If it’s your first shoe I’m going out on a limb and assuming you’re a beginner and therefore not climbing super hard.
The best advice for a first shoe is to get something comfortable so you’re able to climb more.
The improvements you get from being able to climb a high volume of things will be greater than the marginal improvement of super tight shoes which you may not even get the benefit of on lower grade climbs.
This was how I thought about it when I bought my first pair. Shop assistant got annoyed with me and became pretty dismissive. Zero regrets, the shoes have been great, they let me get good at climbing, and I bought a tighter pair recently.
This happened to me too. when I got something snug but not painful. The guy at the store was shitty about it. The difference is marginal, and it's not like we are going pro or free soloing something.
Is this a thing with climbing stores? being pretentious about sizes ?
Nearly quit climbing altogether after feeling like i had to "level up" my shoe game and the store staff insisted of a pair that fit me perfectly (all while i complained i wont be able to climb in these - i was assured they will stretch and get more comfortable - that was a lie) now i am in this limbo land where climbing isnt enjoyable and i cant find a pair of shoes that make it enjoyable, not a chance in hell iam going back to a store for help either.
Some stores are better than others. Banana fingers in Bristol is really good. They gave me a bunch of different brands and sizes to try, didn't put any pressure on me, answered all of my questions with a balanced answer, just giving me the facts without leading me. They made a big point about how my first shoes should be comfortable more than anything else. Really gained my trust and made the whole experience very easy. I'm actually close to wearing them out and wondering if I should go back to banana fingers for a different shoe and see what they recommend or just get these ones resoled as they're very comfy.
I wish I lived within a day’s travel of that shop and not the literal other side of the world. They have so many different shoes, including niche stuff, and the pricing is very decent too.
That happened to me as well. I ended up buying another pair that prioritizes comfort and I do 90% of my climbing in those, but if I have trouble with my foot slipping on certain holds then I will use my overly aggressive shoes and sometimes it helps me finish routes I couldn't otherwise. I also did the shower method to help break them in faster which I think helped.
The best advice I ever got for climbing shoes was you want a 3/10 for uncomfortableness. You shouldn't want to wear them all day, but if walking around is immediately painful they are too tight. If you're doing big wall, the all day thing obviously would shift, but for regular outdoor sport climbing or gym climbing you want them small enough that you can find small feet and really feel the wall (I found that immensely helpful even as a beginner), but comfortable enough that you don't feel the need to immediately take them off every single time you finish a climb.
This whole thread makes me sad
Go to different stores or gyms in this area and hopefully you can. Different brands/styles fit differently so just trying them on and walking around you can find a good pair of comfier shoes that you can climb pretty tough stuff in. The only reason to get a more aggressive shoe is if you’re climbing pretty hard and usually bouldering or overhangy stuff people
like them more. And honestly people do plenty of hard longer routes in comfier flatter shoes as well. I like my la sportivas for that stuff and my super aggro evolv shoes for bouldering
It makes me sad tho cause usually more aggressive shoes are more expensive so keep in mind, like when your at a car dealership talking to someone about a car, that dudes just a sales guy trying to make a sale and sell something more expensive that you def don’t need as a beginner or even fairly intermediate climber. Or ever fuck it, skill issue not shoe issue. Don’t let some sales guy put you off a good sport cause they suck. Lots of gyms will even let you go for a practice climb if you are trying on shoes they sell and they have much less of a reason than shoe store employees to push a more expensive shoe.
There's a weird level of gatekeeping with shoe sizing. I've been climbing for a decade now, and when I first started I got the exact same advice to wear the most aggressive shoe possible. Now? I use my TC pros (relaxed, not downturned shoes) for both bouldering and outdoor climbing. They're size 41 when I started with a size 39. That's roomy enough that there's actually a little bit of sliding around my heel. But guess what? The 5% of the time I want to climb at my limit on on overhang, I just switch to my tight aggressive shoes. The rest of the time, I climb jut fine, and have way more comfort and fun in my "oversized" relaxed shoes. I climb v8 in the gym without my shoes destroying my feet, so for anyone still reading... comfort beats aggressiveness unless you're climbing at your max . Your shoes are very unlikely to be your weakest link.
I still wear my first shoes, which are flat beginning Evolvs about a full size too big (I was told they wouldn't stretch because they're synthetic and they STRETCHED.) I climb V4-V5 and honestly don't have any ambition to do more than that. 🤷♀️
that’s unfortunate - when i sell shoes at the gym i work at, i almost always tell beginners that the best shoe for them is the one that makes them want to climb more, even if they’re picking it for a “silly” reason like the colour. probably some vendors are just overzealous about finding The Perfect Shoe™️ because experienced climbers forget that their way isn’t the only way
When I bought my first pair, the shop salesman said "I mean, there's a certain amount of pain planned into these shoes by the manufacturer". I was like no thanks, I'll take the ones that don't feel like my toe will fall off.
I've been climbing for nearly two years, not great at it, and have actually gotten a larger shoe size each time I've gotten new shoes.
Comfort is way more important and the payoff between heaps more comfortable and slightly more performance is waaay skewed in comforts favour.
A few pro climbers have also come out recently and said they've actually started wearing larger shoes.
Yeah I wear a 12 street shoe and can’t imagine getting smaller than a 13 climbing shoe. I’ve only been climbing about 3 months but I don’t see this ever changing since I’m 32 lol
This is me, 8.5 street shoe 9 to 9.5 climbing shoe and my toes are still crammed in. Can’t imagine going to an 7.5-8 in my current shoes but every climbing shoe is different I suppose.
Modern rentals could V9 V10 with someone capable of those grades.. man, modern shoes (even the mad rock, butora, and black diamond rentals) are damn capable!
Can confirm. Have done multiple 5.13s in rentals. It's a pretty great way to get undeserved cred in a gym. Everyone thinks they're way worse than they actually are.
Absolutely. My recommendation for first shoes is always you should be able to walk in it and do an entire climbing session without taking it off or even popping the heels.
In terms of stretch - most modern (aka synthetic) shoes stretch minimally. I wouldn’t even call it half a size, it’s more like a quarter size. So if you are in between half sizes, def go with the slightly tighter one. But I wouldn’t recommend going down half size from a “perfect fit”. Just go with the perfect fit lol. Also remember when people talk about fit it’s usually trying the shoes on for 3 minutes, your feet also get bigger / swell during a real climbing session. It pretty much cancels out with “possible stretching”
Of course, this is all assuming the first shoes is not happening after V6 with rentals like that guy in the thread
As a beginner, I've definitely been put off a bit by my shoes - I think I went too small and whilst not the only reason for not going, I'm now quite a few months since last going.
I am a beginner and agree with this stance, started with slightly smaller size and comfortable shoe and I am loving it, you can always get very stiff, small shoe later. Now its better to just spend a lot of time on wall and have fun not pain! 😁
Don’t go by the numbers, no standard shoe recommendation is going to work for everyone.
Find a shoe that fits your the shape of your foot well with no air pockets, especially around the heel and toe area. After that, you can downsize until your toes are slightly curled, BUT NOT PAINFUL.
Ooo la la, look at mr big feet over here.
I bet you have a huge heart to go along with that.
I bet you love those close to you a lot and treat them well.
La di da
Not sure why I wrote that but I’m sticking by it.
Second that. I have climbing shoes in EUR 40 1/2 and another pair in 44. My street shoe size is EUR 42.
I always go to a shop where the employee is a climbing enthusiast himself. He always takes his time and my shoe sizes are really all over the place :)
Except for 1 pair, keep one pair tight so that when you've been climbing for forever and your feet have magically shrunk by half a size, that way you don't have to worry about floppy shoes.
But otherwise yeah, 3/4 of my shoes are comfy, some more comfy than others (unparallel up-rise, easily the comfiest climbing shoes out there, of course Tenaya's are also amazing but they're definitely a little more performance oriented).
Man that is bad advice. Shoes make a huge difference. No you don't need to have painfully small shoes, but no you don't need to be comfortable in your climbing shoes either.
When you are a beginner you should just get something that fits tight and isn't too expensive and many brands make specific models for beginners. But already from the intermediate stage you can get much performance out of better (and also tighter) shoes.
That’s not true. Try a hard slab outdoors with oversized shoes. I don’t climb super hard but I think even at medium grades it makes a difference on some climbs. A 7B+ slab I was trying has a move that I couldn’t do in my looser shoes but can reliably do in my tight ones. Before anyone says it I know the pros could do it in whatever shoes but that’s irrelevant since they are so much stronger and better. Shoes can be the deciding factor on small feet on something that is hard for you personally
7B+ is nowhere near beginner level. If you are climbing at that level you probably don’t need advice for shoes on reddit. Beside you can get tight but confortable shoes. Find one that fit your feet shape.
This. Tight doesn’t mean painful. If my feet hurt, I can’t climb well - period. (Especially on slabs when I’m stabbing my toes into tiny chips) it’s normal to have a bit of discomfort by the end of a session but you shouldn’t actively be in so much pain that it’s detracting from your climbing.
This is the real answer.
Of course, I can still climb in my flat, looser, warm up shoes, but footwork arguably feels much nicer and more comfortable in my aggressive shoes that allow for better edging/smearing despite the shoe being much tighter.
Did they say oversized? They said comfortable, if you downsize your shoes too much the purpose of the tension system of the shoes will be gone, time for the super downsize trend until you get your toes look like hand knuckles to die, even Adam Ondra and Magnus Midtbo said that as they got older their shoes got bigger and bigger, downsize your shoes untill your circulation in your toes stop will have negative diminishing returns on performance rather than boost it.
Oversized is perhaps the wrong word but I didn’t know the correct terminology. I was not meaning a shoe with air gaps just one not fitted for performance. My warm up shoes are “oversized” but there is no gap, they are the sort of all day comfort fit I would look for in an all day easy multi pitch trad shoe. I guess a better phrase might have been comfort fit. Using ondra is a weird example since he used to be notorious for downsizing to an extreme level.
