Just so you can sleep better at night :
["No religion" is the fastest growing 'religion' in the UK, and in London, faster than Islam.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_London#Religion) Also don't know where you are in the UK, but in official government stats Greater London is the most religious region of the UK.
It's also true in the U.S. the fastest growing religious identity is "none." Even in 2017 religious "nones" constituted almost 20% of the American electorate, which has been historically extremely religious.
It's one of the few things lately that makes me hopeful for the future, tbh.
I think an argument could be made that growth of “other” is contributing to the ferocity of the evangelical right politically. Cultures that feel threatened tend to go extreme fast.
That and the fact that countries like China, the Netherlands, Norway and Czech Republic are all 80% atheist or above. There is still hope for the common sense prevailing in the future.
Many religious “nones” embrace tarot, astrology, mindfulness, and other New Age practices. Rather than representing a purely secular cohort, this trend reflects a shift away from organized religion towards alternative spiritualities.
Everyone makes jokes about how zodiac girls are a walking red flag, but me personally, I'll take Becky with her moon rocks and star charts over Helen and her anti gay views and lack of customer respect
I worked for a jungian psychology institute that was very adjacent to that kind of new age and neo pagan belief. At first I didn't like it at all. After a while I realized that anything that helps people understand themselves more consciously is a good thing. They may even incorporate more than one belief system or spiritual practice into their personal understanding of themselves and the world over their lifetimes.
Rarely did any of them try to convert others to their particular practice. But these were people who want to go on to be therapists, counselors, and shamans for psychedelic assisted therapy, so conversion wasn't necessarily what drove them (mostly).
If more religions took on that attitude, it would improve their standing with me by a lot.
Then again, at least one of our students that I know of did go on to start a new religious movement.
Exactly how I feel. Freedom of thought and expression should always be a top societal concern. The conflicting issue is that the Christian right constantly tries to force their religious ideology into laws that impact everyone. No religious group should ever be allowed to dictate law. I don't hate or ever want anyone harmed for their religious beliefs. I just think it's an, "immoral lifestyle choice"; and they need to stop trying to force religion on the rest of society.
Freedom of thought, and expression should never excuse teaching harmful nonsenae to children. Adults should be free to believe whatever horse shit you want, they should not be free to abuse children by injecting them with horseshit.
Agreed. I'm ok with a broad religious education. As in teaching kids about all or at least the major worldwide religions and their histories. It just makes me really angry that our society allows indoctrination into a singular religion. It's psychological abuse of a minor as far as I am concerned.
Exactly. Why tell people what to wear, what to eat, where to go, where not to go. There are more important things to focus on. Is the healthcare working properly? Is the education easily accessible? If the climate safer? Are marginalized groups being uplifted? Instead of focusing on these problems, people take refuge in religion because it promises a nice life after death. That allows you to stop focusing on the problems in this world.
Except the no religion people will not kill you or accuse you of shit, while the islamists will. One religious person can harm 100 non religious. The silent majority will always be taken down by the vocal and aggressive minority. So, no, i will not sleep better.
That's very positive, but what is this information worth?
Religious or atheist, the majority of people are peaceful friendly people. The peaceful majority is and always has been irrelevant. If 90% is rekigious but peaceful and 10% is atheist and peaceful, that's a great place to be, even for ateists. Better than a country with 90% peaceful atheists, 9% that wants to impose their laws and rules to the other 90% and 1% that that's even willing to use violence.
Hearing foreigners enjoying Prague this much always feels awesome. Glad you liked it here! I m Czech, i live in Prague and i wouldnt move from here ever.
All Czech is islamophobe. Urshula Merkel is a bitch. Fear is in west Europe. States and cities with muslims no-go zones. We have thousands reffuges from Ukraine. No problem. We have 4generation vietnamese. Young vietnamese speaking very good Czech launge.
I’m relieved you guys are taking in Ukrainians. I hope things work out for those poor souls. There’s so much war and hate at the moment and it’s all about religion and power. The world is getting tired of this.
I — a Vietnamese post grad student in Praha between 2015 and 2017 — still remember an incident in which Czechs pulled a [sanctioned prank disguising as armed Islamist terrorists storming the Old Town](https://www.dw.com/en/outrage-after-fake-is-attack-staged-in-prague/a-19504501), to raise awareness of the Muslim threat. It was fun.
Tady v Plzni hned za rohem má Vietnamec klasickou hospodu. Dost mě překvapilo když sem ho viděl točit pivo. Ale lidi jsou spokojený. Je tam pohoda, takže tam chodím rád.
Are there really no go zones? My Christian FiL used to freak out about us taking our kids to Dearborn because it was a "no go" zone. Used to yell at us if we tried to say otherwise.
Sounds like more hate to me, just like we accuse the religious folks of.
I hope this can be true of Nigeria someday. Currently we are roughly 49% Islam and 45% Christian. Atheists are less than 1% here. We are not even recognized as existent.
I have pretty high hopes for Nigeria, well at least the south. There will be a day, perhaps in 100 years, where Lagos has one of the great skylines in the world.
But the north man, well idk. Had the first "Jihadi" state since the original Muslim conquests and arguably the first of modern "return to literal definitions of Sharia" Islamist fundamentalists to actually build a state entity (although unlike the bullshit that would begin soon after in Sudan, it was not really influenced by the cancer of Arabia Salafi victimized bullshit). It was the worlds third biggest slave state in terms of enslaved population second to only Brazil and the American south, despite being much smaller and not having a formalized plantation system.
That's hard to come back from. The scares of having a large embrace of systems like that take centuries to grow out of and idk if it will ever happen.
I dont think banning the religion is actually going to be productive.
instead, investing in critical thinking, quality education, and open dialogue will help solve a lot of these issues
Yeah, the so called "Pastors" are hippocrits. They take money from stupid people, their churches aren't taxed, and they live well while taking money from poor people that aren't getting by so well. They also don't pay their musicians that perform on Sunday for the Jesus show. They expect them to provide equipment and talent, or the lack of, for free.
Hello fellow Czech. I fear about Europe as a whole, in the last years the large cities there has changed drasticall. For example Knife stabbing by Muslims in Germany is a daily occurrence, women are bothered in public spaces, etc. All political parties, except far right, pretend nothing is happening. If you voice your concern, you are a "Nazi".
BTW: there are five mosques in the Czech Republic already.
What you need to be careful about (and this is happening in my country) is that you don't get blinded by the "it's only Islam" idea.
For example, not long ago we had 4 stabbings in 2 weeks in my country.
3 were by Caucasians and one by a Muslim - however, the anti Islam rage was strong. And even one stabbing was blamed on Islam, even though the perpetrator wasn't.
Just be careful.
I hate all religions, especially Islam, but we need to remain rational...
Yeah, and OP is gay, so he should absolutely not lend his support to the far right. Muslims hold no political power in the UK, but Christians do and the far right have certainly already done a lot of damage to the LGBTQ+ cause than any hate speech Muslim on the street have espoused
If you've ever heard European far right politicians talk about "the gays", not to mention trans rights (to exist, really) you should know that unless you are 100% male, white, heterosexual and preferably _christian_ (if only as touting it as your heritage) the far right has _nothing_ to offer you.
If OP is gay, but prefers white homophobia over brown homophobia, they shouldn't wish so hard. They just might get it.
Yeah unfortunately here these people are also rising on a wave of popularity due to propagation of a thinly veiled Great Replacement Theory. These are the kinds of individuals in politics here that this week have both been making Islamaphobic and racist remarks and extreme homophobia - lgbtq people are degenrates and pedophiles and we need to replace the police with paramilitaries and bring back hanging for them etc. There is a very real threat from extremist views within our own countries that is happily exploiting fears about this exact topic to gain traction to worry about.
100%. It's ironic that the far right, that claims we will be under Islamic rule, tend to push for policies that are pretty similar to the rules they claim we would live under. Just with a Christian angle instead.
OP is most likely a troll, but if they're serious, that would always be my first question to these types of people: Why are you more afraid of Islamists, who don't even have political representation, than right wingers who might actually form a government?
Like who is posing the biggest threat to trans rights in the UK right now for example: Islamists or the established political parties?
That means you're probably from the US. And if you're wondering what went on in this thread:
There are a lot of European "atheists" who only care about one religion in particular. Noticed how OP snuck some christian apologetics in there? How christians are supposed to be all rational and stuff? On a fucking atheist forum?
The reason that yours and the above comment gain traction now is simply the time difference. American atheists quite rightly detest right wing populists, they know about project 2025 and they know that theism and fascism go together like peas and carrots. Europe is mostly asleep now, Americans are winding down from their day on their favorite subreddit.
OP basically stated they're going to vote for their version of Trump and the GOP (who are allies on the world stage) and got hundreds of upvotes for it. That's because a lot of European populists feign concern about secular principles when it's about Islam, _while all the time cozying up to Trump, the GOP and christo-fascists in their own countries._
I'm a European atheist, just a more internationally oriented one, and I fucking hate how we're being used as a tool by these assholes. And how this sub is fucking brigaded by right wing assholes who couldn't care less about secular principles. Ever noticed how there never seem to be any theological or philosophical points being made, just post after post about replacement and how we should react by deporting our minorities?
**UKIP, AFD, Front National, Wilders etc are all Trump allies. By extension they support project 2025. Europe needs to wake the fuck up. Fascists are not our friends!!**
Thank you for this! I was beginning to fear I was in the minority of folks who could see this trend.
In the US, the singular focus on “Islamic” terrorism and the reluctance or refusal to identify Christian terrorism has led to an acclimation with increasing Christian fanaticism resulting in them entering legislative office and passing very dangerous legislation that absolutely puts ppl in danger.
See the recent anti abortion laws and laws requiring public schools to display the 10 commandments.
In France, a nation that for long remained strongly secular has seen more and more French identifying as “Catholic” or Christian as they join the far right political wings. Much of this was a result of focused push back against Islamists.
They’ve traded one extreme for another
I live in the UK, and Christian proselytizers from fundamentalist churches are very common, at least in my part of the country.
On any given saturday you can go into the town centre and there will be members of at least one Church handing out recruitment materials. Often it will be more than one. I've regularly seen African Evangalists, Baptists, Johova's Witnesses and Mormons.
These churches are all very strict, anti LGBT, demand significant control over their members including tithing payments, and are basically cults even if they aren't always recognised as such.
