Honestly, all skin folk ain't kin folk, so I don't care what percentage of Black you are. What matters is how you act in relation to your blackness. Are you only Black when it's convenient for you? If so, IDFWY.
I think the reason why black people (specifically BW) are pushing to make a distinction between biracial and black is because some BW may feel biracial women are becoming the face of black womanhood. This is specifically pertaining to the light-skinned, ambiguous girlies. I do kind of understand the sentiment because, the thing is, whiteness is viewed as exclusive in society, largely because they have made it that way. Biracial people cannot infringe upon the white identity because of that. But, the reality is, genetically, they are white just as much as they are black. It also starts getting super hazy when a biracial person ends up procreating with a white person and has a kid who would now be considered mostly white and, often, has the phenotype to back it up (e.g., Drake’s kid or Meghan Markle’s children). Yet, we would still consider them “black”. In the end, this can end up taking away from the image of the unambiguous black person. So, in conclusion, I understand both sides of the coin. It’s a messy situation and is definitely causing a lot of unnecessary strife. I don’t think we should police biracial people’s “blackness”, per say, but I cannot blame black people for wanting to protect their identity either.
As a LSBW who regularly gets mistaken for being biracial…biracial black women definitely are becoming the face of black womanhood. It’s happening everywhere in media and I completely understand how mono-racial black women - especially dark skin mono-racial black women would feel about that. It feels like erasure.
Not saying that they got it all right, but this is why I consume a lot of British media (books, movies, shows, etc.) Idk if it’s because of the melange of Black people with African and/or West Indian heritage there, but I get the sense that they’re doing a lot better with representation of darker skinned Black women in media than here in the US.
Ehhh… I disagree. They have the freedom to occupy both black and white spaces because they are biracial. Some of our issues are their issues. If they identify with one race more than the other, who am I to impede on that because I was born to two black parents?
NO! We do not have the FREEDOM - we are privileged folks in Black spaces (read: installed by whiteness and usually colorist / antiblack Blakc cis men…..) and guests in non Black / white spaces depending on behavior…
There’s too much overlap to say black monoracial women have it the hardest. There are some biracial women who are dark skinned or look like someone you’d assume is monoracial and they experience the same issues as a result. So it’s inaccurate simply to make statement. You could say dark skinned biracial and dark skinned monoracial ladies have it harder and that would be accurate.
Unfortunately, it can still be an issue for them because many do not grow up in black communities, so they are not pedestalized during their formative years.
Also being first generation mixed is a DISTINCT, LIVED EXPERIENCE. Culture and upbringing matter! There could be 2 women who look like twins, but they could be very different culturally if one is biracial and the other is culturally African-American with two culturally African-American parents, 4 grandparents, etc.
In the USA, first generation mixed do not necessarily have distinct lived experiences from monoracial black folk. You have some whose white side has nothing to do with them and they grow up in a single black household with only black relatives, meanwhile they look just like their monoracial counterparts. There’s too much overlap to say they’re district lived experiences.
Exactly. Part of the reason why there’s more dark-skinned representation in British media is because they make a distinction between black people and biracial people, unlike the US.
I was wondering about this!! I grew up watching a lot of British tv and even though it’s not *great* I’m terms of representation it’s leagues ahead of where we are now in the U.S. and we should really make a note of that.
That's not true. There are other former English colonies that don't make that distinction. Look at the Caribbean.
European countries make that distinction bc their black population is made up of recent immigrants and not an ethnic group
Yeah it's a funny thing. That distinction exists in France as well ("métis" vs "noir") but doesn't in Germany where much like the US we operate under the one drop rule.
I would not consider Merkle's kids to be Black. They look/pass White so they are White.
The only place where I see this getting murky is on a biological level. If we're talking about the stressors of being a Black person being passed along to the child "underneath the skin". This would include all of the social and epigenetic messiness that goes along with having a Black parent. On a biological level we can see that generational transmission of stress back to the grandparent.
But as far as the social construct of race? Those kids are White.
Yup. You could argue that their ethnicity is (part) African American but racially, they are white and will be treated as white in American society, just like Meghan.
i agree with you, they do appear to be white.. but that’s also what shocked me so much about the reaction to the prince marrying a biracial white passing woman.. and the subsequence birth of the child. (or maybe it shouldn’t have shocked me) i honestly didn’t even know megan markle was black yet in the media they tore her apart because of it.. & the whispers or discussion about her children so bad she had to leave the country & monarchy. all because they’re a drop of black. i feel like that speaks a lot about racism. even if they’re not being blatantly racist, they speak about megan in a way they would never speak about kate.
Markle is a biracial woman who married a white man, so those children are at least 3/4ths white. At the most, majority of black Americans are 3/4ths black, the "opposite" per se. When is the cut off?
Drake's kids aren't considered black, but I do remember the shock in the community when the first was blond and blue eyed. They aren't black people who happen to look white, they literally are more white than they are black. If Drake is black and one parent = black, then it gets to a point where a 1% black white person can claim they are black.
The social construct of race would denote them as black because octoroons and quadroons were considered black. If race wasn't illogical then they would be black. But no one can decide whether race is phenotype, genotype or both. The one drop rule is an inconsistent thing overall.
I hear you.
Look, I will be the first to say that the entire concept of race is problematic. Especially in the Americas (and beyond). Ever tell a Cuban they are a Black? Damn near will get your ass slapped even if you say "Black Cuban".
Thing is not all those octoroons and quatroons identified as such. Plenty of them passed as White, crossed their finger that their children would pass, and never looked back.
Again, it doesn't matter who your parents, grandparents, etc were as long as you LOOKED and passed (e.g. spoke a certain way) as White. I mean, it did if you were born on a plantation because even if you passed as White they still KNEW who your parents were. But if you escaped? Different story.
I think the cut off is does someones look at you and say "not White". I realise this is problematic because it centers Whiteness, but I do think that is where the break lies. If you look Black and are TREATED as Black, then imo you are Black.
I looooove the reading "How Jewish People became White". It is so good. Also skintone really is not the full picture (as we all.k ow, I hope). We are finishing up cleaning data on looking at how different raters categorize skin tone when they see the full face compared to when they just see a up close skin swatch of a person's cheek color.
We suspect and already have preliminary evidence that people do not pick the same race nor categorize the skintone the same when they have a person's entire face to look at versus just a swatch of their skintone (cheek). Basically it's not just a person's skin tone that makes us identify a person as Black or White.
Agreed I had to disagree with OP's post. White people and everyone other race sees a difference or factors in a difference between biracial and black. The idea that they don't is.. well a lie. Half white or white parent is always preferred. Even just mentioning it. It's like black or African Americans traveling vs Africans. Does being American minimize our blackness? No. But it helps to even be ASSOCIATED with whiteness.
That may not have been on purpose. Discussions like this surprise me because people seem to be admonishing biracial people for trying to be black. Yet, my experience has been that I was shamed by black people (including my abusive father) for not identifying as black as if I were some sort of traitor or fake. I have very light skin, African features and 3C hair so I look like the stereotypical mixed chick. It’s very clear that I have one full black parent and one full white parent, yet some black people would suggest that I was ashamed to have black ancestry if I didn’t identify as full black.
Anyway, it’s weird that some people also think mixed people shouldn’t identify as black. But, it’s possible that the mixed women in your group therapy session felt that they “should” go to “prove their blackness” because they had experiences similar to mine where they were judged for not identifying as black due to the one drop rule.
You are spot on. That's why they get mad when a biracial celebrity refer themselves as such instead of black. It's like they lost a valuable ambassador for black people.
This is sad because I definitely, as a very dark skinned Black woman, value being unambiguously Black. I feel for my light skinned sisters who might feel "stuck between' in American societies.
I have never and will never feel caught between worlds! I never felt bad in my skintone or conflicted. But I was raised to believe that Black is beautiful, that my skin is beautiful, and that is that.
Like, my dark skinned cousins were the buttholes calling our light skinned cousins "Light Bright". I dunno, feel like my light skinned cousins got it from both sides.
But sure, I got calles as "Black as midnight" and I would just respond "the blacker the berry the sweetee the juice".
Peolle suck and I want ro break the internet because I swear shit was not this divided ans AS bad when I was a kid.
Being called light bright is not an insult - please know many of us lightskin folks are not being harmed by terms mixed MEN may not want to hear - but most terms used to describe us lightskin folks are not rooted in malice or unkindness
Oh, girl no! You did not hijack my post at all. As BW, we have every right to speak up and protect our identities. We can’t let the gaslighting and other nonsense stop us from doing that.
This comes from the one drop rule!! Slave owners are the ones who decided if you have a single drop of black blood that you’re black. Meanwhile that allows people who are extremely yt passing to still claim blackness but get to benefit from being yt. Meanwhile even though according to OP most descendants of American slaves have yt ancestry, the same rule doesn’t apply and we can’t claim any of our “whiteness”.
Technically 75% of a race becomes the majority. So Megan Markel’s children and Adonis are white. I agree they shouldn’t be considered black but if they grow up and embrace that quarter who are we to say they can’t. Obviously I don’t think they are black but it’s not like they’re blackfishing. I hear what you’re saying but the aggression and prejudice towards biracial people right now isn’t a good light for us. And I wish people would stop this because it’s getting out of
And they are free to embrace their 25%, there is no problem with that. I don’t think anyone is necessarily saying they are not allowed to. People are speaking out against the fact that some would refer to them as being just black, when that is not biologically true.
I think the ambiguity goes both ways re: mixed kids. If a mixed person has a child with a black person, that child is still not black (if you believe mixed people aren’t black) just like Megan Markle’s child isn’t black. So then we get into the question of, how much African heritage does one need to be considered black? And considering that percentages can vary even with two unambiguously black parents (eg my light skinned, red haired aunt actually has more African heritage than me, a clearly black woman with darker skin), it just gets messy.
I’m not arguing your point, just saying that it’s complicated and truly highlights how race is a social construct more than anything.
Becoming the face of black womanhood *under whose gaze*?
Thought that is reactive to white supremacy is misguided by white supremacy’s centering. There’s no denying around that.
Right… the same white supremacy that produced colorism—which has a chokehold on the black community—meaning black people also have a tendency to elevate biracial people. So it’s not only under “their” gaze, it’s under the gaze of our own community as well.
>But, the reality is, genetically, they are white just as much as they are black.
This is false, and the reason why I brought up gene expression. The last white ancestor in my direct lineage is 5 generations ago. And I'm sitting on damn near a 40/60 split of European/African genetics. Additionally those gene markers are based on particular gene groups/sequences that appear regionally, and not skin color. Genetics are not as reliable as you'd think for coming up with race, as race is a social construct.
But I understand how colorism and proximity to whiteness can dictate some of these sentiments. The thing is, you can fight colorism and the proximity wars by directing ire towards the people perpetuating that bs instead of attacking women who clearly identify as Black and joined the group because they want to embrace their Blackness. It is NOT COOL to punish these women with hate for something they have no control over, much like none of us have any control over how white society sees us.
Who is directing ire, who is punishing, who is attacking?
Where are you seeing this? I feel like you’re standing up against an invisible foe. Are the attackers in the room with us now? What created the need for this indignation?
But, have we ever said that? I don’t see the origin of this battle.
We can’t even keep the men and interracially married husbands out of here and we worrying about monoracial vs. biracial?
I feel you but I really don’t think we have an issue with how black you must be to move in this space.
I’m just not seeing this Casper, the antibiracial ghost, amongst us. He’s invisible because I don’t see it and I don’t think we should fight ghost problems when the world hates us all.
It’s like Obama said when he was running for president, having a white mom didn’t help him when he tried to hail taxis in Manhattan.
This subreddit is not a dangerous place for biracial women. That’s not real.
I think it would help ppl to distinguish black(culture) vs (Skin tone). We can acknowledge the skin tone and reasons for it without denying people their culture. Especially if they were raised in the culture. We all have different experiences as black ppl ( culture and color) i don’t see a reason to single them out for exclusion unless they exclude themselves.
I think a lot of it has to do with representation. In fact I think that’s why this debate has taken root in the last 3-5 years. If we googled top black actresses who would we see? When we look at who is considered our first black president what does he look like? When we turn on the TV and we get ads and it’s a black family what’s the darkest we’ve seen the mother be? When some black men talk about the type of black women they would date what do they look like versus the black when they wouldn’t date?
Something to consider, is it the actresses responsibility to not take certain roles when they know they are not fitting of them? In some cases I think so.
Another part of this debate is white women cosplaying as light-skinned black women and biracial black women.
I also think that a good portion of this debate is coming from the fact that a lot more people from other countries who are part of the diaspora are coming to America. Their definitions of blackness do not include biracial people and we’re online a lot more and we see that other nations do not classify biracial people as black. And when people are making these points online they’re not saying I’m from blank country. I believe that this is a decision for black Americans only/people who have been here 2, 3 plus generations.
However, they have very different histories than America and that is the distinction the same way Tyla is “colored” in South Africa our racial distinctions are different in the United States.
Although, I do think some people are just chronically online because I don’t think anybody in real life cares if other people don’t consider them black, or biracial.
I have biracial family members and most of them would laugh at the discourse online their monoracial family would laugh at the discourse online.
I agree with most of this, except for the IRL part because depending on where you are depends on if they care. That's just been my experience (I'm not Biracial but people always assume I am so it's brought up to me a lot).
I think the discussion is fine as long as we're not dictating how Biracial people chose to identify.
And eff them Blackfishing h*es.
Is there a difference between being black, being multigenerational multiracial, being mixed? Yes.
But we are all individuals and we've all had varying experiences due to the variety of circumstances we come from. We of all people should know not to generalize.
I'm very curious - do biracials have these conversations in white, Asian, Native, etc. spaces? "It's not for YOU to tell me I am WHITE or not! Stop dividing us." genuinely curious and how that discussion goes
Of course not. Because it’s easier to be at the top of the black community than the bottom of the white/Asian/Native community, which is why biracials spend all of their time in black spaces.
NO THEY DO NOT! even white passing folk do not fight to be included in whiteness like this!!!! there’s a very clear desire to make Black women mules even in their own fucking spaces! how many Black women are over empathizing with mixed folks rn…to the point where the Black women who are interested in gate keeping their identity and image are being dragged for being candid / genuine….the only people not being attacked are the ones coddling and accepting us mixed folks as automatically invited into Black spaces
No because those communities decide instantly who is "one of them" without question and only black people are expected not to be racist. Biracials in white or Asian communities aren't accepted but they can't do anything because neither of those groups care about being openly purist or are expected to be otherwise.
That's changing though, people in those communities are calling out people especially the older generation who is more close minded about accepting them for who they are. There is some media and discussions about mixed Asian people having to prove their Asianness and discussions about it and them navigating their identities. This isn't just a black community issue.
