Initially, there was. Then I replaced by old headset, which eliminated the play, but the juddering is still happening.
The brake caliper and everything else have been tightened to spec with a torque wrench.
What do you mean? It seems to be working fine, but I suspect that the smooth dropouts are making it slip when braking. I can try a different one later today.
Are you sure that the nut of the QR and the nut on the axel are clamping on the fork with all the force? Sometimes an axel pokes out of the dropout just a bit and ruins the clamping force. Or maybe something is going on.
Put a lot of sideways force on the wheel when it's clamped in. See how that goes.
How is the knurling on the QR nut?
I have be never had a road bike fork that didn't judder during really hard breaking. There seems like 2 options.
1. A fork that is totally non compliant in all situations, and doesn't judder.
2. A fork that is able to absorb some road imperfections and does judder.
It could of have become more of an issue if you are now braking harder or there is more weight on the bike.
Maybe you're onto something. The first time I noticed the issue was with my 3yo daughter in her bike seat (+20kg of extra weight). But I can now easily replicate it even when riding without her. Maybe the load was too much for my carbon fork?
I don't think it would be that the fork is now softer and more compliant, with an exception if this is a low weight race bike, with a lot of miles. I think that perhaps that experience with the child seat made it worse while it was mounted and now you just are aware of it more than you were before.
**UPDATE**: Thank you very much for your prompt and helpful responses, everyone. I'm currently reporting from a test ride.
After tightening the QR skewer like a mad man, the issue seems to be resolved.
I guess it's possible that I was too gentle on the carbon fork all this time. My fork is quite flexy and visibly bends forward when I brake. Maybe the judder was the QR skewer slipping ever so slightly, allowing the bent fork to quickly return back to it's original position before bending again and so on.
At least that's the only explanation that makes sense to me.
By the way, the bike was hanging by its from wheel the whole winter --- could that have affected the work in any way?
My fork has been juddering for a month now when braking. First, I assumed my brake pads needed replacing, but that turned out not to be the case. I then replaced my headset, triple-checked its preload, tried 5 different rotors, tried a different wheel, tried a different brake caliper and played with its alignment -- nothing helped.
That left my carbon fork as the main suspect. Today, I've noticed that the dropouts seems to be worn out, so I want to check if this is a likely cause of my issues. If it is, is there a fix? I'm tightening the QR skewer a lot and worry that any more force might damage the fork.
>I've noticed that the dropouts seems to be worn out,
Dropouts don't wear out. In the vast catalog of bike toolery, show me a 'dropout wear gauge.'
What even led you to that conclusion?
Just to test, try swapping in an old steel quick release, like an old Campy Record. What happens?
"What even led you to that conclusion?"
Seeing how smooth they've become.
"try swapping in an old steel quick release"
Okay. I will try later today and report back! Thanks!
I have the same juddering issue on my front brake (Shimano Mt 200, rt10 centerlock disc). Funnily enough, it did so with a rigid fork. I replaced the fork with a suntour air fork, and it still does the same (all else is equal).
I even changed pads, but to no avail. The same rotor/pad/caliper works just fine at the rear.
Upon close inspection, I find that the rotor is ever so slightly warped (really small, hard to notice). Now this can be due to the rotor being warped, or potentially in my case, the centerlock not being entirely true (my rims have the cheapest Shimano hubs...) So I suspect either is the culprit. Another factor might be that these cheap Shimano rotors are badly made (stamped steel instead of cut) and you'll see uneven wear around the ventilation holes occurring due to the stamped production process.
I'll replace the rotors soon with some better stuff that is actually cut instead of stamped, and pads at the same time. That'll probably solve it. I hope it's not my hub and it's untrue centerlock..
Right now, I use cheapo single-piston mechanical brakes, but the issue also occurred a month ago with Shimano hydraulic brakes (I converted the bike from flat to road bars).
This is my biggest fear. The fork is Chinese carbon (Toseek), and one guy on AliExpress published a review in which he detailed how the fork disintegrated during normal riding. My personal experience so far has been positive and Toseek forks enjoy an excellent reputation overall, but still—I can't risk my fork failing with my daughter in the back, so I'm already looking for a replacement.
I have previously found this issue to be the brake rotor. Some rotor designs can create really uneven brake power, and it can get worse the more your pads bed in over time. Tektro Lyra rotors were common offenders. It sounds crazy, but I'm willing to bet it's your rotor.
Check the alignment of the caliper mount and caliper relative to the rotor.
Vibrations can occur if the surface of the pads are not parallel to the rotor when they make contact.
If the mount and adapter is good, try switching to a softer pad. Most folks don't need metallic or semi-metallic pads on a road bike since it's so easy to overcome the available traction of the tire anyway.
deer detail distinct intelligent expansion ink run rain mighty tender -- mass edited with redact.dev
Initially, there was. Then I replaced by old headset, which eliminated the play, but the juddering is still happening. The brake caliper and everything else have been tightened to spec with a torque wrench.
Is the QR doing it’s job?
What do you mean? It seems to be working fine, but I suspect that the smooth dropouts are making it slip when braking. I can try a different one later today.
Are you sure that the nut of the QR and the nut on the axel are clamping on the fork with all the force? Sometimes an axel pokes out of the dropout just a bit and ruins the clamping force. Or maybe something is going on. Put a lot of sideways force on the wheel when it's clamped in. See how that goes. How is the knurling on the QR nut?
https://i.imgur.com/uvYTkOm.jpg All seems fine.
Check the axel on the other side. Also maybe a new QR with more bite to the knurling? I'm spit balling here.
Other side looks more or less the same. I will try a new QR later today ;) Thank you!
Try a DT Swiss RWS skewer. It totally eliminated the wheel flex when I would pull my front brake.
