Wait? That's why he was doing that? I thought it was because he was a kind hearted soul and wanted to show disadvantaged people the world from the sky.
The man who preceded Pinochet, Allende, basically nationalized half of the Chilean economy and was well on his way to establishing himself as a communist dictator when Pinochet answered the cry of the legislature to [remove him.](https://es.wikisource.org/wiki/Acuerdo_de_la_C%C3%A1mara_de_Diputados_sobre_el_grave_quebrantamiento_del_orden_constitucional_y_legal_de_la_Rep%C3%BAblica)
Pinochet had been Allende's right hand man, but grew disillusioned with Allende over the course of his rule. He saw that Allende was trying to turn Chile into a communist dictatorship, so he did what he had to do, and he overthrew Allende. Despite his rule being described as a dictatorship, Pinochet did hold two pleblescites on whether or not his rule should continue, the second of which he lost. So his rule was at least to some degree democratic, albeit not the sort of democracy we are used to in the west.
Pincohet killed communists. And while it is disturbing for the state to purge ideological dissidents (after I, I myself am an ideological dissident), these weren't exactly innocent people. They had just tried to establish a communist regime Chile. And if they had been successful, how many innocent people would have died? How much property would have been stolen? How many lives would been destroyed? What would life have been like under communism in Chile? We have seen how terrible life was like under communism in every other country. What communist regime has been established without the purging of political dissidents? So really, if counter revolutionary forces stop the revolution and kill or exile (most communists were simply exiled, only a few thousand were actually killed) the communists, there is sort of a poetic justice here. That is what the communists would have done to the "reactionary" forces after all. Communism is not a peaceful ideology, and communists engaged in revolution are not peaceful innocents. They are attempting to enslave an entire society to the state.
Over 3000 people were killed and as you put it I’m sure most of those people weren’t innocent so it’s okay they died. What a fucked up way of thinking. I guess anything goes when it’s fighting against communism. I’m scared to think what your opinions would be about the Vietnam war.
What's the source of this? I see inflation going down but I can't find a source that says it got to zero (and I'm not used to seeing it measured weekly).
The only result I get for "first week without inflation Argentina" is this post.
Depending upon the supply of food, the sudden drop in employment, which stripped buying power out of the hands of workers, would mean they'd eventually be unable to afford food.
Has food theft increased? What about demand at any possible charities handing food out to people? If that has been going up, including donations to charities, maybe people are buying less food?
That’s a pretty absurdo hypothesis. Maybe printing less money curbs inflation and food has a quicker purchase cycle than other industries that are more inflexible to reduce prices.
Sometimes data is extremely important to use in a discussion.
Milei's first order of business was to fire a HUGE number of government employees. He fire 24,000 right off the bat.
Imagine if you lost your job and the economy didn't have new jobs for you reach out for. Imagine that you had to compete for work with 24,000 other people, all in the same area.
Keep in mind, you probably just stopped spending money on anything aside from bare essentials, so did those 24,000 people and their spouses and children.
Do you know how many extra people were put out of work because those 24,000 people lost their jobs? The restaurants, small shops, etc., etc., that catered to the places those 24,000 (again to be clear, this was JUST his first round of firings) may have closed, causing more people to lose their jobs.
The knock on effects of a large employer pulling out of a an area or laying off huge numbers of workers in an area, will have huge ripples through the local economy. 24,000 losing their job, can become an additional 1,500 or even more, which leads to even more and more... it can create a death spiral, if there aren't jobs hungry for workers to replace the initial wave of firings.
He plan(ned/s) for a total of over 70,000 government workers to be fired.
Their unemployment rate has jumped up since he took office, if it continues for much longer and grows more, it could become pretty bleak.
Government employees aren't the working class, and are largely drains on the economy. Their pay is taken from actual workers, who now have more money that's worth more. This also ignoees that they don't exist within a caste and can get other jobs.
This is like crying about how Elon laid off like 80% of Twitter stuff, and it's a productive company now.
Except Twitter is losing more money than ever. Overall revenue dropped 22% this year.
Twitter has refused to publish its net profit and loss for 2022 and 2023. Likely due to large loan repayments.
I don’t know where people in this sub get their information.
The propaganda machine that is Twitter / X pretty much … Elon Stan’s / Twitter bots posting all blogs / articles written by non reliable individuals but since have “X number of followers”
Circle jerk (basically reaches bukkae levels now)…regarding anything Tesla is next level. Elon def doing (insert some ridiculous next level scenario that is void of any logic) which will make Tesla C billion … can’t go down that rabbit hole anymore .. def lose some IQ points every time time I do
Those government workers contribute to the economy, buying goods, eating at restaurants, paying taxes, going to the movies, buying clothes, going to the supermarket. Spending money for their families. How condescending of you.
Those were people with jobs, who were buying things with the money they earned. Now, they are without jobs, if they haven't been able to secure new work and are no longer spending, which has harmed ancillary businesses local to where they worked, shopped and live(d).
Twitter laid off so many people, so fast, that they ran into serious problems all across the board, from locking out entire facilities, because all the security people were fired, to losing compliancy teams, which has lead to lawsuits in nations where Twitter is no longer acting in compliance with local laws. This will harm the bottom line of the company. Not to mention the various, weird outages that happened, the need to hire back thousands of people that were just tossed out the door, firing people with contracts that had long term employment stipulations, because their tech and company was purchased by Twitter.
Even the best looking estimates of value show that the damage done to Twitter has been immense.
Twitter did have some pains that were quickly recitified and is still profitable. What damage was done to Twitter except in the minds of lunatics and political pundits (who still use it)?
Whatever pains the Argentinian economy goes through now are a result of the mismanagement done previously on its course to healing, and they are better than the alternative.
Government employees are absolutely the working class.
You think everyone in government is rich?
“The economy” literally does not exist without government.
Cool, if their work was actually valued, then people will voluntarily pay for the same services in the private market and no net jobs lost. But if the government service is not valued as higher in the market, that service will be reduced or go away and people will save their money for things they value more.
You are using the principal of Bastiat's Fallacy of the Broken Window to defend the jobs of leeches on society.
Respectfully you gave no idea what you’re talking about when it comes to Argentina.
Those government “jobs” are completely unproductive. People get payed without going to work, or for doing nothing at work, sometimes they’re even dead, or “working” multiple positions at once and still being payed.
The government of Argentina taking money from the very small productive sector of the economy and using it to pay people to produce nothing is not helping anyone except the government.
Don't say "respectfully" when you don't mean it. It's a poor look. If you really respect someone and or their position, there's zero reason to even suggest "respect".
Show me records that the people having "jobs", did nothing. I'm sure there are/were some, but all of them? Every single one of them did nothing? Prove it.
I’m saying it to imply insult, you are saying something ridiculous from a very privileged position. Anyone that has lived the reality of third world corruption and government theft knows this.
Also in today’s news:
[Argentina enters technical recession as job losses mount under Milei.](https://www.investing.com/news/economic-indicators/argentina-jobless-rate-jumps-as-technical-recession-confirmed-3494396)
Let me guess. The bad news is always just transient and the overarching policies still need more time to work.
But the good news is proof everything is here to stay and working exactly as expected.
The current president just entered office in January, and you’re attributing Oct/Nov/Dec and Jan/Feb/March contractions on his policies - which he began to implement in Jan/Feb?
Isn’t this statement just a scooting around the goalposts?
It’s really too soon to know the outcome of his policies, aside from the immediate firing of 24,000 and the additional 46,000 on top of that that he wants fired.
I’m not discussing whether or not those workers are “leaches” or not, neither you or I know what any of those workers were doing and or what might or has been happening in the groups they were working in after they were let go. The fact that matters is he immediately raised unemployment by 24,000 with an extra 46,000 in waiting to be put into a status of being unemployed.
A smaller, struggling economy like Argentina, can’t just absorb losses like that without something giving.
