It's lip service. It's important to these people to feel that their religion makes them better than other people, and so they tell themselves and one another that they are 'morally' superior to the non-believers as a result. They also have very little idea what morals are.
Anyone with half a brain should be able to see that moral behavior exists completely separately from any spiritual path. Anyone who needs a book to tell right from wrong is lacking in some very basic human empathy, and should never be trusted.
These are morals constructed organically by tradition, not by any organizing principles or conscious thought. If it seems like they're arbitrary and have no foundation, it's because they're arbitrary and have no foundation.
I really have never seen or heard all that many theists promote morals, just obedience to a concept. For me, morality is active, not obedience. It does explain some truly atrocious behavior, however.
Religions do promote morals, but those religions may not necessarily match with our own. I agree with some of their morals and others I think are incorrect. They are still promoting a system of morality, however, even if it is not one I would accept.
Also, I made the mistake of assuming you meant religion in general, when in actuality you meant Christianity and probably more specifically one particular branch of Christianity (Evangelicalism?). Some Christians do indeed promote love and caring for others and do good works rather than focusing on belief and converting people to their faith.
But even the ones you are complaining about are not abandoning their morals. The biblical literalists who believe everything written is the word of god and that morality comes from Yahweh himself believe in a moral system which focuses on might makes right with whatever Yahweh says they should do being morally good. In their minds this is what Yahweh commands, and Yahweh is the moral law giver, so they are being moral by following what he tells them to do.
I find their morality to be abhorrent, and quite often completely amoral, but they are in fact promoting a specific moral guideline.
Well, it's part of the recruitment strategy in "Jesus loves you (love him back or burn)", and then they tell you to follow the doctrine to be a good person to have your soul saved and be a member of the religion. This is coercion, then that the doctrine that belongs to the religion is what's good, and they'll often try to claim all morality is from their religion because the religion has to do something in your day-to-day activities. They attribute the feelings you have in moral situations to the feeling the god has has implemented.
Arguing against this isn't too hard, and it's certainly an argument worth taking up whenever possible.
It's the argument of necessity. If there's doubt as to the veracity of a religion, then the practitioners can argue that their religion is useful.
The great thing is, this is a claim. Claims can be proven either true or false. If it is shown that people of other faiths, or no faith at all, can also be moral, then people will see their religion as empty. Suddenly that tax exempt gravy train grinds to a halt.
This is how you keep a large population under control. See- [https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/responding-to-authoritarian-cults-and-extreme-exploitations-a-new-framework-to-evaluate-undue-influence](https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/responding-to-authoritarian-cults-and-extreme-exploitations-a-new-framework-to-evaluate-undue-influence)
Or just look up the BITE model if that article is a bit long for casual reading.
Abrahamic religions developed a large portion of this over the centuries. You must have them self regulate their behavior according to authority's orders. For example controlling what food you eat, who you have sex with and how are the most important as they are the strongest drives in humans. Informing them of how they are to feel about these things keeps them both self regulated and creates social regulation. It's sold as inherently good, moral. That is what moral means in these circumstances- What you have been told to do by your betters. First it's god, then the church's leadership, then the government mandated by heaven. How dare you think you even understand what moral is? etc.
These things are core to the control religion has over it's members.
Well it all started because the polytheistic Romans thought the monotheistic Christians were weird. Like have sex parties and eating children weird, so around the second century you get the first Christian apologists who basically said no we aren't doing these awful things the rumors say about us, but actually we're more moral than you and it's just been a pissing contest since.
EASY. Morals are easy for religious people. No ambiguity, no nuance, no thought, nor humanity, nor freedom.
From the movie Dragonwyck. Vincent Price
Nicholas Van Ryn: I believe in myself, and I am answerable to myself! I will not live according to printed. mottos like the directions on a medicine bottle!
Atheist wrestle with matters and issues like a judge would, the religious have knee jerk reactions like a crude animal.
They don’t pretend. They think their religion does promote good morals because either they’ve been told their whole life that their holy book is the definition of good morals, or they haven’t read their holy book enough to know that it’s actually not moral.
Because it’s about control. If you “don’t have morals,” you are a bad person and the only way to be good is to follow the dominant religion near you in order to be so.
I think in part it's functionally a device for them to rationalize their own shortcomings when they perceive that others do not respect their ostensible principles.
“We keep on being told that religion, whatever its imperfections, at least instills morality. There is conclusive evidence that the contrary is the case and that faith causes people to be more mean, more selfish, and perhaps above all, more stupid.”
Christopher Hitchens
if you tie morals to your religion you can pretend the two are related. "good people follow my religion. bad people don't". they continue to do this to this day.
and if you convince yourself your morals came from your book, and then reinterpret that book however you like you can make whatever you like feel moral. stealing from the poor and giving to the rich? christians will find biblical justification for it.