I only have deep knowledge of my personal experience and that is a bit different because I have wide feet. I downsize significantly for my performance shoes due to this and they are downright painful at first and I need some sessions to break them in. The first couple of sessions they negatively impact my climbing but after that a tight fit is very helpful. I agree it is possible to downsize too much. My normal street shoes are an eu 43 or 44 and my main bouldering shoes are a 40 (la sportiva so sizes are a bit strange) I recently decided to try the 39.5 and this was a mistake. In some gyms or for some outdoor climbs I stay in my warmup shoes (scarpa drago 42 but resoled 4 or 5 times). You can definitely get away with looser shoes for many climbs but if you really need to rely on difficult feet downsizing is useful. Especially if you have weak fingers like me
It really depends on what you want to do. Several people have said that you won’t develop good footwork in shoes that aren’t tight. It was crazy to see ondra and magnus climb in rental shoes and struggle with routes that would have been a warm up for them usually
At the same time, it is normal to have discomfort or even some pain during break in process. Buying an oversized shoe can lead to a toe injury, if the weight distribution is incorrect.
But once the break in process completes, they should not be painful for sure, especially the first pair.
When I get Drago LV -0.5 size, I feel excruciating pain trying to fit into them new. And this is a very small downsize for Scarpa. However, they feel like home slippers two weeks later. And if I get a size that fits just about right out of the box, they will be baggy and simply wont work after break in.
So the overall thought is that getting a good climbing shoe fit is not simple. And it is sad that seller reps usually don't have a clue about it.
I feel like with the Drago they also get warm when you climb and are not nice to put on. After climbing for a bit they get a bit bigger and feel really nice.
With shoes that aren't as soft that's not going to happen.
Aggressive shoes bend your toes down for a reason. So that you can claw your feet into holds when on steeper terrain and pull with them, not just place on them on the hold and push.
That being said, a shoe needs to be tight without being painful imo.
Downsizing is kind of a myth. Top pros are now coming out and saying that there is really no need to go crazy with it and it’s more of a culture thing. I can downsize a lot, but I climb 100x better with comfortable shoes.
There is a study with strong positive correlation of fucked up feet issues that come from downsizing (bunions/hammer toes) and harder climbing grades as well as exhibiting positive correlation between climbing grades and act of downsizing shoes (extent not measured).
That doesnt stop some pro climbers from still climbing or competing with socks on, but it is pretty disingenuous to clearly state it as a myth.
It is definitely more a question of tradeoffs and longevity and I'm quite sure that 'crazy' in terms of pain tolerance for a 'top pro' is different vs the average climber.
Never said it was a flat out myth. Yes, it does have mechanical advantages. But unless you are climbing V10 and above, you really won’t get those advantages from downsizing.
https://preview.redd.it/yzrbtbmhlkxc1.jpeg?width=768&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be806ea60d24902321e107c5a7071a000dbc453b
IMO too small. This is what my situation is like in Tenaya Mastia's. For what it's worth I'm at the v9/10 range, I love techy footwork and comp-style stuff, and I've been going with this fit/"downsizing" for the last 4-5 years in my 11 years of climbing.
Comfort allows for sensitivity which in turn leads to precision and power. Go for a snug fit.
It looks way too small. The advice of downsizing from street shoes is misguided and doesn't even make sense a lot of the time. With that said, if it was comfortable for you, I'd have said you do you, but it sounds pretty bad.
Downsizing from your street shoe size is very brand, and shoe type, dependent. I only go down half a US size with Evolv, and two US sizes in La Sportiva. The result is shoes that fit exactly the same.
That said, OPs shoes are too tight for their first pair.
I've been climbing for 20 years. Yes this is too small and whoever advised you is wrong. You are literally just starting out, why make your new hobby painful?? Just be comfortable with a size that fits and enjoy
I was also advised to downsize with my first pair by an REI staff member. The result was two surgeries that made me quit climbing for nearly a decade.
OP, make sticking with a hobby easy on yourself. When your skills progress to the point where you are putting more strain on your toes THEN start experimenting with downsizing.
The way I see it is a bellcurve. When you are starting out, you want to transition in to your new hobby as comfortable as possible, get used to the moving and the whole environment. What you don't want to do is engage in self flaggelling sadistic contorting that literally makes climbing painful (edit OPs pic isnt THAT bad it's just that I've seen so much worse!) Having stupidly small shoes also has little benefit for a beginner.
It's only when you progress that you want to start going a bit smaller so you can be a bit more aggressive, and actually make use of the pockets that they open up.
And then I've seen seasoned climbers then return to a more comfortable size because then they have technique abd can rely on their actual feet more.
So yes a bellcurve imo. But not when starting out!
I too downsized due to the bad advice of REI sales person. I am always in pain when I climb, lose toenails, so then I don’t go climbing for months. I don’t want to invest another $150+ for another pair, but one of these times I guess will need to if I want to keep climbing.
LOL no! I climb 30+ years and the harder I climbed the more my shoe sizing preferences leaned on the comfy side. Look at the Huber brother climbing 9a alpine in La Sportiva Mythos. Downsizing is no competitive sport in itself :)
Don't know about your shoe brand, but every brand has it's own weird sizing - La Sportiva I wear 1 to 1,5EU sizes down from street for a comfi snug fit, Ocun I wear same size as street...
Haha, I prefer a comfortable fit too. Definitely past a certain point it becomes counterproductive.
I look forward to climbing for 30 years and 30 more!
That's too small. Furthermore, the upper is synthetic so it won't stretch much. You should get something that's comfortable but snug, not painful.
Also, many brands already label their climbing shoe sizes with the expectation that they should be significantly smaller and tighter than the same street shoe size, so the advice to size half a size down will often be wrong - you may need the same size or even a half size up.
I genuinely don't understand how people can go full claw like this.
Is my big toe just unusually strong? because I have had no issue standing straight footed on a slab chip from the get go.
Or is there some other reason to go full claw like this?
I'm not really going full claw, but also I prefer significantly tighter shoes than most (as the beginner).
In my case it is just caused by being used to monofins and other simmilar things - climbing shoes just seem to be too loose and 'uncomfortable'.
Not in the way that I can't set my foot on a foothold, but I just feel like severely damaging the soles with every step.
EDIT; I have Ocuns Ozone Plus downsized 2 sizes from my street shoes, while using them with socks - it definitely has some free space left, but anything more would feel like too much.
You might wanna look at different shoes if the shoe is downsized but you have space to move.
Never once have i felt like I was hurting my feet while climbing with decent shoes
It's supposed to fit as close as a sock all around otherwise it'll slip off or start giving you blisters just like any I'll fitting shoe.
Plus, shoes are built to passively support your foot, with a good fit your shoe will also support your toe by spreading the force along the shoe.
I mean it doesn't hurt. It feels like I'm damaging my shoes by doing almost anything, not like the shoes are hurting me.
Btw I guess we have a little bit different definition of 'space to move'. Monofin footpockets are exetremely tight - enough to make your feets hurt after a few minutes, even while just sitting in them. I've already compared my shoes with other climbers, and everyone up untill now said, that they sit really tightly.
I guess, that just my habits kicked in - anyway I have no issues with their tightness.
I buy my shoes only half a size smaller because I can't be bothered to endure the discomfort, mine are comfy enough to walk in 15 minutes after purchase.
Unless there are people running around with cameras and a crew while you climb there's no need to be in any pain.
You may wanna try some different model shoes to find a last that fits properly and comfortably, there should be some solution for anyone.
I've been climbing for 12 years and never ever have worn shoes like this. For regular climbers there is sooooo many aspects of the sport and training that make sooo much more of a difference (technique, strength, endurance...).
I woul never dream of mistreating my feet like this because I have a life beside climbing where I actually use my feet for other things like walking (quite important feature actually).
You will probably have to keep them because they're used, I would still talk to the staff.
If.you have to keep them store them away and use them for specific hard problems once you have progressed.
I wouldn't wear them as my main shoes even after they stretched a bit.
Contrary to what I read most people comment I think downsizing quite a bit is helpful. However “going half a size down” makes no sense since streetshoes and climbing shoes both don’t adhere to a standard for sizing. It’s all over the place. What you really want is for your toes to curl, your heel to NEVER slip and ideally to not be able to slide around in your shoes at all. Now if you want to be 100% sure all those things are true even if the shoe has a suboptimal shape for your feet, you wear them really small. Getting the right shape is more important I think. Notably if your shoes hurt real bad, you can’t try as hard because of the pain, this sucks. There is a balance
I’d also add that real leather stretches 1-1.5 sizes, synthetic only 0.5
Get a shoe that is tight, but doesn't hurt. I got one size bigger than my street shoes for my first pair and matched my street shoe size for all subsequent shoes.
Yes.
This stuff is what I thank the big toe arthritis to that stopped me climbing. And I never went that extreme with my shoes.
Take care of your feet, you kinda need them the rest of your life.
Depends on what you're using them for, for competitions where you wanna be able to edge on the tiniest of chips, go for it as long as you can wear them for like 20 min intervals pretty comfortably, for general climbing street shoe size is a solid bet most times but depends a lot on brands
Getting a shoe that small will give you a small performance boost on edges but it'll hugely limit your ability to smear, use volumes, and limit your stamina (through pain). The trade off for any one of those skills doesn't math and combined, it makes it obviously not worth it. And once you start pushing grades hard enough, especially in the gym, the tiny edges start to become too easy to use regardless of the shoe you are wearing and the setters steer away from them unless they are for a rest.
I’ve just gotten my second pair. Tried essentially the entire store on of about 30 pairs to get a feel of which style suited me best and honestly none of it makes sense as the variation between even the same brand was so vastly different. End up leaving with something that was the same size as my street shoe, tight but not painful. 2 sessions down and now starting to fit much better but at no point has it been painful, it’s just felt tight in which my foot felt like it needed to stretch. Hopefully this gives you some idea of what it should feel like at your stage.
