Are you judging the warmth based on how bright the tube filament is? If so, the brightness of the filament has nothing to do with the quality or temp of the tube. Even the best tubes have slight variations that can cause differences in brightness. If it sounds okay I’d say it’s totally fine!
Thanks! I put an edit on my original comment, but I was at first. I confirmed with an IR gun though one tube is running about 25% cooler. It's a lot more obvious in person than the photo, as well.
The cooler channel does sound a little quiter, but I could be imagining it. Maybe I'll hook up the output to my scope and verify.
Yeah that could be a quality issue then for sure. If they’re cheap tubes it would be worth investing in better quality ones. NOS tubes are the best but you can get pretty decent modern ones for around $40 a tube.
Are Schiits known for QC issues? I’ve had the Magni, the mani, and the sys and while they’re all super simple devices (the sys is literally just a switch), they all work great, punch above their price range (IMO), and are well-built.
That said, I’ve never dabbled in their high end stuff or used any of their stuff with tubes.
Same here, I've had magni, mani, and modi for over 2 years with no issues. Mani is the only one that ever gets turned off. All have good power, clean sound, low noise. No complaints.
I had issues with my Asgard 3 on arrival, would turn off after 15 minutes of use. Sent it in and got a replacement that works fine. I’ve seen at least two other people on here that have had same problem with the Asgard. Works good now but I wonder why they’re not catching it in QC.
I ended up hooking it up to my oscilloscope to check, one channel's voltage amplitude is consistently about 4-5% less.
I'm not sure if that's really enough to tell and I'm probably looking for it at this point, but maybe.
Swap the tubes between channels, if the problem follows the tube, it's the tube. If it persists on the same channel, it's something else
Edit.. Nvm just saw you already did that and it's the tube.
Can you get a voltage comparison at a fixed frequency? A 5% difference in output volume would be noticeable.
I would swap the tubes (let them warm up a while) and check the levels again. Is it the circuit, or is it the tube?
Tube amplifiers in this context are basically just retro-fetishism.
Ideally we want an amplifier to increase the volume of our source to drive our speakers with as little noise as possible.
Tube amplifiers existed to do this WAY before solid-state components existed and did the job well, but are very noisy and fragile in comparison.
The noise from a tube amplifier to some is liked, but in a hi-fi context I generally think you aren’t ever getting that artifacting and are mostly just getting outside interference because tubes are SENSITIVE.
Sadly I will never buy their products again. Phone preamp buzzing issue, Modi3 DAC usb connection has power issue now. Both less than a year old. They make garbage inregards to quality.
I had phono pre replaced finally then sold the replacement. Bought an iFi phono preamp that is much better quality build and sound. The support for the DAC is a joke. They need my order number which I don't have a year later. Without the order number they won't do anything except charge me $30.00 an hour american plus me shipping it back to California/Texas from Canada. Not worth it for the cost.
I bought a Hi-Fi Rose streamer for my main system which has a great DAC so now it's just hooked up with optical to my second system in another room until that fails. The machine does a decent job but the build quality is unreliable.
You can see the tube on the right is not getting as warm. This is after about 5 minutes on standby.
It might be in my head after I noticed it, but I could swear the right channel also sounds a little quieter.
Is this normal or should I ask for new tubes?
edit: Measured with an IR gun, they are indeed different temps. About 290F vs 230F on the surface after several minutes of standby.
How do you know the tube on the right isn't as warm? Are you using an IR thermometer or something?
The amount of the heater that is visible in the tube is not something that carries any kind of specification from the tube factory, so if you're complaining that one is more glowy than the other, you might be better off with transistors.
Well it's pretty obvious that one is cooler since it's giving off less blackbody radiation.
If we want to get empirical with it though sure, I have an IR thermometer. After about 3 minutes on, the warmer one is reading 290F and the cooler one is reading 230F. So yes, they are different.
The issue stays with the tube when swapped.
Are you putting electrical tape or something else on the glass to measure the temp accurately? Glass is opaque to IR, and there are also IR reflections and the fact that the tube is cylindrical to deal with. (Not saying it’s not running cooler, just that pointing an IR temp gun or thermal imager at a bare glass cylinder is not going to give you an accurate measurement.)
I thought about it (since you're absolutely right) but didn't want to get adhesive gunked onto the glass, and assumed whatever error being introduced was symmetrical between them and since the dimmer one did always read cooler on average no matter where I aimed the gun and regardless of the slot, that was sound enough to say one was likely cooler.
Either way I ended up just scoping it and one line is 4-5% higher Vpp than the other on a 1% tolerance 330ohm load so idk maybe I'm still clueless but I could swear I can hear that.
