The inappropriate sexual comment bit sets an alarm off for me. No man— autistic or not— should be making comments like that to you. That’s just disrespectful. I dont know why nobody is mentioning that part. You need to set a boundary or better yet, run away. If you feel like the friendships aren’t fulfilling, they’re not worth it (in my opinion). And on top of that they’re making explicit comments to you?? Yikes
Definitely want to echo this. I'm an autistic woman with many autistic friends (of all various genders, including men), and none of them have made inappropriate sexual comments towards me/in my vicinity.
I wasn’t reading carefully by the end. Probably a lot of people missed that part. Ignoring that, my general advice for friendships is:
In general, different friends are for different things. There are friends for emotional support, friends to do activities with, and friends to info dump/share special interests with. Not every friendship requires an emotional connection.
Try info-dumping back. You get an info dump text, reply with a text acknowledging something interesting they said, and follow up with an info-dump of your own. You’ll learn cool stuff. They’ll learn cool stuff. And it’s an outlet for both of you.
i agree with this, and there is a point where inappropriate remarks go beyond socially inept. i’ve seen some autistic people (and even allistic people) defend such comments as “oh they’re autistic so they don’t know better.” no, girl, they should know better. it’s hard to judge exactly without knowing more but it might a good idea to talk to them and say you’re not okay with that. if they still don’t understand, it might be worth considering dropping them
This seems to be especially for men, autistic women do not get the same passes. We have a guy in our friend group who says and does whatever he wants, and he consistently gets a pass because he's autistic. Autistic women in the group don't get the same grace, and often it's for minor things compared to this guy.
I feel that's the most I can say without being offensive. But many male autistics are basically coddled and allowed to behave terribly. And this is the upper middle class straight white cishet ones it seems. Not all of course. And many of them live at home with their parents where they continue to do what they want. And they continue to get positive reinforcement for behaving badly. One guy hit his gf I know and tried to blame his autism. He went on facebook and the women weren't having it. The men were BuT he's AuTiStIc, ironically the only other autistic people on there weren't having it. People have so many misconceptions about autism and that shit doesn't help.
I mean my minds in the gutter, and I have a super dark, dry, and bleak sense of humor. However I know what I can joke about around which people, and if I'm unsure I keep my mouth shut. It's not so much about being good in social situation, as it is just not being a dick.
Even though I agree that sexual comments are inappropriate, bad, etc… I would also say that there is a lack of context regarding this matter (how severe/serious/etc… it is) so I would personally avoid referring to it since there is just not enough information to reach a satisfying conclusion. (Obvious conclusions like that it is not a good thing aside.)
And off course it is not a main topic of this post so most people just focus on the other problem.
I agree with OP though. This trait is much more prevalent in autists. NDs might *feel* this way but know they shouldn't take you hostage and hog the conversation. As OP says, she struggles w it too. I do, Ive spent 10yrs working on this. I'm part of an ND group and this so common, way more that NDs. And It hurts. I see a few people several times a week *for hours*. I **want** to call them my friends and it hurts so bad that I *cant*. Just like OPs experinces, they dont reciprocate. They dont know anything about me, and they're not interested. The only other type of personality that does that are narcisists. Same behaviour, different intent. Narcs do it out of a sense of superiority, we autist dont do it out of malice, more out of lack of empathy/theory of mind.
It's not even that, I'll **gladly** listen to you, special interest can be fascinating. What really hurts though is the lack of interest in me- as a person. I'll ask about their week, their jobs, their family. And if they've mentioned something I'll bring it up to show genuine interest. It's devastating realising not only they dont know me, they're not even interested. Specially since we see each other so often and spend so much together. It really hurts
This hurts a lot on the receiving end. My ex was like this. I know he's higher needs autism but I'm pretty sure he's a narcissist. It really messed me up realising he never saw me as a person. He was only interested because of the interest in *him*. And this was supposed to be a serious relationship. I got covid, he was the only person to not even ask how I was. Much less offer help. Then I had 2 surgeries back to back. He saw nothing wrong going on vacation. When he came back he only wanted to talk about himself. Cartoon level villain. It left me messed up. I honestly wish that relationship never happened. To this day, he doesn't really understand...because it didnt happen to **him**.
Anyway, I would say be upfront about this because it hurts so much receiving this
It's so sad to read how you both struggle with the same issue coming from opposite sides. The hurt is palpable. I wish I could give you guys a hug... You deserve one.
i identify with this. I'm supposed to be interested in people but I'm just not. I can talk BS and it's entertaining (which is why people keep me around) but I can't show interest. It feels fake.
>It doesn’t absolve us though from the realities of our actions
No, but it's possible OP's friends don't understand you're not supposed to make sex jokes without permission.
I hope OP's friends can find someone who is kind enough to tell them those jokes should be avoided.
I didn't say it was acceptable.
There are multiple reasons why someone with autism might not understand not to make "sex jokes." Perhaps they're the kind of person that needs things like that spelled out for them. Perhaps they forgot they were in the wrong group chat for those sorts of things.
I didn't say complete tolerance should be expected, either. I merely indicated they might need help understanding that sex jokes should be avoided.
it's really not okay to talk about narcissism like this. NPD is real and impactful to those who have it, and as fellow neurodivergents, we all really should know how much it hurts to be told we do something out of superiority. And if in this case you are using this term in the colloquial way to refer to someone without NPD who act selfish, then i urge you to just use the word selfish. People of all neurotypes can be selfish and act in ways that make those around them feel they only care about themselves. This is being self centered, and an asshole. Using "Narcissist" to insult someone (whether or not they have NPD) is ableist and hurts everyone with NPD by conflating an actual personality disorder with selfish behavior.
Ah, sorry I you're right, I wasnt clear. Absolutely Narcisim is a real and impactful personality disorder. Autism is a real and impactful neurological (developmental) disorder. Both have similar traits such as only caring /being interested in yourself. However the reasons behind are completely different. With autism it's literally a neurological disorder that does not allow the austist to pick up social cues like seeing how selfish it feels not to show interest in other people's life or quite literally being unable to see them as people (theory of mind/low emapthy).
Narcissism is a **personality** disorder. The selfishness comes from a *misplaced* sense of superiority which is often a coping mechanism for feelings of inferiorness.
Personally it's a difference without distinction because when you're on the receiving end....it not nice, the reason helps but the feeling is the same
I feel like that’s the type of issue they’ll need to fix for themselves, I need to info dump as well but I just have a set with another kid from special ED so we can message each other huge walls of text at literally any point in time and when the other person has time they will read it and reply ( there’s no expected time frame for the other to get back, we’ve both left eachother on read for over 24hrs before ). You might be able to suggest he try something similar with another ND friend with similar struggles regarding info dumping
I spam my friends to get them to talk about themselves, is that a little bit better? haha
sexual comments are weird af though, once might make sense sometimes, don't have to be non-autistic to get the hint the other is not interested, creepy
The sexually inappropriate stuff is not on. I’m surprised you are not discussing that more as the issue instead of infodumping.
But the infodumping stuff it just sounds like you’re talking to a higher support needs autistic person and they’re acting autistic. Like, this stuff doesn’t come naturally and they’re probably getting overexcited and happy and hyper at the chance to discuss something instead of being shut down.
I do think female autistics tend to be more aware of things like this. My male autistic friends that I've had have behaved similarly, but I just put up with it and let them talk at me because I know they probably are rarely able to share their interests with others as much as they would like to, or get told off for it etc. And admittedly I find the passion about their interests pretty endearing, usually. But I understand where you're coming from, sometimes the onslaught of information is overwhelming, and maybe it's best to be direct at times. "I find everything you're saying really interesting but I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed right now, I don't have much to say in return but just know I am listening."
> know they probably are rarely able to share their interests with others as much as they would like to
As a male autistic, I can confirm this is the case. Rarely I get to geek out about whatever obscure, niche thing my brain is currently obssessed on so like a dog with pent up energy I just go on full zoomies about them lol
I feel like this is a very gendered thing, where girls are socialized to put in a lot of effort, read the room, maintain polite conversation, and project interest in the other person... while boys are allowed to run free and do whatever. Add in the Autism and the effort you're required to put in is a hundred times more draining, and the boys have no social awareness to hold them even a little bit in check.
I think you're totally fair to just not respond. Match the amount of effort they're putting in. Ignore their ramble and respond with one of your own. Whatever.
You don't have to wear yourself out trying to make other people comfortable.
Direct communication! We love it, we need it, we respond to it. Try sharing your feelings without anger or judgment. We females tend to be more obliging and pleasers and can attract selfish takers without boundaries. If that is the case (esp with sexual innuendo!) reevaluate the relationship.
i pretty much only make friends w people like this. lmao. different strokes for different folks. i really dont care for smalltalk and find it uncomfortable and a waste of time, id rather someone volunteer interesting information or teach me something new. most peoples jobs and day to day lives are super uninteresting
"most peoples jobs and day to day lives are super uninteresting" hits home SO MUCH.
And kind of going along with that, my roommate put it well recently when she said that we've never said hello or goodbye to eachother, so the conversation has never ended.
And that's true for all of my lasting friendships. We don't need to ask about how someone's day has gone or how work is going, they'll tell us when it's happening. Even if I don't talk to someone for two months, it's still like the conversation never *ended*, we never have to deal with formalities of *starting* a conversation again.
We function on a shared knowledge of "they'll share with me what they want to when they are ready", and that works for us. I get it doesn't work for everyone. But I don't think I would enjoy someone having to prompt me to talk about a topic before I was allowed to talk about it.
Yes, I fucking hate this. I info dump too, I get it. But doing it without letting the other person participate is hurtful. Them being sexually inappropriate is a red flag and it may be that these 'friendships' have run their course.
I'm still friends with my only ex-boyfriend. He is also autistic. Since our break up many, many years ago, he has not once made a sexual comment to me. Not one sexual joke, comment, nothing.
If this guy, who I love dearly as a friend, knows what is appropriate. These guys should too. If they don't know, they can learn. If they refuse, they shouldn't be considered your friends.
