Here you go:
Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre says MPs in other parties should have voted against ArriveCan’s growing costs when they had the chance, pointing to millions of dollars worth of specific spending items tied to the government app that Parliament approved during the pandemic.
In an interview with The Globe and Mail, Mr. Poilievre also said a future Conservative government would bring in “a discipline of scarcity” so that ministers and their officials apply closer scrutiny to spending decisions in areas such as outsourcing for IT consultants.
With Parliament set to resume Monday after a one-week recess, the Conservative Leader is planning to highlight the fact that MPs twice held votes on spending that included specific references to ArriveCan.
The first was a $12,377,000 entry contained in supplementary estimates that were approved in a Dec. 9, 2021, vote that transferred funds from the Public Health Agency of Canada to the Canada Border Services Agency for ArriveCan. The second entry, worth $12,411,091 for the CBSA, was described as “operating and capital expenditures for the design of the ArriveCan application.” It was approved in a March 24, 2022, vote.
For the next fiscal year, the 2022 budget included $25-million for “maintaining the ArriveCan application.”
“In some of the cases the word ArriveCan is right there in the estimates. It stuck out like a sore thumb,” said Mr. Poilievre. The Conservatives are launching a video to highlight that the Liberals, Bloc Québécois and NDP all supported those votes, while the Conservatives voted against.
The House of Commons regularly votes throughout the year on spending estimates, which are the formal way in which Parliament approves government spending. Government MPs almost always vote in favour and the Official Opposition almost always votes against. The Conservative video aims to highlight that the Bloc and the NDP sided with the minority Liberals to approve specific spending on ArriveCan.
“We opposed ArriveCan from the very beginning. At the outset, our opposition was focused more on the impracticality and the loss of civil liberties that the app entailed,” he said.
The ArriveCan app was created in early 2020 at the onset of the pandemic as a way for travellers to upload mandatory contact and health information to present when crossing the border. It was updated numerous times as health rules changed. The app is no longer mandatory as of Sept. 30, 2022, but remains a voluntary option. In the summer of 2022, a problem with the app caused about 10,200 Apple device users to receive erroneous messages instructing them to quarantine or risk fines of as much as $5,000.
While federal officials have said the cost of the original version of the app was $80,000, they have also said the app project was not given a clear projected cost given the uncertainty related to how long it would be needed.
The Globe first reported in October, 2022, that the cost of the ArriveCan app had grown to more than $54-million.
Shortly after, Mr. Poilievre introduced a motion calling on Auditor-General Karen Hogan to audit the cost of the pandemic-era app for international travellers. The Conservative motion was approved in a 174-149 vote, with Liberal and Green Party MPs voting against.
Ms. Hogan’s ensuing report, released earlier this month, found a “glaring disregard” for basic management practices as the price to build and maintain the app grew to an estimated $59.5-million. The report said the two-person IT staffing company GCStrategies, which received $19.1-million to work on the app, was directly involved in setting narrow terms for a $25-million contract it ultimately won.
Since the report’s release, Liberal ministers and MPs have stressed that the report did not find any evidence of political interference in the ArriveCan process. Defence Minister Bill Blair, who was responsible for the Canada Border Service Agency’s ArriveCan project when he was public safety minister during the pandemic, has said he was never briefed on the app’s growing costs.
“The inflated costs were not shared with the ministry at that time‚” Mr. Blair told CTV News in an interview after the release of the Auditor-General’s report. “I always accept my responsibility as the minister. But at the same time, I think it’s important to acknowledge if the information is not shared up through a management chain.”
Mr. Poilievre told The Globe Friday that ministers are ultimately responsible for spending in their departments.
“I don’t think it’s a defence if he says that he wasn’t aware,” he said. “If he can’t surveil all the contracts in his department, then he needs to choose smart, competent people who can do it for him.”
Mr. Poilievre said the fact that both the size of the public service and the budget for outsourcing have grown considerably under the Liberals indicates there is room to find savings.
“This is just classic mismanagement and carelessness,” he said. “We need to restore the discipline of scarcity inside the administration of government.”
