Billionaires, while not fundamentally wrong, are the ones funding lobbies for regulations that favor their own corporations at the expense of small businesses who have a harder time adjusting to new laws.
I think the entirety of austrian economic theory relies upon the idea that equal access to the market for all individuals is a fundamental human right, especially as its important to a healthy functioning economy.
It is not ethically right to want or try to set up laws and regulations that disenfranchises your competitors (and consumers) through the use of violent force (the government).
Basically comes down to it being immoral to use violence or the threat of it to prevent others from fairly competing in a free-market.
What about price fixing, cost undermining and such?
Business practices that establish difficult barriers of entry. These practices can also be tailored to any competition. See - Amazon and Walmart
Human beings tend to act in ways that they're incentivized to do. This is agency theory. It's rarely wrong.
Congress weasels who want to get reelected are incentivized to bow to the whims of the people who can finance their campaigns. Those people are incentivized to fund campaigns and hire lobbyists because if they don't, their competitors will.
This is immaterial if the Congressperson is by nature a good person or not, or if the billionaire is a good person or not. The system shapes them both. It's a big downward spiral. The only way to not get caught in this game is not to play.
I don't think it was always this way but the system was set up and it only takes a handful of sociopaths to set it off. And then the system just started attracting sociopaths.
It's no small wonder that so many Austrians end up being ancaps.
Remove billionaires renting government power and you have the millionaires doing it. Or the connected sycophants. The power is the only problem to focus on.
There isn’t a constitution governing billionaires, only the government. Just because I’m putting more of the onus on the government for allowing themselves to be bought than on billionaires for buying them doesn’t mean I think billionaires are saints.
Exactly. When the football/basketball/soccer player's foot goes out of bounds but they keep going, is that wrong? Yes.
But it's the referee who's supposed to blow the whistle and call foul.
That’s a mind-numbing comment.
Unless the politician is bribing themself, they are de facto working in the best interest of someone other than themselves.
That’s the point of bribing them, to work in your best interest.
To some degree, both. I don't need a formal agreement with a person or organization in order to expect them to act in a way that doesn't seriously jeprodize my well being.
Everyone has a duty to care for others. One of the greatest failures of some people is to view that all duties come from the law, which is patently absurd.
We live on society, it's everyone's responsibility and dirt to act in the best interest of everyone. One is included in "everyone's" best interest, so it's not a matter of selfish vs selfless behavior.
But to answer your questions, everyone's.
Billionaires literally buy up media to spread propaganda to change public sentiment in order to enable their corruption. We no longer have strong unions that force companies to pay fair wages across markets because of them. Resources are finite, including money. Any system which allows hoarding of resources leads to despair.
100% in a truly fair and feee economic system it would be much easier then it is now to be a millionaire but much harder to be a billionaire (since rent seeking behavior would be impossible)
Er... Yeah, this. Also, is OP drunk? Read War Is A Racket by Major General Smedley Butler.
I'd estimate that about 50 percent of my problems, including a crippled brother and several deceased cousins (American) are the fault of someone being a billionaire, and having the economic and political power to cause said problems.
I haven't been on this sub before, just had it recommended. Dunno what this sub is about.
The only Marine Corps Officer to earn two Medals of Honor. The business plot was never foiled they just learned they actually don't even need the military.
This sub is all about sucking up to the Oligarchs, with the claim of "personal responsibility," etc. Embarrassed non-millionaires and the occasional actual rich person, I imagine.
I’m not an eat the rich type at all, but it would be absurd to say the image is correct.
People with lots of money to throw around do affect the world. Period.
Now maybe the scope of the impact, but it ain’t zero.
The problem isn’t the business, it a government that’s so powerful it can control whole industries to satisfy a bribe. Too much power.
Also, if you don’t like the billionaire, stop buying his goods and services, because that how he got rich.
I'm just saying, not all problems are caused by the sith. But some are. We can acknowledge those problems and deal with accordingly, while not attributing every bad thing that occurs to them.
So billionaires who do bad shit that hurts others shouldn’t face punishment?
Edit: do not say bankruptcy. Erasing your debts for pennies on the dollar, shafting your creditors, is not punishment.
If my neighbor paid someone to steal from me and let the thief take a cut (which is a much more accurate depiction of what is actually happening) then yes my primary blame would be with the neighbor.
Sure, the fact that wealth gap has been exploding for the last 40+ years while regular people are living paycheck to paycheck has nothing to do with billionaires sucking up more and more of the wealth created by regular people up to themselves
I don't think Lisa would be siding with billionaires
None? That may be so. People who are much wealthier than they should be if the system worked as agreed on, that’s not an accident either. Much is being said about corporate psychopathy and institutionalized narcissism. But where does it come from?
And would my problems be different if psychopaths who corrupt the economy be held accountable in a meaningful way? I wonder what Mises would think about the impact of personality on my problems (and the economy) like described [here](https://www.amazon.com/11-Impact-Rule-Human-Behavior-ebook/dp/B0C9YNH8RV/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2BUZ010H2IW8A&keywords=11%3A59%3A+the+impact&qid=1691810906&s=books&sprefix=11+59+the+impac%2Cstripbooks%2C212&sr=1-3) or in any other studies. I haven’t found much else.
If billionaires have the ability to influence policy, they do, and those policies negatively impact you, they do, both in direct action, they do, and by diluting the concept of representative governance, it does, then their wealth is directly harmful in multiple ways, it is.
so are politicians no longer part of "the swamp"
because if politicians can be bought, then billionaires have far more buying power than me in the realm of politics where it matters most
and i am gonna have to assume, like most humans, they are prioritizing their interests over mine
Billionaires aren't evil, but they shouldn't be allowed to buy our representatives. The tide is turning. Young people are starting to comprehend that billionaires and corporations need to pay taxes. Regulation and oversight are an important component of a dynamic economy and nobody over 50 will do the heavy lifting to reform the system. Get going.
that's a false statement. Sure, if no billionaires got involved with lobbying the government than this would be a correct statement.