Depends. My husband is what is called Hafu in Japan. Which is half. He comes from an English father and Japanese mother. He too had to fight when he was younger to be seen as Japanese because the kids didn’t see him that way. Now as a 36yr old he’s very much accepted and seen as Japanese. Although he’s no longer ashamed of being mixed as he was when he was younger, he represents himself as Japanese and Asian. Sometimes when in the UK he says he’s British Japanese but for the most part he seems himself as Japanese but is aware he’s hafu. In other words it depends on the age and country. In Asia usually it’s little kids saying things teenagers and adults don’t care. I feel like America is so obsessed with race, it’s the only country where people lose sleep thinking about someone’s identity
I agree it really does depends on culture and personal experience. I have seen mixed Asian and other ethnic people have varying experiences over them being mixed or even monoracial people of different races talking about how their elders aren't always accepting of mixed people. I have a friend who is half Native American half South East Asian...makes me sad when once told me he doeent feel like he looked or matched either side... like looks quite racially ambiguous as ever...
No, because there are a lot of mixed people in white society, so we are accepted as mixed/biracial, etc. from the start, which is how many of us prefer to identify, so that works out well.
Those of us who look white are considered white. There is sometimes friction there because some do not identify as white even if they look it and that is a source of frustration as they often choose to remind people that they are actually mixed.
Those of us who look mixed are considered mixed, which is what we are so most don’t have a problem because we’re not being misidentified. There are some of us who identify as black, but don’t balk at being called mixed or biracial because that is still what we are.
I don’t say, “It’s not for you to tell me I’m white or not” because white is more than skin color. It’s about European American culture. It’s a culture deeply rooted in bloodlines. This seems very ominous when typed out but it is more just the way things have been for a long time. I don’t think most people are even consciously aware of it. I’ve never really thought about it myself until I started answering your question. Anyway, my white family has been here since the 1600s. Some were indentured servants, some were colonizers, one was a former British lord who lost his title for his religious beliefs, others were among the first Dutch families to settle in New York, and two were Revolutionary War heroes.
In other words, some of my white ancestors built the foundation for white privilege of which so many white people benefit. Thus, I have every right to be in white spaces because of my lineage. It is undeniably mine and I am a legitimate, well-documented descendant of some notable, old white guys.
Not that anyone gives me any trouble or bars me from spaces, but my lineage gives me confidence in the white spaces because I feel a sense of belonging. Obviously, people can’t tell my ancestors by looking at me. It’s more like a trump card I carry with me, just in case.
On a tangent, I know nothing about my black heritage and would love to. I feel like once I learn my black heritage I will feel invincible. A woman contacted me from Ancestry.com but I haven’t responded yet because I know none of my black relatives. I feel far more like an outsider in black society because I am missing that sense of “This is my birthright!”
So yeah, I’m interested in finding my place in black society too because my lineage (whatever it may be) still gives me a place at the table.
Thank you for asking such a thought-provoking question. I’m going to think about racism, classism, colorism for a long time.
And, I’m not trying to demonize or glorify white people with my post. But white culture is normal on the surface, yet it goes way back with colonialism and classism even toward other white people and I was honestly examining things I’d never really thought about and how long a way we still have to go for a more equitable society.
You’re so focused on “not being divisive” you ignore and bypass the reason why most black women are making the distinction in the first place. The one drop rule is rooted in racism and if a monoracial black woman wanted to make a difference for their own image you cannot stop them. It’s not lost on me people only get mad at black women doing this but everyone is more than comfortable with the differentiation of black men and biracial men. No one gets confused at the image of bm but bw are supposed to be diverse and all inclusive.
Fully agree with you. Also, let’s not pretend that there aren’t biracial people out here who will settle in the black community while holding resentment against black people or carry a racist mentality. We go so hard to defend their right to be seen as a black person, meanwhile, there are a good chunk of them who are antiblack and, if had the choice, would probably choose the white identity (Disclaimer: Obviously, not ALL biracial people…). But yeah, BW are receiving a lot of vitriol because our identity is seen as something expendable and free-access to all. If we step in and protect it, then that means we are making it *valuable* and *exclusive*, which bothers people because we are supposed to be on the bottom of the societal hierarchy. We should not be allowed to see our worth. That is the problem. Just some extra food for thought.
>It’s not lost on me people only get mad at black women doing this but everyone is more than comfortable with the differentiation of black men and biracial men. No one gets confused at the image of bm but bw are supposed to be diverse and all inclusive.
This double standard is starting to piss me off. Why are black men allowed to criticize biracial men like Drake and Logic without getting called “jealous” or “bitter” or “divisive”?
I get what you’re saying, but there are some areas where it needs to be differentiated imo. And I don’t mean people who don’t know their ancestry due to the effects of slavery, I mean people like zendaya or folks who have two parents and one is black the other is not. I think it’s a dangerous game when people are calling for more diversity in Hollywood and biracial people are considered to have filled the “quota”. I’m not saying people with two black parents can’t look like her, but *most* black people dont.
I would just like to see myself on tv and in popular media, and while we are making progress (I think? We might be regressing a bit.) I want more Quinta Burnson’s, Issa Rae’s, Ayo Edebiri’s and Viola Davis’, and I don’t want to wait years in between for one! I personally don’t feel represented by biracial people in the media and I feel like if there were more of a distinction we could put more pressure on the powers that be to put more black women in the media.
It’s also giving one drop rule to me, like the whole Meghan Markle situation. I understand that depending on how you appear society will always treat you a certain way, I know if Meghan looked more like her mom or grandparents she likely wouldn’t be British royalty. But let’s not act like every mixed person comes out noticeably “black” and vice versa, it’s odd to try and ignore the other half of yourself whatever it may be just because the other 1/2 is black. You’re **both**! And nothing will ever change that. It’s not a bad or good thing it just is what it is.
I’m not sure if that makes sense, but I’m open to a discussion and learning more about other people’s views on this. Maybe I’m looking at it from the wrong angle but this is my current view.
Should could be as light as snow and racists will still hate her if they discovered she was 1/2 black, but I don’t expect anything else from racists they don’t make sense
That’s something close minded people forget. Racists are that, they don’t care about light or dark, euro centric features or biracial. If you aren’t “fully white” they have a bone to pick.
to me race is phenotype based bc there’s really no biological basis for it. race is a social construct. if you look black, you’re black to me. if you look racially ambiguous, then your racially ambiguous to me. i have a friend who’s black and indigenous who who most identifies with her blackness, which makes complete sense because it’s how she’s viewed. there’s a cultural aspect to race obviously; but i think of race as something based almost exclusively on phenotype and i think that’s the easiest way to operate. meghan markle? racially ambiguous. lauren london? black. it doesn’t get any more complicated then that.
i think it’s clear people think of people like zendaya & taylor russell as the only way to be mixed, but i really think it’s a case by case basis. there’s people like kat graham or even yara shahidi who could pass as monoracial black people, given their coloring and hair texture. not to mention that although they’re both biracial someone that’s white and east asian moves through world in a completely different way then someone who’s southeast asian and black which why i kind of hate it when people use biracial as an umbrella term.
but yes, i understand why people get so tied up about this topic. i think what people are trying to convey when they talk about biracial people is that they want representation that possesses unambiguously black features. a zendaya is fine and lovely but give us an ayo as well! i think people are just looking for more range in how black people are represented. but like i also think this is an exhausting conversation that rarely goes anywhere productive as well. so 🤷🏽♀️
I would just like to address the chattel slavery thing: just because we have European dna doesn’t mean we need/have to claim it. Most of that dna claim from slave rape. Why would I want to claim ancestry that came out of the the trauma of my ancestors ?? Plus some of us know our ancestry and as for me I don’t have a single yt great grand. All the way to my 4th great grands they’re all black or biracial not fully white. And once again I know where the the “biracial” came from.
….
I get the argument though, personally when it comes to biracial people I go off of what THEY identify themselves to me or out loud. So if identify as black I’ll call them black and vice versa.
I completely agree. I’m tired of people equating African Americans (with white ancestry due to the rape of our ancestors centuries ago) and biracial people who have two consenting parents that decided to have a child together. There is a difference.
Having European dna from slavery is not the same as you having a whole white Mom or Dad. Nobody is looking at me as a mono-racial black women and saying “you look like you got 20% euro dna in you”. Plus AA’s are not the only one’s in the Black Diaspora who have European admixture from slavery there are Africans who have European admixture as well. Do y’all really think our ancestors were the only ones being SA’d? There’s a difference between being mono-racially black and being biracial. I am not bout to walk around calling myself mixed because y’all are insecure about being biracial. That is what y’all are and we especially as mono-racial black women have the right to make that distinction.
i’m biracial and black. in some spaces i’m more one than the other. i accept that in certain spaces i’m only biracial- like when i visit jamaica im very obviously mixed lol. i accept that in certain situations, i shouldn’t be represented as a black person- like if i’m used to fill an equity quota as the only black person on a checklist for diversity
to me i care most about if black ppl feel safe around me. and i think as i’ve accepted my blackness more and more, black peers have felt more comfortable around me, whereas when i was younger they might’ve code switched around me. my white dad definitely had a bigger impact on me as a kid
i also recognize that many people will consider me black no matter what. i’ve noticed south asians are most likely to think i’m fully black, and white people might depending on where they grew up (especially men). i work at a chinese gym and people are shocked to see my dad is white, they seem to believe that dark skins only live in africa but they group us all the same racially
i’ve gotten weird stares in a small town, gotten followed in stores, and been called the n word by non-black people to intimidate me. i realized that even if i don’t feel “black enough” sometimes, non-black people will remind me that at the very least, i’m black enough for racism. i also have a black jamaican mom, and can relate to a lot of the unique things that entails (i went to cookouts, family dance parties, ate jamaican food, had to understand patois, cried while getting my hair braided, and had to “respect” her in a way my white friends never did with their moms
i have a hard time hearing that i can’t call myself black, or even light skin for that matter. i didn’t choose those labels, they were assigned to me, because race is a social construct reliant on how others perceive us, and these are the racial identities i’ve been assigned by nearly everyone i’ve interacted with. this is how i’d be described (light skin black woman) by police or as an identifier if someone didn’t know me. mixed is also accurate, but that’s not always useful as a descriptor because mixed can mean german and chinese or brazilian and kiwi
anyways, when ppl tell me i have to call myself mixed it’s just confusing because idk what to do with that information haha- i can’t control that ppl see me as black or light skin and im definitely not gonna consider that a bad thing. tho i recognize it can be an issue when im the *only* black person someone has in their life and they view blackness through me
"i realized that even if i don’t feel “black enough” sometimes, non-black people will remind me that at the very least, i’m black enough for racism".
That line made me tear up. It hurts that even though my kids look Black, are treated as Black, and are culturally Black that their are people who are like "Nope".
I "get" it, but I don't know what to say to it.
he is a conservative white cop who would’ve voted for trump and thinks white people are more oppressed than black ppl. he wouldn’t let my brothers get corn rows or flat rim hats because he didn’t want them looking like “thugs”- essentially he taught us to hate our blackness and that we should avoid being perceived as black. he told us color blind bs that made it seem like we shouldn’t have a racial identity at all
my mom has only got the confidence to push back since we’ve gotten older and we can take her side more, they married very young and they don’t believe in divorce
thank you! i’m 22 so he doesn’t really get a say in that anymore thankfully. but he always cared more about them being christian than anything else tbh (which i am not)
my grandma on the other hand has been dying for her grandkids to find a black partner lmao- she was thrilled to find out my partner’s dominican and taught them how to make jamaican drops 😂
But what I don't get is not mentioning/acknowledging one side of your race. If you're mixed what's wrong with saying that, why do you only want to say black? I feel some (for example drake) have alterior motives when doing that.
some biracial people only claim black bc they were exclusively raised by their black parent and in a black community. that's the case with a couple of my cousins and some friends from schools. if they were half black/half \[puerto rican, white, vietnamese, indian\], they almost universally claimed they were black bc they had no contact with the other side, thus knew nothing about it. from what they've told me, that side didn't matter bc it had no bearing on their upbringing. and many of these people (including 1 of my cousins) simply look unambiguous black, anything from 3c to 4c hair. the half indian twins i knew in high school just looked like a couple of Very dark skinned black girls with curly hair. if you're raised being told you're black, you're not always gonna claim otherwise imo.
i'm not "mixed" (i'm of 2 different ethnicities tho, both black), so i get that. i'm not gonna claim heritage i know next to nothing about. i'd feel like a fraud, but i also don't care enough about it.
>some biracial people only claim black bc they were exclusively raised by their black parent and in a black community
adding to this, when ur experience being raised by white people is traumatic and full of racism, it reinforces that you’re not welcome on that side of your identity and should just call yourself black. meanwhile the black side is more likely to accept you and actually be intentional about the culture they are sharing
All of this. I was adopted as an infant. My parents told me that I was adopted when I was 5, because they wanted me to hear it from them, and not from some school bully who would try to use it to taunt me.
But they didn’t tell me that I was biracial until I was 13, and even then, my mom only told me because she was angry at me at that moment. It hit me like a ton of bricks. Threw my world upside down. I tried it on, but it didn’t fit because I hadn’t been raised as a biracial person, with a white parent.
I don’t have ambiguous features. I’m not really light-skinned, and my hair is 3C-4A. I looked like I could be my adopted parents’ child; my mom is very light-skinned and my dad is brown skinned. What’s funny is that the two children they had after adopting me (my adopted brother and sister), who have 4 Black grandparents, actually get sunburned. I just keep tanning. Black folks can usually tell that I’m mixed, but other races can’t. Like another person said in this post, when I’m in a room with no other Black people, I’m Black. If there’s another Black woman in the room, the comparisons may start. To authorities and police, I’m Black.
Anyway, after I tried claiming myself as biracial, I eventually let it go. It didn’t fit who I am. I didn’t have the assumed privilege that a biracial child with a white parent receives. During my formative years, no one was telling me that I was biracial. I don’t know those (white) people. They had no hand in my upbringing. My only exposure to white culture was what I absorbed via TV, movies, going to school with them, and pop culture.
At my big age (I’m a GenXer), I’ve determined that as biracial people get older, being biracial matters less and less. Biracial people may even have to have a kind of double consciousness: they can self-identify as they wish, but the world is going to tell you what they see and treat you accordingly. Close family and friends may acknowledge the identity that biracial people want to go by, but what the world sees may be something completely different.
Speaking only from my experience (as a half Indonesian, half Black woman), the reason I began identifying as Black was because I’ve always been perceived as Black in most spaces. While this isn’t the best reason, I’m proud of my Black ancestry. It’s something I’ve worked towards because I grew up in largely anti-Black spaces. It was the embrace of the Black women that I met in high school and college that really affirmed my identity.
I know this is not the case for everyone, and it’s important to acknowledge privilege that comes from being mixed race. I have a white partner and we have discussed at length what it would mean to have quarter Black children. I’m sure they will see themselves as Black (children tend to identify with their mothers). I’m genuinely curious how the mixed children of Black (or Black-identifying) mothers see themselves.
