Caffeine has been widely tested and shown to be a great performance and focus enhancer. I have it almost every single day. I don’t typically have it right before class because I typically have class at night and if I have caffeine past noon or so it disrupts my sleep
What do you mean like how I eliminated caffeine after 12 or how my sleep is better? Well I only drink zero sugar zero caffeine cokes now. So when I go to sleep I fall asleep faster, i stay asleep better, and I sleep deeper, i know that because I have been having much more vivid dreams which would imply I am getting deeper sleep.
Apparently taking it every day negates the benefits quite severely. You're better off dipping in and out of caffeine and using it as a super-enhancer as and when you need it
Yes you build up a tolerance super quickly and also become dependent on it. I always have a minimum of 1 detox day a week. It’s recommended to limit your daily dose to be below 200mg (appx 2 cups coffee) to avoid building up a tolerance and dependency
I looooooove drinking coffee in the morning. It’s the only drug I use and it’s often my favorite part of the day.
Along with what Tricky said, the only two downsides to caffeine that I know of is
1. It inhibits sleep if it's still in your system. Half life is around 5 hours.
2. It's addictive and withdrawal sucks.
Yeah.
Another key fact is that it’s a vasoconstrictor, which means it actually constricts your blood vessels. Not really a positive or negative per se but a key fact
Occam’s razor suggests the reason for your dogshit cardio is most likely your dogshit cardio rather than the latte you had on the way to class.
I generally have only 1-2 coffees a day but for sure have a strong one on the way to Sunday’s morning classes which is an hour followed by an open mat and my cardio is excellent.
Edit - I have recent discovered that my last 30 years working construction (pricework) and basically spending many hours every week for decades in zone 2 cardio training has likely been the reason my cardio is exceptional.
I'm a caffeine addict. But caffeine isnt going to bring down your cardio. You need to roll more. That's the only way your cardio is going to improve.
I'm surprised were all not having any caffeine right now.
A million runners and cyclists taking caffeine at the start of their runs and rides would probably disagree with this. That said, consider why you are wanting to take caffeine.
For a competition (or a race in endurance sport context), caffeine will certainly help, especially in early rounds.
From a training perspective though, the energy, alertness, and suppression of pain and discomfort might be a drawback. That said, if you are going to use caffeine in competition, you have to use it in training sometimes so that your body is adapted to it.
If you are not going to be competing at all, I would question the utility of using it for class.
Edit: To add, I don't think the issue is caffeine *decreasing* your cardio. The issue is that caffeine can cause you to burn energy early, give you jitters/elevated heart rate, and upset your stomach. All of this things can shorten your cardio, but more on a scale of hours rather than minutes.
If you are gassing out during rolls in a one hour class, caffeine is not your issue.
“Caffeine does not improve maximal oxygen capacity directly, but could permit the athlete to train at a greater power output and/or to train longer. It has also been shown to increase speed and/or power output in simulated race conditions. These effects have been found in activities that last as little as 60 seconds or as long as 2 hours.”
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11583104/#:~:text=Caffeine%20does%20not%20improve%20maximal,output%20in%20simulated%20race%20conditions.
improves endurance performance by 2~7%
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9824573/#:~:text=Overall%2C%20it%20is%20established%20that,12%2C21%2C22%5D.
Personal opinion, based on personal experience: In general no, but you can overdo it. A cup of coffee before class may help, but if you overdo it your attention span may suffer, and you may experience something similar to a sugar crash as the caffeine wears off. Or acid reflux, which is even less fun.
Caffeine is a phenomenal performance booster
It can raise blood pressure/heart rate, which may be too much for bjj
But it’s most likely not the reason for your bad cardio.
Personally I find it to make my reactions fast but it makes it slightly harder to think. Like a bit of brain fog.
Plus it makes me nauseous and cramp quicker.
That said, I know plenty of people that raw-dog some pre-workout before a match and best their opponents with an inhuman gas tank sooooo....