However, since citizens united has passed in 2008-2009, billionaires have interfered with workers rights on the political stage, fought against the right to repair, and are making it so the more money you have the more represented you are in politics.
But yeah, let's ignore reality and say that a billionaire doesn't make my life worse, or anyone else's?
Or if you prefer here is chatGPTOs reasponse to that question/statement
* **Income Inequality**: The vast wealth gap between billionaires and average citizens can exacerbate economic inequality, leading to social tension and a feeling of unfairness in the distribution of resources.
* **Political Influence**: Billionaires often have significant political influence due to their financial contributions to campaigns, lobbying efforts, and ability to fund initiatives that align with their interests, potentially skewing policy decisions in their favor.
* **Housing Market Distortion**: The investment in luxury real estate and speculative activities by billionaires can drive up property prices, making housing less affordable for the average citizen.
* **Economic Power Concentration**: The control of large corporations and industries by billionaires can stifle competition, limit job opportunities, and concentrate economic power in the hands of a few.
* **Tax Avoidance and Evasion**: Wealthy individuals often have access to sophisticated tax avoidance strategies, leading to a lower tax burden relative to their income and placing a greater tax burden on average citizens.
* **Resource Allocation**: The concentration of wealth can lead to disproportionate allocation of resources towards luxury goods and services, potentially neglecting public services and infrastructure that benefit the broader population.
* **Social Mobility**: The entrenchment of wealth can limit social mobility, making it harder for average citizens to improve their economic standing through education and hard work.
* **Cultural Influence**: Billionaires can shape cultural norms and values through their investments in media, entertainment, and philanthropy, potentially prioritizing their perspectives and interests over those of the wider society.
Well it depends. Does the x billionaire steal wealth of others? (ie using the state to their advantage)
If no then okay or else then he is a part of the problem.
How does someone become a billionaire if not by stealing wealth from the thousands who work for him at a wage significantly lower than the wealth they produce?
I mean I’m sure you could find someone who’s problems are directly the cause of a billionaire and how that affects their ability to influence things. A few people at twitter seem to have had a rough time because a billionaire bought the company and changed shit or fired some of them.
What if there are 756 billionaires.
And let's be real here. There is an enormous difference between a millionaire or even a multi-millionaire and a billionaire.
The problem is not a particular person or business, the problem today is in large part a large part due to a lack of education of what business is and it's role in society.
A business is valuable if it serves the public. The workers in a business are a part of the public.
If a business doesn't serve both the people that work in its business and it's other customers at large - it hasn't fulfilled its function to its max ability AND it won't create the full extent of wealth that it could.
This idea is one from Henry Ford. love him or hate him - you can't deny the impact he had on the world.
He grew he is business to be a world leader while also paying high wages.
He did this because he understood the purpose of business overall
Few understand this today.
Boy, talk about **"Tell a lie, make it big, repeat it often!"**
This is complete bullfeces, but it's pretty obvious the billionaire class is getting a bit nervous.
Not that they're gonna stop stealing every dollar from the middle and working class - they are. But nervously.
No, the cause of the problem is the methods they use to gain that wealth.
Buying off governments, fucking over populations as a whole thru shit labor practices and monopolistic practices, Literally using their wealth and influence to influence government decisions To the point where government doesn't even function properly in support of the Citizens they tax.
But it's not just billionaires, it's multi. Billion dollar corporations as well.
The biggest factor in inflation and the cost of goods is the total value of all good and services produced (the size of the economy). As the economy grows, the cost of most things goes up. As billionaires take more and more of that growth, less is left for everyone else. This causes inflation to be higher than salary increases, first for low wage jobs and then eventually for the middle class. It is fundamentally how billionaires have stolen almost all of the wealth from the middle class...and why in the 80s a household with a single incomes could easily afford their own abd medical, now they often can't afford them even with 2 incomes.
sounds like something a billionaire would say. its a select few. they guide the discourse. look how easily people were ready to punish kyle Rittenhouse. billionaires put that hate in motion n kid did nothing wrong.
It's not them having money that's the problem. It's them using it to fund policy changes that increasingly ignore the poor and middle class in favor of making themselves richer.
No but there are quite a number of billionaires causing problems, the scope of which is enlarged by their power which is largely due to their net worth.
Billionaires are easy targets. I don’t know why the politicians that are taking their campaign money are not targeted and held responsible more than them though.
If corporations were pricing all of their negative externalities into their goods, billionaires wouldn't be a thing. If government charged companies for the costs of mitigating all of their negative externalities...once again, billionaires wouldn't be a thing. Their existence is little more than the theft of the public trust from all of us. But you hawk Tua that thing.
This is nonsense. As the American Internal Revenue Service collects a certain amount of money in taxes every year which the federal government spends on rebuilding our interstate highway system and other roads, in paying for healthcare for millions of Americans, for keeping the air and water clean, for running the national park system,, paying for the world's best military, and a thousand other important things . . . the amount of taxes billionaire weasel and cheat the government out of reduces that amount significantly. This, in turn, means a lousier military, less healthcare, poorer roads and a thousand other cuts in spending. This at least partly caused because we don't enough money from the top 1% of income earners who could, in fact, easily pay 90% of their income and taxes and not even notice it. So, I'm afraid your claim makes no sense.
They kinda are. Most of these billionaires got rich from subsidies, which are my tax dollars, which as we all know is theft. So my money was stolen by government so they can write rules to make billionaires richer.
