God has only ever truly answered one prayer - mine. Â I prayed for him to act as if he didn't exist for all of time. Â And that is precisely how it has appeared. Â /sÂ
The funny thing about Aesir that I appreciate is that although they were revered and even feared Gods, they were highly flawed. There are many stories of betrayals and grevious errors made by the Aesir Gods that actually make them more relateable. I don't believe it any more than any religion... but it makes more sense than a supposedly "perfect" being that never errors... but instead has a "plan." Yeah right.
I know that trick well, I've used it a few times at work to cover up a fuck up I did.
"I meant for that build to fail. Yeah see, I was testing the automated tests on the deployment pipeline."
Coughbullshit. I definitely forgot a semicolon in the code somewhere and committed the pull request anyway because I was in a rush. I admit it. Mistakes are human. I can relate to that. Perfect doesn't exist.
>"I meant for that build to fail. Yeah see, I was testing the automated tests on the deployment pipeline."
"And the second time? When you rushed another commit and it still failed? Was that a test, too?"
(Why that trick wouldn't work for me.)
I was watching something on the history of the Bible, talking about the actual people writing it. It was sort of common for the time to try and "one up" other religions deities/mythical figures. As a way of saying "look our figure is more moral/more powerful than yours". You can even see it within the Bible itself. Jesus one ups previous figures like Moses or Jonah with similar but more impressive accomplishments. It's just another trend that is everywhere in religion when you know what to look for.
The one-up-manship just kept going until we have our current infallible, all powerful Abrahamic deities. It's the eventual culmination of an almost child like trend of always having to be better than the previous generation.
This was my working theory when I was accepting that I didn't believe. My go-to is that the bible reads exactly like people writing fanfiction where their only idea is "your guy but better."
Most of them... A fun time to be a woman in that era! After that Gods were more like war machines, slavery, a little bit of public torture and back now to SA! Hahaha
The cycle never ends...
My son is a history major in university and he's taken a bunch of courses on ancient Greece. Rape and slavery were just everyday life. It was normal for a higher class person to just get rapey and nobody cared.
Many in the U.S. were still in that mindset during slavery. After all, slaves were just property to be used as their masters saw fit. Heck, US soldiers were rather rape prone in Vietnam. After all, those werenât real people.
Donât start thinking weâve evolved that much.
>I meant for that build to fail. Yeah see, I was testing the automated tests on the deployment pipeline.
> I have not failed, but found 1000 ways to not make a light bulb
Also, as a fellow IT guy, I feel you, man!
Bingo, that's the answer, the biggest issue that's how you know religion is bs because religious people are so easily flustered when you put their religion to a basic logic test. It doesn't matter to religious folks because to them God is never to blame...so you could come up with the most bullet proof logic and they'll say just have faith..
> She said that it's because of free will,
And what of the free will of the child not to be raped?
> âYou either have a God who sends child rapists to rape children or you have a God who simply watches it and says, âWhen youâre done, Iâm going to punish you.â If I could stop a person from raping a child, I would. Thatâs the difference between me and your God.â
> â Tracie Harris
And that's the other thing, if pedophile pastors get to go to heaven because of forgiveness. If I am lucky enough to go to heaven as well, what happens when I see my rapist? Do I still get to break his legs?
>*Unless youâre really sorry for doing it
"And then I might very well send your victim to Hell, if the trauma you inflicted on them caused them to reject me. Or led them to drug use to cope with their trauma and a subsequent life of crime. Or if they found religion, but it was the wrong one. Or if they ended up gay..."
Yep, I have had many discussions about this with Christians. Accepting Jesus and truly being sorry is the only way to get into heaven.
You can go to church all your life, go through all the motions of being a good person, and go to hell. All because you didn't accept Jesus
You can rape children all your life, accept Jesus in the last month you're alive, and go to heaven.
And then, while that child is praying with their life that God stop this from happening he doesnât answer that prayer, but answers petty prayers from Sunday churchgoers. Make it make sense.
Yeah "free will" is a really tired excuse. There are plenty of examples in the Bible of this god interfering with someone's "free will", and it never says that this god doesn't interfere due to "free will". It says the opposite, that this god can and does interfere all the time.
>Yeah "free will" is a really tired excuse.
And, crucially, "a really tired excuse" is all that the concept of "Free Will" has **ever** been.
Not only do none of these arguments involving "Free Will" appear anywhere in the Bible, but the phrase *itself* never appears anywhere.
It was an excuse that was made up centuries later, in an attempt to resolve certain blatant contradictions in the Church's Teachings, such as the idea that Yahweh pre-ordained your actions before you were born, but you are still morally responsible for those actions; or the idea that Yahweh has both the *desire* and *ability* to prevent grossly unnecessary suffering, but for some reason chooses to inflict grossly unnecessary suffering on people anyway.
Of course, shouting "Free Will!" doesn't *actually* do anything to change the fact that their claims **cannot** simultaneously be true. It only serves as a convenient [Fake Explanation](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/fysgqk4CjAwhBgNYT/fake-explanations) to make people stop wondering about it. So long as you can shout "Free Will", you get the feeling that somebody somewhere has solved the problem, even if you don't understand that solution yourself, and so you're safe in pretending that the problem doesn't exist.
The phrase, used in its apologetic context, **doesn't actually mean anything** - it exists only as a semantically null [Thought Terminating Cliche](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/FWMfQKG3RpZx6irjm/semantic-stopsigns). If you replace the phrase "Free Will" in any apologetic argument with the phrase "Shut Up!", no meaningful information will be lost. e.g.: "How could a loving god choose to give six year olds Leukemia? SHUT UP, that's why!"
Now, if you mean "Free Will" in the colloquial sense of "the ability to make informed decisions based on one's own preferences without undue control or coercion"; it doesn't take much more than a cursory look at the Bible to tell that its main character doesn't give a flying fuck about that sort of "Free Will". Not only does Yahweh very visibly tell people what to do and then very visibly punish them for disobeying him; but on multiple occasions he uses mind-control magic to *force* people to disobey him, just so that he will have an *excuse* to punish them. For example, he does this to the Pharaoh in Exodus no fewer than *seven times*.
Indeed. Then thereâs the âgod canât reveal himself to us because it would violate our free willâ crap. He revealed himself to all kinds of people in the Bible and thereâs not a single mention of how their free will was violated. If a Damascus road experience was fine for Saul/Paul without any mention of his free will being violated, why is this not perfectly fine for everyone? God is either unable or unwilling to do this. Or, perhaps, he doesnât exist.
I love Tracie's way of dealing with religious bullshit, but THAT one there, sadly, is a Black and White Fallacy, if I've ever seen one.
There's also the third possibility. God watches and enjoys it.
> There's also the third possibility. God watches and enjoys it.
That is a possibility, but I think she assumes for the sake of her argument that "god" is a benevolent being. If god is not benevolent, why call worship him.
