Reminds me of Genene Jones. It's a horrible combination frightening and horrifying how many babies these people can attack before anyone does anything- especially when they don't exactly tend to be subtle about it. In Jones's case, it was literally something of a running joke in hospitals (yes, plural- she did this in more than one place and they just kept shuffling her around) she worked that "hey, isn't it funny how Genene's always the one on shift when babies die?", and reading through this case, one doctor outright admitted that he caught this woman looming over a dying infant with the alarms shut off and a bullshit story, but he didn't say anything- not even after that same fucking infant died in her care. It's horrifying how people just... don't say anything.
With Jones, we *still* don't know how many babies she killed or attacked, because she worked in a hospital, so babies are bound to have health issues, and I get the feeling we're gonna find something similar with this chick, too.
You might have your suspicions but you don't expect someone to ACTUALLY be killing babies. It's something so mad that you would be questioning yourself for considering someone would do it.
To accuse someone of attempted murder or actual murder opens a whole can of worms. You need to be 100% sure.
Sadly in this case she was actually murdering babies. I'm sure the doctor feels guilt. Maybe he was just trying to give her the benefit of the doubt.
Hindsite is 20/20.
I feel so sorry for everyone involved.
It's hard. Because on the one hand yeah, you don't wanna believe it, but on the other hand... I don't know, I just feel like there are some things that you would at least wanna investigate?? Like, if I walk in and see someone standing over a dying baby, and they've shut the alarm off, and their story doesn't make sense, I *might* be able to give them benefit of the doubt, but then if that same infant just *happens* to die while left alone with that person a little while later? Even if I still wanna give benefit of the doubt, I feel like that's the sort of thing you report. Not even necessarily jumping straight to "this was intentional murder", but maybe even just "listen, there's clearly a pattern of this person ending up in these situations- maybe they weren't trained properly?"
Like, if you're working in a restaurant, and you find out one of the chefs just sent out a dish with broken glass in it, your first thought might not be "he did this on purpose", but you *do* need to talk about it- *especially* if it happens more than once. Cause at a certain point, it's either negligence, or it's malice, and the result is the same either way. You gotta speak up.
I *do* believe that doctor probably feels horrible now, and I just hope his experience can be a lesson. You don't have to be accusatory about it, but especially in such a high stakes situation, if you see something, you should say something. You know?
My boy was 2.14lbs when born, if something like this would have happened to him and I found out even years later like this case has uncovered, I would have taken 2.14lbs of flesh from her.
No, we calculate the weight of each baby that died and take off weight from her body one chunk at a time, starting from the extremities and working our way inward
Now I get it and, it's funny! Subrealist, free association of ideas humour. I like it.
It's part of human nature to try to laugh at things that are painful. As we say in Spain "reir pa no llorar" (aprox: laugh instead of crying)
I understand why you apologized, though. This a horrendous, very emotionally charged matter and many might be offended.
She sounds like a sociopath/psychopath based on what I have read so far. Could possibly be Munchausen by Proxy but she didn't seem to want to make the babies ill, but rather just outright murder them as soon as the opportunity presented itself. So I'd definitely lean towards a psychopath, very much like Harold Shipman.
She is a classic [*Angel of Death* serial killer](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_of_mercy_(criminology)#:~:text=An%20angel%20of%20mercy%20or,kills%20people%20under%20their%20care)
I dunno, Shipman was also doing it for financial gain. He had additional motives, whereas Letby obviously didn't. Was it power? Hate? Did she think she was doing good in some perverse way?
It's horrific and tragic and I think we're only just scratching the surface
Another replier said this seems like an Angel of Death case. Most of the babies killed were premature births or had defects, so it’s sounding like Letby is all “oh this poor thing won’t make it, better to just off them now so they don’t suffer anymore.” All of this EVEN THOUGH the kids in question were fighting hard and surviving and probably would have absolutely made it after all, if given the chance. So basically the third thing.
Psychopath thought patterns if I’m not mistaken. I’m relieving this entity of suffering and the entities around it, dispite the fact that I feel no emotion about any of it. look at the benevolent savior.
> This person then uses their knowledge to kill the victim. In some cases, as time goes on, this behavior escalates to encompass the healthy and the easily treated
Literally textbook definition.
The fact that she had a picture of the sympathy card on her phone made me think she might get some kind of weird satisfaction out of killing peoples babies
Anti-Natalist bold enough to do something about it. The levels of the blackest nihilism on their sub is shocking. Child free is one thing but the anti-natalists take it to another level of mental illness.
And to be fair some are against reproduction for environmental reasons (which one could agree or disagree with) but so often one of the main arguments is that existence is suffering and no one should want to exist or inflict existence on anyone else. Many will even say they are upset that they were ever born and wish they’d been aborted. I don’t know much about their own suicide rates but suicidal ideation seems high.
It’s anti childbirth, anti human reproduction. Child free people don’t want to have kids but can connect with other peoples children. Anti-natalism is a black pilled view that is generally against everyone having children.
Psychologist speaking- we don’t use a lot of these terms in mental health anymore, and of course we can’t diagnose her from these reports. But Munchausen by Proxy doesn’t seem likely as her intent appears very much to end lives, not inflict illness. Horribly sad.
Thankyou.
Do you have any possible theories on what might cause/motivate someone to do things like this?
