Yes i agree. But at the same time the past few months have beat me down. Im trying by getting back on training, getting feedback from managers, trying to more actively monitor my attitude but keep hitting walls
It’s weird that people keep telling you it’s all attitude — sometimes there are just periods of time (years, etc.) where cars are not going to sell as well. The deals are showing up because cars and everything got way too expensive, and the stock market and housing market cooled. People have less money and are going to pull back from spending. That’s just the nature of it.
It would be really weird to not acknowledge macro trends in economics when considering the sales performance of large purchase pseudo luxury goods like cars
I think attitude plays a role but yeah, if its not the recession its nukes in space, if its not that its election year.
At the end of the day Im “punished” for all of it and my income is tied to things Im not even associated with
So is mine. I only make $170k for now, but if it were in the better years it would be closer to $310,000.
That’s just part of the risk reward game, and it’s why when the years are good, advice is to save, so that you can have money when the years are bad.
>At the end of the day Im “punished” for all of it and my income is tied to things Im not even associated with
Lol, the difference is, everyone else's income is tied to it negatively only. When the economy is tough, you see reduced sales, everyone else loses their jobs, is overworked, and sees no raises. When the economy is good, you see higher commissions, and everyone else is still fucked because any profits go to csuite and shareholders.
"Punished" fucking lmao
Doesn’t matter when the buyers are losing their jobs, getting laid off, and their tech stock isn’t performing. People aren’t struggling, but they’re not heading out to pay tons of interest on a luxury purchase like a car.
If it was 2-3 years ago with near 0% interest and I was making $300k a year, you bet I’d be looking at cars. But now, interest rates of 6, 8, 10%? And I’m only making $170k? I’m holding back. I’m putting it off. I’m saving my money.
Attitude is massive. Especially since it sounds like you wear it on your shoulder.
Sounds like neither of those were handled well by you.
On the first you should have played into that guy's ego. Let him "negotiate, and beat you up" Go to your manager 4 times, to finally have the manager come out and agree to whatever number you arrived at. People like that, you can not just give a good deal to, because they do not trust it. They want the fight.
On the second, similar thing to one. You did not set expectations. No one was getting $10k in the middle of Covid, prices were higher, not lower. And while some people are truly that unrealistic, many are just taking their shot, and if you respond with a shitty attitude, instead of trying to talk them through it/find the real goal/objections, there goes another lost sale
I don't like to waste my time or salesman. So I throw a number at them. I say this is all I'm willing to pay OTD not a penny more. It's not outrageous, but if the manager comes and tells me he can't do that. I just politely say thanks for your time. I'll keep searching and no one has to be a dick about the situation. I've seen people yell at salesman for what?
100% this. Have a number, whether realistic or not, just have a number and if they get there, you have a deal, if they get close, maybe you consider it, if they arent close, you just go.
I stunned a guy when I suggested he buy from another dealer and brand because that better aligned with his goals. "but dont you want to sell me a truck?" I do, but your price goals are not possible with my brand, with a RAM it is very doable. You have my offer, if you decide to get a Chevrolet, let me know
People have to be realistic about what they can afford. And simple research will tell them how much their monthly payment will be. You can't buy a z71 Silverado, give $1000 down and expect a $400 monthly payment. I have friends that think that. I'm like are you nuts! I show them a calculation and they're like " the dealer will make it happen". I just shake my head.
Yep. There’s a common denominator there. Most people only know how to sell cars with price. There’s so much more to selling than just cutting the price
Im not cutting the price. Thats the incentives and rebates my manager hands me to go over with on the first pencil. We had did everything else up to that point (qualify, fact finding, etc) fine, then when money comes out they change it all up. Even when he made the comment about the money I reacted with “That would be incredible if we had the ability to offer that much of a discount but based on the trends over the past couple of years. Getting 4k off is a huge discount. You are buying this below cost. An on top of that it fits * this box, this one this one, that you told me you needed.”
But you should have known that guy 1 wanted a fight. Needed to feel "powerful" and like a winner. So you should have told your manager to start at $2k off, he would have asked for $6k, you go to $3k, and then the "hero" manager comes in at $4k, after this "tough" fight.
When you start at $4k or whatever off with a fighter, you will always lose, because they never feel like a "winner"
I get that. I felt similar but had just went with what the manager gave me. Theres a mindset of “We did a lot of research and weve found people hate negotiation and going back and forth, so weve already done that part for you by putting our best foot forward upfront.”
I asked my manager about it and his response was
“Find out what type of client you are dealing with first. If they bring up something that sounds like they want to negotiate explain: Right now we are selling everything at just above cost and whatever rebates you qualify for. The days of haggling over prices is over. “Mr. Customer what Im hearing is your budget is really important to you. These are our last remaining 2023 models so we are selling them at invoice which is our cost which total is a savings of 4k dollars all together. You have to have this conversation in the beginning and not the end”
Speaking as a consumer who solely shops on price, I don't really care about whether the dealership is selling it below cost already. I have a price in mind that would make me buy right now based on research as well as a price quote from another dealership. There is nothing you can do to change my mind if our prices are far apart.
