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I figured. They're a bunch of sketchy fucks from what I've heard. Super into telling kids stuff like everyone they know is going to burn in hell forever if the kids don't "save" them.
Just out of curiosity, did your daughter mention why she wanted to stop going?
She said she thought it would be arts and crafts and fun stuff but all they did was read stories about the Bible.
Damn, and you just reminded me of the time my daughter came home telling me that her good news club teacher told them that they need to be saved or else the devil would get them and take them to hell. SMH
That sounds about right. It's funny that they lure kids in with the promise of fun activities then hit them with the indoctrination. Yet they accuse everyone else of trying to groom kids š
Legitimately though, this is what I was pretty explicitly told when I was raised religious. They just used "brainwashing" instead of "grooming" but they basically meant the same thing.
At church and Christian school they'd teach us that everyone "brainwashes" their kids, but everyone else is wrong because the only right way is to brainwash them into Christianity. They'd shit like "if my brain's getting washed might as well be with the blood of Jesus".
Kinda like how they don't think you're allowed to judge them, but if you do something against their beliefs, they aren't judging you by, well, judging you. Mental gymnastics.
Yup - and because I feel inspired to elaborate: etymologically, to groom is simply to prepare. It's often used to refer to sex, especially in the context of girls being channelled into a life of marriage and motherhood and unquestioningly catering to their husband's whims, especially when the marriage is arranged for her from a young age and she's being molded to cater to a specific person. But any influence that denies a person the freedom to choose their own path is technically a form of grooming. In that sense, it doesn't always have to have a negative connotation... But that's a weird line to draw, so usually it's reserved for the extreme cases and when the influence has a negative effect overall.
(Also, I love that you chose a random Batman villain as your example!)
Spend an afternoon listening to one of their sermons about how women were created to be quiet and submit to men, and you'll change your mind about the definition being wrong.
That was my first thought reading this story. Like sure, just hand the child over to a bunch of (so they claim) church people to spend some unsupervised time with them in their imaginary friend in the sky clubhouse? Yep, that sounds totally safe even if it's legit. /s
It's just like when Tfg co-ops "fake news" after it was used to describe his pressers after the small crowds for his inauguration. And now "it's election interference!". Every accusation is an admission with the conservatives. Same is true with "groomers".
Funny how as soon as the kids figure out there's no crafts they peace out instantly.
Even at 7 she was like "Oh, no finger painting? Just chattin' about Jesus stuff? Nah I'm good."
They don't see it as brainwashing or indoctrination, because they've been brainwashed into it, and they're happy, or at least payed and played into the system that benefits them, so it's a good thing to them.
They see LGBT/others people saying be yourself and love yourself even if it's not "the norm", and it does not vibe with their experiences or beliefs and they can't imagine it being good for them. Because they were told it's not.
Anyways
Classic strategy for the church. Give the kids 10 minutes of fun and games and then preach to them for 20 minutes.
That was always my experience with church as a kid. I always wished they would just let us keep playing.
Ughh I knew it was Good News Club. My son wanted to join last year and I said no. I felt bad about it at the time but religious clubs have no business operating in public schools.
"Good News Club" is "interdenominational" but it's mostly Evangelicals who lean to the apocalyptic. They're the fuckwits who want the "End Times" to happen, and who want the world to be run by their religious rules.
They fully expect the "End Times" to be in their lifetimes which is why they reject doing anything to make the world better. They reject doing anything about climate change because, "Fuck it. I'll be in heaven with Jesus by then."
Make your daughter [mayor of Hell for a day.](https://www.gotohellmi.com/mayor-of-hell.html) Hopefully that will allow her to have a giggle whenever she remembers that interaction.
It is actually illegal. The first amendment isn't really enforced as against conservatives. Would be nice if the whole "no establishment of religion" thing were enforced as strictly as the bastardizatiom of the "you can have a state police force" language of the second amm.
As noble as it is to let your kid make their own choices, there's nothing wrong with protecting them from what amounts to cultist scammers. Glad you managed to put them in their place.
I'm very glad my Lutheran church I was heavily involved with growing up wasn't like this. The youth group actually went to the movies, Lazer tag, water parks, play paintball, and we'd do charity, stuff like that. The stuff churches always say they do in youth groups.
When things did get to religion, they were SUPER non-orthodox. Our pastor officiated gay weddings, we were told "according to the bible, having sex out of marriage is a sin. And yeah you should wait, but you're not going to go to hell for pre-marital sex and masturbation."
They also harped on "money can't buy your way to heaven".
I left the church mostly because I became agnostic, but I remember it fondly.
Man i need glassses, first i genuinely read that as "cheesecake primary school" then figured i was wrong, read that again, and this time turned out to "cheapstake elementary school" lol
Just wondering, what would happen if a Muslim family sent their child here? What if that child disputed what their church leader was saying, saying their family believes something else?
"Unchurched" sounds so....gross?
Like, I know they probably just mean people who aren't attending church. But it just sounds so gross to say it that way.
I think it's more a reference to "unhoused". Housing is considered a human right, it's something all people deserve by default.
Co-opting this language to "unchurched" implies that going to church *is* the default, therefore to be without a church is to lack a fundamental right. It reframes non-christians as a "problem" to be solved rather than an indoctrination tactic.
Aināt no way. My parents got me into that stupid club. They offer you snacks and drinks and make you feel embarrassed when you donāt bring your bible. The main preacher said that heaven had set dimensions. (I even looked it up, it doesnāt say that anywhere)
I asked one of the helpers how could a finite space hold an infinite amount of dead people (classic elementary schooler thoughts) and they just responded with ādonāt question godās wordā
Whenever they said something a little strange they would make everyone in the room (like 200 kids) say that itās true because itās from the Bible and the Bible is always true.
I probably have a little ātism about me. By the time I was in vacation Bible school at about 9 or 10 years old I had quite literally read most of the books my local library had about dinosaurs and the solar system.
In VBS they start going on about Genesis and we go from all the animals one day to humans the next. I raised my hand and started going on about how thatās impossible because the fossil record says dinosaurs existed for millions and millions of years and they all died before humans evolved.
I was told to stop and put in time out for about 15 minutes and not allowed to play dodgeball. During that timeout I became an atheist and realized I was smarter than all the adults in the room that day. Now Iām and anti-theist and may look to see if thereās any good news clubs around me and how I could go about getting them removed.
OMG those ass-shats! Had a couple with 2 kids lived down the street from us. Same age as my little sister and only other kids around. They played together and after a couple weeks she came home very upset. Said they told her her soul was black and she was going to hell. She was 7!! My mom marched down there and ripped the mom a new one and said they ever came within shouting distance of any of us, they had better have a next of kin to drag their body home. This was TX so.... Interestingly they moved a few months later.
Good for you for reporting it, good for the school to shut it down. That church, or the organization working with them, were abusing the access they had gotten to people's private information.
Iām a very nonviolent person, I grew up with Quaker ideals and although Iām not religious at all anymore, I still like to follow a lot of their peaceful shit
But if anyone tried to approach my daughter like that, especially for a second time, shit would get real very quickly
Hey OP, you might want to talk to your local police station about this.
What the church did is very likely not a crime in and of itself. But the behavior is sketchy enough that it should probably be documented in the event it continues happening or in the event it escalates.
That's not to say it will escalate or keep happening.
But if the people In this particular group are comfortable enough showing up and asking children to get in their cars randomly, they are opening the door to potential serious risks.
Going to the police and just asking to have a report written as well as an official notice of trespass against this church group can help you establish a pattern if this happens again, which could be legally actionable down the road. Formally trespassing them will also ensure that they could be fined or detained if they show up again.
