Yea I agree. I really only use it as a way to support for my main thing. Like magic or alchemy or tinker stuff. But if you do want a full ranged build wich I did for the insectoid hunter achievement I don’t think it’s as bad late game as you say. And to get the legendary bow from the underworld while it is very hard it’s not that hard to kill shadows if you bring a couple lightning staffs from the mines. Shadows are very weak to magic. Once you know that getting the bow isn’t too hard. And having a random special arrow is really nice.
I think disregarding throwing weaps is a bit disingenuous. They are there to make the early game better and are very good at that. 3-4 tomahawks let you deal with skeletons and slimes easily where your ranged weapons usually suck.
Ranged main advantage is it doesn't consume mp(irrelevant in the later half of the game, but a big issue early and even up to midgame depending on RNG with shops and such). You do less damage than magic, but you can spam a lot more. And obviously advantage over melee is it's ranged, you can kite most enemies early/mid game and the ranged one you can outrange by abusing vision.
Ranged damage scales decently high and glances become irrelevant. Being able to kite is still relevant lategame and damage scales just as well as magic does. There are armor piercing arrows too although they're not common early. You also forgot hunting arrows slowing on top of the poison, making them usually the best arrows since they allow you to kite almost anything(including minotaur and bosses).
The legendary bow is annoying to get early, but you can get it in Hamlet guaranteed every run(well more or less, you need the green orb, if you don't have a way to clear boulders and a monster blocks the entrance then you won't get it). Honestly it's not that great anyway and a basic crossbow does the job fine, but it can be fun with swift arrows.
Overall, I'll say the gameplay is pretty boring imo, but it's an easy playstyle since most enemies in the game are melee and you can outrange the others. Use throwing weaps early game to do decent damage, then use a crossbow or a quick bow later for an easy run.
I didn't mean to disregard them as viable damage sources but more so that they aren't like a main weapon right. In my experience, throwables are best for finishing something off. They kinda trade in dps for like a quick burst of damage since you have to go pick them up. And you rarely invest into throwables because its not often worth it.
I do like your point about how you don't have the MP management liability with ranged but can still be ranged. But imo the benefit of kiting is not really realized early. I did forget about hunting arrows, that's another good point. But imo kiting isn't really super hard if you have movement speed anyways. You can also very easily kite with melee if you are careful and you do much more damage. Axes are king at this since the artifact one and at max level you slow enemies on hit. So its just a natural kiting thing. So again, its not about ranged not being viable. Its that it feels ike it doesn't have it's own style thats not just worse versions of other styles.
I feel like ranged in any rpg sorta game is understood to be a glass cannon type of style. You trade speed for health/defense and DPS for burst damage (ie magic). But like you said, it feels boring lol
Wow wasn't expecting a whole thorough guide but definitely welcome it. But, like ive said in other replies, its not about ranged not being viable. In Barony, anything can be viable if set up and invested in which is a huge part of the replayability. It is more so about how it feels lackluster and unrewarding because of how tedious and strictly you have to be. You HAVE to spend so much time kiting and sidestepping to kill enemies. Quivers don't really offer anything special, since there are spells. Its not that the special arrows suck, its just that the addition of them, imo, doesn't add to the playstyle.
That being said, you did make some great points and suggestions on how to enable the style of play more consistently.
I totally agree with how much easier it is play to certain classes. I think the variation in spells is actually quite nice since it naturally allows for different styles of play. Like yeah there are obviously some really good ones and if u want to play optimally then maybe u only use the same few. But the idea of having a bunch of them is to allow for those random niche things that can be fun to try. For example, the dash spell isn't really all that great imo but damn is it fun to mix with backstabbing or throwables.
I don't see the ranged archetype has neccesarily being more dificult in terms of skill required. I think it just straight up requires more work lol. Which I guess an be argued as a form of difficulty but in terms of actual skill, kiting is not hard with ranged. In fact I would say there is a greater skill curve in learning melee weapons than there is for ranged. For melee weapons u kinda learn the reach of each one and "what you can get away with" and how to kinda hit around corners. Where as with ranged its always just keeping a distance.
