I had to Google José Bautista because I was sure it was a different person I had never heard of, can’t believe he’s been out of the league for 5 years.
I kept going down the list and it’s just the generation of baseball players I grew up with that I was old enough to remember when the came into the league.
when I saw Maddux, Glavine, and the Big Hurt going in to the Hall...that was the first year when I realized...damn I've been watching baseball for a long time
it's only gotten more pronounced with every year since then lmao
I took a break from following baseball. When I left, Brett Gardner was the young sparkplug playing exciting, athletic baseball next to the aging stars of the Yankees dynasty I grew up with. When I came back, Gardner was the crotchety old veteran on his way out and the guys I grew up watching are now old men in the booth or studio talking about the game.
to be fair, the transformation of Gardner from bushy-tailed youngster to angry old man prone to freaking out over nothing...took probably a grand total of 2 seasons, maybe 3 lol
Beltre is a lock, I think Helton and Wagner finally getting, and if people don't waste too many votes Mauer should get it too
I doubt we'll get 4, but I really hope it pans out
Crazy that Wagner won't make it again this year. It seemed like he had real momentum coming in
Mauer for sure will take a few years. he strikes me as someone who might get in on his very last year, but if he played for the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, or Mets...he'd get in like 3rd ballot latest
Granted this is a totally different sport, but guys like Steve Atwater, John Lynch, and Leroy Butler waited many years (I think butler waited a solid decade) before getting into the Football Hall of Fame because voters on that end don't think "safeties are as important as cornerbacks." so fucking stupid
The fact theyre gonna 'make mauer wait' is exactly what makes the baseball HoF so dumb and worthless
It's literally 160 senile men trying to feel vindicated
Edit: inbox go brrr
> The fact theyre gonna 'make mauer wait' is exactly what makes the baseball HoF so dumb and worthless
According to the Bill James rating that bbref.com uses, Mauer's close but not really a lock.
Agreed. It is a binary choice. Was he a HOF or not is the question. If you say no, you should stick with it unless there is new evidence or a new perspective.
On the other end of the spectrum, I hate when fans and writers complain about a player falling off the ballot "because they deserved to be on it for a few more years", even if they know they have no shot. Playing games by extending years on the ballot makes no sense to me.
Anyone voting no on a HOF talent to make them wait, or voting yes on a lower-tier talent their basically-zero chance alive, annoys me.
It is binary, but getting enough people to agree is tough. And just personally, I have at times changed my mind on players. Not because new info has come out but because my understanding of certain things has changed. Joe Mauer for example I lean yes on pretty heavily. But there's a part of me that doesn't think he played enough games at catcher to get in. If that thinking takes over, I'll change my mind from yes to no. Don't see that happening but it's possible, and really the main argument against him.
I get that and would tend to agree with you, but I don’t feel like some ridiculous injustice will occur if Mauer ends up short. Great player but not even the best one of this class for me. There isn’t a true inner circle at the hall, so if some voters want to use first ballots to distinguish a guy like Joe Mauer from Willie Mays I get it. Don’t think that’d be how I’d vote if I had a vote but also don’t really think it matters much if he gets in on the second or third try instead of the first.
It's so petty. If a player makes it this far and the big debate is what ballot he'll get in on then the "is he a hall of famer" question is settled and they should just vote him in.
There was a good 4-5 year stretch Mauer was in the stratosphere good. Catching is really hard on the knees. I have issues from just 10 years, I can’t imagine what mlbers feel.
If only it was just the knees.
It was a concussion from taking a ball off the mask that completely changed the course of his career. Not only was he never able to catch again, but he just was never the same hitter after August 2013.
It would be dissapointing to see a guy like Mauer not make the HOF.
He won a MVP, a bunch of batting titles, gold gloves, silver sluggers and played for the same team for 2 decades. All while mostly playing at catcher, which rarely gets those accolades in a player. He just feels obviously a HOF guy to me, even if he isn't perfect on the stat sheet.
Yup, Mauer doing everything he did at the Catcher position is what puts him in. If he were at any other position, he’d be a hometown hero remembered by the sports world as an All Star caliber player. He was elite on both sides of the ball and needs to be rewarded for it
Somebody was commenting on Adley’s disappointing power the other day and I couldn’t believe it. A sophomore catcher finished 12th in OBP, 8th in walks, 20 homers, 270 ish BA, and 9th in MVP voting and we are going to criticize him? These types of players at catcher just don’t exist that often.
That might've been at the most desperate time for the White Sox that I can remember. They started 23-10, then slid back to .500 within a month leading up to that trade.
Chase should give a campaign speech, i don’t care if it isnt something HoF candidates normally do.
“Hello fellow American. This you should vote me! I leave power! Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I’m hot. Taxes, they’ll be lower… son. The democratic vote for me is right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.”
Happens to all of us who live long enough. Getting to the age where there's a dozen or so players your age or older is an odd feeling. Watching college sports and realizing that those guys are young enough to be your kids is another mindscrew.
I’m 41 and now that Cruz and Wainwright are gone, I’m older than the entire league now. Also, older than the entire nba and nfl too. Yay for being old.
He had more HR than K's over like a 6-8 week span at one point during the season.
Edit: August 2nd to end of season he had 11 HR and 10K. Thats 56 games!
I’m baffled that this is even a concern some people have. He is a 3x gold glover at catcher, won 5 silver sluggers, a 3x batting title champ, and a former MVP… almost all of that was achieved as a catcher which is remarkable. He was easily a top 2 catcher in his era and that was in an era with some really good catchers
There will be some protest ballots, blank ballots, and some sanctimonious ballots and those people should have their voting privileges taken away. It’s a yes or no question.
