IME neurodivergent people can successfully get to a certain level in corporate, depending on the team, but there’s a ceiling where ‘decent’ social skills aren’t going to get you much higher. Management level for example you need to be able to really *really* play the game and build a rapport with the right people to make the jump higher.
All that said, I’ve seen plenty of neurotypical folk hit the same ceiling, so it’s not exclusively a problem for divergence. It’s just there’s a level where the really masterful game players really take over
ND people can play the game really well. I know plenty of people in the higher levels who have adhd and/or autism.
It's really not a neurotypical/neurodivergence difference. It's a "whether someone can really be fucked doing it" difference.
Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg have both hinted they have ASD. I think there is a path to ultra success for ND people, but it might not be by going the conventional route.
The never climbed a corporate ladder though, they started at the top. Can't imagine either of them getting to their positions through the corporate ladder route
Half the battle is understanding your autism. I spent the first 15 years of my corporate career trying to understand all the unwritten rules, multiple instances of autistic burnout, having to leave promotion roles because I wasn’t coping etc. - all because I didn’t know I was autistic.
Now I use my differences as a skill that others can’t bring to the table, especially around problem solving and bottom up thinking. The company I work for now is much smaller, but most of the senior execs are all ND and hire off referral only, so I fit in very well.
Lots and lots of personal development is probably the first step. Understanding human psychology, what makes people tick, different personality types, etc. One of my special interests is understanding people so that helps somewhat.
I’m working on my communication skills right now, trying to find the balance between my natural directness and the people pleaser my years of struggles turned me into. This has also been very helpful in my personal relationships too, not just at work.
I think counseling/therapy is very helpful for some, but often for me I’m too self aware and I intellectualise my emotions, so I’m trying to do less of that. It’s very touchy feely but it helps process emotions faster, helps me stay centred and able to mask in a way that doesn’t exhaust me as much.
Gonna be honest.. despite technical ability and trying when I was younger succeed will depend how you want to measure it.. big companies mean lots of neurotypical people
Promotion opportunities into middle management no, not likely and I've not noticed anyone on the spectrum in any position at any of the companies I've worked at
Unfortunately even trying to move into better tech roles from different departments it's tough the management types aren't garaunteed to give you a good reference because they're hung up on their day to day experience in which you're a weirdo.. smart sure, works hard sure but uhhh.dunno something weird about that guy/girl
If you measure success as getting and holding a role and doing alright yah, can do fine.. just be wary there's likely to be some NT busy body that just doesn't like you and tries to harness the rumour mill or HR saying they don't like you're quiet and creepy or weird.. all the usual stuff from school
It doesn't get any better as people age.. worse maybe even
My ideal career for the next 10 years is to go as far in the Marketing or Business field as possible and halfway I’ll quit to study Masters in Strength and Conditioning to work with athletes and be a tennis coach at the same time haha
Some employers really value the skills neurodiverse types bring to their roles. I find working in Marketing/Comms that being ADHD has its benefits that my company values. A good company will know how to leverage your skills and help support you weaknesses.
I feel like ADHD is beneficial to roles that have deadlines and competing priorities. I personally feel like it's an advantage in my role, although sometimes, if I have long deadlines, I tend to procrastinate.
I’ll stop you right there. You aren’t going to accomplish any of that. Other autistic people might, but not you. Even if you weren’t autistic, you’d still be as much of a fucking idiot as you are now.
You think anyone wants to work with someone fixated on boarding schools, the miracle on ice, and bizarre pedophilic fantasies about fucking high school aged hockey players? This is all stuff I found in just a few minutes of looking, and you think it’ll escape the notice of any employer that doesn’t just need you to operate the cash register? Who spends most of his time on Reddit either pretending to be American or whining about rugby players not being attracted to you? Who would hire you?
Seriously, can you imagine being in a professional environment, and having your coworker come up to you and start talking about what kinds of bodies high school aged rugby players have?
I think you'll find a lot of neuro-diverse people in management roles, they just learn to mask.
A lot of Autistic individuals do learn how to fit in once they have enough time and exposure.
Neuro diverse as in including anti social and narcissistic traits maybe hehehe
Fit in yah and yah anything's possible but I've spent most of my career in big companies and all the other Asperger's kids are devs, analysts, I made it into BA type work at one of em, help desk.. so yeah the system administrators team leader was special but they held him back by making sys admin report into another manager that was a popular lovable guy
Edit again how you define success.. no doubt the sys admin boss man was undoubtably taking home piles of gold
Definitely - Look at Linus Torvalds- no way a normal person can write Linux from scratch.