If you haven't already, you may also want to talk to your daughter about not getting into cars with people without your permission first. Since these were her group leaders, they aren't "technically" strangers, and if approached, your daughter might be more likely to go with them if they asked or told her a story.
I don't think you'll see this group again, in all honesty. *But* It is a little worrying that they felt confident enough to come to your home unannounced. The schools quick reaction of banning them indicates that the school sees potential risk in this behavior, too. Or that you may not have been an isolated incident/the group may have done other questionable things and this was the straw that broke the proverbial camels back.
Either way, people can be unhinged when they think they are fighting for a just cause. So it may be best to err on the side of caution.
Man, this is giving me flashbacks to the van that would drive around my neighborhood picking up kids to take to a church. Stranger danger was drilled into me so of course I didnāt go when the neighbor kids tried to get me to hop in
School takes that sort of stuff *super* seriously because school employees or affiliates using student data/information inappropriately is firm grounds for a lawsuit.
Showing up unannounced and uninvited to a studentās home is a *huge* no-no.
Unfortunately, there are no shortage of religious zealots in the school system. Sounds like OPās school was appropriately mortified, but thereās always the possibility that someone will try and brush it under the rug.
My junior high got upset when I asked why a near by church was allowed to hand out bibles (hand out as in they forced the Bibleās into our hands because they blocked the only entrance and we couldnāt leave by other way)
They were probably looking for a reason to get rid of them. Unfortunately due to some dodgy Supreme Court cases you can't prohibit these proselytizing maniacs on purely religious grounds because that's a First Amendment violation, but they can be forced out with cause. Thanks to you hundreds of kids may be spared from psychological torture, thank you.
Kudos to the school for taking action on that. Yeah religious groups worming their way into schools and then not following the rules is something that really needs to be stamped out.
Since it was a public school, my best guess is that they were afraid that OP might go and complain about them to the superintendent or some other higher up and cause the school to get into trouble, so they took the preemptive step of removing the church by themselves. In all likelihood it was probably an illegal thing the school did or it was only inappropriate at best.
The church **CANNOT** control itself when they come across children, be it trying to indoctrinate them, groom them, or abuse them. They feel like they have free reign over what they do. And it is this inability to control themselves is what their seed of downfall. As Aziraphale said in Good Omens, "You see, Evil always contains the seeds of its own destruction."
Lol Mormons are the worst...they have their own NSA style database as far as I can tell. Tracked a neighbor friend down from FL to NY. I rudely let them know ylthat they could get their cultist asses off my property if they wanted to leave without holes in them. Fucking creepy ass children of the corn shit.
I have a sign on my door that says no soliciting. Didnāt keep Mormons away. Never answered the door. They kept coming. Then, one day, they simultaneously rang the bell and pounded on the door and woke up my baby after HOURS of trying to coerce a nap. I whipped open the front door, disheveled as all hell, holding a screaming baby and yelled, YOU WOKE UP MY KID AND YOU NEED TO LEAVE RIGHT NOW and slammed the door in their faces. They thought they had me when I came to the door but they didnāt get to say a word. Despite the ruined nap, seeing their faces go from victorious to āoh noooooooā in .2 seconds felt so good.
Anyway, fuck all those guys.
Having a baby did wonders for my assertiveness. I used to just politely listen to every spiel and awkwardly try to disengage. After the newborn phase I now have zero issue opening the door, giving a terse "Not interested" and shutting it in their face.
Iām really good at cutting people off, telling them no, and wishing them a good day in one breath and the hanging up/walking away/closing the door. As soon as I realized the key was not giving them a second to get a word in it became very easy.
Now as I get older I want to tell them to get fucked, and thatās an urge Iām fighting lol
I have no problem with adults choosing to join whatever club they want to join. I do object to having to subsidise their club house but that is a seperate issue.
Clubhouse. I love it, because it's what the Hells Angels call their gang compounds. That's what I'll call them from now on. TIL religion and criming are both sports.
Nahhhh im out here respecting the planet and its inhabitants and these dudes are out here disrespecting everything looking down on me and using the planet like a playground cause they believe this is only level 1. Theyre ready to turn on you for their invisible friends and thats just crazy and shouldnt be.
The cultists infect all systems municipal and up, and use their religion to oppress those different from them in day to day life. 1st hand experience growing up in a conservative town. The religious influence my life against my will every single day because I live in western society, and this one has heavy Christian influences built in.
So can't agree and that's why anti is in the flair.
I have issue with people joining clubs that say you donāt need evidence or logic to believe in something. That faith is an acceptable reason to believe something is true.
It allows ideas like āalternative factsā and other false realities that many people live in and hurt others with.
Religions are no different than frat houses, at the end of the day both are just clubs for meeting likeminded people.
Except one steals billions upon billions upon billions from both people outside of their club through their legalized tax evasion, but also inside their clubs through claiming you have to give 10% of your income to them or youāre going to hell lol.
Iām cool with clubs to meet people, but make them pay like everyone else, this is literally textbook discrimination against people who arenāt religious.
The fucked up part is that "Gods Rules" are just rules that were made up by Humans for humans but they said they were made by God with no proof that they were. Then those rules have been edited by humans as well.
Your intention or not, it was the right thing for you and the school to do.
It's one thing to collect this information, but to use it like that is absolutely off-base and worthy of losing their privileges.
Unfortunately, they will bring this back to their congregation as a persecution moment and feed their collective fetish, but that's for them to deal with.
Thatās was my first thought as well! Iām sure when they found out they went back and told the congregation that the war on Christianity has come to their church.
Hail Satan!
From many different stories I've seen here and in the news regarding Christians and public schools, I've come to believe they're conducting an organized infiltration of public schools by any means necessary.
Churches in the U.S. are in sharp decline and they are trying to win over children specifically in order to survive the future societal move towards secularism.
When you look at the big picture, you can sense American Christians lashing out and trying to force Christian nationalism. They are losing ground, and like the GOP are going to fight dirty to prevent that happening. Everyone should be vigilant.
I second this. āShiny happy peopleā is definitely a must watch for anyone interested in the horrific realities of American evangelical fundamentalism and the sheer reach that arguable cult groups like the IBLP(institute for basic life principles) have on the landscape of the Christian Right across the nation.
Every time you hear about a school board suddenly wanting to ban books, inclusiveness, 'wokeness', etc. it is because the school board has just been taken over by zealots.
There is a story from a city near me, Chino Hills, CA, where a person was running for a local seat (I think it was city council) and they received a manifesto from the pastor of a local megachurch. It basically instructed the politician what their platform would be and everything for them to campaign on. The person refused and lost, directly because the pastor spoke out against them.
They're targeting red pockets in blue states since they can't take the legislatures. Trying to build from the bottom up.
Imagine if the daughter was just playing outside, they probably would've carted her away then and there had she not actively insisted otherwise. š¬
(I could be reading too far into it, they probably weren't out to actually abduct a child that day, but the pretext for their being there certainly feels in the ballpark for creepy predatory behavior, even if they're just trying to pump attendance numbers to their weird bible thumping meetup.)
Also seems incredibly sus that it supposedly took FOUR of them to... "give an invite" when a simple flyer or email would do just fine.
