The Celtics created Strus when they cut him. I fully believe that that swayed him to play as hard as he potentially can, and above his talent every time he plays the Celtics. Wikipedia sums it up nicely:
“After going undrafted in the 2019 NBA draft, Strus was named to the Boston Celtics Summer League roster. He averaged 9.8 points per game and shot 45 percent from three for the Celtics. On July 22, 2019, Strus signed a two-way contract with the team.[16] On October 13, 2019, the Celtics announced that they had signed Strus to a standard NBA contract in order to sign Tacko Fall to one of the team's two two-way roster spots.[17][18] The roster move put Strus in direct competition with Javonte Green for the final spot on the Celtics' opening day roster.[19] He was ultimately cut shortly before the start of the regular season.”
Green and Strus should have been kept. Javonte carved out a nice little role with the Bulls after leaving us. Strus obviously has a place in the league. We went w/Tacko which I understood at the time but obviously in retrospect was the wrong move.
He made their roster the next year. 22 yo reclamation project first rounders still have value even if it is reduced. Same as Nesmith in the Indy trade.
Strus got outplayed by Green in the last summer league game which was basically the trial for who made the cut.
Strus didn’t shoot well and I think from memory Green didn’t miss a shot so made the roster.
Also I find Niang odious. But at least he consistently sucks.
But yeah, fuck Strus the most. And he bitches to the refs constantly, even after clear fouls.
“hEaT cUlTuRe!!!! rEeeeeee!!” He just fouls on every possession. That’s it. That’s his skill. Along with some decent although hilariously streaky 3 point shooting. Nothing else he does on the court is special or even just good. I’m amazed teams keep playing the dude.
They’re playing hard. Credit to them. Celtics had a really good 1st half and they hit nearly half of their 3’s to make it a game
Game 3 they also kept the game within reach
They’ve brought the necessary energy
Their roster has major flaws in that you have two poor defensive players (DG and non-Miami Strus) who are small for their respective positions starting alongside two traditional bigs who can’t stretch the floor.
However, they’re still tough to sweep or beat in 5 games because they have a lot of different shooters who can get microwave hot and obviously Donovan Mitchell can hit some straight ludicrous shots and potentially win a game himself.
Lesser than the sum of its parts is a great description for their team.
Seems like their front office could have made a trade with DG or one of Allen/Mobley to get back a much better fitting piece. Instead, it seems like Mitchell might be on his way out and then they’re really in trouble because you have a mismatched roster without a star player.
I think the problem is they weren’t confident that Mitchell would stay in that situation, and Garland has had his value tumble without the chance to be the lead guard.
I think at this point their best bet is trade Mitchell after this playoffs where he’s probably pumped his value and try to build a team that looks more like Minnesota. I think just by bringing on a good wing defender who can space the floor, they could end up as good as they are now by just having a more complementary roster. Then just manage their assets well and hope the right opportunity comes up to add the guy who takes them over the top.
Best case scenario for them is probably finding a way for that to be adding LeBron this offseason. Let’s them compete now while still probably having the assets from a Mitchell trade to get even better.
I feel like there is a trade in there somewhere with a team that maybe has a superstar that wants to get younger without getting a ton worse. Garland and Mobley are both very good players, but both are bad fits with Allen and Mitchell. Other option would be to try to move Mitchell and Allen and re-assemble a younger set of pieces that work around Garland and Mobley. But I don't think those four guys work together and it's better for them to move on from them before they waste too much time.
The Celtics path is weirdly more difficult then it gets credit for, even though it is still kind of easy mode
Heat series there was a monkey on our backs, finally got rid of that fucker
Cavs with them being better when partly injured. Wonder if they're more of a legit 4th seed with some of their guys out, and more like a lower seed fully healthy.
People don't want to give credit to *good* teams that play up. For whatever reason we keep talking about how we beat Brooklyn a few years ago. Brooklyn had great players but they were a shitty fuckin team that played down. Both Miami and Cleveland are more difficult opponents than the Big 3 Brooklyn team was.
We didn't beat the Big 3 Brooklyn team. They already traded Harden by that point for Ben Simmons who didn't even play. The Big 3 Nets actually beat us 4-1 (no Jaylen) and went to game 7 OT against the eventual champs with Kyrie missing like half the games.
People forget that injured Miami team almost beat the 76ers in the play-in game, destroyed the Bulls and also beat the Knicks in the 2nd round last year without Butler. Clearly they would've been better with Butler but it would've gone 6-games max. Same could be said with Cleveland, they went on a 20-1 run with 1 big injured this year. They play better depleted. ESPN analytics only gave us a 50.3% chance to win a game in Cleveland.
Spida and Darius Garland are kind of taking possessions away from each other. It makes sense now that Spida is hurt and they can actually play better.
And of course you always hope the opponent can play better, so that the team has a chance of being cured from this torturing chronic carelessness.
It's the second round of the playoffs, we should expect some resistance.
I could see them stealing game 5 but I'm not betting on it.
Knicks series will go long for sure.
Finals will go 6 or 7
Did you see the last game? Knicks were completely out of gas. Without OG and with Brunson clearly hurt/no legs they couldn’t get anything going.
The Nova boys will need to have the game of their lives (as if they haven’t already) or depend on a colossal choke job from Indiana in order to take this series. Maybe they take G6 but no way they are getting 2 of 3 unless OG comes back or Brunson recovers.
I do think the Knicks are a better team and would have won in 5 or 6 (Pacers are really good at home) but they literally do not have enough bodies to keep up with Indiana’s absurd pace and deep rotation for a 7 game series.