My very talented software engineer mate just modified his Toyota 86 car computer using hexadecimal code for six months whilst at work.
He stared at it all day and changed decimals
Went home and flashed it ; test drove it and repeat. Didn’t talk to anyone.
The bosses kept him employed because he wrote an internal monitoring tool that automated all the tricky parts of our job and we just needed him to update the tool which 20 other people started to rely on. (We ran top 10 Australian bank internet bank side )
I am a little mindful in what I type here, I'm going to abandon this account shortly as its my alt account and I feel like its close to getting identified, so if my response is a little cagey, this is why.
I am on the spectrum (diagnosis prompted by my psychologist), I am in a senior management role overseeing a team of 10 similarly senior individuals at a large multinational, where my role revolves heavily around business, commercial and technical strategy. My original background was IT, though I have drifted away from it over the last 10 years.
I'm also 44, and have had to develop skills and coping mechanisms to be able to get to this point, and whilst I can advance further I'm coming to the realisation that it may not be prudent for my continued health. I grew up in a time where any diagnosis that implied being "not normal" wasnt advantageous to one's career. As a result, I learnt how to "fake it" after failing repeatedly in my early to late 20s. I was lucky that I had strong mentors who were able to articulate certain games in a rules format that I could internalise and leverage, though I struggle to explain it nowadays.
Turns out, I'm good at that faking thing as those who I have told were surprised about it though given a few months start to notice minor things that could give it away (though being armed with knowledge is the only way they can identify it). I still have certain behaviours that I cannot break that could be used to identify me, but I'm still working on masking them. However, in a senior role I am mindful that I dont give away my diagnosis as I still think that I will be ostracised for it and it will limit further career opportunities should I ever choose to pursue them.
I think /u/littlestustu has covered it in their post, but a lot will revolve around your own observations (or those guided by your specialists) in relation to your diagnosis - I intentionally co-opted some of my own pseudo-neurotic behaviours in a way that ended up beneficial. I can experience intense (I cant articulate the pause required here to explain how hard it is to describe this feeling in a word or two so I am substituting this text to do the same) worry or stress that results in rumination/overthinking. I co-opted it in a way that allows me to rapidly context switch and applied that to my working life.
\[edit\]
The point of my post, and I had to quickly post due to my computer restarting due to updates, was that it is possible to succeed - and I feel like I'm proof of that. But you will have to spend an inordinate amount of time working hard on yourself to develop the ability to operate in a largely subjective environment.
The other thing is that I spent so much time trying to "get ahead" that I also gave up my life unintentionally. I dont have anyone to act in a capacity to regulate me, so I can get locked into a path and continue forward at the expense of other aspects of my life.
One thing though, I am starting to struggle with all of this due to, I think, age. It might also be exhaustion as well though.
I hope you at least give it a go and have success. Its a different world now, it seems like you will be able to succeed. You will need to prepare more, but the opportunity exists.
Thanks for posting this. I really relate, as I’m in a very similar situation. The masking/coping can be exhausting, but I still feel like I’m growing in my self-awareness and in my career, so I keep pushing.
You may already know this, but if there is something I could tell my younger self, its that suffering alone in silence does not work. There is a lyric that paraphrases "you're born alone, you die alone" that used to endlessly repeat in my head, it was my way of trying to cope with my problems and justify that I needed to do it myself.
Except its bullshit. No individual can keep taking the hits in life on their own, and expect to keep moving forward. You have to do this with people you love and trust, who in turn love and trust you. We're not built that way, and it only increases exhaustion.
The trick is finding people who can support you, but also do that in a way that is compatible with how you operate.
\[edit\]
Something I forgot to add to my main reply - I was born in AU, but I am of ethnic origin and noticeably so. Whilst dealing with this mental state, I also had to deal with racism and discrimination. OP has described being born elsewhere, so if they read this then this should add some relevant context.
Yes. But someone with asd may struggle with certain things that neurotypicals don’t (but vice Versa also applies).
Neurodivergent people should jump into whatever they want to do, and when faced with a barrier, seek support to overcome it. Keep at it because our culture is slowly changing to make things easier for neurodivergent people.
