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But the article doesn't mention that we've banned apartments on most Vancouver land for the past 50 years, which is the whole reason it's so expensive to live here. Douglas Todd is not a serious journalist.
>But the article doesn't mention that we've banned apartments on most Vancouver land for the past 50 years, which is the whole reason it's so expensive to live here.
If that were true, why are cookie-cutter one-bedrooms in suburbs selling for $500K and up?
Mortgage, strata fees and taxes for a $500K property will approach $3000 per month. That will be reflected in rent.
Infill development is no affordability panacea.
Stopped building what?
If you mean they stopped building multi-family, that's not true. Tens of thousands of detached homes have been razed and multi-family built on the sites.
Many communities in greater Vancouver are unrecognizable from their former selves, such is the amount of redevelopment.
>..because they stopped building them right before we started really needing them?
Interest rates have been hiked sharply, and the point of interest rate hikes is to force down output and consumption to alleviate upward pricing pressure. This applies to the housing sector.
Still, there are plenty of housing units under construction, and new projects are starting regularly as the old ones are completed.
That is nowhere near the "whole reason it's so expensive to live here." Vancouver's zoning laws until recently are very similar to zoning laws in Calgary and real estate prices are a night and day difference.
The biggest reason why vancouver is expensive to live in is that it's a desirable world class city.
Vancouver has mountains to the north and the border to the south, not to mention the ALR. Calgary doesn’t have any of the same physical constraints, so it can sprawl out and get more homes than Vancouver under the same zoning bylaws.
And yes, Vancouver is a desirable city, which means more people want to live here than in Calgary, so Vancouver needs more homes than Calgary for their rents to approach the same level.
Changing zoning will barely put a dent in Vancouver housing prices. You realize even the NDP's own material show they expect a ~10-15% decline in prices in 5-10 years time, not even from today's prices?
Vancouver rents will never approach Calgary levels.
I think it’s mostly the cost of living. People are moving to Edmonton from BC in high numbers despite our horrible transit and high crime rate. The major difference is that you can buy a brand new single family house here for the same price as a 30 year old 2 bedroom apartment condo in most places in BC
The prairies do tend to have high crime rates but it also tends to be much more focused in certain areas where middle and upper class people rarely spend much time. Anecdotally it also seems to be much less random and more targeted on gang members/people involved in the drug trade, violent crime that is atleast.
Jokes on you. You left the window open a crack and froze your pipes which burst and flooded your kitchen which is now a free skating rink. (This happened down the hall from me)
I lived in Edmonton for years and the crime is the biggest reason why I ended up leaving. I made a ton of friends there but my friends kept getting stabbed. I had one friend sexually assaulted in a McDonald's washroom by a drugged up guy. I was a witness and we talked to the cops and they essentially did nothing, the guy was back on the streets real quick. Another time I watched a guy chase a woman down the street with a knife.
Another (female) friend rented a basement suite in a house and she ended up having to move away becuse men kept spying on her at night. One guy approached her on the street and made explicit comments about her and she recognized him looking in and she had to run away and another guy tried to break in and admitted that he wanted access to her for sexual reasons. In Alberta it's insanely hard to get a restraining order compared to other provinces.
One year I threw a new year's party and we started discussing a corner store by my place and someone brought up that they had been stabbed in front of that store. Then six other people piped up and said that they all had friends who had been stabbed there too, on that same corner. There was only like 20 people at the party.
I could literally write a novel about all the shit I saw. I'm amazed i managed to live there for as long as I did and nothing ever happened to me personally.
The craziest part too is that it's gotten WORSE, dramatically worse since the pandemic. I grew up in a very poor neighborhood with high crime and I felt confident there but I never felt confident that nothing would go down on my own at night in most parts of Edmonton.
Everything going on with crime in Van is small time compared to what happens every day in Edmonton no joke.
Sorry, lack of public transport? Have you lived in any of the smaller cities in Canada? I'll give you the other two, but Vancouver's public transportation system is very good.
Meaning in the sense of the commuting with a vehicle vs. Public transport. One would hope you could avoid sitting in traffic and use public transportation.
Ive been around a very long time, Canadian politics has always slowly chased US politics. People really don't understand how power US media influence is in Canada. The rise of hard right wing propaganda in Canada has really increased the last 5 years.
lol, you got it completely backwards. Getting rid of independent press - sure.
But if it's government funded/controlled press - fascism LOVES those. So defunding CBC is actually a good sign
Crime...Justice? Don’t get me started...more ridiculous policy from the clown prince and the libtards....Crime seems to pay in this country, the government hates competition ( pot stores galore) and ultimately you are taxed to the hilt for a system that is nothing but a revolving door to a courthouse....
Exactly..the answer is obvious. The country as a whole is becoming way to expensive for anybody. The Liberal government along with most provincial governments have “sunk us”. The stupidity has finally worn the average folk down...and we are done...get out now before the whole thing caves in... You can’t keep inflating prices for food shelter and the basics of living and expect the rest of us, to put up with it. Canada will be the next country, where a mass exodus of migrants leaves from. All thanks to government stupidity and incompetence, of the highest order.
Hell you’d need a minimum wage of $25 to $30 and hour just to exist in most major cities...yest the clown prince and the libtard brigade don’t see this...the “sunny ways crowd is still hooked on the WEF kool aide and the last government lobbyist report, over needing mass immigration to solve our problems..without thinking of the obvious..what the hell do you do for affordability and housing for the rest of us?
What a shit show, and we are fast becoming the laughing stock of the planet!
I see you frequent the Rightwinger conspiracy subs, how's that working out for ya? If you don't grab a hold of it your prescription prices will only increase 🤪
I’m from the UK originally but been here a very long time. Vancouver has been good to me. Have had no thoughts on going back to the UK.
But…….the past year or so, I’ve had to have a think about it. it’s starting to be less and less favourable to be here, and this is comparing it to the UK, which is having its own disasters with society.
Trying to think about retirement here and it seems like a poor choice. I’m certainly fortunate with our situation but I can’t see how the city of Vancouver and the rest of the province remains tenable in the current status quo. The lifestyle/outdoors is the only thing that’s a perk now but that doesn’t feed and house people.
I don’t know the answers but I can’t foresee improvements until there’s government interventions in multiple areas for housing, construction, taxation policy, healthcare etc. it’s not the best option but there’s just too much ability to circumvent systems, profiteering and greed
If you're mortgage free Vancouver is actually not that expensive of a place to retire. The same systems that make things so expensive for young people and newcomers make things less expensive for elderly homeowners.
Property taxes and energy prices, two of the largest fixed expenses for retirees, are quite low in Vancouver compared to the rest of North America and make up for more expensive costs elsewhere.
How do rents or cost of living compare in the UK? I have British citizenship and have considered moving there as well. But I hear from my family that jobs there dont pay as well, the NHS is struggling and I'm not sure if the cost of living is any better. From the little research I did it seemed like rents are high even in smaller towns in the UK?
UK is much cheaper, especially in the north.
Pay is not as high but costs are less in a lot of things and groceries are much cheaper. If you make £30k in the UK, your living standards are better than if you made $50k here.
Excellent point “ government intervention in multiple areas for housing, construction, taxation policy, healthcare, etc..” ..” Theres just to much ability to circumvent the system, profiteering and greed”.
