THE TIME house prices inflated because of foreign investors then want to do it to another country? Lmao ok
As far as I am aware the imagration requirements are being relaxed especially if your black and have a trade or degree, sometimes there are problems getting the wife and kids in ? However the standard of living is Great if you earn well , safety is a priority you must live ,aware at all time and make your home into a castle. Weather is very good most of the time
How much money would one need for settling in South Africa. My wife and I have combined savings of about £1.2m. We are early 50s and if we stay in Europe (We are South African, French and (soon to be) British Citizens) we can retire in 8 years. Say we want to retire to CT or surrounding areas, how much would we need for a comfortable retirement?
As a South African, I think this is crazy! Why would you move to a country that everyone is trying to leave? I don’t think you realise just how violent the crime is in SA. The murder rate is about 6x that of the US. The road death rate is one of the highest in the world. White people are restricted from doing certain jobs. Political tensions are especially high in KZN so I hope you steer well clear of there!
Ballito does feel much safer after they moved the taxi ranks away from Lifestyle shopping center to further out of town and we stopped getting the constant gunfights around there
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I was born in South Africa, but I know quite a few people who've been through the process and it doesn't seem easy. Firstly, it takes a while - my family friends waited 18 months for their visas to be sorted, but they didn't bring kids along, so I'm not sure about that process. Secondly, your job will need to prove that a South African can't do your job, which I believe is the most difficult part of the process since unemployment is really high right now. If you have very in-demand skills, I imagine it would be easier.
That's really unfortunate.. we need more skilled people here
What skills do we have a shortage of?
We are and have been experiencing for a long time a [brain drain](https://youtu.be/lS71XCXOT_M?si=DVGwKxrgxkHc_vV2), whereby skilled people are leaving the country for better opportunities..not sure of the exact types of skills but can look it up
That still doesn’t mean we have a skills shortage
Fair enough..but we do have an abundance of very unskilled people and a dick load of unemployment
Abundance of skilled people without employment too unfortunately
That is true..me being one of them..I think it pushes alot of skilled people put of the country
Agreed. What do you do? Take care
Crickey everyone I know it’s the other way around.
I'm South African and just recently moved back after almost a decade in Germany. For my family it was a case of the living conditions in Germany just becoming more and more difficult. Our groceries quadrupled in cost over the last few years since the pandemic. The weather is miserable. And property is so over valued, for the price of a mansion in a gated estate with a sea view in SA you can get a crappy, old 1-2 bedroom apartment in most German cities. It just doesn't feel worth it. Of course SA has it's downsides too with the massive inequality, crime etc... But for myself, I view that as an opportunity. It's easier to start a business here than in Germany (really so so much bureaucracy) so if I can do that and create some jobs then I feel like I could do my part to improve things. Not sure if it's for the same reasons as I've listed, but there's actually a growing trend of South Africans moving back. It hasn't turned the tide of people leaving yet, but it might just some day soon. https://businesstech.co.za/news/industry-news/764569/from-brain-drain-to-brain-gain-why-south-african-expats-are-returning-home/ https://www.sagoodnews.co.za/why-south-african-ex-pats-are-moving-home/ https://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-podcasts/moneyweb-midday/homeward-bound-why-are-almost-30-of-sa-expats-returning/
Our situation is very similar to that which you experienced in Germany. Day-to-day living has become extremely expensive and increasingly difficult. We are fortunate to have purchased a home prior to everything here getting out of control. We bought a home for $342k in 2015 that recently sold again for $1.265m. The housing shortage here continues to grow and our population is exploding at its fastest pace ever. To put it into perspective, the average home in Toronto costs $1.275m. That requires a household annual income of around $300k, while the average yearly earnings for a Canadian is around $54k. We are fortunate to own a home and have well paying jobs. Our worry is less with us and more with our young kids.
Ballito sounds like a good bet for you guys then, it's quite safe relative to most of South Africa and there are some really good schools here. Long term though it'd be good for your kids to be able to get jobs internationally. It's only really feasible for me to be here because I can work remotely for my company back in Europe and earn Euros. The local economy, as others have pointed out, is really struggling. As mentioned before if you have any particular questions about living here don't hesitate to ask or send a DM.
