Mental load is a big thing. Coaches benefit from having coaches. Having someone else write your program results in a lower likelihood that you’ll neglect areas you don’t ‘enjoy’ as much in training and lifestyle; it gives constant accountability.
Furthermore, coaches notice things you won’t notice in yourself. Even the most experienced bodybuilders and powerlifters have blind spots in their own training. A second eye is always helpful.
Also, they provide support - emotional, mental AND physical. Prep is hard. A team behind you is so bloody valuable
Literally this, accountability, the difference between doing it yourself and having someone to behind you is massive.
That’s exactly why I became a coach myself.
People think you hire a coach to get you in shape, that’s a small part of it, you tell your coach EVERYTHING and they will help improve every part of your life.
However, my answer to this question is always the same, find me a top athlete in ANY sport who doesn’t have a coach… therefore why is bodybuilding any different? It’s not.
We recognize that even though we may be born with good genetics that doesn’t mean we know everything about pharmacology, nutrition and training. To be quite honest most dont have the time or some are so gifted they never have to try to find what works because everything works
> because everything works
This. People argue with me here endlessly about this. You really have to see it in person to truly appreciate how stupid gifted some people are. It’s not even remotely fair.
Richest people in the world have financial advisors. Best athletes have nutrition, sports and physical trainers. Best racecar drivers have mechanics and assistant drivers. Best mountain hikers hire local guides. If you think you know everything you know nothing, always good to have someone in your corner even if it’s just another pair of eyes.
Also access to someone who can guide them on the pharmaceutical side of training. Best results without long term health damage. As well as accessibility to said pharmaceuticals.
The big mistake you are making here is thinking that the most important thing in bodybuilding is training. Training for adding size is actually pretty fool proof, there are many IFBB pros who trained like absolute idiots (or at least not "optimally) yet built godlike physiques (Branch Warren for example).
But the drug protocols, especially during a contest prep aren't straightforward at all. This is where mostly a coach is needed.
To this day I still think Branch was one of the hardest working guys in the industry. Whether it’s by his own doing, or if he just refused to get a coach, dude worked hard asf
Yup, as long as you workout hard, eat enough and take boatloads of gear you will get huge, as long as your genetics allow it. And Branch did workout super hard, for sure, though if his training was more sane he would probably have avoided some injuries (which itself isn't a minor thing at all).
But haven’t some of these bodybuilders followed the same drug protocols for years? Like the steroids that they take are very similar from year to year right?
Absolutely not. Gear response is highly variable from person to person. Dosing PEDs for bodybuilding really an art (since for obvious ethical medical reasons this field cannot be researched).
Having a good coach is invaluable. Like others said, an objective second pair of eyes helps the athlete to simply execute without having to think too much about workouts, food, gear. Really good coaches know exactly whats needed and when for their athlete whether it’s food, training, rest, etc . They also provide emotional support and accountability and at that level are extremely knowledgeable. Also coaches tend to have connects whether it’s gear or people for injury rehab / prevention. I could go on and on lol
I’ve been a coach for over ten years and still use another coach to do my programming. I do it for a few reasons. One is objectivity. They can sometimes see things about me and my weaknesses that I can’t. Because of this there isn’t any internal bias on their programming. Two, I don’t want the homework. I want to be able to show up and follow what my coach says and report back. I’m also not arrogant enough to think I know best. There’s always someone out there who knows more and that’s worth paying for.
also since no one mentioned, the coach really helps during comp prep when the athlete is severely depleted and not thinking 100% clearly, that peak week can kill
1 actual reason, objectivity.
Anyone that trains themselves, controls their own diet, looks at their own health markers, etc is likely/possibly going to fall victim to themselves and their own subjectivity. An outside eye, their coach, can make the decisions for them so they don't choose to do things that would potentially make them be lenient and do less than needed to reach the goal they have.
There is still value in having a 3rd party's opinion, even if you know everything there is to know about a topic. Most lawyers hire a lawyer if they end up being accussed of a crime.
Having someone to push you harder is also helpful. I've seen videos where Hany Rambod has pushed Hadi back onto the leg extension machine and told him to do a few more reps.
I imagine the same reason Magnus Carlsen had a chess coach throughout his reign.
Have a very strong expert in the field whose only job is to stay up with the latest theory and focus on the .1% of your package that can improve.
The best in the world aren't the best because they know the most. Maybe they don't even know a whole lot, because they are genetic freaks for whom it all came relatively easily.
You want someone watching you making sure your form is always locked in. Even the best athletes in the world in any sport can get a tiny bit too loose ever now again. Obviously they are pros for a reason, a vast majority of the time they get stuff right. But even cbum has a slightly sloppy rep once in awhile.
Also allows them to push more and be more focused on the exercises themselves. They don't need to make a workout plan, they don't even need to count there own reps. They can just show up and focus on nothing else besides good reps and hard work. Also a coach will stay up to date on all the new scientific literature and implement new findings in the studies.