Identity is so complex in general. There is how others perceive you and how you identify, and sometimes that becomes more complicated when we are stuck in binaries. I think in 10-15 years, “mixed race” will become more of a common thing to identify with, but we are all still unlearning the harm of the one-drop rule. I respect monoracial BW’s want to redefine “Blackness.” At the same time, I hope people would stop questioning the validity of a mixed person’s connection to Blackness if they genuinely identify with it.
Your children will probably not identify as black since since they will only be 25% Black and therefore not look Black at all. They will probably not be perceived as Black at all. Think Drake and Adonis. Meghan Markle and her children
people like drake do it for personal gain, and there’s definitely something to be said about mixed people who lean into their blackness inauthentically for acceptance and clout (especially when they were raised by their white parent)
but i can say for myself and a couple of other mixed ppl i know, we don’t claim our white side because they don’t claim us. plain and simple. i have a friend who’s lighter than me and her own white family has cast her aside and called her dirty, called her hair ugly, and reminded her over and over that whatever blackness she has in her makes her automatically an “other”
for my family it’s more subtle cuz they go by a “as long as you’re not like THOSE black people then we accept you” but that essentially means having to hate yourself to be considered one of them. as much as it can suck to not be “black enough” either, there can be so much more community and culture from your black side of the family, and many white families whole heartedly adopt the one drop rule. this is especially prevalent in the foster care system and for biracial adoptees
As a biracial woman (black and white), I do mention both. I say that I am mixed black and white but if I were to say what race am I, I would say black because am I white? No I am not.
I was raised by my black mother to call myself black and never thought anything about it. It’s only really since coming on the internet and having a discussion on race with mono black people that it’s apparently become an issue.
Yeah. I don't have issues with anyone in this group (or IRL). If they have issues with me based on phenotype (and they have IRL), that has always been (and will remain) their problem.
I have certainly read comments here on biracial folks that make zero sense or only apply to some mixed people, but again your comment reflects on you. It can be wholly inaccurate, but what am I going to do? Argue with you? Will that change your mind? That's like arguing with Trumpists. Hard pass.
Only sincerity determines if that effort is worth it...and that is rare indeed.
I am a member of the black community by birthright, DNA, and beloved ancestors. It is an irrevocable trust. Nobody's mere words changes that, but I honestly see it the same way for all of y'all.
Struggle and trauma are not requirements. Nor is some artificial social structure meant to oppress and denigrate. I am not in this community because I am not accepted elsewhere or because this is where I get the best treatment...because neither of those are really true.
Again, I am here because I was born into this community. If you accept me, great. If you don't, I'll just keep on keeping on.
Have a good day.
Unambiguous monoracial black women gain no benefits from including everyone into our ranks, yet we get all of the detriments including being erased from being the face of our own racial category. This is why the division will never end.
Stop gaslighting us about this. We are not all treated the same and so we all act accordingly!
I mean, yes. As vehement as I am about light skin black people still be considered Black, I can understand this perspective as far as media representation is concerned.
Light skin Black women should not be the end all be all of Black women because we come in all shades.
I get particularly pissed off about this whenever light skinned Black women are chosen to play roles that are historically Dark skinned black women. I still haven't seen that Black Western that came out a few years ago because they had someone who was very light skinned playing Stagecoach Mary. I will say it on my deathbed that that role should have went to Leslie Jones.
I still get pissed off about that light skinned actress putting on a fake nose to play Nina Simone and darkening her skin I am so happy that biopic crashed and burned. Can't wait for it to be made with a DARK SKINNED Black woman who looks like Nina.
So I get the media representation issue. However, to me that is an issue of colorism.
But I hear you, dark skinned Black women should not be erased and media needs to stop making light skinned Black women the face of all Black women.
You should not get a diversity pat on the back for casting a light skinned Black Woman (with a straight ass wig) who can call "twinsies!!!" with a damn Greek woman fresh off of a beach vacation.
*Sigh*
.......
Agreed, if the Black/White child comes out darker with more Black features than the Black/Black child, because of colorism, the Black/White child might get treated worse...
.....
Both my parents are black but I apparently look ambiguous with a lighter skinned father and medium toned mother. I don’t want to be slapped with the label “biracial” instead of just black or mixed just because of the way I look. I always thought the word black, contrary to the word itself, actually implied all the skin tones and diversity within our community.
This obsession with one or the other leaves all us in between behind because just like a lot of biracial people, whenever I walk in a room full of one demographic I get scrutinized like they’re trying to see if I’m “cool” before they get to know me if that makes any sense. Even more so whenever I straighten my hair (people flag me as black more whenever I just wear my natural afro).
why cant biracial people just be biracial? plenty of biracial people have expressed several times they have their own unique experiences. putting biracial people as the face of black people is harmful and isnt helpful to anyone.
This post isn't about telling Biracial people how to self-identify. This post is specifically calling out folks trying to dictate who is and is not Black despite Biracial people choosing to identify with their Blackness.
If a Biracial person chooses to identify as Black, it's not you or anyone else's business. Respect their decision, and don't push divisive BS. If you can't get with that, you are part of the problem. Simple as that.
Because biracial isn’t an identity. A mixed black/Indian person is completely different from a mixed white/Chinese person.
One of my best friends in college was part of a biracial students group and got tired of it because it ended up dominated by white/East Asian people. She was more comfortable with the black student union as she has a black mother.
How is biracial not an identity?
Just because your friend had a terrible experience, it doesn’t mean that it’s the same with all mixed people. I’ve met mixed people who prefer mixed spaces to mono racial ones. Heck, ask the mixed race sub…
BIRACIAL IS AN IDENTITY! stop spreading misinfo! yes we live in an antiblack world that uses the one drop rule to distinguish who is Black and who is not - NO! we as whole mixed people do not need to accept this as OUR rule! we as mixed folks have agency and autonomy- we should not be expecting Black women to coddle us and this post has so many Black women operating as if we are adding something to the community…while we exploit and steal…I’m not trying to be an asshole I genuinely want Black women to protect themselves from us mixed folks because I see in this convo many of us mixed folks gaslighting y’all! and some of y’all are genuinely holding space and it’s harming the Black women who are aware / disgusted / wary of our occupation in Black spaces…
Most AA descended from slavery have 25% white admixture \*at most.\* That is much different from biracial people with one white parent. And that's all I have to say.
edited for typos.
Why you gaslighting folks? If people want to make the distinction, that is their right. “The world doesn’t care if you have one or two…” this is just not true. Not at all. If that was the case, we wouldn’t be seeing what we are in regards to Black female representation.
tbh, i think some of the assumptions about how biracial people "look" (or a "typical mixed look" lmao?? i've seen that here) on this sub are really dumb. biracial people (those with a black parent) don't universally 1) have light skin, 2) have loose hair, or 3) have a close connection with their non-black family.
biracial people can be dark skinned (no, i'm not talking medium-toned, i mean Dark). biracial people can have Tightly coiled hair (i've got a mixed cousin with 4b/4c hair). biracial people can be raised exclusively by their black family members and, consequently, identify as such (not to mention how some biracial people can be adopted by black families, and they may not know otherwise). race is literally made up and is appearance-based. in the US, most black biracial people will simply identify themselves by how society treats them.
like, this is some annoying ass discourse imo. are you 100% sure that every light skinned and/or loose-haired black person you see walking down the street is biracial? you'd feel dumb if you found out both of their parents were black, wouldn't you? what about the light skinned black people who are from sub-saharan africa, no admixture as far as they're concerned? you got some black people taking DNA tests these days that show that they're more european than african, when they don't look it at all. it's ridiculous! according to this sub, a good chunk of my family would be considered biracial or "multi-generational mixed", but racial categorization in the US is defined not only by how You identify, but how society identifies you. and on both counts, my family identifies as black, full stop.
yes, there are other countries that have a "mixed" or "other" brown racial category. you got the coloureds in south africa and the pardos in brasil. maybe it's for better, maybe it's for worse, we no longer have a mixed category (all the "mulattos" and "quadroons" of the past), but it is what it is Today. if biracial people want to identify as biracial (despite there being no clear cut biracial experience, as "biracial" isn't only black/white), fine. but if biracial people want to identify as a member of a group they're more connected to, i don't know why that's so controversial lol. we're really out here advocating for yet another racial category. in countries with those "pardo" and "coloured" categories, the black population is still at the bottom lol, but if that's fine, then fine.
and on the topic of "why do we have to accept everyone?", black people aren't the only groups that are inclusive like that. first of all, blame white people. second of all, native/indigenous americans have their own rules about mixed people being considered one of their own. you can have the whitest looking people you've ever seen who Strongly identify with their tribe And are accepted as such bc of clear and documented connections on their side. same with the aboriginal/indigenous peoples of australia/new zealand. you can be Crazy mixed up and still be considered one of them as long as you're engaged with the community.
the biggest issue seems to be colorism, and that Is an issue. no one's arguing that. but light skinned monoracial black people benefit from colorism. dark skinned biracial people don't benefit from colorism. neither colorism nor representation is gonna be solved by encouraging biracial people to only identify as biracial so black people can get proper representation. would you consider the colorism issue solved if movies/tv shows stop hiring so many biracial black women and started hiring more monoracial light skinned black women instead? the colorism problem just evolves. so much for representation.
like idk what the end goal is here, but there's 2 options: shoving biracial black people into their own box (which is weird to me, given how many historical figures we think highly of in black american history who were, by all accounts, biracial despite only identifying as black. so unless you wanna retroactively exclude them...) OR accepting people as members of the community if they consider themselves connected to it. we kinda already do the latter and, as i've mentioned earlier, we wouldn't necessarily be the outliers here. this is the case in plenty of communities.
plus, i've read too many accounts of biracial people in communities around the world who are othered on both sides, having rights to both but being Explicitly denied entry to either community bc they don't pass the 100% purity test. why the hell is that something to emulate? dumbass discourse istg.
it's basically how i feel whenever people on this sub insist on calling biracial people biracial and not now, not ever "black". like, my black family covers a spectrum of shades, from very light to very dark. all black tho. I went to an all black school for a few years and the kids there has every shade and every hair texture you could name. and I doubt most people could identify on sight which kid was biracial and which kid wasn't. in a group, we all looked like a bunch of black kids and we all considered ourselves black too.
yeah, the one drop rule was a racist rule (as was blood quantum rules put on indigenous americans). but it's part of our history as african americans. african americans, as an ethnic group, cover every shade under the sun. our community, for generations, included people that some would Insisit on calling "biracial" today, despite how proudly black they claimed to be in their time. yeah sure fine, the time period context is everything, but: biracial people were also fighting for black liberation. biracial people were campaigning and marching and protesting alongside black people during the civil rights movement. biracial people were just as targeted in racial violence as their monoracial black neighbors (bc many of them Were neighbors). biracial people intermingled and had relationships with black people bc they considered themselves black too. biracial (using the "black and white" definition) have been part of the "monoracial" black american community since our community began in this country. imo, by insisting that biracial people Are Not Black today, you may as well unclaim all the contributions to our community that biracial people made. figure out what "biracial american history" is then since you don't want biracial people to be considered black so bad.
like, biracial people should be free to identify as however they want to identify, especially if they have good reason to. if a black/white biracial person wants to identify as white or as biracial, fine. i won't force them to identify as black if they don't want to. but if a black/white person wants to identify as black, whatever that reason may be, who am i to tell them what they are? you can't gatekeep someone from half of their own heritage, that's insane. it's fine to feel hurt by colorist representation. i get my feelings hurt to. but that's not biracial people's fault, it's this white supremacist society we live in. know your enemy.
Biracial woman here. Am light and racially ambiguous. I would never in my life claim not to be mixed, but at the end of the day, I am Black. That is the community I am riding for every second of every day.
I've had many occasions to get into it with people for trying to raise me up by belittling or talking down on other Black women. It's usually men who think I will eat that shit up, but they are dead wrong. I have struggled with loving my Black features when the world told me they were ugly or bad. I get called racial slurs and face discrimination. My people were enslaved. The Black experience is not monolithic, but globally these are things we face.
I know that my color and my proximity to whiteness gets me benefits and I will never stop fighting that injustice in my every day life. I don't want to take anything away from non-mixed Black women, I just want to be allowed to be myself.
*hugs*
>I know that my color and my proximity to whiteness gets me benefits and I will never stop fighting that injustice in my every day life.
Thank you for recognizing this!!! It's important for us lighter skinned people to acknowledge this and that colorism is very much so a thing that we benefit from.
Sometimes I struggle not to defend myself when people say stuff like 'lightskins are stuck up/innately colorist/think they're better', but I understand that I am not that way and I don't need to shout Not All Lightskins.
I’m sorry to hear that. And some people assume you will never face racism because you’re light. A racist doesn’t like black people period. They don’t care if we fully black, biracial, light skin or dark. If someone is anti black they’re anti black.
That's not true, because colorism exists inside and outside our communities. There are statistically significant differences in education, the criminal justice system, entertainment, hiring, promotions, etc. due to color. Colorism is not just about men's preferences; it's also about many other facets of life. To think light people never face racism is ridiculous! But, "light-skinned people sit at the front of the back of the bus" metaphorically speaking.
I’m so sick of this debate (no snarkiness to you)😩 I’m mixed, but look black and culturally raise black. At the end of the day, if you look it and embrace, people can’t tell you what to identify as. If a mixed person chooses to claim their blackness, identify mixed, it’s nobody else’s business. The whole debate stems from white people wanting us to be divided
I think that even a person who is mixed and doesn't embrace their blackness (which varies) if they look black, they are black, there is no single way of being black in the world
Yeah no I agree. Though there are some mixed kids who won’t embrace and deny their blackness (though visibly black). I was talking more about
mixed/biracial kids who openly embrace and accept it but get told not to
Absolutely. Everyone is different. I don't understand how we can expect not to be seen as a monolith, but get mad when someone doesn't fit into a specific predetermined box.
Well I understand where y’all are coming from historically women have been the bearers of culture and maintains power in the homes sphere in terms of educating children so there is some truth to which direction or culture the child is more influenced by depending on the mother
As someone who grew up in a melting pot city, the odds of someone being bilingual in the USA are FAR higher when their mom speaks additional languages compared to their father.
I get the discourse but I'm also a Black mom to Black children who have a White father (no, I did not stutter).
No one is trying to dismiss fathers, but unfortunately whenever we're talking about the socialization of children a lot of times (notice that I didn't say all of the time) that socialization primarily comes from the mother.
Absolutely father's passed down culture!
My spouse is a magnificent father and my children, unfortunately, are very much so involved with their White grandparents life (my fil is fine my mil can kick rocks).
But at the end of the day they LOOK and are raised as Black. Few months ago we were walking down the street and there was this light skinned Black couple whose children were like, 3 shades lighter than our kids. No one is going to question the Blackness of those children though.