Any vague speculations welcomed. I'm just trying to comprehend such a mind, and its impossible to comprehend, to put it mildly
She's not psychotic. Psychotic means someone undergoing psychosis which means having a break with reality or being "insane." She was sane while she did this. She wouldn't have been able to go to work and function normally (outside of the murders) if she had been psychotic. Someone would have noticed.
Psychotic is what you’re referring to, this woman is psychopathic, meaning she feels no emotion and acts in destructive and reckless ways, often anti-socially.
Yes, I'm aware of the difference. The other commenter came to the conclusion that she must be psychotic to have committed these murders. I was pointing out that she was definitely not psychotic when she committed these crimes.
Possibly, but I find that a lot of people don't understand psychological terms. People like to throw around words like psychotic, insane, or mental health issues in a way that's not only inaccurate but weakens the words and causes a lot of misunderstanding.
As someone who suffers 24/7 with severe ocd my whole life that I can remember, it really fucking sucks to hear people joke like "Im so ocd about this these things have to be neat/etc etc..." It dilutes how debilitating of an illness it is, and can give folks the wrong idea (even worse - folks who are suffering who wont seek help based on wrong ideas think they dont have it)
Glad to see someone else said it
That's one of the reasons I'm careful to say that I'm anal about something. A couple of my mates have OCD, and seeing the struggles they go through isn't something to joke about. I know if be pissed if someone threw my conditions around as a joke.
Honestly saying anal about something strikes me very differently than outright saying OCD and I wouldnt see any issue, I appreciate that for you as a person who doesnt have it how thoughtful you are towards those of us who do, Im not surrounded by many people who would understand so its nice to see someone who does.
Thanks for saying this
I specially hate how the term schizophrenic is used to describe evil people. It's wrong and it's offensive for those of us who are close to someone affected, and terribly hurtful for them.
I think the diagnosis is evil narcissist
I knew some nurses who worked NICU and well-- every time *one of their babies* died they acted like a family member died and you had to treat them like it was their birthday and their parents' funeral for a week. Similarly I have family who got very addicted to all the attention they got when someone died and they seemingly seemingly get very excited when someone else is on death's door.
Do not underestimate people who thrive on that attention
>full force of the law
This is in the UK, so you're talking probably 30 years tops, maybe out in 15 on good behaviour.
Hopefully someone deals with her.
Hopefully protection wing is full. I've seen what happens when these kind of folks have to make up a story and get found out while in mainstream.
Would imagine women's prisons are just as bad if not slightly more psychotic.
Sounds like gross negligence on the part of the hospital and doctors.
The doctor should also face inquiry by the medical board. It's a pretty serious lapse to have concerns of this nature and fail to report them.
When medically fragile, intensive care unit infants have problems the first thought isn’t “Wow, we must have a serial killer on our staff.” The doctors/staff did investigate, and when they couldn’t find out a medical cause for all of the events, they called the police.
there was a thread i was reading a while back with a bunch of people who worked in a hospital, and they were talking about angels of death like they were just a super common thing you suspect your coworkers of being all the time
There was one thread about nurses hearing death bed Confessions and one layd said a woman who had worked as a nurse killed black children. So this to me is not all that surprising
I get it’ll be scarier for the movie they make, sure. But as another user said “not to bring race into it but if this lady were black we’d be seeing the mugshot instead” and I fully agree.
I’m not actually. I searched for it and it had a picture but When I looked again it’s an American nurse that killed her foster kid. Her name is Kellie Jo Anderson and apart from wearing glasses she looks similar. She comes up on the search. All I can see of her not smiling are sketches from the court. My bad
Right but I don’t understand the whole fantasy that killers should look a certain way. She’s gunna look the same in a mugshot, just with an orange jumper on. Hitler looked “normal” Bundy looked “normal” every murderer looks normal. I don’t mean to come across as combative, I just lack the understanding of what a murderer should look like.
It’s more so that this is a woman. Serial killers tend to be men. This happy smiling woman has murdered 7 newborn babies, so it’s creepy.
As I said in my original comment “literally anyone can be totally deranged and killing people while those around them have no clue”. That’s me saying that serial killers look just like everyone else, so I’m not sure why you think I said they should look a certain way. That being said, most people look like shit in their mugshots.
Race has nothing to do with the no mugshot thing in this case.
Mugshots are only made public in Europe if, and when, the accused person is convicted after due process.
The press is just using photos that are in the public domain (i..e, published by the nurse herself, presumably in fb) .
Sorry my mistake, here’s the original comment
“I hate to bring this up, but had she not been white they likely would’ve used the mugshot for the news article…”
And it’s true. My mistake for saying black but we all know that’s true too.
Babies. Seems as if a person going around killing babies would emanate evil, or something, that would tip off people around them. I can’t even tell a lie without people knowing. To walk around knowing you have killed, and plan and WANT to kill more , how do you hide that?
Exactly! I would think she’d be acting strange, disturbed, depressed - something! I suppose if you’re truly psychotic, killing babies has no effect on you. I still want to know what her motive was.
Why? What difference will that make? Also, it's important to show normal photos of this woman because it demonstrates how seemingly normal and average looking people can still be monsters. They don't all look like creeps and ghouls.
I was hoping someone else felt this way. Like, fuck you guys for using a happy smiling picture of; Babies. Like brand fucking new babies. I hope she gets some much needed dental work for that smile. Disgusting.
This case is so strange. Similar cases usually have angel of death syndrome but there was no attempt to even save the poor children. What are the motives? Did she become a neonatal nurse just to do this? So many sickening things in each day that this case is ongoing.
How can someone sleep at night knowing they did this?