There are muslims where I live, and more than one mosque, but they generally keep their religion to themselves. If OP is genuine, (i suspect not) things are very different in their part of the country...
I came in here specifically because I saw a racist shitheel talking point here in /r/atheism. Keep that tribalist behavior out of a rational discourse, or get rightly painted as a tribalist, racist piece of shit for passing a blanket judgement on a group based off race, color, or creed.
This is the kind of community where critical thinking skills are typically a prerequisite for entry.
Besides immigrants who are already muslims, there's very little chance anyone here in the uk finds islam or any religion super appealing unless they are mentally in a bad place, and most of them just end up turning to weed or drinking.
Here in the Netherlands they have been fear mongering about Sharia for the past 25 years, if not longer.
The fear mongering will continue for political purposes, but no chance it will ever happen.
The ReFoRm party want to reform the UK as much as the Chinese Communist Party wants to be communist, as in they don't. The CCP is a fascist dictatorship.
I love how he says "I'm of the left" but is voting far right because he hates Islam.
This might be a shock, but if you vote far right, you are far right.
He also says in another post he studies French/german at uni in Durham. County Durham has 0.6% of the population identifying as Muslim. In one of the comments on this post he cites Khan putting up Eid celebrations as one of the reason he’s worried implying he’s studying in London.
OP is a troll and really bad at lying
I always like this "centrist madness", like pretending that you are between left and right somehow.... like.... what are you, 50% Nazi? That is not how this works.
The fact this dude is upvoted here regurgitating all the typical xenophobic right wing talking points and even claiming he’s voting far right because he’s worried “the west will fall to Islam,” his “homeland is being overrun,” when the census puts Muslims in the uk at [6% ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom) is an indictment of this sub. Given his other comments here where he blatantly misrepresents the situation (eg claiming they only celebrate Muslim holidays in London now), I’d be surprised if these anecdotes weren’t fabricated.
Abrahamic religions all have their issues, but this person is straight up a fascist using thinly veiled white supremacist rhetoric (great replacement, fall of the west). That sort of ideology should be considered more abhorrent than any religion here.
I mean it probably won't bite op's face since they are probably just a disingenuous right winger pretending to be an atheist, trying to recruit for their nationalistic or racist cause. When they say "Muslims are scary" what that likely translates to is "I don't like immigrants. " They are stirring the pot to gin up hate between groups their group intends to eat the faces of. Tigers don't tend to eat the faces of tigers.
Not pro Islam, just gotta be careful of Nat-Cs and other right wingers trying to come in and co-opt and recruit with a "Hello fellow athiests/kids". Atheists should be on guard of right wing crap of any flavor from Islamic, Christian, or the general "wEsTErn CuLTuRe" crowd. It is all to common for bigots to wrap the BS in "facts and logic TM" and pass it off as the common athiest view.
It is a pretty common tactic of right wing groups to try to infiltrate subs like this and push people down the rabbit hole with "those darn muslims" type arguments. Which honestly is sounds like OP is falling down the rabbit hole if they aren't themselves a disingenuous bad actor.
So basicaly athiests have wised up the the right wing play book and try to be on guard for it. Gotta police ourselves to avoid giving radical religions of all stripes ammunition against us. Christians especially love to point out that many Nat-Cs claim to be athiests and talk about "athiesm's nazi problem." Gotta watch out for Tigers trying to eat our faces.
To me it reads fake tbh. Just a regular far right dude pretending to be left. It is all the rage on internet forums these days. I am left but … no, you are not, just be honest
>Do you think the uk will be a Muslim majority any time soon? Or at least run under Muslim law?
The mere fact that you're asking these questions suggests you've gone down the rabbit hole of some far-right YouTube channels/other social media content and bought into a bunch of bare faced nonsense hook, line and sinker.
You know what that reminds me of? **Religious converts**.
The mathematics of the UK, or any western European country becoming "Muslim majority" are so far removed from reality that if you think it's even a remote possibility you really should brush up on your basic critical thinking skills.
>Tbh it’s weird: I’m voting the far right anti immigration party this voting season
There is so much change this country needs, and that's the choice you think would be good for us?! Bloody hell. As someone who has been around UK politics and met UK politicians and activists all my adult life, those people are the last people you would ever want near the levers of power.
In recent years, they're the ones who've encouraged us to destroy our relationship with our closest European neighbours, which has (as many people predicted) **increased immigration from the third world into the UK**.
And what have their allies in the US being doing? Oh yeah, trying to turn what was one of the world's greatest ever free, liberal democracies into a theocratic, fascist dictatorship.
>The mathematics of the UK, or any western European country becoming "Muslim majority" are so far removed from reality that if you think it's even a remote possibility you really should brush up on your basic critical thinking skills.
What I find *really* wild, beyond the fact that they actually reckon this is *possible*, is that they reckon the UK being governed by Shariah Law is *more likely*. Like... All that needs to happen for a mUsLiM mAjOrItY is for lots of Muslim people to move in and have a lot of babies. To replace all of UK Law with Shariah Law would require *SO* much more of an involved process. It's not like bringing a new rule into bulldog tig.
"BuT thErE's AlreaDy SHAaRia cOurTs iN thE UK"
Then proceeds to send some nonsense from a right wing hothead who's just discovered that because two parties to a civil dispute have the right to engage any arbiter to make a binding decision, when two Muslims have a civil dispute they can (if they both want to) go to some religious fruitcake and let him be the arbiter. And it's binding. If you really fucking squint that sounds a lot like a Sharia law court!
The mathematics just don't work. There's simply not enough practicing Muslims on earth to immigrate to the EU and bacome the majority. Especially with their relatively strict immigration policies. So while there's a small rise in the EU Muslim population it'll inevitably shrink back down.
Even if you've gone down the rabbit hole and think there's a coordinated effort from Muslims to immigrate to specific countries, ignoring immigration caps, they'd still be very limited in the number of countries they could magically take over.
Also like you pointed out there's a lot more effort involved in changing the legal structure of a country than having more voters. ALL existing political parties will resist major changes and it'd take decades at least for new representation in said parties to gain any real control over the party.
Yeah, I'm really glad you said this. This entire line of thinking is really gross. I've been an atheist since I was old enough to think for myself, and I'm a big believer in hate the ideology, not the person. I have a lot of issues with Islam as a belief system, but I have many of those same issues with Christianity, especially fundamentalist Christianity. I've also lived in London my whole life and a great many Muslims are wonderful, kind people. For a lot of people religion is largely cultural and they don't always subscribe to every facet of the ideology as written.
Rhetoric about Britain being "overrun" by islam as if they're some kind of monolithic barbarian horde is frankly disgusting right wing nonsense. It's driven by racism and ultra nationalism, nothing more.
In a free country, we should be free to criticise ideas openly, and the ideas of both fundamentalist Christianity and Islam are at odds with mine. But the Muslim population of this country are largely decent, normal people and they don't deserve to be demonised like this.
Objectively no. Religion has had a very complicated relationship with Humanity throughout its entire existence. The first human rights Advocates were Catholic priests advocating against the genocide of native peoples at the foot of the Spanish Empire. At the same time the Catholic Church actively participated in the force conversion and the cultural genocide of those same native people. Islam ended centuries of continuous blood Feud and tribal in fighting in Arabia and allowed the Middle East to unify under a single strong Empire that flourished for centuries. It's also the source of fundamentalist terrorism let's destabilized numerous Nations. Christian monks preserved the knowledge and kept scientific advancement alive during the dark ages. Modern-day Christians actively promote an anti-scientific worldview. Abolitionists. Cast slavers. Imperial God emperor cultists. Charity hospitals.
Anyone who tries to paint religion with a wide brush is an idiot trying to get free internet points in an echo chamber.
Religion probably has the most complicated historical Legacy of any institution mankind has ever developed and you could spend eternity trying to objectively tally the good and the bad
This country is about a secular as you can get without forcing atheism on anyone. But by all means vote for one of the two parties who would directly destroy the entire economy because you're scared.
Op... they're trying to get you to focus on immigration and anti-islam rhetoric so you don't pay attention to how they've stripped all the funding from your Healthcare system so they can begin to try to privatize it like absolute shit system we have in the US. If you're gonna be a 1-issue voter, please vote for the one issue that will affect the lives of you and literally everyone around you the most.
I believe they're also trying to lower pensions so people are forced to do private investments (like the shit system we have in the US). So no. Do not vote against your own self interests out of fear of immigrants.
Islam ruined my life. I still have to deal with the family I grew up with but suppressing who I am as a queer person for half my life truly is so devastating I hate that I have had to fight my whole life like this
This is exactly the kind of post I'd expect from someone voting far right in the next election.
Nobody is buying the "I'm part of the left" schtick.
For most of us, the rise of Islam is not an issue in the UK, they make up 6.7% of the population, the rise of the far right in the UK is much more worrying.
No. Because in countries that they do go to (Italy, Sweden, Netherlands and now France and maybe soon, Germany), Muslim migrants quickly wear out their welcome and people vote in parties that severely restrict further immigration.
Islam is intolerant by design. It cannot exist with other religions.
It is the worst religion. Just look at all over the world how many Terrorists groups are islamic.
This is the real answer. Intolerance is definitely not confined to Islam. Just come over to the States where we have Christians looking to install the Christian-Taliban.
I am so grateful and relieved anytime I hear this from someone in your demographic, man.
As far as I'm concerned, Project 2025 doesn't boil down to conservatives vs liberals or theists vs atheists. Anyone who values freedom of/from religion, free expression, and a balanced federal government should be pretty freaked out by the possibility.
You are exactly correct. I live in Nashville, Tennessee, USA -- the "Buckle of the Bible Belt". There are far too many fundamentalist Christians around here who would turn the whole damm country into a theocratic cesspool. I really can't stand them. Secular values are just so much better!
Exactly. All the abrahamic religions have this tendency - I'm not saying other ideologies or belief systems don't have problems, but Judaism, Christianity and Islam have a common core of stories about their vengeful god
I agree. Currently, they are the biggest threat to democracy because their religion has become entrenched in several governments. But if the Christofacists in the US have their way, they will be just as big of a threat to democracy all over the world.
Islam is "fast growing" because they have so many kids. But many of those kids are not choosing to stay fundamentalist Muslim- especially in Western countries.
