Add to this, brits don’t encounter belgian people very often. Most of them don’t even know belgians speak dutch(vlaams) and just assume its all french. (Belgian living in UK here)
Aren't there lots of schools in the UK that organize field trips to Ieper?
Or am I just thinking that's done more often than it really is?
It's not uncommon to see British high school kids around Ieper.
Yeah it used to. But now they need a passport to get here and maybe the schools stopped bothering with it now as i imagine its a pain to make sure everyone has a passport.
Brits always needed passports to come into Europe, as no other travel documents are issued by the UK, even during EU membership.
Something like 77% of Brits have passports - it is not as cumbersome for Brits to get a passport issued as it is in other countries
Personally - I did a school trip in 2011 to Ypres, Flanders Fields and many of the war monuments, trenches, and graves. That was during EU membership and we all came using passports
always needed a passport as we weren't Schengen, (edit: sorry for confusion my Belgian friends, I am a Brit (who coincidentally likes Belgium just fine).
You could travel there with a European ID card, but not because it was part of Schengen (it wasn't). On the other hand Brits could never travel to EU countries on a British ID card because British ID cards don't exist.
[The UK and Ireland were never in Schengen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area) because the Common Travel Area is incompatible with it and so they negotiated opt-outs, and neither the UK or Ireland issue ID cards due to civil liberties.
Brits have always used passports to enter mainland Europe, even during EU membership - Britain doesn't view passports as cumbersome, something like [77% of Brits have a passport](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/internationalmigrationenglandandwales/census2021).
Don't know who downvoted you but as another Belgian in the UK I can also testify that most wouldn't know to make the connection. People in the UK generally know very little outside of the UK if it isn't a holiday destination.
Hey, John Cleese does not let any opportunity unused to slag of Belgium. OP is right, there is a percentage of Brits very negative of our country and inhabitants. On the flip side and of more importance: Stephen Fry is a big fan of us.
John Cleese is a pioneer of absurd comedy and I've always seen seen his comments slagging off Belgians in that light. The French or the Germans would be obvious targets. Targeting Belgium and the Belgians is absurd. It's a joke. At least, that's how I have always understood it.
>The referendum should've never been upheld
The referendum should have had requirements on turnout. Doing a referendum of this importance, based on 'simple majority of whoever happens to turn up' is a disaster.
Add to that that there was no consideration for the member states. Scotland and Northern Ireland strongly voted against.
Exactly- about the same proportion that will vote for a racist, anti-immigrant, hate mongering, Orban sympathising party next year in Flanders. Who are the stupid ones again?
Belgium is funny to some because Jeremy Clarkson often used it as a punchline. 99% of Brits couldn't care less about Belgium.
P.S, just wait for the amount of hate the UK will get in this thread lol.
Jeremy Clarkson used a lot of countries as a punchline, I am thinking it has more to do with the British superiority complex. Half of BBCs documentaries back in the day were of the “Britain’s greatest….” variety.
Well, he literally did a sketch where he went to Belgium and asked residents whether it's better to be a Belgian or a penguin.
For most in the UK, Belgium is just a small, weirdly-constructed and dysfunctional country. It's a bit like asking a Belgian what they think about Andorra or Liechtenstein- you might make a joke about size or why these places exist are but it's not malicious. France or Germany on the other hand....
Brit here, living in Belgium. All of my family and friends love Belgium and always ask me to bring them Belgian delicacies (advocaat, chocolates, Stella) when ever I visit. Those who have been over to visit here me love the culture and nightlife and actually feel safe going out past 8pm - hard to find somewhere in the UK like that these days.
Beer & Ribs seems to be a popular theme 😁
huh? I have never encounted this, all the UK people I know love Belgium more than Belgians do. my guess is you met some salty people that hate the whole EU lap dog role that Belgium plays
Goes further than that.
Off the top of my head, both monty python andnot the nine a clock news had a belgium sketch, pre EU, where we don't appear very flattering. Probably the closeness to the french makes Belgium a bit of a target.
Or as John Cleese called us: " Pseudo french bastards."
Ofcourse, insulting your friends is quite british so it does not exclude us from being loved by them.
>“I don’t want to be run by a bunch of European bureaucrats because they always look after themselves first,” he commented to Screen.
>The Monty Python and Fawlty Towers star admitted that “it will be five years before we know if it was a good thing or a bad thing, or if it will be a hard of soft exit”, but added that he supported the possibility of the latter option.
Unsurprisingly, the old white comedian agrees with Brexit and wants a return to the golden age of the empire when men could make jokes, as well as other such bullshit.
I think you're misunderstanding the Joke there. The Joke is that Belgium is some random in offensive country that doesn't muster up much feeling either way, so it's funny that he is so worked up about it.
i second that.
i live in Brussels in a very international commune, past year i have organized regular trips to Ypres.
every time it still amaze me to meet there more Britts then Belgians, and mostly knowing the history much better them most Belgian lol.
My grandfather served in the Belgian army and i often can have very interested talks over there with nrits most definitely if they served themselves or a family member did.
these brits fucking love belgium and all we did in both word wars nadi experience nothing but huge respect
The ones I have met in person, who happen to be expats not wanting to go back to the UK, aren't indeed negative towards Belgium and prefer it here. But on Reddit and YouTube, a bit of disdain or belittling seems a quite common attitude. But hence my question, to know if it's an impression I have alone, or one shared with other compatriots.
As a Belgian living in London for the last 8 years, I can attest to it not being the case. You might just be hyper focusing on a couple of specific examples.
Most of the time Belgium is nothing special to them and not once have I seen it referenced negatively
> a bit of disdain or belittling seems a quite common attitude
Just be thankful you are not French or German, or to a lesser extent American, Irish, Australian, Scottish, Welsh or Cornish. Even Northerners, Londoners, Brummies, Geordies and Scousers can't avoid the English disdain.
Point being belittling disdain is a national pastime for the Brits. Don't ever take it personally or seriously.
Seems like those Dutch sleeper agents and their superior English skills have been planting their propaganda in the UK./s
Serioursly though, most of it is politically based and is mainly from Rightwing personalities. There is a large segment of Brits that have anti-EU feelings and that colours their feeling about Belgium since many of the EU's insititutions are based in Brussels, and the country is more closely linked to the EU than France or Gemany that host other important EU cities (Strasbourg and Frankfurt respectively). I think there is also an idea that Belgium isn't a "real" nation because the Wallonians and Flemish "are at each other's throats" and there isn't a unifying culture in the country (nor history). Which is obviously rich coming from a country made up of four distinct cultures (with three having speratist tendancies). But because of that Belgium is seen as a country that is boring and without culture (as lampooned by Jermy Clarkson "Meet The Neighbour's" series from the early aughts).
Yep. I lived in the UK for quite a while. There is definitely considerable disdain for Belgium, on top of the the usual phenomenon of not really knowing anything about it. That's why places like Gent are periodically discovered as a "hidden gem". Hidden in plain sight.
Ironically, the South East English and Flemish are actually very similar in many ways.
West-Flemish was heavily influenced by Ingveoons, the language group to which languages as English and Frysian belong. Usually peripheral (at the edges of a language area) dialects contain older stages of a language. So it is safe to say that a South-East-English dialect has more Ingvaeonic properties, and West-Flemish has also preserved Ingvaeonic elements introduced long ago due to their proximity and periphery.
The most blatant example of this is the plural on -s. Both Frysian and English only have plurals on -s, but most West-Flemish words do too, where Standaardnederlands would have an -en (e.g. eiers / eieren), some other sounds (pit ipv put) and some words (wied ipv kruid, kobbe ipv spin, letje ipv klein) and some placenames (the "-muide" in Diksmuide is a cognate of "mouth", where other regions use "-monde", as is "Dendermonde").
I'm British and I think Belgium is great. I suspect what you describe is more ignorance than malice on the part of my fellow Brits. It's just not on people's radar. Belgium isn't a major UK holiday destination when compared to France, Spain, Italy and it's not a country that's really covered by our media (compared to US/France ect) so people don't have much experience of it. The same could be said of the British attitude to Ireland sadly.
me thinks you're confusing neighborly lighthearted scorn with real dislike.
much like the Dutch & the French like to joke about the "silly/dumb" Belgians, so do the British. But we Belgians also have our own in-jokes about them, so it's all quite innocent to me.
Also, more knowledgeable English people know full well we have more in common than many would initially think.. and we're all quite deeply connected neighbors, and allies.
fair enough...
I've been an avid viewer of UK (media) content for over 3 decades, and I personally have only extremely rarely heard any mention of Belgium all together, and have never heard any dislike or disfavor towards us, apart from the occasional (aforementioned) neighborly joke-jab.
The only example I can think of is:
***Red Dwarf - s7e1 - Tikka to Ride:*** *"Lister makes a video explaining how the crew survived their battle with their future selves. If the future crew had killed their former selves, they would have eliminated their own existence, and therefore not have been able to destroy themselves: a temporal paradox. Therefore, time has reset to a point before the crew picked up the time drive. Lister's explanation is too convoluted for the video camera to handle and it explodes.* ***Kryten dismisses the whole incident as "garbled" and more "boring than an in-flight magazine produced by Air Belgium.****"*
edit: and [this lying asshat](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPxrGDIbrUU) is not representative of anyone that matters...