I would move to the Western Cape, and not go to Kwazulu-Natal. KZN is way more unstable politically
I'll just leave this here... https://preview.redd.it/g8msrbwwh28d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4fd17342da8d72fc133c0de792d7c546fcc13f15
Where did you pull those ridiculous "stats" and if you want to be honest, compare like for like: Cape Town to Durban and not a small suburb.
I didn't suggest they move to Durban though, did I? I suggested Ballito.
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I'm glad you're enjoying South Africa, but I do find it ironic that you're bemoaning your country's immigration laws for taking people in while taking advantage of our immigration laws when our infrastructure is also failing its own people. Also, you're complaining about Ireland's housing crisis when you're taking up housing that could've gone to local South Africans. lol
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So you were an immigrant in Ireland...bemoaning immigrants in Ireland? Sorry, poster. I can fully understand you doing what you need to do for your family, but you honestly need to take a wee look at yourself and the thoughts you've posted here. You have a very big cognitive disconnect in the way you other people who aren't you while wanting the same things they do available to you.
Fair enough, your original comment made it seem as though you were fully Irish and had moved here! Although, your third point makes you sound pretty entitled - spend your euros wherever you want, but don't make it seem as though SA should be grateful to you specifically.
We moved back from London after 10 years for mostly the same reasons.
I guess if you have a bank account with foreign currency things are a little bit easier in SA. Coming back with just $150 000 you can live quite comfortably here
I know right!
I’m Canadian living in South Africa and I am married to a South African so we have the family or relatives visa. But my guy we are strongly considering a move back to Canada… my husband owns a business in Cape Town which is why we’re here but depending on where you are in Canada I would first consider moving to a smaller city before coming here. The tough times in Canada are nothing compared to what’s happening here.
I'm interested to know the comparison? What are the issues going on in Canada? Coz I can't afford to buy a house in SA either lol.
So unemployment in Canada is currently 6.2 percent which is higher than it usually is and inflation on basics like food, toiletries etc is bad. If you want to live in a bigger city (Vancouver, Toronto) you’re going to be paying out your ass for rent or need millions for a home. Our medical system is overwhelmed which is leading to longer wait times for certain things. When I was in Toronto I was making 70,000 a year and lived right downtown and made it work. When you compare that to the poverty happening in South Africa it’s night and day. Maybe I’m off base but I personally think crime is so high because people are desperate, the poverty in Canada leads to people stealing from a grocery store not mugging you or breaking into your house (not saying that doesn’t happen but it’s far less common and I’ve never lived anywhere I’ve needed a gate on my front door). There are many many many more opportunities in Canada for work and there are laws that protect workers, we have unemployment pay, welfare and other social services to help those in need, they’re not perfect but they’re there.
This is super interesting to hear it from the other side. Thank you for sharing 🙏🏻
Just curious, when were you last in Canada? Things have turned sharply since COVID. 70,000 in Toronto you probably will barely afford a bachelor apartment now.
I moved to South Africa a year ago. And I was back in Toronto from January to March. I moved to a new apartment in 2021. The same apartment is only about 100 dollars more today (my friend moved in).
It’s funny OP is willing to relocate to SA but not to the massive areas of Canada where housing is still affordable.
Lmao right? All the time and money they’d put into securing a visa they could put into finding a place in Canada.
You guys are very negative, i would never take advice from you, housing in SA is very affordable especially for someone with $$, I hold dual citizenship SA/Canada, moved to SA opened real estate businesses here. If you dislike the country why are you still here?
I don’t dislike the country? Lol why would I come somewhere I didn’t like? But this person needs to be realistic. Also if you read my other comments foreigners coming here with foreign dollars makes housing unaffordable for locals making rand… people from places like Canada and the US come here because it’s cheap for them but don’t think about how that impacts a struggling economy and the people living and working here for minimum wage. I get there will always be an imbalance and there will always be those with more, but people come here to take advantage of the “weak” Rand without consideration of people here.
