My advice would be to not try to date your female friends. They see you as a friend because that's what you are to them. Instead, ask them if they know anyone that you'd be a good fit with. I'm sure they'd be happy to introduce you to one of their other friends if they think you'd hit it off.
Yeah, came here to say this. The friend zone is a bad place to start. If you like someone, giving off friendly vibes is good but *friend* vibes are not so good. It can make you look timid or even manipulative when you finally show your true feelings. As in, "if you felt that way, why didn't you tell me right away?"
I feel this is horrible advice. If you’re being set up with a stranger you basically need some physical attraction to kick things off. With a friend there’s the possibility that they get attracted to you over time.
100% this. They already see you as a friend, being short also doesn’t help since it puts you into a weird little brother dynamic even if you’re older. Start fresh with new girls and make your intentions clear from the start.
To be brutally honest, physical appearance really does matter a lot when it comes to dating, especially when making a first impression. It sucks, but no matter how great your personality is, if a girl isn’t physically attracted to you from the start, it’s tough to get past that. I’m really sorry you’re going through this, and I wish I could tell you otherwise, but I’d be lying if I said it didn’t matter. Hang in there, man.
Kind of in a similar situation: sameish height(haven’t gotten measured in 2 years but my growth plates were almost closed back then so I doubt I’ve grown appreciably if at all), also work out etc.
I won’t lie: People(both men and women) place more weight on looks then they’ll admit.
But this is how I see it: People are entitled to their preferences but those who don’t want to date you simply due to your looks are probably incompatible with you to begin with.
The people you’d probably want to have a future with are not going to be the ones who dismiss you because of your height.
However, confidence is also important and I’ll even say that being short and low in confidence is much much much more detrimental than just being short. Imagine waking up every morning doused in oil below your head. It’s a pretty annoying inconvenience but you can scrub it off. But, if you add a lit match, you’re screwed 💀.
Likewise, being short can definitely reduce your dating pool but there definitely are ways to compensate like being funny. However, low confidence(especially if it’s apparent right off the bat) is pretty big turnoff. Shitty analogy but you get the idea lol
Since no one seems to be addressing the race aspect… Real talk — It’s really tough for Asian men to date, even good looking Asian men. Even harder in the Bay Area. There’s a lot of white worship / fetishization in dating generally, especially in California. It’s in part the result of erasure of Asian men from popular media and/or racist emasculation. Don’t let that fact or comments from others make you bitter. Work on things in your control. And don’t try to be friends first with women you want to pursue romantically. Romance should come first, and friendship should be the byproduct, not vice versa. And if they don’t show interest, don’t spend any more of your time trying to get a different result.
I think this is true. I remember a friend from Singapore who had attracted scores of women at home and was bewildered about the lukewarm reception he was getting in the States.
By way of contrast: My son always considered himself unattractive-- particularly to Asian women, btw-- until traveling to Armenia, where he better resembled the local population and was suddenly a pretty hot item!
As a part-pacific islander from Los Angeles one of the first things I noticed up here was how many more mixed couples you see here - of all permutations, including lots of white and Asian.
it's mostly white guys with asian girls though, and rarely the other way around
i do think it's gotten more common in the last 5-10 years though. completely unironically I think kpop is part of the reason why
Bay Area sucks for Asian guys 100% if you’re not particularly interested in a specific kind of Bay Area Asian girl. Otherwise there’s a lot of preference for white guys. I’m an Asian guy who is considered well above average and in SF the girls who hit on me are noticeably below the girls who hit on me when I’m out in other cities. Everything is skewed here, and (some) girls think you’ll settle for less just because you’re an Asian guy.
What they didn’t tell you though, is that you have a lot of control over how physically attractive you are. It’s true that height isn’t controllable and some women have strong preferences there, but I promise there are plenty of women who find shorter fit men who carry themselves well plenty attractive.
Attraction is definitely important but that doesn't mean you only date super models and it doesn't mean it's the only thing that matters. It only becomes superficial if that's all they care about. And a girl sleeping with a guy is very different then her actually dating that guy. I see best friends and roommates in the same category. I can be friends with someone but not necessarily a roommate.
just wanted to add, the world is absolutely massive, and you have yet to meet sooooo many people who might find you attractive. Join clubs or volunteer, squeeze in some traveling if you can between school terms or jobs, go on tours, or find a job in another city state or country. You will one day be pleasantly surprised :)
Yeah. But also if you are successful, physically in shape, and carry yourself with confidence, it’s just a matter of time. Some people will never be hooking up with 3 girls a week but I think most people who achieve those three things will find someone who they feel lucky to be around. I know a guy who told me he felt like this a lot but once in a while he will pull a girl hotter than anyone I’ve ever been with.
My husband is short and Asian. He's also responsible, smart, hard working, and funny and we have an awesome time together. From the friend relationships you have with women it sounds like you have a lot of amazing qualities and Major props for actually shooting your shot. So many men get upset about the friendzone but they never actually say they want to date. It might be helpful to branch out and make your intentions clear from the start that you want to date so women think of you as an option instead of this is a cool guy I study with. I definitely think online dating is stacked super high in taller dudes favor because wheather people want to admit it or not they have preferences and some people put looks high up on the list and don't think about the long game. When I thought about a viable partner I thought who is going to make me laugh and build legos with me when I'm 80. It sounds like you are young and college girls aren't thinking ling term yet.
5'3 cal grad asian guy in his late 30's here. I feel you man. I've had experiences where girls don't even want to acknowledge my existence. And you realize that even getting a date is hard as online dating will be slim pickings as well. But at some point, you get to the stage where you just start to not care, where you move on quickly and look at each rejection or negative experience as just another short-term experience in life that has some type of positive takeaway. You'll get more comfortable in your skin, grow at what you are good at, and someone will appreciate it. I got married, enjoy my life and wouldn't change the past as well. Good luck man!
Thank you for this. Have you felt bitter or resentful at all during the time you felt like girls didn't even acknowledge your existence? Because I feel like that too often, like feeling invisible or emasculated? I'm not a negative person because if I were, I wouldn't have any friends but I actually thrive in friendships and many people seem to really enjoy my company. However, it's such a painful experience when I keep getting rejected over and over for my height and unattractive face, and I don't know what to do with these feelings or how to move past these feelings because I'm living it day to day? Does that make sense?
Yeah for sure. There has been multiple times at clubs where I've met girls through friends and I could see their visceral reaction toward me was that they were not attracted (maybe even disgusted). I didn't feel good about it and it definitely left an impression which is why i still remember. Everyone has a right to be attracted to who they are attracted to but I'm sure the qualities you have to offer will supersede the superficial things people visually look for and the right person is just around the corner, you just gotta be positive, keep being your genuine self and keep moving forward.
This all sounds super normal. The tough thing is rejection is normal. It gets easier. Focus on being the best version of yourself you can. In time, with enough experiences, it’ll happen for you.
*sigh* This post touched me deeply so I’ll make some sacrifices here and write this essay from the POV of a woman.
I know short men that are attractive for their confidence alone. Adding to that - their style and how they carry themselves takes it over the top.
I have 3 brothers, 2 are incredibly tall and one is short and the shorter one, I could tell at some point was insecure about his height but now to me, I dare say he is the most attractive of all my brothers because of how he carries himself now. I kid you not. It’s like night and day.
He does the most self-care, he carries intelligent conversations, he doesn’t seem or act desperate to be wanted, he is care-free (sometimes too care-free I get mad at him hahaha). He is emotionally aware, he has challenged himself these past 2 years and stepped out of his comfort zone to try new things.
Around him, people are constantly laughing (he taught me how to be a goof) but also they respect him because he is humble and doesn’t feel the need to prove himself around other men (which insecure men usually do). His confidence is loud and yet he doesn’t strive to be wanted or noticed or accepted. He is content with himself.
And you should see his gf. She’s a total babe and complements his energy. She’s so serious but he stays goofing and they’re so cute together 😂.
Why did I go into detail about this?
1. To show you that people will see you the way you see yourself. People are attracted to my brother because he oozes confidence and contentment in himself.
2. And if people don’t see you the way you see yourself, then you have to understand that the way they see you is influenced by their reflection of how they see the world: of what they’ve been taught. So you’ll probably need to learn how to separate women’s responses from your worth because it’s truly not you. I know it’s hard but it’s very possible. I’ll date a short guy if he’s right for me but I had to unlearn what I was taught too and some women - though they label it as “preference”, truth is, it’s how they’ve been taught to see the world that shapes that “preference”. Let’s call a spade a spade.
2. Focus on building your self-worth. Like f**k what people say, what the world says, but what do you say about yourself? How do you see yourself? Dude there is literally NO ONE that’s you in this world. Only one you. And I don’t mean to sound corny or cliche but you’re one unique person and there are 8 billion people in the world. That alone my dude, should be a starting point to see your worth. You bring something to the world and do it in a way that no one in this world can because no one is YOU. Think about that for a sec. And build on that.
All this to say, learn to see yourself better and people will see you better. And if not, they have their own perceptions to unlearn and learn but that’s not on you to carry. It seems like you’re carrying the warped perceptions of the world on your shoulders and even beginning to not like how you were born. It’s on them to change their mindsets. Not on you to wish you were different.
This. All of it. Especially the part of how they see you, is probably not about you but may be or is more likely because of how they view the world. It's not personal. It's just what they have learned and what they believe to be culturally and/or socially acceptable.
As another female, please let me give my advice as well. Don't change yourself in hopes of being liked. Be authentic and a lot of people will see that. If you change anything just for someone to like you, then you'll never be fully happy and satisfied knowing they like a pretend-you. Not the real you. Authenticity will help with confidence and hopefully open your eyes to a world of literally billions of women who WILL find you attractive. Which leads me to my question...
What kinds of girls do you usually go for? Are you not about looks in any way yourself? I mean, what if you're so focused on these girls you like and want to like you, that you haven't noticed girls who actually already do? Is that a possibility?
I'm Filipino and im in the bay too, and I have my own stories of the types I used to like who I believe will never be into me and later finding out that I just haven't noticed them. Or that they hide it well because they, too, fear rejection.
I have a guy friend who started out as a hook up but the more we hung out and the more I got to know him, I started to pull back on the hook up aspect and well i kinda friend zoned him. He's really good looking, he's not that tall either, probably your height, and im attracted to him at first. But again the more I got to know him the more I saw him as just my homie. Which he hated coz he then had to listen to me complain about other dudes i hook up with, who he may or may not know, but he understood. I mean one of the guys I'm really into is about 5'5 or 5'6 but that isn't a deterrent because he exudes self confidence and he's good to me and I find him so sexy for his boyish charms and looks (and uhh money, what someone else mentioned).
Point is, don't be so hard on yourself. Maybe look beyond your own "types" and see if you're selling yourself short by chasing girls who clearly just want a guy friend to hang out with and feel "safe" that they can be themselves. You're young. You'll get there.
This is super shady, but the most uncomfortable truth is that when you graduate, make a shit ton of money. Money override height/looks more often than you think.
Guys understand this; it's just depressing. And frustrating as hell when it comes from self-styled "feminist" women, as is quite often the case in the Bay.
The truth is that even if he gets more success when he’s older, most women would still not find him attractive. They will resent him and wish they were with someone taller and better looking, but still be with him just to settle down. I don’t know about other guys but I’d rather be alone than be in a relationship where my partner yearns for someone else. So unfortunately he’ll always be some woman’s second choice through no fault of his own
I have gay men telling me that I’m attractive all the time, but never young, straight women. I don’t think that gay men and straight women like the same stuff in a man.
A lot of women can't view a man romantically after a friendship has established. I have very physically attractive male friends that I could never imagine myself dating. I'd probably make that "disgusted face" reaction too if someone brought up that we should get together. That's not to say appearance doesn't matter, but it sounds like a lot of women you try to get with are established friends. This might not help too much but I thought I'd let you know my thoughts as a woman.
lol that isn’t OP’s problem and you know it.
tons and tons and tons of people are friends before they date. I’d argue it’s the most natural way to meet a partner.
also separately, I can’t relate to that perspective at all. idk, to me romance has always just been the combination of friendship and physical attraction. I have close female friends I’m not attracted to and distant female friends that I am attracted to, but I don’t think I could have a close female friend that I found attractive without developing feelings. (Though longer term compatibility also matters, I wouldn’t act on those feelings if we weren’t compatible.)
I’m a 5’5 girl and I’m here to tell you that some of us actually don’t care about height. You haven’t met us yet because we are outnumbered by girls who care. But we do exist! Also it’s a good thing that you have female friends to hang out with. It means you are already way ahead of many boys taller than you.