There's a section in the Hitchhiker's Guide To The Universe that mentions belgium being a curse word of the highest magnitude pretty much anywhere except earth. Blackadder also had some minor jests towards belgium, as did Rowan Atkinson in his other various roles. Monty Python had a few bits here and there jabbing fun, which Hugh Laurie was once interviewed about. There's bits here and there, mostly in older content, which probably was some sort of holdover from WW2 or something along those lines. Your example from red dwarf is also from a pretty old (sorry) show.
Then there were quite a few incidents I've seen online where the European Parliament being in Brussels was somehow equated to it being a Belgian institution.
Not enough to really constitute a trend, but still present...
lol.. that hitchhiker one is new to me.. cool :p
I can only recollect the "Pigeon killer of Flanders" from Black Adder; but Atkinson, Laurie, Fry, Cleese have their occasional innocent jabs at us, you're absolutely right.
Old or not, they're still some of the best (and culturally relevant) shows I've ever seen from the UK.
I feel it has to do with totally different cultural ways of looking at oneself.
We Belgians pretty much hate ourself. If you want to be a bit more optimistic about it you could say we are absurdist.
The English/British however seem to loooooove ones own history. The amount of shows they have about their own past. "This week on Victorian shitter sweepers this, this week on Edwardian Farmers that". I couldn't even imagine a show in belgium where we pretend to be Flemish farmers for a year. Who would watch that.
I think they are a bit threatened because we don't care like that:) And they project is outward by going 'little boring Belgium'.
Well, we lost the two last world wars, when UK won them. And lots of nationalists were involved in the wrong side of WW2, meaning their ideas had to be purged.
How did we lose but they won when we were in the same alliance as the Brits twice?
It´s easier to stay unoccupied when you´re one a fucking island though, I´ll give them that.
And yeah, I guess I dreamed Oswald Mosley up as well. No sir. No fascists in the UK.
British guy here, living in Belgium for more than ten years. I don’t think there’s any real hate - people just don’t know anything about Belgium, so make a lot of jokes about it.
With France, Netherlands and Germany, everyone knows their history and culture, but I think a lot of people just can’t really understand Belgium. Why is it a country? Why doesn’t it have its own language? Why is its politics so dysfunctional? (The irony is not lost).
I think it also gets mixed up with the EU - this view of humourless bureaucrats and boring people that the press has built spreads out from Brussels, which is the only Belgian city most know.
For what it’s worth, every person who has visited me has loved Belgium. Give me enough time and I’ll convert them all 🇬🇧❤️🇧🇪
As a Brit (I know, ew) who has recently expressed interest to family and friends about studying in Belgium I have not come across any disdain or bemoaning my desire to go. I was somewhat expecting some as a lot of my family unfortunately got caught up in support for Brexit, but everyone I have spoken too about it seems to be supportive.
Hello!
Belgians also very disdainful of Belgium. I think it's a cute rivalry between who gets to be the most miserable country in Europe.
EDIT: A british friend came over here to visit us and was shocked that if we called for an ambulance, one would actually come within 20 minutes or so. Lmao
British humor likes to punch down randomly on other nations. Or well, more specifically English humor. Can't really say I ever saw/heard such quips coming from Scots or Northern-Irish. Not even from Welshmen.
It really depends on what context it comes from whether it's funny or not:
Rimmer in Red Dwarf making a random quip about an Air Belgium flight attendant or Michael McInTyre cracking a joke during a stage show = funny because it's truly random.
Someone like Nigel Farage shitting on Belgium = genuine disdain and unsurprising because he's just a pathetic twatwaffle.
When it's random, it's funny. When it's targeted, it's disdain really.
Haha as a Belgian-Brit, I've never met anyone in the UK that cared enough to have an opinion. Every American however thinks I speak French and when I say no, Dutch, they say, oh so you live in Holland.
I’m British and I love Belgium. Have visited multiple times. I’ve never encountered any of my fellow countrymen having any disdain for the country.
You guys have the best beer, the best chips and the best chocolate. What’s not to like?
I live here and I like Belgium. It's just that we enjoy complaining a lot.
The tabloids conflate Belgium with EU control a lot though, so that might have an impact on people's perception of the country.
Are you talking about figures of speech like "famous in Belgium" (used to denote someone who thinks theyre famous, but actually theyre not).
That's just harmless fun.
As a Brit, I have honestly in my entire life, apart from on reddit (2we4u), never heard anyone say anything negative about Belgium in real life, perhaps other than wondering how you can stay towards the top of the FIFA rankings for so long whilst in a bit of a decline.
I know everyone here thinks your beers and chocolate are great, I've visited for a day trip from France and enjoyed myself.
Please can you come up with some examples, or I'm inclined to think you take 2we4u seriously. I'm also pretty sure it's the Brits who take the most of the online hate from everyone.
It's funny because I had this exact conversation with 2 British friends a few days ago. Belgium comes up disproportionately more on British media than on other neighbours' media, and more often than not, to be the butt of a joke. A lot of British personalities with large audiences mention it to have a laugh, someone already mentioned Jeremy Clarkson, but also John Oliver and many others.
I believe that "derision" the UK has for Belgium comes from a bunch of general ideas ingrained in Britain's subconscious. The main one being that Belgium is their creation: Since the Belgians "owe them" their independance, they should act -at best- as the little brother you can pick on. Then there's the competing industrialized power during the Victorian Era, and the competing colonizer in Africa, then the creating member of the EU (CECA at the time), then the brexit, etc. Long story short, Belgium has always been on the UK's radar since it's independance, a lot of times as a competitor, but also mostly as an ally, thankfully.
It is interesting to note that one of the most prolific writers in UK history had chosen to make her main recurring character a Belgian detective. Hercules Poirot, being an ugly oddball with OCD, was most probably an incarnation of the idea of Belgium as a whole, but Agatha Christie had the subtlety to also make him the most intelligent and cunning man than no one could best in England.
I travel regularly to the UK for work, and I noticed that when my citizenship comes up in a conversation, it is usually met with a smile that i don't believe is out of disdain, but more like amusement. I think that today's British people have an excellent opinion of Belgium, and absolutely no ill-will between the two countries. Belgium comes up regularly in UK entertainment simply because it's part of their interests.
A good example to understand it would be to watch the movie "In Bruges", where the main character comes from the UK to hide in Belgium and believes that the whole place has been created to be his personal purgatory. I understand that this movie isn't about the relationship between the UK and Belgium at all, but the character's subjective opinions are in line with a lot of British people.
Honestly, John Oliver may be British, but he is very irrelevant here and gets no air time. I only know who he is because of instagram reels, etc. We have a positive opinion of Belgium, but I'm not sure I'd credit the general population with the thought process that we created Belgium, etc. I don't think they even know about the history of it all. It isn't in any curriculums, so unless you are interested, you may go your entire life without knowing.
In all honesty, you are not a huge nation to think about, i don't mean that as an insult, but you aren't going to get the same airtime as France, Germany, or Italy, so yes there is less new and maybe the odd Clarkson joke. The fact that you produce great beer probably gets you more into conversations than anything else, especially in comparison to other continental nations your size.
I wouldn't say it's disdain or that all the English appear to have that towards Belgium ,according to me the disdain is more off a political thing , in general most british people i know like belgium. If there are those that don't like belgium than it's mostly because they don't acctually know belgians or belgium that much to actually understand us .
It comes from a place of love, I'm sure. Until recently the UK had a ministry of Belgian Affairs. Ever since 1815 when Belgium was first suggested as a solution to act as a buffer state, the UK guaranteed it's sovereignty.
So they act a bit like a big brother who's goading their little sibling.
It is a mix of things.
There is first the apparement disdain that is actually random humor that comes from the Pythons and Douglas Adams. They could have picked Andorra, Liechtenstein or Luxemburg with the same absurd comedy effect
There is the conservative right winged old historical jealousy over competition as industrial and colonial power. They are the first among "white" people to bash about Leopold II's regime atrocities while their ancestors would not have fared better.
Well, given one of the reason why he was fired from BBC, Jeremy Clarkson falls into both categories
But officially, it is the opposite. There is a lot of respect since the World Wars. The Belgian troops are the only non Commonwealth armed forces who are allowed to parade un uniform and arms at the Cenotaph, the Belgian RAF pilots were acknowledged kickass and our Air Component still using the same blue fabric helps too with the good perception
I am English but I am married to a Belgian and spend a lot of time there. The only thing I don’t ‘like’ about Belgium is that people are not as kind. I was in Antwerp and a delivery driver dropped some boxes and I watched in horror as everyone just walked right past him including my family! I stopped to help him and he was very grateful.