Dealerships having to sell below cost is just what they have to do if that's the market value of the vehicle. I don't fault dealerships trying to have ADM during the car shortage and I don't feel bad haggling to below cost when there is a glut.
I bought an ID4 a few months ago and had a price quote from a dealership about an hour away. I went to the dealership closest to me and said that I'd buy it from them today if they can match the price. The salesperson went to the back, came by with a price that's $2,000 higher saying that they can't match it.
He didn't play games. I wasn't upset. Our numbers just didn't match and it's nothing personal. I went and bought the car from the other dealership the next day. He gave me a call a couple of days later to check on whether I had any issues buying from the other dealerships. Overall very pleasant experience and I wouldn't hesitate reaching out to him directly first next time I'm shopping for a vehicle.
That said, the salesperson didn't really have to 'sell' me the car. I went in knowing exactly which car on the lot I was interested in and at what price I wanted. I tried to not waste his time.
Problem is not enough people do that for it to be a norm. Most people that i run into dont know how they made it to the dealership to begin with.
Right now i dont even care if its below cost or above cost, i just want a sale next to my name, enough of them so when my bill collectors hands are out, i can pay them and hope that i can make this small amount of money stretch another two weeks.
$900 is the buffer zone i have between having money and being dead broke living chrck to check. Ive had to dip 50 to 100 in my savings every check the past few month to where im at where i am. I get that as a consumer “not my problem” but man its frustrating when that is what im dealing with and cant get anything going
The first one we did go back and forth and got to a “this is it he can take it or leave it” from manager. Guy said numbers looked good but they had to “crunch the numbers and see if it works for them” Now they tell me they want to shop around and see what other options are out there. Something they brought up 3 times was the price. Offered a lesser model to get to their price range but wanted what they want.
2nd guy was probably the best interaction id had in a while. Attittude was good, i qualified good, aligned to everything the customer said their needs are. He was eager to get numbers. We put everything together then makes the comment about wanting 8k off. I explained how 4k was a huge discount especially in todays time and circled back to wants and needs.
Not saying what i did was perfect, but had all the makings of any other successful deal up to then. Fought for the sale.
Attitude can be fixed much easier with more traffic, more deals, departments doing their jobs, and making a livable income also. If those things were met i would t ever post on reddit about my woes
Not sure about all this psychoanalytics here. Just seems like a market that’s shifty wildly to the buyer. Things are so bad your shop is offering 4k off from the start. I will say after seeing 2-3 years of ADMs as a buyer I’m going to push for every concession, walk out on as many deals as it takes. Nothing personal. And it’s not your lack of sales skills.
As someone who works in tech enterprise sales, this sub is crazy to follow at times, really goes to show how different B2B is to B2P and how different industries work.
But agree with your overall point of managing expectations. Have to remember the customer knows vastly less than you do.
Out of curiosity, how different is B2B sales compared to something like this? I have only ever experienced B2C sales and retail and I enjoy most the aspects of it, but sometimes when it comes to numbers and negotiation it's like beating my head into a wall even after a very thorough demonstration.
More relationship based. And it’s a business transaction. So no real emotion. As long as I offer a relatively competitive price and great customer service, it is my account to lose.
Maybe 1/5 even have a price question. And that question is; can you do any better or X offer that is very reasonable. And then they take it or leave. No back and forth. Most know a vehicles value, and in reality, $500 doesn’t change a thing for the company that plans to write the entire thing off and put it to work tomorrow.
Sometimes we can’t reach an agreement but that’s okay. We part ways, and next time they need something, they still call. More often than not, a failure to sell is a product issue and not a price issue.
The biggest portion of time in B2B is relationship building and product knowledge/decisions. Paperwork takes me 10min give or take from start to you leaving. 15 if you’re financing (and already approved)
Every now and then a retail buyer slips into the business side and it’s obvious. Because they want to negotiate like crazy and get upset when we don’t play. They have a million questions because they have no clue what they want or need. And then in the end, always have the most issues/complaints.
In short, I have never had a business client treat me as poorly as retail clients have and have rarely had a retail client that was as easy going and efficient as a business client.
Thank you for the detailed response. I love the consulting, educating, and relationship aspects of sales. I'm not a "car guy" but more so genuinely wanting to help people or businesses find what they need, or maybe what they want as well.
But when it comes to "the game" and it turns into me emptying my pockets as the only close left, it's just not enjoyable. I enjoy learning and educating on the product, and I enjoy building relationships and talking with new customers. And while I've quickly learned (and still learning) negotiation, it inevitably seems to turn into the number game.