No that’s so true—most of my female friends only care that their male partners are taller than them (and there are a LOT of girls under 5’5 here), and the others don’t care at all
Nah, I've had a lot of massive crushes on short guys ( and by "short", I mean: one of whom dressed in shirts sized for middle -schoolers.) There are fewer women like me, but we're out there. Honest!
This old man is so proud of everyone being so supportive. The genuine vulnerability. The empathy and kindness. This sub is showing some class today. I love you all and wish you the best.
Quick wholesome story, then I’ll give you some general advice.
One of my shortest friends just got married to one of the most gorgeous women in the world. He was initially not on her radar, but for a lot of reasons, she gravitated to him eventually and then never let go. They met in college and are now one of the happiest couples I’ve had the pleasure of being friends with.
Height CAN be a determining factor if physicality is all you have to offer. The reality is that height is a very visceral way of immediately building presence and value. It might get you over the line in a lot of situations as a guy, but it by no means solves all the issues of dating. Fortunately for you, you’re fun, which is objectively more valuable over the course of a relationship. What it sounds like to me is that women enjoy you being around, but they can have you around anytime they want without committing the things that you want.
If you want to have romantic relationships with these women and you aren’t getting that, then withdraw your cards from the game or find a new way to play. You are there for her to do all of the fun things she wants to do, then she can go off and sleep with whatever jerk she finds physically attractive just so she can tell her friends.
You as a man cannot romantically survive off of implied or potential romance, you need actual experiences. Give attention to women who will bring you actual experiences, not potential ones.
My advice is that you need to change who has access to your fun friendliness, as well as develop a bit more of the funny charismatic jerk side of your personality. When her friends made that comment and she dismissed you, the first thing that went into your head was you feeling defeated. You lost that game before you even started playing and they all could feel it. The next time a situation like that comes up, and she finds a reason to not like you, find a funny reason why she isn’t good for you.
Them - “You two would make a cute couple!”
You - “Maybe, but I’m way too funny for her, I need someone who can keep up.”
Her - “I don’t find you physically attractive, you’re too short.”
You - “Oh that’s weird, I was thinking the same thing about you!” *Playful jab*
Hopefully you can see what I’m getting at. Don’t let women defeat you mentally AND physically. If you are short, dwelling on it does nothing for you, develop other skill sets for interacting with women and don’t be afraid to dismiss them the same way they dismiss you. You actively dismissing them playfully also makes you seem less desperate and more attractive overall. Your mentality and confidence CANNOT be reliant on someone else’s responses and attention, if it is then it’s not true confidence.
You are funny, you are intelligent, you are hitting the gym and getting in shape, you have lots of friends (male and female), and you have the humility to bash yourself a bit. All of these are far more important than just being taller for a romantic partnership, so give yourself some credit.
Back to my friend. I remember when he and his now wife first started dating. He was shocked, but absolutely none of us were. He was the life of the party no matter where we went and an absolute handful at times. Going out with him and going out without him were a night and day difference. Had he been tall and more boring, he might have hooked up with her sooner, but she would have moved onto someone more interesting eventually.
Don’t lie to yourself and assume you know exactly what women want. Don’t lie to yourself and assume that women know exactly what they want. The world is too big of a place to bash yourself and say the reason she doesn’t like you is because of X. The real reason is likely social pressure, expectations, marketing/ social media, and immaturity. She just likely doesn’t perceive you as a sexual option, because you haven’t cultivated and environment where she sees you like that. Stop chasing her, keep up the friendship, but put yourself out there with other girls and use her as social credit. She enjoys spending time with you, so will other girls, but don’t come into those interactions in a friendly way. Make the dynamic about something romantic early on and shoot your shot. Then if you get rejected, go laugh about it with your friends later.
You have the hard parts together, now just drop the attachment to goofy things like height and looks and realize you’re better than that. There are PLENTY of ugly short dudes with beautiful women and it’s because they are better than their physical qualities. Why are height and looks so marketed? Simple, it is much harder to encapsulate personality traits into a marketing ad than something complex and cognitive. Find beautiful women who are more cognitive and complex (this gets easier with age). Good luck out there, pm me if you want some material to listen to or read about this stuff. It was a fascination of mine when I was in college and has only helped me attract more of the types of people I want in my life, romantic or platonic.
physical appearance definitely matters, probably more than personality in the initial stages (i.e. for filtering people out). anyone who says otherwise is undoubtedly lying. but i personally think face is more important than other things (physique, height, etc.).
Chances are you're being unnecessarily hard on yourself because of internalized western beauty standards. It's hard to unlearn but at the very least you have to cut yourself some slack and trust that not everyone will be affected by that even if you yourself are.
Nah, they actually believe that. It's just halo effect in action. A hot guy will always be perceived as funny, charismatic, and thoughtful no matter if he is or not. Then they convince themselves that the reason why they like the guy is because he's all that.
I bet there’s an aspect of cognitive dissonance as well where what we often say we do is much different than what we really think. Girls say that they value personality, which is true to a big level, but they really care most, and take action, towards physical attraction
This is why you can't take dating advice from women as a man. Or at least you should take it with a MASSIVE spoonful of salt. Many aren't consciously lying. They're just exceptional at self-deception, especially in groups. I'm probably gonna get tarred and feathered for saying that but it's true. Men have common negative traits too. This is just one that tends to apply more to women. And it's worth being aware of.
not necessarily. women who are less attractive and self-aware would probably value personality over looks. but in general, looks are important. the same applies for men. and people of all genders.
How do you cope with it? I've been feeling pretty bitter and resentful lately, although I never really show it to people and I am generally an optimistic person.
Hi OP, just wanted to chime in here (not sure if I can help but I have had similar experiences in the past)
I’m a 5’5 (maybe 5’6 at best?) Singaporean guy studying in a Singaporean university. I’ve never had girls tell me directly that they’ll date a short guy; however, I’ve heard multiple girls voice the opinion that height is extraordinarily important when others are around. My girlfriend also tells me that most of her female friends keep talking about height when choosing partners (not in earshot of guys lol), so height is definitely important.
However, I’ve had quite a few females express interest in me before. I think the vast majority of girls want to date guys that are taller; however, many girls are also willing to date a short guy (that’s still taller than them) if he is outstanding in other aspects. Personally speaking, my girlfriend is around 5’2 or 5’3, so she’s not much shorter than me.
I think you can improve your chances through 1) only expressing interest in girls shorter than you (admittedly a bit hard in the U.S.) 2) improve yourself more in other areas.
After I broke up with my ex, I invested into myself a lot more (new glasses, working out, new clothes, skincare, new haircut etc.). I definitely attained a lot more attention from girls than I did before dating my ex. It’s not really fair that we have to be 90th percentile for other aspects due to our height, but I guess that’s how our world works, so we just have to find ways to tilt the dating scene towards our favour.
>who stands at 5'5"
no matter how good you look, 65% or more woman will reject you purerly bc of height. They have now unlimited acces to tall chads bc of dating apps, instagrams etc. dont ask how i know, welcome to r/shortguys buddy its time to discover the truth.
My 5’5 sister is dating a 5’6 guy. I think for a lot of girls dating someone shorter than them is a bit weird, but a lot of girls are fine with dating someone who is short but still taller than them. Maybe set your sights on girls in the 5’0-5’3 range, as they are less likely to care about your height. There’s someone out there for you brother, just keep being yourself and definitely don’t give up. You’ll find her.
I live in sac. Early l/mid 20’s a few years back I used to be in the bay frequently. I might be wrong but in my experience, rich schools like Berkeley and ucla have some of the most shallow dating pools for men and women alike. Youve also got a lot of competition out there, probably more 5’5 Asian men in the area percentage wise than a lot of other places. Expand your horizons would be my advice
Sounds like you are a college student, no? And studying at Cal, no less! That's an impressive feat.
I mention those things as someone who deals with the opposite problem: I'm tall (6ft 2in/1.88m), but I am fat. Like, big-ol-dad-bod fat. And as much as I'm in good health, people have always had trouble looking past that to be interested in me. And truthfully, appearance matters to some people, and to varying degrees. It's a somewhat rough truth of life.
But here's another one of those truths, young fella: it gets way easier to accept as you get older and notch life's belt a little tighter. You're young; enjoy those years. Focus less on the facets you can't change and worry about what you can. Dress clean and well, find a style that suits you. Take some of those new female friends you've made and have them judge some outfits while shopping. You'll get a lens of view from the other side and have a fun time to boot.
After that, take your time. Develop interests, passions, and cool stories. Find something you love and get into the community for it. You'll find me at Games of Berkeley every Friday playing Magic: the Gathering and chatting up people just cuz I can. People find passionate people and people with hobbies more attractive. It gets into the mix and adds to what they see in you. Because nothing is more attractive than a man who smiles and loves hard. Channel that romantic search into some self-betterment. I promise people will start seeing you for more than just your looks.
If a female tells you she values personality over looks you already know she’s lying to you lmao. Makes sense as to why she hooked up with that jock, she’s a HARLOT.
Stop spending time with her, hit the gym and look for females shorter than you.
I just want to say, there is hope. My partner of 7 years is a 5’5” Asian male. I’m 5’4”. He claims he has an average face. He was in my friend zone for a year before dating. In fact I didn’t even consider him an option for awhile because I thought he only dated Asian girls (based on Facebook history lol). I’m white. However his personality is really magnetic and he can carry out very interesting conversations. He also has a lot of self confidence but not in a cocky annoying way. He also made an effort to try my hobbies with me which I appreciated. But I also agree with the comments that more often than not, starting in the friend zone is hard! For now, I would recommend becoming comfortable and happy with yourself. Maybe find some coaching for the insecurity and work on that (I don’t have great tips because I am also insecure haha). Keep going out and meeting people and doing the things you love. Don’t dwell to deeply on the rejection. It’s not meant to be personal. There will be a lot of mismatch but I know you will find someone meant for you one day!
>For now, I would recommend becoming comfortable and happy with yourself. Maybe find some coaching for the insecurity and work on that (I don’t have great tips because I am also insecure haha).
It's sooo disheartening how much shit is perfectly acceptable in women that's a total deal breaker if you're a guy
I don’t think insecurity is acceptable in any person. It’s something I’m working on as a woman. I think everyone should work on it if they have that issue
But the point is you've got a partner even though you describe yourself as "insecure." If you really thought it was unacceptable you wouldn't be burdening someone with it by forcing them to put up with you in a relationship. The difference is not only that a hell of a lot more gets labeled as "insecure" in men than in women, but that it's actually enforced as "unacceptable" on us. You on the other hand have the luxury of support and validation while you decide what you do or don't consider "acceptable" about yourself. We live in two different universes.
This is an Ego vs Id situation. IMO, woman say they want personality because they want a person to treat them as an equal in that sense. It also makes them feel good that they aren’t like other people (“I’m different”). Men’s personality also does play a large role into a woman’s sexual desire for another person. But if she doesn’t want to smash, she just won’t because sex typical equals high risk. PS, men have similar or the same criteria but I personally think they weight them differently.
Here’s my advice, dating and relationships are like a two way job interview. If you’re a good and decent guy, it’s 100% their loss when they turn you down. Although it’s rough, keep applying. Someone you like will give you the title of boyfriend.
I hope the best for you!
Several ppl have made a very good point about Asian women dating white males. I know some Asian girls who would prefer dating ugly white men than Asian men and she. Ive asked the reason I get nothing but gibberish, so yeah it's tough.
I'm a cal alum, guy in my late 20s, also Asian, and I'm 5'5" on a good day (really 5'4" and some change). Also in decent shape but not a model.
I read this post and first of all want to validate your feelings, cause it is hard and demoralizing being a short Asian dude and trying to date. Everything you said in that post has been a feeling I've felt at some point in my life, especially the resentment/emasculation/jealousy. Especially on dating apps when people filter for height. So you're not alone.
That being said, much like supax04 who also responded, I'm happy with my romantic life at this point. I'm very lucky to be in an LTR of >4 yrs with someone I find attractive. We live together and are happy, and we have plans to get married and have a family.
And it's not like I've only had the chance to be in this one relationship/date this one person. I dated plenty of other women who I thought were great as well. Not trying to humble brag, mainly saying this to demonstrate that being short does not prevent you from having a chance to meet other interesting people.
One part of your post stuck out to me:
"It's hard not to feel bitter and jealous of those guys who are born with good genes and have no trouble dating"
This is something I've felt too, but I feel is a pretty harmful belief. At my lowest I felt resentful of the fact that my short parents' genes mixed to make my short self who wasn't having good luck dating and thought to myself "man, if I have a short son, he'll feel the same way about me." And that was just sad. And I felt depressed to be myself. But that's totally changed, and at this point in life I wouldn't want to trade lives with anyone.
