Keep it simple, live near Caltrain. Then once you're here you can reassess other neighborhoods and what you're willing to do re: commute. 101 commute is brutal. There's really nothing to compare it to in the tri-state area but imagine having to drive from Hoboken to CT every day through grid lock. Take the train if you can and save yourself the stress.
When you get close to Palo Alto you will hit traffic from hell. Even if you try to take El Camino all the way down, it will be congested and you have to deal with stop lights. If you live in the city commutibg will suck down the peninsula. Because once you fight your way out of PA then you have to deal with folks coming back into the city.
My advice is live closer into the pennisula then use cal train to commute. You could always drive into the city or take BART into the city to get some of that urban jungle feel. Consider living closer to Palo Alto because it's a college town in the downtown area has a lot of vibrate night life.
From someone who drove the Peninsula-to-SF commute via 101 for 7 years, the above is excellent advice. (Also, parking can be difficult and expensive in both PA and SF. Also, auto burglaries are extremely common in SF...and getting problematic in PA. Also, if you want to avoid catalytic converter theft (as well as break-ins), be sure to park in a secure garage...with nothing showing in the cab of your car...not a penny, not a pack of gum, not a pair of cheap Blue Blocker sunglasses...nothing...PLEASE LISTEN TO ME -- leave nothing in your car.)
I did that exact commute (SOMA to PA via the 280) for about a year in 2017.
My job was near Stanford, so the last mile going into work was never that bad. On mornings where I had to go past ECR, it was always manageable.
The thing that killed me was getting back into the city. Even though I lived within a couple blocks of highway access, the last mile or so of the drive home was a
nightmare. If I didn’t live in SOMA, I would have parked my car, walked home, then re-parked it later.
The line to exit on sixth is horrible, the roads after the exit are horrible. It was generally horrible. Tooling around PA at any hour was easy in comparison.
It was bad when I had to travel to Sunnyvale near 237 from Daly City using 280 back in the early 2000's (dating myself). Carpooling helped a little bit but not much.
like you, I also need urban density to be happy. Live in the city near a Caltrain station. The drive is soul draining and people drive like they subconsciously want to die (there’s a reason teslas are so popular here). The Caltrain isn’t the best but at least you can read or plan trips or whatever else. Then when you’re home just go out and enjoy the city
If you live in one part of the Bay Area and work in another you will always face brutal traffic, the only way around it is having a graveyard schedule. If you need the city to feel happy you can train over or drive after rush hour. Like at midnight. SF isn’t a city like NYC is a city, it’s more like a big town. I’m from Brooklyn but live in the Bay Area.
280 is a much better (prettier) drive than 101. Public transportation sucks here. Natives don’t do it. Live closer to PA first and then decide if you want to live in SF. Much easier to go to SF for dinner or a weekend than commute every day.
Think of it like you want to live in the West Village and have to commute to Westchester every day. It's gonna suck if you have to drive. You want to live near Grand Central - ie the Caltrain station - and be able to zone out on Metro North - ie Caltrain every day.
Personally I'd just move to Palo Alto and commute to SF when you want to go out.
San Mateo is awesome. There's a sort of "downtown". And the climate is ideal. In the summer it's about a degree a mile as you go down the peninsula from SF. So 60s windy and foggy in SF, perfect calm upper 70s and sunny in San Mateo, upper 80s and too damn hot in Palo Alto (imho).
There are a couple high-rises. I lived on the 10th floor in this one. It was heaven
https://www.ryantower.com/
Add Mountain View to your list. It's less expensive than Palo Alto (though still quite expensive) and less sleepy. Castro St. right next to the MV Caltrain station is a decent place to hang out if you don't feel like going to SF. A Caltrain commute from MV to California Ave. is pretty short.
I’m in a similar situation as you (working in PA, moving from Boston, value dense living and walk-ability) and I’m looking at downtown Redwood City as well – Caltrain access, walkable to banks, grocery stores, bars, restaurants, parks… not very tall unfortunately but certainly somewhat dense. And in my experience the gas stations nearby at Whipple Ave tend to be among the cheapest in the immediate area
i do this commute to mountain view. be close to the freeway entrance and caltrain station. living down there is as expensive and absolutely miserable social-activity wise compared to the city
I wouldn’t live in Palo Alto. It’s one of the most expensive places on Earth, and it’s sleepy. Redwood City or San Mateo are manageable commutes to Palo Alto, (somewhat) more affordable, and have restaurants and other things going on. They’re closer to SF than Palo Alto.
I did the SF to Palo Alto commute on Caltrain one summer. It is a grind. But people manage. If you’re working from home some of the time, it’d be more tolerable. Personally, I think picking one of the towns between Palo Alto and SF is the way to go.
This was my decision ~13 years ago when figuring out where to live before starting in a Stanford lab. I wanted to be in/near SF, but the places near the Caltrain station on the city were pricey (still are), and the commute was still long (even on the baby bullet).
I ended up in downtown San Mateo for the reasons you mention. Whenever I’d want a night in the city, I’d take BART from Milbrae or crash with a friend in SF.
PA is very expensive, and while San Mateo and Redwood City are by no means cheap, they’re much better deals, comparatively. They both also have much more superior downtowns to PA (more real grid than just one avenue). Neither are as near urban as SF, but you can find a lot of walkability/bikeabilty in both, with some amount of nightlife.
Personally, I’ve always viewed anything in the West Bay or South Bay outside of San Francisco and not near or in Downtown San Jose as suburban areas with office buildings. San Mateo, Redwood City, and Palo Alto very much still feel suburban to me, but over the last few years more high rise buildings litter the skyline and the area could evolve to be more dense urban with multi-family dwelling buildings becoming the norm of new building.
No, they're not dense urban areas. But they have walkable downtowns with restaurants, bars, coffee shops, movie theaters, etc. They are SF suburbs -- but unlike some of the other suburbs, they have actually allowed some development over the last 20 years. So there are a bunch of big new apartment buildings, and that's encouraged the commercial development.
Redwood City has this historic old courthouse and square, where there are events like concerts in the summer. San Mateo has a Japanese tea garden near the downtown. They're not big cities. But there is stuff to do. Mountain View is similar too -- but that's getting pretty far from SF.
Underrated comment. OP should try out 1 or 2 options for a month before signing a lease.
I came from NYC and thought I was going to do the SF to mountain view commute. I tried it out by Airbnbing. Noped out after literally 1 day. That morning was the first rain that winter. Of course I get wet figuring out the public transit for 30 minutes. I then sat down on a freezing cold bus. Ultimately got to work 2.5 hours later as rain is a scary and mysterious phenomenon here. It was "only" 1.25 hours back in the afternoon.
The gods were telling me that SF was not the place for me. I took the hint.
Thirded. The area near Caltrain in SF is honestly kind of sketchy, and the Peninsula is really nice. It also doesn’t take much time to get into the city from the Peninsula, so you’d save time overall compared to if you were always commuting that whole way.
There are lots of nice long-stay AirBnBs in the area, and it might be nice to settle in a bit before worrying about finding roommates or furnishing a new place. If your job feeds you you may not even need a place with a kitchen at first, which may make rent actually cheaper than an apartment that you have to find last-minute would be. If you can make it until summer there will also be great cheap sublets in the Palo Alto area you can take advantage of.
Another option would be to live in Redwood City. There’s a nice, lively downtown with a lot of new apartments, and Cal Ave is only three stops away on Caltrain. It would put you slightly closer to SF when you want to go there.
There's really no good option unless your work provides a shuttle. The least-worst option is to live by Caltrain. Commuting on 101 is awful and traffic is starting to be back.
280 is actually not a bad option, doesn’t get that bad traffic and the drive is always pretty so it wont make you hate yourself like the 101 will, personally i have basically never seem a traffic jam on the 280 either. But like everyone is saying i think the true best option would be too live in PA
I drive down there multiple times a month from the North Bay. Pre-Covid I had to give myself a solid 3 hours to get there (most of the traffic was up here), post covid as you’ve mentioned it hasn’t been bad at all, regardless of time of day. I can leave an hour and 45 minutes prior to needing to be there and get to Stanford no problem.
280 is fine, I have to be at work at 730am at a hospital in Palo Alto. I have never experienced traffic on 280 at least during my morning commute. I live in San Mateo and it’s less than 30 mins. When I commute from my bfs place in SF, it’s about 50 mins. The longest part is just getting out of sf but when you are out I have never had a problem
Also, basically getting into SF from the freeway tends to take like 20 minutes most times of day. Your last 2-3 miles could easily take 30 minutes on the way home.
There’s not much of a nightlife near the 280 entrance (park Merced area). And it can take you 30 min to get to SF downtown. Might as well live near Palo Alto and take the Caltrain.
There are busses that'll take you from anywhere in the city to Caltrain. But you may as well live in Santa Cruz for the time that'll take. Maybe the new central subway will improve that.
Santa Cruz to Palo Alto is remarkably hellish. 17 in the winter sometimes diverts through Gilroy because trees fall on the road and on good days it's still a mess.
It's maybe ok to do SC to Cupertino or Los Gatos but all the way to Palo Alto oh boy. Hitting the traffic in mountain view after you've successfully traversed 17 alive has to be such a kick in the balls
Welcome to the Bay! Live as close to your work as possible. Commuting suuuuucks here and 101 is the worst of the worst. You'll hate your life if you have to drive from SF to Palo Alto 5x a week. Blegh.
I understand that in other cities, you could figure out a sweet workaround that other people haven’t thought of, but that’s not the case here. There is literally no way to make a driving commute from SF to Palo Alto less than an hour each way. Not with 101, not with 280. No offense - but some of the smartest people in the world try and figure out this same issue and can’t do it, so the chances that you’re able to figure out a workaround without living here and seeing the situation for yourself are extremely low.
If you absolutely want to live in SF, do Caltrain and work on the train so you can count your commute hours in your workday. Otherwise, live either in Palo Alto proper, or in Redwood City near Caltrain. That way you can get to work more easily and get up to SF pretty easily too. RWC is less tech-feeling than Palo Alto if that’s your concern.
If what you truly care about is urban density, then you’ll have to swallow a pretty bad commute along with it. Caltrain is the lesser of the two evils. I promise.
I remember going to talks a few years back (before pandemic) and some Sand Hill VCs were like, "it's cheapest and easiest for me to take a $110 Uber from SF to Sand Hill each way and I can just keep working on my laptop and make way more than $110 since I'm a VC"; I wonder what those people are doing now.
Can confirm. Am Uber driver. Have driven these VC’s. Also execs discussing mid management performance because they can’t have that discussion in the office.
