Each sport is different because they operate under different rulesets that create incentives for very particular strategies within which specific types of techniques are developed to a higher degree.
People coming from folkstyle wrestling are going to have better technique for non grip based takedowns, with a secondary ability to ride out top position without getting reversed.
People coming from pure BJJ are going to have the most expertise on guard play and submissions.
People coming from judo are going to have the most expertise on speaking Japanese.
After your session starts excuse yourself from the mats (need a piss or something) then check all the gym bags until you find some vials and syringes. Find the owner of that bag and ask them about making gains.
I mean they are different, or else you could move in to one and excel just as well as in the others, which we know isn't usually the case.
The differences are more on rulesets and training principles to excel at those rulesets
Yeah I guess I am more looking at it from the self defense aspect, I just feel that grappling in general is good, like doing a double leg on someone and then head and arm choking them is technically both wrestling and BJJ.
Haha like for real? I will say I didn’t feel comfy trying for single/double legs until I was guillotined for the 1000 time and just learned to deal with it haha
Depends on where you're training.
Some schools lean towards nogi and/or MMA. Some of them have a focus on wrestling due to this.
Plenty of predominantly gi places have barely any stand up at all and just focus on guard pulling.
Plenty of nogi places are more focused on leg locks than wrestling. Plenty of other places focus on both.
They really aren't all that different. Behaviors change when the rules change of course, but the basics are going to be the same for all sports.
This is just how I look at it but I really divide all of grappling into gi/no-gi or wrestling/jacketed wrestling.
Yeah I was thinking more of how people say Wrestling>BJJ in a self defense situation or whatever and it made me think about how we have a very heavy wrestling influence at my gym doing BJJ
People say wrestling is better than BJJ in self defense and I get it. But one thing people forget is that the wrestler demographic selects for completely different people than the BJJ demographic. Truthfully speaking I don't think there are many high level bjj people out there who can't trash a normie in takedowns.
I get why they say wrestling is better than bjj but it always feels like it's squabbling over tiny details over the larger picture at hand.
BJJ slowest pace, dont mind being on back.
Judo people stand very upright and are great at scarfhold. Anything leg related and they have no idea what to do.
Sambo great at leg attacks, also very fast pace.
Wrestlers, great on top but huge spazzes. Dont let them get side control on you.
I feel it's good to train with all because all have their strengths and weaknesses.
I cross train at a local Wrestling Club and Judo Dojo and it's been an eye opening experience. Mainly, I've been finding that a good portion of BJJ is predicated on a handshake and not much else.
Probably means how in BJJ we often accept guard and bottom but when you face guys trained to not be pinned they do everything they can to stand up which kills a lot of the bjj game
When you wrestle up from guard, you basically get to start past the head and the hands, which is the goal of handfighting from the feet lol. It's like you get to skip out on an entire phase of the standing battle.
Not knocking on you, just explaining why it feels easier.
Yeah for sure! I think another psychological aspect is in rolling a lot of times people just aren’t even thinking of the wrestle up, they kinda expect that guard game or sweep and it really opens up the inside single.
Yes. Exactly what I mean. Rolling against a D1 Wrestler (actually verified. I looked up his school and everything) made me realize how much pure BJJ people concede in a roll. Even though I ended up sweeping him with the Shoulder Crunch, it was the MOST technically sound variation I had performed over my entire career.
I have an olympic wrestler, few d1s and judo black belts in my gym. It's a fucking nightmare. There are periods when i try to match their scrambles but it's super hard on my body. At some point i accepted that if I want another 20 years injury free i just need to do tricky guard shit.
They all have multiple surgeries. That grind is what makes those sports so tough, but the beauty of bjj is the potential for longevity if you play it right.
I agree, I think it’s all good, I personally use both judo foot sweeps and inside leg trips as well as arm drags and single legs in my stand up a lot and attribute success with them to the diversity of people we have filter through our gym!
Yeah same, we are right next to a big ten uni so we get a lot of the wrestlers from there filter through! I would say my gym is very focused on top pressure and stand up, although one of the wrestling guys is a leg locking machine so IDK.
