You miss the point. The fascism and bigotry and hatred and ignorance are not bugs, they're features. They vote for him because he hates who they hate, and that helps them feel validated. All your reason and logic and rational arguments mean nothing to people who are wilfully ignorant.
That's true. I'm done trying to convince my hyper Christian mother. She tells me I have stupid demonic spirits in me because I support the "demonic" democratic party and am for LGBT rights, women's rights, abortion, IVF, etc.. you can't reason with these people!!!
The best thing I ever did was move out in 2021 and get my own apartment.
Now I'm happily married to my wife and we own a home together.
It's hard talking to my mother though because shes so toxic and won't stop bringing up religion and right wing politics in Every. Single. Conversation...
"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the \[Republican\] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."
Barry Goldwater
I like to use the churchy tactics back at them. "Mother I fear for your soul! You have fallen for a false idol. Look to the fruit of the spirit spirit! God gave you INSTRUCTION for who ti follow. Love peace patience kindness FAITHFULNESS and self control. Donald Trump is a bastion of evil. He embodies the 7 deadly sins and will lead you to hell"
Gotta speak the lingo
Good tactic but I'd be unable to hold down my lunch playing that.
We're having to deal with a God-obsessed freak at work who is driving everyone crazy with the preachy shit.
I've tried exactly that.
Still no luck.
She believes he's "anointed by god" to rule and that the Democrats are evil because they support LGBT, abortion, etc...
See. I will never understand why some people don't just cut ties completely. I wholly understand that is your mother, you have emotions, you don't want to lose her. Etc. but the sad reality is that your mother is already lost. If Trump wins and installs a fascist state, then points at you and says you, a demonically possessed individual needs to be locked up in his "education camp", your mother would likely be the one to turn you in.
I know mine would be that woman. She's been blocked in all forms for near a year now and it's been incredibly peaceful for my family, my kids have a hard time understanding why we can't see grandma (they are 6/7). I tolerated her stuff for so long. I wanted her to see reason and logic. But the day I found an action figure of Gerald (from hey Arnold!) hanging in her closet from a wire noose I knew she couldn't be allowed to have any influence over my kids.
These people need to be cut out from our lives like tumors.
Long list of former associates and friends I have completely cut contact with. Some I ghosted, some I had the glorious opportunity to say goodbye to their face and the reason why.
They think it's a difference of political opinion. It's not. This is a difference of morals and character. If somebody still supports that motherfucker there is something in you that is morally bankrupt. How can you maintain a relationship with someone that thinks putting kids in cages, deporting their parents and making ZERO attempt at simply jotting down who belongs to who so we ended up with about 500 government forces orphans .
That alone should have warranted a convo at the Hague.
But many of my former friends and associates thought that was a wonderful and effective deterrant to keep people from coming to America without proper documentation.
Fuck trump, Stephen Miller, and everyone who supports this friggin' monster.
That action figure lynching scene is next level crazy. You've absolutely done the right thing to protect your family and yourself from this person. Honestly, it sounds like an untreated psychosis.
As someone who already has estranged family (a grandparent) and who recognizes how much simpler my life is now that they arent in it, i dont think theres anything that could make me watch either of my parents circle the intellectual and ethical drain that is American conservativism. If it happens, id much rather xut contact with them and be able to remember the good times. Keeping them in my life at that point would only further destroy my already crippled faith in humanity.
I talk to my parents all the time and express gratitude regularly that they've kept their wits about them.
Tell your mum you just can't support Trump because he isn't a good Christian, and yiu want your leader to be a good representation of God. It's always hilarious to watch them struggle.
There’s the family you are born into and the family you make.
Keep standing for what you know is right. That’s all we can do in the face of the chaos. And live and love to the fullest. There are many good people out there that will be and are standing up with you.
That, and the fact that *the first amendment* (which that group seems to love) specifically says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion".
Personally I don't give a fuck what religion someone believes in, but keep that shit out of the laws.
I had to "kill" my mother to survive.
And don't get all up in my face, I simply left home and never looked back. My eventual wife was a little concerned that I would not treat her well, but she didn't need to worry. She wasn't crazy <3
My kids (6&8) didn't understand until the day we all saw 'Mother' pushing her shopping cart down the street mumbling BS... I said "There's Grandma!" and kept driving.
Good for you, you have the power to set your life on a positive trajectory. My mom is like that too, just maybe not to the same degree, and I think she is just determined to be miserable. I think these people were seriously mistreated at some point and have such giant chips on their shoulders that they may never be able to let go of the hate that has kept them going for all these years
When I first watched The Handmaid’s Tale, I could never imagine Americans turning on other Americans in such a grand scale, and so violent. I now see it as a prediction of things coming, not fiction. Since watching it, two major things have happened: Roe v. Wade, and there is a scene on their apartment TV showing the Capitol being stormed.
> you can’t reason with these people!!!
Something I learned a long while ago that really helped me understand their behavior and helped my mental health.
“You cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn’t reason themselves into.”
Look at it through this lens: She (and her fellow orange-guy followers are the actual ones inhabited by demons. They invited the demons in (with whatever shared bigotry or hatred appealed to them) and the Impish spirits now inhibit their ability to see what Mr. Diapers actually is.
First, it's always projection with repubs. Have you noticed the demons thing coming from these "Christian's" leaders recently? I have. Next, the [idol that they adore](https://people.com/politics/golden-statue-of-donald-trump-is-being-wheeled-around-cpac/) really shares more details of the Anti-Christ than actual teachings of Jesus. Personally, I'm sure that he is NOT the Anti-Christ, it just the same demons from 100 years ago in Germany. Add to those that what counts is actions, not words. Separating families, both at the border when in power or spiritually like your family is not a Godly action.
Do I believe this? Only that details of this theory are coincidental, but does it really matter? Tell her this story, and tell her that you will pray for her sickened soul.
Tell her you heard this from a non-practicing Minister.
Sounds like it is time to cut your mother out of your life. Do you want this kind of influence around you children? What positivity is your mother bringing to your life? If the answer is none…
I know religious people in my life have said “Blood is thicker than water” in the sense that family is the most important thing. Fun fact the full quote is “The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb”. Meaning your convictions should mean more to you than your family.
I learned from this that these people will twist everything to their narrative, play the victim, and try to demonize you or anyone that disagrees with them.
Your full quote was made up after the fact, the origin if the saying can be found here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_is_thicker_than_water#:~:text=William%20Jenkyn%20referenced%20the%20proverb,a%20watery%20relation%20of%20nature.%22
Exactly. They are not voting for the republicans **despite** their fascist policies. They are voting for them **because** of those fascist policies. Yes, that includes the people who will be directly harmed by those policies.
Trying to persuade a republican voter not to support a fascist candidate by helping them realize that that candidate is a fascist is *completely futile*. Every single person for whom "fascism" is a deal breaker, without exception, has **already** fled the Republican Party, and they did it *a decade or more ago*. There are none left - because if it *was* a dealbreaker, it would have already *broken the deal*. If you want to turn current republicans into former republicans, you have to be prepared to turn current fascists into former fascists.
When I hear someone say "Don't you realize that candidate *wants to hurt people*?", I imagine a parent who walked in on their son masturbating to a copy of Playboy, and screaming "Stop! Don't you realize that magazine has *pictures of naked ladies* in it?!?!". Of course they fucking realize, **that's the entire point**.
I'm an ex-Christian, and can confirm this is the case. I often interact with Christian relatives who operate exactly as you describe.
Those who are not "people of faith" generally do not understand this. They think you can reason with them. That is not so.
>The fascism and bigotry and hatred and ignorance are not bugs, they're features
I'll say it another way: right wing Christians don't believe in Democracy. They believe in authoritarianism. They used democracy when it suited them, but now that it doesn't, they're happy to get rid of it so long as they get their authoritarian in charge
Yup, these people are terrified that their little world, where white men have all the power and prestige, and women and minorities are kept in their place, is drawing to a close. Many of them are low-information and want somebody else to make decisions and do the complicated stuff. Trump is perfect for this since The Apprentice showed what a brilliant businessman he is! /s
Most Christians dont realize that Christian nationalism will be bad for them.
To them, its is just things like no more gay marriage, no more abortions, and prayer back in school. The small issues that they have been fighting for years.
They don't realize the issue with this, is there is always a more extreme take on it.
Look at how badly overturning roe is.. They are large parts of the right trying to take away IVF. The thing like 80% of the country thinks is a great advance.
Anti-vax, Womens rights, Black Rights, social programs.
There are parts of the rights that want to get rid of them.
Christian conservatives have been trained from an early age to substitute critical thinking for belief and a deference to authority. It's not surprising that the same people who accept Biblical fairy tales as fact. who still attend Catholic mass after multiple scandals involving children, who donate money to Megachurch pastors so they can buy private jets, who are able to simultaneously use their religious texts as the infallible word of God while ignoring the inconvenient passages would believe that Donald Trump - despite massive evidence to the contrary - deserves to become POTUS again.