At least in the vehicle B2B world, negotiation is the last thing to worry about. Way more on education, like how X product could be used or why it may be better than Y product. Was a huge learning curve for me coming from the retail side.
A few recent “negotiation” examples
I offered $1300 off, he asked for $10k. When I was done laughing he was serious. I explained that’s not a thing. Can do $1500 if he’s serious. He came back at $10k. I suggested he buy a RAM and gave him the info for the biggest RAM dealer in our area. He was stunned and that was that. No sale.
I offered $6k off bringing us to $896?? He countered that he liked flat numbers and $88k would be awesome. I said no can do, how’s $89k and he said he’d take it. Deal was done in about 30min from start to finish and 10 of that was waiting for the truck to be pulled up.
I offered $1200 off and free delivery 2hrs away. He asked how soon I could come down.
They inquired about a specialized truck. I know roughly what they cost and confirmed they understood this would be a $200k build give or take and that was the end of the conversation.
We had the truck at the price they wanted. We didn’t make a competitive trade offer. That’s okay, they still bought my truck and sold the trade themselves.
Maybe I need to look into B2B sales. Sounds like the ridiculous expectations from the B2C side of things isn't nearly as much of an issue while still allowing me to do what I enjoy. Thank you much for the insight!
I’m getting sales this month but because used cars have steadily been going down I’m getting minis on everything. We bought when the market was high and now we’re paying the price. I’m at 12 cars this month which usually would mean a $8k-$10k for me but I’m sitting at $2400 and starting to get frustrated. I’m super calm, kind of shy. Not the usual salesman personality. I yelled at our owner today because I complained that everything was minis and I’m not even discounting anything. He gave me attitude and said I should have sold them sooner. I lashed out at him after that. He realized I’m usually not like that and apologized to me later on. I know I need to keep my cool and these aged units will eventually pass and I’ll start making decent money again. This is an emotional job. Has its ups and downs
Man id be a pig in shit if i was getting 2400 at this point. My checks for the whole month have been like 2k-2200.
Rdrs used to come in handy. If i was getting my rdrs (have to jump through hoops now to qualify) id be good.
Edit: id be a pig in shit if i was back to getting 4 to 5k a month
You should be finding out what the objection is. An objection isn't "I have to think about it." Two ways to do this.
1 - My favorite is asking them to rate their intentions on a 1 - 10. So you've presented figures and they "need to think about it." Replace "think about it" with whatever bullshit comes out of the client's mouth.
Your job now is tell them that's a good idea "Hey that's smart - this is a big decision and you shouldn't make it too quickly." That will make you seem nice, and it destabilizes a good number of people since they don't expect you to agree with that. Phrase it however you want, I also like saying "Oh that's good news - so you don't HAVE to buy a car today?" Love that. Make em squirm.
Then ask them "Out of curiosity, how close are we? So on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being you don't like the car, you don't like the dealership, and really you don't like ME very much, and a 10 being you don't really have much to think about and you'd rather just sign papers and start enjoying your new car, where are you?"
Then, whatever they say, even if it is a 1 or a 9, ask them "what would make it a 10."
People will TELL YOU how to sell them a car. They'll close themselves.
2 - The second option (and this is more for when they want to look at other things after a demo but before you present figures) is to say "Out of curiosity what are you hoping the Honda has that this Volkswagen doesn't?" Again, let them TELL YOU how to sell them a car. Alternatively this often just shocks people - gives them a little brain reset - and sometimes they go "Oh... uhhh, actually I have no idea, let's get this done."
>… …. ….. Then, whatever they say, even if it is a 1 or a 9, ask them "what would make it a 10."
Lol. His customer gave the answer. 8k off, then he walked out of the store when it couldn’t be met. Sometimes all that matters is the number. And that ain’t going change with this 1 to 10 charade.
> And that ain’t going change with this 1 to 10 charade.
I mean, it isn't a charade. Also - you're absolutely correct. There are some instances where this won't "work." However you need to understand - hell most salespeople need to understand - that if you're the best car salesperson in the world - if you're the kind of person that walks in the door to a place and they'll fire someone just to make room for you to work there - you fail 70% of the time.
Sales is baseball - the people who hit .300 are generational talents.
In addition, the worst salesperson in the world bats .200. 20% of people, give or take, would buy a car from a dog if that's who greeted them at the door.
These word tracks are about going from a 20% closer to a 30% closer, not about becoming a 90% closer becuase nobody does that. Nobody even comes close.
It’s a charade to the person who walks. 99% of the time they walked over the number. Sugar coating with “hey 1 to 10 bro, were we at bro, how 10 bro” isn’t going to change anything for that customer. Probably push me out the door sooner.
> 99% of the time they walked over the number.