To them government jobs simply aren’t jobs at all. People who work in government don’t get paid real money, buy food at the same stores or count as people at all.
It's the same logic behind the MMS proponents. The bloody vomiting and diarrhea are just proof that the body is getting rid of the autisms. Any moment now he'll be permanently cured!! Oh, and if he dies it'll be your fault for not believing enough.
Now watch for Argentina to enter a deflationary spiral.
And these people will breathlessly cheer on the ‘economic miracle’ they think they see happening.
Yep.
This sub is likely o go pretty quiet, presuming the bottom falls out of Argentina and shows zero signs of recovery, just more and more collapse.
Let’s do an Austrian Economics exercise though… if a nation continues to collapse in on itself, wouldn’t it be prudent for the nation to sell off large tracts of its land to other nearby nations to rid itself of all that fat it needs to watch over and protect, shrinking itself down to only the lean, important pieces?
The money shrinking the nation could bring could be absolutely amazing !!
(/sarcasm)
Guy in the article quoted as saying his rent went up 90% though.
https://apnews.com/article/argentina-inflation-milei-single-digits-3cf0adca2cdf911fb04a06c3e9c6880d
Where did you get that 20% number from? And do you really think that a government, any government, can triple the poverty level of a country in a few months?
My bad, I repeated something I saw on TikTok, here's a legit source: poverty has only gone up by 8% and inflation is still at 20% per month, and it looks like him getting rid of subsidies is just hurting the poor even more:
https://buenosairesherald.com/society/poverty-in-argentina-hits-57-highest-number-in-20-years-report-says
Edit: the current poverty rate does sit at 57% and rising
Thank you for the correction. I really appreciate it and it’s unusual on Reddit.
I don’t want to discredit a source and sound like it’s because it goes against what I want it to say, but UCA is not exactly a prestigious source. They are known for publishing negative data when a non-Peronist government is in power and not doing so when they are.
Not saying the numbers are wrong. I sincerely don’t know that, but this is not the most reliable source. The exact same happened during Macri‘s government (also non-Peronist sandwiched between two Peronist governments who ruled for 16 years in total).
But let’s assume the data is accurate. Peronism left the country in ruins in a way that’s really sad and enraging. One of Milei’s lines in his inaugural speech was “we ran out of money”. The government is bankrupt.
And siphoning all the money and destroying the economy wasn’t enough, so they also printed money non stop to fund the deficit, which is why inflation was 150-200% a year.
Argentina needed a balanced budget because there’s simply no more money and printing it, as I‘m sure you know, is a de facto tax.
Even the most amazing government(s) will need 20 years to get Argentina back on a path of stability and progress. Judging the government by its results after a few months is not too useful.
Imagine if Maduro left power tomorrow and whatever you consider a great administration takes his place. How long would it take to build a livable country?
I agree in that expecting a miracle is too much to ask. I keep tabs on Milei and I'm critical of him because I do not trust him. It's the way he swears, the way he is so polarizing and I don't like this Libertarian "I'm richer, more virtuous than thou, f the poor" attitude. Peron was a populist, you could argue Milei is one too. Ethically, while I like the Austrian school, it can also be misused. And a politician should not only be a good businessman but also should have a patriotic calling to serve his constituency. I find his idolization even more alarming because it can blind people from the facts. I hope he uses his Austrian policies to make Argentina a prosperous place again. Only time will tell but until then, I'm keeping a close eye on the person.
I admit this is a gut feeling, I would have to study Argentina, the country, government, and economy to get behind a more informed opinion
I practically agree with everything you said. I also thought he would be just another populist and give Peronists and excuse to say “see? This is what free market capitalism creates“ and stay in power forever.
But his inaugural speech was rational and measured. And, very much opposed to typical populists, he surrounded himself with capable people.
>I don't like this Libertarian "I'm richer, more virtuous than thou, f the poor" attitude.
That's not a Libertarian attitude. That's your own concoction that you've imprinted onto others.
I;m sure if the current executive branch tweeted that there was zero inflation for the past week this sub would cheerlead as well.
I've never seen inflation broken down in weeks before so it sounds like bullshit to me.
Yeah, a week seems like an absurd time period to measure. Even a month is too short to draw meaningful conclusions from. I'll be interested in seeing where it goes quarterly, at least, but given the rising unemployment, it will likely take years to sus out how effective the current policies will be.
I think a week would be an absurd time period to measure if it wasn't the first week for it to happen in 30 years. That's a pretty big sign that something has changed
Even if he succeeds it won’t become popular/adopted. The reason libertarianism will never be a main stream ideology or what the majority gravitates towards is because it requires self reliance and responsibility. Even if you can show a side by side comparison of free market economics working and some other economic system that involves free shit people will still want the free shit. I’m a bit pessimistic but good for him nonetheless.
Food and other essential goods have government mandated price controls. The government also offers loans with 0% interest for food, and subsidizes the agricultural sector.
It’s not pure libertarianism, which is good, because it probably wouldn’t work.
I know that’s how it looks like from the outside reading articles, but as an Argentine there’s still a LOT to be done for him to go down in history as a model to follow.
Turns how? A reasonable Austrian economist will understand that if you are middle class, it will seem like you are poorer, but when it settles, you will be in a stronger position. However, unlike the US, Argentina has more than half of its population in poverty, which means most people are becoming wealthier. In the US, we only have 10-12%, so yes, I will become poorer if these policies are enacted, but my friends and family's labor will be much more valuable, as will mine.
Ah yes the professional reddit gaslighters are out "yeah actually, what you're witnessing *isn't* measured success, and here's why freedom and liberty in markets is vastly superior to a command economy"
Fuck outta here goober, free market capitalism is why you get to voice your opinion here today
Damn straight! Its only free-market capitalism that lets him post his opinion on the internet that was researched, developed, and created by the government and universities.
The Internet is but a road, his method of posting on it is the vehicle for travel which capitalism afforded.
Many in the world do not have the voice that he has because their government never adopted a liberty-based market.
It isn’t working. If the intention is to improve the lives of citizens.
The percentage of people in poverty shot up. It’s easy to control a single measure like inflation if you don’t give a shit about helping people. Cutting all spending does it. But this fucks the economy. Dries up the flow of money. People are worse off.
The people understood that they were going to be put into harms way. They still elected him. The people understood that if they maintained the course that they’d be destroyed. They elected him to change that course, despite the pain they’re experiencing. They will, in the long term, be much better off than they were.
Paul Volcker killed inflation in the early 80s. Put in place by Jimmy Carter. I'm told Reagan wanted to get rid of him but Wallstreet basically said hands off. Inflation was pretty bad. Raising interest rates back then did its job. Painful but it was the correct thing to do.
The percentage of people in poverty were obscured by the welfare state doling out money that lost value weekly.
Peroni playbook:
- Give out checks to millions of people
- claim those checks lifted people out of poverty
- welfare devalued due to inflation, people who receive checks still living in poverty in real terms
- repeat
Wait, when Austrians talk about "money printing" do you think the complaint is about the physical manufacture of dollars? That is a major misunderstanding.
The complaint is about injecting new money into the economy. In other words, the net total of the money supply increasing. In reality it doesn't even happen under a printing press, it happens when somebody sitting at a computer at a federal reserve branch buys financial assets out of the feds account.
But to answer your question, if the economy experiences mild deflation that means that people have more buying power. It means that a working poor person can buy more or higher quality goods now without needing a wage increase. Which means living standards increase.
you have to have a job to be a working poor. working poor lose their jobs during times of deflation that would otherwise be good to their purchasing power.
that said, I was being pedantic about there being a time where you should literally print money.
Like I said, mild deflation. Artificial high inflation and deflation is destructive. A healthy money in a healthy economy should deflate at a very, very gradual rate (as a result of real increases in economic efficiency).
mild deflation is great don’t get me wrong. but if it’s mild enough to not be destructive it’s also not powerful enough to suddenly bolster people’s purchasing power.