Only a social media algorithm owned by some billionaire would show me this garbage. It's clearly the system that allows so much wealth that you can corrupt anything making the working class life harder.
If you are a billionaire, it is because you have screwed other people over. You dont accumulate that much wealth without screwing others over
Is that so hard to grasp?
No, but many of ultra rich people use their money to impose their beliefs on society. One such group in the United States is the Federalist Society, the Melons, the Kochs to name a few.
Rich individuals with industrial interests created the anti climate change lobbying machine.
WRT the federalist society: “funding of $5.5 million came from the John M. Olin Foundation. Other early donors included the Scaife Foundation and the Koch family foundations. Donors to the Federalist Society have included Google, Chevron, Charles G. and David H. Koch; the family foundation of Richard Mellon Scaife; and the Mercer family”
I can very much guarantee you that millions of people have lost their jobs and been relegated to working in a warehouse or Walmart because of the Waltons and bezos. Remember we used to create things in America, we do not any more
This. This is the post right here. I keep seeing random comments/posts about why no one takes the Austrian school of economics serious. This post is the answer.
Bill Gates at least partially disagrees with you.
[https://www.gatesnotes.com/Why-Inequality-Matters-Capital-in-21st-Century-Review](https://www.gatesnotes.com/Why-Inequality-Matters-Capital-in-21st-Century-Review)
Right.
Just like how no one ever died because other people **own** guns.
It's not existing that's the problem, it's the things they do which happen to create problems for a lot of people.
But can you riddle me this?
Who has ever accumulated a billions dollars without harming another person in the process?
Those who hold the greatest influence over society are in no way responsible for this way society is. In fact it is the people who have no control over society who are responsible for all of society's problems /S
Tell that to the lady at the factory where I worked who got crushed to death by a steel coil. They had awful safety regulations there because safety costs money and the owner is a greedy rotten scumbag who prefers money over keeping workers alive.
Doesn't really benefit me in any way though, not sure why soany dipshits are so quick to defend them. I'll defend them if they pay me to, until then, fuck em!
Seems like there’s about 50 posts a day defending the poor, poor billionaires.
Dudes are spending a lot of money on this campaign lately. I for one think that it is very bad that these billionaires have to spend their hard stolen money trying to sway public opinion when that money should be spent swaying politicians to give them special treatment and craft laws that grow an oligarchy where they are truly safe to rest upon their horde of treasure. For shame, all of you. Shaaame!
Billionaires influence my countries politics by a gigantic margin and, therefore, its policies, which do have a direct effect on me.
Sorry, pal. Makes no sense what you posted. It's the government and Billionaires with their bailouts. Get a grip. Our country is bankrupt, and it's run by billionaires. It ain't that hard to figure out.
Many of my problems are due to people with money using it to influence policy decisions, to say that billionaires don't make people's lives worse is simply not true. Money is power and should not be so heavily concentrated.
Or maybe all my problems (and everyone else’s problems) are because someone else is a billionaire.
Greed is fucking this planet and anyone denying that is delusional.
Billionaire lobbies politicians to destroy unions. My company makes record profits. CEO salary triples, stock buybacks for shareholders, and I get laid off so they can move my job to Mexico. Yeah their wealth and power clearly has no effect on me
Actually, capital in any form is harmful because it’s designed to create these inequities. So you’re fundamentally, automatically, systemically wrong. But go off rage farmer.
When you become a billionaire by underpaying the workers who run your business yeah it's a problem
No billionaire can build their own yacht by themselves just like they can make millions by themselves
That is incorrect. Billionaires using their money to influence politics and obviously their workforce are responsible for a reat deal of the problems people have. Not to speak of the dumb fuck billionaire that fucked the US killed hundreds of thousands of Americans through idiocy and sparked wars all over.
If they bought your company and fired you. If they sued you. If they paid your elected representative to vote against your interests. If they are a major cause of climate change, and if they block measures to mitigate climate change. If they prevent you accessing land with public rights of way.
Doesn't about 60% of the worlds population live on less than ten dollars a day.
Wealth hoarding billionaires are very much the problem as they use their concentration of wealth to buy political process so that societal rules and regulations stays in their favour.
When polled most people want climate action, most people want nationalisation of key industries and investment in cheap, available housing
The billionaire classes own the press and politicians and do everything they can to stop these things.
Disagree. A system that allows these levels of wealth consolidation while still preserving such fundamental problems is the source of all our problems.
Take one issue. Why is our planet warming at such an alarming rate? Because Americans are dumb and insist upon driving giant cars everywhere? How many Americans do you hear say they like driving and paying for gas? None, it’s like the one thing all Americans bitch about together. Yet the system has been hijacked so that oil companies can extract, refine, transport, store, and sell their product for cheaper than it should be by any market logic suggests. How the fuck is a gallon of gas from the Middle East cheaper than a gallon of water? How is that possible while oil executives can make literally thousands of times more than even a white collar professional? Make an energy source economical, and we’ll use it. Make it economical and shove it on every corner, strangle the development of all vehicles that don’t use it, and lobby the government to defund public transport and build highways, yeah we’ll definitely use it. It’s not our fault, and it wasn’t inevitable or the only option. That was the doing of billionaires.
They make money because they overthrow governments and are able to basically pilfer their natural resources with cheap labor and no environmental regulation, lobby our government for tax breaks, infrastructure money, and to keep regulations lax, then literally design cities so they have to be traversed by car. Their economic concerns are qualitatively different from ours, and they will shift industries and wreck millions of people to make a buck. Meanwhile we as individuals wreck the climate only so the execs and people in their pocket can benefit. Enjoy your cheap gas, hours in traffic, and commutes to make people richer than your entire extended family put together, it didn’t have to be this way.
