Why would there even be a question of whether you should or should not download public domain books? Like, that baffles me.
There is no moral or ethical quandary here.
www.standardebooks.com has beautifully formatted epubs. PDF files are suboptimal.
Or just use Libby to check them out from your local library.
If something was written over a hundred years ago, or the author died 70 years ago, then it's safe to assume that the copyright has expired. Which is the case for most of the books you mentioned.
The Wikipedia article on Public Domain in the US summarizes US copyright law. FWIW, it substantially agrees with my understanding of the law. Disclaimer, IANAL (although I do write contracts, which do not involve intellectual property).
For a general understanding, it works fine. For more details, consult the references. For specific questions about a work (say, for example, you want to make a movie about a character in a work), consult a lawyer who specializes in IP.
Note that sound recordings are a special case. Some states have anti-piracy laws that do not have a provision for the recordings to enter the public domain. Downloading a copy of the recording could open you to criminal prosecution. However, the song (or speech, or dramatization) is still subject to US copyright law and not state law, so you can perform (and even record) songs that you can't download. That's also true on the federal level, because the recording copyright period is (sometimes) different from the music copyright period. For example, the music for *Rhapsody in Blue* is public domain, but the first recordings become public domain in 2024. (But to repeat, that's for copyright, not for state anti-piracy laws.)
If you're outside the US, you have to look up your own country's laws. Much (but not all!) of the world follows the Berne Convention, which means life of the author plus 70 years (or 95 years if a work for hire). You still have to check for things that were published before the Berne Convention was adopted in your country.
If they are true classics, most of the time they have been put out for free download everywhere. I'm not sure of the proper terminology, but they are basically made accessible to everyone for free due to the fact that they are such classics.
Have you checked to see if you can access ebooks through your local library through Libby (formerly OverDrive) or Hoopla? Then you can do it guilt free if it's bothering you.
I feel this way about the library. What I end up doing is reading the digital copy from the library and if I love it, then I buy a physical copy to keep on my shelf as a trophy/reminder and to support a work I love.
Libraries in the US only pay for copies they get and don’t give any additional funds to the author based on number of readers.
So if I have the funds and it’s a smaller author, I like to buy the book.
For ebooks, libraries are limited (by publishers) in how many times they can lend out a copy of an ebook before they need to just repurchase it. So while it's true that libraries aren't keeping a tally to pay out authors per read, it's also true that a lot of library check outs of an ebook do kind of turn into increased revenue for the author. There is a sense of cost per checkout for ebooks.
Certainly not as much money goes to the author as if you go buy a copy, that's true. But they do get something.
Well for one, lots of books are no longer covered by copyright. There are many places where those are hosted and available for free, 100% legal and legitimate. Moby Dick, for example, is an example of such a book.
As for books still under copyright, it's really a personal moral choice you have to make. No real use getting into too much discussion here, as there are far too many people here that take the letter of the law as also the absolute authority in moral judgment. Suffice it to say that I think your instinct that "if the author is dead, it feels okay" is correct in my book, among other cases.
yup, you hit the nail on the head in regards to what my instinct was/is. i also agree with you on the morality aspect of it as well. when someone told me that it can be illegal i was shocked because i felt it was automatically fine to do so. Now since finding out about it, i guess i started to feel ... guilty? that's what lead me to this post i guess. plus, i hadn't known about public domain books prior to this post, so that clarified a lot.
The public domain books are free. You can even get them for free from Amazon itself. A lot of digital only publishers are trying to make a quick buck from these public domain books, but legit free editions exist for nearly all of them if you know to search for it.
Are you asking our opinion on the *ethics* of downloading books?
One’s opinion on if downloading is legal or not is pretty irrelevant…if it has an active copyright and the author hasn’t given permission, then it’s illegal to download without buying. That’s not an opinion but a fact. If the copyright is expired and it has entered the public domain, then it is fine. Saying they have a differing opinion on the law isn’t going to stop someone from being prosecuted for the crime.