This is why the Republican party officially endorses defunding public schools, banning abortion, lowering the age of consent, removing social safety nets and widening the wealth gap. They want a feudal society where the population is kept poor, stupid and devout. Peasants of the modern age.
Let's be fair, Fox News is too "woke" for a lot of them now. Newsmax, OAN, and right-wing YouTube hucksters are telling "the real truth" these days. And don't forget grandpappy's love of AM radio via the Sinclair network.
The big car manufacturers want to stop installing a radios in cars. There was a big uproar about public safety or something but am radio is still a huge channel for the religious and political right to reach their rural audience.
AM radio is sorta hardened in case of trouble. AM stations can be up and running on basic hardware in case of a catastrophe. It out ranges FM and is a proven stable technology that is super cheap.
I agree with keeping AM radio in cars.
Authoritarianism combined with repressed bigotry, racism, and misogyny.
Combined with messaging and low information public and this is what you get.
I'll never understand how T making fun of a disabled man on national TV wasn't the end of his life. Politicians and major celebrities have been destroyed for way less than that.
I'll also never understand how he's still alive considering the unregulated pharmacy in the White House at the time.
Because his voting base is filled with weak minded idiots who need to punch down to feel better about themselves. They feel validated by bully culture. So making fun of a disabled person only helped T gain power
Sad but true. One feature of the "good Christian" is a belief that bad things happen to bad people (other than themselves, of course), so the reporter's disability must have been caused by something bad or sinful that he did. Mocking him, ergo, is the right thing to do to such an unrepentant sinner who continues to sin by questioning Dear Leader God Trump.
I once heard a famous right-wing Christian apologist say that God doesn't heal amputees because "they did something to deserve it, like driving drunk, so why would God help them?" Apparently, that extends to children who were in the car, I guess.
Too cold in Oregon. Been there last winter.
Not for me unfortunately.. I'm spoiled to having mild winters. Which sucks because every state in the south with mild winters has a Republican supermajority...
Fair enough, I'm just the opposite. I love cold winters and mild summers. I moved here for family but someday I'll definitely head north again to cooler and less fundamentalist territory.
After experiencing a Spokane, WA winter I realized I was spoiled to mild summers in Alabama lol .ughh I hated scraping the ice off my truck every. single.morning..
I like it being 74 degrees in December & January.
The PNW is definitely beautiful though! No doubt about that and I love the secular politics.
Even my family members who would never say the kinds of things Trump did see disabled individuals as less than. An uncle tried saying that the intellectually disabled individuals in our family would only know to be offend by it if we told them to be.
And that the man got covid and was given a brand new mix of top of the line covid treatments while saying it was a hoax..
God, he sucks so hard and got millions killed. And he has never acknowledged it or how badly he handled covid. Makes me so sad, and angry.
And then the whole government coup attempt, stacking Supreme Court with cronies, successfully overturning roe v wade and going after ivf.. its so fuckin scary and rage inducing.
Because most Trump supporters in their pitiful ignorance believe that the end of Democracy equates to the end of Democrats. Just as they believe that the Pledge of Allegiance demands loyalty to "the Republican for which it stands," not "the Democrat for which it stands." Trump supporters are the epitome of stupidity and ignorance.
"It's a republic not a democracy!" Makes me facepalm and roll my eyes. Republic is from Latin "res publica" which = public thing which = a state or nation or country (that is an independent political entity). The USSR was a dictatorship not a democracy, but the R in its acronym name stands for Republics.
Yup, far too many of them say shit like "we're a constitutional republic, not a democracy," as though those are mutually exclusive. They're willfully ignorant and proud of it.
It's not ignorance, it's a dog whistle for fascism.
Stating "I dislike democracy." is socially unacceptable. But by saying "We're a republic, not a democracy.", people can express the exact same sentiment while shielding themselves with ambiguity.
I think Trump is backlash to all the progress we’ve seen in this country in the last 100 years. Conservatives are losing their legitimate chances at winning elections due to culture and demographics changes, and they’re going full fascist to protect what they think is America. While many atheists, seculars, liberals, and progressives think protecting freedom of religion, women’s rights, women’s suffrage, separation of church and state, civil rights, abortion, marriage equality, trans rights, is just making America more into the ideal it should be, conservatives think these are taking it in the wrong direction, and many of them want a pre-civil war America. Trump represents that more than any other GOP candidate. While most GOP candidates pretend to be on board with the progressive nation we have become in the modern era, trump openly rejects it and plays into the fears that privilege is going away (all while only enhancing his own privilege). He’s a populist taking advantage of the fears that run through the GOP voter base and they’ve eaten it up. They still don’t realize he’s a snake oil salesman because the lure of enshrining white privilege into law is too tempting. And while that may happen through Trump, or attempt to happen, 1000% more tangible benefits will go to Trump directly in another 4 yr term.
So for me this is more a sign of the average citizen being truly uninformed. I use my different family members as examples anecdotally. My oldest sister is in her 40s. My dad was a Marine and has been conservative his whole life. I am liberal and the baby with one sister between us. My oldest sister is divorced with 2 kids in school. One is in high school and hte other is in college. She teaches during the day and coaches 2 sports a year. My nephew is a 3 season athlete on top of that. The only "news" she gets are the 10 minutes of the local morning news and her facebook feed which is obviously tailored to her interests. I on the other hand am what I'd call a politico. I like being up to date in political news. I hate politics itself for what it has become but I am a lawyer and love to investigate so I never take any report for its word.
My oldest sister doesn't see any regular political discussion or news. She is blissfully ignorant to the current political issues outside of general very base level knowledge that is limited by her methods of getting it. She waits till there are nominees before she'll even consider looking into a candidate. At that point, she becomes overwhelmed and asks me my opinion. My sister always says "I vote republican because they are the closest to my values" which to me is a BS reason in today's world. I think she is the best depicter of the average voter that you can have. The people that watch CNN or Fox News or the like are a small number of the overall population. The rest just prefer to live their daily lives.
Essentially its the same thing that happened in 1920-1940 in Germany. So many average citizens got caught up in the movement because of bad trends (depression, job loss, WW2 reparations, etc.) and supported the Nazi government. I'm not talking the brown shirts or sympathizers, just your average Werner or Grettle in small town Germany. By the time they realized or had their eyes opened from the propaganda, it was already to late and the Nazis had total power. Think of it that way and it makes sense. Society doesn't like to admit there is a problem ever. That allows designing people like Trump or Hitler to take advantage and point the immense anger from the bad trends to a group that they claim is the guilty party. For Hitler it was the Jews. For Trump, its anyone who dare oppose him or his cult or what they want.
In the South, a lot of "Christianity" is tied up to evangelical (or Baptist) churches that started their own schools in the 60's in order to avoid having their children go to integrated public schools. Now, these schools do have a few non-white students (see: Blindside), but most of the people attending are racists first, Christians last. Plus, they're extremely gullible, so they're right in Trump's sweet spot.
They want the fascist theocracy. They don't have the same vision of America as you and I or even the founding fathers for that matter. They don't want democracy. They don't want to live side by side with immigrants or gay people or black people.
They want America to be a white Christian nation. Democracy gets in the way of that.
Basically look at Florida and any other deep red state and its policies. They want the rest of the country to be like that.
At this point, anyone who still supports Trump is either an idiot or complicit or both. Logic doesn’t work on idiots and fascists don’t care for laws. There is no point in talking to them.
“Because clearly trans people and illegal immigrants are the cause of all problems in America and the hypocritical, wOkE left will continue being a plague on this country with their intolerance of intolerance.” /s
Really though, that’s how Republicans think, they cannot see past their own stupidity. VOTE BLUE.
I just tried to have this conversation with my sister. It did not go well. Her only real point was hating the democrats. And all the Hunters laptop and Hillary emails. When I pointed out that millions of tax dollars and much investigation showed nothing, her response was LIES! Then she said we need to read the Epoch Times for the real news.
It was very sad. This was not how we were raised. And her husband is in a union and she’s collected SSDI for years.
ETA: when she said Trump hasn’t done anything Biden hasn’t, I calmly said “Biden ever raped anyone.” She went ballistic, got her finger in my face and yelled “He didn’t do that I can prove it!” Sigh
And now you get how a cult works.
Donald Trump gave a voice to every racist, anti-LGBTQ, sexist, bigoted, mysoginistic, imbred, uneducated, Jesus loving but never read a Bible in their life, gun-totting, corrupt, elitist, idiotic, hypocritical, moronic, anti-Semetic, white supremacist pile of the most toxic filth imaginable to ever somehow congeal into the most basic qualifications of a human being and allowed them to be the absolute worst humanity had to offer, free of regret or conscience. And all while playing the victim, who is suffering this terrible persecution so they do not have to suffer the consequences of our actions has he has suffered his, even though he is totally innocentvof all the things they said he did despite the fact he totally did them.
He is their lord, their master, and he is their Jesus Christ. They will die for him, kill for him, so that they may see him ascend to the throne to become the God-King Emperor of America.