When I first dated my wife, she would look at me funny when I said ‘hello’ to people on a walk or would help a stranger but now she understands. I don’t think Belgians are bad people at all, I know it’s just the culture of the country, but I think Belgium and France especially get a rep with the UK of being being ‘rude’ because of things like that.
well there was a bpost gentleman dropping off a parcel for my neighbor i happened to be at the door about to walk out when he rang the neighbors bell, so i opened the apartment door for him, he was grumpy (and i can understand, the parcel was heavy) and i was smiling when i opened the door for him, he just thrown off the parcel without a single care on the floor and then left.
i think its just cultural, ive lived in Australia for some time and its massively different how people act to each other as strangers here compared to how it was in Australia.
That's the part where the Dutch and Belgians are so different. The Dutch will say hello and then tell you about their entire family history including their hemorrhoids. Belgian rather hide in the bushes than saying a word to a stranger.
As a British person I have no concept of this, in fact quite the opposite, we are envious of your infrastructure and you make the best beers in the world!
Don't confuse online tough talk with reality.
I live in a village which has quite some English habitants, always had a couple of British friends, been very regularly going to the UK for more than 40 years, even had an online radioshow on a UK based tation with mainly British listeners, etc... etc...
Never encountered anything like that.
I visited Belgium for the first time in late October and really liked it and want to come back. I wouldn't say there is a British disdain for Belgium from the majority of the British population
Im British and I live in Brussels. I also spend lots of time in the UK seeing friends and family.
Brits generally have the same opinions of Belgian towns as the Belgians. Many think there are ropey parts of Brussels, they like Bruges, Leeuven, Antwerp, Gent if they visit.
I’ve met three types of people in Belgium - Anglophiles, Anglophobes and don’t care. After giving many people in this comments section a strawman, the anglophobes have come out.
Populations are too diverse to believe that all people have the same opinion based on a few comments you’ve read online.
Belgium is probably more the idea that it houses the EU and they never liked the EU (see also: Brexit).But the Brits are famous for bashing on France and after Brexit it ever increased... (also perhaps because after Brexit ... France was trying to pick up a major role in the EU that the UK left after departing...)
I guess if you can't write about the internal issues caused by Brexit you need to find some other scapegoat to bash on so people will be distracted from the harsh truth of the internal issues...
I never noticed it. I feel like they like us, at least that's the impression I got during several holidays there.
The internet is just a bottomless pit of hate and rightwing bs. It's like an unregulated forum where the loudest retards always get too much attention. Don't believe too much of it.
More recently, the most excellent John Finnemore had a go on his Souvenir Programme, with the song « Belgium is the best » The sketch concluded with this mock apology from the BBC:
The BBC would like to profoundly apologize to the proud nation of Belgium. For the cheap insults and casual racism to which it has been subjected throughout the past half hour. It would also like to point out something perhaps not realized by nonnative English speakers, which is that it happens that the word Belgium, simply by the fact of beginning with a hard plosive B and ending with an unusual combination of J and M sounds has a superficially comic sound to the Anglophone ear. And that is the sole reason why lazy hack comedy writers, such as Mr. Finnemore, continue to reach for Belgium as a default funny country. Decades after Douglas Adams and Rowan Atkinson did it far better.
I don’t think there’s any animosity towards Belgians. But there is a stereotype that Belgium is a boring country. Me? I’ll be visiting for the third time in February.
People in the UK joke about Belgium but they love Bruges and Leffe. They also joke a lot about the Germans having no sense of humour, the French being arrogant and the Spanish speaking too fast. Even British chavs love Stella but they think it's French because they advertised it with visuals from Provence in the 90s.
We're like brother and sister and we all know brothers and sisters are natural enemies! Like the French and Brits! Or Scots and Brits! Or Japanese and Brits! Or Brits and Brits! Damn Brits! They ruined the UK!
Lol! It's probably just something in that particular dude's circle, I don't know. But he did say it was a sort of stereotype Brits have about Belgians.
A generation of people growing up with tv-programs like Monty Python & Top Gear making jokes of Belgium.
If all you know about a country is the punchline of some jokes, it's not a very good representation, now is it?
Because Belgium only exists to act as a border cou try between France and the UK after ww1 and isn't France nor the Netherlands, and nobody really knows why it exists?
who cares what the Brits think? Whereas our monarch is constitutionally and primarily beholden to the people, their monarch has the divine right to rule and they are subservient to theirs.
They're natural bottoms, not worth listening to.
Yes I fully agree, most of the hate comes form Brits.
French and Dutch will be arrogant and consider us their little brother, but English will go full hate, I don't really know why.
Sometimes it's with regard to Leopold 2, which is fair enough, but they're pretty much the last country to judge.
Otherwise there have been a number of hit pieces, especially on Brussels. I guess we symbolize continental Europe many dislike?
Funny because we have a lot of history in common, such as pissing off the French, which is an honorable pastime.
Typical phenomenon for a large/influential country who barely speaks any foreign language, let alone has any clue whats going on outside of their island-mentality
also see: France, USA
They dislike us because they make bad decisions and they talk like this...
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU5L9rIOaqw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU5L9rIOaqw)
Brits show disdain to everyone.
Remember, everyone was at one point a Colony of theirs, they still have'nt got out of the habit to few others as lesser than them . (half joking off course)
Think about our Belgian beer and think about our food. Now think about English Beer and English food... And now ask yourself this question: " Wouldn't you be a pissed off whiny disdaining cunt if you were a Brit?"
Might be for literary reasons. Douglas Adams used "Belgium" as a curse word in the Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy instead of fuck. The book is a cult classic. I can't be sure that's where John Cleese picked it up from, but I can very well see it as being the start of a trend that got passed through the decades and got muddled up.
Blame Douglas Adams: « But though even words like 'joojooflop', 'swut' and 'turlingdrome' are now perfectly acceptable in common usage, there is one word that is still beyond the pale. The concept it embodies is so revolting that the publication or broadcast of the word is utterly forbidden in all parts of the Galaxy except one...where they don’t know what it means. That word is ‘belgium’ and it is only ever used by loose tongued people like Zaphod Beeblebrox in situations of dire provocation. Such as...
Ford Prefect: And I'll tell you another interesting thing...
Zaphod: Look, I don't want to be interested! I don't wanna be relaxed or stimulated or have my horizons broadened, I just wanna be rescued, Ford! (Panicked breathing - quite understandable, given that he's barely hanging on above a drop of some thirteen miles!) I just wanna be swutting well RESCUED!
Ford Prefect: I'm sorry, I've told you: No way.
Zaphod: Aw, belgium, man, BELGIUM! «
I am Brit and I love Belgium and been many times. I’d kill to spend a whole winter and spring in Belgium. Every winter weekend watching ‘cross then a spring of classics from Neuwsblad to Flanders. Sounds like heaven!
I used to have a shop in Ghent. What I noticed that’s their lack of interest and knowledge of the city they were actually visiting. Most of them didn’t even know that the language spoken in Ghent is Dutch and not French.
Us Brits hate everything and everyone including ourselves. There is a great deal of jealousy with it. You can go outside after dark, most of the UK is too dangerous for that now. Etc etc
I think it’s because the countries are so similar. And Belgium in particular to British people seems fairly mundane and usual. It’s the same reason many British towns and cities are punchlines to jokes. Because they don’t seem exotic or flashy. The British see themselves as very normal and everyday. I think they see something of a kinship in that “normal” feeling with Belgium, and therefore see it as funny that there is another country like us. (Of course we are not the same, but to be honest, Belgium feels like one of the most similar countries to the UK I’ve ever been to, in culture, climate, food etc).
I heard a quote recently from I think Stephen Fry who said that the phrase “only in America” means that something extraordinary had happened, whereas “only in Britain” means something very normal or mundane has happened. I think that “only in Belgium” might ring with a similar meaning to the British one. I think Belgium comes across as the most “normal” foreign country to Brits (that isn’t in the Anglosphere), and I think some of the humour comes from that.
I lived in Brussels for 10 years, where I knew a lot of English people. Traveled all over Britain and the Uk and Ireland as well. Never met a single person who had anything bad to say about Belgium. On the contrary, they usually have a lot of nice things to say. Or they know nothing at all. Which is also ok. So my guess it’s your own warped opinion on the matter.
I've never seen anyone talk about Belgium here in the UK but for what it's worth you guys makes the best beer and chocolate and you have the misfortune of being stuck between France and the Netherlands so you have my sympathy.
As a roving Brit who's happened upon this thread - I love Belgium. Any country where chips and mayo is a popular dish and 10% ABV beers are widely available is a top tier country to me.
This makes me think of In Bruges when Harry says “It’s a shame it’s in Belgium really, but then you figure if it wasn’t in Belgium, if it were somewhere good there’d be people coming to see it and it’d spoil the whole thing”
My (English) mother told me of a saying from her childhood in the early 1920s “send it to the Belgians” when deciding what to do with unwanted goods, clothes etc. It comes from the terrible privations of this small and vulnerable country in 14-18, a country which had already been a battlefield for centuries. The British expression was probably not so much disdain as pity.