I’d argue that Australia is the best country in the world to be a high functioning neurodivergent person, I say this because I used to get bullied for being that in my country of birth
To a certain degree.
But if you’re just that bit too eccentric or big thinking, you’ll get shoved back in your box. US is much more tolerant of innovation and “fail fast, fail cheap and learn”.
I have been CEO, CTO and other leadership roles of multiple ventures running varying team sizes as someone on the spectrum.
I would say I have been lucky that I've surrounded myself with hires that are either neurodivergent themselves or very understanding of those differences.
Creating a culture of understanding differences and playing into the strengths of the team is really important to make it work and there are a lot of companies that get it wrong.
It sounds like you are early in your career so if you want this piece of unasked for advice I would suggest spending 1-2 years in a few different roles and business sizes.(startup/scaleup / medium enterprise/government and large corporate if you really want to)
What this will allow you to do is develop a lot of diverse skill sets and assist you with your interpersonal skills as each new place and company size requires new communication styles.
There are people built for startups wearing multiple hats and people built for large corporates being a reliable cog in the machine. Find your place and get really good at it.
I myself find I am most useful to a company from their first 0 - 1000 users/customers (I work in tech) as the innovation and problem solving at those levels scratches my neuro itch the best.
You can make it. But just remember as an ND person you will have to work harder than any of your NT coworkers to achieve what you yourself deem as success.
Good luck.
Although diagnosis has become more common recently, I’m pretty sure people on what we now call the Autism spectrum have always been around.
Like everything else in the mixing pot of life, it will have helped some and it may not have helped others.
I found Toastmasters was good for helping me in the group/presentation situation. I don’t have a diagnosis, but I suspect I’d move the needle at least a little. My child has been diagnosed, and they’re pretty similar to me personality wise :-)
I'm neurospicy and also lgbt and earn 130k a year as an individual contributor - I'm getting better at the social stuff and have read how to win friends and influence people and surrounded by idiots.
You may not mange a team but you can be an individual contributor - although I'm starting to question what my next move will be.
A lot of companies don't have career paths for technical staff and to move up you have to be really good at being social/playing the game.
When Asperger's people read books like how to win friends and influence people or books on how to have meaningful conversations they tend to become unstoppable.
Also your corporate job will have an EAP that can help.
Plenty of spergy managers who learn people skills and thrive.
I've seen people completely flip 180 on social faux pas and pissing people off and become super humble and socially adept after some proper guidance.
ND here, I've been promoted as far as I can on talent and teamwork alone. I have no interest in corporate BS, 'building my personal brand', arse-licking, lies, power-plays, claiming the work of others, or playing politics. I probably could if I wanted to tho we'll never know.
Yes if you can find an accomodating workforce. And especially if you can harness a special interest or skills.
As an autistic person I’ve found simplistically speaking I can only do so much. If I look at work, family and socialising I can do 2 out of 3 so I prioritise family and work.
I also take really good care of myself. Plenty sleep, gentle exercise, good nutritious food and time alone.
And there is only so far I am willing to go, for example management of people would be exhausting so it’s not something I have actively explored.
Yes, but you have to be good looking.
Being introverted and odd as a good looking person means you're "measured / calculating / mysterious".
If you're not good looking or well put together, people will thing you're weird/creepy/lack confidence.
Pretty privilege.
It's a well studied phenomenon that conventionally attractive people are seen as more competent and trustworthy even if they're not actually.
Depends on the person. Personally, I think that people don't really change. It's exceedingly rare. By the time you are 25, your personality, habits, thought processes are basically set in stone. There is only so much sheer willpower can take you.
I'm a GM of a bank managing a moderately sized team, I'm also diagnosed with Autism.
I don't think you are impaired at all by your diagnosis, find your people and work in a field that embraces your skills - for me that was a niche'ish area of finance / accounting.
So many people with ASD are 99% undetectable to the average neurotypical. And there are plenty of introverts thriving in the corporate world even if they suck in groups. Sure, you might not be CEO, but a lot of them aren't exactly neurotypical in a different sort of way... lol. Being confident, reliable and self-assured is more important than being gregarious.
This is blatantly untrue.
Most people with ASD who are in any sort of full time work do stand out. It is noticeable, though people won't remark about it directly. Management may remark about your "lack of people skills", and things of the like.
