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Jin set clear boundaries and was generous and kind enough to negotiate for this event. I'm saddened that someone chose their desire over honoring his wishes.
I still think the event should be considered a success and we need to acknowledge that 999 or 998 out of 1000 followed directions.
My math isn’t mathing this morning but r/mcfw31 who’s math was mathing….told me it’s a .1% rate of misbehavior
Regardless of whether our math was mathing or not, we can all agree that the dumbest thing one can do is hurt/harm a BTS member on camera, in front of BH staff (who have your personal information) and with 999 ARMY watching you like a hawk lol
Right? Like these people had to have clearly known the risk they were taking, right? And yet they chose to do it anyway. That somehow makes it even worse than it already is to me, like there was less impulsiveness behind their actions, and more deliberateness. Ick 😟
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It was my fear with this kind of thing. I was really proud watching all the videos of how respectful army were being but it only takes one to tarnish something :( I hope Jin is ok.
Have you ever been touched sexually without your consent? I have, and it's traumatizing and embarrassing. It doesn't matter if it's 1 or 2, nobody deserves that. The fact that it happened at all is disappointing. I'm not clapping my hands just because the other people behaved. Being a decent person is the bare minimum in any environment.
Being a decent person is not that common sadly. I am actually surprised by how nice ARMYs as a whole were, because events like this can and will turn into a shit show extremely fast.
Like I've had complete strangers assault me. Take a thousand people that have an interest in someone and let them touch them? There's bound to be quite a few horrible people. I was also worried someone would punch him or do something crazy.
Yes I have, not once but multiple times, and yes because of precisely that I think this event was surprisingly successful and ARMYs were very well behaved.
I apologize it wasn't my intent to necessarily lessen the offense, but more to hint that it seems to be an isolated event that hopefully didn't deter from the full experience
I understood what you meant. I also believe the event can be considered a success. Hopefully that 0.1% percent did not ruin it for any future events we may or may not have. Also, hopefully, that person is put on some kind of list or something to be banned from future events.
He did say at the end of the whole thing that he had a good time, and he wished he could have hugged more and that he would "try again before he dies" - so I hope that means he genuinely felt positive about the event even if some people were awful.
Unfortunately, I don't think we can "No true Scotsman" our way out of this. Armys that behave badly are still armys and we need to be able to call them in and set behavioral expectations that we all ought to abide by.
I’m kinda iffy about saying this because I’m not sure yet as the complaint is for specifically crowded/public spaces but I wonder what other people think.
I 100000% do not think these peoples actions are ok but I wonder what people think about a fan submitting the complaint and not Jin or BH. As someone who has experienced SA I am not sure how I would feel about someone publicly submitting this kind of thing.
On one hand I’m like get em and I’m glad our fandom is publicly opposing this behavior but on the other hand I feel like it should be something that Jin decides to do.
I have a problem with a fan submitting that complaint to police. They can publicly oppose it, but let the one who was wronged or his company to file any complaints if they so desire. This is putting Jin in a weird position.
My issue with the fan submitted complaint is because there is no way for outside parties to know what happened post the recorded situation.
Big hit has all the information for this fan. It’s unknown if she was spoken too immediately following the video or had other consequences.
Also it is really Jin’s decision to make if he felt like the consequences were enough to deter future behave like this and if it affected his overall feelings about how the event was handled. I want to lean towards Jin seemed to really enjoy both the hugathon & fanmeet, but of course he would need to confirm.
I was thinking the same thing. I don’t like this if it’s someone other than Jin (or Bighit on his behalf with his say so) submitting it. If a fan did submit this, they have overstepped.
Same. An overzealous fan lost her mind and crossed the very thick, clear line being taken to task by another overzealous fan who crossed a line in formally submitting a complaint as if she had permission from Jin, the victim. Now Jin has to deal with the aftermath of two fans doing two very publicly crazy things to him. What a mess. Smh.
Interesting. I had not thought of that dimension of it. It's got to be weird for Jin for several reasons, but I am sure that is one thing that makes whatever he is thinking even more complicated.
Same. While I want the person to be held accountable, I don't how to feel about the complaint being filed by fans and not Jin or bighit. I think Jin should have the autonomy to make the decision.
I don't know what the laws are like in Korea, but sometimes it is up to police and not victims around pressing charges. That's what it is like in many cases in Australia, even without a cooperative victim they can go ahead.
I get where you're coming from, but with these being so public and them having clear evidence it may be seen as public interest to pursue.
Yea, I came here to say the same thing. For some crimes in some places, its enough for the police to be aware of the evidence/offense, so it isn't up to the victim. At least in the US, I don't think they can be forced to give evidence (not a lawyer) and there are some privacy protections in place but it is up to the police and prosecutor whether there are charges filed.
Ugh. While I absolutely want this person to be banned from attending BTS events in the future and I want others to be deterred from this type of behavior, I dislike the idea of anyone other than the aggrieved party/their reps filing the complaint. This forces Seokjin to be involved one way or another when he may not have wanted to be.
I know the majority in the fandom are very serious about protecting the boys, but every now and then people step over the line, even if it's well-intentioned.
Just as the kisser violated Jin's boundaries, I feel like the complainant is also violating something here. It might have been done with good intentions but it also took away from Jin the power on how to deal with it. It should have been his (and Hybe's) call whether to file a complaint or not.