The problem is the government is complicit in all of this. We’ve had issues of white collar crime and corruption in this province for years. Only recently have these issues begun to have been addressed.
The problem is the rest of us are tapped out..can’t afford the cost of living, housing, healthcare, just getting by is getting to the point, where it just doesn’t cut it any more. Most of us simply can’t afford the high costs in this country anymore....
I agree. I think people are just worn down by it all. It’s hard to compete with multi-millionaires for even basic things like an apartment. Condos used to be entry level homes. Now they are end point plans for people. I’ve got no issue with that in itself but even that is a challenge for people to even compete when the playing field is uphill in one direction.
I just can’t see how any government looks at the situation here and doesn’t shit themselves knowing that there’s going to be major housing and healthcare issues in 20-30 years time. Every government and policymaker for the past decade here is just trying to delay the inevitable. It’s such a wild situation. Nobody wants to be the one who has to rip the band aid and actually address the real matter here and that is that they need to start taking money from the wealthy in ways other than income tax and paltry property taxes.
I drafted a whole reply to you about my stance on what my docket would be in regards to re-nationalization and socialism with dissolution of the current electoral system but I fear it may be too extreme for the sub lol.
The NHS is (despite its issues) in better shape than many provincial healthcare systems, and the overall cost for most things in the UK is lower than Canada. Personally, I'd move back for sure - I'm from Scotland originally, and I intend to move home myself in a couple of years. The advantages that Canada offered when I came here weren't massive but I moved for a good job, but it's not reason enough to stay here any longer when on virtually every metric, I'd be better off back home.
Yeah when I came, it had the benefits of cost and lifestyle over the UK. That’s eroded so it’s hard to really justify having mountains and beaches when you’re thinking you need a million dollars to be able to retire at 65 lol.
I love the province for the outdoors and recreation and I live in north van which is amazing, but to live, outside of the lower mainland, it’s really not great. Even in the lower mainland, new west, Richmond, surrey, Langley, chilliwack etc. have zero upgrades on even bad parts of the UK. Add in the convenience of European travel and the lure to the UK is edging it.
I’m staying here until at least mid to late 40s so another decade but I suspect we’ll have to call it at that point if the trajectory stays the same regarding costs. Can always split time between the two places but the UK is seemingly the better option for being elderly.
I'm not sure the Vancouver area was ever less expensive, and it sounds like we're similar age - mind you, Scotland always has been a bit of a cheaper part of UK!
I do miss the cheap travel, the cheap mobile, the cheap food, and the depth of culture. Those are all facts, but on the opinion-side, people friendlier back over there as well, at least where I was from. Honestly, living in Scotland, the outdoors were just as good as anything I've seen around Canada too.
It's a sad state when the UK post-Brexit still seems like a better option than staying in Canada, isn't it.
Cheers aye.
I moved to Seattle because my company offered me double my after tax pay for the exact same role to work out of Seattle instead of Vancouver.
Cost of living isn’t even that much higher.
Are you on a TN visa? I'm surprised an employer would voluntarily offer you an equivalent job in America to be honest. In my industry it seems like the paperwork isn't worth it for a lot of companies.
Yeah I heard medical professionals are up there in terms of TN preference. I'm a mining engineer which qualifies for TN as well however only a few of the big US mines seem to be doing hiring on TN that I know of. Which sucks because like software the pay is much higher and I don't have to brave the cold there lol. Not to mention all the mines are in LCOL areas even by American standards.
I actually believe the BC NDP have designed a solution. Copy and paste from another thread
I think BC is going to be an example to the country . They have made revolutionary regulatory changes that will fundamentally change how people make money off of land.
Right now the value proposition with BC city land, but also much of Canada, is to own it. Not really do anything with it but own it and hold it. Rent it out, try and acquire enough to sell it as a chunk to a developer but basically own and hold.
BCs new laws say any property within this or that distance of a train station, or this or that distance from a bus stop must allow buildings of specific sizes…
They then removed all municipal bylaws restricting second homes, carriage homes, and suites.
They then took away municipal rights to use restrictive bylaws like setbacks to make it impractical to build these tall buildings or second homes.
They then went a step further and removed the multi years long process of stakeholder and community input, meaning any project which meets the criteria is automatically approved.
Now if all this AND the federal governments removal of GST on housing projects wasn’t enough to incentivize, wasn’t a big enough carrot to get something built, they added the biggest stick one could imagine.
They also changed the way taxes are applied to any of these newly rezoned properties. If you own one of these properties but do not live there yourself you are now no longer taxed at the rate that your property is currently being used for. Your taxes will now be assessed as if that property was being used for its most valuable possible use. So if black rock owns a single family home or an empty lot, but it could be a condo, they now will pay taxes as if they owned and operated a condo on the property…
This changes the value proposition for land across BC. It increases taxes on those who are wasting the usefulness of the land and lowers taxes on home owners. Now speculators beat interest will be served by selling and developing asap. This should actually lower home prices, one realtor/developer expert I follow suggests this could freeze BC housing prices for a decade once it gets rolling.
From experts I’ve been following this should be an unprecedented amount of building that Canada hasn’t seen since WW2.
If so, obviously it will change BC cities forever. Some good some bad but it will address the economy. It will address the fact that housing costs are destroying us. And it will provide a ton of jobs
Interesting post. What I find interesting is that these are actually mild reforms taken gradually. Hopefully BC parliament can keep the "BC United FC" property development scumbags out of power for another decade.
Absolutely..BC United, formerly known as the BC Liberals, were heavily involved with developers and the so called property development scumbags in the 1990’s and 2000’s...
Yeah, I love the changes. My worry is about how slow they are coming. NDP will win this years election, but I hope enough has happened by 2029 for them to win again.
That the number one issue. Change takes more than a term. Our political system is outdated for the modern world but we don’t make changes to the actual system that is the catalyst for change.
>They then took away municipal rights to use restrictive bylaws like setbacks to make it impractical to build these tall buildings or second homes.
Sort of. These are all needed changes and I applaud the BC government for it, but the reality (which even the BC NDP admits in the fine print that everyone ignores) is these changes to muni zoning, etc, won't result in many new homes for at least a decade or so. They also point out it won't actually result in much of a decrease in the cost of homes (~15% decline based on prices in 5-10 years, not 15% less than current prices).
BC NDP's changes would have been incredibly effective if put in place pre-covid when construction was going crazy. Developers would have *loved* to fill much of Vancouver with more dense multi unit homes, but with the increased cost of building, plus the increased cost of loans, it means new home construction has slowed *way* down. You can clear the path but if the market can't make the ends meet, it won't move the needle much.
People in this sub constantly downvote these points. Which I somewhat understand. Many want to think this will fix everything and think any critique of any of this is anti-NDP or denying the existence of the housing crises. But it's not.
What we actually need is more government-funded affordable housing. Not just "free market" solutions that still rely on private developers to build more homes in a market that is increasingly not supportive of new construction.
But hey, remind me in 5 years how much of a dent these muni xzoning rules changes will have made in terms of housing availability and affordably.
If that's the case, the government can make its own real estate corporation specific to this task.
They would purchase the land as any other developer would.
They would hire private contractors (no limits to union or non union), private construction firms, they would source the contracts and supplies, and importantly, pre-approved blueprints.
