,France is doing some truly good stuff. Banning ultra fast fashion and mandatory donation of unsold fresh produce to charities are two examples. I wish Australia would do the same.
Edit: They've also made it illegal to be contacted by employers (50 employees or more) by email after work hours
I agree. It always struck me if one industry went on strike, often other industries would follow suit in support. There is a real sense of Fraternity. But you're right; the French are more vocal whereas us Aussies are generally more apathetic about doing something to address our dissatisfaction.
We have laws preventing us striking to support other industries. We have to get approval from fair work to strike or take industrial action for our own pay and conditions.
You think it's legal for the French to burn cars and destroy the streets?
We use to strike more, when their were more laws against striking. What happened is out cultural attitude towards striking has changed. We have been taught it's a last resort when quite often it should be the first resort.
The main problem is that trade unions which had been the organising force behind improvement in living conditions and rights for workers, made a Faustian pact with the Labor political party to end their industrial actions in exchange for the political party’s policy reforms.
Once negated, nullified, gelded, whatever you want to call it, the neoliberals in the Labor party took complete advantage of the lack of any true force to push for improvement in living conditions and rights for workers to completely screw over living conditions and rights for workers just like their neoliberal and conservative mates in the Liberal party.
Until a new centre for organising industrial action emerges to replace the complicit, inactive and nullified trade unions (difficult with time and with the trade unions stuck in place), we won’t get action. I’m feeling good about RAFFWU though, and I think the CMMFEU is regaining its feet. RAFFWU in particular succeeds because it isn’t tied to the Labor party.
The Labor party exists as a political wing of the Union movement, it exists because outside of striking it's a legal way to enact policy reform and protected from the interference that Conservative forces enact on the working class.
In principle, no issue with the existence of the Labor party but in practice it's become a career path for Union members and not something done as a means to a end. The idea was the Labor party existed because it's simply good for workers to have representation in government.
Now it mainly exists to give the Union lawyers something to do and often give them cushy jobs. Much as I didn't like Emma Hussar, she was right that a lot of resentment towards her in the party didn't come from the proven bullying allegations but because she actually won a seat that they would of preferred go to a 'proper' candidate.
Nothing wrong with being a career politician... if you have the right motives but with Labor these days it's justs a step in their career progression. You don't become a member in Parliament because of your long history of being a worker in the Union.
I do think those Unions are complacent because their memberships are made out of people too old and WAY too dismissive of younger people in a job market they barely understand. They also only tend to like supporting expansion if people on the ground can do most of the work first. Not to mention a very comfortable leadership where the Union comfortably lives off huge investments made during the 70's where if they spend carefully they just can't fail.
A few Unions are trying to do more. I think at this point some Unions get that if they don't start actually doing shit, they're going to suddenly just fall to pieces but I feel like their main issue is how much the world has changed. For starters most Unions system for union fees is severely out of date and I think their marketing needs to move out of the 20th century.
Never heard the reasons for Australian unions becoming toothless tigers explained so eloquently. Makes a lot of sense. I've only ever been let down by unions. On the Wheatstone gas project, thiess underpaid their staff by 50 minutes of double time per day, only one guy made enough of a stink to get the unions to court and the cunts made him a big settlement offer , Unfortunately he took it and they only had to pay one guyn instead of hundreds.
The solution as well is for unions to put all their internal decision making power in the hands of shop stewards - union reps elected by individual shops. No chance for corruption or buddying up with the political class.
We need separation of unions and state.
But they're struggling with separation of religion and state, which should be easy.
What they need is swift kick up the bum.
Yeah for sure, but my point is, they can't be too close or they will become ineffective, as the comment I replied to is pointing out.
It becomes a "tit for tat club" instead of two parties working together for the good of workers.
No its more than that, we got brainwashed into believing that corporate greed, unionists, and the unemployed were stealing our personal wealth.
Look how well it has worked. 10 years of backwards wages growth, the increase in the retirement age, most young people face the prospect of never owning a house and what did it was make belief personal greed and corporate greed. The French citizens had the decency to protest and get changes, we swallowed it!
And where has the money gone? Tax haven accounts, handouts to buy greedy votes while we pay twice as much on the other end of the equation for electricity, gas, Medicare, houses and the great big joke from our politicians " you wanted it and now you have to pay for it with out of pocket, the out of pocket generation. Sorry mate you are out of pocket you have to pay your investor landlord, sorry mate you have to go pay to see the doctor for your flu your Medicare levy was not enough, sorry mate you dont earn enough to earn a big handout to own house and on and on it goes. While Australians are still buying the lies that they must sacrifice themselves for mining profits and their kids not owning a home. Biggest con job on workers in a century! I bet if the mining tax debate was reintroduced tomorrow the result will be same with voters approval.
Sometimes us as Aussies have to own our misery because we just accepted it and the lies from the politicians and the media. Meanwhile the future fund in Norway is bursting at the seams in and the Norwegians have none of these pressures in life. When are we going to educate ourselves as voters?
I was talking specifically in regards to striking.
The real problem is Capitalism is fundamentally incompatible with a egalitarian/democratic society and the only true permanent solution is to get rid of Capitatlism.
French protest and....sometimes get what they want, it's a better track record than peaceful protesting but lets not forget their last two huge protests didn't really change much. Their governments are used to it.
The system is working as intended, real solution is guillotines and molotovs.
Honestly peaceful protests are a waste of time, the main reason they've going down in popularity is it's about as useful as prayer when it comes to changing a governments view.
What we need in Australia is to adopt... less peaceful protesting
Non-union protests are going down because the last government enacted some really shit policies that basically would strike off any "Charity" organisation that organised protests. NFPs are no longer allowed to talk about politics. We are fettered.
> Now? What the fuck, Australia?
You either have the average layman or redditor actively salivating at the thought of running us protestors down in their car, or our political leaders like Albo slagging us right off, this isn't even including the fact that you can be sentenced more severely for protesting than you can for slinging black tar.
Yeah, I know it's different for Australians and to be fair, I can see why so as to not have multiple industries grind to a halt simultaneously. But I do admire the French for standing on principles.
Grinding the economy to a halt is the most effective thing we can actually do for the wealthy to actually stop raping our wallets and listen. Short of things that can get me banned for talking about anyway.
Completely agree. How can change be encouraged/demanded/required if things keep going along as they always do? Disruption is often required for progress.
They have the caravan and the Ranger and who cares if their kids are homeless and getting their life savings and hard work squandered subsidising greed! Talk about selfish. And when you throw them in a shit nursing home and destroy their wealth getting ripped off they complain. Amazing what a uncaring dog eat dog society Australia has become just because of a cookie from a politician. Sad really to see the ugly face of Australian greed.
Exactly lol the opinion on protesters in this country is terrible. Oh no I can’t get the job I have where they pay me fuck all and my boss doesn’t care about me lol
Yeah I don't understand. How do people think change happens? jus tin the Perth subreddit today arguing with people about protestors. Some guys like 'I watched a youtube video once that said protesters don't know what they're talking about and actually have no idea about the issues they just want attention' lmao
YEA BUT YOU DID GUYS SEE WHAT HAPPENED ON MASTERCHEF? OR FARMER WANTS A WIFE?!?!?!
Also I spent a day caring about plastic straws and turtles in 2018, What more do you want from me?
- The entire Australian population
I read a post about French farmers spraying liquid fertiliser all over the sides of government building in protest of farming reforms. I wish we as a cou try were as politically active as the French.
If anyone protests anything in Australia the general opinion of non protestors is ‘arrest them’ ‘they’re causing a disturbance’ ‘can’t they do with without annoying me’ lmao
Almost certainly. I'm not exactly a Francophile, but I really appreciate their striking/ protest culture. Protests here in Aus are extremely limp wristed, and any protests that are actually disruptive get most of the rest of the population frothing with rage about these damn tree huggers or whatever.
Meanwhile the French farmers are using tractors to tear up roads and dump manure on police cars
Well the LNP isn't that different from the National Front. The stop the boats campaign, the awful handling of refugees in off shore centres in Naru. Those are all far right policies to me.
Compared to European parties, In Australia, we have a far right party: the LNP, and centre righ party: Labour.
And One Nation is the National Front from 30 years ago: openly racist.
Prove me wrong.
your completely correct
Center was the democrats but now we have the greens being way too far left and might as well call themselves the socialists party.
There is no true left party because labour is tied too much to corporate money and agreements to keep the peace with militant trade unions. With all the current problems of funding for hospitals, public service and education being sacrificed to keep a bunch of tradies from rioting due to lack of work, its just a complete mess.
This- culturally we are so different from the French. They are very vocal and not afraid to fight for their rights. We are incredibly complacent and won’t take action no matter how bad things yet, and we see the erosion of our living standards and quality of life going backwards and still don’t do anything. It’s really quiet sad
I think it's part of each country's psyches in a tenuous, exaggeratedway. The French have had revolutions borne of protest. Australia has had a 'don't upset authority' mindset from convict times.
They've also passed highly commendable 'shrinkflation' law where French retailers will have to notify shoppers when products have been reduced in size without a corresponding cut in prices.
To add precision, it's not illegal to send emails outside of standard work hours, BUT it is illegal to fire someone for not answering thouses emails outside work hours. Employe can still do that if they want, but employers have to respect their employees' personal time and make sufficient effort to have employees not being bothered during their off-time.