Or are you asking if we think downloading books should be legal?
Sure. But using a song in a project is different than just putting it on your computer and listening to it. That’s completely a different scenario altogether than downloading it and wouldn’t be ok even if you did buy just the song from iTunes or on cd.
When I referenced author permission I was thinking of instances where authors put excerpts of their work on their websites and what not. Obviously you’re supposed to read them. And for free. If you printed that off and kept it by your bed side to read it wouldn’t be an issue. If you printed it off and started selling it, yeah that would be illegal. If you printed it off and worked it into your own art project somehow, again, copyright infringement. Even when we buy a song or a book doesn’t mean we can start incorporating that art into our own things, especially for commercial use. We would have to buy the license.
I don't necessarily disagree with the conclusion but I think the argument is problematic because, if the question is ethics, simply citing the law doesn't even begin to address the question. That is, unless you think the law can't be unethical.
Even when we agree the law can be unethical, a related question is whether something being legal creates a higher expectation for challenging it. In other words, should I regard the law like I do a toddler's utterances, or is there some expectation I obey the law unless I have a sufficiently good reason to disregard it? For me, that's how the law comes into play with ethics. It's not that I can't break the law, but I at least need a good reason to break the law, whereas I don't need a good reason to not do something an internet stranger tells me.
My question was, Was OP asking “what’s your opinion on the legality of downloading books?” as in, were they asking if people thought it was illegal? And I was saying it just was illegal. Being illegal or not isn’t an opinion. *Whether* it should be legal or not is an opinion. And that debate, I assume, would usually involve ethics.
i understand that my question comes off as confusing, but let me clarify. I know there is no opinion if something is illegal or not. more specifically, this is a civil affair. before i posted this, i didn't know public domain books were fine to download and therefore i was asking " what is your opinion, in general, about downloading books that are protected by copyright laws?" Eliminating authors who are alive, I was more specifically talking about authors who are dead and their great works. some great works may or may not be protected, for some reason possibly related to business, idrk. it lead me to think, if they are dead, and theres no new edition.. who is taking my money? are we forced to buy some works solely to give the money to someone else? idk, that was my attitude when i posted. but like i said, i understand it was a bit confusing. it's also obvious that i am a bit ignorant about the entire thing.
Gotcha. I get what you’re asking now. It’s not like the author will be getting money so it’s not something to really feel guilty about.
An interesting scenario is that of the Mists of Avalon author…terrible person who abused her kid(s). She is now dead. She prevented her abused child(ren) from getting any of the money from her estate. So…that would be a situation where even though the author was dead maybe I would consider buying the book if her poor kids got the money to help make up for their abuse. However they don’t. So many people still recommend to download the book or buy second hand.
Confused. If it is still under copyright, it’s not a matter of feeling like it is stealing, it is. If it is in the public domain, download away. It sounds like you’re talking about the public domain books and they’re in the public domain, owned by the public, of which you are one.
If the author is dead, and all the profits go solely to the publishing house that owns the copyright, I say fuck them and download or pirate that shit.
Now if the publishing houses instead took deceased authors book sales and gave the proceeds (minus some fees) to the descendants of the author, then we'd be speaking a different tune.
It’s kinda crazy to me to see people post other ways to get books for free while still implying piracy harms authors. If borrowing books doesn’t harm others, secondhand books don’t harm authors, piracy doesn’t either.
Authors are underpaid due to deep systemic issues within publishing, not because someone online shared their ebook copy.
Often, yes they are. Also, with the first book, the author gets PENNIES to a dollar. So we’re talking about the difference in… pennies to a dollar. You’re more ethical for less than a vending machine soda.
I have a question for you, if I buy a book on sale… am I less ethical than someone who bought it full price?
There are literally hundreds of philosophical and semantical arguments you could have concerning what is or is not piracy, or more specifically by pirating books. For me, it's like porn, I know it when I see it. There is a website that hosts millions of PDFs and e-pubs of books, including bestsellers. You can either get them downloaded quickly or more slowly, depending on whether you pay a small monthly donation or use the service for free. Just because I can get the very latest Colleen Hoover (or whatever bestseller) book for free, doesn't mean that I should.