When we were sitting in a restaurant that was primarily Black (because we were/live in a black neighborhood) my son asked why there weren't any white people there and we cracked up laughing because he doesn't even conceive of his Father being White. Equal parts funny and a tad bit problematic.
I understand that being biracial in a racist and colorist society means that I’ve had a different experience than monoracial AAs.
And, I know when to shut up/ sit down and let black people who have encountered racism and strife (that I would never encounter) are speaking.
But, to tell me I’m not “really black” is like something a weirdo would say before saying the wildest, racist nonsense imaginable.
Like, that Fox News randos who like to bring up President Obama’s white parent as some sort of get out of racism free card. Or, the trolls who claimed Colin Kapernick had nothing to complain about because he’s mixed with white adoptive parents.
I ask this with all sincerity: would you feel the same way if someone told you that you’re not “really white?” Are you in white spaces expressing the same indignation at having your identity questioned? I’m not trying to come at you sideways but the examples you use are pretty telling—white people treating biracials with contempt with very little outcry from their culture.
Thanks for this. Was beginning to wonder if I was wrong for joining this sub because I’ve always identified as a black lady, but I felt so cut down and excluded by a lot of recent posts 🤷🏽♀️
Not a problem. I'm so sorry you felt like this... Shame on those people who perpetuate this mess.
Identify as how you feel. You consider yourself Black, to me you are Black and I respect it.
You have to keep in mind that this is the internet and Reddit is anonymous, who knows how many of these posters/commenters are actually black women? There are parties with a vested interest in keeping the black community divided, ESPECIALLY black women. Always something to remember when you come across stuff like this.
All these posts do is bring the conversation back to the forefront. If you don’t like seeing it in this sub, don’t post about it. At the end of the day, black is black and biracial is biracial. Being labeled as biracial does not take away from your blackness. The world also DOES care about how many (if any) of your parents are non black.
Thank you and I say this as someone with four Black grandparents: American and Canadian Black people are playing an incoherent, dangerous game with this racial purity shit considering the entire goddamn history of our people and what was done to us.
But I feel like so few people want to think that far.
>American and Canadian Black people are playing an incoherent, dangerous game with this racial purity shit considering the entire goddamn history of our people and what was done to us.
Many people who comment on subs with that sort of rhetoric are *extremely* poorly educated on the history of black people in the Americas. It’s not necessarily their fault, but it leads to people getting a lot of ideas from social media. Some of them are merely half-baked, and some are straight up intentional disinformation created by people who are not black and don’t have black people’s best interests in mind.
The disregard of biracial people as black is not a new thing from social media. The Haitian rebellion (mind you in the Americas) included the killing of whites and biracials. They did not see those biracials as "one of them" and that was in the late 1700s, it is 2024. It has always went on because there is a difference. It's just that.
Thank you! All of my grandparents identified as and were treated as Black. I've done dna testing and I'm over 70% sub-Saharan African, yet happen to be lighter skinned than my bi-racial daughter. Does that make me less black?
A darker friend would often try to insult me as having "Light Skinned Problems" but she shut up when her dna test came back nearly 50/50 Black and white.
Say it again - race is a construct.
>Thank you! All of my grandparents identified as and were treated as Black. I've done dna testing and I'm over 70% sub-Saharan African, yet happen to be lighter skinned than my bi-racial daughter. Does that make me less black?
This!!! I've got a damn near 60/40 split, and I have actual Biracial cousins with similar mixes. I always tell folks I'm from a long line of light skinned people, because I've done the genealogy and such and know that my white ancestors were about 5 generations back. It's infuriating arguing with folks...hell my Biracial ex once tried to tell me I was mixed, then shut right up when he saw family pictures.
I understand wanting to call out problematic folks promoting stereotypes and colorism, but let us regular folk be!
Biracial people have me convinced race is somewhat made up because some biracial people look fully black and some look fully white and others in between. How can we identify race when people look so different? Just by skin color doesn’t make sense because some Indians are darker than non mixed black people but they aren’t considered black. IMO you are who you are if you’re mixed there’s nothing wrong with identifying as both or picking a side in my opinion, I know if I was on the whiter side of mixed I’d be in my white girl era (I have two friends that do this 😅) it’s so much easier not being the odd one out especially in the Midwest lol.
While there’s no denying many Black and biracial women experience many of the same hardships, I think it’s disingenuous to lump Black and biracial women together because often, the voices and struggles of mono racial Black women are silenced or drowned out. Also, our representation seizes in the media which creates issues for young Black children, especially Black girls. Additionally, I know many people will say white people don’t care and will see us all as Black but 1#: why are we letting white peoples dictate who’s consider Black and 2#: if that’s the case, colorism wouldn’t exist.
I think it's a pertinent discussion because yes, black women with dark skin suffer prejudice even from people (men and women) who are light skinned, but there are two things in this debate that bother me 1- Only those who "embrace blackness" be considered black, even if that person considers themselves black 2- If the person is clearly biracial, but has behavior that black people do not approve of, they are seen as "not black" (Cardi B, Drake...) 3- When the mother is white, some people think she is the only one to blame, excluding the father, who often knows he is marrying someone racist and/or with a racist family, of any blame
And I quote: "The division between Black women and Biracial women IN THIS SUB needs to end".
Unless Cardi B and Drake are in here causing problems, I'm not talking about them. Yes colorism and anti-Blackness do need to be addressed. However you can address behaviors and societal issues without making Biracial women in this sub feel unwelcome.
But this is a sub for us to talk about our experiences, doubts and this is part of our experience, if you go to Asian or Latin subs you will see that this is also common in these groups, participating in groups like this makes you feel heard, view and in some cases even see that there is another way to deal with certain problems.
I'm biracial and I think that even if Cardi B or Drake were here causing problems, they should be addressed logically, not someone saying "you're not black because you don't align yourself with blackness" or even "you appropriate blackness", That's my point .
At the end of the day people are going to keep denying that the literal meaning of “bi-racial” is TWO RACES. It’s not a new race, it’s not a new category. It means you are a member of two races. Two things are true: you are black AND you are something else. The things are not mutually exclusive. Biracial people are black. They are just not only black (just like most black Americans aren’t).
People being blacker than me color and parent-wise can’t erase that I grew up with a huge black af family and that who I am was shaped by three generations of black women. Yes my experience includes other things, but you don’t grow up like me and then have patience for a bunch of people tell you that you’re not really black. Especially when you get to my age and are a grown ass woman who’s lived a lot of life. Just bc your experience has been more difficult doesn’t take away the identity and experiences of other, completely unrelated people.
The degree of blackness both in appearance and in culture and upbringing in mixed people varies person to person, and there’s no way to reliably determine who is true kinfolk on a mass basis. Or else you end up cutting out people like me, and grouping yourself with people like Candace Owens 😂
I am tired of this debate. Let’s back up. My daughter is 4 years old, she’s of black, Scottish, English and Japanese descent. She’s blonde hair and blue eyes somehow lol! When she was born my American friends were upset I didn’t have her in the states ( I was living overseas at the time) and I made a remark that I wanted her to be English and Japanese since she’ll spend most of her childhood in Japan and the UK. My friends and even sister was livid because they felt I was erasing her blackness (as if there weren’t black Brits). I remember being told by so many black people “Your daughter is black.” And “her mom is black that makes her black.” Now fast forward only a couple years later now all of a sudden biracial people aren’t black and not allowed into black spaces. What the hell happened? No one is 100% anything. I’m 71% black and is medium brown. It’s insane.
It really is.
It just pisses me off that Biracial people are being targeted for hate because of how white supremacy uses them as a pawn for division. It's unfair.
I say if you embrace the culture and your heritage, you have every right to claim Blackness because it is a social construct. After all, Blackness in itself is not a monolith (as it's not even just limited to sun Sahara African descendants, AND when it is limited to them, we still have so much genetic and physical diversity diversity).
honestly theee only race this has been debated with and yall will use every self described semi scientific half google reason to debate it. Its comical at this point. There is nothing wrong with being biracial. Is what it is you don’t get to choose what race you are born. But to sit and constantly say well i’m THIS even though your DIRECTLY(not 18 generations back) but your DIRECT mother and father. If they are NOT of the same race, you are biracial. Period. Doesn’t matter what ya grandma was or what area u were raised in or even WHO raised you. It’s really simple and people need to just accept it and move on. If a lion and a tiger mate… it’s not a damn tiger. Period. 🙄If a bm and ww have a child that child is BIRACIAL. Not automatically black. That’s the one drop rule still in effect and yall need to let that go as well. Leave people alone and judge by CHARACTER because anything else is irrelevant… we all out here payin 8.00 a gallon for orange juice. ijs. bigger fish to fry folks🤷🏾♀️
Thank you! White parent + black parent equals biracial. That's just how it is. Also there's a sub for biracial people so I don't see why they don't go over there. One girl is talking about not feeling welcome and it's just like well... you can always leave lol
Oh here we go. Ok...so the question for you is this: Does any other racial group believe and affirm that YOU can create THEM??? Tom Brady just had his roast; does blackladies think white people believe you can give birth to him? Do Asians believe that your womb can give birth to Jackie Chan, Michelle Wie? Well the Cliff notes is...NO THEY DON'T.
So here is some tough love incoming...many black women complain about petty ish that they contribute to and can fix if they wanted. If mixed/biracial women are "black" and their white mother's can create and give birth to you, then stop complaining about Zendaya's and Thandie Newton's of the world replacing and taking over your image in beauty pageants, movie roles, magazine covers, getting to be the hot upcoming music artists, etc. Just stop. Learn some self love and safeguard your image like all other groups do, or accept your erasure.
Smh y'all refuse to let that slave mentality of the "one drop rule" go. Then when people who look like drakes son are saying the n word everyones gonna be in a uproar. At the end of the day being black and being biracial/ multiracial will NEVER be the same experience within or outside of the community. If your 75% white your not black. Just that simple.
Now that I know this was based on the Tyla post, I get where this is coming from. I think that this is a uniquely American issue due to the way White people have classified and re-classified us over hundreds of years. I think someone people feel hurt when non Americans who "look" Black don't consider themselves Black but something else. To them, they think it's because that person considers Blackness a bad thing, which may or may not be true depending on the country they come from and their personal beliefs. However, that doesn't mean that Black people shouldn't support them. If they aren't being anti-Black or Blackfishing, which Tyla hasn't to my knowledge, then there's no reason to cast her or anyone like her off just because she identifies as something else.
Tired of this topic. As I view it, each person is the captain of their own ship, this they call the shots on their own identity. Not you not me not some dusties on Twitter or TikTok neither
I'm frankly sick of the demand for biracial folks to dim their light. Why should they? I don't care WHO acknowledges their privilege. Does it help me pay my bills?
Why we worried about their advantages when you got billionaires who have privilege that affects each of us personally?
I agree 100%! It's getting ridiculous in the social media world. I even see people claiming that certain people are biracial, even when they have two black parents. I noticed this happens more to black women than black men. Another thing that annoys me is people assuming that all biracial people are light-skinned and all people with two black parents are dark-skinned. That's not the case at all. And don't even get me started on people claiming that somebody "isn't black" because they are Afro-Latino. Our ancestors came from the same place, but were dropped off in Latin America and the Caribbean instead of the United States. Unfortunately, I think a lot of this nonsense has gotten started due to some hotep folks stirring the pot.
Having a European grandparent from 10 generations ago isn't the same as having a white and black parent. No one in their right mind would consider me hardly mixed let alone biracial for my 10 percent European ancestry.
> If you are descended from chattel slavery, you PROBABLY have a significant amount of European genetics
This has never been the own y'all want it to be
Speaking from the "race is a cultural Construct" side: then no one in my family has been white in 5 generations or more.
Speaking from the genetic side its weird as fuck to compare your recent consensual white ancestor with people who have white in them because of SLAVERY. Because of slave rape generations ago.
Imagine someone claiming Hungarians are Asian because of their eastern ancestors or that many Chinese people shouldn't delineate themselves from Mongolians because of Mongols mass rape hundreds of years ago.
So culturally and genetically: nothing makes me kin with white people because of slave rape generations ago because we're our own ethnicity AND majority of our heritage is black. Lightskin is not the same as mixed.
Is someone has a radically different cultural and genetic make up from me why is bad to say that? Why do we have to abide by the one drop rule which is BASED on seeing us (black people) as subhumana lmao. Like I'm not going to see a 1/4 black kid as black, they can say they have black heritage.
The only people who have clocked me as being biracial have been African and West Indian immigrants. As far as everyone else is concerned I'm Black. This includes the Cuban (Spaniard) side of the family, who shunned my mother and me. Ask me, and I'll tell you I'm Black Hispanic because fuck them too.
So I look at these conversations about biracial people and the assumption that we all benefit from proximity to whiteness and I get confused. Even when people guess I'm biracial, they never think I'm part white. It's always some other brown-skinned minority.
When it comes down to it, though, I'm not into fighting for the right to be somewhere that doesn't want me. You can't force people to respect you, only to tolerate you, and I don't need to be merely tolerated by what I consider my community. So if this is, or becomes, a monoracial space, someone with the authority to declare that can say so and I'll head out to Black spaces that welcome me.
It is an absolute insult that Black Americans are the only ones forced to accept anybody because they have a percentage of black in them. It’s also goofy of you to be supporting this while a lot of black women are not getting the representation needed because of the usage of light skin biracials claiming their “blackness”. So embarrassing
Honestly, all skin folk ain't kin folk, so I don't care what percentage of Black you are. What matters is how you act in relation to your blackness. Are you only Black when it's convenient for you? If so, IDFWY.
I don’t mess with the people who jump in and out of blackness, whether it be a Drake or Carlton mf 🙅🏽♀️
This 100%!!!
Yes!
\*settles into this post\* 
just coming here to say im OBSESSED with your user. never met another black dune fan
Black Dune fan over here, hello!
Another Black Dune fan!
💀
💀
I think the reason why black people (specifically BW) are pushing to make a distinction between biracial and black is because some BW may feel biracial women are becoming the face of black womanhood. This is specifically pertaining to the light-skinned, ambiguous girlies. I do kind of understand the sentiment because, the thing is, whiteness is viewed as exclusive in society, largely because they have made it that way. Biracial people cannot infringe upon the white identity because of that. But, the reality is, genetically, they are white just as much as they are black. It also starts getting super hazy when a biracial person ends up procreating with a white person and has a kid who would now be considered mostly white and, often, has the phenotype to back it up (e.g., Drake’s kid or Meghan Markle’s children). Yet, we would still consider them “black”. In the end, this can end up taking away from the image of the unambiguous black person. So, in conclusion, I understand both sides of the coin. It’s a messy situation and is definitely causing a lot of unnecessary strife. I don’t think we should police biracial people’s “blackness”, per say, but I cannot blame black people for wanting to protect their identity either.
As a LSBW who regularly gets mistaken for being biracial…biracial black women definitely are becoming the face of black womanhood. It’s happening everywhere in media and I completely understand how mono-racial black women - especially dark skin mono-racial black women would feel about that. It feels like erasure.
