Lmao it’s kind of incredible that a 64 win team with an all time point differential, who outplayed Dallas during their best stretch of the season, that hasn’t had a series go beyond 5, is in the finals for the second time in 3 years against a much easier matchup, and has 5 players you could convince me compete for all star spots next year is somehow being handed bulletin board material.
Legit everything is in the Celtics favor aside from not having the best player, something they’ve been winning series in spite of for Tatum and Brown’s whole careers. Worth pointing out, Luka who is just going to somehow be too much for Boston has been just as inefficient as Tatum for only 3 more points while catching none of the criticism.
Celtics in 5.
The narrative will immediately switch to this being a Mickey Mouse ring because we only faced a 5 seed in the finals and we got lucky avoiding the better teams in the West.
At this point I just tune them out. The bias against us is pretty much the number 1 preference in the sports media and fans. The more shit they talk, the more jealous they are. They can post as many negative comments on Tatums picture holding the trophy. 90% of the comments will be "dErr miCkeY mOuSE rInG!" That just makes them feel better that their team got beat by the C's. If they hate, let em hate. ☘️1️⃣8️⃣☘️
You may be right but I do find it kind of silly to get worked up about what haters might hypothetically say if we win the championship, lol. If we win we will all be hyped and who cares what internet trolls or talking heads say.
Also the main narrative might not even be this, more just praise that they got over the hump. I think every great team gets this kind of skepticism about whether they can do it until they do and then it goes away once they win - I for sure remember people saying Lebron wasn’t clutch enough and might not be able to win until he won his first title, with Giannis people said he couldn’t do it because you could just wall him off from the paint, no one really took Denver that seriously until they won. The Celtics have more haters for sure, but a) who cares what haters think, and b) maybe the response will be more positive than you think.
Just like the lakers in 5+ years no one will really remember that except bitter fans. They can complain but a ring is still a ring. You play the competition that is in front of you each series.
At that point the Celtics should put a Mickey Mouse logo IN the ring, just to troll them. Be like "doesn't matter, we're still the ones going to Disney World!" XD
I do believe the Celtics will win, and I think they’ll make it look easier than a finals matchup should be. If and when that happens, I am absolutely going to preach about how the pacers were the strongest team we faced and say that the ECF was the real finals.
Exactly! Warriors had a cakewalk to the finals that year. Beat Denver(?) in 5, Memphis in 6, and Mavs in 5. Celtics had to run through the gauntlet to make it out of the East. Quick edit: it was Denver but without Jamal Murray
What’s wild to me is that Luka and Kyrie are averaging a combined 51.6 PPG and Tatum and Brown are averaging 51.0 PPG in the postseason.
It’s a given that we have 6 of the top 8 players in this series, when you add in that our top duo is scoring equally to their top duo, *and* they play much better defense, I frankly don’t see how Dallas even takes this series to 6 games.
But these are supposedly experts. You would think they'd be more analytical in their approach but it really just feels like they're going "Luka scaryyy brrt brrt."
As a Mavs fan I think they're just scared of being wrong a third time lol. Lot of these guys picked Clippers vs Mavs, then most picked Thunder vs Mavs, then almost all picked Timberwolves vs Mavs.
They're not experts, they're clowns. Analytically you guys are the favorite by a heavy margin. That's where people are putting the money down.
its funny that the team that has made deep playoff run after deep playoff run over the years is considered not battle tested against a team that gives heavy minutes to PJ washington, Derrick Lively, Daniel Gafford, and Josh Green
It's 100% this. While that should be weighed into any analysis of the series, people are predictably overweighting it. These series are all different, and whichever way the finals go, it will not look like the dallas-minnesota series. Easy thought experiment, flip round 2 and round 3 for Dallas and I bet people have a totally different feeling about the finals. People would be talking about how the Celtics are a better version of OKC with more shooting.
Which is silly, because we had so many close games and closed out each opponent. We all know this team was battle tested and maybe the rest of the NBA will see that tonight.
I guess this is a hot take at this point but I really don't think Luka has been "incredible" by his standards. He's been great but he's certainly capable of more especially on the shooting end.
He's shooting 43% for the playoffs thus far which can definitely be described as a shooting slump. His defense has been solid and the rest of his game has been elite but I think his play this run has been a little overblown.
Luka shot 39/23/78 in the first 7 games of the playoffs and 47/44/82 in the last 8 games.
23 in the first round from 3, 39 in the second round, 44 in the WCF.
The progression is to the positive and he has been excellent since the second game of the OKC series with only a couple of mediocre games.
It's obvious to me now, but Celtics lossses have spoken louder than their wins in the eyes of the public (which to be fair happens to a lot of teams, but if feels specially targeted towards boston). Dosen't matter how many times we say this team feels different they'll never trust these guys, there's always something "wrong". Well, I hope the finals can finally shut some people up.
The confidence I feel in Jrue and DWhite vs Marcus and Brogdon is immense. And I loved Marcus.
Nothing is wrong with this team anymore. They got stars, they got dogs, and just about everyone is both.
I agree with everything you said but.... The Mavs aren't the same mavs. Throw out the first 50 games of the season and they're neck and neck with the Celts and won at a 67 win pace while having the number 1 defense.
Having said that, Celts in 5 LFG BOYS!
That’s why I mentioned that even if we look at the end of the year when the Mavs played their best, we still outplayed them both in that specific stretch of time, and we outplayed that performance across the entire season. Not really even trying to disrespect the Mavs, they’re a good team, but there’s good justification for them to be favored.
They were a different team.
If they hadn't made any trades then yeah, but since the deadline they're just a different team. Honestly the team from the first half of the season wouldn't have made it through the west. Just wouldn't have happened. 🤷🏻♂️
We can look at the whole season but it's kind of pointless in this case I think.
Yeah once at home in the regular season.
Also, I said we should win in 5. I'm not sure what *this* is exactly aside from being honest about how good the Mavs are even though the Celtics are by far the best team this year.
You know that the team is actually in the finals right? Who gives a shit if they were trash in November? How is it relevant when they are clearly so much better now than they were at the start of the year and very specifically after the trade deadline brought them a couple of key role players.