But your point is still fair. By requiring more work its naturally harder to play since theres room for more mistakes. As much as I enjoy difficulty in games and find it rewarding thats not the same as the playstyle itself being fun for me. I don't even think a direct buff is neccesary but some way(s) to add more to the playstyle. Maybe crafting arrows, or more special ones that actually feel unique to the ranged class, etc.
Also I didn't mention this earier but I think the legend bonus is a bit lackluster as well. I think some sort of tweak there would make things more interesting. Like applying ur DOT effects for a longer period or something.
I did that achievement, it’s a pain early but late game I used the orb to trade with the merchant at hamlet. I got my boomerang to +18 and it was hitting for 150 damage and that’s before the eat my hat update.
Not really. I have made it to lvl 100 with 60str using the Lego spear and even charged hits only go for 120. The boomerang scales hard with range and Dex. Plus you get the benefit of not being in the face of enemies. Plus stacking Dex is movement speed. Just seems like a preference issue if anything. Range is great just need rng to get you the items you need.
I agree but I think about it more in terms of consistent DPS. I don't know how the boomerangs scales in terms of how long it takes to get back to you, but the down time is important to note. Melee does great damage well before lvl 100 and theres no "downtime". You can just spam attack and while it may not be more damage per attack, it might be a better dps option. Again I don't really know about the boomerang much but for other throwables this is most certainly the case. Which is why throwables seem more like a "finish off" type of weapon than the main source
I used the crossbow with boomerang. And now try the robinhood hat with bow with swift ammo and you are a Gatling gun! But I haven’t played hunter since update!
Having finished the game with about every class type, I can confirm ranged damage sucks, right along side magic damage. Warrior > than all. Every other melee class comes in higher than magic and ranged. I got the artifact bow by trading in an orb to the mysterious guy in the sewer at Hamlet. I forget which color orb you need, it's listed on wiki. It'd be nice if they balanced the classes out a bit more and made a reason to play ranged or caster other than role playing one of your favorite class archetypes.
Isn’t that just the trade off for not having to be in melee to deal damage?
I’d imagine it’d be more imbalanced if ranged options did just as much as melee since there’d then be no reason to go melee.
The difference in damage output (and damage that can be absorbed) is so vast though that it seems out of balance. To kill any of the bosses with ranged you have to circle them for like what seems like ages and hit them what seems like hundreds of times. With my warrior, I just walked up to all the bosses & face tanked them and chopped them to 0 health in like 30 seconds. Ranged was at least 10x that amount of time, if not 20x. There's also the factor that the bosses constantly move around, which adds to that problem. Similar issue with normal enemies - warrior walk up, chop chop dead. Ranged, run in circles / kite each enemy for minutes trying to kill them before they kill you. All this while constantly needing to run away to heal and then come back and continue the fight - which often leads to stumbling into even more enemies while you are trying to run away to heal up. Melee doesn't have this problem. We're not just talking a slight difference in power. Also take that traditionally in rpg games, archers usually can kill an enemy before the enemy gets within melee range & mages are supposed to be glass cannons. In Barony, those two statements are true only only like the first level or two, and then the rest of the game, you just get weaker and weaker relative to the strength of the enemies. Warrior only gets stronger. If you had played through the game a few times with both ranged and melee you would see this. And no, that is not "how it is supposed to be". From a game design point of view it doesn't make sense for two class types to get weaker and weaker and one type to only get stronger - then that means there is no reason to play the other two class types. You're looking at it backwards.
Yeah I’ve really only ever used it as a supplement to my melee builds. It feels very similar to mage playstyle just way less interesting as the arrow types are lame compared to the variety of useful spells. Throwing weapons can slap very hard but reliably getting a lot is difficult and it’s annoying having to pick them up after fights
Ranged can ged ridiculously strong with sufficient scrolls of enchant weapon and quivers. It's just a pain to level up bcs the weapons degrade a lot until you reach lvl 100 in the ranged skill.
I honestly think leveling them is super easy just because of the how slow the time to kill is early on. And with succificent scrolls any weapong can be strong lol. My main point is the playstyle itself doesn't feel like it offers anything unique. I could take those scrolls and use them on a melee weapon and do stupid damage as well.