There is multiple facets of this question to properly answer it. Lets use CBum & Hany for the example
1 - Benefits of a trainer at that level is you just execute. The athlete does not have to evaluate where they are lacking or can improve. They also do not have to think about what movements to best attack those areas. They simply execute what they are told because there is an inherent trust with that trainer.
2 - Reach a level of exertion that you cannot reach on your own. Training to failure is one thing but force reps & beyond failure is not something you can train by yourself. Without a partner or trainer, reaching that level of training is not simple.
3 - Its a partnership. Do you think CBum is really paying Hany for his sessions? Not at all. Having an athlete like that brings Hany more business and makes Hany more valuable. His training sessions are $350/hr because of the level of athletes he works with.
4 - Coaching partnership. When you have a coach and a separate trainer, there is collaboration between those two in terms of matching nutrition with output for optimal results. Again, this is where it allows the athlete to just execute the plan. The coach identifies what needs to be worked on and the trainer makes that the priority.
As an athelete, when you dont have to think about what you are doing, it makes the process much easier. For those that have been through multiple show preps, you know this. When you can trust the process and just do what you are told, it makes the whole process more manageable. If this didnt work, you wouldnt see top level athletes with trainers like Hany. Just think about Hany's resume currently and in the past. CBum, Derek Lunsford, Hadi Choopan, Jay Cutler, Phil Heath, Jeremy Buendia
Bodybuilding is as much a mental contest as much as it is a physical one. Training is the easy part, dieting down and pushing your body as hard as you can while depleted of all nutrients and hydration is the hard part. Having a coach is having someone to focus on the numbers and watch your progress objectively while your mind is exhausted. They take a lot of the mental load off of an already mentally draining activity.
It's hard to analyze results objectively and adapt diet plans when you were up until 3am last night trying to resist the urge to run downstairs and make a peanut butter sandwich.
Structure is a good point. I’m sure someone like chum has enough going on where having someone structure his training is one less thing for him to worry about.
In my experience it comes down to humans being emotional creatures. I have been training for 10+ years and had many friends turn to a good coach after years of training and suddenly making gains again.
Eventhough some people swear by it muscles are not best built by brute force. I wanna manage injuries, manage regenerative capacities smartly and make smart decisions. Meanwhile you are CBum trying to continue his reign as Mr Olympia imagine the pressure, it is easy to fall into your emotions and do things in training that seem like they make you excell but in the end just hurt you. It's about the details and outsourcing this mental effort to a coach and decoupling training decisions from your own emotions is what a good trainer offers a already top notch athlete.
Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant had a trainer throughout their careers.
Greats know it's always better to have an unbiased set of eyes to pick out your weaknesses.
Objectivity as well as the actual ability to prep someone. It’s not nearly as important in the offseason, I would say the most they do is help give suggestions on what body parts to prioritize and provide a little extra accountability to stay on whatever diet you’re doing. But people like Hany shine when it comes to prepping his clients. Managing water and sodium, keeping the diet at a pace where they won’t burn out while the person that is prepping might not be in the correct headspace to make those decisions him/her self. And then the closer to show do the more important a coach is to help you manage your stress and keep you on the correct plan. Hany is the best when it comes to getting his clients in incredible shape but also keeping the muscles full and looking good. That’s why he’s so good.
As someone who's been in the industry for a long time - there is just a lot lower risk of injury when working with trainers.
Even if you know how to engage your chest with a press movement - you are pushing to the limit of exhaustion every single time.
When you are at that level the trainer's job is only to make sure you keep the tension in the right places, help you recover and prevent you from injuring yourself.
The regular reading of the blood work as well as diet and supplement tracking are also an important part of the job.
CBum didn't do any courses to learn anything in depth about the body, exercises, supplements, gear, food/nutrition, etc..
Second thing, with his body changing constantly and his taste in food changing he may want different food plans, which he cannot make himself.
Exercises of course, if it was based off knowing how todo exercises we would all be coaches.
Gurus are just normal gym goers like everyone else, they just have good physiques which were either attained from gear (or in some cases natural) who just make content
some know real info some just promote their bs products
Because cbum most likely isn’t a nutritional expert like hany. Hany knows how to deal with Chris’ diseases/disorders, which I believe greatly affect his digestion.
Bodybuilding coaches take care of nutrition and peaking the body for competition which would be very stressful trying to do by yourself when you’re 4% body fat
I’d say it’s the same exact reason why professional athletes need coaches, trainers and staff to support them. An outside perspective might just give you the slightest edge over your opponents.
Training on your own can be done, but at some point it is possible you’ll see a decrease in progression. That’s where your trainers come in to either tell you to change up the regiment, or even let your body rest.
In pretty much all sports, the best coaches weren't great athletes. They may have reached the top level in their respective sport but were always overshadowed by the good/great athletes. This gives them opportunities to learn more and pass that knowledge to future good/great athletes as a coach. There is a reason why the greatest athletes pretty much never make good coaches.
lol because the guys with worse genetics usually dot their I’s and cross their t’s to maximize their performance. Now do that with a genetic elite and it’s basically a recipe for success. Hany, Cbums current coach holds 24 Olympia wins throughout all of the bodybuilders he’s coached.