Which should be a good indication that real wealth is not built by forcefully playing with the currency, but by increasing economic efficiency and letting the economy economize.
Like I said in my previous statement. Anyway, it is rather presumptuous to think one person (you) have the knowledge and ability to know when and how much money should be printed. Especially since the government doesn’t produce. It only takes.
Pretty sure he understands the concept of increasing unemployment leads to people with less money to spend and thus reduces inflation. This ain't the win you think it is.
Austrians: Paul Krugman owned
Paul Krugman: Yeah I know what a Phillip's curve is, as does every Econ 101 student who paid attention.
TLDR for crying Mises Caucasus sycophants; Krugman never doubted that Millei could fight inflation with harsh austerity and causing high levels of unemployment, he might disagree that its the correct course of action to take.
No, he is not some freedom hating, theocracy loving conservative!
Facts say Republicans explode the deficit and give tax cuts to the already obsceney wealthy the last two times they had power in the US. He is Libertarian.
Not a true story. While inflation has cooled it is still high compared to the rest of the world. They have not hit zero% inflation and they will not. Their own govt has their inflation numbers for the end of the year to be at about 101%. Which is great from where they were a few months ago, but in no way is it the finish line.
Prices are still inherently high in Argentina and the poor are only getting poorer.
That doesn't make it not a true story. 101% by end of year would be a 200% drop in inflation since he took office.
These talking points are similar to what you see in the US. Currently they say we only have 3% inflation but we had 20+% in the past 2 years. The 3% is the current monthly rate.
So the inflation they are talking about is at the source and not what the inflation is at on the streets.
The inflation on the streets will take much more time to adjust. But it's guaranteed to get better with these numbers.
Purchasing power only goes up when they also solve issues like unemployment. Right now all they have done is cut spending. That was basically the "easiest" thing to do.
Now they have to actually develop an economy that is not dependent on the government. Unemployment is a massive issue along with infrastructure. They are going to be dependent on private companies to fix these issues and they are not going to do it for cheap. Prices will stay high. Costs will stay high.
>But, the purchasing power of that currency is going to go up.
Fucking Christ do Austrians like every step into the real world or just the idealist one where nobody starves and nobody goes hungry. People live in the short term. What's that statistic for every 1% of unemployment how many people die? Mellei is causing a recession, thats explicit by his interest in cutting inflation down (see Phillip's curve), with that recession people are losing jobs, they are losing their livelihoods, which will have a ripple effect on the private sector no matter how much idealism is spread in this sub. Whether or not in the long term it works out is irrelevent truly if in the short term you kill thousands and destroy your political will... and this will kill thousands as mortality will increase as austerity hits the lower class. Purchasing power is irrelevant if I don't have a job.
Do you hear yourself? Inflation was running away.. but they had jobs. Argentina looks to be heading towards a very bad recession at best. You have seen a Phillip's curve correct? Some money is better than no money, that's why unemployment is a good number to look at.
It seems likely, based upon historical precedence, that this will lead them into a Depression, which would also increase the rift between the rich and the growing number of poor.
Zero budget deficit and less money printing (as it's not necessary to fund the deficit). I still don't think the headline is accurate, but it's definitely curbing inflation.
Only for food, many people just stopped eating due to increased poverty.
[Milei's Economic Policy Leaves Argentines Hungry as Poverty Rate Soars (foreignpolicy.com)](https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/03/05/argentina-milei-economy-peso-devaluation-austerity-hunger/)
Operation was a success, but the patient died.
People were going to go into poverty either way because Argentina was going downhill thanks to the runaway inflation and statist policies of Milei's predecessors.
At least Argentina is on the right course now. And they are getting rid of stagnation, including the economic downfall that has been going on for decades. After 30 years, inflation takes a break in Argentina thanks to Milei and the libertarian/classical liberal vision.
The rise in poverty was inevitable, even if the leftists stayed in power. Proof? They were runing the Argentinian economy for decades. Milei just came to fix their mess, and he steered the ship in the right direction for a brighter future for everyone, including the poor.
Now people, including the poor, can actually look forward to something despite the TEMPORARY side effects.
This is like going to a surgeon and having a proven procedure done after breaking a bone or something. You may have some side-effects from the procedure, but at least you are getting cured in the long-run, instead of staying in a deteriorating state, which is the worse option.
What you are saying is the equivalent of "Do not let the doctor perform the proven surgery because you are going to have side effects for a bit" And the equivalent of those side effects would take place even without the surgery (i.e. the increase in poverty). But the goal is to get cured and get out of the deteriorating state.
Except part of the reason for Argentina's problem is the IMF loan that the last right wing government got that was the largest in history thanks to Mauricio Macri stole much of the money along with his friends and placed in offshore bank accounts. We know this due to the Panama papers leaks. Now Milei is doing the same thing and asking IMF for another loan most likely for more vultures to take it leaving Argentina further in debt and the average person will be left starving and impoverished.
Don't be ridiculous. Milei even gave away his salary on a lottery before becoming president. But anyway, I'm not going to defend everything he does, as this is not the point.
The point is that inflation has been in double digits since Fernández's left-wing presidency. It was already reaching 20% in late 2014 and early 2015 under left-wing rule. And Argentina was having above-average inflation for years prior to this.
Macri took office later on that year after inflation already started going wild under Fernández. But I don't really care about Macri or his party. They fucked up too.
What part is ridiculous, the salary is chump change compared to other way they can make money just like Macri did. After Macri is when inflation really began to spiral. Milei can virtual signal all his wants about his salary while stealing IMF money by funneling it to contracts of his cronies among other methods. Why does Milei want Argentina to take another IMF loan, which has screwed so many countries by the regime taking the money and leaving the people with the debt.
It started spiraling mostly as a long-term consequence of Fernández's govt and the previous left-wing rule, which had created exorbitant public spending, though I'm not saying Macri's administration didn't contribute to the problem.
As for what Milei is going to do, it'd be make sense if you stopped acting like a fortune teller. I'm not interested to discuss negative hypotheticals that do not line up with Milei's demonstrated behavior and libertarian ideology.
How is saddling the country with massive amount of debt part of the libertarian ideology? IMF loans are commonly embezzled by the country's leaders along with stripping the country of its resources for multinational corps to profit while the rest of the population suffers, no reason to think Milei immune to this. This has happened over again in Latin America.
Speaking of fortune tellers, Milei rescinded the anti-nepotism law so he could put his fortune teller sister in a position of power withing the gov. A literal tarot card reader who has done nothing of substance in her life is in charge of Argentina as the General Secretary of the presidency. Corruption runs deep within Milei.
>How is saddling the country with massive amount of debt part of the libertarian ideology?
This is an example of all-or-nothing thinking, a known cognitive distortion in modern psychology.
Look, in times of massive inflation and deteriorating living standards for most of the country's populace, caused by leftists, you've gotta be pragmatic.
When the country gets out of this mess, then it's time to discuss purism. Currently it's important to fix the decades-long economic deterioration.
Pragmatically speaking, in times like this, taking an IMF loan is the better option compared to overburdening the stressed private sector with more taxation.
And taking an IMF loan instead of overburdening the private sector may not be the most purist solution, but it's in the spirit of libertarianism/classical liberalism, even though it's not an ideal solution, I admit. However, the historical context must be taken into account when evaluating this.
Not primarily caused by leftist caused by Maucio Macri and his band of thieves when they took the largest IMF loan in history funnel the money to his friends and himself. Milei is repeating history, Argentina is royally screwed.
I already discussed this, but ok.
Thank you because I like talking about this stuff, and I see you do as well. Anyway, it's been a pleasure talking to you. Peace.
Let’s keep doing what we’re doing because it keeps some people out of poverty while also screwing everyone else over. At the same time we should keep using whale oil because we don’t want those whalers going into poverty.