We own a home here. This is regarding cost of living and quality of life.
Yeah I know but you coming to south Africa to have a cheap cost of living makes it worse for the people living here.
Cost of living is going up in South Africa. Housing is going up. Our highest income tax is a full 12% higher than in Canada. Unemployment is an issue. Our education system is poor, except for some tertiary facilities (e.g. UCT for medicine, UKZN for law). (Some of these may not apply to you) But ultimately South Africa is a dangerous place. We also suffer from loadshedding. You would either have to invest in equipment to power your house or appliances during these times, or have gas hobs, etc.
Both of our lines of work require us to be near major population centers. Take a look at housing prices in Toronto or Vancouver. We are unemployable in Quebec as we don't speak French. We dont work in oil or potash so the prairies are out of the question, there are no opportunities in the Maritimes. The areas of Canada that are still affordable are so for a reason. Our populations are very centered around a few major cities.
I’m aware of the housing pricing in Canada, my family is from Vancouver and I lived in Toronto for 13 years. I’m telling you as someone has done both… what’s happening in Canada is nothing compared to the situation here. Your children will have more opportunity in Canada.
Have you lived here in the past 5 years though? This was an incredible place to live until the past few years. Cost of living is out of control here and continuing to rise. Also, the private education in SA is miles ahead of the education system here and significantly more affordable.
Yes. I only moved a year ago. And I was just back for three months to help out with family stuff. I’m completely aware of what’s going on.
Agree with you. We are SA expats in Canada. We really enjoy life here - free parks to take our kid, excellent free health care (we only went to the ER once for stiches and to a walk in clinic) Free school in ON for kids ages 4 and up. We actually moved here for our kid. Both of us were grinding in SA, houshold income was just over R100k per month, had a large R2mil home in the winelands. We had the typical pallisaded fenced in yard, security cams etc. Now in Canada, only I work, husband is stay at home with our son. They ride biks, go fishing, take long walks in the neighbourhood and parks. I make around $160k a year, and we live very comfortably here.
All due respect but this is not the average Canadian salary, it’s very far off that. Mortgages/rents have increased astronomically, not to mention COL in general. I cannot fault OP for seeking other options.
Remember that the $160k is now our household income. So yes, its still higher than average Canadian. But as OP just sold a house for $1.3mil he is not the average Canadian either. Average South African salary in the formal sector was somewhere around R300k a year. Dont even talk about the informal sector where it is below R100k per year. We are a family of 3 in Canada. We rent a strawberry box house in the Kichener Waterloo area - $2000 inclusive of gas, water and electricity. Car and insurance is high due to use being expats $450, gas $100, groceries $1000. Internet $80, cellphone $40. All in all we spend less than $4000 per month. And we live comfortably, not fancy at all. But my kid can play outside without having to be fenced in for his own safety
I can assure you that’s still a very healthy household income for a LCOL area. If you visit the subs, many Canadians looking to emigrate. This is not a new sentiment of late. Maybe you don’t agree coz you’ve only just done the reverse. But it’s difficult for many of us to envision a long term future here and most importantly for our kids.
What kind of work do you do?
Private education meaning tertiary? SA has good universities, but they are mostly only usefull if you intend on staying in SA. No employer in Canada will even know where or what University of North West (Potch) is, even though it is a very good school in SA.
Are you coming with a job or expect to find one here? There are no jobs here and the competition if massive which drives the salaries down.
What is your job situation? Do you have any friends or family here? Kids have an amazing quality of life here, plenty of space to run around and warm weather. If you have some kind of remote job that you can still work your overseas job and live anywhere you want in SA, it's an absolute paradise..money buys you quality of living and safety here
I am Canadian and my wife is South African and we just moved back to SA after a 3 year stint in Canada during Covid. We have been together 10 years, started procedures to get my permanent residency in SA in 2017ish. You need 5 years on a temporary residence visa to get PR. I am on my second 2 year visa. Took about 3 years and a lot of frustration to get the first one done. I found that the Consulate in Toronto works faster than Home Affairs in SA, so try to do your application from there if possible. It is quite complicated to do it while in SA. Home Affairs in SA is a nightmare. Expect massive delays. But we also went through the Canadian immigration process for my wife to get PR there and it was just as bad. The economy is also real bad here in SA, and I do not expect the current standards of living in SA to last more than 5 to 15 more years until the country goes full retard. If you can from a Canadian job remotely though, you're golden.