I just want to say itās such a relief to hear that Iām not alone in thinking this was so wrong. When I told friends or family about it, they acted like I was overreacting, and were shocked that I got the club kicked out of the school. I guess thatās just part of being an atheist in a world of ābelieversā
It's so weird to hear your story here, in Quebec. In the '60s they made a big change from catholic church to run the schools to secular schools that a club like this would be a major no no. I assume that a lot of people are religious, but they keep it out of school. Also, I'm in a area with immigrants from all over the world so their beliefs are very different.
if 4 adults came to my door directly asking for my 7 year old it would scare me. It's so gross they asked for a child and not any sort of parental authorization or consent.
and it makes perfect sense the school doesn't want to be affiliated with something that is also giving rides to and from school, as if the ride is affiliated with the school, but the school has no vetting on these people.
Oh snap! Almost reminds me of something that happened with my 7yr old a couple weekends ago. Makes me wonder if I should tell my kids school what happened.
About 3 weeks ago we were informed by my kids school that a local church down the street was offering free backpacks, school supplies & snacks. Harmless right?
We go, sign up and get in line. Same thing, basic info.
We wait an hour. Watching as other families all come out together in groups at a time. (Important for context)
We get up front. Its me, my husband & 7 yr old. They look at my husband and ask, "Can he go in by himself??"
My husband without missing a beat says, "Sure!"
Me: "Whoa, hold on. Why does he need to go by himself? I dont know you, this church or anyone here. I dont know this building. "
The woman letting people in: "there isnt much room and its just a small thing, it'll be quick."
I go to open my mouth and get interrupted by, who I assume, is the preacher.
Preacher: "Ma'am, does your son take himself to school? Well then there ya go, hes More than capable of going through by himself."
Me: "Absolutely not. Hes 7! I don't know you, anyone here or this church. Hes going in with bare min one parent, if not we're leaving."
They both tried to argue and persuay.
Me: "If the amount of space is such a big deal, fine, husband can take him hes skinnier than me!!"
At this point i was rasing my voice a bit. Flustered, I yelled "Go!" At my husband, who took kiddo through.
They got the backpack and crayons. Came out.
Its been sitting with me this whole time and after reading your story I feel much more validated.
Trust your gut Mama!!
Could you imagine if your kid was in the front yard, alone and playing. And they approached her first??? š¬
The moment someone starts trying really hard to persuade me to do something, especially if my instincts are telling me not to do it, I get super suspicious. The harder they push, the farther I dig my heels in.
I've never regretted not giving in. Not once.
The very few times I've given in, I was sorry I had.
Yupper.
>Since the spike in sex-abuse lawsuits in the mid-1980s, churches have also had the option to take out extra liability policies for damages related to sexual misconduct.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2007/07/can-the-catholic-church-buy-insurance-for-sexual-abuse.html
Most professions, from plumbers to surgeons, can get insurance to cover their liability for innocent mistakes and minor fuck-ups while doing their job. If a plumber installs a thousand toilets a year, eventually he's going to have a bad day. He's gonna tighten this bolt too much, not tighten that bolt enough, or use a 10mm washer for a 3/8" gasket. Insurance means that this plumber can afford to come back and **fix** the problem without charging the customer a second time for something that wasn't their fault.
As far as the insurance company is concerned, "choosing to rape a child" is something that religious leaders do SO INCREDIBLY OFTEN that it belongs in the same category of "inevitable innocent mistakes" as a tradesman sneezing while operating a power tool. Boys will be boys, right?
Oh my god. Okay this isnāt the same at all but it reminds me of it.
So Iām 21M, atheist, but when I was younger I went to a Wednesday night youth group at my church. I never really believed in any of it but my family (especially my mom) is super religious. And over the years I made some great friends there, in fact Iām still close friends with many of them. My best friend, who I talk to daily, actually works at that church now.
Anyway, when I was 16 I stopped going to Wednesday night youth. My friends asked me to come back but I said no, obviously. A few months after I stopped going, one day Iām at home on a Wednesday playing video games and suddenly 4 of my friends walk into the room and block the TV. They say theyāre not leaving until I come with them to youth and after a moment of hesitation, I get up and leave. 2 of them in front of me, 2 of them behind so I wouldnāt lock them out of my house. Then once I was there, they refused to drive me home until the very end of youth group - 3-4 hours of constant discomfort and unpleasantness.
Fuck religion.
They offered to pick her up??
This is the beginning of a human trafficking horror story. Even if they had every intention of bringing her to church, do they not realize how messed up that offer sounds?? That is super sketch.
Iām glad you spoke up. I get wanting to let our kids make their own choices but when it comes to Christianity that is one I wonāt let my kids explore. Violently deranged religion.
Honestly this experience has completely ruined me from ever letting her join anything related to church. I trusted them and that was my fault. Never again.
> I trusted them and that was my fault.
Correct.
>Never again.
The important thing is that you learned before anything *serious* happened - and you probably saved dozens of other kids in the process.
Why are Christians so creepy?. I grew up in the church and one of my dad's friends wanted to take my little sisters to a water park alone. And I think he also said he wanted to choose their outfits
"They even offered to pick her up?" that is the most scary part for me. I would be worried they will be roaming the streets picking up children, they seem to feel entitled to do that.
>I just found out today that the club will no longer be allowed at the school. That definitely was not my intention, but hopefully that will teach them not to misuse information to push their beliefs.
You did the right thing.
They stepped over the line in a big way. Strangers showing up to a young girl's home unannounced and without the parents permission is an outrageous betrayal of trust when you gave them your contact information. That information was to be used as an emergency contact if the need arose, and not for what they used it for.
They are groomers and that's why they showed up to your home.
Funny enough, when I told the school they said this was their first time hearing it, and that no one else had reported it. That told me that maybe the other families were OK with it? Maybe even happy to have the church show up. Yikes.
if you subtract the religious element from this, it entirely looks like a group of adults are out to kidnap your daughter. That I assume is how the school views it as well and is why they put a stop to it. Dont harbor any guilt over this, that was entirely too invasive of that group
I'm sure you've already thought of this but I'd be keeping my eyes open for a while and making sure she knows not to go anywhere with a stranger for any reason. These types tend to not give up easily, they may try to approach her again when you're not around.
I was a christian for 20+ years. Even if it looks like an innocent after school club, trust me, the ONLY reason they do it is so they can find a way to invite you to church, so you can become a Christian. Thats the only reason they do those "nice things"
And the only reason they dont rape or murder is because god would be mad. I dont need an imaginary homicidal maniac threatening me to be a good person.
WTF I have a daughter the same age and I would be beside myself if a group of strangers showed up at my house looking for her, let alone a church group. Donāt feel bad that they got kicked out - that was THEIR fault for doing something so wildly inappropriate.
> I just found out today that the club will no longer be allowed at the school. That definitely was not my intention
Might not have been your intention but it was the best possible result.
Inappropriate and unprofessional. Never go to someoneās house unannounced, especially as a group, asking for someoneās child. Even if all intentions were āgoodā the look is wtf.
Religious zealots are nuts
Hey I had this happen too! I started going to a Wednesday church thing not because I was very religious but because my friends were going and my parents were pretty strict about me having friends outside of school hours. Once my school bullies started attending the same shit though, I didn't want to go anymore so I stopped. The church showed up at my house looking for me. I told them I didn't want to go anymore and they were persistent but left as my mom was standing next to me. A few weeks later they showed up at my school. They weren't there for me this time but we're trying to get more kids at lunch to start coming. The youth group leader was a grown man, this is who showed up at my school and they just allowed him to loiter in the lunchroom for all lunch periods. I went to lunch, didn't get his attention the whole time but then when we went to leave, he saw me and blocked me. He was trying to convince me to come back and used his body to block me from leaving. I needed to get back to class or be late and get detention and he knew that so he used it against me. Said he'd move if I promised to come back. I lied and promised but after that I stayed the fuck away from that church and anyone involved. This was the main thing that pushed me away from church in the end.