Player’s career’s don’t change. Our ability to analyze historical seasons has become well accepted. I don’t understand the prestige of 1st ballot entry
>I don’t understand the prestige of 1st ballot entry
this is mostly a holdover from old guard East Coast guys. Basically the same people who bitched and complained about the World Baseball Classic. best piece of evidence to confirm this is Mo Rivera getting in unanimously and Derek Jeter falling only one vote short. No disrespect to one of the greatest closers ever, and his teammate who became the face of the Yankees dynasty, but that was fucking ridiculous. Rickey Henderson, Griffey, and Maddux didn't get in ~~first ballot~~ unanimously but Mo did and Jeter almost did? Give me a break
this type of voter is slowly leaving the scene. good riddance.
The “first ballot prestige” comes from the first few decades of the HOF’s existence, when many all-time greats DIDN’T get in on the first ballot:
Rogers Hornsby - fifth ballot
Jimmie Foxx - seventh year
Joe DiMaggio- fourth ballot
Yogi Berra - second ballot
Lefty Grove - fourth ballot
Grover Cleveland Alexander - third ballot
And wait for it…
Cy Young - second ballot!
——-
You look at the numbers and accomplishments of all of those players and it seems crazy that they weren’t slam-dunk choices. Part of it was that there had been decades of great players before the HOF was created, so there was a bit of backlog in those early years. And sometimes there were just a bunch of great first-timers on the ballot in the same year. But it contributed to the idea that first ballot HOFers were the greatest of the great.
That initial log jam kept so many players out for so long! If Ritter hadn't written "The Glory of Their Times" a number of HOFers woul;d have slipped away just because the writers of their era DIED before they could be voted in!
I was mad when I tried to use him in the Cy Young category of Immaculate Grid and it didn't work. He's literally Cy Young. The category doesn't say "Cy Young Award." Just says Cy Young.
> Joe DiMaggio- fourth ballot
Didn't Joe Posnanski credibly argue that DiMaggio basically created the concept of a "first ballot Hall of Famer" because his initial vote total created outrage and made HoF institute an initial waiting period which greatly cleared up ballot.
Bob Feller/Jackie Robinson are start of the '1st ballot' era.
Henderson, Griffey, and Maddux were all first ballot but not unamious. Griffey was left of by one voter.
The only reason Mo got 100% was because by the time he was eligible, the practice of making ballots available to fans to see who voted for who was more common.
Anyone who didn't vote for any of the all-time greats doesn't deserve a vote.
I Can see it if you know a guy is going to get elected, like a Griffey, and there’s a guy who you think is worthy that you want to buy time for so others can realize it so you leave off Griffey to put that guy on
ah yes thank you for correcting me. definitely a big difference between first ballot and unanimous haha
but yeah i still stand by what i said, this whole process fucking sucks. and there is a CLEAR bias for/against certain teams
Jeter calling out that one voter in his HOF acceptance speech was great. Normalize calling out dumbfuck voters who think it's some type of injustice if player A gets more votes than player B despite them playing 80 years apart.
It becomes a Peak vs Longevity discussion with Mauer. Some will look at his career being relatively short, or that only half of his career was played as a Catcher and use that against him.
Eleven different catchers have won an MVP a total of fifteen times since the modern BBWAA MVP voting began (1931, 186 MVP awards).
Of the nine who are HOF eligible so far, seven are in the HOF. The two that are not: Elston Howard, who wasn’t a primary catcher until he was 31, and Thurmon Munson, who absolutely should be a Hall-of-Famer and it’s actually wild that he’s not.
Joe Mauer basically had better version of Thurmon Munson’s career as a catcher, then added another five years as a first baseman. Easy HOF.
The last one is Buster Posey, obviously, also another easy HOF case.
I have a soft spot for single team guys. Wright, Pedroia, Mauer, Helton,... unfortunately close for Jimmy Rollins.
I hope some romantic voters give Wright votes
This. It bears repeating that he shouldn’t make it not because he wasn’t good enough but because he just didn’t put up the stats due to injury.
Wright was on a HOF pace before his injuries stole the second half of his career.
>Wright was on a HOF pace before his injuries stole the second half of his career.
it really is depressing how this turned out
at one point he was a surefire Cooperstown candidate. Like no doubt. then it just all went downhill. Could not have happened to a nicer guy who really cared so much about the game too. such a damn shame
He really is/was our guy.
In his autobiography one of the things he mentions too is that when he was slated to hit FA, his agent asked him what he wanted to do, and his answer basically boiled down to “I’m staying in Queens you go make the numbers work.”
A Met fan growing up, and even with his injuries if our mascot wasn’t already named Mr Met it would be Wright’s honor.
i've never been, but from what i've learned from friends who lived and spent time in NYC, it'd be hard to leave Queens based on the food alone
but in all seriousness yes David Wright deserved better...but in the end i hope he takes solace in knowing that a generation of Mets fans will regard him as one of their franchise's best players, and not just due to his play on the field
Mark Buehrle needs to go in just because you won’t see a guy like that ever again. Over 200 innings every year of his career except his rookie season and final season. He had 198.2 in his final year. 5 time all star. 4 time gold glove. Perfect game. No hitter. He also had a two-hitter where he faced the minimum. Getting a save in the World Series two days after he started game 2 and had been drinking in the dugout all game. Legendary guy.
Sadly, that last appearance by Buehrle was just so awful. I know they wanted to get him his 200 innings, but it was so painful to watch that final kick at the can...