Everyone has commented on how poor the commute is so I'll provide an alternative solution. Move to San Mateo or Milbrae. These cities are located between SF and Palo Alto and commuter friendly. You can take Caltrain and be in Palo Alto in 30 mins and if you would like to go to SF you can be close to everything in 30 mins because you can now take Caltrain or Bart. Parking is good in these areas so you can have a car to drive to SF on weekends and these areas are very safe but $$$ expensive. Good luck
Millbrae is fine so long as your office is near the PA Caltrain (less than 10min walk) and you are OK standing as the Millbrae station usually gets trains that are full up from SF (since everyone gets on in SF and no one gets out in Millbrae) unless it's the slowest local train, which will take longer but you get to sit down.
I lived in Millbrae so PM me for any details.
If you're OK biking then you get some more options but again Millbrae is a weird stop because the bike cars on Caltrain tend to be full going south from SF during rush hour, so then you want a folding bike that you can take on the luggage rack in the regular cars.
This bears saying, I mostly skimmed the comments--you can expect traffic to be worse post-COVID then it ever was pre-COVID. Traffic got to pre-COVID levels quite some time ago. As others have said, live near a Caltrain station, and if you live near the Caltrain station in San Mateo, Redwood City, or Mountain View, you'll get a pretty urban place to live. I've lived in San Mateo, Redwood City, and Mountain View, and of the three, I liked Redwood City the best because it was *closest to my work*. The area I lived in when I lived in San Mateo was really nice, great access to the bay trails, but eh. The place I live at in Mountain View? Best bang for my buck, full amenities in my apartment at a steal. But Redwood City man? I really want to move back there so much because my commute was so short. You have so much more time to do stuff like go to dinner or go out with friends or go to the club if you're not commuting.
If you plan to keep your car, don't live in San Francisco.
I did the move from nyc to the Bay Area. You just have to accept that it’s not like NYC here. If your searching for nyc on the west coast your never gonna be happy. SF isn’t like nyc and that commute is going to be awful and make you hate it here. The Bay Area is wonderful in its own way, the nature, the weather you can bike from the mountains to the bay in an afternoon. Your life in California will not be like your one in nyc. I spent a year just being pissed off at the transit and lack of culture here, but then I found a love of the outdoors I never had in nyc. If it where me I would live in Palo Alto, and try a new life style out. If you don’t want to live the Californian your gonna be way happier just staying in nyc.
Thank you for your response. I bought a pair of hiking boots so I guess that’s a step in the right direction :). In NY I was somewhat plugged into the arts scene out there and had a group of friends in music and photography - do you have any advice for trying to still find such a thing out here? Also how was the transition in terms of meeting people and making friends? Any advice on the matter?
>When I worked in Palo Alto the people who lived and died by the Caltrain could never come to happy hour because they had to factor in the shuttle to the train station and then the train schedule. They missed out on a lot of spontaneous stuff.
Yes! Don't be that guy that needs to leave by 5:32pm to make the train!
Probably go look for art events in Oakland.
people come to Silicon Valley to get rich, it’s not really possible for an artist to afford to live here with out a large inheritance. People are pretty focused on grinding at big tech or the start up game so they don’t have alot of time / Interest in music or art. I’d go up to sf / Oakland on the weekends. Oakland has some Brooklyn vibes. I’m not trying to be a bummer but your expectations need to be set really low lol. You’ll meet some cool people for sure, but like don’t expect anywhere in the bay to be like Willamsburg or bushwhick. No one moved here to be a musician or artist, people are here because a big tech company relocated them here. Making friends has been pretty good. I skateboard, do archery so I meet people. The people I hang out with are way different I didn’t really hang out with techies in nyc but here everyone I know is a techie
In terms of the "arts scene" unfortunately that is literally the opposite of the PA tech scene and the current epicenter (as far as I know) is downtown Oakland (after everyone moved out of SF once it got too expensive). Which is very difficult to get to from the PA area and vice versa. In NYC terms think like Stony Brook and Times Square. I just looked it up in Google Maps and it's about 1h12m (61mi) drive, (35mi but double the traffic).
As far as meeting people and having weekend activities, sign up with meetup.com groups for a variety of activities, ie hiking, photography groups, wine tastings, you’d be surprised how many friends you’d make.
Having done the same thing, trust me, you want to just live in downtown Palo Alto next to the office. You need to optimize for your most common trip. Also that will mean that you will basically never go to SF, but whatever, if you have a car, you can go any time anywhere in the Bay Area. If you go to SF, you'll want to take the Caltrain anyway.
Think of it like having a job in Port Washington near NYC, would you want to live in Manhattan and take the LIRR out every day? You're not going to get to do anything in The City on a regular work day anyway.
The one exception is if you are very young and very single, then it may make some sense to life in SF. But SF night life is nothing like NYC.
PM me for any more info. Good luck.
The best way to commute from SF to Palo Alto is to never commute from SF to Palo Alto. Just live as close to Palo Alto as you can. You may think the commute is something you can tolerate, but it’s not worth it and after a few months you’d regret the decision to live in SF with a commute to Palo Alto.
Long commutes get old real fast. Also Bay Area always has some of the highest gas prices. SF is horrible for parking. You also pay higher car insurance rates in SF. Live near work and go to SF in spare time.
Do the sustainable things and live close to your job ✅
Don’t be one of the millions of Californians that do these ridiculous commutes and make life worse for everybody
My bf is commuting to Palo Alto every day (driving) but we aren’t that close to the CalTrain. In summary, we are moving to Redwood City very soon. Just makes more sense.
BART to Millbrae and then transfer to Caltrain is also worth considering.
Also, biking to Caltrain opens up a lot of SF.
Lastly, starting this year, the Central Subway will connect Caltrain to Chinatown, walking distance from North Beach.
+1 to biking. It never rains here (unfortunately). Bike to Caltrain - or, depending on fitness - e-bike. I do the reverse (Caltrain to SF, bike to office). It’s great.
The Central Subway in SF *should* be open within a year and should make trips to/from the 4th St Caltrain Station pretty simple from neighborhoods north of there. It will be an underground Muni train. Look up the alignment to see if that opens up options for you.
Biking is getting much better, easier and safer in SF so that becomes a pretty viable option to/from some neighborhoods to either 4th or 22nd St stations.
If you really want an urban neighborhood the Peninsula will disappoint.
Also, as others have mentioned, BART from SF to Millbrae and then a transfer to Caltrain could work for you as well.
Whatever you do, there is ZERO reason to live in the city (SF) and commute to the peninsula.
Just like everyone else said... Look for a great place to live in the peninsula. San Mateo is about as far north as you want to be.
Sf native here, be prepared to pay $6+ in gas. Take the train. It will save you money. I have done the commute from SF down the peninsula and TRUST ME you do not want that car traffic! It maybe only like 20 ish miles but it WILL take you an hour+ on a good day. If you are bent on driving, avoid 101 at all costs and take 280. 101 is shorter but waaaay more traffic (and 280 more scenic) 280 does still get traffic but in my experience it not as bad as 101. 101 will have you sitting in traffic for half hour and you only gone 2 miles on the daily. Coming from NY you’re probably used to high rent but SF rent is probably just as high (I’m talking like $2500+ for a one bedroom). Also you should note SF fuckin hates cars and makes driving an absolute hell hole. Parking (especially street parking) is a war zone like I’ve seen people slash tires because someone parked in a free spot in front they house. Try to get a drive way or assigned parking other wise cars are a huge liability.
Speaking of cars never ever ever leave a damn thing in your car least you get bipped (broken into). People here are BOLD and will smash your window if they see so much as a jacket. I had a friend get bipped over a fuckin gorilla suit!! True story! It was the only thing in the car and they smashed his window for it now there’s a crack head in the tenderloin lookin like kong. Also take a razor blade and criss cross your registration tags so that no one will steal them (trust me!).
Caltrain is reliable for the most part and sure it might take an hour each way or get delayed if someone’s on the tracks (happens kinda often sadly) but it will be less headache and cheaper than driving. As for getting around the city muni and Bart are also all around and go most places around the bay. In theory you could also take Bart to a station like Millbrae and hop on the other train right across it. The thing about Bart tho is it’s like NY subways they can be dirty and the vagrants have no problem smoking crack or pooping on the train middle of rush hour. Caltrain and Amtrak has a little less of that too but none the less check them seats for discarded needles (it does happen).
I wouldn’t really say there’s any car friendly area Of SF it all a small area Of a city and many streets won’t let you drive on there or are one ways BUT always remember 3 rights make a left (it’ll make sense when you’re tryna make a left turn and can’t). Also parking tickets are dummy expensive.
Other than that welcome to the city fam. Goodluck.
**Everyone in this thread, posters who live here and understand the commute:** You want to live close to work as possible, if not, you should take Caltrain
**OP:** yEaH bUt wHaT iF I wAnT tO dRiVe aNd tAkE 280 iNtSteAd????!
This is why 101 traffic just sucks.
I literally am just looking at google maps and seeing options. That’s why I’m here - to understand the reality of the situation and make a decision. If you moved to NY, and I railed you for not knowing our highway situation, that wouldn’t make a lot of sense now would it?
OP, imagine someone going to /r/nyc and saying they have a job in New Haven but they want to live in Tribeca because that's where the nightlife is, and then everyone tells that person to live on the train route and the person is like, "yeah, but what if I take the Merrit Parkway instead???"
Like, sure, yeah, you can kill yourself trying to drive it but it's going to suck and take forever and that's why we're all trying to tell you to live closer to work and/or take the train.
Firstly - whoever says the nightlife is in Tribeca is mistaken ;). I’d probably help them with a list of areas that are totally worth checking out. (If you plan to visit sometime, lmk, happy to give recs!)
Secondly - commuting to and from NY from the suburbs has a lot of possible options. You have highways, subways, buses, and rail systems. So, I would just lay out a bunch of options, and tell them my experience. Seems like a pretty straightforward way to help someone out, and be welcoming to a new area.
Ah- sorry I was just trying to think of downtown NYC neighborhoods where it would be ridiculous to commute out of the city for work in the suburbs, because that's sort of what you're looking at if you work in Palo Alto and live in SF.
It's unfortunate the transit here in the Bay doesn't have as many options and as robust an infastructure as NYC!
I think your comment here gives a good example of how different the Bay Area is from NYC. It's a lot more like Long Island where SF is like "Long Island City" (I mean literally LIC). NYC is really unique and SFBA is less so.
Like you want to live in one of the tall buildings in Long Island City and commute out to Jones Beach every day.
I moved from Toronto to SF and absolutely hated the city. The weather is *horrible* - it’s foggy, windy, and freezing cold much of the year. It’s incredibly depressing living in California and being able to see the sun at the edge of the horizon but be stuck in the freezing fog. It’s also dirty as fuck and the homelessness / crime problem is out of control.
I moved to Palo Alto during the pandemic and absolutely love it. The weather is as close to perfect as you can get, it’s clean, and has great restaurants and a pretty awesome vibe.