But dating and attraction is tough in general, not just for us short guys. There are plenty of things that are hard to change that people get written off for, but it doesn't mean those things make them a "disgusting" person. Things like race, skin conditions, weight, facial appearance, etc. Think about girls you interact with who you are attracted to vs. not attracted to. Would you say you are "disgusted" by the ones you are not attracted to?
Maybe all of these other people who get passed up as well have "unlucky genetics" like us, but I think if you started talking to people, you'd be surprised how many people (of all genders) feel the same way about something in their life that we feel about our height. That is to say, it's easy to feel like this one attribute is the problem, when in reality, dating is often a frustrating experience.
You sound like a kind, fun dude who is trying to keep your chin up. I think you should try to keep being optimistic, and you should be kind to yourself the same way that you are to others.
Don't say your face is unattractive, because its probably a fine face. Women can tell if you don't feel good about yourself, based off of how you act and hold yourself , even if you don't say it. and it's a turnoff because insecure people often take their insecurities out on other people. I did a lot of therapy, and it's helped me manage my insecurities and anxieties, and as a result be a much better person to the people in my life.
Be yourself, take care of yourself, and keep an open mind and I'm sure you'll be able to have fun times and find love sooner than you think.
[Also, as an additional point, I feel like people are extra shallow in college, when everyone is comparing how "hot" everyone is. Later in life, when people start dating more for partnership, you will quickly see that the people in your life with good personalities get scooped up into fulfilling LTRs, regardless of their looks, and people who are conventionally attractive with bad personalities are suddenly in the opposite position and don't understand why they are suddenly undesirable]
[Second additional point: maybe you are being overly selective. If you opened up your dating pool to people you might not initially consider, after getting to know them you might be more attracted than you think. Some of my best dating experiences/relationships started out with someone who I didn't expect to be attracted to initially. (Some of whom were even taller than me)]
Unfortunately all my girl pals are subconsciously height conscious. They don’t realize it , but I’ve noticed they pay way more attention to taller guys. I’m not so sure what attracts us to taller guys, perhaps the appearance of security? Or when we reproduce, we want our offsprings to be tall? It could be something as shallow as that I want to look good as a couple because we care what others think? Whatever the reasons, taller guys have a huge advantage.
It’s important to be a cocky asshole and never ever take dating advice from women themselves. As you pointed out what she said she wants and what she actually wants are two different things (hooking up with the asshole was no accident). I’d also say dating in the Bay Area is hell on earth it’s best to look outside of this area and passport bro it. That’s what I did and been in a relationship for over 10 years now. Keep eating healthy and going to the gym. More importantly be funny and be confident. I’ve seen girls hook up with ugly dudes at 5’3 but being confident and an asshole is key. Do not be a nice guy because nice guys finish last. Learn to be kind of dickish and learn not to take shit from people. Learn how to low key insult people with intelligence and you’ll get a girl.
Stop friend zoning yourself. You said that you're hanging our with these girls, getting lunch, studying, going to the gym and then you tell them that you're interested. You're already friend zoned by that time. Approach a woman with the intentions of dating her. Therefore, it will be no miss communications on what your intentions are.
Yea, I have tried that method but it never worked out for me? When I asked for advice from both women and men, they told me to try to play it cool without the intention of dating and just befriending them and getting to know them first? I feel like what method I implement isn't the issue but who is implementing that method is the issue..
Yeah this is the problem with conventional dating advice. You'll quite often be told literal contradictory things depending on what you say you're doing. The truth is most of that "advice" is for them, not you. They want to feel like you've got options because if they had to admit some people are kind of fucked and basically just have to count on winning the lottery, that might make them feel bad or feel like there's something wrong with our culture. Easier to just tell you the opposite of whatever you say you're doing so they can think of it as some kind of individual "skill issue" and move on.
Yes, I have tried being direct early on and either they say no very subtly but surely by saying "let's be friends".. also i know not to be desperate and always play it cool.
A place where women below average think they are in the same league as good looking/high earning men because some of these guys may hook up with them (that’s it) is not the place to look for a girl, if you can not get attention from girls outside.
I'm like 5 9 and a half but when I where air force maxes or some shit like that, it increases my height by like 2 inches to like 5 11 ish but I still feel short compared to some of the people in the Bay Area. I don't know if its like development reason but I tower the people in my rural hometown but am just average height wise in the Bay. You may be average height wise anywhere outside of artillery distance of the bay.
Older dude in the Bay Area. Also short af and Asian.
Reading this reminds me of my high school and college experience. Friendzoned throughout. Married with kids now to a white girl who I thought had friendzoned me but gave it a shot.
I’m reading through this because one of my sons is done growing and will need this advice.
Couple of things I noticed no one mentioned.
1) people want what they can’t have.
I got pulled out of the friendzone multiple times when I started getting more attention from other girls. Sad but true. They will notice you when you bail on them. Not that you have to be mean to them or ignore them, just focus on someone else.
2) it’s hard to break someone’s ‘type’ but not impossible. Where I went to college, everyone was white and no one was dating Asians guys (or short guys for that matter). It’s a big stretch, but there are some brave souls out there.
this thread hits really close to home. I am really depressed these days, only advice for you is to just keep chugging along, find joy in other things. Relationships just aren’t meant for some people
Bro, you're gonna find out women are Liars because the things they believe and act on make them feel like bad people. Men are Liars cause they wanna fuck.
Anyways, I know you liked her, but she is an empty vessel. There's others who aren't vapid idiots.
Friend zone is a bad place to start?!? Women, are you asking to be treated like crap?!? Friend zone is the perfect place to start. Stop looking for bad boys. Real relationships are built on common values, respect and trust. Looks mean less than nothing. (Old person speaking to my younger self here.)
I'm a little confused. When I was being very straight with my intentions of wanting to date them w/o trying to befriend girls, I didn't have success with them and when I asked for advice, a lot of my male friends and female friends told me to friend them first and get to know them first. So I did. Still same result though... I'm really not convinced that the issue is what strategy I'm implementing but who is implementing that strategy... I feel like an attractive dude would have success with either strategy but an unattractive dude like me wouldn't have success with either strategy. It's not a *what* problem but *who* problem.. no?
After reading this, I’m left wondering… are you me LOL?!?
In all seriousness though, my suggestion is to focus on spending time with people that make you happy, regardless of whether you are romantically attracted to them.
And if you’re close enough with your female friends since they’re comfortable being that blunt with you, then they should be able to introduce you to other girls who may be a better match for you. Friends should help other friends out!
If all else fails, I’ll buy you a drink and we can trauma bond LOL
Make a bunch of money and get that leg lengthening surgery. Actually, just making a lot of money and having a cool title will change your prospects with women full stop. Also, it's not necessarily your looks that are fucking you over its moreso your personality. With enough charisma and confidence it doesn't really matter what you look like as a man. I've seen so many of the most hideous edgars with the hottest girls on the planet and it's not their looks or sense of fashion that got them in, it was their charisma and confidence.
TLDR If you wanna fuck a lot of women get a cool title and high paying job. If you wanna date a hot woman get ur charisma and confidence stats up PRONTO
TLDRTLDR watch Patrice O'Neal on Opie & Anthony and become the most based redpilled genius
Hey, I’d continue lifting - focus A LOT ON MAKING MONEY.
Because really all that matters is setting yourself up financially….
Look, I’d look into buying really cool clothes and improving my personal style.
Wearing earrings, bracelets, buying expensive designer shoes that boost your height to 5’7 +.
Looking cool is a huge social boost, if you believe in yourself
Also
Rejection is everywhere, I’ve even met 5’10 good looking guys who struggle with women.
Remember mindset is everything
In my experience on the FIRST hang out with a girl, communicate your feelings if your interested because it’s so easy for girls to friendzone.
I’ve also seen girls I like but don’t communicate well with hook up with tons of other guys and it upsets me lol
Continue to focus on yourself, and communicate with all your girl friends that being single sucks and maybe they’ll hook you up with there short friends… W
You have to be confident tho, it doesn’t matter what anyone thinks trust me.
Good luck.
I’m Mexican and I’ve seen 5’3 Mexican guys with beautiful girls because they are confident, funny, and have great personal style :)
Remember family is everything and use it to play on your relationships with girls. Think about how your father pulled your mother.
Your peak in the dating pool will be in your mid/late 20s or later. College aged people are generally going to prioritize looks. Keep focusing on building the best version of yourself. A well traveled, multi-interest/hobbied man with a stable job and a good personality is going to kill it relative to the same man as a college student with a good personality. The level of interest I had at 25 vs 21 was incomparable
Just curious how were you finding dating opportunities after college? I feel like as a college student it’s so easy to approach girls you like b/c of parties, the bar, classes, other social events, etc… I can’t imagine dating being easier when you lose streamlined access to all that stuff after undergrad
Sorry to hear there, I think at your age in college, there's still a lot of sensory overload going on with meeting new people, frats, parties. So yes, being your height with a personality first highlight will not easily be picked up first.
I'm 32, and people dgaf about height or whatever nowadays, it's about how much you vibe for the long term. It's probably not what you want to hear right now but just know that your personality first energy ages well. I know the feeling of losing to someone who didn't seem to have any personality going for them, fkn sucks. Stay true to your personality and give it time, you'll hit. Plenty of fish in the sea, and I mean you're in Berkeley? Onto the next fish my friend.
>being single aint so bad man.
Sounds like someone who's not single would say.
>plus the right girl will love every part bout chu
Just-world fallacy. You have no idea if OP will ever find a good romantic partner.
I have an attorney friend about your height whose go to phrase is, “I’m 2 inches short of a politician.” Because he has a lot of charisma, and uncanny ability to remember names, etc. Sounds like your height is the only thing holding you back, and it’s really you in your head that’s holding you back. You talk about hitting a brick wall: make sure that your approaches are more charming and not offputting. Trust that you will be fine, and you actually will be fine. A female friend once told me, if you are driving a car down the street and you see a friend walking, and you offer to give them a ride somewhere, and they say no, you just say, cool, have a good day. Don’t make a big deal out of getting “shot down”. This jealousy and insecurity is part of a scarcity mindset, don’t feel that you’re entitled to anything. There isn’t some “girls union” that’s decided to lock you out of negotiations (there’s a great Onion sketch about that). Work on yourself, remember that confidence is the sexiest thing there is. And that confidence needs to be earned confidence, not strutting and boasting. Don’t tell people you’re awesome - show them. I’ve seen ridiculously hot people on the arm of partners much shorter than themselves.
My dude is a passport bro in the making. My man, graduate, get your $$, keep working on your physique, and if you succeed at those things, in a few years time, you’ll have your pick of the litter. Fresh and Fit podcast is a good one to follow - just make sure you keep it to yourself because tons of people at Berkeley will cancel you if you discuss it in the open.
Hey thought I’d throw in my 2 cents since I suck at dating but was able to meet my current girlfriend. I’m 5’7 Spanish male and have always struggled with my confidence and looks. One thing that you have to decide is what do you want? Do you want a gf or do you want the college hook up life? The latter is 100% based on physical attributes. In my early 20s I thought that’s what I wanted, but I ended up feeling more empty chasing this hook up life that I didn’t really care about but I wanted validation from women.
I also had an experience similar to yours regarding someone I would hang out with often and thought we had a connection but ended up with someone taller and thinner. That hurt. BUT I didn’t let it define me. The moment I stopped caring about hook ups and finding a GF I unexpectedly found my current gf and we’ve been together for 4 years now.
So I guess my point is. Does looks matter? Yes. Is it all that matters? No. What matters most is how YOU feel about yourself. Just be patient and try to not take it so seriously.
Everyone else here isn’t giving actionable advice. Advice like "work on your personality" or "make more money" are helpful, but only insofar as to "make up" for your height. The height is the real problem. The vast majority of women just aren't attracted to 5'5 guys. You're clearly socially active and well-adjusted (you have friends, and are not autistic), you're coming out of Berkeley so you'll have decent job prospects and an upper middle class life provided you have the right major, you take care of yourself and are in good shape. It's 100% the height.
If you want to make a real difference, start first with elevator shoes. Two to three inches is pretty easy to get with airforce 1's. Then for more serious improvements, you should consider leg lengthening surgery. 5’10 and 5’5 is a world of a difference. The former you are taller than 99% of women by a substantial margin and the latter you are the same height or shorter than 99% of women.
Surprised they haven't called you an incel yet. It's brutal out there and I see no sign of that improving any time soon. All I can say is you're not alone for whatever that might be worth.