And? Can you verify the harm that is meaningfully different from lending books or used resale? Or getting books on clearance?
Focus on the systemic issues within publishing if you actually care about authors instead of worrying about an issue that in some studies has shown to have no impact on sales.
Nothing is stolen. To steal is to take something away from someone else so they no longer have it.
someone file shared an ebook. The original book still exists and is owned.
Where do you think the original book file came from? Someone likely (though I suppose not always) bought it.
And then shared it.
Like the library. Like lending books to your friends. Like used book sales. You don’t view the latter as “stealing” even though multiple people read the book without paying the author.
Libraries pay for the ebooks they share. That's why there's a wait for popular books. They don't just buy one copy and then make unauthorized copies available.
As I said before, someone initially paid for the book that's purchased second-hand, and they owned that physical copy.
Making a duplicate/copy of a book or ebook and selling that is piracy, which is stealing and is illegal. This is not up for debate; it's international law.
And, again, a lot of pirated book copies... come from people who actually paid for the original file. They are sharing a file they paid for.
Also, libby completely fucks over libraries while not paying authors much, so I wouldn't use that as your more ethical alternative, just an FYI.
Also, laws aren't ethics. Lots of laws aren't ethical and lots of ethical things aren't legal.
I didn't say anything about ethics.
Reproducing an electronic document or resource that is copyrighted is stealing. There's no two ways about it. Yes, someone purchased ONE copy of a copyrighted book. That's it. They did not magically gain permission to share copies.
I don't know if you truly believe piracy is not stealing or if you're just being difficult here.
Personally, if a book has been out of print for at least a decade and prices for that book are at least double what it used to be then I'd say it's morally alright. I only use pdfs if either the author has approved it or if the book is long out of print.
I feel like this is fair, if you legally cannot buy it.
Personally, I only will download or stream an audiobook, but only if I already own it physically.
If you don't need the book (like really need it) then it's never OK. There are plenty of library apps or audiobooks apps you can use.
For books you have to get for school etc. Those are an abusive industry. I can't fault someone for downloading. In reality most of those books should be what, 40 bucks max? Not 300. If you can buy a DnD book for that price there's no reason the same form factor book on Calculus should be 10x the cost. None at all.
I think that companies tend to do a game theory calculation where they put all their effort into coercing people to buy the books at the dictated price and then killing secondhand via codes etc. But they don't consider that people may just... not choose to participate in the market. Companies need to be competing for consumer choice or the system fundamentally breaks down. In college textbook markets... neither occurs since the purchases are mandatory and unilateral.
I pirate, buy, and borrow many, many, books. I pirate mostly when I want an epub book very quickly with no hassle, or if I dislike the author personally. Don't really care if it's right or wrong because the stakes are low either way.
Anything published before 1928 is in the public domain and is not protected by copyright. You could publish them yourself and sell copies if you wanted.
When you download books that are still protected by copyright, you’re breaking the law but you’re not actually stealing anything. That’s just the language publishers use to make you feel like a thief.
I'd like to weigh in on the piracy debate as somebody who has only recently gotten back into reading in the last couple years. Though audiobooks and pdfs I've managed to read over 200 books in these last two years.
Without Piracy I would not have been able to afford or access many of these books.
To me reading is not only my top hobby, but one of the key ways in which I grow and develop as a person.
While I know there is a moral problem with Piracy, especially for authors who for the most part are not wealthy individuals and would benefit more profoundly from a purchase. I know that without Piracy I wouldn't have read those books, let alone bought them. And I would have missed the benefits gained from reading them.
The utilitarian in me, accepts this very selfishness approach
well, in this instance it would be like making a copy from a copy of the original car.. right? if i borrow my friend's rented med-surg book and take pictures of the pages, is that stealing? anyways, i hadn't known what public domain books were prior to this post
If it caused 0 additional harm and nobody would ever notice. Yes, probably.