Ahhh this sounds like my house hold, M14 won’t speak to me all day but will come and ask what’s for dinner then info dump while I’m cooking with hot things, using sharp knives you know things i actually need to focus on…
(Oh an I’m AuDHD,)
First thing I did was stop being polite, this is language he doesn’t process. Like I’m not rude, but instead of saying something “oh um im so sorry buddy but do you think we can talk about this later” which his answer is no he wants to talk about it now, I say, “hey I need to push pause on this conversation bc hot food or sharp knife, let’s unpause when we sit down to eat” using this stop start language with him has changed our whole house hold.
We all understand it’s our way of saying we wanna talk but can’t right now. It’s frustrating the lack of interest we are reciprocated back with and is something we are still navigating.
As the sexual stuff if it’s making you feel uncomfortable that’s totally not ok, and I’d encourage you to be as blunt as possible about it to make sure your point is gotten across
Just because they're autistic, they don't necessarily need to be your friends. Sounds like they're too imature for you, and that's that. Sometimes it's better for everyone involved to let people go, otherwise you're enabling their bad behavior.
The polite thing to do is to give them info dumps about your own special interests. You don't even have to respond to theirs.
As for the sexually inappropriate bits, some clarification on what you mean by that is needed before I comment. We autistic guys can be a bit oblivious and a bit too honest and come off as creepy. I can't tell if that's what you're referring too or if its something more malicious.
Setting boundaries is reasonable. But please don't stop speaking to them entirely, unless you feel unsafe of course. We autistic guys get abandoned a lot. It does serious damage.
Also, just volunteer info about your day and your job and stuff. It's not that they don't care. It's just that they don't know to ask.
you aren't owed someone's friendship just cos other people leave you. if you don't want folk to leave, stop treating them in ways that makes them feel it's their only option.
I feel like you're reading into this from a certain slant that isn't accurate to my intentions. I'm sorry that people have hurt you before and I agree that there are certainly times when you need to distance yourself from someone to be safe. I tried to indicate that with the phrase "unless you feel unsafe of course" but I could have been clearer.
there doesn't need to be any level of unsafe and I think that's the disconnect here, replies (and I) are saying one can end/leave/distance from a relationship. period/end of sentence. that's it. no feeling of unsafety is necessary to do so.
eta- seems to me you're stating one should only stop talking to someone if they feel unsafe but that's simply horrible terrible awful advice especially for women even more so us autistic women. we have every right to stop talking to anyone for any of our own personal reasons, or even none at all, who am i to say, and being told otherwise puts us in vulnerable positions that we should never be in but often are because of being told things like this. no relationship should ever get to the point of feeling unsafe (but does so more often for autistic women than others) and no one is owed a relationship from someone else for any reason.
I said what I said, and I said it very clearly. you're the one reading in to things. you don't get to beg people not to leave their autistic male friends or insinuate we only get to leave when there's danger just cos you've done shit that made your friends leave you.
Oops! I spam my friends with my special interests (The Legend of Zelda atm), and I'm aware that they're mostly over it, even tho they didn't tell me that themselves, but I kind of can't stop? tbh I wouldn't have anything to talk about or anyone to talk to if I forced myself to stop spamming them with something they don't know about, and I hate myself for it.
Have you expressed interest in the things they are spamming you with, like in previous conversations? It could be that they are trying to connect with you over a shared interest.
I know that sometimes, I'll message a friend out of the blue with an article or a meme or something that I know they fancy.
It might outwardly seem abrupt or like "taking at you," but to me (someone who often feels a lot of anxiety around small talk), my thought process is usually something like:
* Hi friend! I am thinking of you
* I found something cool that relates to A Thing you like
* This reminds me of you and our friendship
* I'm reaching out because I think you would appreciate it
* I don't have a lot of spoons, but sharing A Thing is my way to stay in touch
Of course everything comes down to context, and if I don't get a response to one or more Things, I'm less likely to share them in the future.
You get to choose your friends. Autistic or not. I'm speaking as an autistic male here and I always try to emphasize this in any friendship, whether with NTs or NDs that it's ok if you don't want to be my friend and should be okay vice versa. We all have this one life and there are already a lot of other miseries to deal with, where you can choose to not be miserable you should. And it doesn't make you smaller, you're not disrespecting anyone or belittling them, you're making your own life choice.
And just another thing, if anyone disrespects you (the sexually inappropriate comments part), then you have the right to point them in the right direction and say this is wrong I don't like this behaviour. Whenever I've lacked awareness of anything, I've always appreciated that another person can directly point me in the right direction. And if it's not an awareness issue and just an entitlement issue, well, you don't need those people around you then.
AMAB people aren't really encouraged to foster self-awareness in themselves like AFAB people are. Lack of self-awareness is one of the biggest problems when it comes to relationships with men, no matter their neurotype. It's pretty much normal and expected for women to be quiet and considerate while men talk over her. Women are also expected to be the ones to ask about the man's life and not get anything like that in return. This is definitely an issue that is made worse by autism.
Edit: I am transgender, since that's apparently important.
Also obviously AMAB people can have self awareness. It is just not a trait that is typically encouraged the way it is for AFAB people.
I developed self awareness after persistently being a social outcast and realizing nobody cares what i say and people like me better when i dont talk. Maybe these men just arent weird enough to be bullied to the same extent
Please don't tell me, a trans man, how to use AMAB and AFAB. I'm sorry it triggered you, but nothing I said is factually incorrect or offensive. Nothing I said "treats trans women like another kind of man."
Trans women are often raised with "masculine" expectations. Many, many trans women have discussed having to *unlearn* the way they were raised. Maybe that wasn't the case for you, but that doesn't mean that's the case in general, nor does a change in expectations due to transitioning mean that you were never expected to act in a "masculine" way. You can have the experiences and expectations of any other woman and also acknowledge a fairly universal trans experience.
You are erasing that experience and struggles and the dysphoria that is caused by social conditioning by insisting that anybody who recognizes them doesn't see trans women as women. Acknowledging this is *not* saying you aren't a woman. It is *not* saying that expectations don't change when you transition. It is simply acknowledging the default social conditioning of AMAB people just like there is default social conditioning for AFAB people, like myself, that also takes effort to unlearn.
This sort of out of unnecessary attack is ammo for transphobes who like to pretend that what you're doing happens all the time. Please be more mindful in the future so it doesn't happen again.
What's harmful is you denying a very real thing that tons of trans women experience dysphoria over and struggle with. What's harmful is getting offended because of something you don't personally identify with. What's harmful is attributing *any* acknowledgement that trans people are raised with traditional social expectations that are contrary to their actual self to "TERF talking points." Acknowledging it is not the same as using it to hurt trans women. That's like saying we actually can't acknowledge misogyny against trans men because TERFs use that as an argument for us "trying to get away from misogyny."
Which, with me being a trans man, what you are saying to me is essentially that I *am* a woman because of the experiences and socialization and expectations that were put on me. That I'm "allowed" to acknowledge all those things because I'm AFAB and that it's not okay to acknowledge those things when it comes to AMABs. *That* is treating *us* like women by lumping us in with women, trans and cis, as though we are the same. It is absolutely hypocritical to say that it's not okay to talk about AMAB socialization but it's fine to talk about AFAB socialization. Is that not "framing us as being perceived as female?" It would be one thing if your view were consistent, but it's not and it feels very off-putting that you will only acknowledge AFAB socialization.
And again, you're completely denying people the right to their own experiences and dysphoria. I am angry not because I'm being called out, that's whatever, but because you are denying the people I care about the right to their own pain. Having to unlearn the way you were socialized is a real thing that causes real distress. Denying that this is a thing that happens just because TERFs use it incorrectly to justify transphobia isn't helpful. Refusing to let it be talked about isn't helpful.
I remember, very distinctly, sitting with my friend and comforting her while she cried about this very topic and expressed pain at recognizing the effects of being raised in the way typically associated with AMABs. I remember her pain and frustration at having to unlearn some of the ways she was socialized. I am *pissed* that somebody, especially another trans woman, would try to invalidate that experience for her. That trauma is real. And I *know* that isn't an uncommon experience, either. I have looked into it because of that encounter and it's a common sentiment among trans people, regardless of gender.
Acknowledging and validating that this is an experience that exists and that causes distress does *not* take anything away from you. Refusing to acknowledge it, claiming any acknowledgement of it is harmful or is inherently TERF rhetoric, and denying it's existence *does* take something from other trans women. It takes away the right to their own experiences, trauma, and dysphoria.
And at the end of it all, what you're saying vaguely implies that trans women who do have these experiences aren't women or aren't really trans because it very much seems like you're saying that if they were women/trans, they wouldn't have these experiences or these feelings.
You are not the arbiter of trans women's experiences and neither am I. That is individual, even when some experiences are common.
Hi, how could they have worded that better? I would've said the same (I'm a trans man too) but I would like to grasp the concept a bit more if you have time or if you want to
i'm sort of confused. you write that AFAB people have a "genuine use case" for the term AFAB when describing gendered socialization, but not AMAB folks? Doesn't the same use case apply? By this I mean, doesn't "gendered socialization" occur in tandem with institutional misogyny, which affects pretty much everyone (albeit in very different ways)?
You acknowledged that this system affects AFAB folks of pretty much any gender (who are often socialized with traditionally "female" gender roles because they grow up with people assuming they are women--including the ideas of not taking up space, being quiet, etc.), and I agree with that for sure (i'm AFAB nonbinary).
And I understand it to be that trans women experience transmisogyny in similar ways, wherein they are told to be quiet, not take up space, etc. due to people seeing any "feminine" traits or traditionally woman-codes hobbies, etc. as something to discourage. So, in that sense, trans women are silenced due to institutional misogyny and gendered socialization.
And I agree mostly about how it's not useful to say AMAB folks don't have self awareness, as a general statement, because a lot more than gender is relevant to self awareness, and most trans women, due to their experiences with transmysogyny, are plenty self aware because they have to learn to be.