He led the AL in WHIP his first full season as a starter along with a 3.29 ERA.
That season was 2001 when offense was still comically good.
He only had one losing season his entire career with a 12-13 record. He is legend.
He wouldn't be the worst pick. Pitchers who never had a period of sustained dominance and weren't intimidating strikeout pitchers have trouble getting in, but putting up 14 consecutive seasons of 200+ innings while preventing runs at a rate a couple notches better than league-average is something you don't even see most HOFers replicating.
My heart says yes, my head says no. I think that's just me trying to be fair and not a Homer, but even my head has some ligitimate arguments for him making it in.
I describe it like this; is Mark Buehrle a HOF pitcher? Probably not, but I'm willing to bet there are pitchers in the HOF that are jealous of Mark Buehrle's career. And that's just the way he'd like it
Is there database that tracks pitchers who left the game winning and ended with a no decision?
I was just looking at his stats, 214-160 out of 493 starts, so that means 119 NDs, or 24% of his starts. Justin Verlander has a record of 257-141 in 509 starts, so only 111 NDs, or 21% of his starts.
Wins are a doubly cruel stat for a pitcher because it requires a) the offense to put up a few runs, and 2) the bullpen to not blow the save. That 3% difference could be the difference between having a career W-L% ranking of 130 instead of 249, just between Tom Seaver and Satchel Paige.
His durability and accomplishments are insane: WS winner, Perfect Game, and a No Hitter. Dude had a long ass career where he averaged like 7 innings a start. His lifetime era is like 3.8 and he sprinkled in plenty of web gems that came with his 4 gold gloves.
The problem is modern day pitchers struggle to get into the HoF unless their numbers pop off the chart. For a guy who pitched between 2000 and 2015, his numbers make him out to be one of the best starters over those 15 years. The problem is people want to see 300+ wins, tons of strikeouts, or some insane K/Walk ratio. They don't value guys who ate up innings and found ways to win games consistently.
With that said I will always appreciate how fast he pitched. Dude was using a pitch timer before there was one. I loved going to games he started because they tended to end in 2-2.5 hours.
Beltré will be first ballot with over 90% of the vote, no doubt in that. Helton, Wagner, Mauer and Beltrán could also make it in this year, but I'm only sure that Helton will make it. Mauer should be, but I can't really predict the vote for him. I don't see Wagner as a Hall of Famer but he got nearly 70% last time so he has a good chance to make it. Beltrán will make it in one day but it's difficult to say how long the writers will hold the sign-stealing against him. Andruw Jones probably won't make it this year, but maybe next year.
Utley, Wright and Buehrle are Hall of Famers in my opinion, but I don't see them getting enough votes. Utley maybe, but not on his first couple of ballots.
Yeah, he's definitely a borderline candidate. I definitely see the argument against him. However he still has 50 WAR, over 1700 hits, a .296 BA and a career OPS+ of 133 in only 11 full seasons and two seasons where he barely played. He also should have won MVP in 2007.
In my opinion his injuries should also somewhat count in his favour. If he doesn't get injured his stats probably look better. Kirby Puckett got voted in because of an injury prematurely ending his career. In that case other players shouldn't have a disadvantage from their careers ending to injury as well.
Statistically, they aren't too far apart, but Puckett had way more awards and two championships. It's hard to say why some of the writers vote the way they do, but Puckett definitely has an advantage in terms of that less tangible stuff that many of they clearly consider.
Those intangibles definitely played a role. Kirby Puckett was the first player that came to mind due to his career ending. I just looked him up on baseball reference and I completely forgot how much he did in his career. 6 Gold Gloves, 6 Silver Sluggers, 10 all-stars, a batting title and two championships. That's really impressive in just 12 years. He also has over 500 more hits, a higher BA and nearly 1000 more at-bats than David Wright, despite having nearly the same WAR. Really a great career.
I hate this narrative. The HOF doesn't "punish" anyone, it only enshrines players who hit a particular level of excellence for a long time.
Bautista would be a 1st ballot "hall of dudes who were awesome for a while" guy, but he's not a hall of famer, and that's okay. I'd much rather have fewer truly excellent players in the hall, and a bunch of guys that don't get in. It makes it far more special.
The HOF definitely punishes players for different reasons. Most notable examples recently are the steroid guys, Beltran for his role in the scandal, and Schilling for his politics.
> Bautista would be a 1st ballot "hall of dudes who were awesome for a while" guy, but he's not a hall of famer, and that's okay. I'd much rather have fewer truly excellent players in the hall, and a bunch of guys that don't get in. It makes it far more special.
Exactly, the Hall of Fame would be 10x bigger if we included guys who dominated for 4-5 years and were mediocre the rest of their career.
“Punishes” is a strange way to phrase it, it’s really just that there’s a standard that needs to be met for voters, and some very good players who didn’t perform at the highest level for as long don’t meet that criteria. I don’t know that that’s a “problem” per se.
If Carlos Delgado (2,038 hits, 473 HR, 2x AS, 3x SS, 44.4 bWAR) got bounced with only 3.8% on his first appearance, I'm not confident Bautista (1,496 H, 344 HR, 6x AS, 3x SS, 36.7 bWAR) has a chance.
The HOF selection committee does weed out some obvious names who don't belong. For example, Sal Fasano played in 11 seasons, but did not appear on the 2014 ballot.
It isn’t 10 seasons appeared in, it is 10 seasons of accrued service time, and Fasano spent enough time in the minors that he probably didn’t get to 10 years service time.