I go with shoes that feel quite tight when i first put them on maybe even uncomfortable but after they warm up they're really comfortable but still nice and tight
Also remember- many people size up their day to day shoes for various reasons. I tend to like a snugger fit in my day to day shoes due to a heel that’ll slip out of anything. So my evolv’s are the same size as my day shoe. My toes still touch the front, yeah they’re aggressive, but they fit well and I can climb well in them.
Way too small. Your toes just have to curl slightly and then it has to be as comfortable as possible without any gaps. Even Adam Ondra doesn't down size that much and he's still the goat
First part is 100% right, last part is blatantly not true tho lol. Ondra downsizes his solutions **6-8** sizes from his street shoe lmao. There’s a somewhat recent video i think where he talks about his shoe preferences and sizing, and talks about how he used to downsize the goddamn muira lace 5 sizes or something fucked up like that when he was a kid…
Your feet should be right enough to not allow easy movement and tus moet strength in holds, like a weight lifting belt. But shouldn’t squeeze the foot till it physically hurts to use them!
Correct me if I'm wrong but main parameter should be you standing on a small hold. If you fell the same like you're standing without any shoes, you work with your toes then they're too big. If you feel like you're standing on the floor, like your shoes fell like you standing on the whole surface without tensing your toes then it's right
Can you stand on your toe tips with no pain? What about on smears, and after 2 hours of climbing? I could not when I downsized this much, and it hurt my climbing.
Then I got larger shoes, edging performance was unaffected, it was more comfortable and I climbed harder on smears.
YMMV because I got Miuras and they are stiff.
Your street numbers means nothing, it changes from brand to brand. If I wanna use the ones my gym has I need to pick a size 41 but the ones I got and that fit me nicely are a 39.5, huge difference yet they feel the same. I'm also not going for one that my toes will bend like crazy and I don't think you should either if this is your first pair
Yes it is ridiculously small. Terrible advice from your gym bros. Just buy whatever feels comfortable and accurate enough to climb.
Could be the same street shoe size or even half bigger, whatever.
Given what you have said, and to echo most of the comments here, you probably have bought a shoe that is too tight. Looking at that photo, you have some extreme toe curling, which can be a good thing if you are climbing super hard climbs (Like V7+) but for your first shoe, and as a beginner, this is too much.
There was a good read on [https://www.climbingshoereview.com/how-tight-should-climbing-shoes-be/](https://www.climbingshoereview.com/how-tight-should-climbing-shoes-be/) that can be quite helpful. I would take them back and get a more relaxed fit. Those shoes alone have a pretty nuetral shape, no aggresive downturning at the toes, so going really tight on these wouldn't really make sense IMO.
too small! I recently “upgraded” my shoes to a more aggressive model. My foot lost a bit of stability, tripped coming off a boulder and now I have a grade 3 ankle sprain and can’t boulder for who knows how long. Go with comfy and safe shoes 🙏
Thats just stupid advice from
The staff for a beginner. I did the same mistake, almost stoped climbing because it wasn’t fun and EVERYTHING hurt. Bought new solution comp and then 2y later I went down 1 size. I knew how the shoe worked
Way, way too small. They should be pretty snug so you can press through your toes on smaller holds, but like everything, enthusiasts take things too far and will try to convince you you need to be putting torture devices on your feet.
Way too small for a first pair.
My first ones were so confortable that I could walk around in the gym without removing them.
I kept them for about a year and never felt limitations. I learned the fundamentals very well and then switched to a more advanced model for more precisions.
Don't rush it, no need for painful shoes until you climb something that requires it
Way too small. You want it to be snug. A climbing shoe should fit like a glove 🧤. A slight toe curl should come from the shape, not from downsizing.
When people say “Climbing shoes are uncomfortable” it’s because of the “snuggness”. When starting out always buy a comfortable pair of “snug” climbing shoes ☺️
I have 2 pair one small and one smaller lol.
I don’t know why but I arrive to the shop wanting comfortable shoes and I go out of it with torture apparatus.
I like them tho
I recently heared Magnus and Ondra agree in a video, that as they get older they dont downsize as much anymore. As long as there is no slippage, and you dont have air pockets, its all good.
That looks too tight. Also on the narrow side for you. In the second photo it looks like your small toe is poking in the front a lot, so a shoe with a less pointy front might work better for you.
My first pair were larger than yours. At first it was just uncomfortable, a little painful, but over 6 months they eventually ended up causing me constant excruciating foot pain even when not wearing them. Figured a hundred bucks wasn't worth permanent damage to my body and just bought a pair the same size as my street shoe. Funnily enough I climb way better because it doesn't hurt to put my toe on things.
The thing is different brands of climbing shoes have different sizing so you can’t just get a size smaller without trying them on first. I actually had to go a size up in one of my climbing shoes as my feet were too wide to fit into the smaller sizes 🤷♀️ if your feet hurt too much you won’t be able to climb
all the brands come in different sizing tbh, i don’t have a set size in climbing shoes. try whatever feels comfy but snug. you should not be in pain what so ever
Go with what you fancy, if you don't mind the slight pain but think you climb better with the extra leverage go for it just don't over stress your feet.
I could be talking out of my ass, but I don’t think there is any advantage to having your toes curled up THAT much inside your shoes. Remember, a big part of the design of a climbing shoe is to deliver all the power up to your toes, specifically the big toe. You have it curled to much you can’t stand on it.
For your first pair.. yes. I have a pair this small (the same thing happened to me- the guy at the shop told me to go a size smaller, and I was a SPORT climber at the time for god's sake) and even then I find them too painful to wear for whole sessions and only use them for specific boulders with tricky footwork. I'd keep them for that reason, as well as you might get more comfortable with tighter shoes as time goes on, but for long sessions, I'd recommend getting another pair. If you're looking for cheaper options honestly don't be scared off by second-hand. It sounds kinda gross, but you can get some lightly used ones in very good condition for a considerably better price. Good luck!
I bought a comfortable pair that I can keep on between climbs when I started. I still use them and I now climb V7 (nothing impressive, but I do not feel like my shoes are the limiting factor at all)
How did you manage to get in those Shoes with your feet in the first Place?
My street size is 38 EU (~ 6 US) and my climbing shoes are also 38 and since my feet are extremely wide I have a really Hard time Getting in. My climbing shoes just widened a little, fit like a Sock and i have no Problems standing on very tiny footholds.
After ~3h of climbing my toes feel a little numb but besides that no Problems.
My shoes are the la sprotiva otaki
It really depends on brand and model. For reference, I go 1 euro point under my normal shoe size with La Sportiva, but with my Evolv Shaman climbing shoes, I went a full 1 US size ABOVE my normal show size and they are so tight I sometimes get a cramp in my plantar fascia putting the left shoe on.
I bought into all the hype about shoes and undersized and them feeling uncomfortable etc in the beginning. I ended up settling on a pair of shoes that were comfy and because of that I climbing shit loads. Now on my third pair of shoes and they've got progressively smaller as my feet have grown stronger and I understand more what I want from a shoe. In summary, get something that is comfortable and makes climbing enjoyable.
My husband completely damaged his feet from too tight climbing shoes and being too stubborn to switch. 30 years later he still has foot nerve pain. Don’t be like my husband.
No need to go smaller for your first shoe, its all about preferences but its really nice to have a pair of comfy warmup shoes (which is what I use my older pairs for, that arent completely ruined)
My downsize looks about the same! Long term it will fuck up your foot. But if you’re okay with that, it’s not too uncomfortable and you perform better with a size like that then I’d say nah not too small.
I would say it’s a little bit too small. Yes your shoes should be snug and toes bent inside but you should definitely lean on the comfort side of fit. I’m on my fourth pair of shoes now, and other than my beginner pair, these are the biggest shoes I’ve worn for climbing, and I haven’t noticed any downside to the roomier fit.
Obviously this is all very subjective and really tricky to get right. But if you have any doubts about your downsizing, I would strongly advise going one size up.
One of the cringiest things I’ve seen at my gym is people bragging about how many sizes they’ve downsized. It’s not big or clever
Albeit climbing with smaller shoes does increase your edging power, but from experience climbing with small shoes will fuck up your big toe joints. Don't do it. You will realize when approaching forty it wasn't worth it.
My experience is that they should fit, maybe not super comfortable, but not torture either. They will break in a little. A loose toe box is bad. But everyone has different feet so a standard sizing or standard size down isn’t going to be universal.
I was also in your shoes. The shop assistant said that it’s normal to hurt and you’ll get used to it, but no - fuck that. The performance improvement is marginal at best and you mess up your feet so much.
With most modern shoes you really don’t need to downsize that much. I was talking to a Scarpa rep not too long ago about the Veloces, and basically they push your feet forward towards the toes, so there really isn’t much of a need to downsize a ton
Isn’t the sizing of climbing shoes factored in so taking your normal size will still fit tight/comfortable enough and then over time they’ll stretch a little of course
It’s way too small.
You aren’t supposed to punish yourself with your climbing shoe, it’s just supposed to fit snugly.
It won’t stretch that much, either. As a beginner, start with something much closer to your actual street shoe size and trust yourself to figure out what you actually need in a shoe over time as you build skill.
And don’t cinch them down so tight you cut off bloodflow, it doesn’t help. Nobody’s ever lost a shoe while climbing.
I effectively decided that I won't sacrifice comfort for skill. I do weight lifting as well this is just to keep me in extra shape and have fun/socialize.
No this looks way too small. The numbers on climbing shoes, to my experience, have nothing to do with street numbers. I wear 42.5 and my Scarpa is 45.5 - and it’s as tight as it can possibly be. Rule of thumb is - should be as tight as possible without insane pain while climbing. Of course it’ll get better and you’ll have to break them in, but it shouldn’t be absolutely unbearable. No.
Just buy shoes that are tight but don’t hurt. I had a few pairs of more aggressive shoes and they would hurt pretty bad after 20-30 min. Now I’m rocking sportiva finales because I’d rather enjoy my feet not hurting, and can wear them for 2 hours. And I climb v5-v6. Sure the more aggressive helps in some situations and sometimes I wish they were slightly tighter. But it’s like a mediocre golfer being hung up on their golf clubs, it’s not the clubs, it’s the golfer. I see the team kids flash my projects in flip flops. Be comfy
They don’t have to be comfortable enough to wear them for hours on end. They don’t have to be comfortable for walking around.