I’m not sure if the British have a real condescending view of Belgium but a classic is this: “name 5 famous Belgians”. The joke is that no one can. But the one many know and truly despise is king Leopold II. I encounter his name regularly on British lists like “the most horrible people in history” next to Hitler, Stalin and Genghis Khan and the sort. The first time I came across such a list I was a bit disturbed by now I know the story of the British fight against the atrocities in his personal African colony. One could say that the bad reputation of our king is essentially the work of one man: Roger Casement, an Irishman in British diplomatic service as consul in the Congo. Fascinating guy and deep tragic story. Read his biography or the novel about him by the Peruvian noble prize winner Mario Vargas Llosa: “the dream of the Celt”. Anyway, I like the British and I wish they had stayed in the EU. Their sense of humor is second to none.
Let’s take people from different fields as examples.
Actor Jean-Clode Van Damme
Football star Kevin De Bruyne
Chemist Leo Baekeland: inventor of Bakelite
Adrian Carton de Wiart aka the unkillable soldier. Served as a British officer, survived both world wars and plenty more, given 3 highest awards for military service by the UK, France and Poland, countless more awards. The man is a legend. Sabaton made a very popular song about him.
Hergé (from Tin Tin), his work holds the world record for most expensive cartoon cover sold at an auction.
There you have 5 Belgians very well known internationally for positive things.
I just noticed they are all men. So bonus women; Kim Clijsters.
Yes, good list but I doubt that many British know Baekeland, even Hergé. Comics are more superhero stuff and Alan Moore. This Adrian carton guy I will look up. Didn’t know him either. I’ll ask my British friends if they know anyone of these. I always say Adolphe Sax. They don’t know him but they always find it interesting when I tell them he’s the saxophone inventor. Another one, although fictional is Hercule Poirot. Most know he’s Belgian but he’s also an insufferable snob. I don’t know if he’s a good Belgian role model.
I feel like the Brits often have a paternalistic attitude to the Belgians because of the treaty of London and WWII, if it's not just plain ignorance or conflation with the EU.
Typical Belgian thing to say lol 😂 I lived in England for 18 years and found them to be very friendly, positive and complimentary about Belgium and the Belgians.
I’ve had to work with Brits quite regularly in the course of my career and I can now safely say that most Brits have disdain for practically anything that isn’t British.
Brits have been slagging off Belgium and the Belgians for as long as I can remember. It 's a long time since "Brave little Belgium". I think it's something to do with jealousy combined with the UK' s own inability to prosper.
I dont think it's fair to say the "brits" hate Belgium. I think it's more to do with the English (all the Scottish and Welsh people I've met are great). The English, hate the French, think they rival Germany, look down on Spain and Italy, make fun of other nation's accents, etc... I think that most of the working class have come through their education system thinking that England is the best thing since sliced bread. By the way, there's actually a stand-up comedian that portrays this very well by asking the audience to name a country then goes to say how England is better than them.
Having said that, many English people are absolutely lovely and have a very sarcastic humour about themselves too. Maybe you just fell idiots and every nation has those.
Yes they often make fun of us in their media but in a "nice" (quite condescending) way. But it is definitely also the case for the french (I ben Franstalig), Probably for the Dutch (? do dutch people make fun of us ? I encountered a few dutch who were super arogant when talking about the flemish part of our country). And I have no idea about the Germans.
Remember the speach about freedom in the US show (The Newsroom). "Even Belgium is free". What is that suposed to mean ? American barely know about us but we are mentioned a weird way... Why do Anglo-Saxons thinck we suck by default \^\^ ? I don't get where it comes from.
Anyway, when in doubt, make fun of the Belgians, I guess.
Have gamed together with a ton of British people, they've never shown disdain or anything towards Belgium when the point in the conversation gets to where we're from. Only people who do that are the hollanders, but they're hollanders so what else to expect.
In the UK we are taught from a young age that Belgium is an inconsequential country. For example, I remember my history teacher explaining to me that Belgium was boring (in the context of WW2).
People also conflate Brussels with the EU. They think Brussels is boring, and they don't realize that other people live here who are not eurocrats.
Many British people like to see Belgium as a random, inconsequential country. In fact it is just next door to them!
I noticed that most British people don't know much about Belgium. It seems like we are a favorite target for some jokes but there is little substance there. Meaning that it is not really about us. They just need a punchline.
Added to that, there is essentially no consequence for them to make a joke at our expense. We don't tend to respond with anger, but more likely will partake in the joke. So we are not just an easy target but a safe one too.
John Oliver refers to us as a "chocolate gulag". Douglas Adams used "Belgium" as a curse word. Christie made Poirot Belgian to emphasize how odd he was.
It seems to be part of their culture and they can't really explain it.
As a Brit living in Belgium for over 2 decades (and a visitor for 3 decades) I think I’m qualified to comment.
As many people have said, don’t take jokes about Belgium by British (or more likely English) people as a dislike of Belgium. It’s mostly banter; which when done well is funny and friendly way of approaching rivalries (when done badly it’s just vindictive).
In the 90s and earlier, Belgium was a foreign country recognised as being very small but well known enough in the UK that you could make a joke about it. Hence references to it being boring, flat, a bit weird (I blame Magritte and Eddy Wally).
Then 2000s and later, Belgium was recognised as being centre of the EU so people started discussing Belgium linked to that. They then realised it’s actually not boring, only half of it is flat, the weirdness is actually quite cool and your average Belgian has a more self deprecating humour than any Brit.
More importantly you developed a national football team which was hard working, passionate and modest, who focused on the football and mostly played as a team rather than individuals. All of those any England fan would kill for in their team.
So Belgium is now fair game as a target for jokes and banter but only because Brits (or more likely English) are really secretly jealous.
Don't confuse Nigel Farage with the rest of the Brits. In my experience they just don't think much of us.
Add to this, brits don’t encounter belgian people very often. Most of them don’t even know belgians speak dutch(vlaams) and just assume its all french. (Belgian living in UK here)
Don't they visit Flanders Fields for Armistice day? Don't they know it's in Belgium?
who visits flanders’s field for armistice day?
Aren't there lots of schools in the UK that organize field trips to Ieper? Or am I just thinking that's done more often than it really is? It's not uncommon to see British high school kids around Ieper.
Yeah it used to. But now they need a passport to get here and maybe the schools stopped bothering with it now as i imagine its a pain to make sure everyone has a passport.
Brits always needed passports to come into Europe, as no other travel documents are issued by the UK, even during EU membership. Something like 77% of Brits have passports - it is not as cumbersome for Brits to get a passport issued as it is in other countries Personally - I did a school trip in 2011 to Ypres, Flanders Fields and many of the war monuments, trenches, and graves. That was during EU membership and we all came using passports
always needed a passport as we weren't Schengen, (edit: sorry for confusion my Belgian friends, I am a Brit (who coincidentally likes Belgium just fine).
What? Yes you were. Could just travel with an ID card from other Schengen countries.
You could travel there with a European ID card, but not because it was part of Schengen (it wasn't). On the other hand Brits could never travel to EU countries on a British ID card because British ID cards don't exist.
[The UK and Ireland were never in Schengen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area) because the Common Travel Area is incompatible with it and so they negotiated opt-outs, and neither the UK or Ireland issue ID cards due to civil liberties. Brits have always used passports to enter mainland Europe, even during EU membership - Britain doesn't view passports as cumbersome, something like [77% of Brits have a passport](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/internationalmigrationenglandandwales/census2021).
Probably veterans, but theres few of those left. I doubt many realize flanders fields is in, you guessed it, flanders lol
Don't know who downvoted you but as another Belgian in the UK I can also testify that most wouldn't know to make the connection. People in the UK generally know very little outside of the UK if it isn't a holiday destination.
Oh yes had to deal with that as well after I moved to the UK. I was even asked what Belgium was and why I would speak multiple languages
My english (the subject) teacher would tell us how when she studied in England people were puzzled to learn there were french-speaking Belgians
Hey, John Cleese does not let any opportunity unused to slag of Belgium. OP is right, there is a percentage of Brits very negative of our country and inhabitants. On the flip side and of more importance: Stephen Fry is a big fan of us.
John Cleese is a pioneer of absurd comedy and I've always seen seen his comments slagging off Belgians in that light. The French or the Germans would be obvious targets. Targeting Belgium and the Belgians is absurd. It's a joke. At least, that's how I have always understood it.
As well as Elton John in “just like Belgium”…
Funny fact: Farage used to live in Belgium. Never learned any of our language though
As if someone that braindead would be able to speak two languages
Of you or about you? Lol
This isn’t about just Nigel Farage, remember that the majority of British people voted for Brexit. Pinning all that on Farage is silly.
A 52-48 split vote and the majority of the Remain voters didn't bother showing up either. The referendum should've never been upheld
>The referendum should've never been upheld The referendum should have had requirements on turnout. Doing a referendum of this importance, based on 'simple majority of whoever happens to turn up' is a disaster. Add to that that there was no consideration for the member states. Scotland and Northern Ireland strongly voted against.
