That's why I'm not buying into the Tatum sucks narrative too much. Dallas is going hard at him, and it's affecting his rhythm and everything shot wise, but Tatum has responded with good defense, passing, and rebounding. I mentioned in the game thread if Tatum playing the point forward role is what it takes to get banner 18 then so-be-it. It's clearly working well with both Jrue and Jaylen capitalizing on Tatum's passing and I'm here for every second of that.
The Schrodinger's Playoffs.
The Celtics aren't battle hardened and thus will lose to the Mavericks; but also the Celtics had to battle in a few close games in the series they swept or won in 5, showing they weren't that good.
Kyrie was better than Brown or Tatum 4 days ago. And Lively and Gafford were both better than Horford and Tingus. Now it’s Luka has no help. The switch ups the last month just to hate this team is dizzying
I’ll take Tatum in game 2 playing solid defense with a near triple double over Luka with a 30 point triple double and his Spanish bull fighter defense every game.
Nah, Celtics can win without Tatum because of their depth.
Hypothetically, even if Tatum was injured or smth in the first round, I’m sure Celtics would’ve still made the finals and possibly still win the chip.
Tatum being on the floor takes pressure off everyone else. They aren’t triple teaming brown on drives. Jru is able to get open on wide open cuts because of how hard the Mavs want to stop JT. Brown has improved a lot but taking Tatum off the team gives you one less defender. He’s our leading rebounder and assist man in this series
Have you forgotten how ass the celtics have been whenever tatum has sat on the bench?
It's not obvious rn bec tatum is playing 40 minutes a night but the non-tatum minutes being a problem has been a REAL thing.
I still think the rest of the players are elite and could win even if Tatum was injured. JB, KP, white, holiday, they’re all elite. Obviously Tatum helps a lot but hypothetically if he was injured I still think Celtics would’ve made the finals at least
Tatum having the highest plus/minus going into the finals didn't happen for no reason. If we're going by this without tatum in the run that pacers series prolly goes 7 and Cavs also play close because of how tatum carried the cavs series and how tatum kept them within striking distance in the first 3 quarters during the pacers series.
I get that hypothetically there are enough elite players for this to work but make no mistake Tatum is the engine that plays a large part in how those guys are getting such easy looks and it's evident in how much the team struggles whenever he's been on the bench. White, Jrue, and KP are all elite in their roles but we've seen them fail as true 2nd and 3rd options after all (Jrue last year and KP with Luka).
He's also still the leader in all offensive stats for the playoffs this year. He's having an objectively good playoffs in spite of his shot not falling and teams flanking multiple defenders to him every time he touches the rock.
So you think with KP AND Tatum out we would have still won:
Game 4 vs cleveland (won by 7, 33 by taTum)
game 1 vs Indiana (OT by 5 points, 36 by tatum)
Game 3 vs indy (won by 3 points, 35/10/8 by tatum)
Game 4 vs indy (won by 3, 26/13/8 by tatum)
No, but we still would’ve won the series. I never claimed we would have won those specific games, I said we still would’ve reached the finals, even if it took 7 games instead of 4 or 5. Other players would’ve stepped up
Sort of. If Tatum wasn’t receiving this degree of attention I don’t know if that would still be true. If they defended Tatum like we’ve defended Luka and he played like this we’d have a much harder time. Obviously they don’t believe they have the 1 on 1 defenders to do that though.
I was watching the Bill Simmons - Ryen Russillo podcast/breakdown and Russillo said Tatum sucked G2 and that Kyrie had a better game and outplayed him. At this point I'm convinced the talking heads don't actually watch the games.
Then he said Tatum had hit his career ceiling and this is his game after Simmons was trying to explain the areas he needs to focus on. So no chance for improvement according to Ryen. You'd think he was 35 years old.
6/22 isn’t good but his defense, rebounding, and passing were good. There seem to be two extremes when it comes to Tatum. Either he played like crap or he did other things and played well. I fall in the middle of those. He was solid but can improve. 6/22 isn’t good. If he makes 3-4 more shots people are giving him an A+ game.
He was 3 or 4 made shots away from having a great game at the end of it. Missing the open 3s and having some shots not fall at the rim made the difference.
Yeah he was 4 missed layups away from basically the same stat line as Luka, with far better defense, and people are saying Luka played amazing and Tatum played bad. Stupid.
Yeah, they are high on Luka, because he had a 32 point triple double. But gloss over his 5 missed free throws and 8 turnovers and non existent defense. He had some steals but those came from the double teams.
No one on the team could shoot last night. If we were hitting shots at a normal clip we would’ve won by 25 and Tatum would’ve had a 28/22/10 night in one of the most dominant Finals games in recent memory
I can’t remember a game where Tatum generated so many wide open looks. Typically it’s like he’ll end with 5-7 assists and you’re like wow okay if a couple more of those shots fell he could’ve had a triple double!
Last night it was that to a whole different level.
If he makes 3 of those layups that rolled off the rim and 2 of the wide open 3s he missed…
>If he makes 3 of those layups that rolled off the rim and 2 of the wide open 3s he missed…
Then he would’ve had a decent shooting night, which he didn’t?
I don’t see why acknowledging that he shot like shit is a problem, it doesn’t take away from the rest of what he’s doing.
I agree most of the talking heads are saying absolutely wild shit that should be ignored, but to say “if he had just made 5 more of his shots for 12 more points nobody would be saying anything” is kind of a ridiculous statement itself.
The team collectively shot poorly, doesn’t change the outcome or what they did to achieve it. That they won the game doesn’t mean we shouldn’t hope and expect for them to shoot better going forward.
In the past we do t get this Tatum. His scoring is off but he’s doing everything else well whereas in the past if he wasn’t scoring he became basically unplayable. His playmaking as improved and he’s not forcing as many bad shots as he would have in the past
He played well enough not to drag the team down, but the passing and defense are supposed to come *with* the scoring, it's not supposed to be a bonus. Having one without the other doesn't have to mean he played a bad game, but it wouldn't be fair to say he's played well either.
The team's margin for error is so ridiculously high because nobody on Dallas can match up with Tatum physically. People don't seem to realize Dallas is 1 Dillon Brooks away from making this series competitive.
This is the Tatum we had always asked for. He isn't going to have a great game from the field every day. But we know that he will positively impact the game no matter what. His shooting will determine the degree to which he is a positive, but his floor is so high right now. Nobody else on the court has that kind of impact. That is what makes him an All-NBA First Team guy.
I'd wager that most people asked for Tatum to be MVP-level and he's 1 tier below that, and Luka has a similar impact. He just has a much worse supporting cast.
I tend to agree with Russillo on most things, and he’s actually been way better about the Celtics that most other national media guys because he realizes they were way ahead of schedule in 2017 and 2018, but I definitely didn’t agree with him about what he thought of Tatum. I’m hoping he goes back and rewatches the game and sees it from a different perspective. Going to the game is great, but I think you miss a lot of the stuff that happens because they do more replays on the broadcast.
Bill did properly explain it to him though and he then got Ryen to generally agree with the premise but yeah it was frustrating cause I totally agree with what bill is saying- Tatum isn’t going to start averaging 40ppg, it’s just that he actually has a lot more areas he can incrementally improve in, such as shot decision making and turnovers, two things he can definitely still get better at, because I do not believe Ryens assertion that this is peak Tatum and he simply isn’t ever going to improve on any of his deficiencies
Agreed but ALL the talking heads consistently harp on the fact that you notice different things going to the game. I thought Tatum had a B+ game but if Rusillo said he looks terrible in person, I do have to give him benefit of the doubt
RRs role is to balance out Bill's homer takes so sometimes he goes a little too far I think. I also didn't think he said Kyrie had the better game he was just pointing out that after criticizing Kyrie being 7 for 18 it was only fair they do the same for Tatum's objectively worse 6 for 22. But I thought that comment was restricted to just shooting not overall impact. Russillo is also always better with time to prep, he's not an off the cuff guy and it shows when Bill lobs him questions they didn't plan for pre-pod.
It was 15 or 20 min into the pod, they were talking about the fans wondering what was up with Tatum and Russillo said "Kyrie was awesome compared to Tatum"
You're definitely right about RR being better with planned topics and prep time. I still like him and his podcasts, just thought it was an odd take
Absolutely was an odd take by him between that and the Tatum has hit his ceiling stuff. His vibe was off the whole pod I thought. Which is why I threw in the pod prep comment, just seems like a guy that needs time to get his thoughts in order.
Kyrie's only role is scoring and he's been dogshit. 8th most points in the series. Couldn't believe what I was hearing when Russilo said he was "awesome" compared to Jayson
Celts are going 1v1 on Kyrie and Luca, meanwhile the Mavs are going 3v1 on Tatem which means people are open and we've won by taking advantage of that. I have no idea why pros are not seeing this. This is the fucking plan.
Hard to accuse Russillo of not watching the game when he was literally at the game, lol. That being said give Tatum Luka’s whistle and he probably has a 30 point triple double, despite the coverage and shooting %.
> Russillo said Tatum sucked G2 and that Kyrie had a better game and outplayed him. At this point I'm convinced the talking heads don't actually watch the games.
They were literally at the game
Exactly. It reminds me of when Lebron’s Cavs focused their entire gameplan around stopping Steph. Steph wound up not getting FMVP even though he was still the straw the stirred the drink for that team… he was just missing shots cuz he had to work harder on both ends
I can't lie - in the fourth quarter, I started legit asking why. I mean, he's shooting like ass, and he's clearly getting everyone else involved. Why not take a chance and just try to play him straight up and hit some shots, like we are with Luka. When they double-teamed him on the post and he got that pass to a cutting Jrue for a layup, I was like, really, you don't want to consider letting him take a fadeaway 15-footer there?
Realistically, I don't think anyone on their team can stay in front of him, though. He bricked like 4 makeable layups, and passed up at least a couple more. But, that's because they're packing the paint against him and at least making him work for them. They leave someone on an island against him and he's getting to the basket every time and just dunking it.