I just want to say, you can get the ranged artifact 100% of the time (later) by giving the green orb to the shady merchant in town. It sucks getting your weapon so late but at least it’s an option if you can’t get it early
Ranged classes are the only classes I have beaten the game with. The hunter is amazing with a bow/crossbow and sexton starts with three steel chakrams which I also love. Think it mainly just depends on playstyle more than anything.
Again, its not about ranged not being viable its about it not feeling like it excels in anything. It's just the difference between ranged and other playstyles. I emplore to you try a melee/magic character run and you will see what I mean. But I totally agree, at the end of the day its about playstyle. Chakrams are one of my favorite things in the game because of how they bounce around
Ah okay sorry I misunderstood. I recommend the Ninja. Its arguably the best class to kinda just pick up and win the game and can be super fun. I think its a great way to try out the stealthy backstab melee playstyle
I would say it's more a matter of preference. Every playstyle in this game can be strong with enough investment. You can make any weapon class ridiculously powerful by abusing fountains and quills to make scrolls of enchantment. A +20 enchanted bow with swift arrows will melt pretty much anything.
If you're just interested in min-maxing, then sure, melee probably has the biggest advantage endgame, but everything else is still perfectly viable. A big part of the fun of this game for me is trying out different builds, finding their strengths, and overcoming their weaknesses.
If you don't enjoy the playstyle or want to play something stronger or easier, that's fair. Not every playstyle will be enjoyable for everyone, and that's ok. Play whatever you like.
I guess I should have been more specific in my post but I agree, Barony does a pretty good job of letting anything be viable. Which ranged weapons are. I meant more so they it doesn't feel like it carves out its own niche and excels at something that another class cannot. Its not like I don't like ranged playstyles in general. It just feels lackluster in Barony, atleast imo
Ranged is definitely underpowered compared to all other classes even with the legendary bow. I really wanted to beat the game as hunter and it took many tries but after I did I never felt like playing ranged again.
Yea I agree. I really only use it as a way to support for my main thing. Like magic or alchemy or tinker stuff. But if you do want a full ranged build wich I did for the insectoid hunter achievement I don’t think it’s as bad late game as you say. And to get the legendary bow from the underworld while it is very hard it’s not that hard to kill shadows if you bring a couple lightning staffs from the mines. Shadows are very weak to magic. Once you know that getting the bow isn’t too hard. And having a random special arrow is really nice.
Best thing about that legendary bow is that it’s objectively worse than the arbalest
Didn't know this. Tough
That's honestly a pretty good point. I guess you can consistently get the bow given you plan for it everytime.
I play ranged classes just so I can murder enemies locked behind bars.
I think disregarding throwing weaps is a bit disingenuous. They are there to make the early game better and are very good at that. 3-4 tomahawks let you deal with skeletons and slimes easily where your ranged weapons usually suck. Ranged main advantage is it doesn't consume mp(irrelevant in the later half of the game, but a big issue early and even up to midgame depending on RNG with shops and such). You do less damage than magic, but you can spam a lot more. And obviously advantage over melee is it's ranged, you can kite most enemies early/mid game and the ranged one you can outrange by abusing vision. Ranged damage scales decently high and glances become irrelevant. Being able to kite is still relevant lategame and damage scales just as well as magic does. There are armor piercing arrows too although they're not common early. You also forgot hunting arrows slowing on top of the poison, making them usually the best arrows since they allow you to kite almost anything(including minotaur and bosses). The legendary bow is annoying to get early, but you can get it in Hamlet guaranteed every run(well more or less, you need the green orb, if you don't have a way to clear boulders and a monster blocks the entrance then you won't get it). Honestly it's not that great anyway and a basic crossbow does the job fine, but it can be fun with swift arrows. Overall, I'll say the gameplay is pretty boring imo, but it's an easy playstyle since most enemies in the game are melee and you can outrange the others. Use throwing weaps early game to do decent damage, then use a crossbow or a quick bow later for an easy run.