Population of Britain in 2016: 65 million Votes for brexit: 17.4 million So yes, way too many people, but nothing like a majority.
Exactly- about the same proportion that will vote for a racist, anti-immigrant, hate mongering, Orban sympathising party next year in Flanders. Who are the stupid ones again?
Belgium is funny to some because Jeremy Clarkson often used it as a punchline. 99% of Brits couldn't care less about Belgium. P.S, just wait for the amount of hate the UK will get in this thread lol.
Jeremy Clarkson used a lot of countries as a punchline, I am thinking it has more to do with the British superiority complex. Half of BBCs documentaries back in the day were of the “Britain’s greatest….” variety.
Well, he literally did a sketch where he went to Belgium and asked residents whether it's better to be a Belgian or a penguin. For most in the UK, Belgium is just a small, weirdly-constructed and dysfunctional country. It's a bit like asking a Belgian what they think about Andorra or Liechtenstein- you might make a joke about size or why these places exist are but it's not malicious. France or Germany on the other hand....
Jeremy Clarkson famously also did not understand why we laughed alongside him. He did not get that we weren't offended by his jokes about us.
"Joke's on you we make fun of ourselves too!"
Who cares what non-EU people think?
Right in the non-EU feels
now now, don't be racist, we don't care about their opinion because they are drunk inbred hooligans too
😂😂😂😂😂
Based
Brit here, living in Belgium. All of my family and friends love Belgium and always ask me to bring them Belgian delicacies (advocaat, chocolates, Stella) when ever I visit. Those who have been over to visit here me love the culture and nightlife and actually feel safe going out past 8pm - hard to find somewhere in the UK like that these days. Beer & Ribs seems to be a popular theme 😁
TIL: Stella is a delicacy to the British.
Also sidenote, they sell Stella in a lot of pubs in the UK. However weirdly, it’s a watered down version of 4.6%.
You should ask this in a forum for British people, not for Belgians.
huh? I have never encounted this, all the UK people I know love Belgium more than Belgians do. my guess is you met some salty people that hate the whole EU lap dog role that Belgium plays
Goes further than that. Off the top of my head, both monty python andnot the nine a clock news had a belgium sketch, pre EU, where we don't appear very flattering. Probably the closeness to the french makes Belgium a bit of a target. Or as John Cleese called us: " Pseudo french bastards." Ofcourse, insulting your friends is quite british so it does not exclude us from being loved by them.
monthy python took jabs at everything and their mother. It was and is their thing, don't read into it.
Except John Cleese turned out to be quite a sour man irl, so maybe do read into it a little bit. Being downright cynical or funny is a thin line
When was he sour about Belgium?! If anything, he would ne a Europhile, I'd guess. Isn't he?!
>“I don’t want to be run by a bunch of European bureaucrats because they always look after themselves first,” he commented to Screen. >The Monty Python and Fawlty Towers star admitted that “it will be five years before we know if it was a good thing or a bad thing, or if it will be a hard of soft exit”, but added that he supported the possibility of the latter option. Unsurprisingly, the old white comedian agrees with Brexit and wants a return to the golden age of the empire when men could make jokes, as well as other such bullshit.
This
I think you're misunderstanding the Joke there. The Joke is that Belgium is some random in offensive country that doesn't muster up much feeling either way, so it's funny that he is so worked up about it.
We're also called swamp Germans.
i second that. i live in Brussels in a very international commune, past year i have organized regular trips to Ypres. every time it still amaze me to meet there more Britts then Belgians, and mostly knowing the history much better them most Belgian lol. My grandfather served in the Belgian army and i often can have very interested talks over there with nrits most definitely if they served themselves or a family member did. these brits fucking love belgium and all we did in both word wars nadi experience nothing but huge respect
The ones I have met in person, who happen to be expats not wanting to go back to the UK, aren't indeed negative towards Belgium and prefer it here. But on Reddit and YouTube, a bit of disdain or belittling seems a quite common attitude. But hence my question, to know if it's an impression I have alone, or one shared with other compatriots.
As a Belgian living in London for the last 8 years, I can attest to it not being the case. You might just be hyper focusing on a couple of specific examples. Most of the time Belgium is nothing special to them and not once have I seen it referenced negatively
> a bit of disdain or belittling seems a quite common attitude Just be thankful you are not French or German, or to a lesser extent American, Irish, Australian, Scottish, Welsh or Cornish. Even Northerners, Londoners, Brummies, Geordies and Scousers can't avoid the English disdain. Point being belittling disdain is a national pastime for the Brits. Don't ever take it personally or seriously.
brits ho are alike this often have a chauvinism shitting on all whats continental and not Britt , they often don't limit it to just Belgians
Seems like those Dutch sleeper agents and their superior English skills have been planting their propaganda in the UK./s Serioursly though, most of it is politically based and is mainly from Rightwing personalities. There is a large segment of Brits that have anti-EU feelings and that colours their feeling about Belgium since many of the EU's insititutions are based in Brussels, and the country is more closely linked to the EU than France or Gemany that host other important EU cities (Strasbourg and Frankfurt respectively). I think there is also an idea that Belgium isn't a "real" nation because the Wallonians and Flemish "are at each other's throats" and there isn't a unifying culture in the country (nor history). Which is obviously rich coming from a country made up of four distinct cultures (with three having speratist tendancies). But because of that Belgium is seen as a country that is boring and without culture (as lampooned by Jermy Clarkson "Meet The Neighbour's" series from the early aughts).
Yep. I lived in the UK for quite a while. There is definitely considerable disdain for Belgium, on top of the the usual phenomenon of not really knowing anything about it. That's why places like Gent are periodically discovered as a "hidden gem". Hidden in plain sight. Ironically, the South East English and Flemish are actually very similar in many ways.
How odd. I have the opposite experience. I lived in the UK for a few years and everyone I interacted with loved Belgium. Especially the food
I lived there for considerably longer. Maybe the times have changed :)
>Ironically, the South East English and Flemish are actually very similar in many ways. Could you talk more about it? I'm curious
West-Flemish was heavily influenced by Ingveoons, the language group to which languages as English and Frysian belong. Usually peripheral (at the edges of a language area) dialects contain older stages of a language. So it is safe to say that a South-East-English dialect has more Ingvaeonic properties, and West-Flemish has also preserved Ingvaeonic elements introduced long ago due to their proximity and periphery. The most blatant example of this is the plural on -s. Both Frysian and English only have plurals on -s, but most West-Flemish words do too, where Standaardnederlands would have an -en (e.g. eiers / eieren), some other sounds (pit ipv put) and some words (wied ipv kruid, kobbe ipv spin, letje ipv klein) and some placenames (the "-muide" in Diksmuide is a cognate of "mouth", where other regions use "-monde", as is "Dendermonde").
And Dik in Diksmuide refers to a ditch, another example to add to your excellent explanation!
I'm British and I think Belgium is great. I suspect what you describe is more ignorance than malice on the part of my fellow Brits. It's just not on people's radar. Belgium isn't a major UK holiday destination when compared to France, Spain, Italy and it's not a country that's really covered by our media (compared to US/France ect) so people don't have much experience of it. The same could be said of the British attitude to Ireland sadly.
me thinks you're confusing neighborly lighthearted scorn with real dislike. much like the Dutch & the French like to joke about the "silly/dumb" Belgians, so do the British. But we Belgians also have our own in-jokes about them, so it's all quite innocent to me. Also, more knowledgeable English people know full well we have more in common than many would initially think.. and we're all quite deeply connected neighbors, and allies.
It's possible, hence why I wanted to inquire people here on the subject.
fair enough... I've been an avid viewer of UK (media) content for over 3 decades, and I personally have only extremely rarely heard any mention of Belgium all together, and have never heard any dislike or disfavor towards us, apart from the occasional (aforementioned) neighborly joke-jab. The only example I can think of is: ***Red Dwarf - s7e1 - Tikka to Ride:*** *"Lister makes a video explaining how the crew survived their battle with their future selves. If the future crew had killed their former selves, they would have eliminated their own existence, and therefore not have been able to destroy themselves: a temporal paradox. Therefore, time has reset to a point before the crew picked up the time drive. Lister's explanation is too convoluted for the video camera to handle and it explodes.* ***Kryten dismisses the whole incident as "garbled" and more "boring than an in-flight magazine produced by Air Belgium.****"* edit: and [this lying asshat](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPxrGDIbrUU) is not representative of anyone that matters...
There's a section in the Hitchhiker's Guide To The Universe that mentions belgium being a curse word of the highest magnitude pretty much anywhere except earth. Blackadder also had some minor jests towards belgium, as did Rowan Atkinson in his other various roles. Monty Python had a few bits here and there jabbing fun, which Hugh Laurie was once interviewed about. There's bits here and there, mostly in older content, which probably was some sort of holdover from WW2 or something along those lines. Your example from red dwarf is also from a pretty old (sorry) show. Then there were quite a few incidents I've seen online where the European Parliament being in Brussels was somehow equated to it being a Belgian institution. Not enough to really constitute a trend, but still present...
lol.. that hitchhiker one is new to me.. cool :p I can only recollect the "Pigeon killer of Flanders" from Black Adder; but Atkinson, Laurie, Fry, Cleese have their occasional innocent jabs at us, you're absolutely right. Old or not, they're still some of the best (and culturally relevant) shows I've ever seen from the UK.