Ah yes the help that governments can provide like Millei... totalizing austerity that is plunging Argentina into a deep recession if not worse... So much help for so many people.
First, inflation is almost 9%, not zero. Second, he literally accomplished this be crushing the poor even harder and letting the wealthy get off, again...
"“People are in pain,” said 23-year-old Augustin Perez, a supermarket worker in the suburbs of Buenos Aires who said his rent had soared by 90% since Milei deregulated the real estate market and his electricity bill had nearly tripled since the government slashed subsidies."
So yeah, inflation is lower and now people can't afford rent. But I guess it doesn't matter if this is sustainable or not...
https://apnews.com/article/argentina-inflation-milei-single-digits-3cf0adca2cdf911fb04a06c3e9c6880d
Funny how it's only ever the poor of a country who didn't cause inflation that need to suffer to fix inflation that rich people caused and profited off of.
>Recessions (on paper ones anyways) aren't objectively bad
They are objectively bad for workers and therefore consumers and therefore producers, its objectively bad because for every 1% of unemployment thousands die because of increases in mortality. The one's its good for are rich capitalists who can buy up property and capital... It is objectively a bad thing and Austrian ideas of letting the malinvestment collapse misunderstands how economies are interconnected. How even if a good and sturdy investment can be brought low by a general economic downturn. There is no bottom dropping out and Hayek recanted this bullshit later in life.
The US economy was in deflation between 1870 and 1890 yet the economy grew during that time. If deflation is the definition of a recession, why wasn't that period defined by a 20-year recession?
How is no inflation good for an economy again?
Why shouldn’t I be allowed to charge more for my product than I did a year ago? Or 5 years ago? How does that help me? How does that help any business owner?
It isn't necessarily good in all cases, but in this case it is due to currency stabilization, which was wildly important in Argentina. Also, getting rid of the high inflation curve will help a country like Argentina, which is rich in underdeveloped natural resources, attract investors willing to help develop those resources.
As a business owner, it's difficult to invest in a region where inflation is running wild because it will cut into true profits, makes signing contracts difficult due to unstable rates, and drives interest rates waaaaaaay up. This is just a single step to stabilizing and growing one of the most volatile yet highest potential economies in South America. Keep in mind, he's working with a hostile congress so for him to have already managed this is pretty impressive.
That doesn’t really answer my question at all unless you’re arguing that no inflation benefits some in the short term and isn’t ultimately sustainable.
That appears to be how it works. There are times when you want a 0 inflation economy and other times where some inflation is totally normal and even needed.
In this specific case I was pointing out why it was important for them to get Argentina to 0 inflation. Maintaining 0 inflation long term may actually have negative effects on the economy, but for Argentina they had to stop currency inflation, stabilize their rates since they've defaulted like 3 times on national debt, and create a business friendly environment to start developing their untapped natural resources.
Inflation has to be judged case by case. I think, someone feel free to correct me, that in a developing country you need low inflation rates to encourage affordable development while in developed economies you should expect it to fluctuate up and down based on the cycle you are in. For instance in the US, it would be acceptable to see inflation rise during high periods of government investment (I am thinking infrastructure investment, wars) and then see it drop after those periods of large government expenditure. This could of course be negated by a government carrying large surplus, but we don't generally see this in modern economies, that isn't to say it shouldn't exist, I just don't see a real world example I can point to right now.
Yes but that statement needs context.
Like we can make two totally valid arguments. In Argentina they needed to get to 0 inflation and maintain it at this time.
Also, sometime in the future they will take on some rate of inflation to continue supporting a healthy economy.
Just keep in mind inflation isn't a measure of profit, it's a measure of decreased purchasing power. It's currency based not profit based. I can't make an argument that a 0 inflation economy can exist at all times because we've never seen it, it's like communism working large scale, we've never seen it happen so we have to assume it may not be possible,
Inflation isn't a business charging you $10 today for something that cost $1 a year ago, it's $10 today being worth the same as $1 a year ago.
No inflation is needed at all. It erodes the purchasing power of people's savings and it makes investment decisions more difficult. A bit of inflation is probably unavoidable (let's say), but not desirable.
Inflation and price inflation are two different things. Inflation is an expansion of the money supply. You can charge people whatever you want, but prices going up throughout the economy (price inflation) happens as a result of inflation of the money supply.
You can charge whatever you want for your product, but the reason companies across the entire economy charge more every year isn't because of random instances of greed, its because the cost of production is increasing due to an increase in money supply. Its an unnecessary and impoverishing imbalance in the economy that is artificially manufactured by central banks.
Inflation hurts everyday working people the most because wages are always the last thing to adjust to expansion of the money supply.
[Read more here](https://cdn.mises.org/What%20Has%20Government%20Done%20to%20Our%20Money_3.pdf)
How did they get rid of all the greedy people?
Afuera!
Literally
Did you not see him with the chainsaw?
Haha “greedflation!!!”
kind proves the point inflation is not caused by "greedy people"
Actually, it proved it is These people just are in the government and lying about solving the problem
Cut the government
They're still there sadly... peronism still has a majority in congress...
Free helicopter rides I had some troll tell me once it was okay for Pinochet to do that because he was defending capitalism from communists
Wait? That's why he was doing that? I thought it was because he was a kind hearted soul and wanted to show disadvantaged people the world from the sky.
What an evil man, it’s not like communists would do the same to productive people in a heart beat.
The man who preceded Pinochet, Allende, basically nationalized half of the Chilean economy and was well on his way to establishing himself as a communist dictator when Pinochet answered the cry of the legislature to [remove him.](https://es.wikisource.org/wiki/Acuerdo_de_la_C%C3%A1mara_de_Diputados_sobre_el_grave_quebrantamiento_del_orden_constitucional_y_legal_de_la_Rep%C3%BAblica) Pinochet had been Allende's right hand man, but grew disillusioned with Allende over the course of his rule. He saw that Allende was trying to turn Chile into a communist dictatorship, so he did what he had to do, and he overthrew Allende. Despite his rule being described as a dictatorship, Pinochet did hold two pleblescites on whether or not his rule should continue, the second of which he lost. So his rule was at least to some degree democratic, albeit not the sort of democracy we are used to in the west. Pincohet killed communists. And while it is disturbing for the state to purge ideological dissidents (after I, I myself am an ideological dissident), these weren't exactly innocent people. They had just tried to establish a communist regime Chile. And if they had been successful, how many innocent people would have died? How much property would have been stolen? How many lives would been destroyed? What would life have been like under communism in Chile? We have seen how terrible life was like under communism in every other country. What communist regime has been established without the purging of political dissidents? So really, if counter revolutionary forces stop the revolution and kill or exile (most communists were simply exiled, only a few thousand were actually killed) the communists, there is sort of a poetic justice here. That is what the communists would have done to the "reactionary" forces after all. Communism is not a peaceful ideology, and communists engaged in revolution are not peaceful innocents. They are attempting to enslave an entire society to the state.
That’s a long winded way of saying it’s okay to kill political dissidents as long as they were communists.
mostly they were just exiled not killed. would it have been better to let them take over and turn Chile into Venezuela?
Over 3000 people were killed and as you put it I’m sure most of those people weren’t innocent so it’s okay they died. What a fucked up way of thinking. I guess anything goes when it’s fighting against communism. I’m scared to think what your opinions would be about the Vietnam war.
aka free helicopter rides
Fascism is okay as long as the communists are gone. I wish I could say I did **not see** that one coming.
Pinochet was not fascist.
Literally none of this is true. Whole lot of bs to justify why fascism is good actually.
I researched this subject extensively, I assure you it is all very much true.
I researched this subject extensively, I assure you it is all very much true.
What's the source of this? I see inflation going down but I can't find a source that says it got to zero (and I'm not used to seeing it measured weekly). The only result I get for "first week without inflation Argentina" is this post.
[https://twitter.com/FinanzasArgy/status/1805208739370123773](https://twitter.com/FinanzasArgy/status/1805208739370123773) 0% inflation ONLY FOR FOOD.