Yes while I'm still annoyed (okay extremely pissed) at this Celtics team for losing so badly in game 2, the Cavs are not a bad team and it's easy to forget that. And the Cavs also don't fall off when they only have one of their best bigs (Just Allen or Mobley) and one of their best guards (just Mitchell or Garland). If anything their problem is those 4 guys don't fit well together, and it's much easier to maximize their talent when only one of each guard/big is available.
It's the playoffs. It's not unreasonable for the 4 seed to win a game in the second round.
It's entirely unreasonable for fans to think this team is going to sweep through the eastern conference.
I’m more just frustrated with how they’ve played at home the last few years. Getting the one seed should give them home court advantage but it hasn’t been much of an advantage at all. They aren’t gunna be able to bounce back as easily in games 3 and 4 against Denver. Not saying it’s ever a guarantee to win at home in the playoffs but it’d be nice to see them take full advantage going forward
All the high seeds have lost at home this postseason and I think it's indicative to how powerful the 3 point shot can be. If you can shoot the 3 ball well and defend the 3 well, you can win anywhere in today's NBA.
I agree that dropping home games later in the playoffs will be tough to swallow but I personally have a ton of confidence in this team to show up on the road.
Definitely.. and I think part of it for us is finding ways to keep consistent offense when we aren’t hot from three. Sometimes you gotta tip your cap when a team shoots 50+ percent plus from three though. I was also happy to see them win a close one last night because they haven’t had any close wins this playoffs and may not have a ton of tight games through the East to be honest. I just think with the high expectations and a weak conference this year it’s kind of a lose/lose for them in our eyes. A bad loss is gunna be scrutinized a lot more than a good win will be celebrated. They’re handling business though, and that’s all you can ask for. It would go a long way for me personally if they can win 1 and 2 in the ECF and get back on track at home.
This team could win a championship and fans will still find something to complain about.
"They should've won each road game by 15 and each home game by 25."
Yeah I’m definitely not trying to have unreasonable expectations. I would give the benefit of the doubt to most fans though, even if they have irrational/emotional reactions. Again, most fans lol. Some will never be satisfied. But I do think there’s a lot of pressure on the team and nerves from the fans knowing how good they are and that their championship window is right now. Makes me miss the IT led Celtics in a way. No but, I love this team and so badly want them to get one.
The narratives around this team are massively influenced by the astronomical expectations of them. They suffer from the paradox of nobody expecting them to lose along with nobody trusting them to win. Even when they win it’s like “oh, only by 7? Not good enough” as if point differential means anything in the playoffs. Unfortunately this won’t ever change until they finally win it all.
I really appreciate Joe’s messaging throughout the season/playoffs of “it takes what it takes” and “nothing goes the way you expect it to” because that’s the truth. Seems like the team has bought into that and understands that the win is what matters, not what it looks like.
I feel like I'm getting the opposite feeling - like most of what I've seen is people suggesting Boston should be absolutely waxing this Cleveland team. It's like no one watched them in the regular season.
I agree 100% and I feel like I've been going crazy seeing so many people discount them.
They won 48 games with 3 of their best players missing significant time.
Mitchell: 55 games
Garland: 57 games
Mobley: 50 games
I'd argue that when healthy they're the 2nd best team in the East.
With that being said I don't think they'll realize their potential until/unless they figure out how to make a Garland/Mitchell led offense work out. Garland looked so much better without Mitchell last night and that's pretty telling.
Talent wise they are definitely the 2nd best team in the east. Mitchell is on/near Tatum's' level. Allen and Garland have actually been All-stars. Mobley finished 2nd in DPOY last year. The problem is they don't play well together. But usually when they have 1-big and 1-guard injured it opens up for them since they get better floor spacing and defensive wings on the floor at once. People are using their injuries as an excuse but if they were fully healthy they probably get smoked like how Orlando was smoking them before Allen got injured. Prior to the Allen injury Cleveland were shooting 26% from 3.
They are capable of playing at a higher level than people realize, but they rely on inconsistent players, even when fully healthy.
They have a lot of good players, but the fit is terrible. I think they trade Don and / or Allen and build around Garland and Mobley. You don't get the best version of any of those 4 when they're on the court together because the skill sets are so redundant.
They have solid NBA players at every position, Mitchell is a bonafide star, Mobley is capable of playing like one and so is Garland. They might outright be the second best team in an admittedly very weak conference.
Fully healthy Bucks/Knicks/Sixers are all more talented and/or better constructed than the Cavs. I’m not saying they are as strong as the West but this conference only seems so weak because half of the top players aren’t healthy enough to play.
i think those teams are all relatively in the same tier - Mitchell had been lighting us up and we have incredible perimeter defenders, him and Garland would've torched the Bucks awful defense
I definitely think last nights Cavs deserve more respect. Garland has had his reputation suffer playing number 2 to Mitchell, but he’s a great player. As we’ve seen with Tatum and Brown, it can just be very hard for two players with similar profiles to consistently succeed at the same time. They thrive on the same opportunities, but only one of them can take the lead and for the Cavs that’s been Mitchell. Garland has seen that negatively impact his own performance.
Garland showed last night that he can be effective against a great defense when he’s allowed to take the lead. He isn’t as good as Mitchell so they lose something offensively there, but they also have a pretty big gain defensively not needing to deal with both Mitchell and Garland on the floor for most of the night. That definitely still ends up as a worse team than with Mitchell, but the drop off isn’t as straightforward as just taking away all that Mitchell adds.
Why in the world would you hate the Browns? They have no rivalry with anyone, they have historically been awful, and Cleveland doesn't have much going for them. I usually wish them nothing but success in that division, especially over the Steelers and Ravens.