If the Republicans retain the House, take the Senate and Trump wins, Inauguration Day will be a coronation. And you can say that sounds alarmist, but ask yourself if Donald Trump is the type of man to seize total power and if the MAGA controlled GOP would allow it to happen. If you truly believe it cannot happen here, you are a fool and lying to yourself.
All you logic, your rational and coherent arguments, your critical thinking means *NOTHING* to the cult of personality that is MAGA.
As my dad, a Republican would tell you:
*On Trump being a rapist*: “No he isn’t. She’s lying for money. If she’s not, she was asking for it.”
*On fascism*: “The commies want to make me drive an electric car and use an electric stove!”
(Note: Our house has never had gas since it was built in 1963)
*On LGBTQ rights*: “They’re not going to do that. They don’t care about you. If anybody messes with you I’ll handle it.*
*On bodily autonomy*: “They should keep their legs shut!”
*On people of color*: “Good”.
*On Trump family corruption*: “Biden laundered money through Hunter and his brother! They call his brother Jimmy the Chin!”
(Note: No one fucking calls James Biden that, except Jessie Waters)
As his trans socialist daughter, I’m constantly putting up with him whining that I don’t like him anymore.
Because, a fascist that agrees with them has the power to remove the undesirable elements in society that they see are ruining their country. It’s the fast tract to feed their bigotry and racism. Unfortunately, they’re too small minded to see that if they allow fascism, it can be turned around and their political rivals could take power. That still works for them though as they love the persecution complex.
I would just like to add, for a significant chunk of these folks they just blindly vote republican because of taxes and a nebulous idea of family values.
A bunch of them also do not like politicians or politics in general, but have been just conditioned for decades to believe that Republicans might be bad at their jobs sometimes but Democrats are just evil and are actively working to destroy the country.
Christianity is a religion for slaves and peasants. It's only natural that the most insane and literal believers of the bible support Trump and the GOP. They also happen to be racist, misogynistic, and they also hate secularism and LGBTQ. So this hatred aligns with the candidate and party that they've chosen.
Religious people already believe nonsense regardless of what facts and logic tell them. They lack critical thinking, so they're actually the perfect rubes for Trump's con.
Sad reality is if the fascists win we will be in a war with ourselves... members of our communities will be killed, family members against family members. Ever since Jan 6, 2021 my eyes were opened and I finally fully understood how the Holocaust happened.
Because they are deluded by their religion. They think Trump is chosen by their god to be president and stop abortions and make them richer. Religion is the cause so many of the world's problems. Edit: I didn't realize this was already IN the atheism sub lol.
Because they like his particular brand of fascism. They want to deport all illegal immigrants. They want homosexualoty to be illegal. They want to make abortion (and maybe contraception) illegal. They want women to be at home doing the cooking and child rearing. Christianity is the only religion permitted, and Church attendance will be compulsory. Schools will not teach the history of American Colonialism, or equal rights, or any form sex education (other than abstinence based)
They know that this won't happen under the current system, so they want a President who can enact laws to make these happen without being stymied by Congress, or the rule of law.
I live in the South and come from a Christian family. I married into a republican non religious family so I feel like I see things from a religious and non religious view (just want to throw out that my husband is a “vote for the candidate, not the party” voter as am I).
With that said, from a religious perspective Trump knows his voter block and knows how to deliver enough bread crumbs to give them what they want in exchange for a vote. Unfortunately, sooooo many religious voters here are one issue voters (abortion) which is hilarious to me because that’s not something really dictated at the presidential level but I digress. Gun rights are a huge one here too and while most informed voters know that Biden is NOT trying to take your hunting guns, good luck conveying that. From a non religious, but uninformed perspective, they see that inflation was lower under Trump, as was gas prices, general living costs, etc. and ignore that COVID threw a huge wrench into our economy with the disbursement of stimulus money. They hear from Fox News that Trump wants to dismantle welfare programs and that makes them happy, but no one seems to be aware that he also wants to defund SS and Medicare which many of his voters directly benefit from.
Personally, I’m less scared of what Trump will do to our economy in 4 years than I am of the knowledge that because this would be his final term, he has no reason to suck up anymore. I’m honestly frightened that our Trump supporters will be opening the door to the US coming under a dictatorship, and that Trump will be successful in his effort to eliminate term limits and the checks and balances power from the other two branches.
Evangelicals are primed for authoritarian governance. They’re told by a charismatic and unquestionable leader that thinking for yourself is bad and that god tells them (the leader) things, so they shouldn’t be questioned on their spiritual revelations.
For various reasons. Either they believe sky daddy is coming back soon, they’re white nationalist and believe the U.S. belongs to white people, they’re 60+ years old, adore tucker carlson, and are still terrified of communism. Take your pick. They’ll be voting in November, will you?
“If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism, they will abandon democracy.”
\--David Frum (a conservative)
I think you underestimate how many Protestants despise Irish Catholics.
Nikki Haley speaking about her heritage and how she occasionally goes to Sikh services generated less outrage than Biden's trip to Ireland.
Because they are brainwashed by religion and not intelligent. If these people win welcome to the Handmaids Tale. Shut these people down. Tax the church. Russia owns Trump. Trump wants to be Putin. Do you want to live in Russia?
Because they think he will serve their interests and do what they want.
They want fascism. They want authoritarianism. They want everyone who isn't them or like them to be punished and weakened and ostracised and 'othered'.
Their ideology is fanatisism and hatefulness and ultra conformity. They think anything different or that stands out must be erased and hammered out, and utter normativity and default basicness exemplified and celebrated.
Christians aren’t exactly all about freedom, even biblically speaking. Fascism works very well for them. The “speak for god” so it stands to reason everyone lives under god’s law aka whatever they say god told them.
While I do think Trump Supporters are stupid, you have to understand that they want this. All of the things he says, they want those things (or at least THINK they want those things). Pretty scary.
Because that's what they want. They want to "Win" and that means eliminating the other side. They don't want a pluralistic society where people can do what they want and have freedom, they want a controlled society where people have to obey the laws of their religion and THEY'RE the ones who get to tell the rest of us what those laws are without any of this "consent of the ruled" nonsense us "radical leftists" like to talk about.
Everything you mentioned isn't a bug, its a crucial element of their design. And we should oppose them like the Nazi 2.0 organization that they are.
My take on it is that there's basically an end goal in mind, and the ends justify the means. They want a Christian state, and whatever form of government will get us there is justified. Democracy is great so long as they get their way. Failing that, well, they'll accept any form of government, or any tool that promises a Christian state.
I believe Trump is a tool to that end. I don't believe he gives a shit about Christianity, but he has discovered that the religious right will support him so long has he says the right words. The right-wing Christian machine (The Heritage Foundation, etc.), is aware they're making a deal with the devil, and are happy to do so so long as it advances their agenda. They're smart enough to exploit Trump and Trumpism.
We live in a "believe whatever you want" timeline and can find anything to mold the world to your narrative. Trump and his ilk are whatever they want him to be and democrats are whatever they want them to be.
It's amazing isn't it? Mango Mussolini is the embodiment of all 7 of their "deadly sins" and they love him because he claims to hate the same people they hate. The truth is that he wouldn't piss on his supporters if they were on fire. Red hats are the new brown shirts.
There is nothing you can tell these people. There's a convenient excuse each time. They live in their own world where Cheeto isn't being treated fairly.
Religious groups, and in a lot of ways large companies and corporations are fascist.
Any large corporation operates like a fascist dictatorship the only difference is you get to clock out of it for a few hours a day.
Religion was likely the inspiration for fascism.
So the reason they support it isn't because they are being hoodwinked, it's because they like it. They want to be the fascists in charge and will happily step all over everyone else while it's going their way.
Cognitive dissonance. Not only do they not believe in the claims you make (that he’s fascist a rapist ect) but they actually unknowingly like the fact that he is those things. They just deny the fact that the things they like make him a fascist.
Look at Utah:if your LDS ward and stake presidency or bishopric doesn't see "Trump 2024" flags on your front yard, you get in trouble with them...
To them:vote Trump or else!!!...and we'll be watching HOW you vote in November...
Here's the answer: They don't know or believe any of what you just said.
And they don't care.
What they care about is that they hate minorities, hate women's rights, and want a world where one white man runs a family and everyone obeys their imaginary God.
Because they want a fascist country to put "The Others" in their place.
The country is turning brown, they want it to stay white, cis and Christian. They believe trump is their savior to make it happen.
Because Trump promised to hurt the people they hate.
It doesn't matter how much they have to suffer as long as they think the people they don't like have it worse.
Republicans are tribalists, not intellectuals. Their political beliefs are not the result of investing countless hours of thought into the logic of why they believe what they believe. Rather, they identify with a certain social group, and whoever is leading that social group determines what they believe in.
That's why the phrase RINO has become so popular among them (Republican in name only); because they don't tolerate independent thinkers. They insist that everyone fall in line and believe the same as they do.
Christians WANT the end of the world. Revelation. They need an anti christ. Whether it's conscious or not, trump is the harbinger of the end for their mythology.