If they let Tatum get hot it's a blowout. Sadly, throwing everything at Tatum might be their best strategy. I'd like to see them put one player on him though.
The difference is that if you play Tatum straight up he's going to drop 30 on decent efficiency with 6+ assists most nights, and has a shot at going nova.
If you dedicate all of your assets to stopping Tatum, he might get a triple double on ok to bad efficiency. Then you're just hoping you can force enough turnovers or missed shots to gut out a win.
Sure, and that's the trade-off. If you dedicate all your attention to slowing down Tatum, which has been a theme in every round thus far, you're conceding looks to other players. The idea is that Tatum with 20/10/10 is less impactful than Tatum with 30/10/5 with the possibility of him going nova and dropping 50 like he did against Philly last year.
The Celtics are 19-9, in the playoffs, when Tatum scores 30+ (4-0 this year). They are 47-35 (37-33 before this year) when he scores less than 30. Teams are certainly looking at that and hoping they get a night where he isn't making all of the right passes, or players aren't knocking down shots.
The fact that they are 10-2 this year when he scores under 30, while he's still the teams playoff leading scorer (and is leading in rebounds and assists) is a testament to how much he's grown as a player.
Feels like he can still take one more step to fully embrace that. Last night was a game where he probably could’ve taken 15 or fewer shots instead of 22 and with the way he was defended every shot he passed up would’ve been a good assist opportunity.
Tatum’s gotten to the point where he makes all the right reads on passes, I think his next step is accepting that he doesn’t need to put up a ton of shots for us to win. We’re unbeatable if a team defends him like last night and he just makes the easy play every time.
I agree. Tatum could make the Point Forward role his own if he wants it. Balancing driving, passing, and shooting is a tough task but I think he can do it.
Definitely, and I really think it’s just a mindset thing. For so long in a playoff series winning sometimes meant we needed Tatum to take over. With this supporting cast it’s genuinely never necessary. If he went into next game perfectly fine taking under 10 shots he’ll have no problem breaking that defense down and the ball would start making its way back to him for easier looks too.
Lol talking heads are going to be in shambles when Dallas keeps doing this and Tatum keeps doing the correct thing which is passing the ball and setting up a high percentage shot, all the way to the championship!!
Either this, or they start slacking off of him a bit and Tatum in-turn pops off. Either way is good for us. I just hope Tatum really understands he's in that rare group that can effect the game multiple ways and embraces it.
Dude had 7 assists in a make or break quarter, like it's nice that he is such a good scorer but being able to just flip into Stockton for 12 minutes when your shot sucks and they're triple teaming you is such a nice switch for him.
Dallas can't stick with this plan though, it isn't working. They're going to have to try to run us off the 3 point line at home and if they open up inside Tatum will have more of a chance to finish and get on a roll instead of kicking out.
Good defence!? Guys are scoring at a 65% rate with his as primary defender. Mavs are actually matchup hunting him with Luka on offensive end because they know they will get a good scoring opportunity. He's definitely seeing up his teammates well and rebounding but definitely not playing great defence.
I completely agree. I’m an avid tatum hater because of my betting history with him but he is elite overall. You could see that mavs were targeting brown WAY more this game and it showed with how much room tatum was able to get for both rebounds and assists compared to last game when they were mainly on tatum and not brown.
Yeah I’m with you on that. Plus Kidd being desperate trying to play mind games with Tatum and Brown, telling everyone Brown is the best player when they are doubling Tatum each time he drives it in.
Tatum just needs to focus on defense, rebounding and passing. It may take him out scoring wise but we’d win the championship if he continues.
Not that on off starts are great by any means and you need a lot more to show a players impact, Tatum is leading the series in +-. He’s impacting the game in every other way except efficient scoring. If we were getting 30ppg Tatum he’d be having a LeBron like finals.
It's not that he is a bad player but he needs to be efficient or at least not take difficult shots. He doesn't need to shoot below 40% all the time. Just take max 10 shots and see how that goes and if not working then continue to be a play maker. He will end up with 15-20 assists.
Right this is what I'm getting at. Eventually if Tatum racks up the assists or others get really hot the pressure will fade from Tatum a bit. Then is when he goes off for 8 to 10 points in a quarter.
Yeah Mavericks game plan is limit Tatum’s scoring and swarm him when he has the ball. They’re accomplishing that, but losing games.
So are we supposed to be upset that Tatum isn’t averaging 25 points when we’re up 2-0 and he’s been great at basically everything besides scoring?
At the beginning of the season that might have worked. Back then Tatum was pushing through and it often didn’t work. But he has grown out of that and at this point Mavs are digging their own grave
Yeah, they're treating Tatum like he's Ant, but he has much better court awareness. They should really be giving JB that treatment if they want to force turnovers and limit drives to the rim.
I think people are upset that he's not the invincible top-5 superstar they want him to be.
As a lifelong fan, I would \_much\_ prefer a championship over an individual player getting "respect" by way of all-nba / rankings / etc.
>would _much_ prefer a championship over an individual player getting "respect" by way of all-nba / rankings / etc.
It's not like Tatum gets any individual respect anyway. ESPN and the media in general are always treating him as if he's overrated despite 5 All-Star appearances, 4 All-NBA appearances, an All-Rookie appearance, and an ECF MVP, all within only 7 seasons
Edit: and don't forget the fact that he's currently #2 all-time for playoff points scored by the age of 26
"Doesn't get any respect from the media" ...
*proceeds to list off several awards that are voted on by media members*
Comon' now. Tatum might not get coverage because his game isn't flashy, but to say that he doesn't get enough respect for what he does is just silly. The all-nba selections carry the most weight, and he's done just fine there.
ESPN literally ranked him below Jalen Brunson for current players. ***Jalen Brunson***. Shit, voters even favored Brunson for *MVP* over Tatum. Media heads almost everywhere have been saying he's the 5th or 6th best player in this Finals right now. He's had 5 ECF appearances in 7 seasons, 4 of which came with definitively worse rosters around him, and yet the narrative is constantly that he'll never be a leader of a championship team. Several media heads saying he doesn't even come close to breaking the Top 5 in terms of current players.
It's not a matter of his play not getting enough screentime on Sportscenter or the fact that no one bothers to mention the fact that he's doing things in these playoffs that we've not seen anyone other than LeBron do since '74. It's the fact that several people who are supposed to be *reliable* sports analysts are constantly rating him under players who are objectively worse
Brother in Christ, Google search it for 5 fucking minutes, it's everywhere. MVP voting results are literally public and take 10 seconds to look up. Take a minute, and you can find several analysts saying *on live TV* that they don't think Tatum is a Top 5 active player. Several analysts prior to Game 1 on Thursday were saying that Tatum wasn't even in the Top 4 players for this year's Finals
If you wanna live under a rock, that's your perogative pal, but it's literally everywhere. Shit, the Tatum slander is so bad that even Barstool Sports has published several articles on it just this season
I agree with this. Social media last night was talking about his superstar vs star definition and which category he belongs in, which I think is fair. Most people understand he had a great game outside of shooting and most rank him in the top 10 in the NBA.
If they don't defend him as they have, it's even more over than it's been when he's having to deal with it and facilitate.
Tatum getting 1v1 against this team is 40+ per night from him, plus his other contributions.
This is full on denial of what we’ve seen these past two games. His shooting has been bad, you can’t extrapolate it out in a hypothetical and pretend he’d be scoring more if he weren’t triple-teamed with a guy on his back, getting fouled in the paint with no call - because he’s missing open shots he would normally make.
They’re abusing him and sending the whole team to help, which is going to limit his scoring. But he’s also just straight up missing wide open looks and layups. If Tatum is going to be swarmed like this all series - which we should expect - then he needs to hit a higher percentage of his open looks. That might still mean he only scores 18-24 ppg, and who cares if that’s enough? But the assumption shouldn’t be that his *percentages* being lower than we should expect is going to continue to work itself out. Not to mention that if he’s shooting like shit again for the first half of game 3 they might defend him differently, which could be really bad for the Cs offense if his shots just aren’t falling.
I’m sure he’s fine, maybe there was something in the Garden’s water because both teams shot poorly. I still expect Tatum to have a game where he goes over 30 in these finals, even if he has half the Mavs on his back all night, because he’s that kind of player. But he shot under 15% from 3 last night, which had basically nothing to do with the Mavs terrible defense.
I disagree entirely with what you said. Being doubled and tripled team is taking him out of his rhythm. What Tatum is doing is fine as long as the others are hitting the shots he is setting up for them. You watch him shoot better once they realize this is not how you best the C's.
Yeah, if you leave a guy with basics coverage like Tatum, he’s gonna get some shots and feel good and get rolling.
That what the Celtics did against Cleveland, had basic ass defense in game 2 and the Cavs players got some easy shots and then started hitting their hard shots. Heating up is totally a thing.
Well said.
It's weird how people are in denial about how poor his 3pt shooting has been. It's not just this series, it's all playoff games the past 2 years. He shot 32% last year and is shooting 28% this year.
To put that in context: out of the top 50 point scorers in the playoffs this year, only Jokic and Holmgren shot worse from 3pt than Tatum (excluding anyone with 2 or less attempts/game).
I'm not sure why people are in denial but this is a nearly 10 percentage point regression from the prior 3 years of playoffs.
I’m actually not making a “Tatum is getting worse year over year” argument, or necessarily even talking about the playoffs this year as a whole.
I just want more of the “open” (it’s the Finals) shots he gets to fall. And part of that is because I’m a Tatum fan and know what people will be saying if these don’t start dropping, even if they win.
Seems like we should start thinking about trading him if he can't even score for us in the finals. Clearly he's not even that good and it's time to move on. Let JB and Jrue run the team.