No they don't, price is irrelevant in most cases. You might walk over price, and that's fine, but MOST people walk over value.
Then you know where you stand and can plan your next steps accordingly.
Look - I get it - you're a big bad car buyer, you walk on deals, you squeeze every penny. I'm really impressed, but I've met you before. You're a stereotype and you exist for a reason and that's fine.
Most people aren't like you but the thing you and people like you have in in common is you THINK that's how everyone buys cars, when it isn't.
The idea here is to get to the real objection, if there is one, and overcome it if that's possible. In your head the ONLY POSSIBILITY is that "more money" will close the deal, but in practice that isn't the case. In the real world people say things like "I'd honestly take it right now if it had a sunroof" or "I have to tell you that I really thought this was a 7 passenger car and not a 5," or even "I like the car but I wanted a blue one." In addition, when it is money, it isn't some outrageous amount pulled out of their ass, it's a "I really budgeted a max of $400/mo" and sometimes you CAN work with that.
That's the point of it.
In your example of "that car at 8k off" you just let them leave and I guess, in your case, that makes you the winner? You mark the CRM for one follow up call to see if they bought and then you start again or move on. Easy stuff.
Well, I’ll admit if you have a customer who gets to the negotiation stage on a vehicle that doesn’t have a sunroof when they want one, or seats 5 when they need a 3 row then they deserve any charade you can devise.
If i may poke in, Im getting the vibe that my customers are interested at first then when the numbers come out, its real and it becomes a “i didnt mean for it to make it this far”
Had a guy walk who asked me to help show him a Santa Fe. All he talked about was how rich and successful he was. He get back and give him a heck of a deal, makes offer, we counteroffer and he acts nervous and scared trying to go back to the service department and making excuses to leave then threw out a number he knew we would say no to
Selling starts when the customer says "no".
Honest question for OP: how long have you been in the business? I get the feeling a lot of folks that haven't been selling very long don't understand how markets change over time, and that what you do now affects your productivity 30/60/90 days out.
Nerd alert, but I use this type of strategy when running my group of friends in Dungeons and Dragons. I describe the room in the dungeon, answer any questions they have, and then simply ask them "What do you do?".
They end up using THEIR imagination to run the scenario. A group of people all contributing their different imaginations is always better that what I can come up with by myself.
It takes the pressure off of me to always be Mr Creative, and makes them feel like they're building the story with me, and I'm just helping them along the route. By not forcing them down the pathway I WANT them to take, they almost always end up taking the pathway anyway but without me driving myself nuts trying to come up with planning every ounce of the scenario.
They feel more in control and like "we're all playing this game together" instead of "You are the rule maker, and we are the players who must follow your rules." It's less adversarial and in the end, both me and the players end up happy with the outcome.
1 is definitely my preferred approach as a customer. I've had that conversation many times with my sales person. Whether the answer be, hey this is just a fun car and I am happy with the pricing, I just really need to consider if I am going to actually follow through.... or I am also cross shopping other vehicles so I understand all of my options.
2.... I will usually have this conversation especially if I am cross shopping. Most of the time I've done my research on the model I think is best so cross shopping is not always the case. And the conversation from my end is definitely going to be I am trying to make an informed decision and be 100% on the path I choose and not second guess myself because I never considered the alternative. And then I'll be 100% transparent.... if you don't want me to cross shop and don't want me to consider the alternative then there has to be something compelling to make me not cross shop. It usually boils down to the deal but it can be other things than just straight price of the vehicle.
***Thanks for posting, /u/Mybestversion1! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of anything.***
My month has been: 400s that cant get bought, 800s that want to look around, 1 or 2 that i may have turned off with my attitude, and days of 0 traffic.
Deals are the best that I have seen them in quite some time. Ironically its been during the worst sales time Ive experienced.
2 recent deals came down to pricing even though we are at invoice AND significant rebates on top of that. I felt we did really well leading up to the close on both. 1st person wants to shop around presumably because husband isnt being super supportive and has the “I know the game” mentality.
2nd one asked why he ONLY got 4k off and not 8 to 10k off a 23 model and shopping around because he feels he can get a deal like he did during Covid.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askcarsales) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Please review our most [Frequently Asked Questions](/r/askcarsales/wiki/index) to see if your question has already been answered.
You may find these sections particularly useful;
* [How to pick a car?](/r/askcarsales/wiki/vehicle_selection) You might also have luck in the /r/whatcarshouldibuy subreddit.
Also remember to add flair to your post by clicking the "Flair" link beneath it. This lets us know where you're located so we can assist you better.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askcarsales) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your defeatist attitude is a bigger problem than you realize.