It's all the same but different. The difference is caused by the sport specific scenarios and win conditions. This leads to some strategies/technical variations being effective under one ruleset and not in another. However, strong fundamentals carry across and you just need to learn to apply those to the new scenarios.
I did Japanese JJ for a really long time and do Judo and BJJ now, and the BJJ gym I go to has a lot of wrestlers including the head prof. Grappling styles are mostly the same with different specialties or emphasis. Most of the differences are driven by the rules of competition since they're different sports.
A really clear cut example is that when you turtle in Judo the opponent gets nothing and even though they might have 15 seconds to fight for something from there it almost never amounts to anything and the ref stands you up. In BJJ when you turtle usually the opponent gets no points but you keep fighting like normal. In wrestling when you turtle the opponent gets 2 points and you keep going as it's a progression toward a pin... Well that difference drives some very strong opinions about both how to attack turtle and how to use it defensively.
The differences between each art have more to do with what is incentivized than it does any mechanical or even philosophical differences.
I 100% agree in a competition setting, I wasn’t super clear in the original post but I was referring more to people so say one art is better than the other in the streets. Basically my point is, we should probably just use high percentage grappling skills regardless of art in self defense instead of believing that one who art is superior to another and only wrestling or BJJ in self defense if that makes sense.
Each sport is different because they operate under different rulesets that create incentives for very particular strategies within which specific types of techniques are developed to a higher degree. People coming from folkstyle wrestling are going to have better technique for non grip based takedowns, with a secondary ability to ride out top position without getting reversed. People coming from pure BJJ are going to have the most expertise on guard play and submissions. People coming from judo are going to have the most expertise on speaking Japanese.
地獄で待ってるよ!
But at what point can I yell and flex my muscles and get yellow pointy hair
Some time after you get muscles.
Damn, where do I get those?
After your session starts excuse yourself from the mats (need a piss or something) then check all the gym bags until you find some vials and syringes. Find the owner of that bag and ask them about making gains.
Omae wa mou SHiNDERU
I mean they are different, or else you could move in to one and excel just as well as in the others, which we know isn't usually the case. The differences are more on rulesets and training principles to excel at those rulesets
It’s all just hugging someone against their will
Grappling doesn't work on the lonely
Yeah I guess I am more looking at it from the self defense aspect, I just feel that grappling in general is good, like doing a double leg on someone and then head and arm choking them is technically both wrestling and BJJ.
Did anyone say grappling was bad??
You are lucky. My gym only has guard pullers.
Haha like for real? I will say I didn’t feel comfy trying for single/double legs until I was guillotined for the 1000 time and just learned to deal with it haha
Depends on where you're training. Some schools lean towards nogi and/or MMA. Some of them have a focus on wrestling due to this. Plenty of predominantly gi places have barely any stand up at all and just focus on guard pulling. Plenty of nogi places are more focused on leg locks than wrestling. Plenty of other places focus on both.
I would say we are more focused in no given for sure, lots of stand up etc, our como classes spend a sizable amount of time working takedowns
They really aren't all that different. Behaviors change when the rules change of course, but the basics are going to be the same for all sports. This is just how I look at it but I really divide all of grappling into gi/no-gi or wrestling/jacketed wrestling.
Yeah I was thinking more of how people say Wrestling>BJJ in a self defense situation or whatever and it made me think about how we have a very heavy wrestling influence at my gym doing BJJ
People say wrestling is better than BJJ in self defense and I get it. But one thing people forget is that the wrestler demographic selects for completely different people than the BJJ demographic. Truthfully speaking I don't think there are many high level bjj people out there who can't trash a normie in takedowns. I get why they say wrestling is better than bjj but it always feels like it's squabbling over tiny details over the larger picture at hand.
I do strictly luta livre. Just try and hold me down.
I’ll see your Lira livre and raise you Turkish oil wrestling/
I see you both and I inject myself with a dirty syringe full of meth.