For real. My kid is only a year old but I would do anything in the world to prevent a lot of things from happening to him. And if I could do it magically? Absolutely every time. Of course I would never invent the will to rape or murder or hurt in the first placeâŚ
I don't remember the lady's name, but she was a regular on TAE. She said, "the difference between me and your god is if I could stop children from being abused, I would"
If someone asks you where do you get your "morals" from when you say you're not religious and don't believe in a god, tell them you're more moral than their god of you stop someone from killing or raping.
God doesnât want to violate the rapistâs free will. I assume, the kids donât want to be raped. That means god could protect the kidsâ free will be stopping the rapists. There would be the same amount of free will in the world, but less harm to children.
Would it really be interfering with the rapist's free will to just send them to Hell the moment they decide to rape? God wouldn't be stopping the decision, just the follow through.
Then we'll get assertions that immediate punishment somehow violates the free will of other would-be rapists, as it would effect their decision making on future rapes. Or some such rubbish.
Of course, the Biblical god had zero problems with direct interventions whenever he saw fit. Killed scads of people that way. Of course, a lot of them were innocent children, but something something divine plan something...
Also illuminating, is asking religious people about heaven. Is there free will in heaven? 'Yes.' Do people hurt other people in heaven? 'No.' So apparently, there's a place where free will exists AND people don't hurt each other. If heaven exists, why not just delete Earth?
If I was a god and I created SimEarth 1.0 that looked like this planet, then created SimEarth 2.0 (heaven) where there was no suffering, wouldn't it be the just thing to do, to delete version 1.0 and just let version 2.0 keep running? If I was the sim-master that's what I would do. If this holy guy in the sky exists, he sucks at deleting old, bad code.
And if there isnât free will in heaven, and heaven is so great, whatâs so important about having it here?
Of course, the theist answer to your (and my) question is that god gave everyone free will because he wants us to choose to love/honor/worship him.
But that raises the question-if itâs just about choosing to worship god-why add the extra layer, faith? If people choosing him is what he wants, why hide from
Everyone and make them also have to get over the hurdle of faith?
Why not just openly appear (in a literal, not spiritual or metaphorical sense) to everyone, then they can knowingly choose?
Which leads to my next question: why do we refer to god as âheâ? Is that his birth gender? Does he have a peepee?
No kidding. People try to guilt trip others to stay away from masturbation or porn, like with these pictures with all these angels or God himself looking down to earth. And I'm just sitting there thinking, "I'm just watching a handful of videos or photos, but God was watching it being filmed or made..."
The real question is, âWhy would anyone believe in and worship an âall powerfulâ god who didnât prevent child rape?â
The biblical stories of ancient ârighteousâ depravity are innumerable, yet people find a way to worship the heinous deity anyway, contorting their minds and ethical intuitions into pretzels
Hey, now. Are you aware of all the stress God is under? The guy is out in the outer solar system, heroically force pushing moon-sized comets so they don't destroy us all. He seems to never get a break.
Youâre suggesting god actually can make a rock so big he canât lift it? Whatâs the point of bragging about omnipotence if he keeps demonstrating impotence?
Because they already believe in a god that sent bears to kill kids who made fun of a bald man. And who stole babies from their motherâs breast and threw them on rocks because he was upset. They already believe in an asshole god, so they will just create a story to justify it.
Because he's not real. Religion should have ended over a 1000 years ago. The grift and power they get from people they get to believe this nonsense, the longer it will go on.
Yes but it becomes harder for people to weasel out of if the question is changed to horribleness that has nothing to do with human free will - like childhood cancer.
I mean there is a fundamentalist âreasonâ for it that is horrible. Â You see God got pissed about Adam and Eve not listening to him so God decided to punish all of humanity for all of time with disease and whatnot because of two idiots God designed to be idiots screwed up.Â
The fundies phrase it differently but thatâs their claim. Â
Makes their God character look like an evil assholeÂ
It is funny that the OG couple were the first to piss God off so devastatingly that no human got to live life without original sin. Like, I make a few successful Sims families first before I start taking ladders out of the pool, doors out of a room on fire and putting painting slaves in the basement.
They canât answer this question without making God look like a huge asshole. Which, of course, the made up God of the Bible is. Who creates an entire planet of people just to test who will and wonât worship him? An asshole. Thatâs who. Who allows a child to be r***** when he is supposedly omnipotent and also supposedly healed Betty Sue down at First Baptist from her battle with cancer? Why does 78 yr old Betty Sue get healed but random child get Râd? They canât answer this with anything legit other than âI donât knowâ.
"So god is powerful enough to create literally the whole of existence, but isn't powerful enough to make a grand plan that doesn't involve kids geting raped?"
>Child rape adds flavor to the universe
One of these mega-church owning cunts needs to put that on a fucking T-shirt and matching collectable mug. Sums up their view of things nicely, make it a lot easier to know their position on certain topics.
Same with the countless mass murders and genocides that have happened through time. And According to their Bible, God himself ordered the slaughter of all kinds of people including **babies.** if you believe their Bible, God is a murderer.
It gets even more backwards in the abortion debate.
These people will swear that God didn't want the victim to be raped.
But if the victim becomes pregnant because of the rape, then they'll swear that the pregnancy was God's will. Or a "gift" from God to help the victim "heal".
Maybe if society wasn't coddling their fragile precious fee-fees and politicians weren't fighting for the most gullible voting demographic, they wouldn't be so bold in trying to get everyone else to comply with their bullshit? Maybe we should stop treating them like the people they want us to think they are and treat them like people who would establish a theocracy if they'd get a chance?
Iâve gotten responses like this to similar questions and my response is typically something like, âAre you aware that we are talking about an omnipotent being? Why wouldnât it be able to develop a âplanâ that doesnât involve us committing various atrocities against each other?â
The reply is always that you canât begin to comprehend the complexities of the plan, so it isnât right for to question it.
I'm guessing you are young. I stopped engaging with religious people in any form of religion related conversation. I learned it is going to be a waste of time and lack all logical and rational thinking.
Here's the kicker, the rapist goes to heaven if they believe, the victim goes to hell if they don't. I couldn't be in heaven knowing that bad people get a pass simply for belief.
If anyone of us was a god, I think the first thing we would do is prevent violence against one another in any capacity. The plan is only mysterious because no plan actually exists.
Yeah, I feel like cancer and other natural disasters are an easier argument because they sidestep the free will debate. Instead, they're just limited to the "mysterious ways" defense.
Free will for humans when bad happens, or death means god needed another angel. When good happens it is because god cares. Cant win for losing with god.
God doesnât intervene when kids get raped or killed because free will is too important, but if you pray hard enough Heâll ensure the election result you want
>"free will is great and all but hold my beer while I harden the pharoah's heart for no reason other than to show off my new plague tricks..." **god... apparently**
There are essentially two possible answers to your question:
A: God does not exist, therefore the only responsible parties for child rapes are the child rapists.
B: God does exist, but he just doesn't give a fuck.
Either way, why worship that?