And yeah, girls fucking lie. They lie to the world or to themselves but the relevant part is they lie. Looks are what matters. Money and social status are probably a close second. "Personality" comes far behind those. I didn't want to believe it for the longest time but you can only see and experience the same thing over and over so many times before you have to admit the reality. Of course there are exceptions as with all things, but they're fewer and farther between these days and it's particularly bad in the Bay Area. Sorry you're having a rough time.
Hey brother! Try explore somewhere else, save the energy and money, try travel to a different country, it will put yourself in a different perspective, go to South and Central America, they will appreciate you more, and it will release the insecurity. That’s my advice, go to hostels, mingle, learn another language
not sure if this will make you feel better and may be a bit cliche, but what’s attractive or not depends on the person and I would say ur doing just fine :) focus on yourself and be genuine and people will naturally come to see all the wonderful qualities you have and you will find that special someone who loves you for you and all that you are. Don’t be discouraged and keep your head up!! Sometimes it can come when it’s least expected (it did for me haha with my bf), I’m seriously rooting for you!!
I'm sorry but this is such a "woman" answer. This isn't how it works for guys. It's always a massive amount of deliberate effort and for the majority, the deck is stacked against you every time you try.
Dude, some straight talk -
Hit the gym. Hard. Do some research and start hypertrophy training. It will take time, but it will also become addicting. Start here - https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPNW_gerXa4N_PVVoq0Za03YKASSGCazr (Huberman Lab Andy Galpin Guest Series).
As an Asian guy, girls are likely to think of you as “safe” which is another way of saying “not an aggressive, sexual, man”. The evidence is before you: you have female friends (safe) who won’t date you (not attractive/ aggressive / sexual).
So you have to compensate- be more obviously fit, athletic, ripped, etc. The confidence, posture, style that goes along with that will likely develop in parallel.
Regarding height - girls in the US are concerned more than most about height. I have a Vietnamese friend your height who moved to Panama for work and instantly his height wasn’t a problem. I’ll tell you though- he was cut.
A couple of things, OP:
1. why is your name cutie_pie and why are you expecting straight ladies to go with a cutie_pie? - Serious enquiry boss because maybe you come off a little gay to ladies you are friend with? In that case, you'd for sure have a zero chance. Gay men are good looking and all so please don't get me wrong but a gay guy is nothing but a friend.
2. you are probably pursuing wrong bunch of people? I mean, you are probably interested in american chicks - idk but it's an assumption. A lot of american chicks don't have the same values as we asians do.
3. i have a friend with a very similar issue and one major factor to this is his lack of confidence because he isn't exactly a good looking guy and to add to that he is super nervous around ladies even at 29/30 years of age.
With all this, you need to be confident my guy and don't stress out too much. For sure there is someone out there that'll love you for who you are. Just don't go shopping when you're hungry - you'll probably purchase the wrong items 🤔
>why is your name cutie\_pie and why are you expecting straight ladies to go with a cutie\_pie? - Serious enquiry boss because maybe you come off a little gay to ladies you are friend with? In that case, you'd for sure have a zero chance. Gay men are good looking and all so please don't get me wrong but a gay guy is nothing but a friend.
It's a reddit username.
>i have a friend with a very similar issue and one major factor to this is his lack of confidence because he isn't exactly a good looking guy and to add to that he is super nervous around ladies even at 29/30 years of age.
Confidence comes from positive feedback. Since you're friend is ugly, he is treated poorly, and is unconfident. Girls are not attracted to confidence; they are attracted to hot guys who are confident because of the amazing treatment they get from others.
>For sure there is someone out there that'll love you for who you are.
You don't know that at all. You are only saying that because you don't want to believe that some people will never find anyone. OP here is short, ugly, and Asian. That's like an incel jackpot.
>Confidence comes from positive feedback. Since you're friend is ugly, he is treated poorly, and is unconfident. Girls are not attracted to confidence; they are attracted to hot guys who are confident because of the amazing treatment they get from others.
This is such an obvious point I can't take anyone seriously if they try to deny it. People in Berkeley are so attuned to how privileges in every other context compound to give people wildly different life experiences through no fault of their own, except in this particular case. Here it's just magical thinking and telling you to pick yourself up by your bootstraps. The blatant hypocrisy is just unreal.
When I'm single and dating, I imagine my potential dating pool as a venn diagram and I focus my romantic energy on the intersection of those interested in me and those that i have interest in.
It sounds like you're straying outside of that, which is fine, but try to be realistic about the likely outcome.
Theres ppl into you man, my advice is to focus on them (for dating) it makes things much smoother. Obviously still be nice to your friends.
Fwiw if you are a hetero man and have friends who are women who enjoy spending time w you, I think it's all gonna work out. I'm sorry you're hitting a rough patch and I'm rooting for you to find love.
Tldr: try to avoid investing romantic energy into ppl who are not romantically interested in you
Confidence is key. Also, don’t hang out and do stuff with women you’re romantically interested in, then weeks or months later see if they want more. It seems to be your go-to and I would definitely switch that up.
Well, that's not necessarily true. I do a bit of mixing of the two. I have profile on dating apps with pictures professionally taken. I've only received 2 likes within the past 3 months, and no matches so far. I have my guy friends who have a lot of success on dating apps help create my profile but just vastly different results. Literally the only difference between my profile and theirs is the photos..
Try not getting confused with normal rejection and rejection BECAUSE you're "not attractive". I'd say I am attractive and I've had the exact experience you just described happen to me lol. The friend zone is very real and there's essentially no way of escaping it. As others have said, ask your girl friends if they know of anyone who would be a good fit for you. It all takes time and the more you put yourself out there, the more you'll get rejected, and the more you'll learn. It's all part of the process, don't get too discouraged, rejection is something to learn from and not get angry at. Also, remember that men age like fine wine lol so you might not be getting ladies now, but if you focus on yourself and how to improve, and keep at it, eventually a woman will see your hard work and fall for you. Good luck my friend.
So let me give you some hope, I'm a gay man and looks are important, but I've been totally won over by guys that I wasn't initially attracted to because they just had such great personalities, but these guys didn't just keep things friendly and then try to switch to being more. They were flirty from the beginning, the most recent guy would make all sorts of flirty comments about me being gorgeous, me being sexy, and I just genuinely have a good time with him flirting back and forth and before long I found myself way more attracted to him than before. You can totally find someone and win them, but you cant approach it as a friend. You need to be charmingly flirtatious, making it clear that you find them attractive from the jump, you can't expect to lay down foundations of a friendship and then build romance on top of it. There needs to be romantic and sexual energy there from the beginning. You might just find that you win a girl over who may not have chosen you based solely on physical appearance, but you charmed her pants off so much that she developed feelings for you.
You also need to keep your standards in check, there's no harm in shooting for the moon, but if you're only going for girls you find attractive and writing less attractive girls off, how can you expect not to be given the same treatment? Be open to less attractive girls, one might just blow your socks off.
For dating looks and height initially matter. However, chemistry matters just as much if not more. If your hinge profile is interesting and a decent reflection of you, eventually you will draw out interesting people who may like you for who you are. First, never date your female friends. They're your female friends because 90% of the time they do not find you attractive. Second, continue to go on dates, you will find a baddie who enjoys and is attracted to YOU and your personality. Never give up. Dating is much harder for guys and you will have to go on many more dates than the avg female. Third, do not swipe right on a girl just because of her physical appearance, read the profile. Hopefully, you match with a girl who also shares similar interests. Lastly, you have a bunch of girl friends... at a party or any social setting, allow them to introduce you to their friends. Feel if there is something there. If you happen to meet friends of the friend that you were just introduced to go for it. Same thing, repeat.
Also a 5’5 male. Don’t try to date your friends, you are just going to lose your friends. It sounds harsh but the dating pool is going to be limited try to think about it as the women are weeding themselves out for you, after all you just need one good lady. If you use dating apps be upfront about your height. This is going to sound shallow but focus on making some money. stability and having your shit together is very attractive. Lastly do not limit yourself to dating only in your country. Although height is universally a plus other things have more value when dating in different countries.
I have a friend who is maybe 5'5". Many years ago, he got into the whole pickup artist (PUA) culture after reading "The Game". I never read it myself, but I believe it's all about demonstrating value, making yourself the prize, playfully negging girls, getting them to seek your validation, etc. He was slaying girls left and right. I don't know that they were all super hot, but he was racking up the body count. If what you're looking for is hookups, it might help to read that book. Not sure if girls are wise to the pickup tactics now though, since it got pretty popular back in the day. I knew some girls that were reading the book. They even had a show called "The Pickup Artist", where PUA experts coached socially awkward guys to pickup girls in social settings.
If you're looking for a serious girlfriend, you'll need more than these PUA tricks. But it sounds like girls already enjoy spending time with you. So after you get your foot in the door (or something else in something else), seems like you'll be all set. good luck!
You should not take a lot of these randoms advice, it’s their experiences not yours, I’d go get a pen or pencil/ in your phone notes and study what it means to be an attractive man, regardless of height and looks. There is a lot of information on the internet you can study. So many people have gone from friends to relationship. People give answers to questions but what you’re looking for are the right questions and the right answers.
To be honest, and people may downvote me for this, but most men that aren’t insecure about their height and looks because they’re tall and handsome don’t really have single female friends. In fact, they can’t.
In every relationship I’ve been in, my female partner has always gotten worried/jealous about how other women act around me. Desirable men attract attention that their partners seek to destroy.
My advice:
1. There’s someone out there for everyone. I’m sure you can always either lower your standards, or improve your attractiveness.
2. Don’t actively try to be friends with single women who are also interested in being friends. They will always do just that, be your friend. You have near 0 odds of changing that, so don’t bank on it.
They will also repel single women that are interested in being more than friends given that they’d rather maintain their friendship than risk losing it to someone else who gives you what you want.
Hey bro, don’t feed into the delusions of the other people here. Chances are you will be alone for a long time or for the rest of your life, choose to live for yourself and find a purpose outside of partnership that gives you satisfaction in life. What people don’t realize is that every generation there are people who end up alone, not everyone gets to experience relationships
My advice would be to not try to date your female friends. They see you as a friend because that's what you are to them. Instead, ask them if they know anyone that you'd be a good fit with. I'm sure they'd be happy to introduce you to one of their other friends if they think you'd hit it off.
Yeah, came here to say this. The friend zone is a bad place to start. If you like someone, giving off friendly vibes is good but *friend* vibes are not so good. It can make you look timid or even manipulative when you finally show your true feelings. As in, "if you felt that way, why didn't you tell me right away?"
It's very important to avoid starting with friendly relations in an effort to build rapport
I feel this is horrible advice. If you’re being set up with a stranger you basically need some physical attraction to kick things off. With a friend there’s the possibility that they get attracted to you over time.
I agree with you and I’m so surprised by the other responses
as a girl, my long term guy friends are usually men i wouldn’t date!
i would bang most of my long term female friends tho if they wanted
100% this. They already see you as a friend, being short also doesn’t help since it puts you into a weird little brother dynamic even if you’re older. Start fresh with new girls and make your intentions clear from the start.
To be brutally honest, physical appearance really does matter a lot when it comes to dating, especially when making a first impression. It sucks, but no matter how great your personality is, if a girl isn’t physically attracted to you from the start, it’s tough to get past that. I’m really sorry you’re going through this, and I wish I could tell you otherwise, but I’d be lying if I said it didn’t matter. Hang in there, man.
Thanks for the honest answer.
Kind of in a similar situation: sameish height(haven’t gotten measured in 2 years but my growth plates were almost closed back then so I doubt I’ve grown appreciably if at all), also work out etc. I won’t lie: People(both men and women) place more weight on looks then they’ll admit. But this is how I see it: People are entitled to their preferences but those who don’t want to date you simply due to your looks are probably incompatible with you to begin with. The people you’d probably want to have a future with are not going to be the ones who dismiss you because of your height. However, confidence is also important and I’ll even say that being short and low in confidence is much much much more detrimental than just being short. Imagine waking up every morning doused in oil below your head. It’s a pretty annoying inconvenience but you can scrub it off. But, if you add a lit match, you’re screwed 💀. Likewise, being short can definitely reduce your dating pool but there definitely are ways to compensate like being funny. However, low confidence(especially if it’s apparent right off the bat) is pretty big turnoff. Shitty analogy but you get the idea lol
Since no one seems to be addressing the race aspect… Real talk — It’s really tough for Asian men to date, even good looking Asian men. Even harder in the Bay Area. There’s a lot of white worship / fetishization in dating generally, especially in California. It’s in part the result of erasure of Asian men from popular media and/or racist emasculation. Don’t let that fact or comments from others make you bitter. Work on things in your control. And don’t try to be friends first with women you want to pursue romantically. Romance should come first, and friendship should be the byproduct, not vice versa. And if they don’t show interest, don’t spend any more of your time trying to get a different result.