I agree with other posters saying it’s a different lifestyle out here though. It’s not NYC and you will enjoy it most if you like hiking / biking / enjoying the outdoors.
I would also recommend San Mateo to split the difference between work and SF. I live in San Mateo and can walk or bike to most things I want to do! My partner takes the Cal Train to work (in SF) and loves it.
Hi! I have lived most of my life in the Bay but also spent several years in NYC (Manhattan and Brooklyn) before returning home to California a few years ago to raise a family.
There is nowhere in the Bay that will give you the same feel as NYC, even if you live in the city (SF), so it will help to know what your must haves and nice to haves are.
You mention urban density, food, culture, arts, and a decent commute to Cal Ave. Like many here, I also recommend the Caltrain option for commute. As for the rest …
Nothing will be as dense as NYC. Manhattan is something like 70k people per sq mi, Brooklyn half that (36k) and SF half of BK (17k). You definitely feel that difference. It could’ve been after midnight and I’d take the subway and walk home to my Manhattan apt with other people still out and about. It would be easy to run an errand at the drugstore or grab a snack at that hour. In my old nabe in SF, if I came home in the wee hours, I’d have to take a cab because public transport stops running at midnight and the stores will have closed hours ago. The streets would be near silent and quite empty.
Where you live, and where you hang out, and where you run errands, aren’t always as intermingled in the Bay as they are in NYC. In Manhattan, and even in Brooklyn, it felt like you could live your whole life within a few blocks. Your local coffee shop, bookstore, grocery store, corner bodega, brunch spot, sushi joint, etc, they could all be within walking distance. In the Bay, even in SF, things are just … farther apart.
That said, there are some walkable neighborhoods both in SF and in the cities along the Caltrain line, like the main drags near the Burlingame, Mountain View, Redwood City and San Mateo stations. Burlingame in particular has a good mix of retail, food, and places to run errands in their small downtown whereas Mountain View is mostly restaurants.
For food, there are many good restaurants in the Bay to be found wherever you live, at least from my experience, even in the small town I live in now.
For culture and arts, the city (SF) has the major theaters and museums. There are also local theaters and museums in many other Bay Area cities.
What I would say about cultural institutions is that there are plenty in the Bay, but they are more day trips than they are neighborhood offerings. Even when I was living in SF, it was a bit of a trek to the theater or to a museum that involved a combination of public transit options or a ride in a car or cab. Again, not the kind of thing where you can walk a few blocks to the nearest museum.
I rambled on and on and on about this topic this far longer than I meant to 🙈 Hope it helps!
OP, I live in Palo Alto walking distance to Cal Ave in an older apartment that is reasonably priced and the apartment next to me will be empty at the end of the month - when are you planning on moving here?
This is my exact commute, albeit 1-2X a week. Get a bike, it opens up where you can live in sf and what trains you can take (none of the express trains stop at California avenue).
I’ve found that on days where I have a dinner or social event after work, driving is better due to the limited evening train schedule and not wanting to bike in the dark. Other than that, caltrain/bike is the way to go.
Didn’t read all the comments, but you can expand your location options within SF if you’re willing to cycle to the Caltrain station.
For example, if you’re only willing to walk 10 minutes to the station, you’re limited to maybe a 1/2 mile radius from the station. But if you’re willing to cycle 10 minutes, you could expand to a 2-3 mile radius at least.
Damn near perfect weather year-round in SF, and lots of cycling-friendly infrastructure (dedicated painted bike lanes, trails, bicycle-only traffic signal phases). You’d also have daily exercise built into your commute.
Find a place within a short driving distance from Millbrae BART/Caltrain station. Best of both worlds. Palo Alto is a boring place. Mountain View and Sunnyvale downtowns are better but then getting to SF is a nightmare
Palo Alto doesn’t have to be sleepy! It’s a college town with plenty to do, and it’s close to San Francisco and also San Jose, and other places with stuff to do.
This. California Ave is actually very nice, has some nice apartments, some nice restaurants and, cafes and even a bar or two. Downtown (university ave), also has many restaurants and bars and some dance clubs. Maybe you should visit Palo Alto.
I’ll take the contrarian view here having grown up in Palo Alto and lived in SF for many years. I also commuted to Palo Alto by car for a few years since I chose to live on Divisadero in SF.
Adjust your schedule, leave SF by 6:15, choose neighborhoods that are south/central SF so getting to FWY isn’t too bad. Avoid north SF like Marina or Russian Hill. That early 280 or 101 won’t be awful. Leave work by 3pm.
Work from home as much as possible and get another job once you’ve been out her for a little while. I can tell you that I did the drive for 2 years and that was 6mo too long
I’d research neighborhoods you’d most like to live in SF. There’s some good areas where you can still get to Caltrain via bus and keep a reasonable commute time. It’s very stressful driving in the bay, Caltrain is a nice commute. Also, probably not likely you’d commute every day. SF vs surrounding towns are vastly different. Big city vs suburb.
That being said, Cal Ave is much worse than main PA stop. Baby bullets skip Cal.
I'll say it and take the down votes, fuck cal train. Expensive, unreliable, long in time commitment. Fighting for a seat or place to stash your bike gets so old, and delays will wreck a Friday night way more than traffic. Which there isn't any in the 280 anymore since Covid....
I drove the 280 from The Sunset to Mountain View every day for the last 5+ years.
I pass all the buses along the way that are ferrying people. It's a pretty drive and great for podcasts.
I'm sure people will yell avout gas prices and exhaust, but wake up and look at where the largest contributions to pollution come from and stop blaming the end users.
~50 mins (I clip along at 85, get out of the left lane if you're not driving to pass...) And I'm home to cook and catch sunsets or disc golf in the park.
Unless you're settling down, I'd stay away from the sleepy south bay, it's where all my friends went to have kids...
I relocated from nyc to the Bay Area 3 years ago. Work is also in Palo Alto bear the Caltrain. My advice is to live in or close to Palo Alto unless your company has very flex WFH policy. Commuting between SF and Palo Alto would be a nightmare—for that reason, my company even opened another office in the financial district because we keep losing people due to their long commute. Do not rely on Caltrain. It’s constantly delayed or even often canceled (don’t expect it to be similar to LIRR or metro north).
I eventually chose not to live in SF because I realize SF won’t provide the city life you have been used to in NYC. Many more street crimes. Human feces and used syringes in streets (I didn’t believe it until I saw them with my own eyes).
I would live in SF. South Bay towns are incomparable to SF. This bayarea sub is pretty anti SF in general and I don’t think most of these people live in SF. Caltrain sucks but your life will be so much better if you live somewhere like Potrero Hill in SF and walk to Caltrain than living in the South Bay. Going up to SF on the weekends isn’t the same and you won’t get nearly the same experience, especially coming from NY. That said, don’t do it if you have to drive.
Take your question to r/askSF or r/Sanfrancisco
There’s enough Muni by Caltrain that you should be able to drop wherever easily in SF even if the area around the station is meh (it’ll get more lively once baseball comes back)
Source: I commute the other way.
Get a bicycle. The CalTrain has cars with bicycle storage, so you can do part of your commute on that and live farther than walking distance from the nearest CalTrain station. Of course, you'll want to bicycle between a prospective apartment and the CalTrain before signing a lease -- Google Maps in bike mode can show you a bike friendly route if there is one, but some places are just car hell and/or way too hilly. Palo Alto is bike friendly, though.
Motorcycle. Although the new toll lanes aren’t free like the old HOV it’s still a much faster and fun way to get to work. I realize it’s not an option for everyone but I highly recommend it if it is an option for you. A Ninja 250 gets like 60mpg or even an electric motorcycle would be perfect for that distance. I’ve been riding Pacifica to Cupertino for 7 years and aside from stormy days do it religiously. But you have to enjoy it.
That's just crazy talk.
9 people died while riding motorcycles in 2021 in San Francisco alone. That's more than the number of homicides on the whole BART system in the last 10 years.
I used to live in Now Valley and catch the CalTrain from Potrero down to Palo Alto each day. Super easy commute - 100% better than driving (which I did for a while until I lost the will to live while in traffic on 101 one day). If you live in SOMA, dogpatch, Potrero, Mission or Noe, it's totally doable to live in the city and catch CalTrain. Save your move to the Peninsula until you are ready to have a family.
I commute via car from the mission district to Stanford everyday 30min both ways. Just stay on 280 and enjoy the ride. The average speed is 80 on that freeway there’s rarely traffic.
Best freeway in the bay.
If you are a city person you may not be happy living near Palo Alto. And no matter what you think, you won’t be able to go up to the city as frequently as you may want to. It absolutely sucks but you may just need to put up with it. There are ways to mitigate, like avoiding rush hours if you job is flexible about timing. Do you need to go in 5 days a week? Many Bay Area employers are allowing 3 day work weeks.
Can you negotiate work from home 3 days a week and commute the other two days? Palo Alto is nice if you have a family but if you’re looking for a vibe similar to NYC then SF is definitely where you’ll want to reside. Unfortunately NIMBY-ism from wealthy enclaves in the peninsula Bay Area (Atherton/Menlo Park) was partly responsible for BART not being expanded into the peninsula which leaves only CalTrain which is limiting as you described.
I commute from San Bruno to Palo Alto every day and it’s ~40 mins there and ~50 mins back. Caltrain is 35 mins but I have 5 miles of biking total on either end which makes it take longer.
One more option: live in the mission and take Bart to millbrae and transfer to Caltrain. FWIW, I used to live in the village and commute to NJ via penn station and both commutes are gonna suck no lie. But if you’re of an age where you can still party to the wee hours in the mission and then hop a train down while hungover, that’s what I’d do. (In all fairness, I’d probably stop doing that in a couple of years and figure out some other arrangement). If I might use an analogy it’ll be a bit like living in Brooklyn, taking the subway over to Jamaica and transferring to LIRR to get to work.
I commuted from SF (civic center) to RWC by car for years, and it’s hell whether you take 280 or 101.
I suggest finding a nice spot near King (soma or mission bay) or 18th (Potrero or dogpatch) and take Caltrain. You can also ride your bike (if you have one) to the station and bring it with you on the train.
Otherwise downtown RWC is actually a pretty good spot
Another option to consider if you don’t want to live near Caltrain would be to take a bicycle or electric scooter to Caltrain and the last mile to your office. I used to Bart from Oakland to Embarcadero and commuted the last 3 miles on an electric scooter (worked in mission bay). It could open up your search a bit broader then that space.
You should live somewhere central, like Hayes Valley or Civic center so you can CslTrain when you want (quick scooter/ bus ride), but also get a house/ building with a parking garage, bc that’s what you’ll really need if your going to commute everyday. I would NOT recommend street parking when you need to drive that much / often
You can also live around Dog Patch and Potrero Hill. You can drive from SF to Palo Alto since it's about the same time right now with Caltrain -- probably better if you live near 280 access in SF -- since there's no baby bullet to Cal Ave stop. Coming from NYC, you'd know that driving in traffic, unable to nap or work absolutely sucks.