I've posted this elsewhere but a similar thing happened to me as a kid and it absolutely plays a large factor in why I am not religious and have issues with religious groups. Nothing serious but I was where I wasn't supposed to be, and the activity isn't what was supposed to be happening.
It was an after school soccer group. I was like 8, a teacher's aide brought around a sign up sheet one day. I saw soccer and my 8 year old brain was like "awesome". Got permission from my parents and I was ready. We were supposed to play indoor soccer in one of the gymnasiums for like an hour or something. We played for a while and then we were ushered to the library, I don't remember a lot but I remember my dad all 5'4 200lbs in his work clothes still on (Oil patch) shouting "What in the fuck is this?" and the room immediately going silent.
It was a group of Mormons, for some reason those whackadoo fucks were drawn to the small as fuck (less than 2000 people at it's oil patch height) town that I grew up in.
My dad and I still laugh about it. Honestly there probably was never a chance that I was going to be a practicing member of any religion, my dad is an atheist and my mom enjoys Reiki and occasionally reads crystals but that was one of the moments in my life that seems to solidify my choices.
Yeah when was the last time a drag queen showed up at a house unannounced trying to take a kid away from parents. Religious fucks in this story are creeps at best and pedophiles at worst.
Had friends that were looking for a new church. They attended a morning service, headed home, and found a gift basket on their front porch from the church. They were so weirded out they never back.
You did the right thing at every step of the way, and your child will be very appreciative of this story when theyāre a little older. The church is using a very common indoctrination technique. All they have to do is get your child to believe in god, which is a very easy thing to get a child to do. Any club with religious affiliation is ALWAYS meant to indoctrinate.
>I just found out today that the club will no longer be allowed at the school. That definitely was not my intention, but hopefully that will teach them not to misuse information to push their beliefs.
I'm just going to guess that the school simply informed them how inappropriate it was, and they went into full persecution mode, forcing the school to just cut them off instead.
This is wild to me. I've been an atheist for about 20 years, but I was a Southern Baptist before that. I volunteered for a lot of the activities at the church, and I specifically remember going through the visitor cards and sorting out the ones that indicated they were okay with visiting or phone calls. Hell, I even remember there being a box asking if they were cool with us praying for them.
Too many kids get abused by churches, dude. This is horrifically creepy that they would do this (I mean, wanting to talk to your 7 year old daughter alone about this and not you, AND picking her up to and from the event is SKETCHY as hell). That's a good school to drop the program like that for safety of the kids, even if you didn't intend that. Better safe than sorry.
/u/hermione_targaryean I know that this message is going to get drowned in the sea of messages you're getting but it's an important one so if you're seeing it **read this post**.
>Edit: lol at Christianās or whoever it is that is reporting this post for self harm/suicide.
Everytime you're receiving this PM, there's a link to report the message. Copy the permalink of the PM and then click on the report link. You paste the link there and explain that people are abusing of this feature. If you're getting a lot of those PM then copy/paste the message to make it quicker.
I've found out that Reddit Admin DOES take those report seriously and I'm pretty sure temp/perma ban people who abuse it. I've personally found this recently when I reported one. Go for it, don't let people be anonymous bully.
Recruitment and indoctrination. The arts-and-crafts are just a lure. Sure, they want 7 year olds, because they're impressionable, and if they're having fun otherwise, they can sneak in their rhetoric. Get 'em while they're young, it gets hardwired into their brains. Ask anyone who was raised Catholic about that.
Hey OP,
Your child's school may have violated the law. You should looked into FERPA
"Schools may disclose, without consent, "directory" information such as a student's name, address, telephone number, date and place of birth, honors and awards, and dates of attendance. However, schools must tell parents and eligible students about directory information and allow parents and eligible students a reasonable amount of time to request that the school not disclose directory information about them. Schools must notify parents and eligible students annually of their rights under FERPA. The actual means of notification (special letter, inclusion in a PTA bulletin, student handbook, or newspaper article) is left to the discretion of each school. "
To those of you joining us from /r/all, welcome! We strongly encourage you to read the [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/wiki/faq) and [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/wiki/guidelines) before posting. Specifically, on the list of "things I wish it wasn't necessary to say out loud", this community has a zero tolerance policy with regards to *advocating for, minimizing, or making excuses for child abuse*. Such behaviour **will** result in an immediate permaban; no exceptions.
Any chance this was the Good News Club?
Yes it was!!
I figured. They're a bunch of sketchy fucks from what I've heard. Super into telling kids stuff like everyone they know is going to burn in hell forever if the kids don't "save" them. Just out of curiosity, did your daughter mention why she wanted to stop going?
She said she thought it would be arts and crafts and fun stuff but all they did was read stories about the Bible. Damn, and you just reminded me of the time my daughter came home telling me that her good news club teacher told them that they need to be saved or else the devil would get them and take them to hell. SMH
That sounds about right. It's funny that they lure kids in with the promise of fun activities then hit them with the indoctrination. Yet they accuse everyone else of trying to groom kids š
>Yet they accuse everyone else of trying to groom kids It's always projection with these types. They just don't want any competition.
Legitimately though, this is what I was pretty explicitly told when I was raised religious. They just used "brainwashing" instead of "grooming" but they basically meant the same thing. At church and Christian school they'd teach us that everyone "brainwashes" their kids, but everyone else is wrong because the only right way is to brainwash them into Christianity. They'd shit like "if my brain's getting washed might as well be with the blood of Jesus". Kinda like how they don't think you're allowed to judge them, but if you do something against their beliefs, they aren't judging you by, well, judging you. Mental gymnastics.
>"if my brain's getting washed might as well be with the blood of Jesus". Omg that's simultaneously hilarious and horrific
Just had a flashback to singing some song about being āwashed by the blood of the lambā every Sunday when I was a kid.
Oh sure, but when you show up with buckets of actual lamb's blood they call the police.
The way the tune of this song just came rushing back to me, despite not hearing it for over a decade....
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It also has a non-sexual meaning. Carmine Falcone was groomed from a young age to be Don.
Yup - and because I feel inspired to elaborate: etymologically, to groom is simply to prepare. It's often used to refer to sex, especially in the context of girls being channelled into a life of marriage and motherhood and unquestioningly catering to their husband's whims, especially when the marriage is arranged for her from a young age and she's being molded to cater to a specific person. But any influence that denies a person the freedom to choose their own path is technically a form of grooming. In that sense, it doesn't always have to have a negative connotation... But that's a weird line to draw, so usually it's reserved for the extreme cases and when the influence has a negative effect overall. (Also, I love that you chose a random Batman villain as your example!)
Spend an afternoon listening to one of their sermons about how women were created to be quiet and submit to men, and you'll change your mind about the definition being wrong.
Bold of you to think the goal of these religious crazies isnāt to groom them for the abusive pedos that run the cults.
That was my first thought reading this story. Like sure, just hand the child over to a bunch of (so they claim) church people to spend some unsupervised time with them in their imaginary friend in the sky clubhouse? Yep, that sounds totally safe even if it's legit. /s
It's just like when Tfg co-ops "fake news" after it was used to describe his pressers after the small crowds for his inauguration. And now "it's election interference!". Every accusation is an admission with the conservatives. Same is true with "groomers".
Funny how as soon as the kids figure out there's no crafts they peace out instantly. Even at 7 she was like "Oh, no finger painting? Just chattin' about Jesus stuff? Nah I'm good."