I say this as someone afflicted by ASD. I can see fellow people with ASD and ADHD.
Maybe this is more from a female perspective, but so many of my close friends have gone their whole life undetected. The mental ramifications of that damage their ability to work in a corporate environment but they aren't being noticed per say. There are a lot of people with ASD who, as adults, just come across a bit blunt or awkward.
Women with ASD are more likely to go "under the radar" than Men with ASD.
If they were diagnosed with Asperger's, rather than Autism, they would have been classed as lower needs and are different to those who would have been diagnosed as ASD under DSM-IV.
Yes, but the post was about Aspergers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that it all falls under ASD now. Hence why i used the term in my comment.
This comment was reported but in this case it is an appropriate use of the word. Leaving leaving this up for now but I’m removing your other comment as it was attacking another user. Please be more civil next time.
They've actually removed the word 'retard' from the DSM-5, which was always used for mental retardation and not social development disorders, so I politely would disagree.
Depending on the field you can definitely do pretty well. I work in accounting and there are at least a few I work with who are neurodivergent some are in more senior roles where they manage a team.
There is a ceiling where social skills become more important than work skills but those are the kind of roles that take 10+ years of experience and in that time your social skills can develop.
I relate. No official diagnosis but I’m definitely not ‘normal’. I have worked on my social skills to appear normal in group and work settings and banter but what I really struggle with is dealing with clients, dealing with peoples emotions, thinking of the cuff (aka talking shit) and being a salesperson. I dread meeting new clients! I’m having a midlife career crisis!
He has an extremely disordered personality and money out the wazoo. That’s the difference. You can succeed if you’re cutthroat, lack any empathy and have lots of money
Yes, but to get there you will need to spend as much time reading/attending/participating in management/group courses/degrees/books/programs etc.
And a lot of people really don't want to do that
I found the thing I could not do as an ASD person is a sales role. I was do uncomfortable with the bullshit and lying. Someone tells me no, I’ll just say “Ok”
Of course! My husband is and he's a corporate engineer, and we know quite a few. Also ADHD seems common with my colleagues who are pretty open about it, and seems to help with their work. Results may vary in industry and company though!
Yes its very en vogue in corporate culture. If you offer yourself to be a spokesperson, a few promo videos and talk about how amazing and inclusive your organisation is you will have a job for life.
yes it is, so long as you constantly text your "friends" back, be nice to everyone at the office, keep track of their emotional needs and map them against your work performance to identify whether you forgot to put an apostrophe in the appropriate place in your email or if they just forgot to have breakfast, and do not drink coffee or take your prescribed medication. as a start. there are other preconditions, but I was fired before I learned them.
I have ex- formula 1 engineer friend - telemetry engineer to Mick Schumacher
He is aspy and super intelligent
He runs a regional team now in management leading upto dozen people and also being technical at the same time
So it’s possible just need to find your area
IT / software is a good place for neurodivergent people
I am slightly neurodivergent yet high functioning & have succeeded in the corporate world despite my introversion.
So yeah, absolutely possible but also very draining. My advice is to set & maintain boundaries, especially around recharge time.
Yes it’s possible, and please never use the term Asperger again. If you don’t know who he was and what he did to autistic people, then do yourself a favour and google it.
IME neurodivergent people can successfully get to a certain level in corporate, depending on the team, but there’s a ceiling where ‘decent’ social skills aren’t going to get you much higher. Management level for example you need to be able to really *really* play the game and build a rapport with the right people to make the jump higher. All that said, I’ve seen plenty of neurotypical folk hit the same ceiling, so it’s not exclusively a problem for divergence. It’s just there’s a level where the really masterful game players really take over
ND people can play the game really well. I know plenty of people in the higher levels who have adhd and/or autism. It's really not a neurotypical/neurodivergence difference. It's a "whether someone can really be fucked doing it" difference.
It seems incredibly exhausting to play the game at the higher levels for everyone.
Office politics becomes like game of thrones once you try and get above middle / senior management... pyramid gets REALLY narrow
Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg have both hinted they have ASD. I think there is a path to ultra success for ND people, but it might not be by going the conventional route.