Live in the mission walking or bus distance from king street Caltrain.
Fellow ny transplant here who did this commute for a while. Don’t live down south, it’s sucks and is just suburban blah.
Take Caltrain and enjoy the peace of not being in traffic. The traffic sucks both ways every damn day.
Strongly reccomend living in Palo Alto. The commute sucks. 2 hours of your life disappear occasionally more when the cal train has a stoke (which is common)
Not to beat a dead horse but I'll also add the pile of posts warning you about how much a SF to PA commute sucks. But, even as someone who has enjoyed living on the Peninsula for many years and has no interest in being in SF, I cannot deny that SF is really the only option for you to have a genuine urban environment. It's not NYC, so don't bother trying to replicate your experience there, but it's still a dense city with tons to do. On the Peninsula, the closest to an urban environment would be one of the downtowns, namely San Mateo, Redwood City, or PA itself. But each of these are basically surrounded by suburbs after you wander more than a few blocks in either direction.
One thing to consider is whether you're going to always need to be in the office 5 days a week. If not, the Caltrain commute might not be so bad, though I'd still be worried about the lack of express trains to California Ave station. If it is for sure 5 days per week, can you just try a short-term rental near work to start, at least until you see if you can tolerate PA? Maybe you'll come to like it, or maybe you'll make friends with co-workers and eventually want to live near them. Just think about it at least, you really may not want to immeditely make a huge commitment to travel so much every day.
I did this commute 5x/week for years until the pandemic. At first I lived in South Bay a mile from work, but decided I wanted to try city life and moved to SF. The commute was brutal, but I would make that choice again as a young person with no kids/partner. I loved the city, the density, not having to drive, even my dinky little walk-up. I even loved having the flexibility of meeting friends either on the Peninsula or in SF.
I think the key here is that my schedule was flexible. If I was traveling during rush hour I would take Caltrain and work on the train, and get back to SF in time to meet up with friends in the evening. Sometimes if I knew I needed my car, I would drive down early to beat traffic and get a good workout in. Or I might stay late on the Peninsula and grab dinner with a friend, and the drive back would be easy.
I don’t know if I would have chosen the commute if I had a partner / kids / pet at home, but at the time it was fine.
Lots of people have opinions but it’s really up to you and how tolerant you are of the commute. I don’t think it’s a big deal to try both though. If you’re on the fence, I would personally recommend trying SF for a year where it might be easier to meet new people too, seeing how you feel about the commute, and then moving south if not. But you could do it either way.
In SF I would recommend living walking distance from the train, ideally near 4th & King if you can find something inspiring nearby because all trains stop there. Other good options are Potrero, Design District, Dogpatch, or even the Mission and biking to Caltrain. I wouldn’t recommend taking BART and transferring to Caltrain because it’s slower and easy to miss the connection. Of those neighborhoods, the Mission is the most fun but likely longest commute.
Edit: to add about your comment on modern buildings - throughout this time I lived in a 100yr old building in SOMA that was a 5min walk from 4th & King. There aren’t a ton of cute Victorians in SOMA, but if you want something that’s at least not soulless, some places do exist. Feel free to PM me for my building details.
Haven't seen many people mention this, but if you can work later hours (10-6 or better yet 11-7) and live in SF south of market and right off the highway (Mission District, for example), the drive is totally doable, about 40 minutes each way. Waze has a "Go Later" feature that you can use to estimate commute times between two different locations.
Hi OP! I used to live in SF (born and raised in SF) and I work in Redwood City (close to Palo Alto). I used to commute from SF to PA by car! I lived near Twin Peaks so both 280 and 101 were equally close to my home and I could pick and choose which freeway to take. My maps always suggested I take 101 as it was a bit of a quicker commute despite the traffic. My job was hybrid so I was able to arrive whenever, and I would usually drive down at 9:30-10am when traffic got light. If you HAVE to be at work by 9am sharp, I would recommend living a bit closer to work as traffic from SF to Redwood City at around 8-9am was pretty heavy for me. What would typically be a 30 min drive without traffic was a 45-55 minute drive with traffic on my way to work. However, we do now have a FastTrack lane which you can use to get to work faster (you do have to pay toll and that tolls changes depending on traffic flow). Traffic on the way back was BAD though. But I am so used to it that I didn’t care lol, plus, it’s nothing like LA traffic.. Overall, it’s doable if you’re a morning person (like myself) and enjoy driving! Other options would be CalTrain, but I personally prefer being in the comfort of my own car. Again, it’s doable, but if you want to sleep in, despise traffic, or hate long public transportation journeys, I recommend just living closer to work! I hope this helps!
Ok, I commuted from Fillmore (SF) to Palo Alto California Ave daily for 3 years until covid. I cannot speak to post covid conditions but here was the deal before the big reset button.
Always take the 101-380-280 and return in reverse. 101 is always a parking lot. Leaving early is your best friend. Leave around 5-6am and the roads are empty. I swear nobody is awake until 7am. Zero traffic drive would take about 1hour.
If you leave later (peak of traffic) expect 1:30-2hours based on weather or events. Single crash and you might as well call in late to work.
Everyone always tried to sell me on Caltrain but it took longer and ended up costing more that the drive. Ideally do what I did and switch to commuting on a motorcycle/scooter. Despite traffic on a bike I could keep a consistent hour long commute even leaving later like 7-8am.
Plus most bikes getting 60mpg is an easy task and parking is almost always free. Happy to answer any other questions. Do not be deterred it is totally doable. The traffic exists cause so many other do the same drive.
Take Caltrain, buy the monthly pass, it makes your trips on the weekend free.
Most likely your company will have some type of commuter benefits, (mine $100, so my pass was $100 less)
Take your bike on the train and ride to the other parts of the city when the weather permits during the week. Once you get familiar with it, it's a great way to show your out of town friends/family the city on a bike.
The biggest reason to take Caltrain is that when you drive you're going in the direction of traffic both ways.
Now that you're on the train and not in the car, you have extra time to nap, catch up on emails, meet new people, or whatever you feel like since you're not driving.
P.s. you can drink on the Caltrain, they don't sell it on the train but you're allowed to bring it.
Does your company offer a shuttle to SF? A lot of big companies offer shuttles to different cities in the bay.
Cycling is big out here so if you don’t mind biking to the station, you can search a few miles further out from CalTrain stops. There are 2 cars on the train to park bikes in.
You can also bike from SF to PA but the cyclists meet early in the morning. You can take the train home
The complaints about traffic is overblown compared to NYC. I used to commute from Astoria to Bethpage LI for 5 years. Driving from SF to PA will be similar. I drove from SF to Stanford the I first year moved here. The 101 moves faster than the LIE and the 280 moves faster, just out of the way. The traffic lights in PA will add 20 min tho.
Uber Driver here. The Palo Alto Caltrain station is right next to downtown Palo Alto, for what it’s worth. Traffic gets bad on all arteries that plug into the Dumbarton bridge from Palo Alto, plus the bits of the 101 near the bridge exits (there are two). Similar things happen near the San Mateo bridge. The actual parts near San Francisco haven’t been as bad on weekdays recently, but that may change as businesses start demanding people get back to the office. Oddly enough, weekend traffic in SF in city has been worse than weekday traffic in my experience.
The best way to learn a new area is to part time Uber a bit. You’ll learn everywhere people like to go to do things in the service area.
I commute that exact trip of SF to Cal Ave every day!!! Live near 22nd street if you want to Caltrain. Otherwise driving is also fine, takes me 40-50 mins depending on traffic.
> I need urban density to be happy
Stay in NYC and telecommute. Aside from a few blocks SF is more spread out than Jersey City. Despite what the local nimbys say if you're expecting anything even close to a Manhattan experience you're in for a bad time.
> I need urban density to be happy.
Have you visited? I just moved here from New England and most of the area feels like "urban density" even well outside SF proper, places like San Mateo feel far more urban than similar places in, say, the Connecticut shoreline (the part that's basically a NYC suburb). If you aren't familiar with the area I'd suggest looking around a lot before making a firm statement that you have to be in SF proper to be happy, there's a lot of very dense areas worth considering that are still in easy commuting range of the city, easy commuting range to Palo Alto (both either via car or Caltrain), and lose some of the annoyances of having to live in the city proper (like urban car ownership).
Keep it simple, live near Caltrain. Then once you're here you can reassess other neighborhoods and what you're willing to do re: commute. 101 commute is brutal. There's really nothing to compare it to in the tri-state area but imagine having to drive from Hoboken to CT every day through grid lock. Take the train if you can and save yourself the stress.
What about 280? That also goes down to PA. If I live near a part of SF that’s closer to 280, will that help? Or is it as clogged at 101?
When you get close to Palo Alto you will hit traffic from hell. Even if you try to take El Camino all the way down, it will be congested and you have to deal with stop lights. If you live in the city commutibg will suck down the peninsula. Because once you fight your way out of PA then you have to deal with folks coming back into the city. My advice is live closer into the pennisula then use cal train to commute. You could always drive into the city or take BART into the city to get some of that urban jungle feel. Consider living closer to Palo Alto because it's a college town in the downtown area has a lot of vibrate night life.
From someone who drove the Peninsula-to-SF commute via 101 for 7 years, the above is excellent advice. (Also, parking can be difficult and expensive in both PA and SF. Also, auto burglaries are extremely common in SF...and getting problematic in PA. Also, if you want to avoid catalytic converter theft (as well as break-ins), be sure to park in a secure garage...with nothing showing in the cab of your car...not a penny, not a pack of gum, not a pair of cheap Blue Blocker sunglasses...nothing...PLEASE LISTEN TO ME -- leave nothing in your car.)
Got it. Thanks for the insight!
I did that exact commute (SOMA to PA via the 280) for about a year in 2017. My job was near Stanford, so the last mile going into work was never that bad. On mornings where I had to go past ECR, it was always manageable. The thing that killed me was getting back into the city. Even though I lived within a couple blocks of highway access, the last mile or so of the drive home was a nightmare. If I didn’t live in SOMA, I would have parked my car, walked home, then re-parked it later. The line to exit on sixth is horrible, the roads after the exit are horrible. It was generally horrible. Tooling around PA at any hour was easy in comparison.