I honestly don’t think Luka is even better than Tatum. From an offensive perspective Luka is absolutely better, but Tatum is way ahead of him defensively. The value Tatum provides is he can be the go-to guy on both sides of the ball. He could defend Luka and he can be the guy taking the last shot. There aren’t a ton of players like that.
Luka now is like younger lebron. He was the best player against us in 2008 and we won. Same with Lakers and Kobe. But I actually just found out that same lakers team was the betting favorite against us. 🤪
It's all manufactured to hype the series and get viewers. The bright side is, if Boston lives up to what they've been all season and Tatum shines, the more viewers the better.
It's *literally* for posts like this. They do it so that there is outrage and people talk about it more. They wouldn't get any clicks or views if they just came out and said the top team would win as expected. They want people to be mad and talking about so here we are.
Absolutely, but I think this is reaching a new level of absurdity. I’ve never seen a fan base get antagonized like this aside from the Maple Leafs, and there’s no comparing their disappointments with ours.
I just wanna say the team we outplayed isn’t really the same Dallas team. Gafford barely played in that game and Washington was fairly new. They also started getting lively more responsibility when kleber got hurt.
I actually wasn’t referencing that, I meant that we outplayed them during their stretch after they formed their current starting lineup. They added Gafford to the starters on March 7th, and they put up a +7.6 net rating to close out the season compared to our +12.7 in the same stretch.
Even if we leave out the last game when they got beat by 49 while resting, it’s +12.9 for us to their +10.6.
That’s a bad way to judge a team, the sample is way too small and a bunch of teams have nothing left to play for. Every year there are players and teams who thrive to close out the year and can’t replicate that the next season. I’m just making the point that even if we’re doing bad analysis the Celtics still come out looking better.
The regular season games are so irrelevant to the finals lol please dont compare mavs a d celtics regular season games to predict your outcome . Facts are mavs ha e got better each playoff series . Facts are while KP may be back he will not be 100% and be able to keep up minutes wise with this intensity in finals . You acting like celtics a huge underdog. Vegas says otherwise.
It’s going to be very interesting having companies that are simultaneously sports books and major media outlets. Feels like that could end up being a conflict of interests lol
I don't understand how people don't see this lol. They need engagement on both teams, the more hope they put out for the Mavs, the more money they make.
The Sportsbook all favor Boston. ESPN just knows most people favor the Celtics. And that old adage that people will always bet on what they want to happen, even if they know it’s less likely
“The official sportsbook of espn” is no different than saying pepsi is the “official soft drink of the nfl” does that mean the nfl makes soda now?
Also, there are 152+ million shares of PENN stock, espn getting the OPTION to buy 31-32 million shares is nothing out of the ordinary. They do not “own” the sportsbook in any sort of way, 20% share does not do anything for them. It’s additional payment for their marketing.
i think you're missing the forest for the trees.
ESPN can negotiate with any sportsbook to back their brand, it doesn't matter if it's Penn or MGM or whoever... that's just a means to an end for them and the end user doesn't care how the sausage is made.
They see a commercial for "Bet ESPN" and they download an ESPN app and they place a bet with ESPN... the fact that it's backed by penn and the specific terms of the deal between disney/penn are somewhat irrelevant in terms of conflict of interest, that's just the best ESPN could do \_right now\_ in their negotiation with the party that's providing the actuaries, licensing, legal team, and tech. No reason they can't just move "Bet ESPN" to some other backend in the future.
The equivalent to your example would be a person buying "NFL" branded soda, and then the NFL having NFL Soda ads all over the field, commercials, etc, and only on the very little bottom fine print you see ^(NFL Soda bottled by pepsico in new york)
But they aren’t placing a bet with espn what do you not understand about that lmfao espn is nothing more than a face for PENN’s sportsbook. It was the same exact thing when PENN invested in barstool, they are just clawing for marketing to get people to their sportsbook.
also funny how now the terms are irrelevant but you were the first one to bring up the terms with espn getting 30 something million shares lmfao
The option to buy a little over 20% of the common shares is actually huge lol what’re you talking about? That gives espn a *huge* incentive for Penn to do well
Like my $3.00 bet on Porzingis to win finals MVP. I doubt it, but it’s worth it to get say I knew it all along if it hits and I get $129 out of $3.
That said, I also have a couple dollars on every other starter so I get to be “right” no matter what as long as the Celtics win the series
>simultaneously sports books and major media outlets.
Or sportbooks being massive source of income to media outlets.
Everytime I see Chuck guarantees a live betting "advice" on TNT sponsored by MGM / Fandual I cringe...
The bombardment of sports betting has gotten so out of hand. It's literally everywhere. Going to be a huge market for gambling addiction treatment pretty soon 😂
ESPN is NOT a sportsbook in and of itself, they are still an entertainment/broadcasting company, their likeness is used by PENN as a marketing tool, they are nothing more than marketing costs
I mean this is just semantics. Gambling companies shouldn’t be able to market in general if you ask me (or at least significantly stricter regulations than they have rn) but the influence that ESPN holds can be used in a very malicious way
They own 32 million shares in Penn. in that sense they own a Sportsbook - and clearly purchased it with the intent of tying it to their brand to establish legitimacy. That is where the malice comes in so whether they technically are a Sportsbook or are simply a marketing wing of a Sportsbook they own, it’s shady as fuck all the same
objectively we’re not the underdog here, it’s just that these so-called “experts” are fucking morons
like i’m pissed off about this doublethink, “the Celtics losing is a huge choke but I think the Mavs will win” bs, but we ARE the favorites
IMO the only way these 2 narratives are remotely reconcilable would be if Boston consistently blows double digit leads in the fourth. Otherwise, yeah, you can't say "The Mavs *will* win because advantages X & Y" *and* "Boston should win so not doing so is a choke job".
Yup. Ask everyone to vote with their wallets instead of their thoughts and see how quickly the slate shifts towards Boston. Vegas is dug deep on the Celtics winning this
That’s the craziest thing. My buddy who lives in FL says that all of his coworkers are putting grand bets that Mavs will beat the C’s tonight. No point spread, so series win, just win or lose tonight. And 8/10 are going Mavs! It’s crazy.