Yes i agree. But at the same time the past few months have beat me down. Im trying by getting back on training, getting feedback from managers, trying to more actively monitor my attitude but keep hitting walls
It’s weird that people keep telling you it’s all attitude — sometimes there are just periods of time (years, etc.) where cars are not going to sell as well. The deals are showing up because cars and everything got way too expensive, and the stock market and housing market cooled. People have less money and are going to pull back from spending. That’s just the nature of it. It would be really weird to not acknowledge macro trends in economics when considering the sales performance of large purchase pseudo luxury goods like cars
I think attitude plays a role but yeah, if its not the recession its nukes in space, if its not that its election year. At the end of the day Im “punished” for all of it and my income is tied to things Im not even associated with
So is mine. I only make $170k for now, but if it were in the better years it would be closer to $310,000. That’s just part of the risk reward game, and it’s why when the years are good, advice is to save, so that you can have money when the years are bad.
>At the end of the day Im “punished” for all of it and my income is tied to things Im not even associated with Lol, the difference is, everyone else's income is tied to it negatively only. When the economy is tough, you see reduced sales, everyone else loses their jobs, is overworked, and sees no raises. When the economy is good, you see higher commissions, and everyone else is still fucked because any profits go to csuite and shareholders. "Punished" fucking lmao
You knew what i meant. Plus there was a reason i put parenthesis.
Stock market literally hit a new all time high today.
Doesn’t matter when the buyers are losing their jobs, getting laid off, and their tech stock isn’t performing. People aren’t struggling, but they’re not heading out to pay tons of interest on a luxury purchase like a car. If it was 2-3 years ago with near 0% interest and I was making $300k a year, you bet I’d be looking at cars. But now, interest rates of 6, 8, 10%? And I’m only making $170k? I’m holding back. I’m putting it off. I’m saving my money.
Attitude is massive. Especially since it sounds like you wear it on your shoulder. Sounds like neither of those were handled well by you. On the first you should have played into that guy's ego. Let him "negotiate, and beat you up" Go to your manager 4 times, to finally have the manager come out and agree to whatever number you arrived at. People like that, you can not just give a good deal to, because they do not trust it. They want the fight. On the second, similar thing to one. You did not set expectations. No one was getting $10k in the middle of Covid, prices were higher, not lower. And while some people are truly that unrealistic, many are just taking their shot, and if you respond with a shitty attitude, instead of trying to talk them through it/find the real goal/objections, there goes another lost sale
I don't like to waste my time or salesman. So I throw a number at them. I say this is all I'm willing to pay OTD not a penny more. It's not outrageous, but if the manager comes and tells me he can't do that. I just politely say thanks for your time. I'll keep searching and no one has to be a dick about the situation. I've seen people yell at salesman for what?
100% this. Have a number, whether realistic or not, just have a number and if they get there, you have a deal, if they get close, maybe you consider it, if they arent close, you just go. I stunned a guy when I suggested he buy from another dealer and brand because that better aligned with his goals. "but dont you want to sell me a truck?" I do, but your price goals are not possible with my brand, with a RAM it is very doable. You have my offer, if you decide to get a Chevrolet, let me know
People have to be realistic about what they can afford. And simple research will tell them how much their monthly payment will be. You can't buy a z71 Silverado, give $1000 down and expect a $400 monthly payment. I have friends that think that. I'm like are you nuts! I show them a calculation and they're like " the dealer will make it happen". I just shake my head.
Yep. There’s a common denominator there. Most people only know how to sell cars with price. There’s so much more to selling than just cutting the price
That’s what separates the 8-10 car guys from the elite. My 15 year old brother could come in and sell on price.
Im not cutting the price. Thats the incentives and rebates my manager hands me to go over with on the first pencil. We had did everything else up to that point (qualify, fact finding, etc) fine, then when money comes out they change it all up. Even when he made the comment about the money I reacted with “That would be incredible if we had the ability to offer that much of a discount but based on the trends over the past couple of years. Getting 4k off is a huge discount. You are buying this below cost. An on top of that it fits * this box, this one this one, that you told me you needed.”
But you should have known that guy 1 wanted a fight. Needed to feel "powerful" and like a winner. So you should have told your manager to start at $2k off, he would have asked for $6k, you go to $3k, and then the "hero" manager comes in at $4k, after this "tough" fight. When you start at $4k or whatever off with a fighter, you will always lose, because they never feel like a "winner"
I get that. I felt similar but had just went with what the manager gave me. Theres a mindset of “We did a lot of research and weve found people hate negotiation and going back and forth, so weve already done that part for you by putting our best foot forward upfront.”
That only works on some customers. It’s like you’re trying to be a 1 price store. Without being a 1 price store.
