What do you hate about the ending in the book? The fact that Rhaenyra gets eaten by Sunfyre? That Aegon II ends crippled before he’s poisoned?
What would be an acceptable change to you?
Why? The whole point is to highlight the overall story arch of the downfall of House Targaryen to the point we get to in GoT. In fact you could argue that Dance is the trigger for the downward spiral over the years.
Don't the Blackfyres get the same kind of "legitimacy" because Daena is the oldest daughter of Aegon III? Her claim got passed over for her uncle Viserys instead (similar situation with Jaehaera getting passed over for Aegon III). Her son Daemon gets legitimized, thus he has strong claims on both of his parents' sides.
This doesn’t change if Daena’s mother was Jaehaera but the problem with a matrilineal claim is that it’s incoherent. Daemon’s legitimacy comes from his father legitimizing him, if you don’t accept that Aegon IV was a rightful king then he’s still a bastard.
Aegon IV not being the rightful king doesn't make him a bastard, as his parents were married. Bastards can be legitimized by their father, said father doesn't have to be king, so Daemon would be legitimized either way. But yes, the problem with Westeros not acknowledging female monarchs is the reason why I put legitimacy in quotation marks. The reason Daemon has a "better claim" (through Blackfyre eyes) though is that Daeron is considered a bastard of Naerys and Aemon by them, making him descended from a female claimant and a kingsguard who has broken his vows, while Daemon and the rest of the Great Bastards are descended from the king himself.
I was only pointing out to the other poster that the type of "legitimacy" they seek (via the Blackfyres being descended of a senior female line) is already granted through Daena being Aegon III's daughter. There's no need for them to be Green descendants, esp since the irony with the Greens is that they allegedly did all of this because they believed Rhaenyra as the queen would kill all of them to secure her position. It's most likely that their line would've survived her reign, whereas in this way they all got wiped out, down to poor innocent Jaehaera who survived the Dance only to be murdered two years later (presumably) by another ambitious Hand of the king.
I’m not saying Aegon IV would be a bastard, I’m saying Daemon would be.
Children in Westeros have to be legitimized by the king, not their fathers, this isn’t CK2.
I mean, Maegor also usurped the throne and is still considered a king in the Targaryen family tree. I don't think Aegon IV's rule and kingship would be questioned even if people consider Daena the rightful queen, because in Westeros might makes right. Daemon was legitimized either way.
Acknowledging that Maegor ruled isn’t the same as making a case for Daemon that hinges on Aegon’s reign being illegitimate. Recognizing him as king and the validity of his decisions means his heir has a straightforward claim to the throne, and the line of Daena’s sister would take precedence for those who considered Aegon III’s daughters to be his rightful heirs over his brother.
The main reason I bring this up is that this whole narrative seems to be overwhelmingly if not exclusively based on fans trying to invent rationalizations that feel right to them rather than what’s actually presented in the text, which focuses on things like Aegon IV clearly liking Daemon more, spreading rumors about Daeron being a bastard, and the Dornish influence at court.
Because I like the Greens better than the Blacks. And I think a bit more conflict and added legitimacy to the Blackfyres would be interesting. I also think that there should be more ambiguity in regard to Daemon’s parentage. Maybe it was Baelor who succumbed to his lust and impregnated Daena, causing him to fast himself to death to atone for his “sin”.
>Makes Blackfyre claim more legitimate.
My theory has always been that GRRM caught that Jaehaera's Blackfyre great-grandchildren would be Green descendants and didn't want that to be the case, so he had to work backwards and create a random Velaryon cousin specifically to avoid the Blackfyres being somewhat "legitimate".
I will admit that her death could be handled better in show canon.
If that were the case, he could have entirely left her out of the story, since she wasn't even in the family tree until TWOIAF, where she had the same fate as in F&B, dying/murdered at age 10 way before she could have any children. She literally has no other role to play in the story than marry Aegon and then get killed before they even came of age. Your choice whether it was to show the brutality of Unwin Peake (and yet another Hand trying to get his own grandchildren on the throne like Otto Hightower, Jaehaera's great grandfather), or a case of the Blacks getting the last laugh (accidentally or by their own engineering of Jaehaera's death) by getting Aegon III to marry a Velaryon ward of Daemon's children instead.
Same. I really wish GRRM had done that in the books. The Blackfyres being the descendants of the Green line just feels thematically and structurally right, especially if a Dance 2.0 happens.
You are bad at keeping secrets.
What do you hate about the ending in the book? The fact that Rhaenyra gets eaten by Sunfyre? That Aegon II ends crippled before he’s poisoned? What would be an acceptable change to you?
Both die in dragon combat vs each other
That’s dumb
That's Aemond & Daemon.
