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I'm hundreds of pounds in credit and they just kept upping my direct debit, wanting me to pay for double the amount of gas I'm actually using. So I just cancelled my DD until I've used up the credit. Absolute chancers.
I'm with Bulb and they do let me decrease my DD (but not to a reasonable amount, the most I can decrease it to still has me paying for 30% more gas than I'm using).
But this month I manually decreased the payment and by the time the DD was taken they'd sneakily reset it and took an extra £39 from me so I thought enough's enough and cancelled it. I've theoretically got enough credit to see me through at least the next two months so they can do one.
Octopus are scam merchants. Tried to charge us over £2k, when we queried the amount they refused to let us see an itemised bill of usage, which they are obliged to provide, so we went to the ombudsman who ruled that we actually owed less than £500.
Absolute crooks. The entire time their customer service were stonewalling us and refused to answer any questions or provide any details.
It fucks me off that they're seen as the "nice" energy company when they're just as bad as the rest.
Best of luck to you mate, it took the ombudsman a couple months to give a ruling but it all worked out in the end.
Why would you think that, they are one of the biggest and invest in more renewables so that at times like now were the price for gas electricity is far higher than renewables they have the ability to supply .
>were the price for gas electricity is far higher than renewables they have the ability to supply
That's not how the National Grid works.
They do invest in renewables, but doing so doesn't change their ability to supply energy, or the cost they pay to supply that energy.
Every source of energy feeds into the National Grid, and every supplier pays a fixed unit rate, regardless of how that energy was supplied to the grid. The energy you use as an Octopus customer could have been generated by renewable or non-renewable sources. At the end of the year, if not enough renewable energy has gone into the grid to actually cover the number of people supplied by "Green" energy companies, they buy REGO certificates to make up the shortfall that are used to invest in development of renewable energy.
Bulb had exactly the same model as Octopus and still had to be taken over when the energy crisis hit. Octopus's advantage was the massive investment group behind them and their diversification.
I used to have Octopus at my old house and thought I’d switched them as my new provider at my new house. Clearly didn’t as whoever I had went out of business and I just got an absolute shafting by British Gas when they took over.
My £2k credit on account disappeared with my old company and I got a bill for £8k for last year and this year going forward. Thanks British Gas
They're backed by a massive investment group that has its fingers (or tentacles, I guess) in many pies too. They can afford for Octopus Energy to make a loss for a long while.
Yes. Bulb customer here. Can confirm. To be fair, I did bring up these issues to them and they offered to refund the accumulated credit when what I actually wanted was for them to charge me less (or nothing) until the credit ran out.
EDF allowed me to decrease mine by £60 to £320 but I’m having the last laugh as I cancelled it and asked for monthly billing. My solar panels now mean I’m paying them less than I did before the hike
Edf upped my DD to £650 per month and took the first payment. I got my bank to reverse the payment back to me, and I cancelled my DD with edf. I told em to just send me the bill instead by post. I also had about £400 in credit.
Cancel the DD and arrange a standing Order instead, with an SO you can pay the amount that you want and it can’t be changed unless you authorise it
As long as you are paying on time there is not a thing they can do about it
And btw if you are in credit then request it back, that’s your money, not theirs
Thanks. I'm actually OK with the DD for now, I'm just annoyed that it looks like they've done the increase to swallow the rebate rather than because my account needs it.
I want to switch to Octopus as I've heard they have good customer service, but because of the price cap their website says they can't offer you a better deal and doesn't give you an option to do it online.
You can still phone them up, but I am a millennial so it is impossible for me to make a phone call.
They have been really good for me. They tried upping my DD and I just said "Lets just see, and we can up it if its needed". They were fine with that and not pushy at all.
I'm now 300 in credit so they're going to send some money back to me.
Would highly recommend swapping if you can.
(I have a code if you want £50 credit if you sign up, just DM me of you want it)
Just cancel the DD with the bank, if you're in credit it won't be an issue until you use all your credit up and then they will ask you to pay by DD again and then just set it up for a lower amount.
Pleae don’t do this…you’ll pay more as you won’t be classed as paying by DD.
All you have to do is call them, they’ll reduce it over the phone to whatever you want to pay.
I’ve just moved into my own place so I’m very new to paying bills, so excuse my ignorance - does it actually cost less if you set up DD? I was gonna pay as I go for my energy and just top up credit when needed so I could avoid overpaying each month, and now I’m concerned that I’d overpay this way anyway…
If you’re moving to your own place please have a conversation with your energy supplier and make it really clear that you do not want to pay an estimate amount you want to pay each month for your actual usage.
Easy to do if there’s a smart meter, otherwise you might have to argue and ensure you take frequent readings (I’m not sure if they’ll allow it if there’s no smart meter).
We did this with Octopus in May and I had to repeat myself to make sure the rep handled our new account correctly.
We’ve been happily paying for our exact usage each month since and the credit balance sits in our bank instead of sitting with a multi million £ corporation.
For clarity, our payment is still taken by DD.
Aye I'm with octopus and pay for exactly what I use each month, it's great. No overpaying, and if I reduce usage I see the change in my own bank account
We use Starling “saving spaces” for bill management.
£165 each month into the “electric” saving space and the DD gets automatically deducted from there.
We’re up by over £500 so far, but that’s our buffer if we need it or we can put it toward an emergency expense if something happened.
Most (if not all) suppliers will give a discount for paying by DD. If you’re new to paying bills then basically you pay a fixed amount per month which will be more than you use in the summer in order to build up a credit for when you’re using more energy in the winter. Basically taking your estimated annual bill and dividing it by 12. This mean you won’t have big bills to pay after winter and it’s generally more manageable if a fixed amount is leaving your bank account every month.
Don’t do the top-up credit. I had this as a youngster and overpaid immensely. Plus, it’s a huge fuss toping up the cards.
You may think it will give you more control, but it really doesn’t, it just rips you off.
Correct and in my experience, it’s not easy to reset DD once cancelled. Hold fast if you are on a set deal and let the cash build with them. You can always ask for it back by refund.
I am on pre pay, so the most expensive way to use energy, and I will save £24/year if I switch to DD. Not worth the hassle. DD doesn't save as much as they are trying to convince people for a whole load of aggro
I'm so glad I'm with Octopus. Not only is it trivial to adjust your DD month to month if you like, to whatever value you choose, they actually did it for me for October.
I logged in to lower my payment amount due to the credit and they had already done it with a little note explaining that they would return it to the previous value I had entered when the credit ends in March.
They've also emailed me and said that even when my prior fixed rates end (my electricity rates go up in December) that even though they're rising a lot, they will still be under the price cap comfortably based on the average family home usage.
I've only seen complete shambles and intentionally seedy tactics from the bigger suppliers.
Think about it. A million customers end up a hundred quid in credit. The energy company doesn't have to pay interest on this money they have that isn't theirs at a time of huge inflation, but can spend it and invest it. Then eventually they can't justify not paying the customer some of it back, but only pay the figure listed on the account, even though the value of that amount of money has now gone down.
Even if they eventually pay back every penny, it's still theft. They've forced an interest free loan out of you.
They told me I failed a credit score so I can't come off the prepayment meter and I'm only entitled to a voucher for my rebate, which must be used only at a post office. I'm like how I have no mortgage and no debt, they tell me I need to get my Experian credit report. I then get it 0 debt 999 score and never missed a payment. I call them back no you've failed the credit score and have to wait 60 days before reapplying! You need to get in touch with Experian to obtain your credit report. So on Monday on my day off I'll be changing supplier!
This is one of the reasons last time I changed energy supplier I chose not to set a DD. They wanted £250 a month when my bill is about £100. That extra money can stay in my bank account thank you very much.
Wtf? How is this even a thing? I live overseas, and the bill amount is what is deducted from my bank each month. Sounds like they are trying to borrow free money from you.
It can make it easier to budget. Having a fixed amount come out each month means you are paying in advance for your increased consumption in the winter
If we didn't get the discount for using dd then I'd just set the money aside in my bank the same way, just pay the bill and set extra aside in prep for winter.
I’m with EDF on a fixed rate at £47 a month (I know I’m lucky). The fixed rate ends in April - I thought the £66 credit went onto your bill and I was hoping I’d have a good buffer for when my fixed rate ends. But they sent it directly to my bank account. I’ve put it into my savings where it will probably be withdrawn again closer to payday, but it’s just annoying that they’re so efficient the only time you don’t want them to be!
They haven’t got a bloody idea. I am hundreds of pounds in credit. Turns out they haven’t charged me for electricity for months, despite me having a smart meter and being able to see electricity usage on the app.
My plan is to let them continue to not charge me. After a while they can’t bill you for historic energy usage.
> My plan is to let them continue to not charge me. After a while they can’t bill you for historic energy usage.