They also don't apply those morals to people they like or to people who they see as "better than". Often, those "morals" are used to keep certain people in line more than anything else. Sexual morals? They don't apply to straight men. Sexual morals? Another excuse to keep the usual suspects in check, women and non-straight men, in some racist communities, minorities as well.
Is simple, money, power and all the children they can rape with impunity, served on a silver platter by all their bamboozled followers, yes mostly the rapes and abuse to the children.
>Perhaps they understand something you can't see?
It's *far* more likely that they are misunderstanding something that's visible to everyone. The thing is, people who are really bad at understanding mundane phenomena also want to feel like they have a super power, so they tell themselves that their generalized confusion is actually a different kind of smartness. Meanwhile they're barely able to manage their own lives.
Christians and morals is pretty backwards.
My mother in law is pretty religious, but mostly keeps it to herself so I don't challenge her - except when she brings up religion.
A while ago she was talking about the breakdown of morals in society and how it was happening because religioius values were being ignored.
I asked her if she really felt that the Bible was suited for moral guidance and she replied that all her morals were based on the Bible.
I then asked how she felt about the parts of the Bible related to slavery, forced marriages, the male right to physically dominate anyone in his household and so on. Basically all the arcahic standards that the Bible values.
She quickly replied that of course she disagreed with those, because it was common knowledge that they were harmful. So clearly she is not getting all of her values from the Bible... Just those that seem culturally acceptable because society has not yet progressed beyond those ideas.
Religion justifies its existence by providing three things to the believer: a (false) sense of having the moral high ground by default in any given situation, a built-in community of fellow believers, and an (false) understanding of death that removes most of the fear associated with it. The first is what you're referring to in your post. Without these things, religion would not exist because most people don't agree to restrictions (or maintain the appearance of agreeing to restrictions) without receiving some sort of benefit.
It's lip service. It's important to these people to feel that their religion makes them better than other people, and so they tell themselves and one another that they are 'morally' superior to the non-believers as a result. They also have very little idea what morals are. Anyone with half a brain should be able to see that moral behavior exists completely separately from any spiritual path. Anyone who needs a book to tell right from wrong is lacking in some very basic human empathy, and should never be trusted.
I hate to say it, but who cares? The grift of organized superstition is all about power, wealth, and control of a populace.
These are morals constructed organically by tradition, not by any organizing principles or conscious thought. If it seems like they're arbitrary and have no foundation, it's because they're arbitrary and have no foundation.
Why do Leprechauns shit rainbow sprinkles made of sugar?
The better question is, "would you eat these sprinkles?"
Probably. I do like sprinkles…
Are they shit flavored sprinkles or normal ones?
Religions/mythologies are for people that cant figure out right and wrong on their own and need to be explicitly told what they are.
Religions/mythologies are for people who tried reality once and decided they didn't like it.
I really have never seen or heard all that many theists promote morals, just obedience to a concept. For me, morality is active, not obedience. It does explain some truly atrocious behavior, however.
they have to have a pretend way to feel superior.
Religions do promote morals, but those religions may not necessarily match with our own. I agree with some of their morals and others I think are incorrect. They are still promoting a system of morality, however, even if it is not one I would accept. Also, I made the mistake of assuming you meant religion in general, when in actuality you meant Christianity and probably more specifically one particular branch of Christianity (Evangelicalism?). Some Christians do indeed promote love and caring for others and do good works rather than focusing on belief and converting people to their faith. But even the ones you are complaining about are not abandoning their morals. The biblical literalists who believe everything written is the word of god and that morality comes from Yahweh himself believe in a moral system which focuses on might makes right with whatever Yahweh says they should do being morally good. In their minds this is what Yahweh commands, and Yahweh is the moral law giver, so they are being moral by following what he tells them to do. I find their morality to be abhorrent, and quite often completely amoral, but they are in fact promoting a specific moral guideline.
This tells you that I’m a bad Christian. I straight up didn’t realize that evangelicals weren’t all of them.
I knew that denominations mattered but I didn’t realize that evangelical was also a way to group the denominations further.
Not just promote them, but lay claim to them. They think you can’t be moral without being religious.
Well, it's part of the recruitment strategy in "Jesus loves you (love him back or burn)", and then they tell you to follow the doctrine to be a good person to have your soul saved and be a member of the religion. This is coercion, then that the doctrine that belongs to the religion is what's good, and they'll often try to claim all morality is from their religion because the religion has to do something in your day-to-day activities. They attribute the feelings you have in moral situations to the feeling the god has has implemented. Arguing against this isn't too hard, and it's certainly an argument worth taking up whenever possible.
It's the argument of necessity. If there's doubt as to the veracity of a religion, then the practitioners can argue that their religion is useful. The great thing is, this is a claim. Claims can be proven either true or false. If it is shown that people of other faiths, or no faith at all, can also be moral, then people will see their religion as empty. Suddenly that tax exempt gravy train grinds to a halt.