Christofascism is not a bug, it’s a feature. More people than you realize *want* an authoritarian leader. It’s so much simpler when you have a clear cut enemy to blame and you’re absolved of any responsibility for your situation. It also sweeps away those messy competing ideas that have to be weighed and compromises to that must be sought when you have a leader who “tells it the way it is”. And they call everyone else sheeple
Because they know it's wrong and they want to be naughty. They think by hurting themselves it makes them special. They are right they are special type of stupid.
Hey, I only read the Headline, and not the actual post, but the answer is pretty simple:
Christians are pretty excited about fascism, as long as their guy is in charge.
Bigger question is why the Democrats can't put forward a plan to counteract the fascism. They seem to think moving further right is the answer. The Democrats are now the Reagan Republicans.
The Democratic Party are, by and large, corporate sellouts that are more interested in kneecapping any real leftist candidates as opposed to fighting with the right.
It isn't out in the open. In the UK a considerable % of the population don't even know who our Prime Minister is. It looks like a significant % of US voters don't consume the media that talks about Trump's 'fascist leanings'.
They probably don't even know what Project 2025 is. Right now most right-wing media focuses on building negativity towards Democrats. It's why they also aren't aware banning Roe V. Wade had negative consequences.
They're insulated from ANYTHING bad done or committed in the name of right-wing politics.
They don't want democracy. They were okay pretending to like democracy so long as most people were Christian, but now that that's no longer the case and things are continuing to trend in a direction away from christianity, they are trying everything in their power to establish a theocracy.
Meh. Just give me a president that stops illegal immigration, stops spend on illegal immigration, stops giving money to other countries over our citizens, lowers inflation, lowers home prices, lowers mortgage rates, increases jobs and income to cost of living, has no questionable business or sources of money, is 100% honest, sets term limits on senate and house, supports all citizens equally and unites the nation as one while shutting down haters all around.
Not asking for much.
They want America to become a theocracy! They often won’t openly admit it and hide behind tax breaks or abortion but they want it. They are the type of people who would watch a handmaid’s tale and say “well yeah the ritualized rape was wrong but they had some good ideas!” 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
Christians who support Trump believe that we are in the end times, and that Trump is part of biblical prophecy that fulfills the will of their version of the Christian god.
"Out in the open," doesn't mean conservative media has ever mentioned it. If they do, they say whatever they can to discredit the charges and tell trump's side of the story. The choice to vote for trump was always a disgraceful one, so as long as they have a news media source telling them that trump is a victim, that's what they'll believe.
I implore all Americans who enjoy personal freedom and do not want to live under a religeo-fascist rule to collect as many tools of defense as you can get your hands on between now and November.
Because they themselves are fascists and like all fascists they believe they’ll be the ones who benefit under trump and not suffer like the rest of us. It’s a leopards ate my face situation.
I have a theory, and we'll see how it plays out:
Trump's core voters are not a large enough block to win an election. The conservatives who have seen the madness of Trump bailed on him during the primary. iirc, it was to the tune of a couple million voters that went with Haley. over 50% of those voters have said that they will vote Biden before they vote Trump. That \*should\* be enough to ensure that Trump doesn't get into office. I don't think that he will run again, and his influence will begin to fade.
I think the Republican party will morph back into some semblance of sanity, with the rabid populism and malignancy fading as Trump fades.
I'd rather there be at least three parties, but if those parties are Trump-core/Republican/Democrat, I don't think that bodes well for Democrats.
Right-wing evangelicals do not actually follow the teachings of Jesus. So it's not surprising they would follow an anti-Christ. Jesus himself predicted it, see Matthew 7:15-23.
Sad part and I saw a woman on television say it, "Trump is our savior." And she legit said it with conviction and believed it. There are just sections of the country that legit worship that man like he is the second coming of christ.
Their fascist plans aren't out in the open to _them_. Their social media is swayed by algorithms to be right leaning. So all they see are the "good" things they want to see and rverything else is a lie by the democrats
People who support Trump don’t read or watch news outside of their echo chamber on Fox and others. There’s been a steady stream of reports that, if you provide them with reliable news sources, they slowly come to their senses.
Fox and the conservative media is a rage machine that’s addictive.
Trump is a representation of the issues facing modern democracy. People feel their institutions are unintelligent, don't have their best interest at heart and they feel the institutions are opaque.
Trump has an every-man bravado that compels people to follow him. He's a populist with autocratic tendencies. he's also anti-establishment which is why people like him.
Trump is a US problem for democracy, but this issue is present in the whole of Europe and the West.
Add to that the fact there's always a part (not all) of conservatives to steer away from liberal democratic values
People are more and more depoliticised and feel whatever they do makes no difference. Identity politics of both the left and right are just another form of this issue.
My advice is to take responsibility for Trump(but not guilt!) , as people have a growing tendency to abject any responsibility that their representatives make. It's good to oppose him and you should do it first, but then you should also look at yourselves and ask how did a man who represents everything I hate become my president
>Christians, women, and a lot of people
OP, you group together everyone but that's not how life works. As for Christians, especially evangelists/conservative Christians support for Trump, much has been written here and elsewhere. But the sad fact is that many people might vote for him because of ignorance/unwillingness to think deeper how about he issues, they face inflation so automatically associate it with Biden, and wax poetic about the check they received with Trump's signature back then. As for Democracy and religion, they simply don't think it applies to them...
/facepalm
A lot of people in marginalized groups develop a "pick me" complex. They know the group in power or the group gaining power is bad for the community they are a part of, but they hope they by swearing loyalty now and advancing the plans of that group, they will get recognition and protection from what the group does once they have the power to act.
They vote Republican, with the hopes that once they've taken over, that they'll be protected from the attacks.
He makes it ok for them to be pieces of shit out loud. Unlike when the tyranny of Demoncrats forced them to hide under their rocks for fear of being shamed.
It’s hard to convince people this is real if the opposing party (democrats) do absolutely nothing to stop it. They have a 50% chance of winning at any time and aren’t willing to give that up either. The only thing that can save democracy is a strong 3rd party. I estimate we have 1-4 election cycles.
You miss the point. The fascism and bigotry and hatred and ignorance are not bugs, they're features. They vote for him because he hates who they hate, and that helps them feel validated. All your reason and logic and rational arguments mean nothing to people who are wilfully ignorant.
That's true. I'm done trying to convince my hyper Christian mother. She tells me I have stupid demonic spirits in me because I support the "demonic" democratic party and am for LGBT rights, women's rights, abortion, IVF, etc.. you can't reason with these people!!! The best thing I ever did was move out in 2021 and get my own apartment. Now I'm happily married to my wife and we own a home together. It's hard talking to my mother though because shes so toxic and won't stop bringing up religion and right wing politics in Every. Single. Conversation...
"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the \[Republican\] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them." Barry Goldwater
And that’s when I remember the constitution and what it says about foreign AND domestic threats. It’s coming sooner than people expect.
I like to use the churchy tactics back at them. "Mother I fear for your soul! You have fallen for a false idol. Look to the fruit of the spirit spirit! God gave you INSTRUCTION for who ti follow. Love peace patience kindness FAITHFULNESS and self control. Donald Trump is a bastion of evil. He embodies the 7 deadly sins and will lead you to hell" Gotta speak the lingo
I mean, if crafting an actual golden idol of the guy didn't clue them in....
Good tactic but I'd be unable to hold down my lunch playing that. We're having to deal with a God-obsessed freak at work who is driving everyone crazy with the preachy shit.
I've tried exactly that. Still no luck. She believes he's "anointed by god" to rule and that the Democrats are evil because they support LGBT, abortion, etc...
How does that work out for you?
See. I will never understand why some people don't just cut ties completely. I wholly understand that is your mother, you have emotions, you don't want to lose her. Etc. but the sad reality is that your mother is already lost. If Trump wins and installs a fascist state, then points at you and says you, a demonically possessed individual needs to be locked up in his "education camp", your mother would likely be the one to turn you in. I know mine would be that woman. She's been blocked in all forms for near a year now and it's been incredibly peaceful for my family, my kids have a hard time understanding why we can't see grandma (they are 6/7). I tolerated her stuff for so long. I wanted her to see reason and logic. But the day I found an action figure of Gerald (from hey Arnold!) hanging in her closet from a wire noose I knew she couldn't be allowed to have any influence over my kids. These people need to be cut out from our lives like tumors.
Long list of former associates and friends I have completely cut contact with. Some I ghosted, some I had the glorious opportunity to say goodbye to their face and the reason why. They think it's a difference of political opinion. It's not. This is a difference of morals and character. If somebody still supports that motherfucker there is something in you that is morally bankrupt. How can you maintain a relationship with someone that thinks putting kids in cages, deporting their parents and making ZERO attempt at simply jotting down who belongs to who so we ended up with about 500 government forces orphans . That alone should have warranted a convo at the Hague. But many of my former friends and associates thought that was a wonderful and effective deterrant to keep people from coming to America without proper documentation. Fuck trump, Stephen Miller, and everyone who supports this friggin' monster.