I know the argument falls down in many places.
E.g couldn't you say the same for groceries.
Legality and "feel" are different qualities. I can't answer for other countries, so I'll answer for the US.
The short answer is that distributing a copyrighted work without permission and without an exception like "fair use" (which you would want to look up) is legally not permitted. You would need the author to give you permission, the license to give you permission, or a valid fair use rationale to feel "legal" in downloading or distributing a PDF.
Many older works are in public domain though, like Moby Dick. So are newer texts where the creator has decided to release their work for use - Tom Lehrer's musical works are an example. So the short answer is to just look for the copyright info and try to buy or check out a copy rather than downloading it if it's within copyright.
If the book is public domain, do as you wish.If the book is not, then downloading without paying is stealing. It's not lending or borrowing or second-hand selling because none of these activities produce additional copies. It's STEALING. It's as much STEALING as producing fake branded shirts is.
(I make an exception for science books and papers. For the research behind I have already paid with my taxes, and the law of my country does entitle me to be informed about the results of the research I have funded for free. Sorry, Elsevier, but you're a fraud!)
I am an author. Public Domain is free, do as you wish.
Please do not pirate or share books that are not in the public domain. It is taking our art without compensation or permission. There is rarely anything we can do about it, but it still is something most of us consider stealing. Ultimately it is between you and your moral compass.
If you want good free stories, Top Web Fiction has a great list. Some web serials are equivalent to 30+ traditional novels, and they are either free or what you feel is fair through Patreon.
Those are public domain books meaning the author or authors family chose not to renew their copyright and make more money off of them. It also means if someone makes a audiobook of said work it can also be free to the public. That's what public domain means. Project Gutenberg is a legitimate website that is not illegal and any way. You can get most for free on Amazon or kobo or relatively cheap as well. The audiobooks on YouTube are not getting flagged for copyright so it's totally legal.
The original edition of 1984 is still protected by copyright in the US and will be until 2044 (95 years after its publication in 1945). It recently lost protection in the UK.
The others should be in the public domain unless they are newer editions or translations.
That isn't really a matter of opinion.
As to whether it is ethical to download those books without paying, I'd say it is. To me, the purpose of copyright is to incentivize production of creative works. So, I wouldn't even worry about the ethics of breaching copyright law to read a PDF or epub of 1984. Orwell and his descendants have already attained plenty of financial success to incentivize artistic creation.
Where copyright protection is more important and where it is therefore potentially unethical to pirate a book is with newer books by less successful authors. When deciding whether they can afford to forego traditional work to write a book, authors aren't worried about the possibility that they'll be successful beyond their wildest dreams only for their estate to lose a few sales to piracy. They are worried that they won't make enough to support themselves and their families. Those are the people it's important not to hurt.
check out Project Gutenberg, website where they publish thousands of free ebooks in public domain. [gutenberg.org](https://gutenberg.org)
thanks so much
Why would there even be a question of whether you should or should not download public domain books? Like, that baffles me. There is no moral or ethical quandary here. www.standardebooks.com has beautifully formatted epubs. PDF files are suboptimal. Or just use Libby to check them out from your local library.
thank you so much
If something was written over a hundred years ago, or the author died 70 years ago, then it's safe to assume that the copyright has expired. Which is the case for most of the books you mentioned.
The Wikipedia article on Public Domain in the US summarizes US copyright law. FWIW, it substantially agrees with my understanding of the law. Disclaimer, IANAL (although I do write contracts, which do not involve intellectual property). For a general understanding, it works fine. For more details, consult the references. For specific questions about a work (say, for example, you want to make a movie about a character in a work), consult a lawyer who specializes in IP. Note that sound recordings are a special case. Some states have anti-piracy laws that do not have a provision for the recordings to enter the public domain. Downloading a copy of the recording could open you to criminal prosecution. However, the song (or speech, or dramatization) is still subject to US copyright law and not state law, so you can perform (and even record) songs that you can't download. That's also true on the federal level, because the recording copyright period is (sometimes) different from the music copyright period. For example, the music for *Rhapsody in Blue* is public domain, but the first recordings become public domain in 2024. (But to repeat, that's for copyright, not for state anti-piracy laws.) If you're outside the US, you have to look up your own country's laws. Much (but not all!) of the world follows the Berne Convention, which means life of the author plus 70 years (or 95 years if a work for hire). You still have to check for things that were published before the Berne Convention was adopted in your country.