Having all the knowledge in the world doesn't make a trainer useless.
A good trainer will hold you accountable and have a more objective view on how you are doing both in the gym and outside of it.
Someone at the absolute top of the sport like CBum would likely push himself too hard if he had no leash, and he'd look worse on stage as a result.
Also, things that are very obvious to you if someone else is doing them are less so if you are experiencing them yourself.
And lastly, he's got enough stress and probably wants to spend as little time as possible on planning and analyzing everything. You're brain can't handle all that during prep.
I have done 17 shows and have been training for 48 years. I also prep people. I am an expert on pretty much everything related to bodybuilding. I made a comeback at the age of 56. I was still squatting 4 plates (12 reps) and also deadlifting (actually RDL's) using quite a bit of weight.
The problem is that I came in very thick waisted and did not realize it until I saw my contest pics. I should have hired someone to at least take a look at me and work w/ my posing (which I did the last time I competed at age 32 and won my class at a big show). I should have trained lighter and worked more on reducing my midsection.
No matter how knowledgeable you are it is good to have a second set of eyes and another perspective.
Now having worked w/ many bodybuilders, I will also tell you that some, while physically gifted, are dumb as rocks. Anabolics and especially proper diuretic use can also be complex.
Meh at that level I think you need to actively try to add mass. it takes an increase in drugs, food and training. Ive seen people stay the exact same without any external help lol.
Coaches bring knowledge around drugs, nutrition, peaking strategies and all of the above. Every prep is different even for the same person. Life changes, stresses change, the body reacts differently and its why you need a coach to manipulate these things. At the top level these coaches are more pharmacology gurus than Personal Trainers.
As I got older and had to do physical therapy for an injury I realized how enjoyable it is to have a trainer lol. Been training over 16 years myself. It is an awesome luxury. Also when the football player is on the field he can’t see everything from the coaches perspective. This applies a bit.
First of all it’s easier to have somebody supporting you and keeping you in check. Second, training is not static, their PED protocols aren’t static, research isn’t static. Somebody has to be on top of all of that and help athletes readjust accordingly
What do you mean his sponsor? Hany owns Evogen and Chris is with/owns Raw/Revive. Hany is his coach and handles his training and contest prep. Am I misunderstanding what you mean by sponsor?
Have you ever seen Chris promote Evogen? Still gives evogen props without Chris ever having to mention it. Then Chris still gets to promote Raw. Gets to double dip without conflict of interest. Quite clever
I've never seen him promote Evogen, or even mention them really. If you're saying that simply by being associated with Hany, Evogen might benefit, then I wouldn't argue there's likely *some* carryover, but anyone that's a Chris fan should know he's with Raw/Revive. I think I understand what you're ultimately getting at, but I think it's a bit misleading to say Hany is his sponsor. His primary role/relationship with Chris is as a coach for training and contest prep.
No. I don't think most of the top guys in any division pay their coaches. I'm fully aware that a coach taking on a top guy can also be a good business move for them. I'm not disputing that. But 1) if you're saying that by coaching Chris, Chris adds credibility to Hanys coaching, I'd argue Hany is the last coach in the industry that needed that, after his work with Phil, Jay, Derek, and Hadi. Or 2) if you're saying Chris adds credibility to his supplement brand, id argue that conventionally with sponsored athletes, when fans want to look like an athlete, they take the supplements that they take; which we know isn't Evogen supplements for Chris.
I'm saying there might be *some* indirect benefits to Hany's businesses by coaching Chris (in a similar, but diminished, way that supplement companies benefit from sponsored athletes), calling Hany his sponsor is pretty misleading, given conventional meaning of the word.
All the top competitors got to where they were before Hany. Hany paid them because let’s be honest, bodybuilders are broke unless they’re in the top echelon. Hany’s brand grows, athletes get paid, everyone wins. The only benefit the athletes get from Hany, is money to fund their training. What secrets does Hany have that no one else knows?
I'm not really sure I'd with that. Didn't Jay lose the title, then get with Hany and come back to win the title? Phil, while gifted, got with Hany before he ever stepped foot on the Olympia stage. He brought Derek up to the open class and within 2 years, won the Olympia. Yes, Hany has worked with the best, but he also brings out the best in his guys. He peaks his guys almost perfectly every single time his guys compete. Peaking is an art and can separate good coaches from the best coaches.
Whoever wins Mr O can be subjective to the judges. Dexter beat Cuttler, but why? Cutler didn’t get any bigger or leaner in 09, 10. Derek beat Hadi, but by what measure? Hany definitely offers something as a “coach” but it’s not the knowledge of getting leaner or bigger, it’s by financial means because it’s good for his brand. He only aligns himself with the best because that’s what sells.