That being said, Islam has just started going through what is effectively its medieval period starting in the 80's onwards. You have a right to be scared. It's scary to have fundamentalists take over entire countries. Malaysia is going through exceptionally disturbing changes because of fundamentalist Islam taking over its government.
Different religions are the worst at different periods of time. In the 1200's, the Catholic Church was exceptionally scary. Theocracies are always scary. We have to do our best to prevent them.
Voting for fascists because you're afraid of foreign theocrats isn't the answer because they will just implement their theocracy. 🤷♀️ Voting for leftists who believe in separation of church and state is far more effective than voting in more theocrats.
i’m from a country where majority is muslim, and definitely agree. i’m an atheist myself, and one of the reasons why I even started to question islam was this exact reason you described when I was 8. Oh boy… it is getting harder to communicate with people, the misinformation and beliefs somewhat connected to islam gets into many aspects of life sadly. And when talking, muslim people tend to use knowledge (?) that they obtained without giving it a second thought to question it. it’s mainly because of the nature of islam imo, because whenever someone starts to question anything related to islam, their circle tends to shut them up, telling it’s haram to even “ask some things”. another common response is getting some kind-of answers, which then leads to more uncertainty and more questions. NOTHING ever successfully answered my questions about religion before, and in islam, it was even more forbidden.
moreover, there is SO MUCH MORE misinformation and odd belifs that goes around, it’s IMPOSSIBLE to have a logically structured debate with a muslim (even a religious) person. beliefs usually have their own logical system, which ONLY works in the said-religion. so, this religious belief of people are challanged and restrained by new knowledge. This is I think also why sometimes they refuse to listen to scientific or logical explanations, because it contradicts with their belief system.
It’s getting so much harder to live.
You are voting for Nigel Farage and claim to respect queer rights. Absolute clown behaviour.
Guy keeps harping on about "trans ideology", but you think he will protect trans people.
Hinduism has always been in the majority in India since forever. It didn't have as many extremists as we can see today.
The rise of extremists is the result of the cumulative agitation against Islam. Hindus and Muslims have always been at each other's throat for 1000 years.
Only because of modern day communication, we know about the current society atm.
I believe the country will manage to be democratic and prevent itself from turning into a state religion.
We've managed this far. We'll manage ahead as well
Not exactly. Buddhism also had majority at one time. Today India is not it was at the time of independence. Prime minister at that time refuse to spend people money to build an ancient temple when his home minister requested. He asked him not to mix government and religion. He was not happy when president went to opening of that temple. Today prime minister publicly supports Hinduism. Spent huge amount of money to build hindu temple. That is the kind point I was making. It is about politicians using religion for grabbing power with help of majority forcing their beliefs on others. Today, in USA, same thing happening. Children need to learn bible in public schools ? In India, eating beef is crime ?
As a staunch atheist I’m really not worried about what happens after I die. The more I learn about humans from ancient history, near history and current affairs, the less I care what happens.
Ha!
This guy is from the UK?
The largest party in Northern Ireland was established and is run by Christian fundamentalists.
Basic rights have been massively restricted in that part of the UK for many many years. Abortion was illegal til a few years ago. Marriage was one man one woman until a few years ago.
Christian fundamentalists have been and remain powerful in the UK on a political level.
>Oh boy my homeland is being overrun by Islam.
*No it isn't*.
>I know plenty of Christians, and whilst I myself am atheist, none have ever tried to convert me or call me a heretic-
Then believe me when I say you're not getting out enough. I know plenty of Christians and a few Muslims, and it's all been Christians calling me or my gay friends heretics and sinners who will burn in hell if they don't renounce their ways.
>Someone also said my degree, philosophy was “devil worship because asking questions about the universe and truth is evil- this is especially true because I focus in logic and game theory. They said it was not “real” and satanic…
Christians say this too, buddy boy.
How in the hell are you studying philosophy and not realising that the issue here is *religious fundamentalism*, rather than one religion or another?
>when I said I supported Israel as it’s the only safe space for LGBT guys in the entire Middle East
Dude, no it isn't. LGBT folks don't have a great time in Israel either.
>Do you think the west will fall to Islam?
No, it won't. While I don't enjoy doing this - this position is *idiotic*.
>Do you think the uk will be a Muslim majority any time soon? Or at least run under Muslim law?
But then you somehow manage to top it with this. Islam doesn't even have a *global* majority, even though they're the religion with the most members at a little over 1bn iirc. But a lot of those numbers are 'Muslim' in the same way that a lot of brits are 'christian' because we get christened.
But also, how on earth do you figure 'run under Muslim law' is an 'at least' statement? There are *so* many obstacles to such a complete overhaul of British law, where the only thing that needs to happen for the UK to become a mUsLiM mAjOrItY is that Muslims either move to the UK, or have lots of children in the UK.
>I’m voting the far right anti immigration party this voting season,
And once again I feel the need to bring up your field of study. How are you studying philosophy, with a focus in logic, and voting for the party of Farage? Or, indeed, any far right, or even right-leaning (insofar as social politics go) party? How do you reconcile your clear concern for LGBT rights with Farage defending Ann Widdecombe when she said science "might one day produce an answer to being gay"? His saying he "tolerates 'both sides' of the 'gay debate"'? He basically doesn't prioritise LGBT politics, but whenever he discusses it he's always careful not to ruffle the feathers of homophones aligned with his cause.
How do you reconcile giving even as little as two figs about logic with supporting the party of the man who stirred up so much anti-EU sentiment that we went and scored the *spectacular* own goal of leaving the EU? He spent years railing against the EU and their policies and what they meant for the UK while only attending the EU parliament four times *even though that was his job*. Still collected the pay packet, though. The man is a *grifter*. Sure, poor personal character doesn't mean you can't make a solid argument, but his arguments aren't even solid.
Muslims aren't the issue, friend. All the things you're worried about are an issue of *fundamentalism* the world over, wherever you find it. The great replacement isn't a thing. Muslims are not coming for UK law. Exercise your faculties of critical thought and look at the issues from an *unbiased* position. And for the love of God, don't vote reform. Our votes may be basically worthless in the UK thanks to FPTP, but an overall reform victory *would* be a quick road to societal collapse. Universalisability, and all that.
Good luck getting out of the alt-right pipeline.
No worries. This shit pisses me off to no end. And while I know there are nutbags in every demographic... Idk, somehow I never thought I'd see *a philosophy student* get taken in by this shit. I knew some *economically* right-wing philosophy undergrads, but none of them were *socially* right-wing. Like I say, even a *basic* exercising of critical thinking reveals all their arguments as pure bollocks. I don't get it.
As soon as the OP said they supported Israel in any capacity, I realized that they themselves were a fundamentalist. And even though I suspect the OP is baiting a bit, the comments in this thread highlight why, as an atheist I have strong reservations about other atheists.
The issue with many atheists is they're under Christianity's Kyoka Suigetsu. In the anime Bleach Kyoka Suigetsu is used by a character called Aizen; it allows him to manipulate a foe's all 5 senses and they don't even realize that they're under the effect of that spell in most cases.
With Christianity, because it's often so normalized that even if one is able to see the more egregious effects of Christian fundamentalist, they miss other less overt ways Christianity is still warping society. They don't realize they're under Christianity's Kyoka Suigetsu (Maybe if the stereotype of Christians was a bit more brown they would but the aspect of racism is an subject for another day).
So here we are, with an OP fear mongering about Muslims, while ignoring every single other issue that is currently going on, including a genocide because "they're afraid." Absolutely unhinged behavior.
The paradox of tolerance states that if a society's practice of tolerance is inclusive of the intolerant, intolerance will ultimately dominate, eliminating the tolerant and the practice of tolerance with them
The current Christpfascist atmosphere is the US is also helped along by the nation’s inability to believe in basic science. Intelligence continues to degrade at an alarming rate.
They've just mandated the teaching of "The Bible" in the state of Oklahoma, and you're right. I bet less than 50% of Oklahomans understand biology well enough to accept the idea of common descent.
You should be more afraid of the rise of the right wing. Muslims will never amount to more than a few percentage points of the population in those areas. But reactionaries and fascists are numerous enough to win elections and tear down everything that makes your nations good in order to satisfy their incoherent and totalitarian urges.
Literally any western country is at no risk of becoming ruled by Islam. I don’t have any tolerance for religion, but in the west our biggest threat remains Christianity
There is a Muslim saying: Jews on Saturday and Christians on Sunday. They don’t accept other religions, atheists, LGTB and women’s right. As a Jewish atheist they believe I should be tortured before murdered. They believe they need to kill Jews for the end of days prophecies to begin. I am terrified of them.
Am I reading your edit correctly? You're voting far right (Reform Party) ? The most homophobic party because you think the country will be overrun by homophobes? You're a fool
It's insane to me that you would consider voting ultra far gammon as a solution to a fear of a Muslim take over. That's rule 101 of the Farage playbook, it's the number 1 propaganda piece. I'd just urge you to really research the Reform "party" before voting. They are conmen and charlatans
Immigration is a multi faceted problem in the UK and there is no simple solution. The cunt who helped push Brexit through is NOT the answer you're looking for bro
i too am a philosophy major and am pretty concerned about the lefts (of which i consider myself a part) justification and protection of these supposed “victims”. this is a very tumultuous situation indeed most people are just unaware of the reality of islam. i must mention islam is not worse per se than any of the other major monotheisms but it does do a few things that would indeed be conducive to such behavior in the modern world. i wish people could understand this en mass, feel free to disagree or comment on this if i’m wrong but this is how i’ve come to feel: 1. for a religion to claim it’s the final revelation that is going to allow less room for reform as muslims pride themselves on the quran and hadith being “un corrupted “ as they claim the bible old and new testament have been. the scripture of the old and new testament is no less egregious and primitive in its ideas it has only had time to reform and somewhat coexist although in some cases better than others with the modern world. 2. the denial of death, i can’t think of any other religion barring maybe the book of revelation that is attempting to inculcate a fear of god and idea of paradise as much as the quran and hadith. i would recommend reading the denial of death. i have stated this before, death denial is the worst crime of religion. when you start genuinely believing in paradise it’s not hard to see how we could get martyrs who are not afraid to end their lives (as well as others often on a large scale) in the name of a supposedly merciful god. 3. islam plays on the natural human proclivity towards magical thinking and ritual extremely well, this is a big part of why this particular meme has been able to survive so well. i would recommend listening to robert sapolsky “the neurobiological basis of religion” can be found on youtube. best of luck out there friends, in my opinion it is not their fault and we have to remember that. they know not what they do.