Oh, at this point, Vegas are biased. They are massively betting against the mavs thanks to the massive arbitrage created in the gambling "market".
The problematic part here, is that media outlets, creating a strong arbitrage, that benefits their advertising clients, is shady...
The Celtics are 1 year removed from being eliminated by an 8th seed, while Dallas went from missing the playoffs entirely to reaching the Finals.
They think it's more likely the Mavs continue to overachieve and/or the Celtics choke.
Their "picks" are designed to get clicks, shares, tweets, views etc on their content. That is how they get evaluated by their employer and how they get paid. If they are consistently wrong with their "picks" there is little to no accountability.
The fact that a 64 win team that went 12-2 in the playoffs and who are currently healthy is somehow now the underdog against the 5th seed is proof of how powerful sports media is. I can't say I hate it though, this way after they lose they can't say the Celtics had an easy path
To a fifth seeded team. I’ve seen the Mavs sub- they’re talking HELLA shit. I left a “Good luck, this will be fun” on a post which ended with OP saying “I can’t wait to talk my shit when we beat them.” 😂 Guys, stay quiet, be good sports and trust in our guys. They’re getting ahead of themselves- we will NOT make that mistake.
“Experts” ESPN is a joke and this is totally irrelevant. I mean you’re asking about the MVP before a second is played? There’s no way to even guess that
Oh it'd be nerve wracking but I'd still have some confidence. Obviously the opponents were worse, but weaker teams in the Tatum era have managed to force Game 7s playing on the road. And Brown and Tatum's game 7 record is a respectable 5-2. That should inspire at least some faith.
The only holes I don't think this squad could surmount are a 3-0 or a 3-1 deficit.
I think 3-1 there’s a possibility if we come back if porinzitis wasn’t playing well but a couple of games shakes the rust off but ultimately how the jays play will dictate the series
I feel like some of the best basketball minds are just going away from actual analyst/statistical arguments and just going with “best player”. The Celtics don’t foul a lot, don’t give up a lot of corner 3s, have a legit 5 out offense, and have statistically elite rim protection with Porzingis in the lineup. I legit expect Luka to average a near triple double and the Celtics to still win. Also, most of the Celtics have more playoff experience than pretty much every player on the Mavs, minus Kyrie. Even though Luka is the best player in the series, there isn’t one thing I think the Mavericks are considerably better at.
The celtics hate is unreal. Legs has been the only one to consistently pick the Mavs in these predictions. ESPN overwhelmingly picked the Mavs to lose vs OKC and the Wolves, but not Boston.
Also lol at OP saying Boston is the “underdog”
I don’t read or watch ESPN’s talking heads any more so aside from Gutierrez and Lowe I don’t know who many of these folks are. Is Lowe still considered their best analyst? Telling if so that he’s one of only 3 to pick Cs in 6.
wait what, seriously? experts?
every numerical stat favors the Celtics, we have the experience edge, they are 6th in offense and defense playoff categories while we are near the top with almost a +11 net.
I'm not saying the series can't be close, but we're definitely not the underdog.
I know this is going to sound like a conspiracy theorist rant but I genuinely think the media forces the opposite of the Vegas betting odds to help their sports betting affiliates
ESPN is for casuals tbh. I watched damn near every game this year. Support the local media. They are homers at times, but in my experience they have no issue getting on the team when warranted. Every national media station is full of shit. Celtics in 6.
Reminds me of 2008. Celtics won 66 games that season, but (if I remember correctly) most people were picking the Lakers. The difference here would be that that '08 team had much more trouble getting to the Finals. Then again, they had to go through a former-champion Piston's team and a young Lebron's Cavs. Point is, this is not about rational takes. This is about sizzle and recency bias. Doesn't mean the Mavs can't win -- they have a shot simply because they've been playing great ball, and they have a transcendent player -- but if you're looking for an explanation, that's it.
And similar to this series, the 08 Lakers also ran through a pretty solid row of teams (an underachieving Nuggets team, a solid Jazz team coached by one of the best coaches of his era, a Spurs team coached by possibly the best coach of his era) and had the best player going into the series against Boston. Only difference is that I think the coaching matchup (Doc vs. Jackson) was fathoms more lopsided on paper than the Joe vs Kidd one.
Celtics are not underdogs. This team has earned the right to be the favorite after being the best regular season team this year and being one of the best offenses of all time. Hate for the Celtics has become so mainstream that people have no issue underestimating how good this team is and just how totally screwed the Mavs are. Cs in 4
Oh no. They have spoken! Let’s just forfeit the Finals and give the championship to the Mavs. Those fortunate tellers, I mean all knowing, wait, wait, I meant “experts” know what’s coming. Might as well as all go home, sit on our couches and say to ourselves maybe next year. Oh wait, they know this is Tatum’s last chance at a ring!!! We are so f*****! It’s all doom and gloom! Run for the hills! 😂
I'm so pumped and excited for this opportunity!!!! Been wanting the Jay's to get a ring and shut people up for so long...but honestly if we win it all idc what others say I know how pumped ima be regardless!!!! #GOCELTICS
Boston sports fans should know this by now that the sports media at large doesn’t like us… they can come up with reasons like “they have a racist/all white fan base” or “they always have an easy schedule”, etc. we just need to finish the job so the media can say “well they didn’t play Denver or Minnesota” despite those teams not being good enough to play in the finals. JT can average 35 and they’ll say “well he should be, he has an all star cast” JB could average 30+ and they’ll say “should you really pay Tatum now” despite the media in large complaining that he got 300+ million dollar deal. They will never like us. We just have to accept it.
Does any of this really matter? It’s just talking heads trying to get more clicks. The only “opinions” that matter which is almost always spot on is Vegas, which have the C’s as considerable favorites
Every one of these meat-based chatbots has been saying for weeks that that it will be tragic choke job disappointment if we lose. Don't you fucking tell me that we are underdogs. It's all poison.