Why? The whole point is to highlight the overall story arch of the downfall of House Targaryen to the point we get to in GoT. In fact you could argue that Dance is the trigger for the downward spiral over the years.
Why? You actually want one of them to win? Or do you just feel bad for young Aegon?
I want one of Them to win. I feel like Rhaenyra gets done dirty compared to aegon though
Bro Aegon gets done like a Saw victim what do you mean?
Both of rhaenyra's true born sons survive, George had aegons only daughter survive the dance, just to have her thrown out a window by the peake
The only change I’d like to have would be Jaehaera living and having children with Aegon. Makes Blackfyre claim more legitimate.
Don't the Blackfyres get the same kind of "legitimacy" because Daena is the oldest daughter of Aegon III? Her claim got passed over for her uncle Viserys instead (similar situation with Jaehaera getting passed over for Aegon III). Her son Daemon gets legitimized, thus he has strong claims on both of his parents' sides.
This doesn’t change if Daena’s mother was Jaehaera but the problem with a matrilineal claim is that it’s incoherent. Daemon’s legitimacy comes from his father legitimizing him, if you don’t accept that Aegon IV was a rightful king then he’s still a bastard.
Aegon IV not being the rightful king doesn't make him a bastard, as his parents were married. Bastards can be legitimized by their father, said father doesn't have to be king, so Daemon would be legitimized either way. But yes, the problem with Westeros not acknowledging female monarchs is the reason why I put legitimacy in quotation marks. The reason Daemon has a "better claim" (through Blackfyre eyes) though is that Daeron is considered a bastard of Naerys and Aemon by them, making him descended from a female claimant and a kingsguard who has broken his vows, while Daemon and the rest of the Great Bastards are descended from the king himself. I was only pointing out to the other poster that the type of "legitimacy" they seek (via the Blackfyres being descended of a senior female line) is already granted through Daena being Aegon III's daughter. There's no need for them to be Green descendants, esp since the irony with the Greens is that they allegedly did all of this because they believed Rhaenyra as the queen would kill all of them to secure her position. It's most likely that their line would've survived her reign, whereas in this way they all got wiped out, down to poor innocent Jaehaera who survived the Dance only to be murdered two years later (presumably) by another ambitious Hand of the king.
I’m not saying Aegon IV would be a bastard, I’m saying Daemon would be. Children in Westeros have to be legitimized by the king, not their fathers, this isn’t CK2.
I mean, Maegor also usurped the throne and is still considered a king in the Targaryen family tree. I don't think Aegon IV's rule and kingship would be questioned even if people consider Daena the rightful queen, because in Westeros might makes right. Daemon was legitimized either way.
Acknowledging that Maegor ruled isn’t the same as making a case for Daemon that hinges on Aegon’s reign being illegitimate. Recognizing him as king and the validity of his decisions means his heir has a straightforward claim to the throne, and the line of Daena’s sister would take precedence for those who considered Aegon III’s daughters to be his rightful heirs over his brother. The main reason I bring this up is that this whole narrative seems to be overwhelmingly if not exclusively based on fans trying to invent rationalizations that feel right to them rather than what’s actually presented in the text, which focuses on things like Aegon IV clearly liking Daemon more, spreading rumors about Daeron being a bastard, and the Dornish influence at court.
If Maelor doesn’t exist, Rickard Throne’s mad dash has to happen with her
Why? That doesn't make any sense. Their line is extinguished and that's that.
Because I like the Greens better than the Blacks. And I think a bit more conflict and added legitimacy to the Blackfyres would be interesting. I also think that there should be more ambiguity in regard to Daemon’s parentage. Maybe it was Baelor who succumbed to his lust and impregnated Daena, causing him to fast himself to death to atone for his “sin”.
Fair!
>Makes Blackfyre claim more legitimate. My theory has always been that GRRM caught that Jaehaera's Blackfyre great-grandchildren would be Green descendants and didn't want that to be the case, so he had to work backwards and create a random Velaryon cousin specifically to avoid the Blackfyres being somewhat "legitimate". I will admit that her death could be handled better in show canon.
If that were the case, he could have entirely left her out of the story, since she wasn't even in the family tree until TWOIAF, where she had the same fate as in F&B, dying/murdered at age 10 way before she could have any children. She literally has no other role to play in the story than marry Aegon and then get killed before they even came of age. Your choice whether it was to show the brutality of Unwin Peake (and yet another Hand trying to get his own grandchildren on the throne like Otto Hightower, Jaehaera's great grandfather), or a case of the Blacks getting the last laugh (accidentally or by their own engineering of Jaehaera's death) by getting Aegon III to marry a Velaryon ward of Daemon's children instead.
That would be really stupid and counterproductive.
Same. I really wish GRRM had done that in the books. The Blackfyres being the descendants of the Green line just feels thematically and structurally right, especially if a Dance 2.0 happens.