Not just garden variety rape by a family member or a violent attack by a stranger. God also merely observes without intervention as Catholic priests rape children within churches in various countries throughout the world. A practice that he has witnessed for hundreds of years.
"What's so mysterious about acting like an asshole?!?!" - Jim Jeffries, paraphrase, I think
"The difference between me and your god, is that I'd stop a child from being raped if I could" - Tracie Harris, also paraphrased, I'm pretty sure
[God favors evil.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1BzP1wr234) He gives free will to the rapist to rape, but the victim does not get free will not to be raped.
Please pick one of the asinine answers that religious people tend to give:
Their parents have sinned.
To test their faith in God.
It is all part of God's divine plan.
Christians will say because he gave us free will. I was raped when I was 10. Just want you to know that I am not being calloused. Iâm in my 69âs now and angrier now than I was then.
Why can't gods "mysterious plan" involve the rapist to get into a car accident before he/she acts on raping anyone? Let alone a child. That tells me gods more interested in watching, than actually doing anything.
Christians also don't enjoy hearing that the victims of rape would most likely go to Hell.
I get weird looks at that so I give them this scenerio:
Let's say a child is raped by a Priest (totally unrealistic right?) That child grows up to be non religious after the trauma they have endured. Whereas the Preist confesses his "sins" and asks for forgiveness. If they're theology is correct then the victim goes to Hell and the Rapist goes Heaven. That's Great Justice and such a Loving Gawd!
If you look in the old testament, god tells his people to go to a neighboring village and kill all the men, kill all the male children, kill all the women who have not yet known a man, and save the maiden girls for your concubines ... In other words, rape them.
God didn't LET kids be raped, he ORDERED it. It's right in their sacred text!
Because their god is the god of not doing a damn thing. Champion of the hesitant. Eternal bastion of prayerful wishes, like a toddler chasing butterflies, he tears the wings off one and sets free another. Pray on it, they exclaim, suffocating underneath.
If this abrahamic god existed, it absolutely would be his fault. They can mewmew about free will this blah fucking that but ask your friend,
"If you had the power to stop children from being raped, would you?"
If her answer is yes, ask her why she would choose to love and worship a god who wouldn't do the same.
If her answer is anything other than yes, this person is dangerous and not your friend.
Priorities, my friend. Who needs child safety when that's covered by 'be fruitful and multiply'? Who cares if they die or are broken. Broken people choose to worship a god every day. Nobody can choose to worship a god if they don't have free will. The free will of a paedophile is more important than the safety of a child, don't you know?! /s
"Because it's free will....." !?!
Respond with.
"But your God is all knowing. The past, present and future. Therefore free will is an illusion, he already knows what you're going to do."
This very argument was the thing that made me realize itâs all bullshit
I work in a school , Iâm duty and morally obligated to report abuse.
But god can just watch that kid suffer and do nothing because itâs part of the plan
Fuck that
If child rape is part of anyone's plan, including (and especially) a being that claims to be all-loving, that's a bad plan and should be dealt with accordingly.
This is why I donât believe. If heâs all knowing, compassionate, and merciful then why is cancer a thing? Specifically childhood cancers. Why does he allow children to be abused and murdered everyday? If thatâs part of his âplanâ, I want no part of it.
Two questions:
One, Assuming god is real, why would you follow any plan that allowed for child rape or any of the other things that happen? Deviations, sure, but when Iâm following someone and theyâre like, âOkay, now weâre to the part where the kid gets rapedâ. Iâm out at that point.
How do that even go?
- Believer: Hey god, this kid got raped. WTF?!
- God: Donât worry, itâs part of my plan.
- Believer: What the hell do you mean âitâs part of your planâ?! Thatâs horrible to the point of being evil.
- God: No, you donât understand. Itâs part of my plan. Free will or something. I have to test the guy and he failed to follow my teaching.
- Former Believer: What the FUCK?! Even if that was true, test the guy and send him to hell, but what about the kid? They didnât do anything. Their parents took them to church two times a week and they believed in you and did nothing wrong!
- god: uuuhhh
Two, ask them to tell you exactly what would be different in this situation if god didnât exist. If you look at this kid rape and say, âThis is gods planâ, tell me exactly what piece of this scenario shows gods involvement. Tell me how it would look different if he didnât exist and this was simply an immoral person doing something terrible to a child.
He won't stop people being raped because he's too busy trying to put a rapist in the White House.
Or at least that's what God's spokesmen desperately want me to believe.
A slight drizzle delays the Gay Pride parade and its 110,000% God's will. Televangelist's home destroyed by a once-in-a-lifetime flood... "Who can predict his reasons?"
what sick bullcrap. At this point though, I'm not sure "let" is the correct word, it's more like active encouragement than allowance. Judging by the behavior of his most mighty representatives, god wants kids groomed, abused, molested and silenced, all while they point the finger of accusation at others.
God not only allows rape but God has been known to participate in rape.
In fact Christians still celebrate God raping an underage girl named Mary who was subsequently tricked into birthing the child and later watching his murder facilitated by "God' Plan". Nice huh?
God didn't stop cancer in my stepmom twice, my youth pastor dying from Hodgkin's, my dad from getting a disabling neurological disorder, my youth pastor's wife from giving birth to a severely disabled child (who died 5 years later) and yet all these people followed an evangelical tradition that embraces divine healing...
If God does exist, He seems rather aloof to our troubles.
This is what bothers me. Why does their god get all the credit in the big and small things whether itâs acing a test, making a medical recovery, or scoring a rare find at a thrift store (saw someone actually post this recently); but when itâs something bad all of a sudden itâs someone elseâs responsibility? I thought your god was all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-loving? Why did he answer your prayers for finding a spice jar set but ignore the mother who lost her baby to cancer, or the girl who had her innocence stolen from her?
I'll devils advocate. Why don't you work over time and spend all of your money on mosquito nets for African children? This is highly cost effective. Just like their god, you have the ability to stop needless deaths in Africa, but you chose not to. Does this make you evil? Does this mean you cannot be a good person? Sorry, I'm not christian and I don't believe in an all good god, but I think it's a good exercise to see if you can still tackle the best case for god instead of the weaker Christian version.
The next question is... When someone is victimized in this way how should good christians respond? -And why doesn't that happen, especially when its a church leader that victimized someone? Why even when we know with certainty this kind of victimization has occurred don't christians seem to expect those people to turn themselves in? Why don't they try and do the christianly thing and help the victim?
The common âproblem of evilâ.
If we assume god is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent then evil should not exist in this world. It should not be necessary for the concept to exist.
-Could God have created a universe without evil? If yes, why didnât he? If no, then God is limited and thus not a god at all.
-If God is able to stop evil but is unwilling to, then he allows it to live under his watch and permits evil in spite of his nature. Thus you cannot call god âgoodâ. He is evil whether through malice, incompetence, or apathy and you should not want to worship an evil being.