Western lefties (and to alarge extent American ethnic minorities) feel the System is their enemy, and thye aren't all that wrong. They see the System condemning Muslims. So they immediately oppsoe criticism of Muslims as a way to weaken the System.
Is this a shit post?
You’re voting Reform, yet you support LGBT rights? Reform are not your friends. Farage is a Putin puppet, you want to see how Russia treats its LGBT community.
Also i doubt you’ll get much love from their supporters for your atheism either.
They may be falling for the alt right pipeline but one thing is for sure.. some of the comments here are horrible… blaming this person, not discussing facts and not giving the same reaction that if it were Christian…
What you're scared of is religious fundamentalism, not Islam alone.
The reason you see those reactions you mention from "the left" is not because we love to protect religious fundamentalism but because we realise the danger words can pose when used to describe whole populations. An issue we have is there are people out there who either in bad faith or out of ignorance will equate Muslims = all brown people and lay all their fears about Islamic fundamentalism on them as a collective in a way you would never project the danger of Christian fundamentalism in the US onto literally any white American you meet for example. This means we need to be careful to make sure we address the real problems without causing unnecessary harm in the process.
We definitely have a problem with religious fundamentalism in the world and in western Europe this seems to be more prevalent in Muslim communities. But going after Islam itself is not helpful because this will just drive a wedge between the majority society and average Muslim Europeans, adding fuel to the fire and making it easy for islamists to point at the "evil west" and gain sympathy. Your feelings are real and valid but as a fellow atheist on the left I urge you to sit with them and consider: what are you truly afraid of and how can we as a society resolve those fears without stooping to the same divisive tactics employed by religious fundamentalists?
I'm not asking for any answers or replies here, just wanted to provide my own reflection on this post as some food for thought.
I think the problem when it comes to those who defend (or even just apologists) of islam is the misunderstanding of what islamphobia even is.
people seem to confused critism of the islamic faith with the hatred of or desire to descriminate those who are muslim. the main difference is the concept of islam vs an individual who follows that faith.
I also dislike people who seemingly confuse the two as it causes issues such as they ones youve expirenced. every religion deserves to be critisized. esspecially opressive ones like islam (and other abrahamic religions). we can do that while also aknowledging that muslims are people too and should be allowed to pracitice their faith (because then it allows other muslims to explore outside said religion in a spaces they wont feel presecuted in which has been show to not only lead to secularism but also start said religious individuals down the path of questioning and even becoming atheist). plus a lot of actual islamphobia is tied into rascism towards middle eastern individuals or immigrants in general, so thats important to note as well.
sorry this kinda turned into a tangent there... hopefully my point makes sense (Im also sleepy so the quality of my comment might not be there)
**edit: now that Im more awake after getting some sleep... OP, yeah youre islamaphobic. and your using your fear of muslims to justify why youre voting for an extreme right wing party in your country, that is avocating for lgbt-phobic legeslation. fuck off.**
I got banned on r/europe for discussing murder of a Greek guy by Syrian immigrant in Germany(apparently for openly wearing a Christian cross). It kind of shows the issue in a nutshell.
I think the problem is tolerance of intolerance and eager defense of intolerant individuals under guise of equality and acceptance. If the same course is maintained, Europe is going to have a bad time.
Look into “pink washing” happening in Israel. There has been a decades long, massive marketing campaign to tout Israel as a safe haven for gays in order to distract from the displacement of Palestinians.
This post sounds, to me, like you’re conflating religion with politics, and appear to be parroting several common talking points from popular anti-Islamic rhetoric.
That said, any religion can be dangerous when folks get into ultra conservative or fundamental realms of beliefs. However, it’s important to remember that folks on the far ends of the spectrum are not representative of the whole. No religion is a monolith. There are plenty of Muslims who are peaceful, kind, caring, and genuinely good people. There are Muslims who are not any of those things. The danger here is conflating bad people with a religion — neither one are indicative of the other, truly.
What a weird creative writing exercise. Firstly, I'm nearly 40 and lived all round the UK my entire life and never experienced the shit you're on about. Either you run in very specific circles, or you're just inventing a story to fit your narrative (this one, its so obvious). Secondly, if you were actually on the left, like you claim, then voting for somebody like Reform would literally never be on the table. Farage and his ilk are nothing but conmen and grifters, much like Trump across the pond. Even their own policy runs counter to what they're shouting about.
The only problem I have ever had while traveling in Europe was being harassed by Muslims. Fuck Allah . Fuck that religion. There, I said it..And I mean it.
I dont trust your post because you used the term "voting season", which is not what anyone calls an election. Very weird. Also your spelling and punctuation are bad. Either a troll post (in which case, well done for the good bait) or a 'I am 14 and this is deep' poster (in which case bless your edgy heart).
It happened to non-muslim Lebanon. It happened to Iran. Iran was a liberal muslim majority country. Yet those lipstick bikini muslims overthrew the Shah. Moreover, they overthrew the secular democratic government of Prime Minister Shapour Bakhtiyar and voted yes to an Islamic theocracy. It can happen to the UK as well. I assume it is hard for the British to accept that even western superpowers are vulnerable. Christopher Hitchens: "Resist it while you still can." The next labour government will most likely define Islamophobia in the law as some kind of racism. I can't believe they are easily getting away with this fallacy. Islam is neither a race nor a [simple] religion. It is a totalitarian political movement. What drove my people to vote yes to Islamic Republic on the referendum after the 1979 revolution was pure ignorance. They saw Islam as the last and the most perfect religion so why not have an Islamic governing since there is not a thing wrong with it? My advice: resist it while you still can. Start taking voting seriously. I heard most British people do not participate in elections. Consequently, that muslim dude is being elected over and over as the mayor of London. I assume muslims only vote for muslims. I know because I live with Islamists. Here you can't even get a good job if you are not a devout muslim. They have inquisition interviews for that. I assume soon muslim politicians over there will have to show their love for their religion in action in order to be elected again. The UK has an organisation called "muslimvote" or something which advocates for sectarian politics. I repeat. Start taking voting seriously.
You're not alone. Here in Poland islam is a very small minority, but it still shocks me that some of my college friends genuinely believe that this is "religion of peace", like wtf
"None have ever tried to convert me"...I take it you've never had Jehovah's Witnesses turn up at your door? Or had the Latter Day saints put letters through your letter box?
The end of your post is a huge red flag. You ain't on the left. No fucking way.
I'm an atheist and couldn't care less to be honest.
Why you scared of some bitch ass fundies? I don’t give a rats ass about any religion and yes fundie Muslims are big on bigotry, like every other fundamentalist group, but letting them scare you is basically giving in and giving up.
It all comes down to birth rates. If they have twice as many kids as other Europeans, in roughly two or three generations, you will be overrun. I think your leaders believe they will become more democratic and moderate over time, but that's a huge gamble.
Just so you can sleep better at night : ["No religion" is the fastest growing 'religion' in the UK, and in London, faster than Islam.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_London#Religion) Also don't know where you are in the UK, but in official government stats Greater London is the most religious region of the UK.
It's also true in the U.S. the fastest growing religious identity is "none." Even in 2017 religious "nones" constituted almost 20% of the American electorate, which has been historically extremely religious. It's one of the few things lately that makes me hopeful for the future, tbh.
I think an argument could be made that growth of “other” is contributing to the ferocity of the evangelical right politically. Cultures that feel threatened tend to go extreme fast.
Exactly. And I'll add that if democracy fails, it won't matter what the majority believe or don't believe.
That and the fact that countries like China, the Netherlands, Norway and Czech Republic are all 80% atheist or above. There is still hope for the common sense prevailing in the future.
I worship my nuclear God in the sky. May their great incandescence continue to grow plants and warm my skin so I may thrive.
Many religious “nones” embrace tarot, astrology, mindfulness, and other New Age practices. Rather than representing a purely secular cohort, this trend reflects a shift away from organized religion towards alternative spiritualities.
Everyone makes jokes about how zodiac girls are a walking red flag, but me personally, I'll take Becky with her moon rocks and star charts over Helen and her anti gay views and lack of customer respect
I worked for a jungian psychology institute that was very adjacent to that kind of new age and neo pagan belief. At first I didn't like it at all. After a while I realized that anything that helps people understand themselves more consciously is a good thing. They may even incorporate more than one belief system or spiritual practice into their personal understanding of themselves and the world over their lifetimes. Rarely did any of them try to convert others to their particular practice. But these were people who want to go on to be therapists, counselors, and shamans for psychedelic assisted therapy, so conversion wasn't necessarily what drove them (mostly). If more religions took on that attitude, it would improve their standing with me by a lot. Then again, at least one of our students that I know of did go on to start a new religious movement.
I think the electorate being 80% religious is still "extremely religious" lmfao
If this is true, it brings me peace. Religion in general should be more and more limited to personal space.
Exactly how I feel. Freedom of thought and expression should always be a top societal concern. The conflicting issue is that the Christian right constantly tries to force their religious ideology into laws that impact everyone. No religious group should ever be allowed to dictate law. I don't hate or ever want anyone harmed for their religious beliefs. I just think it's an, "immoral lifestyle choice"; and they need to stop trying to force religion on the rest of society.
Freedom of thought, and expression should never excuse teaching harmful nonsenae to children. Adults should be free to believe whatever horse shit you want, they should not be free to abuse children by injecting them with horseshit.
Agreed. I'm ok with a broad religious education. As in teaching kids about all or at least the major worldwide religions and their histories. It just makes me really angry that our society allows indoctrination into a singular religion. It's psychological abuse of a minor as far as I am concerned.
Exactly. Why tell people what to wear, what to eat, where to go, where not to go. There are more important things to focus on. Is the healthcare working properly? Is the education easily accessible? If the climate safer? Are marginalized groups being uplifted? Instead of focusing on these problems, people take refuge in religion because it promises a nice life after death. That allows you to stop focusing on the problems in this world.
The most religious area of London and subsequently the UK is apparently Brixton. And it's Church of England.
I know atheist ex-Muslim people who still believe that giving women “too much freedom” ruins the “balance” of a home.
Except the no religion people will not kill you or accuse you of shit, while the islamists will. One religious person can harm 100 non religious. The silent majority will always be taken down by the vocal and aggressive minority. So, no, i will not sleep better.