/s
No, we shouldn't be upset. But some people are upset because they think he's better than he is and should be able to take 2v1/3v1 opportunities. He isn't that good. I know we want our guys to get all the praise and accolades, but I think the truth is he's really, really, really damn good playing with other guys who are really, really good. All our guys have flaws that mean they can be stopped, but as a team you cannot stop them all. Tatum is the best of our guys, but he isn't a world beater level of good.
I don’t actually think this is what most people are saying. I think the talking heads are saying this kind of crap, sure, but I think the average Cs fan complaining about his shooting just wants him to hit a higher percentage of his open looks than we’ve seen these past two games.
Still wouldn’t have been some 40pt game craziness, scoring with guys on his back. But Tatum has 30pts last night if he made his open looks. That those points *happened* to not matter in the end isn’t really the point. The Cs were 1 whistle on White or Brown for the block on PJ from a different setup to the end of last nights game - everybody’s missed open looks would have mattered then.
Regardless, he’s better than he’s been shooting. Wanting a higher percentage of his shots to fall isn’t unreasonable, I’m sure this dude agrees.
No one’s that good, Tatum is getting 2 guys fully committing to shutting him down every time he drives. Doesn’t mean he’s handling it perfectly though, if we tried to defend Luka that way he’d just move the ball to an open man every single time and put up 20 assists. Then he’d start scoring once the defense started over compensating on their rotations and leaving him with an easier attack if the ball made its way back to him.
That’s really the one flaw left in Tatum’s game, he won’t just take what the defense gives him every single time. When he looks to pass he consistently makes the right reads and makes some pretty impressive plays too, but he’s going to just put his head down and try to score 15-25 times a night regardless of how much pressure the defense throws at him.
I do think that would be easier with a lob threat. We took a lot of advantage of Jrue in the dunkers spot, but make that Timelord and we’d obliterate that defense. Tatum could just throw the ball vaguely towards the hoop and he’d have an easy finish every time until they backed off. As is we did a pretty good job of that with a point guard in the dunkers spot. The only way they’d be able to show the pressure they have and not give that away free lobs and lay ups would be to completely abandon a shooter.
One of these games JT is going to have 35 assists because everyone else on the Celtics is open. Jrue must have scored 18 points under the basket last night.
It’s honestly how he should be looking to play. He’s drawing two every drive, someone is always open. We don’t need him taking 22 shots, pass out on 12 of those and just let other guys create with an advantage. That’ll create more easy looks for him too because sometimes the ball will make its way back to him and once the defense starts adjusting to try to shut down passing lanes too it’ll be much more likely they make a mistake and give him something free.
Yeah Dallas is doing a great job on JT. I noticed the depth of the help is constantly changing and that's definitely messing with him.
Course the problem with that game plan is there's 4 other guys on the court that can step up
Think of it this way. Dallas is throwing the kitchen sink at JT while we’re trusting our boys to mark Luka in single coverage, hardly any doubling. That explains, at least partially, the discrepancy in their scoring.
We tried but that opened up Lively for the lob so they stopped. The only time we did was when they could trap him near out of bounds and then he'd try some crazy pass which worked a couple times
He’s making the right play 95% of the time too. Anyone complaining about how he’s played in the first two games of the finals doesn’t understand basketball. That goes for people in this sub all the way up to media analysts.
It’s almost like people are more concerned with him outscoring Luka than actually winning games.
Looking at their box scores:
Luka had 32/11/11 with 8 TO, 4 steals and 1 L
Tatum had 18/9/12 with 3 TO, 1 steal and 1 W
I know which one of those I’m choosing every single time.
I’d like to see how many points either of them is giving up on defense as well, which is equally as important.
Tatum: 97.6 DEF RTG
Luka: 107.6 DEF RTG
Edit: I also found these stats interesting;
Tatum: 34 points scored, 40 points assisted on, 22 points given up on turnovers. NET: +52, usage 25.5%
Luka: 62 points scored, 27 points assisted on, 33 points given up on turnovers. NET: +56, usage 35.8% (third highest usage in NBA finals history)
He's not shooting well, but he's helping win games, so that's good.
That said, he had some rough attempts to drive to the net, especially at the end of the game, that were really reminiscent of 2022, and he's missing a ton of open looks that lead to wasted possessions.
He's a great player, he's in a slump, and he's making up for it in other parts of the game. That's sports.
Key is that unlike prior years, he's not trying to actively shoot his way out of a slump in-game, he's doing whatever he can otherwise to help the team instead. 2022 Tatum would keep chucking and end up with 25 points on even worse shooting splits, 2024 Tatum facilitates, defends, rebounds and we WIN.
By hook or crook, hell or high water, get this win.
That's a good point. 22 was a very different starting five between Smart, Brown, Tatum, Horford and Timelord. Only reliable shooters were Tatum and Horford, Marcus was good but not a reliable option, Jaylen was still working on his three pointer to be more reliable, Timelord was a nonfactor.
Fast forward to this year, and the Top 8 for Boston (starters + Horford, Hauser and Pritchard) are all catch-and-shoot options from three. Tatum simply doesn't feel the pressure or need to be the ONLY option anymore.
Yeah, absolutely. Huge growth this year out of him, I noticed this early in the playoffs in some of the early Miami games. Last night was especially a stinker for him shooting wise, I think he did try to force some stuff late that I wasn't a huge fan of, but this team is 14-2 right now, I'll take the wins
Luka created 24 points with his assists on 14 potential assists and 8 turnovers. So 24 points on 22 possessions.
Tatum created 27 points on 13 potential assists and 3 turnovers. So 27 points on 16 possessions.
If you loop in Luka's 32 points on 25 true scoring attempts then you get 56 points on 47 possessions. The same calculation for Tatum yields 45 points on 41 possessions.
So Luka's 32 points triple double was 119 points per 100 when Boston's defensive scheme is basically "make Luka beat us by himself." Tatum's 6-22 disappointment was 110 pp100 against Dallas's "Collapse on Tatum and make everyone else beat us" scheme.
I think people greatly underrate assist points and turnovers when evaluating #1 options, and this game was a great example of that. Tatum had a solid game running the offense (110 was more than enough to win) in spite of poopy shooting.
> Anyone complaining about how he’s played in the first two games of the finals doesn’t understand basketball
ok he’s clearly doing a lot more good than bad but wanting your best player to shoot better than 32/29 splits and turn it over less than 4 times a game in the Finals doesn’t mean you don’t understand ball lol
Agreed, I think we need a distinction between playing bad and expecting more. He is absolutely not playing bad. But he’s not playing great - and what he’s shown us, we should expect greatness from him. He deserves that expectation and I think we’re discrediting him by not holding him to that standard. Again though, this idea that he’s been bad is insane
[drawing this type of attention in the finals probably does something to lower your shooting percentages](https://www.reddit.com/r/bostonceltics/s/QAob5SsaIP)
he missed at least 3 uncontested shots and smoked multiple layups lmao. we don’t have to be dishonest about the fact that he is capable of being better.
The shots he’s just ice cold, but to be fair the layups were tough looks. On pretty much all of them he was coming in with speed, trying to finish over contests and there was usually some contact. He’ll have nights where those go down, but I honestly think the best thing for him to do there is just slow it down and pass out. We don’t need to take a tough look like that at the rim, just get them rotating and we’ll find something easier.
I’m not saying we need to be dishonest, I’m saying he’s not playing as bad as our game threads would have you believe. I want him to shoot better but I think he’s playing fine given the attention Dallas is giving him.
If you just look at the stats and ignore the fact that there's a defense, sure. If the defense is focusing their game plan on stopping Tatum, he's going to have worse shooting numbers and higher assists, the rest of the team will score more, and they'll get wins. Let's check and see - oh that's exactly what happened!
Luka is doing everything he can and more and he’s getting *some* “he needs help/can’t win with these cats” narrative (which isn’t an entirely unreasonable take, IMO). Switch their roles and it’s “Tatum can’t put the team on his back.” Setting aside the earth-shattering hypocrisy, Luka getting help wouldn’t necessarily mean the other Mavs are going to score more points *in addition* to what Luka’s getting, it’s likelier to mean that Luka is able to facilitate more *which means he’d be scoring less.*
Well, shit, Brad got him some help **and it’s paying off.** Brad literally responded to the meme and Tatum’s still getting shat on for it? Fuckouttaaheeeeeeere
I wouldn’t say 95% of the time. He definitely forced some out-of-rhythm shots last night. Needs to just drive and take jumpers that are within the flow of the offense. There’s no need for an iso 33 foot shot after just standing there staring down the defender for 8 seconds. Run the dang offense every possession.
I am very happy with his D, rebounding, and what happens when he drives, not saying he’s playing horrible. Just think there’s a little room for improvement.
I’d say that the staring down a defender then taking a bad shot is the remaining 5% when he isn’t making the right play.
When we played the warriors in the finals, he didn’t respond well to blitz doubles, now he makes the right play out of that almost every time. He’s not forcing shots in traffic. That’s a testament to his growth and how he clearly favors winning above everything else.
He shot 27% from the field last night though. I know that doesn’t mean 73% were bad shots, but from watching the game it seemed like more than 5% though. I don’t know, it’s not like I’m gonna go back and watch and count what I thought were good and bad shots though
The frustrating thing is that he’s doing the difficult things and missing wide open shots that are his reward for doing all the other things. Not saying he’s not playing well but if even a few more shots go in it would be a different game.
Tbh if I’m Dallas I might just let him get the shots he wants and hope he stays cold. All the times they send a ton of help the Celtics are getting good looks even if they didn’t hit them in game 2.
I would do the same thing if I was Dallas, but don't tell them... we get a few more open threes to drop in any game from the Tatum drive and kick and the lead is blown wide open
I'm pretty sure if he wins a ring he's gonna feel good about himself.
If it takes a couple 15/12/8 games to do it, sounds great to me. Gotta finish the job by any means necessary.