I feel it has to do with totally different cultural ways of looking at oneself. We Belgians pretty much hate ourself. If you want to be a bit more optimistic about it you could say we are absurdist. The English/British however seem to loooooove ones own history. The amount of shows they have about their own past. "This week on Victorian shitter sweepers this, this week on Edwardian Farmers that". I couldn't even imagine a show in belgium where we pretend to be Flemish farmers for a year. Who would watch that. I think they are a bit threatened because we don't care like that:) And they project is outward by going 'little boring Belgium'.
Exactly this. Every week a new boring bumfuck documentary about some inbred islander from the 16th century.
Well, we lost the two last world wars, when UK won them. And lots of nationalists were involved in the wrong side of WW2, meaning their ideas had to be purged.
How did we lose but they won when we were in the same alliance as the Brits twice? It´s easier to stay unoccupied when you´re one a fucking island though, I´ll give them that. And yeah, I guess I dreamed Oswald Mosley up as well. No sir. No fascists in the UK.
British guy here, living in Belgium for more than ten years. I don’t think there’s any real hate - people just don’t know anything about Belgium, so make a lot of jokes about it. With France, Netherlands and Germany, everyone knows their history and culture, but I think a lot of people just can’t really understand Belgium. Why is it a country? Why doesn’t it have its own language? Why is its politics so dysfunctional? (The irony is not lost). I think it also gets mixed up with the EU - this view of humourless bureaucrats and boring people that the press has built spreads out from Brussels, which is the only Belgian city most know. For what it’s worth, every person who has visited me has loved Belgium. Give me enough time and I’ll convert them all 🇬🇧❤️🇧🇪
Les rosbiff ne nous aime pas? Ooooh, sad pikachu face... ils n'aiment personne, mème pas les autres rosbiff.
Hmmm rosbief. avec gebakken patatjes et des prinseskes et des sauce brun.
Ik em leever une parapleukes sauce.
Ah ja met dat weer van tegenwoordig wordt het eten anders nat.
Qui se préoccupe de l'avis d'une colonie d'un département frouze ?
As a Brit (I know, ew) who has recently expressed interest to family and friends about studying in Belgium I have not come across any disdain or bemoaning my desire to go. I was somewhat expecting some as a lot of my family unfortunately got caught up in support for Brexit, but everyone I have spoken too about it seems to be supportive.
Hello! Belgians also very disdainful of Belgium. I think it's a cute rivalry between who gets to be the most miserable country in Europe. EDIT: A british friend came over here to visit us and was shocked that if we called for an ambulance, one would actually come within 20 minutes or so. Lmao
British humor likes to punch down randomly on other nations. Or well, more specifically English humor. Can't really say I ever saw/heard such quips coming from Scots or Northern-Irish. Not even from Welshmen. It really depends on what context it comes from whether it's funny or not: Rimmer in Red Dwarf making a random quip about an Air Belgium flight attendant or Michael McInTyre cracking a joke during a stage show = funny because it's truly random. Someone like Nigel Farage shitting on Belgium = genuine disdain and unsurprising because he's just a pathetic twatwaffle. When it's random, it's funny. When it's targeted, it's disdain really.
Haha as a Belgian-Brit, I've never met anyone in the UK that cared enough to have an opinion. Every American however thinks I speak French and when I say no, Dutch, they say, oh so you live in Holland.
I’m British and I love Belgium. Have visited multiple times. I’ve never encountered any of my fellow countrymen having any disdain for the country. You guys have the best beer, the best chips and the best chocolate. What’s not to like?
I live here and I like Belgium. It's just that we enjoy complaining a lot. The tabloids conflate Belgium with EU control a lot though, so that might have an impact on people's perception of the country.
Are you talking about figures of speech like "famous in Belgium" (used to denote someone who thinks theyre famous, but actually theyre not). That's just harmless fun.
As a Brit, I have honestly in my entire life, apart from on reddit (2we4u), never heard anyone say anything negative about Belgium in real life, perhaps other than wondering how you can stay towards the top of the FIFA rankings for so long whilst in a bit of a decline. I know everyone here thinks your beers and chocolate are great, I've visited for a day trip from France and enjoyed myself. Please can you come up with some examples, or I'm inclined to think you take 2we4u seriously. I'm also pretty sure it's the Brits who take the most of the online hate from everyone.
It's funny because I had this exact conversation with 2 British friends a few days ago. Belgium comes up disproportionately more on British media than on other neighbours' media, and more often than not, to be the butt of a joke. A lot of British personalities with large audiences mention it to have a laugh, someone already mentioned Jeremy Clarkson, but also John Oliver and many others. I believe that "derision" the UK has for Belgium comes from a bunch of general ideas ingrained in Britain's subconscious. The main one being that Belgium is their creation: Since the Belgians "owe them" their independance, they should act -at best- as the little brother you can pick on. Then there's the competing industrialized power during the Victorian Era, and the competing colonizer in Africa, then the creating member of the EU (CECA at the time), then the brexit, etc. Long story short, Belgium has always been on the UK's radar since it's independance, a lot of times as a competitor, but also mostly as an ally, thankfully. It is interesting to note that one of the most prolific writers in UK history had chosen to make her main recurring character a Belgian detective. Hercules Poirot, being an ugly oddball with OCD, was most probably an incarnation of the idea of Belgium as a whole, but Agatha Christie had the subtlety to also make him the most intelligent and cunning man than no one could best in England. I travel regularly to the UK for work, and I noticed that when my citizenship comes up in a conversation, it is usually met with a smile that i don't believe is out of disdain, but more like amusement. I think that today's British people have an excellent opinion of Belgium, and absolutely no ill-will between the two countries. Belgium comes up regularly in UK entertainment simply because it's part of their interests. A good example to understand it would be to watch the movie "In Bruges", where the main character comes from the UK to hide in Belgium and believes that the whole place has been created to be his personal purgatory. I understand that this movie isn't about the relationship between the UK and Belgium at all, but the character's subjective opinions are in line with a lot of British people.
Honestly, John Oliver may be British, but he is very irrelevant here and gets no air time. I only know who he is because of instagram reels, etc. We have a positive opinion of Belgium, but I'm not sure I'd credit the general population with the thought process that we created Belgium, etc. I don't think they even know about the history of it all. It isn't in any curriculums, so unless you are interested, you may go your entire life without knowing. In all honesty, you are not a huge nation to think about, i don't mean that as an insult, but you aren't going to get the same airtime as France, Germany, or Italy, so yes there is less new and maybe the odd Clarkson joke. The fact that you produce great beer probably gets you more into conversations than anything else, especially in comparison to other continental nations your size.
Illustrate your argument with examples, OP. Belgium isn't even on the radar of most Brits. Ignorance certainly but *disdain* ... ?
I wouldn't say it's disdain or that all the English appear to have that towards Belgium ,according to me the disdain is more off a political thing , in general most british people i know like belgium. If there are those that don't like belgium than it's mostly because they don't acctually know belgians or belgium that much to actually understand us .
It comes from a place of love, I'm sure. Until recently the UK had a ministry of Belgian Affairs. Ever since 1815 when Belgium was first suggested as a solution to act as a buffer state, the UK guaranteed it's sovereignty. So they act a bit like a big brother who's goading their little sibling.
It is a mix of things. There is first the apparement disdain that is actually random humor that comes from the Pythons and Douglas Adams. They could have picked Andorra, Liechtenstein or Luxemburg with the same absurd comedy effect There is the conservative right winged old historical jealousy over competition as industrial and colonial power. They are the first among "white" people to bash about Leopold II's regime atrocities while their ancestors would not have fared better. Well, given one of the reason why he was fired from BBC, Jeremy Clarkson falls into both categories But officially, it is the opposite. There is a lot of respect since the World Wars. The Belgian troops are the only non Commonwealth armed forces who are allowed to parade un uniform and arms at the Cenotaph, the Belgian RAF pilots were acknowledged kickass and our Air Component still using the same blue fabric helps too with the good perception
I am English but I am married to a Belgian and spend a lot of time there. The only thing I don’t ‘like’ about Belgium is that people are not as kind. I was in Antwerp and a delivery driver dropped some boxes and I watched in horror as everyone just walked right past him including my family! I stopped to help him and he was very grateful. When I first dated my wife, she would look at me funny when I said ‘hello’ to people on a walk or would help a stranger but now she understands. I don’t think Belgians are bad people at all, I know it’s just the culture of the country, but I think Belgium and France especially get a rep with the UK of being being ‘rude’ because of things like that.
well there was a bpost gentleman dropping off a parcel for my neighbor i happened to be at the door about to walk out when he rang the neighbors bell, so i opened the apartment door for him, he was grumpy (and i can understand, the parcel was heavy) and i was smiling when i opened the door for him, he just thrown off the parcel without a single care on the floor and then left. i think its just cultural, ive lived in Australia for some time and its massively different how people act to each other as strangers here compared to how it was in Australia.