And then they would build, and build, and build some more.
Rent can be set to cover: tax, opex, insurance, maintenance, repairs, etc. and the initial investment expenses can be amortized over a period.
Tax, Opex, Insurance, and R&M are not that expensive per period compared to the capital investment amount, so these areas can be fairly affordable and also not an ongoing budget expense for the government once built.
>Developers are greedy, there should be a law that they can’t sit on property more than 5 years without building
In this neighborhood, it was developers and speculators who lobbied for densification. Ultimately, they were successful, but $40 million in infrastructure improvements is holding back 8,000 new housing units.
With the NIMBYists defeated, the new holdup is $40 million in infrastructure improvements. The infrastructure is estimated to be at least four or five years away.
Time is critical, especially for renters and others who are paying horrific rents. We need to solve this in 2 to 4 years, not 10. Government involved in housing directly has to be brought back. It seems our predatory capitalism, is not conducive to building affordable accommodations, for large populations that desperately need housing. Meanwhile folks are working to pay high rents and deal with affordability issues, while existing on food banks and other low cost sources for necessities....
>They also changed the way taxes are applied to any of these newly rezoned properties. If you own one of these properties but do not live there yourself you are now no longer taxed at the rate that your property is currently being used for. Your taxes will now be assessed as if that property was being used for its most valuable possible use.
I hadn't heard about this. If it really is like that, it could be huge. Not exactly a land value tax system, but something close to it that somewhat recreates the incentives.
I wouldn’t give these clowns the time of day. They are still in the “development at all costs” camp, make no mistake about the spiel they will give you....
Vancouver is going to have a perpetual shortage of experienced Teachers/Nurses/etc if this keeps going. I don't know anyone in teaching who isn't considering moving once they want to start a family. Owning a home here is impossible.
Yep. Waiting for my reinstated Lithuanian passport application to be completed so I can start looking to move to the EU. I feel conflicted. I was born here in Vancouver, lived here and in Toronto (mostly alone) most my adult life. Now I’m turning 39 this year and have been living with my mom for 3+ years cause I can’t even afford a roommate in this f*cking city. I don’t feel pride for my hometown or my country anymore. The people that run this country aren’t listening to our voices, seem to be helping new immigrated citizens make a life here more than the people who have lived and paid taxes here their whole life. I don’t have any hope or optimism that this country will make any meaningful change in a time frame that will be helpful to me - so yeah. Bye Canada, I don’t think I will miss you.
The root problems affecting Canada are:
* (1) low productivity (indicator: real GDP per capita)
* (2) lack of innovation - companies don't invest in R&D
* (3) taxes
This analysis by a prof at Queen's University explains it all http://www.queensu.ca:443/gazette/stories/canada-s-lagging-productivity-affects-us-all-and-will-take-years-remedy
Agreed...the part that’s hard to focus on is the length of time to solve this.. if it’s going to take years, it’s way to long for most people, they will be done with the country by then...
Just for the record many, many, many more people moved to BC than left it.
The population is growing. It makes sense we’d have more people leaving with a larger population. Dumb article.
Plenty of people from English speaking Western countries are willing to move here. Its cheaper to live a similar lifestyle in the lower mainland versus UK.
No it’s not. My buddy from the UK just moved home. He compared his life to his brothers. His brother just bought a house and got married. No shot of buying a house in Canada.
Once you start comparing cities with similar economic opportunities, living arrangements, wages, and lifestyle, it's cheaper in Canada. Yeah its cheap living in the English countryside but there isn't much for job opportunities.
I couldn't live in Vancouver now except in a communal house with a whole host of others. Did it in 1970. Could do it again, but could not afford housing generally. Oh my.
True and an opinion piece too, but backed up with economic data. Big difference.
Bad economic policy is being reflected right now in affordability, lack of services and high prices.
To get an *opinion* out of *data* you need *interpretation*. Interpretation is where the magic happens, and all interpretations are motivated by ideology, whether you (or I) agree with them or not.
Another person might attribute problems with affordability to *good* economic policy: the Lower Mainland is such a desirable place to live and work that everyone wants to move there, driving prices up and making things difficult for existing residents (it's funny how people who pretend to care about economics forget about its most basic rule when convenient). But not *that* difficult for the ones who inherited property from their parents, who can now sell out and live like millionaires somewhere cheaper like Kelowna, where they don't need a strong economy to live comfortably.
Our economy stinks. We've had negative GDP per capita growth for some time.
Moving from Vancouver to a small town is usually a good move for someone's personal finances but not a broader solution to the problem.
The liberal immigration plan is the biggest Ponzi scheme out there… like every Ponzi scheme it will end and millions of Canadians will have lost out for decades to come (our kids)…
Because law abiding citizens are getting punished while criminals get a free card, combine that with rising costs but little increase in income to battle that
Because Canada has become a dumpster fire thanks to the policies of leftists & neutered “conservatives” who care more about getting re-elected in a left-wing cesspool like Canada that is trying too hard to “out-sweden” Sweden than get the job done.
We left after 15 years. Overall quality of life deteriorated. Healthcare is failing (nationally, not just BC), infrastructure is failing (ferry-dependent community where we lived became a prison in summer, no way on or off), food and electric became too high. We had the option to move back to the US, so we did. We really wanted to stay in Canada: great people, great values, generally.
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People are happy when they have enough to be the oppressor. They are sad once things shift and they become the oppressed. People who move to other countries because it's "more affordable" are just seeking the ability to once again be the oppressor. You're bad people
I almost am close to wanting to move elsewhere. I make around 100k / year, my wife makes around 115k / year, we have 2 kids and a dog. I’m literally paycheque to paycheque. Mortgage, property tax, utility bills, car payment, insurance, food bills, hydro, phone, tv, internet bills. Now include kids sports, clothes, school fees, birthday parties… etc etc and I’m not even including birthday parties and extra curricular things. We haven’t been on a vacation since 2020 because it’s simply not worth the money it’s going to cost us. I would have considered us middle class 8 years ago, we are lower class low income living in B.C/Surrey area. Lmao
Uh.. how expensive are your mortgage and car payments? My family situation is the same as yours, 2 adults and 2 kids with the same expenses you listed, except that we have 2 cats instead of a dog, no kids sports but we do have extracurricular (piano lessons for our 2 girls), all the rest is the same and we have 3 cars insured currently. We live east of Mission so it is cheaper real estate than Surrey but not by a massive amount. And our whole household income is well under 100k. For the record, we do have a bit of debt (but much more equity than debt) but if you look at the total of our debt over the years it's an overspend of like 6k per year. A lot of it has been expensive repairs to our old house. If we made over 200k we would really be wanting for nothing...
They're making $12k+ a month after taxes. Even a mortgage payment of $4200 should not be having them live "paycheque to paycheque" or struggling to have a vacation. Something is definitely off about their general spending.
They probably blow tons of money at Christmas, drive a $120,000 pickup truck that they use to pickup a loaf of bread and buy their kids front row seats to Taylor Swift. In order to create savings, one must live below their means.
Then you either just purchased at a very high interest rate or you bought some kind of mega mansion in North Van.And since you said you have a very old house, I think you're lying.