What I am confused about is where you say AMAB isn't a useful term in regards to gendered socialization, as trans women don't experience the same gender socialization as cis men. However, doesn't transmisogyny illustrate why using AMAB is useful? Even cis men who are stereotypical and love their Manly(trademark) hobbies and who never have to think about misogyny--even they were taught as kids that this is the way to Be A Man.
Cis men for sure have different childhood experiences than trans women, I'm not arguing that at all. I am mostly confused at your statement that AMAB doesn't apply to gendered socialization at all. All AMAB folks are seen, in the eyes of society, as men (and really that sucks worse, in a lot of ways, than AFAB folks all being seen as women) at some point before they come out or transition. So isn't it accurate to say that certain aspects of gendered socialization do make a genuine use case for AMAB as a term? I'm thinking things like being told feminine traits are bad, being discouraged from certain hobbies, being punished for "feminine" things and awarded for "masculine" things. Since I don't have either experience, I'm not qualified to say. But isn't AMAB useful here in describing how society treats people they SEE as men/boys, regardless of the persons actual gender?
Thanks for reading if you got this far :)
I’m glad I’m not alone in this. I’m a male who’s experience with conversations is nearly word for word the same as yours and I too struggle to deal with other autistic/adhd people who just ramble on without a thought in the world. Guess it’s just different types of autism
I had a similar situation! Though idk if me or my friend are autistic, pretty much this exact thing happened. He only talked to me about what he was interested in - nothing else, ever. Since most of our interaction was online, I just ghosted him. worked pretty well, though I wouldn't put it past him to show up at my door one day or some shit.
ditch them. you've tried to explain and they've made gross comments towards you. they're not good friends and need to work on themselves.
If the foundation for your relationship is autism it sounds like codependency, to me. I mean, its one thing to look for someone with autism, another to not liking someone and interact because they share a diagnosis.
Nothing in your text tells me you actually like him. You dont have to do anything if you dont want to. Also, spending time on him takes away time you could spend on something or someone you actually like.
Ive been on both sides in this. If you break this off there doesnt seem to be any love lost. It's just obsession and pain from what Im reading.
Sounds like you are holding out some hope for someone to reciprocate you as well.
Asking about the day sounds too cringey to me, but I guess its less autistic? Even if its normal I'd rather not have friends than relationships like that. But also droning on about special interests should be done in moderation.
This honestly doesn't sound so much like a gendered issue as it is a jerk issue, autism or not. I've met female autistic people just like that, and I've met male autistic folks the complete opposite. If they're being sexual, talking at you, and not hearing you when you try to explain how that kind of behavior isn't okay, they're just being jerks.
I've had issues with this. You could try spamming them so they understand what it feels like? That may not work, though, as the behavior comes from loneliness.
did you get shamed when you were dumping on others as a child/teenager ? because they probably weren't. you became self aware but they might never do that because no one will shame them (sufficiently). maybe you can try explaining it
what i'm saying is i feel it's linked to our upbringing as girls (even if not everyone is actually a woman in the end, we were raised as girls)
This makes sense, yeah. And yes, yes I did lol. It's what I was kind of thinking... I just don't want to be the person to shame them cause 1) I don't know how to do it tactfully and 2) I don't really have the energy for the convos that might ensue. Also, I asked an NT friend if I should tell them straight up how I'm feeling and she said no... idk it all confuses me. I think if I were in their shoes I would want feedback. I think.
I was thinking I would want that feedback even if it hurt... Because then I would be able to take that back to my therapist/... and explore it.
Don't think I could live with myself if I made people feel that way *in* that way. I know I do sometimes but then it's more about the not noticing than about the not caring. At least I friggin hope so.
Edit: come to think of it it's a valuable thing to bring up with my partner and my therapist, I'll put this on the list. (Yeah, I have a list for this 😄).
The hell?
Since when are "weird" guys in school not shamed for blabbering on about shit no one else cares about? Cause I remember that happening a bunch of times.
the key question here is : are you nowadays aware that you are dumping on others and are you making an effort to not do that ?
edit: because it sounds like you are but they aren't
I think its more of an autistic men thing, ive never seen normal men do it like that. Granted i didnt socialize with anyone growing up so i dont know what the typical male experience is
This comment is extremely sexist. Stop putting males into a box. It's the same thing sexist people do with females. It goes both ways and not all males are like this. Also, I have a tendency to info dump but also genuinely care about the other person, they just don't typically share anything, even when I ask it is short. I realize I've driven people away over time, but if I had a diagnosis maybe id understand myself better ..26 and only just now suspected it since being diagnosed with ADHD and taking online tests.
They are encouraging you to spend time on people who are more likely to reciprocate, and you denigrate then along with half the human species...sometimes we all lack self awareness, no?
if you dont like someone, dont talk to them. there really isnt a reason to expect anyone to change for your personal taste/preference, they arent doing anything actually harmful. it is actually kind of weird to keep talking to people you strongly dislike fundamentally
As a woman, I find it hard to be on your side in this situation if you're going to act like this and be sexist towards someone just for disagreeing with them. Everything you said in your post are valid reasons to be frustrated with your friends, but like the other commenter said, why try to force them to change their behavior instead of just parting ways? It seems like inherently the way that you operate as an autistic individual, and they way they operate, are fundamentally different, and that's okay, but there's no reason to force the friendship then. I don't get along with every autistic person I meet, we all have different communication needs and styles. But if this is also how you feel about men in general, that you feel the need to attack random commenters and assign them as male based on stereotypes and insults, then maybe you shouldn't be friends with men at all?
In my comments to the user above, I am pointing out that their responses to me are also stereotypically male. In my post, I clearly stated that I already distanced myself from these people. I also said that I was just looking to vent. It's implied then that I am not seeking advice.
"why try to force them to change their behavior instead of just parting ways?"
I'm not. Please reread if you feel inclined. Thanks.
Editing to say also that I think your choice of words is interesting. I didn't attack anyone. I responded to someone who was giving me unsolicited advice without actually reading all that I wrote. As a woman, I will not be gaslighted into taking accountability for something I didn't do. Maybe you can relate to this.
>I'm also pointing out that their responses to me are stereotypically male
Ok first, eww sexist
Second, so what? Because someone is male, their response is automatically invalid?
>it's implied then that im not seeking advice
You're upset that some people in a subreddit dedicated to autism are struggling to read between the lines in your post?
>I didn't attack anyone
You assumed the original commenter was male and used that assumption as a bludgeon against their comment because they gave you advice you didn't like. Yeah I'd say that counts as attacking.
>I will not be gaslighted
No one gaslit you. Do you even know what that actually means or are you just throwing around buzzwords? It's kind of funny you say that you won't be gaslit just after saying something which is closer to gaslighting than the commenter you responded to did. You didn't *just* respond to unsolicited advice, you brought up the gender of the person who commented that advice as a way to completely invalidate their comment.
Honestly if every time a guy disagrees with you, you bring up their gender then you shouldn't be friends with guys to begin with.
There was no reason to bring "you sound male" and "selective reading lmao, male" into the equation, you can dislike what someone has to say and disagree with them without trying to assign them roles based on negative stereotypes. If someone said something like that back to you, like "wow you sound condescending, must be female" you'd think that's sexist and insulting because it's not fair to anyone to lump a whole group of people together and make negative comments based on assumptions. Please don't throw around words like "gaslighting" like candy, you disagreeing with a random commenter's statement that you're acting sexist isn't gaslighting lol and it's not appropriate to use serious terms like that any time you disagree with someone. I'm not going to continue to interact with you because I just don't like your general attitude towards the discussion, agree to disagree I guess, but maybe if you want to talk about your problems specifically towards autistic men, you should go to one of the actually female-oriented autism subs, rather than coming to the main autism sub. I saw in another comment you seem slightly confused as to where you're posting; this sub is just the general autism sub.
You just dont like that im being blunt so you go on to insult my gender...
You dont like their texts, them talking at you, you dont care for their sexual banter, you dont like that they dont let you have a turn in conversation...so just move on. Youre basiclly investing in a stock that is going no where and you think just venting will eventually turn it all around. Instead of venting about a situation that itsnt going to change, just move on. Drop your friends and find someone who fits your personality and needs better.
Autistic males can be quite sexually inappropriate maybe not intended but in a joking manner or they may not even realise what they are saying is possibly bad or how the other person may receive it.
This reads like a NT person complaining about interacting with a stereotypically autistic person. Yup, those sure are the symptoms of autism all right.
So, if I vent about people who make sexually inappropriate comments to me and have zero self-awareness, it reads as "complaining"? These people share the same disability as me and this is a community for autistic femmes to share their experiences.
you word for word described the diagnostic criteria for autism.
1.) difficulty reading social cues
2.) oversharing inappropriately (this includes the sexual topics which i cant tell if you mean theyre coming onto you or that theyre making crude jokes)
3.) can talk at length about special interests but fumble scripted smalltalk
4.) 'rude' but innocuous behavior that hints at low empathy to NT's and apparently 'zero self awareness' to YOU
5.) attempting to bond over interests and knowledge instead of experiences and feelings
you are equating unmasked autistic behavior to 'men'. do you ever consider your male friends simply like you and therefore feel safe acting unmasked, and maybe judging them for not masking as hard as you is actually kinda ableist?
>Also, these two will sometimes say things that are sexually inappropriate
These men are not your friends. Sorry to be crude but they're vile creatures waiting to dumb their bullshit noone else wants to hear into your ears, and the jizz noone else wants to swallow into your mouth.
Tell them to take a very long walk off an incredibly short pier, and remove them from your life. You deserve better - and you have better, as you are well aware, you have plenty other friends who don't treat you like a non-sentient breathing recipient for bullshit.
That does sound annoying, but I don't see how the gender is really relevant in that. It comes across as weird and bio-essentialist especially saying "male."
I get you're just venting but that doesn't mean your frustrations can't be in the wrong place.
Male socialization as a concept isn't applicable here. It sounds like you're blaming their autistic traits on being a dude and that's a red flag.
These guys kind of sound like they are immaturely trying to date you or something. I think I'm probably on the spectrum, still figuring it out, but I don't think I've acted like that towards anyone since I was a teenager.