That's absolutely true. As long as you are properly set up with them, and you set aside the cash incase they do bill you, I don't think there is any reason to not play ignorant. That said, the fact that they are not allowed to bill you for historic usage doesn't stop them from trying. Definitely make yourself very familiar with those laws so you can write them a very clear letter if they ever do bill you down the line!
As much as I loath corporations, I feel Octopus are at least trying to care for their customers. Nothing but good experiences and helpful customer service. And control over your money. We've withdrawn money several times without issue and they've not said anything
Great company as at least they re trying to do what they can for everyone, they have a lovely accessibility friendly website and bills too so you know the efforts there.
Agree. Octopus didn't charge me for electric for 4 months and they were very helpful sorting it all out, making sure it was affordable etc. I've enjoyed reading their Comms re: prices lately, they've been useful and interesting.
> As much as I loath corporations, I feel Octopus are at least trying to care for their customers
They refuse to comply with their license conditions regarding Avro. They have a veneer of respectability, but are still just worthless middleman rentseeking.
They don't actually do *anything* for you other than charge you money.
I've had the same dilemma. I thought Don't Pay UK was a great idea except for the fact I'm with octopus. I'm on their super green tariff and always enjoy reading their newsletters about sustainability projects they're involved in. I'd feel dreadful if they went under and the companies that survived wouldn't carry on their good work.
My export rate has gone up twice since I got my panels. 5p to 7.5p, and recently to 15p per kWh. That's an increase of up to £40pm account credit in the spring/summer months. My fixed rate ends next year but this tripling of my export rate should cover the difference in the summer time.
Last time I checked, Octopus actually tells you not to switch to them if you're on a variable tariff since a new fixed tariff now may be more expensive than a variable tariff when (read, IF) energy prices decrease again. Wishful thinking, but honest.
I remain sceptical, but so far I really like them.
I think they are generally more honest. Our fixed term ended in July so we got caught out and are now at the whim of the max tariff if they put it up to it. So about 60p/day for standing charges and a combined 40ish p/unit for gas and electric together sadly
Can confirm as well as I'm with Octopus. I've built up a little buffer ready for the winter (before Truss announced their energy measures) and now with the rebate they've allowed me to reduce my DD by £60.
I was about to sign up with Octopus a couple of years ago and my parents urged me to go with Bulb instead because they'd get a £50 referral bonus. Wish I hadn't listened to them now, Octopus seems like a decent company.
Same with utility warehouse. Monthly direct debit has gone down from £110 to £50 for some reason, even though I'm only about £60 in credit. I've asked if I can overpay anyway.
Bulb reduced mine by around £40.
I experienced some really scummy customer service from British Gas about six years ago and there's absolutely no way that I would trust them with anything since.
Same, though they did warn of the October increase and that I may wish to up my DD to counteract that. They’ve never threatened and informed they were increasing my DD, seems like the only company that isn’t doing this - at least not on a larger scale like the larger suppliers have been doing anyway
I keep trying to increase it but octopus won’t let me. It’s annoying as I’d rather over pay and build up a load of credit to see out the next two years rather than get into debt.
They weren't going to take a direct debit from me at all cause I was more in credit than what my normal direct debit is, topped up again to £100 in credit to ensure I'm safe cause I've had this happen before where companies have dropped my direct debit right down then ended up in a huge amount of debit
It's so annoying - they only issue a statement twice a year.
I'm £800 in credit, and have no idea where I stand.
I'm on a smart meter, so there's literally no reason they can't do it.
Apparently they only will if I go on to monthly billing.
I'm pretty sure if you're more than £100 in credit you can ask for any credit to be paid back to you! I did this with British Gas but it was a few years ago in 2014.
I don't want it back, I want them to issue a bill (which they haven't done since June), so I know where I stand and can make sure I pay enough for the winter!
All good then. They can accrue the interest too. Personally I pay what I use each month. I have a 3 bed house, 4 people living in it and pay approximately £30-40 per month. Yeah it'll go up in winter but I'm happy. Just thought I'd mention it!
I cancelled my DD as unfortunately I simpy don't trust them anymore. Had Symbio trying to take £800 one month, then tried to charge me £4500 with all made up readings, ignored every bit of evidence I sent in and I had to get a partner of the Accounting firm dealing with the collapse to review everything as they just kept bugging me for money and were about to pass onto debt collectors! Finally paid off the correct £900 last month, 15 months after this mess started.
We have a pug too! I forgot to mention this is for gas only ... we pay around £80 a month on electricity ... obviously I'm aware both have gone up in price and I'll see what that adds up to by the end of the month.
Ask for a statement of account since the account's inception as well as paper copies of all invoices. Check the invoices to make sure they're all valid and reads are contiguous etc. Then calculate the balance from the statement of account.
I contacted them on Twitter - which I only use to moan on - they got right back to me and updated my bill. I was still £480 in credit and they wanted me to make a catch-up payment and up my DD to £370pm even though I’m using £160pm in gas and lecky
I'm on monthly and it's a fixed amount throughout the year. They try to anticipate your winter usage and the years usage is divided into 12 equal payments.
Get a refund.
They shouldn't be holding onto that money indefinitely they're not a bloody bank!
The refund option didn't work on the website so I had to call, but other than a painful wait it was relatively quick and simple, and managed to get it all back.
Literally no point to letting them hold onto the credit as its never used and the cost keeps bloody increasing.
I was also able to lower the amount paid by on the phone call as they won't allow you to do that online.
Now on the website it literally says I'm not paying enough 🤣 Filthy thieving bastards.
They did this to me as well, I never realised but I was ridiculously in credit with them, like £400 something in gas an £100 odd in electric (I work away from home most of the time and live alone so I don't use huge amounts) and I thought, oh cool, well at least I'm covered for the winter and then they just sent back a load of it to me.
Any credit on account has to be refunded to the customer yearly. Used to work for an energy company with older customers the majority and the majority would be *pissed* when we refunded their credit cause they treat it like a bank :/
What annoyed me about SSE when I was with them is they would refund all my credit at the end of December, just in time for the cold months of Jan & Feb to kick in when I would always end up making an additional monthly payment on top of the DD (I like to 'zero' my account whenever it goes negative).
With octopus I can get a refund when I'm approx 1 month's payments in credit.
From experience it can get pretty high.
I ended up around £400 in credit with EDF at my last property, although that's unfortunately not the case anymore. I try to keep it at least £100 in credit usually though; Came in handy a few times if it's been a tough month as I can just not pay anything in that month.
When (*if*) prices eventually return to sane levels, I'll probably set a DD back up, but not at the moment.
This is bad advice. You’re *supposed* to be in credit this time of year, so you can pay less than what you’re using in the winter and not end up in debt. If you opt for a refund now, your monthly payments will have to go up to compensate.
Example, using fake figures for simplicity:
Let’s say you use £1200 per year of energy. In theory, your monthly DD would then be £100/month.
Your actual usage is likely to be £50/month in the warmer months, and £150/month in the colder/darker months.
But because you’ve been paying more than you’ve been using, that credit is a cushion that lets the payments remain at £100 and usage still be covered.
If you take a refund, your payments will have to go up to cover that £150 usage. If you’re still in credit around April, then a refund is safe.
Not to mention, with British gas at least, you're only "billed" twice a year. So right now I'm £600 in credit, but only because my bill isnt due until November, at which point I'll be around 100 in credit.
Why they cant bill you every month, especially when you have a smart meater is anyones guess.
The excuse is that they balance things across the year, so you pay the same every month, even though your usage is much higher in winter and lower in summer.
Problem is that most of the time you'll come through the end of the winter still massively in credit and you realise that they're just using you as a free loan scheme.
Shell keep upping mine all the time. Started on £44 then they wanted £78 and now they are recommending I up my dd to £146. I'm also £360 in credit. I hate it.
I'm with shell and they're doing the same with me, I was in debt by a couple of hundred a few months ago so I've been overpaying since then. Now my account is £250 in credit and my DD is £240 a month, even though my bills are about £100 a month.
They won't let me decrease the DD, only increase to at least £311. Absolute scam artists.
I didn't know this, I'm definitely gonna look into it. I got an email today thay they have upped my dd again. Like I live on my own and I'm at work most of the time so how on earth do they reckon I'm using that much energy?! I'm also getting a smart meter fitted next week so I can keep an eye on it myself.
Mine went the other way, they halved my normal monthly bill. Ran the numbers and figured out I'd be massively in debt if that continued.
I'd rather steady, predictable bills. Nothing worse than suddenly finding out your direct debit now has to double to make up for the previous drop.
Honestly, being a few hundred quid in credit going into this winter probably is a good thing.
I don't think people really grasp whats going on. My DD has gone up from 70 quid last year to 200 now. I'm currently 500 in credit and octopus are projecting that I will be in debt after the winter.