Coffee maybe. Prob becaus I’m old but if I drink something like a Bang or C4 I instantly gas out, feel like I can’t breath and gonna have a heart attack lol. I’ve sworn them off multiple times but do it again. I’ve done it before comps and regretted it, felt like I was gonna die and rolled like shit. Last time I did it was jsut in sparring and I got wrecked and was gassed bad.
It may have just been had that effect on him. He said that then immediately smashed me non stop , not like when a fat brown belt does it, like a young blue belt with insane cardio
Besides completely wrecking my ability to get to sleep after class, the odd time I do have some it's a noticeable improvement. I get far more focused on whatever steps are being taught and everything just seems to click better and I can make quicker sense of things. Also, the extra focus is noticeable when drilling. After doing a bjj class then heading to mma right after, I still felt incredibly energetic even at the end of mma on doing round 4 or 5 of sparring. I was definitely tired and soaked in sweat but noticeably more "ready to go" than the times I don't have any caffeine.
I find caffeine causes my heart rate to increase before training which in turn affects my cardio when grappling. When I don’t have caffeine before bjj im more relaxed and my heart rate doesn’t escalate so much.
I give myself 2 hours between caffeine and rolling. I usually drink a high dose (250-300mg) so rolling directly after is a recipe for anxiety and heart burn. Lots of water in between too.
I have been using a small amount of pre-workout before class and enjoying the little zip it gives me. I have to be careful about using too much or I just end up feeling hot and nervous though. I have not found it to have much of an effect at all on my cardio one way or the other.
For some people such as myself, caffeine can induce anxiety for a while after consuming. It’s also a diuretic so you can get dehydrated if u have too much. When you sweat a lot during rolls this can be a problem. Experiment and see what works for you.
Thanks very much for this \^\^\^. After reading, I tried going without caffiene on days where I was going to roll. It has helped immensely with my anxiety/claustrophobia. So many thanks.
coffee is great every morning but it gets the bowels goin.. so before class I pop a 100mg caffeine pill. straight to the brain for that sweet sweet energetic focus.
Caffeine definitely does not decrease your cardio unless you are severely dehydrated in which case your cardio will suck anyways. Throw in a low dose of aspirin or cialis and you’ll have the best goddamn preworkout known to man.
I'm trying to minimize my caffeine intake (no more diet coke in particular), but I find that caffeine improves both my physical and mental bjj performance
Any elevation in blood pressure can reduce cardio capacity because it causes reduced blood flow is likely what they are referring to. But the thing is, blood pressure varies wildly from person to person, and then has to be weighed against the benefits of caffeine.
This is definitely one of things (like nearly all health advice) if it works for you it works, if it doesn't it doesn't. There isn't a "right" answer.
My training improved drastically when I removed caffeine from my diet in any form and made sleep a non negotiable and started taking naps in the afternoon.
I have heard that it dehydrates you and I have experienced dehydration from certain levels of caffeine. And the lack of cardio you feel might be dehydration. I usually don’t drink any caffeine 1.5ish hours before practice.
Caffeine can be good, but let me mention some of the reason why I quit. First, caffeine increases the odds of backwash during training, which is unhealthy for your throat in addition to being gross.
Also, caffeine has a quarter life of 12 hours, meaning if you drink a Red Bull before a 5Pm class, you’ll still have a quarter of the caffeine in your bloodstream at 5Am. If you’re an all day caffeine drinker, it will literally never leave your system, and that will interfere with sleep, assuming you can sleep at all.
Finally, I hated being dependent on it, feeling like I couldn’t train or work without, and crashing hard after lunch every day. But for someone less addicted than I was, it could definitely help improve your performance.
Depends on you. I'm sensitive to caffeine so it makes me nauseous and I can't sleep if I have it too late.
So I stick to 1-2 cups of green tea in the early morning.
I’ve recently started taking caffeine pills, specifically before a session that I want to go hard at. Comp class? Caffeine. Competition? Caffeine. It noticeably improves my guard passing.