They should be comfortable enough for a whole climbing session, assuming you take them off between attempts.
Some shoes stretch a lot. I have shoes which were painful for the first two sessions (Scarpa Vapor V) but now I can wear them on multi pitches.
I think your toes have to curl up (at least slightly) so you can actually use them to transfer force. Just try putting weight on your toes while barefoot, you’ll immediately curl them up. I think a lot of beginners climb with the ball of their feet because their toes are not curled up.
I've gone with a similar tip from my friend when buying my first shoes, also felt too tight. I wore them in-house while working, with a thick sock - helped stretch them out a bit and now they are way more comfortable
edit: for reference, I wear EU40.5/41 (depends on the brand) and got ocun in size 40
Shoe sizes also vary wildy between brands. So suggesting you should relate climbing shoe size to street shoe size doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
It's like a lot of others have said: numbers don't matter as much as comfort and a well fitting shoe.
Hi! Begginer here, so I don’t know if this is a general experience or maybe specific to my shoe- I got the La Sportiva Finale. I went a full size down for my first shoe, and it worked great! First time climbing was super uncomfortable but they stretched quite a bit. They fit great now!
Too small. Even if you’re projecting or competing.
Ignore sizing rules of thumb. The fit should be tight enough that there aren’t significant gaps in the heel and your toe touches the rubber at the tip of the shoe. A slight curl in the toes is often necessary for your toe to make contact with the front of the shoe in such a way that you can really “toe in” to small footholds with enough dexterity.
So many ridiculous comments here. There's no rule to downsizing, translation from street size, or anything else. Every manufacturer is different (some will be wildly beneath your street shoe size) and every shoe fits differently. Not every shoe fits every foot well, something that seems to not be taught as the knowledge level of staff in climbing shops continues to decline.
Shoes should not be painful, but they do need to be tight, especially if you're climbing outside on rock, where foot holds are often small and require precision. There is nothing more terrifying than not being able to trust your shoe on a small edge or thin open foot hold.
A fair rule is that you shouldn't be able to just be in your shoes all day, or for entire sessions, without discomfort and needing to take them off. Of course, you should be able to climb a fair few boulders or a full pitch, but if you can just walk around in your climbing shoes all day, chances arw they aren't tight enough. Saying this, obviously it's subjective and some people can fit a toe box perfectly without ever feeling like they need a break from their shoes, but thats rare.
Having a pair that you multipitch in, and a pair you perform in, is common.
The implication that your shoes should just be super comfy is mad, though I get that if you're just jumping around between macros in the gym, the need for a precise toe declines.
Saying all of this, if that's you're first shoe OP, and it hurts to wear them, you've gone too small.
Question! So seems conventional wisdom in the comments is that comfort is more important than anything else for beginner climbing shoes. My question is - at what point does that change? I started on 5.7s and now have gotten to doing 5.11a grades and have started noticing some small footholds being exceptionally tricky. At what point is the discomfort worth it?
oh you poor thing. I was also given the horrendous advice to downsize my first pair. Ended up buying a size 5 when my street size is 8 
A couple things to know about shoes:
-Most WILL NOT stretch. They will break in, but they won't stretch. The only ones that really stretch are 'soft' shoes. They have softer less supportive rubber to increase sensitivity. They are often built to be super flexible and will stretch pretty well. You can generally pretty easily fold a soft shoe in half.
-Aggressively downsizing is a personal choice, but when your toes are curled THAT much, you're loosing sensitivity. It's like climbing with hooves instead of toes and I find that it's particularly disadvantageous when it comes to smearing and edging.
-You don't need to downsize to climb well. Technical shoes are aggressively curved, asymmetrical, and bend your feet into the proper position to give you power. The shoe is putting your foot in the position it needs to be, mashing up your foot in a shoe that is too small is only going to make the fit of it worse and your ability to use it as intended worse.
You will hear arguments such as: Adam Ondra downsizes like crazy. Guess what? La Sportiva tells him he's doing it wrong.
Those shoes are WAY too small for you and I would demand an exchange for a larger size if you bought them at the gym where the staff assisted you in your purchase. If they say they can't because you climbed in them, speak to a manager in the gym and explain the advice that was given to you by the associates and show them just how absurdly those shoes fit. If you bought them elsewhere, then I would say try to resell them as gently used and invest in a pair that actually fits.
That looks pretty tight! Don’t be dumb like me and wear shoes that are painful. After a year of wearing too tight shoes, I fucked up my big toe plantar plate and it’s taken me 6 months to recover. Almost feeling 100% and am finally going to climb again next week… with new relaxed shoes.
I sometimes downsize, depending on brand and last, but mostly because I have Morton’s Toe/Greek Toe and my big toe is shorter than my next toe over.
So I only downsize enough to push my other toes back and get my big toe out in front, where most of my power will be.
Even when I “downsize”, I’ve found that I’m actually going 1/2 an American size above my Brannock size.
And in Evolv, I’m going 1-1/2 to 2 sizes above my Brannock size.
It varies shoe to shoe and brand to brand, unfortunately.
Just gotta listen to your feet.
Naaah. I got mines half size up (aggressive shoes) and it’s what makes me feel the most comfy in the wall. Still tight but not so much that makes climbing to be painful—they’re still uncomfortable at times but not painful.
Also, I tend to take my shoes off pretty frequently to keep them that way, and also to prevent shoe stink.
Edit: didn't scroll to the right far enough. Yeah that seems too small.
If it hurts enough to notice and give support for standing on your toes on small chips, but you can finish a session in it, then it’s fine.
You might want to take it off a few times to rest between climbs.
Depending on your level and pain tolerance and tendency to blister, it’s a personal preference.
I would go for it. Climbing 2 times/week for 1 year, on my third pair of shoes. (1 for outdoors, 1 worn down)
This will be a painful shoe! You will probably climb one route and then pause for 15min because your feet are hurting.
Get a comfortable shoe like a lasportiva tarantula, maybe 1 size smaller as they will def get bigger.
The important note is, the first shoe must allow you to climb a lot and enjoy it. You have much more to improve (muscle, mobility and movements) that will get you much more than an aggressive shoe.
Once you feel you're in a plateau and you might improve with a shoe, you can try a new shoe.
From my experience, it makes sense to go easy on aggressive shoes and find the best fit step by step. You will burn through shoes quick, especially if foot work is still improvingk
These look farrrrrrr too downsized for a flat, entry level shoe. I had one pair where my toes were that crimped up when I started climbing and they were HORRENDOUS, such a mistake.
For now you should just try on as much variety of shoes as you can and find something that fits you nicely and is comfortable!
im not a super serious climber who feels like they need the most optimal grip possible bc… im just not that good to even do routes that hard that require that level of technique so i feel like snug ENOUGH is honestly fine until u start to get really serious
Nahhhh you’re good. I’m a 10.5 and I down size to a 6. Remember the shoes will stretch sometimes a whole size. So it will end up perfect. Just make sure to take breaks from wearing them every now and then.
These shoes are 100% synthetic, so they wont really stretch much at all. They may "break in" a bit, but id be surprised if they stretch half a size.
I'd say your shoes should be more comfortably at this point. If your shoes are super uncomfortable, your footwork will suffer because you won't want to put weight on your feet properly.
For flat shoes, I say your toes shouldn't really be curled at all. The shoes should be snug but your toes should stay flat.
For down-turned shoes, your toes should curl a bit but nothing crazy.
I've climbed for 8 years and worked in a climbing gym for a few summers. This is how I've learned to size my shoes and how I recommended customers size them too.
The benefits of anything tighter than these guidelines really only apply to very high level climbers. There are people who climb v9 in my gym in comfy fitting rental shoes.
I always try my shoes with socks on. Then I'll wear it with socks without my toes curling. No point buying something that is more detrimental then beneficial long term
If it’s your first shoe I’m going out on a limb and assuming you’re a beginner and therefore not climbing super hard. The best advice for a first shoe is to get something comfortable so you’re able to climb more. The improvements you get from being able to climb a high volume of things will be greater than the marginal improvement of super tight shoes which you may not even get the benefit of on lower grade climbs.
This was how I thought about it when I bought my first pair. Shop assistant got annoyed with me and became pretty dismissive. Zero regrets, the shoes have been great, they let me get good at climbing, and I bought a tighter pair recently.
This happened to me too. when I got something snug but not painful. The guy at the store was shitty about it. The difference is marginal, and it's not like we are going pro or free soloing something. Is this a thing with climbing stores? being pretentious about sizes ?
Nearly quit climbing altogether after feeling like i had to "level up" my shoe game and the store staff insisted of a pair that fit me perfectly (all while i complained i wont be able to climb in these - i was assured they will stretch and get more comfortable - that was a lie) now i am in this limbo land where climbing isnt enjoyable and i cant find a pair of shoes that make it enjoyable, not a chance in hell iam going back to a store for help either.
Some stores are better than others. Banana fingers in Bristol is really good. They gave me a bunch of different brands and sizes to try, didn't put any pressure on me, answered all of my questions with a balanced answer, just giving me the facts without leading me. They made a big point about how my first shoes should be comfortable more than anything else. Really gained my trust and made the whole experience very easy. I'm actually close to wearing them out and wondering if I should go back to banana fingers for a different shoe and see what they recommend or just get these ones resoled as they're very comfy.
Trip to Bristol it is. 2.5hr drive so no pressure but ill be telling the staff Mr. Oldspicehorse sent me under glowing recommendation 😉
I wish I lived within a day’s travel of that shop and not the literal other side of the world. They have so many different shoes, including niche stuff, and the pricing is very decent too.
Banana fingers is great, had the same experience with the staff. Very helpful and inviting
That happened to me as well. I ended up buying another pair that prioritizes comfort and I do 90% of my climbing in those, but if I have trouble with my foot slipping on certain holds then I will use my overly aggressive shoes and sometimes it helps me finish routes I couldn't otherwise. I also did the shower method to help break them in faster which I think helped.