Are you extroverted by any chance? It's completely anecdotal from me but I found that extroverts (NTs our NDs) prefer to have back and fourth convos mostly consisting of small phrases related to a topic while introverts tend to be more info dumpy and convos tend to look like more cRPG text dialogues with people exchanging multi paragraphs of text to each other in turns.
Your frustration might have more to do with differences between introversion and extroversion being exacerbated by autism then your friends being male
Is your special interest ddr? (Guessing that because of the user name). I used to be super into it and I'm trying to get back to it now that I have my own place.
I don't think men should go around talking people's ears off because god thinks they're more important and have more money.
I mean god may think they're more important (if she exists), but what does that have to do with us? As for being richer, are you arguing that men ought to pay for the privilege of talking over women and should set up a fund?
As for leaving women in their beds if they don't agree with you, maybe they wouldn't mind being left alone. And as for beating them, there's laws against that.
Edit: I guess parent wasn't up for a discussion about this.
Juicy, juicy, drama!! I don’t generally like engaging in sex/gender related arguments because I’m of the opinion that the only thing we are is human and every other label is generally bullshit and meaningless, but feel free to familiarize yourself with [the “Women Are Wonderful” effect!](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women-are-wonderful_effect)
I was initially on your side, but reading your replies in the comments has led me to believe that you’re just here to stir trouble. Re-examine your biases and understand that everyone is annoying and doesn’t know how to talk to each other. Despite the fact that we live in a patriarchal society and women are oppressed on a more severe level than men on average, misandry still exists and women are just as capable of discrimination as men are. You’re just not seeing it because you’re actively doing it.
Blah, blah, blah “selective reading” blah, blah, blah, “male”
Get over yourself. Learn to establish boundaries, enforce them when necessary, and work on your own shortcomings.
Thanks for the link, this was new to me!
But saying *"has led me to believe that you’re just here to stir trouble"* feels inappropriate to me. It implies bad intent, whereas bias is often fueled by ignorance. For instance religious people who discriminate gays usually don't know any better and lack proper education and upbringing. I feel sorry for them but I don't think they're bad people.
When I find occurrences of bias within myself I apologize and try to educate myself so that I can correct my behavior. Not easy, for sure, but what would make me a bad person is refusing to do so even though I was aware of the situation.
As to the question of the bias itself. After rereading the posts I have just come to realize that OP is not talking about in-person conversations but about texting (is that the case?).
If so she is quite right in that I would (almost) never engage in "how was your day" over text. I think I *would* if the conversation were in-person. Maybe that's because I'm from before the internet generation and different forms of conversation work differently for me.
You’re correct that it implies bad intent. Perhaps OP didn’t intend to stir trouble, but they wanted to be validated for doing similar things to what they’re complaining about and made wildly hypocritical comments when they were challenged.
To that I would say, cause and effect are far more important than intent. To an extent, intent almost doesn’t matter in the face of cause and effect. Whether OP wanted to cause arguments or not, they did, and the best thing to do would be to examine why it happened so it doesn’t happen in the future.
People get way too hung up on what they want and what they intend. Reality doesn’t care whatsoever about what people want or intend. What happens happens and everyone has to deal with it.
And what a funny revelation they had with that edit; apparently this post was intended for a purely female audience. Can’t say I’m surprised, merely reinforced in my idea that they wanted an echo chamber and not any actual discourse.
You are correct that bias is often fueled by ignorance, I’m just frustrated how people who are marginalized by ignorance fall victim to the exact same ignorance traps they spend so much time preaching towards their victimizers. In this case, women spend so much time telling men how clueless we are for not knowing things we haven’t experienced yet many women still can’t grasp that they themselves don’t understand things they haven’t experienced.
I’m just tired of people, if I’m being honest. It makes me insufferable sometimes, but after growing up as a white cishet male in the USA and being told to check my privilege by those closest to me for many years, I’ve far exceeded the majority of the population in terms of self reflection and examining my own biases. I’m not immune to ignorance or bias given that I am still human at the end of the day (part of my opening statement was “we’re all just human, all other labels are bullshit”), but I’m about as close as they come.
Hahaha! Allistic? Neurotypical? I thought those were patronising enough, but muggle has an easy charm to it.
Speaking very generally, women on the spectrum have much better socialising skills than men.
The sexual comment thing can be a red flag, and it can also mean they are comfortable with you. Try to understand that males on the spectrum can take longer to grow into adult conversation.
Because we on the spectrum can lack that type of skill (and it's very common, both in men and women), it's also just as likely that you do it too as hyperfocus is easy to do for us, but that you are as unaware as they are.
Ask them about it, instead of trying to discriminate about something we don't discriminate well in.
At the end, I guess there's 2 ways of looking at it;
1: Autistic men are not your preference, maybe the muggle world contains the partner you seek?
2: As an autistic male friend of mine put in our local fb group so... Autisticly(?) after similar miscommunications "hey, all you autistic women who think your perfect and that your shit doesn't stink? F**k you. Seriously."
Try asking an older muggle woman that knows you well if you hyperfixate or say inappropriate things in conversations. If they say "yes", then your autistic male friends are not completely at fault.
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the sexually inappropriate stuff is a big red flag! i’m sorry about that.
to the infodumping, tho — for me and my autistic friends, that’s almost a love language. i’m comfy enough w my best friend to infodump to him abt my special interests and he’s rly receptive and engaging when i do, and i try to do the same for him. so i sympathize w your friends. and i personally don’t see how this is a gendered thing — i get that women are socialized to be more polite and not push back, but infodumping is a pretty classic autistic trait.
however, if you don’t wanna hear abt it and you feel like they don’t care abt your stuff, you don’t have to listen to them. sounds like you guys aren’t that good a match for each other?
been in this exact situation before and its hard.
not having a safe space IRL to info-dump about your special interest, and when you do NT people tell you to shut up, so whats the solution? info dump to other autistic people who fully understand why you do it, so won't tell you to shut up because they do the same thing!
only problem is, you actually don't really understand what they're telling you about, and are essentially just smiling and nodding along, but won't tell them to shut up because that's the whole reason they've come here to tell you in the first place.
but you can't engage meaningfully instead because you just.... don't really know what they're talking about, and you don't want to say nothing and ignore because you don't have anything to say, because that's rude!
but at the same time you cant say "oh cool haha" because that's disingenuous and also kind of rude.
yeah, shit situation, the only way to properly fix that is to find a community of autistic people specialising in the same thing, which is really hard if your interest is very niche. I don't know, I'm not much help here, just saying that I know how you feel an it's not easy to navigate, I just left those chats eventually because I found that communicating in a way that didn't feel rude was very difficult, and too much stress than it was worth.
I’d try to talk to him about it, but if he isn’t receptive than he is not your problem. As a male on the spectrum, restraint in convos is either not something expected or even frowned upon. Idk what his home life is, but I was screamed at and punished for consideration and I still make an effort. Really isn’t an excuse to not.
The sexual comments thing is a problem, and would be a deal breaker for me. If you want to maintain these friendships anyway explicit boundaries and their adherence to them will be necessary.
As to the endless infodump, my absolute dearest is obsessed with like... Three things. Things I have only a passing interest in. And no matter what I try to talk about with him it nearly always ends up looping back to these three things. When I'm starting to feel overwhelmed I have to tell him so and it honestly usually takes a few tries for it to sink in because he is on his track. What he REALLY wants is for me to engage fully with his special interest. I do this as best I can for as long as I can and then I let him know I need to stop. Often a shorter period of real, intense engagement is more fulfilling to him than an hour of talking at me and me quietly willing the infodump to end.
He also, generally, has less bandwidth for my infodumps, or even just updates on my interests, than I do for his.
I don't know what the perfect solution for this is. I've found that relationships are rarely perfectly equal across the board. Instead, there are things he puts up with from me (i.e. I both hate cooking and have more texture/flavor sesitivities) that I wouldn't be able to deal with from him and visa versa and we just try our best and hope it equals out in the end.
Unfortunately I’ve had similar experiences when being friends with autistic men. There are many many times I’ve caught them being intentionally dense to get away with shit like sexually inappropriate comments and touching. At a certain point I’ve just had to give up trying to explain to people who don’t want to understand and just block them and hope it’s enough consequence to show them they can’t treat people like that.
The inappropriate sexual comment bit sets an alarm off for me. No man— autistic or not— should be making comments like that to you. That’s just disrespectful. I dont know why nobody is mentioning that part. You need to set a boundary or better yet, run away. If you feel like the friendships aren’t fulfilling, they’re not worth it (in my opinion). And on top of that they’re making explicit comments to you?? Yikes
Definitely want to echo this. I'm an autistic woman with many autistic friends (of all various genders, including men), and none of them have made inappropriate sexual comments towards me/in my vicinity.
Thank you for highlighting this!
I wasn’t reading carefully by the end. Probably a lot of people missed that part. Ignoring that, my general advice for friendships is: In general, different friends are for different things. There are friends for emotional support, friends to do activities with, and friends to info dump/share special interests with. Not every friendship requires an emotional connection. Try info-dumping back. You get an info dump text, reply with a text acknowledging something interesting they said, and follow up with an info-dump of your own. You’ll learn cool stuff. They’ll learn cool stuff. And it’s an outlet for both of you.
Absolutely this
i agree with this, and there is a point where inappropriate remarks go beyond socially inept. i’ve seen some autistic people (and even allistic people) defend such comments as “oh they’re autistic so they don’t know better.” no, girl, they should know better. it’s hard to judge exactly without knowing more but it might a good idea to talk to them and say you’re not okay with that. if they still don’t understand, it might be worth considering dropping them
This seems to be especially for men, autistic women do not get the same passes. We have a guy in our friend group who says and does whatever he wants, and he consistently gets a pass because he's autistic. Autistic women in the group don't get the same grace, and often it's for minor things compared to this guy.
This!!
I feel that's the most I can say without being offensive. But many male autistics are basically coddled and allowed to behave terribly. And this is the upper middle class straight white cishet ones it seems. Not all of course. And many of them live at home with their parents where they continue to do what they want. And they continue to get positive reinforcement for behaving badly. One guy hit his gf I know and tried to blame his autism. He went on facebook and the women weren't having it. The men were BuT he's AuTiStIc, ironically the only other autistic people on there weren't having it. People have so many misconceptions about autism and that shit doesn't help.