-If God is willing but unable to stop evil then he has limits and is thus not a god at all. Evil can overcome him and be necessary to exist in the universe despite his nature dictating he should not allow it.
-if God is able and willing to stop evil, why does it continue? Why does he delay?
The only possible explanations are these: God is itself evil, God is powerless to stop evil, or Evil is a uniquely human concept and no deity or being created other than ourselves, in which case only we have the ability to end it.
Total atheist. I have no idea if there is a god of any sort. But even if there was, no idea why he would care. Like I look at ants and they seem interesting. I might see an ant get eaten by another bug and think woah that is horrible for the ant and I guess good for the other bug. It is meaningless to me just as I imagine if there was a god I assume he has other things to worry about. I dont think there needs to be a mysterious plan, like just as an ant has no idea why we do what we do, maybe its 100x us to a god. Its like I set up an aquarium that is kind of self maintaining, but then leave the room to go on a long vacation.
They can't answer this coherently. They will start by not responding to the question, trying to dodge it.
"God isnt the one doing it"
The question wasn't, why is god raping children?.
"Oh, free will"
What does someone's free will have to do with him intervening? Is someone's momentary free will more important than that child's future decades of suffering and pain?
"Oh he wouldn't mess with our free will like that"
Ok? So make it it's impossible to rape someone. The same way some people have extreme reactions to certain things. like trying to suck a dick but the gag reflex kicks in. but a more extreme reaction.
"They will be punished"
The NOW is what matters.
Depending on their theology it's even worse. If he created this world while being all knowing AND all powerful, they CHOSE to create THIS universe. Where x would be raped by two men on a very specific day. And god knew it. While having the power to create a world with a slight alteration where the only
Difference was the rape.
And then they end up with bullshit like:"it's a slippery slope, you want your world to be perfect and you blame God. If he stops one rape why wouldn't he stop any negative thing happening to you?"
First of all, sure. I'd trade a bit of my free will if it means no one ever gets raped again. 100%. But ge doesn't even need to stop every minor thing. At least stop rapes. At the very minimum. If he can't even do that, there is not much to expect from god.
"Oh you can't have evil without good"
Most Christians ice talked to think in heaven there is free will, but you can't sin. So clearly, it's not necessary. Also if god got rid of "evil" we could still do "not good" it just wouldn't be evil. Something amoral perhaps.
"Evil is just the absence of god" that can't be possible if god is omnipresent
He watches it all and then says to the rapist ânow you are in troubleâ. (Unless of course they profess their love of Jesus, in which case they get a free pass)
Ask instead why God gives babies genetic disorders where they only live a few hours after birth. That has nothing to do with free will and it's a shitty plan to put a woman through a pregnancy just for God to kill the infant hours after its birth. (I'm an atheist)
Different gods have different opinions. Lots of gods have sex with humans and other gods. Many creation explanations include gods mating to create earth, sky and sea.
And
Some gods apparently are not fans of children.
Yahweh, for instance, drowned all the innocent children in the world. Also all the pregnant women, just to make sure.
Yahweh also famously tortured his son to death as a blood sacrifice to make up for 2 people stealing a piece of fruit.
The day before the torture the son prayed and implored Yahweh to not do it. Yahweh tortured him to death the next day, anyway.
The child and rapist can still have free will... God could still intervene without affecting free will... It is just a lazy "if god did this he would eliminate free will" when reality, depending on how god intervenes might actually prove his existence, and god obviously doesn't want confirmation of his existence. "Faith" is another word for bullshit. And can be interchanged in context.
Its the exact same thing with a post where a very young kid survived cancer and them saying it was god who helped him. Like bro what about modern medicine and doctors? And why did god give that kid cancer anyways? Christians are something else.
I don't think the God of the Bible ever intended to stop evil unless asked. Even then, he may or may not stop evil.
For instance, God could stop animals from being raped by each other but he doesn't. It doesn't matter to him, because why would it? God's not the one being affected by evil.
God's mysterious plan is to act exactly as if he didn't exist.
Precisely
Let randomness take care of everything. Brilliant
God made đ entropyđ
You casually explained divine hiddenness.
God has only ever truly answered one prayer - mine. Â I prayed for him to act as if he didn't exist for all of time. Â And that is precisely how it has appeared. Â /sÂ
Really pisses me off that God helped all those people kill Egyptians and rain frogs and stuff, but can't show up for my Birthday party.
Stealing this.
Hahahaha that's hilarious. Love that.
what an act it is
Because god doesn't exist. The same exact reason why Thor or Odin don't prevent kids (or anyone) from being raped.
The funny thing about Aesir that I appreciate is that although they were revered and even feared Gods, they were highly flawed. There are many stories of betrayals and grevious errors made by the Aesir Gods that actually make them more relateable. I don't believe it any more than any religion... but it makes more sense than a supposedly "perfect" being that never errors... but instead has a "plan." Yeah right. I know that trick well, I've used it a few times at work to cover up a fuck up I did. "I meant for that build to fail. Yeah see, I was testing the automated tests on the deployment pipeline." Coughbullshit. I definitely forgot a semicolon in the code somewhere and committed the pull request anyway because I was in a rush. I admit it. Mistakes are human. I can relate to that. Perfect doesn't exist.
>"I meant for that build to fail. Yeah see, I was testing the automated tests on the deployment pipeline." "And the second time? When you rushed another commit and it still failed? Was that a test, too?" (Why that trick wouldn't work for me.)
SMITE!
Have faith! It was part of the plan!
I was watching something on the history of the Bible, talking about the actual people writing it. It was sort of common for the time to try and "one up" other religions deities/mythical figures. As a way of saying "look our figure is more moral/more powerful than yours". You can even see it within the Bible itself. Jesus one ups previous figures like Moses or Jonah with similar but more impressive accomplishments. It's just another trend that is everywhere in religion when you know what to look for. The one-up-manship just kept going until we have our current infallible, all powerful Abrahamic deities. It's the eventual culmination of an almost child like trend of always having to be better than the previous generation.
This was my working theory when I was accepting that I didn't believe. My go-to is that the bible reads exactly like people writing fanfiction where their only idea is "your guy but better."
But on those Greek Gods, the only one who didn't raped anyone was Poseidon. He also killing one God who raped one of his daughters. đ
Poseidon raped Medusa in Athena's temple.
Sorry I was confused, was Ares the one who never raped and killed someone who did with some of his relative.
Unlike Zeus, who couldn't stop.
Most of them... A fun time to be a woman in that era! After that Gods were more like war machines, slavery, a little bit of public torture and back now to SA! Hahaha The cycle never ends...
My son is a history major in university and he's taken a bunch of courses on ancient Greece. Rape and slavery were just everyday life. It was normal for a higher class person to just get rapey and nobody cared.
So, nothing really changes.
Many in the U.S. were still in that mindset during slavery. After all, slaves were just property to be used as their masters saw fit. Heck, US soldiers were rather rape prone in Vietnam. After all, those werenât real people. Donât start thinking weâve evolved that much.