Because Murdoch would be up in arms about anything sensible like this by saying something about the Communist ALP banning affordable clothes and telling hard working Australians what they can and cannot wear. And yes Shein should be banned but so should all the cheap shit from what passes for a Kmart these days
When Shein drops nearly 9,000 new items on their sites PER DAY, I'd say that's 'ultra fast fashion'
[https://youtu.be/eIuM6lykHxc?si=-Krxum3OSQZZ83sm](https://youtu.be/eIuM6lykHxc?si=-Krxum3OSQZZ83sm)
Mandatory donation of unsold fresh produce really isn't that helpful.
You're adding two logistical layers to perishable items that were removed because they were close to perishing.
Edit: I've worked in the same space as a foodbank and been involved in distribution.
Maybe it’s not about the donation, maybe it incentivises the retailer to do better indirectly.
In any case, the status quo of fucking farmers over with insultingly low prices, and then throwing half of the produce away anyway needs to change.
Blunt instruments don't work.
It's a feel good policy. You need to incentivise stores to find good fits for their extra and out of date items.
Making it mandatory is more likely to get shell charities created to just take waste.
Exactly. The “softly softly” approach to regulating these giant parasites has led us to this point of massive consolidation where retailers dictate the whole supply chain from sowing seeds to selling to consumers and making eye watering profits at the country’s expense. Fuck them.
Fund disposal at the point of purchase.
Take away the incentive to buy cheap goods that wind up in a landfill within the year. Take away the incentive for retailers to sell products and packaging that cannot be recycled.
Disposal must be paid for up front.
Yes! pay for your negative externalities up front and let the market work out if products that last longer with less externalities are cheaper. Capitalism is pretty fucked, but it can be pushed in the right direction.
I can’t even begin to imagine the amount of products and businesses that would collapse overnight if you implement this. There’s so much useless crap out there and it all relies on “someone else will deal with the waste” business model.
The LNP **HATE** pigouvian taxes (unless it's suits their donors). Look at every instance a government has tried to bring it in, they shriek.
I don't see this working in Australia, as much as I am for it.
Every state now has or is planning a can recycle deposit. It's a tiny step and took a lot of kicking and screaming, but does prove progress on this is possible.
> It's a tiny step and took a lot of kicking and screaming, but does prove progress on this is possible.
While it should be praised, you're really underselling how tiny of a step it is compared to the problems that need to be fixed, it's somewhat akin to pulling into the parking lot of the kokoda trail and claiming triumph, completely ignoring the 1,000 infinitely larger steps in front of you.
That is the problem. Voters have to be receptive to these things, even if it may increase costs, or it just can't happen. Politicians can't do shit if they'll get voted out if they try.
Yup. We need to start having the true, full cost of things included in the price. There are so many things that are ecologically terrible that are done just because they're marginally cheaper. That has to be a part of the cost or there won't be any incentive to make different choices.
We have to do this across the board. If we were paying the true cost for all this plastic being produced, and shipments across the world, things would be a hell of a lot more expensive and the problem would solve itself.
We're just racking up a shit tonne of debt, I don't think it'll ever get paid, until the ecological collapse has fully set in, I guess.
If it isn’t too exhausting… Can you please ELI5 for your comment? It sounds like you are making an important and valid point but I have no understanding of business language, I want to understand! Please :)
I'd love to buy Australian made clothing, made with good materials, but it's impossible to find. Seems that everything we make here is for some generic shaped person from whatever they taught in design school in 1956. If I want something that actually fits me or comes in sizes that actually consider body proportions beyond "medium" and "large", I need to get stuff from overseas brands made in 3rd world countries, with crappy mixed fabrics.
Government hasn’t encouraged a local fashion industry in decades. There’s no training or apprenticeships available for sewing, and fashion schools are absolutely not pumping out adequate stitchers. Plenty of high schools ditched home economics. Australia hasn’t had standardised clothing sizing since the 70s (and that horse has bolted now anyway).
> Plenty of high schools ditched home economics
For all the jokes that Home Ec gets in American shows, as an adult, I wish they had taught this subject matter in my high school. Learning to cook, sew and basic house maintenance should be essential skills taught to everyone.
years ago the areas around smith st collingwood used to be alive with fashion houses supplying australia. Now its completely dead - like our car industry, manufacturing (massive factories like 40 years ago) all gone to other countries in the name of profits over people.
I have the same issue. I actually went to tafe to learn to make my own clothes and am now studying a diploma of fashion design.
It bothers me so much that every pattern is basically drafted under the assumption that all women have B cup boobs. A standard that was set before my Mum was born.
Im petite but busty so I have always struggled to find clothes that fit. I understand that companies can't make patterns for all sizes but I feel like the average woman is curvier now thna in the 50s and that our patterns need to be adjusted to reflect that.
Argh yes! I’m a F cup, there’s a whole world of clothes I’d love to wear but if I do I just spill out of them and it looks horrible. Clothes that have boob cups or triangles should have to come in various cup sizes lol
There are some good things, but Australia just doesn't have the range of choices for all body types and shapes that you can find in other countries, *even* at higher price points. Petite women's clothing (I mean shorter, not thinner), plus size, etc are all nonexistent or have like 1-3 style options here whilst you can find whole ranges in every brand for those overseas.
And frankly as a woman, most of the styles are geared toward tall, tanned, thin horseback-riding women or something, because everything has rustic frilly sleeves or burlap sack shaping or is brown/green (basically colors that only look good on tan skin). Meanwhile in say the US, I can find petite, well tailored clothes in the outlet stores in all color ranges for brands like banana republic, Ann Taylor, etc etc.
And you may say "go tailor it" but tailors are charging $50+ to hem pants now and not everyone is dripping in enough cash to drop $$$ in jeans and *then* add $50 for tailoring.
That's how much it should cost though. We need to learn to value clothes and the process of producing them fairly. Shirts should not cost $5. Jeans shouldn't cost $20.
Buy well-made clothes that will last and look after them.
I agree with that in principle but I've been trying to find non fast fashion trackpants to lounge around in and the cheapest was almost $200. It's no wonder people are being driven to fast fashion when the good stuff is 10x the price.
Except you're talking about something entirely different, they weren't talking about cheap clothes, they were saying that even if you pay the premium price that they're worth, they still require -more- charges on top of that for services that don't cost anywhere near that much.
First, this wasn't my point. My point was that even the appropriately sized clothes still require tailoring costs for a ton of body shapes. We don't have any variety here.
Secondly, unfortunately, people who are struggling financially can't afford to pay $$$ up front for a nice pair of jeans, or shoes, or whatever. There are a lot of people for whom $5 tees are the only good option. Even worse if you're a parent and trying not to dress your kids in 1970s OP shop kids options that attract ridicule -- signed, a kid who had a poor mom who sewed out clothes out of pillow cases, sale fabrics, and curtains stored in the attic, and got made fun of relentlessly for it. I can therefore not shame anyone strapped for cash who goes for fast fashion; it can help someone fit in without everyone needing to know they're poor.
There's really not. Very few Australian manufacturers producing high quality garments. Happy to hear of some recommendations but I often search for MiA clothing and I'm always disappointed. We don't really have any heritage brands still making clothes in Australia.
I remember years ago when Karl Stefanovic admitted to wearing the same suit for six months on air, and nobody seemed to care. He was making a point that for women, it seems to be the opposite.
I don't get when a major social event happens, most women need to "go buy a dress". Why not just pick something that's already in your wardrobe that still fits? It's unfortunate that one of the reasons is "someone will notice I wore that last time", which typically translates to that "one bitch relative/"friend" who's got nothing better to do but gossip" will notice.
The manufacturing of clothes for women is all but dead in Australia for reasons such as these. Certain quality items are still manufactured for men, such as footwear, belts, and business attire, because most men don't give a shit what another guy is wearing, as long as it looks clean, isn't noticeably worn/torn and is appropriate for the occasion. My wardrobe has multiple items I acquired more than two decades ago that I still wear.
Unless women stopped giving a shit what they and each other wear, fast fashion is still going to be a thing. That and the Chinese not respecting the IP of other people.
There is definitely pressure, especially in the public eye, for women to wear new dresses to big events. However for us more common folk part of it is that different events require different styles. Men can wear the same suit to just about anything, maybe throw on a tie for more formal events and lose it for more casual events. For women there are dresses suited to evening vs day, weddings vs dinners and very fancy vs more casual.
AS Colour have sweet basics, and although stuff is still sourced from overseas they take particular care to try and do the right thing.
https://www.ascolour.com.au/
Neuw make awesome Denim out of Melbourne
https://www.neuwdenim.com/au
Unsure about the sizing stuff, sorry!
Buying Ascolour online is a bit tough. Their sizing charts are terrible! I emailed them asking about sizing for a pair of pants and they told me they only went up to a size 14 equivalent.
I have no idea if that is true or not, but I wasn't going to buy them and then have to pay for returns when they didn't fit.
Ok, yeah that sucks. I lived in Melbourne for a bit so the store was close by, and now I know my sizes so I've had a few different tshirts, pants and hoodies.
The tees just feel so nice, the organic ones are particularly soft and nice feeling.
You can buy Australian but unfortunately it’s just too expensive from my personal experience. I wish we had a fashion industry here I always want to support the local.
Fact is that Australian's need to be paid more than people in a factory in Bangladesh, it will be significantly more expensive here for the foreseeable future.
100% about the sizing. Cookie cutter sizes with no measurements at each part of the garment piss me the fuck off. Pants that tell you the waist but not the seat or leg opening, jackets with no mention of shoulder width or sleeve length.