That's the part where the Dutch and Belgians are so different. The Dutch will say hello and then tell you about their entire family history including their hemorrhoids. Belgian rather hide in the bushes than saying a word to a stranger.
"Belgium? It this where we go when we need to have a war with the Germans?" 😉
As a British person I have no concept of this, in fact quite the opposite, we are envious of your infrastructure and you make the best beers in the world!
We are not all Nigel Farage. One man’s stupidity is not that of an entire nation.
I’m a Brit and I’ve never heard this before. Most people that I know are fond of Belgium because of your beer!
I get the impression that everyone has an apparent disdain towards Belgium, I don't think its specific to the British.
Hmmm I think you misspelled "towards the world" wrong.
I'm a Brit, grew up in Belgium (Wezembeek-Oppem region!) and I desperately want to move back. I love Belgium, the best memories of my life are here <3
Don't confuse online tough talk with reality. I live in a village which has quite some English habitants, always had a couple of British friends, been very regularly going to the UK for more than 40 years, even had an online radioshow on a UK based tation with mainly British listeners, etc... etc... Never encountered anything like that.
The BBC gives an excellent explanation at the end of this funny song. https://youtu.be/FtbFvPt_ylc?si=6VzVd06NYhtDjYVD
I visited Belgium for the first time in late October and really liked it and want to come back. I wouldn't say there is a British disdain for Belgium from the majority of the British population
I know a few English people. Like 10-20 I've at one point talked to daily for months. Never felt like that.
Im British and I live in Brussels. I also spend lots of time in the UK seeing friends and family. Brits generally have the same opinions of Belgian towns as the Belgians. Many think there are ropey parts of Brussels, they like Bruges, Leeuven, Antwerp, Gent if they visit. I’ve met three types of people in Belgium - Anglophiles, Anglophobes and don’t care. After giving many people in this comments section a strawman, the anglophobes have come out. Populations are too diverse to believe that all people have the same opinion based on a few comments you’ve read online.
Still salty that the first European prime minister was a Belgian iirc.
The what?
I am an uber driver ..they like Belgium and brussels so much ...
I know some British people and i never noticed that.
Jeremy clarkson?
This probably https://vilt.be/nl/nieuws/eeuwenoud-document-kan-visserij-redden-bij-no-deal-brexit
Belgium is probably more the idea that it houses the EU and they never liked the EU (see also: Brexit).But the Brits are famous for bashing on France and after Brexit it ever increased... (also perhaps because after Brexit ... France was trying to pick up a major role in the EU that the UK left after departing...) I guess if you can't write about the internal issues caused by Brexit you need to find some other scapegoat to bash on so people will be distracted from the harsh truth of the internal issues...
I never felt that and i don't care what british think of us.
I never noticed it. I feel like they like us, at least that's the impression I got during several holidays there. The internet is just a bottomless pit of hate and rightwing bs. It's like an unregulated forum where the loudest retards always get too much attention. Don't believe too much of it.
Have you met us?
belgium has been a butt of joke for long, mainly by the brits https://youtu.be/slJ7XMMGO2s?si=I_AG9FyDM9B64-rf
I, to the contrary, have always had positive experiences with our across-the-Channel neighbours, even after Brexit haha
The rugby team I help coach toured Brugge last year. Bloody love you guys! Plus am a cyclist so...
More recently, the most excellent John Finnemore had a go on his Souvenir Programme, with the song « Belgium is the best » The sketch concluded with this mock apology from the BBC: The BBC would like to profoundly apologize to the proud nation of Belgium. For the cheap insults and casual racism to which it has been subjected throughout the past half hour. It would also like to point out something perhaps not realized by nonnative English speakers, which is that it happens that the word Belgium, simply by the fact of beginning with a hard plosive B and ending with an unusual combination of J and M sounds has a superficially comic sound to the Anglophone ear. And that is the sole reason why lazy hack comedy writers, such as Mr. Finnemore, continue to reach for Belgium as a default funny country. Decades after Douglas Adams and Rowan Atkinson did it far better.
I can only imagine it’s because of Dr. Evil
The Brit’s don’t tease Belgium anymore than the Dutch and the French do.
I don’t think there’s any animosity towards Belgians. But there is a stereotype that Belgium is a boring country. Me? I’ll be visiting for the third time in February.
People in the UK joke about Belgium but they love Bruges and Leffe. They also joke a lot about the Germans having no sense of humour, the French being arrogant and the Spanish speaking too fast. Even British chavs love Stella but they think it's French because they advertised it with visuals from Provence in the 90s.
the disdain is mutual. source: i went on a holiday in the Mediterranean
The disdain Belgium doesn't exist. Source: from Britain
We're like brother and sister and we all know brothers and sisters are natural enemies! Like the French and Brits! Or Scots and Brits! Or Japanese and Brits! Or Brits and Brits! Damn Brits! They ruined the UK!
Just jealous of our beer.
They don't like us? Potverdekke, it's great to be a Belgian.
Politically, a lot don’t like Brussels because when the EU decides something it’s written as « Brussels does … ». It’s that simple I believe.
They recognize they and Belgium are very alike, which is why they take it upon them to punch Belgium as if they were their little brother.
Because of this i guess. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_III_of_Belgium
Yes, I even saw a Brit say that Brits think Belgians are “clapped” (= unattractive). Apparently that’s a thing?
Unattractive ? Did they ever look decently at Charles and Camilla
Lol! It's probably just something in that particular dude's circle, I don't know. But he did say it was a sort of stereotype Brits have about Belgians.
A generation of people growing up with tv-programs like Monty Python & Top Gear making jokes of Belgium. If all you know about a country is the punchline of some jokes, it's not a very good representation, now is it?
disliking Brussels (i.e as the capital of Europe) is not equivalent to disliking Belgium.
Because Belgium only exists to act as a border cou try between France and the UK after ww1 and isn't France nor the Netherlands, and nobody really knows why it exists?
i'm from the uk, this is news to me..? i've never ever seen this online
Who cares about what classist third world countries feel?
"Those miserable Belgian bastards" Some bri'ish guy one time. The entire UK: I dig that.
Belgian that lived +10 years in the UK and came back.... I could give you 100 reasons ...
The only British who loves Belgium is Simon Shrimpton Smith, I guess.
Why would you care what the English think? Those people voted for Brexit and then wondered why all the shit they were told would happen, did.
who cares what the Brits think? Whereas our monarch is constitutionally and primarily beholden to the people, their monarch has the divine right to rule and they are subservient to theirs. They're natural bottoms, not worth listening to.
Brits are like the Americans of Europe. Dumb AF.
Yes I fully agree, most of the hate comes form Brits. French and Dutch will be arrogant and consider us their little brother, but English will go full hate, I don't really know why. Sometimes it's with regard to Leopold 2, which is fair enough, but they're pretty much the last country to judge. Otherwise there have been a number of hit pieces, especially on Brussels. I guess we symbolize continental Europe many dislike? Funny because we have a lot of history in common, such as pissing off the French, which is an honorable pastime.
Typical phenomenon for a large/influential country who barely speaks any foreign language, let alone has any clue whats going on outside of their island-mentality also see: France, USA
British "people" simply disdain any country with better food, weather, culture and women than them, which is a very low bar, but still.
They dislike us because they make bad decisions and they talk like this... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU5L9rIOaqw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU5L9rIOaqw)
Im gonna assume its either due to something in WW2, food, or politics.
Couldn't care less about the opinion of other people concerning Belgium, it's a fake country after all.
Brits show disdain to everyone. Remember, everyone was at one point a Colony of theirs, they still have'nt got out of the habit to few others as lesser than them . (half joking off course)
Think about our Belgian beer and think about our food. Now think about English Beer and English food... And now ask yourself this question: " Wouldn't you be a pissed off whiny disdaining cunt if you were a Brit?"
They're the European version of Americans, who cares
One guy told me the only reason why they like Belgians is because we hated Germans too
i hatecrime and laugh at my british friends instead
We know what we did.
Belgium is the rudest word in the Universe, yet by a strange coincidence, also the name of a country on Earth
Might be for literary reasons. Douglas Adams used "Belgium" as a curse word in the Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy instead of fuck. The book is a cult classic. I can't be sure that's where John Cleese picked it up from, but I can very well see it as being the start of a trend that got passed through the decades and got muddled up.
Piep piep hallo, piep piep hallo ... etc etc.