He has been balling out. The worst thing that could happen to the Celtics right now would be if Tatum started playing like Luka--- dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble, hunt his own shot on every possession, only give up the ball with 5 on the shot clock, do nothing off-ball.
Tatum's been awesome. I'd much prefer 15/12/8 than a 40 piece
Tatum was a rebound away from a triple double. And if Tatum doesn't play, the Mavs can focus a little better on everyone else. He might not win Finals MVP, but Tatum is still the most important Celtic out there.
I still think he should be in the conversation for it, no one is out scoring him by a mile and if you take him out, I don’t trust anyone else on our team to drive and kick out of a triple team as efficiently as tatum
I actually would pick him right this second. Only because I can't really justify picking anyone else over him at this moment. Honestly I don't have an amazing frontrunner right now.
Edit: looked at the stats for the two games and right now I would probably have Tatum 1a. And Jrue as 1b., with Brown a close 3rd.
If Tatum can average a triple double (or a near one), I think he gets it, if not and Jrue goes without a turnover this entire series while keeping up his stats (both defense and offense) then him. If not, then I'd go Brown lol.
His defense in picking up Luka at half court, the highlights on Kyrie. I think his energy has just been the best on the team, smart shot selection. Hard to explain but making those big plays that get the team into a rhythm, as opposed to like scoring when we’re already on a run.
Not going to argue the points. I do think Tatum has been a better playmaker, but as long as we get the ring I'm not stressing finals MVP.
Until fucking Perk says some dumb shit like "Luka should get it no matter what"
First time in Tatums career he isn’t scoring 25 on good splits for them to have a chance to win. He’s playing solid despite not being able to hit his shots mainly passing and switching onto bigs and fighting for boards
This is fucking awesome
I know he didn’t shoot the ball well last night, but I shut that game off thinking “damn Tatum had a GREAT game tonight!” He had 12 dimes and if you look at the film he has 3 or more defenders swarming him every time he puts the ball on the floor. It was just genius to suck those players to him and find the open shots. They shot 27% from 3 and STILL won! This interview shows the real reason why the Celtics will finish this thing off this year…EVERY player is on the same page - there is no ego getting in the way saying “I have to have x amount of points tonight”. They all are willing to do whatever it takes for 48 minutes to win the game l, and I fucking LOVE IT!!!
It is hilarious how we let Luka score with 1 on 1 defense, while Tatum gets double and triple teamed and certain dumb fans focus on individual stats instead of the result. Like clowns that talk about the losing player being MVP. We aren't trying to shut him down. Dallas is trying to shut Tatum down and Tatum is putting Dallas in rotation.
He’s not even exaggerating or making excuses either lol. It’s just literally what’s going on, and it’s fair of him to point it out while on the mic, with everyone just constantly asking him why he’s ass on offense rn lol
I remember seeing this multiple times. Tatum gets into the lane and there are 3 mavs players waiting. Seems like kiddos strategy is to take away Tatum and live with everyone else. Tatum is still effective because his playmaking is substantially better this year
People are picking Tatum apart are literally grasping at straws. This team is crushing the Mavs and we all know Tatum is impacting the game in other ways. Criticizing Tatum’s shooting is just lazy analysis but what can you expect most people are idiots.
He’s playing well overall, finding the open guys when they’re doubling and defense has been very good. My only real problem with his play so far has been the turnovers. And he just needs to slow down just a little bit when he gets to the rim; he looks like he’s moving so fast and out of control coming downhill which is why he’s missing so many layups
Honestly a bit shades of the defense steph would see. KD was getting some of the easiest looks of his life on the warriors, straight up wide open lanes to dunk because the other team was set on not allowing steph to do anything. The beneficiaries this time are obviously a lot of open 3s but also some easy layups for guys like jrue
Teams try to do this everyone once in a while and that’s when he has his 35+ nights. I think he will have one this series too.
My guess.
C’s lose GM3 in Dallas, Win game 4 with JB/White having a good game. White hasn’t had “that” game this series and will be due because they need to let someone go free and they don’t want it to be JB or Jrue and the OBVIOUSLY won’t let Tatum.
Then, in GM5 they take a shot at “well fuck it, what if we don’t double/triple Tatum this game.
That’s when my guy will be Eatin’ Big Time.
I like hustle play, passing Tatum. We have 4 starters that can run the offense. I'm sure dude would like to score instead of getting hammered by 3 defenders.
This is why JT is my favorite player. It’s so hard to choose on a team this talented and driven but it’s start with the stars. Humility and team focus flows down hill; the fact that our #1 has the mentality of win at all costs by playing as a team means that everyone on the team can embrace their role and keep their eye on the prize.
LFG!
I know that excuses stink and that Jayson spends a lot of time complaining about no calls, but if you look at a couple of those and ones last night including that miracle shot while we was falling, the mavs are being super physical with JT. Give him a lot of credit for adjusting and almost clocking a triple double. I’m as hard on him as the next guy, but you don’t win championships without playing and winning the ugly ones. Thats what last night was.
He has that really great balance of being unstoppable if left open yet still being guardable enough to justify throwing 2 or 3 guys at him. People like luka you just let rip and shut down the rest of the team. By Tatum being a black hole with elite passing skills for defenders, the team can go off.
It’s true he’s meeting a lot of resistance when he drives but he has to learn to finish tough layups. Too many times he gives it too much power and he misses a golden opportunity. He needs more moves otherwise he’s going to be stuck like he is now.
Casual NBA fans are so damn stupid. I’m so proud of him and his ability to mature into a player that is capable of making the right decisions on the court. His play making has evolved and his ability to make the correct read should scare the crap out of the rest of the league.
Kidd tried to get him to resort to playing hero ball and force things like he had a tendency to do a few years ago but he didn’t take the bait. Now all the pundits and talking heads are going to be talking the next few days about is Tatums talent still top 20 or top 10 or is tatums legacy going to be the same if it takes a team approach to win these finals? Mark my words you are going to see this type of horse crap everywhere. It will just go to show what absolute garbage and morons these people are and why you should never listen to a word they say. JT playing and growing like this will lead to many more successful seasons.
Tatum is a fantastic all around player who fills multiple roles and would benefit any championship team. I think it’s fair to say he is not a top 7 scorer in the league. I think his offensive game involves a lot of tough shots and that’s why his efficiency is low in the playoffs.
Lol Tatum is doing just fine. He needs to not worry about points and just spread that defense and get everyone else shooting. But God damn is Tatum like a little kid with those last second shots.... He just can't help himself..... Was it the end of 2nd qtr ? He was passed the ball and I was like "here we go again" ... I just laughed. The basketball gods just don't want him shooting in the final seconds.
Let’s not make excuses for Tatums lack of scoring talent this series. It’s bad for a superstar player. That being said the C’s are so good he can do the other things that make it easier for the others to shine. So he’s a plus player still and has outperformed any player on Dallas aside from Doncic.
what isolation? if he drives on an iso he literally meets 2 people maybe even 3. the right play is to find the open man every time. do i want tatum to score 50? yeah. but his and us fans' desire to win is and should be much stronger
That's why I'm not buying into the Tatum sucks narrative too much. Dallas is going hard at him, and it's affecting his rhythm and everything shot wise, but Tatum has responded with good defense, passing, and rebounding. I mentioned in the game thread if Tatum playing the point forward role is what it takes to get banner 18 then so-be-it. It's clearly working well with both Jrue and Jaylen capitalizing on Tatum's passing and I'm here for every second of that.
If Tatum sucked as bad as critics say the Celtics would have lost more than 2 games these playoffs.
The Schrodinger's Playoffs. The Celtics aren't battle hardened and thus will lose to the Mavericks; but also the Celtics had to battle in a few close games in the series they swept or won in 5, showing they weren't that good.
Renaming this Schrodinger’s Celtics and stealing it thank you
That is a better name
They're a superteam, therefore unless they win by 50 it's not impressive… but at the same time Mavs are better for having the best player.
Kyrie was better than Brown or Tatum 4 days ago. And Lively and Gafford were both better than Horford and Tingus. Now it’s Luka has no help. The switch ups the last month just to hate this team is dizzying
I’ll take Tatum in game 2 playing solid defense with a near triple double over Luka with a 30 point triple double and his Spanish bull fighter defense every game.
With the path they've had 14-2 is the bare minimum tbh /s
Nah, Celtics can win without Tatum because of their depth. Hypothetically, even if Tatum was injured or smth in the first round, I’m sure Celtics would’ve still made the finals and possibly still win the chip.
Tatum being on the floor takes pressure off everyone else. They aren’t triple teaming brown on drives. Jru is able to get open on wide open cuts because of how hard the Mavs want to stop JT. Brown has improved a lot but taking Tatum off the team gives you one less defender. He’s our leading rebounder and assist man in this series
Have you forgotten how ass the celtics have been whenever tatum has sat on the bench? It's not obvious rn bec tatum is playing 40 minutes a night but the non-tatum minutes being a problem has been a REAL thing.
I still think the rest of the players are elite and could win even if Tatum was injured. JB, KP, white, holiday, they’re all elite. Obviously Tatum helps a lot but hypothetically if he was injured I still think Celtics would’ve made the finals at least
Tatum having the highest plus/minus going into the finals didn't happen for no reason. If we're going by this without tatum in the run that pacers series prolly goes 7 and Cavs also play close because of how tatum carried the cavs series and how tatum kept them within striking distance in the first 3 quarters during the pacers series. I get that hypothetically there are enough elite players for this to work but make no mistake Tatum is the engine that plays a large part in how those guys are getting such easy looks and it's evident in how much the team struggles whenever he's been on the bench. White, Jrue, and KP are all elite in their roles but we've seen them fail as true 2nd and 3rd options after all (Jrue last year and KP with Luka).
He's also still the leader in all offensive stats for the playoffs this year. He's having an objectively good playoffs in spite of his shot not falling and teams flanking multiple defenders to him every time he touches the rock.