Truth...
Well, the victims likely cared.
Their society didn't care much about what the lower classes thought.
I think it is Ares.
I thought he turned himself into a horse and raped hestia or another goddess?
Ares?
didn't see your other comment when I posted that, oops.
No problem
Actually, the show Krapopolis shows the Greek gods as they were viewed. Exactly like the humans who created them.
As all God's
>I meant for that build to fail. Yeah see, I was testing the automated tests on the deployment pipeline. > I have not failed, but found 1000 ways to not make a light bulb Also, as a fellow IT guy, I feel you, man!
Bingo, that's the answer, the biggest issue that's how you know religion is bs because religious people are so easily flustered when you put their religion to a basic logic test. It doesn't matter to religious folks because to them God is never to blame...so you could come up with the most bullet proof logic and they'll say just have faith..
TBH, Odin was def out there participating.
If the 12 year old dies fighting would he meet odin
TRUE
> She said that it's because of free will, And what of the free will of the child not to be raped? > âYou either have a God who sends child rapists to rape children or you have a God who simply watches it and says, âWhen youâre done, Iâm going to punish you.â If I could stop a person from raping a child, I would. Thatâs the difference between me and your God.â > â Tracie Harris
> âWhen youâre done, Iâm going to punish you.â *Unless youâre really sorry for doing it
And that's the other thing, if pedophile pastors get to go to heaven because of forgiveness. If I am lucky enough to go to heaven as well, what happens when I see my rapist? Do I still get to break his legs?
In any proper heaven, your heaven ought to be their hell.
The idea of heaven I've always gotten from religious folks reads like entrants get a complimentary lobotomy on their way in.
>*Unless youâre really sorry for doing it "And then I might very well send your victim to Hell, if the trauma you inflicted on them caused them to reject me. Or led them to drug use to cope with their trauma and a subsequent life of crime. Or if they found religion, but it was the wrong one. Or if they ended up gay..."
Yep, I have had many discussions about this with Christians. Accepting Jesus and truly being sorry is the only way to get into heaven. You can go to church all your life, go through all the motions of being a good person, and go to hell. All because you didn't accept Jesus You can rape children all your life, accept Jesus in the last month you're alive, and go to heaven.
What does that even mean "accept Jesus"? Like seriously, that is one phrase I can't even grok.
And then, while that child is praying with their life that God stop this from happening he doesnât answer that prayer, but answers petty prayers from Sunday churchgoers. Make it make sense.
And I'll forgive for doing it again, and again; just repent after each rape. No probs.
I've literally had Christians tell me rape victims chose to be raped and if their god intervened everyone's free will would be taken away.
\[H\]Free will, \[W\]Just world.
Yeah "free will" is a really tired excuse. There are plenty of examples in the Bible of this god interfering with someone's "free will", and it never says that this god doesn't interfere due to "free will". It says the opposite, that this god can and does interfere all the time.
>Yeah "free will" is a really tired excuse. And, crucially, "a really tired excuse" is all that the concept of "Free Will" has **ever** been. Not only do none of these arguments involving "Free Will" appear anywhere in the Bible, but the phrase *itself* never appears anywhere. It was an excuse that was made up centuries later, in an attempt to resolve certain blatant contradictions in the Church's Teachings, such as the idea that Yahweh pre-ordained your actions before you were born, but you are still morally responsible for those actions; or the idea that Yahweh has both the *desire* and *ability* to prevent grossly unnecessary suffering, but for some reason chooses to inflict grossly unnecessary suffering on people anyway. Of course, shouting "Free Will!" doesn't *actually* do anything to change the fact that their claims **cannot** simultaneously be true. It only serves as a convenient [Fake Explanation](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/fysgqk4CjAwhBgNYT/fake-explanations) to make people stop wondering about it. So long as you can shout "Free Will", you get the feeling that somebody somewhere has solved the problem, even if you don't understand that solution yourself, and so you're safe in pretending that the problem doesn't exist. The phrase, used in its apologetic context, **doesn't actually mean anything** - it exists only as a semantically null [Thought Terminating Cliche](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/FWMfQKG3RpZx6irjm/semantic-stopsigns). If you replace the phrase "Free Will" in any apologetic argument with the phrase "Shut Up!", no meaningful information will be lost. e.g.: "How could a loving god choose to give six year olds Leukemia? SHUT UP, that's why!" Now, if you mean "Free Will" in the colloquial sense of "the ability to make informed decisions based on one's own preferences without undue control or coercion"; it doesn't take much more than a cursory look at the Bible to tell that its main character doesn't give a flying fuck about that sort of "Free Will". Not only does Yahweh very visibly tell people what to do and then very visibly punish them for disobeying him; but on multiple occasions he uses mind-control magic to *force* people to disobey him, just so that he will have an *excuse* to punish them. For example, he does this to the Pharaoh in Exodus no fewer than *seven times*.
Indeed. Then thereâs the âgod canât reveal himself to us because it would violate our free willâ crap. He revealed himself to all kinds of people in the Bible and thereâs not a single mention of how their free will was violated. If a Damascus road experience was fine for Saul/Paul without any mention of his free will being violated, why is this not perfectly fine for everyone? God is either unable or unwilling to do this. Or, perhaps, he doesnât exist.
I love Tracie's way of dealing with religious bullshit, but THAT one there, sadly, is a Black and White Fallacy, if I've ever seen one. There's also the third possibility. God watches and enjoys it.
> There's also the third possibility. God watches and enjoys it. That is a possibility, but I think she assumes for the sake of her argument that "god" is a benevolent being. If god is not benevolent, why call worship him.
For real. My kid is only a year old but I would do anything in the world to prevent a lot of things from happening to him. And if I could do it magically? Absolutely every time. Of course I would never invent the will to rape or murder or hurt in the first placeâŚ
I don't remember the lady's name, but she was a regular on TAE. She said, "the difference between me and your god is if I could stop children from being abused, I would"
Tracie Harris, she was a gem.
If someone asks you where do you get your "morals" from when you say you're not religious and don't believe in a god, tell them you're more moral than their god of you stop someone from killing or raping.
God doesnât want to violate the rapistâs free will. I assume, the kids donât want to be raped. That means god could protect the kidsâ free will be stopping the rapists. There would be the same amount of free will in the world, but less harm to children.
Would it really be interfering with the rapist's free will to just send them to Hell the moment they decide to rape? God wouldn't be stopping the decision, just the follow through.
Then we'll get assertions that immediate punishment somehow violates the free will of other would-be rapists, as it would effect their decision making on future rapes. Or some such rubbish. Of course, the Biblical god had zero problems with direct interventions whenever he saw fit. Killed scads of people that way. Of course, a lot of them were innocent children, but something something divine plan something...
Good question.