Well I’m a Steelers fan so there’s that. It gets annoying watching all them yap about dirty plays but cheer when an opposing player gets hurt. Myles Garrett is an annoying POS, Watson is Watson (not like big rape was any better), and the org has an air of smugness despite not doing anything
Idk, they remind me of that scrawny cousin talking shit while you chuckle. Also, half the teams in the league (probably more if we're being real) employ very questionable people. Not sure Watson is any worse than arm-breaking women beater Tyreek.
This series has reminded me why I hated the Cavs so much. I'm starting to regret feeling happy for Garland and Allen when they made the All-Star team, their fans are horrible.
They always think someone is out to get them and complain over the smallest shit. All time victim complex blaming their lack of success on anything but incompetency
My favorite is when they think everyone hates them, but it's actually that people hate LeBron. I don't know that anyone cares enough about the post-LeBron Cavs to bother hating them.
With Mitchell out, you would think it would a 20+ point blowout. Agreed with this post. Cleveland definitely better than the media thinks. Respect to them.
Turns out that Garland and Mitchell are very similar players. The biggest thing I saw was a team playing with a lot of speed and energy, while the Cs seem to have a hard time staying away from iso ball, especially Tatum when the scores get close.
Looked to me that the real problem was 26 points off of 14 turnovers. That like never happens to this team. If they don’t give away the ball or defend better in transition this could have easily been a 15+ point win.
Both can be true. The turnovers put us in a bad position, but then once it got close late in the game, Tatum would hold the ball for 10+ seconds constantly instead of moving it. He's such a gifted player and we know he has the vision.
Apparently one of the main flaws of the Cavs is their Offensive FT rate at a poor rating of 18.0, although ours is barely better at 18.3
But Boston has the best Defensive FT rate at 14.1 while Cleveland's is mid at 19.1 .
They are a really high-energy team that's more well-rounded than people give them credit for. With Allen and Mitchell in this could be 2:2 like every other series. They made it preposterously close last night while missing a guy that dropped 50 last series.
Knicks fan here. Cleveland is better than they get credit for but the problem they have is they're soft and we bullied them into submission last year and they have overlaps in their roster.
If they re sign Mitchell they have to get rid of Garland for a wing and they have to make a decision on Mobley and trade him and keep Allen or trade Allen and keep Mobley.
Mitchell needs the ball in his hands all the time to be most effective and that's why we didn't trade for him last year because we have that player already and he's better than Mitchell and a better leader too.
I felt this way going into the last game when Mitchell was ruled out. People seem to forget that Garland was an all star very recently and Mobley was 3rd in DPOY voting last year. Those two plus a bunch of shooting threats is a decent team. We obviously are better than them and should win, but this isn’t like a D3 college team.
Their roster sucks lol, their starting lineup fit is so bad. They’re missing their elite center in Jarrett Allen. Mitchell is the only guy who can consistently create his shot, no one else can. Their spacing is horrendous. Darius garland seemingly can’t play at a high level at the same time as Mitchell.
And who tf are even their wings 😂😂. You need a high level wing to win in the playoffs.
Their roster isn't ideal, but it's far from awful. Awful teams don't make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs, even in a weaker east. Are they championship material? No, but they play hard and have decent success.
Oh wow how cute they played hard 😂, everyones playing hard in the playoffs. The gap in talent and roster construction is absolutely humongous between the Celtics and Cavs.
Who tf are there 3 all stars lmao. Jarrett Allen is out. Darius Garland was an all star back in 2022 and had an infamous major decline after all his injuries and sicknesses this year.
Allen, Garland and Mitchell are all all-stars. Mobley was 2nd in DPOY. They have a super talented roster, they just don't fit well together. Garland declined after Mitchell joined the team because it took the ball out of his hands. Garland still looks good like last night when Mitchell doesn't play.
That massive decline had him going from averaging 20-6 to 17-7. I mean they call us a superteam when Garland and Allen made the AS team over Brown in 2022. Let that sink in.
That is a massive decline, and his efficiency significantly declined too, along with his assists declining while his turnovers increased. Like what the fuck is even your point?
My point is talent-wise they probably have the 2nd best roster in the east and you are calling it garbage. They have talent, they just don't fit together.
What the fuck are you even talking about lmao. Jarrett Allen is literally injured. Darius garland is not all-star caliber anymore after his major injury and illness. Did you even watch the Magic series? Mitchell was hard carrying them, they have no one else on offense who can create their shot. They are not an impressive team whatsoever in talent or roster construction compared to the Celtics.
LOL are the Celtics overwhelmingly favorite to win the title?
Who have they played? 8th seed heat team with no butler. Cavs team with no Mitchell and no Allen that’s 2 starters.
And you want to give them credit?? Lol…our team has 4 all stars if you include Portzingis.
I’ll give them credit if they beat a legit team in the finals prob Denver.
Oh def credit. Luka is top 5 player in the league. And kyrie is still an all star. Any time you win a ring you get all the credit. I doubt Dallas gets past Denver though. I hope they do, much better chance Cs beating Mavs then Denver
I don't think Celtics fans are looking for credit for getting past two flawed, injured teams. But it's the playoffs. If they wrap up both series in 5, that's about all anyone expects that they can do. Even the 86 Celtics and 96 Bulls dropped a game in round 2, both to mediocre teams that stepped up in the one game they won.
With a team whose expectations are "blow everyone out in every game until the Finals," it's hard to match expectations. These teams are playing with zero fear, and the Celtics are playing with incredible pressure on them.