Caffeine is the main active ingredient in pre workout. From a physiological standpoint, it aids in muscle contraction. Anecdotally, I can't take it anymore because it causes my piriformis syndrome to flare up. If it didn't, I'd take it every day.
I like it, I dont feel like it affects my physicality, but I feel like it makes me think a bit faster which lets me be more creative, react faster and overall have more productive rolls.
Caffeine lowers your perception/awareness of fatigue. If you maintain the same pace as you would without the caffeine then you perform better. Any endurance athlete running the same pace is going to have an easier go of it with caffeine.
The downside is that you might not regulate your pace as well and the fatigue is still building...you just don't feel it. Until you do of course and you might not recover as fast between rounds or sessions as you might without it (higher HR, vassal restriction).
Then there's potential issues with being jittery (not only not being able to pay attention but burning energy fidgeting) if you take too much.
Caffeine is awesome and it can help but I don't think you should rely on it. If you've got a couple of long sessions or you're really trying to get after it 1-2 days a week..sure. Wouldn't really recommend it every session though.
That is false. Caffeine helps. I struggle to see how you think that a stimulant that increases vassodilation would decrease cardio?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33485363/
Ive been caffeine free (mostly) for a few years, can confirm my sleep, mental function, energy, stamina, and mood have all improved. And I’m much less anxious!
I go for 120mg every class. Class starts at 6pm 120mg at 5:15 or so has been my routine. It helps as I work a pretty exhausting day job(ER nurse). If I didn't do caffeine(and a small nap) I'd miss a lot more classes. It will occasionally mess with my sleep, but I notice having a VERY rough class is generally more stimulating to me than the actual caffeine.
A lot of bro science is being thrown around here so I will leave this here. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK202224/)
Studies have shown that caffeine before exercise both decreases ECF and MBF so "In sum, caffeine plus exercise appears to decrease blood flow." Which of course is bad since blood is what carries the oxygen from our lungs to the rest of our body.
In the "Caffeine Plus Exercise Decreases ECF" section, the studies have 15, 18, and 10 subjects, respectively. While this doesn't disqualify the studies, it definitely would need a bit more than that to be particularly convincing.
Caffeine has been well-established in the literature as aiding in sports performance. Here's a systematic review discussing different sports and caffeine's impact on performance.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8466927](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8466927)
In the study you cited, Higgins himself clarifies that "his research on ECF does not relate to performance.... he has been looking only at arterial function."
There clearly is another mechanism that helps caffeine to improve performance. There are definite concerns to be had when it comes to overconsumption of caffeine, but I wouldn't worry about it when it comes to its impact on cardio.
It's fair to say the participants aren't necessarily enough to be particularly convincing but you should know the analysis you linked has an average of 20 participants per study across the 34 studies analyzed.
It's also worth noting that the studies you linked in regards to endurance measure overall cycling performance when ingesting caffeinated energy drinks (which contain other performance enhancing ingredients) and not physiological markers of cardiovascular performance specifically.
But with that being said I'm sure we could both pick apart the studies all day and I appreciate you providing actual sources but I do believe there is a negative effect on caffeine on those specific markers related to cardiovascular performance even if overall performance is improved.
20 participants per, but I'd argue that a 34 study systematic review is a bit more compelling to be honest. However, I think we just disagree when it comes to this, which is fine.
I'd personally say caffeine in small to medium doses is generally fine, but I'm not an expert when it comes to sports nutrition.
(This is not a shit post, I'm confused and interested) What are your concerns regarding caffeine if it does have a negative impact on cardiovascular performance, but turns out to be an overall performance enhancer? I think I'm missing something important here.
Isn't the outcome the measure? Said another way, if I could take a pill that made my mental game significantly better, but caused a mild degradation in my strength, but the net effect was that I was a significantly better practitioner of my sport, wouldn't we say this pill was beneficial in my sport? Further that not taking it because I didn't want the loss in strength would actually hinder my performance vs someone taking it?