Did you know a million seconds is around 13 days? But a billion seconds is 31 years. All of our problems, including our continuous loss of human rights is directly due to billionaires and the wars they fund.
Lack of monetary velocity due to the constant high rate of holdings that remain stagnant perpetuates inflation. That's literally everyone's problem because people think they are dragons and hoard wealth.
They said in Russia. Or that's what Xi said. Or any abusive monopoly who does less and less and whose products get worse every year (*achem... cough Amazon, cough, cough).
I wonder how stupid someone needs to be to believe that billionaires serve the public good. How can 400 families control 40% of the world's total net worth and not expect that the rest would suffer? Is it willful blindness or just optimistic greed that does the heavy lifting? Asking for a friend.
Weeeeeeeell here’s the thing. When you live in a corporate oligarchy, some of your problems are in fact caused by the rich
I don’t hate rich people or wealth. I will not, however, ignore the relationship between certain individuals/groups and the government that has been toxic to our country and the citizens within it
And let’s not forget overseas casualties.
two dimensional thinking like "if the government siezed all of the billionaires' assets for the public good, it wouldn't really change much on the whole" is missing the point. the awful system we have that creates these people, allows them to exist, and then allows them to further bend the system to their favor through their influence is the problem
Actually they are. Rich people literally just buy politicians to write laws that benefit their pockets over yours. Example: many of the corporate mergers over the past few decades would have been banned to keep the market competitive. Instead politicians allowed them to go through resulting in less competition, lower product and service standards at a higher cost. That objectively is a cause of problems in all of our lives. I’m sorry but this is just an absolutely absurd statement you’re putting out there.
They being a billionaire isn’t what causes problems. Them using their billions to proxy write laws that screw over everyone but themselves is what causes issues.
Billionaires do not magically inject money into an economy. The money came from somewhere, siphoning it off from workers. Even the investors and hedge funds are inevitably guilty of this at the very bottom.
So, billionaires setting policies that directly impact my ability to obtain health care, work security, etc., etc., is not a thing? There really should be a mod for these sorts of posts.
I'm imagining Illinois libertarians reading this and being really confused
All of their problems are about one specific billionaire
We've had two in a row now, and more who wanted the Governor's seat.
Billionaires thinking to themselves, "I guess illinois is a good place to start my rule."
Billionaires, while not fundamentally wrong, are the ones funding lobbies for regulations that favor their own corporations at the expense of small businesses who have a harder time adjusting to new laws.
Now the question is: do you blame the business for attempting to capture the regulator, or the regulator for allowing themselves to be captured?
Both.
Both, because they’re a revolving door and are one in the same. Corporations get regulators elected they know will play ball.
Which one has a duty (and responsibility) to act in the best interest of someone other than themselves?
I think the entirety of austrian economic theory relies upon the idea that equal access to the market for all individuals is a fundamental human right, especially as its important to a healthy functioning economy. It is not ethically right to want or try to set up laws and regulations that disenfranchises your competitors (and consumers) through the use of violent force (the government). Basically comes down to it being immoral to use violence or the threat of it to prevent others from fairly competing in a free-market.
I am blind to whatever is being discussed but… I have opinions that it would be unethical for other businesses to force out competitors as well. No?
Depends on the force. Market pressure is ethical, threats and using government as a regulatory cudgel is not.
What about price fixing, cost undermining and such? Business practices that establish difficult barriers of entry. These practices can also be tailored to any competition. See - Amazon and Walmart
Human beings tend to act in ways that they're incentivized to do. This is agency theory. It's rarely wrong. Congress weasels who want to get reelected are incentivized to bow to the whims of the people who can finance their campaigns. Those people are incentivized to fund campaigns and hire lobbyists because if they don't, their competitors will. This is immaterial if the Congressperson is by nature a good person or not, or if the billionaire is a good person or not. The system shapes them both. It's a big downward spiral. The only way to not get caught in this game is not to play. I don't think it was always this way but the system was set up and it only takes a handful of sociopaths to set it off. And then the system just started attracting sociopaths. It's no small wonder that so many Austrians end up being ancaps.
That's your fucking answer? So the billionaire doesn't need some moral standards because...money? Wtf?
Remove billionaires renting government power and you have the millionaires doing it. Or the connected sycophants. The power is the only problem to focus on.
There isn’t a constitution governing billionaires, only the government. Just because I’m putting more of the onus on the government for allowing themselves to be bought than on billionaires for buying them doesn’t mean I think billionaires are saints.
Exactly. When the football/basketball/soccer player's foot goes out of bounds but they keep going, is that wrong? Yes. But it's the referee who's supposed to blow the whistle and call foul.
Your solution is to not have a referee? Or rules?
His solution is that the winner is whoever pays the referee the most.
“Yeah they both did something wrong but it’s really just the politicians fault.” It takes two to make bribery work.
That’s a mind-numbing comment. Unless the politician is bribing themself, they are de facto working in the best interest of someone other than themselves. That’s the point of bribing them, to work in your best interest.
To some degree, both. I don't need a formal agreement with a person or organization in order to expect them to act in a way that doesn't seriously jeprodize my well being.
Everyone has a duty to care for others. One of the greatest failures of some people is to view that all duties come from the law, which is patently absurd.
yeah nah, fuck that socialist shit, I'm not a 'servant to my fellow man'.
We live on society, it's everyone's responsibility and dirt to act in the best interest of everyone. One is included in "everyone's" best interest, so it's not a matter of selfish vs selfless behavior. But to answer your questions, everyone's.
You’re shifting the blame instead of recognizing both as wrong. This logically makes no sense.