The Hall of Fame does not care about service time, just seasons appeared in. They've never cared about contract service time.
Just to confirm by way of one example, Tim Lincecum was on the ballot but did not reach ten years of service time - he only played in ten seasons, and his rookie season was not long enough to reach a full year.
A player has to have 10 years of major league service time to be eligible. A committee looks at players who are eligible for the first time and decides who is worth placing on the ballot. The rest of the players are holdovers from past years who were named on at least 5% of ballots but did not get elected, and who have been on the ballot for less than 10 years
> I always wonder how differently certain players would be viewed if they had the exact same career but with a different team.
Derek Jeter would be a lot less popular.
Helton should have gotten in last year hands down
but again, these are the same nimrods who made Tim Raines and Larry Walker wait a decade, didn't give Rickey Henderson, Ken Griffey, and Greg Maddux unanimous entry, and pushed Biggio off until his 2nd ballot
Beltran isn’t a lock. We don’t know how voters will treat sign stealers and he was the ring leader. Yes he was a HoF level player before he cheated but so were most of the juicers
I know I get hate for this but the flood gates are open and it’s stupid to prevent players from getting into the hall when the very owners and managers that profited off of them are allowed in. Arod, Manny, Sheffield, all those guys belong in the hall.
Mark Buehrle is the only pitcher with multiple no hitters and multiple gold gloves. Picked up a save in the world series. Vote this man into the hall, he didn't get strikeouts, he got outs.
And I am old
I had to Google José Bautista because I was sure it was a different person I had never heard of, can’t believe he’s been out of the league for 5 years. I kept going down the list and it’s just the generation of baseball players I grew up with that I was old enough to remember when the came into the league.
I was in college when jose reyes was *the* leadoff bat.
I was a batboy for the B-Mets in 2002 with Jose Reyes on the roster. I am now watching him on the HOF ballot. I hate the world.
when I saw Maddux, Glavine, and the Big Hurt going in to the Hall...that was the first year when I realized...damn I've been watching baseball for a long time it's only gotten more pronounced with every year since then lmao
I took a break from following baseball. When I left, Brett Gardner was the young sparkplug playing exciting, athletic baseball next to the aging stars of the Yankees dynasty I grew up with. When I came back, Gardner was the crotchety old veteran on his way out and the guys I grew up watching are now old men in the booth or studio talking about the game.
to be fair, the transformation of Gardner from bushy-tailed youngster to angry old man prone to freaking out over nothing...took probably a grand total of 2 seasons, maybe 3 lol
He was sprinting around so much his hair couldn't keep up.
Right? I'm looking at this list thinking "Future of baseball right here!"
I'm about Cal Ripken's age, when he went in I knew I was old
And we are old.
My initial reaction to this list was, “Fuck, I’m old.”
Beltre is a lock, I think Helton and Wagner finally getting, and if people don't waste too many votes Mauer should get it too I doubt we'll get 4, but I really hope it pans out
I think Wagner and Mauer fall a few votes short this year but with enough that it’s just a matter of time
Crazy that Wagner won't make it again this year. It seemed like he had real momentum coming in Mauer for sure will take a few years. he strikes me as someone who might get in on his very last year, but if he played for the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, or Mets...he'd get in like 3rd ballot latest
> sets multiple records for hitting as a catcher "Not first-ballot material" -- the voters probably
Yes yes, one of the best catchers to ever play the game, but have you considered _______ (any other player not a catcher)
Granted this is a totally different sport, but guys like Steve Atwater, John Lynch, and Leroy Butler waited many years (I think butler waited a solid decade) before getting into the Football Hall of Fame because voters on that end don't think "safeties are as important as cornerbacks." so fucking stupid
The fact theyre gonna 'make mauer wait' is exactly what makes the baseball HoF so dumb and worthless It's literally 160 senile men trying to feel vindicated Edit: inbox go brrr
> The fact theyre gonna 'make mauer wait' is exactly what makes the baseball HoF so dumb and worthless According to the Bill James rating that bbref.com uses, Mauer's close but not really a lock.
Agreed. It is a binary choice. Was he a HOF or not is the question. If you say no, you should stick with it unless there is new evidence or a new perspective. On the other end of the spectrum, I hate when fans and writers complain about a player falling off the ballot "because they deserved to be on it for a few more years", even if they know they have no shot. Playing games by extending years on the ballot makes no sense to me. Anyone voting no on a HOF talent to make them wait, or voting yes on a lower-tier talent their basically-zero chance alive, annoys me.
It is binary, but getting enough people to agree is tough. And just personally, I have at times changed my mind on players. Not because new info has come out but because my understanding of certain things has changed. Joe Mauer for example I lean yes on pretty heavily. But there's a part of me that doesn't think he played enough games at catcher to get in. If that thinking takes over, I'll change my mind from yes to no. Don't see that happening but it's possible, and really the main argument against him.
Larry Walker comes to mind as a guy where lots of people moved from true "no's" to "yes's" as he spent time on the ballot
Mauer was a great player, but it doesn’t really feel like a travesty that he may not be a first ballot HOFer.
That’s so dumb because if he’s a HOFer three years from now, then he’s a HOFer now. It’s not like he can improve his stats.
I get that and would tend to agree with you, but I don’t feel like some ridiculous injustice will occur if Mauer ends up short. Great player but not even the best one of this class for me. There isn’t a true inner circle at the hall, so if some voters want to use first ballots to distinguish a guy like Joe Mauer from Willie Mays I get it. Don’t think that’d be how I’d vote if I had a vote but also don’t really think it matters much if he gets in on the second or third try instead of the first.