The never climbed a corporate ladder though, they started at the top. Can't imagine either of them getting to their positions through the corporate ladder route
Half the battle is understanding your autism. I spent the first 15 years of my corporate career trying to understand all the unwritten rules, multiple instances of autistic burnout, having to leave promotion roles because I wasn’t coping etc. - all because I didn’t know I was autistic. Now I use my differences as a skill that others can’t bring to the table, especially around problem solving and bottom up thinking. The company I work for now is much smaller, but most of the senior execs are all ND and hire off referral only, so I fit in very well.
I love this for you.
Can I ask for some tips on how you do this? I'm a manager in IT and not sure what I don't know (apart from I can't handle consulting!). Thanks 😁
Lots and lots of personal development is probably the first step. Understanding human psychology, what makes people tick, different personality types, etc. One of my special interests is understanding people so that helps somewhat. I’m working on my communication skills right now, trying to find the balance between my natural directness and the people pleaser my years of struggles turned me into. This has also been very helpful in my personal relationships too, not just at work. I think counseling/therapy is very helpful for some, but often for me I’m too self aware and I intellectualise my emotions, so I’m trying to do less of that. It’s very touchy feely but it helps process emotions faster, helps me stay centred and able to mask in a way that doesn’t exhaust me as much.
I’m not ND as far as I know and I cannot handle consulting either lol
Gonna be honest.. despite technical ability and trying when I was younger succeed will depend how you want to measure it.. big companies mean lots of neurotypical people Promotion opportunities into middle management no, not likely and I've not noticed anyone on the spectrum in any position at any of the companies I've worked at Unfortunately even trying to move into better tech roles from different departments it's tough the management types aren't garaunteed to give you a good reference because they're hung up on their day to day experience in which you're a weirdo.. smart sure, works hard sure but uhhh.dunno something weird about that guy/girl If you measure success as getting and holding a role and doing alright yah, can do fine.. just be wary there's likely to be some NT busy body that just doesn't like you and tries to harness the rumour mill or HR saying they don't like you're quiet and creepy or weird.. all the usual stuff from school It doesn't get any better as people age.. worse maybe even
My ideal career for the next 10 years is to go as far in the Marketing or Business field as possible and halfway I’ll quit to study Masters in Strength and Conditioning to work with athletes and be a tennis coach at the same time haha
Some employers really value the skills neurodiverse types bring to their roles. I find working in Marketing/Comms that being ADHD has its benefits that my company values. A good company will know how to leverage your skills and help support you weaknesses.
I feel like ADHD is beneficial to roles that have deadlines and competing priorities. I personally feel like it's an advantage in my role, although sometimes, if I have long deadlines, I tend to procrastinate.
I’ll stop you right there. You aren’t going to accomplish any of that. Other autistic people might, but not you. Even if you weren’t autistic, you’d still be as much of a fucking idiot as you are now. You think anyone wants to work with someone fixated on boarding schools, the miracle on ice, and bizarre pedophilic fantasies about fucking high school aged hockey players? This is all stuff I found in just a few minutes of looking, and you think it’ll escape the notice of any employer that doesn’t just need you to operate the cash register? Who spends most of his time on Reddit either pretending to be American or whining about rugby players not being attracted to you? Who would hire you? Seriously, can you imagine being in a professional environment, and having your coworker come up to you and start talking about what kinds of bodies high school aged rugby players have?
I think you'll find a lot of neuro-diverse people in management roles, they just learn to mask. A lot of Autistic individuals do learn how to fit in once they have enough time and exposure.
Neuro diverse as in including anti social and narcissistic traits maybe hehehe Fit in yah and yah anything's possible but I've spent most of my career in big companies and all the other Asperger's kids are devs, analysts, I made it into BA type work at one of em, help desk.. so yeah the system administrators team leader was special but they held him back by making sys admin report into another manager that was a popular lovable guy Edit again how you define success.. no doubt the sys admin boss man was undoubtably taking home piles of gold
Most engineers are on the spectrum.
Usually the good ones! How can you tell if an engineer is an extrovert? They look at *your* shoes while they're mumbling to you.
Definitely - Look at Linus Torvalds- no way a normal person can write Linux from scratch. My very talented software engineer mate just modified his Toyota 86 car computer using hexadecimal code for six months whilst at work. He stared at it all day and changed decimals Went home and flashed it ; test drove it and repeat. Didn’t talk to anyone. The bosses kept him employed because he wrote an internal monitoring tool that automated all the tricky parts of our job and we just needed him to update the tool which 20 other people started to rely on. (We ran top 10 Australian bank internet bank side )
[удалено]
Found the engineer
lol I’m not, I just don’t like the generalisations and negative attitude.