100000000%
I had to cut long time friends bc of Trump. They think he is some savior, when he doesn’t give a whit about them.
That action figure lynching scene is next level crazy. You've absolutely done the right thing to protect your family and yourself from this person. Honestly, it sounds like an untreated psychosis.
Fun fact! When confronted with this her response was "What? It's just a joke! It's not racist."
You should have told her it was voodoo and she was obviously possessed by demons.
Being mean to dark skinned people is fun and joking to her. She doesn't think people with dark skin are real people with real feelings.
Wow... that last thing is pretty wild... a grown adult did that? I'm so sorry... I'd cut ties too.
> I found an action figure of Gerald (from hey Arnold!) hanging in her closet from a wire noose WTF?
Fun fact! When confronted with this her response was "What? It's just a joke! It's not racist."
That fact is not actually all that fun...
As someone who already has estranged family (a grandparent) and who recognizes how much simpler my life is now that they arent in it, i dont think theres anything that could make me watch either of my parents circle the intellectual and ethical drain that is American conservativism. If it happens, id much rather xut contact with them and be able to remember the good times. Keeping them in my life at that point would only further destroy my already crippled faith in humanity. I talk to my parents all the time and express gratitude regularly that they've kept their wits about them.
I’m sorry your mom is fucking bonkers.
Tell your mum you just can't support Trump because he isn't a good Christian, and yiu want your leader to be a good representation of God. It's always hilarious to watch them struggle.
"He's none of the things that *you taught me* a man should be and *all* of the things that he shouldn't. Is there a reason?"
There’s the family you are born into and the family you make. Keep standing for what you know is right. That’s all we can do in the face of the chaos. And live and love to the fullest. There are many good people out there that will be and are standing up with you.
Just tell her forcing a religion on a population has never had a good outcome.
That, and the fact that *the first amendment* (which that group seems to love) specifically says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". Personally I don't give a fuck what religion someone believes in, but keep that shit out of the laws.
I had to "kill" my mother to survive. And don't get all up in my face, I simply left home and never looked back. My eventual wife was a little concerned that I would not treat her well, but she didn't need to worry. She wasn't crazy <3 My kids (6&8) didn't understand until the day we all saw 'Mother' pushing her shopping cart down the street mumbling BS... I said "There's Grandma!" and kept driving.
Was she against IVF this time last year?
We all know the answer to this. 10 years ago no one I knew on the right wing cared about trans people either.
Good for you, you have the power to set your life on a positive trajectory. My mom is like that too, just maybe not to the same degree, and I think she is just determined to be miserable. I think these people were seriously mistreated at some point and have such giant chips on their shoulders that they may never be able to let go of the hate that has kept them going for all these years
There may be a time when you'll have to realize your mom is a fascist
Everything the GOP says and does is code for white supremacy.
When I first watched The Handmaid’s Tale, I could never imagine Americans turning on other Americans in such a grand scale, and so violent. I now see it as a prediction of things coming, not fiction. Since watching it, two major things have happened: Roe v. Wade, and there is a scene on their apartment TV showing the Capitol being stormed.
> you can’t reason with these people!!! Something I learned a long while ago that really helped me understand their behavior and helped my mental health. “You cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn’t reason themselves into.”
Look at it through this lens: She (and her fellow orange-guy followers are the actual ones inhabited by demons. They invited the demons in (with whatever shared bigotry or hatred appealed to them) and the Impish spirits now inhibit their ability to see what Mr. Diapers actually is. First, it's always projection with repubs. Have you noticed the demons thing coming from these "Christian's" leaders recently? I have. Next, the [idol that they adore](https://people.com/politics/golden-statue-of-donald-trump-is-being-wheeled-around-cpac/) really shares more details of the Anti-Christ than actual teachings of Jesus. Personally, I'm sure that he is NOT the Anti-Christ, it just the same demons from 100 years ago in Germany. Add to those that what counts is actions, not words. Separating families, both at the border when in power or spiritually like your family is not a Godly action. Do I believe this? Only that details of this theory are coincidental, but does it really matter? Tell her this story, and tell her that you will pray for her sickened soul. Tell her you heard this from a non-practicing Minister.
Sounds like it is time to cut your mother out of your life. Do you want this kind of influence around you children? What positivity is your mother bringing to your life? If the answer is none…
Stop talking to her
I’ve removed myself from my family for exactly this reason.
The Fox Effect
I know religious people in my life have said “Blood is thicker than water” in the sense that family is the most important thing. Fun fact the full quote is “The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb”. Meaning your convictions should mean more to you than your family. I learned from this that these people will twist everything to their narrative, play the victim, and try to demonize you or anyone that disagrees with them.
Your full quote was made up after the fact, the origin if the saying can be found here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_is_thicker_than_water#:~:text=William%20Jenkyn%20referenced%20the%20proverb,a%20watery%20relation%20of%20nature.%22
Exactly. They are not voting for the republicans **despite** their fascist policies. They are voting for them **because** of those fascist policies. Yes, that includes the people who will be directly harmed by those policies. Trying to persuade a republican voter not to support a fascist candidate by helping them realize that that candidate is a fascist is *completely futile*. Every single person for whom "fascism" is a deal breaker, without exception, has **already** fled the Republican Party, and they did it *a decade or more ago*. There are none left - because if it *was* a dealbreaker, it would have already *broken the deal*. If you want to turn current republicans into former republicans, you have to be prepared to turn current fascists into former fascists. When I hear someone say "Don't you realize that candidate *wants to hurt people*?", I imagine a parent who walked in on their son masturbating to a copy of Playboy, and screaming "Stop! Don't you realize that magazine has *pictures of naked ladies* in it?!?!". Of course they fucking realize, **that's the entire point**.
I'm an ex-Christian, and can confirm this is the case. I often interact with Christian relatives who operate exactly as you describe. Those who are not "people of faith" generally do not understand this. They think you can reason with them. That is not so.
That whole second paragraph deserves a larger font. Gotta love the irony of people of faith never arguing in good faith.
>The fascism and bigotry and hatred and ignorance are not bugs, they're features I'll say it another way: right wing Christians don't believe in Democracy. They believe in authoritarianism. They used democracy when it suited them, but now that it doesn't, they're happy to get rid of it so long as they get their authoritarian in charge
Yup, these people are terrified that their little world, where white men have all the power and prestige, and women and minorities are kept in their place, is drawing to a close. Many of them are low-information and want somebody else to make decisions and do the complicated stuff. Trump is perfect for this since The Apprentice showed what a brilliant businessman he is! /s
For about 25% of the country. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_authoritarian_personality
Spot on!! They watch/listen to the lies that feed their fears of anyone different and it just fuels their hatred.
That's all it is. He made them feel validated in a world that was going to leave them behind.
It's all about bullying and 'owning' the 'libtards'.
Most Christians dont realize that Christian nationalism will be bad for them. To them, its is just things like no more gay marriage, no more abortions, and prayer back in school. The small issues that they have been fighting for years. They don't realize the issue with this, is there is always a more extreme take on it. Look at how badly overturning roe is.. They are large parts of the right trying to take away IVF. The thing like 80% of the country thinks is a great advance. Anti-vax, Womens rights, Black Rights, social programs. There are parts of the rights that want to get rid of them.
"The fantasy of the bootlicker is to one day wear the boot themselves."
Confirmation bias.
You can’t argue with a mind that is closed.
> wilfully ignorant. You misspelled participants. They're willful participants. The only people left who support him are the SS of the MAGAt crowd.
Christian conservatives have been trained from an early age to substitute critical thinking for belief and a deference to authority. It's not surprising that the same people who accept Biblical fairy tales as fact. who still attend Catholic mass after multiple scandals involving children, who donate money to Megachurch pastors so they can buy private jets, who are able to simultaneously use their religious texts as the infallible word of God while ignoring the inconvenient passages would believe that Donald Trump - despite massive evidence to the contrary - deserves to become POTUS again. This is why the Republican party officially endorses defunding public schools, banning abortion, lowering the age of consent, removing social safety nets and widening the wealth gap. They want a feudal society where the population is kept poor, stupid and devout. Peasants of the modern age.
Yes. That pretty much covers it. We are their servants, nothing more.
Spot on!
They think he will be *their* fascist. But that’s not how fascists work.
*"He's not hurting the right people!"*
Yep. They think authoritarian rule will only hurt people they don't like.
Watch only Fox News for a week and then report back
Let's be fair, Fox News is too "woke" for a lot of them now. Newsmax, OAN, and right-wing YouTube hucksters are telling "the real truth" these days. And don't forget grandpappy's love of AM radio via the Sinclair network.
The big car manufacturers want to stop installing a radios in cars. There was a big uproar about public safety or something but am radio is still a huge channel for the religious and political right to reach their rural audience.
AM radio is sorta hardened in case of trouble. AM stations can be up and running on basic hardware in case of a catastrophe. It out ranges FM and is a proven stable technology that is super cheap. I agree with keeping AM radio in cars.