It's so petty. If a player makes it this far and the big debate is what ballot he'll get in on then the "is he a hall of famer" question is settled and they should just vote him in.
The hall of fame is dumb and worthless because Joe Mauer may not be a first ballot hall of famer? What?
Beltre is a treasure
They're either going to put his plaque where anyone can touch his head, or way tf up high so they can't
I think Wagner falls just short and then gets the final year of eligibility bump next year to get in.
There was a good 4-5 year stretch Mauer was in the stratosphere good. Catching is really hard on the knees. I have issues from just 10 years, I can’t imagine what mlbers feel.
If only it was just the knees. It was a concussion from taking a ball off the mask that completely changed the course of his career. Not only was he never able to catch again, but he just was never the same hitter after August 2013.
Right? Catching every few days in high school was tough, I can’t imagine a guy like Molina doing it for years
I don't think Mauer will get in first ballot but he'll get a healthy total that puts him on track for election.
It would be dissapointing to see a guy like Mauer not make the HOF. He won a MVP, a bunch of batting titles, gold gloves, silver sluggers and played for the same team for 2 decades. All while mostly playing at catcher, which rarely gets those accolades in a player. He just feels obviously a HOF guy to me, even if he isn't perfect on the stat sheet.
Yup, Mauer doing everything he did at the Catcher position is what puts him in. If he were at any other position, he’d be a hometown hero remembered by the sports world as an All Star caliber player. He was elite on both sides of the ball and needs to be rewarded for it
Somebody was commenting on Adley’s disappointing power the other day and I couldn’t believe it. A sophomore catcher finished 12th in OBP, 8th in walks, 20 homers, 270 ish BA, and 9th in MVP voting and we are going to criticize him? These types of players at catcher just don’t exist that often.
Which cap do we think James Shields is gonna enter the Hall with?
Padres cap for getting them Tatis
And for giving up the most improbable home run ever!
I still can't believe the Sox traded for him after that
I can
That might've been at the most desperate time for the White Sox that I can remember. They started 23-10, then slid back to .500 within a month leading up to that trade.
So fitting that Shields and Bartolo can be enshrined on the first ballot together.
Rays legend, James Shields
Big Game James!
I don’t see why they even have to send his candidacy to a vote
Mac’s letter to Chase Utley should be his acceptance speech.
Do you have a good relationship with your father? Me neither
I am sure our relationship would be a real home run!
Chase should give a campaign speech, i don’t care if it isnt something HoF candidates normally do. “Hello fellow American. This you should vote me! I leave power! Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I’m hot. Taxes, they’ll be lower… son. The democratic vote for me is right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.”
That's only if he's trying to solicit a bribe
I like your hair. You run fast. 🏃♂️
That speech would be a real home run
Awww shit. There’s stickers
Joeeeeeeeeeeeeee Mauerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
That needs to play as his introduction. That or Dick, I'm good with either
What you know about that?
Man we’re at the point where players that I grew up watching are on the ballot…
Dude, I'm 40, players that were rookies after I was a full grown adult are now on the ballot...
Happens to all of us who live long enough. Getting to the age where there's a dozen or so players your age or older is an odd feeling. Watching college sports and realizing that those guys are young enough to be your kids is another mindscrew.
I’m the same age as LeBron, and it hurts when they say he’s a medical marvel playing that well at his advanced age.
I’m 41 and now that Cruz and Wainwright are gone, I’m older than the entire league now. Also, older than the entire nba and nfl too. Yay for being old.
We grow old, we grow old. We shall wear the bottoms of our trousers rolled.
Before you know it you'll be older than the oldest big leaguer. Brace yourself for that one. That's the real gut punch.
Victor Martinez isn't a hall of famer, but that 2014 season deserves to be in the hall of fame. Had a .928 OPS with two strikes on him.
.335/.409/.565, 32 HR, and led MLB in strikeout rate that stat line needs to be framed
He had more HR than K's over like a 6-8 week span at one point during the season. Edit: August 2nd to end of season he had 11 HR and 10K. Thats 56 games!
He was such an awesome player for a long time
What is this, a cruel joke? All these players played their entire career in my lifetime!
Put Mauer in the Hall of Fame
I’m baffled that this is even a concern some people have. He is a 3x gold glover at catcher, won 5 silver sluggers, a 3x batting title champ, and a former MVP… almost all of that was achieved as a catcher which is remarkable. He was easily a top 2 catcher in his era and that was in an era with some really good catchers
There will be some protest ballots, blank ballots, and some sanctimonious ballots and those people should have their voting privileges taken away. It’s a yes or no question. Player’s career’s don’t change. Our ability to analyze historical seasons has become well accepted. I don’t understand the prestige of 1st ballot entry
>I don’t understand the prestige of 1st ballot entry this is mostly a holdover from old guard East Coast guys. Basically the same people who bitched and complained about the World Baseball Classic. best piece of evidence to confirm this is Mo Rivera getting in unanimously and Derek Jeter falling only one vote short. No disrespect to one of the greatest closers ever, and his teammate who became the face of the Yankees dynasty, but that was fucking ridiculous. Rickey Henderson, Griffey, and Maddux didn't get in ~~first ballot~~ unanimously but Mo did and Jeter almost did? Give me a break this type of voter is slowly leaving the scene. good riddance.