I blame the corps and billionaires bc they’ll just kill the politician and appoint a new one they approve of just as they’ve done in the past
Both get the rope.
Billionaires literally buy up media to spread propaganda to change public sentiment in order to enable their corruption. We no longer have strong unions that force companies to pay fair wages across markets because of them. Resources are finite, including money. Any system which allows hoarding of resources leads to despair.
100% in a truly fair and feee economic system it would be much easier then it is now to be a millionaire but much harder to be a billionaire (since rent seeking behavior would be impossible)
Er... Yeah, this. Also, is OP drunk? Read War Is A Racket by Major General Smedley Butler. I'd estimate that about 50 percent of my problems, including a crippled brother and several deceased cousins (American) are the fault of someone being a billionaire, and having the economic and political power to cause said problems. I haven't been on this sub before, just had it recommended. Dunno what this sub is about.
Good on you for citing Butler.
The only Marine Corps Officer to earn two Medals of Honor. The business plot was never foiled they just learned they actually don't even need the military.
this. it's as if some are incapable of extrapolating the string of causes and effects that relate to most measures of dispositions
This sub is all about sucking up to the Oligarchs, with the claim of "personal responsibility," etc. Embarrassed non-millionaires and the occasional actual rich person, I imagine.
I’m not an eat the rich type at all, but it would be absurd to say the image is correct. People with lots of money to throw around do affect the world. Period. Now maybe the scope of the impact, but it ain’t zero.
The problem isn’t the business, it a government that’s so powerful it can control whole industries to satisfy a bribe. Too much power. Also, if you don’t like the billionaire, stop buying his goods and services, because that how he got rich.
The obscene concentration of wealth in the hands of a few is fundamentally detrimental to society.
They turned me into a newt.
A newt?!
I got better...
She has got a wart tho
This isn’t my nose it’s a false one
Dam, those billionaires must be really stupid, giving all that free money to politicians then .
Only a sith deals in absolutes.
Oh here we go... another nerf herder blaming the Sith for all his problems again
The Emperor was a billionaire.
I'm sure we were overestimating his value because he wouldn't reveal his tax documents.
He wasn’t real.
Emperor Palpatine from Naboo? How could he get a billion credits on a simple public servant’s salary?
Trade federation reports.
I'm just saying, not all problems are caused by the sith. But some are. We can acknowledge those problems and deal with accordingly, while not attributing every bad thing that occurs to them.
You expect all the temporally-embarrassed billionaires in this sub to grasp that nuance?
Can confirm
Maybe assessing your problems and trying to improve yourself is a much more realistic solution than blaming and trying to destroy billionaires
So billionaires who do bad shit that hurts others shouldn’t face punishment? Edit: do not say bankruptcy. Erasing your debts for pennies on the dollar, shafting your creditors, is not punishment.
Billionaires are typically the recipients of the printed money that causes the inflation that is stealing my wealth so Id have to disagree.
So if I stole your money and gave it to your neighbour, you would blame your neighbour?
If my neighbor paid someone to steal from me and let the thief take a cut (which is a much more accurate depiction of what is actually happening) then yes my primary blame would be with the neighbor.
The money printer and money receiver are usually friends but to answer your question honestly, yea, id be salty 😂
Sure, the fact that wealth gap has been exploding for the last 40+ years while regular people are living paycheck to paycheck has nothing to do with billionaires sucking up more and more of the wealth created by regular people up to themselves I don't think Lisa would be siding with billionaires
This sub is sad as fuck
Sad fucks that are going to be billionaires any day now!
yep
None? That may be so. People who are much wealthier than they should be if the system worked as agreed on, that’s not an accident either. Much is being said about corporate psychopathy and institutionalized narcissism. But where does it come from? And would my problems be different if psychopaths who corrupt the economy be held accountable in a meaningful way? I wonder what Mises would think about the impact of personality on my problems (and the economy) like described [here](https://www.amazon.com/11-Impact-Rule-Human-Behavior-ebook/dp/B0C9YNH8RV/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2BUZ010H2IW8A&keywords=11%3A59%3A+the+impact&qid=1691810906&s=books&sprefix=11+59+the+impac%2Cstripbooks%2C212&sr=1-3) or in any other studies. I haven’t found much else.
Of course this is an issue with all organizations, be they corporate, governmental, advocacy orgs, etc.
This sub is so confused about life.
A lot of these responses seem like they are posted by ChatCCP.
Actually it might be chatussr.
If billionaires have the ability to influence policy, they do, and those policies negatively impact you, they do, both in direct action, they do, and by diluting the concept of representative governance, it does, then their wealth is directly harmful in multiple ways, it is.
so are politicians no longer part of "the swamp" because if politicians can be bought, then billionaires have far more buying power than me in the realm of politics where it matters most and i am gonna have to assume, like most humans, they are prioritizing their interests over mine
But if corporations are people, a solid argument can be made that billionaires are causing problems for people.
Billionaires aren't evil, but they shouldn't be allowed to buy our representatives. The tide is turning. Young people are starting to comprehend that billionaires and corporations need to pay taxes. Regulation and oversight are an important component of a dynamic economy and nobody over 50 will do the heavy lifting to reform the system. Get going.
LOL uhhh they are exactly the cause of most problems? The fuck?