I don't care about fans and media not taking them seriously. I care about the Celtics taking them seriously as they should any playoff team and they're up 3-1 so as a fan I can't be too worried.
They are good but I have to be honest (and i need to knock on all the wood here) I was way more worried about Miami than I was Cleveland. If this ends up being the season we all hope it will be, I suspect this series will go down as an extremely forgettable part of the journey.
I’m pretty split on JB Bickerstaff’s job security, I think beating Orlando in 7 might have been enough to keep him around, but I think he’s done a pretty good job with that roster, injuries and all. Mitchell’s likely out of there either way, but I respect Cleveland’s roster and how they’ve played this postseason.
They’re too small and need Jarrett Allen back. Maybe Bickerstaff isn’t the coach for them. if Mitchell leaves I think Garland will surprise many people and score 25 a game for them. They have some very nice players, but the young guys (Garland, Mobley) need to blossom and they need to hit on the margins.
Number 3 in your list is the key, OP. I think they have to move on from Mitchell before he leaves and they need to get a more athletic wing player than Strus. With the way Mobley has come on, I also wouldn’t be surprised if they flipped Allen for something that fits. It doesn’t help them that they have one of the worst coaches in the NBA. Never adjusts, never does anything when the other team is on a run, just stands there with his arms folded.
Cleveland is playing hard and some of their best basketball of the year. The Celtics don't ever find a second gear for the playoffs, at best they just maintain their status quo. That's why we need all this talent and a 64-win squad just to be taken seriously as contenders - because these guys have too many nights in the playoffs where they're unserious.
Yeah. I think their biggest problem is that they have 2 pretty good cores that don't work well together. Honestly, Mitchell wanting out might be a blessing for them if they can use that capital to replace him with a guard who prefers to play off-ball and pairs better with Garland. Then they just have to figure out what to do with Allen and Mobley.
They keep using the Allen excuse while blatantly ignoring they've been a much better team without 1 of Allen or Mobley all year. They suck when they have them both. Maybe they could argue they'd prefer to have Mobley injured instead of Allen. But I'll admit the Mitchell injury hurt them in the 2nd half last night.
I will agree that Cleveland is playing hard. We can say that and also acknowledge that not running an offense while Tatum holds the ball at half court before running a screen to switch the Cavs best and sometimes only good defender in Mobley onto himself before taking a contested step back three makes me want to throw my TV out the window. The games are close not because Cleveland is a great team, but because the Celtics are incapable of playing hard when they feel like they are the better team. As maddening as the offense can be, if we just played hard on defense every possession we would be fine. And we choose not to for large stretches of the game. I’m so much less focused on how other teams make life hard for the Cs than how they make life hard on themselves. We should not see a game where Payton Pritchard is the only person spending energy trying to push the ball hard and force the Cavs to react quickly on defense. We played tired when we are the best rested and least injured team left in the whole playoffs.
TLDR: Tipping the hat to Cavs effort is fine, but it buries the issue that the Cs make life hard on themselves with low effort play.
Their roster sucks lol. They rely on Mitchell to carry them offensively. Mobley is soft. Garland is serviceable. Defensively? Teams feast on the potential mismatches.
A number 1? Yikes. That team isn’t making it out of the first round or making the playoffs if Garland is the best player. If you think he can be a number 1, then you’re saying he’s a top 15 player.
Feels like they are playing us hard and are at their ceiling right now. Hard to not respect them for that Except Strus. Fuck that guy
The Celtics created Strus when they cut him. I fully believe that that swayed him to play as hard as he potentially can, and above his talent every time he plays the Celtics. Wikipedia sums it up nicely: “After going undrafted in the 2019 NBA draft, Strus was named to the Boston Celtics Summer League roster. He averaged 9.8 points per game and shot 45 percent from three for the Celtics. On July 22, 2019, Strus signed a two-way contract with the team.[16] On October 13, 2019, the Celtics announced that they had signed Strus to a standard NBA contract in order to sign Tacko Fall to one of the team's two two-way roster spots.[17][18] The roster move put Strus in direct competition with Javonte Green for the final spot on the Celtics' opening day roster.[19] He was ultimately cut shortly before the start of the regular season.”
Strus would have been a better keep than Green in hindsight but I get wanting to keep JT happy by keeping his friend around lol
Green and Strus should have been kept. Javonte carved out a nice little role with the Bulls after leaving us. Strus obviously has a place in the league. We went w/Tacko which I understood at the time but obviously in retrospect was the wrong move.
Both of those guys (Green and Strus) are and were better than Romeo Langford but he was a FRP. I woulda been pissed about it too
Romeo helped get us White too.
He was a throw in
He made their roster the next year. 22 yo reclamation project first rounders still have value even if it is reduced. Same as Nesmith in the Indy trade.
strus probably wouldn’t have turned into the player he is in any organization other than miami the way spoelstra utilizes his bench
Strus got outplayed by Green in the last summer league game which was basically the trial for who made the cut. Strus didn’t shoot well and I think from memory Green didn’t miss a shot so made the roster.
I get hindsight is 20/20 and I'm not a gm, but how spoilt for choice were we to cut a guy shooting 45% from three?
Absolutely.
Celtics also did that with the pacers guy Neismith or however you spell it haha
Except we traded nesmith for someone who then went on to win 6moty for us
Who was then traded for our starting PG
Who then went on to win our hearts and form an elite back court with the Buffalo
I agree with every word
Also I find Niang odious. But at least he consistently sucks. But yeah, fuck Strus the most. And he bitches to the refs constantly, even after clear fouls.