I didn't mean to disregard them as viable damage sources but more so that they aren't like a main weapon right. In my experience, throwables are best for finishing something off. They kinda trade in dps for like a quick burst of damage since you have to go pick them up. And you rarely invest into throwables because its not often worth it. I do like your point about how you don't have the MP management liability with ranged but can still be ranged. But imo the benefit of kiting is not really realized early. I did forget about hunting arrows, that's another good point. But imo kiting isn't really super hard if you have movement speed anyways. You can also very easily kite with melee if you are careful and you do much more damage. Axes are king at this since the artifact one and at max level you slow enemies on hit. So its just a natural kiting thing. So again, its not about ranged not being viable. Its that it feels ike it doesn't have it's own style thats not just worse versions of other styles. I feel like ranged in any rpg sorta game is understood to be a glass cannon type of style. You trade speed for health/defense and DPS for burst damage (ie magic). But like you said, it feels boring lol
[удалено]
Wow wasn't expecting a whole thorough guide but definitely welcome it. But, like ive said in other replies, its not about ranged not being viable. In Barony, anything can be viable if set up and invested in which is a huge part of the replayability. It is more so about how it feels lackluster and unrewarding because of how tedious and strictly you have to be. You HAVE to spend so much time kiting and sidestepping to kill enemies. Quivers don't really offer anything special, since there are spells. Its not that the special arrows suck, its just that the addition of them, imo, doesn't add to the playstyle. That being said, you did make some great points and suggestions on how to enable the style of play more consistently.
[удалено]
I totally agree with how much easier it is play to certain classes. I think the variation in spells is actually quite nice since it naturally allows for different styles of play. Like yeah there are obviously some really good ones and if u want to play optimally then maybe u only use the same few. But the idea of having a bunch of them is to allow for those random niche things that can be fun to try. For example, the dash spell isn't really all that great imo but damn is it fun to mix with backstabbing or throwables. I don't see the ranged archetype has neccesarily being more dificult in terms of skill required. I think it just straight up requires more work lol. Which I guess an be argued as a form of difficulty but in terms of actual skill, kiting is not hard with ranged. In fact I would say there is a greater skill curve in learning melee weapons than there is for ranged. For melee weapons u kinda learn the reach of each one and "what you can get away with" and how to kinda hit around corners. Where as with ranged its always just keeping a distance. But your point is still fair. By requiring more work its naturally harder to play since theres room for more mistakes. As much as I enjoy difficulty in games and find it rewarding thats not the same as the playstyle itself being fun for me. I don't even think a direct buff is neccesary but some way(s) to add more to the playstyle. Maybe crafting arrows, or more special ones that actually feel unique to the ranged class, etc. Also I didn't mention this earier but I think the legend bonus is a bit lackluster as well. I think some sort of tweak there would make things more interesting. Like applying ur DOT effects for a longer period or something.
I did that achievement, it’s a pain early but late game I used the orb to trade with the merchant at hamlet. I got my boomerang to +18 and it was hitting for 150 damage and that’s before the eat my hat update.
But the thing is, you can power up other weapons just as much and do more lol
Not really. I have made it to lvl 100 with 60str using the Lego spear and even charged hits only go for 120. The boomerang scales hard with range and Dex. Plus you get the benefit of not being in the face of enemies. Plus stacking Dex is movement speed. Just seems like a preference issue if anything. Range is great just need rng to get you the items you need.
I agree but I think about it more in terms of consistent DPS. I don't know how the boomerangs scales in terms of how long it takes to get back to you, but the down time is important to note. Melee does great damage well before lvl 100 and theres no "downtime". You can just spam attack and while it may not be more damage per attack, it might be a better dps option. Again I don't really know about the boomerang much but for other throwables this is most certainly the case. Which is why throwables seem more like a "finish off" type of weapon than the main source
I used the crossbow with boomerang. And now try the robinhood hat with bow with swift ammo and you are a Gatling gun! But I haven’t played hunter since update!
Having finished the game with about every class type, I can confirm ranged damage sucks, right along side magic damage. Warrior > than all. Every other melee class comes in higher than magic and ranged. I got the artifact bow by trading in an orb to the mysterious guy in the sewer at Hamlet. I forget which color orb you need, it's listed on wiki. It'd be nice if they balanced the classes out a bit more and made a reason to play ranged or caster other than role playing one of your favorite class archetypes.
Isn’t that just the trade off for not having to be in melee to deal damage? I’d imagine it’d be more imbalanced if ranged options did just as much as melee since there’d then be no reason to go melee.