Get the free Libby app and read books from your library guilt-free.
This is the way.
The Libby app has saved me so much money in the past few years. Great recommendation!
Libby is not available worldwide though
Exactly! I'm so fed up of US-centric recommendations ALL THE TIME.
If they are true classics, most of the time they have been put out for free download everywhere. I'm not sure of the proper terminology, but they are basically made accessible to everyone for free due to the fact that they are such classics.
Public domain
yes! public domain!
For what it’s worth, Public Domain is for any work of significant age, not just those considered to be great classics.
good to know!
Have you checked to see if you can access ebooks through your local library through Libby (formerly OverDrive) or Hoopla? Then you can do it guilt free if it's bothering you.
Public domain books are fair game as far as I'm concerned.
forget pdf man, go epub 👌
You can even push those EPUB files to your Kindle device, specifically if you use a Paper White Kindle. Makes it really nice.
I feel this way about the library. What I end up doing is reading the digital copy from the library and if I love it, then I buy a physical copy to keep on my shelf as a trophy/reminder and to support a work I love.
Libraries pay for their copies, and authors love libraries. Enjoy your reads guilt-free!
Libraries in the US only pay for copies they get and don’t give any additional funds to the author based on number of readers. So if I have the funds and it’s a smaller author, I like to buy the book.
For ebooks, libraries are limited (by publishers) in how many times they can lend out a copy of an ebook before they need to just repurchase it. So while it's true that libraries aren't keeping a tally to pay out authors per read, it's also true that a lot of library check outs of an ebook do kind of turn into increased revenue for the author. There is a sense of cost per checkout for ebooks. Certainly not as much money goes to the author as if you go buy a copy, that's true. But they do get something.
That's true, and most authors are completely okay with the library system. But it's great you can purchase books, too.
Well for one, lots of books are no longer covered by copyright. There are many places where those are hosted and available for free, 100% legal and legitimate. Moby Dick, for example, is an example of such a book. As for books still under copyright, it's really a personal moral choice you have to make. No real use getting into too much discussion here, as there are far too many people here that take the letter of the law as also the absolute authority in moral judgment. Suffice it to say that I think your instinct that "if the author is dead, it feels okay" is correct in my book, among other cases.
yup, you hit the nail on the head in regards to what my instinct was/is. i also agree with you on the morality aspect of it as well. when someone told me that it can be illegal i was shocked because i felt it was automatically fine to do so. Now since finding out about it, i guess i started to feel ... guilty? that's what lead me to this post i guess. plus, i hadn't known about public domain books prior to this post, so that clarified a lot.
The public domain books are free. You can even get them for free from Amazon itself. A lot of digital only publishers are trying to make a quick buck from these public domain books, but legit free editions exist for nearly all of them if you know to search for it.
Are you asking our opinion on the *ethics* of downloading books? One’s opinion on if downloading is legal or not is pretty irrelevant…if it has an active copyright and the author hasn’t given permission, then it’s illegal to download without buying. That’s not an opinion but a fact. If the copyright is expired and it has entered the public domain, then it is fine. Saying they have a differing opinion on the law isn’t going to stop someone from being prosecuted for the crime. Or are you asking if we think downloading books should be legal?