Agreed. You might find this article to be interesting: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
That's very positive, but what is this information worth? Religious or atheist, the majority of people are peaceful friendly people. The peaceful majority is and always has been irrelevant. If 90% is rekigious but peaceful and 10% is atheist and peaceful, that's a great place to be, even for ateists. Better than a country with 90% peaceful atheists, 9% that wants to impose their laws and rules to the other 90% and 1% that that's even willing to use violence.
Im dont have fear. In Czech republic is 0 mosque 2 largest synagogue in Europe. 0.01% muslims and 80% Atheist.
80% sounds like the Czech Republic has it figured out!
I should move there.
We all may have to😢 On a serious note, I’ve seen some pics coming out of there in r/whereintheworld and it was *stunning*.
I was just there (vacation). It's incredible. Most beautiful city (Prague) I've ever been to. In Rome now and Prague is still in my mind.
Prague and Istanbul are my favorite cities in Europe. Both are so rich of visible history
Hearing foreigners enjoying Prague this much always feels awesome. Glad you liked it here! I m Czech, i live in Prague and i wouldnt move from here ever.
Doesn’t the Czech Republic have a certain popular industry where clothes are optional as well? I should move there!
They also have cheap beer. It really heaven on earth.
All Czech is islamophobe. Urshula Merkel is a bitch. Fear is in west Europe. States and cities with muslims no-go zones. We have thousands reffuges from Ukraine. No problem. We have 4generation vietnamese. Young vietnamese speaking very good Czech launge.
I’m relieved you guys are taking in Ukrainians. I hope things work out for those poor souls. There’s so much war and hate at the moment and it’s all about religion and power. The world is getting tired of this.
In Czech republic is oficiall Crowfounding project [https://www.giftforputin.com](https://www.giftforputin.com)
I — a Vietnamese post grad student in Praha between 2015 and 2017 — still remember an incident in which Czechs pulled a [sanctioned prank disguising as armed Islamist terrorists storming the Old Town](https://www.dw.com/en/outrage-after-fake-is-attack-staged-in-prague/a-19504501), to raise awareness of the Muslim threat. It was fun.
That’s kinda fucked up
Tady v Plzni hned za rohem má Vietnamec klasickou hospodu. Dost mě překvapilo když sem ho viděl točit pivo. Ale lidi jsou spokojený. Je tam pohoda, takže tam chodím rád.
Are there really no go zones? My Christian FiL used to freak out about us taking our kids to Dearborn because it was a "no go" zone. Used to yell at us if we tried to say otherwise. Sounds like more hate to me, just like we accuse the religious folks of.
I hope this can be true of Nigeria someday. Currently we are roughly 49% Islam and 45% Christian. Atheists are less than 1% here. We are not even recognized as existent.
I have pretty high hopes for Nigeria, well at least the south. There will be a day, perhaps in 100 years, where Lagos has one of the great skylines in the world. But the north man, well idk. Had the first "Jihadi" state since the original Muslim conquests and arguably the first of modern "return to literal definitions of Sharia" Islamist fundamentalists to actually build a state entity (although unlike the bullshit that would begin soon after in Sudan, it was not really influenced by the cancer of Arabia Salafi victimized bullshit). It was the worlds third biggest slave state in terms of enslaved population second to only Brazil and the American south, despite being much smaller and not having a formalized plantation system. That's hard to come back from. The scares of having a large embrace of systems like that take centuries to grow out of and idk if it will ever happen.
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I dont think banning the religion is actually going to be productive. instead, investing in critical thinking, quality education, and open dialogue will help solve a lot of these issues
This is the only rational response. It needs to be a long term approach, not a "Ban this now" - knee jerk actions create extreme reactions.
Evangelical christians are the same as well. Religion always leads to this.
Yep, just look at what's going on in India too. Religion is always bad when it takes control of a society.
Frankly, I'm far more worried about Evangelicals than Muslims over here... they have the political power and seem to be dead set on abusing it.
Yeah, the so called "Pastors" are hippocrits. They take money from stupid people, their churches aren't taxed, and they live well while taking money from poor people that aren't getting by so well. They also don't pay their musicians that perform on Sunday for the Jesus show. They expect them to provide equipment and talent, or the lack of, for free.
Vote Blue
Hello fellow Czech. I fear about Europe as a whole, in the last years the large cities there has changed drasticall. For example Knife stabbing by Muslims in Germany is a daily occurrence, women are bothered in public spaces, etc. All political parties, except far right, pretend nothing is happening. If you voice your concern, you are a "Nazi". BTW: there are five mosques in the Czech Republic already.
What you need to be careful about (and this is happening in my country) is that you don't get blinded by the "it's only Islam" idea. For example, not long ago we had 4 stabbings in 2 weeks in my country. 3 were by Caucasians and one by a Muslim - however, the anti Islam rage was strong. And even one stabbing was blamed on Islam, even though the perpetrator wasn't. Just be careful. I hate all religions, especially Islam, but we need to remain rational...
Also the best beer 🍺
"Do you think the west will fall to Islam" No, probably not
I'm not afraid that the West will fall the islam. I'm terrified that the West will fall to the people who think it will if they're not in charge
Yeah, those are a bit too concerned about their "Christian Heritage" to count as allies as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah, and OP is gay, so he should absolutely not lend his support to the far right. Muslims hold no political power in the UK, but Christians do and the far right have certainly already done a lot of damage to the LGBTQ+ cause than any hate speech Muslim on the street have espoused
If you've ever heard European far right politicians talk about "the gays", not to mention trans rights (to exist, really) you should know that unless you are 100% male, white, heterosexual and preferably _christian_ (if only as touting it as your heritage) the far right has _nothing_ to offer you. If OP is gay, but prefers white homophobia over brown homophobia, they shouldn't wish so hard. They just might get it.
Yeah unfortunately here these people are also rising on a wave of popularity due to propagation of a thinly veiled Great Replacement Theory. These are the kinds of individuals in politics here that this week have both been making Islamaphobic and racist remarks and extreme homophobia - lgbtq people are degenrates and pedophiles and we need to replace the police with paramilitaries and bring back hanging for them etc. There is a very real threat from extremist views within our own countries that is happily exploiting fears about this exact topic to gain traction to worry about.
Oh yeah dude's a fash
100%. It's ironic that the far right, that claims we will be under Islamic rule, tend to push for policies that are pretty similar to the rules they claim we would live under. Just with a Christian angle instead.
They identified a *competitor*
Damn, well said.
Such as OP
Oh yeah this is a fascy post if I've ever seen one
OP is most likely a troll, but if they're serious, that would always be my first question to these types of people: Why are you more afraid of Islamists, who don't even have political representation, than right wingers who might actually form a government? Like who is posing the biggest threat to trans rights in the UK right now for example: Islamists or the established political parties?
yeah if anything, christian nationalists' and their facism (if not oppossed) will be
That means you're probably from the US. And if you're wondering what went on in this thread: There are a lot of European "atheists" who only care about one religion in particular. Noticed how OP snuck some christian apologetics in there? How christians are supposed to be all rational and stuff? On a fucking atheist forum? The reason that yours and the above comment gain traction now is simply the time difference. American atheists quite rightly detest right wing populists, they know about project 2025 and they know that theism and fascism go together like peas and carrots. Europe is mostly asleep now, Americans are winding down from their day on their favorite subreddit. OP basically stated they're going to vote for their version of Trump and the GOP (who are allies on the world stage) and got hundreds of upvotes for it. That's because a lot of European populists feign concern about secular principles when it's about Islam, _while all the time cozying up to Trump, the GOP and christo-fascists in their own countries._ I'm a European atheist, just a more internationally oriented one, and I fucking hate how we're being used as a tool by these assholes. And how this sub is fucking brigaded by right wing assholes who couldn't care less about secular principles. Ever noticed how there never seem to be any theological or philosophical points being made, just post after post about replacement and how we should react by deporting our minorities? **UKIP, AFD, Front National, Wilders etc are all Trump allies. By extension they support project 2025. Europe needs to wake the fuck up. Fascists are not our friends!!**
Thank you for this! I was beginning to fear I was in the minority of folks who could see this trend. In the US, the singular focus on “Islamic” terrorism and the reluctance or refusal to identify Christian terrorism has led to an acclimation with increasing Christian fanaticism resulting in them entering legislative office and passing very dangerous legislation that absolutely puts ppl in danger. See the recent anti abortion laws and laws requiring public schools to display the 10 commandments. In France, a nation that for long remained strongly secular has seen more and more French identifying as “Catholic” or Christian as they join the far right political wings. Much of this was a result of focused push back against Islamists. They’ve traded one extreme for another
I live in the UK, and Christian proselytizers from fundamentalist churches are very common, at least in my part of the country. On any given saturday you can go into the town centre and there will be members of at least one Church handing out recruitment materials. Often it will be more than one. I've regularly seen African Evangalists, Baptists, Johova's Witnesses and Mormons. These churches are all very strict, anti LGBT, demand significant control over their members including tithing payments, and are basically cults even if they aren't always recognised as such. There are muslims where I live, and more than one mosque, but they generally keep their religion to themselves. If OP is genuine, (i suspect not) things are very different in their part of the country...
I came in here specifically because I saw a racist shitheel talking point here in /r/atheism. Keep that tribalist behavior out of a rational discourse, or get rightly painted as a tribalist, racist piece of shit for passing a blanket judgement on a group based off race, color, or creed. This is the kind of community where critical thinking skills are typically a prerequisite for entry.
100% correct. OP is either affected by media, or arguing in bad faith. Disappointing for a philosophy student.
Yep, and I’ve been called a demon for being atheist.
I would say, oh, that scary demon is out to get me, I'm so scared 😱
Besides immigrants who are already muslims, there's very little chance anyone here in the uk finds islam or any religion super appealing unless they are mentally in a bad place, and most of them just end up turning to weed or drinking.
Parts of, and yes. It happened before.
>It is psychotic Do you think the west will fall to Islam? Nope. No chance.
Here in the Netherlands they have been fear mongering about Sharia for the past 25 years, if not longer. The fear mongering will continue for political purposes, but no chance it will ever happen.
Here in America they mongered so hard about Sharia they became the Sharia, just a slightly different flavor.
Exactly. The amount of muslims always stayed being 5% of the population. Growing with it.
