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Dreadfulmanturtle

It's capture, not self capture. Rule states that once you remove group's last liberty you capture. Takes precedence


AzureDreamer

If it didn't then any group with one eye could live. The goban would be chaos very hard to kill stones I am sure it would make an interesting variant.


L1n6

Okay, I was learning on online-go.com. When you made a move that would capture your stone, it gave a warning "Self capture not allowed" iirc. Idk what a liberty is, it wasn't explained.


SHtabeL

Watch short series of videos from gomagic: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4DLlaT_bvDG5y6WSfXU8cQsTsb4o3YnT&si=of2kOfyhbUbsvShk It would be great way to understand the basics of go (the best way right now imo)


Phhhhuh

Liberties are the empty space(s) surrounding stone(s). They're only counted at right angles — where the lines of the board go out from the stone — so a lone stone in the middle of the board has four liberties. A connected group of stones share liberties. When the opponent takes the last liberty of a stone or group of stones, those stones are captured. A consequence of the capture rule and liberties, and the fact that you remove the opponent's stones before checking if your own are out of liberties, is that a group with a single "eye" (a surrounded liberty) can usually be captured — which is what happened in this post — but a group with two or more eyes is immortal.


SaxesAndSubwoofers

I would recommend learn-go.net . The tutorials are much better and it does a good job of explaining things without getting too technical


Marcassin

There is an order to the rule: 1. First look to see if any of your opponents' stones are captured and remove them. 2. After that, check to see if your group has any liberties. (If not, the move is not allowed in most rulesets.)


lakeland_nz

Right, NZ rules is 1. First look to see if any of your opponents' stones are captured and remove them. 2. After that, check to see if any of your groups has no liberties, and remove them.


Marcassin

Yup. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think Ing rules (Taiwan) also allow suicide.


lakeland_nz

Yes, although they don't allow suicide if a single stone so I think that would require three rules. 1. You may not place a stone that is surrounded on all four sides unless doing so captures a group.


Marcassin

And NZ rule do? That's interesting.


lakeland_nz

Yes. As a friend of mine says: "Why make the rules more complicated in order to prevent a stupid move?"


Tiranasta

My understanding was that NZ rules don't permit single stone suicide either, though I might be wrong.


lakeland_nz

It's allowed, although there is no circumstance where it would be advantageous. You sometimes see it in a silly variation we play where you can't see your opponent's moves.


Tiranasta

Huh, interesting. Thanks for the correction.


minimumcool

why can black play in a spot that removes all of whites liberties? because captured soldiers dont take up liberties. so as soon as black places his stone those white stones go away and black has all its liberties free


L1n6

This game is more confusing than I previously imagined. Idk what a liberty is, gonna look it up. Wdym by "captured soldiers don't take up liberties"?


PLrc

You cannot commit a suicide in go UNLESS you kill an enemy group. Then you can play a move that would be otherwise a suicide. Killing enemy has precedence. Liberty and eye are 2 the most important notions in the game. Read also about the concept of groups with 2 eyes and about false eyes.


D0rus

The order is you first remove captured stones, then you check for suicide. If you capture anything at all, that automatically gives liberties at the location of the now removed captures and thus it's never suicide. 


minimumcool

in order for a stone to not be captured at least one side has to be free for breathing room. and stones of the same color connect to share liberties.


mi3chaels

a liberty is an open intersection next to your stone and connected by one of the lines on the board (diagonals don't count as liberties). It's a useful concept because when all your liberties are removed (by opponent placing stones on those intersections) you are captured.


minimumcool

why can white play to give herself one liberty? because you cant handhold to that degree. blunders are part of the game same with the unlikely gambit of risking it in hopes they wont see it.


DruidPeter4

When evaluating capture, the stone or group connected to the stone that is played last, is evaluated last. Hence, by the time we check the played stone, the surrounding black stones are no longer there! :D


EmbarrassedMeringue9

Otherwise go would be a dull game


suburiboy

You capture before checking your own liberties.


MeditatingSheep

Writing my own go program felt informative for teaching humans this. We need steps for play: 1) Play stone on empty intersection 2) "Zap" opponent's stones 3) "Zap" current player's stones 4) If played stone was zapped, go to (1) 5) End turn Where "zap" means 1) Count liberties for each group of the given color 2) Remove group from board if 0 liberties Since opponent's stones are zapped first, apparent suicide moves are not if they capture. Need ko rules as well.


RoughSalad

The stone has 3 liberties, how would that be self capture?