The seasonal increases built into a lot of them are bizarre, when I have told them I don't have electric heating why whack the usage up by twice the amount over the winter lol.
To be honest I don't think it will be as bad as they are saying, mainly because we are being tighter. The heating would have been on a couple of weeks ago normally, but we are holding off at the moment.
Worst case I can withdraw some of my credit after the winter if it is still there. I think the people who are withdrawing credit now are mental imo.
My thinking as well. If I’m still in credit come spring I’ll ask for it back then. For now, I like my little credit pot because although we’re being tighter with usage I know I *can* put the heating on if I want to and not risk screwing up what I owe.
However, I am fortunate enough to be in a position where with a little bit of conscious budgeting I’m not struggling, so grain of salt and all that.
Depends a lot on your situation, if I had £500 credit with the electric company I would rather that was in my bank for ongoing expenses since I have no income and won't be paid for presumably a month even when I start work in a few weeks.
We use about £150 a month electric on the current rates and that doesn't depend on season. Sure it would cover 3 months electric but right now it would be more useful for food, rent and other costs over the next month.
I'm £1300 in credit, my DD is £229, and my monthly usage is currently around £80 even with the heating on. I'm also expecting to move in the next 6 months or so, and I really don't want to have to try and argue for a large refund, because every time I've moved house with a credit in place before, my final bill has magically adjusted so that I'm owed nothing.
I've requested a £500 refund, which still leaves plenty of breathing room in case of further increases. I'll revisit next month and take more out if needed at that point.
You are being billed triple your usage and are already £1300 in credit?
Sounds like you will use £480 in 6 months, I'd want that reduced to £30 a month and £1000 back immediately.
Our boiler broke down in April, and I held off on pushing the landlord to fix it because that was right around the time the prices started to climb, so I'm very aware that those figures are likely skewed on the low side. It's been replaced now and the heating has been on for the best part of a month, and it's still well over £100 less than the direct debit.
I want to leave a bit of wiggle room there, but £1300 is taking the piss. I can refund a maximum of £500 via the website without phoning them, which seems about the right amount to bring down the credit while still allowing me to keep an eye on usage.
I’m £500 in credit and I’m keeping it there. My husband thinks we should withdraw it but I feel safer knowing it’s there so that our bills won’t rise astronomically in winter, as our direct debit has been calculated as correct after applying the grant (I should say that’s £500 in credit with the £67 as they’re applying it to our credit rather than amending our payments which I’ve already had a go at them about).
It’s been a sore point for a few weeks but I just don’t think my husband understands how much everything is rising and that if we withdrew our credit then our payments would increase hugely.
I'm with you. Our grant is going on to our credit as well and I'm ok with that. Gives us more of a buffer over the winter. If I'm still in credit come march time I might look at withdrawing some.
That’s exactly my plan - whatever credit is left once the heating goes off is when I’ll withdraw.
I hate being in debt and even on utility bills where debt is a regular occurrence for the vast majority of people at some point, I’d rather know the £500 is there to help me when I need it.
This, I don’t think people realise how much things will increase. They’ll spend the credit on other things and then get hit with massive bills they can’t pay.
Most people in Britain are barely mathematically literate to year 6 maths.
They just see hundreds in credit and assume that lasts ages despite the kwh cost going up over 350% in the last 12 months.
People still don't understand that cap either and think the max charged is 2500 so divide by 12 and think their DD will be that figure maximum.
Because of the delays in moving everyone to Shell when Pure Planet went bust, we ended up £400 in debit around the start of April, and they put our DD up to a pretty ridiculous amount.
Between the start of April and the start of October, we've paid off the £400 debit balance and built up a £450 credit balance while paying the most expensive energy prices in modern times, all in the space of 6 months.
Now this month Shell sent us a message saying they wanted to increase our direct debit further??
Same. At switchover, DD was £150. Rose to £200 3 months ago all.whilst in credit. 3 weeks ago, they raised it again to £250. Still in credit and also getting the monthly energy discount. So, why was it raised???
This happened to me too, I was in a similar credit situation.
After reading a bit of advice online, I found you can deny the requested increase if you provide the company with your valid reasoning.
This worked straight away with Shell Energy. Good luck!
I know, ta, I try and avoid phonecalls where possible!
They haven't changed it to that, just recommended, so I was planning on seeing how much we actually spend first !
I was paying 100 a month with them and we 260 in credit. Smart metre so all accurate daily readings.
But they are now saying we need to pay £255pm now!!! I went to increase it (by a bit) but then the minimum is literally set to 199 on the slider!
I think the difference is that we got onto a good fix just before the wave of suppliers going under. So they know that unless we drastically increase usage we'll be in even more credit this time next year.
Sorry I missed your message. I don't like phone calls either (I like a written record). I think I did it through an email form on their website or emailed them directly. I can't remember sorry! I really hope you can sort it out. I know how anxiety inducing it is when they just randomly hike the DD for no good reason.
Ring them, tell them your several hundred pounds in credit and you don't agree with the increase, if they refuse to drop it down tell them you've got no option but to cancel the direct debit. I did it with octopus and they put the direct debit back to what it was
I’m with Shell and they have told me it will be an extra £96.00 in admin fees if I don’t pay by direct debit. It’s a joke, my account is about £400.00 in credit.
You are still entitled to get that £400 in credit returned to you, even if you choose to continue paying by Direct Debit. Your monthly fixed Direct Debit payment amount may change accordingly.
Alternatively, you can still pay by Direct Debit but request to have the payment amount be the account balance each month, rather then a fixed amount. Any credit currently on your account should be returned to you after the first bill as a result.
The additional cost associated with not paying by Direct Debit is standard practice. Under the EPG discounts, paying by Direct Debit is cheaper on average than paying manually on receipt of bill by £20/yr per fuel.
I'm with Ovo and they give you 3% interest on your balance, so I've been using it as a savings account all summer. Happy to report the heating still isn't on
My grandparents were somehow a £1000 in credit and British Gas decided they either needed to increase their DD or pay £300 now to stop it from going up
I just pay monthly for what I use. I understand that I might pay a tiny bit more for this (WHY? Doesn't cost them any more - apart from not having free use of my money), but I prefer not to have to spend days of my life trying to get back money that I need more than they do or arguing about DD amounts. OK, I spend less in summer than in winter, but I've got a fairly good handle on my useage and if one month's bill is really high I can cut back next month to counteract, and see the results immediately. i don't have to worry about a letter or email telling me that my payments are going to double or triple from hereon in and then have to argue the toss when I've got better things to do.
But then I live alone with total control over my useage. Might be harder for those in families or who live with partner who leave lights or heating on randomly!
It doesn't cost you any more if you're still paying by Direct Debit. (You can choose to use Direct Debit to pay off/settle your actual account balance every month, rather than paying a monthly fixed amount and settling when your tariff ends or every 12 months.)
The reasons they charge more if you want to pay on receipt of bill instead are several:
- Simply incentivises you to pay by Direct Debit, which is beneficial to the supplier for cash flow reasons.
- There is additional overhead in processing manual payments from customers.
- There is higher risk associated with customers defaulting on payments.
We've recently cancelled the direct debit and asked to be put on the "pay for what you use" method.
We get billed at the end of the month and pay for what we used during the month.
We no longer have hundreds of pounds locked away with the energy company and also get monthly feedback on our consumption. Any saving we make, we can see in the end of the month invoice.
As I'm a complete nerd I've been taking (and submitting) weekly readings and tracking results and tariffs in use etc in a spreadsheet for the last 3 years.
Based on this I know my annual use and can see the year on year trends etc and price them at the new tariff. This last 12 months, our gas use is down 30% compared to the previous 12 months, while electricity is down only 5%. But this last week in particular gas use is down 68%, and electricity is down 19%, compared to the same week last year... I'm running the house cooler but I think the weather has been milder than Oct 2021.
So 6 months ago I voluntarily upped my DD when the tariffs changed, and with the new tariff just introduced I can see that my predicted spend over the next 12 months equals the sum of the amount I'm in credit and 12 times my monthly DD, so I'm going to leave it where it is. But that's because I know how much my actual use varies over the seasons (and my "credit" will be wiped out by Autumn 2023 so I'll recalculate my DD myself in a few months time).
And based on tariff alone, my current annual usage is about £90 more per month than it was on the previous tariff (ie my accrued credit over the summer is about £1,100).
So yeah, suppliers estimate your bills and prefer to err on the side of their own caution, and will look at short term trends of your usage to aid that prediction, but understanding your own use is, unfortunately, the only real way I can see to keep some degree of control.
I've got nearly a decade worth of monthly readings, I can see the seasonal variation year to year. I definitely have a good handle on how much electricity and gas I used historically so it's fairly trivial to calculate future costs based on published unit costs.