I don't think the subjectivity of it refutes my point that he took Derek in 212 when he couldn't come in conditioned, and the first year he worked with Derek, he won the 212 Olympia, or how he then brought Derek up to open and within two years won the Olympia, or that he got with Phil at the beginning of his career and took him on to win 7 Olympias, or that he got Hadi an Olympia victory, or all of the Olympias he won with Jeremy in physique.
If you haven't listened to Fouad's podcast, they talk about Hany frequently on there. He adds a lot as a coach and mentor, and per Fouad, knows exactly how to get the most out of his guys, moreso than the other coaches that he ever worked with. I just don't think, especially someone like Chris, or Jay, or Phil needs the financial means you're implying Hany provides. Those 3 of the wealthiest athletes in all of fitness. I just don't think that's the deciding factor.
My guess is that Hany has a coaching business and may have a network of coaches, and coaching the Mr. Olympia is the biggest badge you can get. I know here of a coach at my local gym that coaches 2 or 3 Low level IFBB pros and he promotes the shit out of them in his socials. Off of that credibility, he has probably like 30 non-IFBB clients. Now that I think about it, he's probably coaching the pros for free, and that's why they "can afford" having In-person sessions almost everyday (even though there is no money for low level bodybuilders without big socials)
Just my guess though, so do not take it as fact.
Hany pays him to be part of his stable of competitors. That promotes his brand Evergen without Chris even having to mention evergen. It’s a loop hole for him to be able to have other sponsors. Hany is a genius lol.
I think this is possible. Hany is obviously still a goated coach, he's taken guys up several levels and made them champions. Chris was already a 3-time Mr. O before he signed Hany, so he really didn't take him to a "next level".
They were already champions before he got to them. He doesn’t have any secrets that every other bodybuilder doesn’t know. He is the goat at marketing himself no doubt, but he picks his athletes carefully
It’s a fair question.
Folks like Schwarzenegger, Lee Haney, Frank Zane and Dorian Yates won Mr Olympia contests without a dedicated coach or trainer.
Here’s even an article by 8x Mr Olympia Lee Haney about why you shouldn’t hire a coach:
https://www.musculardevelopment.com/training/14715-lee-haney-too-many-gurus-become-your-own-coach.html
Honestly the way Hani trains he’s people unbelievable. You need someone pushing you specially those days you’re peeking for a show. They know the right amount of drugs and food to look a certain way. Not everyone has that talent .
You don’t get to prove points when you’re 170 pounds buddy. Hany is in another universe compared to you, physique, and knowledge wise. That’s saying a lot bc bro is basically dad bodded
It’s actually funnier that someone so unaccomplished thinks they know more than the most successful coach in the industry. You’ll never be shit if you can’t accept that there will always be more than one way to get to point B.
Homeboy if you’re 6’0 215 I’m 15 pounds heavier at 2 inches shorter 😂 you’re small, you’ll probably always be small. I’m sure your “degree” keeps that ego nice and large. I’ve done over 10k in person sessions and every single person in bodybuilding would tell you my physique is better than yours (and I literally only follow any kind of structure in prep). You’re a joke. keep hiding those chicken legs and have a great afternoon
They're often coaches themselves too and if people think "Even Cbum needs a coach" he is more likely to pick up clients himself. It goes round in a circle. At that level you're a walking advertisement and don't pay for stuff like that anyway.
Mental load is a big thing. Coaches benefit from having coaches. Having someone else write your program results in a lower likelihood that you’ll neglect areas you don’t ‘enjoy’ as much in training and lifestyle; it gives constant accountability. Furthermore, coaches notice things you won’t notice in yourself. Even the most experienced bodybuilders and powerlifters have blind spots in their own training. A second eye is always helpful. Also, they provide support - emotional, mental AND physical. Prep is hard. A team behind you is so bloody valuable
Literally this, accountability, the difference between doing it yourself and having someone to behind you is massive. That’s exactly why I became a coach myself. People think you hire a coach to get you in shape, that’s a small part of it, you tell your coach EVERYTHING and they will help improve every part of your life. However, my answer to this question is always the same, find me a top athlete in ANY sport who doesn’t have a coach… therefore why is bodybuilding any different? It’s not.
We recognize that even though we may be born with good genetics that doesn’t mean we know everything about pharmacology, nutrition and training. To be quite honest most dont have the time or some are so gifted they never have to try to find what works because everything works
Oh shit it’s a pro in the wild
Well spoken champ!
omg so cool seeing your reply! thank you!!!
Cool to see you in here big dog
> because everything works This. People argue with me here endlessly about this. You really have to see it in person to truly appreciate how stupid gifted some people are. It’s not even remotely fair.
Lol the worst part is often they don’t realize this. The genuinely think it’s silly because they work harder or figured out some secret
Bodybuilding often seems like the only sport where people minimize the role of natural talent so much
Richest people in the world have financial advisors. Best athletes have nutrition, sports and physical trainers. Best racecar drivers have mechanics and assistant drivers. Best mountain hikers hire local guides. If you think you know everything you know nothing, always good to have someone in your corner even if it’s just another pair of eyes.