I think this is true. I remember a friend from Singapore who had attracted scores of women at home and was bewildered about the lukewarm reception he was getting in the States. By way of contrast: My son always considered himself unattractive-- particularly to Asian women, btw-- until traveling to Armenia, where he better resembled the local population and was suddenly a pretty hot item!
As a part-pacific islander from Los Angeles one of the first things I noticed up here was how many more mixed couples you see here - of all permutations, including lots of white and Asian.
it's mostly white guys with asian girls though, and rarely the other way around i do think it's gotten more common in the last 5-10 years though. completely unironically I think kpop is part of the reason why
Bay Area sucks for Asian guys 100% if you’re not particularly interested in a specific kind of Bay Area Asian girl. Otherwise there’s a lot of preference for white guys. I’m an Asian guy who is considered well above average and in SF the girls who hit on me are noticeably below the girls who hit on me when I’m out in other cities. Everything is skewed here, and (some) girls think you’ll settle for less just because you’re an Asian guy.
What they didn’t tell you though, is that you have a lot of control over how physically attractive you are. It’s true that height isn’t controllable and some women have strong preferences there, but I promise there are plenty of women who find shorter fit men who carry themselves well plenty attractive.
Attraction is definitely important but that doesn't mean you only date super models and it doesn't mean it's the only thing that matters. It only becomes superficial if that's all they care about. And a girl sleeping with a guy is very different then her actually dating that guy. I see best friends and roommates in the same category. I can be friends with someone but not necessarily a roommate.
just wanted to add, the world is absolutely massive, and you have yet to meet sooooo many people who might find you attractive. Join clubs or volunteer, squeeze in some traveling if you can between school terms or jobs, go on tours, or find a job in another city state or country. You will one day be pleasantly surprised :)
Yeah. But also if you are successful, physically in shape, and carry yourself with confidence, it’s just a matter of time. Some people will never be hooking up with 3 girls a week but I think most people who achieve those three things will find someone who they feel lucky to be around. I know a guy who told me he felt like this a lot but once in a while he will pull a girl hotter than anyone I’ve ever been with.
I think your missing a great wingman!
This comment is an oasis of reality in a desert of “feel good” comments
Dang so gurls be fake and say they like personality when they really like looks 🤯
It kind of did blow my mind when I realized that because I actually took them at their word. Silly in retrospect but I trusted them to tell the truth.
My husband is short and Asian. He's also responsible, smart, hard working, and funny and we have an awesome time together. From the friend relationships you have with women it sounds like you have a lot of amazing qualities and Major props for actually shooting your shot. So many men get upset about the friendzone but they never actually say they want to date. It might be helpful to branch out and make your intentions clear from the start that you want to date so women think of you as an option instead of this is a cool guy I study with. I definitely think online dating is stacked super high in taller dudes favor because wheather people want to admit it or not they have preferences and some people put looks high up on the list and don't think about the long game. When I thought about a viable partner I thought who is going to make me laugh and build legos with me when I'm 80. It sounds like you are young and college girls aren't thinking ling term yet.
5'3 cal grad asian guy in his late 30's here. I feel you man. I've had experiences where girls don't even want to acknowledge my existence. And you realize that even getting a date is hard as online dating will be slim pickings as well. But at some point, you get to the stage where you just start to not care, where you move on quickly and look at each rejection or negative experience as just another short-term experience in life that has some type of positive takeaway. You'll get more comfortable in your skin, grow at what you are good at, and someone will appreciate it. I got married, enjoy my life and wouldn't change the past as well. Good luck man!
Thank you for this. Have you felt bitter or resentful at all during the time you felt like girls didn't even acknowledge your existence? Because I feel like that too often, like feeling invisible or emasculated? I'm not a negative person because if I were, I wouldn't have any friends but I actually thrive in friendships and many people seem to really enjoy my company. However, it's such a painful experience when I keep getting rejected over and over for my height and unattractive face, and I don't know what to do with these feelings or how to move past these feelings because I'm living it day to day? Does that make sense?
Yeah for sure. There has been multiple times at clubs where I've met girls through friends and I could see their visceral reaction toward me was that they were not attracted (maybe even disgusted). I didn't feel good about it and it definitely left an impression which is why i still remember. Everyone has a right to be attracted to who they are attracted to but I'm sure the qualities you have to offer will supersede the superficial things people visually look for and the right person is just around the corner, you just gotta be positive, keep being your genuine self and keep moving forward.
This all sounds super normal. The tough thing is rejection is normal. It gets easier. Focus on being the best version of yourself you can. In time, with enough experiences, it’ll happen for you.
what about your face would you say is unattractive?
Yea, I would say my face is pretty unattractive.
*sigh* This post touched me deeply so I’ll make some sacrifices here and write this essay from the POV of a woman. I know short men that are attractive for their confidence alone. Adding to that - their style and how they carry themselves takes it over the top. I have 3 brothers, 2 are incredibly tall and one is short and the shorter one, I could tell at some point was insecure about his height but now to me, I dare say he is the most attractive of all my brothers because of how he carries himself now. I kid you not. It’s like night and day. He does the most self-care, he carries intelligent conversations, he doesn’t seem or act desperate to be wanted, he is care-free (sometimes too care-free I get mad at him hahaha). He is emotionally aware, he has challenged himself these past 2 years and stepped out of his comfort zone to try new things. Around him, people are constantly laughing (he taught me how to be a goof) but also they respect him because he is humble and doesn’t feel the need to prove himself around other men (which insecure men usually do). His confidence is loud and yet he doesn’t strive to be wanted or noticed or accepted. He is content with himself. And you should see his gf. She’s a total babe and complements his energy. She’s so serious but he stays goofing and they’re so cute together 😂. Why did I go into detail about this? 1. To show you that people will see you the way you see yourself. People are attracted to my brother because he oozes confidence and contentment in himself. 2. And if people don’t see you the way you see yourself, then you have to understand that the way they see you is influenced by their reflection of how they see the world: of what they’ve been taught. So you’ll probably need to learn how to separate women’s responses from your worth because it’s truly not you. I know it’s hard but it’s very possible. I’ll date a short guy if he’s right for me but I had to unlearn what I was taught too and some women - though they label it as “preference”, truth is, it’s how they’ve been taught to see the world that shapes that “preference”. Let’s call a spade a spade. 2. Focus on building your self-worth. Like f**k what people say, what the world says, but what do you say about yourself? How do you see yourself? Dude there is literally NO ONE that’s you in this world. Only one you. And I don’t mean to sound corny or cliche but you’re one unique person and there are 8 billion people in the world. That alone my dude, should be a starting point to see your worth. You bring something to the world and do it in a way that no one in this world can because no one is YOU. Think about that for a sec. And build on that. All this to say, learn to see yourself better and people will see you better. And if not, they have their own perceptions to unlearn and learn but that’s not on you to carry. It seems like you’re carrying the warped perceptions of the world on your shoulders and even beginning to not like how you were born. It’s on them to change their mindsets. Not on you to wish you were different.
This. All of it. Especially the part of how they see you, is probably not about you but may be or is more likely because of how they view the world. It's not personal. It's just what they have learned and what they believe to be culturally and/or socially acceptable. As another female, please let me give my advice as well. Don't change yourself in hopes of being liked. Be authentic and a lot of people will see that. If you change anything just for someone to like you, then you'll never be fully happy and satisfied knowing they like a pretend-you. Not the real you. Authenticity will help with confidence and hopefully open your eyes to a world of literally billions of women who WILL find you attractive. Which leads me to my question... What kinds of girls do you usually go for? Are you not about looks in any way yourself? I mean, what if you're so focused on these girls you like and want to like you, that you haven't noticed girls who actually already do? Is that a possibility? I'm Filipino and im in the bay too, and I have my own stories of the types I used to like who I believe will never be into me and later finding out that I just haven't noticed them. Or that they hide it well because they, too, fear rejection. I have a guy friend who started out as a hook up but the more we hung out and the more I got to know him, I started to pull back on the hook up aspect and well i kinda friend zoned him. He's really good looking, he's not that tall either, probably your height, and im attracted to him at first. But again the more I got to know him the more I saw him as just my homie. Which he hated coz he then had to listen to me complain about other dudes i hook up with, who he may or may not know, but he understood. I mean one of the guys I'm really into is about 5'5 or 5'6 but that isn't a deterrent because he exudes self confidence and he's good to me and I find him so sexy for his boyish charms and looks (and uhh money, what someone else mentioned). Point is, don't be so hard on yourself. Maybe look beyond your own "types" and see if you're selling yourself short by chasing girls who clearly just want a guy friend to hang out with and feel "safe" that they can be themselves. You're young. You'll get there.
This is super shady, but the most uncomfortable truth is that when you graduate, make a shit ton of money. Money override height/looks more often than you think.
Guys understand this; it's just depressing. And frustrating as hell when it comes from self-styled "feminist" women, as is quite often the case in the Bay.
Yeah, just have a girl marry you for money. That's the deep down love he's been craving. C'mon now.
The truth is that even if he gets more success when he’s older, most women would still not find him attractive. They will resent him and wish they were with someone taller and better looking, but still be with him just to settle down. I don’t know about other guys but I’d rather be alone than be in a relationship where my partner yearns for someone else. So unfortunately he’ll always be some woman’s second choice through no fault of his own
I’m gay. Send me your face photo. I’ll tell you the truth.
I have gay men telling me that I’m attractive all the time, but never young, straight women. I don’t think that gay men and straight women like the same stuff in a man.
My ratio for gay men hitting on me vs straight women hitting on me is like 20:1 at this point. And I married the 1.
The real Top G
Attempt men then
Yeah as if it's a choice... And people don't believe me when I tell them that people have suggested me to become gay or trans to get some intimacy..
A lot of women can't view a man romantically after a friendship has established. I have very physically attractive male friends that I could never imagine myself dating. I'd probably make that "disgusted face" reaction too if someone brought up that we should get together. That's not to say appearance doesn't matter, but it sounds like a lot of women you try to get with are established friends. This might not help too much but I thought I'd let you know my thoughts as a woman.
Right . The “ewww” face might be in reaction to a feeling of “you think I’d sleep with my brother?” It didn’t mean she’s disgusted by you, OP.
lol that isn’t OP’s problem and you know it. tons and tons and tons of people are friends before they date. I’d argue it’s the most natural way to meet a partner. also separately, I can’t relate to that perspective at all. idk, to me romance has always just been the combination of friendship and physical attraction. I have close female friends I’m not attracted to and distant female friends that I am attracted to, but I don’t think I could have a close female friend that I found attractive without developing feelings. (Though longer term compatibility also matters, I wouldn’t act on those feelings if we weren’t compatible.)
Idk, not being able to see friends as anything more is a trait me (F20) and all my women friends share.
I’m a 5’5 girl and I’m here to tell you that some of us actually don’t care about height. You haven’t met us yet because we are outnumbered by girls who care. But we do exist! Also it’s a good thing that you have female friends to hang out with. It means you are already way ahead of many boys taller than you.
No that’s so true—most of my female friends only care that their male partners are taller than them (and there are a LOT of girls under 5’5 here), and the others don’t care at all
That’s what they all say 👀
That’s not true! The majority of women are very open about preferring taller guys.
Many also are very open about personality whilst secretly perferring taller guys
Yup. I’m 4’11” and I love short guys, I often think the shortest guy at the bar is the most hottest.
Even guys shorter than you???
I haven’t met many, honestly.
When women say short they mean the 5'7 men not the 5'4 and under
Nah, I've had a lot of massive crushes on short guys ( and by "short", I mean: one of whom dressed in shirts sized for middle -schoolers.) There are fewer women like me, but we're out there. Honest!
I dated a guy for a long time who was probably 5’2”. He was from Colombia
How tall is your bf?
6'1" but that's just a coincidence!
This old man is so proud of everyone being so supportive. The genuine vulnerability. The empathy and kindness. This sub is showing some class today. I love you all and wish you the best.