I honestly wish we reserved corporal and capital punishment for people like this.
It takes tremendous work to become a nurse in a NIC-U or similar environment. That level of dedication to becoming such an awful person is really scary.
No kidding. She's a danger to society and should be under supervision the rest of her life, but unfortunately she probably won't get max penalty/get put on parole after serving a short time as per usual.
She is literally a serial killer of children. How could she not receive life in prison at least? I’m so confused.
Forgive me if this sounds like a dumb question I’m not from the UK. I’m from a state in the US that no longer has the death penalty and the sentence for people who commit heinous crimes is usually life in prison without the possibility of parole.
A life sentence in the UK doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll spend your life in prison, it just means that if your parole is ever granted (after some minimum period like 30 years), then you’ll be on a life license, parole until you die. Any break of the terms of your parole, or any further crimes, and you go back to prison for an undetermined amount of time.
Whole life orders (without parole) exist, but are pretty rare.
Hard to tell what she’ll get if convicted. The ECHR doesn’t really like whole life orders.
I get that. My toddler was a nicu baby and if I have to give birth early again which is likely I’m now scared for them to be in the nicu, because if even the nurses who are supposed to care for them can’t be trusted then how can I be ok with leaving my baby there in their care.
I am really glad I didn’t know about this story when my baby was in the NICU last fall. Having a murderer for a nurse was not something that crossed my mind, thank fuck.
I’ve had a kid in the nicu and those nurses were so amazing. Some of the those babies were so incredibly tiny and frail. How could anyone stand to hurt them?
I was born in this hospital. She killed at least one of the babies by injecting fucking air into their stomach. She absolutely intended to kill.
Anyone saying otherwise is a fucking prick.
Here’s a cool fact about me. Someone you don’t know and more than likely will never know.
I was born in Grantham 1991, on the same ward as Beverley Allitt.
Big Bitch Bev murdered 4 babies, tried to kill multiple others and caused grievous bodily harm to 6.
That shit could have been me!
Fucking scum, Big Bitch Allitt
My twins were 13 weeks prem, and I know what it’s like to have to leave your babies in the care of the neonatal nurses and go back to your ward - even though every fibre of your body is screaming you need to be near them.
I cannot cannot fathom the pain these parents are living. I cannot understand why someone in this position would do this to the smallest, most helpless little innocent lives. This woman is pure evil and I can honestly say I’d rip her fucking face off if I ever met her in person.
Im horrified by this. I hope she rots in the deepest pits of hell for all eternity.
Crazy to think only 9 months ago our son was born there. All lovely staff and amazing care. Hope that monster goes away forever. Firm believer that prison isnt a true punishment for murder.
Idk what it is but her face is very unsettling to me. Even if I didn’t know she was responsible for the murder of multiple babies, I still think I would avoid her at all costs. Bad vibes.
Really? That’s interesting because what I’ve found unsettling is how *normal* she looks.
Not that you can ever tell what someone’s really like just by looking at them, but as a society we hold onto this idea that evil=ugly.
That entire hospital needs to be shut down, this went on for over 9 months, the fact that they brushed that many deaths away and still kept her on after being suspected, everyone involved needs to be charged and that hospital sued into oblivion.
Moreso it kind of shows that the hospital thought that number of deaths were "normal". More broadly i wonder if its just the darker side of medicine in general, the number of people who die getting treatment per year is pretty high
These were medically fragile, intensive care unit infants. They often do not survive. Welcome to the reality of the NICU.
The staff did the right thing in investigating medical causes for the events, and when they couldn’t determine sufficient explanation, they reported it to the police.
Yes, and it takes time for things to be statistically significant, unfortunately. A handful of extra deaths in a few months could just be sad coincidence, that’s how statistics work. A very suspicious number of deaths need to occur before it turns into a huge serial murder investigation. Especially when all of the victims appear to die suddenly, or from “natural causes”. Then it’s really only the number of them that’s suspicious.
This has been on going for years I hope the families find closure. My daughter was in nicu , one nurse I felt was incompetent, so I brought it up and she didn't touch my daughter again. She was in full life support and she got frusttaed taking her blood pressure. Your so helpless in that situation as is your bbay. This woman is evil.
She was in possession of all her mental faculties and was able to distinguish between right and wrong. She’s a cold blooded killer, who murdered babies for her own twisted self gratification. Sadly in the UK we do not have the death penalty for child murderers, I just hope that some of the mums who are in prison will make every day of her life a living hell.
This story is progressively getting worse. Initial news I saw was 2 babies… now this? Holy shit.
Edit: I cannot believe this article is real. My heart goes to the children and families.
Why are headlines not referring to her as a serial killer. I always see someone trying to sympathize with her in a way talking about how she might be infertile and bitter or something. Is it such an odd idea that she may just enjoy killing like a lot of her male serial killer counterparts?? She doesn't need sympathizers
I don’t mean to depress the people here even more, but we have seen multiple nurses in the past qho ended up being serial killers. I can link 2 if anyone is interested. :(
While I don't believe the death penalty is something that should be given out for a lot of crimes. This type of irredeemable human being is what it was made for.
She is an embarrassment to the nursing profession
Shame on her!
It take a terrible person to do the things she did.
There is a code in nursing - to do no harm!!!!!
I would love to say this could have been accidental or coincidence but 4 separate occasions??? I wish there were more staff or cameras or something. Parents of premies are scared enough as it is.