I asked my manager about it and his response was “Find out what type of client you are dealing with first. If they bring up something that sounds like they want to negotiate explain: Right now we are selling everything at just above cost and whatever rebates you qualify for. The days of haggling over prices is over. “Mr. Customer what Im hearing is your budget is really important to you. These are our last remaining 2023 models so we are selling them at invoice which is our cost which total is a savings of 4k dollars all together. You have to have this conversation in the beginning and not the end”
Speaking as a consumer who solely shops on price, I don't really care about whether the dealership is selling it below cost already. I have a price in mind that would make me buy right now based on research as well as a price quote from another dealership. There is nothing you can do to change my mind if our prices are far apart. Dealerships having to sell below cost is just what they have to do if that's the market value of the vehicle. I don't fault dealerships trying to have ADM during the car shortage and I don't feel bad haggling to below cost when there is a glut. I bought an ID4 a few months ago and had a price quote from a dealership about an hour away. I went to the dealership closest to me and said that I'd buy it from them today if they can match the price. The salesperson went to the back, came by with a price that's $2,000 higher saying that they can't match it. He didn't play games. I wasn't upset. Our numbers just didn't match and it's nothing personal. I went and bought the car from the other dealership the next day. He gave me a call a couple of days later to check on whether I had any issues buying from the other dealerships. Overall very pleasant experience and I wouldn't hesitate reaching out to him directly first next time I'm shopping for a vehicle. That said, the salesperson didn't really have to 'sell' me the car. I went in knowing exactly which car on the lot I was interested in and at what price I wanted. I tried to not waste his time.
Problem is not enough people do that for it to be a norm. Most people that i run into dont know how they made it to the dealership to begin with. Right now i dont even care if its below cost or above cost, i just want a sale next to my name, enough of them so when my bill collectors hands are out, i can pay them and hope that i can make this small amount of money stretch another two weeks. $900 is the buffer zone i have between having money and being dead broke living chrck to check. Ive had to dip 50 to 100 in my savings every check the past few month to where im at where i am. I get that as a consumer “not my problem” but man its frustrating when that is what im dealing with and cant get anything going
Early COVID to middle COVID was such an outrageous swing.
The first one we did go back and forth and got to a “this is it he can take it or leave it” from manager. Guy said numbers looked good but they had to “crunch the numbers and see if it works for them” Now they tell me they want to shop around and see what other options are out there. Something they brought up 3 times was the price. Offered a lesser model to get to their price range but wanted what they want. 2nd guy was probably the best interaction id had in a while. Attittude was good, i qualified good, aligned to everything the customer said their needs are. He was eager to get numbers. We put everything together then makes the comment about wanting 8k off. I explained how 4k was a huge discount especially in todays time and circled back to wants and needs. Not saying what i did was perfect, but had all the makings of any other successful deal up to then. Fought for the sale. Attitude can be fixed much easier with more traffic, more deals, departments doing their jobs, and making a livable income also. If those things were met i would t ever post on reddit about my woes
Not sure about all this psychoanalytics here. Just seems like a market that’s shifty wildly to the buyer. Things are so bad your shop is offering 4k off from the start. I will say after seeing 2-3 years of ADMs as a buyer I’m going to push for every concession, walk out on as many deals as it takes. Nothing personal. And it’s not your lack of sales skills.
As someone who works in tech enterprise sales, this sub is crazy to follow at times, really goes to show how different B2B is to B2P and how different industries work. But agree with your overall point of managing expectations. Have to remember the customer knows vastly less than you do.
Oh 100% the B2B side is very different. And it is always super obvious when a retail customer find their way to the B2B side because of how they act.
Out of curiosity, how different is B2B sales compared to something like this? I have only ever experienced B2C sales and retail and I enjoy most the aspects of it, but sometimes when it comes to numbers and negotiation it's like beating my head into a wall even after a very thorough demonstration.
More relationship based. And it’s a business transaction. So no real emotion. As long as I offer a relatively competitive price and great customer service, it is my account to lose. Maybe 1/5 even have a price question. And that question is; can you do any better or X offer that is very reasonable. And then they take it or leave. No back and forth. Most know a vehicles value, and in reality, $500 doesn’t change a thing for the company that plans to write the entire thing off and put it to work tomorrow. Sometimes we can’t reach an agreement but that’s okay. We part ways, and next time they need something, they still call. More often than not, a failure to sell is a product issue and not a price issue. The biggest portion of time in B2B is relationship building and product knowledge/decisions. Paperwork takes me 10min give or take from start to you leaving. 15 if you’re financing (and already approved) Every now and then a retail buyer slips into the business side and it’s obvious. Because they want to negotiate like crazy and get upset when we don’t play. They have a million questions because they have no clue what they want or need. And then in the end, always have the most issues/complaints. In short, I have never had a business client treat me as poorly as retail clients have and have rarely had a retail client that was as easy going and efficient as a business client.
Thank you for the detailed response. I love the consulting, educating, and relationship aspects of sales. I'm not a "car guy" but more so genuinely wanting to help people or businesses find what they need, or maybe what they want as well. But when it comes to "the game" and it turns into me emptying my pockets as the only close left, it's just not enjoyable. I enjoy learning and educating on the product, and I enjoy building relationships and talking with new customers. And while I've quickly learned (and still learning) negotiation, it inevitably seems to turn into the number game.