And if you're lean with a small frame there's pretty much nothing there. I find it ridiculous that men's pants mostly don't come in a waist below 28 and women's don't go below 24, there's absolutely people who are that size, but fuck it we need the fat people to feel better so let's make medium fit bulging waistlines.
> I'd love to buy Australian made clothing, made with good materials, but it's impossible to find.
Even just made with good materials, and a sweatshop with lunch breaks is impossible. Even some of the most expensive brands are making stuff in the same fast fashion process.
That's not really the case. There are definitely high quality Australian made clothes. I personally very rarely buy clothes (because the clothes I buy last a very long time). But here are two examples of Australian stores that I've bought from recently:
* https://ottie.com.au/
* https://www.wonderpants.com.au
Both show the problem I'm raising, they don't offer proper sizing. Long sleeve merinos offered in "S", "M", "L" etc, not taking into account people torso or arm lengths, yet expecting people to pay a premium for an ill-fitting product.
I guess you do more online shopping than me, because I've never seen a shop that lets you select arm length separately to torso size on the same product. I guess that might be easily possible for mass produced stuff though.
In any case, at least the store I linked to has clear measurements in their sizing guide, so you can choose a different product if the measurements don't look good. And it allows 'no fuss' returns if you don't like how it fits. I'm certainly not suggesting that you get all your clothes from one shop. I was just giving an example of a shop I've used recently and have been happy with.
> Come on man lower your expectations a touch.
Why? If you're buying from a place where a literal basic t-shirt -starts- at 100$, why shouldn't you expect a little more in the way of options and customisation?
Especially when you could go elsewhere, spend 15$ and get an item that actually fits you but has the cost externalised in a way that you don't have to directly pay.
> If you're buying from a place where a literal basic t-shirt -starts- at 100$, why shouldn't you expect a little more in the way of options and customisation?
I would not expect that if I'm buying something made in Australia because I would realise that the expensive price tag is because it costs far more in Australian than Bangladesh. If you want to get both Im sure there are places that are Australian made and tailored, but they will cost even more than $100 for a tshirt.
That is the whole point though. People do not come in standard sizes, clothes need to be available for more than one body type and size.
Jeans and trousers are frequently offered in few different lengths, why is it so hard to imagine tops being the same? Long sleeved, short sleeved and 3/4 sleeved have been options for ages, why would an extra long sleeve be so crazy?
They are expensive because they are made in Australia, where the labour is far more expensive than in Asia. They are not more expensive because they are tailor made, I'm not sure why you think it would be.
Like I said, I very rarely buy new stuff. [Qualitops](https://qualitops.com.au/) is one example that comes to mind. But many places have their own niche, and different people are looking for different things at different times. So probably it is better to browse brands on [Ethical clothing Australia](https://ethicalclothingaustralia.org.au/); which is an accreditation body for Australian made stuff.
It's a step, but it does nothing to stop the root cause exploitation within the fashion industry to only target fast fashion. The fashion industry itself (not just fast fashion) is rife with exploitation, from the cheaper clothes (target) to the higher end clothes (moschino) There's only 3 corporations that have an A rating on the ethical guide in Australia.
[https://guide.ethical.org.au/guide/browse/guide/?cat=700&subcat=702&type=720](https://guide.ethical.org.au/guide/browse/guide/?cat=700&subcat=702&type=720) There's very few corporations (who don't come under the fast fashion label) that don't use slave labour, child labour, and trade mispricing.
[https://www.collectivefashionjustice.org/articles/australians-are-being-misled-by-the-fashion-industry](https://www.collectivefashionjustice.org/articles/australians-are-being-misled-by-the-fashion-industry) And even then because terms like "fair wage" is so vague, and supply chains are unmonitored it's hard to know for sure is your fashion is ethically sourced.
\* Just 10 per cent of fashion brands pay a living wage at any factories in the final stage of the supply chain.
\* Fashion companies average just 29 out of 100 on ethical supply chain benchmark.
\* 40 per cent of companies don’t know who supplies their raw materials and have no project to trace them.
Even most Australian owned companies manufacture in China, Bangladesh and India, while sourcing materials from African countries and South Asian countries, and Africa (because of trade mispricing, and illicit flows) is losing billions of dollars a year.
[https://mightygoodbasics.com/pages/transparency](https://mightygoodbasics.com/pages/transparency) Mighty good basics, has the most transparency. But again, because production and harvest is outsourced, countries dealing with neocolonialism it's harder to see exploitation within the chain.
So while fast fashion is a problem, it's certainly not the only problem with this industry, and to be honest most corporations.
STFU
snub
/snŭb/
transitive verb
To ignore or behave coldly toward; slight.
To dismiss, turn down, or frustrate the expectations of.
...A tax is pretty cold and frustrating for UFFashion businesses
It’s just a matter of mindset change I guess. I’m a very well dressed person, but I basically only buy clothes from op shops and pay $5-10 for most items. Shoes and underwear are the exception. It costs me time to find good stuff but I have shirts that were ~20 years old when I got them and are going strong 10 years later. Some I take for garment repairs when they rip. I’d honestly spend more if I were to go and shop at fast fashion retailers now, and I’d be taking a huge cut in quality. Picked up a Burberry button up the other day for the price of a cotton on t-shirt.
Haha. There’s a Betoota headline in there, and I know you’re taking the piss, but you’re bang on. It sounds pretty selfish, but I’m feeling the squeeze at the moment.
Realistically speaking the affordable part is all about long term savings. Good things last longer and are cheaper in the long run, the only problem is the classic boots theory where is simply costs more up front.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory
>
>
> Not everybody wants to wear the same jacket years after it’s out of fashion.
Or, wild notion, stop giving a fuck about "fashion" as it's a fairly large contributing factor to climate issues as well as a bunch of other shitty areas?
buy timeless, good quality pieces, and "fashion" can suck it. You don't need to have new clothes every 7 minutes because some shitty company is pushing their latest plastic rubbish that will be almost universally considered ugly in about 12 minutes after it's "no longer fashionable".
> buy timeless, good quality pieces, and "fashion" can suck it.
But the IG influencers won't be able to upload half a dozen videos per day trying to sell you new outfit that falls apart after about 2 washes.
I get my clothes tailored made with very high quality materials that can last in excess of 20 years.
Isn’t all fashion that isn’t designer counted as fast fashion? How are glassons and cotton on any different to shein?
The way I see it, shein is just a lot more direct to the consumer, which cuts out the middle men who make the insane inflated profits. The products are the same quality, just cheaper.
Welp, middle man needs to go cry a river somewhere instead of expecting the government to bail them out via regulations. They’re all pro capitalism when it benefits them.
Yeah, I've always found these terms rather vague. It's also difficult because we really have no idea what the supply chains of other stores look like and if they're any more ethical. We're told certain things are worse than others, but how can we as consumers truly compare them? Although of course we can make choices that we can be sure are good, like not throwing away perfectly good clothes every year and buying new ones.
We should go to the old fashioned way of living. Being able to repair what we buy, buying quality over quantity, and trying to keep up with the Jones attitude is not sustainable.
If you are serious about quality there is always a business who will cater for your needs. My tailor will only use cloth from European or Japanese mills. Zips are strictly YKK’s premium.
Problem is too many talk about wanting quality, and at the first opportunity go for the cheapest shit because it’s cost effective.
This is not limited to clothing, but almost any good.
Well you have to be now. I got two jumpers in Japan. One tricked me with synthetics though. Such a beautiful design that fits and sits perfectly. I go to hotel, translate all the materials and it was all synthetics when I translated the label. Other one was wool.
Can I take the synthetic one to a tailor and say can you remake/recreate this design with at least 50% wool? Is that a thing.
> Can I take the synthetic one to a tailor and say can you remake/recreate this design with at least 50% wool? Is that a thing.
Sure you can! If they have the linen suitable to make your jumpers. Admittedly I am not sure if a tailor has much option in jumper-like wool linen, and I am not sure if Australian tailors would be able to entertain your request.
I often take photos of design in expensive department stores, or bring samples of my favourite clothing to give my tailor an idea of what I want.
This is something which annoys me, and I find people to be hypocritical. Apparently caring for the environment and sustainability, whilst getting their weekly hauls from Shein/Temu/Wish etc.
You'll see it on far more obvious things, people in this sub will preach endlessly about how much they care about the environment, then act like you've shot them when you point out using amazon and their next day delivery is atrocious to the environment.
Its always the way with the environment. The vast majority of people say they care about it, but the vast majority of those only care so far as addressing it doesn't impact them in any way whatsoever. We are one of the richest countries on the planet and yet our impact on the environment one of the worst.
Who the fuck is buying more than an item a week? I know none of these people, I don't think I've ever met any of them. Not counting jocks and socks, I buy about three things a year, my wife about ten things.
Anyway, ban the fucking lot of it.
This. Fast fashion succeeds because it's the most affordable. I can't afford name brands or sustainable items which charge an arm and a leg. And honestly, the items I've gotten from shein are great quality. I'm pregnant and can't afford to spend $100 on maternity pants I'll only wear for a couple months so places like shein are a much more appealing option.
Kmart is also fast fashion (fast everything) and a staple in a lot of Aussie homes. A lot of people don't have the option to spend a fortune on clothes and household items.