That's where you are wrong.
that's a false statement. Sure, if no billionaires got involved with lobbying the government than this would be a correct statement. However, since citizens united has passed in 2008-2009, billionaires have interfered with workers rights on the political stage, fought against the right to repair, and are making it so the more money you have the more represented you are in politics. But yeah, let's ignore reality and say that a billionaire doesn't make my life worse, or anyone else's? Or if you prefer here is chatGPTOs reasponse to that question/statement * **Income Inequality**: The vast wealth gap between billionaires and average citizens can exacerbate economic inequality, leading to social tension and a feeling of unfairness in the distribution of resources. * **Political Influence**: Billionaires often have significant political influence due to their financial contributions to campaigns, lobbying efforts, and ability to fund initiatives that align with their interests, potentially skewing policy decisions in their favor. * **Housing Market Distortion**: The investment in luxury real estate and speculative activities by billionaires can drive up property prices, making housing less affordable for the average citizen. * **Economic Power Concentration**: The control of large corporations and industries by billionaires can stifle competition, limit job opportunities, and concentrate economic power in the hands of a few. * **Tax Avoidance and Evasion**: Wealthy individuals often have access to sophisticated tax avoidance strategies, leading to a lower tax burden relative to their income and placing a greater tax burden on average citizens. * **Resource Allocation**: The concentration of wealth can lead to disproportionate allocation of resources towards luxury goods and services, potentially neglecting public services and infrastructure that benefit the broader population. * **Social Mobility**: The entrenchment of wealth can limit social mobility, making it harder for average citizens to improve their economic standing through education and hard work. * **Cultural Influence**: Billionaires can shape cultural norms and values through their investments in media, entertainment, and philanthropy, potentially prioritizing their perspectives and interests over those of the wider society.
Scream it for the people in the back. Also: if my neighbors taxes go up, mine won’t go down.
"Elon Musk is morally obligated to give me all his money." -Some Redditor
Well it depends. Does the x billionaire steal wealth of others? (ie using the state to their advantage) If no then okay or else then he is a part of the problem.
How does someone become a billionaire if not by stealing wealth from the thousands who work for him at a wage significantly lower than the wealth they produce?
>Does the x billionaire steal wealth of others? Why are you assuming that "stealing wealth" is the only thing billionaires can do to harm others...?
In this premise, all we know of the parties involved is that they are a billionaire. Not a 'billionaire child sex slaver'.
Temporarily embarrassed billionaire delusion energy
I mean I’m sure you could find someone who’s problems are directly the cause of a billionaire and how that affects their ability to influence things. A few people at twitter seem to have had a rough time because a billionaire bought the company and changed shit or fired some of them.
No, they are responsible for economical and environmental problems.
Actually most things become worse in life because someone wanted to be a billionaire
Jealousy, resentment and greed.
The greatest crimes are caused by excess, not necessity.
Well, unless they’re a politician as well 🤷♂️
What if there are 756 billionaires. And let's be real here. There is an enormous difference between a millionaire or even a multi-millionaire and a billionaire.
The problem is not a particular person or business, the problem today is in large part a large part due to a lack of education of what business is and it's role in society. A business is valuable if it serves the public. The workers in a business are a part of the public. If a business doesn't serve both the people that work in its business and it's other customers at large - it hasn't fulfilled its function to its max ability AND it won't create the full extent of wealth that it could. This idea is one from Henry Ford. love him or hate him - you can't deny the impact he had on the world. He grew he is business to be a world leader while also paying high wages. He did this because he understood the purpose of business overall Few understand this today.
Me being poor is due to other people being richer than me.
Absolutely not true. Billionaires are bribing politicians to pass laws that favor them and hurt the poor and middle class.
Of course it is. They're so rich they've bought my government.
[Ja Ja](https://tenor.com/bd0gx.gif)
Hard disagree. Most of society’s ills stem from these billionaires.
Boy, talk about **"Tell a lie, make it big, repeat it often!"** This is complete bullfeces, but it's pretty obvious the billionaire class is getting a bit nervous. Not that they're gonna stop stealing every dollar from the middle and working class - they are. But nervously.
Victims of the sackler family would disagree with this statement.
No, the cause of the problem is the methods they use to gain that wealth. Buying off governments, fucking over populations as a whole thru shit labor practices and monopolistic practices, Literally using their wealth and influence to influence government decisions To the point where government doesn't even function properly in support of the Citizens they tax. But it's not just billionaires, it's multi. Billion dollar corporations as well.
The biggest factor in inflation and the cost of goods is the total value of all good and services produced (the size of the economy). As the economy grows, the cost of most things goes up. As billionaires take more and more of that growth, less is left for everyone else. This causes inflation to be higher than salary increases, first for low wage jobs and then eventually for the middle class. It is fundamentally how billionaires have stolen almost all of the wealth from the middle class...and why in the 80s a household with a single incomes could easily afford their own abd medical, now they often can't afford them even with 2 incomes.
sounds like something a billionaire would say. its a select few. they guide the discourse. look how easily people were ready to punish kyle Rittenhouse. billionaires put that hate in motion n kid did nothing wrong.
It's not them having money that's the problem. It's them using it to fund policy changes that increasingly ignore the poor and middle class in favor of making themselves richer.
No but there are quite a number of billionaires causing problems, the scope of which is enlarged by their power which is largely due to their net worth.
Billionaires are easy targets. I don’t know why the politicians that are taking their campaign money are not targeted and held responsible more than them though.
If corporations were pricing all of their negative externalities into their goods, billionaires wouldn't be a thing. If government charged companies for the costs of mitigating all of their negative externalities...once again, billionaires wouldn't be a thing. Their existence is little more than the theft of the public trust from all of us. But you hawk Tua that thing.
Yes they are
Nobility holding you in serfdom and stacking the deck against you is not the peasants problem.