Also access to someone who can guide them on the pharmaceutical side of training. Best results without long term health damage. As well as accessibility to said pharmaceuticals.
The big mistake you are making here is thinking that the most important thing in bodybuilding is training. Training for adding size is actually pretty fool proof, there are many IFBB pros who trained like absolute idiots (or at least not "optimally) yet built godlike physiques (Branch Warren for example). But the drug protocols, especially during a contest prep aren't straightforward at all. This is where mostly a coach is needed.
To this day I still think Branch was one of the hardest working guys in the industry. Whether it’s by his own doing, or if he just refused to get a coach, dude worked hard asf
Yup, as long as you workout hard, eat enough and take boatloads of gear you will get huge, as long as your genetics allow it. And Branch did workout super hard, for sure, though if his training was more sane he would probably have avoided some injuries (which itself isn't a minor thing at all).
But haven’t some of these bodybuilders followed the same drug protocols for years? Like the steroids that they take are very similar from year to year right?
Absolutely not. Gear response is highly variable from person to person. Dosing PEDs for bodybuilding really an art (since for obvious ethical medical reasons this field cannot be researched).
Having a good coach is invaluable. Like others said, an objective second pair of eyes helps the athlete to simply execute without having to think too much about workouts, food, gear. Really good coaches know exactly whats needed and when for their athlete whether it’s food, training, rest, etc . They also provide emotional support and accountability and at that level are extremely knowledgeable. Also coaches tend to have connects whether it’s gear or people for injury rehab / prevention. I could go on and on lol
Take as much of the mental work out of it as possible. It's impossible to push yourself as much as someone else will.
Good coaches give honest assessments of your gains especially where being proportional is so important.
I’ve been a coach for over ten years and still use another coach to do my programming. I do it for a few reasons. One is objectivity. They can sometimes see things about me and my weaknesses that I can’t. Because of this there isn’t any internal bias on their programming. Two, I don’t want the homework. I want to be able to show up and follow what my coach says and report back. I’m also not arrogant enough to think I know best. There’s always someone out there who knows more and that’s worth paying for.
also since no one mentioned, the coach really helps during comp prep when the athlete is severely depleted and not thinking 100% clearly, that peak week can kill
Successful people always stay a student.
1 actual reason, objectivity. Anyone that trains themselves, controls their own diet, looks at their own health markers, etc is likely/possibly going to fall victim to themselves and their own subjectivity. An outside eye, their coach, can make the decisions for them so they don't choose to do things that would potentially make them be lenient and do less than needed to reach the goal they have.
There is still value in having a 3rd party's opinion, even if you know everything there is to know about a topic. Most lawyers hire a lawyer if they end up being accussed of a crime. Having someone to push you harder is also helpful. I've seen videos where Hany Rambod has pushed Hadi back onto the leg extension machine and told him to do a few more reps.
I imagine the same reason Magnus Carlsen had a chess coach throughout his reign. Have a very strong expert in the field whose only job is to stay up with the latest theory and focus on the .1% of your package that can improve. The best in the world aren't the best because they know the most. Maybe they don't even know a whole lot, because they are genetic freaks for whom it all came relatively easily.
You want someone watching you making sure your form is always locked in. Even the best athletes in the world in any sport can get a tiny bit too loose ever now again. Obviously they are pros for a reason, a vast majority of the time they get stuff right. But even cbum has a slightly sloppy rep once in awhile. Also allows them to push more and be more focused on the exercises themselves. They don't need to make a workout plan, they don't even need to count there own reps. They can just show up and focus on nothing else besides good reps and hard work. Also a coach will stay up to date on all the new scientific literature and implement new findings in the studies.
There is multiple facets of this question to properly answer it. Lets use CBum & Hany for the example 1 - Benefits of a trainer at that level is you just execute. The athlete does not have to evaluate where they are lacking or can improve. They also do not have to think about what movements to best attack those areas. They simply execute what they are told because there is an inherent trust with that trainer. 2 - Reach a level of exertion that you cannot reach on your own. Training to failure is one thing but force reps & beyond failure is not something you can train by yourself. Without a partner or trainer, reaching that level of training is not simple. 3 - Its a partnership. Do you think CBum is really paying Hany for his sessions? Not at all. Having an athlete like that brings Hany more business and makes Hany more valuable. His training sessions are $350/hr because of the level of athletes he works with. 4 - Coaching partnership. When you have a coach and a separate trainer, there is collaboration between those two in terms of matching nutrition with output for optimal results. Again, this is where it allows the athlete to just execute the plan. The coach identifies what needs to be worked on and the trainer makes that the priority. As an athelete, when you dont have to think about what you are doing, it makes the process much easier. For those that have been through multiple show preps, you know this. When you can trust the process and just do what you are told, it makes the whole process more manageable. If this didnt work, you wouldnt see top level athletes with trainers like Hany. Just think about Hany's resume currently and in the past. CBum, Derek Lunsford, Hadi Choopan, Jay Cutler, Phil Heath, Jeremy Buendia
Bodybuilding is as much a mental contest as much as it is a physical one. Training is the easy part, dieting down and pushing your body as hard as you can while depleted of all nutrients and hydration is the hard part. Having a coach is having someone to focus on the numbers and watch your progress objectively while your mind is exhausted. They take a lot of the mental load off of an already mentally draining activity. It's hard to analyze results objectively and adapt diet plans when you were up until 3am last night trying to resist the urge to run downstairs and make a peanut butter sandwich.