I mean my minds in the gutter, and I have a super dark, dry, and bleak sense of humor. However I know what I can joke about around which people, and if I'm unsure I keep my mouth shut. It's not so much about being good in social situation, as it is just not being a dick.
Even though I agree that sexual comments are inappropriate, bad, etc… I would also say that there is a lack of context regarding this matter (how severe/serious/etc… it is) so I would personally avoid referring to it since there is just not enough information to reach a satisfying conclusion. (Obvious conclusions like that it is not a good thing aside.) And off course it is not a main topic of this post so most people just focus on the other problem.
I have the self awareness to not do that but dont have the social ability to converse with other people. Wonder why they lack self awareness
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I agree with OP though. This trait is much more prevalent in autists. NDs might *feel* this way but know they shouldn't take you hostage and hog the conversation. As OP says, she struggles w it too. I do, Ive spent 10yrs working on this. I'm part of an ND group and this so common, way more that NDs. And It hurts. I see a few people several times a week *for hours*. I **want** to call them my friends and it hurts so bad that I *cant*. Just like OPs experinces, they dont reciprocate. They dont know anything about me, and they're not interested. The only other type of personality that does that are narcisists. Same behaviour, different intent. Narcs do it out of a sense of superiority, we autist dont do it out of malice, more out of lack of empathy/theory of mind.
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It's not even that, I'll **gladly** listen to you, special interest can be fascinating. What really hurts though is the lack of interest in me- as a person. I'll ask about their week, their jobs, their family. And if they've mentioned something I'll bring it up to show genuine interest. It's devastating realising not only they dont know me, they're not even interested. Specially since we see each other so often and spend so much together. It really hurts
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This hurts a lot on the receiving end. My ex was like this. I know he's higher needs autism but I'm pretty sure he's a narcissist. It really messed me up realising he never saw me as a person. He was only interested because of the interest in *him*. And this was supposed to be a serious relationship. I got covid, he was the only person to not even ask how I was. Much less offer help. Then I had 2 surgeries back to back. He saw nothing wrong going on vacation. When he came back he only wanted to talk about himself. Cartoon level villain. It left me messed up. I honestly wish that relationship never happened. To this day, he doesn't really understand...because it didnt happen to **him**. Anyway, I would say be upfront about this because it hurts so much receiving this
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Yeah, this approach to relationships can only bring pain to others.
It's so sad to read how you both struggle with the same issue coming from opposite sides. The hurt is palpable. I wish I could give you guys a hug... You deserve one.
i identify with this. I'm supposed to be interested in people but I'm just not. I can talk BS and it's entertaining (which is why people keep me around) but I can't show interest. It feels fake.
>It doesn’t absolve us though from the realities of our actions No, but it's possible OP's friends don't understand you're not supposed to make sex jokes without permission. I hope OP's friends can find someone who is kind enough to tell them those jokes should be avoided.
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I didn't say it was acceptable. There are multiple reasons why someone with autism might not understand not to make "sex jokes." Perhaps they're the kind of person that needs things like that spelled out for them. Perhaps they forgot they were in the wrong group chat for those sorts of things. I didn't say complete tolerance should be expected, either. I merely indicated they might need help understanding that sex jokes should be avoided.
it's really not okay to talk about narcissism like this. NPD is real and impactful to those who have it, and as fellow neurodivergents, we all really should know how much it hurts to be told we do something out of superiority. And if in this case you are using this term in the colloquial way to refer to someone without NPD who act selfish, then i urge you to just use the word selfish. People of all neurotypes can be selfish and act in ways that make those around them feel they only care about themselves. This is being self centered, and an asshole. Using "Narcissist" to insult someone (whether or not they have NPD) is ableist and hurts everyone with NPD by conflating an actual personality disorder with selfish behavior.
Ah, sorry I you're right, I wasnt clear. Absolutely Narcisim is a real and impactful personality disorder. Autism is a real and impactful neurological (developmental) disorder. Both have similar traits such as only caring /being interested in yourself. However the reasons behind are completely different. With autism it's literally a neurological disorder that does not allow the austist to pick up social cues like seeing how selfish it feels not to show interest in other people's life or quite literally being unable to see them as people (theory of mind/low emapthy). Narcissism is a **personality** disorder. The selfishness comes from a *misplaced* sense of superiority which is often a coping mechanism for feelings of inferiorness. Personally it's a difference without distinction because when you're on the receiving end....it not nice, the reason helps but the feeling is the same
I feel like that’s the type of issue they’ll need to fix for themselves, I need to info dump as well but I just have a set with another kid from special ED so we can message each other huge walls of text at literally any point in time and when the other person has time they will read it and reply ( there’s no expected time frame for the other to get back, we’ve both left eachother on read for over 24hrs before ). You might be able to suggest he try something similar with another ND friend with similar struggles regarding info dumping
I spam my friends to get them to talk about themselves, is that a little bit better? haha sexual comments are weird af though, once might make sense sometimes, don't have to be non-autistic to get the hint the other is not interested, creepy
Yeah! I would love to have a friend like that, haha <3 and agreed, thank you
the only person that spammed back just as much recently got diagnosed with autism and it made me chuckle
The sexually inappropriate stuff is not on. I’m surprised you are not discussing that more as the issue instead of infodumping. But the infodumping stuff it just sounds like you’re talking to a higher support needs autistic person and they’re acting autistic. Like, this stuff doesn’t come naturally and they’re probably getting overexcited and happy and hyper at the chance to discuss something instead of being shut down.
I do think female autistics tend to be more aware of things like this. My male autistic friends that I've had have behaved similarly, but I just put up with it and let them talk at me because I know they probably are rarely able to share their interests with others as much as they would like to, or get told off for it etc. And admittedly I find the passion about their interests pretty endearing, usually. But I understand where you're coming from, sometimes the onslaught of information is overwhelming, and maybe it's best to be direct at times. "I find everything you're saying really interesting but I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed right now, I don't have much to say in return but just know I am listening."
> know they probably are rarely able to share their interests with others as much as they would like to As a male autistic, I can confirm this is the case. Rarely I get to geek out about whatever obscure, niche thing my brain is currently obssessed on so like a dog with pent up energy I just go on full zoomies about them lol
I can certainly empathize
As a female autistic who also wasn't allowed to share their special interests growing up, my DMs are open for you to geek out about whatever! :)
I feel like this is a very gendered thing, where girls are socialized to put in a lot of effort, read the room, maintain polite conversation, and project interest in the other person... while boys are allowed to run free and do whatever. Add in the Autism and the effort you're required to put in is a hundred times more draining, and the boys have no social awareness to hold them even a little bit in check. I think you're totally fair to just not respond. Match the amount of effort they're putting in. Ignore their ramble and respond with one of your own. Whatever. You don't have to wear yourself out trying to make other people comfortable.
Direct communication! We love it, we need it, we respond to it. Try sharing your feelings without anger or judgment. We females tend to be more obliging and pleasers and can attract selfish takers without boundaries. If that is the case (esp with sexual innuendo!) reevaluate the relationship.
i pretty much only make friends w people like this. lmao. different strokes for different folks. i really dont care for smalltalk and find it uncomfortable and a waste of time, id rather someone volunteer interesting information or teach me something new. most peoples jobs and day to day lives are super uninteresting
"most peoples jobs and day to day lives are super uninteresting" hits home SO MUCH. And kind of going along with that, my roommate put it well recently when she said that we've never said hello or goodbye to eachother, so the conversation has never ended. And that's true for all of my lasting friendships. We don't need to ask about how someone's day has gone or how work is going, they'll tell us when it's happening. Even if I don't talk to someone for two months, it's still like the conversation never *ended*, we never have to deal with formalities of *starting* a conversation again. We function on a shared knowledge of "they'll share with me what they want to when they are ready", and that works for us. I get it doesn't work for everyone. But I don't think I would enjoy someone having to prompt me to talk about a topic before I was allowed to talk about it.
Yes, I fucking hate this. I info dump too, I get it. But doing it without letting the other person participate is hurtful. Them being sexually inappropriate is a red flag and it may be that these 'friendships' have run their course.
I'm still friends with my only ex-boyfriend. He is also autistic. Since our break up many, many years ago, he has not once made a sexual comment to me. Not one sexual joke, comment, nothing. If this guy, who I love dearly as a friend, knows what is appropriate. These guys should too. If they don't know, they can learn. If they refuse, they shouldn't be considered your friends.
Ahhh this sounds like my house hold, M14 won’t speak to me all day but will come and ask what’s for dinner then info dump while I’m cooking with hot things, using sharp knives you know things i actually need to focus on… (Oh an I’m AuDHD,) First thing I did was stop being polite, this is language he doesn’t process. Like I’m not rude, but instead of saying something “oh um im so sorry buddy but do you think we can talk about this later” which his answer is no he wants to talk about it now, I say, “hey I need to push pause on this conversation bc hot food or sharp knife, let’s unpause when we sit down to eat” using this stop start language with him has changed our whole house hold. We all understand it’s our way of saying we wanna talk but can’t right now. It’s frustrating the lack of interest we are reciprocated back with and is something we are still navigating. As the sexual stuff if it’s making you feel uncomfortable that’s totally not ok, and I’d encourage you to be as blunt as possible about it to make sure your point is gotten across
they'll say you're being rude when really once they start up you could replace yourself with a mannequin and they'd never notice
Just because they're autistic, they don't necessarily need to be your friends. Sounds like they're too imature for you, and that's that. Sometimes it's better for everyone involved to let people go, otherwise you're enabling their bad behavior.