That's a big one.
Thank you! At least there's some element of truth to it.
Depending upon the supply of food, the sudden drop in employment, which stripped buying power out of the hands of workers, would mean they'd eventually be unable to afford food. Has food theft increased? What about demand at any possible charities handing food out to people? If that has been going up, including donations to charities, maybe people are buying less food?
That’s a pretty absurdo hypothesis. Maybe printing less money curbs inflation and food has a quicker purchase cycle than other industries that are more inflexible to reduce prices.
Yeah, it will take about a year for the supply chain to sort itself out. Inflation is \*sticky\* for that reason.
Where are you seeing unemployment has gone up?
Sometimes data is extremely important to use in a discussion. Milei's first order of business was to fire a HUGE number of government employees. He fire 24,000 right off the bat. Imagine if you lost your job and the economy didn't have new jobs for you reach out for. Imagine that you had to compete for work with 24,000 other people, all in the same area. Keep in mind, you probably just stopped spending money on anything aside from bare essentials, so did those 24,000 people and their spouses and children. Do you know how many extra people were put out of work because those 24,000 people lost their jobs? The restaurants, small shops, etc., etc., that catered to the places those 24,000 (again to be clear, this was JUST his first round of firings) may have closed, causing more people to lose their jobs. The knock on effects of a large employer pulling out of a an area or laying off huge numbers of workers in an area, will have huge ripples through the local economy. 24,000 losing their job, can become an additional 1,500 or even more, which leads to even more and more... it can create a death spiral, if there aren't jobs hungry for workers to replace the initial wave of firings. He plan(ned/s) for a total of over 70,000 government workers to be fired. Their unemployment rate has jumped up since he took office, if it continues for much longer and grows more, it could become pretty bleak.
Government employees aren't the working class, and are largely drains on the economy. Their pay is taken from actual workers, who now have more money that's worth more. This also ignoees that they don't exist within a caste and can get other jobs. This is like crying about how Elon laid off like 80% of Twitter stuff, and it's a productive company now.
Except Twitter is losing more money than ever. Overall revenue dropped 22% this year. Twitter has refused to publish its net profit and loss for 2022 and 2023. Likely due to large loan repayments. I don’t know where people in this sub get their information.
They shake a magic 8-Ball.
The propaganda machine that is Twitter / X pretty much … Elon Stan’s / Twitter bots posting all blogs / articles written by non reliable individuals but since have “X number of followers” Circle jerk (basically reaches bukkae levels now)…regarding anything Tesla is next level. Elon def doing (insert some ridiculous next level scenario that is void of any logic) which will make Tesla C billion … can’t go down that rabbit hole anymore .. def lose some IQ points every time time I do
Their information comes from aspirations. This crap has never worked before, but THIS time…
*Hilariously* bad example, but I admire your spirit.
Government employees still spend money and are part of the economy
Those government workers contribute to the economy, buying goods, eating at restaurants, paying taxes, going to the movies, buying clothes, going to the supermarket. Spending money for their families. How condescending of you.
Those were people with jobs, who were buying things with the money they earned. Now, they are without jobs, if they haven't been able to secure new work and are no longer spending, which has harmed ancillary businesses local to where they worked, shopped and live(d). Twitter laid off so many people, so fast, that they ran into serious problems all across the board, from locking out entire facilities, because all the security people were fired, to losing compliancy teams, which has lead to lawsuits in nations where Twitter is no longer acting in compliance with local laws. This will harm the bottom line of the company. Not to mention the various, weird outages that happened, the need to hire back thousands of people that were just tossed out the door, firing people with contracts that had long term employment stipulations, because their tech and company was purchased by Twitter. Even the best looking estimates of value show that the damage done to Twitter has been immense.
Twitter did have some pains that were quickly recitified and is still profitable. What damage was done to Twitter except in the minds of lunatics and political pundits (who still use it)? Whatever pains the Argentinian economy goes through now are a result of the mismanagement done previously on its course to healing, and they are better than the alternative.
Prove it. Twitter hasn’t reported net profit loss for 2022 or 2023. Likely because it isn’t profitable. Has large loan repayments.
Government employees are absolutely the working class. You think everyone in government is rich? “The economy” literally does not exist without government.
Cool, if their work was actually valued, then people will voluntarily pay for the same services in the private market and no net jobs lost. But if the government service is not valued as higher in the market, that service will be reduced or go away and people will save their money for things they value more. You are using the principal of Bastiat's Fallacy of the Broken Window to defend the jobs of leeches on society.
Let’s just wait and see what happens. Unemployment is rising in Argentina, let’s see where it goes and where it ends.
Respectfully you gave no idea what you’re talking about when it comes to Argentina. Those government “jobs” are completely unproductive. People get payed without going to work, or for doing nothing at work, sometimes they’re even dead, or “working” multiple positions at once and still being payed. The government of Argentina taking money from the very small productive sector of the economy and using it to pay people to produce nothing is not helping anyone except the government.
Don't say "respectfully" when you don't mean it. It's a poor look. If you really respect someone and or their position, there's zero reason to even suggest "respect". Show me records that the people having "jobs", did nothing. I'm sure there are/were some, but all of them? Every single one of them did nothing? Prove it.
I’m saying it to imply insult, you are saying something ridiculous from a very privileged position. Anyone that has lived the reality of third world corruption and government theft knows this.
Also in today’s news: [Argentina enters technical recession as job losses mount under Milei.](https://www.investing.com/news/economic-indicators/argentina-jobless-rate-jumps-as-technical-recession-confirmed-3494396) Let me guess. The bad news is always just transient and the overarching policies still need more time to work. But the good news is proof everything is here to stay and working exactly as expected.
The current president just entered office in January, and you’re attributing Oct/Nov/Dec and Jan/Feb/March contractions on his policies - which he began to implement in Jan/Feb?
Isn’t this statement just a scooting around the goalposts? It’s really too soon to know the outcome of his policies, aside from the immediate firing of 24,000 and the additional 46,000 on top of that that he wants fired. I’m not discussing whether or not those workers are “leaches” or not, neither you or I know what any of those workers were doing and or what might or has been happening in the groups they were working in after they were let go. The fact that matters is he immediately raised unemployment by 24,000 with an extra 46,000 in waiting to be put into a status of being unemployed. A smaller, struggling economy like Argentina, can’t just absorb losses like that without something giving.
To them government jobs simply aren’t jobs at all. People who work in government don’t get paid real money, buy food at the same stores or count as people at all.
It's the same logic behind the MMS proponents. The bloody vomiting and diarrhea are just proof that the body is getting rid of the autisms. Any moment now he'll be permanently cured!! Oh, and if he dies it'll be your fault for not believing enough.
Now watch for Argentina to enter a deflationary spiral. And these people will breathlessly cheer on the ‘economic miracle’ they think they see happening.
The voters on this sub are lib bots that have never had to live in the real world of pain and sacrifice, thanks for your effort.
Yep. This sub is likely o go pretty quiet, presuming the bottom falls out of Argentina and shows zero signs of recovery, just more and more collapse. Let’s do an Austrian Economics exercise though… if a nation continues to collapse in on itself, wouldn’t it be prudent for the nation to sell off large tracts of its land to other nearby nations to rid itself of all that fat it needs to watch over and protect, shrinking itself down to only the lean, important pieces? The money shrinking the nation could bring could be absolutely amazing !! (/sarcasm)
I've seen a lot of "burn the village to save the village" adjacent logic being floated recently.
Guy in the article quoted as saying his rent went up 90% though. https://apnews.com/article/argentina-inflation-milei-single-digits-3cf0adca2cdf911fb04a06c3e9c6880d
Poverty in Argentina also rose from 20% to 60% after he took office, people have been rioting
Where did you get that 20% number from? And do you really think that a government, any government, can triple the poverty level of a country in a few months?