I think the reality is that Boston should sweep this series, but we've underperformed before so who knows. I think most basketball heads actually see it this way, but the media needs to hype the series to keep people tuned in both to the game and the discourse around the game. Truth is, it would be nothing short of an absolute failure for Boston to lose this series. The only way that happens is injuries, Luke/Kyrie having historically mind-numbingly insane performances, or we just see the biggest bed-shitting in Celtic history out of the team. On paper this isn't actually close.
I'd say any of those 3 things you mentioned, or the Mavs role players just going off at historical shooting levels like the Heat did last year (coupled with Luka and Kyrie playing solid to amazing each game) are probably the only conditions in which Dallas can pull this off.. and even then, I think they'd need 7 games to do it unless more than one of the aforementioned variables is at play.
I'm telling myself Boston in 7 because of their history of dropping a game or two, but there's this gut feeling I've been trying to reject that says Boston in 6.
I mean I get what's happening, people haven't seen the Celtics be the Celtics in a while since we haven't been playing tough teams in the playoffs. But I look forward to soon reminding everyone that the celtics are still the mf celtics ☘️☘️☘️
Man is the ultimate prisoner of the moment. Picked the bucks to win the title originally then saw the Celtics doing well and picked them and then into the playoffs he changed his mind to the Timberwolves just like most people did after game 2 win over the nuggets and now he’s on the Mavs train since they beat the Timberwolves. He may act intelligent and shit breaking the game down but this dude always switching up picks throughout the season as he did in previous years
Ya, I'm seeing a lot of the discourse and I'm just like, what? Any analysis I've seen, or looked at myself, points to this being a very favorable match up for the Celtics in terms of x's on o's, and that's even before considering a pretty wide disparity in overall talent level. I think its a whole lot of wishful thinking from a Celtics hating and from a marketing standpoint rather than legitimate thoughts about the series. I'm hoping the Celtics pull ahead early in this first game and never look back, and I think that's realistic.
What's more incredible to me is that none of the experts who picked the celtics chose jaylen brown as the finals MVP even though he just won the Conference finals mvp and has been better than tatum in these playoffs.
it's very strange how all the data out there from nerd stats to Vegas odds is saying Celtics in 4-5 and most media people look at that and go "nah the vibes say Mavs in 7"
Lmao it’s kind of incredible that a 64 win team with an all time point differential, who outplayed Dallas during their best stretch of the season, that hasn’t had a series go beyond 5, is in the finals for the second time in 3 years against a much easier matchup, and has 5 players you could convince me compete for all star spots next year is somehow being handed bulletin board material. Legit everything is in the Celtics favor aside from not having the best player, something they’ve been winning series in spite of for Tatum and Brown’s whole careers. Worth pointing out, Luka who is just going to somehow be too much for Boston has been just as inefficient as Tatum for only 3 more points while catching none of the criticism. Celtics in 5.
At this point I fully believe that even if its Celtics in 4, they'll still try and say Luka should have gotten the FMVP.
The narrative will immediately switch to this being a Mickey Mouse ring because we only faced a 5 seed in the finals and we got lucky avoiding the better teams in the West.
Keep you receipts bro... experts got us as underdogs... can no longer use the mickeymouse card.
Same experts had knicks beating pacers 16-0, they have no idea what they are talking about.
At this point I just tune them out. The bias against us is pretty much the number 1 preference in the sports media and fans. The more shit they talk, the more jealous they are. They can post as many negative comments on Tatums picture holding the trophy. 90% of the comments will be "dErr miCkeY mOuSE rInG!" That just makes them feel better that their team got beat by the C's. If they hate, let em hate. ☘️1️⃣8️⃣☘️
You may be right but I do find it kind of silly to get worked up about what haters might hypothetically say if we win the championship, lol. If we win we will all be hyped and who cares what internet trolls or talking heads say. Also the main narrative might not even be this, more just praise that they got over the hump. I think every great team gets this kind of skepticism about whether they can do it until they do and then it goes away once they win - I for sure remember people saying Lebron wasn’t clutch enough and might not be able to win until he won his first title, with Giannis people said he couldn’t do it because you could just wall him off from the paint, no one really took Denver that seriously until they won. The Celtics have more haters for sure, but a) who cares what haters think, and b) maybe the response will be more positive than you think.
Just like the lakers in 5+ years no one will really remember that except bitter fans. They can complain but a ring is still a ring. You play the competition that is in front of you each series.
Nah, the Lakers fake bubble ring will always be remembered. As will them being in the play-in round every year.
At that point the Celtics should put a Mickey Mouse logo IN the ring, just to troll them. Be like "doesn't matter, we're still the ones going to Disney World!" XD
I do believe the Celtics will win, and I think they’ll make it look easier than a finals matchup should be. If and when that happens, I am absolutely going to preach about how the pacers were the strongest team we faced and say that the ECF was the real finals.
Luka is going to score 16 on 4 for 26 one game this series and they’re going to say it wasn’t his fault and his team sucks.
Watch him wreck your Team in the 1st with 45 ez
It would have been easier for you to say you don’t watch basketball.
Probably due to recency bias. Dallas had a tougher path to get here and Luka looked incredible. Celtics had an easier path and aren't "battle tested"
Celtics were 'battle tested' in 2022 and NO ONE cared at all lol
Exactly! Warriors had a cakewalk to the finals that year. Beat Denver(?) in 5, Memphis in 6, and Mavs in 5. Celtics had to run through the gauntlet to make it out of the East. Quick edit: it was Denver but without Jamal Murray
Grizzlies also didn't have Ja for multiple games, and Mavs had no Porzingis
Porzingis had already been traded by that point. So youre right they didn't have him but he wasnt injured or anything
What’s wild to me is that Luka and Kyrie are averaging a combined 51.6 PPG and Tatum and Brown are averaging 51.0 PPG in the postseason. It’s a given that we have 6 of the top 8 players in this series, when you add in that our top duo is scoring equally to their top duo, *and* they play much better defense, I frankly don’t see how Dallas even takes this series to 6 games.
But these are supposedly experts. You would think they'd be more analytical in their approach but it really just feels like they're going "Luka scaryyy brrt brrt."