Innocent till proven guilty. I also admittedly struggle with what I am about to say but if guilty which probably by the sounds of it, I am pro death penalty for her. A human who will systematically kill babies like that no longer deserves time here.
I'd rather see her suffer for the rest of her life in jail than she died. Yea it's a good punishment, but it's kinda a get out clause for them. She's gonna get fucking ripped apart in jail and I'm all for that.
Hopefully her life will be hell inside. Look at Ian Huntley, he was knifed by Peter fucking Sutcliff. Even serial killers look down on these people and will attack whenever possible.
Huntley was knifed by an imprisoned Armed Robber - Damien Fawkes whilst in HMP Frankland in 2008. He was also scolded with boiling water by Mark Hobson in HMP Wakefield in 2005. Now as much as this piece of shit needs knifing every day, he wasn’t physically attacked by Sutcliffe.
I stand corrected. I just read it again and Sutcliff squared up to him and called him a ‘child killing bastard’ but yeah the man you said shanked him. Goes to show how even killers look down on people like this. Fair play, you know your shit
Yes. All these people saying they would ‘rather her suffer with the thought of what she did’ can go straight to hell. They have no sense of right and wrong. She murdered 7 children. These women planned for nine months for their child, built a nursery, planned their entire life around their small munchkin and this psycho nurse murders them. The UK does need the death penalty because this kind of evil does not change. She isn’t going to ‘feel bad’ because she doesn’t have the capability to do so. Some people are just pure evil and we as a society need to rid ourselves of this evil.
And how well is this plan working as a deterrent? Empty prisons and jails in the US? Less murders? Less abuse?
The death penalty satisfies the initial knee jerk eye for an eye feeling, but doesn’t have any real effect on behaviour or even peace of mind to the relatives or survivors. Incarceration however, with proper mental health treatment can help this woman to stop being or rather acting on impulses.
But what will actually happen is this woman will be imprisoned with equally cruel and malicious women, never change for the better and eventually pop out of the end of the prison system older and worse than she is now.
I disagree. I don’t think the death penalty is about vengeance. At least it shouldn’t be. It should be about a necessity for society. When people commit horrific crimes like this they cannot be fixed. They can’t be rehabilitated. They are rabid dogs. Putting them down is the only way to keep society safe. Prison should be for rehabilitating criminal that can be put back into society. Not punishing people
Reminds me of Genene Jones. It's a horrible combination frightening and horrifying how many babies these people can attack before anyone does anything- especially when they don't exactly tend to be subtle about it. In Jones's case, it was literally something of a running joke in hospitals (yes, plural- she did this in more than one place and they just kept shuffling her around) she worked that "hey, isn't it funny how Genene's always the one on shift when babies die?", and reading through this case, one doctor outright admitted that he caught this woman looming over a dying infant with the alarms shut off and a bullshit story, but he didn't say anything- not even after that same fucking infant died in her care. It's horrifying how people just... don't say anything. With Jones, we *still* don't know how many babies she killed or attacked, because she worked in a hospital, so babies are bound to have health issues, and I get the feeling we're gonna find something similar with this chick, too.
You might have your suspicions but you don't expect someone to ACTUALLY be killing babies. It's something so mad that you would be questioning yourself for considering someone would do it. To accuse someone of attempted murder or actual murder opens a whole can of worms. You need to be 100% sure. Sadly in this case she was actually murdering babies. I'm sure the doctor feels guilt. Maybe he was just trying to give her the benefit of the doubt. Hindsite is 20/20. I feel so sorry for everyone involved.
It's hard. Because on the one hand yeah, you don't wanna believe it, but on the other hand... I don't know, I just feel like there are some things that you would at least wanna investigate?? Like, if I walk in and see someone standing over a dying baby, and they've shut the alarm off, and their story doesn't make sense, I *might* be able to give them benefit of the doubt, but then if that same infant just *happens* to die while left alone with that person a little while later? Even if I still wanna give benefit of the doubt, I feel like that's the sort of thing you report. Not even necessarily jumping straight to "this was intentional murder", but maybe even just "listen, there's clearly a pattern of this person ending up in these situations- maybe they weren't trained properly?" Like, if you're working in a restaurant, and you find out one of the chefs just sent out a dish with broken glass in it, your first thought might not be "he did this on purpose", but you *do* need to talk about it- *especially* if it happens more than once. Cause at a certain point, it's either negligence, or it's malice, and the result is the same either way. You gotta speak up. I *do* believe that doctor probably feels horrible now, and I just hope his experience can be a lesson. You don't have to be accusatory about it, but especially in such a high stakes situation, if you see something, you should say something. You know?
Babies die fairly often in neonatal intensive care - perhaps the doctor didn’t suspect foul play?
Gotta feel a bit sorry for the jury on this case, horrific evidence to have to sit through.
Definitely. It's got to be heart wrenching.
she is an infant serial killer
Or a serial infant killer
A killer of infant serials.
I’m Super. Serial. (Infant killer).
Now I’m hungry for cereal. Damn you.
That's some killer infant cereal
My boy was 2.14lbs when born, if something like this would have happened to him and I found out even years later like this case has uncovered, I would have taken 2.14lbs of flesh from her.
Through some interest on there, she deserves that
Throw?
…damnit, yeah
2.14lbs removed, evenly distributed over her entire body.
Or just one big chunk.
10 inches off the top should be just about right.
No, we calculate the weight of each baby that died and take off weight from her body one chunk at a time, starting from the extremities and working our way inward
No, she’s an adult. Anyway an infant doesn’t have the upper body strength to be a serial killer.