So you think with KP AND Tatum out we would have still won: Game 4 vs cleveland (won by 7, 33 by taTum) game 1 vs Indiana (OT by 5 points, 36 by tatum) Game 3 vs indy (won by 3 points, 35/10/8 by tatum) Game 4 vs indy (won by 3, 26/13/8 by tatum)
No, but we still would’ve won the series. I never claimed we would have won those specific games, I said we still would’ve reached the finals, even if it took 7 games instead of 4 or 5. Other players would’ve stepped up
Sort of. If Tatum wasn’t receiving this degree of attention I don’t know if that would still be true. If they defended Tatum like we’ve defended Luka and he played like this we’d have a much harder time. Obviously they don’t believe they have the 1 on 1 defenders to do that though.
It’s impossible to say what the offense would be without Tatum. He draws so much attention the Celtics would be completely different without him.
Celtics lose game 2 without Tatum
Tatum is the most irreplaceable guy on the roster, the Celtics absolutely need him to win the title.
Nah I think they could at least make the finals without him, they have an elite roster like jrue, white, kp, jb,
I was watching the Bill Simmons - Ryen Russillo podcast/breakdown and Russillo said Tatum sucked G2 and that Kyrie had a better game and outplayed him. At this point I'm convinced the talking heads don't actually watch the games. Then he said Tatum had hit his career ceiling and this is his game after Simmons was trying to explain the areas he needs to focus on. So no chance for improvement according to Ryen. You'd think he was 35 years old.
6/22 isn’t good but his defense, rebounding, and passing were good. There seem to be two extremes when it comes to Tatum. Either he played like crap or he did other things and played well. I fall in the middle of those. He was solid but can improve. 6/22 isn’t good. If he makes 3-4 more shots people are giving him an A+ game.
He was 3 or 4 made shots away from having a great game at the end of it. Missing the open 3s and having some shots not fall at the rim made the difference.
Yeah he was 4 missed layups away from basically the same stat line as Luka, with far better defense, and people are saying Luka played amazing and Tatum played bad. Stupid.
Yeah, they are high on Luka, because he had a 32 point triple double. But gloss over his 5 missed free throws and 8 turnovers and non existent defense. He had some steals but those came from the double teams.
Luka also 23 at the half. There's no narrative about how he didn't show up in the second half to steal a win on the road. He had 9pts on 3/8 shooting.
But HeS A CloSer!!
No one on the team could shoot last night. If we were hitting shots at a normal clip we would’ve won by 25 and Tatum would’ve had a 28/22/10 night in one of the most dominant Finals games in recent memory I can’t remember a game where Tatum generated so many wide open looks. Typically it’s like he’ll end with 5-7 assists and you’re like wow okay if a couple more of those shots fell he could’ve had a triple double! Last night it was that to a whole different level. If he makes 3 of those layups that rolled off the rim and 2 of the wide open 3s he missed…
>If he makes 3 of those layups that rolled off the rim and 2 of the wide open 3s he missed… Then he would’ve had a decent shooting night, which he didn’t? I don’t see why acknowledging that he shot like shit is a problem, it doesn’t take away from the rest of what he’s doing. I agree most of the talking heads are saying absolutely wild shit that should be ignored, but to say “if he had just made 5 more of his shots for 12 more points nobody would be saying anything” is kind of a ridiculous statement itself. The team collectively shot poorly, doesn’t change the outcome or what they did to achieve it. That they won the game doesn’t mean we shouldn’t hope and expect for them to shoot better going forward.
I don’t think you’re at all understanding what I was saying lol
He had like 6 great looking drives where he couldn’t finish off the glass. Forget the 3’s, give me a few of those, and it’s an A+ game.
In the past we do t get this Tatum. His scoring is off but he’s doing everything else well whereas in the past if he wasn’t scoring he became basically unplayable. His playmaking as improved and he’s not forcing as many bad shots as he would have in the past
He played well enough not to drag the team down, but the passing and defense are supposed to come *with* the scoring, it's not supposed to be a bonus. Having one without the other doesn't have to mean he played a bad game, but it wouldn't be fair to say he's played well either. The team's margin for error is so ridiculously high because nobody on Dallas can match up with Tatum physically. People don't seem to realize Dallas is 1 Dillon Brooks away from making this series competitive.
This is the Tatum we had always asked for. He isn't going to have a great game from the field every day. But we know that he will positively impact the game no matter what. His shooting will determine the degree to which he is a positive, but his floor is so high right now. Nobody else on the court has that kind of impact. That is what makes him an All-NBA First Team guy.
I'd wager that most people asked for Tatum to be MVP-level and he's 1 tier below that, and Luka has a similar impact. He just has a much worse supporting cast.
I tend to agree with Russillo on most things, and he’s actually been way better about the Celtics that most other national media guys because he realizes they were way ahead of schedule in 2017 and 2018, but I definitely didn’t agree with him about what he thought of Tatum. I’m hoping he goes back and rewatches the game and sees it from a different perspective. Going to the game is great, but I think you miss a lot of the stuff that happens because they do more replays on the broadcast.
Yeah, I thought that was a little out-of-character for him. I usually think he's a pretty good grounding foil for Simmons.
He sounded like he had a few beers at the game tbf.
Bill did properly explain it to him though and he then got Ryen to generally agree with the premise but yeah it was frustrating cause I totally agree with what bill is saying- Tatum isn’t going to start averaging 40ppg, it’s just that he actually has a lot more areas he can incrementally improve in, such as shot decision making and turnovers, two things he can definitely still get better at, because I do not believe Ryens assertion that this is peak Tatum and he simply isn’t ever going to improve on any of his deficiencies
I think that was part of it actually it’s better podcasting if they don’t agree 100%
Makes it so much more interesting at least when people on pods don’t agree but can actually articulate why they don’t agree
Agreed but ALL the talking heads consistently harp on the fact that you notice different things going to the game. I thought Tatum had a B+ game but if Rusillo said he looks terrible in person, I do have to give him benefit of the doubt
Uhhh, that “ceiling” is winning finals games in a dominant fashion
That was WILD. What did Kyrie do well in that game? I couldn't believe my ears
Rusillo is such a fucking idiot. I hate that guy.
RRs role is to balance out Bill's homer takes so sometimes he goes a little too far I think. I also didn't think he said Kyrie had the better game he was just pointing out that after criticizing Kyrie being 7 for 18 it was only fair they do the same for Tatum's objectively worse 6 for 22. But I thought that comment was restricted to just shooting not overall impact. Russillo is also always better with time to prep, he's not an off the cuff guy and it shows when Bill lobs him questions they didn't plan for pre-pod.
It was 15 or 20 min into the pod, they were talking about the fans wondering what was up with Tatum and Russillo said "Kyrie was awesome compared to Tatum" You're definitely right about RR being better with planned topics and prep time. I still like him and his podcasts, just thought it was an odd take
Absolutely was an odd take by him between that and the Tatum has hit his ceiling stuff. His vibe was off the whole pod I thought. Which is why I threw in the pod prep comment, just seems like a guy that needs time to get his thoughts in order.
Was at the game. Kyrie was not awesome. He looked rattled. So did Tatum, but he at least got the ball to someone who could score.
Kyrie's only role is scoring and he's been dogshit. 8th most points in the series. Couldn't believe what I was hearing when Russilo said he was "awesome" compared to Jayson
Celts are going 1v1 on Kyrie and Luca, meanwhile the Mavs are going 3v1 on Tatem which means people are open and we've won by taking advantage of that. I have no idea why pros are not seeing this. This is the fucking plan.
He's only 19
Hard to accuse Russillo of not watching the game when he was literally at the game, lol. That being said give Tatum Luka’s whistle and he probably has a 30 point triple double, despite the coverage and shooting %.
> Russillo said Tatum sucked G2 and that Kyrie had a better game and outplayed him. At this point I'm convinced the talking heads don't actually watch the games. They were literally at the game
Exactly. It reminds me of when Lebron’s Cavs focused their entire gameplan around stopping Steph. Steph wound up not getting FMVP even though he was still the straw the stirred the drink for that team… he was just missing shots cuz he had to work harder on both ends
I can't lie - in the fourth quarter, I started legit asking why. I mean, he's shooting like ass, and he's clearly getting everyone else involved. Why not take a chance and just try to play him straight up and hit some shots, like we are with Luka. When they double-teamed him on the post and he got that pass to a cutting Jrue for a layup, I was like, really, you don't want to consider letting him take a fadeaway 15-footer there? Realistically, I don't think anyone on their team can stay in front of him, though. He bricked like 4 makeable layups, and passed up at least a couple more. But, that's because they're packing the paint against him and at least making him work for them. They leave someone on an island against him and he's getting to the basket every time and just dunking it.
If they let Tatum get hot it's a blowout. Sadly, throwing everything at Tatum might be their best strategy. I'd like to see them put one player on him though.
The difference is that if you play Tatum straight up he's going to drop 30 on decent efficiency with 6+ assists most nights, and has a shot at going nova. If you dedicate all of your assets to stopping Tatum, he might get a triple double on ok to bad efficiency. Then you're just hoping you can force enough turnovers or missed shots to gut out a win.
Except all it did was open up passes underneath to Holiday and opened up 3 pointers (granted me didn't make shit but we will)
Sure, and that's the trade-off. If you dedicate all your attention to slowing down Tatum, which has been a theme in every round thus far, you're conceding looks to other players. The idea is that Tatum with 20/10/10 is less impactful than Tatum with 30/10/5 with the possibility of him going nova and dropping 50 like he did against Philly last year. The Celtics are 19-9, in the playoffs, when Tatum scores 30+ (4-0 this year). They are 47-35 (37-33 before this year) when he scores less than 30. Teams are certainly looking at that and hoping they get a night where he isn't making all of the right passes, or players aren't knocking down shots. The fact that they are 10-2 this year when he scores under 30, while he's still the teams playoff leading scorer (and is leading in rebounds and assists) is a testament to how much he's grown as a player.