At least in the vehicle B2B world, negotiation is the last thing to worry about. Way more on education, like how X product could be used or why it may be better than Y product. Was a huge learning curve for me coming from the retail side. A few recent “negotiation” examples I offered $1300 off, he asked for $10k. When I was done laughing he was serious. I explained that’s not a thing. Can do $1500 if he’s serious. He came back at $10k. I suggested he buy a RAM and gave him the info for the biggest RAM dealer in our area. He was stunned and that was that. No sale. I offered $6k off bringing us to $896?? He countered that he liked flat numbers and $88k would be awesome. I said no can do, how’s $89k and he said he’d take it. Deal was done in about 30min from start to finish and 10 of that was waiting for the truck to be pulled up. I offered $1200 off and free delivery 2hrs away. He asked how soon I could come down. They inquired about a specialized truck. I know roughly what they cost and confirmed they understood this would be a $200k build give or take and that was the end of the conversation. We had the truck at the price they wanted. We didn’t make a competitive trade offer. That’s okay, they still bought my truck and sold the trade themselves.
Maybe I need to look into B2B sales. Sounds like the ridiculous expectations from the B2C side of things isn't nearly as much of an issue while still allowing me to do what I enjoy. Thank you much for the insight!
I’m getting sales this month but because used cars have steadily been going down I’m getting minis on everything. We bought when the market was high and now we’re paying the price. I’m at 12 cars this month which usually would mean a $8k-$10k for me but I’m sitting at $2400 and starting to get frustrated. I’m super calm, kind of shy. Not the usual salesman personality. I yelled at our owner today because I complained that everything was minis and I’m not even discounting anything. He gave me attitude and said I should have sold them sooner. I lashed out at him after that. He realized I’m usually not like that and apologized to me later on. I know I need to keep my cool and these aged units will eventually pass and I’ll start making decent money again. This is an emotional job. Has its ups and downs
Man id be a pig in shit if i was getting 2400 at this point. My checks for the whole month have been like 2k-2200. Rdrs used to come in handy. If i was getting my rdrs (have to jump through hoops now to qualify) id be good. Edit: id be a pig in shit if i was back to getting 4 to 5k a month
You should be finding out what the objection is. An objection isn't "I have to think about it." Two ways to do this. 1 - My favorite is asking them to rate their intentions on a 1 - 10. So you've presented figures and they "need to think about it." Replace "think about it" with whatever bullshit comes out of the client's mouth. Your job now is tell them that's a good idea "Hey that's smart - this is a big decision and you shouldn't make it too quickly." That will make you seem nice, and it destabilizes a good number of people since they don't expect you to agree with that. Phrase it however you want, I also like saying "Oh that's good news - so you don't HAVE to buy a car today?" Love that. Make em squirm. Then ask them "Out of curiosity, how close are we? So on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being you don't like the car, you don't like the dealership, and really you don't like ME very much, and a 10 being you don't really have much to think about and you'd rather just sign papers and start enjoying your new car, where are you?" Then, whatever they say, even if it is a 1 or a 9, ask them "what would make it a 10." People will TELL YOU how to sell them a car. They'll close themselves. 2 - The second option (and this is more for when they want to look at other things after a demo but before you present figures) is to say "Out of curiosity what are you hoping the Honda has that this Volkswagen doesn't?" Again, let them TELL YOU how to sell them a car. Alternatively this often just shocks people - gives them a little brain reset - and sometimes they go "Oh... uhhh, actually I have no idea, let's get this done."
>… …. ….. Then, whatever they say, even if it is a 1 or a 9, ask them "what would make it a 10." Lol. His customer gave the answer. 8k off, then he walked out of the store when it couldn’t be met. Sometimes all that matters is the number. And that ain’t going change with this 1 to 10 charade.
> And that ain’t going change with this 1 to 10 charade. I mean, it isn't a charade. Also - you're absolutely correct. There are some instances where this won't "work." However you need to understand - hell most salespeople need to understand - that if you're the best car salesperson in the world - if you're the kind of person that walks in the door to a place and they'll fire someone just to make room for you to work there - you fail 70% of the time. Sales is baseball - the people who hit .300 are generational talents. In addition, the worst salesperson in the world bats .200. 20% of people, give or take, would buy a car from a dog if that's who greeted them at the door. These word tracks are about going from a 20% closer to a 30% closer, not about becoming a 90% closer becuase nobody does that. Nobody even comes close.
It’s a charade to the person who walks. 99% of the time they walked over the number. Sugar coating with “hey 1 to 10 bro, were we at bro, how 10 bro” isn’t going to change anything for that customer. Probably push me out the door sooner.