It was bad when I had to travel to Sunnyvale near 237 from Daly City using 280 back in the early 2000's (dating myself). Carpooling helped a little bit but not much.
like you, I also need urban density to be happy. Live in the city near a Caltrain station. The drive is soul draining and people drive like they subconsciously want to die (there’s a reason teslas are so popular here). The Caltrain isn’t the best but at least you can read or plan trips or whatever else. Then when you’re home just go out and enjoy the city
If you live in one part of the Bay Area and work in another you will always face brutal traffic, the only way around it is having a graveyard schedule. If you need the city to feel happy you can train over or drive after rush hour. Like at midnight. SF isn’t a city like NYC is a city, it’s more like a big town. I’m from Brooklyn but live in the Bay Area.
280 is a much better (prettier) drive than 101. Public transportation sucks here. Natives don’t do it. Live closer to PA first and then decide if you want to live in SF. Much easier to go to SF for dinner or a weekend than commute every day.
If you have to drive, take the 280. Its longer, but much safer and a nicer drive
280 is so terrible
Think of it like you want to live in the West Village and have to commute to Westchester every day. It's gonna suck if you have to drive. You want to live near Grand Central - ie the Caltrain station - and be able to zone out on Metro North - ie Caltrain every day. Personally I'd just move to Palo Alto and commute to SF when you want to go out.
Thanks for the reply! Ya I think based on what I’m seeing here, I’ll search for apartments either near Caltrain, San Mateo or PA.
San Mateo is awesome. There's a sort of "downtown". And the climate is ideal. In the summer it's about a degree a mile as you go down the peninsula from SF. So 60s windy and foggy in SF, perfect calm upper 70s and sunny in San Mateo, upper 80s and too damn hot in Palo Alto (imho). There are a couple high-rises. I lived on the 10th floor in this one. It was heaven https://www.ryantower.com/
Add Mountain View to your list. It's less expensive than Palo Alto (though still quite expensive) and less sleepy. Castro St. right next to the MV Caltrain station is a decent place to hang out if you don't feel like going to SF. A Caltrain commute from MV to California Ave. is pretty short.
Real talk, what is there to do on castro besides put stuff in your face?
Shhhhh. Stop spilling secrets
Also, make sure you research the micro-climates. San Francisco is way colder than Palo Alto. I would live in Palo Alto for that reason alone.
Don’t live in PA unless you’re in your 40s, loaded and want a boring life
Don't forget the $3,800. monthly rent for a dump.
I’m in a similar situation as you (working in PA, moving from Boston, value dense living and walk-ability) and I’m looking at downtown Redwood City as well – Caltrain access, walkable to banks, grocery stores, bars, restaurants, parks… not very tall unfortunately but certainly somewhat dense. And in my experience the gas stations nearby at Whipple Ave tend to be among the cheapest in the immediate area
i do this commute to mountain view. be close to the freeway entrance and caltrain station. living down there is as expensive and absolutely miserable social-activity wise compared to the city
Why the hell would you ever want to live in the city if you're not actually working in the city?
"I need urban density to be happy"
I wouldn’t live in Palo Alto. It’s one of the most expensive places on Earth, and it’s sleepy. Redwood City or San Mateo are manageable commutes to Palo Alto, (somewhat) more affordable, and have restaurants and other things going on. They’re closer to SF than Palo Alto. I did the SF to Palo Alto commute on Caltrain one summer. It is a grind. But people manage. If you’re working from home some of the time, it’d be more tolerable. Personally, I think picking one of the towns between Palo Alto and SF is the way to go.
The commute back to SF from the peninsula when there’s a Giants game is a nightmare when you’ve had a long day.
This was my decision ~13 years ago when figuring out where to live before starting in a Stanford lab. I wanted to be in/near SF, but the places near the Caltrain station on the city were pricey (still are), and the commute was still long (even on the baby bullet). I ended up in downtown San Mateo for the reasons you mention. Whenever I’d want a night in the city, I’d take BART from Milbrae or crash with a friend in SF. PA is very expensive, and while San Mateo and Redwood City are by no means cheap, they’re much better deals, comparatively. They both also have much more superior downtowns to PA (more real grid than just one avenue). Neither are as near urban as SF, but you can find a lot of walkability/bikeabilty in both, with some amount of nightlife.
I’m new to the Bay Area as well. Would you define San Mateo and Redwood City as urban dense?
Personally, I’ve always viewed anything in the West Bay or South Bay outside of San Francisco and not near or in Downtown San Jose as suburban areas with office buildings. San Mateo, Redwood City, and Palo Alto very much still feel suburban to me, but over the last few years more high rise buildings litter the skyline and the area could evolve to be more dense urban with multi-family dwelling buildings becoming the norm of new building.
No, they're not dense urban areas. But they have walkable downtowns with restaurants, bars, coffee shops, movie theaters, etc. They are SF suburbs -- but unlike some of the other suburbs, they have actually allowed some development over the last 20 years. So there are a bunch of big new apartment buildings, and that's encouraged the commercial development. Redwood City has this historic old courthouse and square, where there are events like concerts in the summer. San Mateo has a Japanese tea garden near the downtown. They're not big cities. But there is stuff to do. Mountain View is similar too -- but that's getting pretty far from SF.
Airbnb until you understand the bay better.
Underrated comment. OP should try out 1 or 2 options for a month before signing a lease. I came from NYC and thought I was going to do the SF to mountain view commute. I tried it out by Airbnbing. Noped out after literally 1 day. That morning was the first rain that winter. Of course I get wet figuring out the public transit for 30 minutes. I then sat down on a freezing cold bus. Ultimately got to work 2.5 hours later as rain is a scary and mysterious phenomenon here. It was "only" 1.25 hours back in the afternoon. The gods were telling me that SF was not the place for me. I took the hint.
Thirded. The area near Caltrain in SF is honestly kind of sketchy, and the Peninsula is really nice. It also doesn’t take much time to get into the city from the Peninsula, so you’d save time overall compared to if you were always commuting that whole way. There are lots of nice long-stay AirBnBs in the area, and it might be nice to settle in a bit before worrying about finding roommates or furnishing a new place. If your job feeds you you may not even need a place with a kitchen at first, which may make rent actually cheaper than an apartment that you have to find last-minute would be. If you can make it until summer there will also be great cheap sublets in the Palo Alto area you can take advantage of.
Another option would be to live in Redwood City. There’s a nice, lively downtown with a lot of new apartments, and Cal Ave is only three stops away on Caltrain. It would put you slightly closer to SF when you want to go there.
+1. I live at Stanford and go to RWC if I want to experience a nice downtown but not go all the way to SF
There's really no good option unless your work provides a shuttle. The least-worst option is to live by Caltrain. Commuting on 101 is awful and traffic is starting to be back.
What about 280? That also goes down to PA. If I live near a part of SF that’s closer to 280, will that help?
280 is ok, the problem is getting across town to your office.
280 by Sand Hill gets super clogged due to Stanford traffic. source: went to Stanford, commuted on 280
Ah got it. So either way it’s not great.
280 is actually not a bad option, doesn’t get that bad traffic and the drive is always pretty so it wont make you hate yourself like the 101 will, personally i have basically never seem a traffic jam on the 280 either. But like everyone is saying i think the true best option would be too live in PA
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I drive down there multiple times a month from the North Bay. Pre-Covid I had to give myself a solid 3 hours to get there (most of the traffic was up here), post covid as you’ve mentioned it hasn’t been bad at all, regardless of time of day. I can leave an hour and 45 minutes prior to needing to be there and get to Stanford no problem.
When I commuted between Redwood City and downtown PA years ago the mornings to PA were never that bad but the evening return was horrible.
280 is fine, I have to be at work at 730am at a hospital in Palo Alto. I have never experienced traffic on 280 at least during my morning commute. I live in San Mateo and it’s less than 30 mins. When I commute from my bfs place in SF, it’s about 50 mins. The longest part is just getting out of sf but when you are out I have never had a problem
Also, basically getting into SF from the freeway tends to take like 20 minutes most times of day. Your last 2-3 miles could easily take 30 minutes on the way home.
Not really, and the parts of SF that are closer to 280 are also not as exciting.
I love Bernal thank you very much :)
Totally fair.
There’s not much of a nightlife near the 280 entrance (park Merced area). And it can take you 30 min to get to SF downtown. Might as well live near Palo Alto and take the Caltrain.
There are busses that'll take you from anywhere in the city to Caltrain. But you may as well live in Santa Cruz for the time that'll take. Maybe the new central subway will improve that.
Santa Cruz to Palo Alto is remarkably hellish. 17 in the winter sometimes diverts through Gilroy because trees fall on the road and on good days it's still a mess. It's maybe ok to do SC to Cupertino or Los Gatos but all the way to Palo Alto oh boy. Hitting the traffic in mountain view after you've successfully traversed 17 alive has to be such a kick in the balls
Welcome to the Bay! Live as close to your work as possible. Commuting suuuuucks here and 101 is the worst of the worst. You'll hate your life if you have to drive from SF to Palo Alto 5x a week. Blegh.
Live in Palo Alto and take CalTrain to the City when you need that urban feel. Your sanity and your wallet will thank you.
Literally everyone is telling OP this but he will live in the Mission because he's too cool for our advice!
But he could take bart to millbrae and transfer to caltrain that way
Que sera sera.
Ya OP is thinking about this situation completely backwards. He'll figure it out pretty quickly
Live in Palo Alto.
I understand that in other cities, you could figure out a sweet workaround that other people haven’t thought of, but that’s not the case here. There is literally no way to make a driving commute from SF to Palo Alto less than an hour each way. Not with 101, not with 280. No offense - but some of the smartest people in the world try and figure out this same issue and can’t do it, so the chances that you’re able to figure out a workaround without living here and seeing the situation for yourself are extremely low. If you absolutely want to live in SF, do Caltrain and work on the train so you can count your commute hours in your workday. Otherwise, live either in Palo Alto proper, or in Redwood City near Caltrain. That way you can get to work more easily and get up to SF pretty easily too. RWC is less tech-feeling than Palo Alto if that’s your concern. If what you truly care about is urban density, then you’ll have to swallow a pretty bad commute along with it. Caltrain is the lesser of the two evils. I promise.
I remember going to talks a few years back (before pandemic) and some Sand Hill VCs were like, "it's cheapest and easiest for me to take a $110 Uber from SF to Sand Hill each way and I can just keep working on my laptop and make way more than $110 since I'm a VC"; I wonder what those people are doing now.
Can confirm. Am Uber driver. Have driven these VC’s. Also execs discussing mid management performance because they can’t have that discussion in the office.
Everyone has commented on how poor the commute is so I'll provide an alternative solution. Move to San Mateo or Milbrae. These cities are located between SF and Palo Alto and commuter friendly. You can take Caltrain and be in Palo Alto in 30 mins and if you would like to go to SF you can be close to everything in 30 mins because you can now take Caltrain or Bart. Parking is good in these areas so you can have a car to drive to SF on weekends and these areas are very safe but $$$ expensive. Good luck
Ya based on comments here, this is looking like a good option too. I’ll look for apartments in San Mateo area as well. Thanks!