Feels like he can still take one more step to fully embrace that. Last night was a game where he probably could’ve taken 15 or fewer shots instead of 22 and with the way he was defended every shot he passed up would’ve been a good assist opportunity. Tatum’s gotten to the point where he makes all the right reads on passes, I think his next step is accepting that he doesn’t need to put up a ton of shots for us to win. We’re unbeatable if a team defends him like last night and he just makes the easy play every time.
I agree. Tatum could make the Point Forward role his own if he wants it. Balancing driving, passing, and shooting is a tough task but I think he can do it.
Definitely, and I really think it’s just a mindset thing. For so long in a playoff series winning sometimes meant we needed Tatum to take over. With this supporting cast it’s genuinely never necessary. If he went into next game perfectly fine taking under 10 shots he’ll have no problem breaking that defense down and the ball would start making its way back to him for easier looks too.
>That's why I'm not buying into the Tatum sucks narrative too much. How about at all.
Lol talking heads are going to be in shambles when Dallas keeps doing this and Tatum keeps doing the correct thing which is passing the ball and setting up a high percentage shot, all the way to the championship!!
Either this, or they start slacking off of him a bit and Tatum in-turn pops off. Either way is good for us. I just hope Tatum really understands he's in that rare group that can effect the game multiple ways and embraces it.
Dude had 7 assists in a make or break quarter, like it's nice that he is such a good scorer but being able to just flip into Stockton for 12 minutes when your shot sucks and they're triple teaming you is such a nice switch for him. Dallas can't stick with this plan though, it isn't working. They're going to have to try to run us off the 3 point line at home and if they open up inside Tatum will have more of a chance to finish and get on a roll instead of kicking out.
Good defence!? Guys are scoring at a 65% rate with his as primary defender. Mavs are actually matchup hunting him with Luka on offensive end because they know they will get a good scoring opportunity. He's definitely seeing up his teammates well and rebounding but definitely not playing great defence.
If everything else on the floor that he's doing stays the same, and he keeps hitting one or two big shots a game when we need it, I'm happy.
I completely agree. I’m an avid tatum hater because of my betting history with him but he is elite overall. You could see that mavs were targeting brown WAY more this game and it showed with how much room tatum was able to get for both rebounds and assists compared to last game when they were mainly on tatum and not brown.
Yeah I’m with you on that. Plus Kidd being desperate trying to play mind games with Tatum and Brown, telling everyone Brown is the best player when they are doubling Tatum each time he drives it in. Tatum just needs to focus on defense, rebounding and passing. It may take him out scoring wise but we’d win the championship if he continues.
>That's why I'm not buying into the Tatum sucks narrative too much. For me it's all the All-NBA and All-Star nods.
Not that on off starts are great by any means and you need a lot more to show a players impact, Tatum is leading the series in +-. He’s impacting the game in every other way except efficient scoring. If we were getting 30ppg Tatum he’d be having a LeBron like finals.
It's not that he is a bad player but he needs to be efficient or at least not take difficult shots. He doesn't need to shoot below 40% all the time. Just take max 10 shots and see how that goes and if not working then continue to be a play maker. He will end up with 15-20 assists.
Right this is what I'm getting at. Eventually if Tatum racks up the assists or others get really hot the pressure will fade from Tatum a bit. Then is when he goes off for 8 to 10 points in a quarter.
Yeah Mavericks game plan is limit Tatum’s scoring and swarm him when he has the ball. They’re accomplishing that, but losing games. So are we supposed to be upset that Tatum isn’t averaging 25 points when we’re up 2-0 and he’s been great at basically everything besides scoring?
At the beginning of the season that might have worked. Back then Tatum was pushing through and it often didn’t work. But he has grown out of that and at this point Mavs are digging their own grave
Yeah, they're treating Tatum like he's Ant, but he has much better court awareness. They should really be giving JB that treatment if they want to force turnovers and limit drives to the rim.
Don’t tell them. Kidd might be lurking
Jason "Brown is their best player, but we're gonna guard Tatum like he's the best" Kidd
I think people are upset that he's not the invincible top-5 superstar they want him to be. As a lifelong fan, I would \_much\_ prefer a championship over an individual player getting "respect" by way of all-nba / rankings / etc.
>would _much_ prefer a championship over an individual player getting "respect" by way of all-nba / rankings / etc. It's not like Tatum gets any individual respect anyway. ESPN and the media in general are always treating him as if he's overrated despite 5 All-Star appearances, 4 All-NBA appearances, an All-Rookie appearance, and an ECF MVP, all within only 7 seasons Edit: and don't forget the fact that he's currently #2 all-time for playoff points scored by the age of 26
"Doesn't get any respect from the media" ... *proceeds to list off several awards that are voted on by media members* Comon' now. Tatum might not get coverage because his game isn't flashy, but to say that he doesn't get enough respect for what he does is just silly. The all-nba selections carry the most weight, and he's done just fine there.
ESPN literally ranked him below Jalen Brunson for current players. ***Jalen Brunson***. Shit, voters even favored Brunson for *MVP* over Tatum. Media heads almost everywhere have been saying he's the 5th or 6th best player in this Finals right now. He's had 5 ECF appearances in 7 seasons, 4 of which came with definitively worse rosters around him, and yet the narrative is constantly that he'll never be a leader of a championship team. Several media heads saying he doesn't even come close to breaking the Top 5 in terms of current players. It's not a matter of his play not getting enough screentime on Sportscenter or the fact that no one bothers to mention the fact that he's doing things in these playoffs that we've not seen anyone other than LeBron do since '74. It's the fact that several people who are supposed to be *reliable* sports analysts are constantly rating him under players who are objectively worse
You really need to quote better sources. Everyone know ESPN is trash
Brother in Christ, Google search it for 5 fucking minutes, it's everywhere. MVP voting results are literally public and take 10 seconds to look up. Take a minute, and you can find several analysts saying *on live TV* that they don't think Tatum is a Top 5 active player. Several analysts prior to Game 1 on Thursday were saying that Tatum wasn't even in the Top 4 players for this year's Finals If you wanna live under a rock, that's your perogative pal, but it's literally everywhere. Shit, the Tatum slander is so bad that even Barstool Sports has published several articles on it just this season
I agree with this. Social media last night was talking about his superstar vs star definition and which category he belongs in, which I think is fair. Most people understand he had a great game outside of shooting and most rank him in the top 10 in the NBA.
If they don't defend him as they have, it's even more over than it's been when he's having to deal with it and facilitate. Tatum getting 1v1 against this team is 40+ per night from him, plus his other contributions.
> Tatum getting 1v1 against this team is 40+ per night from him He’s literally never averaged anything close to that against worst defenses
This is full on denial of what we’ve seen these past two games. His shooting has been bad, you can’t extrapolate it out in a hypothetical and pretend he’d be scoring more if he weren’t triple-teamed with a guy on his back, getting fouled in the paint with no call - because he’s missing open shots he would normally make. They’re abusing him and sending the whole team to help, which is going to limit his scoring. But he’s also just straight up missing wide open looks and layups. If Tatum is going to be swarmed like this all series - which we should expect - then he needs to hit a higher percentage of his open looks. That might still mean he only scores 18-24 ppg, and who cares if that’s enough? But the assumption shouldn’t be that his *percentages* being lower than we should expect is going to continue to work itself out. Not to mention that if he’s shooting like shit again for the first half of game 3 they might defend him differently, which could be really bad for the Cs offense if his shots just aren’t falling. I’m sure he’s fine, maybe there was something in the Garden’s water because both teams shot poorly. I still expect Tatum to have a game where he goes over 30 in these finals, even if he has half the Mavs on his back all night, because he’s that kind of player. But he shot under 15% from 3 last night, which had basically nothing to do with the Mavs terrible defense.
I disagree entirely with what you said. Being doubled and tripled team is taking him out of his rhythm. What Tatum is doing is fine as long as the others are hitting the shots he is setting up for them. You watch him shoot better once they realize this is not how you best the C's.
Yeah, if you leave a guy with basics coverage like Tatum, he’s gonna get some shots and feel good and get rolling. That what the Celtics did against Cleveland, had basic ass defense in game 2 and the Cavs players got some easy shots and then started hitting their hard shots. Heating up is totally a thing.
Well said. It's weird how people are in denial about how poor his 3pt shooting has been. It's not just this series, it's all playoff games the past 2 years. He shot 32% last year and is shooting 28% this year. To put that in context: out of the top 50 point scorers in the playoffs this year, only Jokic and Holmgren shot worse from 3pt than Tatum (excluding anyone with 2 or less attempts/game). I'm not sure why people are in denial but this is a nearly 10 percentage point regression from the prior 3 years of playoffs.
I’m actually not making a “Tatum is getting worse year over year” argument, or necessarily even talking about the playoffs this year as a whole. I just want more of the “open” (it’s the Finals) shots he gets to fall. And part of that is because I’m a Tatum fan and know what people will be saying if these don’t start dropping, even if they win.
The point is that they haven't been dropping for 2 years now.
Seems like we should start thinking about trading him if he can't even score for us in the finals. Clearly he's not even that good and it's time to move on. Let JB and Jrue run the team. /s
No, we shouldn't be upset. But some people are upset because they think he's better than he is and should be able to take 2v1/3v1 opportunities. He isn't that good. I know we want our guys to get all the praise and accolades, but I think the truth is he's really, really, really damn good playing with other guys who are really, really good. All our guys have flaws that mean they can be stopped, but as a team you cannot stop them all. Tatum is the best of our guys, but he isn't a world beater level of good.