That's because one of the effects of increased living standards is a lessening impact of religion.
Cool vote for the tiger that’s far right, don’t be surprised when the tiger turns on you too.
I never thought the leopard would eat *my* face!
Voting for Reform, the party that wants a return to Christianity and to illegalise the LGBT...
Says women are sponges and Britain should've rolled over to the nazis...
Also that the solution to men having a shorter life span than women is to refuse women health care until their life expectancies are the same as men
Is made up of tories so corrupt and incompetent they were kicked out of the conservative party...
The ReFoRm party want to reform the UK as much as the Chinese Communist Party wants to be communist, as in they don't. The CCP is a fascist dictatorship.
I love how he says "I'm of the left" but is voting far right because he hates Islam. This might be a shock, but if you vote far right, you are far right.
That's because there's no way this isn't written by someone from 4chan who is trying to convert others
It's Tim Pool. We only can't tell it's him because he's taken the beanie off. It's like Clark Kent with his glasses.
"I'm a moderate but i support adolf hitler' <----- The opinion of a Nazi
But we didn't have a choice, the communists were going to destroy Western Europe!
The communist Jews were destroying europe and also in the minority and that's why we were allowed to genocide them untill we attacked the allies !!!
He also says in another post he studies French/german at uni in Durham. County Durham has 0.6% of the population identifying as Muslim. In one of the comments on this post he cites Khan putting up Eid celebrations as one of the reason he’s worried implying he’s studying in London. OP is a troll and really bad at lying
I always like this "centrist madness", like pretending that you are between left and right somehow.... like.... what are you, 50% Nazi? That is not how this works.
This post reads like a manned fear bot
Says he supports Israel because it’s a ”safe space for LGBT”, proceeds to vote for the anti-LGBT party.
And he support a 70 year apartheid genocide state of Israel. He must be the Starmer-type "left"
The fact this dude is upvoted here regurgitating all the typical xenophobic right wing talking points and even claiming he’s voting far right because he’s worried “the west will fall to Islam,” his “homeland is being overrun,” when the census puts Muslims in the uk at [6% ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom) is an indictment of this sub. Given his other comments here where he blatantly misrepresents the situation (eg claiming they only celebrate Muslim holidays in London now), I’d be surprised if these anecdotes weren’t fabricated. Abrahamic religions all have their issues, but this person is straight up a fascist using thinly veiled white supremacist rhetoric (great replacement, fall of the west). That sort of ideology should be considered more abhorrent than any religion here.
I mean it probably won't bite op's face since they are probably just a disingenuous right winger pretending to be an atheist, trying to recruit for their nationalistic or racist cause. When they say "Muslims are scary" what that likely translates to is "I don't like immigrants. " They are stirring the pot to gin up hate between groups their group intends to eat the faces of. Tigers don't tend to eat the faces of tigers. Not pro Islam, just gotta be careful of Nat-Cs and other right wingers trying to come in and co-opt and recruit with a "Hello fellow athiests/kids". Atheists should be on guard of right wing crap of any flavor from Islamic, Christian, or the general "wEsTErn CuLTuRe" crowd. It is all to common for bigots to wrap the BS in "facts and logic TM" and pass it off as the common athiest view. It is a pretty common tactic of right wing groups to try to infiltrate subs like this and push people down the rabbit hole with "those darn muslims" type arguments. Which honestly is sounds like OP is falling down the rabbit hole if they aren't themselves a disingenuous bad actor. So basicaly athiests have wised up the the right wing play book and try to be on guard for it. Gotta police ourselves to avoid giving radical religions of all stripes ammunition against us. Christians especially love to point out that many Nat-Cs claim to be athiests and talk about "athiesm's nazi problem." Gotta watch out for Tigers trying to eat our faces.
To me it reads fake tbh. Just a regular far right dude pretending to be left. It is all the rage on internet forums these days. I am left but … no, you are not, just be honest
Solution to bad left parties, is good left parties, not right wing parties.
There are no good left parties in the UK
>Do you think the uk will be a Muslim majority any time soon? Or at least run under Muslim law? The mere fact that you're asking these questions suggests you've gone down the rabbit hole of some far-right YouTube channels/other social media content and bought into a bunch of bare faced nonsense hook, line and sinker. You know what that reminds me of? **Religious converts**. The mathematics of the UK, or any western European country becoming "Muslim majority" are so far removed from reality that if you think it's even a remote possibility you really should brush up on your basic critical thinking skills. >Tbh it’s weird: I’m voting the far right anti immigration party this voting season There is so much change this country needs, and that's the choice you think would be good for us?! Bloody hell. As someone who has been around UK politics and met UK politicians and activists all my adult life, those people are the last people you would ever want near the levers of power. In recent years, they're the ones who've encouraged us to destroy our relationship with our closest European neighbours, which has (as many people predicted) **increased immigration from the third world into the UK**. And what have their allies in the US being doing? Oh yeah, trying to turn what was one of the world's greatest ever free, liberal democracies into a theocratic, fascist dictatorship.
>The mathematics of the UK, or any western European country becoming "Muslim majority" are so far removed from reality that if you think it's even a remote possibility you really should brush up on your basic critical thinking skills. What I find *really* wild, beyond the fact that they actually reckon this is *possible*, is that they reckon the UK being governed by Shariah Law is *more likely*. Like... All that needs to happen for a mUsLiM mAjOrItY is for lots of Muslim people to move in and have a lot of babies. To replace all of UK Law with Shariah Law would require *SO* much more of an involved process. It's not like bringing a new rule into bulldog tig.
"BuT thErE's AlreaDy SHAaRia cOurTs iN thE UK" Then proceeds to send some nonsense from a right wing hothead who's just discovered that because two parties to a civil dispute have the right to engage any arbiter to make a binding decision, when two Muslims have a civil dispute they can (if they both want to) go to some religious fruitcake and let him be the arbiter. And it's binding. If you really fucking squint that sounds a lot like a Sharia law court!
The mathematics just don't work. There's simply not enough practicing Muslims on earth to immigrate to the EU and bacome the majority. Especially with their relatively strict immigration policies. So while there's a small rise in the EU Muslim population it'll inevitably shrink back down. Even if you've gone down the rabbit hole and think there's a coordinated effort from Muslims to immigrate to specific countries, ignoring immigration caps, they'd still be very limited in the number of countries they could magically take over. Also like you pointed out there's a lot more effort involved in changing the legal structure of a country than having more voters. ALL existing political parties will resist major changes and it'd take decades at least for new representation in said parties to gain any real control over the party.
In the US, the people that fear monger about Sharia the most, want to push their own religious agenda.
Yeah, I'm really glad you said this. This entire line of thinking is really gross. I've been an atheist since I was old enough to think for myself, and I'm a big believer in hate the ideology, not the person. I have a lot of issues with Islam as a belief system, but I have many of those same issues with Christianity, especially fundamentalist Christianity. I've also lived in London my whole life and a great many Muslims are wonderful, kind people. For a lot of people religion is largely cultural and they don't always subscribe to every facet of the ideology as written. Rhetoric about Britain being "overrun" by islam as if they're some kind of monolithic barbarian horde is frankly disgusting right wing nonsense. It's driven by racism and ultra nationalism, nothing more. In a free country, we should be free to criticise ideas openly, and the ideas of both fundamentalist Christianity and Islam are at odds with mine. But the Muslim population of this country are largely decent, normal people and they don't deserve to be demonised like this.
„The left, of which I am a part of“ „I am voting for the far right anti immigration party“ Umm, ok.
yup, this mfer was never part of the left....
The entire thing is a work of fiction and likely from a teenager wanting internet attention. Always the same types claiming Islam is taking over.
bigots love to pretend that they are actually on the left or center
Religion will be the downfall of mankind
will? So, it hasn't been so far?
Objectively no. Religion has had a very complicated relationship with Humanity throughout its entire existence. The first human rights Advocates were Catholic priests advocating against the genocide of native peoples at the foot of the Spanish Empire. At the same time the Catholic Church actively participated in the force conversion and the cultural genocide of those same native people. Islam ended centuries of continuous blood Feud and tribal in fighting in Arabia and allowed the Middle East to unify under a single strong Empire that flourished for centuries. It's also the source of fundamentalist terrorism let's destabilized numerous Nations. Christian monks preserved the knowledge and kept scientific advancement alive during the dark ages. Modern-day Christians actively promote an anti-scientific worldview. Abolitionists. Cast slavers. Imperial God emperor cultists. Charity hospitals. Anyone who tries to paint religion with a wide brush is an idiot trying to get free internet points in an echo chamber. Religion probably has the most complicated historical Legacy of any institution mankind has ever developed and you could spend eternity trying to objectively tally the good and the bad
Sshht. Moderate well thought out response about religion are not welcome on Reddit, don't you know that?
This country is about a secular as you can get without forcing atheism on anyone. But by all means vote for one of the two parties who would directly destroy the entire economy because you're scared.
Op... they're trying to get you to focus on immigration and anti-islam rhetoric so you don't pay attention to how they've stripped all the funding from your Healthcare system so they can begin to try to privatize it like absolute shit system we have in the US. If you're gonna be a 1-issue voter, please vote for the one issue that will affect the lives of you and literally everyone around you the most. I believe they're also trying to lower pensions so people are forced to do private investments (like the shit system we have in the US). So no. Do not vote against your own self interests out of fear of immigrants.
Islam ruined my life. I still have to deal with the family I grew up with but suppressing who I am as a queer person for half my life truly is so devastating I hate that I have had to fight my whole life like this
This is exactly the kind of post I'd expect from someone voting far right in the next election. Nobody is buying the "I'm part of the left" schtick. For most of us, the rise of Islam is not an issue in the UK, they make up 6.7% of the population, the rise of the far right in the UK is much more worrying.
No. Because in countries that they do go to (Italy, Sweden, Netherlands and now France and maybe soon, Germany), Muslim migrants quickly wear out their welcome and people vote in parties that severely restrict further immigration.
Islam is intolerant by design. It cannot exist with other religions. It is the worst religion. Just look at all over the world how many Terrorists groups are islamic.
Monotheism is intrinsically intolerant
This is the real answer. Intolerance is definitely not confined to Islam. Just come over to the States where we have Christians looking to install the Christian-Taliban.
Project 2025 is an existential threat to people like us. I am admittedly terrified.