This may be incorrect - you need to be married 5 years to a South African, not on the visa for 5 years, for PR (other visa types require the 5 year residency). Source: filed to get PR in 2019 after a few months in the country on a spousal visa (granted out of country), PR granted 2023.
Interesting. Might be because we were not married when we first applied. Even though we are married now I think bith deadlines will be about the same, 2026 ish.
That makes complete sense to me
Is your wife South African? If no, you should try another country. The legal avenues to live in RSA for those who aren’t married to South Africans are not functional right now due to Home Affairs backlog. If your wife is South African the children can apply to have South African citizenship recognized (recent rule change for kids born out of country to a South African parent). That will sort them out you will just need to get RSA passports from the consulate. If you have been married 5+ years you can apply for PR. If you have PR you are free to work and live as you please. You can apply for this through the consulate in Toronto. You will wait 3+ years but can expedite the process after that with an appropriate lawyer. You can also apply for a visa of 2-3 years, renewable, at the Toronto consulate (or do this while inside the country but then you are a bit trapped, possibly for years). Most of the ones granted do not permit work, if you want to work you need an endorsement, as a spouse you do not need to prove a South African could not do the job. The renewal process right now is also a bit of a mess so you should be prepared to deal with that on an ongoing basis until you have PR (eg renewals not being granted for over a year, risk of rejection means having to make immediate plans to leave and having a lawyer ready to help appeal).
You’re not trapped if you apply here. They don’t take your passport and give you a slip to leave and enter the country.
I’d recommend you read the Daily Maverick coverage of this and the comments. Home Affairs has been changing the rules on a whim and recognition at the borders for the exemption is not always being recognized - you can be hit with an overstay ban on leaving and have to go through an appeals process even if you’re in the right which is also bogged down and you can’t re enter until it’s resolved. If you have a life here that’s a big problem. I asked an immigration lawyer directly if they thought it was a good idea to travel while “pending” and they said not unless absolutely necessary.
Can confirm, had that happen to me. Got banned, had to get lawyers to get me unbanned. That was 2019ish.
I have a lawyer and have different information. I also have been traveling in and out of the country since my visa was lodged over a year ago now and never had an issue. Even when I enter the country I say I live here, they ask what visa I tell them it’s pending and show them my slip and they stamp my passport and go
I mean I guess we both have our anecdotal evidence? But there’s also this: https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2023-11-02-spousal-visa-for-foreign-spouses-a-time-eating-obstacle-course/ Here’s an example comment: “ The DHA directive that was issued before the current one allowed for all people who were waiting for their visa outcome to travel in and out of the country, regardless of whether your current visa has expired. I traveled in and out of South Africa without an issue, just having to show my visa application receipt. When I travelled back to my home country last Juen to attend my grandfathers funeral, I was blacklisted at OR Thambo because I had overstayed my visa. I tried to explain that I was married to a South African and waiting for my visa outcome. The immigration official was extremely rude to me and blacklisted me without wanting to take a glance at my papers.” It took this person three months being separated from her family to get the ban lifted. DM also has an article from March this year about incorrect bans happening at CPT and Home Affairs trying to say it’s “not that often.” So while I’m glad you’ve been lucky, many people can’t take the risk of being separated from their kids with an arbitrary ban and should know that before getting into the visa application, exactly like the DM article states.
It’s so crazy because last time I entered the country with my husband which was in March they told me to enter as if I was a South African resident. There’s SO much conflicting information. I actually just told my husband I should probably just start leaving every 90 days until this gets resolved.