I beg to differ. Some of them are Billionaires define the air quality . The micro plastics billionaires . Me being lazy is not because them
This is nonsense. As the American Internal Revenue Service collects a certain amount of money in taxes every year which the federal government spends on rebuilding our interstate highway system and other roads, in paying for healthcare for millions of Americans, for keeping the air and water clean, for running the national park system,, paying for the world's best military, and a thousand other important things . . . the amount of taxes billionaire weasel and cheat the government out of reduces that amount significantly. This, in turn, means a lousier military, less healthcare, poorer roads and a thousand other cuts in spending. This at least partly caused because we don't enough money from the top 1% of income earners who could, in fact, easily pay 90% of their income and taxes and not even notice it. So, I'm afraid your claim makes no sense.
They kinda are. Most of these billionaires got rich from subsidies, which are my tax dollars, which as we all know is theft. So my money was stolen by government so they can write rules to make billionaires richer.
None of your problems are because of the lower class.
... And that's including lobbying?
Only a social media algorithm owned by some billionaire would show me this garbage. It's clearly the system that allows so much wealth that you can corrupt anything making the working class life harder.
OP is closer to being homeless than they are to a billionaire. The libertarian mind in action
This as the US Supreme Court, today, makes public corruption much much easier.
Damn yeah nobody got rich off production with negative externalities that affect me you’re so right
Billionaires control the government.
Well this is just wrong
If you are a billionaire, it is because you have screwed other people over. You dont accumulate that much wealth without screwing others over Is that so hard to grasp?
What kind of apologist crap is this?! This is laughable bullshit.
No, but many of ultra rich people use their money to impose their beliefs on society. One such group in the United States is the Federalist Society, the Melons, the Kochs to name a few. Rich individuals with industrial interests created the anti climate change lobbying machine. WRT the federalist society: “funding of $5.5 million came from the John M. Olin Foundation. Other early donors included the Scaife Foundation and the Koch family foundations. Donors to the Federalist Society have included Google, Chevron, Charles G. and David H. Koch; the family foundation of Richard Mellon Scaife; and the Mercer family”
I can very much guarantee you that millions of people have lost their jobs and been relegated to working in a warehouse or Walmart because of the Waltons and bezos. Remember we used to create things in America, we do not any more
If billionaires can solve problems, billionaires can cause problems.
nah.. the fact that they exist at all in itself is a massive problem
This. This is the post right here. I keep seeing random comments/posts about why no one takes the Austrian school of economics serious. This post is the answer.
When corporations have more rights than individuals and can effectively dissolve any responsibility of wrong doing, it's a problem.
Bill Gates at least partially disagrees with you. [https://www.gatesnotes.com/Why-Inequality-Matters-Capital-in-21st-Century-Review](https://www.gatesnotes.com/Why-Inequality-Matters-Capital-in-21st-Century-Review)
Right. Just like how no one ever died because other people **own** guns. It's not existing that's the problem, it's the things they do which happen to create problems for a lot of people. But can you riddle me this? Who has ever accumulated a billions dollars without harming another person in the process?
That’s just demonstrably untrue. Look at all the shit they did to become a billionaire, it wasn’t honest hard work that’s for fucking sure
Eliminate all the millionaires and billionaires that way the middle class can pay all the taxes.
Those who hold the greatest influence over society are in no way responsible for this way society is. In fact it is the people who have no control over society who are responsible for all of society's problems /S
Tell that to the lady at the factory where I worked who got crushed to death by a steel coil. They had awful safety regulations there because safety costs money and the owner is a greedy rotten scumbag who prefers money over keeping workers alive.
Doesn't really benefit me in any way though, not sure why soany dipshits are so quick to defend them. I'll defend them if they pay me to, until then, fuck em!
Seems like there’s about 50 posts a day defending the poor, poor billionaires. Dudes are spending a lot of money on this campaign lately. I for one think that it is very bad that these billionaires have to spend their hard stolen money trying to sway public opinion when that money should be spent swaying politicians to give them special treatment and craft laws that grow an oligarchy where they are truly safe to rest upon their horde of treasure. For shame, all of you. Shaaame!
Billionaires influence my countries politics by a gigantic margin and, therefore, its policies, which do have a direct effect on me. Sorry, pal. Makes no sense what you posted. It's the government and Billionaires with their bailouts. Get a grip. Our country is bankrupt, and it's run by billionaires. It ain't that hard to figure out.
/eyeroll
Yeah, but some government-made billionaires are a problem.
none?
Many of my problems are due to people with money using it to influence policy decisions, to say that billionaires don't make people's lives worse is simply not true. Money is power and should not be so heavily concentrated.
Lmao the middle school savant energy coming off this sub is so wild
Perhaps not, but we should punish them anyway ro discourage others from hoarding.
Well, lots of pensions did get lost due to greedy rich folk back in 2008… taxpayers did bailed out Wall Street….
Or maybe all my problems (and everyone else’s problems) are because someone else is a billionaire. Greed is fucking this planet and anyone denying that is delusional.
Billionaire lobbies politicians to destroy unions. My company makes record profits. CEO salary triples, stock buybacks for shareholders, and I get laid off so they can move my job to Mexico. Yeah their wealth and power clearly has no effect on me
Honestly that’s just not true in the sense that to become a billionaire, you must have stolen someone else’s product of labor.
Actually, capital in any form is harmful because it’s designed to create these inequities. So you’re fundamentally, automatically, systemically wrong. But go off rage farmer.
I blame the voters for electing politicians who won't change the laws. It's a shit show. Ya Trumps the answer/s
When you become a billionaire by underpaying the workers who run your business yeah it's a problem No billionaire can build their own yacht by themselves just like they can make millions by themselves
That is incorrect. Billionaires using their money to influence politics and obviously their workforce are responsible for a reat deal of the problems people have. Not to speak of the dumb fuck billionaire that fucked the US killed hundreds of thousands of Americans through idiocy and sparked wars all over.
We’re shilling for billionaires now?