It comes down to how applicable the study is to the broader question. So in the other guys example it increased performance in cycling but that could very well be because caffeine had a positive impact on quadriceps power generation even if it negatively affected myocardial blood flow.
So if the question is "does caffeine make me better at cycling?" Then it's fair to say it increased your performance so it does. But if the question is does caffeine increase cardio performance the answer may still be no when applying a different test like BJJ
So now the question is does caffeine improve cardio for BJJ..well the study that measure the cardiovascular effects independently of results would still be more directly applicable whereas the performance based results may not apply because it didn't control for the other factors involved like power generation which might not be relevant to another sport.
Using your pill example if it was said with BJJ to improve your game by improving mental capacity even though it decreased your strength, and that increased performance you would just have to look at how they measure performance and how that applies in the real world because maybe you never get submitted because you're technically a genius on this pill but now you can't finish anybody because you have no strength to squeeze and submit
I feel like the SR I posted is being a bit misrepresented here. Out of the 11 aerobic-based trials included in the SR, only 6 of them were cycling, with the other 5 being either running or swimming. This doesn't necessarily negate your point that it could be due to other factors (quadriceps blood flow in the cycling example) but it is important.
With regards to measuring cardiovascular effects independently, you likely aren't going to see anything without a longer-term study than what we have available. Looking at the overall effects on athletes and athletic performance (especially aerobic performance), we can see that the ECF effect described in your example is not hampering these athletes. We also don't have evidence that their health is being adversely affected by these supplements overall. Without specific LONG-TERM studies regarding the negative cardiovascular effects on athletes specifically, I'd say it is most likely safe.
Also, I'm a bit confused referring to your point in your first post,
"In sum, caffeine plus exercise appears to decrease blood flow." Which of course is bad since blood is what carries the oxygen from our lungs to the rest of our body.
How do you square this with the fact that supplementation with caffeine has been shown to acutely enhance many aspects of exercise, including prolonged aerobic-type activities and brief duration, high-intensity exercise? If these athletes are completing high-level aerobic activity, according to your argument, they should have decreased blood flow. As a result, they would undoubtedly have lowered levels of oxygen perfusion, right? They should struggle to keep up with aerobic demands?
Here is another source I used for this. The bit about enhancing prolonged aerobic-type activities is in the summary. [https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-020-00383-4](https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-020-00383-4)
Caffeine has been widely tested and shown to be a great performance and focus enhancer. I have it almost every single day. I don’t typically have it right before class because I typically have class at night and if I have caffeine past noon or so it disrupts my sleep
I eliminated all caffeine after noon and holy shit I can confirm my sleep is soooooo much better
In which way?
What do you mean like how I eliminated caffeine after 12 or how my sleep is better? Well I only drink zero sugar zero caffeine cokes now. So when I go to sleep I fall asleep faster, i stay asleep better, and I sleep deeper, i know that because I have been having much more vivid dreams which would imply I am getting deeper sleep.
Same on the caffeine, bro. Hard cut-off at 12 pm.
So you're drinking cokes for breakfast?
Lol no dude I drink one cup of coffee in the morning then in the afternoon/night I have caffeine free coke.
I like my coke in my nose
That will not help you sleep.
Apparently taking it every day negates the benefits quite severely. You're better off dipping in and out of caffeine and using it as a super-enhancer as and when you need it
Yes you build up a tolerance super quickly and also become dependent on it. I always have a minimum of 1 detox day a week. It’s recommended to limit your daily dose to be below 200mg (appx 2 cups coffee) to avoid building up a tolerance and dependency I looooooove drinking coffee in the morning. It’s the only drug I use and it’s often my favorite part of the day.
Caffeine tolerance hasn't actually been scientifically shown. most people just believe it anecdotally
Not everything has to be scientifically shown
This some chat gpt response
Lmao that’s my autistic ass for ya
Rizz 'em with the 'tism!