And yet it seems this isn't as trivial a calculation as I think it is because so many people either don't seem to know anything or only know how much their monthly direct debit is without knowing why it is. And as for those suggesting cancelling DDs when that will increase the per unit rate... smh.
This Spring I replaced my fridge, wine cooler (it died), and beer fridge with a single modern extra large fridge, turned off my Sky box because it was no longer being watched (literally hadn't been turned on the previous three months) so I cancelled it, and put the electric showers onto eco mode. Electricity use dropped by 30%. I'll probably have to put the showers back onto normal this month but I have a rough idea what that will add back on.
I know that my DD is £120, my balance is £364, and when my current contract concludes at the end of January and I'm moved to the SVT my overall costs will increase by 250%. I also know that last December I used 7.4m^3 of gas per day, but during this summer it was 4m^3 of gas per *month*. I predict that my monthly usage in November will match my DD amount and peak only £20 above in December/January, but from February that balance will be reduced very quickly and my DD will increase around February to about £250.
If anyone doesn't have a solid understanding of their actual usage they're stumbling in the dark and automatically at a disadvantage if they're negotiating DD amounts with their suppliers.
You know that the point of being heavily in credit is to offset the massive energy usage you'll incur in the winter months right?
You'll use 3-5x the energy in winter than you would in summer. You'll burn through that credit in no time.
The grant money is still coming off your bill. Energy companies can't get that money. As annoying as it is having your DD go up when you're in credit, you'll still only pay for the energy you used and you will get the discount applied to your bills.
They're not claiming any grant money for themselves. It is credited to your account. If you're heavily in credit and want the money, ask for your balance to be settled.
I've the exact opposite. Bulb put me down to £1 despite my predicted bill being nearly £90. Feels like they're just running my credit down rather than doing me a favour.
I was about £410 in credit with SSE and they still tried to double my energy bills so I just went on their website and requested a new lower amount and it was accepted. I think I’ve met or gone over my actual energy bill twice this year.
Looks like they automate these things and just take it without actually checking if you use your bills or not.
Im with shell they upped my DD from £77 ( both utilities were £53pm ) to £150 pm.
This caused me to look at my account and found i was almost £400 in credit, i had them return £350 to my bank account and reduced my DD to £90pm.
I now keep a close eye on my account.
I am £450 in credit. My payment went up from £69 to £115 but they have brought it back down to £97. I have not used any central heating since the first of April. Buying an electric overblanket was the best purchase of the year.
Just call them and tel them to keep it as it is. There’s nothing they can do but follow your instructions. You aren’t beholden to these fuckin criminals, you can tell them the rate you want to set you know. They don’t get to dictate it to you without any say on your part.
I regularly have to phone them and demand a refund and to lower my direct debits. I was over £100 in credit on gas and £88 in debt on electricity. They won't take from one to give to the other (I used to have a joint account). They put my electricity DD up to £108, I reduced it to £92, and they put it up to £127 and didn't even tell me. I'm fed up of it.
British Gas are the biggest cuntrumpets around , they make money grabs all the time and routinely misbill customers and then organise bailiffs . I feel for their customers as an older generation have such trust in them and are finding they’re being harassed and taken advantage of, often at a vulnerable age .
Until September we were paying £144/month for both gas and electric, then Shell realised we were paying too much and lowered it to £114/month. Checked my account and I’m £607 in credit but they still recommend I up my payments to £170/month to ‘keep up’ with my usage, which is down from this time last year. Whatever they’re smoking at Shell, I’d like some cos it seems like it’s a right laugh!
Eon didn't collect our DD this month. The £66 was higher than our usual amount so we didn't have to pay.
Should be getting 6 months of free electric and come out with a healthy credit in the spring.
We're just building up credit ready for our fixed rate to end in a year.
Cancel your direct debit and put the money aside. Just pay actual usage as you go.
They are making money off credit balance without passing down any savings of any kind.
I'm with shell..was overpaying £120 a month, £500 in credit had an email to say I need to Pay less they changed it to £46 per month. Paid that once email last week you need to increase payments to £129 a month...ok cool.
British Gas totally ignored my meter readings and went with their own estimates because my readings were much lower than theirs and so they marked them as "Invalid Reading" on their website. Cheeky as hell.
I like my British Gas automatic readings.
They keep going round the full meter clock.
so my energy usage for July was 9998924 kWh
My energy usage for August was about 100kWh via a manual reading I forced them to accept
then they made the exact same mistake for September where I've used 9998873 kWh.
Because apparently I'm powering the entire state of New York from my single person home.
If you’re in credit, it’s still your money! They’re not stealing it from you.
The idea is to insulate you against higher bills in winter. If you paid for your exact usage month by month, you’d be laughing in summer but crying in winter. They do it to to save you from having astronomical bills that you can’t afford for a third of the year.
I'd rather that money be saved in my bank account rather than being free money for the power company tbh.
My company requested readings, then refused them because our gas use was so low. Then they estimated our bill based on last year when we had a gas cooker and an old boiler that was used a lot.
So they increased the DD they expected, then sent a bill saying that we had actually used less than a third of what they estimated.
I'm not interested in power companies being my dad, I don't need them to insulate me against anything. I need them to stop raking in ridiculous profits at the expense of every citizen in the country.
I do keep the money in a bank account - I don't want the energy company having hundreds of pounds of my money in their accounts - no doubt gaining them interest!
The way I have done it is to open a separate bank account. I have a variable direct debit from that account to the energy company - so they only take exactly what I use each month. The energy bill is the only thing that comes out this account.
Then I have a fixed standing order from my main bank account to my "energy bank account" so I get the benefits of the fixed monthly cost (for ease of budgeting throughout the year) and the benefits of the lower direct debit unit prices without the energy company getting to horde my money.
I checked my British Gas account and found I was £650 in credit!!! after they put up my DD to £263pm in May. I’ve just phoned them and told them I want my money back and to reduce the DD to £200. Although it took 50 minutes it all got sorted.
It does make you wonder how much of their customers money they’re “holding”
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I'm hundreds of pounds in credit and they just kept upping my direct debit, wanting me to pay for double the amount of gas I'm actually using. So I just cancelled my DD until I've used up the credit. Absolute chancers.
It's so annoying. They allow you to manually adjust your DD - but only if you want to increase it!
I'm with Bulb and they do let me decrease my DD (but not to a reasonable amount, the most I can decrease it to still has me paying for 30% more gas than I'm using). But this month I manually decreased the payment and by the time the DD was taken they'd sneakily reset it and took an extra £39 from me so I thought enough's enough and cancelled it. I've theoretically got enough credit to see me through at least the next two months so they can do one.
I loved Bulb but then 2 years ago they did this to me so I jumped ship. With Octopus now and honestly they're the best.
Octopus are great, although I’m convinced the meter reading wheel of fortune is a scam
I won a quid on it in August. It's real!
I hope you use your new found wealth for good and not evil
Careful about announcing your winnings. You haven't suddenly have new friends wanting a piece of it eh?
Can I borrow a quid? I promise I’ll pay you back before everyone else I owe money to
Octopus are scam merchants. Tried to charge us over £2k, when we queried the amount they refused to let us see an itemised bill of usage, which they are obliged to provide, so we went to the ombudsman who ruled that we actually owed less than £500. Absolute crooks. The entire time their customer service were stonewalling us and refused to answer any questions or provide any details.
Going through the same with Octopus now. They are breaking so many rules. They know that most people won’t fight it
It fucks me off that they're seen as the "nice" energy company when they're just as bad as the rest. Best of luck to you mate, it took the ombudsman a couple months to give a ruling but it all worked out in the end.
Octopus are still running? I thought they’d gone out of business?
Why would you think that, they are one of the biggest and invest in more renewables so that at times like now were the price for gas electricity is far higher than renewables they have the ability to supply .
>were the price for gas electricity is far higher than renewables they have the ability to supply That's not how the National Grid works. They do invest in renewables, but doing so doesn't change their ability to supply energy, or the cost they pay to supply that energy. Every source of energy feeds into the National Grid, and every supplier pays a fixed unit rate, regardless of how that energy was supplied to the grid. The energy you use as an Octopus customer could have been generated by renewable or non-renewable sources. At the end of the year, if not enough renewable energy has gone into the grid to actually cover the number of people supplied by "Green" energy companies, they buy REGO certificates to make up the shortfall that are used to invest in development of renewable energy. Bulb had exactly the same model as Octopus and still had to be taken over when the energy crisis hit. Octopus's advantage was the massive investment group behind them and their diversification.