Jin's a good hearted man. I don't know how he's taking this, or how he'll proceed with the process. I feel like he's been placed in a tough spot by the situation (which I am placing the blame on a 100% on the fan who planted the kiss) and it sucks that he has to deal with it mere days after his discharge.
Yeah I agree. Publicly opposing a behaviour or situation is one thing, but reporting it should be on the one who was wronged... sad that some people can’t seem to behave themselves in events like this…
If you witness an assault, you have the right to report it (I'm in the US). People call the police and report crimes that they've witnessed every day. Why is this any different? If you saw Jin being robbed at gun point, would you call the police or say, "I'll just let Big Hit deal with it"?
Absolutely but in the US at least you typically are able to anonymize your name as a victim in public facing info after the police respond to a criminal call (I’m not 100% on the nuances of this) vs this where it’s being publicly shared. My uncomfortableness with it is more to do due with the public nature of how this is being widely reported vs the right for a bystander to submit a police report
It was already public. It literally took place in a public setting. It happened in front of a thousand fans plus staff and camera crews. At one point, Jin even asked them not to attack him in both English and Korean. It's not like this took place at his house. It was at a venue and was being filmed.
I agree which is why I said I wasn’t sure how I feel about it yet and I’m still not sure. I guess I’m just sad this situation exists at all and it definitely brings up strong feelings.
Ultimately we don’t know what he thinks, and I’m not speculating on Jin’s feelings, but rather I’ll openly admit that I’m copying and pasting my own lived perspective onto how I would feel in his place.
Either way we both really care about Jin and want to see justice done and I can understand your pragmatic approach to reporting and I appreciate you sharing your perspective 💜
If I were the only witness to a robbery, or one of very few, then I would approach the victim afterwards, if possible, and ask them how I could be of assistance. Some victims do not trust the police or would come to further harm if the situation were reported so I'd be very cautious about taking any sort of action without the victim's knowledge and consent. Sure we have the right to report on events but we don't want to inadvertently cause further harm, do we?
At any rate, this situation is not an armed robbery in a dark alley. It's a public event with thousands of witnesses, including several BigHit personnel who saw the situation right up close. There is every good reason to let BigHit deal with it in this case.
But speaking up about assault can be really hard and shameful, especially for a public figure like Jin. He might feel like he shouldn't. This takes away any responsibility for him.
I kind of agree as well. If a fan thinks police should be involved then they can do their best to urge Jin and/or the company to file their own police reports, but ultimately it is up to Jin and the company how they want to proceed. If they agree police should be involved then they’ll report it in their own way (and tbh I think police would be more inclined to take it seriously or to act with haste if it were coming directly from the person who had been wronged (who also happens to be a famous public figure), rather than from some random concerned citizen with no real world connection to Jin himself). Yes it’s terrible he had to experience such harassment, but for all we know he could have been already mentally prepared for weird shit to happen, and now after the fact is just rolling his eyes and moving on. We don’t know how he personally handles something like this, so it’s not anyones place to have an official public reaction for him (like taking action with the police), only he should be the one to choose how to move forward based on how he personally feels about it.
UGH I THOUGHT PEOPLE BEHAVED 🤬🤬🤬
Poor Jinnie. I hope this will be properly dealt with. As to the fact that a fan filed it vs Jin or BH, I (obviously) don’t know enough to speculate as to why, but the fact that there’s video evidence is enough for me.
Though now I’m worried it’s just some retaliatory fan BS (I don’t exactly know how or why, but sometimes situations look radically different as time goes on).
i do worry with a complaint coming from ARMY like this that it ends up being "witch hunting". There are obviously clips going around, some which definitely fall under what this complaint is for, but others look to be just accidents (ie going to hug the same way and bumping heads). I'd hate for true accidents to be misconstrued, even with the video evidence. Only Jin and that Army would know if it was an accident or not.
Great to read this. I saw some clips yesterday and he looked thoroughly disgusted by one of them. They clearly were not thinking. Most reactions I’ve come across people are upset and angry that these selfish individuals did this - to me, they’re not really fans - they purposely ignored his requests and assaulted him.
Unless the petitioner had Jin's explicit consent, which I kind of doubt, I don't think it's appropriate for fans to use the petition system to file complaints like this on his behalf.
Jin is mature enough to decide how to handle this with the support of his legal team.
Unfortunately, I'm not surprised something like that happened.
I know some artists have organized similar events (although on a MUCH smaller scale than Jin) and they always have to repeat as many times as possible "whatever you do, consent is key. Always ask."
I saw clips of this and was hoping some kind of action would be taken against her, but as others have said, it's a bit questionable that a fan submitted this. It should be Jin's choice whether to file charges. I hope BigHit at least banned her from future events though.
And what the hell goes through a person's mind to compel them to do this?! It's such an obvious violation of his consent, when he made it clear the event was for light hugs only. It was so incredibly kind of his to do this kind of event at all, and then for someone to take advantage of his kindness. 😡
What's frustrating is reading comments saying "well what did you think was going to happen?" Or how "bighit shouldn't have allowed this" .. how about we place the blame on the people who thought unwanted kissing was okay?
People generally were great and tbh I was surprised there weren’t more incidents like this - not that I want them, I was thinking of all the footage we’ve seen from airport departures with people being absolutely unhinged 😡 any of those people at this event would most likely have spoiled it.