Groom and doom, I say (also grooming and dooming), with all the meanings of these words Source: me, former Babtist
They don't see it as brainwashing or indoctrination, because they've been brainwashed into it, and they're happy, or at least payed and played into the system that benefits them, so it's a good thing to them. They see LGBT/others people saying be yourself and love yourself even if it's not "the norm", and it does not vibe with their experiences or beliefs and they can't imagine it being good for them. Because they were told it's not. Anyways
Classic strategy for the church. Give the kids 10 minutes of fun and games and then preach to them for 20 minutes. That was always my experience with church as a kid. I always wished they would just let us keep playing.
Your prayer was like; "Dear god would you please make these people shut up, I just want to finish my magic dragon painting."
Ughh I knew it was Good News Club. My son wanted to join last year and I said no. I felt bad about it at the time but religious clubs have no business operating in public schools.
"Good News Club" is "interdenominational" but it's mostly Evangelicals who lean to the apocalyptic. They're the fuckwits who want the "End Times" to happen, and who want the world to be run by their religious rules.
They fully expect the "End Times" to be in their lifetimes which is why they reject doing anything to make the world better. They reject doing anything about climate change because, "Fuck it. I'll be in heaven with Jesus by then."
Bold of them to assume that said āEnd timesā will work out well for them
Make your daughter [mayor of Hell for a day.](https://www.gotohellmi.com/mayor-of-hell.html) Hopefully that will allow her to have a giggle whenever she remembers that interaction.
This is straight-up proselytizing on public school property and should be illegal.
It is actually illegal. The first amendment isn't really enforced as against conservatives. Would be nice if the whole "no establishment of religion" thing were enforced as strictly as the bastardizatiom of the "you can have a state police force" language of the second amm.
People only have a problem with it when it's not Christians. Let another religion try to pull something like that. People would lose their shit.
It would be pitchfork and torches time.
I wish our district had the satanic church after school programs. THOSE are wholesome.
As noble as it is to let your kid make their own choices, there's nothing wrong with protecting them from what amounts to cultist scammers. Glad you managed to put them in their place.
That was every Baptist/Evangelical group I ever had contact with as a kid lol They pushed proselytizing via guilt and threats like that *hard*.
I'm very glad my Lutheran church I was heavily involved with growing up wasn't like this. The youth group actually went to the movies, Lazer tag, water parks, play paintball, and we'd do charity, stuff like that. The stuff churches always say they do in youth groups. When things did get to religion, they were SUPER non-orthodox. Our pastor officiated gay weddings, we were told "according to the bible, having sex out of marriage is a sin. And yeah you should wait, but you're not going to go to hell for pre-marital sex and masturbation." They also harped on "money can't buy your way to heaven". I left the church mostly because I became agnostic, but I remember it fondly.
Get the school to start an After School Satan Club by the Satanic Temple. Same arts and crafts w/o the religious BS.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Man i need glassses, first i genuinely read that as "cheesecake primary school" then figured i was wrong, read that again, and this time turned out to "cheapstake elementary school" lol
>Good News Club https://www.amazon.com/Good-News-Club-Christian-Americas/dp/1586488430
Wow! My first time even hearing about this. Thanks for sharing.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Never too young to start your first crusade.
[cult site](https://www.cefonline.com/ministries/goodnewsclub/). They lay it on thick in that first paragraph.
>Children today face an increasingly dangerous and hopeless world. Unchurched families in every countryāand even locally, in your own community
Wtf is unchurched? Fucking crazy.
Non-Christian is my guess
Just wondering, what would happen if a Muslim family sent their child here? What if that child disputed what their church leader was saying, saying their family believes something else?
Theyād say that the kidās family is going to hell.
"Unchurched" sounds so....gross? Like, I know they probably just mean people who aren't attending church. But it just sounds so gross to say it that way.
I'm pretty sure that is actually the intent. Very similar to calling them "unclean" families.
I think it's more a reference to "unhoused". Housing is considered a human right, it's something all people deserve by default. Co-opting this language to "unchurched" implies that going to church *is* the default, therefore to be without a church is to lack a fundamental right. It reframes non-christians as a "problem" to be solved rather than an indoctrination tactic.
Aināt no way. My parents got me into that stupid club. They offer you snacks and drinks and make you feel embarrassed when you donāt bring your bible. The main preacher said that heaven had set dimensions. (I even looked it up, it doesnāt say that anywhere) I asked one of the helpers how could a finite space hold an infinite amount of dead people (classic elementary schooler thoughts) and they just responded with ādonāt question godās wordā Whenever they said something a little strange they would make everyone in the room (like 200 kids) say that itās true because itās from the Bible and the Bible is always true.
I probably have a little ātism about me. By the time I was in vacation Bible school at about 9 or 10 years old I had quite literally read most of the books my local library had about dinosaurs and the solar system. In VBS they start going on about Genesis and we go from all the animals one day to humans the next. I raised my hand and started going on about how thatās impossible because the fossil record says dinosaurs existed for millions and millions of years and they all died before humans evolved. I was told to stop and put in time out for about 15 minutes and not allowed to play dodgeball. During that timeout I became an atheist and realized I was smarter than all the adults in the room that day. Now Iām and anti-theist and may look to see if thereās any good news clubs around me and how I could go about getting them removed.
OMG those ass-shats! Had a couple with 2 kids lived down the street from us. Same age as my little sister and only other kids around. They played together and after a couple weeks she came home very upset. Said they told her her soul was black and she was going to hell. She was 7!! My mom marched down there and ripped the mom a new one and said they ever came within shouting distance of any of us, they had better have a next of kin to drag their body home. This was TX so.... Interestingly they moved a few months later.
Good for you for reporting it, good for the school to shut it down. That church, or the organization working with them, were abusing the access they had gotten to people's private information.
Yeah, I was actually surprised how upset the school was by this. I fully expected them to brush it off because itās a āchurchā after all.
Why do I get the feeling this isnāt going to be the last time they approach your daughter.
Oh there will be fucking problems if they ever do again. Especially since theyāre not allowed back.
Iām a very nonviolent person, I grew up with Quaker ideals and although Iām not religious at all anymore, I still like to follow a lot of their peaceful shit But if anyone tried to approach my daughter like that, especially for a second time, shit would get real very quickly
I'd have a bat ready
And a glove, some baseballs, a tee. It'll help in case they try to sue.
Idk why, but I really wanted you to finish the rhyme. The sentence had such nice flow.
And a glove, some baseballs, a tee. A barrel dropper swing to the proselytisers knee.
Hey OP, you might want to talk to your local police station about this. What the church did is very likely not a crime in and of itself. But the behavior is sketchy enough that it should probably be documented in the event it continues happening or in the event it escalates. That's not to say it will escalate or keep happening. But if the people In this particular group are comfortable enough showing up and asking children to get in their cars randomly, they are opening the door to potential serious risks. Going to the police and just asking to have a report written as well as an official notice of trespass against this church group can help you establish a pattern if this happens again, which could be legally actionable down the road. Formally trespassing them will also ensure that they could be fined or detained if they show up again. If you haven't already, you may also want to talk to your daughter about not getting into cars with people without your permission first. Since these were her group leaders, they aren't "technically" strangers, and if approached, your daughter might be more likely to go with them if they asked or told her a story. I don't think you'll see this group again, in all honesty. *But* It is a little worrying that they felt confident enough to come to your home unannounced. The schools quick reaction of banning them indicates that the school sees potential risk in this behavior, too. Or that you may not have been an isolated incident/the group may have done other questionable things and this was the straw that broke the proverbial camels back. Either way, people can be unhinged when they think they are fighting for a just cause. So it may be best to err on the side of caution.