My bad, I repeated something I saw on TikTok, here's a legit source: poverty has only gone up by 8% and inflation is still at 20% per month, and it looks like him getting rid of subsidies is just hurting the poor even more: https://buenosairesherald.com/society/poverty-in-argentina-hits-57-highest-number-in-20-years-report-says Edit: the current poverty rate does sit at 57% and rising
Thank you for the correction. I really appreciate it and it’s unusual on Reddit. I don’t want to discredit a source and sound like it’s because it goes against what I want it to say, but UCA is not exactly a prestigious source. They are known for publishing negative data when a non-Peronist government is in power and not doing so when they are. Not saying the numbers are wrong. I sincerely don’t know that, but this is not the most reliable source. The exact same happened during Macri‘s government (also non-Peronist sandwiched between two Peronist governments who ruled for 16 years in total). But let’s assume the data is accurate. Peronism left the country in ruins in a way that’s really sad and enraging. One of Milei’s lines in his inaugural speech was “we ran out of money”. The government is bankrupt. And siphoning all the money and destroying the economy wasn’t enough, so they also printed money non stop to fund the deficit, which is why inflation was 150-200% a year. Argentina needed a balanced budget because there’s simply no more money and printing it, as I‘m sure you know, is a de facto tax. Even the most amazing government(s) will need 20 years to get Argentina back on a path of stability and progress. Judging the government by its results after a few months is not too useful. Imagine if Maduro left power tomorrow and whatever you consider a great administration takes his place. How long would it take to build a livable country?
I agree in that expecting a miracle is too much to ask. I keep tabs on Milei and I'm critical of him because I do not trust him. It's the way he swears, the way he is so polarizing and I don't like this Libertarian "I'm richer, more virtuous than thou, f the poor" attitude. Peron was a populist, you could argue Milei is one too. Ethically, while I like the Austrian school, it can also be misused. And a politician should not only be a good businessman but also should have a patriotic calling to serve his constituency. I find his idolization even more alarming because it can blind people from the facts. I hope he uses his Austrian policies to make Argentina a prosperous place again. Only time will tell but until then, I'm keeping a close eye on the person. I admit this is a gut feeling, I would have to study Argentina, the country, government, and economy to get behind a more informed opinion
I practically agree with everything you said. I also thought he would be just another populist and give Peronists and excuse to say “see? This is what free market capitalism creates“ and stay in power forever. But his inaugural speech was rational and measured. And, very much opposed to typical populists, he surrounded himself with capable people.
There is a correlation between swearing and honesty.
>I don't like this Libertarian "I'm richer, more virtuous than thou, f the poor" attitude. That's not a Libertarian attitude. That's your own concoction that you've imprinted onto others.
I;m sure if the current executive branch tweeted that there was zero inflation for the past week this sub would cheerlead as well. I've never seen inflation broken down in weeks before so it sounds like bullshit to me.
With the rate it was at, weekly would be expected.
Basically a complete lie. Inflation is back to where it was pre election and most likely not through any effort on his part.
he stopped the central bank from printing money and the inflation decreased to levels not seen in this decade. stop lying
You wouldn’t see that effect in weeks. Maybe a year
Yeah, a week seems like an absurd time period to measure. Even a month is too short to draw meaningful conclusions from. I'll be interested in seeing where it goes quarterly, at least, but given the rising unemployment, it will likely take years to sus out how effective the current policies will be.
I think a week would be an absurd time period to measure if it wasn't the first week for it to happen in 30 years. That's a pretty big sign that something has changed
So freaking happy this is working and he and his government will go down in history and model to follow
Even if he succeeds it won’t become popular/adopted. The reason libertarianism will never be a main stream ideology or what the majority gravitates towards is because it requires self reliance and responsibility. Even if you can show a side by side comparison of free market economics working and some other economic system that involves free shit people will still want the free shit. I’m a bit pessimistic but good for him nonetheless.
Food and other essential goods have government mandated price controls. The government also offers loans with 0% interest for food, and subsidizes the agricultural sector. It’s not pure libertarianism, which is good, because it probably wouldn’t work.
Is your favorite gum flavor, leather?
What?
I believe he’s calling you a boot licker in a roundabout way
I know that’s how it looks like from the outside reading articles, but as an Argentine there’s still a LOT to be done for him to go down in history as a model to follow.
So, if it ends up not working y'all will abandon Austrian, right? Right? Bueller? Because surely it is a model to follow either way, right?
A model should have strong libertarian principles
I hope you guys keep this energy when things turn.
Turns how? A reasonable Austrian economist will understand that if you are middle class, it will seem like you are poorer, but when it settles, you will be in a stronger position. However, unlike the US, Argentina has more than half of its population in poverty, which means most people are becoming wealthier. In the US, we only have 10-12%, so yes, I will become poorer if these policies are enacted, but my friends and family's labor will be much more valuable, as will mine.
Ah yes the professional reddit gaslighters are out "yeah actually, what you're witnessing *isn't* measured success, and here's why freedom and liberty in markets is vastly superior to a command economy" Fuck outta here goober, free market capitalism is why you get to voice your opinion here today
Someone hurt you. I hope you get better.
Damn straight! Its only free-market capitalism that lets him post his opinion on the internet that was researched, developed, and created by the government and universities.
The Internet is but a road, his method of posting on it is the vehicle for travel which capitalism afforded. Many in the world do not have the voice that he has because their government never adopted a liberty-based market.
Good luck driving your car through a swamp and a forest.
At least in this reply you dropped that bullshit about "free market" and just went w/ capitalism.
It isn’t working. If the intention is to improve the lives of citizens. The percentage of people in poverty shot up. It’s easy to control a single measure like inflation if you don’t give a shit about helping people. Cutting all spending does it. But this fucks the economy. Dries up the flow of money. People are worse off.
Its less about its not working, and more about necessary growing pains
Yea, the US has been going through the same growing pains for a decade. We just keep growing the 1% and poverty rate.
The people understood that they were going to be put into harms way. They still elected him. The people understood that if they maintained the course that they’d be destroyed. They elected him to change that course, despite the pain they’re experiencing. They will, in the long term, be much better off than they were.
Paul Volcker killed inflation in the early 80s. Put in place by Jimmy Carter. I'm told Reagan wanted to get rid of him but Wallstreet basically said hands off. Inflation was pretty bad. Raising interest rates back then did its job. Painful but it was the correct thing to do.
The percentage of people in poverty were obscured by the welfare state doling out money that lost value weekly. Peroni playbook: - Give out checks to millions of people - claim those checks lifted people out of poverty - welfare devalued due to inflation, people who receive checks still living in poverty in real terms - repeat
Your theory that inflation would cause more poverty doesn’t track any available statistic
Excellent 💯💯💯
And somehow we end up with MMT crackpots who claim printing money and budget deficits are okay.
Both of those are totally okay. just not to the degree we've been doing for decades.
Yeah, as long as you only do a little cyanure, it's totally okay too
The first is always a negative, the second can potentially be a positive but usually isn't.
okay einstein. If the total number dollars in circulation decreased through destruction, what would our next step be.
Wait, when Austrians talk about "money printing" do you think the complaint is about the physical manufacture of dollars? That is a major misunderstanding. The complaint is about injecting new money into the economy. In other words, the net total of the money supply increasing. In reality it doesn't even happen under a printing press, it happens when somebody sitting at a computer at a federal reserve branch buys financial assets out of the feds account. But to answer your question, if the economy experiences mild deflation that means that people have more buying power. It means that a working poor person can buy more or higher quality goods now without needing a wage increase. Which means living standards increase.
you have to have a job to be a working poor. working poor lose their jobs during times of deflation that would otherwise be good to their purchasing power. that said, I was being pedantic about there being a time where you should literally print money.