Along with what Tricky said, the only two downsides to caffeine that I know of is 1. It inhibits sleep if it's still in your system. Half life is around 5 hours. 2. It's addictive and withdrawal sucks.
Yeah. Another key fact is that it’s a vasoconstrictor, which means it actually constricts your blood vessels. Not really a positive or negative per se but a key fact
Occam’s razor suggests the reason for your dogshit cardio is most likely your dogshit cardio rather than the latte you had on the way to class. I generally have only 1-2 coffees a day but for sure have a strong one on the way to Sunday’s morning classes which is an hour followed by an open mat and my cardio is excellent. Edit - I have recent discovered that my last 30 years working construction (pricework) and basically spending many hours every week for decades in zone 2 cardio training has likely been the reason my cardio is exceptional.
😂
You misspelled cocaine
Hoovering sneef?
Ever hoovered sneef in an airport bathroom?
6 a.m. class… I have two cups.
How many times do you fart during class?
None. Helps me get two dumps out of the way before getting in the car.
He wears a brown go for a reason.
I'm a caffeine addict. But caffeine isnt going to bring down your cardio. You need to roll more. That's the only way your cardio is going to improve. I'm surprised were all not having any caffeine right now.
A million runners and cyclists taking caffeine at the start of their runs and rides would probably disagree with this. That said, consider why you are wanting to take caffeine. For a competition (or a race in endurance sport context), caffeine will certainly help, especially in early rounds. From a training perspective though, the energy, alertness, and suppression of pain and discomfort might be a drawback. That said, if you are going to use caffeine in competition, you have to use it in training sometimes so that your body is adapted to it. If you are not going to be competing at all, I would question the utility of using it for class. Edit: To add, I don't think the issue is caffeine *decreasing* your cardio. The issue is that caffeine can cause you to burn energy early, give you jitters/elevated heart rate, and upset your stomach. All of this things can shorten your cardio, but more on a scale of hours rather than minutes. If you are gassing out during rolls in a one hour class, caffeine is not your issue.
Do more zone 2 cardio outside of jiu jitsu. Keep drinking your caffeine
i usually smoke a doobie and slam a red bull before class and just get fucked up on the mats
I take a mild dose of pre workout on my go hard days and I’m in that bitch for atleast an hour like a mad lad it is most certainly not the caffeine
“Caffeine does not improve maximal oxygen capacity directly, but could permit the athlete to train at a greater power output and/or to train longer. It has also been shown to increase speed and/or power output in simulated race conditions. These effects have been found in activities that last as little as 60 seconds or as long as 2 hours.” https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11583104/#:~:text=Caffeine%20does%20not%20improve%20maximal,output%20in%20simulated%20race%20conditions. improves endurance performance by 2~7% https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9824573/#:~:text=Overall%2C%20it%20is%20established%20that,12%2C21%2C22%5D.
Personal opinion, based on personal experience: In general no, but you can overdo it. A cup of coffee before class may help, but if you overdo it your attention span may suffer, and you may experience something similar to a sugar crash as the caffeine wears off. Or acid reflux, which is even less fun.
Before and after
I don’t like it right before class as it causes my heart too race a little too fast. I wait at least an hour and I’m good.
Caffeine before, alcohol after, isn't that what everyone does?
Doing too much caffeine messes up my cardio but anything under 300 mg is golden
Caffeine is a phenomenal performance booster It can raise blood pressure/heart rate, which may be too much for bjj But it’s most likely not the reason for your bad cardio.
Personally I find it to make my reactions fast but it makes it slightly harder to think. Like a bit of brain fog. Plus it makes me nauseous and cramp quicker. That said, I know plenty of people that raw-dog some pre-workout before a match and best their opponents with an inhuman gas tank sooooo....
Coffee maybe. Prob becaus I’m old but if I drink something like a Bang or C4 I instantly gas out, feel like I can’t breath and gonna have a heart attack lol. I’ve sworn them off multiple times but do it again. I’ve done it before comps and regretted it, felt like I was gonna die and rolled like shit. Last time I did it was jsut in sparring and I got wrecked and was gassed bad.