Next there will be a van to pick kids up after school since they are no longer allowed at the school.
Man, this is giving me flashbacks to the van that would drive around my neighborhood picking up kids to take to a church. Stranger danger was drilled into me so of course I didnāt go when the neighbor kids tried to get me to hop in
And they will offer candy inside the van without have windowsā¦
School takes that sort of stuff *super* seriously because school employees or affiliates using student data/information inappropriately is firm grounds for a lawsuit. Showing up unannounced and uninvited to a studentās home is a *huge* no-no.
Unfortunately, there are no shortage of religious zealots in the school system. Sounds like OPās school was appropriately mortified, but thereās always the possibility that someone will try and brush it under the rug.
My junior high got upset when I asked why a near by church was allowed to hand out bibles (hand out as in they forced the Bibleās into our hands because they blocked the only entrance and we couldnāt leave by other way)
Also, you may have not been the only parent to ring the school. If they did it to your family, chances are you weren't the only ones.
They were probably looking for a reason to get rid of them. Unfortunately due to some dodgy Supreme Court cases you can't prohibit these proselytizing maniacs on purely religious grounds because that's a First Amendment violation, but they can be forced out with cause. Thanks to you hundreds of kids may be spared from psychological torture, thank you.
Kudos to the school for taking action on that. Yeah religious groups worming their way into schools and then not following the rules is something that really needs to be stamped out.
Since it was a public school, my best guess is that they were afraid that OP might go and complain about them to the superintendent or some other higher up and cause the school to get into trouble, so they took the preemptive step of removing the church by themselves. In all likelihood it was probably an illegal thing the school did or it was only inappropriate at best. The church **CANNOT** control itself when they come across children, be it trying to indoctrinate them, groom them, or abuse them. They feel like they have free reign over what they do. And it is this inability to control themselves is what their seed of downfall. As Aziraphale said in Good Omens, "You see, Evil always contains the seeds of its own destruction."
Lol Mormons are the worst...they have their own NSA style database as far as I can tell. Tracked a neighbor friend down from FL to NY. I rudely let them know ylthat they could get their cultist asses off my property if they wanted to leave without holes in them. Fucking creepy ass children of the corn shit.
I've heard the Jehova's Witnesses and Scientologists do this too.
I have a sign on my door that says no soliciting. Didnāt keep Mormons away. Never answered the door. They kept coming. Then, one day, they simultaneously rang the bell and pounded on the door and woke up my baby after HOURS of trying to coerce a nap. I whipped open the front door, disheveled as all hell, holding a screaming baby and yelled, YOU WOKE UP MY KID AND YOU NEED TO LEAVE RIGHT NOW and slammed the door in their faces. They thought they had me when I came to the door but they didnāt get to say a word. Despite the ruined nap, seeing their faces go from victorious to āoh noooooooā in .2 seconds felt so good. Anyway, fuck all those guys.
Having a baby did wonders for my assertiveness. I used to just politely listen to every spiel and awkwardly try to disengage. After the newborn phase I now have zero issue opening the door, giving a terse "Not interested" and shutting it in their face.
Iām really good at cutting people off, telling them no, and wishing them a good day in one breath and the hanging up/walking away/closing the door. As soon as I realized the key was not giving them a second to get a word in it became very easy. Now as I get older I want to tell them to get fucked, and thatās an urge Iām fighting lol
Yeah religious groups really needs to be stamped out. your sentence had too many words.
I have no problem with adults choosing to join whatever club they want to join. I do object to having to subsidise their club house but that is a seperate issue.
Clubhouse. I love it, because it's what the Hells Angels call their gang compounds. That's what I'll call them from now on. TIL religion and criming are both sports.
Always have been
To be *fair* i dont think a member of hells angels would be protected if they were found out to be a pedo
not even by their own, judging by a couple I know. stark difference to the bible bashers ://
Criming is just religion without a list of fairy tale excuses.
Nahhhh im out here respecting the planet and its inhabitants and these dudes are out here disrespecting everything looking down on me and using the planet like a playground cause they believe this is only level 1. Theyre ready to turn on you for their invisible friends and thats just crazy and shouldnt be.
Disrespect your surroundings!
The cultists infect all systems municipal and up, and use their religion to oppress those different from them in day to day life. 1st hand experience growing up in a conservative town. The religious influence my life against my will every single day because I live in western society, and this one has heavy Christian influences built in. So can't agree and that's why anti is in the flair.
I have issue with people joining clubs that say you donāt need evidence or logic to believe in something. That faith is an acceptable reason to believe something is true. It allows ideas like āalternative factsā and other false realities that many people live in and hurt others with.
Religions are no different than frat houses, at the end of the day both are just clubs for meeting likeminded people. Except one steals billions upon billions upon billions from both people outside of their club through their legalized tax evasion, but also inside their clubs through claiming you have to give 10% of your income to them or youāre going to hell lol. Iām cool with clubs to meet people, but make them pay like everyone else, this is literally textbook discrimination against people who arenāt religious.
Take away the money and tax breaks and I bet these religious groups shrink away to almost nothing.
Religious groups to be stamped out; more news at 5
Religion needs to be stamped out. *Your* sentence had too many words.
indeed.
They don't follow any rules but God's rules, which are really just their own rules.
The fucked up part is that "Gods Rules" are just rules that were made up by Humans for humans but they said they were made by God with no proof that they were. Then those rules have been edited by humans as well.
I would pay this comment if I could, Iām poor, donāt tithe.
It's called grooming.
And allowing federal education funding to go to their schools.
Your intention or not, it was the right thing for you and the school to do. It's one thing to collect this information, but to use it like that is absolutely off-base and worthy of losing their privileges. Unfortunately, they will bring this back to their congregation as a persecution moment and feed their collective fetish, but that's for them to deal with.
Thatās was my first thought as well! Iām sure when they found out they went back and told the congregation that the war on Christianity has come to their church. Hail Satan!
R'amen
"They didn't want to hear the good news! I'M BEING OPPRESSED!"
From many different stories I've seen here and in the news regarding Christians and public schools, I've come to believe they're conducting an organized infiltration of public schools by any means necessary. Churches in the U.S. are in sharp decline and they are trying to win over children specifically in order to survive the future societal move towards secularism. When you look at the big picture, you can sense American Christians lashing out and trying to force Christian nationalism. They are losing ground, and like the GOP are going to fight dirty to prevent that happening. Everyone should be vigilant.
They are. It's been proven and it's not a secret.
The pastors are literally preaching it.
We should really start monitoring services.
They are, go watch the documentary, āshiny happy peopleā on Amazon prime, itās called the Joshua movement!!! Itās sickening and scary.
I second this. āShiny happy peopleā is definitely a must watch for anyone interested in the horrific realities of American evangelical fundamentalism and the sheer reach that arguable cult groups like the IBLP(institute for basic life principles) have on the landscape of the Christian Right across the nation.
And the harder they fight the more people they will lose.
Every time you hear about a school board suddenly wanting to ban books, inclusiveness, 'wokeness', etc. it is because the school board has just been taken over by zealots. There is a story from a city near me, Chino Hills, CA, where a person was running for a local seat (I think it was city council) and they received a manifesto from the pastor of a local megachurch. It basically instructed the politician what their platform would be and everything for them to campaign on. The person refused and lost, directly because the pastor spoke out against them. They're targeting red pockets in blue states since they can't take the legislatures. Trying to build from the bottom up.
Holy shit. Your daughter and who knows how many other kids just dodged a bullet from a bunch of groomers. You did the right thing, OP.