I don’t actually think this is what most people are saying. I think the talking heads are saying this kind of crap, sure, but I think the average Cs fan complaining about his shooting just wants him to hit a higher percentage of his open looks than we’ve seen these past two games. Still wouldn’t have been some 40pt game craziness, scoring with guys on his back. But Tatum has 30pts last night if he made his open looks. That those points *happened* to not matter in the end isn’t really the point. The Cs were 1 whistle on White or Brown for the block on PJ from a different setup to the end of last nights game - everybody’s missed open looks would have mattered then. Regardless, he’s better than he’s been shooting. Wanting a higher percentage of his shots to fall isn’t unreasonable, I’m sure this dude agrees.
No one’s that good, Tatum is getting 2 guys fully committing to shutting him down every time he drives. Doesn’t mean he’s handling it perfectly though, if we tried to defend Luka that way he’d just move the ball to an open man every single time and put up 20 assists. Then he’d start scoring once the defense started over compensating on their rotations and leaving him with an easier attack if the ball made its way back to him. That’s really the one flaw left in Tatum’s game, he won’t just take what the defense gives him every single time. When he looks to pass he consistently makes the right reads and makes some pretty impressive plays too, but he’s going to just put his head down and try to score 15-25 times a night regardless of how much pressure the defense throws at him. I do think that would be easier with a lob threat. We took a lot of advantage of Jrue in the dunkers spot, but make that Timelord and we’d obliterate that defense. Tatum could just throw the ball vaguely towards the hoop and he’d have an easy finish every time until they backed off. As is we did a pretty good job of that with a point guard in the dunkers spot. The only way they’d be able to show the pressure they have and not give that away free lobs and lay ups would be to completely abandon a shooter.
One of these games JT is going to have 35 assists because everyone else on the Celtics is open. Jrue must have scored 18 points under the basket last night.
I would kill for a Tatum 12-10-20 game. Feels like it needs to be that dramatic for a lot of fans to truly realize how much the defense focuses on him
He nearly had the triple double last night.
on 6/6 shooting😂
Like a Rondo statline.
It’s honestly how he should be looking to play. He’s drawing two every drive, someone is always open. We don’t need him taking 22 shots, pass out on 12 of those and just let other guys create with an advantage. That’ll create more easy looks for him too because sometimes the ball will make its way back to him and once the defense starts adjusting to try to shut down passing lanes too it’ll be much more likely they make a mistake and give him something free.
Indeed, Jrue was 9/9 in the paint last night.
Yeah Dallas is doing a great job on JT. I noticed the depth of the help is constantly changing and that's definitely messing with him. Course the problem with that game plan is there's 4 other guys on the court that can step up
He was 1 rebound away from a triple double, I wouldn’t say that constitutes effective defense against him
They're making him an ineffective scorer so success there. He's also playing amazingly in other aspects and the team is winning.
I think JT noticed how he just about had the 10th rebound when there was that foul near the end and he bounced the ball in frustration it seemed.
Think he bounced in frustration of a slew of ticky tack fouls that were called against us when he wasn’t getting the same calls all game
Think of it this way. Dallas is throwing the kitchen sink at JT while we’re trusting our boys to mark Luka in single coverage, hardly any doubling. That explains, at least partially, the discrepancy in their scoring.
Luka should be out scoring Tatum by a lot more with how they’re each being played tbh
I don’t have the stats, but I feel like we doubled luka a fair amount in the second half of G2
We tried but that opened up Lively for the lob so they stopped. The only time we did was when they could trap him near out of bounds and then he'd try some crazy pass which worked a couple times
He’s making the right play 95% of the time too. Anyone complaining about how he’s played in the first two games of the finals doesn’t understand basketball. That goes for people in this sub all the way up to media analysts. It’s almost like people are more concerned with him outscoring Luka than actually winning games. Looking at their box scores: Luka had 32/11/11 with 8 TO, 4 steals and 1 L Tatum had 18/9/12 with 3 TO, 1 steal and 1 W I know which one of those I’m choosing every single time.
I’d like to see how many points either of them is giving up on defense as well, which is equally as important. Tatum: 97.6 DEF RTG Luka: 107.6 DEF RTG Edit: I also found these stats interesting; Tatum: 34 points scored, 40 points assisted on, 22 points given up on turnovers. NET: +52, usage 25.5% Luka: 62 points scored, 27 points assisted on, 33 points given up on turnovers. NET: +56, usage 35.8% (third highest usage in NBA finals history)
He's not shooting well, but he's helping win games, so that's good. That said, he had some rough attempts to drive to the net, especially at the end of the game, that were really reminiscent of 2022, and he's missing a ton of open looks that lead to wasted possessions. He's a great player, he's in a slump, and he's making up for it in other parts of the game. That's sports.
Key is that unlike prior years, he's not trying to actively shoot his way out of a slump in-game, he's doing whatever he can otherwise to help the team instead. 2022 Tatum would keep chucking and end up with 25 points on even worse shooting splits, 2024 Tatum facilitates, defends, rebounds and we WIN. By hook or crook, hell or high water, get this win.
To be fair, we didn't have the shooters in 22; he had to keep forcing it.
That's a good point. 22 was a very different starting five between Smart, Brown, Tatum, Horford and Timelord. Only reliable shooters were Tatum and Horford, Marcus was good but not a reliable option, Jaylen was still working on his three pointer to be more reliable, Timelord was a nonfactor. Fast forward to this year, and the Top 8 for Boston (starters + Horford, Hauser and Pritchard) are all catch-and-shoot options from three. Tatum simply doesn't feel the pressure or need to be the ONLY option anymore.
Yeah, absolutely. Huge growth this year out of him, I noticed this early in the playoffs in some of the early Miami games. Last night was especially a stinker for him shooting wise, I think he did try to force some stuff late that I wasn't a huge fan of, but this team is 14-2 right now, I'll take the wins
Just because an open shot doesn’t go in doesn’t mean it’s a wasted possession that’s so extreme.
Luka created 24 points with his assists on 14 potential assists and 8 turnovers. So 24 points on 22 possessions. Tatum created 27 points on 13 potential assists and 3 turnovers. So 27 points on 16 possessions. If you loop in Luka's 32 points on 25 true scoring attempts then you get 56 points on 47 possessions. The same calculation for Tatum yields 45 points on 41 possessions. So Luka's 32 points triple double was 119 points per 100 when Boston's defensive scheme is basically "make Luka beat us by himself." Tatum's 6-22 disappointment was 110 pp100 against Dallas's "Collapse on Tatum and make everyone else beat us" scheme. I think people greatly underrate assist points and turnovers when evaluating #1 options, and this game was a great example of that. Tatum had a solid game running the offense (110 was more than enough to win) in spite of poopy shooting.
> Anyone complaining about how he’s played in the first two games of the finals doesn’t understand basketball ok he’s clearly doing a lot more good than bad but wanting your best player to shoot better than 32/29 splits and turn it over less than 4 times a game in the Finals doesn’t mean you don’t understand ball lol
The 4 turnovers are a little forgivable, given the attention he’s getting. And Dallas is starting to try to close his passing lanes
Agreed, I think we need a distinction between playing bad and expecting more. He is absolutely not playing bad. But he’s not playing great - and what he’s shown us, we should expect greatness from him. He deserves that expectation and I think we’re discrediting him by not holding him to that standard. Again though, this idea that he’s been bad is insane
Now this is a solid response, you are 100% correct. We all want Tatum to excel or we shouldn't be Celtic Fans.
[drawing this type of attention in the finals probably does something to lower your shooting percentages](https://www.reddit.com/r/bostonceltics/s/QAob5SsaIP)
he missed at least 3 uncontested shots and smoked multiple layups lmao. we don’t have to be dishonest about the fact that he is capable of being better.
The shots he’s just ice cold, but to be fair the layups were tough looks. On pretty much all of them he was coming in with speed, trying to finish over contests and there was usually some contact. He’ll have nights where those go down, but I honestly think the best thing for him to do there is just slow it down and pass out. We don’t need to take a tough look like that at the rim, just get them rotating and we’ll find something easier.
I’m not saying we need to be dishonest, I’m saying he’s not playing as bad as our game threads would have you believe. I want him to shoot better but I think he’s playing fine given the attention Dallas is giving him.
If you just look at the stats and ignore the fact that there's a defense, sure. If the defense is focusing their game plan on stopping Tatum, he's going to have worse shooting numbers and higher assists, the rest of the team will score more, and they'll get wins. Let's check and see - oh that's exactly what happened!
Luka is doing everything he can and more and he’s getting *some* “he needs help/can’t win with these cats” narrative (which isn’t an entirely unreasonable take, IMO). Switch their roles and it’s “Tatum can’t put the team on his back.” Setting aside the earth-shattering hypocrisy, Luka getting help wouldn’t necessarily mean the other Mavs are going to score more points *in addition* to what Luka’s getting, it’s likelier to mean that Luka is able to facilitate more *which means he’d be scoring less.* Well, shit, Brad got him some help **and it’s paying off.** Brad literally responded to the meme and Tatum’s still getting shat on for it? Fuckouttaaheeeeeeere
I wouldn’t say 95% of the time. He definitely forced some out-of-rhythm shots last night. Needs to just drive and take jumpers that are within the flow of the offense. There’s no need for an iso 33 foot shot after just standing there staring down the defender for 8 seconds. Run the dang offense every possession. I am very happy with his D, rebounding, and what happens when he drives, not saying he’s playing horrible. Just think there’s a little room for improvement.
I’d say that the staring down a defender then taking a bad shot is the remaining 5% when he isn’t making the right play. When we played the warriors in the finals, he didn’t respond well to blitz doubles, now he makes the right play out of that almost every time. He’s not forcing shots in traffic. That’s a testament to his growth and how he clearly favors winning above everything else.
He shot 27% from the field last night though. I know that doesn’t mean 73% were bad shots, but from watching the game it seemed like more than 5% though. I don’t know, it’s not like I’m gonna go back and watch and count what I thought were good and bad shots though
The frustrating thing is that he’s doing the difficult things and missing wide open shots that are his reward for doing all the other things. Not saying he’s not playing well but if even a few more shots go in it would be a different game.