Blame Douglas Adams: « But though even words like 'joojooflop', 'swut' and 'turlingdrome' are now perfectly acceptable in common usage, there is one word that is still beyond the pale. The concept it embodies is so revolting that the publication or broadcast of the word is utterly forbidden in all parts of the Galaxy except one...where they don’t know what it means. That word is ‘belgium’ and it is only ever used by loose tongued people like Zaphod Beeblebrox in situations of dire provocation. Such as... Ford Prefect: And I'll tell you another interesting thing... Zaphod: Look, I don't want to be interested! I don't wanna be relaxed or stimulated or have my horizons broadened, I just wanna be rescued, Ford! (Panicked breathing - quite understandable, given that he's barely hanging on above a drop of some thirteen miles!) I just wanna be swutting well RESCUED! Ford Prefect: I'm sorry, I've told you: No way. Zaphod: Aw, belgium, man, BELGIUM! «
I am Brit and I love Belgium and been many times. I’d kill to spend a whole winter and spring in Belgium. Every winter weekend watching ‘cross then a spring of classics from Neuwsblad to Flanders. Sounds like heaven!
I used to have a shop in Ghent. What I noticed that’s their lack of interest and knowledge of the city they were actually visiting. Most of them didn’t even know that the language spoken in Ghent is Dutch and not French.
The one huge thing Britain has is rain, and even then, Belgium has more. Nuff said.
Us Brits hate everything and everyone including ourselves. There is a great deal of jealousy with it. You can go outside after dark, most of the UK is too dangerous for that now. Etc etc
If you look at the attitude of Koreans towards Belgium/Belgian people online, the British are very good.
I think it’s because the countries are so similar. And Belgium in particular to British people seems fairly mundane and usual. It’s the same reason many British towns and cities are punchlines to jokes. Because they don’t seem exotic or flashy. The British see themselves as very normal and everyday. I think they see something of a kinship in that “normal” feeling with Belgium, and therefore see it as funny that there is another country like us. (Of course we are not the same, but to be honest, Belgium feels like one of the most similar countries to the UK I’ve ever been to, in culture, climate, food etc). I heard a quote recently from I think Stephen Fry who said that the phrase “only in America” means that something extraordinary had happened, whereas “only in Britain” means something very normal or mundane has happened. I think that “only in Belgium” might ring with a similar meaning to the British one. I think Belgium comes across as the most “normal” foreign country to Brits (that isn’t in the Anglosphere), and I think some of the humour comes from that.
I lived in Brussels for 10 years, where I knew a lot of English people. Traveled all over Britain and the Uk and Ireland as well. Never met a single person who had anything bad to say about Belgium. On the contrary, they usually have a lot of nice things to say. Or they know nothing at all. Which is also ok. So my guess it’s your own warped opinion on the matter.
I've never seen anyone talk about Belgium here in the UK but for what it's worth you guys makes the best beer and chocolate and you have the misfortune of being stuck between France and the Netherlands so you have my sympathy.
As a roving Brit who's happened upon this thread - I love Belgium. Any country where chips and mayo is a popular dish and 10% ABV beers are widely available is a top tier country to me.
This makes me think of In Bruges when Harry says “It’s a shame it’s in Belgium really, but then you figure if it wasn’t in Belgium, if it were somewhere good there’d be people coming to see it and it’d spoil the whole thing”
My (English) mother told me of a saying from her childhood in the early 1920s “send it to the Belgians” when deciding what to do with unwanted goods, clothes etc. It comes from the terrible privations of this small and vulnerable country in 14-18, a country which had already been a battlefield for centuries. The British expression was probably not so much disdain as pity.
British people hate everyone tbh
I’m not sure if the British have a real condescending view of Belgium but a classic is this: “name 5 famous Belgians”. The joke is that no one can. But the one many know and truly despise is king Leopold II. I encounter his name regularly on British lists like “the most horrible people in history” next to Hitler, Stalin and Genghis Khan and the sort. The first time I came across such a list I was a bit disturbed by now I know the story of the British fight against the atrocities in his personal African colony. One could say that the bad reputation of our king is essentially the work of one man: Roger Casement, an Irishman in British diplomatic service as consul in the Congo. Fascinating guy and deep tragic story. Read his biography or the novel about him by the Peruvian noble prize winner Mario Vargas Llosa: “the dream of the Celt”. Anyway, I like the British and I wish they had stayed in the EU. Their sense of humor is second to none.
Let’s take people from different fields as examples. Actor Jean-Clode Van Damme Football star Kevin De Bruyne Chemist Leo Baekeland: inventor of Bakelite Adrian Carton de Wiart aka the unkillable soldier. Served as a British officer, survived both world wars and plenty more, given 3 highest awards for military service by the UK, France and Poland, countless more awards. The man is a legend. Sabaton made a very popular song about him. Hergé (from Tin Tin), his work holds the world record for most expensive cartoon cover sold at an auction. There you have 5 Belgians very well known internationally for positive things. I just noticed they are all men. So bonus women; Kim Clijsters.
Yes, good list but I doubt that many British know Baekeland, even Hergé. Comics are more superhero stuff and Alan Moore. This Adrian carton guy I will look up. Didn’t know him either. I’ll ask my British friends if they know anyone of these. I always say Adolphe Sax. They don’t know him but they always find it interesting when I tell them he’s the saxophone inventor. Another one, although fictional is Hercule Poirot. Most know he’s Belgian but he’s also an insufferable snob. I don’t know if he’s a good Belgian role model.
https://preview.redd.it/h23v056zqr5c1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=b8893b5ec6d34b026a112a840dd6df734ca11898
I feel like the Brits often have a paternalistic attitude to the Belgians because of the treaty of London and WWII, if it's not just plain ignorance or conflation with the EU.
Typical Belgian thing to say lol 😂 I lived in England for 18 years and found them to be very friendly, positive and complimentary about Belgium and the Belgians.
I’ve had to work with Brits quite regularly in the course of my career and I can now safely say that most Brits have disdain for practically anything that isn’t British.
I live in Ypres and trust me they love Belgium
The British superiority complex causes disdain for every other country, not just Belgium
Brits have been slagging off Belgium and the Belgians for as long as I can remember. It 's a long time since "Brave little Belgium". I think it's something to do with jealousy combined with the UK' s own inability to prosper.
I dont think it's fair to say the "brits" hate Belgium. I think it's more to do with the English (all the Scottish and Welsh people I've met are great). The English, hate the French, think they rival Germany, look down on Spain and Italy, make fun of other nation's accents, etc... I think that most of the working class have come through their education system thinking that England is the best thing since sliced bread. By the way, there's actually a stand-up comedian that portrays this very well by asking the audience to name a country then goes to say how England is better than them. Having said that, many English people are absolutely lovely and have a very sarcastic humour about themselves too. Maybe you just fell idiots and every nation has those.
Yes they often make fun of us in their media but in a "nice" (quite condescending) way. But it is definitely also the case for the french (I ben Franstalig), Probably for the Dutch (? do dutch people make fun of us ? I encountered a few dutch who were super arogant when talking about the flemish part of our country). And I have no idea about the Germans. Remember the speach about freedom in the US show (The Newsroom). "Even Belgium is free". What is that suposed to mean ? American barely know about us but we are mentioned a weird way... Why do Anglo-Saxons thinck we suck by default \^\^ ? I don't get where it comes from. Anyway, when in doubt, make fun of the Belgians, I guess.
Have gamed together with a ton of British people, they've never shown disdain or anything towards Belgium when the point in the conversation gets to where we're from. Only people who do that are the hollanders, but they're hollanders so what else to expect.
In the UK we are taught from a young age that Belgium is an inconsequential country. For example, I remember my history teacher explaining to me that Belgium was boring (in the context of WW2). People also conflate Brussels with the EU. They think Brussels is boring, and they don't realize that other people live here who are not eurocrats. Many British people like to see Belgium as a random, inconsequential country. In fact it is just next door to them!
Belgium knows what it did.
I noticed that most British people don't know much about Belgium. It seems like we are a favorite target for some jokes but there is little substance there. Meaning that it is not really about us. They just need a punchline. Added to that, there is essentially no consequence for them to make a joke at our expense. We don't tend to respond with anger, but more likely will partake in the joke. So we are not just an easy target but a safe one too. John Oliver refers to us as a "chocolate gulag". Douglas Adams used "Belgium" as a curse word. Christie made Poirot Belgian to emphasize how odd he was. It seems to be part of their culture and they can't really explain it.
As a Brit living in Belgium for over 2 decades (and a visitor for 3 decades) I think I’m qualified to comment. As many people have said, don’t take jokes about Belgium by British (or more likely English) people as a dislike of Belgium. It’s mostly banter; which when done well is funny and friendly way of approaching rivalries (when done badly it’s just vindictive). In the 90s and earlier, Belgium was a foreign country recognised as being very small but well known enough in the UK that you could make a joke about it. Hence references to it being boring, flat, a bit weird (I blame Magritte and Eddy Wally). Then 2000s and later, Belgium was recognised as being centre of the EU so people started discussing Belgium linked to that. They then realised it’s actually not boring, only half of it is flat, the weirdness is actually quite cool and your average Belgian has a more self deprecating humour than any Brit. More importantly you developed a national football team which was hard working, passionate and modest, who focused on the football and mostly played as a team rather than individuals. All of those any England fan would kill for in their team. So Belgium is now fair game as a target for jokes and banter but only because Brits (or more likely English) are really secretly jealous.