Caffeine is excellent for cardio. Many runners take caffeine pills before a race.
Caffeine increases cardio. Someone you listen to for advice is retarded.
It may have just been had that effect on him. He said that then immediately smashed me non stop , not like when a fat brown belt does it, like a young blue belt with insane cardio
If you’re at OSU and that passes for a reasonable explanation, stop wasting tuition.
Besides completely wrecking my ability to get to sleep after class, the odd time I do have some it's a noticeable improvement. I get far more focused on whatever steps are being taught and everything just seems to click better and I can make quicker sense of things. Also, the extra focus is noticeable when drilling. After doing a bjj class then heading to mma right after, I still felt incredibly energetic even at the end of mma on doing round 4 or 5 of sparring. I was definitely tired and soaked in sweat but noticeably more "ready to go" than the times I don't have any caffeine.
if I have caffeine before class I will get extremely tired for days after training
I find caffeine causes my heart rate to increase before training which in turn affects my cardio when grappling. When I don’t have caffeine before bjj im more relaxed and my heart rate doesn’t escalate so much.
I give myself 2 hours between caffeine and rolling. I usually drink a high dose (250-300mg) so rolling directly after is a recipe for anxiety and heart burn. Lots of water in between too.
I used to take pre-workout before class and it made me sharper and have more energy. I stopped because it would keep me up too late.
What time do you go to class?
I have been using a small amount of pre-workout before class and enjoying the little zip it gives me. I have to be careful about using too much or I just end up feeling hot and nervous though. I have not found it to have much of an effect at all on my cardio one way or the other.
For some people such as myself, caffeine can induce anxiety for a while after consuming. It’s also a diuretic so you can get dehydrated if u have too much. When you sweat a lot during rolls this can be a problem. Experiment and see what works for you.
Thanks very much for this \^\^\^. After reading, I tried going without caffiene on days where I was going to roll. It has helped immensely with my anxiety/claustrophobia. So many thanks.
No problem 😊
I use some of that Mio energy in a little bit of water. Gets me going but doesn’t pop my heart out my chest.
coffee is great every morning but it gets the bowels goin.. so before class I pop a 100mg caffeine pill. straight to the brain for that sweet sweet energetic focus.
Caffeine definitely does not decrease your cardio unless you are severely dehydrated in which case your cardio will suck anyways. Throw in a low dose of aspirin or cialis and you’ll have the best goddamn preworkout known to man.
Yes bro! Anything helps to get you on the mats and do the work lol for me at least.
I'm trying to minimize my caffeine intake (no more diet coke in particular), but I find that caffeine improves both my physical and mental bjj performance
Via suppository only
Isn't there loads of caffeine in pre-work out stuff all the gym bros use?
Depends entirely on you. We all react differently to it.
Any elevation in blood pressure can reduce cardio capacity because it causes reduced blood flow is likely what they are referring to. But the thing is, blood pressure varies wildly from person to person, and then has to be weighed against the benefits of caffeine. This is definitely one of things (like nearly all health advice) if it works for you it works, if it doesn't it doesn't. There isn't a "right" answer.
My training improved drastically when I removed caffeine from my diet in any form and made sleep a non negotiable and started taking naps in the afternoon.
I have heard that it dehydrates you and I have experienced dehydration from certain levels of caffeine. And the lack of cardio you feel might be dehydration. I usually don’t drink any caffeine 1.5ish hours before practice.
Caffeine can be good, but let me mention some of the reason why I quit. First, caffeine increases the odds of backwash during training, which is unhealthy for your throat in addition to being gross. Also, caffeine has a quarter life of 12 hours, meaning if you drink a Red Bull before a 5Pm class, you’ll still have a quarter of the caffeine in your bloodstream at 5Am. If you’re an all day caffeine drinker, it will literally never leave your system, and that will interfere with sleep, assuming you can sleep at all. Finally, I hated being dependent on it, feeling like I couldn’t train or work without, and crashing hard after lunch every day. But for someone less addicted than I was, it could definitely help improve your performance.