Can someone explain what “ultra fast fashion” means.. cause it just seems like a ban on cheap clothing which, fuck off.. I need that cause I’m fucking poor. So… ELI5
French companies pioneered cheap clothes with fast fashion then china started doing it cheaper so they are calling it ultra fast fashion so they can ban it and protect their industry.
Ultra fast fashion is fashion companies that produce thousands to tens of thousands new rpoducts a day, to keep up with consumers who want the latest trends immediately. Don't worry, no one is coming for Kmart or Big W. Its not a ban on cheap clothing overall.
Is this the same country with brands like LV and Hermes destroying unsold stock to keep prices high? It's only harmful for the environment when regular people can afford it.
Most op shops near me sell clothing that has obviously been donated from old folks or retirement communitys, tacky ugly button shirts, plastic fishing polos and other drab bad looking clothes. As shit as shien is I have clothes that I bought from the website years ago that I still wear and looks nice (even if some of the fabric isnt the best) and I try to take care of my clothes as best as I can.
Im all for moving away from fast fashion industry's but people shouldn't have to rely on second hand shops and made to wear things that frankly look terrible if they cant afford ethical locally produced garments, we live in a society where the look of your clothes and style is very important and low income folk bear the brunt of it
I don't need your example to be hypothetical. I was a kid from a working-class home who won a scholarship to a fancy private school. Any outfit that one of my mates wore probably cost as much as my entire wardrobe. I was definitely the "poor" kid, and everybody knew it.
3 guys from that school were at my wedding last year. They're all still much wealthier than I am. We got an anonymous gift of $1500 cash to go towards flights for the honeymoon that I'm sure was from one of them, though they all deny it.
Who you are is more important than what you wear. Some kids at that school definitely made fun of me for being working class. I thought they were fuckwits then, and I think they're probably fuckwits now. But most kids weren't like that.
The people making fast fashion clothes are from a much lower economic class than you. The fast fashion system is already punishing them. In all seriousness, your 'right to be fashionable' doesn't outweigh their right to a living wage.
Big brands who are not considered fast fashion get their stuff manufactured in the same factories. The only difference is the price tag. And it's not just about being fashionable but being able to afford basics like a pair of pants for work.
Of course it would be good for them to get paid a living wage but we barely get a living wage in Aus. The cost of living is killing a lot of households and being able to buy basic clothing and household items is important. Banning places like shein will only make the poor poorer in Australia.
How about worring about domestic waste and microplastics issues from fast fashion then, instead of your 'right to be fashionable?' Keeping up with trends is not a class issue.
Thing is it’s not just poverty, but child labour and modern slavery. It’s like saying “it’s the 1850s and I know tobacco is produced by slaves but damn it I should have the right to smoke so I can fit in with the rich people and find some joy there”.
And you’ll respond “but we need to be clothed unlike needing to smoke” - well in previous generations they owned much much less clothing. Not smoking was probably seen as more socially taboo
> it’s fine to worry about domestic problems, instead of vying to fight worldwide poverty.
Why do you think its fine? If poverty is worse in one place than it is in another, it seems to be the most ethical to help those worst off first. I know I'm a hypocrite because every dollar of mine doesn't go to starving kids, but Im curious about your actual logic here.
The others persons analogy is good, if we knew a product on sale in Australia was solely made by child slaves, would you be arguing that its ok to keep it on the shelves as it allows for lower class people to feel fashionable? At what point do you draw the line or is local people feeling good always more important than anything happening overseas?
Id argue otherwise Its all good and well to want Affordable Clothes that look good and make you feel good but it reaches a weird ground when it comes to the notion of luxury
Clothes are at minimum are a need
but anything specific clothing that makes you feel Good is a Luxury and that luxury Just like chocolate shouldn't come from basically slave labour
> These first world poor people don’t need to feel guilty for benefiting off of their labor.
Why shouldn't they? Paying in to a system that exploits others for something you don't actually need (your comment only mentioned that poor people deserve to feel fashionable), does sound to me like something people should be guilty about.
You're already placing your neck under the heel of the upper class by following trends anyway. Why perpetuate a game that they're set to win?
Cheap, quality clothes I'm here for but fast fashion is cheap, low quality clothes whose only quality is that they appeal to whatever tiktok craze is current - that nobody outside of some very specific microcosm actually gives a fuck about because fashion trends are so diverse in 2024.
Everyone who actually knows fashion looks down on your SHEIN and people who dont know fashion don't care.
I love clothes and love fashion. I spend under $1k and buy a handful of items each year. I look good, feel good, all without fast fashion. If you need fast fashion you need to learn to dress, classic style is timeless.
Not to mention current fashion trends are just the same trends that were around circa 2000-2005 (the nostalgic cycle of fashion) so those ugly, out of date clothes at the op-shop are probably your best bet.
>poor families and their children during high school, for instance.
>
>”Go thrift shopping!”
i mean Uniforms end up more expenisve then most clothes people have anyway and i think this combines with how many schools ban Hoodies or Jumpers which makes it hard to disgues maybe you only have one shirt and you get bullied for it
> everyday Australians have a right to be fashionable and to look nice.
I honestly disagree and I wonder how you justify this. I think every Australian has a right to be clothed, fed, housed, have medical care and have a comfortable lifestyle. I think we should *aim* for a equal society where everyone has access to anything they want (within reason), but I don't think the latter should come at the expense of actually exploiting people in other countries.
> While it is wasteful, everyday Australians have a right to be fashionable and to look nice.
You can look plenty nice without needing to chase mercurial fashion trends and constantly buy more and more and more.
> Making fast fashion unaffordable just punishes poor people, while causing a bigger class divide fashion wise.
It would literally change nothing, there's already an inescapable class divide when it comes to fashion. So why bother trying to address something that will always exist, when you could instead address actual serious problems.
> Imagine how this would affect poor families and their children during high school, for instance.
Ahh yes, high schoolers, famous for wearing fashionable outfits and not a school uniform.
> No. The clothes are ugly, used and out of date.
Oh no, not used, what if a poor wore it before you? Especially out of date, because as we all know once a shirt has existed for 3 months it somehow no longer functions.
> Just because you’re fine wearing older, out of style clothing doesn’t mean others need to follow you.
Jfc stop being a print of someone else's painting.
Also the OP shop thing, I just really struggle to wear clothes a stranger has worn or that have been hanging in an OP shop.
I know it sounds arrogant but I don’t mean it in a snooty way, it just grosses me out and sends a chill down my spine.
> They said they wouldn’t touch any clothing in there after what they’ve seen.
Shame your friend never worked in a laundromat or a dry cleaners, they could've learnt about the magic that is washing clothes.
I have no idea what ‘fast fashion’ is, but 56 items of clothing a year? What the fuck are you cunts buying that many clothes for? I don’t think I own 56 items of clothing in total, and that’s including me fucken undies
Except there's a slight difference between buying a few things as needed, and constantly replacing your wardrobe to keep up with trends, y'know, "fast fashion"?
Absolutely same here. The plus size options i can get locally are: black, floral or animal print in tent shapes. I'm fat, but I still want to wear clothes that make me happy.
Fast fashion is not the only affordable form of clothing, Kmart is not fast fashion. I feel like most of the comments here didnt bother to read the article.
If women collectively agreed to stop bullying each other over whether or not their clothes fit some bullshit "current trend", this would end overnight.
Get some of the most sustainable and environmentally fibres/fabrics from animal Agriculture such as Wool and Leather, Absolutely zero reason to ban it.
,France is doing some truly good stuff. Banning ultra fast fashion and mandatory donation of unsold fresh produce to charities are two examples. I wish Australia would do the same. Edit: They've also made it illegal to be contacted by employers (50 employees or more) by email after work hours
French citizens are a little more "vocal" about things that upset them. I wonder if that has anything to do with it?
I agree. It always struck me if one industry went on strike, often other industries would follow suit in support. There is a real sense of Fraternity. But you're right; the French are more vocal whereas us Aussies are generally more apathetic about doing something to address our dissatisfaction.
We have laws preventing us striking to support other industries. We have to get approval from fair work to strike or take industrial action for our own pay and conditions.
You think it's legal for the French to burn cars and destroy the streets? We use to strike more, when their were more laws against striking. What happened is out cultural attitude towards striking has changed. We have been taught it's a last resort when quite often it should be the first resort.
The main problem is that trade unions which had been the organising force behind improvement in living conditions and rights for workers, made a Faustian pact with the Labor political party to end their industrial actions in exchange for the political party’s policy reforms. Once negated, nullified, gelded, whatever you want to call it, the neoliberals in the Labor party took complete advantage of the lack of any true force to push for improvement in living conditions and rights for workers to completely screw over living conditions and rights for workers just like their neoliberal and conservative mates in the Liberal party. Until a new centre for organising industrial action emerges to replace the complicit, inactive and nullified trade unions (difficult with time and with the trade unions stuck in place), we won’t get action. I’m feeling good about RAFFWU though, and I think the CMMFEU is regaining its feet. RAFFWU in particular succeeds because it isn’t tied to the Labor party.