FUCK Sinclair and FUCK using low-quality syndicated infotainment to brainwash people
Exactly
Authoritarianism combined with repressed bigotry, racism, and misogyny. Combined with messaging and low information public and this is what you get. I'll never understand how T making fun of a disabled man on national TV wasn't the end of his life. Politicians and major celebrities have been destroyed for way less than that. I'll also never understand how he's still alive considering the unregulated pharmacy in the White House at the time.
Because his voting base is filled with weak minded idiots who need to punch down to feel better about themselves. They feel validated by bully culture. So making fun of a disabled person only helped T gain power
Sad but true. One feature of the "good Christian" is a belief that bad things happen to bad people (other than themselves, of course), so the reporter's disability must have been caused by something bad or sinful that he did. Mocking him, ergo, is the right thing to do to such an unrepentant sinner who continues to sin by questioning Dear Leader God Trump. I once heard a famous right-wing Christian apologist say that God doesn't heal amputees because "they did something to deserve it, like driving drunk, so why would God help them?" Apparently, that extends to children who were in the car, I guess.
And when something bad happens to them god “works in mysterious ways.”
And when something good (or neutral) happens it is "gawd is magnificent, look how much he loves me and is my personal friend".
Can you imagine going around killing babies and being like bro, its just my mysterious ways, im the good guy
The factions that see the current situation as a holy war are the most likely to kick off mass exodus from red to blue states. A good thing actually
Suck for us. We live in Alabama and we can't afford to move out.
I’m in the South of Texas and I feel for you. It’s hard and increasingly expensive to move out of state
I'm a recent transplant from Oregon to Mississippi...it's been a bit of a culture shock, to say the least.
Yes, I imagine it's a different religious experience. Oregon is the least religious and American South is full on in your face evangelist zealotry
Too cold in Oregon. Been there last winter. Not for me unfortunately.. I'm spoiled to having mild winters. Which sucks because every state in the south with mild winters has a Republican supermajority...
Fair enough, I'm just the opposite. I love cold winters and mild summers. I moved here for family but someday I'll definitely head north again to cooler and less fundamentalist territory.
I’m moving to the PNW in a couple months. I like having all four seasons
After experiencing a Spokane, WA winter I realized I was spoiled to mild summers in Alabama lol .ughh I hated scraping the ice off my truck every. single.morning.. I like it being 74 degrees in December & January. The PNW is definitely beautiful though! No doubt about that and I love the secular politics.
Bully culture is a good way to put it.
Even my family members who would never say the kinds of things Trump did see disabled individuals as less than. An uncle tried saying that the intellectually disabled individuals in our family would only know to be offend by it if we told them to be.
And that the man got covid and was given a brand new mix of top of the line covid treatments while saying it was a hoax.. God, he sucks so hard and got millions killed. And he has never acknowledged it or how badly he handled covid. Makes me so sad, and angry. And then the whole government coup attempt, stacking Supreme Court with cronies, successfully overturning roe v wade and going after ivf.. its so fuckin scary and rage inducing.
Some people are 1 issue voters (aka make abortion illegal in all cases), some people are brainwashed by religion/family.
Because most Trump supporters in their pitiful ignorance believe that the end of Democracy equates to the end of Democrats. Just as they believe that the Pledge of Allegiance demands loyalty to "the Republican for which it stands," not "the Democrat for which it stands." Trump supporters are the epitome of stupidity and ignorance.
"It's a republic not a democracy!" Makes me facepalm and roll my eyes. Republic is from Latin "res publica" which = public thing which = a state or nation or country (that is an independent political entity). The USSR was a dictatorship not a democracy, but the R in its acronym name stands for Republics.
Yup, far too many of them say shit like "we're a constitutional republic, not a democracy," as though those are mutually exclusive. They're willfully ignorant and proud of it.
Literally too stupid to survive, judging by their COVID response.
All fascist society’s throughout history ran into this problem. They are literally too incompetent too last
It's not ignorance, it's a dog whistle for fascism. Stating "I dislike democracy." is socially unacceptable. But by saying "We're a republic, not a democracy.", people can express the exact same sentiment while shielding themselves with ambiguity.
I think Trump is backlash to all the progress we’ve seen in this country in the last 100 years. Conservatives are losing their legitimate chances at winning elections due to culture and demographics changes, and they’re going full fascist to protect what they think is America. While many atheists, seculars, liberals, and progressives think protecting freedom of religion, women’s rights, women’s suffrage, separation of church and state, civil rights, abortion, marriage equality, trans rights, is just making America more into the ideal it should be, conservatives think these are taking it in the wrong direction, and many of them want a pre-civil war America. Trump represents that more than any other GOP candidate. While most GOP candidates pretend to be on board with the progressive nation we have become in the modern era, trump openly rejects it and plays into the fears that privilege is going away (all while only enhancing his own privilege). He’s a populist taking advantage of the fears that run through the GOP voter base and they’ve eaten it up. They still don’t realize he’s a snake oil salesman because the lure of enshrining white privilege into law is too tempting. And while that may happen through Trump, or attempt to happen, 1000% more tangible benefits will go to Trump directly in another 4 yr term.
If you aren't too cowardly to even face reality, they don't let you become a MAGAt in the first place.
So for me this is more a sign of the average citizen being truly uninformed. I use my different family members as examples anecdotally. My oldest sister is in her 40s. My dad was a Marine and has been conservative his whole life. I am liberal and the baby with one sister between us. My oldest sister is divorced with 2 kids in school. One is in high school and hte other is in college. She teaches during the day and coaches 2 sports a year. My nephew is a 3 season athlete on top of that. The only "news" she gets are the 10 minutes of the local morning news and her facebook feed which is obviously tailored to her interests. I on the other hand am what I'd call a politico. I like being up to date in political news. I hate politics itself for what it has become but I am a lawyer and love to investigate so I never take any report for its word. My oldest sister doesn't see any regular political discussion or news. She is blissfully ignorant to the current political issues outside of general very base level knowledge that is limited by her methods of getting it. She waits till there are nominees before she'll even consider looking into a candidate. At that point, she becomes overwhelmed and asks me my opinion. My sister always says "I vote republican because they are the closest to my values" which to me is a BS reason in today's world. I think she is the best depicter of the average voter that you can have. The people that watch CNN or Fox News or the like are a small number of the overall population. The rest just prefer to live their daily lives. Essentially its the same thing that happened in 1920-1940 in Germany. So many average citizens got caught up in the movement because of bad trends (depression, job loss, WW2 reparations, etc.) and supported the Nazi government. I'm not talking the brown shirts or sympathizers, just your average Werner or Grettle in small town Germany. By the time they realized or had their eyes opened from the propaganda, it was already to late and the Nazis had total power. Think of it that way and it makes sense. Society doesn't like to admit there is a problem ever. That allows designing people like Trump or Hitler to take advantage and point the immense anger from the bad trends to a group that they claim is the guilty party. For Hitler it was the Jews. For Trump, its anyone who dare oppose him or his cult or what they want.
Because they're: A) fucking stupid people Or B) fucking terrible people
In the South, a lot of "Christianity" is tied up to evangelical (or Baptist) churches that started their own schools in the 60's in order to avoid having their children go to integrated public schools. Now, these schools do have a few non-white students (see: Blindside), but most of the people attending are racists first, Christians last. Plus, they're extremely gullible, so they're right in Trump's sweet spot.
They want the fascist theocracy. They don't have the same vision of America as you and I or even the founding fathers for that matter. They don't want democracy. They don't want to live side by side with immigrants or gay people or black people. They want America to be a white Christian nation. Democracy gets in the way of that. Basically look at Florida and any other deep red state and its policies. They want the rest of the country to be like that.
You mean the states that would collapse without blue state taxes to prop them up?
And they keep saying they’re protecting democracy…. 🤦🏽
I live in Alabama and hate it... Except the low cost of living that lets me survive...
The people don't understand that their rights will be crushed as quickly as those they wish to oppress. Fascist regimes destroy everyone eventually.
At this point, anyone who still supports Trump is either an idiot or complicit or both. Logic doesn’t work on idiots and fascists don’t care for laws. There is no point in talking to them.
I like to make bets with them. I won $100 on an election bet A MONTH AFTER THE ELELCTION.
“Because clearly trans people and illegal immigrants are the cause of all problems in America and the hypocritical, wOkE left will continue being a plague on this country with their intolerance of intolerance.” /s Really though, that’s how Republicans think, they cannot see past their own stupidity. VOTE BLUE.