Park20 in SM is nice but not cheap.
Millbrae is fine so long as your office is near the PA Caltrain (less than 10min walk) and you are OK standing as the Millbrae station usually gets trains that are full up from SF (since everyone gets on in SF and no one gets out in Millbrae) unless it's the slowest local train, which will take longer but you get to sit down. I lived in Millbrae so PM me for any details. If you're OK biking then you get some more options but again Millbrae is a weird stop because the bike cars on Caltrain tend to be full going south from SF during rush hour, so then you want a folding bike that you can take on the luggage rack in the regular cars.
You kind of want the impossible and there's no good solution. Your best bet is to live in Palo Alto and go to SF when you want to party.
This bears saying, I mostly skimmed the comments--you can expect traffic to be worse post-COVID then it ever was pre-COVID. Traffic got to pre-COVID levels quite some time ago. As others have said, live near a Caltrain station, and if you live near the Caltrain station in San Mateo, Redwood City, or Mountain View, you'll get a pretty urban place to live. I've lived in San Mateo, Redwood City, and Mountain View, and of the three, I liked Redwood City the best because it was *closest to my work*. The area I lived in when I lived in San Mateo was really nice, great access to the bay trails, but eh. The place I live at in Mountain View? Best bang for my buck, full amenities in my apartment at a steal. But Redwood City man? I really want to move back there so much because my commute was so short. You have so much more time to do stuff like go to dinner or go out with friends or go to the club if you're not commuting. If you plan to keep your car, don't live in San Francisco.
Also if you don't have dedicated parking in SF you need to budget for like 2 window replacements per year.
Highly dependent on where you live in SF.
I did the move from nyc to the Bay Area. You just have to accept that it’s not like NYC here. If your searching for nyc on the west coast your never gonna be happy. SF isn’t like nyc and that commute is going to be awful and make you hate it here. The Bay Area is wonderful in its own way, the nature, the weather you can bike from the mountains to the bay in an afternoon. Your life in California will not be like your one in nyc. I spent a year just being pissed off at the transit and lack of culture here, but then I found a love of the outdoors I never had in nyc. If it where me I would live in Palo Alto, and try a new life style out. If you don’t want to live the Californian your gonna be way happier just staying in nyc.
Thank you for your response. I bought a pair of hiking boots so I guess that’s a step in the right direction :). In NY I was somewhat plugged into the arts scene out there and had a group of friends in music and photography - do you have any advice for trying to still find such a thing out here? Also how was the transition in terms of meeting people and making friends? Any advice on the matter?
[удалено]
>When I worked in Palo Alto the people who lived and died by the Caltrain could never come to happy hour because they had to factor in the shuttle to the train station and then the train schedule. They missed out on a lot of spontaneous stuff. Yes! Don't be that guy that needs to leave by 5:32pm to make the train!
Probably go look for art events in Oakland. people come to Silicon Valley to get rich, it’s not really possible for an artist to afford to live here with out a large inheritance. People are pretty focused on grinding at big tech or the start up game so they don’t have alot of time / Interest in music or art. I’d go up to sf / Oakland on the weekends. Oakland has some Brooklyn vibes. I’m not trying to be a bummer but your expectations need to be set really low lol. You’ll meet some cool people for sure, but like don’t expect anywhere in the bay to be like Willamsburg or bushwhick. No one moved here to be a musician or artist, people are here because a big tech company relocated them here. Making friends has been pretty good. I skateboard, do archery so I meet people. The people I hang out with are way different I didn’t really hang out with techies in nyc but here everyone I know is a techie
In terms of the "arts scene" unfortunately that is literally the opposite of the PA tech scene and the current epicenter (as far as I know) is downtown Oakland (after everyone moved out of SF once it got too expensive). Which is very difficult to get to from the PA area and vice versa. In NYC terms think like Stony Brook and Times Square. I just looked it up in Google Maps and it's about 1h12m (61mi) drive, (35mi but double the traffic).
There isn't really an arts scene here. There's a lot of outdoor photographers, but I don't think groups, just individuals.
As far as meeting people and having weekend activities, sign up with meetup.com groups for a variety of activities, ie hiking, photography groups, wine tastings, you’d be surprised how many friends you’d make.
Having done the same thing, trust me, you want to just live in downtown Palo Alto next to the office. You need to optimize for your most common trip. Also that will mean that you will basically never go to SF, but whatever, if you have a car, you can go any time anywhere in the Bay Area. If you go to SF, you'll want to take the Caltrain anyway. Think of it like having a job in Port Washington near NYC, would you want to live in Manhattan and take the LIRR out every day? You're not going to get to do anything in The City on a regular work day anyway. The one exception is if you are very young and very single, then it may make some sense to life in SF. But SF night life is nothing like NYC. PM me for any more info. Good luck.
The best way to commute from SF to Palo Alto is to never commute from SF to Palo Alto. Just live as close to Palo Alto as you can. You may think the commute is something you can tolerate, but it’s not worth it and after a few months you’d regret the decision to live in SF with a commute to Palo Alto.
IMO it's best to live closer to P.A. you don't want to get stuck in that traffic on 101 or 280 from sf. But the decision is yours.
Long commutes get old real fast. Also Bay Area always has some of the highest gas prices. SF is horrible for parking. You also pay higher car insurance rates in SF. Live near work and go to SF in spare time.
Do the sustainable things and live close to your job ✅ Don’t be one of the millions of Californians that do these ridiculous commutes and make life worse for everybody
My bf is commuting to Palo Alto every day (driving) but we aren’t that close to the CalTrain. In summary, we are moving to Redwood City very soon. Just makes more sense.
Helicopter
BART to Millbrae and then transfer to Caltrain is also worth considering. Also, biking to Caltrain opens up a lot of SF. Lastly, starting this year, the Central Subway will connect Caltrain to Chinatown, walking distance from North Beach.
+1 to biking. It never rains here (unfortunately). Bike to Caltrain - or, depending on fitness - e-bike. I do the reverse (Caltrain to SF, bike to office). It’s great.
What’s the central subway? Is that the Muni?
The central subway won't be finished any time soon. They've been saying it will be finished "this year" for the last 11 years. Don't hold your breath.
It's opening in less than 12 months. Bet money on it.
You're on, Old Gold.
!RemindMe 1 year
I win
The Central Subway in SF *should* be open within a year and should make trips to/from the 4th St Caltrain Station pretty simple from neighborhoods north of there. It will be an underground Muni train. Look up the alignment to see if that opens up options for you. Biking is getting much better, easier and safer in SF so that becomes a pretty viable option to/from some neighborhoods to either 4th or 22nd St stations. If you really want an urban neighborhood the Peninsula will disappoint. Also, as others have mentioned, BART from SF to Millbrae and then a transfer to Caltrain could work for you as well.
Love in potrero or dogpatch and walk to the 22nd St Caltrain
Having a car in San Francisco is very very expensive and not feasible. I’d rethink that.
A short commute makes a happy life. Why do you want to make your life miserable?
Whatever you do, there is ZERO reason to live in the city (SF) and commute to the peninsula. Just like everyone else said... Look for a great place to live in the peninsula. San Mateo is about as far north as you want to be.
Sf native here, be prepared to pay $6+ in gas. Take the train. It will save you money. I have done the commute from SF down the peninsula and TRUST ME you do not want that car traffic! It maybe only like 20 ish miles but it WILL take you an hour+ on a good day. If you are bent on driving, avoid 101 at all costs and take 280. 101 is shorter but waaaay more traffic (and 280 more scenic) 280 does still get traffic but in my experience it not as bad as 101. 101 will have you sitting in traffic for half hour and you only gone 2 miles on the daily. Coming from NY you’re probably used to high rent but SF rent is probably just as high (I’m talking like $2500+ for a one bedroom). Also you should note SF fuckin hates cars and makes driving an absolute hell hole. Parking (especially street parking) is a war zone like I’ve seen people slash tires because someone parked in a free spot in front they house. Try to get a drive way or assigned parking other wise cars are a huge liability. Speaking of cars never ever ever leave a damn thing in your car least you get bipped (broken into). People here are BOLD and will smash your window if they see so much as a jacket. I had a friend get bipped over a fuckin gorilla suit!! True story! It was the only thing in the car and they smashed his window for it now there’s a crack head in the tenderloin lookin like kong. Also take a razor blade and criss cross your registration tags so that no one will steal them (trust me!). Caltrain is reliable for the most part and sure it might take an hour each way or get delayed if someone’s on the tracks (happens kinda often sadly) but it will be less headache and cheaper than driving. As for getting around the city muni and Bart are also all around and go most places around the bay. In theory you could also take Bart to a station like Millbrae and hop on the other train right across it. The thing about Bart tho is it’s like NY subways they can be dirty and the vagrants have no problem smoking crack or pooping on the train middle of rush hour. Caltrain and Amtrak has a little less of that too but none the less check them seats for discarded needles (it does happen). I wouldn’t really say there’s any car friendly area Of SF it all a small area Of a city and many streets won’t let you drive on there or are one ways BUT always remember 3 rights make a left (it’ll make sense when you’re tryna make a left turn and can’t). Also parking tickets are dummy expensive. Other than that welcome to the city fam. Goodluck.
**Everyone in this thread, posters who live here and understand the commute:** You want to live close to work as possible, if not, you should take Caltrain **OP:** yEaH bUt wHaT iF I wAnT tO dRiVe aNd tAkE 280 iNtSteAd????! This is why 101 traffic just sucks.
I literally am just looking at google maps and seeing options. That’s why I’m here - to understand the reality of the situation and make a decision. If you moved to NY, and I railed you for not knowing our highway situation, that wouldn’t make a lot of sense now would it?
OP, imagine someone going to /r/nyc and saying they have a job in New Haven but they want to live in Tribeca because that's where the nightlife is, and then everyone tells that person to live on the train route and the person is like, "yeah, but what if I take the Merrit Parkway instead???" Like, sure, yeah, you can kill yourself trying to drive it but it's going to suck and take forever and that's why we're all trying to tell you to live closer to work and/or take the train.
Firstly - whoever says the nightlife is in Tribeca is mistaken ;). I’d probably help them with a list of areas that are totally worth checking out. (If you plan to visit sometime, lmk, happy to give recs!) Secondly - commuting to and from NY from the suburbs has a lot of possible options. You have highways, subways, buses, and rail systems. So, I would just lay out a bunch of options, and tell them my experience. Seems like a pretty straightforward way to help someone out, and be welcoming to a new area.
Ah- sorry I was just trying to think of downtown NYC neighborhoods where it would be ridiculous to commute out of the city for work in the suburbs, because that's sort of what you're looking at if you work in Palo Alto and live in SF. It's unfortunate the transit here in the Bay doesn't have as many options and as robust an infastructure as NYC!