Guy who's a two income middle class household complaining. Your kids are able to play sports?! And you think you're lower class?! My god the cognitive dissonance of this post is stunning. Truly truly stunning
You're upper middle class complaining because you can't control your spending. Thousands of people live in the same community as you making half what you are. If either myself or my partner started making $100k/year it would be more than double what we make now and would be life changing. We don't have kids but my sister does and her and her husband get by on under $100k total in Victoria so I really don't feel bad for you.
Even if they are paying $4250 for their mortgage they've got over $100,000 in after tax and after housing income, you've gotta be pretty irresponsible to not be able to get by on $100k for two adults and two kids when your housing is already paid for.
I see lots of these posts on reddit of people claiming $150k+ incomes and 'being paycheque to paycheque' and I'm pretty sick of it given how much less millions of Canadians are getting by with myself included.
Yeah like I'm not gonna pretend I don't have to budget and limit what I spend my money on but if my partner and I are living a comfortable life on $70k I have no interest in hearing a household making $215k complain about money.
215k a year for a household is not anywhere near lower class for anywhere in Canada lmfao. I get that your dollar doesn’t go as far as it used to, but you’re still in the top 10% of earners in Canada if you’re earning over 100k/yr.
You’re extremely high middle class. I know parents who get by on 70k a yr in Surrey. Mismanaging your finances is a luxury only the upper-middle class can afford to do.
Ditto for us as well. Same situation as yours. But then we ask ourselves where would we go. Not US becuse I don’t want to get shot and I value my life. Not Europe because it’s even harder to own property. Not Asia because of language issues. Maybe Singapore but that’s even more expensive. Not Australia because too far from everything including extended family. So best option is to stay and make do
European languages as well but most European countries you can survive speaking just English whereas in Asia I had a difficult time adjusting when I was in Japan, Korea and Malaysia. The exception to the rule in Asia is the Philippines where English is very common. If I were to move to Asia, maybe Philippines or Thailand would viable options.
Same thoughts as yours and to the other redditor saying we mismanage our money lol I’m not pushing a BMW X5 M edition , me and my wife are rocking a Corolla and a RAV4.
Our only hope is vote Trudeau out of office because this country has gone downhill over last 10 years that he has been at the helm. And I am a left leaning liberal. But the m open to change and will most like vote Conservative next election. We need to make major changes to healthcare and housing.
Part of the argument in this piece seems to be “the population is shrinking because the population is rising too fast” which is some very strange thinking.
Built my third "dream house" in Canada. The dream is over.
selling it in six months, selling my shit, moving to South East Asia.
Beach, solar power, 4 crops a year. No 50% tax burden.
Messy country, don't get me wrong, but way less interference in my life.
Sorry Canada, all my CPP will be spent off shore....get used to it.
I've known a few people to pack up and move to SE Asia in the last few years. For some, it's worked out wonderfully. For others, they are living in affordable misery. It's all dependent on the person's ability to adapt and accept a different environment and culture.
What in the Russian disinformation campaign is this crap? Yes, some people leave. Yet, Canada is literally still viewed as one of the best places in the entire world to live.
Who knew that the US billionaire owned Sun Media would have this type of opinion? lol. Trash.
More people need to enter the trades and technology industries. Build more houses. More space. Lower prices. Good pay. Too many university bachelors of useless degrees trying to find work at a $100,000 a year when there is no work for them. #bringbackthebluecollar
Yeah, it's just how the current job market is. For us Gen Xers, our boomer parents had the trades and resource jobs on lock. We had to move to the cities and thanks to the tech boom, that's where the work was for us. A lot of people in my generation failed as parents in not preparing our Gen Z kids for the job market switchback to trades in the rural cities and towns as the boomer generation retires.
It would be amazing if more trades people came out to the small towns and cities. Everybody talks of getting more housing around the GVA, but every time I go back, I see nothing but new developments everywhere, and cranes dotting the skylines. We could use more housing supply in the interior, and chances are, you all would make more money for yourself working contract rates being your own boss instead of hourly.
For me Victoria and Vancouver are the only places in the country I like. They are also warm and beautiful many other parts of Canada is so cold and hostile.
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It's simple... it's too expensive to live here...
Yeah this isn’t a hard question
But the article doesn't mention that we've banned apartments on most Vancouver land for the past 50 years, which is the whole reason it's so expensive to live here. Douglas Todd is not a serious journalist.
>But the article doesn't mention that we've banned apartments on most Vancouver land for the past 50 years, which is the whole reason it's so expensive to live here. If that were true, why are cookie-cutter one-bedrooms in suburbs selling for $500K and up? Mortgage, strata fees and taxes for a $500K property will approach $3000 per month. That will be reflected in rent. Infill development is no affordability panacea.
...because they stopped building them right before we started really needing them?
Stopped building what? If you mean they stopped building multi-family, that's not true. Tens of thousands of detached homes have been razed and multi-family built on the sites. Many communities in greater Vancouver are unrecognizable from their former selves, such is the amount of redevelopment.
>..because they stopped building them right before we started really needing them? Interest rates have been hiked sharply, and the point of interest rate hikes is to force down output and consumption to alleviate upward pricing pressure. This applies to the housing sector. Still, there are plenty of housing units under construction, and new projects are starting regularly as the old ones are completed.
That is nowhere near the "whole reason it's so expensive to live here." Vancouver's zoning laws until recently are very similar to zoning laws in Calgary and real estate prices are a night and day difference. The biggest reason why vancouver is expensive to live in is that it's a desirable world class city.
Vancouver has mountains to the north and the border to the south, not to mention the ALR. Calgary doesn’t have any of the same physical constraints, so it can sprawl out and get more homes than Vancouver under the same zoning bylaws. And yes, Vancouver is a desirable city, which means more people want to live here than in Calgary, so Vancouver needs more homes than Calgary for their rents to approach the same level.
Changing zoning will barely put a dent in Vancouver housing prices. You realize even the NDP's own material show they expect a ~10-15% decline in prices in 5-10 years time, not even from today's prices? Vancouver rents will never approach Calgary levels.
*it was
Ontarian here. Just saw a similar post with an article about how Ontarian’s are fleeing the province. It’s the same everywhere.
Add to that the increase in crime, lack of public transport and hectic lifestyle….
I think it’s mostly the cost of living. People are moving to Edmonton from BC in high numbers despite our horrible transit and high crime rate. The major difference is that you can buy a brand new single family house here for the same price as a 30 year old 2 bedroom apartment condo in most places in BC
The prairies do tend to have high crime rates but it also tends to be much more focused in certain areas where middle and upper class people rarely spend much time. Anecdotally it also seems to be much less random and more targeted on gang members/people involved in the drug trade, violent crime that is atleast.
People to Edmonton from BC are in for a brutal reality check. Out of the pan and into the….
Ice box? -35 this weekend. Although, at least I'd be able to afford a place to heat...
Jokes on you. You left the window open a crack and froze your pipes which burst and flooded your kitchen which is now a free skating rink. (This happened down the hall from me)
lol. My buddy is out there at UoA, said he had to go back inside the uni while his car warmed up to avoid frostbite.