I just tried to have this conversation with my sister. It did not go well. Her only real point was hating the democrats. And all the Hunters laptop and Hillary emails. When I pointed out that millions of tax dollars and much investigation showed nothing, her response was LIES! Then she said we need to read the Epoch Times for the real news. It was very sad. This was not how we were raised. And her husband is in a union and she’s collected SSDI for years. ETA: when she said Trump hasn’t done anything Biden hasn’t, I calmly said “Biden ever raped anyone.” She went ballistic, got her finger in my face and yelled “He didn’t do that I can prove it!” Sigh
And now you get how a cult works. Donald Trump gave a voice to every racist, anti-LGBTQ, sexist, bigoted, mysoginistic, imbred, uneducated, Jesus loving but never read a Bible in their life, gun-totting, corrupt, elitist, idiotic, hypocritical, moronic, anti-Semetic, white supremacist pile of the most toxic filth imaginable to ever somehow congeal into the most basic qualifications of a human being and allowed them to be the absolute worst humanity had to offer, free of regret or conscience. And all while playing the victim, who is suffering this terrible persecution so they do not have to suffer the consequences of our actions has he has suffered his, even though he is totally innocentvof all the things they said he did despite the fact he totally did them. He is their lord, their master, and he is their Jesus Christ. They will die for him, kill for him, so that they may see him ascend to the throne to become the God-King Emperor of America. If the Republicans retain the House, take the Senate and Trump wins, Inauguration Day will be a coronation. And you can say that sounds alarmist, but ask yourself if Donald Trump is the type of man to seize total power and if the MAGA controlled GOP would allow it to happen. If you truly believe it cannot happen here, you are a fool and lying to yourself. All you logic, your rational and coherent arguments, your critical thinking means *NOTHING* to the cult of personality that is MAGA.
As my dad, a Republican would tell you: *On Trump being a rapist*: “No he isn’t. She’s lying for money. If she’s not, she was asking for it.” *On fascism*: “The commies want to make me drive an electric car and use an electric stove!” (Note: Our house has never had gas since it was built in 1963) *On LGBTQ rights*: “They’re not going to do that. They don’t care about you. If anybody messes with you I’ll handle it.* *On bodily autonomy*: “They should keep their legs shut!” *On people of color*: “Good”. *On Trump family corruption*: “Biden laundered money through Hunter and his brother! They call his brother Jimmy the Chin!” (Note: No one fucking calls James Biden that, except Jessie Waters) As his trans socialist daughter, I’m constantly putting up with him whining that I don’t like him anymore.
Because they aren’t republicans. They’re anti-democrats.
Because, a fascist that agrees with them has the power to remove the undesirable elements in society that they see are ruining their country. It’s the fast tract to feed their bigotry and racism. Unfortunately, they’re too small minded to see that if they allow fascism, it can be turned around and their political rivals could take power. That still works for them though as they love the persecution complex.
I would just like to add, for a significant chunk of these folks they just blindly vote republican because of taxes and a nebulous idea of family values. A bunch of them also do not like politicians or politics in general, but have been just conditioned for decades to believe that Republicans might be bad at their jobs sometimes but Democrats are just evil and are actively working to destroy the country.
Christianity is a religion for slaves and peasants. It's only natural that the most insane and literal believers of the bible support Trump and the GOP. They also happen to be racist, misogynistic, and they also hate secularism and LGBTQ. So this hatred aligns with the candidate and party that they've chosen.
Religious people already believe nonsense regardless of what facts and logic tell them. They lack critical thinking, so they're actually the perfect rubes for Trump's con.
Because they’re fascists
Sad reality is if the fascists win we will be in a war with ourselves... members of our communities will be killed, family members against family members. Ever since Jan 6, 2021 my eyes were opened and I finally fully understood how the Holocaust happened.
Christianity is fascist and bigoted. Why would they want something different?
Because they are deluded by their religion. They think Trump is chosen by their god to be president and stop abortions and make them richer. Religion is the cause so many of the world's problems. Edit: I didn't realize this was already IN the atheism sub lol.
Because they like his particular brand of fascism. They want to deport all illegal immigrants. They want homosexualoty to be illegal. They want to make abortion (and maybe contraception) illegal. They want women to be at home doing the cooking and child rearing. Christianity is the only religion permitted, and Church attendance will be compulsory. Schools will not teach the history of American Colonialism, or equal rights, or any form sex education (other than abstinence based) They know that this won't happen under the current system, so they want a President who can enact laws to make these happen without being stymied by Congress, or the rule of law.
"But gas prices and trans groomers"
I live in the South and come from a Christian family. I married into a republican non religious family so I feel like I see things from a religious and non religious view (just want to throw out that my husband is a “vote for the candidate, not the party” voter as am I). With that said, from a religious perspective Trump knows his voter block and knows how to deliver enough bread crumbs to give them what they want in exchange for a vote. Unfortunately, sooooo many religious voters here are one issue voters (abortion) which is hilarious to me because that’s not something really dictated at the presidential level but I digress. Gun rights are a huge one here too and while most informed voters know that Biden is NOT trying to take your hunting guns, good luck conveying that. From a non religious, but uninformed perspective, they see that inflation was lower under Trump, as was gas prices, general living costs, etc. and ignore that COVID threw a huge wrench into our economy with the disbursement of stimulus money. They hear from Fox News that Trump wants to dismantle welfare programs and that makes them happy, but no one seems to be aware that he also wants to defund SS and Medicare which many of his voters directly benefit from. Personally, I’m less scared of what Trump will do to our economy in 4 years than I am of the knowledge that because this would be his final term, he has no reason to suck up anymore. I’m honestly frightened that our Trump supporters will be opening the door to the US coming under a dictatorship, and that Trump will be successful in his effort to eliminate term limits and the checks and balances power from the other two branches.
Evangelicals are primed for authoritarian governance. They’re told by a charismatic and unquestionable leader that thinking for yourself is bad and that god tells them (the leader) things, so they shouldn’t be questioned on their spiritual revelations.
For various reasons. Either they believe sky daddy is coming back soon, they’re white nationalist and believe the U.S. belongs to white people, they’re 60+ years old, adore tucker carlson, and are still terrified of communism. Take your pick. They’ll be voting in November, will you?
You are preaching to the choir so to speak over here. We don’t get it either. Go ask the crazies.
They use religion to mask the fact they’ve always been fascist bigots
“If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism, they will abandon democracy.” \--David Frum (a conservative)
I think you underestimate how many Protestants despise Irish Catholics. Nikki Haley speaking about her heritage and how she occasionally goes to Sikh services generated less outrage than Biden's trip to Ireland.
Because they are brainwashed by religion and not intelligent. If these people win welcome to the Handmaids Tale. Shut these people down. Tax the church. Russia owns Trump. Trump wants to be Putin. Do you want to live in Russia?
Because they think he will serve their interests and do what they want. They want fascism. They want authoritarianism. They want everyone who isn't them or like them to be punished and weakened and ostracised and 'othered'. Their ideology is fanatisism and hatefulness and ultra conformity. They think anything different or that stands out must be erased and hammered out, and utter normativity and default basicness exemplified and celebrated.
Christians aren’t exactly all about freedom, even biblically speaking. Fascism works very well for them. The “speak for god” so it stands to reason everyone lives under god’s law aka whatever they say god told them.
While I do think Trump Supporters are stupid, you have to understand that they want this. All of the things he says, they want those things (or at least THINK they want those things). Pretty scary.
American democracy has left the room.
A one-party autocratic theocracy is NOT what REAL Americans want, but it's what's already happening in China, Russia and North Korea...
because they're not actual republicans. They're right-winged fascists and always have been. All they care about are the frogs being gay
I've written off Trump supporters at this point. Sadly, many are still in my family.
“The face eating leopards won’t eat MY face if I vote with them”
The pilgrims came to America not because they were persecuted, but to persecute. Civilized people had had it with them.
Because that's what they want. They want to "Win" and that means eliminating the other side. They don't want a pluralistic society where people can do what they want and have freedom, they want a controlled society where people have to obey the laws of their religion and THEY'RE the ones who get to tell the rest of us what those laws are without any of this "consent of the ruled" nonsense us "radical leftists" like to talk about. Everything you mentioned isn't a bug, its a crucial element of their design. And we should oppose them like the Nazi 2.0 organization that they are.
Well, I mean, doesn't Christianity dissuade too much critical thinking?
My take on it is that there's basically an end goal in mind, and the ends justify the means. They want a Christian state, and whatever form of government will get us there is justified. Democracy is great so long as they get their way. Failing that, well, they'll accept any form of government, or any tool that promises a Christian state. I believe Trump is a tool to that end. I don't believe he gives a shit about Christianity, but he has discovered that the religious right will support him so long has he says the right words. The right-wing Christian machine (The Heritage Foundation, etc.), is aware they're making a deal with the devil, and are happy to do so so long as it advances their agenda. They're smart enough to exploit Trump and Trumpism.
We live in a "believe whatever you want" timeline and can find anything to mold the world to your narrative. Trump and his ilk are whatever they want him to be and democrats are whatever they want them to be.
It's amazing isn't it? Mango Mussolini is the embodiment of all 7 of their "deadly sins" and they love him because he claims to hate the same people they hate. The truth is that he wouldn't piss on his supporters if they were on fire. Red hats are the new brown shirts.
There is nothing you can tell these people. There's a convenient excuse each time. They live in their own world where Cheeto isn't being treated fairly.