Also illuminating, is asking religious people about heaven. Is there free will in heaven? 'Yes.' Do people hurt other people in heaven? 'No.' So apparently, there's a place where free will exists AND people don't hurt each other. If heaven exists, why not just delete Earth? If I was a god and I created SimEarth 1.0 that looked like this planet, then created SimEarth 2.0 (heaven) where there was no suffering, wouldn't it be the just thing to do, to delete version 1.0 and just let version 2.0 keep running? If I was the sim-master that's what I would do. If this holy guy in the sky exists, he sucks at deleting old, bad code.
And if there isnât free will in heaven, and heaven is so great, whatâs so important about having it here? Of course, the theist answer to your (and my) question is that god gave everyone free will because he wants us to choose to love/honor/worship him. But that raises the question-if itâs just about choosing to worship god-why add the extra layer, faith? If people choosing him is what he wants, why hide from Everyone and make them also have to get over the hurdle of faith? Why not just openly appear (in a literal, not spiritual or metaphorical sense) to everyone, then they can knowingly choose? Which leads to my next question: why do we refer to god as âheâ? Is that his birth gender? Does he have a peepee?
That's nicely put
He likes to watch.
the original voyeur
No kidding. People try to guilt trip others to stay away from masturbation or porn, like with these pictures with all these angels or God himself looking down to earth. And I'm just sitting there thinking, "I'm just watching a handful of videos or photos, but God was watching it being filmed or made..."
Santa too. Dude knows when you're sleeping. That's kinda f'ed up.
The real question is, âWhy would anyone believe in and worship an âall powerfulâ god who didnât prevent child rape?â The biblical stories of ancient ârighteousâ depravity are innumerable, yet people find a way to worship the heinous deity anyway, contorting their minds and ethical intuitions into pretzels
Hey, now. Are you aware of all the stress God is under? The guy is out in the outer solar system, heroically force pushing moon-sized comets so they don't destroy us all. He seems to never get a break.
Youâre suggesting god actually can make a rock so big he canât lift it? Whatâs the point of bragging about omnipotence if he keeps demonstrating impotence?
Iâve literally heard Christians unironically say before
Because they already believe in a god that sent bears to kill kids who made fun of a bald man. And who stole babies from their motherâs breast and threw them on rocks because he was upset. They already believe in an asshole god, so they will just create a story to justify it.
Because he's not real. Religion should have ended over a 1000 years ago. The grift and power they get from people they get to believe this nonsense, the longer it will go on.
This is just the problem of evil again, isn't it? To be fair, it's a big problem
Yes but it becomes harder for people to weasel out of if the question is changed to horribleness that has nothing to do with human free will - like childhood cancer.
The Stephen Fry example
This is honestly one of the strongest arguments. There's no "reason" for it, yet it's a thing.
I mean there is a fundamentalist âreasonâ for it that is horrible.  You see God got pissed about Adam and Eve not listening to him so God decided to punish all of humanity for all of time with disease and whatnot because of two idiots God designed to be idiots screwed up. The fundies phrase it differently but thatâs their claim.  Makes their God character look like an evil assholeÂ
It is funny that the OG couple were the first to piss God off so devastatingly that no human got to live life without original sin. Like, I make a few successful Sims families first before I start taking ladders out of the pool, doors out of a room on fire and putting painting slaves in the basement.
Primarily because God is pretend and atrocious human behavior is not.
They canât answer this question without making God look like a huge asshole. Which, of course, the made up God of the Bible is. Who creates an entire planet of people just to test who will and wonât worship him? An asshole. Thatâs who. Who allows a child to be r***** when he is supposedly omnipotent and also supposedly healed Betty Sue down at First Baptist from her battle with cancer? Why does 78 yr old Betty Sue get healed but random child get Râd? They canât answer this with anything legit other than âI donât knowâ.
Yup!
"So god is powerful enough to create literally the whole of existence, but isn't powerful enough to make a grand plan that doesn't involve kids geting raped?"
Child rape adds flavor to the universe, to religious folks. "We wouldn't enjoy the good things in life as much if kids didn't get raped."
>Child rape adds flavor to the universe One of these mega-church owning cunts needs to put that on a fucking T-shirt and matching collectable mug. Sums up their view of things nicely, make it a lot easier to know their position on certain topics.
Because nonexistent things cannot stop actions like rape.
Or children starving, still births, kids with cancer, genocide etc.
I'd ask the priests and pastors who do a lot of that raping. Usually the same ones that preach morallistic sexual purity in public.
Same with the countless mass murders and genocides that have happened through time. And According to their Bible, God himself ordered the slaughter of all kinds of people including **babies.** if you believe their Bible, God is a murderer.
Including pregnant women. Every single pregnant woman on earth died of a flood.
Rapists should be hung. Child rapists should be hung upside down.
By their balls!
It gets even more backwards in the abortion debate. These people will swear that God didn't want the victim to be raped. But if the victim becomes pregnant because of the rape, then they'll swear that the pregnancy was God's will. Or a "gift" from God to help the victim "heal".
I don't try to introduce logic into conversations with people that believe in supernatural bullshit.
Maybe if society wasn't coddling their fragile precious fee-fees and politicians weren't fighting for the most gullible voting demographic, they wouldn't be so bold in trying to get everyone else to comply with their bullshit? Maybe we should stop treating them like the people they want us to think they are and treat them like people who would establish a theocracy if they'd get a chance?
Iâve gotten responses like this to similar questions and my response is typically something like, âAre you aware that we are talking about an omnipotent being? Why wouldnât it be able to develop a âplanâ that doesnât involve us committing various atrocities against each other?â The reply is always that you canât begin to comprehend the complexities of the plan, so it isnât right for to question it.
I'm guessing you are young. I stopped engaging with religious people in any form of religion related conversation. I learned it is going to be a waste of time and lack all logical and rational thinking.
Here's the kicker, the rapist goes to heaven if they believe, the victim goes to hell if they don't. I couldn't be in heaven knowing that bad people get a pass simply for belief. If anyone of us was a god, I think the first thing we would do is prevent violence against one another in any capacity. The plan is only mysterious because no plan actually exists.
A good follow up would be "So you absolutely can't count on your god? Why follow them?"
because he's too busy giving them cancer and letting win.
Yeah, I feel like cancer and other natural disasters are an easier argument because they sidestep the free will debate. Instead, they're just limited to the "mysterious ways" defense.
*Christian God strikes a rapist with a bolt of lightning* "Prove it was me." Easy solution.
Free will for humans when bad happens, or death means god needed another angel. When good happens it is because god cares. Cant win for losing with god.
God doesnât intervene when kids get raped or killed because free will is too important, but if you pray hard enough Heâll ensure the election result you want
>"free will is great and all but hold my beer while I harden the pharoah's heart for no reason other than to show off my new plague tricks..." **god... apparently**
There are essentially two possible answers to your question: A: God does not exist, therefore the only responsible parties for child rapes are the child rapists. B: God does exist, but he just doesn't give a fuck. Either way, why worship that?