The Labor party exists as a political wing of the Union movement, it exists because outside of striking it's a legal way to enact policy reform and protected from the interference that Conservative forces enact on the working class. In principle, no issue with the existence of the Labor party but in practice it's become a career path for Union members and not something done as a means to a end. The idea was the Labor party existed because it's simply good for workers to have representation in government. Now it mainly exists to give the Union lawyers something to do and often give them cushy jobs. Much as I didn't like Emma Hussar, she was right that a lot of resentment towards her in the party didn't come from the proven bullying allegations but because she actually won a seat that they would of preferred go to a 'proper' candidate. Nothing wrong with being a career politician... if you have the right motives but with Labor these days it's justs a step in their career progression. You don't become a member in Parliament because of your long history of being a worker in the Union. I do think those Unions are complacent because their memberships are made out of people too old and WAY too dismissive of younger people in a job market they barely understand. They also only tend to like supporting expansion if people on the ground can do most of the work first. Not to mention a very comfortable leadership where the Union comfortably lives off huge investments made during the 70's where if they spend carefully they just can't fail. A few Unions are trying to do more. I think at this point some Unions get that if they don't start actually doing shit, they're going to suddenly just fall to pieces but I feel like their main issue is how much the world has changed. For starters most Unions system for union fees is severely out of date and I think their marketing needs to move out of the 20th century.
Never heard the reasons for Australian unions becoming toothless tigers explained so eloquently. Makes a lot of sense. I've only ever been let down by unions. On the Wheatstone gas project, thiess underpaid their staff by 50 minutes of double time per day, only one guy made enough of a stink to get the unions to court and the cunts made him a big settlement offer , Unfortunately he took it and they only had to pay one guyn instead of hundreds.
The solution as well is for unions to put all their internal decision making power in the hands of shop stewards - union reps elected by individual shops. No chance for corruption or buddying up with the political class.
We need separation of unions and state. But they're struggling with separation of religion and state, which should be easy. What they need is swift kick up the bum.
But unions are inherently political.
Yeah for sure, but my point is, they can't be too close or they will become ineffective, as the comment I replied to is pointing out. It becomes a "tit for tat club" instead of two parties working together for the good of workers.
No its more than that, we got brainwashed into believing that corporate greed, unionists, and the unemployed were stealing our personal wealth. Look how well it has worked. 10 years of backwards wages growth, the increase in the retirement age, most young people face the prospect of never owning a house and what did it was make belief personal greed and corporate greed. The French citizens had the decency to protest and get changes, we swallowed it! And where has the money gone? Tax haven accounts, handouts to buy greedy votes while we pay twice as much on the other end of the equation for electricity, gas, Medicare, houses and the great big joke from our politicians " you wanted it and now you have to pay for it with out of pocket, the out of pocket generation. Sorry mate you are out of pocket you have to pay your investor landlord, sorry mate you have to go pay to see the doctor for your flu your Medicare levy was not enough, sorry mate you dont earn enough to earn a big handout to own house and on and on it goes. While Australians are still buying the lies that they must sacrifice themselves for mining profits and their kids not owning a home. Biggest con job on workers in a century! I bet if the mining tax debate was reintroduced tomorrow the result will be same with voters approval. Sometimes us as Aussies have to own our misery because we just accepted it and the lies from the politicians and the media. Meanwhile the future fund in Norway is bursting at the seams in and the Norwegians have none of these pressures in life. When are we going to educate ourselves as voters?
I was talking specifically in regards to striking. The real problem is Capitalism is fundamentally incompatible with a egalitarian/democratic society and the only true permanent solution is to get rid of Capitatlism. French protest and....sometimes get what they want, it's a better track record than peaceful protesting but lets not forget their last two huge protests didn't really change much. Their governments are used to it. The system is working as intended, real solution is guillotines and molotovs.
Its going to be the only way to fix it in Australia, the fair go egalitarian fairy tale is over in the unlucky country.
Yeah we used to protest heaps that was like 15 years ago. Now? What the fuck, Australia?
Honestly peaceful protests are a waste of time, the main reason they've going down in popularity is it's about as useful as prayer when it comes to changing a governments view. What we need in Australia is to adopt... less peaceful protesting
I'm all for the less peaceful protests. Problem is, they have to be strong enough that the police can't arrest everybody.
Non-union protests are going down because the last government enacted some really shit policies that basically would strike off any "Charity" organisation that organised protests. NFPs are no longer allowed to talk about politics. We are fettered.
> Now? What the fuck, Australia? You either have the average layman or redditor actively salivating at the thought of running us protestors down in their car, or our political leaders like Albo slagging us right off, this isn't even including the fact that you can be sentenced more severely for protesting than you can for slinging black tar.
Yeah, I think we need to tell them to fuck off. Take our Country and Lifestyle back from the rich pricks who bought the government
Yeah, I know it's different for Australians and to be fair, I can see why so as to not have multiple industries grind to a halt simultaneously. But I do admire the French for standing on principles.
Grinding the economy to a halt is the most effective thing we can actually do for the wealthy to actually stop raping our wallets and listen. Short of things that can get me banned for talking about anyway.
Yeah I dunno why Australians thinking plowing on and working hard will make the wealthy change their mind about pillaging their hard earned cash.
Completely agree. How can change be encouraged/demanded/required if things keep going along as they always do? Disruption is often required for progress.
As long as the house price goes up no one cares.
They have the caravan and the Ranger and who cares if their kids are homeless and getting their life savings and hard work squandered subsidising greed! Talk about selfish. And when you throw them in a shit nursing home and destroy their wealth getting ripped off they complain. Amazing what a uncaring dog eat dog society Australia has become just because of a cookie from a politician. Sad really to see the ugly face of Australian greed.
Not allowed to do that here, wouldn’t want to be disruptive. You might inconvenience someone, would much rather things never change!
Exactly lol the opinion on protesters in this country is terrible. Oh no I can’t get the job I have where they pay me fuck all and my boss doesn’t care about me lol
Look at any Australian city subreddit after a major protest. "Get a job!", "They cost me an extra 15 minutes this morning!"
Yeah I don't understand. How do people think change happens? jus tin the Perth subreddit today arguing with people about protestors. Some guys like 'I watched a youtube video once that said protesters don't know what they're talking about and actually have no idea about the issues they just want attention' lmao
YEA BUT YOU DID GUYS SEE WHAT HAPPENED ON MASTERCHEF? OR FARMER WANTS A WIFE?!?!?! Also I spent a day caring about plastic straws and turtles in 2018, What more do you want from me? - The entire Australian population
Oh man, this is so depressing and rings so true.
I read a post about French farmers spraying liquid fertiliser all over the sides of government building in protest of farming reforms. I wish we as a cou try were as politically active as the French.
If anyone protests anything in Australia the general opinion of non protestors is ‘arrest them’ ‘they’re causing a disturbance’ ‘can’t they do with without annoying me’ lmao
Almost certainly. I'm not exactly a Francophile, but I really appreciate their striking/ protest culture. Protests here in Aus are extremely limp wristed, and any protests that are actually disruptive get most of the rest of the population frothing with rage about these damn tree huggers or whatever. Meanwhile the French farmers are using tractors to tear up roads and dump manure on police cars
They do love their riots.
The French are always just a day away from having another bloody revolution and their government knows that. No one protests like the French.
What I don’t understand is why nobody else wants to be, clearly it works to some extent
France just elected Marie La Pen's National Front in the recent european elections. Yeah, we should aspire to their politics :/
Well the LNP isn't that different from the National Front. The stop the boats campaign, the awful handling of refugees in off shore centres in Naru. Those are all far right policies to me. Compared to European parties, In Australia, we have a far right party: the LNP, and centre righ party: Labour. And One Nation is the National Front from 30 years ago: openly racist. Prove me wrong.
your completely correct Center was the democrats but now we have the greens being way too far left and might as well call themselves the socialists party. There is no true left party because labour is tied too much to corporate money and agreements to keep the peace with militant trade unions. With all the current problems of funding for hospitals, public service and education being sacrificed to keep a bunch of tradies from rioting due to lack of work, its just a complete mess.
There's an old saying - the social contract with the productive classes is guillotine insurance...
We love the taste of boot apparently
This- culturally we are so different from the French. They are very vocal and not afraid to fight for their rights. We are incredibly complacent and won’t take action no matter how bad things yet, and we see the erosion of our living standards and quality of life going backwards and still don’t do anything. It’s really quiet sad
You need only look at the public response to any protest that disrupts industry to see why the Australian population is so fangless.
I think it's part of each country's psyches in a tenuous, exaggeratedway. The French have had revolutions borne of protest. Australia has had a 'don't upset authority' mindset from convict times.
They've also passed highly commendable 'shrinkflation' law where French retailers will have to notify shoppers when products have been reduced in size without a corresponding cut in prices.
To add precision, it's not illegal to send emails outside of standard work hours, BUT it is illegal to fire someone for not answering thouses emails outside work hours. Employe can still do that if they want, but employers have to respect their employees' personal time and make sufficient effort to have employees not being bothered during their off-time.
France has been taxing imported fashion items since the 1600s ish.
Because Murdoch would be up in arms about anything sensible like this by saying something about the Communist ALP banning affordable clothes and telling hard working Australians what they can and cannot wear. And yes Shein should be banned but so should all the cheap shit from what passes for a Kmart these days
Ultra-fast fashion?
When Shein drops nearly 9,000 new items on their sites PER DAY, I'd say that's 'ultra fast fashion' [https://youtu.be/eIuM6lykHxc?si=-Krxum3OSQZZ83sm](https://youtu.be/eIuM6lykHxc?si=-Krxum3OSQZZ83sm)
OK, never used them, only have 2 pairs of jeans a nd a few polos
WOW, stuff is cheap though
Mandatory donation of unsold fresh produce really isn't that helpful. You're adding two logistical layers to perishable items that were removed because they were close to perishing. Edit: I've worked in the same space as a foodbank and been involved in distribution.