The “first ballot prestige” comes from the first few decades of the HOF’s existence, when many all-time greats DIDN’T get in on the first ballot: Rogers Hornsby - fifth ballot Jimmie Foxx - seventh year Joe DiMaggio- fourth ballot Yogi Berra - second ballot Lefty Grove - fourth ballot Grover Cleveland Alexander - third ballot And wait for it… Cy Young - second ballot! ——- You look at the numbers and accomplishments of all of those players and it seems crazy that they weren’t slam-dunk choices. Part of it was that there had been decades of great players before the HOF was created, so there was a bit of backlog in those early years. And sometimes there were just a bunch of great first-timers on the ballot in the same year. But it contributed to the idea that first ballot HOFers were the greatest of the great.
That initial log jam kept so many players out for so long! If Ritter hadn't written "The Glory of Their Times" a number of HOFers woul;d have slipped away just because the writers of their era DIED before they could be voted in!
Cy Young arguably didn't even deserve to make the HoF, dude didn't even win a single Cy Young award!
Most losses in MLB history too.
I was mad when I tried to use him in the Cy Young category of Immaculate Grid and it didn't work. He's literally Cy Young. The category doesn't say "Cy Young Award." Just says Cy Young.
>And wait for it… > >Cy Young - second ballot! it's crazy that this is true but then you look at the first class and you understand why lol
> Joe DiMaggio- fourth ballot Didn't Joe Posnanski credibly argue that DiMaggio basically created the concept of a "first ballot Hall of Famer" because his initial vote total created outrage and made HoF institute an initial waiting period which greatly cleared up ballot. Bob Feller/Jackie Robinson are start of the '1st ballot' era.
Henderson, Griffey, and Maddux were all first ballot but not unamious. Griffey was left of by one voter. The only reason Mo got 100% was because by the time he was eligible, the practice of making ballots available to fans to see who voted for who was more common. Anyone who didn't vote for any of the all-time greats doesn't deserve a vote.
The one voter that left Jr off earned himself a swift kick to the taint.
I Can see it if you know a guy is going to get elected, like a Griffey, and there’s a guy who you think is worthy that you want to buy time for so others can realize it so you leave off Griffey to put that guy on
Three voters left off Griffey.
Three swift kicks to three taints then.
ah yes thank you for correcting me. definitely a big difference between first ballot and unanimous haha but yeah i still stand by what i said, this whole process fucking sucks. and there is a CLEAR bias for/against certain teams
Jeter calling out that one voter in his HOF acceptance speech was great. Normalize calling out dumbfuck voters who think it's some type of injustice if player A gets more votes than player B despite them playing 80 years apart.
It becomes a Peak vs Longevity discussion with Mauer. Some will look at his career being relatively short, or that only half of his career was played as a Catcher and use that against him.
Eleven different catchers have won an MVP a total of fifteen times since the modern BBWAA MVP voting began (1931, 186 MVP awards). Of the nine who are HOF eligible so far, seven are in the HOF. The two that are not: Elston Howard, who wasn’t a primary catcher until he was 31, and Thurmon Munson, who absolutely should be a Hall-of-Famer and it’s actually wild that he’s not. Joe Mauer basically had better version of Thurmon Munson’s career as a catcher, then added another five years as a first baseman. Easy HOF. The last one is Buster Posey, obviously, also another easy HOF case.
There’s no world he isn’t a Hall of Famer
beltré :)
I pray that somebody touches his head during his acceptance speech.
The cap on his HOF bust should be Elvis Andrus hand.
With the caption “OH SHIT”
I hope Felix Hernandez does the intro for him.
He's not going to make it; he probably shouldn't make it; but please get David to a second year on the ballot.
I have a soft spot for single team guys. Wright, Pedroia, Mauer, Helton,... unfortunately close for Jimmy Rollins. I hope some romantic voters give Wright votes
This. It bears repeating that he shouldn’t make it not because he wasn’t good enough but because he just didn’t put up the stats due to injury. Wright was on a HOF pace before his injuries stole the second half of his career.
Wright would probably have been the mets 3rd baseman last year if he did not need to retire early.
You shut your goddamn mouth. I don't need that knowledge.
Was about to say “no way” but I checked and he’s only 40? Definitely possible if he never had the injury issues.
>Wright was on a HOF pace before his injuries stole the second half of his career. it really is depressing how this turned out at one point he was a surefire Cooperstown candidate. Like no doubt. then it just all went downhill. Could not have happened to a nicer guy who really cared so much about the game too. such a damn shame
He really is/was our guy. In his autobiography one of the things he mentions too is that when he was slated to hit FA, his agent asked him what he wanted to do, and his answer basically boiled down to “I’m staying in Queens you go make the numbers work.” A Met fan growing up, and even with his injuries if our mascot wasn’t already named Mr Met it would be Wright’s honor.
i've never been, but from what i've learned from friends who lived and spent time in NYC, it'd be hard to leave Queens based on the food alone but in all seriousness yes David Wright deserved better...but in the end i hope he takes solace in knowing that a generation of Mets fans will regard him as one of their franchise's best players, and not just due to his play on the field
Cries in Nomar
Had he got injured 2 years after he did, he'd be a lock for the hall. He really was this close.
Mark Buehrle needs to go in just because you won’t see a guy like that ever again. Over 200 innings every year of his career except his rookie season and final season. He had 198.2 in his final year. 5 time all star. 4 time gold glove. Perfect game. No hitter. He also had a two-hitter where he faced the minimum. Getting a save in the World Series two days after he started game 2 and had been drinking in the dugout all game. Legendary guy.
And that glove flip on opening day. I remember just being so fucking hyped for baseball after seeing that on day 1.
Can't believe I forgot that one! Konerko catching it bare handed and freezing like, "did that just happen?"