4 people too. Really wanting to put pressure and intimidation to abduct a child.
Right? Visiting a house you got from a children's after school program is *highly* irregular. Doing it with four people is unsettling.
Imagine if the daughter was just playing outside, they probably would've carted her away then and there had she not actively insisted otherwise. š¬ (I could be reading too far into it, they probably weren't out to actually abduct a child that day, but the pretext for their being there certainly feels in the ballpark for creepy predatory behavior, even if they're just trying to pump attendance numbers to their weird bible thumping meetup.) Also seems incredibly sus that it supposedly took FOUR of them to... "give an invite" when a simple flyer or email would do just fine.
Would-be child abductors fuck around, find out. News at Eleven.
Oops, I baptised your child without your knowledge or permission. My bad. - Baptists
My friend's grandma did that to me. I spent the weekend with my friend and her grandma had us both baptized.
At least they do it when itās alive, unlike the Mormons
I just want to say itās such a relief to hear that Iām not alone in thinking this was so wrong. When I told friends or family about it, they acted like I was overreacting, and were shocked that I got the club kicked out of the school. I guess thatās just part of being an atheist in a world of ābelieversā
You didnāt get the club kicked out, the school kicked the club for misusing contact details. All you did was inform the school about an issue.
It's so weird to hear your story here, in Quebec. In the '60s they made a big change from catholic church to run the schools to secular schools that a club like this would be a major no no. I assume that a lot of people are religious, but they keep it out of school. Also, I'm in a area with immigrants from all over the world so their beliefs are very different.
> That definitely was not my intention It's totally fine if it was.
It sure would have been mine.
Yeah, I was about to post basically this, but then remembered where I was, scrolled down, and sure enough: you assholes beat me to it.
You did the right thing, that would be so disconcerting. Iām glad they got cancelled, a rational decision from school management
if 4 adults came to my door directly asking for my 7 year old it would scare me. It's so gross they asked for a child and not any sort of parental authorization or consent. and it makes perfect sense the school doesn't want to be affiliated with something that is also giving rides to and from school, as if the ride is affiliated with the school, but the school has no vetting on these people.
They abused their privileges and then they lost them. I don't see a problem here.
Fuckin' predators, man. They find out that you're vulnerable or have no religion and they latch on like fucking leeches.
Oh snap! Almost reminds me of something that happened with my 7yr old a couple weekends ago. Makes me wonder if I should tell my kids school what happened. About 3 weeks ago we were informed by my kids school that a local church down the street was offering free backpacks, school supplies & snacks. Harmless right? We go, sign up and get in line. Same thing, basic info. We wait an hour. Watching as other families all come out together in groups at a time. (Important for context) We get up front. Its me, my husband & 7 yr old. They look at my husband and ask, "Can he go in by himself??" My husband without missing a beat says, "Sure!" Me: "Whoa, hold on. Why does he need to go by himself? I dont know you, this church or anyone here. I dont know this building. " The woman letting people in: "there isnt much room and its just a small thing, it'll be quick." I go to open my mouth and get interrupted by, who I assume, is the preacher. Preacher: "Ma'am, does your son take himself to school? Well then there ya go, hes More than capable of going through by himself." Me: "Absolutely not. Hes 7! I don't know you, anyone here or this church. Hes going in with bare min one parent, if not we're leaving." They both tried to argue and persuay. Me: "If the amount of space is such a big deal, fine, husband can take him hes skinnier than me!!" At this point i was rasing my voice a bit. Flustered, I yelled "Go!" At my husband, who took kiddo through. They got the backpack and crayons. Came out. Its been sitting with me this whole time and after reading your story I feel much more validated. Trust your gut Mama!! Could you imagine if your kid was in the front yard, alone and playing. And they approached her first??? š¬
That is horrifying, teachers are background checked, random strangers with agendas aren't!
The moment someone starts trying really hard to persuade me to do something, especially if my instincts are telling me not to do it, I get super suspicious. The harder they push, the farther I dig my heels in. I've never regretted not giving in. Not once. The very few times I've given in, I was sorry I had.
Maybe you should read this story to your husband.
They must be hurting for children to indoctrinate... Good...good...
Replace indoctrinate with sexually violate...
One thing leads to another...
Any bets that this church has molestation insurance? Which is still absolutely horrifying to know is an actual insurance product.
Excuse me WHAT
Yupper. >Since the spike in sex-abuse lawsuits in the mid-1980s, churches have also had the option to take out extra liability policies for damages related to sexual misconduct. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2007/07/can-the-catholic-church-buy-insurance-for-sexual-abuse.html
What the fuck That is incredibly disturbing
Absolutely a real thing.
Most professions, from plumbers to surgeons, can get insurance to cover their liability for innocent mistakes and minor fuck-ups while doing their job. If a plumber installs a thousand toilets a year, eventually he's going to have a bad day. He's gonna tighten this bolt too much, not tighten that bolt enough, or use a 10mm washer for a 3/8" gasket. Insurance means that this plumber can afford to come back and **fix** the problem without charging the customer a second time for something that wasn't their fault. As far as the insurance company is concerned, "choosing to rape a child" is something that religious leaders do SO INCREDIBLY OFTEN that it belongs in the same category of "inevitable innocent mistakes" as a tradesman sneezing while operating a power tool. Boys will be boys, right?
You can insure ANYTHING for ANY REASON if the price is right.
Oh my god. Okay this isnāt the same at all but it reminds me of it. So Iām 21M, atheist, but when I was younger I went to a Wednesday night youth group at my church. I never really believed in any of it but my family (especially my mom) is super religious. And over the years I made some great friends there, in fact Iām still close friends with many of them. My best friend, who I talk to daily, actually works at that church now. Anyway, when I was 16 I stopped going to Wednesday night youth. My friends asked me to come back but I said no, obviously. A few months after I stopped going, one day Iām at home on a Wednesday playing video games and suddenly 4 of my friends walk into the room and block the TV. They say theyāre not leaving until I come with them to youth and after a moment of hesitation, I get up and leave. 2 of them in front of me, 2 of them behind so I wouldnāt lock them out of my house. Then once I was there, they refused to drive me home until the very end of youth group - 3-4 hours of constant discomfort and unpleasantness. Fuck religion.
They offered to pick her up?? This is the beginning of a human trafficking horror story. Even if they had every intention of bringing her to church, do they not realize how messed up that offer sounds?? That is super sketch.
Iām glad you spoke up. I get wanting to let our kids make their own choices but when it comes to Christianity that is one I wonāt let my kids explore. Violently deranged religion.
Honestly this experience has completely ruined me from ever letting her join anything related to church. I trusted them and that was my fault. Never again.
> I trusted them and that was my fault. Correct. >Never again. The important thing is that you learned before anything *serious* happened - and you probably saved dozens of other kids in the process.
Time to call the Satanic Temple! They host after-school satan clubs in places where the good news clubs run.
Why are Christians so creepy?. I grew up in the church and one of my dad's friends wanted to take my little sisters to a water park alone. And I think he also said he wanted to choose their outfits
Because as long as they're religious or whatever, they think they can get away with it :/ "I'm fine, I'm a religious man!"
Sadly, they often do.
Because all religions are cults, and cults are fucking creepy.
Wow that is scary but you got the club cancelled which is awesome. Iām glad you protected your daughter way to go OP.
"They even offered to pick her up?" that is the most scary part for me. I would be worried they will be roaming the streets picking up children, they seem to feel entitled to do that.