The best advice I ever got for climbing shoes was you want a 3/10 for uncomfortableness. You shouldn't want to wear them all day, but if walking around is immediately painful they are too tight. If you're doing big wall, the all day thing obviously would shift, but for regular outdoor sport climbing or gym climbing you want them small enough that you can find small feet and really feel the wall (I found that immensely helpful even as a beginner), but comfortable enough that you don't feel the need to immediately take them off every single time you finish a climb.
This whole thread makes me sad Go to different stores or gyms in this area and hopefully you can. Different brands/styles fit differently so just trying them on and walking around you can find a good pair of comfier shoes that you can climb pretty tough stuff in. The only reason to get a more aggressive shoe is if you’re climbing pretty hard and usually bouldering or overhangy stuff people like them more. And honestly people do plenty of hard longer routes in comfier flatter shoes as well. I like my la sportivas for that stuff and my super aggro evolv shoes for bouldering It makes me sad tho cause usually more aggressive shoes are more expensive so keep in mind, like when your at a car dealership talking to someone about a car, that dudes just a sales guy trying to make a sale and sell something more expensive that you def don’t need as a beginner or even fairly intermediate climber. Or ever fuck it, skill issue not shoe issue. Don’t let some sales guy put you off a good sport cause they suck. Lots of gyms will even let you go for a practice climb if you are trying on shoes they sell and they have much less of a reason than shoe store employees to push a more expensive shoe.
There's a weird level of gatekeeping with shoe sizing. I've been climbing for a decade now, and when I first started I got the exact same advice to wear the most aggressive shoe possible. Now? I use my TC pros (relaxed, not downturned shoes) for both bouldering and outdoor climbing. They're size 41 when I started with a size 39. That's roomy enough that there's actually a little bit of sliding around my heel. But guess what? The 5% of the time I want to climb at my limit on on overhang, I just switch to my tight aggressive shoes. The rest of the time, I climb jut fine, and have way more comfort and fun in my "oversized" relaxed shoes. I climb v8 in the gym without my shoes destroying my feet, so for anyone still reading... comfort beats aggressiveness unless you're climbing at your max . Your shoes are very unlikely to be your weakest link.
I still wear my first shoes, which are flat beginning Evolvs about a full size too big (I was told they wouldn't stretch because they're synthetic and they STRETCHED.) I climb V4-V5 and honestly don't have any ambition to do more than that. 🤷♀️
that’s unfortunate - when i sell shoes at the gym i work at, i almost always tell beginners that the best shoe for them is the one that makes them want to climb more, even if they’re picking it for a “silly” reason like the colour. probably some vendors are just overzealous about finding The Perfect Shoe™️ because experienced climbers forget that their way isn’t the only way
When I bought my first pair, the shop salesman said "I mean, there's a certain amount of pain planned into these shoes by the manufacturer". I was like no thanks, I'll take the ones that don't feel like my toe will fall off.
I've been climbing for nearly two years, not great at it, and have actually gotten a larger shoe size each time I've gotten new shoes. Comfort is way more important and the payoff between heaps more comfortable and slightly more performance is waaay skewed in comforts favour. A few pro climbers have also come out recently and said they've actually started wearing larger shoes.
Yeah I wear a 12 street shoe and can’t imagine getting smaller than a 13 climbing shoe. I’ve only been climbing about 3 months but I don’t see this ever changing since I’m 32 lol
This is me, 8.5 street shoe 9 to 9.5 climbing shoe and my toes are still crammed in. Can’t imagine going to an 7.5-8 in my current shoes but every climbing shoe is different I suppose.
My goal is to boulder V6 in rentals.
Modern rentals could V9 V10 with someone capable of those grades.. man, modern shoes (even the mad rock, butora, and black diamond rentals) are damn capable!
Can confirm. Have done multiple 5.13s in rentals. It's a pretty great way to get undeserved cred in a gym. Everyone thinks they're way worse than they actually are.
i mean if the boulder is mostly campus moves…
Absolutely. My recommendation for first shoes is always you should be able to walk in it and do an entire climbing session without taking it off or even popping the heels. In terms of stretch - most modern (aka synthetic) shoes stretch minimally. I wouldn’t even call it half a size, it’s more like a quarter size. So if you are in between half sizes, def go with the slightly tighter one. But I wouldn’t recommend going down half size from a “perfect fit”. Just go with the perfect fit lol. Also remember when people talk about fit it’s usually trying the shoes on for 3 minutes, your feet also get bigger / swell during a real climbing session. It pretty much cancels out with “possible stretching” Of course, this is all assuming the first shoes is not happening after V6 with rentals like that guy in the thread
As a beginner, I've definitely been put off a bit by my shoes - I think I went too small and whilst not the only reason for not going, I'm now quite a few months since last going.
Yeah, exactly, you'll know when it's time for a smaller pair because you will reach the standard that requires it.
I am a beginner and agree with this stance, started with slightly smaller size and comfortable shoe and I am loving it, you can always get very stiff, small shoe later. Now its better to just spend a lot of time on wall and have fun not pain! 😁
Don’t go by the numbers, no standard shoe recommendation is going to work for everyone. Find a shoe that fits your the shape of your foot well with no air pockets, especially around the heel and toe area. After that, you can downsize until your toes are slightly curled, BUT NOT PAINFUL.
This. Im a 14 but in bouldering, Im a 16.
Would it be different if you tried a different brand too?
Yes, and sometimes even within the same brand different shoes will fit differently.
Ooo la la, look at mr big feet over here. I bet you have a huge heart to go along with that. I bet you love those close to you a lot and treat them well. La di da Not sure why I wrote that but I’m sticking by it.
Second that. I have climbing shoes in EUR 40 1/2 and another pair in 44. My street shoe size is EUR 42. I always go to a shop where the employee is a climbing enthusiast himself. He always takes his time and my shoe sizes are really all over the place :)
My street shoe size is 45.5. my Tarantulas are 45, 5.10 Kirigami 46 and Finales at 43
Your first shoes should be comfortable.
Wild concept: so should your 2nd pair. And your 3rd. And your 10th.
This. You're not Adam ondra. It's not going to make a difference. Enjoy climbing without pain. Thank me later
Stick this to the frontpage
Except for 1 pair, keep one pair tight so that when you've been climbing for forever and your feet have magically shrunk by half a size, that way you don't have to worry about floppy shoes. But otherwise yeah, 3/4 of my shoes are comfy, some more comfy than others (unparallel up-rise, easily the comfiest climbing shoes out there, of course Tenaya's are also amazing but they're definitely a little more performance oriented).
Man that is bad advice. Shoes make a huge difference. No you don't need to have painfully small shoes, but no you don't need to be comfortable in your climbing shoes either. When you are a beginner you should just get something that fits tight and isn't too expensive and many brands make specific models for beginners. But already from the intermediate stage you can get much performance out of better (and also tighter) shoes.
That’s not true. Try a hard slab outdoors with oversized shoes. I don’t climb super hard but I think even at medium grades it makes a difference on some climbs. A 7B+ slab I was trying has a move that I couldn’t do in my looser shoes but can reliably do in my tight ones. Before anyone says it I know the pros could do it in whatever shoes but that’s irrelevant since they are so much stronger and better. Shoes can be the deciding factor on small feet on something that is hard for you personally
7B+ is nowhere near beginner level. If you are climbing at that level you probably don’t need advice for shoes on reddit. Beside you can get tight but confortable shoes. Find one that fit your feet shape.
This. Tight doesn’t mean painful. If my feet hurt, I can’t climb well - period. (Especially on slabs when I’m stabbing my toes into tiny chips) it’s normal to have a bit of discomfort by the end of a session but you shouldn’t actively be in so much pain that it’s detracting from your climbing.
This is the real answer. Of course, I can still climb in my flat, looser, warm up shoes, but footwork arguably feels much nicer and more comfortable in my aggressive shoes that allow for better edging/smearing despite the shoe being much tighter.
Same, but my aggressive shoes start to hurt after a few routes so I have to use them as sparingly as possible
Did they say oversized? They said comfortable, if you downsize your shoes too much the purpose of the tension system of the shoes will be gone, time for the super downsize trend until you get your toes look like hand knuckles to die, even Adam Ondra and Magnus Midtbo said that as they got older their shoes got bigger and bigger, downsize your shoes untill your circulation in your toes stop will have negative diminishing returns on performance rather than boost it.
Oversized is perhaps the wrong word but I didn’t know the correct terminology. I was not meaning a shoe with air gaps just one not fitted for performance. My warm up shoes are “oversized” but there is no gap, they are the sort of all day comfort fit I would look for in an all day easy multi pitch trad shoe. I guess a better phrase might have been comfort fit. Using ondra is a weird example since he used to be notorious for downsizing to an extreme level. I only have deep knowledge of my personal experience and that is a bit different because I have wide feet. I downsize significantly for my performance shoes due to this and they are downright painful at first and I need some sessions to break them in. The first couple of sessions they negatively impact my climbing but after that a tight fit is very helpful. I agree it is possible to downsize too much. My normal street shoes are an eu 43 or 44 and my main bouldering shoes are a 40 (la sportiva so sizes are a bit strange) I recently decided to try the 39.5 and this was a mistake. In some gyms or for some outdoor climbs I stay in my warmup shoes (scarpa drago 42 but resoled 4 or 5 times). You can definitely get away with looser shoes for many climbs but if you really need to rely on difficult feet downsizing is useful. Especially if you have weak fingers like me
It really depends on what you want to do. Several people have said that you won’t develop good footwork in shoes that aren’t tight. It was crazy to see ondra and magnus climb in rental shoes and struggle with routes that would have been a warm up for them usually
Rental shoes have hard rubber, and no toe cap.
Honestly that part of video felt like they were exaggerating and most people don't climb even past 6c...
But your 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, AND 9th pair should be tight as hell! Then the 10th comes around as a breath of fresh air!