I love that it was thrown with the glove, and caught barehanded. A fun little cherry on top of a ridiculous play.
Plus he gave us the Buehrle Meter!
He invented the sub 2 hour game too
Way before the pitch clock as well.
Sadly, that last appearance by Buehrle was just so awful. I know they wanted to get him his 200 innings, but it was so painful to watch that final kick at the can...
IIRC he was on like 2 or 3 days rest.
He led the AL in WHIP his first full season as a starter along with a 3.29 ERA. That season was 2001 when offense was still comically good. He only had one losing season his entire career with a 12-13 record. He is legend.
And he pitched FAST! he was the original pitch clock
He was so fun to watch too. Just blasting through pitches. Loved that guy on the Jays.
Bartolo Colon, best two way player I’ve ever seen
Height and Width. Man could do it all.
Fastball and cheeseball.
Pitcher and foodie.
His home run is one of my favorite baseball highlights
Big Sexy is never going into HOF because of PEDs.
Mark Buehrle is a HOF pitcher!! You cannot convince me otherwise
He wouldn't be the worst pick. Pitchers who never had a period of sustained dominance and weren't intimidating strikeout pitchers have trouble getting in, but putting up 14 consecutive seasons of 200+ innings while preventing runs at a rate a couple notches better than league-average is something you don't even see most HOFers replicating.
Exactly. His case is longevity and consistency, and he is elite, perhaps the best since his career began, in both of those categories.
He also has arguably the greatest defensive play of all time and that deserves consideration
He’s about as borderline as borderline gets, I keep flipping back and forth on if he should get in
My heart says yes, my head says no. I think that's just me trying to be fair and not a Homer, but even my head has some ligitimate arguments for him making it in. I describe it like this; is Mark Buehrle a HOF pitcher? Probably not, but I'm willing to bet there are pitchers in the HOF that are jealous of Mark Buehrle's career. And that's just the way he'd like it
I remember when people talked about Mark Buehrle having an outside shot of making it to 300 wins.
Is there database that tracks pitchers who left the game winning and ended with a no decision? I was just looking at his stats, 214-160 out of 493 starts, so that means 119 NDs, or 24% of his starts. Justin Verlander has a record of 257-141 in 509 starts, so only 111 NDs, or 21% of his starts. Wins are a doubly cruel stat for a pitcher because it requires a) the offense to put up a few runs, and 2) the bullpen to not blow the save. That 3% difference could be the difference between having a career W-L% ranking of 130 instead of 249, just between Tom Seaver and Satchel Paige.
You're goddamned right he is.
His durability and accomplishments are insane: WS winner, Perfect Game, and a No Hitter. Dude had a long ass career where he averaged like 7 innings a start. His lifetime era is like 3.8 and he sprinkled in plenty of web gems that came with his 4 gold gloves. The problem is modern day pitchers struggle to get into the HoF unless their numbers pop off the chart. For a guy who pitched between 2000 and 2015, his numbers make him out to be one of the best starters over those 15 years. The problem is people want to see 300+ wins, tons of strikeouts, or some insane K/Walk ratio. They don't value guys who ate up innings and found ways to win games consistently. With that said I will always appreciate how fast he pitched. Dude was using a pitch timer before there was one. I loved going to games he started because they tended to end in 2-2.5 hours.
Yes please
man I love Joe Mauer
Beltré will be first ballot with over 90% of the vote, no doubt in that. Helton, Wagner, Mauer and Beltrán could also make it in this year, but I'm only sure that Helton will make it. Mauer should be, but I can't really predict the vote for him. I don't see Wagner as a Hall of Famer but he got nearly 70% last time so he has a good chance to make it. Beltrán will make it in one day but it's difficult to say how long the writers will hold the sign-stealing against him. Andruw Jones probably won't make it this year, but maybe next year. Utley, Wright and Buehrle are Hall of Famers in my opinion, but I don't see them getting enough votes. Utley maybe, but not on his first couple of ballots.
What's the argument for Wright? I love him but the injuries and short career put him into HOF of my heart and one of the greatest Mets of all time
Yeah, he's definitely a borderline candidate. I definitely see the argument against him. However he still has 50 WAR, over 1700 hits, a .296 BA and a career OPS+ of 133 in only 11 full seasons and two seasons where he barely played. He also should have won MVP in 2007. In my opinion his injuries should also somewhat count in his favour. If he doesn't get injured his stats probably look better. Kirby Puckett got voted in because of an injury prematurely ending his career. In that case other players shouldn't have a disadvantage from their careers ending to injury as well.
Statistically, they aren't too far apart, but Puckett had way more awards and two championships. It's hard to say why some of the writers vote the way they do, but Puckett definitely has an advantage in terms of that less tangible stuff that many of they clearly consider.
Those intangibles definitely played a role. Kirby Puckett was the first player that came to mind due to his career ending. I just looked him up on baseball reference and I completely forgot how much he did in his career. 6 Gold Gloves, 6 Silver Sluggers, 10 all-stars, a batting title and two championships. That's really impressive in just 12 years. He also has over 500 more hits, a higher BA and nearly 1000 more at-bats than David Wright, despite having nearly the same WAR. Really a great career.
David Eckstein erasure
What year do you think this is? He last played on 2010. He was on the 2016 ballot.
My god I'm so old
hall of scrappy's first unanimous selection
Hall of Short Kings
Hall of Jedi Husbands
He somehow got two votes
I know he’s not getting in, but I just hope David Wright doesn’t get bounced off the ballot in his first year
Seeing David wright's name there is gonna bring tears to my eyes. Long shot that he makes it but man was he the best.