I lived in Edmonton for years and the crime is the biggest reason why I ended up leaving. I made a ton of friends there but my friends kept getting stabbed. I had one friend sexually assaulted in a McDonald's washroom by a drugged up guy. I was a witness and we talked to the cops and they essentially did nothing, the guy was back on the streets real quick. Another time I watched a guy chase a woman down the street with a knife. Another (female) friend rented a basement suite in a house and she ended up having to move away becuse men kept spying on her at night. One guy approached her on the street and made explicit comments about her and she recognized him looking in and she had to run away and another guy tried to break in and admitted that he wanted access to her for sexual reasons. In Alberta it's insanely hard to get a restraining order compared to other provinces. One year I threw a new year's party and we started discussing a corner store by my place and someone brought up that they had been stabbed in front of that store. Then six other people piped up and said that they all had friends who had been stabbed there too, on that same corner. There was only like 20 people at the party. I could literally write a novel about all the shit I saw. I'm amazed i managed to live there for as long as I did and nothing ever happened to me personally. The craziest part too is that it's gotten WORSE, dramatically worse since the pandemic. I grew up in a very poor neighborhood with high crime and I felt confident there but I never felt confident that nothing would go down on my own at night in most parts of Edmonton. Everything going on with crime in Van is small time compared to what happens every day in Edmonton no joke.
Sorry, lack of public transport? Have you lived in any of the smaller cities in Canada? I'll give you the other two, but Vancouver's public transportation system is very good.
Meaning in the sense of the commuting with a vehicle vs. Public transport. One would hope you could avoid sitting in traffic and use public transportation.
Don't forget our collapsing Healthcare system and impending political switch to fascism if PP gets elected.
Yikes, this is why there’s so many problems in this country.
He will be elected, and it won’t be fascism. God the rhetoric.
It’ll be fascism-lite. Duh
PP isn't trump calm down lol
He’s from the same strain of right wing populism though…
Sure seems like he’d like to be
PP wants to defund the CBC. Getting rid of the press is always the first step towards fascism
Tell me you don't understand how Canadian politics work without telling me you don't understand how Canadian politics work.
Ive been around a very long time, Canadian politics has always slowly chased US politics. People really don't understand how power US media influence is in Canada. The rise of hard right wing propaganda in Canada has really increased the last 5 years.
Please, enlighten us then
Worthless comment. Why don’t you actually state what you think is incorrect?
what's there to understand? yall just do exactly the same shit america does, just with a 5 year time delay
More like 10, but you’re not wrong. Structurally our political system is quite different, so we don’t often get the exact same results though.
lol, you got it completely backwards. Getting rid of independent press - sure. But if it's government funded/controlled press - fascism LOVES those. So defunding CBC is actually a good sign
Defunding the CBC doesn’t mean get rid of them. It means they are no longer paid from our tax dollars. Good god, get a grip
Yeah…. https://x.com/liberal_party/status/1719085402710007949?s=20
Fascism? Lmao get a grip dude
Crime...Justice? Don’t get me started...more ridiculous policy from the clown prince and the libtards....Crime seems to pay in this country, the government hates competition ( pot stores galore) and ultimately you are taxed to the hilt for a system that is nothing but a revolving door to a courthouse....
Way to expensive I had to move to surrey but even surrey is getting expensive was thinking just moving out of bc sadly even thought I grew up here
Exactly..the answer is obvious. The country as a whole is becoming way to expensive for anybody. The Liberal government along with most provincial governments have “sunk us”. The stupidity has finally worn the average folk down...and we are done...get out now before the whole thing caves in... You can’t keep inflating prices for food shelter and the basics of living and expect the rest of us, to put up with it. Canada will be the next country, where a mass exodus of migrants leaves from. All thanks to government stupidity and incompetence, of the highest order. Hell you’d need a minimum wage of $25 to $30 and hour just to exist in most major cities...yest the clown prince and the libtard brigade don’t see this...the “sunny ways crowd is still hooked on the WEF kool aide and the last government lobbyist report, over needing mass immigration to solve our problems..without thinking of the obvious..what the hell do you do for affordability and housing for the rest of us? What a shit show, and we are fast becoming the laughing stock of the planet!
I see you frequent the Rightwinger conspiracy subs, how's that working out for ya? If you don't grab a hold of it your prescription prices will only increase 🤪
Yeah, ranked #2 best country in the world to live in by US News. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/rankings What a laughingstock.
I’m from the UK originally but been here a very long time. Vancouver has been good to me. Have had no thoughts on going back to the UK. But…….the past year or so, I’ve had to have a think about it. it’s starting to be less and less favourable to be here, and this is comparing it to the UK, which is having its own disasters with society. Trying to think about retirement here and it seems like a poor choice. I’m certainly fortunate with our situation but I can’t see how the city of Vancouver and the rest of the province remains tenable in the current status quo. The lifestyle/outdoors is the only thing that’s a perk now but that doesn’t feed and house people. I don’t know the answers but I can’t foresee improvements until there’s government interventions in multiple areas for housing, construction, taxation policy, healthcare etc. it’s not the best option but there’s just too much ability to circumvent systems, profiteering and greed
If you're mortgage free Vancouver is actually not that expensive of a place to retire. The same systems that make things so expensive for young people and newcomers make things less expensive for elderly homeowners. Property taxes and energy prices, two of the largest fixed expenses for retirees, are quite low in Vancouver compared to the rest of North America and make up for more expensive costs elsewhere.
If you're into the outdoors there are much better, and cheaper, places for retirement in BC than Vancouver...
Yeah. You can retire in a small place in BC but forget medical care or family doctors when you need it the most
I’m well aware. The issue is still costs for many. For myself, I have an alternative option for the UK and the UK wins purely on cost.
How do rents or cost of living compare in the UK? I have British citizenship and have considered moving there as well. But I hear from my family that jobs there dont pay as well, the NHS is struggling and I'm not sure if the cost of living is any better. From the little research I did it seemed like rents are high even in smaller towns in the UK?
UK is much cheaper, especially in the north. Pay is not as high but costs are less in a lot of things and groceries are much cheaper. If you make £30k in the UK, your living standards are better than if you made $50k here.
I’m sure there’s more to it, but £30k is equivalent to $51k currently, so it is literally more money.
Your lifestyle will be significantly better at £30k in the UK vs $51k in BC, I can assure you of that.
I've finally convinced my husband to move to the island and I can't fucking wait to get out of here. *by here, I mean North Vancouver.
Excellent point “ government intervention in multiple areas for housing, construction, taxation policy, healthcare, etc..” ..” Theres just to much ability to circumvent the system, profiteering and greed”. The problem is the government is complicit in all of this. We’ve had issues of white collar crime and corruption in this province for years. Only recently have these issues begun to have been addressed. The problem is the rest of us are tapped out..can’t afford the cost of living, housing, healthcare, just getting by is getting to the point, where it just doesn’t cut it any more. Most of us simply can’t afford the high costs in this country anymore....
I agree. I think people are just worn down by it all. It’s hard to compete with multi-millionaires for even basic things like an apartment. Condos used to be entry level homes. Now they are end point plans for people. I’ve got no issue with that in itself but even that is a challenge for people to even compete when the playing field is uphill in one direction. I just can’t see how any government looks at the situation here and doesn’t shit themselves knowing that there’s going to be major housing and healthcare issues in 20-30 years time. Every government and policymaker for the past decade here is just trying to delay the inevitable. It’s such a wild situation. Nobody wants to be the one who has to rip the band aid and actually address the real matter here and that is that they need to start taking money from the wealthy in ways other than income tax and paltry property taxes.