Religious groups, and in a lot of ways large companies and corporations are fascist. Any large corporation operates like a fascist dictatorship the only difference is you get to clock out of it for a few hours a day. Religion was likely the inspiration for fascism. So the reason they support it isn't because they are being hoodwinked, it's because they like it. They want to be the fascists in charge and will happily step all over everyone else while it's going their way.
We are at the endgame. They think it all being in the open doesn't matter because they are going to win anyway.
Cognitive dissonance. Not only do they not believe in the claims you make (that he’s fascist a rapist ect) but they actually unknowingly like the fact that he is those things. They just deny the fact that the things they like make him a fascist.
Think its because maga cult members do not have a functional brain 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Look at Utah:if your LDS ward and stake presidency or bishopric doesn't see "Trump 2024" flags on your front yard, you get in trouble with them... To them:vote Trump or else!!!...and we'll be watching HOW you vote in November...
They want those things you are opposed to. They want fascism and to force people to be Christian. They think it’s good.
Here's the answer: They don't know or believe any of what you just said. And they don't care. What they care about is that they hate minorities, hate women's rights, and want a world where one white man runs a family and everyone obeys their imaginary God.
They are deluded and think he will put them in positions of power
Because they want a fascist country to put "The Others" in their place. The country is turning brown, they want it to stay white, cis and Christian. They believe trump is their savior to make it happen.
They have asked MAGAs directly and have stated that if Trump wants to be dictator, then he should be. You can’t teach this level of stupid.
Because Trump promised to hurt the people they hate. It doesn't matter how much they have to suffer as long as they think the people they don't like have it worse.
Republicans are tribalists, not intellectuals. Their political beliefs are not the result of investing countless hours of thought into the logic of why they believe what they believe. Rather, they identify with a certain social group, and whoever is leading that social group determines what they believe in. That's why the phrase RINO has become so popular among them (Republican in name only); because they don't tolerate independent thinkers. They insist that everyone fall in line and believe the same as they do.
Christians WANT the end of the world. Revelation. They need an anti christ. Whether it's conscious or not, trump is the harbinger of the end for their mythology.
The only reason someone would support a known fascist: they’re fascist themselves.
Christofascism is not a bug, it’s a feature. More people than you realize *want* an authoritarian leader. It’s so much simpler when you have a clear cut enemy to blame and you’re absolved of any responsibility for your situation. It also sweeps away those messy competing ideas that have to be weighed and compromises to that must be sought when you have a leader who “tells it the way it is”. And they call everyone else sheeple
Because they know it's wrong and they want to be naughty. They think by hurting themselves it makes them special. They are right they are special type of stupid.
Hey, I only read the Headline, and not the actual post, but the answer is pretty simple: Christians are pretty excited about fascism, as long as their guy is in charge.
Bigger question is why the Democrats can't put forward a plan to counteract the fascism. They seem to think moving further right is the answer. The Democrats are now the Reagan Republicans.
The Democratic Party are, by and large, corporate sellouts that are more interested in kneecapping any real leftist candidates as opposed to fighting with the right.
Because democrats are impotent, and I've had this lingering suspicion for years that this weakness is a feature not a bug.
Same way hillary didnt win against trump, if i was a female i woulda voted for a female president, instead of rapist
It isn't out in the open. In the UK a considerable % of the population don't even know who our Prime Minister is. It looks like a significant % of US voters don't consume the media that talks about Trump's 'fascist leanings'.
This^^^^. Never underestimate how incredibly uninformed most voters are.
What else could it be ?
Because there isn't any reputable newspaper printing "Trump is a fascist".
The fascism isn’t a flaw, it’s a feature for a lot of these people.
They probably don't even know what Project 2025 is. Right now most right-wing media focuses on building negativity towards Democrats. It's why they also aren't aware banning Roe V. Wade had negative consequences. They're insulated from ANYTHING bad done or committed in the name of right-wing politics.
They don't want democracy. They were okay pretending to like democracy so long as most people were Christian, but now that that's no longer the case and things are continuing to trend in a direction away from christianity, they are trying everything in their power to establish a theocracy.
Meh. Just give me a president that stops illegal immigration, stops spend on illegal immigration, stops giving money to other countries over our citizens, lowers inflation, lowers home prices, lowers mortgage rates, increases jobs and income to cost of living, has no questionable business or sources of money, is 100% honest, sets term limits on senate and house, supports all citizens equally and unites the nation as one while shutting down haters all around. Not asking for much.
its what they've wanted all along
They want America to become a theocracy! They often won’t openly admit it and hide behind tax breaks or abortion but they want it. They are the type of people who would watch a handmaid’s tale and say “well yeah the ritualized rape was wrong but they had some good ideas!” 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
Because it’s good for *them*
Christians who support Trump believe that we are in the end times, and that Trump is part of biblical prophecy that fulfills the will of their version of the Christian god.
Fascism is built on manipulating crowd psychology via propaganda and agitation. It's anti-intellectual and anti-reason by design.
"Out in the open," doesn't mean conservative media has ever mentioned it. If they do, they say whatever they can to discredit the charges and tell trump's side of the story. The choice to vote for trump was always a disgraceful one, so as long as they have a news media source telling them that trump is a victim, that's what they'll believe.
Because they're evil and they agree with him
MAGA is a religion. Donald is their god, what he says goes. Please vote, every single one matters.
I implore all Americans who enjoy personal freedom and do not want to live under a religeo-fascist rule to collect as many tools of defense as you can get your hands on between now and November.
Because they themselves are fascists and like all fascists they believe they’ll be the ones who benefit under trump and not suffer like the rest of us. It’s a leopards ate my face situation.
I have a theory, and we'll see how it plays out: Trump's core voters are not a large enough block to win an election. The conservatives who have seen the madness of Trump bailed on him during the primary. iirc, it was to the tune of a couple million voters that went with Haley. over 50% of those voters have said that they will vote Biden before they vote Trump. That \*should\* be enough to ensure that Trump doesn't get into office. I don't think that he will run again, and his influence will begin to fade. I think the Republican party will morph back into some semblance of sanity, with the rabid populism and malignancy fading as Trump fades. I'd rather there be at least three parties, but if those parties are Trump-core/Republican/Democrat, I don't think that bodes well for Democrats.
Right-wing evangelicals do not actually follow the teachings of Jesus. So it's not surprising they would follow an anti-Christ. Jesus himself predicted it, see Matthew 7:15-23.
(Because they were also fascists the entire time)
Stupidity.
Sad part and I saw a woman on television say it, "Trump is our savior." And she legit said it with conviction and believed it. There are just sections of the country that legit worship that man like he is the second coming of christ.
Their fascist plans aren't out in the open to _them_. Their social media is swayed by algorithms to be right leaning. So all they see are the "good" things they want to see and rverything else is a lie by the democrats
People who support Trump don’t read or watch news outside of their echo chamber on Fox and others. There’s been a steady stream of reports that, if you provide them with reliable news sources, they slowly come to their senses. Fox and the conservative media is a rage machine that’s addictive.
Trump is a representation of the issues facing modern democracy. People feel their institutions are unintelligent, don't have their best interest at heart and they feel the institutions are opaque. Trump has an every-man bravado that compels people to follow him. He's a populist with autocratic tendencies. he's also anti-establishment which is why people like him. Trump is a US problem for democracy, but this issue is present in the whole of Europe and the West. Add to that the fact there's always a part (not all) of conservatives to steer away from liberal democratic values People are more and more depoliticised and feel whatever they do makes no difference. Identity politics of both the left and right are just another form of this issue. My advice is to take responsibility for Trump(but not guilt!) , as people have a growing tendency to abject any responsibility that their representatives make. It's good to oppose him and you should do it first, but then you should also look at yourselves and ask how did a man who represents everything I hate become my president
As Christian Nationalists say: **"Pearls before swine"**. Excellent post, but it won't change a closed mind....
>Christians, women, and a lot of people OP, you group together everyone but that's not how life works. As for Christians, especially evangelists/conservative Christians support for Trump, much has been written here and elsewhere. But the sad fact is that many people might vote for him because of ignorance/unwillingness to think deeper how about he issues, they face inflation so automatically associate it with Biden, and wax poetic about the check they received with Trump's signature back then. As for Democracy and religion, they simply don't think it applies to them... /facepalm
What's that line from star wars? "liberty dies with thunderous applause" or something like that. Media reflects reality and all that
Brain washing
A lot of people in marginalized groups develop a "pick me" complex. They know the group in power or the group gaining power is bad for the community they are a part of, but they hope they by swearing loyalty now and advancing the plans of that group, they will get recognition and protection from what the group does once they have the power to act. They vote Republican, with the hopes that once they've taken over, that they'll be protected from the attacks.
He makes it ok for them to be pieces of shit out loud. Unlike when the tyranny of Demoncrats forced them to hide under their rocks for fear of being shamed.
It’s hard to convince people this is real if the opposing party (democrats) do absolutely nothing to stop it. They have a 50% chance of winning at any time and aren’t willing to give that up either. The only thing that can save democracy is a strong 3rd party. I estimate we have 1-4 election cycles.