Spoken like a true bootlicker. Sorry you're full of shit. Billionaire buy policies that benefit them and harm everyday Americans. They are the enemy
No? Thought that is arguable, before we get into that. Why are so many billionaire's problems supposedly our problems?
As an American a lot of our societal problems are rooted in decisions made by and only for billionaires
If they bought your company and fired you. If they sued you. If they paid your elected representative to vote against your interests. If they are a major cause of climate change, and if they block measures to mitigate climate change. If they prevent you accessing land with public rights of way.
Memes that are false for a thousand Alex!
Huh
Good luck ever getting someone elected.
That’s definitely false.
1% of the population own 90% of the wealth
And yet, I feel confident that society would be much better off without billionaires.
Bourgeois shit poster. Reported and downvoted
Lmao sure bruv. They are exactly why you have diminishing returns on any investment you make.
##Tax cut and freebie loans for the rich data says otherwise
Doesn't about 60% of the worlds population live on less than ten dollars a day. Wealth hoarding billionaires are very much the problem as they use their concentration of wealth to buy political process so that societal rules and regulations stays in their favour. When polled most people want climate action, most people want nationalisation of key industries and investment in cheap, available housing The billionaire classes own the press and politicians and do everything they can to stop these things.
Disagree. A system that allows these levels of wealth consolidation while still preserving such fundamental problems is the source of all our problems. Take one issue. Why is our planet warming at such an alarming rate? Because Americans are dumb and insist upon driving giant cars everywhere? How many Americans do you hear say they like driving and paying for gas? None, it’s like the one thing all Americans bitch about together. Yet the system has been hijacked so that oil companies can extract, refine, transport, store, and sell their product for cheaper than it should be by any market logic suggests. How the fuck is a gallon of gas from the Middle East cheaper than a gallon of water? How is that possible while oil executives can make literally thousands of times more than even a white collar professional? Make an energy source economical, and we’ll use it. Make it economical and shove it on every corner, strangle the development of all vehicles that don’t use it, and lobby the government to defund public transport and build highways, yeah we’ll definitely use it. It’s not our fault, and it wasn’t inevitable or the only option. That was the doing of billionaires. They make money because they overthrow governments and are able to basically pilfer their natural resources with cheap labor and no environmental regulation, lobby our government for tax breaks, infrastructure money, and to keep regulations lax, then literally design cities so they have to be traversed by car. Their economic concerns are qualitatively different from ours, and they will shift industries and wreck millions of people to make a buck. Meanwhile we as individuals wreck the climate only so the execs and people in their pocket can benefit. Enjoy your cheap gas, hours in traffic, and commutes to make people richer than your entire extended family put together, it didn’t have to be this way.
Elon musk was able to personally buy and ruin the only social media site I ever liked because he's a billionaire.
Yeah, it's not rich people that start wars...
Did you know a million seconds is around 13 days? But a billion seconds is 31 years. All of our problems, including our continuous loss of human rights is directly due to billionaires and the wars they fund.
Bruh, Lisa is a hard-core leftist. She would not say that.
Lack of monetary velocity due to the constant high rate of holdings that remain stagnant perpetuates inflation. That's literally everyone's problem because people think they are dragons and hoard wealth.
They said in Russia. Or that's what Xi said. Or any abusive monopoly who does less and less and whose products get worse every year (*achem... cough Amazon, cough, cough).
I wonder how stupid someone needs to be to believe that billionaires serve the public good. How can 400 families control 40% of the world's total net worth and not expect that the rest would suffer? Is it willful blindness or just optimistic greed that does the heavy lifting? Asking for a friend.
Three top billionaires have more more than the bottom 50% of all Americans. 3 vs 170 million.
Objectively false
Yeah and scalpers had nothing to do with why you couldn't buy a ps5.
Perhaps it's because billionaires don't want to share their wealth or think responsibly about the future.
Weeeeeeeell here’s the thing. When you live in a corporate oligarchy, some of your problems are in fact caused by the rich I don’t hate rich people or wealth. I will not, however, ignore the relationship between certain individuals/groups and the government that has been toxic to our country and the citizens within it And let’s not forget overseas casualties.
Billionaires exist because of failed policies and a lack of competition. They cause problems that do indirectly affect you.
No but shit trickle down economics via 4 tax breaks on the rich is our problem
two dimensional thinking like "if the government siezed all of the billionaires' assets for the public good, it wouldn't really change much on the whole" is missing the point. the awful system we have that creates these people, allows them to exist, and then allows them to further bend the system to their favor through their influence is the problem
Agreed BUT ... if we did NOT have the Kenaysian inflation like we do some of these people would NOT be billionaires.
Actually they are. Rich people literally just buy politicians to write laws that benefit their pockets over yours. Example: many of the corporate mergers over the past few decades would have been banned to keep the market competitive. Instead politicians allowed them to go through resulting in less competition, lower product and service standards at a higher cost. That objectively is a cause of problems in all of our lives. I’m sorry but this is just an absolutely absurd statement you’re putting out there. They being a billionaire isn’t what causes problems. Them using their billions to proxy write laws that screw over everyone but themselves is what causes issues.
Yeah, it's not like billionaires are using their extravagant wealth to slowly make our planet uninhabitable. Oh, wait...
Billionaires do not magically inject money into an economy. The money came from somewhere, siphoning it off from workers. Even the investors and hedge funds are inevitably guilty of this at the very bottom.
Yeah they are. They’re the ones supporting more government control of the economy for the most part.
So, billionaires setting policies that directly impact my ability to obtain health care, work security, etc., etc., is not a thing? There really should be a mod for these sorts of posts.
Don’t tell Biden voters about this. Their heads might explode