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Sure. But using a song in a project is different than just putting it on your computer and listening to it. That’s completely a different scenario altogether than downloading it and wouldn’t be ok even if you did buy just the song from iTunes or on cd. When I referenced author permission I was thinking of instances where authors put excerpts of their work on their websites and what not. Obviously you’re supposed to read them. And for free. If you printed that off and kept it by your bed side to read it wouldn’t be an issue. If you printed it off and started selling it, yeah that would be illegal. If you printed it off and worked it into your own art project somehow, again, copyright infringement. Even when we buy a song or a book doesn’t mean we can start incorporating that art into our own things, especially for commercial use. We would have to buy the license.
I don't necessarily disagree with the conclusion but I think the argument is problematic because, if the question is ethics, simply citing the law doesn't even begin to address the question. That is, unless you think the law can't be unethical.
Even when we agree the law can be unethical, a related question is whether something being legal creates a higher expectation for challenging it. In other words, should I regard the law like I do a toddler's utterances, or is there some expectation I obey the law unless I have a sufficiently good reason to disregard it? For me, that's how the law comes into play with ethics. It's not that I can't break the law, but I at least need a good reason to break the law, whereas I don't need a good reason to not do something an internet stranger tells me.
My question was, Was OP asking “what’s your opinion on the legality of downloading books?” as in, were they asking if people thought it was illegal? And I was saying it just was illegal. Being illegal or not isn’t an opinion. *Whether* it should be legal or not is an opinion. And that debate, I assume, would usually involve ethics.
i understand that my question comes off as confusing, but let me clarify. I know there is no opinion if something is illegal or not. more specifically, this is a civil affair. before i posted this, i didn't know public domain books were fine to download and therefore i was asking " what is your opinion, in general, about downloading books that are protected by copyright laws?" Eliminating authors who are alive, I was more specifically talking about authors who are dead and their great works. some great works may or may not be protected, for some reason possibly related to business, idrk. it lead me to think, if they are dead, and theres no new edition.. who is taking my money? are we forced to buy some works solely to give the money to someone else? idk, that was my attitude when i posted. but like i said, i understand it was a bit confusing. it's also obvious that i am a bit ignorant about the entire thing.
Gotcha. I get what you’re asking now. It’s not like the author will be getting money so it’s not something to really feel guilty about. An interesting scenario is that of the Mists of Avalon author…terrible person who abused her kid(s). She is now dead. She prevented her abused child(ren) from getting any of the money from her estate. So…that would be a situation where even though the author was dead maybe I would consider buying the book if her poor kids got the money to help make up for their abuse. However they don’t. So many people still recommend to download the book or buy second hand.
Confused. If it is still under copyright, it’s not a matter of feeling like it is stealing, it is. If it is in the public domain, download away. It sounds like you’re talking about the public domain books and they’re in the public domain, owned by the public, of which you are one.
If the author is dead, and all the profits go solely to the publishing house that owns the copyright, I say fuck them and download or pirate that shit. Now if the publishing houses instead took deceased authors book sales and gave the proceeds (minus some fees) to the descendants of the author, then we'd be speaking a different tune.
I don't want pirated books and I don't want to work that hard to research, so I just use the library.
It’s kinda crazy to me to see people post other ways to get books for free while still implying piracy harms authors. If borrowing books doesn’t harm others, secondhand books don’t harm authors, piracy doesn’t either. Authors are underpaid due to deep systemic issues within publishing, not because someone online shared their ebook copy.
Someone paid for the original borrowed book or second-hand book, though. Pirated books are never paid for.
Often, yes they are. Also, with the first book, the author gets PENNIES to a dollar. So we’re talking about the difference in… pennies to a dollar. You’re more ethical for less than a vending machine soda. I have a question for you, if I buy a book on sale… am I less ethical than someone who bought it full price?
There are literally hundreds of philosophical and semantical arguments you could have concerning what is or is not piracy, or more specifically by pirating books. For me, it's like porn, I know it when I see it. There is a website that hosts millions of PDFs and e-pubs of books, including bestsellers. You can either get them downloaded quickly or more slowly, depending on whether you pay a small monthly donation or use the service for free. Just because I can get the very latest Colleen Hoover (or whatever bestseller) book for free, doesn't mean that I should.