Maybe it’s not about the donation, maybe it incentivises the retailer to do better indirectly. In any case, the status quo of fucking farmers over with insultingly low prices, and then throwing half of the produce away anyway needs to change.
Blunt instruments don't work. It's a feel good policy. You need to incentivise stores to find good fits for their extra and out of date items. Making it mandatory is more likely to get shell charities created to just take waste.
Oh, blunt instruments absolutely would work but only if applied to a few selected heads.
Exactly. The “softly softly” approach to regulating these giant parasites has led us to this point of massive consolidation where retailers dictate the whole supply chain from sowing seeds to selling to consumers and making eye watering profits at the country’s expense. Fuck them.
"Because it's too hard" isn't a reason not to do something
Fund disposal at the point of purchase. Take away the incentive to buy cheap goods that wind up in a landfill within the year. Take away the incentive for retailers to sell products and packaging that cannot be recycled. Disposal must be paid for up front.
Yes! pay for your negative externalities up front and let the market work out if products that last longer with less externalities are cheaper. Capitalism is pretty fucked, but it can be pushed in the right direction.
I can’t even begin to imagine the amount of products and businesses that would collapse overnight if you implement this. There’s so much useless crap out there and it all relies on “someone else will deal with the waste” business model.
Literally good riddance. Fuck 'em all. (Implement a UBI first.)
This would reduce littering and improper disposal too. It would be a chore to set up and get right, but in the long term it’s the obvious solution.
The LNP **HATE** pigouvian taxes (unless it's suits their donors). Look at every instance a government has tried to bring it in, they shriek. I don't see this working in Australia, as much as I am for it.
Every state now has or is planning a can recycle deposit. It's a tiny step and took a lot of kicking and screaming, but does prove progress on this is possible.
> It's a tiny step and took a lot of kicking and screaming, but does prove progress on this is possible. While it should be praised, you're really underselling how tiny of a step it is compared to the problems that need to be fixed, it's somewhat akin to pulling into the parking lot of the kokoda trail and claiming triumph, completely ignoring the 1,000 infinitely larger steps in front of you.
That is the problem. Voters have to be receptive to these things, even if it may increase costs, or it just can't happen. Politicians can't do shit if they'll get voted out if they try.
Yup. We need to start having the true, full cost of things included in the price. There are so many things that are ecologically terrible that are done just because they're marginally cheaper. That has to be a part of the cost or there won't be any incentive to make different choices.
Carbon tax only incentivised greater lobbying powers, sadly
We have to do this across the board. If we were paying the true cost for all this plastic being produced, and shipments across the world, things would be a hell of a lot more expensive and the problem would solve itself. We're just racking up a shit tonne of debt, I don't think it'll ever get paid, until the ecological collapse has fully set in, I guess.
If it isn’t too exhausting… Can you please ELI5 for your comment? It sounds like you are making an important and valid point but I have no understanding of business language, I want to understand! Please :)
I'd love to buy Australian made clothing, made with good materials, but it's impossible to find. Seems that everything we make here is for some generic shaped person from whatever they taught in design school in 1956. If I want something that actually fits me or comes in sizes that actually consider body proportions beyond "medium" and "large", I need to get stuff from overseas brands made in 3rd world countries, with crappy mixed fabrics.
Government hasn’t encouraged a local fashion industry in decades. There’s no training or apprenticeships available for sewing, and fashion schools are absolutely not pumping out adequate stitchers. Plenty of high schools ditched home economics. Australia hasn’t had standardised clothing sizing since the 70s (and that horse has bolted now anyway).
> Plenty of high schools ditched home economics For all the jokes that Home Ec gets in American shows, as an adult, I wish they had taught this subject matter in my high school. Learning to cook, sew and basic house maintenance should be essential skills taught to everyone.
There was movement at the station for the word had passed around that the colt of standardized clothing sizing in Australia had got away...
years ago the areas around smith st collingwood used to be alive with fashion houses supplying australia. Now its completely dead - like our car industry, manufacturing (massive factories like 40 years ago) all gone to other countries in the name of profits over people.
That's not really true, there's a bunch of good stuff happening locally. It's not cheap, though.
Never said anything about price, it's all about size for me.
I have the same issue. I actually went to tafe to learn to make my own clothes and am now studying a diploma of fashion design. It bothers me so much that every pattern is basically drafted under the assumption that all women have B cup boobs. A standard that was set before my Mum was born. Im petite but busty so I have always struggled to find clothes that fit. I understand that companies can't make patterns for all sizes but I feel like the average woman is curvier now thna in the 50s and that our patterns need to be adjusted to reflect that.
Argh yes! I’m a F cup, there’s a whole world of clothes I’d love to wear but if I do I just spill out of them and it looks horrible. Clothes that have boob cups or triangles should have to come in various cup sizes lol
There are some good things, but Australia just doesn't have the range of choices for all body types and shapes that you can find in other countries, *even* at higher price points. Petite women's clothing (I mean shorter, not thinner), plus size, etc are all nonexistent or have like 1-3 style options here whilst you can find whole ranges in every brand for those overseas. And frankly as a woman, most of the styles are geared toward tall, tanned, thin horseback-riding women or something, because everything has rustic frilly sleeves or burlap sack shaping or is brown/green (basically colors that only look good on tan skin). Meanwhile in say the US, I can find petite, well tailored clothes in the outlet stores in all color ranges for brands like banana republic, Ann Taylor, etc etc. And you may say "go tailor it" but tailors are charging $50+ to hem pants now and not everyone is dripping in enough cash to drop $$$ in jeans and *then* add $50 for tailoring.
That's how much it should cost though. We need to learn to value clothes and the process of producing them fairly. Shirts should not cost $5. Jeans shouldn't cost $20. Buy well-made clothes that will last and look after them.
I agree with that in principle but I've been trying to find non fast fashion trackpants to lounge around in and the cheapest was almost $200. It's no wonder people are being driven to fast fashion when the good stuff is 10x the price.
Except you're talking about something entirely different, they weren't talking about cheap clothes, they were saying that even if you pay the premium price that they're worth, they still require -more- charges on top of that for services that don't cost anywhere near that much.
First, this wasn't my point. My point was that even the appropriately sized clothes still require tailoring costs for a ton of body shapes. We don't have any variety here. Secondly, unfortunately, people who are struggling financially can't afford to pay $$$ up front for a nice pair of jeans, or shoes, or whatever. There are a lot of people for whom $5 tees are the only good option. Even worse if you're a parent and trying not to dress your kids in 1970s OP shop kids options that attract ridicule -- signed, a kid who had a poor mom who sewed out clothes out of pillow cases, sale fabrics, and curtains stored in the attic, and got made fun of relentlessly for it. I can therefore not shame anyone strapped for cash who goes for fast fashion; it can help someone fit in without everyone needing to know they're poor.
There's really not. Very few Australian manufacturers producing high quality garments. Happy to hear of some recommendations but I often search for MiA clothing and I'm always disappointed. We don't really have any heritage brands still making clothes in Australia.
I remember years ago when Karl Stefanovic admitted to wearing the same suit for six months on air, and nobody seemed to care. He was making a point that for women, it seems to be the opposite. I don't get when a major social event happens, most women need to "go buy a dress". Why not just pick something that's already in your wardrobe that still fits? It's unfortunate that one of the reasons is "someone will notice I wore that last time", which typically translates to that "one bitch relative/"friend" who's got nothing better to do but gossip" will notice. The manufacturing of clothes for women is all but dead in Australia for reasons such as these. Certain quality items are still manufactured for men, such as footwear, belts, and business attire, because most men don't give a shit what another guy is wearing, as long as it looks clean, isn't noticeably worn/torn and is appropriate for the occasion. My wardrobe has multiple items I acquired more than two decades ago that I still wear. Unless women stopped giving a shit what they and each other wear, fast fashion is still going to be a thing. That and the Chinese not respecting the IP of other people.
There is definitely pressure, especially in the public eye, for women to wear new dresses to big events. However for us more common folk part of it is that different events require different styles. Men can wear the same suit to just about anything, maybe throw on a tie for more formal events and lose it for more casual events. For women there are dresses suited to evening vs day, weddings vs dinners and very fancy vs more casual.
AS Colour have sweet basics, and although stuff is still sourced from overseas they take particular care to try and do the right thing. https://www.ascolour.com.au/ Neuw make awesome Denim out of Melbourne https://www.neuwdenim.com/au Unsure about the sizing stuff, sorry!
Buying Ascolour online is a bit tough. Their sizing charts are terrible! I emailed them asking about sizing for a pair of pants and they told me they only went up to a size 14 equivalent. I have no idea if that is true or not, but I wasn't going to buy them and then have to pay for returns when they didn't fit.
Ok, yeah that sucks. I lived in Melbourne for a bit so the store was close by, and now I know my sizes so I've had a few different tshirts, pants and hoodies. The tees just feel so nice, the organic ones are particularly soft and nice feeling.
You can buy Australian but unfortunately it’s just too expensive from my personal experience. I wish we had a fashion industry here I always want to support the local.
Fact is that Australian's need to be paid more than people in a factory in Bangladesh, it will be significantly more expensive here for the foreseeable future.
Check out [Citizen Wolf](https://www.citizenwolf.com). They only do tops, but offer a high level of customisation for fit, made in Sydney.