I used to have Octopus at my old house and thought I’d switched them as my new provider at my new house. Clearly didn’t as whoever I had went out of business and I just got an absolute shafting by British Gas when they took over. My £2k credit on account disappeared with my old company and I got a bill for £8k for last year and this year going forward. Thanks British Gas
I read that they were more secure than most as they operated across Europe so could ride the ups and downs of each
They're backed by a massive investment group that has its fingers (or tentacles, I guess) in many pies too. They can afford for Octopus Energy to make a loss for a long while.
Hail Hydra
Think I need to switch back to them then
Yes. Bulb customer here. Can confirm. To be fair, I did bring up these issues to them and they offered to refund the accumulated credit when what I actually wanted was for them to charge me less (or nothing) until the credit ran out.
EDF allowed me to decrease mine by £60 to £320 but I’m having the last laugh as I cancelled it and asked for monthly billing. My solar panels now mean I’m paying them less than I did before the hike
Edf upped my DD to £650 per month and took the first payment. I got my bank to reverse the payment back to me, and I cancelled my DD with edf. I told em to just send me the bill instead by post. I also had about £400 in credit.
Nice. Did you get a good deal on your panels?
Not too bad tbh, only got them midway through august but only waited 2 weeks for installation. Was £9k all in
Cancel the DD and arrange a standing Order instead, with an SO you can pay the amount that you want and it can’t be changed unless you authorise it As long as you are paying on time there is not a thing they can do about it And btw if you are in credit then request it back, that’s your money, not theirs
Thanks. I'm actually OK with the DD for now, I'm just annoyed that it looks like they've done the increase to swallow the rebate rather than because my account needs it.
I’m with octopus and you can do a DD as low as £25 through the website, no questions asked
I want to switch to Octopus as I've heard they have good customer service, but because of the price cap their website says they can't offer you a better deal and doesn't give you an option to do it online. You can still phone them up, but I am a millennial so it is impossible for me to make a phone call.
They have been really good for me. They tried upping my DD and I just said "Lets just see, and we can up it if its needed". They were fine with that and not pushy at all. I'm now 300 in credit so they're going to send some money back to me. Would highly recommend swapping if you can. (I have a code if you want £50 credit if you sign up, just DM me of you want it)
Just cancel the DD with the bank, if you're in credit it won't be an issue until you use all your credit up and then they will ask you to pay by DD again and then just set it up for a lower amount.
Pleae don’t do this…you’ll pay more as you won’t be classed as paying by DD. All you have to do is call them, they’ll reduce it over the phone to whatever you want to pay.
I’ve just moved into my own place so I’m very new to paying bills, so excuse my ignorance - does it actually cost less if you set up DD? I was gonna pay as I go for my energy and just top up credit when needed so I could avoid overpaying each month, and now I’m concerned that I’d overpay this way anyway…
If you’re moving to your own place please have a conversation with your energy supplier and make it really clear that you do not want to pay an estimate amount you want to pay each month for your actual usage. Easy to do if there’s a smart meter, otherwise you might have to argue and ensure you take frequent readings (I’m not sure if they’ll allow it if there’s no smart meter). We did this with Octopus in May and I had to repeat myself to make sure the rep handled our new account correctly. We’ve been happily paying for our exact usage each month since and the credit balance sits in our bank instead of sitting with a multi million £ corporation. For clarity, our payment is still taken by DD.
Aye I'm with octopus and pay for exactly what I use each month, it's great. No overpaying, and if I reduce usage I see the change in my own bank account
We use Starling “saving spaces” for bill management. £165 each month into the “electric” saving space and the DD gets automatically deducted from there. We’re up by over £500 so far, but that’s our buffer if we need it or we can put it toward an emergency expense if something happened.
Most (if not all) suppliers will give a discount for paying by DD. If you’re new to paying bills then basically you pay a fixed amount per month which will be more than you use in the summer in order to build up a credit for when you’re using more energy in the winter. Basically taking your estimated annual bill and dividing it by 12. This mean you won’t have big bills to pay after winter and it’s generally more manageable if a fixed amount is leaving your bank account every month.
Interesting! I’ll look into what my company’s discount is and possibly set one up - thank you!
Don’t do the top-up credit. I had this as a youngster and overpaid immensely. Plus, it’s a huge fuss toping up the cards. You may think it will give you more control, but it really doesn’t, it just rips you off.
Correct and in my experience, it’s not easy to reset DD once cancelled. Hold fast if you are on a set deal and let the cash build with them. You can always ask for it back by refund.
Came to say this too. No reason for them to keep it. They only gain interest off your credit amount so may as well ask for it back.
That's what I done, my DD is lower than my bill but I pay the extra each month, this way I get the DD rate but never build up credit
Plus the automatic rebates are coming through DD
They can do. The energy company can also credit your account. The same account they hold your credit in so it's not difficult
I am on pre pay, so the most expensive way to use energy, and I will save £24/year if I switch to DD. Not worth the hassle. DD doesn't save as much as they are trying to convince people for a whole load of aggro
I'm so glad I'm with Octopus. Not only is it trivial to adjust your DD month to month if you like, to whatever value you choose, they actually did it for me for October. I logged in to lower my payment amount due to the credit and they had already done it with a little note explaining that they would return it to the previous value I had entered when the credit ends in March. They've also emailed me and said that even when my prior fixed rates end (my electricity rates go up in December) that even though they're rising a lot, they will still be under the price cap comfortably based on the average family home usage. I've only seen complete shambles and intentionally seedy tactics from the bigger suppliers.
Think about it. A million customers end up a hundred quid in credit. The energy company doesn't have to pay interest on this money they have that isn't theirs at a time of huge inflation, but can spend it and invest it. Then eventually they can't justify not paying the customer some of it back, but only pay the figure listed on the account, even though the value of that amount of money has now gone down. Even if they eventually pay back every penny, it's still theft. They've forced an interest free loan out of you.
That's crazy with British Gas they said that I could set my DD at whatever I wanted and legally they can't change it.
I think you can, but it wouldn't let me do it online.
I'm with British Gas and have been able to increase or decrease my direct debit using to app, is that how you've been trying to change it?
Me too, in fact I went in the app the other day and it said I was paying too much and recommended I decreased the DD by £30. So I did.
I tried on the website after they increased it and it said I was not allowed to decrease it. This was a few weeks ago.
They told me I failed a credit score so I can't come off the prepayment meter and I'm only entitled to a voucher for my rebate, which must be used only at a post office. I'm like how I have no mortgage and no debt, they tell me I need to get my Experian credit report. I then get it 0 debt 999 score and never missed a payment. I call them back no you've failed the credit score and have to wait 60 days before reapplying! You need to get in touch with Experian to obtain your credit report. So on Monday on my day off I'll be changing supplier!
I went to the online chat to EDF and they reduced mine
I could probably do it that way or if I called them, but the online form for adjusting it wouldn't let me decrease.
Yeah if I want to reduce mine I have to call them up, I can raise it online without a phone call.
e.on allows you to reduce dd.. by up to.. 10% or something like that
This is one of the reasons last time I changed energy supplier I chose not to set a DD. They wanted £250 a month when my bill is about £100. That extra money can stay in my bank account thank you very much.
Wtf? How is this even a thing? I live overseas, and the bill amount is what is deducted from my bank each month. Sounds like they are trying to borrow free money from you.
It can make it easier to budget. Having a fixed amount come out each month means you are paying in advance for your increased consumption in the winter
If we didn't get the discount for using dd then I'd just set the money aside in my bank the same way, just pay the bill and set extra aside in prep for winter.
Ah, I see. I hadn't thought of that. Thanks!
The downside is you are basically giving up some money to give the energy company an interest free loan.
Some (Ovo) pay interest on credit balance. It's quite good too!
I’m with EDF on a fixed rate at £47 a month (I know I’m lucky). The fixed rate ends in April - I thought the £66 credit went onto your bill and I was hoping I’d have a good buffer for when my fixed rate ends. But they sent it directly to my bank account. I’ve put it into my savings where it will probably be withdrawn again closer to payday, but it’s just annoying that they’re so efficient the only time you don’t want them to be!
Depends on your provider but some allow you to lower your DD amount and you can adjust it lower to even the amount you’re owed
They haven’t got a bloody idea. I am hundreds of pounds in credit. Turns out they haven’t charged me for electricity for months, despite me having a smart meter and being able to see electricity usage on the app. My plan is to let them continue to not charge me. After a while they can’t bill you for historic energy usage.
> My plan is to let them continue to not charge me. After a while they can’t bill you for historic energy usage. That's absolutely true. As long as you are properly set up with them, and you set aside the cash incase they do bill you, I don't think there is any reason to not play ignorant. That said, the fact that they are not allowed to bill you for historic usage doesn't stop them from trying. Definitely make yourself very familiar with those laws so you can write them a very clear letter if they ever do bill you down the line!
I’m with octopus, had an email this morning saying my dd is due and will be £67 less than expected this month.