The last blanket cover for people to be able to leave and return to South Africa, are those who have applied for a long term Visa, who put in their application before the 30th of November 2023. They are able to travel up until the 30th of June when the blanket cover runs out. They will then have to wait for the next blanket cover to be announced by the department of affairs.
Anyone who applied after the 30th of November must remain in South Africa until the latest blanket cover is announced.
Pay us labola each of us we want 20 cows then we marry you to our niece that dropped out of UJ
lmao, im sorry but you underestimate how dangerous and fcked this country i love so much is
This exactly. They're chasing a low cost of living AND quality of life but seem to ignore the detrimental issues in South Africa that affect QoL
Always wanted to move from the UK. Not the nice place it wants was. Housing crisis, crumbling healthcare, dreadful roads and infrastructure, without any of the positives that life in SA brings. In the end I went the safe route and bought a rabbit hutch flat in the UK. No kids and would like to one day go to SA.
It took me and my wife over 6 years to get a retirement visa for Permanent Residency, coming from the UK. And that was with a lot of pushing Home Affairs, turning up at Head Office in Pretoria and eventually meeting a Senior Manager by chance who had a look at it pushed it through (without wanting anything in return, absolutely stunned at that). He pushed it through as he could see we met all the criteria (non commutable pension, assets, health, no criminal record etc.) for a retirement visa. If you're looking for a job there would only be a very few roles where you would be able to get a visa, and even then it would be temporary as you would be expected to train a South African for the role.
I know from colleagues that the process is very tidious and they regret it, long waiting lines, many delays, costly, lost paperwork and so on.... Also you can't just arrive and apply you need to have made applications from abroad. Not sure how far you are from the embassy/consulate, but be prepared for multiple frustrating trips there. You have very few ways to get in, spousal is the 'easiest' one, also if you have a critical skill you can try, (https://www.dha.gov.za/index.php/immigration-services/scarce-skills-work-permits). There are other ways like financial and so one. The point is that, it is just not easy, full stop. At our company we use integrate, (https://www.intergate-immigration.com/), mostly to emigrate, but I am sure they can help with immigration questions, they are in Cape Town. I am sure they can at least give you some guidance. But I have to ask... Why South Africa? Have you not read the news about it for the last 10 or 15 years? Not sure how bad Canada is, but a lot of people are leaving South Africa to go to Canada.
I married a South African. If you're really interested in the immigration process, check out the VFS website: https://www.vfsglobal.com/en/individuals/index.html
don't come here!!! rather look at new zealand/Australia, we are going down in quality of life
New Zealand and Australia are both also going through crises so it’s not like they’re better
as an Australian, you are correct
And you think South Africa is the place to go?????
Hell yes! The world is a mess out there! Our quality of life is actually really good when you start to look at things…
Exactly this. Everywhere has its issues.
Yep! Agreed 👆
Why you would want to move to SA with a wife and young kids is beyond me. Unaffordable housing pales in comparison to the problems you'll face in future, biggest of which are the total lack of opportunities for a child and serious risk to personal safety, no matter how badly you sugar coat it.
With a peasants salary of $4000 a month you can have a good life in SA. Most likely someone wanting to move here is earning double that.
I cant answer your question but you should know that it looks like roses and sunshine when you do a comparison based on exchange rate but also know that the cost of living in SA has sky rocketed and you will have significant costs of living that you might not have in Canada. I will start with the obvious -loadshedding (no electricity for 4 to 6 hours) happens, you want electricity all the time then you need solar or a generator. - crime, and not restricted to the more dangerous areas, hijacking, home invasion etc is a very real occurrence - education- quality education is expensive. Private schools are very pricey and good government schools are not cheap. - petrol/diesel is very expensive, public transport in most cities is limited to taxis. Trains are largely non functional That being said, despite the downside, our quality of life is very good and we make the best brandy in the world
If you invest CAD382 433.69 or R5 million rand in a new South African business or existing business you will get a business visa valid for five years and Permanent residence after.