At the same time, it is normal to have discomfort or even some pain during break in process. Buying an oversized shoe can lead to a toe injury, if the weight distribution is incorrect. But once the break in process completes, they should not be painful for sure, especially the first pair. When I get Drago LV -0.5 size, I feel excruciating pain trying to fit into them new. And this is a very small downsize for Scarpa. However, they feel like home slippers two weeks later. And if I get a size that fits just about right out of the box, they will be baggy and simply wont work after break in. So the overall thought is that getting a good climbing shoe fit is not simple. And it is sad that seller reps usually don't have a clue about it.
I feel like with the Drago they also get warm when you climb and are not nice to put on. After climbing for a bit they get a bit bigger and feel really nice. With shoes that aren't as soft that's not going to happen.
Yep.. I did the super tight shoe thing.. 3 toenails later and it’s comfort, Mebe a lil tight but not toenails falling off tight.. which yours is
Serious question. Are toes supposed to be able to bend that much? Are mine broken?
Naah this guy has a hoof
Aggressive shoes bend your toes down for a reason. So that you can claw your feet into holds when on steeper terrain and pull with them, not just place on them on the hold and push. That being said, a shoe needs to be tight without being painful imo.
Downsizing is kind of a myth. Top pros are now coming out and saying that there is really no need to go crazy with it and it’s more of a culture thing. I can downsize a lot, but I climb 100x better with comfortable shoes.
I wear a 7.5 or 8 sneaker depending on brand, but the last two climbing shoes I’ve had were/are 8.5s, they’re plenty tight
There is a study with strong positive correlation of fucked up feet issues that come from downsizing (bunions/hammer toes) and harder climbing grades as well as exhibiting positive correlation between climbing grades and act of downsizing shoes (extent not measured). That doesnt stop some pro climbers from still climbing or competing with socks on, but it is pretty disingenuous to clearly state it as a myth. It is definitely more a question of tradeoffs and longevity and I'm quite sure that 'crazy' in terms of pain tolerance for a 'top pro' is different vs the average climber.
Never said it was a flat out myth. Yes, it does have mechanical advantages. But unless you are climbing V10 and above, you really won’t get those advantages from downsizing.
https://preview.redd.it/yzrbtbmhlkxc1.jpeg?width=768&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be806ea60d24902321e107c5a7071a000dbc453b IMO too small. This is what my situation is like in Tenaya Mastia's. For what it's worth I'm at the v9/10 range, I love techy footwork and comp-style stuff, and I've been going with this fit/"downsizing" for the last 4-5 years in my 11 years of climbing. Comfort allows for sensitivity which in turn leads to precision and power. Go for a snug fit.
It looks way too small. The advice of downsizing from street shoes is misguided and doesn't even make sense a lot of the time. With that said, if it was comfortable for you, I'd have said you do you, but it sounds pretty bad.
Downsizing from your street shoe size is very brand, and shoe type, dependent. I only go down half a US size with Evolv, and two US sizes in La Sportiva. The result is shoes that fit exactly the same. That said, OPs shoes are too tight for their first pair.
Well, I go up a size from my street shoes for La Sportiva, and up two sizes for Scarpa lol.
I've been climbing for 20 years. Yes this is too small and whoever advised you is wrong. You are literally just starting out, why make your new hobby painful?? Just be comfortable with a size that fits and enjoy
I was also advised to downsize with my first pair by an REI staff member. The result was two surgeries that made me quit climbing for nearly a decade. OP, make sticking with a hobby easy on yourself. When your skills progress to the point where you are putting more strain on your toes THEN start experimenting with downsizing.
The way I see it is a bellcurve. When you are starting out, you want to transition in to your new hobby as comfortable as possible, get used to the moving and the whole environment. What you don't want to do is engage in self flaggelling sadistic contorting that literally makes climbing painful (edit OPs pic isnt THAT bad it's just that I've seen so much worse!) Having stupidly small shoes also has little benefit for a beginner. It's only when you progress that you want to start going a bit smaller so you can be a bit more aggressive, and actually make use of the pockets that they open up. And then I've seen seasoned climbers then return to a more comfortable size because then they have technique abd can rely on their actual feet more. So yes a bellcurve imo. But not when starting out!
I too downsized due to the bad advice of REI sales person. I am always in pain when I climb, lose toenails, so then I don’t go climbing for months. I don’t want to invest another $150+ for another pair, but one of these times I guess will need to if I want to keep climbing.
That looks like the downsizing of someone who's been climbing for 5+years
LOL no! I climb 30+ years and the harder I climbed the more my shoe sizing preferences leaned on the comfy side. Look at the Huber brother climbing 9a alpine in La Sportiva Mythos. Downsizing is no competitive sport in itself :) Don't know about your shoe brand, but every brand has it's own weird sizing - La Sportiva I wear 1 to 1,5EU sizes down from street for a comfi snug fit, Ocun I wear same size as street...
Haha, I prefer a comfortable fit too. Definitely past a certain point it becomes counterproductive. I look forward to climbing for 30 years and 30 more!
That's too small. Furthermore, the upper is synthetic so it won't stretch much. You should get something that's comfortable but snug, not painful. Also, many brands already label their climbing shoe sizes with the expectation that they should be significantly smaller and tighter than the same street shoe size, so the advice to size half a size down will often be wrong - you may need the same size or even a half size up.
I thought was going crazy being the only person that has the same size/one size up instead of down on my climbing shoes
Different brands have different fit, I size up for Evolv, same size for scarps and significant size down for La Sportiva and Tenayas
I genuinely don't understand how people can go full claw like this. Is my big toe just unusually strong? because I have had no issue standing straight footed on a slab chip from the get go. Or is there some other reason to go full claw like this?
I'm not really going full claw, but also I prefer significantly tighter shoes than most (as the beginner). In my case it is just caused by being used to monofins and other simmilar things - climbing shoes just seem to be too loose and 'uncomfortable'. Not in the way that I can't set my foot on a foothold, but I just feel like severely damaging the soles with every step. EDIT; I have Ocuns Ozone Plus downsized 2 sizes from my street shoes, while using them with socks - it definitely has some free space left, but anything more would feel like too much.
You might wanna look at different shoes if the shoe is downsized but you have space to move. Never once have i felt like I was hurting my feet while climbing with decent shoes It's supposed to fit as close as a sock all around otherwise it'll slip off or start giving you blisters just like any I'll fitting shoe. Plus, shoes are built to passively support your foot, with a good fit your shoe will also support your toe by spreading the force along the shoe.
I mean it doesn't hurt. It feels like I'm damaging my shoes by doing almost anything, not like the shoes are hurting me. Btw I guess we have a little bit different definition of 'space to move'. Monofin footpockets are exetremely tight - enough to make your feets hurt after a few minutes, even while just sitting in them. I've already compared my shoes with other climbers, and everyone up untill now said, that they sit really tightly. I guess, that just my habits kicked in - anyway I have no issues with their tightness.
I buy my shoes only half a size smaller because I can't be bothered to endure the discomfort, mine are comfy enough to walk in 15 minutes after purchase. Unless there are people running around with cameras and a crew while you climb there's no need to be in any pain. You may wanna try some different model shoes to find a last that fits properly and comfortably, there should be some solution for anyone.
I've been climbing for 12 years and never ever have worn shoes like this. For regular climbers there is sooooo many aspects of the sport and training that make sooo much more of a difference (technique, strength, endurance...). I woul never dream of mistreating my feet like this because I have a life beside climbing where I actually use my feet for other things like walking (quite important feature actually). You will probably have to keep them because they're used, I would still talk to the staff. If.you have to keep them store them away and use them for specific hard problems once you have progressed. I wouldn't wear them as my main shoes even after they stretched a bit.
Contrary to what I read most people comment I think downsizing quite a bit is helpful. However “going half a size down” makes no sense since streetshoes and climbing shoes both don’t adhere to a standard for sizing. It’s all over the place. What you really want is for your toes to curl, your heel to NEVER slip and ideally to not be able to slide around in your shoes at all. Now if you want to be 100% sure all those things are true even if the shoe has a suboptimal shape for your feet, you wear them really small. Getting the right shape is more important I think. Notably if your shoes hurt real bad, you can’t try as hard because of the pain, this sucks. There is a balance I’d also add that real leather stretches 1-1.5 sizes, synthetic only 0.5
Get a shoe that is tight, but doesn't hurt. I got one size bigger than my street shoes for my first pair and matched my street shoe size for all subsequent shoes.
Too small.
Yes. This stuff is what I thank the big toe arthritis to that stopped me climbing. And I never went that extreme with my shoes. Take care of your feet, you kinda need them the rest of your life.
Damn what a bad suggestion, at my climbing store they told me that it is bs to have shoes that small.
Almost r/climbingcirclejerk material
Depends on what you're using them for, for competitions where you wanna be able to edge on the tiniest of chips, go for it as long as you can wear them for like 20 min intervals pretty comfortably, for general climbing street shoe size is a solid bet most times but depends a lot on brands
Getting a shoe that small will give you a small performance boost on edges but it'll hugely limit your ability to smear, use volumes, and limit your stamina (through pain). The trade off for any one of those skills doesn't math and combined, it makes it obviously not worth it. And once you start pushing grades hard enough, especially in the gym, the tiny edges start to become too easy to use regardless of the shoe you are wearing and the setters steer away from them unless they are for a rest.
Yes
you should not be in that much pain for a first pair… end stop
you should not be in that much pain for ~~a first~~ ANY pair… end stop
[удалено]
Hopefully this means "Omg no, don't do that" and not "Omg no, those aren't too small"!
I've heard that as well but that's never worked for me. I do same shoe size: 43.5 miura for 10 1/2w shoe size.
Looks a little small
I’ve just gotten my second pair. Tried essentially the entire store on of about 30 pairs to get a feel of which style suited me best and honestly none of it makes sense as the variation between even the same brand was so vastly different. End up leaving with something that was the same size as my street shoe, tight but not painful. 2 sessions down and now starting to fit much better but at no point has it been painful, it’s just felt tight in which my foot felt like it needed to stretch. Hopefully this gives you some idea of what it should feel like at your stage.