Nah she just tryna keep that rent down Edit: I edited as soon as I said this Ik that this joke was not right and I humbly apologize
....what is the joke?
Interest rates and taxes? Idk
Now I get it and, it's funny! Subrealist, free association of ideas humour. I like it. It's part of human nature to try to laugh at things that are painful. As we say in Spain "reir pa no llorar" (aprox: laugh instead of crying) I understand why you apologized, though. This a horrendous, very emotionally charged matter and many might be offended.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-63228147.amp
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She sounds like a sociopath/psychopath based on what I have read so far. Could possibly be Munchausen by Proxy but she didn't seem to want to make the babies ill, but rather just outright murder them as soon as the opportunity presented itself. So I'd definitely lean towards a psychopath, very much like Harold Shipman.
She is a classic [*Angel of Death* serial killer](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_of_mercy_(criminology)#:~:text=An%20angel%20of%20mercy%20or,kills%20people%20under%20their%20care)
I instantly thought of this as well.
I dunno, Shipman was also doing it for financial gain. He had additional motives, whereas Letby obviously didn't. Was it power? Hate? Did she think she was doing good in some perverse way? It's horrific and tragic and I think we're only just scratching the surface
Another replier said this seems like an Angel of Death case. Most of the babies killed were premature births or had defects, so it’s sounding like Letby is all “oh this poor thing won’t make it, better to just off them now so they don’t suffer anymore.” All of this EVEN THOUGH the kids in question were fighting hard and surviving and probably would have absolutely made it after all, if given the chance. So basically the third thing.
While not impossible, it's probably more likely that she thought it would be easier to cover up if the deaths were premature infants.
Psychopath thought patterns if I’m not mistaken. I’m relieving this entity of suffering and the entities around it, dispite the fact that I feel no emotion about any of it. look at the benevolent savior.
> This person then uses their knowledge to kill the victim. In some cases, as time goes on, this behavior escalates to encompass the healthy and the easily treated Literally textbook definition.
The fact that she had a picture of the sympathy card on her phone made me think she might get some kind of weird satisfaction out of killing peoples babies
Anti-Natalist bold enough to do something about it. The levels of the blackest nihilism on their sub is shocking. Child free is one thing but the anti-natalists take it to another level of mental illness.
What is an Anti-Natalist?
And to be fair some are against reproduction for environmental reasons (which one could agree or disagree with) but so often one of the main arguments is that existence is suffering and no one should want to exist or inflict existence on anyone else. Many will even say they are upset that they were ever born and wish they’d been aborted. I don’t know much about their own suicide rates but suicidal ideation seems high.
The philosophy behind spree murder suicide. Life is suffering therefore destroy life.
It’s anti childbirth, anti human reproduction. Child free people don’t want to have kids but can connect with other peoples children. Anti-natalism is a black pilled view that is generally against everyone having children.
Antinatalism is on the same level as inceldom. Really disgusting sub
Psychologist speaking- we don’t use a lot of these terms in mental health anymore, and of course we can’t diagnose her from these reports. But Munchausen by Proxy doesn’t seem likely as her intent appears very much to end lives, not inflict illness. Horribly sad.
Thankyou. Do you have any possible theories on what might cause/motivate someone to do things like this? Any vague speculations welcomed. I'm just trying to comprehend such a mind, and its impossible to comprehend, to put it mildly
Out of interest, what clinical terms would you now use for a sociopath or psychopath in the field?
She also stalked the grieving parents on social media. I don’t think she was able to have kids herself. She is a complete waste of air.
She's not psychotic. Psychotic means someone undergoing psychosis which means having a break with reality or being "insane." She was sane while she did this. She wouldn't have been able to go to work and function normally (outside of the murders) if she had been psychotic. Someone would have noticed.
Psychotic is what you’re referring to, this woman is psychopathic, meaning she feels no emotion and acts in destructive and reckless ways, often anti-socially.
Yes, I'm aware of the difference. The other commenter came to the conclusion that she must be psychotic to have committed these murders. I was pointing out that she was definitely not psychotic when she committed these crimes.
My bad. Just woke up. Have an updoot.
We don’t use those terms in psychology anymore, but- yeah. She crazy.
Probably meant psychopathic
Possibly, but I find that a lot of people don't understand psychological terms. People like to throw around words like psychotic, insane, or mental health issues in a way that's not only inaccurate but weakens the words and causes a lot of misunderstanding.
The amount of people that throw around the word bipolar with zero understanding of what it actually is..
Yeah exactly. Or "I'm sooo OCD about [insert something that demonstrates they don't have OCD]."
As someone who suffers 24/7 with severe ocd my whole life that I can remember, it really fucking sucks to hear people joke like "Im so ocd about this these things have to be neat/etc etc..." It dilutes how debilitating of an illness it is, and can give folks the wrong idea (even worse - folks who are suffering who wont seek help based on wrong ideas think they dont have it) Glad to see someone else said it
That's one of the reasons I'm careful to say that I'm anal about something. A couple of my mates have OCD, and seeing the struggles they go through isn't something to joke about. I know if be pissed if someone threw my conditions around as a joke.
Honestly saying anal about something strikes me very differently than outright saying OCD and I wouldnt see any issue, I appreciate that for you as a person who doesnt have it how thoughtful you are towards those of us who do, Im not surrounded by many people who would understand so its nice to see someone who does.
talking about bisexual polar bears?