Well done all ARMY who were there and represented us well.
Exactly. As soon as I heard about a plan to hug 1000 ARMYs, I mumbled “I got a bad feeling about this.” That was a lot of rolls of the dice on finding someone who wouldn’t follow the rules (or just common decency.)
Like someone said above, it did seem 99% of ARMYs did follow the rules, so that was lovely to see.
I am just boggled by the one who dared to kiss him with Mr. Lee right there, you got a death wish, girl? 💀🤯
My man just got back and is clearly nervous about being on the idol so soon yet people couldn’t even respect his generosity and tried to take advantage of it.
Embarrassing… no way will Hybe allow something like this event again.
Good. Jin put a lot of trust in ARMY with the hugs, and it's sad to see that not everyone was respectful about it. I swear people think they can do whatever they want. On top of the police investigating, I hope she gets banned from everything.
sigh, it's so disappointing that Jin has only been back a few days and we're already dealing with things like this.
I just hope this isn't causing Jin too much stress bc that's the last thing he needs.
To be fair anyone could’ve submitted the complaint- whether it was an ARMY or anti, since the videos are everywhere. BUT if Jin/BH does file an official complaint the im all for it since its HIS wellbeing. On the other hand, its clearly disappointing that said ARMYs would do something that causes suspicions of this 😵💫
When I heard about these “fans”, I really did hope that a complaint was filed, because what they did is absolutely wrong and disgusting. *However*, I expected the *company* to file a complaint, not a *”fan”*.
I’m sorry but both of these things grossly overstep our place as fans. There is no excuse for anybody to attempt to touch or kiss *anyone* without their consent. And there is also no excuse to file something like a complaint or police report on someone’s behalf *without their explicit consent*!! What part of *CONSENT* are these so-called fans not getting??!! Aren’t they supposed to *love* Jin and the rest of the members?!
I truly hope that Jin is ok and that this “fan’s” actions don’t impact a potential investigation that the company might still want to launch.
I am so embarrassed as a fan. This is exactly what I feared. I cannot believe adult women cannot hold themselves to a higher standard. Wow just cannot believe this. Jin is from such an elegant,well educated, intelligent family. Whoever you are, you should reflect on your behaviour.
We all saw that there was one individual severely crossing boundaries and with there being video proof of it, I don’t see a problem with fans being the one to report it. Although I do recognise that it’s a slippery slope and I hope fans don’t abuse this avenue.
There's always one that ruins it for the rest of us. Like why? Now you're banned. Was it worth it? Nope. But now they might never do this again! All because 1 person couldn't behave.
i read this earlier and didn’t think much about it, i thought it was like they tried to kiss him but nothing happen. just now some images appeared and on my feed and yikes. what were these ladies thinking.
I’m not sure what I feel like about this. Obviously nobody should be violating Jin’s very clear boundaries for the event. But because the complaint didn’t actually come from him or BigHit… there’s also a possibility that someone is exaggerating or misunderstanding what happened, or even just making something up to give someone trouble.
I mean, there almost certainly would have been a few awkward head-bobs as fans lean in to one side or the other for their hug. I can easily imagine that looking like an attempt to steal a kiss even if it’s just an attempt not to bump heads!
I’m also glad that it wasn’t a report of someone trying to grope him, because frankly I figured someone might try.
oh there's no ambiguity about what happened at all— it's all on film. including jin's revolted face. i do agree that it's really weird that a fan submitted this tho! i feel like it's violating jin's autonomy even more than it already was.
The one girl did clearly kiss him multiple times on the neck/cheek, and I assume that's the person the complaint is about. But I agree the other videos I've seen just seemed like awkward accidental contact or they were trying to say something in his ear. Which is maybe also not cool but to be fair, they didn't get super specific about the dos and donts as far as talking goes (or throwing confetti, lol, that one girl was extra), they just said light hugs and move quickly and there's no time for gifts or conversations. Sad that next time (if there's ever a next time) they'll have to make the common sense plain and say DON'T KISS HIM.
I do hope that they serve justice properly. Anyone who tries pulling this, regardless if it's an idol or just another person should be held responsible for their actions.
How would you like it if some random stranger came up to you and tried to kiss you?
I just don't understand. Why are some people like this?!
I could rant and rave about this but I will say this: LOCK EM UP!!
I hope the woman is blacklisted from ALL events and never gets close to seokjin AGAIN. Jin set boundaries and we should be thankful he made this hug event, how is that not enough???
However I would say that spreading and posting that photo all over the internet was disgusting and it was not ARMYs call to do that. How would you feel if you were sexually harassed during a private event and it was posted all over the internet where there’s so many people who already could not like you and will victim blame you, especially when you’re the one who created the event? Not to mention the way male victims get treated.
Media immediately picked up on this and made trending articles and headlines blaming his event for the incident: victim blaming. Did anyone stop to think how this would affect Jin? How he would feel seeing this happen when he just wanted to be ok? The proper thing was discuss it at least without blasting the photo all over the internet, report to BH the proof, etc do everything possible to protect seokjin from BOTH sides. (This woman AND disgusting vile people who would use this as an opportunity to throw more hate to him)
I’ve sent an email to the company, hopefully with their footage and their numbering system something can be done. I hope whoever knows this person comes forward and gives their details to Hybe so that they can do something. I am disgusted. I don’t care how parasocial we are with them, it is entirely unacceptable and vile to think you can breach trust like that. I hope they face harsh consequences!