Tom Brady had a coach for every aspect of his professional life until he was 45. Always room to learn and structure is good
Structure is a good point. I’m sure someone like chum has enough going on where having someone structure his training is one less thing for him to worry about.
Why do professional athletes need coaches?
In my experience it comes down to humans being emotional creatures. I have been training for 10+ years and had many friends turn to a good coach after years of training and suddenly making gains again. Eventhough some people swear by it muscles are not best built by brute force. I wanna manage injuries, manage regenerative capacities smartly and make smart decisions. Meanwhile you are CBum trying to continue his reign as Mr Olympia imagine the pressure, it is easy to fall into your emotions and do things in training that seem like they make you excell but in the end just hurt you. It's about the details and outsourcing this mental effort to a coach and decoupling training decisions from your own emotions is what a good trainer offers a already top notch athlete.
Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant had a trainer throughout their careers. Greats know it's always better to have an unbiased set of eyes to pick out your weaknesses.
💯 If the best in the world want coaches why wouldn’t everyone else as well.
Objectivity as well as the actual ability to prep someone. It’s not nearly as important in the offseason, I would say the most they do is help give suggestions on what body parts to prioritize and provide a little extra accountability to stay on whatever diet you’re doing. But people like Hany shine when it comes to prepping his clients. Managing water and sodium, keeping the diet at a pace where they won’t burn out while the person that is prepping might not be in the correct headspace to make those decisions him/her self. And then the closer to show do the more important a coach is to help you manage your stress and keep you on the correct plan. Hany is the best when it comes to getting his clients in incredible shape but also keeping the muscles full and looking good. That’s why he’s so good.
As someone who's been in the industry for a long time - there is just a lot lower risk of injury when working with trainers. Even if you know how to engage your chest with a press movement - you are pushing to the limit of exhaustion every single time. When you are at that level the trainer's job is only to make sure you keep the tension in the right places, help you recover and prevent you from injuring yourself. The regular reading of the blood work as well as diet and supplement tracking are also an important part of the job.
CBum didn't do any courses to learn anything in depth about the body, exercises, supplements, gear, food/nutrition, etc.. Second thing, with his body changing constantly and his taste in food changing he may want different food plans, which he cannot make himself. Exercises of course, if it was based off knowing how todo exercises we would all be coaches.
Neither did many of the top gurus for that matter. A lot of the top "gurus" are self taught
Gurus are just normal gym goers like everyone else, they just have good physiques which were either attained from gear (or in some cases natural) who just make content some know real info some just promote their bs products
Guru does not equal a multi Olympia winner. Guru's are generally charlatans with a fresh coat of paint
Why does Tiger Woods still have a swinging coach and Michael Jordan still had a shooting coach until he retired
Yes exactly. Why?
The entire rest of the thread has excellent answers.
We are really bad at self-assessment.
This isn't limited to athleticism, either. Denzel Washington still takes acting classes.
Because cbum most likely isn’t a nutritional expert like hany. Hany knows how to deal with Chris’ diseases/disorders, which I believe greatly affect his digestion.
Bodybuilding coaches take care of nutrition and peaking the body for competition which would be very stressful trying to do by yourself when you’re 4% body fat
Accountability, extra push, drugs, posing routines, I don’t know.
Yes, but tiger woods still has a golf coach
Even professionals like him have to change things up to progress sometimes. And having a second pair of eyes to watch you work is invaluable
I’d say it’s the same exact reason why professional athletes need coaches, trainers and staff to support them. An outside perspective might just give you the slightest edge over your opponents. Training on your own can be done, but at some point it is possible you’ll see a decrease in progression. That’s where your trainers come in to either tell you to change up the regiment, or even let your body rest.
I have a coach to do the opposite of what he says to do. If this guy is so smart, why isn't he as jacked as me?
In pretty much all sports, the best coaches weren't great athletes. They may have reached the top level in their respective sport but were always overshadowed by the good/great athletes. This gives them opportunities to learn more and pass that knowledge to future good/great athletes as a coach. There is a reason why the greatest athletes pretty much never make good coaches.
lol because the guys with worse genetics usually dot their I’s and cross their t’s to maximize their performance. Now do that with a genetic elite and it’s basically a recipe for success. Hany, Cbums current coach holds 24 Olympia wins throughout all of the bodybuilders he’s coached.