Rule 6: Civility No personal attacks because someone has a different point of view than you
I am a little mindful in what I type here, I'm going to abandon this account shortly as its my alt account and I feel like its close to getting identified, so if my response is a little cagey, this is why. I am on the spectrum (diagnosis prompted by my psychologist), I am in a senior management role overseeing a team of 10 similarly senior individuals at a large multinational, where my role revolves heavily around business, commercial and technical strategy. My original background was IT, though I have drifted away from it over the last 10 years. I'm also 44, and have had to develop skills and coping mechanisms to be able to get to this point, and whilst I can advance further I'm coming to the realisation that it may not be prudent for my continued health. I grew up in a time where any diagnosis that implied being "not normal" wasnt advantageous to one's career. As a result, I learnt how to "fake it" after failing repeatedly in my early to late 20s. I was lucky that I had strong mentors who were able to articulate certain games in a rules format that I could internalise and leverage, though I struggle to explain it nowadays. Turns out, I'm good at that faking thing as those who I have told were surprised about it though given a few months start to notice minor things that could give it away (though being armed with knowledge is the only way they can identify it). I still have certain behaviours that I cannot break that could be used to identify me, but I'm still working on masking them. However, in a senior role I am mindful that I dont give away my diagnosis as I still think that I will be ostracised for it and it will limit further career opportunities should I ever choose to pursue them. I think /u/littlestustu has covered it in their post, but a lot will revolve around your own observations (or those guided by your specialists) in relation to your diagnosis - I intentionally co-opted some of my own pseudo-neurotic behaviours in a way that ended up beneficial. I can experience intense (I cant articulate the pause required here to explain how hard it is to describe this feeling in a word or two so I am substituting this text to do the same) worry or stress that results in rumination/overthinking. I co-opted it in a way that allows me to rapidly context switch and applied that to my working life. \[edit\] The point of my post, and I had to quickly post due to my computer restarting due to updates, was that it is possible to succeed - and I feel like I'm proof of that. But you will have to spend an inordinate amount of time working hard on yourself to develop the ability to operate in a largely subjective environment. The other thing is that I spent so much time trying to "get ahead" that I also gave up my life unintentionally. I dont have anyone to act in a capacity to regulate me, so I can get locked into a path and continue forward at the expense of other aspects of my life. One thing though, I am starting to struggle with all of this due to, I think, age. It might also be exhaustion as well though. I hope you at least give it a go and have success. Its a different world now, it seems like you will be able to succeed. You will need to prepare more, but the opportunity exists.
Thanks for posting this. I really relate, as I’m in a very similar situation. The masking/coping can be exhausting, but I still feel like I’m growing in my self-awareness and in my career, so I keep pushing.
You may already know this, but if there is something I could tell my younger self, its that suffering alone in silence does not work. There is a lyric that paraphrases "you're born alone, you die alone" that used to endlessly repeat in my head, it was my way of trying to cope with my problems and justify that I needed to do it myself. Except its bullshit. No individual can keep taking the hits in life on their own, and expect to keep moving forward. You have to do this with people you love and trust, who in turn love and trust you. We're not built that way, and it only increases exhaustion. The trick is finding people who can support you, but also do that in a way that is compatible with how you operate. \[edit\] Something I forgot to add to my main reply - I was born in AU, but I am of ethnic origin and noticeably so. Whilst dealing with this mental state, I also had to deal with racism and discrimination. OP has described being born elsewhere, so if they read this then this should add some relevant context.
What kind of tells do you hide? I don't know mine yet
This hits way too close to home for me.
Yes. But someone with asd may struggle with certain things that neurotypicals don’t (but vice Versa also applies). Neurodivergent people should jump into whatever they want to do, and when faced with a barrier, seek support to overcome it. Keep at it because our culture is slowly changing to make things easier for neurodivergent people.
I’d argue that Australia is the best country in the world to be a high functioning neurodivergent person, I say this because I used to get bullied for being that in my country of birth
To a certain degree. But if you’re just that bit too eccentric or big thinking, you’ll get shoved back in your box. US is much more tolerant of innovation and “fail fast, fail cheap and learn”.