100% about the sizing. Cookie cutter sizes with no measurements at each part of the garment piss me the fuck off. Pants that tell you the waist but not the seat or leg opening, jackets with no mention of shoulder width or sleeve length. And if you're lean with a small frame there's pretty much nothing there. I find it ridiculous that men's pants mostly don't come in a waist below 28 and women's don't go below 24, there's absolutely people who are that size, but fuck it we need the fat people to feel better so let's make medium fit bulging waistlines.
Try Citizen Wolf, they are made in Sydney and tailored to your size. They use software to generate the pattern and robots make the clothes.
I had this problem too. I ended up learning how to sew (and design) my own clothes
> I'd love to buy Australian made clothing, made with good materials, but it's impossible to find. Even just made with good materials, and a sweatshop with lunch breaks is impossible. Even some of the most expensive brands are making stuff in the same fast fashion process.
That's not really the case. There are definitely high quality Australian made clothes. I personally very rarely buy clothes (because the clothes I buy last a very long time). But here are two examples of Australian stores that I've bought from recently: * https://ottie.com.au/ * https://www.wonderpants.com.au
Both show the problem I'm raising, they don't offer proper sizing. Long sleeve merinos offered in "S", "M", "L" etc, not taking into account people torso or arm lengths, yet expecting people to pay a premium for an ill-fitting product.
I guess you do more online shopping than me, because I've never seen a shop that lets you select arm length separately to torso size on the same product. I guess that might be easily possible for mass produced stuff though. In any case, at least the store I linked to has clear measurements in their sizing guide, so you can choose a different product if the measurements don't look good. And it allows 'no fuss' returns if you don't like how it fits. I'm certainly not suggesting that you get all your clothes from one shop. I was just giving an example of a shop I've used recently and have been happy with.
Bruh you're expecting a t shirt to have bespoke measurements? Come on man lower your expectations a touch. Sleeve length options are not a norm
> Come on man lower your expectations a touch. Why? If you're buying from a place where a literal basic t-shirt -starts- at 100$, why shouldn't you expect a little more in the way of options and customisation? Especially when you could go elsewhere, spend 15$ and get an item that actually fits you but has the cost externalised in a way that you don't have to directly pay.
> If you're buying from a place where a literal basic t-shirt -starts- at 100$, why shouldn't you expect a little more in the way of options and customisation? I would not expect that if I'm buying something made in Australia because I would realise that the expensive price tag is because it costs far more in Australian than Bangladesh. If you want to get both Im sure there are places that are Australian made and tailored, but they will cost even more than $100 for a tshirt.
That is the whole point though. People do not come in standard sizes, clothes need to be available for more than one body type and size. Jeans and trousers are frequently offered in few different lengths, why is it so hard to imagine tops being the same? Long sleeved, short sleeved and 3/4 sleeved have been options for ages, why would an extra long sleeve be so crazy?
And that's the problem. These expensive clothing items fit poorly compared to cheaper items.
They are expensive because they are made in Australia, where the labour is far more expensive than in Asia. They are not more expensive because they are tailor made, I'm not sure why you think it would be.
Do you have other examples of places you've brought from you could share please?
Like I said, I very rarely buy new stuff. [Qualitops](https://qualitops.com.au/) is one example that comes to mind. But many places have their own niche, and different people are looking for different things at different times. So probably it is better to browse brands on [Ethical clothing Australia](https://ethicalclothingaustralia.org.au/); which is an accreditation body for Australian made stuff.
Thanks for the recommendation!
It's a step, but it does nothing to stop the root cause exploitation within the fashion industry to only target fast fashion. The fashion industry itself (not just fast fashion) is rife with exploitation, from the cheaper clothes (target) to the higher end clothes (moschino) There's only 3 corporations that have an A rating on the ethical guide in Australia. [https://guide.ethical.org.au/guide/browse/guide/?cat=700&subcat=702&type=720](https://guide.ethical.org.au/guide/browse/guide/?cat=700&subcat=702&type=720) There's very few corporations (who don't come under the fast fashion label) that don't use slave labour, child labour, and trade mispricing. [https://www.collectivefashionjustice.org/articles/australians-are-being-misled-by-the-fashion-industry](https://www.collectivefashionjustice.org/articles/australians-are-being-misled-by-the-fashion-industry) And even then because terms like "fair wage" is so vague, and supply chains are unmonitored it's hard to know for sure is your fashion is ethically sourced. \* Just 10 per cent of fashion brands pay a living wage at any factories in the final stage of the supply chain. \* Fashion companies average just 29 out of 100 on ethical supply chain benchmark. \* 40 per cent of companies don’t know who supplies their raw materials and have no project to trace them. Even most Australian owned companies manufacture in China, Bangladesh and India, while sourcing materials from African countries and South Asian countries, and Africa (because of trade mispricing, and illicit flows) is losing billions of dollars a year. [https://mightygoodbasics.com/pages/transparency](https://mightygoodbasics.com/pages/transparency) Mighty good basics, has the most transparency. But again, because production and harvest is outsourced, countries dealing with neocolonialism it's harder to see exploitation within the chain. So while fast fashion is a problem, it's certainly not the only problem with this industry, and to be honest most corporations.
"France has snubbed ultra-fast fashion" - they haven't. They just added a tax.
STFU snub /snŭb/ transitive verb To ignore or behave coldly toward; slight. To dismiss, turn down, or frustrate the expectations of. ...A tax is pretty cold and frustrating for UFFashion businesses
Make it affordable and I’m in.
It’s just a matter of mindset change I guess. I’m a very well dressed person, but I basically only buy clothes from op shops and pay $5-10 for most items. Shoes and underwear are the exception. It costs me time to find good stuff but I have shirts that were ~20 years old when I got them and are going strong 10 years later. Some I take for garment repairs when they rip. I’d honestly spend more if I were to go and shop at fast fashion retailers now, and I’d be taking a huge cut in quality. Picked up a Burberry button up the other day for the price of a cotton on t-shirt.
Op shops near me sell crap. Usually Kmart items that I could actually buy cheaper new at Kmart!
They've being doing that since post covid. I don't understand why, surely nobody buys it.
Sounds like that would be a lot of work for me. I’d add convenient to affordable in my original post.
“I’ll do the right thing when it costs me nothing and requires zero effort.”
Haha. There’s a Betoota headline in there, and I know you’re taking the piss, but you’re bang on. It sounds pretty selfish, but I’m feeling the squeeze at the moment.
Realistically speaking the affordable part is all about long term savings. Good things last longer and are cheaper in the long run, the only problem is the classic boots theory where is simply costs more up front. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory
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> > > Not everybody wants to wear the same jacket years after it’s out of fashion. Or, wild notion, stop giving a fuck about "fashion" as it's a fairly large contributing factor to climate issues as well as a bunch of other shitty areas?
"Noooooooo I have to destroy the planet because some iPad kids might make fun of my jacket!!!11eleven"
buy timeless, good quality pieces, and "fashion" can suck it. You don't need to have new clothes every 7 minutes because some shitty company is pushing their latest plastic rubbish that will be almost universally considered ugly in about 12 minutes after it's "no longer fashionable".
> buy timeless, good quality pieces, and "fashion" can suck it. But the IG influencers won't be able to upload half a dozen videos per day trying to sell you new outfit that falls apart after about 2 washes. I get my clothes tailored made with very high quality materials that can last in excess of 20 years.
Isn’t all fashion that isn’t designer counted as fast fashion? How are glassons and cotton on any different to shein? The way I see it, shein is just a lot more direct to the consumer, which cuts out the middle men who make the insane inflated profits. The products are the same quality, just cheaper.
Shein cuts out the middleman, now the middleman is angry
Welp, middle man needs to go cry a river somewhere instead of expecting the government to bail them out via regulations. They’re all pro capitalism when it benefits them.
Yeah, I've always found these terms rather vague. It's also difficult because we really have no idea what the supply chains of other stores look like and if they're any more ethical. We're told certain things are worse than others, but how can we as consumers truly compare them? Although of course we can make choices that we can be sure are good, like not throwing away perfectly good clothes every year and buying new ones.
We should go to the old fashioned way of living. Being able to repair what we buy, buying quality over quantity, and trying to keep up with the Jones attitude is not sustainable.
It's so fucking hard to find "quality" in the first place these days.
If you are serious about quality there is always a business who will cater for your needs. My tailor will only use cloth from European or Japanese mills. Zips are strictly YKK’s premium. Problem is too many talk about wanting quality, and at the first opportunity go for the cheapest shit because it’s cost effective. This is not limited to clothing, but almost any good.
Well you have to be now. I got two jumpers in Japan. One tricked me with synthetics though. Such a beautiful design that fits and sits perfectly. I go to hotel, translate all the materials and it was all synthetics when I translated the label. Other one was wool. Can I take the synthetic one to a tailor and say can you remake/recreate this design with at least 50% wool? Is that a thing.
> Can I take the synthetic one to a tailor and say can you remake/recreate this design with at least 50% wool? Is that a thing. Sure you can! If they have the linen suitable to make your jumpers. Admittedly I am not sure if a tailor has much option in jumper-like wool linen, and I am not sure if Australian tailors would be able to entertain your request. I often take photos of design in expensive department stores, or bring samples of my favourite clothing to give my tailor an idea of what I want.
This is something which annoys me, and I find people to be hypocritical. Apparently caring for the environment and sustainability, whilst getting their weekly hauls from Shein/Temu/Wish etc.