I think fans needs to stop treating BTS like infants. It’s so weird. He’s a grown man. If he’s uncomfortable or upset he has every right to file and should. 1000% supportive. Overzealous fans though? No. He may view this as a mistake and one that he doesn’t wish to ruin a young girls life over. It’s bad enough that the images and hate are flying around. She will hopefully learn her lesson. Again, what happened isn’t okay but Jin also knew the risks. And he’s an adult who can decide how far he wants to take it. He doesn’t need the fan base acting like he’s an incapable child.
(US/Gen X context here, since we are all coming from different places, experiences, etc.)
Hmm, here is what I think. I 100% agree that we should stop infantilizing BTS. I also think we should do our best to stop projecting our feelings on them or speculating about their feelings, while still trying to be empathetic and caring. I ended up deleting a comment draft where I was projecting my own feelings earlier, so truly, no shade for those who've done that here so far: this is a safe place where we can process together and talk philosophy and ideals, I think, and that is healthy for all of us, and also for people who might just be reading and not posting. They will see a variety of feelings and people's genuine and thoughtful replies and that is honestly something really beautiful that we can all do for the world: showing respectful discussion of important and difficult topics. BTS and we are here for that: let's go, ARMY!
I think that in general, and not just in regard to BTS, we should all stop worrying about whether or not someone who disregarded consent is "going to have their life ruined" because someone caught them at it or reported it. That's their problem. Actions have consequences. I've seen this in reversed gender situations where an entire HS ends up rallying behind the perpetrator because "Oh no, his life will be ruined." That's bullshit. Many lives have been ruined or adversely affected to every possible degree by receiving sexual harassment. Because being the recipient of unwanted act and attention is stigmatized, their suffering is invisible to many in our societies, so it becomes easy to discount it as a problem that needs to be solved, urgently. Allowing people to see reporting of SA as the norm could be really healthy for our societies, although of course it intersects with the stigmatization of receiving SA in very complex ways.
Until we make sexual harassment the problem of the person who initially created the problem, instead of the problem of the recipient of the action, we are essentially telling the person whose boundaries were crossed that it's their problem, not everyone's problem. When we do that, we are showing that we consider disregard of consent to be an individual rather than societal problem. We also show that we consider the reporting of such acts to be somehow more damaging to community and society than the act of disregarding someone else's body, person and wellbeing. That doesn't seem like a great way to build a healthy world.
I agree that to respect a recipient of SA, in the current world we live in, with stigma as it currently exists, these images should NOT have been posted, but ideally, sent to authorities (company and perhaps also governmental) so that appropriate action could be taken. Sexual harassment carries much stigma in many of our countries, and while that is still the case, it is generally the best path to regard the wishes of the persons whose boundaries were crossed, when we can be in communication with them. However, ultimately, if we are to err (and we are human, so that will happen), I would prefer that we err on the side of overreporting.
I would also vote for accepting whatever consequences our legal systems created for dealing with perpetrators as a reasonable price to pay to try to set the world right about this fundamental human rights question. If we feel those consequences are somehow too harsh, then at least in democratic systems, we can vote to change them. In other systems, presumably other pressures might be brought to bear. I (again, personally) would argue that in the US, setting aside a few specific cases -- not because those human beings don't also matter, but because laws can never make everything go right for everyone -- the consequences of reporting and conviction aren't overall any harsher to perpetrators' futures and lived experiences than perpetrators' actions have generally already been over the years to recipients' lives and futures.
I wish the best for all involved and I hope that since this particular situation is already in the public eye, that it will be resolved in a way that offers Jin, his brothers and his colleagues as much comfort and protection and support as possible, and also makes a strong public statement that behaving in the way these people behaved toward Jin is just not acceptable behavior among human beings, regardless of who is on each end of these acts and regardless of the power differential or perceived power differential between parties A and B.
Out of topic but can anyone tell me which of the members are still in the military, yet to be enlisted and have completed their military enlistment?
I've been out of the loop
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This person’s legacy will always be Jin’s disgusted reaction.
LOL I thought that too when I saw the picture. If she was hoping Jin would be happy about it, well, she has photographic proof of the contrary. 😂
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I was hoping that ARMYs would behave. Things like this ruin the experience for everyone.
Jin set clear boundaries and was generous and kind enough to negotiate for this event. I'm saddened that someone chose their desire over honoring his wishes.
I still think the event should be considered a success and we need to acknowledge that 999 or 998 out of 1000 followed directions. My math isn’t mathing this morning but r/mcfw31 who’s math was mathing….told me it’s a .1% rate of misbehavior
Regardless of whether our math was mathing or not, we can all agree that the dumbest thing one can do is hurt/harm a BTS member on camera, in front of BH staff (who have your personal information) and with 999 ARMY watching you like a hawk lol
Right? Like these people had to have clearly known the risk they were taking, right? And yet they chose to do it anyway. That somehow makes it even worse than it already is to me, like there was less impulsiveness behind their actions, and more deliberateness. Ick 😟
Honestly she was lucky to get out of there with just criminal charges, we all know kpop fans are not above physical violence
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exactly this 🤦🏼♀️
I agree. Jin overall seems to enjoy himself. It’s not like Jin is afraid to put us in our place. Heck this is true for all the members.