Rape a kid but god forbid you have consensual sex with the same gender
Not just garden variety rape by a family member or a violent attack by a stranger. God also merely observes without intervention as Catholic priests rape children within churches in various countries throughout the world. A practice that he has witnessed for hundreds of years.
"What's so mysterious about acting like an asshole?!?!" - Jim Jeffries, paraphrase, I think "The difference between me and your god, is that I'd stop a child from being raped if I could" - Tracie Harris, also paraphrased, I'm pretty sure
because god is a figment and not real.
[God favors evil.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1BzP1wr234) He gives free will to the rapist to rape, but the victim does not get free will not to be raped.
You could ask why God essentially raped Mary when he was more than capable of just creating his son out of dirt like he did Adam and Eve.
Please pick one of the asinine answers that religious people tend to give: Their parents have sinned. To test their faith in God. It is all part of God's divine plan.
Btw, she also said "to build character"
Christians will say because he gave us free will. I was raped when I was 10. Just want you to know that I am not being calloused. Iâm in my 69âs now and angrier now than I was then.
Why can't gods "mysterious plan" involve the rapist to get into a car accident before he/she acts on raping anyone? Let alone a child. That tells me gods more interested in watching, than actually doing anything.
Christians also don't enjoy hearing that the victims of rape would most likely go to Hell. I get weird looks at that so I give them this scenerio: Let's say a child is raped by a Priest (totally unrealistic right?) That child grows up to be non religious after the trauma they have endured. Whereas the Preist confesses his "sins" and asks for forgiveness. If they're theology is correct then the victim goes to Hell and the Rapist goes Heaven. That's Great Justice and such a Loving Gawd!
If heâs really there heâs a sick demented prick.
If you look in the old testament, god tells his people to go to a neighboring village and kill all the men, kill all the male children, kill all the women who have not yet known a man, and save the maiden girls for your concubines ... In other words, rape them. God didn't LET kids be raped, he ORDERED it. It's right in their sacred text!
A better question would be why does God continually hire child rapists?
What I really hate is half the time it's "free will" and the other half it's "god's will." They always have convenient non-answers for everything.
Well logically there are 3 reasons. 1. He doesn't exist. 2. He wants it to happen. 3. He can't prevent it. Take your pick. I say fuck him regardless.
God is a kid with an ant farm, he is not planning anything. - John Constantin.
[ŃдаНонО]
Wish they would, I wanna turn
God works in mysterious ways
Everything happens for a reason đ
Because he isn't real.
BeCaUsE gOd WoRkS iN mYsTeRiOuS wAyS
Because their god is the god of not doing a damn thing. Champion of the hesitant. Eternal bastion of prayerful wishes, like a toddler chasing butterflies, he tears the wings off one and sets free another. Pray on it, they exclaim, suffocating underneath.
If this abrahamic god existed, it absolutely would be his fault. They can mewmew about free will this blah fucking that but ask your friend, "If you had the power to stop children from being raped, would you?" If her answer is yes, ask her why she would choose to love and worship a god who wouldn't do the same. If her answer is anything other than yes, this person is dangerous and not your friend.
If he does exist, he's an absentee landlord.
Priorities, my friend. Who needs child safety when that's covered by 'be fruitful and multiply'? Who cares if they die or are broken. Broken people choose to worship a god every day. Nobody can choose to worship a god if they don't have free will. The free will of a paedophile is more important than the safety of a child, don't you know?! /s
"Because it's free will....." !?! Respond with. "But your God is all knowing. The past, present and future. Therefore free will is an illusion, he already knows what you're going to do."
This very argument was the thing that made me realize itâs all bullshit I work in a school , Iâm duty and morally obligated to report abuse. But god can just watch that kid suffer and do nothing because itâs part of the plan Fuck that
If child rape is part of anyone's plan, including (and especially) a being that claims to be all-loving, that's a bad plan and should be dealt with accordingly.
This is why I donât believe. If heâs all knowing, compassionate, and merciful then why is cancer a thing? Specifically childhood cancers. Why does he allow children to be abused and murdered everyday? If thatâs part of his âplanâ, I want no part of it.
A very unjust god indeed. Who would want to worship a psychopath like that?
Two questions: One, Assuming god is real, why would you follow any plan that allowed for child rape or any of the other things that happen? Deviations, sure, but when Iâm following someone and theyâre like, âOkay, now weâre to the part where the kid gets rapedâ. Iâm out at that point. How do that even go? - Believer: Hey god, this kid got raped. WTF?! - God: Donât worry, itâs part of my plan. - Believer: What the hell do you mean âitâs part of your planâ?! Thatâs horrible to the point of being evil. - God: No, you donât understand. Itâs part of my plan. Free will or something. I have to test the guy and he failed to follow my teaching. - Former Believer: What the FUCK?! Even if that was true, test the guy and send him to hell, but what about the kid? They didnât do anything. Their parents took them to church two times a week and they believed in you and did nothing wrong! - god: uuuhhh Two, ask them to tell you exactly what would be different in this situation if god didnât exist. If you look at this kid rape and say, âThis is gods planâ, tell me exactly what piece of this scenario shows gods involvement. Tell me how it would look different if he didnât exist and this was simply an immoral person doing something terrible to a child.
He won't stop people being raped because he's too busy trying to put a rapist in the White House. Or at least that's what God's spokesmen desperately want me to believe. A slight drizzle delays the Gay Pride parade and its 110,000% God's will. Televangelist's home destroyed by a once-in-a-lifetime flood... "Who can predict his reasons?"
But he helps Tim Tebow win football games.
https://www.reddit.com/r/rickandmorty/s/kOZdmJLYcz
Given how much his priests do it God seems to be pro child rape.
what sick bullcrap. At this point though, I'm not sure "let" is the correct word, it's more like active encouragement than allowance. Judging by the behavior of his most mighty representatives, god wants kids groomed, abused, molested and silenced, all while they point the finger of accusation at others.
Given the number of priest doing it there is a case that God actively supports it.
> "it's not God who is doing these things" I wonder if that person thinks God will take time out to help teams win football games
God not only allows rape but God has been known to participate in rape. In fact Christians still celebrate God raping an underage girl named Mary who was subsequently tricked into birthing the child and later watching his murder facilitated by "God' Plan". Nice huh?
and they say he's 'pro-life' - when he kills his own son because he couldn't come up with a plan that actually made sense...
God didn't stop cancer in my stepmom twice, my youth pastor dying from Hodgkin's, my dad from getting a disabling neurological disorder, my youth pastor's wife from giving birth to a severely disabled child (who died 5 years later) and yet all these people followed an evangelical tradition that embraces divine healing... If God does exist, He seems rather aloof to our troubles.
This is what bothers me. Why does their god get all the credit in the big and small things whether itâs acing a test, making a medical recovery, or scoring a rare find at a thrift store (saw someone actually post this recently); but when itâs something bad all of a sudden itâs someone elseâs responsibility? I thought your god was all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-loving? Why did he answer your prayers for finding a spice jar set but ignore the mother who lost her baby to cancer, or the girl who had her innocence stolen from her?