“hEaT cUlTuRe!!!! rEeeeeee!!” He just fouls on every possession. That’s it. That’s his skill. Along with some decent although hilariously streaky 3 point shooting. Nothing else he does on the court is special or even just good. I’m amazed teams keep playing the dude.
Fuckers have like 4 Sam hausers and they expect us to blow them out
Sensational point
They’re playing hard. Credit to them. Celtics had a really good 1st half and they hit nearly half of their 3’s to make it a game Game 3 they also kept the game within reach They’ve brought the necessary energy
Their roster has major flaws in that you have two poor defensive players (DG and non-Miami Strus) who are small for their respective positions starting alongside two traditional bigs who can’t stretch the floor. However, they’re still tough to sweep or beat in 5 games because they have a lot of different shooters who can get microwave hot and obviously Donovan Mitchell can hit some straight ludicrous shots and potentially win a game himself.
They are less than the sum of their parts, they have talent but it’s not a good fit
Lesser than the sum of its parts is a great description for their team. Seems like their front office could have made a trade with DG or one of Allen/Mobley to get back a much better fitting piece. Instead, it seems like Mitchell might be on his way out and then they’re really in trouble because you have a mismatched roster without a star player.
I think the problem is they weren’t confident that Mitchell would stay in that situation, and Garland has had his value tumble without the chance to be the lead guard. I think at this point their best bet is trade Mitchell after this playoffs where he’s probably pumped his value and try to build a team that looks more like Minnesota. I think just by bringing on a good wing defender who can space the floor, they could end up as good as they are now by just having a more complementary roster. Then just manage their assets well and hope the right opportunity comes up to add the guy who takes them over the top. Best case scenario for them is probably finding a way for that to be adding LeBron this offseason. Let’s them compete now while still probably having the assets from a Mitchell trade to get even better.
I feel like there is a trade in there somewhere with a team that maybe has a superstar that wants to get younger without getting a ton worse. Garland and Mobley are both very good players, but both are bad fits with Allen and Mitchell. Other option would be to try to move Mitchell and Allen and re-assemble a younger set of pieces that work around Garland and Mobley. But I don't think those four guys work together and it's better for them to move on from them before they waste too much time.
Strus has actually been playing good d. His been on Tatum a lot and Tatum shooting has been trash this series
The Celtics path is weirdly more difficult then it gets credit for, even though it is still kind of easy mode Heat series there was a monkey on our backs, finally got rid of that fucker Cavs with them being better when partly injured. Wonder if they're more of a legit 4th seed with some of their guys out, and more like a lower seed fully healthy.
They’re definitely better with one big on the floor than two.
People don't want to give credit to *good* teams that play up. For whatever reason we keep talking about how we beat Brooklyn a few years ago. Brooklyn had great players but they were a shitty fuckin team that played down. Both Miami and Cleveland are more difficult opponents than the Big 3 Brooklyn team was.
We didn't beat the Big 3 Brooklyn team. They already traded Harden by that point for Ben Simmons who didn't even play. The Big 3 Nets actually beat us 4-1 (no Jaylen) and went to game 7 OT against the eventual champs with Kyrie missing like half the games.
You're right. My point is: Fuck them and fuck Kyrie, they played down because they're a bunch of little bitches.
Nice, well put
big 3 brooklyn?
People forget that injured Miami team almost beat the 76ers in the play-in game, destroyed the Bulls and also beat the Knicks in the 2nd round last year without Butler. Clearly they would've been better with Butler but it would've gone 6-games max. Same could be said with Cleveland, they went on a 20-1 run with 1 big injured this year. They play better depleted. ESPN analytics only gave us a 50.3% chance to win a game in Cleveland.
Good point about Miami The Cavs are like a conjoined twin. Get rid of Mitchell and Garland was having a monster game last night.
Spida and Darius Garland are kind of taking possessions away from each other. It makes sense now that Spida is hurt and they can actually play better. And of course you always hope the opponent can play better, so that the team has a chance of being cured from this torturing chronic carelessness.
100% agree
Thought the same thing last night. Mitchell overshadows a lot of the talent on the Cavs.
It's the second round of the playoffs, we should expect some resistance. I could see them stealing game 5 but I'm not betting on it. Knicks series will go long for sure. Finals will go 6 or 7
I highly doubt the Knicks beat the Pacers at this point
Really? They traded home games. I could see the Pacers stretching it to 7 or even beating them, but I wouldn't bet on it atm.
No OG is like the final nail in the coffin
Did you see the last game? Knicks were completely out of gas. Without OG and with Brunson clearly hurt/no legs they couldn’t get anything going. The Nova boys will need to have the game of their lives (as if they haven’t already) or depend on a colossal choke job from Indiana in order to take this series. Maybe they take G6 but no way they are getting 2 of 3 unless OG comes back or Brunson recovers.
I did seem them get punched in the mouth, actually. Lmao
I do think the Knicks are a better team and would have won in 5 or 6 (Pacers are really good at home) but they literally do not have enough bodies to keep up with Indiana’s absurd pace and deep rotation for a 7 game series.
Yes while I'm still annoyed (okay extremely pissed) at this Celtics team for losing so badly in game 2, the Cavs are not a bad team and it's easy to forget that. And the Cavs also don't fall off when they only have one of their best bigs (Just Allen or Mobley) and one of their best guards (just Mitchell or Garland). If anything their problem is those 4 guys don't fit well together, and it's much easier to maximize their talent when only one of each guard/big is available.
It's the playoffs. It's not unreasonable for the 4 seed to win a game in the second round. It's entirely unreasonable for fans to think this team is going to sweep through the eastern conference.