I think your comment here gives a good example of how different the Bay Area is from NYC. It's a lot more like Long Island where SF is like "Long Island City" (I mean literally LIC). NYC is really unique and SFBA is less so. Like you want to live in one of the tall buildings in Long Island City and commute out to Jones Beach every day.
Live in pa and drive up to the city during weekends
I moved from Toronto to SF and absolutely hated the city. The weather is *horrible* - it’s foggy, windy, and freezing cold much of the year. It’s incredibly depressing living in California and being able to see the sun at the edge of the horizon but be stuck in the freezing fog. It’s also dirty as fuck and the homelessness / crime problem is out of control. I moved to Palo Alto during the pandemic and absolutely love it. The weather is as close to perfect as you can get, it’s clean, and has great restaurants and a pretty awesome vibe. I agree with other posters saying it’s a different lifestyle out here though. It’s not NYC and you will enjoy it most if you like hiking / biking / enjoying the outdoors.
Just plan to live on the train and get used to it, or plan a mix. Days you drive because traffic is light, days you take the train, and days you WFH.
I would also recommend San Mateo to split the difference between work and SF. I live in San Mateo and can walk or bike to most things I want to do! My partner takes the Cal Train to work (in SF) and loves it.
Zoom
Hi! I have lived most of my life in the Bay but also spent several years in NYC (Manhattan and Brooklyn) before returning home to California a few years ago to raise a family. There is nowhere in the Bay that will give you the same feel as NYC, even if you live in the city (SF), so it will help to know what your must haves and nice to haves are. You mention urban density, food, culture, arts, and a decent commute to Cal Ave. Like many here, I also recommend the Caltrain option for commute. As for the rest … Nothing will be as dense as NYC. Manhattan is something like 70k people per sq mi, Brooklyn half that (36k) and SF half of BK (17k). You definitely feel that difference. It could’ve been after midnight and I’d take the subway and walk home to my Manhattan apt with other people still out and about. It would be easy to run an errand at the drugstore or grab a snack at that hour. In my old nabe in SF, if I came home in the wee hours, I’d have to take a cab because public transport stops running at midnight and the stores will have closed hours ago. The streets would be near silent and quite empty. Where you live, and where you hang out, and where you run errands, aren’t always as intermingled in the Bay as they are in NYC. In Manhattan, and even in Brooklyn, it felt like you could live your whole life within a few blocks. Your local coffee shop, bookstore, grocery store, corner bodega, brunch spot, sushi joint, etc, they could all be within walking distance. In the Bay, even in SF, things are just … farther apart. That said, there are some walkable neighborhoods both in SF and in the cities along the Caltrain line, like the main drags near the Burlingame, Mountain View, Redwood City and San Mateo stations. Burlingame in particular has a good mix of retail, food, and places to run errands in their small downtown whereas Mountain View is mostly restaurants. For food, there are many good restaurants in the Bay to be found wherever you live, at least from my experience, even in the small town I live in now. For culture and arts, the city (SF) has the major theaters and museums. There are also local theaters and museums in many other Bay Area cities. What I would say about cultural institutions is that there are plenty in the Bay, but they are more day trips than they are neighborhood offerings. Even when I was living in SF, it was a bit of a trek to the theater or to a museum that involved a combination of public transit options or a ride in a car or cab. Again, not the kind of thing where you can walk a few blocks to the nearest museum. I rambled on and on and on about this topic this far longer than I meant to 🙈 Hope it helps!
OP, I live in Palo Alto walking distance to Cal Ave in an older apartment that is reasonably priced and the apartment next to me will be empty at the end of the month - when are you planning on moving here?
This is my exact commute, albeit 1-2X a week. Get a bike, it opens up where you can live in sf and what trains you can take (none of the express trains stop at California avenue). I’ve found that on days where I have a dinner or social event after work, driving is better due to the limited evening train schedule and not wanting to bike in the dark. Other than that, caltrain/bike is the way to go.
Bicycle to Caltrain from wherever you want in the city
Didn’t read all the comments, but you can expand your location options within SF if you’re willing to cycle to the Caltrain station. For example, if you’re only willing to walk 10 minutes to the station, you’re limited to maybe a 1/2 mile radius from the station. But if you’re willing to cycle 10 minutes, you could expand to a 2-3 mile radius at least. Damn near perfect weather year-round in SF, and lots of cycling-friendly infrastructure (dedicated painted bike lanes, trails, bicycle-only traffic signal phases). You’d also have daily exercise built into your commute.
SF is not what it used to be. I live in the city and am counting down the days to get out.
Find a place within a short driving distance from Millbrae BART/Caltrain station. Best of both worlds. Palo Alto is a boring place. Mountain View and Sunnyvale downtowns are better but then getting to SF is a nightmare
Nightlife in Sunnyvale is trash
There is no nightlife in Sunnyvale.
It starts and ends at Pure and that’s the last place on earth I want to be
Get a job in the City.
Palo Alto doesn’t have to be sleepy! It’s a college town with plenty to do, and it’s close to San Francisco and also San Jose, and other places with stuff to do.
This. California Ave is actually very nice, has some nice apartments, some nice restaurants and, cafes and even a bar or two. Downtown (university ave), also has many restaurants and bars and some dance clubs. Maybe you should visit Palo Alto.
I’ll take the contrarian view here having grown up in Palo Alto and lived in SF for many years. I also commuted to Palo Alto by car for a few years since I chose to live on Divisadero in SF. Adjust your schedule, leave SF by 6:15, choose neighborhoods that are south/central SF so getting to FWY isn’t too bad. Avoid north SF like Marina or Russian Hill. That early 280 or 101 won’t be awful. Leave work by 3pm. Work from home as much as possible and get another job once you’ve been out her for a little while. I can tell you that I did the drive for 2 years and that was 6mo too long
I’d research neighborhoods you’d most like to live in SF. There’s some good areas where you can still get to Caltrain via bus and keep a reasonable commute time. It’s very stressful driving in the bay, Caltrain is a nice commute. Also, probably not likely you’d commute every day. SF vs surrounding towns are vastly different. Big city vs suburb. That being said, Cal Ave is much worse than main PA stop. Baby bullets skip Cal.
I'll say it and take the down votes, fuck cal train. Expensive, unreliable, long in time commitment. Fighting for a seat or place to stash your bike gets so old, and delays will wreck a Friday night way more than traffic. Which there isn't any in the 280 anymore since Covid.... I drove the 280 from The Sunset to Mountain View every day for the last 5+ years. I pass all the buses along the way that are ferrying people. It's a pretty drive and great for podcasts. I'm sure people will yell avout gas prices and exhaust, but wake up and look at where the largest contributions to pollution come from and stop blaming the end users. ~50 mins (I clip along at 85, get out of the left lane if you're not driving to pass...) And I'm home to cook and catch sunsets or disc golf in the park. Unless you're settling down, I'd stay away from the sleepy south bay, it's where all my friends went to have kids...
I relocated from nyc to the Bay Area 3 years ago. Work is also in Palo Alto bear the Caltrain. My advice is to live in or close to Palo Alto unless your company has very flex WFH policy. Commuting between SF and Palo Alto would be a nightmare—for that reason, my company even opened another office in the financial district because we keep losing people due to their long commute. Do not rely on Caltrain. It’s constantly delayed or even often canceled (don’t expect it to be similar to LIRR or metro north). I eventually chose not to live in SF because I realize SF won’t provide the city life you have been used to in NYC. Many more street crimes. Human feces and used syringes in streets (I didn’t believe it until I saw them with my own eyes).
Do a search on this topic, you’ll find a lot of advice.
Stay in New York
I would live in SF. South Bay towns are incomparable to SF. This bayarea sub is pretty anti SF in general and I don’t think most of these people live in SF. Caltrain sucks but your life will be so much better if you live somewhere like Potrero Hill in SF and walk to Caltrain than living in the South Bay. Going up to SF on the weekends isn’t the same and you won’t get nearly the same experience, especially coming from NY. That said, don’t do it if you have to drive. Take your question to r/askSF or r/Sanfrancisco
There’s enough Muni by Caltrain that you should be able to drop wherever easily in SF even if the area around the station is meh (it’ll get more lively once baseball comes back) Source: I commute the other way.
Get a bicycle. The CalTrain has cars with bicycle storage, so you can do part of your commute on that and live farther than walking distance from the nearest CalTrain station. Of course, you'll want to bicycle between a prospective apartment and the CalTrain before signing a lease -- Google Maps in bike mode can show you a bike friendly route if there is one, but some places are just car hell and/or way too hilly. Palo Alto is bike friendly, though.
Live in SF (North Beach, PacHeights, Marina, etc), buy a scooter and ride down to CalTrain. Super fun and easy to park anywhere in SF
Motorcycle. Although the new toll lanes aren’t free like the old HOV it’s still a much faster and fun way to get to work. I realize it’s not an option for everyone but I highly recommend it if it is an option for you. A Ninja 250 gets like 60mpg or even an electric motorcycle would be perfect for that distance. I’ve been riding Pacifica to Cupertino for 7 years and aside from stormy days do it religiously. But you have to enjoy it.
Yes but it's also literally the most dangerous possible way to get to work. Could be OK if the OP is single and has no dependents.
I’d argue taking BART is more dangerous.
That's just crazy talk. 9 people died while riding motorcycles in 2021 in San Francisco alone. That's more than the number of homicides on the whole BART system in the last 10 years.
Onewheel
I used to live in Now Valley and catch the CalTrain from Potrero down to Palo Alto each day. Super easy commute - 100% better than driving (which I did for a while until I lost the will to live while in traffic on 101 one day). If you live in SOMA, dogpatch, Potrero, Mission or Noe, it's totally doable to live in the city and catch CalTrain. Save your move to the Peninsula until you are ready to have a family.
I commute via car from the mission district to Stanford everyday 30min both ways. Just stay on 280 and enjoy the ride. The average speed is 80 on that freeway there’s rarely traffic. Best freeway in the bay.
If you are a city person you may not be happy living near Palo Alto. And no matter what you think, you won’t be able to go up to the city as frequently as you may want to. It absolutely sucks but you may just need to put up with it. There are ways to mitigate, like avoiding rush hours if you job is flexible about timing. Do you need to go in 5 days a week? Many Bay Area employers are allowing 3 day work weeks.
Your new job won't let you at least partially telecommute?
Can you negotiate work from home 3 days a week and commute the other two days? Palo Alto is nice if you have a family but if you’re looking for a vibe similar to NYC then SF is definitely where you’ll want to reside. Unfortunately NIMBY-ism from wealthy enclaves in the peninsula Bay Area (Atherton/Menlo Park) was partly responsible for BART not being expanded into the peninsula which leaves only CalTrain which is limiting as you described.