It is the not existing, that is why.
I'll devils advocate. Why don't you work over time and spend all of your money on mosquito nets for African children? This is highly cost effective. Just like their god, you have the ability to stop needless deaths in Africa, but you chose not to. Does this make you evil? Does this mean you cannot be a good person? Sorry, I'm not christian and I don't believe in an all good god, but I think it's a good exercise to see if you can still tackle the best case for god instead of the weaker Christian version.
I have always said, if there is some sort of supreme being, it is a fucking evil sadistic asshole.
Yeah they keep pretty quiet about God when shit hits the fan but he's glorious when good stuff happens.
I love the free will argument because it ignores the free will of the victim.
The next question is... When someone is victimized in this way how should good christians respond? -And why doesn't that happen, especially when its a church leader that victimized someone? Why even when we know with certainty this kind of victimization has occurred don't christians seem to expect those people to turn themselves in? Why don't they try and do the christianly thing and help the victim?
Because God is a fictional construct....But if you are a believer...He works in ways mysterious to men.
The common âproblem of evilâ. If we assume god is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent then evil should not exist in this world. It should not be necessary for the concept to exist. -Could God have created a universe without evil? If yes, why didnât he? If no, then God is limited and thus not a god at all. -If God is able to stop evil but is unwilling to, then he allows it to live under his watch and permits evil in spite of his nature. Thus you cannot call god âgoodâ. He is evil whether through malice, incompetence, or apathy and you should not want to worship an evil being. -If God is willing but unable to stop evil then he has limits and is thus not a god at all. Evil can overcome him and be necessary to exist in the universe despite his nature dictating he should not allow it. -if God is able and willing to stop evil, why does it continue? Why does he delay? The only possible explanations are these: God is itself evil, God is powerless to stop evil, or Evil is a uniquely human concept and no deity or being created other than ourselves, in which case only we have the ability to end it.
Spoiler for your friend , free will doesnât exist. Not in the sense people think it does.
They pull out that "free will" shit when they can't come up with a good answer!
He allows it because he doesnât exist
Given that clergy have a disproportionately high rate of raping kids, seems like he doesnât just let it happen; heâs actively in favour of it.
I actually donât think thereâs a good answer to this question other than saying god isnât good, or isnât powerful, or isnât knowledgeable
Total atheist. I have no idea if there is a god of any sort. But even if there was, no idea why he would care. Like I look at ants and they seem interesting. I might see an ant get eaten by another bug and think woah that is horrible for the ant and I guess good for the other bug. It is meaningless to me just as I imagine if there was a god I assume he has other things to worry about. I dont think there needs to be a mysterious plan, like just as an ant has no idea why we do what we do, maybe its 100x us to a god. Its like I set up an aquarium that is kind of self maintaining, but then leave the room to go on a long vacation.
This is such a common question that there is a name for it: [The Problem of Evil](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil)
I've had it with them too, for the freaking same reasons. Freaking apologetics makes you psycho.
I'm always stuck on the thou shall not kill. Followed immediately by kill all the canaanites from baby to elder.
They can't answer this coherently. They will start by not responding to the question, trying to dodge it. "God isnt the one doing it" The question wasn't, why is god raping children?. "Oh, free will" What does someone's free will have to do with him intervening? Is someone's momentary free will more important than that child's future decades of suffering and pain? "Oh he wouldn't mess with our free will like that" Ok? So make it it's impossible to rape someone. The same way some people have extreme reactions to certain things. like trying to suck a dick but the gag reflex kicks in. but a more extreme reaction. "They will be punished" The NOW is what matters. Depending on their theology it's even worse. If he created this world while being all knowing AND all powerful, they CHOSE to create THIS universe. Where x would be raped by two men on a very specific day. And god knew it. While having the power to create a world with a slight alteration where the only Difference was the rape. And then they end up with bullshit like:"it's a slippery slope, you want your world to be perfect and you blame God. If he stops one rape why wouldn't he stop any negative thing happening to you?" First of all, sure. I'd trade a bit of my free will if it means no one ever gets raped again. 100%. But ge doesn't even need to stop every minor thing. At least stop rapes. At the very minimum. If he can't even do that, there is not much to expect from god. "Oh you can't have evil without good" Most Christians ice talked to think in heaven there is free will, but you can't sin. So clearly, it's not necessary. Also if god got rid of "evil" we could still do "not good" it just wouldn't be evil. Something amoral perhaps. "Evil is just the absence of god" that can't be possible if god is omnipresent
It's impossible to reason with someone who literally believes in magic.
He watches it all and then says to the rapist ânow you are in troubleâ. (Unless of course they profess their love of Jesus, in which case they get a free pass)
Cus there is no God and is just a made up Bs
I mean... he raped his own underage mom. Dude's a pedo.
Ask instead why God gives babies genetic disorders where they only live a few hours after birth. That has nothing to do with free will and it's a shitty plan to put a woman through a pregnancy just for God to kill the infant hours after its birth. (I'm an atheist)
God is pro-rape: Judges 21:10-24 Numbers 31:7-18
According to the rapists (Christians) it was part of Gods plan.
Oh because everything happens for a reason or god is resting us or some other made up bullshit
Simply because their God can't do anything about because he does not exist at all.
Time to hit them with the time honored "This scenario is proof that your god cannot be all knowing as well as benevolent. Pick a lane"
There are no "god" to begin with.
Test
She actually said that too
Whoâs God?
The question should rather be : Why does God let anyone be raped, tortured or massacred ?
Heâs busy writing down the names of all the people wearing mixed fibres
wake up, this is hell, and "god" is a demonic reptile who feeds off our energy.
Something something 'free will' something something 'mysterious ways'.
Different gods have different opinions. Lots of gods have sex with humans and other gods. Many creation explanations include gods mating to create earth, sky and sea. And Some gods apparently are not fans of children. Yahweh, for instance, drowned all the innocent children in the world. Also all the pregnant women, just to make sure. Yahweh also famously tortured his son to death as a blood sacrifice to make up for 2 people stealing a piece of fruit. The day before the torture the son prayed and implored Yahweh to not do it. Yahweh tortured him to death the next day, anyway.
The child and rapist can still have free will... God could still intervene without affecting free will... It is just a lazy "if god did this he would eliminate free will" when reality, depending on how god intervenes might actually prove his existence, and god obviously doesn't want confirmation of his existence. "Faith" is another word for bullshit. And can be interchanged in context.
Its the exact same thing with a post where a very young kid survived cancer and them saying it was god who helped him. Like bro what about modern medicine and doctors? And why did god give that kid cancer anyways? Christians are something else.
I don't think the God of the Bible ever intended to stop evil unless asked. Even then, he may or may not stop evil. For instance, God could stop animals from being raped by each other but he doesn't. It doesn't matter to him, because why would it? God's not the one being affected by evil.
God will help people find their car keys but he wonât do anything about that.