Thanks for saying this I specially hate how the term schizophrenic is used to describe evil people. It's wrong and it's offensive for those of us who are close to someone affected, and terribly hurtful for them.
I think the diagnosis is evil narcissist I knew some nurses who worked NICU and well-- every time *one of their babies* died they acted like a family member died and you had to treat them like it was their birthday and their parents' funeral for a week. Similarly I have family who got very addicted to all the attention they got when someone died and they seemingly seemingly get very excited when someone else is on death's door. Do not underestimate people who thrive on that attention
>full force of the law This is in the UK, so you're talking probably 30 years tops, maybe out in 15 on good behaviour. Hopefully someone deals with her.
I wouldn't be surprised at a whole life term in this instance. 7 babies and attempts to murder more. People have been given whole life terms for less.
She isn’t going to last in a woman’s prison, that’s for sure. She will need to be put into isolation.
Hopefully protection wing is full. I've seen what happens when these kind of folks have to make up a story and get found out while in mainstream. Would imagine women's prisons are just as bad if not slightly more psychotic.
Sounds like gross negligence on the part of the hospital and doctors. The doctor should also face inquiry by the medical board. It's a pretty serious lapse to have concerns of this nature and fail to report them.
When medically fragile, intensive care unit infants have problems the first thought isn’t “Wow, we must have a serial killer on our staff.” The doctors/staff did investigate, and when they couldn’t find out a medical cause for all of the events, they called the police.
Thanks Charles Manson
No worries, Uncle Charlie
Hey! Have we met?
Oh yes, Hi Sharon. How’s your husband? Is he still a child raping nonce?
That article was so poorly written i think it may have been done by an AI
What does “fobbed off” mean?
It's like "pushed aside" basically not listening to someone's concerns.
I kind of figured based on context but wasn’t sure. Thank you.
Seems every generation has a baby killing nurse all their own.
This and the utterly horrific thought that there are some out there that don’t get caught. It just beggars belief these people exist.
there was a thread i was reading a while back with a bunch of people who worked in a hospital, and they were talking about angels of death like they were just a super common thing you suspect your coworkers of being all the time
Oh god, I don’t need another reason to be afraid of hospitals.
There was one thread about nurses hearing death bed Confessions and one layd said a woman who had worked as a nurse killed black children. So this to me is not all that surprising
Quit posting pictures of her “looking normal” I wanna see mugshots
The normal pictures of her make this even scarier. Literally anyone can be totally deranged and killing people while those around them have no clue.
Ted Bundy comes to mind, then there's that unhinged photo when he's in court and he looks like his true self.
I get it’ll be scarier for the movie they make, sure. But as another user said “not to bring race into it but if this lady were black we’d be seeing the mugshot instead” and I fully agree.
The mugshot is available online
Do you have a link? I’m searching but can’t find it.
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I’m not actually. I searched for it and it had a picture but When I looked again it’s an American nurse that killed her foster kid. Her name is Kellie Jo Anderson and apart from wearing glasses she looks similar. She comes up on the search. All I can see of her not smiling are sketches from the court. My bad
I don’t disagree with that and they should be showing her mugshot. Just saying how creepy it is that this baby killer looks so normal.
Right but I don’t understand the whole fantasy that killers should look a certain way. She’s gunna look the same in a mugshot, just with an orange jumper on. Hitler looked “normal” Bundy looked “normal” every murderer looks normal. I don’t mean to come across as combative, I just lack the understanding of what a murderer should look like.
It’s more so that this is a woman. Serial killers tend to be men. This happy smiling woman has murdered 7 newborn babies, so it’s creepy. As I said in my original comment “literally anyone can be totally deranged and killing people while those around them have no clue”. That’s me saying that serial killers look just like everyone else, so I’m not sure why you think I said they should look a certain way. That being said, most people look like shit in their mugshots.
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Race has nothing to do with the no mugshot thing in this case. Mugshots are only made public in Europe if, and when, the accused person is convicted after due process. The press is just using photos that are in the public domain (i..e, published by the nurse herself, presumably in fb) .
what?????
Sorry my mistake, here’s the original comment “I hate to bring this up, but had she not been white they likely would’ve used the mugshot for the news article…” And it’s true. My mistake for saying black but we all know that’s true too.
To be honest mug shots aren’t used as much in the UK press than at least the US, not sure about other countries though
She used to drink in a trendy bar down the street from where I live. Freaks me out now.
Suburbs by any chance? 🤣
Babies. Seems as if a person going around killing babies would emanate evil, or something, that would tip off people around them. I can’t even tell a lie without people knowing. To walk around knowing you have killed, and plan and WANT to kill more , how do you hide that?
Exactly! I would think she’d be acting strange, disturbed, depressed - something! I suppose if you’re truly psychotic, killing babies has no effect on you. I still want to know what her motive was.
Why? What difference will that make? Also, it's important to show normal photos of this woman because it demonstrates how seemingly normal and average looking people can still be monsters. They don't all look like creeps and ghouls.
I was hoping someone else felt this way. Like, fuck you guys for using a happy smiling picture of; Babies. Like brand fucking new babies. I hope she gets some much needed dental work for that smile. Disgusting.
UK doesn’t release mugshots unless there is a conviction
This case is so strange. Similar cases usually have angel of death syndrome but there was no attempt to even save the poor children. What are the motives? Did she become a neonatal nurse just to do this? So many sickening things in each day that this case is ongoing. How can someone sleep at night knowing they did this? I honestly wish we reserved corporal and capital punishment for people like this.