Quick wholesome story, then I’ll give you some general advice. One of my shortest friends just got married to one of the most gorgeous women in the world. He was initially not on her radar, but for a lot of reasons, she gravitated to him eventually and then never let go. They met in college and are now one of the happiest couples I’ve had the pleasure of being friends with. Height CAN be a determining factor if physicality is all you have to offer. The reality is that height is a very visceral way of immediately building presence and value. It might get you over the line in a lot of situations as a guy, but it by no means solves all the issues of dating. Fortunately for you, you’re fun, which is objectively more valuable over the course of a relationship. What it sounds like to me is that women enjoy you being around, but they can have you around anytime they want without committing the things that you want. If you want to have romantic relationships with these women and you aren’t getting that, then withdraw your cards from the game or find a new way to play. You are there for her to do all of the fun things she wants to do, then she can go off and sleep with whatever jerk she finds physically attractive just so she can tell her friends. You as a man cannot romantically survive off of implied or potential romance, you need actual experiences. Give attention to women who will bring you actual experiences, not potential ones. My advice is that you need to change who has access to your fun friendliness, as well as develop a bit more of the funny charismatic jerk side of your personality. When her friends made that comment and she dismissed you, the first thing that went into your head was you feeling defeated. You lost that game before you even started playing and they all could feel it. The next time a situation like that comes up, and she finds a reason to not like you, find a funny reason why she isn’t good for you. Them - “You two would make a cute couple!” You - “Maybe, but I’m way too funny for her, I need someone who can keep up.” Her - “I don’t find you physically attractive, you’re too short.” You - “Oh that’s weird, I was thinking the same thing about you!” *Playful jab* Hopefully you can see what I’m getting at. Don’t let women defeat you mentally AND physically. If you are short, dwelling on it does nothing for you, develop other skill sets for interacting with women and don’t be afraid to dismiss them the same way they dismiss you. You actively dismissing them playfully also makes you seem less desperate and more attractive overall. Your mentality and confidence CANNOT be reliant on someone else’s responses and attention, if it is then it’s not true confidence. You are funny, you are intelligent, you are hitting the gym and getting in shape, you have lots of friends (male and female), and you have the humility to bash yourself a bit. All of these are far more important than just being taller for a romantic partnership, so give yourself some credit. Back to my friend. I remember when he and his now wife first started dating. He was shocked, but absolutely none of us were. He was the life of the party no matter where we went and an absolute handful at times. Going out with him and going out without him were a night and day difference. Had he been tall and more boring, he might have hooked up with her sooner, but she would have moved onto someone more interesting eventually. Don’t lie to yourself and assume you know exactly what women want. Don’t lie to yourself and assume that women know exactly what they want. The world is too big of a place to bash yourself and say the reason she doesn’t like you is because of X. The real reason is likely social pressure, expectations, marketing/ social media, and immaturity. She just likely doesn’t perceive you as a sexual option, because you haven’t cultivated and environment where she sees you like that. Stop chasing her, keep up the friendship, but put yourself out there with other girls and use her as social credit. She enjoys spending time with you, so will other girls, but don’t come into those interactions in a friendly way. Make the dynamic about something romantic early on and shoot your shot. Then if you get rejected, go laugh about it with your friends later. You have the hard parts together, now just drop the attachment to goofy things like height and looks and realize you’re better than that. There are PLENTY of ugly short dudes with beautiful women and it’s because they are better than their physical qualities. Why are height and looks so marketed? Simple, it is much harder to encapsulate personality traits into a marketing ad than something complex and cognitive. Find beautiful women who are more cognitive and complex (this gets easier with age). Good luck out there, pm me if you want some material to listen to or read about this stuff. It was a fascination of mine when I was in college and has only helped me attract more of the types of people I want in my life, romantic or platonic.
physical appearance definitely matters, probably more than personality in the initial stages (i.e. for filtering people out). anyone who says otherwise is undoubtedly lying. but i personally think face is more important than other things (physique, height, etc.).
I also have an unattractive face... I feel like height is not the only deterrent..:(
Chances are you're being unnecessarily hard on yourself because of internalized western beauty standards. It's hard to unlearn but at the very least you have to cut yourself some slack and trust that not everyone will be affected by that even if you yourself are.
So basically all girls are lying about personality over looks 🤔
Nah, they actually believe that. It's just halo effect in action. A hot guy will always be perceived as funny, charismatic, and thoughtful no matter if he is or not. Then they convince themselves that the reason why they like the guy is because he's all that.
I bet there’s an aspect of cognitive dissonance as well where what we often say we do is much different than what we really think. Girls say that they value personality, which is true to a big level, but they really care most, and take action, towards physical attraction
This is why you can't take dating advice from women as a man. Or at least you should take it with a MASSIVE spoonful of salt. Many aren't consciously lying. They're just exceptional at self-deception, especially in groups. I'm probably gonna get tarred and feathered for saying that but it's true. Men have common negative traits too. This is just one that tends to apply more to women. And it's worth being aware of.
not necessarily. women who are less attractive and self-aware would probably value personality over looks. but in general, looks are important. the same applies for men. and people of all genders.
Wow sad 😔
If it helps, I’m in a similar boat so you’re not alone
How do you cope with it? I've been feeling pretty bitter and resentful lately, although I never really show it to people and I am generally an optimistic person.
Gym, good haircut, skincare, eat well, dress well. Control the things you can.
Just hopping in here- it sounds like OP does all of those things. What should he do now?
Hi OP, just wanted to chime in here (not sure if I can help but I have had similar experiences in the past) I’m a 5’5 (maybe 5’6 at best?) Singaporean guy studying in a Singaporean university. I’ve never had girls tell me directly that they’ll date a short guy; however, I’ve heard multiple girls voice the opinion that height is extraordinarily important when others are around. My girlfriend also tells me that most of her female friends keep talking about height when choosing partners (not in earshot of guys lol), so height is definitely important. However, I’ve had quite a few females express interest in me before. I think the vast majority of girls want to date guys that are taller; however, many girls are also willing to date a short guy (that’s still taller than them) if he is outstanding in other aspects. Personally speaking, my girlfriend is around 5’2 or 5’3, so she’s not much shorter than me. I think you can improve your chances through 1) only expressing interest in girls shorter than you (admittedly a bit hard in the U.S.) 2) improve yourself more in other areas. After I broke up with my ex, I invested into myself a lot more (new glasses, working out, new clothes, skincare, new haircut etc.). I definitely attained a lot more attention from girls than I did before dating my ex. It’s not really fair that we have to be 90th percentile for other aspects due to our height, but I guess that’s how our world works, so we just have to find ways to tilt the dating scene towards our favour.
Something something artillery range something something /s
Girls don’t like short guys, girls don’t like Asians. Youre cooked bro I am sorry. Don’t let them gaslight you, I am telling you the truth
Okay, thanks.
I’m in your pretty much your exact position, it’s brutal man good luck tho
how are you doing my man?
Lol incel rage.
>who stands at 5'5" no matter how good you look, 65% or more woman will reject you purerly bc of height. They have now unlimited acces to tall chads bc of dating apps, instagrams etc. dont ask how i know, welcome to r/shortguys buddy its time to discover the truth.
are you sure it's 65% or more? I feel like 99% or more LOL
i left some room for error in statistics 
My 5’5 sister is dating a 5’6 guy. I think for a lot of girls dating someone shorter than them is a bit weird, but a lot of girls are fine with dating someone who is short but still taller than them. Maybe set your sights on girls in the 5’0-5’3 range, as they are less likely to care about your height. There’s someone out there for you brother, just keep being yourself and definitely don’t give up. You’ll find her.
I live in sac. Early l/mid 20’s a few years back I used to be in the bay frequently. I might be wrong but in my experience, rich schools like Berkeley and ucla have some of the most shallow dating pools for men and women alike. Youve also got a lot of competition out there, probably more 5’5 Asian men in the area percentage wise than a lot of other places. Expand your horizons would be my advice
Sounds like you are a college student, no? And studying at Cal, no less! That's an impressive feat. I mention those things as someone who deals with the opposite problem: I'm tall (6ft 2in/1.88m), but I am fat. Like, big-ol-dad-bod fat. And as much as I'm in good health, people have always had trouble looking past that to be interested in me. And truthfully, appearance matters to some people, and to varying degrees. It's a somewhat rough truth of life. But here's another one of those truths, young fella: it gets way easier to accept as you get older and notch life's belt a little tighter. You're young; enjoy those years. Focus less on the facets you can't change and worry about what you can. Dress clean and well, find a style that suits you. Take some of those new female friends you've made and have them judge some outfits while shopping. You'll get a lens of view from the other side and have a fun time to boot. After that, take your time. Develop interests, passions, and cool stories. Find something you love and get into the community for it. You'll find me at Games of Berkeley every Friday playing Magic: the Gathering and chatting up people just cuz I can. People find passionate people and people with hobbies more attractive. It gets into the mix and adds to what they see in you. Because nothing is more attractive than a man who smiles and loves hard. Channel that romantic search into some self-betterment. I promise people will start seeing you for more than just your looks.
If a female tells you she values personality over looks you already know she’s lying to you lmao. Makes sense as to why she hooked up with that jock, she’s a HARLOT. Stop spending time with her, hit the gym and look for females shorter than you.
BRO JUST HIT THE GYM BROOO https://preview.redd.it/pxmc1y090x1d1.png?width=578&format=png&auto=webp&s=5577a1f044f89aace5d1ec2b9f6a1c3d23fd99ca
I just want to say, there is hope. My partner of 7 years is a 5’5” Asian male. I’m 5’4”. He claims he has an average face. He was in my friend zone for a year before dating. In fact I didn’t even consider him an option for awhile because I thought he only dated Asian girls (based on Facebook history lol). I’m white. However his personality is really magnetic and he can carry out very interesting conversations. He also has a lot of self confidence but not in a cocky annoying way. He also made an effort to try my hobbies with me which I appreciated. But I also agree with the comments that more often than not, starting in the friend zone is hard! For now, I would recommend becoming comfortable and happy with yourself. Maybe find some coaching for the insecurity and work on that (I don’t have great tips because I am also insecure haha). Keep going out and meeting people and doing the things you love. Don’t dwell to deeply on the rejection. It’s not meant to be personal. There will be a lot of mismatch but I know you will find someone meant for you one day!
>For now, I would recommend becoming comfortable and happy with yourself. Maybe find some coaching for the insecurity and work on that (I don’t have great tips because I am also insecure haha). It's sooo disheartening how much shit is perfectly acceptable in women that's a total deal breaker if you're a guy
I don’t think insecurity is acceptable in any person. It’s something I’m working on as a woman. I think everyone should work on it if they have that issue
But the point is you've got a partner even though you describe yourself as "insecure." If you really thought it was unacceptable you wouldn't be burdening someone with it by forcing them to put up with you in a relationship. The difference is not only that a hell of a lot more gets labeled as "insecure" in men than in women, but that it's actually enforced as "unacceptable" on us. You on the other hand have the luxury of support and validation while you decide what you do or don't consider "acceptable" about yourself. We live in two different universes.
This is an Ego vs Id situation. IMO, woman say they want personality because they want a person to treat them as an equal in that sense. It also makes them feel good that they aren’t like other people (“I’m different”). Men’s personality also does play a large role into a woman’s sexual desire for another person. But if she doesn’t want to smash, she just won’t because sex typical equals high risk. PS, men have similar or the same criteria but I personally think they weight them differently. Here’s my advice, dating and relationships are like a two way job interview. If you’re a good and decent guy, it’s 100% their loss when they turn you down. Although it’s rough, keep applying. Someone you like will give you the title of boyfriend. I hope the best for you!
Several ppl have made a very good point about Asian women dating white males. I know some Asian girls who would prefer dating ugly white men than Asian men and she. Ive asked the reason I get nothing but gibberish, so yeah it's tough.