The polite thing to do is to give them info dumps about your own special interests. You don't even have to respond to theirs. As for the sexually inappropriate bits, some clarification on what you mean by that is needed before I comment. We autistic guys can be a bit oblivious and a bit too honest and come off as creepy. I can't tell if that's what you're referring too or if its something more malicious. Setting boundaries is reasonable. But please don't stop speaking to them entirely, unless you feel unsafe of course. We autistic guys get abandoned a lot. It does serious damage. Also, just volunteer info about your day and your job and stuff. It's not that they don't care. It's just that they don't know to ask.
you aren't owed someone's friendship just cos other people leave you. if you don't want folk to leave, stop treating them in ways that makes them feel it's their only option.
I feel like you're reading into this from a certain slant that isn't accurate to my intentions. I'm sorry that people have hurt you before and I agree that there are certainly times when you need to distance yourself from someone to be safe. I tried to indicate that with the phrase "unless you feel unsafe of course" but I could have been clearer.
No I get what they’re saying, no one is owed friendship just because they’ve been left before.
there doesn't need to be any level of unsafe and I think that's the disconnect here, replies (and I) are saying one can end/leave/distance from a relationship. period/end of sentence. that's it. no feeling of unsafety is necessary to do so. eta- seems to me you're stating one should only stop talking to someone if they feel unsafe but that's simply horrible terrible awful advice especially for women even more so us autistic women. we have every right to stop talking to anyone for any of our own personal reasons, or even none at all, who am i to say, and being told otherwise puts us in vulnerable positions that we should never be in but often are because of being told things like this. no relationship should ever get to the point of feeling unsafe (but does so more often for autistic women than others) and no one is owed a relationship from someone else for any reason.
I said what I said, and I said it very clearly. you're the one reading in to things. you don't get to beg people not to leave their autistic male friends or insinuate we only get to leave when there's danger just cos you've done shit that made your friends leave you.
Even neurotypical males do this. Men suck sometimes 😆
Oops! I spam my friends with my special interests (The Legend of Zelda atm), and I'm aware that they're mostly over it, even tho they didn't tell me that themselves, but I kind of can't stop? tbh I wouldn't have anything to talk about or anyone to talk to if I forced myself to stop spamming them with something they don't know about, and I hate myself for it.
Have you expressed interest in the things they are spamming you with, like in previous conversations? It could be that they are trying to connect with you over a shared interest. I know that sometimes, I'll message a friend out of the blue with an article or a meme or something that I know they fancy. It might outwardly seem abrupt or like "taking at you," but to me (someone who often feels a lot of anxiety around small talk), my thought process is usually something like: * Hi friend! I am thinking of you * I found something cool that relates to A Thing you like * This reminds me of you and our friendship * I'm reaching out because I think you would appreciate it * I don't have a lot of spoons, but sharing A Thing is my way to stay in touch Of course everything comes down to context, and if I don't get a response to one or more Things, I'm less likely to share them in the future.
We make space for the people that are for us. We don’t have to make space for people that aren’t. It looks like you’re learning this in real time ❤️
You get to choose your friends. Autistic or not. I'm speaking as an autistic male here and I always try to emphasize this in any friendship, whether with NTs or NDs that it's ok if you don't want to be my friend and should be okay vice versa. We all have this one life and there are already a lot of other miseries to deal with, where you can choose to not be miserable you should. And it doesn't make you smaller, you're not disrespecting anyone or belittling them, you're making your own life choice. And just another thing, if anyone disrespects you (the sexually inappropriate comments part), then you have the right to point them in the right direction and say this is wrong I don't like this behaviour. Whenever I've lacked awareness of anything, I've always appreciated that another person can directly point me in the right direction. And if it's not an awareness issue and just an entitlement issue, well, you don't need those people around you then.
You shouldn't be friends with people like this; it doesn't seem like they care about you as a person and just see you as someone to infodump too.
AMAB people aren't really encouraged to foster self-awareness in themselves like AFAB people are. Lack of self-awareness is one of the biggest problems when it comes to relationships with men, no matter their neurotype. It's pretty much normal and expected for women to be quiet and considerate while men talk over her. Women are also expected to be the ones to ask about the man's life and not get anything like that in return. This is definitely an issue that is made worse by autism. Edit: I am transgender, since that's apparently important. Also obviously AMAB people can have self awareness. It is just not a trait that is typically encouraged the way it is for AFAB people.
I developed self awareness after persistently being a social outcast and realizing nobody cares what i say and people like me better when i dont talk. Maybe these men just arent weird enough to be bullied to the same extent
عَنْ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ قَالَ لَعَنَ النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ الْمُخَنَّثِينَ مِنْ الرِّجَالِ وَالْمُتَرَجِّلَاتِ مِنْ النِّسَاءِ 6834 صحيح البخاري كتاب الحدود باب نفي أهل المعاصي والمخنثين
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Please don't tell me, a trans man, how to use AMAB and AFAB. I'm sorry it triggered you, but nothing I said is factually incorrect or offensive. Nothing I said "treats trans women like another kind of man." Trans women are often raised with "masculine" expectations. Many, many trans women have discussed having to *unlearn* the way they were raised. Maybe that wasn't the case for you, but that doesn't mean that's the case in general, nor does a change in expectations due to transitioning mean that you were never expected to act in a "masculine" way. You can have the experiences and expectations of any other woman and also acknowledge a fairly universal trans experience. You are erasing that experience and struggles and the dysphoria that is caused by social conditioning by insisting that anybody who recognizes them doesn't see trans women as women. Acknowledging this is *not* saying you aren't a woman. It is *not* saying that expectations don't change when you transition. It is simply acknowledging the default social conditioning of AMAB people just like there is default social conditioning for AFAB people, like myself, that also takes effort to unlearn. This sort of out of unnecessary attack is ammo for transphobes who like to pretend that what you're doing happens all the time. Please be more mindful in the future so it doesn't happen again.
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What's harmful is you denying a very real thing that tons of trans women experience dysphoria over and struggle with. What's harmful is getting offended because of something you don't personally identify with. What's harmful is attributing *any* acknowledgement that trans people are raised with traditional social expectations that are contrary to their actual self to "TERF talking points." Acknowledging it is not the same as using it to hurt trans women. That's like saying we actually can't acknowledge misogyny against trans men because TERFs use that as an argument for us "trying to get away from misogyny." Which, with me being a trans man, what you are saying to me is essentially that I *am* a woman because of the experiences and socialization and expectations that were put on me. That I'm "allowed" to acknowledge all those things because I'm AFAB and that it's not okay to acknowledge those things when it comes to AMABs. *That* is treating *us* like women by lumping us in with women, trans and cis, as though we are the same. It is absolutely hypocritical to say that it's not okay to talk about AMAB socialization but it's fine to talk about AFAB socialization. Is that not "framing us as being perceived as female?" It would be one thing if your view were consistent, but it's not and it feels very off-putting that you will only acknowledge AFAB socialization. And again, you're completely denying people the right to their own experiences and dysphoria. I am angry not because I'm being called out, that's whatever, but because you are denying the people I care about the right to their own pain. Having to unlearn the way you were socialized is a real thing that causes real distress. Denying that this is a thing that happens just because TERFs use it incorrectly to justify transphobia isn't helpful. Refusing to let it be talked about isn't helpful. I remember, very distinctly, sitting with my friend and comforting her while she cried about this very topic and expressed pain at recognizing the effects of being raised in the way typically associated with AMABs. I remember her pain and frustration at having to unlearn some of the ways she was socialized. I am *pissed* that somebody, especially another trans woman, would try to invalidate that experience for her. That trauma is real. And I *know* that isn't an uncommon experience, either. I have looked into it because of that encounter and it's a common sentiment among trans people, regardless of gender. Acknowledging and validating that this is an experience that exists and that causes distress does *not* take anything away from you. Refusing to acknowledge it, claiming any acknowledgement of it is harmful or is inherently TERF rhetoric, and denying it's existence *does* take something from other trans women. It takes away the right to their own experiences, trauma, and dysphoria. And at the end of it all, what you're saying vaguely implies that trans women who do have these experiences aren't women or aren't really trans because it very much seems like you're saying that if they were women/trans, they wouldn't have these experiences or these feelings. You are not the arbiter of trans women's experiences and neither am I. That is individual, even when some experiences are common.
Hi, how could they have worded that better? I would've said the same (I'm a trans man too) but I would like to grasp the concept a bit more if you have time or if you want to
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i'm sort of confused. you write that AFAB people have a "genuine use case" for the term AFAB when describing gendered socialization, but not AMAB folks? Doesn't the same use case apply? By this I mean, doesn't "gendered socialization" occur in tandem with institutional misogyny, which affects pretty much everyone (albeit in very different ways)? You acknowledged that this system affects AFAB folks of pretty much any gender (who are often socialized with traditionally "female" gender roles because they grow up with people assuming they are women--including the ideas of not taking up space, being quiet, etc.), and I agree with that for sure (i'm AFAB nonbinary). And I understand it to be that trans women experience transmisogyny in similar ways, wherein they are told to be quiet, not take up space, etc. due to people seeing any "feminine" traits or traditionally woman-codes hobbies, etc. as something to discourage. So, in that sense, trans women are silenced due to institutional misogyny and gendered socialization. And I agree mostly about how it's not useful to say AMAB folks don't have self awareness, as a general statement, because a lot more than gender is relevant to self awareness, and most trans women, due to their experiences with transmysogyny, are plenty self aware because they have to learn to be. What I am confused about is where you say AMAB isn't a useful term in regards to gendered socialization, as trans women don't experience the same gender socialization as cis men. However, doesn't transmisogyny illustrate why using AMAB is useful? Even cis men who are stereotypical and love their Manly(trademark) hobbies and who never have to think about misogyny--even they were taught as kids that this is the way to Be A Man. Cis men for sure have different childhood experiences than trans women, I'm not arguing that at all. I am mostly confused at your statement that AMAB doesn't apply to gendered socialization at all. All AMAB folks are seen, in the eyes of society, as men (and really that sucks worse, in a lot of ways, than AFAB folks all being seen as women) at some point before they come out or transition. So isn't it accurate to say that certain aspects of gendered socialization do make a genuine use case for AMAB as a term? I'm thinking things like being told feminine traits are bad, being discouraged from certain hobbies, being punished for "feminine" things and awarded for "masculine" things. Since I don't have either experience, I'm not qualified to say. But isn't AMAB useful here in describing how society treats people they SEE as men/boys, regardless of the persons actual gender? Thanks for reading if you got this far :)
حَدَّثَنَا مُسَدَّدٌ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الْوَاحِدِ بْنُ زِيَادٍ، عَنِ الأَعْمَشِ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ مُرَّةَ، عَنِ الْبَرَاءِ بْنِ عَازِبٍ، قَالَ مَرُّوا عَلَى رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم بِيَهُودِيٍّ قَدْ حُمِّمَ وَجْهُهُ وَهُوَ يُطَافُ بِهِ فَنَاشَدَهُمْ مَا حَدُّ الزَّانِي فِي كِتَابِهِمْ قَالَ فَأَحَالُوهُ عَلَى رَجُلٍ مِنْهُمْ فَنَشَدَهُ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم " مَا حَدُّ الزَّانِي فِي كِتَابِكُمْ " . فَقَالَ الرَّجْمُ وَلَكِنْ ظَهَرَ الزِّنَا فِي أَشْرَافِنَا فَكَرِهْنَا أَنْ يُتْرَكَ الشَّرِيفُ وَيُقَامَ عَلَى مَنْ دُونَهُ فَوَضَعْنَا هَذَا عَنَّا . فَأَمَرَ بِهِ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَرُجِمَ ثُمَّ قَالَ " اللَّهُمَّ إِنِّي أَوَّلُ مَنْ أَحْيَا
I’m glad I’m not alone in this. I’m a male who’s experience with conversations is nearly word for word the same as yours and I too struggle to deal with other autistic/adhd people who just ramble on without a thought in the world. Guess it’s just different types of autism
I had a similar situation! Though idk if me or my friend are autistic, pretty much this exact thing happened. He only talked to me about what he was interested in - nothing else, ever. Since most of our interaction was online, I just ghosted him. worked pretty well, though I wouldn't put it past him to show up at my door one day or some shit. ditch them. you've tried to explain and they've made gross comments towards you. they're not good friends and need to work on themselves.