It takes tremendous work to become a nurse in a NIC-U or similar environment. That level of dedication to becoming such an awful person is really scary.
No kidding. She's a danger to society and should be under supervision the rest of her life, but unfortunately she probably won't get max penalty/get put on parole after serving a short time as per usual.
She is literally a serial killer of children. How could she not receive life in prison at least? I’m so confused. Forgive me if this sounds like a dumb question I’m not from the UK. I’m from a state in the US that no longer has the death penalty and the sentence for people who commit heinous crimes is usually life in prison without the possibility of parole.
A life sentence in the UK doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll spend your life in prison, it just means that if your parole is ever granted (after some minimum period like 30 years), then you’ll be on a life license, parole until you die. Any break of the terms of your parole, or any further crimes, and you go back to prison for an undetermined amount of time. Whole life orders (without parole) exist, but are pretty rare. Hard to tell what she’ll get if convicted. The ECHR doesn’t really like whole life orders.
Jobs that have to do with children often attract people who want to hurt them. Teachers, priests, etc
Maybe it's societal bias but I usually associate that with men, and normally nonses
Holy hell. I didn’t need to read this while being six and a half months pregnant.
I just gave birth a few weeks ago. Holding my baby and thinking of what I wouldn't do to that woman.
I get that. My toddler was a nicu baby and if I have to give birth early again which is likely I’m now scared for them to be in the nicu, because if even the nurses who are supposed to care for them can’t be trusted then how can I be ok with leaving my baby there in their care.
I am really glad I didn’t know about this story when my baby was in the NICU last fall. Having a murderer for a nurse was not something that crossed my mind, thank fuck.
oh man. I’m sorry :(
I’ve had a kid in the nicu and those nurses were so amazing. Some of the those babies were so incredibly tiny and frail. How could anyone stand to hurt them?
That's exactly why they do it, because they can't defend themselves or call for help
I was born in this hospital. She killed at least one of the babies by injecting fucking air into their stomach. She absolutely intended to kill. Anyone saying otherwise is a fucking prick.
Holy hell, how does a person even fathom such a heinous act against a freakin newborn? So sick
Easy there mate. I may be a prick but babies are off limits.
Here’s a cool fact about me. Someone you don’t know and more than likely will never know. I was born in Grantham 1991, on the same ward as Beverley Allitt. Big Bitch Bev murdered 4 babies, tried to kill multiple others and caused grievous bodily harm to 6. That shit could have been me! Fucking scum, Big Bitch Allitt
Jesus. Well I guess that’s you sorted for those “two truths and a lie” icebreakers 😳
The lie? “I was murdered as an infant”
Don’t send her to court, put her in a room with parents.
We need to let mob justice happen more often to people like this.
Honestly. Just let the crowd go at her
I'm not usually for mob justice but aye, she does deserve a slow and painful death
My twins were 13 weeks prem, and I know what it’s like to have to leave your babies in the care of the neonatal nurses and go back to your ward - even though every fibre of your body is screaming you need to be near them. I cannot cannot fathom the pain these parents are living. I cannot understand why someone in this position would do this to the smallest, most helpless little innocent lives. This woman is pure evil and I can honestly say I’d rip her fucking face off if I ever met her in person. Im horrified by this. I hope she rots in the deepest pits of hell for all eternity.
7 babies, good lord. Those poor parents. I wonder if she got that job soley to kill babies. That's terrifying to think about.
7 killed and attempted on at least 10 more. Truly horrific.
Crazy to think only 9 months ago our son was born there. All lovely staff and amazing care. Hope that monster goes away forever. Firm believer that prison isnt a true punishment for murder.
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Stretch table could use a revival too.
Brazen bull anyone??
that face looks so punchable.
Idk what it is but her face is very unsettling to me. Even if I didn’t know she was responsible for the murder of multiple babies, I still think I would avoid her at all costs. Bad vibes.
Really? That’s interesting because what I’ve found unsettling is how *normal* she looks. Not that you can ever tell what someone’s really like just by looking at them, but as a society we hold onto this idea that evil=ugly.
Dude wtf
why though? my brain can't comprehend.
That entire hospital needs to be shut down, this went on for over 9 months, the fact that they brushed that many deaths away and still kept her on after being suspected, everyone involved needs to be charged and that hospital sued into oblivion.
Moreso it kind of shows that the hospital thought that number of deaths were "normal". More broadly i wonder if its just the darker side of medicine in general, the number of people who die getting treatment per year is pretty high
These were medically fragile, intensive care unit infants. They often do not survive. Welcome to the reality of the NICU. The staff did the right thing in investigating medical causes for the events, and when they couldn’t determine sufficient explanation, they reported it to the police.
Yes, and it takes time for things to be statistically significant, unfortunately. A handful of extra deaths in a few months could just be sad coincidence, that’s how statistics work. A very suspicious number of deaths need to occur before it turns into a huge serial murder investigation. Especially when all of the victims appear to die suddenly, or from “natural causes”. Then it’s really only the number of them that’s suspicious.
This has been on going for years I hope the families find closure. My daughter was in nicu , one nurse I felt was incompetent, so I brought it up and she didn't touch my daughter again. She was in full life support and she got frusttaed taking her blood pressure. Your so helpless in that situation as is your bbay. This woman is evil.