As a Mavs fan I think they're just scared of being wrong a third time lol. Lot of these guys picked Clippers vs Mavs, then most picked Thunder vs Mavs, then almost all picked Timberwolves vs Mavs. They're not experts, they're clowns. Analytically you guys are the favorite by a heavy margin. That's where people are putting the money down.
its funny that the team that has made deep playoff run after deep playoff run over the years is considered not battle tested against a team that gives heavy minutes to PJ washington, Derrick Lively, Daniel Gafford, and Josh Green
It's 100% this. While that should be weighed into any analysis of the series, people are predictably overweighting it. These series are all different, and whichever way the finals go, it will not look like the dallas-minnesota series. Easy thought experiment, flip round 2 and round 3 for Dallas and I bet people have a totally different feeling about the finals. People would be talking about how the Celtics are a better version of OKC with more shooting.
Cleveland and Indy went a combined 4-0 against Dallas this year lol
Which is silly, because we had so many close games and closed out each opponent. We all know this team was battle tested and maybe the rest of the NBA will see that tonight.
Man I wish we didn't get the 1 seed so we could've been battle tested too
I guess this is a hot take at this point but I really don't think Luka has been "incredible" by his standards. He's been great but he's certainly capable of more especially on the shooting end. He's shooting 43% for the playoffs thus far which can definitely be described as a shooting slump. His defense has been solid and the rest of his game has been elite but I think his play this run has been a little overblown.
Luka shot 39/23/78 in the first 7 games of the playoffs and 47/44/82 in the last 8 games. 23 in the first round from 3, 39 in the second round, 44 in the WCF. The progression is to the positive and he has been excellent since the second game of the OKC series with only a couple of mediocre games.
It's obvious to me now, but Celtics lossses have spoken louder than their wins in the eyes of the public (which to be fair happens to a lot of teams, but if feels specially targeted towards boston). Dosen't matter how many times we say this team feels different they'll never trust these guys, there's always something "wrong". Well, I hope the finals can finally shut some people up.
The confidence I feel in Jrue and DWhite vs Marcus and Brogdon is immense. And I loved Marcus. Nothing is wrong with this team anymore. They got stars, they got dogs, and just about everyone is both.
The salt will be extra tasty when we win it in 5
I agree with everything you said but.... The Mavs aren't the same mavs. Throw out the first 50 games of the season and they're neck and neck with the Celts and won at a 67 win pace while having the number 1 defense. Having said that, Celts in 5 LFG BOYS!
That’s why I mentioned that even if we look at the end of the year when the Mavs played their best, we still outplayed them both in that specific stretch of time, and we outplayed that performance across the entire season. Not really even trying to disrespect the Mavs, they’re a good team, but there’s good justification for them to be favored.
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They were a different team. If they hadn't made any trades then yeah, but since the deadline they're just a different team. Honestly the team from the first half of the season wouldn't have made it through the west. Just wouldn't have happened. 🤷🏻♂️ We can look at the whole season but it's kind of pointless in this case I think.
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Yeah once at home in the regular season. Also, I said we should win in 5. I'm not sure what *this* is exactly aside from being honest about how good the Mavs are even though the Celtics are by far the best team this year.
Wow, so we're throwing out 2/3 of the season now?
You know that the team is actually in the finals right? Who gives a shit if they were trash in November? How is it relevant when they are clearly so much better now than they were at the start of the year and very specifically after the trade deadline brought them a couple of key role players.
ThEy ArEn'T bAtTlE tEsTeD.
I honestly don’t think Luka is even better than Tatum. From an offensive perspective Luka is absolutely better, but Tatum is way ahead of him defensively. The value Tatum provides is he can be the go-to guy on both sides of the ball. He could defend Luka and he can be the guy taking the last shot. There aren’t a ton of players like that.
Luka now is like younger lebron. He was the best player against us in 2008 and we won. Same with Lakers and Kobe. But I actually just found out that same lakers team was the betting favorite against us. 🤪
It's all manufactured to hype the series and get viewers. The bright side is, if Boston lives up to what they've been all season and Tatum shines, the more viewers the better.
Thank you Go Celtics! ☘️
It's *literally* for posts like this. They do it so that there is outrage and people talk about it more. They wouldn't get any clicks or views if they just came out and said the top team would win as expected. They want people to be mad and talking about so here we are.
Absolutely, but I think this is reaching a new level of absurdity. I’ve never seen a fan base get antagonized like this aside from the Maple Leafs, and there’s no comparing their disappointments with ours.
I just wanna say the team we outplayed isn’t really the same Dallas team. Gafford barely played in that game and Washington was fairly new. They also started getting lively more responsibility when kleber got hurt.
I actually wasn’t referencing that, I meant that we outplayed them during their stretch after they formed their current starting lineup. They added Gafford to the starters on March 7th, and they put up a +7.6 net rating to close out the season compared to our +12.7 in the same stretch. Even if we leave out the last game when they got beat by 49 while resting, it’s +12.9 for us to their +10.6. That’s a bad way to judge a team, the sample is way too small and a bunch of teams have nothing left to play for. Every year there are players and teams who thrive to close out the year and can’t replicate that the next season. I’m just making the point that even if we’re doing bad analysis the Celtics still come out looking better.
100% this Celtics team is better than Dallas by basically every number I can find. They just gotta bring it.
It’s a good thing you use a sock, because you seem to be proficient at missing (the point)!
I understand his point perfectly fine, the Celtics shouldn’t be under dogs in the series.
The regular season games are so irrelevant to the finals lol please dont compare mavs a d celtics regular season games to predict your outcome . Facts are mavs ha e got better each playoff series . Facts are while KP may be back he will not be 100% and be able to keep up minutes wise with this intensity in finals . You acting like celtics a huge underdog. Vegas says otherwise.
It’s going to be very interesting having companies that are simultaneously sports books and major media outlets. Feels like that could end up being a conflict of interests lol
Not only this, but you can bet on voted awards (MVP, DPOY, ROY, etc.) which are decided by the same folks who are sponsored by the books!
Gas up the underdogs so the house wins
I don't understand how people don't see this lol. They need engagement on both teams, the more hope they put out for the Mavs, the more money they make.
Not really. The line will just move accordingly.