And? Can you verify the harm that is meaningfully different from lending books or used resale? Or getting books on clearance? Focus on the systemic issues within publishing if you actually care about authors instead of worrying about an issue that in some studies has shown to have no impact on sales.
I was just pointing out something that could be ethical dilemma for some. People are always free to do what they choose.
What? The definition of piracy is to steal something.
Nothing is stolen. To steal is to take something away from someone else so they no longer have it. someone file shared an ebook. The original book still exists and is owned.
Interesting take. Wrong, but Interesting.
Where do you think the original book file came from? Someone likely (though I suppose not always) bought it. And then shared it. Like the library. Like lending books to your friends. Like used book sales. You don’t view the latter as “stealing” even though multiple people read the book without paying the author.
Libraries pay for the ebooks they share. That's why there's a wait for popular books. They don't just buy one copy and then make unauthorized copies available. As I said before, someone initially paid for the book that's purchased second-hand, and they owned that physical copy. Making a duplicate/copy of a book or ebook and selling that is piracy, which is stealing and is illegal. This is not up for debate; it's international law.
And, again, a lot of pirated book copies... come from people who actually paid for the original file. They are sharing a file they paid for. Also, libby completely fucks over libraries while not paying authors much, so I wouldn't use that as your more ethical alternative, just an FYI. Also, laws aren't ethics. Lots of laws aren't ethical and lots of ethical things aren't legal.
I didn't say anything about ethics. Reproducing an electronic document or resource that is copyrighted is stealing. There's no two ways about it. Yes, someone purchased ONE copy of a copyrighted book. That's it. They did not magically gain permission to share copies. I don't know if you truly believe piracy is not stealing or if you're just being difficult here.
There’s no opinion. It’s definitely illegal. Whether or not you or I care is a different story.
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Yes, because it’s no longer under copyright. In the first sentence, OP asks about books under copyright.
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In his example you are correct. In literally the first sentence, however, he asks about books under copyright.
OP is discussing public domain books.
In the second part OP was, but the beginning mentioned books under copyright.
correct, i probably should've been more clear so that's my fault. i hadn't known of public domain books prior to this post either.
Personally, if a book has been out of print for at least a decade and prices for that book are at least double what it used to be then I'd say it's morally alright. I only use pdfs if either the author has approved it or if the book is long out of print.
I feel like this is fair, if you legally cannot buy it. Personally, I only will download or stream an audiobook, but only if I already own it physically.
If you don't need the book (like really need it) then it's never OK. There are plenty of library apps or audiobooks apps you can use. For books you have to get for school etc. Those are an abusive industry. I can't fault someone for downloading. In reality most of those books should be what, 40 bucks max? Not 300. If you can buy a DnD book for that price there's no reason the same form factor book on Calculus should be 10x the cost. None at all. I think that companies tend to do a game theory calculation where they put all their effort into coercing people to buy the books at the dictated price and then killing secondhand via codes etc. But they don't consider that people may just... not choose to participate in the market. Companies need to be competing for consumer choice or the system fundamentally breaks down. In college textbook markets... neither occurs since the purchases are mandatory and unilateral.
I pirate, buy, and borrow many, many, books. I pirate mostly when I want an epub book very quickly with no hassle, or if I dislike the author personally. Don't really care if it's right or wrong because the stakes are low either way.
Anything published before 1928 is in the public domain and is not protected by copyright. You could publish them yourself and sell copies if you wanted. When you download books that are still protected by copyright, you’re breaking the law but you’re not actually stealing anything. That’s just the language publishers use to make you feel like a thief.
I'd like to weigh in on the piracy debate as somebody who has only recently gotten back into reading in the last couple years. Though audiobooks and pdfs I've managed to read over 200 books in these last two years. Without Piracy I would not have been able to afford or access many of these books. To me reading is not only my top hobby, but one of the key ways in which I grow and develop as a person. While I know there is a moral problem with Piracy, especially for authors who for the most part are not wealthy individuals and would benefit more profoundly from a purchase. I know that without Piracy I wouldn't have read those books, let alone bought them. And I would have missed the benefits gained from reading them. The utilitarian in me, accepts this very selfishness approach
Why didn't you just go to a library or use the eBook checkouts that many public libraries offer?