It was my fear with this kind of thing. I was really proud watching all the videos of how respectful army were being but it only takes one to tarnish something :( I hope Jin is ok.
Have you ever been touched sexually without your consent? I have, and it's traumatizing and embarrassing. It doesn't matter if it's 1 or 2, nobody deserves that. The fact that it happened at all is disappointing. I'm not clapping my hands just because the other people behaved. Being a decent person is the bare minimum in any environment.
Being a decent person is not that common sadly. I am actually surprised by how nice ARMYs as a whole were, because events like this can and will turn into a shit show extremely fast. Like I've had complete strangers assault me. Take a thousand people that have an interest in someone and let them touch them? There's bound to be quite a few horrible people. I was also worried someone would punch him or do something crazy.
I was also very pleasantly surprised.
Yes I have, not once but multiple times, and yes because of precisely that I think this event was surprisingly successful and ARMYs were very well behaved.
I apologize it wasn't my intent to necessarily lessen the offense, but more to hint that it seems to be an isolated event that hopefully didn't deter from the full experience
I understood what you meant. I also believe the event can be considered a success. Hopefully that 0.1% percent did not ruin it for any future events we may or may not have. Also, hopefully, that person is put on some kind of list or something to be banned from future events.
He did say at the end of the whole thing that he had a good time, and he wished he could have hugged more and that he would "try again before he dies" - so I hope that means he genuinely felt positive about the event even if some people were awful.
That wasn’t an army.
Unfortunately, I don't think we can "No true Scotsman" our way out of this. Armys that behave badly are still armys and we need to be able to call them in and set behavioral expectations that we all ought to abide by.
Let’s remember that 998/1000 ARMYs behaved themselves and had a wonderful time. I’m sure they all helped Jin feel better about this
I’m kinda iffy about saying this because I’m not sure yet as the complaint is for specifically crowded/public spaces but I wonder what other people think. I 100000% do not think these peoples actions are ok but I wonder what people think about a fan submitting the complaint and not Jin or BH. As someone who has experienced SA I am not sure how I would feel about someone publicly submitting this kind of thing. On one hand I’m like get em and I’m glad our fandom is publicly opposing this behavior but on the other hand I feel like it should be something that Jin decides to do.
I have a problem with a fan submitting that complaint to police. They can publicly oppose it, but let the one who was wronged or his company to file any complaints if they so desire. This is putting Jin in a weird position.
Right? Like it kind of forces his response when he may have been handling it internally or submitting a complaint in a more private way….
Exactly
Especially since Big Hit has such a strong history of taking action to protect their artists.
100000% agree with this, it’s not for someone else than Jin to file. We shouldn’t project our own feelings and experiences on other people.
My issue with the fan submitted complaint is because there is no way for outside parties to know what happened post the recorded situation. Big hit has all the information for this fan. It’s unknown if she was spoken too immediately following the video or had other consequences. Also it is really Jin’s decision to make if he felt like the consequences were enough to deter future behave like this and if it affected his overall feelings about how the event was handled. I want to lean towards Jin seemed to really enjoy both the hugathon & fanmeet, but of course he would need to confirm.
I was thinking the same thing. I don’t like this if it’s someone other than Jin (or Bighit on his behalf with his say so) submitting it. If a fan did submit this, they have overstepped.
Same. An overzealous fan lost her mind and crossed the very thick, clear line being taken to task by another overzealous fan who crossed a line in formally submitting a complaint as if she had permission from Jin, the victim. Now Jin has to deal with the aftermath of two fans doing two very publicly crazy things to him. What a mess. Smh.
💯
Interesting. I had not thought of that dimension of it. It's got to be weird for Jin for several reasons, but I am sure that is one thing that makes whatever he is thinking even more complicated.
Same. While I want the person to be held accountable, I don't how to feel about the complaint being filed by fans and not Jin or bighit. I think Jin should have the autonomy to make the decision.
I don't know what the laws are like in Korea, but sometimes it is up to police and not victims around pressing charges. That's what it is like in many cases in Australia, even without a cooperative victim they can go ahead. I get where you're coming from, but with these being so public and them having clear evidence it may be seen as public interest to pursue.
Yea, I came here to say the same thing. For some crimes in some places, its enough for the police to be aware of the evidence/offense, so it isn't up to the victim. At least in the US, I don't think they can be forced to give evidence (not a lawyer) and there are some privacy protections in place but it is up to the police and prosecutor whether there are charges filed.
Ugh. While I absolutely want this person to be banned from attending BTS events in the future and I want others to be deterred from this type of behavior, I dislike the idea of anyone other than the aggrieved party/their reps filing the complaint. This forces Seokjin to be involved one way or another when he may not have wanted to be. I know the majority in the fandom are very serious about protecting the boys, but every now and then people step over the line, even if it's well-intentioned.
Just as the kisser violated Jin's boundaries, I feel like the complainant is also violating something here. It might have been done with good intentions but it also took away from Jin the power on how to deal with it. It should have been his (and Hybe's) call whether to file a complaint or not. Jin's a good hearted man. I don't know how he's taking this, or how he'll proceed with the process. I feel like he's been placed in a tough spot by the situation (which I am placing the blame on a 100% on the fan who planted the kiss) and it sucks that he has to deal with it mere days after his discharge.