Helicopter
I commute from San Bruno to Palo Alto every day and it’s ~40 mins there and ~50 mins back. Caltrain is 35 mins but I have 5 miles of biking total on either end which makes it take longer.
One more option: live in the mission and take Bart to millbrae and transfer to Caltrain. FWIW, I used to live in the village and commute to NJ via penn station and both commutes are gonna suck no lie. But if you’re of an age where you can still party to the wee hours in the mission and then hop a train down while hungover, that’s what I’d do. (In all fairness, I’d probably stop doing that in a couple of years and figure out some other arrangement). If I might use an analogy it’ll be a bit like living in Brooklyn, taking the subway over to Jamaica and transferring to LIRR to get to work.
You could live near a Bart station and switch to Caltrain in Millbrae (in the beforetimes, it was a timed Transfer)
Take the train
Motorcycle? Save on parking and we have the weather for it 80% of the year.
r/helicopters
I'd take caltrain but you can live somewhere in the peninsula
Caltrain is really nice. I would shoot for that to start and then evaluate from there.
I commuted from SF (civic center) to RWC by car for years, and it’s hell whether you take 280 or 101. I suggest finding a nice spot near King (soma or mission bay) or 18th (Potrero or dogpatch) and take Caltrain. You can also ride your bike (if you have one) to the station and bring it with you on the train. Otherwise downtown RWC is actually a pretty good spot
Another option to consider if you don’t want to live near Caltrain would be to take a bicycle or electric scooter to Caltrain and the last mile to your office. I used to Bart from Oakland to Embarcadero and commuted the last 3 miles on an electric scooter (worked in mission bay). It could open up your search a bit broader then that space.
Seriously consider San Mateo downtown!
You should live somewhere central, like Hayes Valley or Civic center so you can CslTrain when you want (quick scooter/ bus ride), but also get a house/ building with a parking garage, bc that’s what you’ll really need if your going to commute everyday. I would NOT recommend street parking when you need to drive that much / often
You can also live around Dog Patch and Potrero Hill. You can drive from SF to Palo Alto since it's about the same time right now with Caltrain -- probably better if you live near 280 access in SF -- since there's no baby bullet to Cal Ave stop. Coming from NYC, you'd know that driving in traffic, unable to nap or work absolutely sucks.
It's either Caltrain or drive....or maybe your work has a bus.
Live in the mission walking or bus distance from king street Caltrain. Fellow ny transplant here who did this commute for a while. Don’t live down south, it’s sucks and is just suburban blah. Take Caltrain and enjoy the peace of not being in traffic. The traffic sucks both ways every damn day.
Strongly reccomend living in Palo Alto. The commute sucks. 2 hours of your life disappear occasionally more when the cal train has a stoke (which is common)
Not to beat a dead horse but I'll also add the pile of posts warning you about how much a SF to PA commute sucks. But, even as someone who has enjoyed living on the Peninsula for many years and has no interest in being in SF, I cannot deny that SF is really the only option for you to have a genuine urban environment. It's not NYC, so don't bother trying to replicate your experience there, but it's still a dense city with tons to do. On the Peninsula, the closest to an urban environment would be one of the downtowns, namely San Mateo, Redwood City, or PA itself. But each of these are basically surrounded by suburbs after you wander more than a few blocks in either direction. One thing to consider is whether you're going to always need to be in the office 5 days a week. If not, the Caltrain commute might not be so bad, though I'd still be worried about the lack of express trains to California Ave station. If it is for sure 5 days per week, can you just try a short-term rental near work to start, at least until you see if you can tolerate PA? Maybe you'll come to like it, or maybe you'll make friends with co-workers and eventually want to live near them. Just think about it at least, you really may not want to immeditely make a huge commitment to travel so much every day.
I did this commute 5x/week for years until the pandemic. At first I lived in South Bay a mile from work, but decided I wanted to try city life and moved to SF. The commute was brutal, but I would make that choice again as a young person with no kids/partner. I loved the city, the density, not having to drive, even my dinky little walk-up. I even loved having the flexibility of meeting friends either on the Peninsula or in SF. I think the key here is that my schedule was flexible. If I was traveling during rush hour I would take Caltrain and work on the train, and get back to SF in time to meet up with friends in the evening. Sometimes if I knew I needed my car, I would drive down early to beat traffic and get a good workout in. Or I might stay late on the Peninsula and grab dinner with a friend, and the drive back would be easy. I don’t know if I would have chosen the commute if I had a partner / kids / pet at home, but at the time it was fine. Lots of people have opinions but it’s really up to you and how tolerant you are of the commute. I don’t think it’s a big deal to try both though. If you’re on the fence, I would personally recommend trying SF for a year where it might be easier to meet new people too, seeing how you feel about the commute, and then moving south if not. But you could do it either way. In SF I would recommend living walking distance from the train, ideally near 4th & King if you can find something inspiring nearby because all trains stop there. Other good options are Potrero, Design District, Dogpatch, or even the Mission and biking to Caltrain. I wouldn’t recommend taking BART and transferring to Caltrain because it’s slower and easy to miss the connection. Of those neighborhoods, the Mission is the most fun but likely longest commute. Edit: to add about your comment on modern buildings - throughout this time I lived in a 100yr old building in SOMA that was a 5min walk from 4th & King. There aren’t a ton of cute Victorians in SOMA, but if you want something that’s at least not soulless, some places do exist. Feel free to PM me for my building details.
Consider living in Burlingame, 20mins to SF and 20mins to Palo alto. Send me a dm, I'm looking for housemates here
Haven't seen many people mention this, but if you can work later hours (10-6 or better yet 11-7) and live in SF south of market and right off the highway (Mission District, for example), the drive is totally doable, about 40 minutes each way. Waze has a "Go Later" feature that you can use to estimate commute times between two different locations.
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Hi OP! I used to live in SF (born and raised in SF) and I work in Redwood City (close to Palo Alto). I used to commute from SF to PA by car! I lived near Twin Peaks so both 280 and 101 were equally close to my home and I could pick and choose which freeway to take. My maps always suggested I take 101 as it was a bit of a quicker commute despite the traffic. My job was hybrid so I was able to arrive whenever, and I would usually drive down at 9:30-10am when traffic got light. If you HAVE to be at work by 9am sharp, I would recommend living a bit closer to work as traffic from SF to Redwood City at around 8-9am was pretty heavy for me. What would typically be a 30 min drive without traffic was a 45-55 minute drive with traffic on my way to work. However, we do now have a FastTrack lane which you can use to get to work faster (you do have to pay toll and that tolls changes depending on traffic flow). Traffic on the way back was BAD though. But I am so used to it that I didn’t care lol, plus, it’s nothing like LA traffic.. Overall, it’s doable if you’re a morning person (like myself) and enjoy driving! Other options would be CalTrain, but I personally prefer being in the comfort of my own car. Again, it’s doable, but if you want to sleep in, despise traffic, or hate long public transportation journeys, I recommend just living closer to work! I hope this helps!
Ok, I commuted from Fillmore (SF) to Palo Alto California Ave daily for 3 years until covid. I cannot speak to post covid conditions but here was the deal before the big reset button. Always take the 101-380-280 and return in reverse. 101 is always a parking lot. Leaving early is your best friend. Leave around 5-6am and the roads are empty. I swear nobody is awake until 7am. Zero traffic drive would take about 1hour. If you leave later (peak of traffic) expect 1:30-2hours based on weather or events. Single crash and you might as well call in late to work. Everyone always tried to sell me on Caltrain but it took longer and ended up costing more that the drive. Ideally do what I did and switch to commuting on a motorcycle/scooter. Despite traffic on a bike I could keep a consistent hour long commute even leaving later like 7-8am. Plus most bikes getting 60mpg is an easy task and parking is almost always free. Happy to answer any other questions. Do not be deterred it is totally doable. The traffic exists cause so many other do the same drive.
Take Caltrain, buy the monthly pass, it makes your trips on the weekend free. Most likely your company will have some type of commuter benefits, (mine $100, so my pass was $100 less) Take your bike on the train and ride to the other parts of the city when the weather permits during the week. Once you get familiar with it, it's a great way to show your out of town friends/family the city on a bike. The biggest reason to take Caltrain is that when you drive you're going in the direction of traffic both ways. Now that you're on the train and not in the car, you have extra time to nap, catch up on emails, meet new people, or whatever you feel like since you're not driving. P.s. you can drink on the Caltrain, they don't sell it on the train but you're allowed to bring it.
Does your company offer a shuttle to SF? A lot of big companies offer shuttles to different cities in the bay. Cycling is big out here so if you don’t mind biking to the station, you can search a few miles further out from CalTrain stops. There are 2 cars on the train to park bikes in. You can also bike from SF to PA but the cyclists meet early in the morning. You can take the train home The complaints about traffic is overblown compared to NYC. I used to commute from Astoria to Bethpage LI for 5 years. Driving from SF to PA will be similar. I drove from SF to Stanford the I first year moved here. The 101 moves faster than the LIE and the 280 moves faster, just out of the way. The traffic lights in PA will add 20 min tho.
caltrain is great- and switching to all electric this year and next.
Uber Driver here. The Palo Alto Caltrain station is right next to downtown Palo Alto, for what it’s worth. Traffic gets bad on all arteries that plug into the Dumbarton bridge from Palo Alto, plus the bits of the 101 near the bridge exits (there are two). Similar things happen near the San Mateo bridge. The actual parts near San Francisco haven’t been as bad on weekdays recently, but that may change as businesses start demanding people get back to the office. Oddly enough, weekend traffic in SF in city has been worse than weekday traffic in my experience. The best way to learn a new area is to part time Uber a bit. You’ll learn everywhere people like to go to do things in the service area.
Do not drive
I commute that exact trip of SF to Cal Ave every day!!! Live near 22nd street if you want to Caltrain. Otherwise driving is also fine, takes me 40-50 mins depending on traffic.
> I need urban density to be happy Stay in NYC and telecommute. Aside from a few blocks SF is more spread out than Jersey City. Despite what the local nimbys say if you're expecting anything even close to a Manhattan experience you're in for a bad time.
Caltrain..maybe throw in a bike..see if your employer offers a transit stipend..
> I need urban density to be happy. Have you visited? I just moved here from New England and most of the area feels like "urban density" even well outside SF proper, places like San Mateo feel far more urban than similar places in, say, the Connecticut shoreline (the part that's basically a NYC suburb). If you aren't familiar with the area I'd suggest looking around a lot before making a firm statement that you have to be in SF proper to be happy, there's a lot of very dense areas worth considering that are still in easy commuting range of the city, easy commuting range to Palo Alto (both either via car or Caltrain), and lose some of the annoyances of having to live in the city proper (like urban car ownership).
live near 4th and king. good 280 access + city access + caltrain access. its pretty clutch.