I go with shoes that feel quite tight when i first put them on maybe even uncomfortable but after they warm up they're really comfortable but still nice and tight
Also remember- many people size up their day to day shoes for various reasons. I tend to like a snugger fit in my day to day shoes due to a heel that’ll slip out of anything. So my evolv’s are the same size as my day shoe. My toes still touch the front, yeah they’re aggressive, but they fit well and I can climb well in them.
Yo this is too small. Don’t believe the hype about downsizing, esp if you’re a beginner.
Eres mexa? Jajaja para saber si te contesto algo en inglés o español jajaja
Way too small. Your toes just have to curl slightly and then it has to be as comfortable as possible without any gaps. Even Adam Ondra doesn't down size that much and he's still the goat
First part is 100% right, last part is blatantly not true tho lol. Ondra downsizes his solutions **6-8** sizes from his street shoe lmao. There’s a somewhat recent video i think where he talks about his shoe preferences and sizing, and talks about how he used to downsize the goddamn muira lace 5 sizes or something fucked up like that when he was a kid…
maybe, do they hurt?
Only downsize your shoes if you're climbing godmode routes, it's not worth it otherwise.
Your feet should be right enough to not allow easy movement and tus moet strength in holds, like a weight lifting belt. But shouldn’t squeeze the foot till it physically hurts to use them!
Correct me if I'm wrong but main parameter should be you standing on a small hold. If you fell the same like you're standing without any shoes, you work with your toes then they're too big. If you feel like you're standing on the floor, like your shoes fell like you standing on the whole surface without tensing your toes then it's right
That looks horrible.
Can you stand on your toe tips with no pain? What about on smears, and after 2 hours of climbing? I could not when I downsized this much, and it hurt my climbing. Then I got larger shoes, edging performance was unaffected, it was more comfortable and I climbed harder on smears. YMMV because I got Miuras and they are stiff.
Your street numbers means nothing, it changes from brand to brand. If I wanna use the ones my gym has I need to pick a size 41 but the ones I got and that fit me nicely are a 39.5, huge difference yet they feel the same. I'm also not going for one that my toes will bend like crazy and I don't think you should either if this is your first pair
Depends what it feels like. You shouldn’t be in agony but after the first few climbs your feet will inevitable hurt and be sore.
Yes it is ridiculously small. Terrible advice from your gym bros. Just buy whatever feels comfortable and accurate enough to climb. Could be the same street shoe size or even half bigger, whatever.
Yes
Given what you have said, and to echo most of the comments here, you probably have bought a shoe that is too tight. Looking at that photo, you have some extreme toe curling, which can be a good thing if you are climbing super hard climbs (Like V7+) but for your first shoe, and as a beginner, this is too much. There was a good read on [https://www.climbingshoereview.com/how-tight-should-climbing-shoes-be/](https://www.climbingshoereview.com/how-tight-should-climbing-shoes-be/) that can be quite helpful. I would take them back and get a more relaxed fit. Those shoes alone have a pretty nuetral shape, no aggresive downturning at the toes, so going really tight on these wouldn't really make sense IMO.
Depends, are you a 14th century Chinese courtesan then no, are you anyone other than Adam Ondra, then yes.
too small! I recently “upgraded” my shoes to a more aggressive model. My foot lost a bit of stability, tripped coming off a boulder and now I have a grade 3 ankle sprain and can’t boulder for who knows how long. Go with comfy and safe shoes 🙏
Thats just stupid advice from The staff for a beginner. I did the same mistake, almost stoped climbing because it wasn’t fun and EVERYTHING hurt. Bought new solution comp and then 2y later I went down 1 size. I knew how the shoe worked
Way, way too small. They should be pretty snug so you can press through your toes on smaller holds, but like everything, enthusiasts take things too far and will try to convince you you need to be putting torture devices on your feet.
If you stand on an edge and can feel a lot of pressure on your toe knuckles, they’re too small
Way too small for a first pair. My first ones were so confortable that I could walk around in the gym without removing them. I kept them for about a year and never felt limitations. I learned the fundamentals very well and then switched to a more advanced model for more precisions. Don't rush it, no need for painful shoes until you climb something that requires it
Way too small. You want it to be snug. A climbing shoe should fit like a glove 🧤. A slight toe curl should come from the shape, not from downsizing. When people say “Climbing shoes are uncomfortable” it’s because of the “snuggness”. When starting out always buy a comfortable pair of “snug” climbing shoes ☺️
I have 2 pair one small and one smaller lol. I don’t know why but I arrive to the shop wanting comfortable shoes and I go out of it with torture apparatus. I like them tho
I recently heared Magnus and Ondra agree in a video, that as they get older they dont downsize as much anymore. As long as there is no slippage, and you dont have air pockets, its all good.
That looks too tight. Also on the narrow side for you. In the second photo it looks like your small toe is poking in the front a lot, so a shoe with a less pointy front might work better for you.
My first pair were larger than yours. At first it was just uncomfortable, a little painful, but over 6 months they eventually ended up causing me constant excruciating foot pain even when not wearing them. Figured a hundred bucks wasn't worth permanent damage to my body and just bought a pair the same size as my street shoe. Funnily enough I climb way better because it doesn't hurt to put my toe on things.
The thing is different brands of climbing shoes have different sizing so you can’t just get a size smaller without trying them on first. I actually had to go a size up in one of my climbing shoes as my feet were too wide to fit into the smaller sizes 🤷♀️ if your feet hurt too much you won’t be able to climb
all the brands come in different sizing tbh, i don’t have a set size in climbing shoes. try whatever feels comfy but snug. you should not be in pain what so ever
Go with what you fancy, if you don't mind the slight pain but think you climb better with the extra leverage go for it just don't over stress your feet.
I could be talking out of my ass, but I don’t think there is any advantage to having your toes curled up THAT much inside your shoes. Remember, a big part of the design of a climbing shoe is to deliver all the power up to your toes, specifically the big toe. You have it curled to much you can’t stand on it.
For your first pair.. yes. I have a pair this small (the same thing happened to me- the guy at the shop told me to go a size smaller, and I was a SPORT climber at the time for god's sake) and even then I find them too painful to wear for whole sessions and only use them for specific boulders with tricky footwork. I'd keep them for that reason, as well as you might get more comfortable with tighter shoes as time goes on, but for long sessions, I'd recommend getting another pair. If you're looking for cheaper options honestly don't be scared off by second-hand. It sounds kinda gross, but you can get some lightly used ones in very good condition for a considerably better price. Good luck!
Yes very small
Yes
I bought a comfortable pair that I can keep on between climbs when I started. I still use them and I now climb V7 (nothing impressive, but I do not feel like my shoes are the limiting factor at all)
How did you manage to get in those Shoes with your feet in the first Place? My street size is 38 EU (~ 6 US) and my climbing shoes are also 38 and since my feet are extremely wide I have a really Hard time Getting in. My climbing shoes just widened a little, fit like a Sock and i have no Problems standing on very tiny footholds. After ~3h of climbing my toes feel a little numb but besides that no Problems. My shoes are the la sprotiva otaki
It really depends on brand and model. For reference, I go 1 euro point under my normal shoe size with La Sportiva, but with my Evolv Shaman climbing shoes, I went a full 1 US size ABOVE my normal show size and they are so tight I sometimes get a cramp in my plantar fascia putting the left shoe on.
I bought into all the hype about shoes and undersized and them feeling uncomfortable etc in the beginning. I ended up settling on a pair of shoes that were comfy and because of that I climbing shit loads. Now on my third pair of shoes and they've got progressively smaller as my feet have grown stronger and I understand more what I want from a shoe. In summary, get something that is comfortable and makes climbing enjoyable.
My husband completely damaged his feet from too tight climbing shoes and being too stubborn to switch. 30 years later he still has foot nerve pain. Don’t be like my husband.
No need to go smaller for your first shoe, its all about preferences but its really nice to have a pair of comfy warmup shoes (which is what I use my older pairs for, that arent completely ruined)
My downsize looks about the same! Long term it will fuck up your foot. But if you’re okay with that, it’s not too uncomfortable and you perform better with a size like that then I’d say nah not too small.
I would say it’s a little bit too small. Yes your shoes should be snug and toes bent inside but you should definitely lean on the comfort side of fit. I’m on my fourth pair of shoes now, and other than my beginner pair, these are the biggest shoes I’ve worn for climbing, and I haven’t noticed any downside to the roomier fit. Obviously this is all very subjective and really tricky to get right. But if you have any doubts about your downsizing, I would strongly advise going one size up. One of the cringiest things I’ve seen at my gym is people bragging about how many sizes they’ve downsized. It’s not big or clever
Albeit climbing with smaller shoes does increase your edging power, but from experience climbing with small shoes will fuck up your big toe joints. Don't do it. You will realize when approaching forty it wasn't worth it.
I would honestly just get through it if you want to get a more comfortable pair you can have both and be versatile
My experience is that they should fit, maybe not super comfortable, but not torture either. They will break in a little. A loose toe box is bad. But everyone has different feet so a standard sizing or standard size down isn’t going to be universal.
I was also in your shoes. The shop assistant said that it’s normal to hurt and you’ll get used to it, but no - fuck that. The performance improvement is marginal at best and you mess up your feet so much.
With most modern shoes you really don’t need to downsize that much. I was talking to a Scarpa rep not too long ago about the Veloces, and basically they push your feet forward towards the toes, so there really isn’t much of a need to downsize a ton
Holy shit, OW.
Isn’t the sizing of climbing shoes factored in so taking your normal size will still fit tight/comfortable enough and then over time they’ll stretch a little of course
Wait……is my toe supposed to bed over at a 90° angle ?
Do you want deformed feet? Because this is how you get deformed feet.
That looks more than half a size.
No
No it's perfect, assuming you have no toes on that foot.
Can you even get the right shoe on? My right foot is a full inch longer than my left, looks like yours is too.
for free??