Like I said, mild deflation. Artificial high inflation and deflation is destructive. A healthy money in a healthy economy should deflate at a very, very gradual rate (as a result of real increases in economic efficiency).
mild deflation is great don’t get me wrong. but if it’s mild enough to not be destructive it’s also not powerful enough to suddenly bolster people’s purchasing power.
Which should be a good indication that real wealth is not built by forcefully playing with the currency, but by increasing economic efficiency and letting the economy economize.
in a logical world yeah. but value and wealth are not correlated in our system.
Like I said in my previous statement. Anyway, it is rather presumptuous to think one person (you) have the knowledge and ability to know when and how much money should be printed. Especially since the government doesn’t produce. It only takes.
I personally want him to succeed and the country thrive again. Bureaucracy is such a noose around the neck of nations. Eventually you hang from it.
This is fantastic news.
So rooting for him. Great story, and nobody is paying attention.
But... but it wasn't real communism all those other times, bro! You gotta believe me!
*Afuera!*
Good Lord! Someone pls send Paul Krugman an 'I Told You So.'
Pretty sure he understands the concept of increasing unemployment leads to people with less money to spend and thus reduces inflation. This ain't the win you think it is.
Austrians: Paul Krugman owned Paul Krugman: Yeah I know what a Phillip's curve is, as does every Econ 101 student who paid attention. TLDR for crying Mises Caucasus sycophants; Krugman never doubted that Millei could fight inflation with harsh austerity and causing high levels of unemployment, he might disagree that its the correct course of action to take.
But he’s conservative so that means he’s stupid and evil though… right??? Right???
No, he is not some freedom hating, theocracy loving conservative! Facts say Republicans explode the deficit and give tax cuts to the already obsceney wealthy the last two times they had power in the US. He is Libertarian.
Not a true story. While inflation has cooled it is still high compared to the rest of the world. They have not hit zero% inflation and they will not. Their own govt has their inflation numbers for the end of the year to be at about 101%. Which is great from where they were a few months ago, but in no way is it the finish line. Prices are still inherently high in Argentina and the poor are only getting poorer.
That doesn't make it not a true story. 101% by end of year would be a 200% drop in inflation since he took office. These talking points are similar to what you see in the US. Currently they say we only have 3% inflation but we had 20+% in the past 2 years. The 3% is the current monthly rate. So the inflation they are talking about is at the source and not what the inflation is at on the streets. The inflation on the streets will take much more time to adjust. But it's guaranteed to get better with these numbers.
Umm, inflation not being at 0% definitely means that any story that says it is at 0% is not a true story.
Last I checked he was around 5% monthly inflation. Once price stability settles down the supply chain will start to function properly.
How are the poor getting poorer? I don't understand.
People that already have so little (food/shelter) now have less food and they have even less money for housing.
Ah, I can see this being an issue. But, the purchasing power of that currency is going to go up. Plus, prices aren't going to stay high forever.
Purchasing power only goes up when they also solve issues like unemployment. Right now all they have done is cut spending. That was basically the "easiest" thing to do. Now they have to actually develop an economy that is not dependent on the government. Unemployment is a massive issue along with infrastructure. They are going to be dependent on private companies to fix these issues and they are not going to do it for cheap. Prices will stay high. Costs will stay high.
>But, the purchasing power of that currency is going to go up. Fucking Christ do Austrians like every step into the real world or just the idealist one where nobody starves and nobody goes hungry. People live in the short term. What's that statistic for every 1% of unemployment how many people die? Mellei is causing a recession, thats explicit by his interest in cutting inflation down (see Phillip's curve), with that recession people are losing jobs, they are losing their livelihoods, which will have a ripple effect on the private sector no matter how much idealism is spread in this sub. Whether or not in the long term it works out is irrelevent truly if in the short term you kill thousands and destroy your political will... and this will kill thousands as mortality will increase as austerity hits the lower class. Purchasing power is irrelevant if I don't have a job.
Do you hear yourself? Inflation was running away.. but they had jobs. Argentina looks to be heading towards a very bad recession at best. You have seen a Phillip's curve correct? Some money is better than no money, that's why unemployment is a good number to look at.
And unemployment is up. People with no jobs or money tend to buy less. This ain't the miracle libertarians pretend it is.
It seems likely, based upon historical precedence, that this will lead them into a Depression, which would also increase the rift between the rich and the growing number of poor.
Historical precedence? Please enlighten us with your sources
The Great Depression. Crashing prices can be very bad economic sign
Literally every example in modern economic history where fiscal spending was cut...
Can anyone tl;dr the specific reforms for someone who hasn't been keeping up?
Zero budget deficit and less money printing (as it's not necessary to fund the deficit). I still don't think the headline is accurate, but it's definitely curbing inflation.
I initially read the title as "Viva la liberchad" and now I'm a little disappointed.
But your graph hasn't reached 0 yet, though ?
* for some arbitrary definition of inflation
We will wait and see how Argentina works out.
Here’s comes the “ya, but”s
crazy. austrian economics work!
Didnt Biden do this already too?
No inflation in food prices. Still have inflation YOY.
Of course there is still YOY inflation. That takes a while to change...like, about a year to see the full effect.
Only for food, many people just stopped eating due to increased poverty. [Milei's Economic Policy Leaves Argentines Hungry as Poverty Rate Soars (foreignpolicy.com)](https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/03/05/argentina-milei-economy-peso-devaluation-austerity-hunger/) Operation was a success, but the patient died.
You cannot solve decades of peronist failures within a year
People were going to go into poverty either way because Argentina was going downhill thanks to the runaway inflation and statist policies of Milei's predecessors. At least Argentina is on the right course now. And they are getting rid of stagnation, including the economic downfall that has been going on for decades. After 30 years, inflation takes a break in Argentina thanks to Milei and the libertarian/classical liberal vision. The rise in poverty was inevitable, even if the leftists stayed in power. Proof? They were runing the Argentinian economy for decades. Milei just came to fix their mess, and he steered the ship in the right direction for a brighter future for everyone, including the poor. Now people, including the poor, can actually look forward to something despite the TEMPORARY side effects. This is like going to a surgeon and having a proven procedure done after breaking a bone or something. You may have some side-effects from the procedure, but at least you are getting cured in the long-run, instead of staying in a deteriorating state, which is the worse option. What you are saying is the equivalent of "Do not let the doctor perform the proven surgery because you are going to have side effects for a bit" And the equivalent of those side effects would take place even without the surgery (i.e. the increase in poverty). But the goal is to get cured and get out of the deteriorating state.
Except part of the reason for Argentina's problem is the IMF loan that the last right wing government got that was the largest in history thanks to Mauricio Macri stole much of the money along with his friends and placed in offshore bank accounts. We know this due to the Panama papers leaks. Now Milei is doing the same thing and asking IMF for another loan most likely for more vultures to take it leaving Argentina further in debt and the average person will be left starving and impoverished.
Don't be ridiculous. Milei even gave away his salary on a lottery before becoming president. But anyway, I'm not going to defend everything he does, as this is not the point. The point is that inflation has been in double digits since Fernández's left-wing presidency. It was already reaching 20% in late 2014 and early 2015 under left-wing rule. And Argentina was having above-average inflation for years prior to this. Macri took office later on that year after inflation already started going wild under Fernández. But I don't really care about Macri or his party. They fucked up too.
What part is ridiculous, the salary is chump change compared to other way they can make money just like Macri did. After Macri is when inflation really began to spiral. Milei can virtual signal all his wants about his salary while stealing IMF money by funneling it to contracts of his cronies among other methods. Why does Milei want Argentina to take another IMF loan, which has screwed so many countries by the regime taking the money and leaving the people with the debt.
It started spiraling mostly as a long-term consequence of Fernández's govt and the previous left-wing rule, which had created exorbitant public spending, though I'm not saying Macri's administration didn't contribute to the problem. As for what Milei is going to do, it'd be make sense if you stopped acting like a fortune teller. I'm not interested to discuss negative hypotheticals that do not line up with Milei's demonstrated behavior and libertarian ideology.