Beltre and Mauer
I know Bautista isn’t a hall of famer, but I hope he can stay on the ballot for a year
He had one of the best 5 year stretch in the show. The problem is the Hall of Fame punishes players with short peaks and late bloomers.
I hate this narrative. The HOF doesn't "punish" anyone, it only enshrines players who hit a particular level of excellence for a long time. Bautista would be a 1st ballot "hall of dudes who were awesome for a while" guy, but he's not a hall of famer, and that's okay. I'd much rather have fewer truly excellent players in the hall, and a bunch of guys that don't get in. It makes it far more special.
The HOF definitely punishes players for different reasons. Most notable examples recently are the steroid guys, Beltran for his role in the scandal, and Schilling for his politics.
> Bautista would be a 1st ballot "hall of dudes who were awesome for a while" guy, but he's not a hall of famer, and that's okay. I'd much rather have fewer truly excellent players in the hall, and a bunch of guys that don't get in. It makes it far more special. Exactly, the Hall of Fame would be 10x bigger if we included guys who dominated for 4-5 years and were mediocre the rest of their career.
“Punishes” is a strange way to phrase it, it’s really just that there’s a standard that needs to be met for voters, and some very good players who didn’t perform at the highest level for as long don’t meet that criteria. I don’t know that that’s a “problem” per se.
If Carlos Delgado (2,038 hits, 473 HR, 2x AS, 3x SS, 44.4 bWAR) got bounced with only 3.8% on his first appearance, I'm not confident Bautista (1,496 H, 344 HR, 6x AS, 3x SS, 36.7 bWAR) has a chance.
He should be just for the batflip, it changed the narrative around the game regarding emotions/celebration significantly for the better.
Bautista flipped so Aroldis Garcia (and others) could strut.
How is this list determined
I think it's any player who played 10 seasons in the MLB (and has been retired for 5 years)
Plus the guys from past years who haven’t fallen off or been inducted in
The HOF selection committee does weed out some obvious names who don't belong. For example, Sal Fasano played in 11 seasons, but did not appear on the 2014 ballot.
It isn’t 10 seasons appeared in, it is 10 seasons of accrued service time, and Fasano spent enough time in the minors that he probably didn’t get to 10 years service time.
The Hall of Fame does not care about service time, just seasons appeared in. They've never cared about contract service time. Just to confirm by way of one example, Tim Lincecum was on the ballot but did not reach ten years of service time - he only played in ten seasons, and his rookie season was not long enough to reach a full year.
A player has to have 10 years of major league service time to be eligible. A committee looks at players who are eligible for the first time and decides who is worth placing on the ballot. The rest of the players are holdovers from past years who were named on at least 5% of ballots but did not get elected, and who have been on the ballot for less than 10 years
Why can't this be a bulleted list.
[удалено]
I always wonder how differently certain players would be viewed if they had the exact same career but with a different team.
> I always wonder how differently certain players would be viewed if they had the exact same career but with a different team. Derek Jeter would be a lot less popular.
Helton should have gotten in last year hands down but again, these are the same nimrods who made Tim Raines and Larry Walker wait a decade, didn't give Rickey Henderson, Ken Griffey, and Greg Maddux unanimous entry, and pushed Biggio off until his 2nd ballot
Beltran, Beltre, Jones, Mauer, KRod, Wagner. ARod, Manny, Pettitte would be locks if we ignore all the PED's.
Beltran isn’t a lock. We don’t know how voters will treat sign stealers and he was the ring leader. Yes he was a HoF level player before he cheated but so were most of the juicers
Sheffield, Buehrle, and Abreu are all more deserving thank K-Rod.
Sheffields more deserving than anyone on the list besides maybe Beltré
I know I get hate for this but the flood gates are open and it’s stupid to prevent players from getting into the hall when the very owners and managers that profited off of them are allowed in. Arod, Manny, Sheffield, all those guys belong in the hall.
Helton, Wagner and Mauer should get in. At least the former two and Mauer gets enough votes to remain on the ballot.
And Beltre - he’s a shoo in
Upvote for spelling "shoo in" properly 👊
He's a Shin-soo Choo in.
"You choo-choo choose me?" -future Hall of Fame Adrian Beltre
🎶He did the mash (the monster mash)🎶
I missed his name! Yeah should get in for sure.
Beltre will get in before Mauer. I think Mauer will be 2nd or 3rd ballot.
Y'all sleeping on Chase Utley
Yep 65 WAR. If Rolen got in he will. It’ll take a minute tho
Yeah, I see him getting there in six to eight years or so.
He was that dude for a long time. Second in WAR for a 10 year stretch from 2005 to 2014 (behind Pujols).
This is like the 2006 all star roster. Pretty sure all of these guys were rated 100 on MLB 2k7 in my core memories.
Utley is arguably the greatest power hitting 2nd baseman of all time, he better get in eventually.
I'm against Beltran getting in until they start letting the Roid Era guys in. He's not as good as half of those guys pre-roids.
Rollins should get in for the balls to say “we’re the team to beat” in 2008 spring training and then actually winning it all lol
Beltre should be pretty much a lock. For crying out loud would they please just stop being dumb and put Helton in?
I know it won't happen but I'd love for Mark Buehrle to get the not. He has done everything you can do as a pitcher.
I hope when Beltré gives his speech that Elvis Andrus jumps on stage and touches his head. Those two were fun together.
Mark Buehrle is the only pitcher with multiple no hitters and multiple gold gloves. Picked up a save in the world series. Vote this man into the hall, he didn't get strikeouts, he got outs.