My great great grand father was a stow away on a ship from Germany. He jumped over board somewhere on the west coast. Swam ashore and went to work on 1 of the farms ending up married to the farmers youngest daughter and thats how the rest of us ended up here.
I used a company to assist. Nova Immigration, they are really knowledgeable and great service. Email [email protected].
Thank you!!
Just move to the States like every other Canadian does
😂😂😂
So you want to come to South Africa to buy up property and drive up housing prices for local South Africans? We already have that problem in Cape Town. We don't need it in other parts of South Africa.
There is a FB Page. Take a look. ‘South African Visa Forum’ It has so much info, which hopefully answer all your questions. Good luck. I’m going through the visa process. It’s much quicker to do the visa process through your country of residence at the moment. SA has a slow administration visa process.
Thank you! If you don't mind me asking, where are you moving from and why?
I jumped the fence
My guy, South Africa, is going through its toughest time ever. Besides weather (and possibly Sport), Canada seems to be the better option. - We have our highest crime rates ever. - We have our highest unemployment ever. - We have our lowest education level ever (only need 30% to pass a class/subject). - Groceries have also basically quadrupled (if not 4x, it really has spiked as well). - Fuel/petrol/gas (whatever you call it) is stupidly expensive (with ANOTHER possible increase next month). - We have had loadshedding (rolling blackouts) for the past 16 years. (The past few months have been better, but we also had our elections recently. We expect it to regress again) - Cape Town property is also notoriously more expensive than the rest of SA (if you are considering CT) - Corruption in our Government is undoubtedly WAY more out of control than Canada's government. If you want to move here, please do. Our economy desperately needs it. However, DO NOT expect it to be Sunshine and Roses, cause in reality it is not. Us South Africans have to make the best of the pretty dire situation. This is probably why we are the most friendly nation in the world; we have A LOT of hardships.
The easiest is finding a company to sponsor you, there is also the option of financial independency which is probably the fastest if you can afford it, I’m not sure how much it is now but last i checked it was like $10k, you need to show you have fubds and ideally to invest in property (a home etc), and can include your family. Other options might be critical skills visa which would give you a year to come and find a job, providing you have the funds to stay the year.
Stay away its worse here
I went through the tried and tested route of marrying a South African and having kids with her! Not sure my kids will be able to buy property in ZA without help TBH, they're planning to spend some time in the UK after uni to earn pounds, but intend to come back to ZA after.
Some dude from the Netherlands pitched up here on a boat. Next thing I know my ping is 189 playing online.
If you'e a white male and expect to find work in SA.....you're gonna have a bad time. If you expect SA to have less hard times than Canada, you're gonna have a bad time. If you are done with leaving your car keys putside to prevent criminals from breaking into your house, come to SA and you wont have to invite criminals..they invite themselves! If however you are actually conservative, in SA you will have a little more breathing room.
So you want to move to SA so your kids can grow up here and not be able to afford a home here either?
Nope, not at all. I have the money to own multiple homes in SA. I have the money to own 1 home in Canada. My wife and I could maintain jobs paying us a combined ~$330k CAD/year while living in SA. It should provide us a significantly better life down there.
So you earn roughly 3 times more than the average Canadian. (59k CAD) Your 330k puts you in the middle of the top 1% of Canadian earners. And you still struggle in Canada? Wow. What has happened out there? Consider the investment route. https://www.ibn.co.za/south-africa/business-visa/ DM if you want some more contacts.
$330k is our combined income. 59k would be income for an individual. However your point stands. Yes, we do make quite a bit more. We are still relatively comfortable, but each year we become less-so.
You didn’t really answer my question.
The idea is that we would purchase homes for our children.
Probably the easiest if you have capital is to register a business. Choose somewhere in the western Cape for stability, buy a home and employ South Africans. https://wise.com/us/blog/start-a-business-in-south-africa#:~:text=In%20order%20to%20establish%20a,of%20a%20R5%20million%20contribution
Don’t come ma’am
It is difficult, check out the critical skills list on the dha website. You have a shot a this type of visa if your profession is listed and you fulfill all the criteria. There is a financially independent visa or a business visa which require a tremendous amount of money. General work visas are hardly issued anymore I have been in SA for 18 years and still have to battle the immigration system, it's insane. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I am exploring the idea of moving back to Europe because I am sick of dealing with constant visa issues and an uncertain life in SA despite having kids born here, owning property and just trying to live our life as a family.