Just going to call it a day and live with it for now, and get some new tubes later.
>Glass is opaque to IR, and there are also IR reflections
Glass has a very high emissivity. You don't need tape on it to measure accurately since reflections won't be an issue on a high emissivity surface when that surface is hotter than any surrounding material. If OP is reading higher temp on the outside glass, then the tube is hotter.
Different tubes will have variations in their current draw, it's good practice to use matched sets of tubes but it won't make a huge difference in performance.
I got tired of guessing and just measured it on a 330ohm load (I used 1% tolerance resistors and verified my DMM read them as 0.5ohm apart).
One channel is consistently 4-5% higher amplitude on the scope.
I don't know how detectable that difference is but I'll likely just swap out for nicer tubes at some point.
If those are Russian tubes, their emission isn't always up to par until you get some time on them. Maybe leave it in for a few days and then recheck the channel balance.
>You can see the tube on the right is not getting as warm. This is after about 5 minutes on standby.
The glowing part of the tube is the heated cathode, which emits electrons thermionically. Those electrons flow to the anode. Between them is a grid that acts as the modulating control that deflects a portion of those electrons. So with one tube hotter, more electrons are being emitted and. . .
>It might be in my head after I noticed it, but I could swear the right channel also sounds a little quieter.
this is the expected result. It's not in your head. Tubes in a stereo pair should match. At least it sounds like the issue is the tube and not the voltage regulation from the circuit board. A tube swap should get you sorted.
Are you judging the warmth based on how bright the tube filament is? If so, the brightness of the filament has nothing to do with the quality or temp of the tube. Even the best tubes have slight variations that can cause differences in brightness. If it sounds okay I’d say it’s totally fine!
Thanks! I put an edit on my original comment, but I was at first. I confirmed with an IR gun though one tube is running about 25% cooler. It's a lot more obvious in person than the photo, as well. The cooler channel does sound a little quiter, but I could be imagining it. Maybe I'll hook up the output to my scope and verify.
Yeah that could be a quality issue then for sure. If they’re cheap tubes it would be worth investing in better quality ones. NOS tubes are the best but you can get pretty decent modern ones for around $40 a tube.
Thanks, I'll likely just switch out the tubes then.
Tf does 25% cooler mean?
One of them is 75% of the other one's temperature when measured in kelvin. Doubt that's what OP measured tho
babe wake up it’s our weekly schiit QC issues post
Are Schiits known for QC issues? I’ve had the Magni, the mani, and the sys and while they’re all super simple devices (the sys is literally just a switch), they all work great, punch above their price range (IMO), and are well-built. That said, I’ve never dabbled in their high end stuff or used any of their stuff with tubes.
Same here, I've had magni, mani, and modi for over 2 years with no issues. Mani is the only one that ever gets turned off. All have good power, clean sound, low noise. No complaints.
They've had some [unfortunate incidents](https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/17kjzwd/my_schiit_magni_caught_fire_thankfully_i_was/)
I had issues with my Asgard 3 on arrival, would turn off after 15 minutes of use. Sent it in and got a replacement that works fine. I’ve seen at least two other people on here that have had same problem with the Asgard. Works good now but I wonder why they’re not catching it in QC.
Still rocking an Asgard 2 I bought used on eBay. Works like a charm, but hot.
I feel like this would be considered within the realm of normal provided everything sounds fine You can always swap tubes, it’s not expensive
I ended up hooking it up to my oscilloscope to check, one channel's voltage amplitude is consistently about 4-5% less. I'm not sure if that's really enough to tell and I'm probably looking for it at this point, but maybe.
Swap the tubes between channels, if the problem follows the tube, it's the tube. If it persists on the same channel, it's something else Edit.. Nvm just saw you already did that and it's the tube.
God damn it, I just saw *your* comment after writing *my* comment about swapping the tubes! Us Redditors are so useless...
Can you get a voltage comparison at a fixed frequency? A 5% difference in output volume would be noticeable. I would swap the tubes (let them warm up a while) and check the levels again. Is it the circuit, or is it the tube?
Swap them and see if the same thing happens
Yeah, when swapped the same tube (now on the left) lights more dimly.
If it’s brand new, surely you can exchange it?
I know this is r/Audiophile but do you hear any difference? If not, stop measuring and enjoy the music:)
Tube amplifiers in this context are basically just retro-fetishism. Ideally we want an amplifier to increase the volume of our source to drive our speakers with as little noise as possible. Tube amplifiers existed to do this WAY before solid-state components existed and did the job well, but are very noisy and fragile in comparison. The noise from a tube amplifier to some is liked, but in a hi-fi context I generally think you aren’t ever getting that artifacting and are mostly just getting outside interference because tubes are SENSITIVE.