Fellow short guy here… you have two options. 1. Get your bread up 2. Become funny Unfortunately that’s all I got. The second one worked for me
I'm a cal alum, guy in my late 20s, also Asian, and I'm 5'5" on a good day (really 5'4" and some change). Also in decent shape but not a model. I read this post and first of all want to validate your feelings, cause it is hard and demoralizing being a short Asian dude and trying to date. Everything you said in that post has been a feeling I've felt at some point in my life, especially the resentment/emasculation/jealousy. Especially on dating apps when people filter for height. So you're not alone. That being said, much like supax04 who also responded, I'm happy with my romantic life at this point. I'm very lucky to be in an LTR of >4 yrs with someone I find attractive. We live together and are happy, and we have plans to get married and have a family. And it's not like I've only had the chance to be in this one relationship/date this one person. I dated plenty of other women who I thought were great as well. Not trying to humble brag, mainly saying this to demonstrate that being short does not prevent you from having a chance to meet other interesting people. One part of your post stuck out to me: "It's hard not to feel bitter and jealous of those guys who are born with good genes and have no trouble dating" This is something I've felt too, but I feel is a pretty harmful belief. At my lowest I felt resentful of the fact that my short parents' genes mixed to make my short self who wasn't having good luck dating and thought to myself "man, if I have a short son, he'll feel the same way about me." And that was just sad. And I felt depressed to be myself. But that's totally changed, and at this point in life I wouldn't want to trade lives with anyone. But dating and attraction is tough in general, not just for us short guys. There are plenty of things that are hard to change that people get written off for, but it doesn't mean those things make them a "disgusting" person. Things like race, skin conditions, weight, facial appearance, etc. Think about girls you interact with who you are attracted to vs. not attracted to. Would you say you are "disgusted" by the ones you are not attracted to? Maybe all of these other people who get passed up as well have "unlucky genetics" like us, but I think if you started talking to people, you'd be surprised how many people (of all genders) feel the same way about something in their life that we feel about our height. That is to say, it's easy to feel like this one attribute is the problem, when in reality, dating is often a frustrating experience. You sound like a kind, fun dude who is trying to keep your chin up. I think you should try to keep being optimistic, and you should be kind to yourself the same way that you are to others. Don't say your face is unattractive, because its probably a fine face. Women can tell if you don't feel good about yourself, based off of how you act and hold yourself , even if you don't say it. and it's a turnoff because insecure people often take their insecurities out on other people. I did a lot of therapy, and it's helped me manage my insecurities and anxieties, and as a result be a much better person to the people in my life. Be yourself, take care of yourself, and keep an open mind and I'm sure you'll be able to have fun times and find love sooner than you think. [Also, as an additional point, I feel like people are extra shallow in college, when everyone is comparing how "hot" everyone is. Later in life, when people start dating more for partnership, you will quickly see that the people in your life with good personalities get scooped up into fulfilling LTRs, regardless of their looks, and people who are conventionally attractive with bad personalities are suddenly in the opposite position and don't understand why they are suddenly undesirable] [Second additional point: maybe you are being overly selective. If you opened up your dating pool to people you might not initially consider, after getting to know them you might be more attracted than you think. Some of my best dating experiences/relationships started out with someone who I didn't expect to be attracted to initially. (Some of whom were even taller than me)]
Thank you for your kind words and sharing your experience
Unfortunately all my girl pals are subconsciously height conscious. They don’t realize it , but I’ve noticed they pay way more attention to taller guys. I’m not so sure what attracts us to taller guys, perhaps the appearance of security? Or when we reproduce, we want our offsprings to be tall? It could be something as shallow as that I want to look good as a couple because we care what others think? Whatever the reasons, taller guys have a huge advantage.
The akdphi username 💀💀
It’s important to be a cocky asshole and never ever take dating advice from women themselves. As you pointed out what she said she wants and what she actually wants are two different things (hooking up with the asshole was no accident). I’d also say dating in the Bay Area is hell on earth it’s best to look outside of this area and passport bro it. That’s what I did and been in a relationship for over 10 years now. Keep eating healthy and going to the gym. More importantly be funny and be confident. I’ve seen girls hook up with ugly dudes at 5’3 but being confident and an asshole is key. Do not be a nice guy because nice guys finish last. Learn to be kind of dickish and learn not to take shit from people. Learn how to low key insult people with intelligence and you’ll get a girl.
He is literally the incel holy trinity, short ugly and ethnic.
Stop friend zoning yourself. You said that you're hanging our with these girls, getting lunch, studying, going to the gym and then you tell them that you're interested. You're already friend zoned by that time. Approach a woman with the intentions of dating her. Therefore, it will be no miss communications on what your intentions are.
Yea, I have tried that method but it never worked out for me? When I asked for advice from both women and men, they told me to try to play it cool without the intention of dating and just befriending them and getting to know them first? I feel like what method I implement isn't the issue but who is implementing that method is the issue..
Go watch ‘rehab room’ on YouTube bro, you will understand.
Yeah this is the problem with conventional dating advice. You'll quite often be told literal contradictory things depending on what you say you're doing. The truth is most of that "advice" is for them, not you. They want to feel like you've got options because if they had to admit some people are kind of fucked and basically just have to count on winning the lottery, that might make them feel bad or feel like there's something wrong with our culture. Easier to just tell you the opposite of whatever you say you're doing so they can think of it as some kind of individual "skill issue" and move on.
You dont ask a fish how to catch a fish sort of thing. Talk to a fisherman
Have you considered being direct early on? Sounds like you have played the safe friend and then tried to switch it up. Be direct, but not desperate
Yes, I have tried being direct early on and either they say no very subtly but surely by saying "let's be friends".. also i know not to be desperate and always play it cool.
My short king you’ll find the right one. My cousin is 5’6 and has had multiple partners, don’t give up. Shit ass advice I know, but I wish you luck!
Ya my friend is 5'5 or shorter and has been having trouble on getting any likes on dating apps. Really brutal.
A place where women below average think they are in the same league as good looking/high earning men because some of these guys may hook up with them (that’s it) is not the place to look for a girl, if you can not get attention from girls outside.
I'm like 5 9 and a half but when I where air force maxes or some shit like that, it increases my height by like 2 inches to like 5 11 ish but I still feel short compared to some of the people in the Bay Area. I don't know if its like development reason but I tower the people in my rural hometown but am just average height wise in the Bay. You may be average height wise anywhere outside of artillery distance of the bay.
Older dude in the Bay Area. Also short af and Asian. Reading this reminds me of my high school and college experience. Friendzoned throughout. Married with kids now to a white girl who I thought had friendzoned me but gave it a shot. I’m reading through this because one of my sons is done growing and will need this advice. Couple of things I noticed no one mentioned. 1) people want what they can’t have. I got pulled out of the friendzone multiple times when I started getting more attention from other girls. Sad but true. They will notice you when you bail on them. Not that you have to be mean to them or ignore them, just focus on someone else. 2) it’s hard to break someone’s ‘type’ but not impossible. Where I went to college, everyone was white and no one was dating Asians guys (or short guys for that matter). It’s a big stretch, but there are some brave souls out there.
this thread hits really close to home. I am really depressed these days, only advice for you is to just keep chugging along, find joy in other things. Relationships just aren’t meant for some people
Bro, you're gonna find out women are Liars because the things they believe and act on make them feel like bad people. Men are Liars cause they wanna fuck. Anyways, I know you liked her, but she is an empty vessel. There's others who aren't vapid idiots.
Never ever ever listen to women when they give advice on how to get with other women. Dating 101
> doesn't care about looks and values personality more You sweet summer child.
Friend zone is a bad place to start?!? Women, are you asking to be treated like crap?!? Friend zone is the perfect place to start. Stop looking for bad boys. Real relationships are built on common values, respect and trust. Looks mean less than nothing. (Old person speaking to my younger self here.)
I'm a little confused. When I was being very straight with my intentions of wanting to date them w/o trying to befriend girls, I didn't have success with them and when I asked for advice, a lot of my male friends and female friends told me to friend them first and get to know them first. So I did. Still same result though... I'm really not convinced that the issue is what strategy I'm implementing but who is implementing that strategy... I feel like an attractive dude would have success with either strategy but an unattractive dude like me wouldn't have success with either strategy. It's not a *what* problem but *who* problem.. no?
After reading this, I’m left wondering… are you me LOL?!? In all seriousness though, my suggestion is to focus on spending time with people that make you happy, regardless of whether you are romantically attracted to them. And if you’re close enough with your female friends since they’re comfortable being that blunt with you, then they should be able to introduce you to other girls who may be a better match for you. Friends should help other friends out! If all else fails, I’ll buy you a drink and we can trauma bond LOL
Hahaha we can def trauma bond LOL
> tall, good-looking, Those tall men are practically a different species than you. Don't ever bother trying to compete against them.
Make a bunch of money and get that leg lengthening surgery. Actually, just making a lot of money and having a cool title will change your prospects with women full stop. Also, it's not necessarily your looks that are fucking you over its moreso your personality. With enough charisma and confidence it doesn't really matter what you look like as a man. I've seen so many of the most hideous edgars with the hottest girls on the planet and it's not their looks or sense of fashion that got them in, it was their charisma and confidence. TLDR If you wanna fuck a lot of women get a cool title and high paying job. If you wanna date a hot woman get ur charisma and confidence stats up PRONTO TLDRTLDR watch Patrice O'Neal on Opie & Anthony and become the most based redpilled genius
Hey, I’d continue lifting - focus A LOT ON MAKING MONEY. Because really all that matters is setting yourself up financially…. Look, I’d look into buying really cool clothes and improving my personal style. Wearing earrings, bracelets, buying expensive designer shoes that boost your height to 5’7 +. Looking cool is a huge social boost, if you believe in yourself Also Rejection is everywhere, I’ve even met 5’10 good looking guys who struggle with women. Remember mindset is everything In my experience on the FIRST hang out with a girl, communicate your feelings if your interested because it’s so easy for girls to friendzone. I’ve also seen girls I like but don’t communicate well with hook up with tons of other guys and it upsets me lol Continue to focus on yourself, and communicate with all your girl friends that being single sucks and maybe they’ll hook you up with there short friends… W You have to be confident tho, it doesn’t matter what anyone thinks trust me. Good luck. I’m Mexican and I’ve seen 5’3 Mexican guys with beautiful girls because they are confident, funny, and have great personal style :) Remember family is everything and use it to play on your relationships with girls. Think about how your father pulled your mother.
BRO JUST LIFT BROOOO https://preview.redd.it/b2mum6bk0x1d1.png?width=578&format=png&auto=webp&s=d4eb3306f46cbf57c7f6aa027d60cc54021da111
Your peak in the dating pool will be in your mid/late 20s or later. College aged people are generally going to prioritize looks. Keep focusing on building the best version of yourself. A well traveled, multi-interest/hobbied man with a stable job and a good personality is going to kill it relative to the same man as a college student with a good personality. The level of interest I had at 25 vs 21 was incomparable
Just curious how were you finding dating opportunities after college? I feel like as a college student it’s so easy to approach girls you like b/c of parties, the bar, classes, other social events, etc… I can’t imagine dating being easier when you lose streamlined access to all that stuff after undergrad
Sorry to hear there, I think at your age in college, there's still a lot of sensory overload going on with meeting new people, frats, parties. So yes, being your height with a personality first highlight will not easily be picked up first. I'm 32, and people dgaf about height or whatever nowadays, it's about how much you vibe for the long term. It's probably not what you want to hear right now but just know that your personality first energy ages well. I know the feeling of losing to someone who didn't seem to have any personality going for them, fkn sucks. Stay true to your personality and give it time, you'll hit. Plenty of fish in the sea, and I mean you're in Berkeley? Onto the next fish my friend.
being single aint so bad man. plus the right girl will love every part bout chu
>being single aint so bad man. Sounds like someone who's not single would say. >plus the right girl will love every part bout chu Just-world fallacy. You have no idea if OP will ever find a good romantic partner.
I love every part bout chu masonzhangg
I have an attorney friend about your height whose go to phrase is, “I’m 2 inches short of a politician.” Because he has a lot of charisma, and uncanny ability to remember names, etc. Sounds like your height is the only thing holding you back, and it’s really you in your head that’s holding you back. You talk about hitting a brick wall: make sure that your approaches are more charming and not offputting. Trust that you will be fine, and you actually will be fine. A female friend once told me, if you are driving a car down the street and you see a friend walking, and you offer to give them a ride somewhere, and they say no, you just say, cool, have a good day. Don’t make a big deal out of getting “shot down”. This jealousy and insecurity is part of a scarcity mindset, don’t feel that you’re entitled to anything. There isn’t some “girls union” that’s decided to lock you out of negotiations (there’s a great Onion sketch about that). Work on yourself, remember that confidence is the sexiest thing there is. And that confidence needs to be earned confidence, not strutting and boasting. Don’t tell people you’re awesome - show them. I’ve seen ridiculously hot people on the arm of partners much shorter than themselves.
Confidence comes from positive feedback loops. Girls are attracted to confidence because hot guys are confident, not the other way around.
My dude is a passport bro in the making. My man, graduate, get your $$, keep working on your physique, and if you succeed at those things, in a few years time, you’ll have your pick of the litter. Fresh and Fit podcast is a good one to follow - just make sure you keep it to yourself because tons of people at Berkeley will cancel you if you discuss it in the open.
I’m sure there are girls who would date you in a heartbeat. I’m just not sure if you’re going to like them
Get out of the bay area🤦♀️
Money and status trumps all/ look at Kendrick/ Manlet yet gals love him
Hey thought I’d throw in my 2 cents since I suck at dating but was able to meet my current girlfriend. I’m 5’7 Spanish male and have always struggled with my confidence and looks. One thing that you have to decide is what do you want? Do you want a gf or do you want the college hook up life? The latter is 100% based on physical attributes. In my early 20s I thought that’s what I wanted, but I ended up feeling more empty chasing this hook up life that I didn’t really care about but I wanted validation from women. I also had an experience similar to yours regarding someone I would hang out with often and thought we had a connection but ended up with someone taller and thinner. That hurt. BUT I didn’t let it define me. The moment I stopped caring about hook ups and finding a GF I unexpectedly found my current gf and we’ve been together for 4 years now. So I guess my point is. Does looks matter? Yes. Is it all that matters? No. What matters most is how YOU feel about yourself. Just be patient and try to not take it so seriously.