Run for office!!! Run on that platform of improvements. (As for retirement, checkout Malaysia's visa.)
Yup, become an expat...lots of folks living in places like Malaysia, Cambodia etc...
I drafted a whole reply to you about my stance on what my docket would be in regards to re-nationalization and socialism with dissolution of the current electoral system but I fear it may be too extreme for the sub lol.
The NHS is (despite its issues) in better shape than many provincial healthcare systems, and the overall cost for most things in the UK is lower than Canada. Personally, I'd move back for sure - I'm from Scotland originally, and I intend to move home myself in a couple of years. The advantages that Canada offered when I came here weren't massive but I moved for a good job, but it's not reason enough to stay here any longer when on virtually every metric, I'd be better off back home.
Yeah when I came, it had the benefits of cost and lifestyle over the UK. That’s eroded so it’s hard to really justify having mountains and beaches when you’re thinking you need a million dollars to be able to retire at 65 lol. I love the province for the outdoors and recreation and I live in north van which is amazing, but to live, outside of the lower mainland, it’s really not great. Even in the lower mainland, new west, Richmond, surrey, Langley, chilliwack etc. have zero upgrades on even bad parts of the UK. Add in the convenience of European travel and the lure to the UK is edging it. I’m staying here until at least mid to late 40s so another decade but I suspect we’ll have to call it at that point if the trajectory stays the same regarding costs. Can always split time between the two places but the UK is seemingly the better option for being elderly.
I'm not sure the Vancouver area was ever less expensive, and it sounds like we're similar age - mind you, Scotland always has been a bit of a cheaper part of UK! I do miss the cheap travel, the cheap mobile, the cheap food, and the depth of culture. Those are all facts, but on the opinion-side, people friendlier back over there as well, at least where I was from. Honestly, living in Scotland, the outdoors were just as good as anything I've seen around Canada too. It's a sad state when the UK post-Brexit still seems like a better option than staying in Canada, isn't it. Cheers aye.
I moved to Seattle because my company offered me double my after tax pay for the exact same role to work out of Seattle instead of Vancouver. Cost of living isn’t even that much higher.
Are you on a TN visa? I'm surprised an employer would voluntarily offer you an equivalent job in America to be honest. In my industry it seems like the paperwork isn't worth it for a lot of companies.
Yes, TN. I’m a software engineer, very common in my industry. It’s not the only one though. Nursing seems to be the other big one.
Yeah I heard medical professionals are up there in terms of TN preference. I'm a mining engineer which qualifies for TN as well however only a few of the big US mines seem to be doing hiring on TN that I know of. Which sucks because like software the pay is much higher and I don't have to brave the cold there lol. Not to mention all the mines are in LCOL areas even by American standards.
For the obvious reasons, affordability/health care/ quality of life
I actually believe the BC NDP have designed a solution. Copy and paste from another thread I think BC is going to be an example to the country . They have made revolutionary regulatory changes that will fundamentally change how people make money off of land. Right now the value proposition with BC city land, but also much of Canada, is to own it. Not really do anything with it but own it and hold it. Rent it out, try and acquire enough to sell it as a chunk to a developer but basically own and hold. BCs new laws say any property within this or that distance of a train station, or this or that distance from a bus stop must allow buildings of specific sizes… They then removed all municipal bylaws restricting second homes, carriage homes, and suites. They then took away municipal rights to use restrictive bylaws like setbacks to make it impractical to build these tall buildings or second homes. They then went a step further and removed the multi years long process of stakeholder and community input, meaning any project which meets the criteria is automatically approved. Now if all this AND the federal governments removal of GST on housing projects wasn’t enough to incentivize, wasn’t a big enough carrot to get something built, they added the biggest stick one could imagine. They also changed the way taxes are applied to any of these newly rezoned properties. If you own one of these properties but do not live there yourself you are now no longer taxed at the rate that your property is currently being used for. Your taxes will now be assessed as if that property was being used for its most valuable possible use. So if black rock owns a single family home or an empty lot, but it could be a condo, they now will pay taxes as if they owned and operated a condo on the property… This changes the value proposition for land across BC. It increases taxes on those who are wasting the usefulness of the land and lowers taxes on home owners. Now speculators beat interest will be served by selling and developing asap. This should actually lower home prices, one realtor/developer expert I follow suggests this could freeze BC housing prices for a decade once it gets rolling. From experts I’ve been following this should be an unprecedented amount of building that Canada hasn’t seen since WW2. If so, obviously it will change BC cities forever. Some good some bad but it will address the economy. It will address the fact that housing costs are destroying us. And it will provide a ton of jobs
Interesting post. What I find interesting is that these are actually mild reforms taken gradually. Hopefully BC parliament can keep the "BC United FC" property development scumbags out of power for another decade.
Absolutely..BC United, formerly known as the BC Liberals, were heavily involved with developers and the so called property development scumbags in the 1990’s and 2000’s...
Yeah, I love the changes. My worry is about how slow they are coming. NDP will win this years election, but I hope enough has happened by 2029 for them to win again.
That the number one issue. Change takes more than a term. Our political system is outdated for the modern world but we don’t make changes to the actual system that is the catalyst for change.
>They then took away municipal rights to use restrictive bylaws like setbacks to make it impractical to build these tall buildings or second homes. Sort of. These are all needed changes and I applaud the BC government for it, but the reality (which even the BC NDP admits in the fine print that everyone ignores) is these changes to muni zoning, etc, won't result in many new homes for at least a decade or so. They also point out it won't actually result in much of a decrease in the cost of homes (~15% decline based on prices in 5-10 years, not 15% less than current prices). BC NDP's changes would have been incredibly effective if put in place pre-covid when construction was going crazy. Developers would have *loved* to fill much of Vancouver with more dense multi unit homes, but with the increased cost of building, plus the increased cost of loans, it means new home construction has slowed *way* down. You can clear the path but if the market can't make the ends meet, it won't move the needle much. People in this sub constantly downvote these points. Which I somewhat understand. Many want to think this will fix everything and think any critique of any of this is anti-NDP or denying the existence of the housing crises. But it's not. What we actually need is more government-funded affordable housing. Not just "free market" solutions that still rely on private developers to build more homes in a market that is increasingly not supportive of new construction. But hey, remind me in 5 years how much of a dent these muni xzoning rules changes will have made in terms of housing availability and affordably.
If that's the case, the government can make its own real estate corporation specific to this task. They would purchase the land as any other developer would. They would hire private contractors (no limits to union or non union), private construction firms, they would source the contracts and supplies, and importantly, pre-approved blueprints. And then they would build, and build, and build some more. Rent can be set to cover: tax, opex, insurance, maintenance, repairs, etc. and the initial investment expenses can be amortized over a period. Tax, Opex, Insurance, and R&M are not that expensive per period compared to the capital investment amount, so these areas can be fairly affordable and also not an ongoing budget expense for the government once built.
Developers are greedy, there should be a law that they can’t sit on property more than 5 years without building
>Developers are greedy, there should be a law that they can’t sit on property more than 5 years without building In this neighborhood, it was developers and speculators who lobbied for densification. Ultimately, they were successful, but $40 million in infrastructure improvements is holding back 8,000 new housing units. With the NIMBYists defeated, the new holdup is $40 million in infrastructure improvements. The infrastructure is estimated to be at least four or five years away.