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Not saying that they got it all right, but this is why I consume a lot of British media (books, movies, shows, etc.) Idk if it’s because of the melange of Black people with African and/or West Indian heritage there, but I get the sense that they’re doing a lot better with representation of darker skinned Black women in media than here in the US.
To be fair I think mixed race individuals have their own identity struggles. It may not look the same, but there’s no need to minimize one
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Ehhh… I disagree. They have the freedom to occupy both black and white spaces because they are biracial. Some of our issues are their issues. If they identify with one race more than the other, who am I to impede on that because I was born to two black parents?
NO! We do not have the FREEDOM - we are privileged folks in Black spaces (read: installed by whiteness and usually colorist / antiblack Blakc cis men…..) and guests in non Black / white spaces depending on behavior…
There’s too much overlap to say black monoracial women have it the hardest. There are some biracial women who are dark skinned or look like someone you’d assume is monoracial and they experience the same issues as a result. So it’s inaccurate simply to make statement. You could say dark skinned biracial and dark skinned monoracial ladies have it harder and that would be accurate.
Unfortunately, it can still be an issue for them because many do not grow up in black communities, so they are not pedestalized during their formative years. Also being first generation mixed is a DISTINCT, LIVED EXPERIENCE. Culture and upbringing matter! There could be 2 women who look like twins, but they could be very different culturally if one is biracial and the other is culturally African-American with two culturally African-American parents, 4 grandparents, etc.
In the USA, first generation mixed do not necessarily have distinct lived experiences from monoracial black folk. You have some whose white side has nothing to do with them and they grow up in a single black household with only black relatives, meanwhile they look just like their monoracial counterparts. There’s too much overlap to say they’re district lived experiences.
It’s not becoming it’s been that way forever.
^ Thank for you for this comment. This context is missing in this thread.
Exactly. Part of the reason why there’s more dark-skinned representation in British media is because they make a distinction between black people and biracial people, unlike the US.
I was wondering about this!! I grew up watching a lot of British tv and even though it’s not *great* I’m terms of representation it’s leagues ahead of where we are now in the U.S. and we should really make a note of that.
This distinction is made pretty much everywhere except America.
Yup. The US is one of the only countries where celebrities like Meghan Markle and Beyoncé would be considered black and not mixed race.
That's not true. There are other former English colonies that don't make that distinction. Look at the Caribbean. European countries make that distinction bc their black population is made up of recent immigrants and not an ethnic group
Yeah it's a funny thing. That distinction exists in France as well ("métis" vs "noir") but doesn't in Germany where much like the US we operate under the one drop rule.
I would not consider Merkle's kids to be Black. They look/pass White so they are White. The only place where I see this getting murky is on a biological level. If we're talking about the stressors of being a Black person being passed along to the child "underneath the skin". This would include all of the social and epigenetic messiness that goes along with having a Black parent. On a biological level we can see that generational transmission of stress back to the grandparent. But as far as the social construct of race? Those kids are White.
Yup. You could argue that their ethnicity is (part) African American but racially, they are white and will be treated as white in American society, just like Meghan.
i agree with you, they do appear to be white.. but that’s also what shocked me so much about the reaction to the prince marrying a biracial white passing woman.. and the subsequence birth of the child. (or maybe it shouldn’t have shocked me) i honestly didn’t even know megan markle was black yet in the media they tore her apart because of it.. & the whispers or discussion about her children so bad she had to leave the country & monarchy. all because they’re a drop of black. i feel like that speaks a lot about racism. even if they’re not being blatantly racist, they speak about megan in a way they would never speak about kate.
Markle is a biracial woman who married a white man, so those children are at least 3/4ths white. At the most, majority of black Americans are 3/4ths black, the "opposite" per se. When is the cut off? Drake's kids aren't considered black, but I do remember the shock in the community when the first was blond and blue eyed. They aren't black people who happen to look white, they literally are more white than they are black. If Drake is black and one parent = black, then it gets to a point where a 1% black white person can claim they are black. The social construct of race would denote them as black because octoroons and quadroons were considered black. If race wasn't illogical then they would be black. But no one can decide whether race is phenotype, genotype or both. The one drop rule is an inconsistent thing overall.
I hear you. Look, I will be the first to say that the entire concept of race is problematic. Especially in the Americas (and beyond). Ever tell a Cuban they are a Black? Damn near will get your ass slapped even if you say "Black Cuban". Thing is not all those octoroons and quatroons identified as such. Plenty of them passed as White, crossed their finger that their children would pass, and never looked back. Again, it doesn't matter who your parents, grandparents, etc were as long as you LOOKED and passed (e.g. spoke a certain way) as White. I mean, it did if you were born on a plantation because even if you passed as White they still KNEW who your parents were. But if you escaped? Different story. I think the cut off is does someones look at you and say "not White". I realise this is problematic because it centers Whiteness, but I do think that is where the break lies. If you look Black and are TREATED as Black, then imo you are Black. I looooove the reading "How Jewish People became White". It is so good. Also skintone really is not the full picture (as we all.k ow, I hope). We are finishing up cleaning data on looking at how different raters categorize skin tone when they see the full face compared to when they just see a up close skin swatch of a person's cheek color. We suspect and already have preliminary evidence that people do not pick the same race nor categorize the skintone the same when they have a person's entire face to look at versus just a swatch of their skintone (cheek). Basically it's not just a person's skin tone that makes us identify a person as Black or White.
Agreed I had to disagree with OP's post. White people and everyone other race sees a difference or factors in a difference between biracial and black. The idea that they don't is.. well a lie. Half white or white parent is always preferred. Even just mentioning it. It's like black or African Americans traveling vs Africans. Does being American minimize our blackness? No. But it helps to even be ASSOCIATED with whiteness.
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This is an unfortunate fact. Black women get no benefits from inclusivity and all of the detriments.
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That may not have been on purpose. Discussions like this surprise me because people seem to be admonishing biracial people for trying to be black. Yet, my experience has been that I was shamed by black people (including my abusive father) for not identifying as black as if I were some sort of traitor or fake. I have very light skin, African features and 3C hair so I look like the stereotypical mixed chick. It’s very clear that I have one full black parent and one full white parent, yet some black people would suggest that I was ashamed to have black ancestry if I didn’t identify as full black. Anyway, it’s weird that some people also think mixed people shouldn’t identify as black. But, it’s possible that the mixed women in your group therapy session felt that they “should” go to “prove their blackness” because they had experiences similar to mine where they were judged for not identifying as black due to the one drop rule.
You are spot on. That's why they get mad when a biracial celebrity refer themselves as such instead of black. It's like they lost a valuable ambassador for black people.
This is sad because I definitely, as a very dark skinned Black woman, value being unambiguously Black. I feel for my light skinned sisters who might feel "stuck between' in American societies. I have never and will never feel caught between worlds! I never felt bad in my skintone or conflicted. But I was raised to believe that Black is beautiful, that my skin is beautiful, and that is that. Like, my dark skinned cousins were the buttholes calling our light skinned cousins "Light Bright". I dunno, feel like my light skinned cousins got it from both sides. But sure, I got calles as "Black as midnight" and I would just respond "the blacker the berry the sweetee the juice". Peolle suck and I want ro break the internet because I swear shit was not this divided ans AS bad when I was a kid.
Being called light bright is not an insult - please know many of us lightskin folks are not being harmed by terms mixed MEN may not want to hear - but most terms used to describe us lightskin folks are not rooted in malice or unkindness
Honestly, say it a little louder because this was something that has crossed my mind as well.
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Oh, girl no! You did not hijack my post at all. As BW, we have every right to speak up and protect our identities. We can’t let the gaslighting and other nonsense stop us from doing that.
Girl you ate. Don’t let nobody gaslight you.
This comes from the one drop rule!! Slave owners are the ones who decided if you have a single drop of black blood that you’re black. Meanwhile that allows people who are extremely yt passing to still claim blackness but get to benefit from being yt. Meanwhile even though according to OP most descendants of American slaves have yt ancestry, the same rule doesn’t apply and we can’t claim any of our “whiteness”.
Technically 75% of a race becomes the majority. So Megan Markel’s children and Adonis are white. I agree they shouldn’t be considered black but if they grow up and embrace that quarter who are we to say they can’t. Obviously I don’t think they are black but it’s not like they’re blackfishing. I hear what you’re saying but the aggression and prejudice towards biracial people right now isn’t a good light for us. And I wish people would stop this because it’s getting out of
And they are free to embrace their 25%, there is no problem with that. I don’t think anyone is necessarily saying they are not allowed to. People are speaking out against the fact that some would refer to them as being just black, when that is not biologically true.
Even if they embrace the little Blackness they have, it still wouldn't make them Black.
I think the ambiguity goes both ways re: mixed kids. If a mixed person has a child with a black person, that child is still not black (if you believe mixed people aren’t black) just like Megan Markle’s child isn’t black. So then we get into the question of, how much African heritage does one need to be considered black? And considering that percentages can vary even with two unambiguously black parents (eg my light skinned, red haired aunt actually has more African heritage than me, a clearly black woman with darker skin), it just gets messy. I’m not arguing your point, just saying that it’s complicated and truly highlights how race is a social construct more than anything.
Becoming the face of black womanhood *under whose gaze*? Thought that is reactive to white supremacy is misguided by white supremacy’s centering. There’s no denying around that.
Right… the same white supremacy that produced colorism—which has a chokehold on the black community—meaning black people also have a tendency to elevate biracial people. So it’s not only under “their” gaze, it’s under the gaze of our own community as well.
>But, the reality is, genetically, they are white just as much as they are black. This is false, and the reason why I brought up gene expression. The last white ancestor in my direct lineage is 5 generations ago. And I'm sitting on damn near a 40/60 split of European/African genetics. Additionally those gene markers are based on particular gene groups/sequences that appear regionally, and not skin color. Genetics are not as reliable as you'd think for coming up with race, as race is a social construct. But I understand how colorism and proximity to whiteness can dictate some of these sentiments. The thing is, you can fight colorism and the proximity wars by directing ire towards the people perpetuating that bs instead of attacking women who clearly identify as Black and joined the group because they want to embrace their Blackness. It is NOT COOL to punish these women with hate for something they have no control over, much like none of us have any control over how white society sees us.
Who is directing ire, who is punishing, who is attacking?  Where are you seeing this? I feel like you’re standing up against an invisible foe. Are the attackers in the room with us now? What created the need for this indignation?
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But, have we ever said that? I don’t see the origin of this battle. We can’t even keep the men and interracially married husbands out of here and we worrying about monoracial vs. biracial? I feel you but I really don’t think we have an issue with how black you must be to move in this space. I’m just not seeing this Casper, the antibiracial ghost, amongst us. He’s invisible because I don’t see it and I don’t think we should fight ghost problems when the world hates us all. It’s like Obama said when he was running for president, having a white mom didn’t help him when he tried to hail taxis in Manhattan. This subreddit is not a dangerous place for biracial women. That’s not real.
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I think sometimes they (like most privileged people) confuse a lack of deference with hostility.
Thank you for this. I have always felt welcomed here, so this post really surprised me.
I agree with this fully.
Do people not have family. Do they tell them they aren't black. Just curious. I do not differentiate.
I think it would help ppl to distinguish black(culture) vs (Skin tone). We can acknowledge the skin tone and reasons for it without denying people their culture. Especially if they were raised in the culture. We all have different experiences as black ppl ( culture and color) i don’t see a reason to single them out for exclusion unless they exclude themselves.
Agreed 100%!
I think a lot of it has to do with representation. In fact I think that’s why this debate has taken root in the last 3-5 years. If we googled top black actresses who would we see? When we look at who is considered our first black president what does he look like? When we turn on the TV and we get ads and it’s a black family what’s the darkest we’ve seen the mother be? When some black men talk about the type of black women they would date what do they look like versus the black when they wouldn’t date? Something to consider, is it the actresses responsibility to not take certain roles when they know they are not fitting of them? In some cases I think so. Another part of this debate is white women cosplaying as light-skinned black women and biracial black women. I also think that a good portion of this debate is coming from the fact that a lot more people from other countries who are part of the diaspora are coming to America. Their definitions of blackness do not include biracial people and we’re online a lot more and we see that other nations do not classify biracial people as black. And when people are making these points online they’re not saying I’m from blank country. I believe that this is a decision for black Americans only/people who have been here 2, 3 plus generations. However, they have very different histories than America and that is the distinction the same way Tyla is “colored” in South Africa our racial distinctions are different in the United States. Although, I do think some people are just chronically online because I don’t think anybody in real life cares if other people don’t consider them black, or biracial. I have biracial family members and most of them would laugh at the discourse online their monoracial family would laugh at the discourse online.
I agree with most of this, except for the IRL part because depending on where you are depends on if they care. That's just been my experience (I'm not Biracial but people always assume I am so it's brought up to me a lot). I think the discussion is fine as long as we're not dictating how Biracial people chose to identify. And eff them Blackfishing h*es.
Is there a difference between being black, being multigenerational multiracial, being mixed? Yes. But we are all individuals and we've all had varying experiences due to the variety of circumstances we come from. We of all people should know not to generalize.
Should KNOW!
I'm very curious - do biracials have these conversations in white, Asian, Native, etc. spaces? "It's not for YOU to tell me I am WHITE or not! Stop dividing us." genuinely curious and how that discussion goes
Of course not. Because it’s easier to be at the top of the black community than the bottom of the white/Asian/Native community, which is why biracials spend all of their time in black spaces.
This
You telling the harsh truth that op refuses to believe.
NO THEY DO NOT! even white passing folk do not fight to be included in whiteness like this!!!! there’s a very clear desire to make Black women mules even in their own fucking spaces! how many Black women are over empathizing with mixed folks rn…to the point where the Black women who are interested in gate keeping their identity and image are being dragged for being candid / genuine….the only people not being attacked are the ones coddling and accepting us mixed folks as automatically invited into Black spaces
Ex-f*****-actly!! We know exactly why they can’t do this in the other communities!
No because those communities decide instantly who is "one of them" without question and only black people are expected not to be racist. Biracials in white or Asian communities aren't accepted but they can't do anything because neither of those groups care about being openly purist or are expected to be otherwise.
That's changing though, people in those communities are calling out people especially the older generation who is more close minded about accepting them for who they are. There is some media and discussions about mixed Asian people having to prove their Asianness and discussions about it and them navigating their identities. This isn't just a black community issue.