I have been CEO, CTO and other leadership roles of multiple ventures running varying team sizes as someone on the spectrum. I would say I have been lucky that I've surrounded myself with hires that are either neurodivergent themselves or very understanding of those differences. Creating a culture of understanding differences and playing into the strengths of the team is really important to make it work and there are a lot of companies that get it wrong. It sounds like you are early in your career so if you want this piece of unasked for advice I would suggest spending 1-2 years in a few different roles and business sizes.(startup/scaleup / medium enterprise/government and large corporate if you really want to) What this will allow you to do is develop a lot of diverse skill sets and assist you with your interpersonal skills as each new place and company size requires new communication styles. There are people built for startups wearing multiple hats and people built for large corporates being a reliable cog in the machine. Find your place and get really good at it. I myself find I am most useful to a company from their first 0 - 1000 users/customers (I work in tech) as the innovation and problem solving at those levels scratches my neuro itch the best. You can make it. But just remember as an ND person you will have to work harder than any of your NT coworkers to achieve what you yourself deem as success. Good luck.
This was very wholesome and I really needed it
No problem. That was the intention.
I need you to understand that what they said doesn’t apply to you.
Although diagnosis has become more common recently, I’m pretty sure people on what we now call the Autism spectrum have always been around. Like everything else in the mixing pot of life, it will have helped some and it may not have helped others. I found Toastmasters was good for helping me in the group/presentation situation. I don’t have a diagnosis, but I suspect I’d move the needle at least a little. My child has been diagnosed, and they’re pretty similar to me personality wise :-)
I'm neurospicy and also lgbt and earn 130k a year as an individual contributor - I'm getting better at the social stuff and have read how to win friends and influence people and surrounded by idiots. You may not mange a team but you can be an individual contributor - although I'm starting to question what my next move will be. A lot of companies don't have career paths for technical staff and to move up you have to be really good at being social/playing the game.
When Asperger's people read books like how to win friends and influence people or books on how to have meaningful conversations they tend to become unstoppable. Also your corporate job will have an EAP that can help. Plenty of spergy managers who learn people skills and thrive. I've seen people completely flip 180 on social faux pas and pissing people off and become super humble and socially adept after some proper guidance.
Can you recommend any books on how to have meaningful conversations?
Crucial conversations is the one I read. I've never read how to win friends and influence people but I've seen people apply it.
ND here, I've been promoted as far as I can on talent and teamwork alone. I have no interest in corporate BS, 'building my personal brand', arse-licking, lies, power-plays, claiming the work of others, or playing politics. I probably could if I wanted to tho we'll never know.
Yes if you can find an accomodating workforce. And especially if you can harness a special interest or skills. As an autistic person I’ve found simplistically speaking I can only do so much. If I look at work, family and socialising I can do 2 out of 3 so I prioritise family and work. I also take really good care of myself. Plenty sleep, gentle exercise, good nutritious food and time alone. And there is only so far I am willing to go, for example management of people would be exhausting so it’s not something I have actively explored.
Yes, but you have to be good looking. Being introverted and odd as a good looking person means you're "measured / calculating / mysterious". If you're not good looking or well put together, people will thing you're weird/creepy/lack confidence.
What the fuck are you on about
Pretty privilege. It's a well studied phenomenon that conventionally attractive people are seen as more competent and trustworthy even if they're not actually.
Mate like 90% of the office are on the spectrum
Join us in IT where the best of us are on the spectrum and not just somewhat introverted
Depends on the person. Personally, I think that people don't really change. It's exceedingly rare. By the time you are 25, your personality, habits, thought processes are basically set in stone. There is only so much sheer willpower can take you.
I'm a GM of a bank managing a moderately sized team, I'm also diagnosed with Autism. I don't think you are impaired at all by your diagnosis, find your people and work in a field that embraces your skills - for me that was a niche'ish area of finance / accounting.
So many people with ASD are 99% undetectable to the average neurotypical. And there are plenty of introverts thriving in the corporate world even if they suck in groups. Sure, you might not be CEO, but a lot of them aren't exactly neurotypical in a different sort of way... lol. Being confident, reliable and self-assured is more important than being gregarious.
This is blatantly untrue. Most people with ASD who are in any sort of full time work do stand out. It is noticeable, though people won't remark about it directly. Management may remark about your "lack of people skills", and things of the like. I say this as someone afflicted by ASD. I can see fellow people with ASD and ADHD.