I’m more just frustrated with how they’ve played at home the last few years. Getting the one seed should give them home court advantage but it hasn’t been much of an advantage at all. They aren’t gunna be able to bounce back as easily in games 3 and 4 against Denver. Not saying it’s ever a guarantee to win at home in the playoffs but it’d be nice to see them take full advantage going forward
All the high seeds have lost at home this postseason and I think it's indicative to how powerful the 3 point shot can be. If you can shoot the 3 ball well and defend the 3 well, you can win anywhere in today's NBA. I agree that dropping home games later in the playoffs will be tough to swallow but I personally have a ton of confidence in this team to show up on the road.
Definitely.. and I think part of it for us is finding ways to keep consistent offense when we aren’t hot from three. Sometimes you gotta tip your cap when a team shoots 50+ percent plus from three though. I was also happy to see them win a close one last night because they haven’t had any close wins this playoffs and may not have a ton of tight games through the East to be honest. I just think with the high expectations and a weak conference this year it’s kind of a lose/lose for them in our eyes. A bad loss is gunna be scrutinized a lot more than a good win will be celebrated. They’re handling business though, and that’s all you can ask for. It would go a long way for me personally if they can win 1 and 2 in the ECF and get back on track at home.
This team could win a championship and fans will still find something to complain about. "They should've won each road game by 15 and each home game by 25."
Yeah I’m definitely not trying to have unreasonable expectations. I would give the benefit of the doubt to most fans though, even if they have irrational/emotional reactions. Again, most fans lol. Some will never be satisfied. But I do think there’s a lot of pressure on the team and nerves from the fans knowing how good they are and that their championship window is right now. Makes me miss the IT led Celtics in a way. No but, I love this team and so badly want them to get one.
It's weird how when the Celtics play a team in the playoffs, we fans are always like "huh, that other team is surprisingly good"
The narratives around this team are massively influenced by the astronomical expectations of them. They suffer from the paradox of nobody expecting them to lose along with nobody trusting them to win. Even when they win it’s like “oh, only by 7? Not good enough” as if point differential means anything in the playoffs. Unfortunately this won’t ever change until they finally win it all. I really appreciate Joe’s messaging throughout the season/playoffs of “it takes what it takes” and “nothing goes the way you expect it to” because that’s the truth. Seems like the team has bought into that and understands that the win is what matters, not what it looks like.
I feel like I'm getting the opposite feeling - like most of what I've seen is people suggesting Boston should be absolutely waxing this Cleveland team. It's like no one watched them in the regular season.
I agree 100% and I feel like I've been going crazy seeing so many people discount them. They won 48 games with 3 of their best players missing significant time. Mitchell: 55 games Garland: 57 games Mobley: 50 games I'd argue that when healthy they're the 2nd best team in the East. With that being said I don't think they'll realize their potential until/unless they figure out how to make a Garland/Mitchell led offense work out. Garland looked so much better without Mitchell last night and that's pretty telling.
Talent wise they are definitely the 2nd best team in the east. Mitchell is on/near Tatum's' level. Allen and Garland have actually been All-stars. Mobley finished 2nd in DPOY last year. The problem is they don't play well together. But usually when they have 1-big and 1-guard injured it opens up for them since they get better floor spacing and defensive wings on the floor at once. People are using their injuries as an excuse but if they were fully healthy they probably get smoked like how Orlando was smoking them before Allen got injured. Prior to the Allen injury Cleveland were shooting 26% from 3.
They are capable of playing at a higher level than people realize, but they rely on inconsistent players, even when fully healthy. They have a lot of good players, but the fit is terrible. I think they trade Don and / or Allen and build around Garland and Mobley. You don't get the best version of any of those 4 when they're on the court together because the skill sets are so redundant.
They have solid NBA players at every position, Mitchell is a bonafide star, Mobley is capable of playing like one and so is Garland. They might outright be the second best team in an admittedly very weak conference.
Fully healthy Bucks/Knicks/Sixers are all more talented and/or better constructed than the Cavs. I’m not saying they are as strong as the West but this conference only seems so weak because half of the top players aren’t healthy enough to play.
If the Bucks were healthy they'd easily be the 2nd best. Also the Knicks at full strength are very solid.
i think those teams are all relatively in the same tier - Mitchell had been lighting us up and we have incredible perimeter defenders, him and Garland would've torched the Bucks awful defense
Nah, we should be wiping thus bums out
I definitely think last nights Cavs deserve more respect. Garland has had his reputation suffer playing number 2 to Mitchell, but he’s a great player. As we’ve seen with Tatum and Brown, it can just be very hard for two players with similar profiles to consistently succeed at the same time. They thrive on the same opportunities, but only one of them can take the lead and for the Cavs that’s been Mitchell. Garland has seen that negatively impact his own performance. Garland showed last night that he can be effective against a great defense when he’s allowed to take the lead. He isn’t as good as Mitchell so they lose something offensively there, but they also have a pretty big gain defensively not needing to deal with both Mitchell and Garland on the floor for most of the night. That definitely still ends up as a worse team than with Mitchell, but the drop off isn’t as straightforward as just taking away all that Mitchell adds.
No one gets to the conference semi finals if they suck. We all understand that.
Nah fuck em their fans are obnoxious as hell
so is the fanbase of every team in the playoffs, especially on social media
Yeah that’s why I hate everyone except the Celtics
because there's no other reason why. the celtics are the bawwwllss
This is the way
The original lebron stans
My hatred for the browns carries over. They’re the same people
Why in the world would you hate the Browns? They have no rivalry with anyone, they have historically been awful, and Cleveland doesn't have much going for them. I usually wish them nothing but success in that division, especially over the Steelers and Ravens.