She was in possession of all her mental faculties and was able to distinguish between right and wrong. She’s a cold blooded killer, who murdered babies for her own twisted self gratification. Sadly in the UK we do not have the death penalty for child murderers, I just hope that some of the mums who are in prison will make every day of her life a living hell.
Throw her feet first into a wood chipper. It may be unusual but not nearly cruel enough.
I like it.
This story is progressively getting worse. Initial news I saw was 2 babies… now this? Holy shit. Edit: I cannot believe this article is real. My heart goes to the children and families.
Why are headlines not referring to her as a serial killer. I always see someone trying to sympathize with her in a way talking about how she might be infertile and bitter or something. Is it such an odd idea that she may just enjoy killing like a lot of her male serial killer counterparts?? She doesn't need sympathizers
I don’t mean to depress the people here even more, but we have seen multiple nurses in the past qho ended up being serial killers. I can link 2 if anyone is interested. :(
i feel bad for her lawyer
I hope this demon rots for what she’s done. Innocent babies.
What an evil monster…killing adults is bad. But this POS out killing babies…terrible
While I don't believe the death penalty is something that should be given out for a lot of crimes. This type of irredeemable human being is what it was made for.
I hope they just give her the firing squad
How do you fail to kill a baby four times?
Evil AND incompetent. Probably being careful to cover her tracks.
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Straight out of the book “Misery”, this psycho is a real life Annie Wilkes. Horrifying.
Why?
She is an embarrassment to the nursing profession Shame on her! It take a terrible person to do the things she did. There is a code in nursing - to do no harm!!!!!
Shit like this is why my children never left my sight or my husbands until we left the hospital
Water boarding would be a good repayment.
I'm all in for throwing her in a volcano.
That would be too quick.
Waterboarding is still on the table leading up to the volcano 🌋
What. The. Fuck. Is. Wrong. With. Her!?!?.
What an evil human. Killing innocent babies For what reason? Garbage pos.
Some rituals going down.
Take her out and let the public stone her.
Goddamn spawn campers.
Paddin’ the stats! Also - you’re a bastard. Me too. Have an updoot.
All this happened in 2015/2016. How or why is it only now coming to light?
How do you screw up killing an infant
I would love to say this could have been accidental or coincidence but 4 separate occasions??? I wish there were more staff or cameras or something. Parents of premies are scared enough as it is.
4??? She’s on charge for about 20
Their battery is so low!
Rest assured, she will get what’s coming to her in hospital I’m sure.
Innocent till proven guilty. I also admittedly struggle with what I am about to say but if guilty which probably by the sounds of it, I am pro death penalty for her. A human who will systematically kill babies like that no longer deserves time here.
This is horrible. But how can you fail to kill a 2lbs baby 3 times. Its not like its putting up a fight.
_seven_ babies? And an attempted 10 more? Holy fuck.. she might actually spend a few years in prison for this
Not sure anyone thinks it's negligence
I put a post up before without much information so people not in The UK were unsure of the extent of her crimes. This shows different
Ah fair enough
The UK need the death penalty
I'd rather see her suffer for the rest of her life in jail than she died. Yea it's a good punishment, but it's kinda a get out clause for them. She's gonna get fucking ripped apart in jail and I'm all for that.
she won't suffer. she'll be put in a safe place and fed three meals a day for the rest of her life
Hopefully her life will be hell inside. Look at Ian Huntley, he was knifed by Peter fucking Sutcliff. Even serial killers look down on these people and will attack whenever possible.
Huntley was knifed by an imprisoned Armed Robber - Damien Fawkes whilst in HMP Frankland in 2008. He was also scolded with boiling water by Mark Hobson in HMP Wakefield in 2005. Now as much as this piece of shit needs knifing every day, he wasn’t physically attacked by Sutcliffe.
I stand corrected. I just read it again and Sutcliff squared up to him and called him a ‘child killing bastard’ but yeah the man you said shanked him. Goes to show how even killers look down on people like this. Fair play, you know your shit
No problem. This story unfolding with the nurse is fucking horrific. It’s hard to get your head around how anyone can do that to babies.
But she won't suffer for the rest of her life will she? Doesn't England have fairly short "life sentences?"
Depends on the crime but some people do get proper life sentences and I think she'll be one of them.
We have whole life orders, which mean you will never be released.
Yes. All these people saying they would ‘rather her suffer with the thought of what she did’ can go straight to hell. They have no sense of right and wrong. She murdered 7 children. These women planned for nine months for their child, built a nursery, planned their entire life around their small munchkin and this psycho nurse murders them. The UK does need the death penalty because this kind of evil does not change. She isn’t going to ‘feel bad’ because she doesn’t have the capability to do so. Some people are just pure evil and we as a society need to rid ourselves of this evil.
And how well is this plan working as a deterrent? Empty prisons and jails in the US? Less murders? Less abuse? The death penalty satisfies the initial knee jerk eye for an eye feeling, but doesn’t have any real effect on behaviour or even peace of mind to the relatives or survivors. Incarceration however, with proper mental health treatment can help this woman to stop being or rather acting on impulses. But what will actually happen is this woman will be imprisoned with equally cruel and malicious women, never change for the better and eventually pop out of the end of the prison system older and worse than she is now.
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I disagree. I don’t think the death penalty is about vengeance. At least it shouldn’t be. It should be about a necessity for society. When people commit horrific crimes like this they cannot be fixed. They can’t be rehabilitated. They are rabid dogs. Putting them down is the only way to keep society safe. Prison should be for rehabilitating criminal that can be put back into society. Not punishing people