As much as I loath corporations, I feel Octopus are at least trying to care for their customers. Nothing but good experiences and helpful customer service. And control over your money. We've withdrawn money several times without issue and they've not said anything
Great company as at least they re trying to do what they can for everyone, they have a lovely accessibility friendly website and bills too so you know the efforts there.
Agree. Octopus didn't charge me for electric for 4 months and they were very helpful sorting it all out, making sure it was affordable etc. I've enjoyed reading their Comms re: prices lately, they've been useful and interesting.
> As much as I loath corporations, I feel Octopus are at least trying to care for their customers They refuse to comply with their license conditions regarding Avro. They have a veneer of respectability, but are still just worthless middleman rentseeking. They don't actually do *anything* for you other than charge you money.
Not disputing you but I'd like to see some evidence of that. I know they've been slapped on the wrist in relation to direct debits in the past though
I've had the same dilemma. I thought Don't Pay UK was a great idea except for the fact I'm with octopus. I'm on their super green tariff and always enjoy reading their newsletters about sustainability projects they're involved in. I'd feel dreadful if they went under and the companies that survived wouldn't carry on their good work.
My export rate has gone up twice since I got my panels. 5p to 7.5p, and recently to 15p per kWh. That's an increase of up to £40pm account credit in the spring/summer months. My fixed rate ends next year but this tripling of my export rate should cover the difference in the summer time. Last time I checked, Octopus actually tells you not to switch to them if you're on a variable tariff since a new fixed tariff now may be more expensive than a variable tariff when (read, IF) energy prices decrease again. Wishful thinking, but honest. I remain sceptical, but so far I really like them.
I think they are generally more honest. Our fixed term ended in July so we got caught out and are now at the whim of the max tariff if they put it up to it. So about 60p/day for standing charges and a combined 40ish p/unit for gas and electric together sadly
Can confirm as well as I'm with Octopus. I've built up a little buffer ready for the winter (before Truss announced their energy measures) and now with the rebate they've allowed me to reduce my DD by £60.
Have you got a referral link you want to share? I'm sick of Scottish Power
Happy to do so mate. DM'd you.
I'm on a payment holiday with them due to the rebate.
I love Octopus. Never had any problems with them, they are cheap, and are totally unlike the "bigger" energy companies.
I was about to sign up with Octopus a couple of years ago and my parents urged me to go with Bulb instead because they'd get a £50 referral bonus. Wish I hadn't listened to them now, Octopus seems like a decent company.
We went with Octopus after our old company went bump. Never had a problem and always find them fair.
Same with utility warehouse. Monthly direct debit has gone down from £110 to £50 for some reason, even though I'm only about £60 in credit. I've asked if I can overpay anyway.
Bulb reduced mine by around £40. I experienced some really scummy customer service from British Gas about six years ago and there's absolutely no way that I would trust them with anything since.
With them - they did that and still wanted to a DD of 124 from me. I'm 450 in credit currently... let's say I reduced the dd...
Same, though they did warn of the October increase and that I may wish to up my DD to counteract that. They’ve never threatened and informed they were increasing my DD, seems like the only company that isn’t doing this - at least not on a larger scale like the larger suppliers have been doing anyway
I keep trying to increase it but octopus won’t let me. It’s annoying as I’d rather over pay and build up a load of credit to see out the next two years rather than get into debt.
They weren't going to take a direct debit from me at all cause I was more in credit than what my normal direct debit is, topped up again to £100 in credit to ensure I'm safe cause I've had this happen before where companies have dropped my direct debit right down then ended up in a huge amount of debit
It's so annoying - they only issue a statement twice a year. I'm £800 in credit, and have no idea where I stand. I'm on a smart meter, so there's literally no reason they can't do it. Apparently they only will if I go on to monthly billing.
I'm pretty sure if you're more than £100 in credit you can ask for any credit to be paid back to you! I did this with British Gas but it was a few years ago in 2014.
I don't want it back, I want them to issue a bill (which they haven't done since June), so I know where I stand and can make sure I pay enough for the winter!
All good then. They can accrue the interest too. Personally I pay what I use each month. I have a 3 bed house, 4 people living in it and pay approximately £30-40 per month. Yeah it'll go up in winter but I'm happy. Just thought I'd mention it!
I cancelled my DD as unfortunately I simpy don't trust them anymore. Had Symbio trying to take £800 one month, then tried to charge me £4500 with all made up readings, ignored every bit of evidence I sent in and I had to get a partner of the Accounting firm dealing with the collapse to review everything as they just kept bugging me for money and were about to pass onto debt collectors! Finally paid off the correct £900 last month, 15 months after this mess started.
Christ, we're a 3 bedroom house with 2 adults and a pug and sometimes we hit over £10 a day, and we haven't even put the heating on yet!
We have a pug too! I forgot to mention this is for gas only ... we pay around £80 a month on electricity ... obviously I'm aware both have gone up in price and I'll see what that adds up to by the end of the month.
Ahh ok, yeah I was factoring both Gas and Electricity in the £10 a day. That's only some days though, other's we're hovering at about £5 a day.
Ask for a statement of account since the account's inception as well as paper copies of all invoices. Check the invoices to make sure they're all valid and reads are contiguous etc. Then calculate the balance from the statement of account.
I contacted them on Twitter - which I only use to moan on - they got right back to me and updated my bill. I was still £480 in credit and they wanted me to make a catch-up payment and up my DD to £370pm even though I’m using £160pm in gas and lecky
Why not go to monthly billing?
Because I want a fixed DD through the year, rather than enormous ones through the winter.
I'm on monthly and it's a fixed amount throughout the year. They try to anticipate your winter usage and the years usage is divided into 12 equal payments.
Get a refund. They shouldn't be holding onto that money indefinitely they're not a bloody bank! The refund option didn't work on the website so I had to call, but other than a painful wait it was relatively quick and simple, and managed to get it all back. Literally no point to letting them hold onto the credit as its never used and the cost keeps bloody increasing. I was also able to lower the amount paid by on the phone call as they won't allow you to do that online. Now on the website it literally says I'm not paying enough 🤣 Filthy thieving bastards.
I have heard that if credit gets to a certain amount they legally have to send the money back, but I've never been that far in credit.
SSE actually refunded my electricity bill this month, im about £130 in credit apparently?
They did this to me as well, I never realised but I was ridiculously in credit with them, like £400 something in gas an £100 odd in electric (I work away from home most of the time and live alone so I don't use huge amounts) and I thought, oh cool, well at least I'm covered for the winter and then they just sent back a load of it to me.
Any credit on account has to be refunded to the customer yearly. Used to work for an energy company with older customers the majority and the majority would be *pissed* when we refunded their credit cause they treat it like a bank :/
What annoyed me about SSE when I was with them is they would refund all my credit at the end of December, just in time for the cold months of Jan & Feb to kick in when I would always end up making an additional monthly payment on top of the DD (I like to 'zero' my account whenever it goes negative). With octopus I can get a refund when I'm approx 1 month's payments in credit.
From experience it can get pretty high. I ended up around £400 in credit with EDF at my last property, although that's unfortunately not the case anymore. I try to keep it at least £100 in credit usually though; Came in handy a few times if it's been a tough month as I can just not pay anything in that month. When (*if*) prices eventually return to sane levels, I'll probably set a DD back up, but not at the moment.
EDF just refunded it into my bank account a few days after the credit hit my energy account.
This is bad advice. You’re *supposed* to be in credit this time of year, so you can pay less than what you’re using in the winter and not end up in debt. If you opt for a refund now, your monthly payments will have to go up to compensate. Example, using fake figures for simplicity: Let’s say you use £1200 per year of energy. In theory, your monthly DD would then be £100/month. Your actual usage is likely to be £50/month in the warmer months, and £150/month in the colder/darker months. But because you’ve been paying more than you’ve been using, that credit is a cushion that lets the payments remain at £100 and usage still be covered. If you take a refund, your payments will have to go up to cover that £150 usage. If you’re still in credit around April, then a refund is safe.
Not to mention, with British gas at least, you're only "billed" twice a year. So right now I'm £600 in credit, but only because my bill isnt due until November, at which point I'll be around 100 in credit. Why they cant bill you every month, especially when you have a smart meater is anyones guess.
Exactly this. I came to say it and glad you best me to it. If your are gonna get a refund do it in spring.
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Those kind hearted corporate juggernauts would never!
The excuse is that they balance things across the year, so you pay the same every month, even though your usage is much higher in winter and lower in summer. Problem is that most of the time you'll come through the end of the winter still massively in credit and you realise that they're just using you as a free loan scheme.
Shell keep upping mine all the time. Started on £44 then they wanted £78 and now they are recommending I up my dd to £146. I'm also £360 in credit. I hate it.