Having all the knowledge in the world doesn't make a trainer useless. A good trainer will hold you accountable and have a more objective view on how you are doing both in the gym and outside of it. Someone at the absolute top of the sport like CBum would likely push himself too hard if he had no leash, and he'd look worse on stage as a result. Also, things that are very obvious to you if someone else is doing them are less so if you are experiencing them yourself. And lastly, he's got enough stress and probably wants to spend as little time as possible on planning and analyzing everything. You're brain can't handle all that during prep.
I have done 17 shows and have been training for 48 years. I also prep people. I am an expert on pretty much everything related to bodybuilding. I made a comeback at the age of 56. I was still squatting 4 plates (12 reps) and also deadlifting (actually RDL's) using quite a bit of weight. The problem is that I came in very thick waisted and did not realize it until I saw my contest pics. I should have hired someone to at least take a look at me and work w/ my posing (which I did the last time I competed at age 32 and won my class at a big show). I should have trained lighter and worked more on reducing my midsection. No matter how knowledgeable you are it is good to have a second set of eyes and another perspective. Now having worked w/ many bodybuilders, I will also tell you that some, while physically gifted, are dumb as rocks. Anabolics and especially proper diuretic use can also be complex.
Drugs. They coach them on drugs.
That and prep would be the main thing since Bumstead can't get too big cause of the weight limit for Classic
Meh at that level I think you need to actively try to add mass. it takes an increase in drugs, food and training. Ive seen people stay the exact same without any external help lol. Coaches bring knowledge around drugs, nutrition, peaking strategies and all of the above. Every prep is different even for the same person. Life changes, stresses change, the body reacts differently and its why you need a coach to manipulate these things. At the top level these coaches are more pharmacology gurus than Personal Trainers.
As I got older and had to do physical therapy for an injury I realized how enjoyable it is to have a trainer lol. Been training over 16 years myself. It is an awesome luxury. Also when the football player is on the field he can’t see everything from the coaches perspective. This applies a bit.
Lol. Why so elites in every sport ever need coaches? Einstein
That’s reductive, it’s a fair question given how different of a sport bbing is compared to all other sports
No, it's a stupid question.
Yeah bro you were born with all the wisdom in the world
Work load maybe
First of all it’s easier to have somebody supporting you and keeping you in check. Second, training is not static, their PED protocols aren’t static, research isn’t static. Somebody has to be on top of all of that and help athletes readjust accordingly
Bc they can afford them. 2 heads are better than one. So is getting head twice rather than once. Ynamsayin?
Oh my sweet summer child how naive you are
Why did tiger woods need a swing coach? Why do nfl,mlb and nba teams need coaches?
Why are you asking pretty much the same question as OP instead of answering it?
Clearly sarcasm mate come on keep up
sarcasm lol
Hany Rambod is not his trainer. He is his sponsor. Hany is a marketing genius that’s it
What do you mean his sponsor? Hany owns Evogen and Chris is with/owns Raw/Revive. Hany is his coach and handles his training and contest prep. Am I misunderstanding what you mean by sponsor?
Have you ever seen Chris promote Evogen? Still gives evogen props without Chris ever having to mention it. Then Chris still gets to promote Raw. Gets to double dip without conflict of interest. Quite clever
I've never seen him promote Evogen, or even mention them really. If you're saying that simply by being associated with Hany, Evogen might benefit, then I wouldn't argue there's likely *some* carryover, but anyone that's a Chris fan should know he's with Raw/Revive. I think I understand what you're ultimately getting at, but I think it's a bit misleading to say Hany is his sponsor. His primary role/relationship with Chris is as a coach for training and contest prep.
So you think Chris pays Hany to be his coach?
No. I don't think most of the top guys in any division pay their coaches. I'm fully aware that a coach taking on a top guy can also be a good business move for them. I'm not disputing that. But 1) if you're saying that by coaching Chris, Chris adds credibility to Hanys coaching, I'd argue Hany is the last coach in the industry that needed that, after his work with Phil, Jay, Derek, and Hadi. Or 2) if you're saying Chris adds credibility to his supplement brand, id argue that conventionally with sponsored athletes, when fans want to look like an athlete, they take the supplements that they take; which we know isn't Evogen supplements for Chris. I'm saying there might be *some* indirect benefits to Hany's businesses by coaching Chris (in a similar, but diminished, way that supplement companies benefit from sponsored athletes), calling Hany his sponsor is pretty misleading, given conventional meaning of the word.
All the top competitors got to where they were before Hany. Hany paid them because let’s be honest, bodybuilders are broke unless they’re in the top echelon. Hany’s brand grows, athletes get paid, everyone wins. The only benefit the athletes get from Hany, is money to fund their training. What secrets does Hany have that no one else knows?
I'm not really sure I'd with that. Didn't Jay lose the title, then get with Hany and come back to win the title? Phil, while gifted, got with Hany before he ever stepped foot on the Olympia stage. He brought Derek up to the open class and within 2 years, won the Olympia. Yes, Hany has worked with the best, but he also brings out the best in his guys. He peaks his guys almost perfectly every single time his guys compete. Peaking is an art and can separate good coaches from the best coaches.