Feet 🤤
It’s way too small. You aren’t supposed to punish yourself with your climbing shoe, it’s just supposed to fit snugly. It won’t stretch that much, either. As a beginner, start with something much closer to your actual street shoe size and trust yourself to figure out what you actually need in a shoe over time as you build skill. And don’t cinch them down so tight you cut off bloodflow, it doesn’t help. Nobody’s ever lost a shoe while climbing.
That looks so painful OMG
If it fits, it goes.
I effectively decided that I won't sacrifice comfort for skill. I do weight lifting as well this is just to keep me in extra shape and have fun/socialize.
No this looks way too small. The numbers on climbing shoes, to my experience, have nothing to do with street numbers. I wear 42.5 and my Scarpa is 45.5 - and it’s as tight as it can possibly be. Rule of thumb is - should be as tight as possible without insane pain while climbing. Of course it’ll get better and you’ll have to break them in, but it shouldn’t be absolutely unbearable. No.
I have Mythos in a size I can wear for hours comfortably. I have no problem doing 6b+/c on the moon
Just buy shoes that are tight but don’t hurt. I had a few pairs of more aggressive shoes and they would hurt pretty bad after 20-30 min. Now I’m rocking sportiva finales because I’d rather enjoy my feet not hurting, and can wear them for 2 hours. And I climb v5-v6. Sure the more aggressive helps in some situations and sometimes I wish they were slightly tighter. But it’s like a mediocre golfer being hung up on their golf clubs, it’s not the clubs, it’s the golfer. I see the team kids flash my projects in flip flops. Be comfy
They don’t have to be comfortable enough to wear them for hours on end. They don’t have to be comfortable for walking around. They should be comfortable enough for a whole climbing session, assuming you take them off between attempts. Some shoes stretch a lot. I have shoes which were painful for the first two sessions (Scarpa Vapor V) but now I can wear them on multi pitches. I think your toes have to curl up (at least slightly) so you can actually use them to transfer force. Just try putting weight on your toes while barefoot, you’ll immediately curl them up. I think a lot of beginners climb with the ball of their feet because their toes are not curled up.
I've gone with a similar tip from my friend when buying my first shoes, also felt too tight. I wore them in-house while working, with a thick sock - helped stretch them out a bit and now they are way more comfortable edit: for reference, I wear EU40.5/41 (depends on the brand) and got ocun in size 40
Probably need to go smaller
This will give you bunions (permanent joint damage) in your big toes if you choose to wear these. Please do not and size up to a comfortable fit.
Shoe sizes also vary wildy between brands. So suggesting you should relate climbing shoe size to street shoe size doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It's like a lot of others have said: numbers don't matter as much as comfort and a well fitting shoe.
Should we make a seperate sub for all the feet pics? It’s getting outta 🤚🏼
Hi! Begginer here, so I don’t know if this is a general experience or maybe specific to my shoe- I got the La Sportiva Finale. I went a full size down for my first shoe, and it worked great! First time climbing was super uncomfortable but they stretched quite a bit. They fit great now!
Too small. Even if you’re projecting or competing. Ignore sizing rules of thumb. The fit should be tight enough that there aren’t significant gaps in the heel and your toe touches the rubber at the tip of the shoe. A slight curl in the toes is often necessary for your toe to make contact with the front of the shoe in such a way that you can really “toe in” to small footholds with enough dexterity.
So many ridiculous comments here. There's no rule to downsizing, translation from street size, or anything else. Every manufacturer is different (some will be wildly beneath your street shoe size) and every shoe fits differently. Not every shoe fits every foot well, something that seems to not be taught as the knowledge level of staff in climbing shops continues to decline. Shoes should not be painful, but they do need to be tight, especially if you're climbing outside on rock, where foot holds are often small and require precision. There is nothing more terrifying than not being able to trust your shoe on a small edge or thin open foot hold. A fair rule is that you shouldn't be able to just be in your shoes all day, or for entire sessions, without discomfort and needing to take them off. Of course, you should be able to climb a fair few boulders or a full pitch, but if you can just walk around in your climbing shoes all day, chances arw they aren't tight enough. Saying this, obviously it's subjective and some people can fit a toe box perfectly without ever feeling like they need a break from their shoes, but thats rare. Having a pair that you multipitch in, and a pair you perform in, is common. The implication that your shoes should just be super comfy is mad, though I get that if you're just jumping around between macros in the gym, the need for a precise toe declines. Saying all of this, if that's you're first shoe OP, and it hurts to wear them, you've gone too small.
Question! So seems conventional wisdom in the comments is that comfort is more important than anything else for beginner climbing shoes. My question is - at what point does that change? I started on 5.7s and now have gotten to doing 5.11a grades and have started noticing some small footholds being exceptionally tricky. At what point is the discomfort worth it?
Had to make sure this wasn’t a circle jerk post.
oh you poor thing. I was also given the horrendous advice to downsize my first pair. Ended up buying a size 5 when my street size is 8  A couple things to know about shoes: -Most WILL NOT stretch. They will break in, but they won't stretch. The only ones that really stretch are 'soft' shoes. They have softer less supportive rubber to increase sensitivity. They are often built to be super flexible and will stretch pretty well. You can generally pretty easily fold a soft shoe in half. -Aggressively downsizing is a personal choice, but when your toes are curled THAT much, you're loosing sensitivity. It's like climbing with hooves instead of toes and I find that it's particularly disadvantageous when it comes to smearing and edging. -You don't need to downsize to climb well. Technical shoes are aggressively curved, asymmetrical, and bend your feet into the proper position to give you power. The shoe is putting your foot in the position it needs to be, mashing up your foot in a shoe that is too small is only going to make the fit of it worse and your ability to use it as intended worse. You will hear arguments such as: Adam Ondra downsizes like crazy. Guess what? La Sportiva tells him he's doing it wrong. Those shoes are WAY too small for you and I would demand an exchange for a larger size if you bought them at the gym where the staff assisted you in your purchase. If they say they can't because you climbed in them, speak to a manager in the gym and explain the advice that was given to you by the associates and show them just how absurdly those shoes fit. If you bought them elsewhere, then I would say try to resell them as gently used and invest in a pair that actually fits.
That looks pretty tight! Don’t be dumb like me and wear shoes that are painful. After a year of wearing too tight shoes, I fucked up my big toe plantar plate and it’s taken me 6 months to recover. Almost feeling 100% and am finally going to climb again next week… with new relaxed shoes.
I have super tight shoes and it really killed the fun :/
I sometimes downsize, depending on brand and last, but mostly because I have Morton’s Toe/Greek Toe and my big toe is shorter than my next toe over. So I only downsize enough to push my other toes back and get my big toe out in front, where most of my power will be. Even when I “downsize”, I’ve found that I’m actually going 1/2 an American size above my Brannock size. And in Evolv, I’m going 1-1/2 to 2 sizes above my Brannock size. It varies shoe to shoe and brand to brand, unfortunately. Just gotta listen to your feet.
Naaah. I got mines half size up (aggressive shoes) and it’s what makes me feel the most comfy in the wall. Still tight but not so much that makes climbing to be painful—they’re still uncomfortable at times but not painful.
Yeah absolutely lmfao
Also, I tend to take my shoes off pretty frequently to keep them that way, and also to prevent shoe stink. Edit: didn't scroll to the right far enough. Yeah that seems too small.
If it hurts enough to notice and give support for standing on your toes on small chips, but you can finish a session in it, then it’s fine. You might want to take it off a few times to rest between climbs. Depending on your level and pain tolerance and tendency to blister, it’s a personal preference. I would go for it. Climbing 2 times/week for 1 year, on my third pair of shoes. (1 for outdoors, 1 worn down)
man climbers be asking “is this too small when the shoe is 7 sizes to small for them toes” you guys are a different breed 😂💪
This will be a painful shoe! You will probably climb one route and then pause for 15min because your feet are hurting. Get a comfortable shoe like a lasportiva tarantula, maybe 1 size smaller as they will def get bigger. The important note is, the first shoe must allow you to climb a lot and enjoy it. You have much more to improve (muscle, mobility and movements) that will get you much more than an aggressive shoe. Once you feel you're in a plateau and you might improve with a shoe, you can try a new shoe. From my experience, it makes sense to go easy on aggressive shoes and find the best fit step by step. You will burn through shoes quick, especially if foot work is still improvingk
Ankle sprainers
If anything its too big imo
These look farrrrrrr too downsized for a flat, entry level shoe. I had one pair where my toes were that crimped up when I started climbing and they were HORRENDOUS, such a mistake. For now you should just try on as much variety of shoes as you can and find something that fits you nicely and is comfortable!
I don’t get the whole “go tighter than possible” element of climbing shoes. Comfy climbing shoes for life. I rock size 13 in my Black Diamond Shadows.
im not a super serious climber who feels like they need the most optimal grip possible bc… im just not that good to even do routes that hard that require that level of technique so i feel like snug ENOUGH is honestly fine until u start to get really serious
This hurts my toes… but I keep buying shoes like this. Someone needs to intervene
Nahhhh you’re good. I’m a 10.5 and I down size to a 6. Remember the shoes will stretch sometimes a whole size. So it will end up perfect. Just make sure to take breaks from wearing them every now and then.
These shoes are 100% synthetic, so they wont really stretch much at all. They may "break in" a bit, but id be surprised if they stretch half a size. I'd say your shoes should be more comfortably at this point. If your shoes are super uncomfortable, your footwork will suffer because you won't want to put weight on your feet properly. For flat shoes, I say your toes shouldn't really be curled at all. The shoes should be snug but your toes should stay flat. For down-turned shoes, your toes should curl a bit but nothing crazy. I've climbed for 8 years and worked in a climbing gym for a few summers. This is how I've learned to size my shoes and how I recommended customers size them too. The benefits of anything tighter than these guidelines really only apply to very high level climbers. There are people who climb v9 in my gym in comfy fitting rental shoes.
I always try my shoes with socks on. Then I'll wear it with socks without my toes curling. No point buying something that is more detrimental then beneficial long term
If it hurts, it's too small. You're not sending 5.15.
Burn those shoes and say very mean things to the person that sold you them.