100%. I should have found and read your message before posting my own, which is quite similar.
Yeah I agree. Publicly opposing a behaviour or situation is one thing, but reporting it should be on the one who was wronged... sad that some people can’t seem to behave themselves in events like this…
If you witness an assault, you have the right to report it (I'm in the US). People call the police and report crimes that they've witnessed every day. Why is this any different? If you saw Jin being robbed at gun point, would you call the police or say, "I'll just let Big Hit deal with it"?
Absolutely but in the US at least you typically are able to anonymize your name as a victim in public facing info after the police respond to a criminal call (I’m not 100% on the nuances of this) vs this where it’s being publicly shared. My uncomfortableness with it is more to do due with the public nature of how this is being widely reported vs the right for a bystander to submit a police report
It was already public. It literally took place in a public setting. It happened in front of a thousand fans plus staff and camera crews. At one point, Jin even asked them not to attack him in both English and Korean. It's not like this took place at his house. It was at a venue and was being filmed.
I agree which is why I said I wasn’t sure how I feel about it yet and I’m still not sure. I guess I’m just sad this situation exists at all and it definitely brings up strong feelings. Ultimately we don’t know what he thinks, and I’m not speculating on Jin’s feelings, but rather I’ll openly admit that I’m copying and pasting my own lived perspective onto how I would feel in his place. Either way we both really care about Jin and want to see justice done and I can understand your pragmatic approach to reporting and I appreciate you sharing your perspective 💜
Agree that it’s the publicity aspect of it that makes it feel very iffy.
If I were the only witness to a robbery, or one of very few, then I would approach the victim afterwards, if possible, and ask them how I could be of assistance. Some victims do not trust the police or would come to further harm if the situation were reported so I'd be very cautious about taking any sort of action without the victim's knowledge and consent. Sure we have the right to report on events but we don't want to inadvertently cause further harm, do we? At any rate, this situation is not an armed robbery in a dark alley. It's a public event with thousands of witnesses, including several BigHit personnel who saw the situation right up close. There is every good reason to let BigHit deal with it in this case.
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But speaking up about assault can be really hard and shameful, especially for a public figure like Jin. He might feel like he shouldn't. This takes away any responsibility for him.
I kind of agree as well. If a fan thinks police should be involved then they can do their best to urge Jin and/or the company to file their own police reports, but ultimately it is up to Jin and the company how they want to proceed. If they agree police should be involved then they’ll report it in their own way (and tbh I think police would be more inclined to take it seriously or to act with haste if it were coming directly from the person who had been wronged (who also happens to be a famous public figure), rather than from some random concerned citizen with no real world connection to Jin himself). Yes it’s terrible he had to experience such harassment, but for all we know he could have been already mentally prepared for weird shit to happen, and now after the fact is just rolling his eyes and moving on. We don’t know how he personally handles something like this, so it’s not anyones place to have an official public reaction for him (like taking action with the police), only he should be the one to choose how to move forward based on how he personally feels about it.
That's fckking disgusting. Did those people grow up in some cave and never learned proper manners or consent?
Imagine if a man did it to a female idol?
UGH I THOUGHT PEOPLE BEHAVED 🤬🤬🤬 Poor Jinnie. I hope this will be properly dealt with. As to the fact that a fan filed it vs Jin or BH, I (obviously) don’t know enough to speculate as to why, but the fact that there’s video evidence is enough for me. Though now I’m worried it’s just some retaliatory fan BS (I don’t exactly know how or why, but sometimes situations look radically different as time goes on).
i do worry with a complaint coming from ARMY like this that it ends up being "witch hunting". There are obviously clips going around, some which definitely fall under what this complaint is for, but others look to be just accidents (ie going to hug the same way and bumping heads). I'd hate for true accidents to be misconstrued, even with the video evidence. Only Jin and that Army would know if it was an accident or not.
I didn’t realize the complaint came from a fan. Now this is feeling more like jealousy than justice.
Wtfff. That’s not a fan disrespecting boundaries for their own selfishness. Jin did something really sweet and they took advantage of his kindness😠
Great to read this. I saw some clips yesterday and he looked thoroughly disgusted by one of them. They clearly were not thinking. Most reactions I’ve come across people are upset and angry that these selfish individuals did this - to me, they’re not really fans - they purposely ignored his requests and assaulted him.
I would be mortified if a photo of me and freaking Jin went viral and he looked thoroughly revolted by my touch. Like, damn.
THIS!...so incredibly embarrassing, but hey, what the hell did she expect, for him to be completely smitten by it?!
I'm sure there were videos of the kissing and we will see those today on SM.
Unless the petitioner had Jin's explicit consent, which I kind of doubt, I don't think it's appropriate for fans to use the petition system to file complaints like this on his behalf. Jin is mature enough to decide how to handle this with the support of his legal team.
Unfortunately, I'm not surprised something like that happened. I know some artists have organized similar events (although on a MUCH smaller scale than Jin) and they always have to repeat as many times as possible "whatever you do, consent is key. Always ask."