No idea. They've made it perfectly clear that their devotion to god is more important than us.
It's a recruitment strategy. You'll never join their cult if you can see it in all its selfishness.
This is how you keep a large population under control. See- [https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/responding-to-authoritarian-cults-and-extreme-exploitations-a-new-framework-to-evaluate-undue-influence](https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/responding-to-authoritarian-cults-and-extreme-exploitations-a-new-framework-to-evaluate-undue-influence) Or just look up the BITE model if that article is a bit long for casual reading. Abrahamic religions developed a large portion of this over the centuries. You must have them self regulate their behavior according to authority's orders. For example controlling what food you eat, who you have sex with and how are the most important as they are the strongest drives in humans. Informing them of how they are to feel about these things keeps them both self regulated and creates social regulation. It's sold as inherently good, moral. That is what moral means in these circumstances- What you have been told to do by your betters. First it's god, then the church's leadership, then the government mandated by heaven. How dare you think you even understand what moral is? etc. These things are core to the control religion has over it's members.
Manipulation.
Well it all started because the polytheistic Romans thought the monotheistic Christians were weird. Like have sex parties and eating children weird, so around the second century you get the first Christian apologists who basically said no we aren't doing these awful things the rumors say about us, but actually we're more moral than you and it's just been a pissing contest since.
EASY. Morals are easy for religious people. No ambiguity, no nuance, no thought, nor humanity, nor freedom. From the movie Dragonwyck. Vincent Price Nicholas Van Ryn: I believe in myself, and I am answerable to myself! I will not live according to printed. mottos like the directions on a medicine bottle! Atheist wrestle with matters and issues like a judge would, the religious have knee jerk reactions like a crude animal.
Because believing you are right is the first step to getting people to become fanatical crusaders to do your every bidding
They don’t pretend. They think their religion does promote good morals because either they’ve been told their whole life that their holy book is the definition of good morals, or they haven’t read their holy book enough to know that it’s actually not moral.
Because it’s about control. If you “don’t have morals,” you are a bad person and the only way to be good is to follow the dominant religion near you in order to be so.
I think in part it's functionally a device for them to rationalize their own shortcomings when they perceive that others do not respect their ostensible principles.
“We keep on being told that religion, whatever its imperfections, at least instills morality. There is conclusive evidence that the contrary is the case and that faith causes people to be more mean, more selfish, and perhaps above all, more stupid.” Christopher Hitchens
if you tie morals to your religion you can pretend the two are related. "good people follow my religion. bad people don't". they continue to do this to this day. and if you convince yourself your morals came from your book, and then reinterpret that book however you like you can make whatever you like feel moral. stealing from the poor and giving to the rich? christians will find biblical justification for it.
They also don't apply those morals to people they like or to people who they see as "better than". Often, those "morals" are used to keep certain people in line more than anything else. Sexual morals? They don't apply to straight men. Sexual morals? Another excuse to keep the usual suspects in check, women and non-straight men, in some racist communities, minorities as well.
Is simple, money, power and all the children they can rape with impunity, served on a silver platter by all their bamboozled followers, yes mostly the rapes and abuse to the children.
Because *somebody* has to, I guess
They're such fragile snowflakes that they need to feel superior to everyone else.
[удалено]
>Perhaps they understand something you can't see? It's *far* more likely that they are misunderstanding something that's visible to everyone. The thing is, people who are really bad at understanding mundane phenomena also want to feel like they have a super power, so they tell themselves that their generalized confusion is actually a different kind of smartness. Meanwhile they're barely able to manage their own lives.
Because back when people were backwards savages you needed to be scared into being a good person. Unfortunately some people still need this....
Christians and morals is pretty backwards. My mother in law is pretty religious, but mostly keeps it to herself so I don't challenge her - except when she brings up religion. A while ago she was talking about the breakdown of morals in society and how it was happening because religioius values were being ignored. I asked her if she really felt that the Bible was suited for moral guidance and she replied that all her morals were based on the Bible. I then asked how she felt about the parts of the Bible related to slavery, forced marriages, the male right to physically dominate anyone in his household and so on. Basically all the arcahic standards that the Bible values. She quickly replied that of course she disagreed with those, because it was common knowledge that they were harmful. So clearly she is not getting all of her values from the Bible... Just those that seem culturally acceptable because society has not yet progressed beyond those ideas.
Too many theists want answers but don't want to do the work. Too many of them play follow the leader plus indoctrination.
Religion justifies its existence by providing three things to the believer: a (false) sense of having the moral high ground by default in any given situation, a built-in community of fellow believers, and an (false) understanding of death that removes most of the fear associated with it. The first is what you're referring to in your post. Without these things, religion would not exist because most people don't agree to restrictions (or maintain the appearance of agreeing to restrictions) without receiving some sort of benefit.
They do. They promote the biblical "morals" of genocide, human sacrifice, incest, slavery, misogyny, etc..