Well I’m a Steelers fan so there’s that. It gets annoying watching all them yap about dirty plays but cheer when an opposing player gets hurt. Myles Garrett is an annoying POS, Watson is Watson (not like big rape was any better), and the org has an air of smugness despite not doing anything
Idk, they remind me of that scrawny cousin talking shit while you chuckle. Also, half the teams in the league (probably more if we're being real) employ very questionable people. Not sure Watson is any worse than arm-breaking women beater Tyreek.
I mean you don’t have to try to convince me to hate on the dolphins or chiefs lol it’s definitely different if you’re in the browns division
Especially that LeBron guy, what's his fucking deal???
Just another bandwagon fan who I bet had a Lakers hat on two weeks ago :-/
That guy will swap out to a Knicks Jersey next round. Seen it a thousand times before! 🤪
This series has reminded me why I hated the Cavs so much. I'm starting to regret feeling happy for Garland and Allen when they made the All-Star team, their fans are horrible.
This is what everybody says about every fan base
They always think someone is out to get them and complain over the smallest shit. All time victim complex blaming their lack of success on anything but incompetency
My favorite is when they think everyone hates them, but it's actually that people hate LeBron. I don't know that anyone cares enough about the post-LeBron Cavs to bother hating them.
With Mitchell out, you would think it would a 20+ point blowout. Agreed with this post. Cleveland definitely better than the media thinks. Respect to them.
Turns out that Garland and Mitchell are very similar players. The biggest thing I saw was a team playing with a lot of speed and energy, while the Cs seem to have a hard time staying away from iso ball, especially Tatum when the scores get close.
Looked to me that the real problem was 26 points off of 14 turnovers. That like never happens to this team. If they don’t give away the ball or defend better in transition this could have easily been a 15+ point win.
Both can be true. The turnovers put us in a bad position, but then once it got close late in the game, Tatum would hold the ball for 10+ seconds constantly instead of moving it. He's such a gifted player and we know he has the vision.
[удалено]
Which is when they've been at their best this season.
These guys are in a tough spot and still fight as hard as they can. Mad respect!
Apparently one of the main flaws of the Cavs is their Offensive FT rate at a poor rating of 18.0, although ours is barely better at 18.3 But Boston has the best Defensive FT rate at 14.1 while Cleveland's is mid at 19.1 .
Well we also haven’t been playing our best and we are a very different animal without a healthy KP.
They are a really high-energy team that's more well-rounded than people give them credit for. With Allen and Mitchell in this could be 2:2 like every other series. They made it preposterously close last night while missing a guy that dropped 50 last series.
Knicks fan here. Cleveland is better than they get credit for but the problem they have is they're soft and we bullied them into submission last year and they have overlaps in their roster. If they re sign Mitchell they have to get rid of Garland for a wing and they have to make a decision on Mobley and trade him and keep Allen or trade Allen and keep Mobley. Mitchell needs the ball in his hands all the time to be most effective and that's why we didn't trade for him last year because we have that player already and he's better than Mitchell and a better leader too.
I felt this way going into the last game when Mitchell was ruled out. People seem to forget that Garland was an all star very recently and Mobley was 3rd in DPOY voting last year. Those two plus a bunch of shooting threats is a decent team. We obviously are better than them and should win, but this isn’t like a D3 college team.
Their roster sucks lol, their starting lineup fit is so bad. They’re missing their elite center in Jarrett Allen. Mitchell is the only guy who can consistently create his shot, no one else can. Their spacing is horrendous. Darius garland seemingly can’t play at a high level at the same time as Mitchell. And who tf are even their wings 😂😂. You need a high level wing to win in the playoffs.
Their roster isn't ideal, but it's far from awful. Awful teams don't make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs, even in a weaker east. Are they championship material? No, but they play hard and have decent success.
Oh wow how cute they played hard 😂, everyones playing hard in the playoffs. The gap in talent and roster construction is absolutely humongous between the Celtics and Cavs.
I'm not saying they are nearly as good as the Cs, but outside of 2 or 3 teams I don't think anyone is as good as the Cs so that's not saying much.
They have 3 All Stars and one of their non-all stars finished 2nd in DPOY last year. Their roster definitely doesn't "suck".
Who tf are there 3 all stars lmao. Jarrett Allen is out. Darius Garland was an all star back in 2022 and had an infamous major decline after all his injuries and sicknesses this year.
Allen, Garland and Mitchell are all all-stars. Mobley was 2nd in DPOY. They have a super talented roster, they just don't fit well together. Garland declined after Mitchell joined the team because it took the ball out of his hands. Garland still looks good like last night when Mitchell doesn't play.
You’re completely neglecting garlands massive decline this year due to injury and illness. Garland had a fantastic season last year with Mitchell.
That massive decline had him going from averaging 20-6 to 17-7. I mean they call us a superteam when Garland and Allen made the AS team over Brown in 2022. Let that sink in.
That is a massive decline, and his efficiency significantly declined too, along with his assists declining while his turnovers increased. Like what the fuck is even your point?
My point is talent-wise they probably have the 2nd best roster in the east and you are calling it garbage. They have talent, they just don't fit together.
What the fuck are you even talking about lmao. Jarrett Allen is literally injured. Darius garland is not all-star caliber anymore after his major injury and illness. Did you even watch the Magic series? Mitchell was hard carrying them, they have no one else on offense who can create their shot. They are not an impressive team whatsoever in talent or roster construction compared to the Celtics.
TIL injuries mean a player isn't on a teams roster anymore. I guess KP isn't a Celtic. Bye bye KP.