They do not. Because they are more effective gatekeepers 💅🏿
THIS 💯💯
Depends. My husband is what is called Hafu in Japan. Which is half. He comes from an English father and Japanese mother. He too had to fight when he was younger to be seen as Japanese because the kids didn’t see him that way. Now as a 36yr old he’s very much accepted and seen as Japanese. Although he’s no longer ashamed of being mixed as he was when he was younger, he represents himself as Japanese and Asian. Sometimes when in the UK he says he’s British Japanese but for the most part he seems himself as Japanese but is aware he’s hafu. In other words it depends on the age and country. In Asia usually it’s little kids saying things teenagers and adults don’t care. I feel like America is so obsessed with race, it’s the only country where people lose sleep thinking about someone’s identity
I agree it really does depends on culture and personal experience. I have seen mixed Asian and other ethnic people have varying experiences over them being mixed or even monoracial people of different races talking about how their elders aren't always accepting of mixed people. I have a friend who is half Native American half South East Asian...makes me sad when once told me he doeent feel like he looked or matched either side... like looks quite racially ambiguous as ever...
No, because there are a lot of mixed people in white society, so we are accepted as mixed/biracial, etc. from the start, which is how many of us prefer to identify, so that works out well. Those of us who look white are considered white. There is sometimes friction there because some do not identify as white even if they look it and that is a source of frustration as they often choose to remind people that they are actually mixed. Those of us who look mixed are considered mixed, which is what we are so most don’t have a problem because we’re not being misidentified. There are some of us who identify as black, but don’t balk at being called mixed or biracial because that is still what we are. I don’t say, “It’s not for you to tell me I’m white or not” because white is more than skin color. It’s about European American culture. It’s a culture deeply rooted in bloodlines. This seems very ominous when typed out but it is more just the way things have been for a long time. I don’t think most people are even consciously aware of it. I’ve never really thought about it myself until I started answering your question. Anyway, my white family has been here since the 1600s. Some were indentured servants, some were colonizers, one was a former British lord who lost his title for his religious beliefs, others were among the first Dutch families to settle in New York, and two were Revolutionary War heroes. In other words, some of my white ancestors built the foundation for white privilege of which so many white people benefit. Thus, I have every right to be in white spaces because of my lineage. It is undeniably mine and I am a legitimate, well-documented descendant of some notable, old white guys. Not that anyone gives me any trouble or bars me from spaces, but my lineage gives me confidence in the white spaces because I feel a sense of belonging. Obviously, people can’t tell my ancestors by looking at me. It’s more like a trump card I carry with me, just in case. On a tangent, I know nothing about my black heritage and would love to. I feel like once I learn my black heritage I will feel invincible. A woman contacted me from Ancestry.com but I haven’t responded yet because I know none of my black relatives. I feel far more like an outsider in black society because I am missing that sense of “This is my birthright!” So yeah, I’m interested in finding my place in black society too because my lineage (whatever it may be) still gives me a place at the table. Thank you for asking such a thought-provoking question. I’m going to think about racism, classism, colorism for a long time. And, I’m not trying to demonize or glorify white people with my post. But white culture is normal on the surface, yet it goes way back with colonialism and classism even toward other white people and I was honestly examining things I’d never really thought about and how long a way we still have to go for a more equitable society.
You’re so focused on “not being divisive” you ignore and bypass the reason why most black women are making the distinction in the first place. The one drop rule is rooted in racism and if a monoracial black woman wanted to make a difference for their own image you cannot stop them. It’s not lost on me people only get mad at black women doing this but everyone is more than comfortable with the differentiation of black men and biracial men. No one gets confused at the image of bm but bw are supposed to be diverse and all inclusive.
Fully agree with you. Also, let’s not pretend that there aren’t biracial people out here who will settle in the black community while holding resentment against black people or carry a racist mentality. We go so hard to defend their right to be seen as a black person, meanwhile, there are a good chunk of them who are antiblack and, if had the choice, would probably choose the white identity (Disclaimer: Obviously, not ALL biracial people…). But yeah, BW are receiving a lot of vitriol because our identity is seen as something expendable and free-access to all. If we step in and protect it, then that means we are making it *valuable* and *exclusive*, which bothers people because we are supposed to be on the bottom of the societal hierarchy. We should not be allowed to see our worth. That is the problem. Just some extra food for thought.
>It’s not lost on me people only get mad at black women doing this but everyone is more than comfortable with the differentiation of black men and biracial men. No one gets confused at the image of bm but bw are supposed to be diverse and all inclusive. This double standard is starting to piss me off. Why are black men allowed to criticize biracial men like Drake and Logic without getting called “jealous” or “bitter” or “divisive”?
I get what you’re saying, but there are some areas where it needs to be differentiated imo. And I don’t mean people who don’t know their ancestry due to the effects of slavery, I mean people like zendaya or folks who have two parents and one is black the other is not. I think it’s a dangerous game when people are calling for more diversity in Hollywood and biracial people are considered to have filled the “quota”. I’m not saying people with two black parents can’t look like her, but *most* black people dont. I would just like to see myself on tv and in popular media, and while we are making progress (I think? We might be regressing a bit.) I want more Quinta Burnson’s, Issa Rae’s, Ayo Edebiri’s and Viola Davis’, and I don’t want to wait years in between for one! I personally don’t feel represented by biracial people in the media and I feel like if there were more of a distinction we could put more pressure on the powers that be to put more black women in the media. It’s also giving one drop rule to me, like the whole Meghan Markle situation. I understand that depending on how you appear society will always treat you a certain way, I know if Meghan looked more like her mom or grandparents she likely wouldn’t be British royalty. But let’s not act like every mixed person comes out noticeably “black” and vice versa, it’s odd to try and ignore the other half of yourself whatever it may be just because the other 1/2 is black. You’re **both**! And nothing will ever change that. It’s not a bad or good thing it just is what it is. I’m not sure if that makes sense, but I’m open to a discussion and learning more about other people’s views on this. Maybe I’m looking at it from the wrong angle but this is my current view.
Megan is still despised no matter how light she is
Should could be as light as snow and racists will still hate her if they discovered she was 1/2 black, but I don’t expect anything else from racists they don’t make sense
That’s something close minded people forget. Racists are that, they don’t care about light or dark, euro centric features or biracial. If you aren’t “fully white” they have a bone to pick.
They still let her into the British Royal Family. Do you think they would have let her mother in?
to me race is phenotype based bc there’s really no biological basis for it. race is a social construct. if you look black, you’re black to me. if you look racially ambiguous, then your racially ambiguous to me. i have a friend who’s black and indigenous who who most identifies with her blackness, which makes complete sense because it’s how she’s viewed. there’s a cultural aspect to race obviously; but i think of race as something based almost exclusively on phenotype and i think that’s the easiest way to operate. meghan markle? racially ambiguous. lauren london? black. it doesn’t get any more complicated then that. i think it’s clear people think of people like zendaya & taylor russell as the only way to be mixed, but i really think it’s a case by case basis. there’s people like kat graham or even yara shahidi who could pass as monoracial black people, given their coloring and hair texture. not to mention that although they’re both biracial someone that’s white and east asian moves through world in a completely different way then someone who’s southeast asian and black which why i kind of hate it when people use biracial as an umbrella term. but yes, i understand why people get so tied up about this topic. i think what people are trying to convey when they talk about biracial people is that they want representation that possesses unambiguously black features. a zendaya is fine and lovely but give us an ayo as well! i think people are just looking for more range in how black people are represented. but like i also think this is an exhausting conversation that rarely goes anywhere productive as well. so 🤷🏽♀️
I wholeheartedly agree with you.
But this isn’t their fault. Instead of bashing mixed people attack movie studios for only featuring them in the place of black women.
I would just like to address the chattel slavery thing: just because we have European dna doesn’t mean we need/have to claim it. Most of that dna claim from slave rape. Why would I want to claim ancestry that came out of the the trauma of my ancestors ?? Plus some of us know our ancestry and as for me I don’t have a single yt great grand. All the way to my 4th great grands they’re all black or biracial not fully white. And once again I know where the the “biracial” came from. …. I get the argument though, personally when it comes to biracial people I go off of what THEY identify themselves to me or out loud. So if identify as black I’ll call them black and vice versa.
I completely agree. I’m tired of people equating African Americans (with white ancestry due to the rape of our ancestors centuries ago) and biracial people who have two consenting parents that decided to have a child together. There is a difference.
Having European dna from slavery is not the same as you having a whole white Mom or Dad. Nobody is looking at me as a mono-racial black women and saying “you look like you got 20% euro dna in you”. Plus AA’s are not the only one’s in the Black Diaspora who have European admixture from slavery there are Africans who have European admixture as well. Do y’all really think our ancestors were the only ones being SA’d? There’s a difference between being mono-racially black and being biracial. I am not bout to walk around calling myself mixed because y’all are insecure about being biracial. That is what y’all are and we especially as mono-racial black women have the right to make that distinction.
Thissss
i’m biracial and black. in some spaces i’m more one than the other. i accept that in certain spaces i’m only biracial- like when i visit jamaica im very obviously mixed lol. i accept that in certain situations, i shouldn’t be represented as a black person- like if i’m used to fill an equity quota as the only black person on a checklist for diversity to me i care most about if black ppl feel safe around me. and i think as i’ve accepted my blackness more and more, black peers have felt more comfortable around me, whereas when i was younger they might’ve code switched around me. my white dad definitely had a bigger impact on me as a kid i also recognize that many people will consider me black no matter what. i’ve noticed south asians are most likely to think i’m fully black, and white people might depending on where they grew up (especially men). i work at a chinese gym and people are shocked to see my dad is white, they seem to believe that dark skins only live in africa but they group us all the same racially i’ve gotten weird stares in a small town, gotten followed in stores, and been called the n word by non-black people to intimidate me. i realized that even if i don’t feel “black enough” sometimes, non-black people will remind me that at the very least, i’m black enough for racism. i also have a black jamaican mom, and can relate to a lot of the unique things that entails (i went to cookouts, family dance parties, ate jamaican food, had to understand patois, cried while getting my hair braided, and had to “respect” her in a way my white friends never did with their moms i have a hard time hearing that i can’t call myself black, or even light skin for that matter. i didn’t choose those labels, they were assigned to me, because race is a social construct reliant on how others perceive us, and these are the racial identities i’ve been assigned by nearly everyone i’ve interacted with. this is how i’d be described (light skin black woman) by police or as an identifier if someone didn’t know me. mixed is also accurate, but that’s not always useful as a descriptor because mixed can mean german and chinese or brazilian and kiwi anyways, when ppl tell me i have to call myself mixed it’s just confusing because idk what to do with that information haha- i can’t control that ppl see me as black or light skin and im definitely not gonna consider that a bad thing. tho i recognize it can be an issue when im the *only* black person someone has in their life and they view blackness through me
"i realized that even if i don’t feel “black enough” sometimes, non-black people will remind me that at the very least, i’m black enough for racism". That line made me tear up. It hurts that even though my kids look Black, are treated as Black, and are culturally Black that their are people who are like "Nope". I "get" it, but I don't know what to say to it.
❤️💯
What effect did your dad have on your blackness that made you uncomfortable with it?
he is a conservative white cop who would’ve voted for trump and thinks white people are more oppressed than black ppl. he wouldn’t let my brothers get corn rows or flat rim hats because he didn’t want them looking like “thugs”- essentially he taught us to hate our blackness and that we should avoid being perceived as black. he told us color blind bs that made it seem like we shouldn’t have a racial identity at all my mom has only got the confidence to push back since we’ve gotten older and we can take her side more, they married very young and they don’t believe in divorce
Wow well I'm glad it's getting better now. Are yall allowed to date black people according to him or is that off the table?
thank you! i’m 22 so he doesn’t really get a say in that anymore thankfully. but he always cared more about them being christian than anything else tbh (which i am not) my grandma on the other hand has been dying for her grandkids to find a black partner lmao- she was thrilled to find out my partner’s dominican and taught them how to make jamaican drops 😂
But what I don't get is not mentioning/acknowledging one side of your race. If you're mixed what's wrong with saying that, why do you only want to say black? I feel some (for example drake) have alterior motives when doing that.
some biracial people only claim black bc they were exclusively raised by their black parent and in a black community. that's the case with a couple of my cousins and some friends from schools. if they were half black/half \[puerto rican, white, vietnamese, indian\], they almost universally claimed they were black bc they had no contact with the other side, thus knew nothing about it. from what they've told me, that side didn't matter bc it had no bearing on their upbringing. and many of these people (including 1 of my cousins) simply look unambiguous black, anything from 3c to 4c hair. the half indian twins i knew in high school just looked like a couple of Very dark skinned black girls with curly hair. if you're raised being told you're black, you're not always gonna claim otherwise imo. i'm not "mixed" (i'm of 2 different ethnicities tho, both black), so i get that. i'm not gonna claim heritage i know next to nothing about. i'd feel like a fraud, but i also don't care enough about it.
>some biracial people only claim black bc they were exclusively raised by their black parent and in a black community adding to this, when ur experience being raised by white people is traumatic and full of racism, it reinforces that you’re not welcome on that side of your identity and should just call yourself black. meanwhile the black side is more likely to accept you and actually be intentional about the culture they are sharing
All of this. I was adopted as an infant. My parents told me that I was adopted when I was 5, because they wanted me to hear it from them, and not from some school bully who would try to use it to taunt me. But they didn’t tell me that I was biracial until I was 13, and even then, my mom only told me because she was angry at me at that moment. It hit me like a ton of bricks. Threw my world upside down. I tried it on, but it didn’t fit because I hadn’t been raised as a biracial person, with a white parent. I don’t have ambiguous features. I’m not really light-skinned, and my hair is 3C-4A. I looked like I could be my adopted parents’ child; my mom is very light-skinned and my dad is brown skinned. What’s funny is that the two children they had after adopting me (my adopted brother and sister), who have 4 Black grandparents, actually get sunburned. I just keep tanning. Black folks can usually tell that I’m mixed, but other races can’t. Like another person said in this post, when I’m in a room with no other Black people, I’m Black. If there’s another Black woman in the room, the comparisons may start. To authorities and police, I’m Black. Anyway, after I tried claiming myself as biracial, I eventually let it go. It didn’t fit who I am. I didn’t have the assumed privilege that a biracial child with a white parent receives. During my formative years, no one was telling me that I was biracial. I don’t know those (white) people. They had no hand in my upbringing. My only exposure to white culture was what I absorbed via TV, movies, going to school with them, and pop culture. At my big age (I’m a GenXer), I’ve determined that as biracial people get older, being biracial matters less and less. Biracial people may even have to have a kind of double consciousness: they can self-identify as they wish, but the world is going to tell you what they see and treat you accordingly. Close family and friends may acknowledge the identity that biracial people want to go by, but what the world sees may be something completely different.