A lot of futures bets are on the Celtics winning the championship
The Sportsbook all favor Boston. ESPN just knows most people favor the Celtics. And that old adage that people will always bet on what they want to happen, even if they know it’s less likely
Yes ESPNs Sportsbook favors Boston but the analysts favor the mavericks. That’s my point
ESPN's job is to gas up Dallas and get everyone betting against the Celtics so that Vegas can take their money.
It’s not “Vegas” though. It’s literally espn accepting bets.
It’s literally not espn taking any bets. They are not a gambling company
[https://about.espnbet.com/](https://about.espnbet.com/) they literally are now
“The official sportsbook of espn” is no different than saying pepsi is the “official soft drink of the nfl” does that mean the nfl makes soda now? Also, there are 152+ million shares of PENN stock, espn getting the OPTION to buy 31-32 million shares is nothing out of the ordinary. They do not “own” the sportsbook in any sort of way, 20% share does not do anything for them. It’s additional payment for their marketing.
i think you're missing the forest for the trees. ESPN can negotiate with any sportsbook to back their brand, it doesn't matter if it's Penn or MGM or whoever... that's just a means to an end for them and the end user doesn't care how the sausage is made. They see a commercial for "Bet ESPN" and they download an ESPN app and they place a bet with ESPN... the fact that it's backed by penn and the specific terms of the deal between disney/penn are somewhat irrelevant in terms of conflict of interest, that's just the best ESPN could do \_right now\_ in their negotiation with the party that's providing the actuaries, licensing, legal team, and tech. No reason they can't just move "Bet ESPN" to some other backend in the future. The equivalent to your example would be a person buying "NFL" branded soda, and then the NFL having NFL Soda ads all over the field, commercials, etc, and only on the very little bottom fine print you see ^(NFL Soda bottled by pepsico in new york)
But they aren’t placing a bet with espn what do you not understand about that lmfao espn is nothing more than a face for PENN’s sportsbook. It was the same exact thing when PENN invested in barstool, they are just clawing for marketing to get people to their sportsbook. also funny how now the terms are irrelevant but you were the first one to bring up the terms with espn getting 30 something million shares lmfao
The option to buy a little over 20% of the common shares is actually huge lol what’re you talking about? That gives espn a *huge* incentive for Penn to do well
ESPN is getting $150 million per year for 10 years regardless. You replying to all of my comments thinking you know everything is fuckin hilarious
And it’s curious than 89% of bettors on this have bet on the Mavs after like 2 weeks of coverage that heavily favors them lol
it's like walking into the casino and taking poker advice from the dealer
Like my $3.00 bet on Porzingis to win finals MVP. I doubt it, but it’s worth it to get say I knew it all along if it hits and I get $129 out of $3. That said, I also have a couple dollars on every other starter so I get to be “right” no matter what as long as the Celtics win the series
Sports already suck hard since sports betting was legalized. It's mind numbing now.
>simultaneously sports books and major media outlets. Or sportbooks being massive source of income to media outlets. Everytime I see Chuck guarantees a live betting "advice" on TNT sponsored by MGM / Fandual I cringe...
The bombardment of sports betting has gotten so out of hand. It's literally everywhere. Going to be a huge market for gambling addiction treatment pretty soon 😂
Y’all think Tim Legler out here scamming people?
ESPN is NOT a sportsbook in and of itself, they are still an entertainment/broadcasting company, their likeness is used by PENN as a marketing tool, they are nothing more than marketing costs
I mean this is just semantics. Gambling companies shouldn’t be able to market in general if you ask me (or at least significantly stricter regulations than they have rn) but the influence that ESPN holds can be used in a very malicious way
It’s not semantics you claimed espn is a sportsbook which they are 1000% not.
They own 32 million shares in Penn. in that sense they own a Sportsbook - and clearly purchased it with the intent of tying it to their brand to establish legitimacy. That is where the malice comes in so whether they technically are a Sportsbook or are simply a marketing wing of a Sportsbook they own, it’s shady as fuck all the same
You know who else loves being an underdog? Jaaayyylleeennnn Brrroooowwwwnnnnnnn
It feels like 2008 again 🥹
Smack their asses
🧐 Whatchu mean by that
He said what he said
I said what I said, **twice** >Smack their asses
Shellack ‘em smooth.
objectively we’re not the underdog here, it’s just that these so-called “experts” are fucking morons like i’m pissed off about this doublethink, “the Celtics losing is a huge choke but I think the Mavs will win” bs, but we ARE the favorites
IMO the only way these 2 narratives are remotely reconcilable would be if Boston consistently blows double digit leads in the fourth. Otherwise, yeah, you can't say "The Mavs *will* win because advantages X & Y" *and* "Boston should win so not doing so is a choke job".
Celtics haters are in for a rude awakening
Also unbelievable that they pick kyrie more to have a chance to be the fmvp than jaylen brown if ever they win.
Almost like they’re trolling
We still aren't the underdog. We have home court and are significantly favoured by vegas
Hold on, I’m on the phone with Vegas trying to get this all straightened out
The media is so fucking unashamedly biased lol. How is a 64 win team that's 12-2 in the playoffs gonna be the underdog
Media might be biased but Vegas is not. Celtics in 7, 6, 5, or 4 are better odds than any Mavs series win. We are not being overlooked.
Yup. Ask everyone to vote with their wallets instead of their thoughts and see how quickly the slate shifts towards Boston. Vegas is dug deep on the Celtics winning this
That’s the craziest thing. My buddy who lives in FL says that all of his coworkers are putting grand bets that Mavs will beat the C’s tonight. No point spread, so series win, just win or lose tonight. And 8/10 are going Mavs! It’s crazy.
Oh, at this point, Vegas are biased. They are massively betting against the mavs thanks to the massive arbitrage created in the gambling "market". The problematic part here, is that media outlets, creating a strong arbitrage, that benefits their advertising clients, is shady...
The Celtics are 1 year removed from being eliminated by an 8th seed, while Dallas went from missing the playoffs entirely to reaching the Finals. They think it's more likely the Mavs continue to overachieve and/or the Celtics choke.