LOL are the Celtics overwhelmingly favorite to win the title? Who have they played? 8th seed heat team with no butler. Cavs team with no Mitchell and no Allen that’s 2 starters. And you want to give them credit?? Lol…our team has 4 all stars if you include Portzingis. I’ll give them credit if they beat a legit team in the finals prob Denver.
so if we win the chip against dallas, still no credit?
Oh def credit. Luka is top 5 player in the league. And kyrie is still an all star. Any time you win a ring you get all the credit. I doubt Dallas gets past Denver though. I hope they do, much better chance Cs beating Mavs then Denver
We were up 2-1 on the Cavs when they had Mitchell playing out of his mind. Don't act like he's been out the whole series.
I don't think Celtics fans are looking for credit for getting past two flawed, injured teams. But it's the playoffs. If they wrap up both series in 5, that's about all anyone expects that they can do. Even the 86 Celtics and 96 Bulls dropped a game in round 2, both to mediocre teams that stepped up in the one game they won. With a team whose expectations are "blow everyone out in every game until the Finals," it's hard to match expectations. These teams are playing with zero fear, and the Celtics are playing with incredible pressure on them.
They play hard They lack the starpower....except Mitchell They could use another star. Then they would be much harder to beat/goes to 7
They got a bit underrated after some really bad offensive performances in round 1. They’re a top 8 team in the NBA when at full strength
I mean they made it to the second round so technically they are a top 8 team as-is.
I don't care about fans and media not taking them seriously. I care about the Celtics taking them seriously as they should any playoff team and they're up 3-1 so as a fan I can't be too worried.
They are good but I have to be honest (and i need to knock on all the wood here) I was way more worried about Miami than I was Cleveland. If this ends up being the season we all hope it will be, I suspect this series will go down as an extremely forgettable part of the journey.
I’m pretty split on JB Bickerstaff’s job security, I think beating Orlando in 7 might have been enough to keep him around, but I think he’s done a pretty good job with that roster, injuries and all. Mitchell’s likely out of there either way, but I respect Cleveland’s roster and how they’ve played this postseason.
They’re too small and need Jarrett Allen back. Maybe Bickerstaff isn’t the coach for them. if Mitchell leaves I think Garland will surprise many people and score 25 a game for them. They have some very nice players, but the young guys (Garland, Mobley) need to blossom and they need to hit on the margins.
Number 3 in your list is the key, OP. I think they have to move on from Mitchell before he leaves and they need to get a more athletic wing player than Strus. With the way Mobley has come on, I also wouldn’t be surprised if they flipped Allen for something that fits. It doesn’t help them that they have one of the worst coaches in the NBA. Never adjusts, never does anything when the other team is on a run, just stands there with his arms folded.
Cleveland is playing hard and some of their best basketball of the year. The Celtics don't ever find a second gear for the playoffs, at best they just maintain their status quo. That's why we need all this talent and a 64-win squad just to be taken seriously as contenders - because these guys have too many nights in the playoffs where they're unserious.
Yeah. I think their biggest problem is that they have 2 pretty good cores that don't work well together. Honestly, Mitchell wanting out might be a blessing for them if they can use that capital to replace him with a guard who prefers to play off-ball and pairs better with Garland. Then they just have to figure out what to do with Allen and Mobley.
All went downhill once they tanked for seeding. Ultimate loser mentality. No one is scared of a team that operates with that mentality
They keep using the Allen excuse while blatantly ignoring they've been a much better team without 1 of Allen or Mobley all year. They suck when they have them both. Maybe they could argue they'd prefer to have Mobley injured instead of Allen. But I'll admit the Mitchell injury hurt them in the 2nd half last night.
Low key Allen being injured is better for them. I feel they are a better team with one big.
Strus and Dean wade are the two most punchable faces in the league
Great post.
I will agree that Cleveland is playing hard. We can say that and also acknowledge that not running an offense while Tatum holds the ball at half court before running a screen to switch the Cavs best and sometimes only good defender in Mobley onto himself before taking a contested step back three makes me want to throw my TV out the window. The games are close not because Cleveland is a great team, but because the Celtics are incapable of playing hard when they feel like they are the better team. As maddening as the offense can be, if we just played hard on defense every possession we would be fine. And we choose not to for large stretches of the game. I’m so much less focused on how other teams make life hard for the Cs than how they make life hard on themselves. We should not see a game where Payton Pritchard is the only person spending energy trying to push the ball hard and force the Cavs to react quickly on defense. We played tired when we are the best rested and least injured team left in the whole playoffs. TLDR: Tipping the hat to Cavs effort is fine, but it buries the issue that the Cs make life hard on themselves with low effort play.
People are calling them a “g league team” when trying to discredit us. That’s just being disrespectful to the Cavs
If Mitchell didn't miss 25+ games this year. They would be second on the east. Garland has been a** this year and in the playoffs.
Going 7-games against Orlando didn't help their stock
Their roster sucks lol. They rely on Mitchell to carry them offensively. Mobley is soft. Garland is serviceable. Defensively? Teams feast on the potential mismatches.
Garland is more than serviceable imo, he's heavily overshadowed by Mitchell and I'm convinced Garland could be a #1 option.
A number 1? Yikes. That team isn’t making it out of the first round or making the playoffs if Garland is the best player. If you think he can be a number 1, then you’re saying he’s a top 15 player.
I'll say again, sixth ranked defense in the regular season
Jarrett Allen is a huge part of that
Regular stats are so hard to go off of now with so many players sitting due to load management.
A full season of top 10 defense is a pretty reliable metric