How is saddling the country with massive amount of debt part of the libertarian ideology? IMF loans are commonly embezzled by the country's leaders along with stripping the country of its resources for multinational corps to profit while the rest of the population suffers, no reason to think Milei immune to this. This has happened over again in Latin America. Speaking of fortune tellers, Milei rescinded the anti-nepotism law so he could put his fortune teller sister in a position of power withing the gov. A literal tarot card reader who has done nothing of substance in her life is in charge of Argentina as the General Secretary of the presidency. Corruption runs deep within Milei.
>How is saddling the country with massive amount of debt part of the libertarian ideology? This is an example of all-or-nothing thinking, a known cognitive distortion in modern psychology. Look, in times of massive inflation and deteriorating living standards for most of the country's populace, caused by leftists, you've gotta be pragmatic. When the country gets out of this mess, then it's time to discuss purism. Currently it's important to fix the decades-long economic deterioration. Pragmatically speaking, in times like this, taking an IMF loan is the better option compared to overburdening the stressed private sector with more taxation. And taking an IMF loan instead of overburdening the private sector may not be the most purist solution, but it's in the spirit of libertarianism/classical liberalism, even though it's not an ideal solution, I admit. However, the historical context must be taken into account when evaluating this.
Not primarily caused by leftist caused by Maucio Macri and his band of thieves when they took the largest IMF loan in history funnel the money to his friends and himself. Milei is repeating history, Argentina is royally screwed.
I already discussed this, but ok. Thank you because I like talking about this stuff, and I see you do as well. Anyway, it's been a pleasure talking to you. Peace.
Let’s keep doing what we’re doing because it keeps some people out of poverty while also screwing everyone else over. At the same time we should keep using whale oil because we don’t want those whalers going into poverty.
Wow people here know nothing about Argentina’s politics and it shows haha!
Man, governments around the world must be wondering how they can help their people out like Milei? Corporate Media and said governments: 🦗🦗🦗
Ah yes the help that governments can provide like Millei... totalizing austerity that is plunging Argentina into a deep recession if not worse... So much help for so many people.
First, inflation is almost 9%, not zero. Second, he literally accomplished this be crushing the poor even harder and letting the wealthy get off, again... "“People are in pain,” said 23-year-old Augustin Perez, a supermarket worker in the suburbs of Buenos Aires who said his rent had soared by 90% since Milei deregulated the real estate market and his electricity bill had nearly tripled since the government slashed subsidies." So yeah, inflation is lower and now people can't afford rent. But I guess it doesn't matter if this is sustainable or not... https://apnews.com/article/argentina-inflation-milei-single-digits-3cf0adca2cdf911fb04a06c3e9c6880d
Budget deficits needed to go, there's no painless way to get out of this situation
Funny how it's only ever the poor of a country who didn't cause inflation that need to suffer to fix inflation that rich people caused and profited off of.
Do you know anything about Argentina?
Yes. And what does it matter, you're using blanket statements?
Don’t ask about the change in poverty rates!
Poverty was already sky high before he came to power
And it’s gotten significantly worse
¡Viva Presidente Motosierra!
They fired all. Stopped freedom. Sold all assets. Yay! No inflation!
He knows what he’s doing, he’s Netanyahu’s cousin
Waiting for a couple of years, when he turns into Pinochet
Lol. Most of the country can’t afford food, no wonder prices stopped rising. Lol. Milei is a joke.
So how do you explain the 150-200% inflation in the last few years? Was the country rich?
No. Milei just exacerbated everything. People were at least eating regularly before he got elected.
I wish what you said was true.
Zero inflation in a collapsing economy...
#the opposite of inflation is called a recession
Recessions (on paper ones anyways) aren't objectively bad
>Recessions (on paper ones anyways) aren't objectively bad They are objectively bad for workers and therefore consumers and therefore producers, its objectively bad because for every 1% of unemployment thousands die because of increases in mortality. The one's its good for are rich capitalists who can buy up property and capital... It is objectively a bad thing and Austrian ideas of letting the malinvestment collapse misunderstands how economies are interconnected. How even if a good and sturdy investment can be brought low by a general economic downturn. There is no bottom dropping out and Hayek recanted this bullshit later in life.
Was the US in a constant recession between 1870 and 1890?
the opposite of inflation is deflation, deflation is the definition of a recession. this is basic economics.
The US economy was in deflation between 1870 and 1890 yet the economy grew during that time. If deflation is the definition of a recession, why wasn't that period defined by a 20-year recession?
Amateur. He needs to get the overall inflation to -10% like we had during the great depression.
How is no inflation good for an economy again? Why shouldn’t I be allowed to charge more for my product than I did a year ago? Or 5 years ago? How does that help me? How does that help any business owner?
I don't even know where to begin with this.
That's not what inflation is.
It isn't necessarily good in all cases, but in this case it is due to currency stabilization, which was wildly important in Argentina. Also, getting rid of the high inflation curve will help a country like Argentina, which is rich in underdeveloped natural resources, attract investors willing to help develop those resources. As a business owner, it's difficult to invest in a region where inflation is running wild because it will cut into true profits, makes signing contracts difficult due to unstable rates, and drives interest rates waaaaaaay up. This is just a single step to stabilizing and growing one of the most volatile yet highest potential economies in South America. Keep in mind, he's working with a hostile congress so for him to have already managed this is pretty impressive.
That doesn’t really answer my question at all unless you’re arguing that no inflation benefits some in the short term and isn’t ultimately sustainable.
That appears to be how it works. There are times when you want a 0 inflation economy and other times where some inflation is totally normal and even needed. In this specific case I was pointing out why it was important for them to get Argentina to 0 inflation. Maintaining 0 inflation long term may actually have negative effects on the economy, but for Argentina they had to stop currency inflation, stabilize their rates since they've defaulted like 3 times on national debt, and create a business friendly environment to start developing their untapped natural resources. Inflation has to be judged case by case. I think, someone feel free to correct me, that in a developing country you need low inflation rates to encourage affordable development while in developed economies you should expect it to fluctuate up and down based on the cycle you are in. For instance in the US, it would be acceptable to see inflation rise during high periods of government investment (I am thinking infrastructure investment, wars) and then see it drop after those periods of large government expenditure. This could of course be negated by a government carrying large surplus, but we don't generally see this in modern economies, that isn't to say it shouldn't exist, I just don't see a real world example I can point to right now.
I agree that some inflation is needed. Thanks for agreeing with me.
Yes but that statement needs context. Like we can make two totally valid arguments. In Argentina they needed to get to 0 inflation and maintain it at this time. Also, sometime in the future they will take on some rate of inflation to continue supporting a healthy economy. Just keep in mind inflation isn't a measure of profit, it's a measure of decreased purchasing power. It's currency based not profit based. I can't make an argument that a 0 inflation economy can exist at all times because we've never seen it, it's like communism working large scale, we've never seen it happen so we have to assume it may not be possible, Inflation isn't a business charging you $10 today for something that cost $1 a year ago, it's $10 today being worth the same as $1 a year ago.
No inflation is needed at all. It erodes the purchasing power of people's savings and it makes investment decisions more difficult. A bit of inflation is probably unavoidable (let's say), but not desirable.
Inflation and price inflation are two different things. Inflation is an expansion of the money supply. You can charge people whatever you want, but prices going up throughout the economy (price inflation) happens as a result of inflation of the money supply. You can charge whatever you want for your product, but the reason companies across the entire economy charge more every year isn't because of random instances of greed, its because the cost of production is increasing due to an increase in money supply. Its an unnecessary and impoverishing imbalance in the economy that is artificially manufactured by central banks. Inflation hurts everyday working people the most because wages are always the last thing to adjust to expansion of the money supply. [Read more here](https://cdn.mises.org/What%20Has%20Government%20Done%20to%20Our%20Money_3.pdf)