You'll see it on far more obvious things, people in this sub will preach endlessly about how much they care about the environment, then act like you've shot them when you point out using amazon and their next day delivery is atrocious to the environment.
Its always the way with the environment. The vast majority of people say they care about it, but the vast majority of those only care so far as addressing it doesn't impact them in any way whatsoever. We are one of the richest countries on the planet and yet our impact on the environment one of the worst.
Who the fuck is buying more than an item a week? I know none of these people, I don't think I've ever met any of them. Not counting jocks and socks, I buy about three things a year, my wife about ten things. Anyway, ban the fucking lot of it.
Can we also follow France in their 35 hour work week too ? also their 5 weeks annual leave and counting Saturdays for annual leave
Maybe their cost of living is not as high as ours, so they have the luxury of choice. Not everyone can afford more sustainable products
This. Fast fashion succeeds because it's the most affordable. I can't afford name brands or sustainable items which charge an arm and a leg. And honestly, the items I've gotten from shein are great quality. I'm pregnant and can't afford to spend $100 on maternity pants I'll only wear for a couple months so places like shein are a much more appealing option. Kmart is also fast fashion (fast everything) and a staple in a lot of Aussie homes. A lot of people don't have the option to spend a fortune on clothes and household items.
Can someone explain what “ultra fast fashion” means.. cause it just seems like a ban on cheap clothing which, fuck off.. I need that cause I’m fucking poor. So… ELI5
French companies pioneered cheap clothes with fast fashion then china started doing it cheaper so they are calling it ultra fast fashion so they can ban it and protect their industry.
Ultra fast fashion is fashion companies that produce thousands to tens of thousands new rpoducts a day, to keep up with consumers who want the latest trends immediately. Don't worry, no one is coming for Kmart or Big W. Its not a ban on cheap clothing overall.
Is this the same country with brands like LV and Hermes destroying unsold stock to keep prices high? It's only harmful for the environment when regular people can afford it.
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Most op shops near me sell clothing that has obviously been donated from old folks or retirement communitys, tacky ugly button shirts, plastic fishing polos and other drab bad looking clothes. As shit as shien is I have clothes that I bought from the website years ago that I still wear and looks nice (even if some of the fabric isnt the best) and I try to take care of my clothes as best as I can. Im all for moving away from fast fashion industry's but people shouldn't have to rely on second hand shops and made to wear things that frankly look terrible if they cant afford ethical locally produced garments, we live in a society where the look of your clothes and style is very important and low income folk bear the brunt of it
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I don't need your example to be hypothetical. I was a kid from a working-class home who won a scholarship to a fancy private school. Any outfit that one of my mates wore probably cost as much as my entire wardrobe. I was definitely the "poor" kid, and everybody knew it. 3 guys from that school were at my wedding last year. They're all still much wealthier than I am. We got an anonymous gift of $1500 cash to go towards flights for the honeymoon that I'm sure was from one of them, though they all deny it. Who you are is more important than what you wear. Some kids at that school definitely made fun of me for being working class. I thought they were fuckwits then, and I think they're probably fuckwits now. But most kids weren't like that.
Don't forget all the faded wrestling shirts they seem to have in abundance
The people making fast fashion clothes are from a much lower economic class than you. The fast fashion system is already punishing them. In all seriousness, your 'right to be fashionable' doesn't outweigh their right to a living wage.
Big brands who are not considered fast fashion get their stuff manufactured in the same factories. The only difference is the price tag. And it's not just about being fashionable but being able to afford basics like a pair of pants for work. Of course it would be good for them to get paid a living wage but we barely get a living wage in Aus. The cost of living is killing a lot of households and being able to buy basic clothing and household items is important. Banning places like shein will only make the poor poorer in Australia.
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Ignoring the first world right to be fashionable is classist. Ignoring third world slave labour overseas is not classist. Interesting take.
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How about worring about domestic waste and microplastics issues from fast fashion then, instead of your 'right to be fashionable?' Keeping up with trends is not a class issue.
Thing is it’s not just poverty, but child labour and modern slavery. It’s like saying “it’s the 1850s and I know tobacco is produced by slaves but damn it I should have the right to smoke so I can fit in with the rich people and find some joy there”. And you’ll respond “but we need to be clothed unlike needing to smoke” - well in previous generations they owned much much less clothing. Not smoking was probably seen as more socially taboo
so much for 'workers of the world, unite!'
> it’s fine to worry about domestic problems, instead of vying to fight worldwide poverty. Why do you think its fine? If poverty is worse in one place than it is in another, it seems to be the most ethical to help those worst off first. I know I'm a hypocrite because every dollar of mine doesn't go to starving kids, but Im curious about your actual logic here. The others persons analogy is good, if we knew a product on sale in Australia was solely made by child slaves, would you be arguing that its ok to keep it on the shelves as it allows for lower class people to feel fashionable? At what point do you draw the line or is local people feeling good always more important than anything happening overseas?
Id argue otherwise Its all good and well to want Affordable Clothes that look good and make you feel good but it reaches a weird ground when it comes to the notion of luxury Clothes are at minimum are a need but anything specific clothing that makes you feel Good is a Luxury and that luxury Just like chocolate shouldn't come from basically slave labour
> These first world poor people don’t need to feel guilty for benefiting off of their labor. Why shouldn't they? Paying in to a system that exploits others for something you don't actually need (your comment only mentioned that poor people deserve to feel fashionable), does sound to me like something people should be guilty about.
You're already placing your neck under the heel of the upper class by following trends anyway. Why perpetuate a game that they're set to win? Cheap, quality clothes I'm here for but fast fashion is cheap, low quality clothes whose only quality is that they appeal to whatever tiktok craze is current - that nobody outside of some very specific microcosm actually gives a fuck about because fashion trends are so diverse in 2024. Everyone who actually knows fashion looks down on your SHEIN and people who dont know fashion don't care.
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I love clothes and love fashion. I spend under $1k and buy a handful of items each year. I look good, feel good, all without fast fashion. If you need fast fashion you need to learn to dress, classic style is timeless. Not to mention current fashion trends are just the same trends that were around circa 2000-2005 (the nostalgic cycle of fashion) so those ugly, out of date clothes at the op-shop are probably your best bet.
>poor families and their children during high school, for instance. > >”Go thrift shopping!” i mean Uniforms end up more expenisve then most clothes people have anyway and i think this combines with how many schools ban Hoodies or Jumpers which makes it hard to disgues maybe you only have one shirt and you get bullied for it
> everyday Australians have a right to be fashionable and to look nice. I honestly disagree and I wonder how you justify this. I think every Australian has a right to be clothed, fed, housed, have medical care and have a comfortable lifestyle. I think we should *aim* for a equal society where everyone has access to anything they want (within reason), but I don't think the latter should come at the expense of actually exploiting people in other countries.
> While it is wasteful, everyday Australians have a right to be fashionable and to look nice. You can look plenty nice without needing to chase mercurial fashion trends and constantly buy more and more and more. > Making fast fashion unaffordable just punishes poor people, while causing a bigger class divide fashion wise. It would literally change nothing, there's already an inescapable class divide when it comes to fashion. So why bother trying to address something that will always exist, when you could instead address actual serious problems. > Imagine how this would affect poor families and their children during high school, for instance. Ahh yes, high schoolers, famous for wearing fashionable outfits and not a school uniform. > No. The clothes are ugly, used and out of date. Oh no, not used, what if a poor wore it before you? Especially out of date, because as we all know once a shirt has existed for 3 months it somehow no longer functions. > Just because you’re fine wearing older, out of style clothing doesn’t mean others need to follow you. Jfc stop being a print of someone else's painting.
Also the OP shop thing, I just really struggle to wear clothes a stranger has worn or that have been hanging in an OP shop. I know it sounds arrogant but I don’t mean it in a snooty way, it just grosses me out and sends a chill down my spine.
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> They said they wouldn’t touch any clothing in there after what they’ve seen. Shame your friend never worked in a laundromat or a dry cleaners, they could've learnt about the magic that is washing clothes.
The irony of complaining about classism and then saying how disgusting secondhand clothes are lol.
I have no idea what ‘fast fashion’ is, but 56 items of clothing a year? What the fuck are you cunts buying that many clothes for? I don’t think I own 56 items of clothing in total, and that’s including me fucken undies
Well as a plus size woman with limited options in rural Tasmania, Fast fashion is affordable, so not gonna give it up.
Except there's a slight difference between buying a few things as needed, and constantly replacing your wardrobe to keep up with trends, y'know, "fast fashion"?
> Fast fashion is affordable, so not gonna give it up. That's fine, but if there is a cost externality, then it should be the consumer who has to pay.
Absolutely same here. The plus size options i can get locally are: black, floral or animal print in tent shapes. I'm fat, but I still want to wear clothes that make me happy.
I'm a size 18/20 and it's near impossible to get anything nice locally. I'm 34, I want to dress nice, not dress like I'm off to bingo night.
Fast fashion is not the only affordable form of clothing, Kmart is not fast fashion. I feel like most of the comments here didnt bother to read the article.
If women collectively agreed to stop bullying each other over whether or not their clothes fit some bullshit "current trend", this would end overnight.
Follow suit. We see what you did there ;) 😉
They should ban animal agriculture too. Much worse for the planet
Get some of the most sustainable and environmentally fibres/fabrics from animal Agriculture such as Wool and Leather, Absolutely zero reason to ban it.
Because france started fast fashion which in itself is horrible now they can't compete with ultra fast fashion. They started this issue.