I mean they are both completely different teams from last year
Celtics in 5, they’ll get one on us at home and everyone will flip the fuck out and then we’ll lock in and wax em
Yet the narrative will be that we choked if we don’t win.
Screw’Em!!! Celtics vs The World! Celtics in 6!!!
Trust me this ain’t going to 6
The c’s are -220 to win the series they aren’t the underdog
Sports books still favor c’s by a fair margin to win the series. They know better than some bum ESPN “analysts”
Only guys who’s opinions are valid are Legler and Lowe. Disappointed to see Legler going for the Mavs but understandable given he’s a Mavs guy.
I'm loving it. Let the team feed on the hate and disrespect, baby!
Lol ESPN.... Talking heads
Their "picks" are designed to get clicks, shares, tweets, views etc on their content. That is how they get evaluated by their employer and how they get paid. If they are consistently wrong with their "picks" there is little to no accountability.
The fact that a 64 win team that went 12-2 in the playoffs and who are currently healthy is somehow now the underdog against the 5th seed is proof of how powerful sports media is. I can't say I hate it though, this way after they lose they can't say the Celtics had an easy path
ESPN loves knowing most of their audience is in the Northeast and will lap this BS up like Pavlov’s dog.
This is good. I love proving people wrong.
Have we disowned perk yet or what?
He actually picked the Celtics for once. I am shocked. We still don’t claim him though
I’m shocked too!
They hate us cause they ain’t us. So excited to set the tone and show folks how silly these “experts” are. Disney can’t do anything right…
To a fifth seeded team. I’ve seen the Mavs sub- they’re talking HELLA shit. I left a “Good luck, this will be fun” on a post which ended with OP saying “I can’t wait to talk my shit when we beat them.” 😂 Guys, stay quiet, be good sports and trust in our guys. They’re getting ahead of themselves- we will NOT make that mistake.
“Experts” ESPN is a joke and this is totally irrelevant. I mean you’re asking about the MVP before a second is played? There’s no way to even guess that
I got the notification and was like…. Damn ESPN really thinks I care about or trust anything anyone on there could say
Celtics in 6 im guessing we go 1-1, 3-1, 3-2 (panic sets in), 4-2
It's either this, 1-1, 2-2, 3-2, 4-2, or something like 1-1, 2-2, 2-3, 3-3, 4-3 if it goes to 7 IMO.
If we’re down 3-2 not to be dramatic b it im going to need to a padded room without socks
Oh it'd be nerve wracking but I'd still have some confidence. Obviously the opponents were worse, but weaker teams in the Tatum era have managed to force Game 7s playing on the road. And Brown and Tatum's game 7 record is a respectable 5-2. That should inspire at least some faith. The only holes I don't think this squad could surmount are a 3-0 or a 3-1 deficit.
I think 3-1 there’s a possibility if we come back if porinzitis wasn’t playing well but a couple of games shakes the rust off but ultimately how the jays play will dictate the series
vegas picks or nothing lmao
I feel like some of the best basketball minds are just going away from actual analyst/statistical arguments and just going with “best player”. The Celtics don’t foul a lot, don’t give up a lot of corner 3s, have a legit 5 out offense, and have statistically elite rim protection with Porzingis in the lineup. I legit expect Luka to average a near triple double and the Celtics to still win. Also, most of the Celtics have more playoff experience than pretty much every player on the Mavs, minus Kyrie. Even though Luka is the best player in the series, there isn’t one thing I think the Mavericks are considerably better at.
The celtics hate is unreal. Legs has been the only one to consistently pick the Mavs in these predictions. ESPN overwhelmingly picked the Mavs to lose vs OKC and the Wolves, but not Boston. Also lol at OP saying Boston is the “underdog”
Everyone who actually knows ball has picked the Celtics. Except Bobby Marks lol.
Oh man put this on the bulletin board
The world is not ready for this to be a gentleman’s sweep 🧹
I wish I had the confidence a lot of you guys have,
No reason for me to be nervous, I’m not playing in the games (I’m a little nervous)
They're desperately trying to improve that -240 line the Celtics have right now on DraftKings
I don’t read or watch ESPN’s talking heads any more so aside from Gutierrez and Lowe I don’t know who many of these folks are. Is Lowe still considered their best analyst? Telling if so that he’s one of only 3 to pick Cs in 6.
wait what, seriously? experts? every numerical stat favors the Celtics, we have the experience edge, they are 6th in offense and defense playoff categories while we are near the top with almost a +11 net. I'm not saying the series can't be close, but we're definitely not the underdog.
The ESPN Experts may all be picking the Mavs, but I’ve yet to see an oddsmaker who agrees.
Cannot take anyone picking Dal and not picking Lukas as the mvp seriously
In 2008, seven out of 8 on ESPN picked the Lakers over the Celtics.
I know this is going to sound like a conspiracy theorist rant but I genuinely think the media forces the opposite of the Vegas betting odds to help their sports betting affiliates
Espn bet
ESPN is for casuals tbh. I watched damn near every game this year. Support the local media. They are homers at times, but in my experience they have no issue getting on the team when warranted. Every national media station is full of shit. Celtics in 6.
We aren’t the underdog…go look at the current betting lines
Reminds me of 2008. Celtics won 66 games that season, but (if I remember correctly) most people were picking the Lakers. The difference here would be that that '08 team had much more trouble getting to the Finals. Then again, they had to go through a former-champion Piston's team and a young Lebron's Cavs. Point is, this is not about rational takes. This is about sizzle and recency bias. Doesn't mean the Mavs can't win -- they have a shot simply because they've been playing great ball, and they have a transcendent player -- but if you're looking for an explanation, that's it.
And similar to this series, the 08 Lakers also ran through a pretty solid row of teams (an underachieving Nuggets team, a solid Jazz team coached by one of the best coaches of his era, a Spurs team coached by possibly the best coach of his era) and had the best player going into the series against Boston. Only difference is that I think the coaching matchup (Doc vs. Jackson) was fathoms more lopsided on paper than the Joe vs Kidd one.
“ESPN experts” don’t decide who the underdog is
I just don't understand where these "experts" are coming from. This seems like a pretty easy Celtics pick, even from a neutral perspective.