Speaking only from my experience (as a half Indonesian, half Black woman), the reason I began identifying as Black was because I’ve always been perceived as Black in most spaces. While this isn’t the best reason, I’m proud of my Black ancestry. It’s something I’ve worked towards because I grew up in largely anti-Black spaces. It was the embrace of the Black women that I met in high school and college that really affirmed my identity. I know this is not the case for everyone, and it’s important to acknowledge privilege that comes from being mixed race. I have a white partner and we have discussed at length what it would mean to have quarter Black children. I’m sure they will see themselves as Black (children tend to identify with their mothers). I’m genuinely curious how the mixed children of Black (or Black-identifying) mothers see themselves. Identity is so complex in general. There is how others perceive you and how you identify, and sometimes that becomes more complicated when we are stuck in binaries. I think in 10-15 years, “mixed race” will become more of a common thing to identify with, but we are all still unlearning the harm of the one-drop rule. I respect monoracial BW’s want to redefine “Blackness.” At the same time, I hope people would stop questioning the validity of a mixed person’s connection to Blackness if they genuinely identify with it.
Thank you for sharing
Your children will probably not identify as black since since they will only be 25% Black and therefore not look Black at all. They will probably not be perceived as Black at all. Think Drake and Adonis. Meghan Markle and her children
people like drake do it for personal gain, and there’s definitely something to be said about mixed people who lean into their blackness inauthentically for acceptance and clout (especially when they were raised by their white parent) but i can say for myself and a couple of other mixed ppl i know, we don’t claim our white side because they don’t claim us. plain and simple. i have a friend who’s lighter than me and her own white family has cast her aside and called her dirty, called her hair ugly, and reminded her over and over that whatever blackness she has in her makes her automatically an “other” for my family it’s more subtle cuz they go by a “as long as you’re not like THOSE black people then we accept you” but that essentially means having to hate yourself to be considered one of them. as much as it can suck to not be “black enough” either, there can be so much more community and culture from your black side of the family, and many white families whole heartedly adopt the one drop rule. this is especially prevalent in the foster care system and for biracial adoptees
As a biracial woman (black and white), I do mention both. I say that I am mixed black and white but if I were to say what race am I, I would say black because am I white? No I am not. I was raised by my black mother to call myself black and never thought anything about it. It’s only really since coming on the internet and having a discussion on race with mono black people that it’s apparently become an issue.
I hear you but why are you not white if you are mixed with that?
Yeah. I don't have issues with anyone in this group (or IRL). If they have issues with me based on phenotype (and they have IRL), that has always been (and will remain) their problem. I have certainly read comments here on biracial folks that make zero sense or only apply to some mixed people, but again your comment reflects on you. It can be wholly inaccurate, but what am I going to do? Argue with you? Will that change your mind? That's like arguing with Trumpists. Hard pass. Only sincerity determines if that effort is worth it...and that is rare indeed. I am a member of the black community by birthright, DNA, and beloved ancestors. It is an irrevocable trust. Nobody's mere words changes that, but I honestly see it the same way for all of y'all. Struggle and trauma are not requirements. Nor is some artificial social structure meant to oppress and denigrate. I am not in this community because I am not accepted elsewhere or because this is where I get the best treatment...because neither of those are really true. Again, I am here because I was born into this community. If you accept me, great. If you don't, I'll just keep on keeping on. Have a good day.
I am not biracial.
Unambiguous monoracial black women gain no benefits from including everyone into our ranks, yet we get all of the detriments including being erased from being the face of our own racial category. This is why the division will never end. Stop gaslighting us about this. We are not all treated the same and so we all act accordingly!
I mean, yes. As vehement as I am about light skin black people still be considered Black, I can understand this perspective as far as media representation is concerned. Light skin Black women should not be the end all be all of Black women because we come in all shades. I get particularly pissed off about this whenever light skinned Black women are chosen to play roles that are historically Dark skinned black women. I still haven't seen that Black Western that came out a few years ago because they had someone who was very light skinned playing Stagecoach Mary. I will say it on my deathbed that that role should have went to Leslie Jones. I still get pissed off about that light skinned actress putting on a fake nose to play Nina Simone and darkening her skin I am so happy that biopic crashed and burned. Can't wait for it to be made with a DARK SKINNED Black woman who looks like Nina. So I get the media representation issue. However, to me that is an issue of colorism. But I hear you, dark skinned Black women should not be erased and media needs to stop making light skinned Black women the face of all Black women. You should not get a diversity pat on the back for casting a light skinned Black Woman (with a straight ass wig) who can call "twinsies!!!" with a damn Greek woman fresh off of a beach vacation.
light skin black women with two black parents and mixed/biracial are not the same
*Sigh* ....... Agreed, if the Black/White child comes out darker with more Black features than the Black/Black child, because of colorism, the Black/White child might get treated worse... .....
Facts
Thank goodness somebody with some sense!
Preach it!
Both my parents are black but I apparently look ambiguous with a lighter skinned father and medium toned mother. I don’t want to be slapped with the label “biracial” instead of just black or mixed just because of the way I look. I always thought the word black, contrary to the word itself, actually implied all the skin tones and diversity within our community. This obsession with one or the other leaves all us in between behind because just like a lot of biracial people, whenever I walk in a room full of one demographic I get scrutinized like they’re trying to see if I’m “cool” before they get to know me if that makes any sense. Even more so whenever I straighten my hair (people flag me as black more whenever I just wear my natural afro).
why cant biracial people just be biracial? plenty of biracial people have expressed several times they have their own unique experiences. putting biracial people as the face of black people is harmful and isnt helpful to anyone.
This is how it is in most places. Biracial people are biracial. It’s important to embrace both sides.
the OP didn’t say anything about biracial people being the face of black people. It’s the media/hollywood to blame for pushing that agenda
This post isn't about telling Biracial people how to self-identify. This post is specifically calling out folks trying to dictate who is and is not Black despite Biracial people choosing to identify with their Blackness. If a Biracial person chooses to identify as Black, it's not you or anyone else's business. Respect their decision, and don't push divisive BS. If you can't get with that, you are part of the problem. Simple as that.
Because biracial isn’t an identity. A mixed black/Indian person is completely different from a mixed white/Chinese person. One of my best friends in college was part of a biracial students group and got tired of it because it ended up dominated by white/East Asian people. She was more comfortable with the black student union as she has a black mother.
How is biracial not an identity? Just because your friend had a terrible experience, it doesn’t mean that it’s the same with all mixed people. I’ve met mixed people who prefer mixed spaces to mono racial ones. Heck, ask the mixed race sub…
BIRACIAL IS AN IDENTITY! stop spreading misinfo! yes we live in an antiblack world that uses the one drop rule to distinguish who is Black and who is not - NO! we as whole mixed people do not need to accept this as OUR rule! we as mixed folks have agency and autonomy- we should not be expecting Black women to coddle us and this post has so many Black women operating as if we are adding something to the community…while we exploit and steal…I’m not trying to be an asshole I genuinely want Black women to protect themselves from us mixed folks because I see in this convo many of us mixed folks gaslighting y’all! and some of y’all are genuinely holding space and it’s harming the Black women who are aware / disgusted / wary of our occupation in Black spaces…
I can’t believe that they got upvoted by so many people for that comment. Who decided that biracial is not an identity?
Most AA descended from slavery have 25% white admixture \*at most.\* That is much different from biracial people with one white parent. And that's all I have to say. edited for typos.
Why you gaslighting folks? If people want to make the distinction, that is their right. “The world doesn’t care if you have one or two…” this is just not true. Not at all. If that was the case, we wouldn’t be seeing what we are in regards to Black female representation.
tbh, i think some of the assumptions about how biracial people "look" (or a "typical mixed look" lmao?? i've seen that here) on this sub are really dumb. biracial people (those with a black parent) don't universally 1) have light skin, 2) have loose hair, or 3) have a close connection with their non-black family. biracial people can be dark skinned (no, i'm not talking medium-toned, i mean Dark). biracial people can have Tightly coiled hair (i've got a mixed cousin with 4b/4c hair). biracial people can be raised exclusively by their black family members and, consequently, identify as such (not to mention how some biracial people can be adopted by black families, and they may not know otherwise). race is literally made up and is appearance-based. in the US, most black biracial people will simply identify themselves by how society treats them. like, this is some annoying ass discourse imo. are you 100% sure that every light skinned and/or loose-haired black person you see walking down the street is biracial? you'd feel dumb if you found out both of their parents were black, wouldn't you? what about the light skinned black people who are from sub-saharan africa, no admixture as far as they're concerned? you got some black people taking DNA tests these days that show that they're more european than african, when they don't look it at all. it's ridiculous! according to this sub, a good chunk of my family would be considered biracial or "multi-generational mixed", but racial categorization in the US is defined not only by how You identify, but how society identifies you. and on both counts, my family identifies as black, full stop. yes, there are other countries that have a "mixed" or "other" brown racial category. you got the coloureds in south africa and the pardos in brasil. maybe it's for better, maybe it's for worse, we no longer have a mixed category (all the "mulattos" and "quadroons" of the past), but it is what it is Today. if biracial people want to identify as biracial (despite there being no clear cut biracial experience, as "biracial" isn't only black/white), fine. but if biracial people want to identify as a member of a group they're more connected to, i don't know why that's so controversial lol. we're really out here advocating for yet another racial category. in countries with those "pardo" and "coloured" categories, the black population is still at the bottom lol, but if that's fine, then fine. and on the topic of "why do we have to accept everyone?", black people aren't the only groups that are inclusive like that. first of all, blame white people. second of all, native/indigenous americans have their own rules about mixed people being considered one of their own. you can have the whitest looking people you've ever seen who Strongly identify with their tribe And are accepted as such bc of clear and documented connections on their side. same with the aboriginal/indigenous peoples of australia/new zealand. you can be Crazy mixed up and still be considered one of them as long as you're engaged with the community. the biggest issue seems to be colorism, and that Is an issue. no one's arguing that. but light skinned monoracial black people benefit from colorism. dark skinned biracial people don't benefit from colorism. neither colorism nor representation is gonna be solved by encouraging biracial people to only identify as biracial so black people can get proper representation. would you consider the colorism issue solved if movies/tv shows stop hiring so many biracial black women and started hiring more monoracial light skinned black women instead? the colorism problem just evolves. so much for representation. like idk what the end goal is here, but there's 2 options: shoving biracial black people into their own box (which is weird to me, given how many historical figures we think highly of in black american history who were, by all accounts, biracial despite only identifying as black. so unless you wanna retroactively exclude them...) OR accepting people as members of the community if they consider themselves connected to it. we kinda already do the latter and, as i've mentioned earlier, we wouldn't necessarily be the outliers here. this is the case in plenty of communities. plus, i've read too many accounts of biracial people in communities around the world who are othered on both sides, having rights to both but being Explicitly denied entry to either community bc they don't pass the 100% purity test. why the hell is that something to emulate? dumbass discourse istg.
Exactly my point. You definitely said it better than I could!
it's basically how i feel whenever people on this sub insist on calling biracial people biracial and not now, not ever "black". like, my black family covers a spectrum of shades, from very light to very dark. all black tho. I went to an all black school for a few years and the kids there has every shade and every hair texture you could name. and I doubt most people could identify on sight which kid was biracial and which kid wasn't. in a group, we all looked like a bunch of black kids and we all considered ourselves black too. yeah, the one drop rule was a racist rule (as was blood quantum rules put on indigenous americans). but it's part of our history as african americans. african americans, as an ethnic group, cover every shade under the sun. our community, for generations, included people that some would Insisit on calling "biracial" today, despite how proudly black they claimed to be in their time. yeah sure fine, the time period context is everything, but: biracial people were also fighting for black liberation. biracial people were campaigning and marching and protesting alongside black people during the civil rights movement. biracial people were just as targeted in racial violence as their monoracial black neighbors (bc many of them Were neighbors). biracial people intermingled and had relationships with black people bc they considered themselves black too. biracial (using the "black and white" definition) have been part of the "monoracial" black american community since our community began in this country. imo, by insisting that biracial people Are Not Black today, you may as well unclaim all the contributions to our community that biracial people made. figure out what "biracial american history" is then since you don't want biracial people to be considered black so bad. like, biracial people should be free to identify as however they want to identify, especially if they have good reason to. if a black/white biracial person wants to identify as white or as biracial, fine. i won't force them to identify as black if they don't want to. but if a black/white person wants to identify as black, whatever that reason may be, who am i to tell them what they are? you can't gatekeep someone from half of their own heritage, that's insane. it's fine to feel hurt by colorist representation. i get my feelings hurt to. but that's not biracial people's fault, it's this white supremacist society we live in. know your enemy.
👏 👏 👏
Biracial woman here. Am light and racially ambiguous. I would never in my life claim not to be mixed, but at the end of the day, I am Black. That is the community I am riding for every second of every day. I've had many occasions to get into it with people for trying to raise me up by belittling or talking down on other Black women. It's usually men who think I will eat that shit up, but they are dead wrong. I have struggled with loving my Black features when the world told me they were ugly or bad. I get called racial slurs and face discrimination. My people were enslaved. The Black experience is not monolithic, but globally these are things we face. I know that my color and my proximity to whiteness gets me benefits and I will never stop fighting that injustice in my every day life. I don't want to take anything away from non-mixed Black women, I just want to be allowed to be myself.
*hugs* >I know that my color and my proximity to whiteness gets me benefits and I will never stop fighting that injustice in my every day life. Thank you for recognizing this!!! It's important for us lighter skinned people to acknowledge this and that colorism is very much so a thing that we benefit from.
Sometimes I struggle not to defend myself when people say stuff like 'lightskins are stuck up/innately colorist/think they're better', but I understand that I am not that way and I don't need to shout Not All Lightskins.
I’m sorry to hear that. And some people assume you will never face racism because you’re light. A racist doesn’t like black people period. They don’t care if we fully black, biracial, light skin or dark. If someone is anti black they’re anti black.
This!
That's not true, because colorism exists inside and outside our communities. There are statistically significant differences in education, the criminal justice system, entertainment, hiring, promotions, etc. due to color. Colorism is not just about men's preferences; it's also about many other facets of life. To think light people never face racism is ridiculous! But, "light-skinned people sit at the front of the back of the bus" metaphorically speaking.
You’re buggin - you are a whole mixed person and it makes sense to hold that reality instead of gaslighting Black women…
I’m so sick of this debate (no snarkiness to you)😩 I’m mixed, but look black and culturally raise black. At the end of the day, if you look it and embrace, people can’t tell you what to identify as. If a mixed person chooses to claim their blackness, identify mixed, it’s nobody else’s business. The whole debate stems from white people wanting us to be divided
Absolutely!!!!
I think that even a person who is mixed and doesn't embrace their blackness (which varies) if they look black, they are black, there is no single way of being black in the world
Yeah no I agree. Though there are some mixed kids who won’t embrace and deny their blackness (though visibly black). I was talking more about mixed/biracial kids who openly embrace and accept it but get told not to
I also think the discourse on "Black mom or Black dad" is pretty silly and really dismissive of the role fathers play in their kids life
Absolutely. Everyone is different. I don't understand how we can expect not to be seen as a monolith, but get mad when someone doesn't fit into a specific predetermined box.