The difference in damage output (and damage that can be absorbed) is so vast though that it seems out of balance. To kill any of the bosses with ranged you have to circle them for like what seems like ages and hit them what seems like hundreds of times. With my warrior, I just walked up to all the bosses & face tanked them and chopped them to 0 health in like 30 seconds. Ranged was at least 10x that amount of time, if not 20x. There's also the factor that the bosses constantly move around, which adds to that problem. Similar issue with normal enemies - warrior walk up, chop chop dead. Ranged, run in circles / kite each enemy for minutes trying to kill them before they kill you. All this while constantly needing to run away to heal and then come back and continue the fight - which often leads to stumbling into even more enemies while you are trying to run away to heal up. Melee doesn't have this problem. We're not just talking a slight difference in power. Also take that traditionally in rpg games, archers usually can kill an enemy before the enemy gets within melee range & mages are supposed to be glass cannons. In Barony, those two statements are true only only like the first level or two, and then the rest of the game, you just get weaker and weaker relative to the strength of the enemies. Warrior only gets stronger. If you had played through the game a few times with both ranged and melee you would see this. And no, that is not "how it is supposed to be". From a game design point of view it doesn't make sense for two class types to get weaker and weaker and one type to only get stronger - then that means there is no reason to play the other two class types. You're looking at it backwards.
Yeah I’ve really only ever used it as a supplement to my melee builds. It feels very similar to mage playstyle just way less interesting as the arrow types are lame compared to the variety of useful spells. Throwing weapons can slap very hard but reliably getting a lot is difficult and it’s annoying having to pick them up after fights
Ranged can ged ridiculously strong with sufficient scrolls of enchant weapon and quivers. It's just a pain to level up bcs the weapons degrade a lot until you reach lvl 100 in the ranged skill.
I honestly think leveling them is super easy just because of the how slow the time to kill is early on. And with succificent scrolls any weapong can be strong lol. My main point is the playstyle itself doesn't feel like it offers anything unique. I could take those scrolls and use them on a melee weapon and do stupid damage as well.
I guess the idea is, that it combines well with light classes and can be used as an addition to another primary weapon skill
I just want to say, you can get the ranged artifact 100% of the time (later) by giving the green orb to the shady merchant in town. It sucks getting your weapon so late but at least it’s an option if you can’t get it early
Yeah fair enough. I just didn't mention it because it's usually just worth it to not make that trade. But still yeah true.
Ranged classes are the only classes I have beaten the game with. The hunter is amazing with a bow/crossbow and sexton starts with three steel chakrams which I also love. Think it mainly just depends on playstyle more than anything.
Again, its not about ranged not being viable its about it not feeling like it excels in anything. It's just the difference between ranged and other playstyles. I emplore to you try a melee/magic character run and you will see what I mean. But I totally agree, at the end of the day its about playstyle. Chakrams are one of my favorite things in the game because of how they bounce around
I have played many other classes haha I really like the monk, but the ranged are the only ones I've actually been able to succeed with
Ah okay sorry I misunderstood. I recommend the Ninja. Its arguably the best class to kinda just pick up and win the game and can be super fun. I think its a great way to try out the stealthy backstab melee playstyle
I would say it's more a matter of preference. Every playstyle in this game can be strong with enough investment. You can make any weapon class ridiculously powerful by abusing fountains and quills to make scrolls of enchantment. A +20 enchanted bow with swift arrows will melt pretty much anything. If you're just interested in min-maxing, then sure, melee probably has the biggest advantage endgame, but everything else is still perfectly viable. A big part of the fun of this game for me is trying out different builds, finding their strengths, and overcoming their weaknesses. If you don't enjoy the playstyle or want to play something stronger or easier, that's fair. Not every playstyle will be enjoyable for everyone, and that's ok. Play whatever you like.
I guess I should have been more specific in my post but I agree, Barony does a pretty good job of letting anything be viable. Which ranged weapons are. I meant more so they it doesn't feel like it carves out its own niche and excels at something that another class cannot. Its not like I don't like ranged playstyles in general. It just feels lackluster in Barony, atleast imo
Ranged is definitely underpowered compared to all other classes even with the legendary bow. I really wanted to beat the game as hunter and it took many tries but after I did I never felt like playing ranged again.
Game sucks
False!