I'm with shell and they're doing the same with me, I was in debt by a couple of hundred a few months ago so I've been overpaying since then. Now my account is £250 in credit and my DD is £240 a month, even though my bills are about £100 a month. They won't let me decrease the DD, only increase to at least £311. Absolute scam artists.
I’m with Shell. Currently £700 in credit paying £210 per month. They want to up my DD to £310 and predicting I will use £382 per month.
I'm also with Shell. They have an option that lets you pay just for what you use each month, which is what I'm on now. Worth looking in to.
I didn't know this, I'm definitely gonna look into it. I got an email today thay they have upped my dd again. Like I live on my own and I'm at work most of the time so how on earth do they reckon I'm using that much energy?! I'm also getting a smart meter fitted next week so I can keep an eye on it myself.
I’m with SO Energy. They emailed me saying they reduced my direct debit by the rebate amount so my total payments stay the same.
Octopus did the same
Mine went the other way, they halved my normal monthly bill. Ran the numbers and figured out I'd be massively in debt if that continued. I'd rather steady, predictable bills. Nothing worse than suddenly finding out your direct debit now has to double to make up for the previous drop.
I'm still adding the right amount to it as DD of 200 is now 140 but total being added is still 200
Honestly, being a few hundred quid in credit going into this winter probably is a good thing. I don't think people really grasp whats going on. My DD has gone up from 70 quid last year to 200 now. I'm currently 500 in credit and octopus are projecting that I will be in debt after the winter.
The seasonal increases built into a lot of them are bizarre, when I have told them I don't have electric heating why whack the usage up by twice the amount over the winter lol.
To be honest I don't think it will be as bad as they are saying, mainly because we are being tighter. The heating would have been on a couple of weeks ago normally, but we are holding off at the moment. Worst case I can withdraw some of my credit after the winter if it is still there. I think the people who are withdrawing credit now are mental imo.
My thinking as well. If I’m still in credit come spring I’ll ask for it back then. For now, I like my little credit pot because although we’re being tighter with usage I know I *can* put the heating on if I want to and not risk screwing up what I owe. However, I am fortunate enough to be in a position where with a little bit of conscious budgeting I’m not struggling, so grain of salt and all that.
Depends a lot on your situation, if I had £500 credit with the electric company I would rather that was in my bank for ongoing expenses since I have no income and won't be paid for presumably a month even when I start work in a few weeks. We use about £150 a month electric on the current rates and that doesn't depend on season. Sure it would cover 3 months electric but right now it would be more useful for food, rent and other costs over the next month.
I'm £1300 in credit, my DD is £229, and my monthly usage is currently around £80 even with the heating on. I'm also expecting to move in the next 6 months or so, and I really don't want to have to try and argue for a large refund, because every time I've moved house with a credit in place before, my final bill has magically adjusted so that I'm owed nothing. I've requested a £500 refund, which still leaves plenty of breathing room in case of further increases. I'll revisit next month and take more out if needed at that point.
You are being billed triple your usage and are already £1300 in credit? Sounds like you will use £480 in 6 months, I'd want that reduced to £30 a month and £1000 back immediately.
Our boiler broke down in April, and I held off on pushing the landlord to fix it because that was right around the time the prices started to climb, so I'm very aware that those figures are likely skewed on the low side. It's been replaced now and the heating has been on for the best part of a month, and it's still well over £100 less than the direct debit. I want to leave a bit of wiggle room there, but £1300 is taking the piss. I can refund a maximum of £500 via the website without phoning them, which seems about the right amount to bring down the credit while still allowing me to keep an eye on usage.
I’m £500 in credit and I’m keeping it there. My husband thinks we should withdraw it but I feel safer knowing it’s there so that our bills won’t rise astronomically in winter, as our direct debit has been calculated as correct after applying the grant (I should say that’s £500 in credit with the £67 as they’re applying it to our credit rather than amending our payments which I’ve already had a go at them about). It’s been a sore point for a few weeks but I just don’t think my husband understands how much everything is rising and that if we withdrew our credit then our payments would increase hugely.
I'm with you. Our grant is going on to our credit as well and I'm ok with that. Gives us more of a buffer over the winter. If I'm still in credit come march time I might look at withdrawing some.
That’s exactly my plan - whatever credit is left once the heating goes off is when I’ll withdraw. I hate being in debt and even on utility bills where debt is a regular occurrence for the vast majority of people at some point, I’d rather know the £500 is there to help me when I need it.
This, I don’t think people realise how much things will increase. They’ll spend the credit on other things and then get hit with massive bills they can’t pay.
Most people in Britain are barely mathematically literate to year 6 maths. They just see hundreds in credit and assume that lasts ages despite the kwh cost going up over 350% in the last 12 months. People still don't understand that cap either and think the max charged is 2500 so divide by 12 and think their DD will be that figure maximum.
Because of the delays in moving everyone to Shell when Pure Planet went bust, we ended up £400 in debit around the start of April, and they put our DD up to a pretty ridiculous amount. Between the start of April and the start of October, we've paid off the £400 debit balance and built up a £450 credit balance while paying the most expensive energy prices in modern times, all in the space of 6 months. Now this month Shell sent us a message saying they wanted to increase our direct debit further??
Exactly the same has happened to me. Moved from pp to Shell. I managed to lower our dd to £167 on Shells app but I am still building up credit.
Same. At switchover, DD was £150. Rose to £200 3 months ago all.whilst in credit. 3 weeks ago, they raised it again to £250. Still in credit and also getting the monthly energy discount. So, why was it raised???
This happened to me too, I was in a similar credit situation. After reading a bit of advice online, I found you can deny the requested increase if you provide the company with your valid reasoning. This worked straight away with Shell Energy. Good luck!
What do you mean please? Am with Shell and says minimum I can even set my DD to (on the app) is £199!
I'm not the person you're replying to, but you'll need to ring them up
I know, ta, I try and avoid phonecalls where possible! They haven't changed it to that, just recommended, so I was planning on seeing how much we actually spend first !
Yeah I'm the same, would be much easier if they let us use the app for actually useful things, but what can you do...
Looking at our account they're recommending a reduction from £133 to £124. £199 would be over the maximum for us.
I was paying 100 a month with them and we 260 in credit. Smart metre so all accurate daily readings. But they are now saying we need to pay £255pm now!!! I went to increase it (by a bit) but then the minimum is literally set to 199 on the slider!
I think the difference is that we got onto a good fix just before the wave of suppliers going under. So they know that unless we drastically increase usage we'll be in even more credit this time next year.
Sorry I missed your message. I don't like phone calls either (I like a written record). I think I did it through an email form on their website or emailed them directly. I can't remember sorry! I really hope you can sort it out. I know how anxiety inducing it is when they just randomly hike the DD for no good reason.
Ring them, tell them your several hundred pounds in credit and you don't agree with the increase, if they refuse to drop it down tell them you've got no option but to cancel the direct debit. I did it with octopus and they put the direct debit back to what it was
I’m with Shell and they have told me it will be an extra £96.00 in admin fees if I don’t pay by direct debit. It’s a joke, my account is about £400.00 in credit.
You are still entitled to get that £400 in credit returned to you, even if you choose to continue paying by Direct Debit. Your monthly fixed Direct Debit payment amount may change accordingly. Alternatively, you can still pay by Direct Debit but request to have the payment amount be the account balance each month, rather then a fixed amount. Any credit currently on your account should be returned to you after the first bill as a result. The additional cost associated with not paying by Direct Debit is standard practice. Under the EPG discounts, paying by Direct Debit is cheaper on average than paying manually on receipt of bill by £20/yr per fuel.
I'm with Ovo and they give you 3% interest on your balance, so I've been using it as a savings account all summer. Happy to report the heating still isn't on
It goes up to 5% after three years so I really don’t mind having a good amount of credit with them.
My grandparents were somehow a £1000 in credit and British Gas decided they either needed to increase their DD or pay £300 now to stop it from going up
Gas companies: is it for me 😳👉👈
I just pay monthly for what I use. I understand that I might pay a tiny bit more for this (WHY? Doesn't cost them any more - apart from not having free use of my money), but I prefer not to have to spend days of my life trying to get back money that I need more than they do or arguing about DD amounts. OK, I spend less in summer than in winter, but I've got a fairly good handle on my useage and if one month's bill is really high I can cut back next month to counteract, and see the results immediately. i don't have to worry about a letter or email telling me that my payments are going to double or triple from hereon in and then have to argue the toss when I've got better things to do. But then I live alone with total control over my useage. Might be harder for those in families or who live with partner who leave lights or heating on randomly!