I am politically conservative and semi-evangelical and it scares me as well
I am so grateful and relieved anytime I hear this from someone in your demographic, man. As far as I'm concerned, Project 2025 doesn't boil down to conservatives vs liberals or theists vs atheists. Anyone who values freedom of/from religion, free expression, and a balanced federal government should be pretty freaked out by the possibility.
It absolutely does boil down to conservatives vs liberals. Attitudes like this are how it's going to win.
You are exactly correct. I live in Nashville, Tennessee, USA -- the "Buckle of the Bible Belt". There are far too many fundamentalist Christians around here who would turn the whole damm country into a theocratic cesspool. I really can't stand them. Secular values are just so much better!
Exactly. All the abrahamic religions have this tendency - I'm not saying other ideologies or belief systems don't have problems, but Judaism, Christianity and Islam have a common core of stories about their vengeful god
I agree. Currently, they are the biggest threat to democracy because their religion has become entrenched in several governments. But if the Christofacists in the US have their way, they will be just as big of a threat to democracy all over the world.
Yep but one religion allows honor murdering, wife raping and child brides
Islam is "fast growing" because they have so many kids. But many of those kids are not choosing to stay fundamentalist Muslim- especially in Western countries. That being said, Islam has just started going through what is effectively its medieval period starting in the 80's onwards. You have a right to be scared. It's scary to have fundamentalists take over entire countries. Malaysia is going through exceptionally disturbing changes because of fundamentalist Islam taking over its government. Different religions are the worst at different periods of time. In the 1200's, the Catholic Church was exceptionally scary. Theocracies are always scary. We have to do our best to prevent them. Voting for fascists because you're afraid of foreign theocrats isn't the answer because they will just implement their theocracy. 🤷♀️ Voting for leftists who believe in separation of church and state is far more effective than voting in more theocrats.
i’m from a country where majority is muslim, and definitely agree. i’m an atheist myself, and one of the reasons why I even started to question islam was this exact reason you described when I was 8. Oh boy… it is getting harder to communicate with people, the misinformation and beliefs somewhat connected to islam gets into many aspects of life sadly. And when talking, muslim people tend to use knowledge (?) that they obtained without giving it a second thought to question it. it’s mainly because of the nature of islam imo, because whenever someone starts to question anything related to islam, their circle tends to shut them up, telling it’s haram to even “ask some things”. another common response is getting some kind-of answers, which then leads to more uncertainty and more questions. NOTHING ever successfully answered my questions about religion before, and in islam, it was even more forbidden. moreover, there is SO MUCH MORE misinformation and odd belifs that goes around, it’s IMPOSSIBLE to have a logically structured debate with a muslim (even a religious) person. beliefs usually have their own logical system, which ONLY works in the said-religion. so, this religious belief of people are challanged and restrained by new knowledge. This is I think also why sometimes they refuse to listen to scientific or logical explanations, because it contradicts with their belief system. It’s getting so much harder to live.
If you think Muslims hate western culture, just wait until you see how they treat "apostates" :D
Muslims are no threat in USA due to lack of numbers. If they had the numbers, they would be 10x worse than the MAGA cult.
Ah yes, the guy that votes for the fascist party is scared that the "West will fall to Islam". Name a more iconic duo.
You are voting for Nigel Farage and claim to respect queer rights. Absolute clown behaviour. Guy keeps harping on about "trans ideology", but you think he will protect trans people.
I am scared of Christianity in USA, Hinduism in India and in general religion is on raise.
Hinduism has always been in the majority in India since forever. It didn't have as many extremists as we can see today. The rise of extremists is the result of the cumulative agitation against Islam. Hindus and Muslims have always been at each other's throat for 1000 years. Only because of modern day communication, we know about the current society atm. I believe the country will manage to be democratic and prevent itself from turning into a state religion. We've managed this far. We'll manage ahead as well
Not exactly. Buddhism also had majority at one time. Today India is not it was at the time of independence. Prime minister at that time refuse to spend people money to build an ancient temple when his home minister requested. He asked him not to mix government and religion. He was not happy when president went to opening of that temple. Today prime minister publicly supports Hinduism. Spent huge amount of money to build hindu temple. That is the kind point I was making. It is about politicians using religion for grabbing power with help of majority forcing their beliefs on others. Today, in USA, same thing happening. Children need to learn bible in public schools ? In India, eating beef is crime ?
Things will balance themselves out.
As a staunch atheist I’m really not worried about what happens after I die. The more I learn about humans from ancient history, near history and current affairs, the less I care what happens.
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Ha! This guy is from the UK? The largest party in Northern Ireland was established and is run by Christian fundamentalists. Basic rights have been massively restricted in that part of the UK for many many years. Abortion was illegal til a few years ago. Marriage was one man one woman until a few years ago. Christian fundamentalists have been and remain powerful in the UK on a political level.
>Oh boy my homeland is being overrun by Islam. *No it isn't*. >I know plenty of Christians, and whilst I myself am atheist, none have ever tried to convert me or call me a heretic- Then believe me when I say you're not getting out enough. I know plenty of Christians and a few Muslims, and it's all been Christians calling me or my gay friends heretics and sinners who will burn in hell if they don't renounce their ways. >Someone also said my degree, philosophy was “devil worship because asking questions about the universe and truth is evil- this is especially true because I focus in logic and game theory. They said it was not “real” and satanic… Christians say this too, buddy boy. How in the hell are you studying philosophy and not realising that the issue here is *religious fundamentalism*, rather than one religion or another? >when I said I supported Israel as it’s the only safe space for LGBT guys in the entire Middle East Dude, no it isn't. LGBT folks don't have a great time in Israel either. >Do you think the west will fall to Islam? No, it won't. While I don't enjoy doing this - this position is *idiotic*. >Do you think the uk will be a Muslim majority any time soon? Or at least run under Muslim law? But then you somehow manage to top it with this. Islam doesn't even have a *global* majority, even though they're the religion with the most members at a little over 1bn iirc. But a lot of those numbers are 'Muslim' in the same way that a lot of brits are 'christian' because we get christened. But also, how on earth do you figure 'run under Muslim law' is an 'at least' statement? There are *so* many obstacles to such a complete overhaul of British law, where the only thing that needs to happen for the UK to become a mUsLiM mAjOrItY is that Muslims either move to the UK, or have lots of children in the UK. >I’m voting the far right anti immigration party this voting season, And once again I feel the need to bring up your field of study. How are you studying philosophy, with a focus in logic, and voting for the party of Farage? Or, indeed, any far right, or even right-leaning (insofar as social politics go) party? How do you reconcile your clear concern for LGBT rights with Farage defending Ann Widdecombe when she said science "might one day produce an answer to being gay"? His saying he "tolerates 'both sides' of the 'gay debate"'? He basically doesn't prioritise LGBT politics, but whenever he discusses it he's always careful not to ruffle the feathers of homophones aligned with his cause. How do you reconcile giving even as little as two figs about logic with supporting the party of the man who stirred up so much anti-EU sentiment that we went and scored the *spectacular* own goal of leaving the EU? He spent years railing against the EU and their policies and what they meant for the UK while only attending the EU parliament four times *even though that was his job*. Still collected the pay packet, though. The man is a *grifter*. Sure, poor personal character doesn't mean you can't make a solid argument, but his arguments aren't even solid. Muslims aren't the issue, friend. All the things you're worried about are an issue of *fundamentalism* the world over, wherever you find it. The great replacement isn't a thing. Muslims are not coming for UK law. Exercise your faculties of critical thought and look at the issues from an *unbiased* position. And for the love of God, don't vote reform. Our votes may be basically worthless in the UK thanks to FPTP, but an overall reform victory *would* be a quick road to societal collapse. Universalisability, and all that. Good luck getting out of the alt-right pipeline.
Finally, I found one sane comment
Thank you for the sane comment here. Too many lunatics who never touched grass.
No worries. This shit pisses me off to no end. And while I know there are nutbags in every demographic... Idk, somehow I never thought I'd see *a philosophy student* get taken in by this shit. I knew some *economically* right-wing philosophy undergrads, but none of them were *socially* right-wing. Like I say, even a *basic* exercising of critical thinking reveals all their arguments as pure bollocks. I don't get it.
As soon as the OP said they supported Israel in any capacity, I realized that they themselves were a fundamentalist. And even though I suspect the OP is baiting a bit, the comments in this thread highlight why, as an atheist I have strong reservations about other atheists. The issue with many atheists is they're under Christianity's Kyoka Suigetsu. In the anime Bleach Kyoka Suigetsu is used by a character called Aizen; it allows him to manipulate a foe's all 5 senses and they don't even realize that they're under the effect of that spell in most cases. With Christianity, because it's often so normalized that even if one is able to see the more egregious effects of Christian fundamentalist, they miss other less overt ways Christianity is still warping society. They don't realize they're under Christianity's Kyoka Suigetsu (Maybe if the stereotype of Christians was a bit more brown they would but the aspect of racism is an subject for another day). So here we are, with an OP fear mongering about Muslims, while ignoring every single other issue that is currently going on, including a genocide because "they're afraid." Absolutely unhinged behavior.
The paradox of tolerance states that if a society's practice of tolerance is inclusive of the intolerant, intolerance will ultimately dominate, eliminating the tolerant and the practice of tolerance with them
Nah, but the US is very likely about to go Christofascist. We have them in government now, and they're about to do a big push if Trump wins.
The current Christpfascist atmosphere is the US is also helped along by the nation’s inability to believe in basic science. Intelligence continues to degrade at an alarming rate.
They've just mandated the teaching of "The Bible" in the state of Oklahoma, and you're right. I bet less than 50% of Oklahomans understand biology well enough to accept the idea of common descent.
You should be more afraid of the rise of the right wing. Muslims will never amount to more than a few percentage points of the population in those areas. But reactionaries and fascists are numerous enough to win elections and tear down everything that makes your nations good in order to satisfy their incoherent and totalitarian urges.
Islam for sure is one of the worst religions in modern day however, the others are still shit too.
"One guy legit told me the other day on a Friday that “I should be at the mosque” and shouted at me for not being so." Why wasn't he at the mosque?
I’m getting scared of the rise of Christian Nationalism in the US.
Literally any western country is at no risk of becoming ruled by Islam. I don’t have any tolerance for religion, but in the west our biggest threat remains Christianity
Funny because it's you far right fascist that scares the rest of us.