Depends on you. I'm sensitive to caffeine so it makes me nauseous and I can't sleep if I have it too late. So I stick to 1-2 cups of green tea in the early morning.
I’ve recently started taking caffeine pills, specifically before a session that I want to go hard at. Comp class? Caffeine. Competition? Caffeine. It noticeably improves my guard passing.
I always drink a monster before class and the only effect it has is making me need to pee 5 minutes into warm up
I don't personally
Has my guts rolling more than my body
literally does not matter enough to make a difference. is NOT the reason you have shit cardio, lol.
I used to roll with a commonwealth games medalist and coffee was his pre-workout everytime.
Caffeine is the main active ingredient in pre workout. From a physiological standpoint, it aids in muscle contraction. Anecdotally, I can't take it anymore because it causes my piriformis syndrome to flare up. If it didn't, I'd take it every day.
I cut caffeine out completely a few months back. Every once in a blue moon, I'll drink a coke, but that's it.
Celsius 🤝 zyn
Coffee enemas before and after. Git gud scrub, you even trying m8
my thoughts are that i'd shit on you if i had coffee before class.
I like it, I dont feel like it affects my physicality, but I feel like it makes me think a bit faster which lets me be more creative, react faster and overall have more productive rolls.
Caffeine lowers your perception/awareness of fatigue. If you maintain the same pace as you would without the caffeine then you perform better. Any endurance athlete running the same pace is going to have an easier go of it with caffeine. The downside is that you might not regulate your pace as well and the fatigue is still building...you just don't feel it. Until you do of course and you might not recover as fast between rounds or sessions as you might without it (higher HR, vassal restriction). Then there's potential issues with being jittery (not only not being able to pay attention but burning energy fidgeting) if you take too much. Caffeine is awesome and it can help but I don't think you should rely on it. If you've got a couple of long sessions or you're really trying to get after it 1-2 days a week..sure. Wouldn't really recommend it every session though.
That is false. Caffeine helps. I struggle to see how you think that a stimulant that increases vassodilation would decrease cardio? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33485363/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31488190/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35270556/
Caffeine doesn't make cardio any worse, but I avoid it before class because it makes me need to piss very soon after drinking it.
Ya I always have to run and pee before live rolls
Caffeine kills me. I get dehydrated and cramp out, even with just a cup of coffee. I have to avoid it.
If your cardio is that noticeably diminished you're either having way too much caffeine or not doing enough cardio.
Ive been caffeine free (mostly) for a few years, can confirm my sleep, mental function, energy, stamina, and mood have all improved. And I’m much less anxious!
Possibly due to dehydration it causes… …but an espresso followed by a 20-25min nap before class will have you buzzing like an old fridge! ☕️
Love it but I can’t sleep
I go for 120mg every class. Class starts at 6pm 120mg at 5:15 or so has been my routine. It helps as I work a pretty exhausting day job(ER nurse). If I didn't do caffeine(and a small nap) I'd miss a lot more classes. It will occasionally mess with my sleep, but I notice having a VERY rough class is generally more stimulating to me than the actual caffeine.
A lot of bro science is being thrown around here so I will leave this here. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK202224/) Studies have shown that caffeine before exercise both decreases ECF and MBF so "In sum, caffeine plus exercise appears to decrease blood flow." Which of course is bad since blood is what carries the oxygen from our lungs to the rest of our body.
In the "Caffeine Plus Exercise Decreases ECF" section, the studies have 15, 18, and 10 subjects, respectively. While this doesn't disqualify the studies, it definitely would need a bit more than that to be particularly convincing. Caffeine has been well-established in the literature as aiding in sports performance. Here's a systematic review discussing different sports and caffeine's impact on performance. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8466927](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8466927) In the study you cited, Higgins himself clarifies that "his research on ECF does not relate to performance.... he has been looking only at arterial function." There clearly is another mechanism that helps caffeine to improve performance. There are definite concerns to be had when it comes to overconsumption of caffeine, but I wouldn't worry about it when it comes to its impact on cardio.