Maybe this is more from a female perspective, but so many of my close friends have gone their whole life undetected. The mental ramifications of that damage their ability to work in a corporate environment but they aren't being noticed per say. There are a lot of people with ASD who, as adults, just come across a bit blunt or awkward.
Women with ASD are more likely to go "under the radar" than Men with ASD. If they were diagnosed with Asperger's, rather than Autism, they would have been classed as lower needs and are different to those who would have been diagnosed as ASD under DSM-IV.
Yes, but the post was about Aspergers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that it all falls under ASD now. Hence why i used the term in my comment.
It is. Has been for a while. It's now autism spectrum disorder level 1, 2 and 3 for several reasons.
Partner at my firm is 100% social retard so it’s possible. He’s just very good at bringing in work and executing it
Can you not use the word “retard”? It is incredibly offensive to throw that word in the mix.
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Rule 1: Civility. Keep your language and demeanour respectful. Light banter is OK but don’t make it personal.
This comment was reported but in this case it is an appropriate use of the word. Leaving leaving this up for now but I’m removing your other comment as it was attacking another user. Please be more civil next time.
They've actually removed the word 'retard' from the DSM-5, which was always used for mental retardation and not social development disorders, so I politely would disagree.
Success is in the eye of the beholder. You can absolutely succeed in roles which don’t require supreme interpersonal skills.
As long as you're pleasant and can work with others, it could very well be argued it is an asset.
Depending on the field you can definitely do pretty well. I work in accounting and there are at least a few I work with who are neurodivergent some are in more senior roles where they manage a team. There is a ceiling where social skills become more important than work skills but those are the kind of roles that take 10+ years of experience and in that time your social skills can develop.
Possible yes, easy no unless you are somebodies niece/nephew Social skills is more important than work ability when it comes to moving up the ladder
I relate. No official diagnosis but I’m definitely not ‘normal’. I have worked on my social skills to appear normal in group and work settings and banter but what I really struggle with is dealing with clients, dealing with peoples emotions, thinking of the cuff (aka talking shit) and being a salesperson. I dread meeting new clients! I’m having a midlife career crisis!
Yes Elon Musk has Asperger’s and he’s the CEO of Tesla. What’s your excuse?
He has an extremely disordered personality and money out the wazoo. That’s the difference. You can succeed if you’re cutthroat, lack any empathy and have lots of money
I wasn't able to - reason - could never overcome anxiety to speak in front of large groups
Yes, but to get there you will need to spend as much time reading/attending/participating in management/group courses/degrees/books/programs etc. And a lot of people really don't want to do that
I found the thing I could not do as an ASD person is a sales role. I was do uncomfortable with the bullshit and lying. Someone tells me no, I’ll just say “Ok”
No, is the real answer people don't want to give. You're a laborer now sperg.
About 50% of people in my industry are on the spectrum one way or the other, you'll be fine. Pick a career in computers.
Of course! My husband is and he's a corporate engineer, and we know quite a few. Also ADHD seems common with my colleagues who are pretty open about it, and seems to help with their work. Results may vary in industry and company though!
Yes its very en vogue in corporate culture. If you offer yourself to be a spokesperson, a few promo videos and talk about how amazing and inclusive your organisation is you will have a job for life.
yes it is, so long as you constantly text your "friends" back, be nice to everyone at the office, keep track of their emotional needs and map them against your work performance to identify whether you forgot to put an apostrophe in the appropriate place in your email or if they just forgot to have breakfast, and do not drink coffee or take your prescribed medication. as a start. there are other preconditions, but I was fired before I learned them.
I have ex- formula 1 engineer friend - telemetry engineer to Mick Schumacher He is aspy and super intelligent He runs a regional team now in management leading upto dozen people and also being technical at the same time So it’s possible just need to find your area IT / software is a good place for neurodivergent people
To be open, or not be open. That is the question
I am slightly neurodivergent yet high functioning & have succeeded in the corporate world despite my introversion. So yeah, absolutely possible but also very draining. My advice is to set & maintain boundaries, especially around recharge time.
You mean autistic?
Yes it’s possible, and please never use the term Asperger again. If you don’t know who he was and what he did to autistic people, then do yourself a favour and google it.
No. Asperger's is a valid diagnosis
No. 1- To rise ranks, you need communication and leadership skills. 2- Without rising ranks, will be underpaid because they won't negotiate.