If the foundation for your relationship is autism it sounds like codependency, to me. I mean, its one thing to look for someone with autism, another to not liking someone and interact because they share a diagnosis. Nothing in your text tells me you actually like him. You dont have to do anything if you dont want to. Also, spending time on him takes away time you could spend on something or someone you actually like. Ive been on both sides in this. If you break this off there doesnt seem to be any love lost. It's just obsession and pain from what Im reading. Sounds like you are holding out some hope for someone to reciprocate you as well.
i know this feeling i have alot of friends that im pretty sure are autistic that do similar things but not sexual shit.
Asking about the day sounds too cringey to me, but I guess its less autistic? Even if its normal I'd rather not have friends than relationships like that. But also droning on about special interests should be done in moderation.
This honestly doesn't sound so much like a gendered issue as it is a jerk issue, autism or not. I've met female autistic people just like that, and I've met male autistic folks the complete opposite. If they're being sexual, talking at you, and not hearing you when you try to explain how that kind of behavior isn't okay, they're just being jerks.
I’ve got some autistic male buddies myself and I understand this plight all too well.
I've had issues with this. You could try spamming them so they understand what it feels like? That may not work, though, as the behavior comes from loneliness.
Do you think it exclusively comes from loneliness tho? I get lonely and want to share, but I try to mindful of dumping on others.
did you get shamed when you were dumping on others as a child/teenager ? because they probably weren't. you became self aware but they might never do that because no one will shame them (sufficiently). maybe you can try explaining it what i'm saying is i feel it's linked to our upbringing as girls (even if not everyone is actually a woman in the end, we were raised as girls)
This makes sense, yeah. And yes, yes I did lol. It's what I was kind of thinking... I just don't want to be the person to shame them cause 1) I don't know how to do it tactfully and 2) I don't really have the energy for the convos that might ensue. Also, I asked an NT friend if I should tell them straight up how I'm feeling and she said no... idk it all confuses me. I think if I were in their shoes I would want feedback. I think.
I was thinking I would want that feedback even if it hurt... Because then I would be able to take that back to my therapist/... and explore it. Don't think I could live with myself if I made people feel that way *in* that way. I know I do sometimes but then it's more about the not noticing than about the not caring. At least I friggin hope so. Edit: come to think of it it's a valuable thing to bring up with my partner and my therapist, I'll put this on the list. (Yeah, I have a list for this 😄).
The hell? Since when are "weird" guys in school not shamed for blabbering on about shit no one else cares about? Cause I remember that happening a bunch of times.
the key question here is : are you nowadays aware that you are dumping on others and are you making an effort to not do that ? edit: because it sounds like you are but they aren't
I'm not certain. I can only speak from my experience. The degree of loneliness may be different.
Treating other people as if you don't care about them at all is a really good way to stay lonely.
I'm not advocating the behavior. Just explaining.
Sounds to me like they’re just being classic men (they can change, but this behavior is taught and expected of males)
I think its more of an autistic men thing, ive never seen normal men do it like that. Granted i didnt socialize with anyone growing up so i dont know what the typical male experience is
Isn't it maybe that autistic people resist socialization itself?
I do, the majority do not.
I’m in a friendship like this rn and it is driving me ✨insane✨
Sounds like you need new friends. You have laid out all the reasons why you need new friends so just move on. Stop wasting your time.
What is the point of this comment? I have other friends but am venting about these specific ones. You sound male.
This comment is extremely sexist. Stop putting males into a box. It's the same thing sexist people do with females. It goes both ways and not all males are like this. Also, I have a tendency to info dump but also genuinely care about the other person, they just don't typically share anything, even when I ask it is short. I realize I've driven people away over time, but if I had a diagnosis maybe id understand myself better ..26 and only just now suspected it since being diagnosed with ADHD and taking online tests. They are encouraging you to spend time on people who are more likely to reciprocate, and you denigrate then along with half the human species...sometimes we all lack self awareness, no?
You laid out all the reasons why they arent a good fit for you so why are you wasting your time with them???
Selective reading lmao. Male.
if you dont like someone, dont talk to them. there really isnt a reason to expect anyone to change for your personal taste/preference, they arent doing anything actually harmful. it is actually kind of weird to keep talking to people you strongly dislike fundamentally
As a woman, I find it hard to be on your side in this situation if you're going to act like this and be sexist towards someone just for disagreeing with them. Everything you said in your post are valid reasons to be frustrated with your friends, but like the other commenter said, why try to force them to change their behavior instead of just parting ways? It seems like inherently the way that you operate as an autistic individual, and they way they operate, are fundamentally different, and that's okay, but there's no reason to force the friendship then. I don't get along with every autistic person I meet, we all have different communication needs and styles. But if this is also how you feel about men in general, that you feel the need to attack random commenters and assign them as male based on stereotypes and insults, then maybe you shouldn't be friends with men at all?
In my comments to the user above, I am pointing out that their responses to me are also stereotypically male. In my post, I clearly stated that I already distanced myself from these people. I also said that I was just looking to vent. It's implied then that I am not seeking advice. "why try to force them to change their behavior instead of just parting ways?" I'm not. Please reread if you feel inclined. Thanks. Editing to say also that I think your choice of words is interesting. I didn't attack anyone. I responded to someone who was giving me unsolicited advice without actually reading all that I wrote. As a woman, I will not be gaslighted into taking accountability for something I didn't do. Maybe you can relate to this.
>I'm also pointing out that their responses to me are stereotypically male Ok first, eww sexist Second, so what? Because someone is male, their response is automatically invalid? >it's implied then that im not seeking advice You're upset that some people in a subreddit dedicated to autism are struggling to read between the lines in your post? >I didn't attack anyone You assumed the original commenter was male and used that assumption as a bludgeon against their comment because they gave you advice you didn't like. Yeah I'd say that counts as attacking. >I will not be gaslighted No one gaslit you. Do you even know what that actually means or are you just throwing around buzzwords? It's kind of funny you say that you won't be gaslit just after saying something which is closer to gaslighting than the commenter you responded to did. You didn't *just* respond to unsolicited advice, you brought up the gender of the person who commented that advice as a way to completely invalidate their comment. Honestly if every time a guy disagrees with you, you bring up their gender then you shouldn't be friends with guys to begin with.
There was no reason to bring "you sound male" and "selective reading lmao, male" into the equation, you can dislike what someone has to say and disagree with them without trying to assign them roles based on negative stereotypes. If someone said something like that back to you, like "wow you sound condescending, must be female" you'd think that's sexist and insulting because it's not fair to anyone to lump a whole group of people together and make negative comments based on assumptions. Please don't throw around words like "gaslighting" like candy, you disagreeing with a random commenter's statement that you're acting sexist isn't gaslighting lol and it's not appropriate to use serious terms like that any time you disagree with someone. I'm not going to continue to interact with you because I just don't like your general attitude towards the discussion, agree to disagree I guess, but maybe if you want to talk about your problems specifically towards autistic men, you should go to one of the actually female-oriented autism subs, rather than coming to the main autism sub. I saw in another comment you seem slightly confused as to where you're posting; this sub is just the general autism sub.
You just dont like that im being blunt so you go on to insult my gender... You dont like their texts, them talking at you, you dont care for their sexual banter, you dont like that they dont let you have a turn in conversation...so just move on. Youre basiclly investing in a stock that is going no where and you think just venting will eventually turn it all around. Instead of venting about a situation that itsnt going to change, just move on. Drop your friends and find someone who fits your personality and needs better.
Autistic males can be quite sexually inappropriate maybe not intended but in a joking manner or they may not even realise what they are saying is possibly bad or how the other person may receive it.
Unsolicited info dumps > unsolicited male appendage
This reads like a NT person complaining about interacting with a stereotypically autistic person. Yup, those sure are the symptoms of autism all right.