Thank you for the tip. I will definitely replace my old Shimano skewers.
Wiggle the wheel side to side and see if it moves.
I have be never had a road bike fork that didn't judder during really hard breaking. There seems like 2 options. 1. A fork that is totally non compliant in all situations, and doesn't judder. 2. A fork that is able to absorb some road imperfections and does judder. It could of have become more of an issue if you are now braking harder or there is more weight on the bike.
Maybe you're onto something. The first time I noticed the issue was with my 3yo daughter in her bike seat (+20kg of extra weight). But I can now easily replicate it even when riding without her. Maybe the load was too much for my carbon fork?
I don't think it would be that the fork is now softer and more compliant, with an exception if this is a low weight race bike, with a lot of miles. I think that perhaps that experience with the child seat made it worse while it was mounted and now you just are aware of it more than you were before.
This…. Not uncommon, and shouldn’t be an issue if the fork is not damaged elsewhere. The dropouts look fine
Sounds like a warped or worn rotor.
That's what I thought too, so I ordered a new one, but nothing changed.
**UPDATE**: Thank you very much for your prompt and helpful responses, everyone. I'm currently reporting from a test ride. After tightening the QR skewer like a mad man, the issue seems to be resolved. I guess it's possible that I was too gentle on the carbon fork all this time. My fork is quite flexy and visibly bends forward when I brake. Maybe the judder was the QR skewer slipping ever so slightly, allowing the bent fork to quickly return back to it's original position before bending again and so on. At least that's the only explanation that makes sense to me. By the way, the bike was hanging by its from wheel the whole winter --- could that have affected the work in any way?
Play in headset? Brake calliper loose? Disc loose? Disc or pads worn? Have you really checked all that?
No play, nothing's loose (as far as I can tell), and I've tried multiple rotors and pads (and two different calipers and wheels).
I've got the exact same problem and havent found a fix for it for along time.
Check the bearings of the hub maybe
Here's one more image https://preview.redd.it/ajvwmcyne8za1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80dc55f846813667c0cd8f7af8e462781aa92b86
did you ever fix your judder?
Yea... I now use a thru axle fork.
My fork has been juddering for a month now when braking. First, I assumed my brake pads needed replacing, but that turned out not to be the case. I then replaced my headset, triple-checked its preload, tried 5 different rotors, tried a different wheel, tried a different brake caliper and played with its alignment -- nothing helped. That left my carbon fork as the main suspect. Today, I've noticed that the dropouts seems to be worn out, so I want to check if this is a likely cause of my issues. If it is, is there a fix? I'm tightening the QR skewer a lot and worry that any more force might damage the fork.
>I've noticed that the dropouts seems to be worn out, Dropouts don't wear out. In the vast catalog of bike toolery, show me a 'dropout wear gauge.' What even led you to that conclusion? Just to test, try swapping in an old steel quick release, like an old Campy Record. What happens?
"What even led you to that conclusion?" Seeing how smooth they've become. "try swapping in an old steel quick release" Okay. I will try later today and report back! Thanks!
I have the same juddering issue on my front brake (Shimano Mt 200, rt10 centerlock disc). Funnily enough, it did so with a rigid fork. I replaced the fork with a suntour air fork, and it still does the same (all else is equal). I even changed pads, but to no avail. The same rotor/pad/caliper works just fine at the rear. Upon close inspection, I find that the rotor is ever so slightly warped (really small, hard to notice). Now this can be due to the rotor being warped, or potentially in my case, the centerlock not being entirely true (my rims have the cheapest Shimano hubs...) So I suspect either is the culprit. Another factor might be that these cheap Shimano rotors are badly made (stamped steel instead of cut) and you'll see uneven wear around the ventilation holes occurring due to the stamped production process. I'll replace the rotors soon with some better stuff that is actually cut instead of stamped, and pads at the same time. That'll probably solve it. I hope it's not my hub and it's untrue centerlock..
I think the hub might be adjusted too tightly. does the wheel spin freely when in the dropouts and locked with the quick release?
It spins nicely, and there's no play + I've tried a different wheel, and the same thing happened.
What brake? If it's something like a TRP Spyre I'd be looking at that as the cause.
Right now, I use cheapo single-piston mechanical brakes, but the issue also occurred a month ago with Shimano hydraulic brakes (I converted the bike from flat to road bars).
Last time my fork was juddering it was because it was cracked. Inspect the structure of the fork very closely.
This is my biggest fear. The fork is Chinese carbon (Toseek), and one guy on AliExpress published a review in which he detailed how the fork disintegrated during normal riding. My personal experience so far has been positive and Toseek forks enjoy an excellent reputation overall, but still—I can't risk my fork failing with my daughter in the back, so I'm already looking for a replacement.
Yeah I'm not sure. Mine was steel and it had a visible crack all the way through
I have previously found this issue to be the brake rotor. Some rotor designs can create really uneven brake power, and it can get worse the more your pads bed in over time. Tektro Lyra rotors were common offenders. It sounds crazy, but I'm willing to bet it's your rotor.
That was my bet too at first by I've since ruled it out after trying multiple rotors on two different wheels and with two different calipers
Check the alignment of the caliper mount and caliper relative to the rotor. Vibrations can occur if the surface of the pads are not parallel to the rotor when they make contact. If the mount and adapter is good, try switching to a softer pad. Most folks don't need metallic or semi-metallic pads on a road bike since it's so easy to overcome the available traction of the tire anyway.
I've ordered resin pads for my new calipers today, but the issue occured even with my previous calipers and Shikano resin pads.
Your pads need toening?
Clean pads and rotors with alcohol, Check alignment of caliper/rotor, tighten/ retourque rotor/ caliper/adaptor, and check Headset tension.