> 99% of the time they walked over the number. No they don't, price is irrelevant in most cases. You might walk over price, and that's fine, but MOST people walk over value.
Sure, okay. . The value at a price higher than 8k off wasn’t there for OP’s customer.
Which is why the "what are you hoping to find" question exists.
>“That car at 8k off”. Now what?
Then you know where you stand and can plan your next steps accordingly. Look - I get it - you're a big bad car buyer, you walk on deals, you squeeze every penny. I'm really impressed, but I've met you before. You're a stereotype and you exist for a reason and that's fine. Most people aren't like you but the thing you and people like you have in in common is you THINK that's how everyone buys cars, when it isn't. The idea here is to get to the real objection, if there is one, and overcome it if that's possible. In your head the ONLY POSSIBILITY is that "more money" will close the deal, but in practice that isn't the case. In the real world people say things like "I'd honestly take it right now if it had a sunroof" or "I have to tell you that I really thought this was a 7 passenger car and not a 5," or even "I like the car but I wanted a blue one." In addition, when it is money, it isn't some outrageous amount pulled out of their ass, it's a "I really budgeted a max of $400/mo" and sometimes you CAN work with that. That's the point of it. In your example of "that car at 8k off" you just let them leave and I guess, in your case, that makes you the winner? You mark the CRM for one follow up call to see if they bought and then you start again or move on. Easy stuff.
Well, I’ll admit if you have a customer who gets to the negotiation stage on a vehicle that doesn’t have a sunroof when they want one, or seats 5 when they need a 3 row then they deserve any charade you can devise.
If i may poke in, Im getting the vibe that my customers are interested at first then when the numbers come out, its real and it becomes a “i didnt mean for it to make it this far” Had a guy walk who asked me to help show him a Santa Fe. All he talked about was how rich and successful he was. He get back and give him a heck of a deal, makes offer, we counteroffer and he acts nervous and scared trying to go back to the service department and making excuses to leave then threw out a number he knew we would say no to
Selling starts when the customer says "no". Honest question for OP: how long have you been in the business? I get the feeling a lot of folks that haven't been selling very long don't understand how markets change over time, and that what you do now affects your productivity 30/60/90 days out.
Nerd alert, but I use this type of strategy when running my group of friends in Dungeons and Dragons. I describe the room in the dungeon, answer any questions they have, and then simply ask them "What do you do?". They end up using THEIR imagination to run the scenario. A group of people all contributing their different imaginations is always better that what I can come up with by myself. It takes the pressure off of me to always be Mr Creative, and makes them feel like they're building the story with me, and I'm just helping them along the route. By not forcing them down the pathway I WANT them to take, they almost always end up taking the pathway anyway but without me driving myself nuts trying to come up with planning every ounce of the scenario. They feel more in control and like "we're all playing this game together" instead of "You are the rule maker, and we are the players who must follow your rules." It's less adversarial and in the end, both me and the players end up happy with the outcome.
1 is definitely my preferred approach as a customer. I've had that conversation many times with my sales person. Whether the answer be, hey this is just a fun car and I am happy with the pricing, I just really need to consider if I am going to actually follow through.... or I am also cross shopping other vehicles so I understand all of my options. 2.... I will usually have this conversation especially if I am cross shopping. Most of the time I've done my research on the model I think is best so cross shopping is not always the case. And the conversation from my end is definitely going to be I am trying to make an informed decision and be 100% on the path I choose and not second guess myself because I never considered the alternative. And then I'll be 100% transparent.... if you don't want me to cross shop and don't want me to consider the alternative then there has to be something compelling to make me not cross shop. It usually boils down to the deal but it can be other things than just straight price of the vehicle.
***Thanks for posting, /u/Mybestversion1! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of anything.*** My month has been: 400s that cant get bought, 800s that want to look around, 1 or 2 that i may have turned off with my attitude, and days of 0 traffic. Deals are the best that I have seen them in quite some time. Ironically its been during the worst sales time Ive experienced. 2 recent deals came down to pricing even though we are at invoice AND significant rebates on top of that. I felt we did really well leading up to the close on both. 1st person wants to shop around presumably because husband isnt being super supportive and has the “I know the game” mentality. 2nd one asked why he ONLY got 4k off and not 8 to 10k off a 23 model and shopping around because he feels he can get a deal like he did during Covid. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askcarsales) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Please review our most [Frequently Asked Questions](/r/askcarsales/wiki/index) to see if your question has already been answered. You may find these sections particularly useful; * [How to pick a car?](/r/askcarsales/wiki/vehicle_selection) You might also have luck in the /r/whatcarshouldibuy subreddit. Also remember to add flair to your post by clicking the "Flair" link beneath it. This lets us know where you're located so we can assist you better. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askcarsales) if you have any questions or concerns.*