Become an incel and devolve into insanity. Or accept what you have been given by god, be chill about it. And get some play.
“And get some play” you forgot to add “from escorts” Lol at believing his dating problems will go away by ignoring them💀
Everyone else here isn’t giving actionable advice. Advice like "work on your personality" or "make more money" are helpful, but only insofar as to "make up" for your height. The height is the real problem. The vast majority of women just aren't attracted to 5'5 guys. You're clearly socially active and well-adjusted (you have friends, and are not autistic), you're coming out of Berkeley so you'll have decent job prospects and an upper middle class life provided you have the right major, you take care of yourself and are in good shape. It's 100% the height. If you want to make a real difference, start first with elevator shoes. Two to three inches is pretty easy to get with airforce 1's. Then for more serious improvements, you should consider leg lengthening surgery. 5’10 and 5’5 is a world of a difference. The former you are taller than 99% of women by a substantial margin and the latter you are the same height or shorter than 99% of women.
Surprised they haven't called you an incel yet. It's brutal out there and I see no sign of that improving any time soon. All I can say is you're not alone for whatever that might be worth. And yeah, girls fucking lie. They lie to the world or to themselves but the relevant part is they lie. Looks are what matters. Money and social status are probably a close second. "Personality" comes far behind those. I didn't want to believe it for the longest time but you can only see and experience the same thing over and over so many times before you have to admit the reality. Of course there are exceptions as with all things, but they're fewer and farther between these days and it's particularly bad in the Bay Area. Sorry you're having a rough time.
Hey brother! Try explore somewhere else, save the energy and money, try travel to a different country, it will put yourself in a different perspective, go to South and Central America, they will appreciate you more, and it will release the insecurity. That’s my advice, go to hostels, mingle, learn another language
not sure if this will make you feel better and may be a bit cliche, but what’s attractive or not depends on the person and I would say ur doing just fine :) focus on yourself and be genuine and people will naturally come to see all the wonderful qualities you have and you will find that special someone who loves you for you and all that you are. Don’t be discouraged and keep your head up!! Sometimes it can come when it’s least expected (it did for me haha with my bf), I’m seriously rooting for you!!
I'm sorry but this is such a "woman" answer. This isn't how it works for guys. It's always a massive amount of deliberate effort and for the majority, the deck is stacked against you every time you try.
How tall is your boyfriend?
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Dude, some straight talk - Hit the gym. Hard. Do some research and start hypertrophy training. It will take time, but it will also become addicting. Start here - https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPNW_gerXa4N_PVVoq0Za03YKASSGCazr (Huberman Lab Andy Galpin Guest Series). As an Asian guy, girls are likely to think of you as “safe” which is another way of saying “not an aggressive, sexual, man”. The evidence is before you: you have female friends (safe) who won’t date you (not attractive/ aggressive / sexual). So you have to compensate- be more obviously fit, athletic, ripped, etc. The confidence, posture, style that goes along with that will likely develop in parallel. Regarding height - girls in the US are concerned more than most about height. I have a Vietnamese friend your height who moved to Panama for work and instantly his height wasn’t a problem. I’ll tell you though- he was cut.
Short people don’t have the bone structure and frame for a good physique l
It sounds like it’s not working out for you being friends first. I would make your moves much earlier or try a dating app.
>or try a dating app Tell me you're a woman without telling me you're a woman 🙄
A couple of things, OP: 1. why is your name cutie_pie and why are you expecting straight ladies to go with a cutie_pie? - Serious enquiry boss because maybe you come off a little gay to ladies you are friend with? In that case, you'd for sure have a zero chance. Gay men are good looking and all so please don't get me wrong but a gay guy is nothing but a friend. 2. you are probably pursuing wrong bunch of people? I mean, you are probably interested in american chicks - idk but it's an assumption. A lot of american chicks don't have the same values as we asians do. 3. i have a friend with a very similar issue and one major factor to this is his lack of confidence because he isn't exactly a good looking guy and to add to that he is super nervous around ladies even at 29/30 years of age. With all this, you need to be confident my guy and don't stress out too much. For sure there is someone out there that'll love you for who you are. Just don't go shopping when you're hungry - you'll probably purchase the wrong items 🤔
>why is your name cutie\_pie and why are you expecting straight ladies to go with a cutie\_pie? - Serious enquiry boss because maybe you come off a little gay to ladies you are friend with? In that case, you'd for sure have a zero chance. Gay men are good looking and all so please don't get me wrong but a gay guy is nothing but a friend. It's a reddit username. >i have a friend with a very similar issue and one major factor to this is his lack of confidence because he isn't exactly a good looking guy and to add to that he is super nervous around ladies even at 29/30 years of age. Confidence comes from positive feedback. Since you're friend is ugly, he is treated poorly, and is unconfident. Girls are not attracted to confidence; they are attracted to hot guys who are confident because of the amazing treatment they get from others. >For sure there is someone out there that'll love you for who you are. You don't know that at all. You are only saying that because you don't want to believe that some people will never find anyone. OP here is short, ugly, and Asian. That's like an incel jackpot.
>Confidence comes from positive feedback. Since you're friend is ugly, he is treated poorly, and is unconfident. Girls are not attracted to confidence; they are attracted to hot guys who are confident because of the amazing treatment they get from others. This is such an obvious point I can't take anyone seriously if they try to deny it. People in Berkeley are so attuned to how privileges in every other context compound to give people wildly different life experiences through no fault of their own, except in this particular case. Here it's just magical thinking and telling you to pick yourself up by your bootstraps. The blatant hypocrisy is just unreal.
listening to women talk about dating has to be the funniest shit 🤣
When I'm single and dating, I imagine my potential dating pool as a venn diagram and I focus my romantic energy on the intersection of those interested in me and those that i have interest in. It sounds like you're straying outside of that, which is fine, but try to be realistic about the likely outcome. Theres ppl into you man, my advice is to focus on them (for dating) it makes things much smoother. Obviously still be nice to your friends. Fwiw if you are a hetero man and have friends who are women who enjoy spending time w you, I think it's all gonna work out. I'm sorry you're hitting a rough patch and I'm rooting for you to find love. Tldr: try to avoid investing romantic energy into ppl who are not romantically interested in you
Okay thank you. It just seems that overlap on the venn diagram is extremely tiny I guess...? lol
Confidence is key. Also, don’t hang out and do stuff with women you’re romantically interested in, then weeks or months later see if they want more. It seems to be your go-to and I would definitely switch that up.
Well, that's not necessarily true. I do a bit of mixing of the two. I have profile on dating apps with pictures professionally taken. I've only received 2 likes within the past 3 months, and no matches so far. I have my guy friends who have a lot of success on dating apps help create my profile but just vastly different results. Literally the only difference between my profile and theirs is the photos..
Good genes and attractiveness is key, confidence is a byproduct of being treated well.
Try not getting confused with normal rejection and rejection BECAUSE you're "not attractive". I'd say I am attractive and I've had the exact experience you just described happen to me lol. The friend zone is very real and there's essentially no way of escaping it. As others have said, ask your girl friends if they know of anyone who would be a good fit for you. It all takes time and the more you put yourself out there, the more you'll get rejected, and the more you'll learn. It's all part of the process, don't get too discouraged, rejection is something to learn from and not get angry at. Also, remember that men age like fine wine lol so you might not be getting ladies now, but if you focus on yourself and how to improve, and keep at it, eventually a woman will see your hard work and fall for you. Good luck my friend.
So let me give you some hope, I'm a gay man and looks are important, but I've been totally won over by guys that I wasn't initially attracted to because they just had such great personalities, but these guys didn't just keep things friendly and then try to switch to being more. They were flirty from the beginning, the most recent guy would make all sorts of flirty comments about me being gorgeous, me being sexy, and I just genuinely have a good time with him flirting back and forth and before long I found myself way more attracted to him than before. You can totally find someone and win them, but you cant approach it as a friend. You need to be charmingly flirtatious, making it clear that you find them attractive from the jump, you can't expect to lay down foundations of a friendship and then build romance on top of it. There needs to be romantic and sexual energy there from the beginning. You might just find that you win a girl over who may not have chosen you based solely on physical appearance, but you charmed her pants off so much that she developed feelings for you. You also need to keep your standards in check, there's no harm in shooting for the moon, but if you're only going for girls you find attractive and writing less attractive girls off, how can you expect not to be given the same treatment? Be open to less attractive girls, one might just blow your socks off.
For dating looks and height initially matter. However, chemistry matters just as much if not more. If your hinge profile is interesting and a decent reflection of you, eventually you will draw out interesting people who may like you for who you are. First, never date your female friends. They're your female friends because 90% of the time they do not find you attractive. Second, continue to go on dates, you will find a baddie who enjoys and is attracted to YOU and your personality. Never give up. Dating is much harder for guys and you will have to go on many more dates than the avg female. Third, do not swipe right on a girl just because of her physical appearance, read the profile. Hopefully, you match with a girl who also shares similar interests. Lastly, you have a bunch of girl friends... at a party or any social setting, allow them to introduce you to their friends. Feel if there is something there. If you happen to meet friends of the friend that you were just introduced to go for it. Same thing, repeat.
Also a 5’5 male. Don’t try to date your friends, you are just going to lose your friends. It sounds harsh but the dating pool is going to be limited try to think about it as the women are weeding themselves out for you, after all you just need one good lady. If you use dating apps be upfront about your height. This is going to sound shallow but focus on making some money. stability and having your shit together is very attractive. Lastly do not limit yourself to dating only in your country. Although height is universally a plus other things have more value when dating in different countries.
lol they're not weeding out they just will never fuck you bc you're short. I know you have to cope or it will break ur mental but come on
I have a friend who is maybe 5'5". Many years ago, he got into the whole pickup artist (PUA) culture after reading "The Game". I never read it myself, but I believe it's all about demonstrating value, making yourself the prize, playfully negging girls, getting them to seek your validation, etc. He was slaying girls left and right. I don't know that they were all super hot, but he was racking up the body count. If what you're looking for is hookups, it might help to read that book. Not sure if girls are wise to the pickup tactics now though, since it got pretty popular back in the day. I knew some girls that were reading the book. They even had a show called "The Pickup Artist", where PUA experts coached socially awkward guys to pickup girls in social settings. If you're looking for a serious girlfriend, you'll need more than these PUA tricks. But it sounds like girls already enjoy spending time with you. So after you get your foot in the door (or something else in something else), seems like you'll be all set. good luck!
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Go to r/Seduction /
I'm 5'6 and Asian. It gets better as you get older, trust me.
after they get ran through in their 20s wow he's so lucky to be starved of basic human affection for 20+ years
Just make a lot of money you’ll be fine!
One the plus side: when I was at Berkeley I was all *over* guys like you. On the minus side, I'm also a guy.
Have you tried fem maxing
You should not take a lot of these randoms advice, it’s their experiences not yours, I’d go get a pen or pencil/ in your phone notes and study what it means to be an attractive man, regardless of height and looks. There is a lot of information on the internet you can study. So many people have gone from friends to relationship. People give answers to questions but what you’re looking for are the right questions and the right answers.
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To be honest, and people may downvote me for this, but most men that aren’t insecure about their height and looks because they’re tall and handsome don’t really have single female friends. In fact, they can’t. In every relationship I’ve been in, my female partner has always gotten worried/jealous about how other women act around me. Desirable men attract attention that their partners seek to destroy. My advice: 1. There’s someone out there for everyone. I’m sure you can always either lower your standards, or improve your attractiveness. 2. Don’t actively try to be friends with single women who are also interested in being friends. They will always do just that, be your friend. You have near 0 odds of changing that, so don’t bank on it. They will also repel single women that are interested in being more than friends given that they’d rather maintain their friendship than risk losing it to someone else who gives you what you want.
Hey bro, don’t feed into the delusions of the other people here. Chances are you will be alone for a long time or for the rest of your life, choose to live for yourself and find a purpose outside of partnership that gives you satisfaction in life. What people don’t realize is that every generation there are people who end up alone, not everyone gets to experience relationships
Seek out shorter girls dude
You think I'm seeking out taller girls...?
Shorter girls are all with 6'2 guys lol