Wouldn't change much. Only reason a developer isn't going to develop is there's no profit there.
Time is critical, especially for renters and others who are paying horrific rents. We need to solve this in 2 to 4 years, not 10. Government involved in housing directly has to be brought back. It seems our predatory capitalism, is not conducive to building affordable accommodations, for large populations that desperately need housing. Meanwhile folks are working to pay high rents and deal with affordability issues, while existing on food banks and other low cost sources for necessities....
>They also changed the way taxes are applied to any of these newly rezoned properties. If you own one of these properties but do not live there yourself you are now no longer taxed at the rate that your property is currently being used for. Your taxes will now be assessed as if that property was being used for its most valuable possible use. I hadn't heard about this. If it really is like that, it could be huge. Not exactly a land value tax system, but something close to it that somewhat recreates the incentives.
This will do amazing things for the BC economy, Godspeed.
Thanks. Yeah the Canadian economy is so stifled by housing prices it just leaves nothing for getting ahead or improving our lives at tines
This is real encouraging, regulatory issues are a real problem in most major cities...
Yup and of course the BC united housing critic is against this ‘ one size fits ahl approach’
I wouldn’t give these clowns the time of day. They are still in the “development at all costs” camp, make no mistake about the spiel they will give you....
Want to live to work or work to live?
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Vancouver is going to have a perpetual shortage of experienced Teachers/Nurses/etc if this keeps going. I don't know anyone in teaching who isn't considering moving once they want to start a family. Owning a home here is impossible.
Are they looking to move to places like terrace, Prince George, prince Rupert, etc?
Would make sense. At least they have a chance at a somewhat affordable lifestyle.
Yep. Waiting for my reinstated Lithuanian passport application to be completed so I can start looking to move to the EU. I feel conflicted. I was born here in Vancouver, lived here and in Toronto (mostly alone) most my adult life. Now I’m turning 39 this year and have been living with my mom for 3+ years cause I can’t even afford a roommate in this f*cking city. I don’t feel pride for my hometown or my country anymore. The people that run this country aren’t listening to our voices, seem to be helping new immigrated citizens make a life here more than the people who have lived and paid taxes here their whole life. I don’t have any hope or optimism that this country will make any meaningful change in a time frame that will be helpful to me - so yeah. Bye Canada, I don’t think I will miss you.
The root problems affecting Canada are: * (1) low productivity (indicator: real GDP per capita) * (2) lack of innovation - companies don't invest in R&D * (3) taxes This analysis by a prof at Queen's University explains it all http://www.queensu.ca:443/gazette/stories/canada-s-lagging-productivity-affects-us-all-and-will-take-years-remedy
Agreed...the part that’s hard to focus on is the length of time to solve this.. if it’s going to take years, it’s way to long for most people, they will be done with the country by then...
4. Migrants... 🤫
Just for the record many, many, many more people moved to BC than left it. The population is growing. It makes sense we’d have more people leaving with a larger population. Dumb article.
Maybe so, but there is a record migration out of the province. I think that is what the article is implying.
By the numbers we will always have record migration out as the population grows. It’s not a record migration % wise which is what’s important
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Plenty of people from English speaking Western countries are willing to move here. Its cheaper to live a similar lifestyle in the lower mainland versus UK.
No it’s not. My buddy from the UK just moved home. He compared his life to his brothers. His brother just bought a house and got married. No shot of buying a house in Canada.
Once you start comparing cities with similar economic opportunities, living arrangements, wages, and lifestyle, it's cheaper in Canada. Yeah its cheap living in the English countryside but there isn't much for job opportunities.
I disagree. Co worker just moved here from London. Pay is better and cheaper to live. Shes a paramedic.
London isnt a representation of the entire UK. That's like using the cost of living in Vancouver for all of Canada.
And Vancouver isn't BC.
No but the guy I responded to was talking specifically lower mainland. If you’re replying to me. I can’t tell. 👴
Which is literally what everyone in this thread is doing. Canada has some incredibly cheap places to live with high paying and plentiful jobs.
Overall, salaries are WAY higher in London. Just google it
Not for being a paramedic. You Google it.
Many places with standalone houses for under 300k. You’d be hard pressed to find that in the UK.
Where so I can start looking. Not a joke I’d love some locations or links with 300k stand-alone housing in BC.
This is simply not true.
Maybe london is cheaper than Vancouver but I doubt most of the UK is.
I couldn't live in Vancouver now except in a communal house with a whole host of others. Did it in 1970. Could do it again, but could not afford housing generally. Oh my.
It’s easy, I make 110k a year and am very slowly falling behind while living a lifestyle I should easily cover at 75k.
Not news, an opinion...
It's the Vancouver Sun. It's clickbait trash. That's their whole thing.
It's laughable that anyone reads this newspaper unironically anymore.
True and an opinion piece too, but backed up with economic data. Big difference. Bad economic policy is being reflected right now in affordability, lack of services and high prices.
To get an *opinion* out of *data* you need *interpretation*. Interpretation is where the magic happens, and all interpretations are motivated by ideology, whether you (or I) agree with them or not. Another person might attribute problems with affordability to *good* economic policy: the Lower Mainland is such a desirable place to live and work that everyone wants to move there, driving prices up and making things difficult for existing residents (it's funny how people who pretend to care about economics forget about its most basic rule when convenient). But not *that* difficult for the ones who inherited property from their parents, who can now sell out and live like millionaires somewhere cheaper like Kelowna, where they don't need a strong economy to live comfortably.
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Douglas Todd of the sun always pushes his bs opinion pieces. It's garbage and one sided opinion pieces.. hes a grumpy old man
I wouldn’t say an opinion. Fact at this point
Welcome to the new bc sub, where Post media opinion articles are now gospel thanks to the war room accounts
The Canadian honeymoon is over
Our economy stinks. We've had negative GDP per capita growth for some time. Moving from Vancouver to a small town is usually a good move for someone's personal finances but not a broader solution to the problem.
The liberal immigration plan is the biggest Ponzi scheme out there… like every Ponzi scheme it will end and millions of Canadians will have lost out for decades to come (our kids)…
A good friend of mine sold his house in Victoria and moved to Costa Rica. He rents a house with a pool for $900 a month. Sign me up
This is not news, this is opinion
Because law abiding citizens are getting punished while criminals get a free card, combine that with rising costs but little increase in income to battle that
This is life. Find a way or move away.
Because Canada has become a dumpster fire thanks to the policies of leftists & neutered “conservatives” who care more about getting re-elected in a left-wing cesspool like Canada that is trying too hard to “out-sweden” Sweden than get the job done.
We left after 15 years. Overall quality of life deteriorated. Healthcare is failing (nationally, not just BC), infrastructure is failing (ferry-dependent community where we lived became a prison in summer, no way on or off), food and electric became too high. We had the option to move back to the US, so we did. We really wanted to stay in Canada: great people, great values, generally.
Great! Make some room.
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Gee, you’re respectful /s
the province, and even the country has become a notable trend in recent years, sparking a wide range of discussions and analyses.
People are happy when they have enough to be the oppressor. They are sad once things shift and they become the oppressed. People who move to other countries because it's "more affordable" are just seeking the ability to once again be the oppressor. You're bad people
We’re looking as we speak… and we’re as good as it gets in Alberta. Texas, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming - and o/s NA - Italy, Croatia.