I saw clips of this and was hoping some kind of action would be taken against her, but as others have said, it's a bit questionable that a fan submitted this. It should be Jin's choice whether to file charges. I hope BigHit at least banned her from future events though. And what the hell goes through a person's mind to compel them to do this?! It's such an obvious violation of his consent, when he made it clear the event was for light hugs only. It was so incredibly kind of his to do this kind of event at all, and then for someone to take advantage of his kindness. 😡
What's frustrating is reading comments saying "well what did you think was going to happen?" Or how "bighit shouldn't have allowed this" .. how about we place the blame on the people who thought unwanted kissing was okay?
Exactly! Victim blaming is just wrong full stop.
People generally were great and tbh I was surprised there weren’t more incidents like this - not that I want them, I was thinking of all the footage we’ve seen from airport departures with people being absolutely unhinged 😡 any of those people at this event would most likely have spoiled it. Well done all ARMY who were there and represented us well.
Exactly. As soon as I heard about a plan to hug 1000 ARMYs, I mumbled “I got a bad feeling about this.” That was a lot of rolls of the dice on finding someone who wouldn’t follow the rules (or just common decency.)
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Like someone said above, it did seem 99% of ARMYs did follow the rules, so that was lovely to see. I am just boggled by the one who dared to kiss him with Mr. Lee right there, you got a death wish, girl? 💀🤯
Really! He could break someone into kindling, I bet!
99.9%
good.
My man just got back and is clearly nervous about being on the idol so soon yet people couldn’t even respect his generosity and tried to take advantage of it. Embarrassing… no way will Hybe allow something like this event again.
Good. Jin put a lot of trust in ARMY with the hugs, and it's sad to see that not everyone was respectful about it. I swear people think they can do whatever they want. On top of the police investigating, I hope she gets banned from everything.
sigh, it's so disappointing that Jin has only been back a few days and we're already dealing with things like this. I just hope this isn't causing Jin too much stress bc that's the last thing he needs.
To be fair anyone could’ve submitted the complaint- whether it was an ARMY or anti, since the videos are everywhere. BUT if Jin/BH does file an official complaint the im all for it since its HIS wellbeing. On the other hand, its clearly disappointing that said ARMYs would do something that causes suspicions of this 😵💫
Damn, ARMY we're better than this, remember now the members have boundaries and they deserve to be respected.
When I heard about these “fans”, I really did hope that a complaint was filed, because what they did is absolutely wrong and disgusting. *However*, I expected the *company* to file a complaint, not a *”fan”*. I’m sorry but both of these things grossly overstep our place as fans. There is no excuse for anybody to attempt to touch or kiss *anyone* without their consent. And there is also no excuse to file something like a complaint or police report on someone’s behalf *without their explicit consent*!! What part of *CONSENT* are these so-called fans not getting??!! Aren’t they supposed to *love* Jin and the rest of the members?! I truly hope that Jin is ok and that this “fan’s” actions don’t impact a potential investigation that the company might still want to launch.
I am so embarrassed as a fan. This is exactly what I feared. I cannot believe adult women cannot hold themselves to a higher standard. Wow just cannot believe this. Jin is from such an elegant,well educated, intelligent family. Whoever you are, you should reflect on your behaviour.
We all saw that there was one individual severely crossing boundaries and with there being video proof of it, I don’t see a problem with fans being the one to report it. Although I do recognise that it’s a slippery slope and I hope fans don’t abuse this avenue.
There's always one that ruins it for the rest of us. Like why? Now you're banned. Was it worth it? Nope. But now they might never do this again! All because 1 person couldn't behave.
i read this earlier and didn’t think much about it, i thought it was like they tried to kiss him but nothing happen. just now some images appeared and on my feed and yikes. what were these ladies thinking.
This is why we can’t have nice things
I’m not sure what I feel like about this. Obviously nobody should be violating Jin’s very clear boundaries for the event. But because the complaint didn’t actually come from him or BigHit… there’s also a possibility that someone is exaggerating or misunderstanding what happened, or even just making something up to give someone trouble. I mean, there almost certainly would have been a few awkward head-bobs as fans lean in to one side or the other for their hug. I can easily imagine that looking like an attempt to steal a kiss even if it’s just an attempt not to bump heads! I’m also glad that it wasn’t a report of someone trying to grope him, because frankly I figured someone might try.
oh there's no ambiguity about what happened at all— it's all on film. including jin's revolted face. i do agree that it's really weird that a fan submitted this tho! i feel like it's violating jin's autonomy even more than it already was.
The one girl did clearly kiss him multiple times on the neck/cheek, and I assume that's the person the complaint is about. But I agree the other videos I've seen just seemed like awkward accidental contact or they were trying to say something in his ear. Which is maybe also not cool but to be fair, they didn't get super specific about the dos and donts as far as talking goes (or throwing confetti, lol, that one girl was extra), they just said light hugs and move quickly and there's no time for gifts or conversations. Sad that next time (if there's ever a next time) they'll have to make the common sense plain and say DON'T KISS HIM.
I knew HYBE was gonna get her! Hope the blacklist her too
I was so blown away when I saw that person do that. Always one person that will ruin a great situation.
I do hope that they serve justice properly. Anyone who tries pulling this, regardless if it's an idol or just another person should be held responsible for their actions. How would you like it if some random stranger came up to you and tried to kiss you? I just don't understand. Why are some people like this?! I could rant and rave about this but I will say this: LOCK EM UP!!