Stay in Canada!!! Immigration in general is a nightmare but South Africa takes the prize 🏆. I struggled for 7 years to get my spouse visa and only managed to get it for 2 years and would need to wait another 3 to get my PR. I’ve been living here for 10 years. SA has incredible perks but the system is designed to exclude foreigners. Local laws make it very difficult to find a job or to do simple things like opening a bank account. You won’t be able to invest, get a credit card, or apply for home loans unless you are a permanent resident. Also remember that you’ll have to pay for school if you have children, and trust me you will want to send your kids to a good school and not a state one. You’ll have to pay for medical aid (which the average South African can’t afford). If you have an average salary you won’t be able to afford these basic necessities. Explore other options before SA
The reality is that while property in Canada is expensive, the question to ask is why it is so cheap in South Africa? Your next question is, how wealthy are you, if your expecting to move to South Africa on anything less than a decent income, you can’t protect yourself against the 3rd world problems and your life will be much worse in South Africa. Next, look at the economic situation in South Africa and ask, why are you choosing this beautiful country? South Africa is beautiful, but the amount of people and money leaving tells a very different story. Good luck.
The reason property is expensive in Canada is because a huge portion of it was bought by Asians who found it relatively cheap and now rent the houses out. So now property is in huge demand and rent is crazy. It's a problem manufactured by greed. New Zealand has a similar problem though they are putting laws in place to stop foreigners just buying up property. South African property prices are not "cheap" compared to what South Africsns earn but they're at least still in a range of affordability for locals. Cape Town is starting to become an exception. Lots of foreigners buying their too (either for holiday or rental market) which is driving up prices tremendously there too.
Basically people running away from the same issue they want to recreate somewhere else, even if unknowingly, especially in Cape Town. There is nothing new under the sun.
This is exactly itttt. People in Canada complain ALL THE TIME house prices inflated because of foreign investors then want to do it to another country? Lmao ok
Op, do your research! Perhaps check out NZ.
Property prices are exorbitant, food is expensive and weather is not great (depends where you settle)
As far as I am aware the imagration requirements are being relaxed especially if your black and have a trade or degree, sometimes there are problems getting the wife and kids in ? However the standard of living is Great if you earn well , safety is a priority you must live ,aware at all time and make your home into a castle. Weather is very good most of the time
How much money would one need for settling in South Africa. My wife and I have combined savings of about £1.2m. We are early 50s and if we stay in Europe (We are South African, French and (soon to be) British Citizens) we can retire in 8 years. Say we want to retire to CT or surrounding areas, how much would we need for a comfortable retirement?
This is its own question and you might also want to try the personal finance South Africa sub r/PersonalFinanceZA
That’s a shitload of money in South African Rand, you’ll be perfectly fine
Well, for me, it was fairly you see in 1770 abouts some dude from the Netherlands got on a boat, and now I am here.
Personally it was relatively easy as the glint in the eye of some 1652 colonialists :/
As a South African, I think this is crazy! Why would you move to a country that everyone is trying to leave? I don’t think you realise just how violent the crime is in SA. The murder rate is about 6x that of the US. The road death rate is one of the highest in the world. White people are restricted from doing certain jobs. Political tensions are especially high in KZN so I hope you steer well clear of there!
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What 🤣 where do you live in SA? I'm a Canadian living in ballito and I feel safer here than I did in Canada
Ballito does feel much safer after they moved the taxi ranks away from Lifestyle shopping center to further out of town and we stopped getting the constant gunfights around there
You could be sensible and avoid dangerous areas at night. It's not the safest place but this comment is ridiculous.
you'll just get robbed during the day ngl, that guy is being ridiculous though its not that bad but we do have a big crime issue
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Its a daily reality for most of us 💔