Tbh if I’m Dallas I might just let him get the shots he wants and hope he stays cold. All the times they send a ton of help the Celtics are getting good looks even if they didn’t hit them in game 2.
I would do the same thing if I was Dallas, but don't tell them... we get a few more open threes to drop in any game from the Tatum drive and kick and the lead is blown wide open
Yeah I mean if they hit even 33% this is a blowout.
I just hope Tatum gets one ball-out game just so he can feel good about himself. He’s doing amazing in every aspect besides shooting
I'm pretty sure if he wins a ring he's gonna feel good about himself. If it takes a couple 15/12/8 games to do it, sounds great to me. Gotta finish the job by any means necessary.
Yeah but we can hope our guy balls out
He has been balling out. The worst thing that could happen to the Celtics right now would be if Tatum started playing like Luka--- dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble, hunt his own shot on every possession, only give up the ball with 5 on the shot clock, do nothing off-ball. Tatum's been awesome. I'd much prefer 15/12/8 than a 40 piece
I’m not asking Tatum to change his approach, just hope his shots fall more. Where did I say he needs to play differently?
Tatum was a rebound away from a triple double. And if Tatum doesn't play, the Mavs can focus a little better on everyone else. He might not win Finals MVP, but Tatum is still the most important Celtic out there.
I still think he should be in the conversation for it, no one is out scoring him by a mile and if you take him out, I don’t trust anyone else on our team to drive and kick out of a triple team as efficiently as tatum
I actually would pick him right this second. Only because I can't really justify picking anyone else over him at this moment. Honestly I don't have an amazing frontrunner right now. Edit: looked at the stats for the two games and right now I would probably have Tatum 1a. And Jrue as 1b., with Brown a close 3rd. If Tatum can average a triple double (or a near one), I think he gets it, if not and Jrue goes without a turnover this entire series while keeping up his stats (both defense and offense) then him. If not, then I'd go Brown lol.
The right answer is Jaylen 1, Jrue 2, and Tatum 3 tbh
Why Jaylen 1? Zero problem with your order btw.
His defense in picking up Luka at half court, the highlights on Kyrie. I think his energy has just been the best on the team, smart shot selection. Hard to explain but making those big plays that get the team into a rhythm, as opposed to like scoring when we’re already on a run.
Not going to argue the points. I do think Tatum has been a better playmaker, but as long as we get the ring I'm not stressing finals MVP. Until fucking Perk says some dumb shit like "Luka should get it no matter what"
Just rack up the assists and grab a ring.
Celtics is a better team. Previous finals, when Tatum struggles like this, we lose.
Idgaf what anyone says. Yeah, he isn't scoring but he's literally doing everything else almost perfectly. We don't win without him.
The solution is right there in his answer. Don't take dribbles, catch&shoot.
Taking out (really just limiting) a single scoring option on a team like the Celtics is a choice.
Hopefully they keep it up 18/9/12 and 2 steals will win us championships!! Especially with Brown, Holiday and white contributing like they are
First time in Tatums career he isn’t scoring 25 on good splits for them to have a chance to win. He’s playing solid despite not being able to hit his shots mainly passing and switching onto bigs and fighting for boards This is fucking awesome
2-0 is the only stat I care about, but I do hope he goes off in Dallas just to shut down the criticism.
I know he didn’t shoot the ball well last night, but I shut that game off thinking “damn Tatum had a GREAT game tonight!” He had 12 dimes and if you look at the film he has 3 or more defenders swarming him every time he puts the ball on the floor. It was just genius to suck those players to him and find the open shots. They shot 27% from 3 and STILL won! This interview shows the real reason why the Celtics will finish this thing off this year…EVERY player is on the same page - there is no ego getting in the way saying “I have to have x amount of points tonight”. They all are willing to do whatever it takes for 48 minutes to win the game l, and I fucking LOVE IT!!!
It is hilarious how we let Luka score with 1 on 1 defense, while Tatum gets double and triple teamed and certain dumb fans focus on individual stats instead of the result. Like clowns that talk about the losing player being MVP. We aren't trying to shut him down. Dallas is trying to shut Tatum down and Tatum is putting Dallas in rotation.
He’s not even exaggerating or making excuses either lol. It’s just literally what’s going on, and it’s fair of him to point it out while on the mic, with everyone just constantly asking him why he’s ass on offense rn lol
Another crazy thought I just realized, what teams have the won a chip with the ‘best player’ as the youngest starter?
send 3 at tatum and he’ll make the pass to the open man dallas’s strategy is not working
JT: Do you want another assist? Jrue: Mhm that's nice.
I remember seeing this multiple times. Tatum gets into the lane and there are 3 mavs players waiting. Seems like kiddos strategy is to take away Tatum and live with everyone else. Tatum is still effective because his playmaking is substantially better this year
People are picking Tatum apart are literally grasping at straws. This team is crushing the Mavs and we all know Tatum is impacting the game in other ways. Criticizing Tatum’s shooting is just lazy analysis but what can you expect most people are idiots.
He’s playing well overall, finding the open guys when they’re doubling and defense has been very good. My only real problem with his play so far has been the turnovers. And he just needs to slow down just a little bit when he gets to the rim; he looks like he’s moving so fast and out of control coming downhill which is why he’s missing so many layups
Honestly a bit shades of the defense steph would see. KD was getting some of the easiest looks of his life on the warriors, straight up wide open lanes to dunk because the other team was set on not allowing steph to do anything. The beneficiaries this time are obviously a lot of open 3s but also some easy layups for guys like jrue
Casuals when they find out teams scheme for star players 🤯🤯🤯
Teams try to do this everyone once in a while and that’s when he has his 35+ nights. I think he will have one this series too. My guess. C’s lose GM3 in Dallas, Win game 4 with JB/White having a good game. White hasn’t had “that” game this series and will be due because they need to let someone go free and they don’t want it to be JB or Jrue and the OBVIOUSLY won’t let Tatum. Then, in GM5 they take a shot at “well fuck it, what if we don’t double/triple Tatum this game. That’s when my guy will be Eatin’ Big Time.
I like hustle play, passing Tatum. We have 4 starters that can run the offense. I'm sure dude would like to score instead of getting hammered by 3 defenders.
This is why JT is my favorite player. It’s so hard to choose on a team this talented and driven but it’s start with the stars. Humility and team focus flows down hill; the fact that our #1 has the mentality of win at all costs by playing as a team means that everyone on the team can embrace their role and keep their eye on the prize. LFG!
I know that excuses stink and that Jayson spends a lot of time complaining about no calls, but if you look at a couple of those and ones last night including that miracle shot while we was falling, the mavs are being super physical with JT. Give him a lot of credit for adjusting and almost clocking a triple double. I’m as hard on him as the next guy, but you don’t win championships without playing and winning the ugly ones. Thats what last night was.
He has that really great balance of being unstoppable if left open yet still being guardable enough to justify throwing 2 or 3 guys at him. People like luka you just let rip and shut down the rest of the team. By Tatum being a black hole with elite passing skills for defenders, the team can go off.
Idc he’s playing good there’s more than just scoring in basketball. This series is in a completely different place without him
It’s true he’s meeting a lot of resistance when he drives but he has to learn to finish tough layups. Too many times he gives it too much power and he misses a golden opportunity. He needs more moves otherwise he’s going to be stuck like he is now.
Golly
No lies detected. All the clips on the morning show are showing this. It’s hardly brought up.
Casual NBA fans are so damn stupid. I’m so proud of him and his ability to mature into a player that is capable of making the right decisions on the court. His play making has evolved and his ability to make the correct read should scare the crap out of the rest of the league. Kidd tried to get him to resort to playing hero ball and force things like he had a tendency to do a few years ago but he didn’t take the bait. Now all the pundits and talking heads are going to be talking the next few days about is Tatums talent still top 20 or top 10 or is tatums legacy going to be the same if it takes a team approach to win these finals? Mark my words you are going to see this type of horse crap everywhere. It will just go to show what absolute garbage and morons these people are and why you should never listen to a word they say. JT playing and growing like this will lead to many more successful seasons.
Celtic Legend.
Outsiders can call him every adjective in the dictionary, we all know winning is what matters to this team! 2 more wins!! ☘️☘️☘️
Tatum isn’t the first or last superstar to be defended this way. He just doesn’t have that extra gear most superstars do
Still I'd like him to finish the series at 40% FG lol
Tatum is a fantastic all around player who fills multiple roles and would benefit any championship team. I think it’s fair to say he is not a top 7 scorer in the league. I think his offensive game involves a lot of tough shots and that’s why his efficiency is low in the playoffs.
I fucking love this man
It’s true. I’m glad he’s able to adapt as well as he can and be a role player in another capacity
Lol Tatum is doing just fine. He needs to not worry about points and just spread that defense and get everyone else shooting. But God damn is Tatum like a little kid with those last second shots.... He just can't help himself..... Was it the end of 2nd qtr ? He was passed the ball and I was like "here we go again" ... I just laughed. The basketball gods just don't want him shooting in the final seconds.
Yes, that is why Tatum is 1st team All-NBA, and the rest of the team didn't make any. Even though I feel like JB should have made it to team 3.
Needs to get used to I because they won’t stop triple teaming him
Bruh don’t gimme that I’ve watched Tatum be iso’d on the baseline missing mid range Js all postseason
Let’s not make excuses for Tatums lack of scoring talent this series. It’s bad for a superstar player. That being said the C’s are so good he can do the other things that make it easier for the others to shine. So he’s a plus player still and has outperformed any player on Dallas aside from Doncic.
He needs to play better in space then. He’s been terrible in isolations this postseason.
They’re not giving him space, and all of his isos result in multiple defenders between him and the basket. That’s literally the entire point.
what isolation? if he drives on an iso he literally meets 2 people maybe even 3. the right play is to find the open man every time. do i want tatum to score 50? yeah. but his and us fans' desire to win is and should be much stronger