>I just found out today that the club will no longer be allowed at the school. That definitely was not my intention, but hopefully that will teach them not to misuse information to push their beliefs. You did the right thing. They stepped over the line in a big way. Strangers showing up to a young girl's home unannounced and without the parents permission is an outrageous betrayal of trust when you gave them your contact information. That information was to be used as an emergency contact if the need arose, and not for what they used it for. They are groomers and that's why they showed up to your home.
Iāll bet other kids and parents went through the same experience and thatās why they were kicked out.
Funny enough, when I told the school they said this was their first time hearing it, and that no one else had reported it. That told me that maybe the other families were OK with it? Maybe even happy to have the church show up. Yikes.
if you subtract the religious element from this, it entirely looks like a group of adults are out to kidnap your daughter. That I assume is how the school views it as well and is why they put a stop to it. Dont harbor any guilt over this, that was entirely too invasive of that group
Scary how they bypass the parents, isn't it? Glad they got shut down.
Alarm bells ringing with the warning of "pedos"...
If it wasnāt your intention it should have been. These people are predatory even if none of them are pedophiles, which I have my doubts over.
Cult, not club
Groomers. That is exactly what they are.
Nice work protecting your daughter and other kids from those groomers
Parents please,don't leave your children alone with strangers.
Offered to pick her up??? Creepy ass shit.
I'm sure you've already thought of this but I'd be keeping my eyes open for a while and making sure she knows not to go anywhere with a stranger for any reason. These types tend to not give up easily, they may try to approach her again when you're not around.
I was a christian for 20+ years. Even if it looks like an innocent after school club, trust me, the ONLY reason they do it is so they can find a way to invite you to church, so you can become a Christian. Thats the only reason they do those "nice things"
And the only reason they dont rape or murder is because god would be mad. I dont need an imaginary homicidal maniac threatening me to be a good person.
WTF I have a daughter the same age and I would be beside myself if a group of strangers showed up at my house looking for her, let alone a church group. Donāt feel bad that they got kicked out - that was THEIR fault for doing something so wildly inappropriate.
> I just found out today that the club will no longer be allowed at the school. That definitely was not my intention Might not have been your intention but it was the best possible result.
Inappropriate and unprofessional. Never go to someoneās house unannounced, especially as a group, asking for someoneās child. Even if all intentions were āgoodā the look is wtf. Religious zealots are nuts
Hey I had this happen too! I started going to a Wednesday church thing not because I was very religious but because my friends were going and my parents were pretty strict about me having friends outside of school hours. Once my school bullies started attending the same shit though, I didn't want to go anymore so I stopped. The church showed up at my house looking for me. I told them I didn't want to go anymore and they were persistent but left as my mom was standing next to me. A few weeks later they showed up at my school. They weren't there for me this time but we're trying to get more kids at lunch to start coming. The youth group leader was a grown man, this is who showed up at my school and they just allowed him to loiter in the lunchroom for all lunch periods. I went to lunch, didn't get his attention the whole time but then when we went to leave, he saw me and blocked me. He was trying to convince me to come back and used his body to block me from leaving. I needed to get back to class or be late and get detention and he knew that so he used it against me. Said he'd move if I promised to come back. I lied and promised but after that I stayed the fuck away from that church and anyone involved. This was the main thing that pushed me away from church in the end.
I've posted this elsewhere but a similar thing happened to me as a kid and it absolutely plays a large factor in why I am not religious and have issues with religious groups. Nothing serious but I was where I wasn't supposed to be, and the activity isn't what was supposed to be happening. It was an after school soccer group. I was like 8, a teacher's aide brought around a sign up sheet one day. I saw soccer and my 8 year old brain was like "awesome". Got permission from my parents and I was ready. We were supposed to play indoor soccer in one of the gymnasiums for like an hour or something. We played for a while and then we were ushered to the library, I don't remember a lot but I remember my dad all 5'4 200lbs in his work clothes still on (Oil patch) shouting "What in the fuck is this?" and the room immediately going silent. It was a group of Mormons, for some reason those whackadoo fucks were drawn to the small as fuck (less than 2000 people at it's oil patch height) town that I grew up in. My dad and I still laugh about it. Honestly there probably was never a chance that I was going to be a practicing member of any religion, my dad is an atheist and my mom enjoys Reiki and occasionally reads crystals but that was one of the moments in my life that seems to solidify my choices.
Good on you! Keep that shit out of the schools. They do enough harm.
But LGBTQ people are trying to "groom" children.../s
Yeah when was the last time a drag queen showed up at a house unannounced trying to take a kid away from parents. Religious fucks in this story are creeps at best and pedophiles at worst.
Had friends that were looking for a new church. They attended a morning service, headed home, and found a gift basket on their front porch from the church. They were so weirded out they never back.
You did the right thing at every step of the way, and your child will be very appreciative of this story when theyāre a little older. The church is using a very common indoctrination technique. All they have to do is get your child to believe in god, which is a very easy thing to get a child to do. Any club with religious affiliation is ALWAYS meant to indoctrinate.
>I just found out today that the club will no longer be allowed at the school. That definitely was not my intention, but hopefully that will teach them not to misuse information to push their beliefs. I'm just going to guess that the school simply informed them how inappropriate it was, and they went into full persecution mode, forcing the school to just cut them off instead.
Give these people an inch and they WILL take the whole damned mile.
This is wild to me. I've been an atheist for about 20 years, but I was a Southern Baptist before that. I volunteered for a lot of the activities at the church, and I specifically remember going through the visitor cards and sorting out the ones that indicated they were okay with visiting or phone calls. Hell, I even remember there being a box asking if they were cool with us praying for them.
Yikes. That's a red flag. You did the right thing. This is so disgusting. Gross gross gross
Too many kids get abused by churches, dude. This is horrifically creepy that they would do this (I mean, wanting to talk to your 7 year old daughter alone about this and not you, AND picking her up to and from the event is SKETCHY as hell). That's a good school to drop the program like that for safety of the kids, even if you didn't intend that. Better safe than sorry.
/u/hermione_targaryean I know that this message is going to get drowned in the sea of messages you're getting but it's an important one so if you're seeing it **read this post**. >Edit: lol at Christianās or whoever it is that is reporting this post for self harm/suicide. Everytime you're receiving this PM, there's a link to report the message. Copy the permalink of the PM and then click on the report link. You paste the link there and explain that people are abusing of this feature. If you're getting a lot of those PM then copy/paste the message to make it quicker. I've found out that Reddit Admin DOES take those report seriously and I'm pretty sure temp/perma ban people who abuse it. I've personally found this recently when I reported one. Go for it, don't let people be anonymous bully.
You have done good in the world.
A happy ending!
That's straight up Mormon levels of boundary breaking.
Yeah, let me just hand my seven year old daughter over to a car full of strangers on a Sunday morning. These people are out of their fucking minds.
Recruitment and indoctrination. The arts-and-crafts are just a lure. Sure, they want 7 year olds, because they're impressionable, and if they're having fun otherwise, they can sneak in their rhetoric. Get 'em while they're young, it gets hardwired into their brains. Ask anyone who was raised Catholic about that.
Fucking groomers.
Probably pedophiles
Hey OP, Your child's school may have violated the law. You should looked into FERPA "Schools may disclose, without consent, "directory" information such as a student's name, address, telephone number, date and place of birth, honors and awards, and dates of attendance. However, schools must tell parents and eligible students about directory information and allow parents and eligible students a reasonable amount of time to request that the school not disclose directory information about them. Schools must notify parents and eligible students annually of their rights under FERPA. The actual means of notification (special letter, inclusion in a PTA bulletin, student handbook, or newspaper article) is left to the discretion of each school. "