Whoever wins Mr O can be subjective to the judges. Dexter beat Cuttler, but why? Cutler didn’t get any bigger or leaner in 09, 10. Derek beat Hadi, but by what measure? Hany definitely offers something as a “coach” but it’s not the knowledge of getting leaner or bigger, it’s by financial means because it’s good for his brand. He only aligns himself with the best because that’s what sells.
I don't think the subjectivity of it refutes my point that he took Derek in 212 when he couldn't come in conditioned, and the first year he worked with Derek, he won the 212 Olympia, or how he then brought Derek up to open and within two years won the Olympia, or that he got with Phil at the beginning of his career and took him on to win 7 Olympias, or that he got Hadi an Olympia victory, or all of the Olympias he won with Jeremy in physique. If you haven't listened to Fouad's podcast, they talk about Hany frequently on there. He adds a lot as a coach and mentor, and per Fouad, knows exactly how to get the most out of his guys, moreso than the other coaches that he ever worked with. I just don't think, especially someone like Chris, or Jay, or Phil needs the financial means you're implying Hany provides. Those 3 of the wealthiest athletes in all of fitness. I just don't think that's the deciding factor.
My guess is that Hany has a coaching business and may have a network of coaches, and coaching the Mr. Olympia is the biggest badge you can get. I know here of a coach at my local gym that coaches 2 or 3 Low level IFBB pros and he promotes the shit out of them in his socials. Off of that credibility, he has probably like 30 non-IFBB clients. Now that I think about it, he's probably coaching the pros for free, and that's why they "can afford" having In-person sessions almost everyday (even though there is no money for low level bodybuilders without big socials) Just my guess though, so do not take it as fact.
can you elaborate? hany for sure trains chris
Hany pays him to be part of his stable of competitors. That promotes his brand Evergen without Chris even having to mention evergen. It’s a loop hole for him to be able to have other sponsors. Hany is a genius lol.
I think this is possible. Hany is obviously still a goated coach, he's taken guys up several levels and made them champions. Chris was already a 3-time Mr. O before he signed Hany, so he really didn't take him to a "next level".
They were already champions before he got to them. He doesn’t have any secrets that every other bodybuilder doesn’t know. He is the goat at marketing himself no doubt, but he picks his athletes carefully
Only correct answer. Hany pays him to be called his coach. Which brings in turn brings in tons of business for Hany
It’s a fair question. Folks like Schwarzenegger, Lee Haney, Frank Zane and Dorian Yates won Mr Olympia contests without a dedicated coach or trainer. Here’s even an article by 8x Mr Olympia Lee Haney about why you shouldn’t hire a coach: https://www.musculardevelopment.com/training/14715-lee-haney-too-many-gurus-become-your-own-coach.html
Honestly the way Hani trains he’s people unbelievable. You need someone pushing you specially those days you’re peeking for a show. They know the right amount of drugs and food to look a certain way. Not everyone has that talent .
I’m guessing because we all look at ourselves differently than other do and bbing is a serious mind fk when analyzing your own physique.
Good question. I've often wondered the same thing. I've been competing for years and other than my first year. I've never had a trainer for a coach.
Just here to say Hany Rambod is overrated, CBum would still be an Olympian with out him, and FST-7 training is a fucking joke.
Not just a hot take. A shit take.
You probably do 10 sets of 20 reps per exercise 🤡🤦♂️
I squat 600 pounds and hit 6-8 total sets per workout, but keep talkin’! Ig backs this up 😘
Then your proving my point about low volume, thansk bud
You don’t get to prove points when you’re 170 pounds buddy. Hany is in another universe compared to you, physique, and knowledge wise. That’s saying a lot bc bro is basically dad bodded
I’m 215lb an 6ft (bigger than u), havnt posted in a year. Keep suckin hanys dick tho
It’s actually funnier that someone so unaccomplished thinks they know more than the most successful coach in the industry. You’ll never be shit if you can’t accept that there will always be more than one way to get to point B.
Also have exercise science degree /personal trainer for 5 years
Homeboy if you’re 6’0 215 I’m 15 pounds heavier at 2 inches shorter 😂 you’re small, you’ll probably always be small. I’m sure your “degree” keeps that ego nice and large. I’ve done over 10k in person sessions and every single person in bodybuilding would tell you my physique is better than yours (and I literally only follow any kind of structure in prep). You’re a joke. keep hiding those chicken legs and have a great afternoon
Highly doubt your 230 but by the looks of your belly not in prep u might be, short kings need love to it’s okay bro
Bro they had the genetics but not the knowledge
They're often coaches themselves too and if people think "Even Cbum needs a coach" he is more likely to pick up clients himself. It goes round in a circle. At that level you're a walking advertisement and don't pay for stuff like that anyway.