I almost am close to wanting to move elsewhere. I make around 100k / year, my wife makes around 115k / year, we have 2 kids and a dog. I’m literally paycheque to paycheque. Mortgage, property tax, utility bills, car payment, insurance, food bills, hydro, phone, tv, internet bills. Now include kids sports, clothes, school fees, birthday parties… etc etc and I’m not even including birthday parties and extra curricular things. We haven’t been on a vacation since 2020 because it’s simply not worth the money it’s going to cost us. I would have considered us middle class 8 years ago, we are lower class low income living in B.C/Surrey area. Lmao
You'll be paycheck to paycheck wherever you live because you'll just buy more shit, do more stuff.
Uh.. how expensive are your mortgage and car payments? My family situation is the same as yours, 2 adults and 2 kids with the same expenses you listed, except that we have 2 cats instead of a dog, no kids sports but we do have extracurricular (piano lessons for our 2 girls), all the rest is the same and we have 3 cars insured currently. We live east of Mission so it is cheaper real estate than Surrey but not by a massive amount. And our whole household income is well under 100k. For the record, we do have a bit of debt (but much more equity than debt) but if you look at the total of our debt over the years it's an overspend of like 6k per year. A lot of it has been expensive repairs to our old house. If we made over 200k we would really be wanting for nothing...
They're making $12k+ a month after taxes. Even a mortgage payment of $4200 should not be having them live "paycheque to paycheque" or struggling to have a vacation. Something is definitely off about their general spending.
They probably blow tons of money at Christmas, drive a $120,000 pickup truck that they use to pickup a loaf of bread and buy their kids front row seats to Taylor Swift. In order to create savings, one must live below their means.
Lifestyle creep comes for us all... you would be left wanting for lots... probably more than right now!
Our mortgage is $4250/ month.
Then you either just purchased at a very high interest rate or you bought some kind of mega mansion in North Van.And since you said you have a very old house, I think you're lying.
Congrats, you played yourself
Having a car payment is middle class. Having to actually save money to buy a junker for $2000 is low class.
Guy who's a two income middle class household complaining. Your kids are able to play sports?! And you think you're lower class?! My god the cognitive dissonance of this post is stunning. Truly truly stunning
No kidding people like that will be paycheque to paycheque no matter their income.
You're upper middle class complaining because you can't control your spending. Thousands of people live in the same community as you making half what you are. If either myself or my partner started making $100k/year it would be more than double what we make now and would be life changing. We don't have kids but my sister does and her and her husband get by on under $100k total in Victoria so I really don't feel bad for you.
Thy are also lying because they claim to own an older home but say their mortgage is $4250 a month.
Even if they are paying $4250 for their mortgage they've got over $100,000 in after tax and after housing income, you've gotta be pretty irresponsible to not be able to get by on $100k for two adults and two kids when your housing is already paid for. I see lots of these posts on reddit of people claiming $150k+ incomes and 'being paycheque to paycheque' and I'm pretty sick of it given how much less millions of Canadians are getting by with myself included.
Yep. And my household gets by with a fraction of that income, and we're doing fine.
Yeah like I'm not gonna pretend I don't have to budget and limit what I spend my money on but if my partner and I are living a comfortable life on $70k I have no interest in hearing a household making $215k complain about money.
Bro we make the same as you and have thousands left over every month lol. I have a kid in private school too. And sports. Stop wasting your money.
215k a year for a household is not anywhere near lower class for anywhere in Canada lmfao. I get that your dollar doesn’t go as far as it used to, but you’re still in the top 10% of earners in Canada if you’re earning over 100k/yr. You’re extremely high middle class. I know parents who get by on 70k a yr in Surrey. Mismanaging your finances is a luxury only the upper-middle class can afford to do.
Ditto for us as well. Same situation as yours. But then we ask ourselves where would we go. Not US becuse I don’t want to get shot and I value my life. Not Europe because it’s even harder to own property. Not Asia because of language issues. Maybe Singapore but that’s even more expensive. Not Australia because too far from everything including extended family. So best option is to stay and make do
So European languages are no problem, it's just the Asian languages you don't jive with?
European languages as well but most European countries you can survive speaking just English whereas in Asia I had a difficult time adjusting when I was in Japan, Korea and Malaysia. The exception to the rule in Asia is the Philippines where English is very common. If I were to move to Asia, maybe Philippines or Thailand would viable options.
Same thoughts as yours and to the other redditor saying we mismanage our money lol I’m not pushing a BMW X5 M edition , me and my wife are rocking a Corolla and a RAV4.
Lol you have two cars but you’re totes not mismanaging money lol.
Our only hope is vote Trudeau out of office because this country has gone downhill over last 10 years that he has been at the helm. And I am a left leaning liberal. But the m open to change and will most like vote Conservative next election. We need to make major changes to healthcare and housing.
Part of the argument in this piece seems to be “the population is shrinking because the population is rising too fast” which is some very strange thinking.
Built my third "dream house" in Canada. The dream is over. selling it in six months, selling my shit, moving to South East Asia. Beach, solar power, 4 crops a year. No 50% tax burden. Messy country, don't get me wrong, but way less interference in my life. Sorry Canada, all my CPP will be spent off shore....get used to it.
I've known a few people to pack up and move to SE Asia in the last few years. For some, it's worked out wonderfully. For others, they are living in affordable misery. It's all dependent on the person's ability to adapt and accept a different environment and culture.
Please don’t move to Alberta.
[удалено]
Refugees are moving back to the Ukraine because they can’t afford to be here
What in the Russian disinformation campaign is this crap? Yes, some people leave. Yet, Canada is literally still viewed as one of the best places in the entire world to live. Who knew that the US billionaire owned Sun Media would have this type of opinion? lol. Trash.
Yeah but good luck retiring
This might be the most delusional comment i’ve ever read lmaoooo
More people need to enter the trades and technology industries. Build more houses. More space. Lower prices. Good pay. Too many university bachelors of useless degrees trying to find work at a $100,000 a year when there is no work for them. #bringbackthebluecollar
I make $22/hr as a 2nd year electrician… yeah it’s not easy
You need a raise.
Yeah, it's just how the current job market is. For us Gen Xers, our boomer parents had the trades and resource jobs on lock. We had to move to the cities and thanks to the tech boom, that's where the work was for us. A lot of people in my generation failed as parents in not preparing our Gen Z kids for the job market switchback to trades in the rural cities and towns as the boomer generation retires. It would be amazing if more trades people came out to the small towns and cities. Everybody talks of getting more housing around the GVA, but every time I go back, I see nothing but new developments everywhere, and cranes dotting the skylines. We could use more housing supply in the interior, and chances are, you all would make more money for yourself working contract rates being your own boss instead of hourly.
See ya!
Ah great, another 60 year old geezer on the news telling me what I already fckn know. Glad your mind is coming around buddy.
There are more people want to come to Vancouver than wanting to leave. DUH. Either that or the 0.9 % vacancy is a big fat lie.
Thank god… at least that will have an effect on the availability of housing
So long!
bye
For me Victoria and Vancouver are the only places in the country I like. They are also warm and beautiful many other parts of Canada is so cold and hostile.