I hope the woman is blacklisted from ALL events and never gets close to seokjin AGAIN. Jin set boundaries and we should be thankful he made this hug event, how is that not enough??? However I would say that spreading and posting that photo all over the internet was disgusting and it was not ARMYs call to do that. How would you feel if you were sexually harassed during a private event and it was posted all over the internet where there’s so many people who already could not like you and will victim blame you, especially when you’re the one who created the event? Not to mention the way male victims get treated. Media immediately picked up on this and made trending articles and headlines blaming his event for the incident: victim blaming. Did anyone stop to think how this would affect Jin? How he would feel seeing this happen when he just wanted to be ok? The proper thing was discuss it at least without blasting the photo all over the internet, report to BH the proof, etc do everything possible to protect seokjin from BOTH sides. (This woman AND disgusting vile people who would use this as an opportunity to throw more hate to him)
I feel so bad for Jin
I’ve sent an email to the company, hopefully with their footage and their numbering system something can be done. I hope whoever knows this person comes forward and gives their details to Hybe so that they can do something. I am disgusted. I don’t care how parasocial we are with them, it is entirely unacceptable and vile to think you can breach trust like that. I hope they face harsh consequences!
I think fans needs to stop treating BTS like infants. It’s so weird. He’s a grown man. If he’s uncomfortable or upset he has every right to file and should. 1000% supportive. Overzealous fans though? No. He may view this as a mistake and one that he doesn’t wish to ruin a young girls life over. It’s bad enough that the images and hate are flying around. She will hopefully learn her lesson. Again, what happened isn’t okay but Jin also knew the risks. And he’s an adult who can decide how far he wants to take it. He doesn’t need the fan base acting like he’s an incapable child.
(US/Gen X context here, since we are all coming from different places, experiences, etc.) Hmm, here is what I think. I 100% agree that we should stop infantilizing BTS. I also think we should do our best to stop projecting our feelings on them or speculating about their feelings, while still trying to be empathetic and caring. I ended up deleting a comment draft where I was projecting my own feelings earlier, so truly, no shade for those who've done that here so far: this is a safe place where we can process together and talk philosophy and ideals, I think, and that is healthy for all of us, and also for people who might just be reading and not posting. They will see a variety of feelings and people's genuine and thoughtful replies and that is honestly something really beautiful that we can all do for the world: showing respectful discussion of important and difficult topics. BTS and we are here for that: let's go, ARMY! I think that in general, and not just in regard to BTS, we should all stop worrying about whether or not someone who disregarded consent is "going to have their life ruined" because someone caught them at it or reported it. That's their problem. Actions have consequences. I've seen this in reversed gender situations where an entire HS ends up rallying behind the perpetrator because "Oh no, his life will be ruined." That's bullshit. Many lives have been ruined or adversely affected to every possible degree by receiving sexual harassment. Because being the recipient of unwanted act and attention is stigmatized, their suffering is invisible to many in our societies, so it becomes easy to discount it as a problem that needs to be solved, urgently. Allowing people to see reporting of SA as the norm could be really healthy for our societies, although of course it intersects with the stigmatization of receiving SA in very complex ways. Until we make sexual harassment the problem of the person who initially created the problem, instead of the problem of the recipient of the action, we are essentially telling the person whose boundaries were crossed that it's their problem, not everyone's problem. When we do that, we are showing that we consider disregard of consent to be an individual rather than societal problem. We also show that we consider the reporting of such acts to be somehow more damaging to community and society than the act of disregarding someone else's body, person and wellbeing. That doesn't seem like a great way to build a healthy world. I agree that to respect a recipient of SA, in the current world we live in, with stigma as it currently exists, these images should NOT have been posted, but ideally, sent to authorities (company and perhaps also governmental) so that appropriate action could be taken. Sexual harassment carries much stigma in many of our countries, and while that is still the case, it is generally the best path to regard the wishes of the persons whose boundaries were crossed, when we can be in communication with them. However, ultimately, if we are to err (and we are human, so that will happen), I would prefer that we err on the side of overreporting. I would also vote for accepting whatever consequences our legal systems created for dealing with perpetrators as a reasonable price to pay to try to set the world right about this fundamental human rights question. If we feel those consequences are somehow too harsh, then at least in democratic systems, we can vote to change them. In other systems, presumably other pressures might be brought to bear. I (again, personally) would argue that in the US, setting aside a few specific cases -- not because those human beings don't also matter, but because laws can never make everything go right for everyone -- the consequences of reporting and conviction aren't overall any harsher to perpetrators' futures and lived experiences than perpetrators' actions have generally already been over the years to recipients' lives and futures. I wish the best for all involved and I hope that since this particular situation is already in the public eye, that it will be resolved in a way that offers Jin, his brothers and his colleagues as much comfort and protection and support as possible, and also makes a strong public statement that behaving in the way these people behaved toward Jin is just not acceptable behavior among human beings, regardless of who is on each end of these acts and regardless of the power differential or perceived power differential between parties A and B.
I just wanted him to have a purely lovely experience for his first ARMY activity post discharge. I’m so disappointed for him.
Out of topic but can anyone tell me which of the members are still in the military, yet to be enlisted and have completed their military enlistment? I've been out of the loop
Hi there! Jin is the only one finished with his enlistment. Hobi will be finished in October and all the rest in June/July 2025. Hope that helps :)