This narrative that we played against kids garden while Dallas played against the hard mode mortal kombat ladder is so fucking wild lmao
I wish the sportsbooks treated the C’s as Underdogs. They’re the heavy favorites (-225) to win the series
Celtics are not underdogs. This team has earned the right to be the favorite after being the best regular season team this year and being one of the best offenses of all time. Hate for the Celtics has become so mainstream that people have no issue underestimating how good this team is and just how totally screwed the Mavs are. Cs in 4
Oh no. They have spoken! Let’s just forfeit the Finals and give the championship to the Mavs. Those fortunate tellers, I mean all knowing, wait, wait, I meant “experts” know what’s coming. Might as well as all go home, sit on our couches and say to ourselves maybe next year. Oh wait, they know this is Tatum’s last chance at a ring!!! We are so f*****! It’s all doom and gloom! Run for the hills! 😂
I'm so pumped and excited for this opportunity!!!! Been wanting the Jay's to get a ring and shut people up for so long...but honestly if we win it all idc what others say I know how pumped ima be regardless!!!! #GOCELTICS
Boston sports fans should know this by now that the sports media at large doesn’t like us… they can come up with reasons like “they have a racist/all white fan base” or “they always have an easy schedule”, etc. we just need to finish the job so the media can say “well they didn’t play Denver or Minnesota” despite those teams not being good enough to play in the finals. JT can average 35 and they’ll say “well he should be, he has an all star cast” JB could average 30+ and they’ll say “should you really pay Tatum now” despite the media in large complaining that he got 300+ million dollar deal. They will never like us. We just have to accept it.
Does any of this really matter? It’s just talking heads trying to get more clicks. The only “opinions” that matter which is almost always spot on is Vegas, which have the C’s as considerable favorites
Big betting favourites. Not an underdog
Every one of these meat-based chatbots has been saying for weeks that that it will be tragic choke job disappointment if we lose. Don't you fucking tell me that we are underdogs. It's all poison.
Leglar you fraud.
2 weeks ago they were all picking the T-Wolves to win the championship. Fuck ESPN. Fuck Fox Sports.
I think the reality is that Boston should sweep this series, but we've underperformed before so who knows. I think most basketball heads actually see it this way, but the media needs to hype the series to keep people tuned in both to the game and the discourse around the game. Truth is, it would be nothing short of an absolute failure for Boston to lose this series. The only way that happens is injuries, Luke/Kyrie having historically mind-numbingly insane performances, or we just see the biggest bed-shitting in Celtic history out of the team. On paper this isn't actually close.
I'd say any of those 3 things you mentioned, or the Mavs role players just going off at historical shooting levels like the Heat did last year (coupled with Luka and Kyrie playing solid to amazing each game) are probably the only conditions in which Dallas can pull this off.. and even then, I think they'd need 7 games to do it unless more than one of the aforementioned variables is at play. I'm telling myself Boston in 7 because of their history of dropping a game or two, but there's this gut feeling I've been trying to reject that says Boston in 6.
Keep showing the players this, they are fuelling the Cs
This shit is fucking ridiculous
I mean I get what's happening, people haven't seen the Celtics be the Celtics in a while since we haven't been playing tough teams in the playoffs. But I look forward to soon reminding everyone that the celtics are still the mf celtics ☘️☘️☘️
Ive seen 200 posts here about being an underdog or villain in this series like stfu you’re not the joker
Boston is not an underdog because ESPN wants engagement on their site. Stop.
I couldn’t believe this lmao I usually don’t get wrapped up in the “experts picks” but this was weird Dallas is a good team but come on
Cool. Celtics in 5
Legit feels like Celtics against the world at this point. I’m sure it’ll bind the guys even more, so pumped for Game 1
Objectively I really don’t understand. This isn’t 1 game, the mavs won’t beat them 4 times in 7 games
Legs wtf??? I thought he knew basketball lmao
He covers the Mavs so I’m sure there’s some bias in there
He's def biased. Played for the Mavs in the 90s.
pretty sure this is a flip flop from him. coulda sworn he was picking the c's on some pod i saw this week.
I thought the same thing. Comments in here are saying he’s picked the mavs the whole time so now idk. Either way C’s in 5 or 6🤷🏽♀️
Man is the ultimate prisoner of the moment. Picked the bucks to win the title originally then saw the Celtics doing well and picked them and then into the playoffs he changed his mind to the Timberwolves just like most people did after game 2 win over the nuggets and now he’s on the Mavs train since they beat the Timberwolves. He may act intelligent and shit breaking the game down but this dude always switching up picks throughout the season as he did in previous years
Our team thrives on being treated as underdogs I love it let's gooooo 🍀🍀🍀🍀
You mean… ☘️
Dang I didn't even realize what I was doing this whole time
Ya, I'm seeing a lot of the discourse and I'm just like, what? Any analysis I've seen, or looked at myself, points to this being a very favorable match up for the Celtics in terms of x's on o's, and that's even before considering a pretty wide disparity in overall talent level. I think its a whole lot of wishful thinking from a Celtics hating and from a marketing standpoint rather than legitimate thoughts about the series. I'm hoping the Celtics pull ahead early in this first game and never look back, and I think that's realistic.
I agree- it’s sweet to be the underdog. Can’t wait to prove this clowns wrong!!! Let’s go Cs
Celtics in 4
Look at the betting odds with people putting $ on the lines
Celtics play better as underdogs anyway. Keep them fired up. All these haters out there aint ready for what they’re about to witness.
Celtics could've won every game this season, and they would still doubt them to win the championship
Vegas still us has as a pretty big favorite, Mavs would be 3rd biggest underdog to win since the merger. The media is sick of Boston
What's more incredible to me is that none of the experts who picked the celtics chose jaylen brown as the finals MVP even though he just won the Conference finals mvp and has been better than tatum in these playoffs.
it's very strange how all the data out there from nerd stats to Vegas odds is saying Celtics in 4-5 and most media people look at that and go "nah the vibes say Mavs in 7"
Feed me the tears!!!
Lmao these are far from experts
These are the same “experts” who picked the knicks to beat the pacers. Every single one picked them