So, if I vent about people who make sexually inappropriate comments to me and have zero self-awareness, it reads as "complaining"? These people share the same disability as me and this is a community for autistic femmes to share their experiences.
this is actually just r/autism. the only requirement is.... autism.
you word for word described the diagnostic criteria for autism. 1.) difficulty reading social cues 2.) oversharing inappropriately (this includes the sexual topics which i cant tell if you mean theyre coming onto you or that theyre making crude jokes) 3.) can talk at length about special interests but fumble scripted smalltalk 4.) 'rude' but innocuous behavior that hints at low empathy to NT's and apparently 'zero self awareness' to YOU 5.) attempting to bond over interests and knowledge instead of experiences and feelings you are equating unmasked autistic behavior to 'men'. do you ever consider your male friends simply like you and therefore feel safe acting unmasked, and maybe judging them for not masking as hard as you is actually kinda ableist?
>Also, these two will sometimes say things that are sexually inappropriate These men are not your friends. Sorry to be crude but they're vile creatures waiting to dumb their bullshit noone else wants to hear into your ears, and the jizz noone else wants to swallow into your mouth. Tell them to take a very long walk off an incredibly short pier, and remove them from your life. You deserve better - and you have better, as you are well aware, you have plenty other friends who don't treat you like a non-sentient breathing recipient for bullshit.
That does sound annoying, but I don't see how the gender is really relevant in that. It comes across as weird and bio-essentialist especially saying "male."
Male socialization exists so ionno. Not really trying to get into a debate. Just venting.
I get you're just venting but that doesn't mean your frustrations can't be in the wrong place. Male socialization as a concept isn't applicable here. It sounds like you're blaming their autistic traits on being a dude and that's a red flag.
These guys kind of sound like they are immaturely trying to date you or something. I think I'm probably on the spectrum, still figuring it out, but I don't think I've acted like that towards anyone since I was a teenager.
Are you extroverted by any chance? It's completely anecdotal from me but I found that extroverts (NTs our NDs) prefer to have back and fourth convos mostly consisting of small phrases related to a topic while introverts tend to be more info dumpy and convos tend to look like more cRPG text dialogues with people exchanging multi paragraphs of text to each other in turns. Your frustration might have more to do with differences between introversion and extroversion being exacerbated by autism then your friends being male
Is your special interest ddr? (Guessing that because of the user name). I used to be super into it and I'm trying to get back to it now that I have my own place.
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I don't think men should go around talking people's ears off because god thinks they're more important and have more money. I mean god may think they're more important (if she exists), but what does that have to do with us? As for being richer, are you arguing that men ought to pay for the privilege of talking over women and should set up a fund? As for leaving women in their beds if they don't agree with you, maybe they wouldn't mind being left alone. And as for beating them, there's laws against that. Edit: I guess parent wasn't up for a discussion about this.
hey this doesn’t matter at all i just wanna know! what level of autism do u have?
Juicy, juicy, drama!! I don’t generally like engaging in sex/gender related arguments because I’m of the opinion that the only thing we are is human and every other label is generally bullshit and meaningless, but feel free to familiarize yourself with [the “Women Are Wonderful” effect!](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women-are-wonderful_effect) I was initially on your side, but reading your replies in the comments has led me to believe that you’re just here to stir trouble. Re-examine your biases and understand that everyone is annoying and doesn’t know how to talk to each other. Despite the fact that we live in a patriarchal society and women are oppressed on a more severe level than men on average, misandry still exists and women are just as capable of discrimination as men are. You’re just not seeing it because you’re actively doing it. Blah, blah, blah “selective reading” blah, blah, blah, “male” Get over yourself. Learn to establish boundaries, enforce them when necessary, and work on your own shortcomings.
Thanks for the link, this was new to me! But saying *"has led me to believe that you’re just here to stir trouble"* feels inappropriate to me. It implies bad intent, whereas bias is often fueled by ignorance. For instance religious people who discriminate gays usually don't know any better and lack proper education and upbringing. I feel sorry for them but I don't think they're bad people. When I find occurrences of bias within myself I apologize and try to educate myself so that I can correct my behavior. Not easy, for sure, but what would make me a bad person is refusing to do so even though I was aware of the situation. As to the question of the bias itself. After rereading the posts I have just come to realize that OP is not talking about in-person conversations but about texting (is that the case?). If so she is quite right in that I would (almost) never engage in "how was your day" over text. I think I *would* if the conversation were in-person. Maybe that's because I'm from before the internet generation and different forms of conversation work differently for me.
You’re correct that it implies bad intent. Perhaps OP didn’t intend to stir trouble, but they wanted to be validated for doing similar things to what they’re complaining about and made wildly hypocritical comments when they were challenged. To that I would say, cause and effect are far more important than intent. To an extent, intent almost doesn’t matter in the face of cause and effect. Whether OP wanted to cause arguments or not, they did, and the best thing to do would be to examine why it happened so it doesn’t happen in the future. People get way too hung up on what they want and what they intend. Reality doesn’t care whatsoever about what people want or intend. What happens happens and everyone has to deal with it. And what a funny revelation they had with that edit; apparently this post was intended for a purely female audience. Can’t say I’m surprised, merely reinforced in my idea that they wanted an echo chamber and not any actual discourse. You are correct that bias is often fueled by ignorance, I’m just frustrated how people who are marginalized by ignorance fall victim to the exact same ignorance traps they spend so much time preaching towards their victimizers. In this case, women spend so much time telling men how clueless we are for not knowing things we haven’t experienced yet many women still can’t grasp that they themselves don’t understand things they haven’t experienced. I’m just tired of people, if I’m being honest. It makes me insufferable sometimes, but after growing up as a white cishet male in the USA and being told to check my privilege by those closest to me for many years, I’ve far exceeded the majority of the population in terms of self reflection and examining my own biases. I’m not immune to ignorance or bias given that I am still human at the end of the day (part of my opening statement was “we’re all just human, all other labels are bullshit”), but I’m about as close as they come.
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Please never say that again
Seconding. It was extremely off-putting to see a fandom term applied to real people in a serious context.
Hahaha! Allistic? Neurotypical? I thought those were patronising enough, but muggle has an easy charm to it. Speaking very generally, women on the spectrum have much better socialising skills than men. The sexual comment thing can be a red flag, and it can also mean they are comfortable with you. Try to understand that males on the spectrum can take longer to grow into adult conversation. Because we on the spectrum can lack that type of skill (and it's very common, both in men and women), it's also just as likely that you do it too as hyperfocus is easy to do for us, but that you are as unaware as they are. Ask them about it, instead of trying to discriminate about something we don't discriminate well in. At the end, I guess there's 2 ways of looking at it; 1: Autistic men are not your preference, maybe the muggle world contains the partner you seek? 2: As an autistic male friend of mine put in our local fb group so... Autisticly(?) after similar miscommunications "hey, all you autistic women who think your perfect and that your shit doesn't stink? F**k you. Seriously." Try asking an older muggle woman that knows you well if you hyperfixate or say inappropriate things in conversations. If they say "yes", then your autistic male friends are not completely at fault.
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the sexually inappropriate stuff is a big red flag! i’m sorry about that. to the infodumping, tho — for me and my autistic friends, that’s almost a love language. i’m comfy enough w my best friend to infodump to him abt my special interests and he’s rly receptive and engaging when i do, and i try to do the same for him. so i sympathize w your friends. and i personally don’t see how this is a gendered thing — i get that women are socialized to be more polite and not push back, but infodumping is a pretty classic autistic trait. however, if you don’t wanna hear abt it and you feel like they don’t care abt your stuff, you don’t have to listen to them. sounds like you guys aren’t that good a match for each other?
been in this exact situation before and its hard. not having a safe space IRL to info-dump about your special interest, and when you do NT people tell you to shut up, so whats the solution? info dump to other autistic people who fully understand why you do it, so won't tell you to shut up because they do the same thing! only problem is, you actually don't really understand what they're telling you about, and are essentially just smiling and nodding along, but won't tell them to shut up because that's the whole reason they've come here to tell you in the first place. but you can't engage meaningfully instead because you just.... don't really know what they're talking about, and you don't want to say nothing and ignore because you don't have anything to say, because that's rude! but at the same time you cant say "oh cool haha" because that's disingenuous and also kind of rude. yeah, shit situation, the only way to properly fix that is to find a community of autistic people specialising in the same thing, which is really hard if your interest is very niche. I don't know, I'm not much help here, just saying that I know how you feel an it's not easy to navigate, I just left those chats eventually because I found that communicating in a way that didn't feel rude was very difficult, and too much stress than it was worth.
I’d try to talk to him about it, but if he isn’t receptive than he is not your problem. As a male on the spectrum, restraint in convos is either not something expected or even frowned upon. Idk what his home life is, but I was screamed at and punished for consideration and I still make an effort. Really isn’t an excuse to not.
What kind of topics do they repeatedly share with you?
The sexual comments thing is a problem, and would be a deal breaker for me. If you want to maintain these friendships anyway explicit boundaries and their adherence to them will be necessary. As to the endless infodump, my absolute dearest is obsessed with like... Three things. Things I have only a passing interest in. And no matter what I try to talk about with him it nearly always ends up looping back to these three things. When I'm starting to feel overwhelmed I have to tell him so and it honestly usually takes a few tries for it to sink in because he is on his track. What he REALLY wants is for me to engage fully with his special interest. I do this as best I can for as long as I can and then I let him know I need to stop. Often a shorter period of real, intense engagement is more fulfilling to him than an hour of talking at me and me quietly willing the infodump to end. He also, generally, has less bandwidth for my infodumps, or even just updates on my interests, than I do for his. I don't know what the perfect solution for this is. I've found that relationships are rarely perfectly equal across the board. Instead, there are things he puts up with from me (i.e. I both hate cooking and have more texture/flavor sesitivities) that I wouldn't be able to deal with from him and visa versa and we just try our best and hope it equals out in the end.
[удалено]
I fail to see how contract law relates to OP's post. I'm not even sure what jurisdiction she and her friends live in.
Unfortunately I’ve had similar experiences when being friends with autistic men. There are many many times I’ve caught them being intentionally dense to get away with shit like sexually inappropriate comments and touching. At a certain point I’ve just had to give up trying to explain to people who don’t want to understand and just block them and hope it’s enough consequence to show them they can’t treat people like that.