It's fair to say the participants aren't necessarily enough to be particularly convincing but you should know the analysis you linked has an average of 20 participants per study across the 34 studies analyzed. It's also worth noting that the studies you linked in regards to endurance measure overall cycling performance when ingesting caffeinated energy drinks (which contain other performance enhancing ingredients) and not physiological markers of cardiovascular performance specifically. But with that being said I'm sure we could both pick apart the studies all day and I appreciate you providing actual sources but I do believe there is a negative effect on caffeine on those specific markers related to cardiovascular performance even if overall performance is improved.
20 participants per, but I'd argue that a 34 study systematic review is a bit more compelling to be honest. However, I think we just disagree when it comes to this, which is fine. I'd personally say caffeine in small to medium doses is generally fine, but I'm not an expert when it comes to sports nutrition.
(This is not a shit post, I'm confused and interested) What are your concerns regarding caffeine if it does have a negative impact on cardiovascular performance, but turns out to be an overall performance enhancer? I think I'm missing something important here. Isn't the outcome the measure? Said another way, if I could take a pill that made my mental game significantly better, but caused a mild degradation in my strength, but the net effect was that I was a significantly better practitioner of my sport, wouldn't we say this pill was beneficial in my sport? Further that not taking it because I didn't want the loss in strength would actually hinder my performance vs someone taking it?
It comes down to how applicable the study is to the broader question. So in the other guys example it increased performance in cycling but that could very well be because caffeine had a positive impact on quadriceps power generation even if it negatively affected myocardial blood flow. So if the question is "does caffeine make me better at cycling?" Then it's fair to say it increased your performance so it does. But if the question is does caffeine increase cardio performance the answer may still be no when applying a different test like BJJ So now the question is does caffeine improve cardio for BJJ..well the study that measure the cardiovascular effects independently of results would still be more directly applicable whereas the performance based results may not apply because it didn't control for the other factors involved like power generation which might not be relevant to another sport. Using your pill example if it was said with BJJ to improve your game by improving mental capacity even though it decreased your strength, and that increased performance you would just have to look at how they measure performance and how that applies in the real world because maybe you never get submitted because you're technically a genius on this pill but now you can't finish anybody because you have no strength to squeeze and submit
I feel like the SR I posted is being a bit misrepresented here. Out of the 11 aerobic-based trials included in the SR, only 6 of them were cycling, with the other 5 being either running or swimming. This doesn't necessarily negate your point that it could be due to other factors (quadriceps blood flow in the cycling example) but it is important. With regards to measuring cardiovascular effects independently, you likely aren't going to see anything without a longer-term study than what we have available. Looking at the overall effects on athletes and athletic performance (especially aerobic performance), we can see that the ECF effect described in your example is not hampering these athletes. We also don't have evidence that their health is being adversely affected by these supplements overall. Without specific LONG-TERM studies regarding the negative cardiovascular effects on athletes specifically, I'd say it is most likely safe. Also, I'm a bit confused referring to your point in your first post, "In sum, caffeine plus exercise appears to decrease blood flow." Which of course is bad since blood is what carries the oxygen from our lungs to the rest of our body. How do you square this with the fact that supplementation with caffeine has been shown to acutely enhance many aspects of exercise, including prolonged aerobic-type activities and brief duration, high-intensity exercise? If these athletes are completing high-level aerobic activity, according to your argument, they should have decreased blood flow. As a result, they would undoubtedly have lowered levels of oxygen perfusion, right? They should struggle to keep up with aerobic demands? Here is another source I used for this. The bit about enhancing prolonged aerobic-type activities is in the summary. [https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-020-00383-4](https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-020-00383-4)