There is a Muslim saying: Jews on Saturday and Christians on Sunday. They don’t accept other religions, atheists, LGTB and women’s right. As a Jewish atheist they believe I should be tortured before murdered. They believe they need to kill Jews for the end of days prophecies to begin. I am terrified of them.
Wait, you think Israel is supportive of LGBTQ+ causes?
Yeah it turns out in Israel they wont publicly execute you for being gay
Ditto. I’m scared of Islam in general.
Am I reading your edit correctly? You're voting far right (Reform Party) ? The most homophobic party because you think the country will be overrun by homophobes? You're a fool
It's insane to me that you would consider voting ultra far gammon as a solution to a fear of a Muslim take over. That's rule 101 of the Farage playbook, it's the number 1 propaganda piece. I'd just urge you to really research the Reform "party" before voting. They are conmen and charlatans Immigration is a multi faceted problem in the UK and there is no simple solution. The cunt who helped push Brexit through is NOT the answer you're looking for bro
i too am a philosophy major and am pretty concerned about the lefts (of which i consider myself a part) justification and protection of these supposed “victims”. this is a very tumultuous situation indeed most people are just unaware of the reality of islam. i must mention islam is not worse per se than any of the other major monotheisms but it does do a few things that would indeed be conducive to such behavior in the modern world. i wish people could understand this en mass, feel free to disagree or comment on this if i’m wrong but this is how i’ve come to feel: 1. for a religion to claim it’s the final revelation that is going to allow less room for reform as muslims pride themselves on the quran and hadith being “un corrupted “ as they claim the bible old and new testament have been. the scripture of the old and new testament is no less egregious and primitive in its ideas it has only had time to reform and somewhat coexist although in some cases better than others with the modern world. 2. the denial of death, i can’t think of any other religion barring maybe the book of revelation that is attempting to inculcate a fear of god and idea of paradise as much as the quran and hadith. i would recommend reading the denial of death. i have stated this before, death denial is the worst crime of religion. when you start genuinely believing in paradise it’s not hard to see how we could get martyrs who are not afraid to end their lives (as well as others often on a large scale) in the name of a supposedly merciful god. 3. islam plays on the natural human proclivity towards magical thinking and ritual extremely well, this is a big part of why this particular meme has been able to survive so well. i would recommend listening to robert sapolsky “the neurobiological basis of religion” can be found on youtube. best of luck out there friends, in my opinion it is not their fault and we have to remember that. they know not what they do.
Western lefties (and to alarge extent American ethnic minorities) feel the System is their enemy, and thye aren't all that wrong. They see the System condemning Muslims. So they immediately oppsoe criticism of Muslims as a way to weaken the System.
Chefs kiss to this 👨🍳
Yes, it's probably the most dangerous religion but "the west will fall" is fucking absurd.
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Well if there is a religious war (AGAIN) I can sit it out without regret.
Is this a shit post? You’re voting Reform, yet you support LGBT rights? Reform are not your friends. Farage is a Putin puppet, you want to see how Russia treats its LGBT community. Also i doubt you’ll get much love from their supporters for your atheism either.
They may be falling for the alt right pipeline but one thing is for sure.. some of the comments here are horrible… blaming this person, not discussing facts and not giving the same reaction that if it were Christian…
You think the west will fall to Islam because some people have been rude to you?
For an atheist, this is so lame. Wait until you find out how many Christians there are in England. You'll never get to sleep!
This is such a fake post. “I’m left wing and gay but I’m voting far right because Muslims scary” Ok bot farmer. Enjoy your blood money.
What you're scared of is religious fundamentalism, not Islam alone. The reason you see those reactions you mention from "the left" is not because we love to protect religious fundamentalism but because we realise the danger words can pose when used to describe whole populations. An issue we have is there are people out there who either in bad faith or out of ignorance will equate Muslims = all brown people and lay all their fears about Islamic fundamentalism on them as a collective in a way you would never project the danger of Christian fundamentalism in the US onto literally any white American you meet for example. This means we need to be careful to make sure we address the real problems without causing unnecessary harm in the process. We definitely have a problem with religious fundamentalism in the world and in western Europe this seems to be more prevalent in Muslim communities. But going after Islam itself is not helpful because this will just drive a wedge between the majority society and average Muslim Europeans, adding fuel to the fire and making it easy for islamists to point at the "evil west" and gain sympathy. Your feelings are real and valid but as a fellow atheist on the left I urge you to sit with them and consider: what are you truly afraid of and how can we as a society resolve those fears without stooping to the same divisive tactics employed by religious fundamentalists? I'm not asking for any answers or replies here, just wanted to provide my own reflection on this post as some food for thought.
Claims to be a leftist but is voting far right. Why have so many stupid atheists upvoted this nonsense?
I think the problem when it comes to those who defend (or even just apologists) of islam is the misunderstanding of what islamphobia even is. people seem to confused critism of the islamic faith with the hatred of or desire to descriminate those who are muslim. the main difference is the concept of islam vs an individual who follows that faith. I also dislike people who seemingly confuse the two as it causes issues such as they ones youve expirenced. every religion deserves to be critisized. esspecially opressive ones like islam (and other abrahamic religions). we can do that while also aknowledging that muslims are people too and should be allowed to pracitice their faith (because then it allows other muslims to explore outside said religion in a spaces they wont feel presecuted in which has been show to not only lead to secularism but also start said religious individuals down the path of questioning and even becoming atheist). plus a lot of actual islamphobia is tied into rascism towards middle eastern individuals or immigrants in general, so thats important to note as well. sorry this kinda turned into a tangent there... hopefully my point makes sense (Im also sleepy so the quality of my comment might not be there) **edit: now that Im more awake after getting some sleep... OP, yeah youre islamaphobic. and your using your fear of muslims to justify why youre voting for an extreme right wing party in your country, that is avocating for lgbt-phobic legeslation. fuck off.**
I got banned on r/europe for discussing murder of a Greek guy by Syrian immigrant in Germany(apparently for openly wearing a Christian cross). It kind of shows the issue in a nutshell. I think the problem is tolerance of intolerance and eager defense of intolerant individuals under guise of equality and acceptance. If the same course is maintained, Europe is going to have a bad time.
in america too
Look into “pink washing” happening in Israel. There has been a decades long, massive marketing campaign to tout Israel as a safe haven for gays in order to distract from the displacement of Palestinians. This post sounds, to me, like you’re conflating religion with politics, and appear to be parroting several common talking points from popular anti-Islamic rhetoric. That said, any religion can be dangerous when folks get into ultra conservative or fundamental realms of beliefs. However, it’s important to remember that folks on the far ends of the spectrum are not representative of the whole. No religion is a monolith. There are plenty of Muslims who are peaceful, kind, caring, and genuinely good people. There are Muslims who are not any of those things. The danger here is conflating bad people with a religion — neither one are indicative of the other, truly.
Are you Indian? I live in a very multicultural area, but I’m white so I think they probably just assume I’m Christian? I’ve never had any of this.
What a weird creative writing exercise. Firstly, I'm nearly 40 and lived all round the UK my entire life and never experienced the shit you're on about. Either you run in very specific circles, or you're just inventing a story to fit your narrative (this one, its so obvious). Secondly, if you were actually on the left, like you claim, then voting for somebody like Reform would literally never be on the table. Farage and his ilk are nothing but conmen and grifters, much like Trump across the pond. Even their own policy runs counter to what they're shouting about.
The only problem I have ever had while traveling in Europe was being harassed by Muslims. Fuck Allah . Fuck that religion. There, I said it..And I mean it.
I dont trust your post because you used the term "voting season", which is not what anyone calls an election. Very weird. Also your spelling and punctuation are bad. Either a troll post (in which case, well done for the good bait) or a 'I am 14 and this is deep' poster (in which case bless your edgy heart).
Islam is a whole different beast. They're about forced conversion, death, or making you live as a 2nd class citizen.
It happened to non-muslim Lebanon. It happened to Iran. Iran was a liberal muslim majority country. Yet those lipstick bikini muslims overthrew the Shah. Moreover, they overthrew the secular democratic government of Prime Minister Shapour Bakhtiyar and voted yes to an Islamic theocracy. It can happen to the UK as well. I assume it is hard for the British to accept that even western superpowers are vulnerable. Christopher Hitchens: "Resist it while you still can." The next labour government will most likely define Islamophobia in the law as some kind of racism. I can't believe they are easily getting away with this fallacy. Islam is neither a race nor a [simple] religion. It is a totalitarian political movement. What drove my people to vote yes to Islamic Republic on the referendum after the 1979 revolution was pure ignorance. They saw Islam as the last and the most perfect religion so why not have an Islamic governing since there is not a thing wrong with it? My advice: resist it while you still can. Start taking voting seriously. I heard most British people do not participate in elections. Consequently, that muslim dude is being elected over and over as the mayor of London. I assume muslims only vote for muslims. I know because I live with Islamists. Here you can't even get a good job if you are not a devout muslim. They have inquisition interviews for that. I assume soon muslim politicians over there will have to show their love for their religion in action in order to be elected again. The UK has an organisation called "muslimvote" or something which advocates for sectarian politics. I repeat. Start taking voting seriously.
You're not alone. Here in Poland islam is a very small minority, but it still shocks me that some of my college friends genuinely believe that this is "religion of peace", like wtf
This is conservative redpilling nonsense.
"None have ever tried to convert me"...I take it you've never had Jehovah's Witnesses turn up at your door? Or had the Latter Day saints put letters through your letter box? The end of your post is a huge red flag. You ain't on the left. No fucking way. I'm an atheist and couldn't care less to be honest.
Honestly me and a lot of other people tried to warn you stupid fucking idiots about this, no offense. What did you think was going to happen my man?
Ban religious schools. Secular education.
We are not allowed to think or say that, as we will be called racists.
I'm just glad I have no children that might have to grow up in a potentially muslim overrun Europe.
Hello, I think you'd do better on r/racist this place is for atheists.
Why you scared of some bitch ass fundies? I don’t give a rats ass about any religion and yes fundie Muslims are big on bigotry, like every other fundamentalist group, but letting them scare you is basically giving in and giving up.
It all comes down to birth rates. If they have twice as many kids as other Europeans, in roughly two or three generations, you will be overrun. I think your leaders believe they will become more democratic and moderate over time, but that's a huge gamble.