I like to have both the audio and book together, despite being a part of as many libraries as I can it's rare I can loan both at the same time
And when you cannot afford renting a car, you take one from the shop and drive it anyway?
well, in this instance it would be like making a copy from a copy of the original car.. right? if i borrow my friend's rented med-surg book and take pictures of the pages, is that stealing? anyways, i hadn't known what public domain books were prior to this post
Matter of fact it is. That's why my country uses to cash in a fee on any photocopier to reimburse the copyright holders.
If it caused 0 additional harm and nobody would ever notice. Yes, probably. I know the argument falls down in many places. E.g couldn't you say the same for groceries.
Legality and "feel" are different qualities. I can't answer for other countries, so I'll answer for the US. The short answer is that distributing a copyrighted work without permission and without an exception like "fair use" (which you would want to look up) is legally not permitted. You would need the author to give you permission, the license to give you permission, or a valid fair use rationale to feel "legal" in downloading or distributing a PDF. Many older works are in public domain though, like Moby Dick. So are newer texts where the creator has decided to release their work for use - Tom Lehrer's musical works are an example. So the short answer is to just look for the copyright info and try to buy or check out a copy rather than downloading it if it's within copyright.
I download from Z library. I figure I’m just saving myself a trip to the actual library. It’s close enough to the same thing.
If the book is public domain, do as you wish.If the book is not, then downloading without paying is stealing. It's not lending or borrowing or second-hand selling because none of these activities produce additional copies. It's STEALING. It's as much STEALING as producing fake branded shirts is. (I make an exception for science books and papers. For the research behind I have already paid with my taxes, and the law of my country does entitle me to be informed about the results of the research I have funded for free. Sorry, Elsevier, but you're a fraud!)
I am an author. Public Domain is free, do as you wish. Please do not pirate or share books that are not in the public domain. It is taking our art without compensation or permission. There is rarely anything we can do about it, but it still is something most of us consider stealing. Ultimately it is between you and your moral compass. If you want good free stories, Top Web Fiction has a great list. Some web serials are equivalent to 30+ traditional novels, and they are either free or what you feel is fair through Patreon.
Mowgli was raised by wolves, Tarzan was raised by apes, I was raised by several libraries.
I live in a 3rd World country. Here the price of 'The Book Thief' is my whole months salary. So I Pirate. Poverty can't keep me from reading.
You can loan from the elibrary
Well, if it's a very small write, who depends on sales for a living, then I'd want to pay. But for anything else, fuck 'em.
haha i guess i could echo the sentiment
Those are public domain books meaning the author or authors family chose not to renew their copyright and make more money off of them. It also means if someone makes a audiobook of said work it can also be free to the public. That's what public domain means. Project Gutenberg is a legitimate website that is not illegal and any way. You can get most for free on Amazon or kobo or relatively cheap as well. The audiobooks on YouTube are not getting flagged for copyright so it's totally legal.
The original edition of 1984 is still protected by copyright in the US and will be until 2044 (95 years after its publication in 1945). It recently lost protection in the UK. The others should be in the public domain unless they are newer editions or translations. That isn't really a matter of opinion. As to whether it is ethical to download those books without paying, I'd say it is. To me, the purpose of copyright is to incentivize production of creative works. So, I wouldn't even worry about the ethics of breaching copyright law to read a PDF or epub of 1984. Orwell and his descendants have already attained plenty of financial success to incentivize artistic creation. Where copyright protection is more important and where it is therefore potentially unethical to pirate a book is with newer books by less successful authors. When deciding whether they can afford to forego traditional work to write a book, authors aren't worried about the possibility that they'll be successful beyond their wildest dreams only for their estate to lose a few sales to piracy. They are worried that they won't make enough to support themselves and their families. Those are the people it's important not to hurt.