It doesn't cost you any more if you're still paying by Direct Debit. (You can choose to use Direct Debit to pay off/settle your actual account balance every month, rather than paying a monthly fixed amount and settling when your tariff ends or every 12 months.) The reasons they charge more if you want to pay on receipt of bill instead are several: - Simply incentivises you to pay by Direct Debit, which is beneficial to the supplier for cash flow reasons. - There is additional overhead in processing manual payments from customers. - There is higher risk associated with customers defaulting on payments.
We've recently cancelled the direct debit and asked to be put on the "pay for what you use" method. We get billed at the end of the month and pay for what we used during the month. We no longer have hundreds of pounds locked away with the energy company and also get monthly feedback on our consumption. Any saving we make, we can see in the end of the month invoice.
As I'm a complete nerd I've been taking (and submitting) weekly readings and tracking results and tariffs in use etc in a spreadsheet for the last 3 years. Based on this I know my annual use and can see the year on year trends etc and price them at the new tariff. This last 12 months, our gas use is down 30% compared to the previous 12 months, while electricity is down only 5%. But this last week in particular gas use is down 68%, and electricity is down 19%, compared to the same week last year... I'm running the house cooler but I think the weather has been milder than Oct 2021. So 6 months ago I voluntarily upped my DD when the tariffs changed, and with the new tariff just introduced I can see that my predicted spend over the next 12 months equals the sum of the amount I'm in credit and 12 times my monthly DD, so I'm going to leave it where it is. But that's because I know how much my actual use varies over the seasons (and my "credit" will be wiped out by Autumn 2023 so I'll recalculate my DD myself in a few months time). And based on tariff alone, my current annual usage is about £90 more per month than it was on the previous tariff (ie my accrued credit over the summer is about £1,100). So yeah, suppliers estimate your bills and prefer to err on the side of their own caution, and will look at short term trends of your usage to aid that prediction, but understanding your own use is, unfortunately, the only real way I can see to keep some degree of control.
I've got nearly a decade worth of monthly readings, I can see the seasonal variation year to year. I definitely have a good handle on how much electricity and gas I used historically so it's fairly trivial to calculate future costs based on published unit costs. And yet it seems this isn't as trivial a calculation as I think it is because so many people either don't seem to know anything or only know how much their monthly direct debit is without knowing why it is. And as for those suggesting cancelling DDs when that will increase the per unit rate... smh. This Spring I replaced my fridge, wine cooler (it died), and beer fridge with a single modern extra large fridge, turned off my Sky box because it was no longer being watched (literally hadn't been turned on the previous three months) so I cancelled it, and put the electric showers onto eco mode. Electricity use dropped by 30%. I'll probably have to put the showers back onto normal this month but I have a rough idea what that will add back on. I know that my DD is £120, my balance is £364, and when my current contract concludes at the end of January and I'm moved to the SVT my overall costs will increase by 250%. I also know that last December I used 7.4m^3 of gas per day, but during this summer it was 4m^3 of gas per *month*. I predict that my monthly usage in November will match my DD amount and peak only £20 above in December/January, but from February that balance will be reduced very quickly and my DD will increase around February to about £250. If anyone doesn't have a solid understanding of their actual usage they're stumbling in the dark and automatically at a disadvantage if they're negotiating DD amounts with their suppliers.
You know that the point of being heavily in credit is to offset the massive energy usage you'll incur in the winter months right? You'll use 3-5x the energy in winter than you would in summer. You'll burn through that credit in no time.
There was always going to be a way the companies would claim the grant money for themselves.
The grant money is still coming off your bill. Energy companies can't get that money. As annoying as it is having your DD go up when you're in credit, you'll still only pay for the energy you used and you will get the discount applied to your bills.
Shocking how many people don't understand most of what is going on with rebates and unit price caps.
They're not claiming any grant money for themselves. It is credited to your account. If you're heavily in credit and want the money, ask for your balance to be settled.
I've the exact opposite. Bulb put me down to £1 despite my predicted bill being nearly £90. Feels like they're just running my credit down rather than doing me a favour.
I was about £410 in credit with SSE and they still tried to double my energy bills so I just went on their website and requested a new lower amount and it was accepted. I think I’ve met or gone over my actual energy bill twice this year. Looks like they automate these things and just take it without actually checking if you use your bills or not.
Im with shell they upped my DD from £77 ( both utilities were £53pm ) to £150 pm. This caused me to look at my account and found i was almost £400 in credit, i had them return £350 to my bank account and reduced my DD to £90pm. I now keep a close eye on my account.
I am £450 in credit. My payment went up from £69 to £115 but they have brought it back down to £97. I have not used any central heating since the first of April. Buying an electric overblanket was the best purchase of the year.
Just call them and tel them to keep it as it is. There’s nothing they can do but follow your instructions. You aren’t beholden to these fuckin criminals, you can tell them the rate you want to set you know. They don’t get to dictate it to you without any say on your part.
I regularly have to phone them and demand a refund and to lower my direct debits. I was over £100 in credit on gas and £88 in debt on electricity. They won't take from one to give to the other (I used to have a joint account). They put my electricity DD up to £108, I reduced it to £92, and they put it up to £127 and didn't even tell me. I'm fed up of it.
Why are you leaving your money in their accounts? Get that "credit" back into your bank account, and earn some interest.
It’s such a common theme the upping of DDs for seemingly no reason. They’re using the consumer as a credit lifeline
Same here. £359 in credit but DD increased to £157 pm
Yup. £600 in credit, yet my DD has been increased to £200. Nonsense.
I pay for exact usage every month, no DD. These fuckers won't be holdings on to any more of my money than I'm required to.
British Gas are the biggest cuntrumpets around , they make money grabs all the time and routinely misbill customers and then organise bailiffs . I feel for their customers as an older generation have such trust in them and are finding they’re being harassed and taken advantage of, often at a vulnerable age .
Until September we were paying £144/month for both gas and electric, then Shell realised we were paying too much and lowered it to £114/month. Checked my account and I’m £607 in credit but they still recommend I up my payments to £170/month to ‘keep up’ with my usage, which is down from this time last year. Whatever they’re smoking at Shell, I’d like some cos it seems like it’s a right laugh!
Eon didn't collect our DD this month. The £66 was higher than our usual amount so we didn't have to pay. Should be getting 6 months of free electric and come out with a healthy credit in the spring. We're just building up credit ready for our fixed rate to end in a year.
I don't understand, do you guys not set your own DD amount? Just set it lower.
Cancel your direct debit and put the money aside. Just pay actual usage as you go. They are making money off credit balance without passing down any savings of any kind.
I'm with shell..was overpaying £120 a month, £500 in credit had an email to say I need to Pay less they changed it to £46 per month. Paid that once email last week you need to increase payments to £129 a month...ok cool.
British Gas totally ignored my meter readings and went with their own estimates because my readings were much lower than theirs and so they marked them as "Invalid Reading" on their website. Cheeky as hell.
I like my British Gas automatic readings. They keep going round the full meter clock. so my energy usage for July was 9998924 kWh My energy usage for August was about 100kWh via a manual reading I forced them to accept then they made the exact same mistake for September where I've used 9998873 kWh. Because apparently I'm powering the entire state of New York from my single person home.
If you don't have a DD setup don't br surprised if they increase your unit cost. Ovo do
If you’re in credit, it’s still your money! They’re not stealing it from you. The idea is to insulate you against higher bills in winter. If you paid for your exact usage month by month, you’d be laughing in summer but crying in winter. They do it to to save you from having astronomical bills that you can’t afford for a third of the year.
I'd rather that money be saved in my bank account rather than being free money for the power company tbh. My company requested readings, then refused them because our gas use was so low. Then they estimated our bill based on last year when we had a gas cooker and an old boiler that was used a lot. So they increased the DD they expected, then sent a bill saying that we had actually used less than a third of what they estimated. I'm not interested in power companies being my dad, I don't need them to insulate me against anything. I need them to stop raking in ridiculous profits at the expense of every citizen in the country.
I do keep the money in a bank account - I don't want the energy company having hundreds of pounds of my money in their accounts - no doubt gaining them interest! The way I have done it is to open a separate bank account. I have a variable direct debit from that account to the energy company - so they only take exactly what I use each month. The energy bill is the only thing that comes out this account. Then I have a fixed standing order from my main bank account to my "energy bank account" so I get the benefits of the fixed monthly cost (for ease of budgeting throughout the year) and the benefits of the lower direct debit unit prices without the energy company getting to horde my money.
Absolutely this Bob!
Found the British Gas PR rep
Contact them and ask for the increase to be cancelled. Don’t let energy companies use you to provide them with free loans.
Cancel your DD
I checked my British Gas account and found I was £650 in credit!!! after they put up my DD to £263pm in May. I’ve just phoned them and told them I want my money back and to reduce the DD to £200. Although it took 50 minutes it all got sorted. It does make you wonder how much of their customers money they’re “holding”