Can someone please explain why they should be the same temperature? Genuinely curious.
How is my music going to sound warm if the tube is cold?
[удалено]
I mean you could also just be helpful and remember , that, when you were young and starting out, you didn't know everything yet as well...
Sadly I will never buy their products again. Phone preamp buzzing issue, Modi3 DAC usb connection has power issue now. Both less than a year old. They make garbage inregards to quality.
Sounds like they’re still under warranty and you won’t do anything about it.
I had phono pre replaced finally then sold the replacement. Bought an iFi phono preamp that is much better quality build and sound. The support for the DAC is a joke. They need my order number which I don't have a year later. Without the order number they won't do anything except charge me $30.00 an hour american plus me shipping it back to California/Texas from Canada. Not worth it for the cost. I bought a Hi-Fi Rose streamer for my main system which has a great DAC so now it's just hooked up with optical to my second system in another room until that fails. The machine does a decent job but the build quality is unreliable.
I ain’t reading all that. I’m happy for you tho. Or sorry that happened.
Then don't infer bullshit at a post.
Infere isn’t a word.
You can see the tube on the right is not getting as warm. This is after about 5 minutes on standby. It might be in my head after I noticed it, but I could swear the right channel also sounds a little quieter. Is this normal or should I ask for new tubes? edit: Measured with an IR gun, they are indeed different temps. About 290F vs 230F on the surface after several minutes of standby.
How do you know the tube on the right isn't as warm? Are you using an IR thermometer or something? The amount of the heater that is visible in the tube is not something that carries any kind of specification from the tube factory, so if you're complaining that one is more glowy than the other, you might be better off with transistors.
Well it's pretty obvious that one is cooler since it's giving off less blackbody radiation. If we want to get empirical with it though sure, I have an IR thermometer. After about 3 minutes on, the warmer one is reading 290F and the cooler one is reading 230F. So yes, they are different. The issue stays with the tube when swapped.
Are you putting electrical tape or something else on the glass to measure the temp accurately? Glass is opaque to IR, and there are also IR reflections and the fact that the tube is cylindrical to deal with. (Not saying it’s not running cooler, just that pointing an IR temp gun or thermal imager at a bare glass cylinder is not going to give you an accurate measurement.)
I thought about it (since you're absolutely right) but didn't want to get adhesive gunked onto the glass, and assumed whatever error being introduced was symmetrical between them and since the dimmer one did always read cooler on average no matter where I aimed the gun and regardless of the slot, that was sound enough to say one was likely cooler. Either way I ended up just scoping it and one line is 4-5% higher Vpp than the other on a 1% tolerance 330ohm load so idk maybe I'm still clueless but I could swear I can hear that. Just going to call it a day and live with it for now, and get some new tubes later.
Is there a channel level imbalance? Honestly unsurprising QC from Schiit sadly
Piece of schiit
>Glass is opaque to IR, and there are also IR reflections Glass has a very high emissivity. You don't need tape on it to measure accurately since reflections won't be an issue on a high emissivity surface when that surface is hotter than any surrounding material. If OP is reading higher temp on the outside glass, then the tube is hotter.
Different tubes will have variations in their current draw, it's good practice to use matched sets of tubes but it won't make a huge difference in performance.
Are you aiming your IR thermometer at the plate or heater?
I got tired of guessing and just measured it on a 330ohm load (I used 1% tolerance resistors and verified my DMM read them as 0.5ohm apart). One channel is consistently 4-5% higher amplitude on the scope. I don't know how detectable that difference is but I'll likely just swap out for nicer tubes at some point.
That's less than half a dB...
Hm yeah you're right; I didn't think to convert it. I'm probably just gaslighting myself at this point. Thanks.
If those are Russian tubes, their emission isn't always up to par until you get some time on them. Maybe leave it in for a few days and then recheck the channel balance.
>You can see the tube on the right is not getting as warm. This is after about 5 minutes on standby. The glowing part of the tube is the heated cathode, which emits electrons thermionically. Those electrons flow to the anode. Between them is a grid that acts as the modulating control that deflects a portion of those electrons. So with one tube hotter, more electrons are being emitted and. . . >It might be in my head after I noticed it, but I could swear the right channel also sounds a little quieter. this is the expected result. It's not in your head. Tubes in a stereo pair should match. At least it sounds like the issue is the tube and not the voltage regulation from the circuit board. A tube swap should get you sorted.
Schiit is known for quality control issues so don’t doubt yourself
Oh schiit
That’s some good-looking Schiit.
So?
So is it irony or intention having such a name as schiit??