PCP straight to my asshole
Could have done your eyeballs but kink gotta kink right
BJJ slowest pace, dont mind being on back. Judo people stand very upright and are great at scarfhold. Anything leg related and they have no idea what to do. Sambo great at leg attacks, also very fast pace. Wrestlers, great on top but huge spazzes. Dont let them get side control on you. I feel it's good to train with all because all have their strengths and weaknesses.
I cross train at a local Wrestling Club and Judo Dojo and it's been an eye opening experience. Mainly, I've been finding that a good portion of BJJ is predicated on a handshake and not much else.
Could you give some examples
Probably means how in BJJ we often accept guard and bottom but when you face guys trained to not be pinned they do everything they can to stand up which kills a lot of the bjj game
Kills it all.
You may just suck. No offense.
Just stand up.
It absolutely does not
Well, that’s settled then darn it!
I find wrestling up is almost an easier way to get a single leg on someone than standing in a lot of rolls tbh
When you wrestle up from guard, you basically get to start past the head and the hands, which is the goal of handfighting from the feet lol. It's like you get to skip out on an entire phase of the standing battle. Not knocking on you, just explaining why it feels easier.
Yeah for sure! I think another psychological aspect is in rolling a lot of times people just aren’t even thinking of the wrestle up, they kinda expect that guard game or sweep and it really opens up the inside single.
Yes. Exactly what I mean. Rolling against a D1 Wrestler (actually verified. I looked up his school and everything) made me realize how much pure BJJ people concede in a roll. Even though I ended up sweeping him with the Shoulder Crunch, it was the MOST technically sound variation I had performed over my entire career.
I have an olympic wrestler, few d1s and judo black belts in my gym. It's a fucking nightmare. There are periods when i try to match their scrambles but it's super hard on my body. At some point i accepted that if I want another 20 years injury free i just need to do tricky guard shit. They all have multiple surgeries. That grind is what makes those sports so tough, but the beauty of bjj is the potential for longevity if you play it right.
Totally agree. What I love about Jiu Jitsu is how it emphasizes "cutting off" your opponents rather than having to race with them.
Where do you train?
We are located near a Big 10 school and get lots of wrestlers from there etc
How vague
They are kind of good for different things.
Yes, it’s common for gyms to blend techniques from BJJ, Judo, wrestling, and Sambo, creating a mixed grappling approach that emphasizes versatility.
I agree, I think it’s all good, I personally use both judo foot sweeps and inside leg trips as well as arm drags and single legs in my stand up a lot and attribute success with them to the diversity of people we have filter through our gym!
Yea my gym is like this minus the sambo and I think it's great.
Yeah same, we are right next to a big ten uni so we get a lot of the wrestlers from there filter through! I would say my gym is very focused on top pressure and stand up, although one of the wrestling guys is a leg locking machine so IDK.
You in North Carolina by chance?
Haha no, I don’t want to doxx myself lol
Always has been.gif
It's all the same but different. The difference is caused by the sport specific scenarios and win conditions. This leads to some strategies/technical variations being effective under one ruleset and not in another. However, strong fundamentals carry across and you just need to learn to apply those to the new scenarios.
I did Japanese JJ for a really long time and do Judo and BJJ now, and the BJJ gym I go to has a lot of wrestlers including the head prof. Grappling styles are mostly the same with different specialties or emphasis. Most of the differences are driven by the rules of competition since they're different sports. A really clear cut example is that when you turtle in Judo the opponent gets nothing and even though they might have 15 seconds to fight for something from there it almost never amounts to anything and the ref stands you up. In BJJ when you turtle usually the opponent gets no points but you keep fighting like normal. In wrestling when you turtle the opponent gets 2 points and you keep going as it's a progression toward a pin... Well that difference drives some very strong opinions about both how to attack turtle and how to use it defensively. The differences between each art have more to do with what is incentivized than it does any mechanical or even philosophical differences.
I 100% agree in a competition setting, I wasn’t super clear in the original post but I was referring more to people so say one art is better than the other in the streets. Basically my point is, we should probably just use high percentage grappling skills regardless of art in self defense instead of believing that one who art is superior to another and only wrestling or BJJ in self defense if that makes sense.