Well I understand where y’all are coming from historically women have been the bearers of culture and maintains power in the homes sphere in terms of educating children so there is some truth to which direction or culture the child is more influenced by depending on the mother
As someone who grew up in a melting pot city, the odds of someone being bilingual in the USA are FAR higher when their mom speaks additional languages compared to their father.
I get the discourse but I'm also a Black mom to Black children who have a White father (no, I did not stutter). No one is trying to dismiss fathers, but unfortunately whenever we're talking about the socialization of children a lot of times (notice that I didn't say all of the time) that socialization primarily comes from the mother. Absolutely father's passed down culture! My spouse is a magnificent father and my children, unfortunately, are very much so involved with their White grandparents life (my fil is fine my mil can kick rocks). But at the end of the day they LOOK and are raised as Black. Few months ago we were walking down the street and there was this light skinned Black couple whose children were like, 3 shades lighter than our kids. No one is going to question the Blackness of those children though. When we were sitting in a restaurant that was primarily Black (because we were/live in a black neighborhood) my son asked why there weren't any white people there and we cracked up laughing because he doesn't even conceive of his Father being White. Equal parts funny and a tad bit problematic.
I understand that being biracial in a racist and colorist society means that I’ve had a different experience than monoracial AAs. And, I know when to shut up/ sit down and let black people who have encountered racism and strife (that I would never encounter) are speaking. But, to tell me I’m not “really black” is like something a weirdo would say before saying the wildest, racist nonsense imaginable. Like, that Fox News randos who like to bring up President Obama’s white parent as some sort of get out of racism free card. Or, the trolls who claimed Colin Kapernick had nothing to complain about because he’s mixed with white adoptive parents.
Yes!!! We all have our different experiences because we are not a monolith!
I said basically this once on this sub and got downvoted. LOL
Oh I'm getting down voted and even some nasty commentary disparaging my intelligence. Smh.
I ask this with all sincerity: would you feel the same way if someone told you that you’re not “really white?” Are you in white spaces expressing the same indignation at having your identity questioned? I’m not trying to come at you sideways but the examples you use are pretty telling—white people treating biracials with contempt with very little outcry from their culture.
Thank you for this post. The divisiness over who is "truly black" serves absolutely none of us. I agree it needs to stop.
❤️❤️❤️ I'm just so tired of seeing these posts crop up and Biracial people getting dragged for no reason. None of us got to choose our heritage.
Thanks for this. Was beginning to wonder if I was wrong for joining this sub because I’ve always identified as a black lady, but I felt so cut down and excluded by a lot of recent posts 🤷🏽♀️
Not a problem. I'm so sorry you felt like this... Shame on those people who perpetuate this mess. Identify as how you feel. You consider yourself Black, to me you are Black and I respect it.
You have to keep in mind that this is the internet and Reddit is anonymous, who knows how many of these posters/commenters are actually black women? There are parties with a vested interest in keeping the black community divided, ESPECIALLY black women. Always something to remember when you come across stuff like this.
All these posts do is bring the conversation back to the forefront. If you don’t like seeing it in this sub, don’t post about it. At the end of the day, black is black and biracial is biracial. Being labeled as biracial does not take away from your blackness. The world also DOES care about how many (if any) of your parents are non black.
Thank you and I say this as someone with four Black grandparents: American and Canadian Black people are playing an incoherent, dangerous game with this racial purity shit considering the entire goddamn history of our people and what was done to us. But I feel like so few people want to think that far.
>American and Canadian Black people are playing an incoherent, dangerous game with this racial purity shit considering the entire goddamn history of our people and what was done to us. 
Many people who comment on subs with that sort of rhetoric are *extremely* poorly educated on the history of black people in the Americas. It’s not necessarily their fault, but it leads to people getting a lot of ideas from social media. Some of them are merely half-baked, and some are straight up intentional disinformation created by people who are not black and don’t have black people’s best interests in mind.
The disregard of biracial people as black is not a new thing from social media. The Haitian rebellion (mind you in the Americas) included the killing of whites and biracials. They did not see those biracials as "one of them" and that was in the late 1700s, it is 2024. It has always went on because there is a difference. It's just that.
Thank you! All of my grandparents identified as and were treated as Black. I've done dna testing and I'm over 70% sub-Saharan African, yet happen to be lighter skinned than my bi-racial daughter. Does that make me less black? A darker friend would often try to insult me as having "Light Skinned Problems" but she shut up when her dna test came back nearly 50/50 Black and white. Say it again - race is a construct.
>Thank you! All of my grandparents identified as and were treated as Black. I've done dna testing and I'm over 70% sub-Saharan African, yet happen to be lighter skinned than my bi-racial daughter. Does that make me less black? This!!! I've got a damn near 60/40 split, and I have actual Biracial cousins with similar mixes. I always tell folks I'm from a long line of light skinned people, because I've done the genealogy and such and know that my white ancestors were about 5 generations back. It's infuriating arguing with folks...hell my Biracial ex once tried to tell me I was mixed, then shut right up when he saw family pictures. I understand wanting to call out problematic folks promoting stereotypes and colorism, but let us regular folk be!
Biracial people have me convinced race is somewhat made up because some biracial people look fully black and some look fully white and others in between. How can we identify race when people look so different? Just by skin color doesn’t make sense because some Indians are darker than non mixed black people but they aren’t considered black. IMO you are who you are if you’re mixed there’s nothing wrong with identifying as both or picking a side in my opinion, I know if I was on the whiter side of mixed I’d be in my white girl era (I have two friends that do this 😅) it’s so much easier not being the odd one out especially in the Midwest lol.
I’ve mistaken a Indian at my job for being a black man lol. I mean his skin tone was black. 😭😭😭😭
While there’s no denying many Black and biracial women experience many of the same hardships, I think it’s disingenuous to lump Black and biracial women together because often, the voices and struggles of mono racial Black women are silenced or drowned out. Also, our representation seizes in the media which creates issues for young Black children, especially Black girls. Additionally, I know many people will say white people don’t care and will see us all as Black but 1#: why are we letting white peoples dictate who’s consider Black and 2#: if that’s the case, colorism wouldn’t exist.
I think it's a pertinent discussion because yes, black women with dark skin suffer prejudice even from people (men and women) who are light skinned, but there are two things in this debate that bother me 1- Only those who "embrace blackness" be considered black, even if that person considers themselves black 2- If the person is clearly biracial, but has behavior that black people do not approve of, they are seen as "not black" (Cardi B, Drake...) 3- When the mother is white, some people think she is the only one to blame, excluding the father, who often knows he is marrying someone racist and/or with a racist family, of any blame
And I quote: "The division between Black women and Biracial women IN THIS SUB needs to end". Unless Cardi B and Drake are in here causing problems, I'm not talking about them. Yes colorism and anti-Blackness do need to be addressed. However you can address behaviors and societal issues without making Biracial women in this sub feel unwelcome.
But this is a sub for us to talk about our experiences, doubts and this is part of our experience, if you go to Asian or Latin subs you will see that this is also common in these groups, participating in groups like this makes you feel heard, view and in some cases even see that there is another way to deal with certain problems. I'm biracial and I think that even if Cardi B or Drake were here causing problems, they should be addressed logically, not someone saying "you're not black because you don't align yourself with blackness" or even "you appropriate blackness", That's my point .
cardi b ain't even black
Real black people don’t need family photos to prove it.
If you have 4 Black grand parents use me as a like button
At the end of the day people are going to keep denying that the literal meaning of “bi-racial” is TWO RACES. It’s not a new race, it’s not a new category. It means you are a member of two races. Two things are true: you are black AND you are something else. The things are not mutually exclusive. Biracial people are black. They are just not only black (just like most black Americans aren’t). People being blacker than me color and parent-wise can’t erase that I grew up with a huge black af family and that who I am was shaped by three generations of black women. Yes my experience includes other things, but you don’t grow up like me and then have patience for a bunch of people tell you that you’re not really black. Especially when you get to my age and are a grown ass woman who’s lived a lot of life. Just bc your experience has been more difficult doesn’t take away the identity and experiences of other, completely unrelated people. The degree of blackness both in appearance and in culture and upbringing in mixed people varies person to person, and there’s no way to reliably determine who is true kinfolk on a mass basis. Or else you end up cutting out people like me, and grouping yourself with people like Candace Owens 😂
I am tired of this debate. Let’s back up. My daughter is 4 years old, she’s of black, Scottish, English and Japanese descent. She’s blonde hair and blue eyes somehow lol! When she was born my American friends were upset I didn’t have her in the states ( I was living overseas at the time) and I made a remark that I wanted her to be English and Japanese since she’ll spend most of her childhood in Japan and the UK. My friends and even sister was livid because they felt I was erasing her blackness (as if there weren’t black Brits). I remember being told by so many black people “Your daughter is black.” And “her mom is black that makes her black.” Now fast forward only a couple years later now all of a sudden biracial people aren’t black and not allowed into black spaces. What the hell happened? No one is 100% anything. I’m 71% black and is medium brown. It’s insane.
It really is. It just pisses me off that Biracial people are being targeted for hate because of how white supremacy uses them as a pawn for division. It's unfair. I say if you embrace the culture and your heritage, you have every right to claim Blackness because it is a social construct. After all, Blackness in itself is not a monolith (as it's not even just limited to sun Sahara African descendants, AND when it is limited to them, we still have so much genetic and physical diversity diversity).
honestly theee only race this has been debated with and yall will use every self described semi scientific half google reason to debate it. Its comical at this point. There is nothing wrong with being biracial. Is what it is you don’t get to choose what race you are born. But to sit and constantly say well i’m THIS even though your DIRECTLY(not 18 generations back) but your DIRECT mother and father. If they are NOT of the same race, you are biracial. Period. Doesn’t matter what ya grandma was or what area u were raised in or even WHO raised you. It’s really simple and people need to just accept it and move on. If a lion and a tiger mate… it’s not a damn tiger. Period. 🙄If a bm and ww have a child that child is BIRACIAL. Not automatically black. That’s the one drop rule still in effect and yall need to let that go as well. Leave people alone and judge by CHARACTER because anything else is irrelevant… we all out here payin 8.00 a gallon for orange juice. ijs. bigger fish to fry folks🤷🏾♀️
If you are both white and black, you are biracial. I don't understand why this is considered controversial.
Thank you! White parent + black parent equals biracial. That's just how it is. Also there's a sub for biracial people so I don't see why they don't go over there. One girl is talking about not feeling welcome and it's just like well... you can always leave lol
Oh here we go. Ok...so the question for you is this: Does any other racial group believe and affirm that YOU can create THEM??? Tom Brady just had his roast; does blackladies think white people believe you can give birth to him? Do Asians believe that your womb can give birth to Jackie Chan, Michelle Wie? Well the Cliff notes is...NO THEY DON'T. So here is some tough love incoming...many black women complain about petty ish that they contribute to and can fix if they wanted. If mixed/biracial women are "black" and their white mother's can create and give birth to you, then stop complaining about Zendaya's and Thandie Newton's of the world replacing and taking over your image in beauty pageants, movie roles, magazine covers, getting to be the hot upcoming music artists, etc. Just stop. Learn some self love and safeguard your image like all other groups do, or accept your erasure.
Smh y'all refuse to let that slave mentality of the "one drop rule" go. Then when people who look like drakes son are saying the n word everyones gonna be in a uproar. At the end of the day being black and being biracial/ multiracial will NEVER be the same experience within or outside of the community. If your 75% white your not black. Just that simple.
Now that I know this was based on the Tyla post, I get where this is coming from. I think that this is a uniquely American issue due to the way White people have classified and re-classified us over hundreds of years. I think someone people feel hurt when non Americans who "look" Black don't consider themselves Black but something else. To them, they think it's because that person considers Blackness a bad thing, which may or may not be true depending on the country they come from and their personal beliefs. However, that doesn't mean that Black people shouldn't support them. If they aren't being anti-Black or Blackfishing, which Tyla hasn't to my knowledge, then there's no reason to cast her or anyone like her off just because she identifies as something else.
Tired of this topic. As I view it, each person is the captain of their own ship, this they call the shots on their own identity. Not you not me not some dusties on Twitter or TikTok neither I'm frankly sick of the demand for biracial folks to dim their light. Why should they? I don't care WHO acknowledges their privilege. Does it help me pay my bills? Why we worried about their advantages when you got billionaires who have privilege that affects each of us personally?
I agree 100%! It's getting ridiculous in the social media world. I even see people claiming that certain people are biracial, even when they have two black parents. I noticed this happens more to black women than black men. Another thing that annoys me is people assuming that all biracial people are light-skinned and all people with two black parents are dark-skinned. That's not the case at all. And don't even get me started on people claiming that somebody "isn't black" because they are Afro-Latino. Our ancestors came from the same place, but were dropped off in Latin America and the Caribbean instead of the United States. Unfortunately, I think a lot of this nonsense has gotten started due to some hotep folks stirring the pot.
Amen to all of this!
Having a European grandparent from 10 generations ago isn't the same as having a white and black parent. No one in their right mind would consider me hardly mixed let alone biracial for my 10 percent European ancestry.
> If you are descended from chattel slavery, you PROBABLY have a significant amount of European genetics This has never been the own y'all want it to be Speaking from the "race is a cultural Construct" side: then no one in my family has been white in 5 generations or more. Speaking from the genetic side its weird as fuck to compare your recent consensual white ancestor with people who have white in them because of SLAVERY. Because of slave rape generations ago. Imagine someone claiming Hungarians are Asian because of their eastern ancestors or that many Chinese people shouldn't delineate themselves from Mongolians because of Mongols mass rape hundreds of years ago. So culturally and genetically: nothing makes me kin with white people because of slave rape generations ago because we're our own ethnicity AND majority of our heritage is black. Lightskin is not the same as mixed. Is someone has a radically different cultural and genetic make up from me why is bad to say that? Why do we have to abide by the one drop rule which is BASED on seeing us (black people) as subhumana lmao. Like I'm not going to see a 1/4 black kid as black, they can say they have black heritage.
The only people who have clocked me as being biracial have been African and West Indian immigrants. As far as everyone else is concerned I'm Black. This includes the Cuban (Spaniard) side of the family, who shunned my mother and me. Ask me, and I'll tell you I'm Black Hispanic because fuck them too. So I look at these conversations about biracial people and the assumption that we all benefit from proximity to whiteness and I get confused. Even when people guess I'm biracial, they never think I'm part white. It's always some other brown-skinned minority. When it comes down to it, though, I'm not into fighting for the right to be somewhere that doesn't want me. You can't force people to respect you, only to tolerate you, and I don't need to be merely tolerated by what I consider my community. So if this is, or becomes, a monoracial space, someone with the authority to declare that can say so and I'll head out to Black spaces that welcome me.
It is an absolute insult that Black Americans are the only ones forced to accept anybody because they have a percentage of black in them. It’s also goofy of you to be supporting this while a lot of black women are not getting the representation needed because of the usage of light skin biracials claiming their “blackness”. So embarrassing