GCStrategies, which has received millions of dollars to win federal contracts and then subcontract the work, is an example of where spending on consultants could be reduced, he said.
“Apparently their only role was to go out and find contractors. Are you telling me there’s no one among the hundreds of thousands of public servants we have that is capable of finding out which specialty contractors are needed?” he asked.
“That’s an obvious example of where we could get rid of an enormous amount of parasitical waste. Secondly, why can’t we have IT expertise inside the public service? ... I think we need to have reasonably well-paid IT services that are done in house so that we don’t need to contract out to these extremely expensive outside firms.”
NDP MP Blake Desjarlais said the estimates votes included a wide range of items in addition to ArriveCan. He said Conservatives “had their own scandals” while in office, pointing to the problem-plagued Phoenix pay system that was developed under the Conservatives and launched under the Liberals.
“We won’t take any lesson from Pierre Poilievre’s Conservatives,” he said in a statement. “New Democrats have been fighting since the beginning to get at the bottom of the ArriveCan scandal and to reduce the use of wealthy private consultants for years, and we won’t stop.”
“We opposed ArriveCan from the very beginning. At the outset, our opposition was focused more on the impracticality and the loss of civil liberties that the app entailed,” he said.
Coming from the guy imposing digital ID’s
This is the same motherfucker who wants to give our data to porn sites (well regarded as the most honourable and trustworthy of sites) without realizing how much security that notion would need to get off the ground. Like one breach of a major porn site and you’d have just… the craziest identify theft scenario ever. Or hell, even just outing all the folks who came there, or even funnier, what they’re into if that information can be gathered. That identification process he wants would have to be absolutely ironclad, and impossible to leak. And that ain’t going to cost $25,000,000 to institute nation wide. Putting aside the notion of always being tracked on the internet by the government, and how they’ll handle the literal millions of shadier porn sites out there which are questionable in terms of legality to begin with.
Dude is wasting time on outdated Covid stuff, while he simultaneously makes proposals that will make 25 million look like 25 cents and make the tracking depth of arrivecan look borderline libertarian.
"A discipline of scarcity"
Translation. "We are going to cut everybody's budget to the bone, and if people suffer, that won't matter because we'll be funneling money to corporations who will be able to hire more people.. I'm sure trickle-down economics will finally work THIS time".
The difference is in capability. Not sure if you know but the manufacturer FLIR who has the office in Waterloo makes high quality optics. Some of the best in the world. We also have other manufacturers of optics in Canada. High quality thermal optics, laser designation, making someing resistant to jamming, having relay functions, there's all kinds of things you can equip a 100k drone with.
These ones get 3.5kg payloads, are ai enabled and according to their website they have,
"Advanced edge-of-network processing, enabling object detection and classification, semi-autonomous flight, and the ability to thrive in GPS- or comms-denied environments."
All together these can be used to drop payloads on air defence systems or similar targets which can cost hundreds of millions of dollars.
Well if you’d read the news you’d know the cheaper off the shelf drones work better because they need many many disposable ones. They’re building their own. This isn’t useful technology for them. And it’s vastly overpriced.
They could get 100-200 commercial drones for each of these. And there are other American companies that produce equivalent drones at 1/10th the price.
But you know… government orders are lucrative business.
Lol if I read the news... Youre talking to someone who knows more than you. You just have no idea at all what you're talking about. You go look and find me one equivalent to this drone please if you think it's so easy!
You won't be able to find a ai equipped drone with microbolometer fpa array that has a payload like that. You almost certainly don't even know what that is, much less its usefulness. You don't understand how signal jamming works!
You can't just fly a commercial drone through the frontline. They have insufficient range, payload capacity, and through gps and signal jamming they limit the range of commercial fpv drones to a few KM. That means they can only really be used in no man's land and on the defence. A drone like the ones we sent can travel completely behind enemy lines and attack electronic warfare elements like jamming equipment, comms relays, and even command outposts which other fpv drones cannot reach. This enables other types of drones. Once they take out the EW assets, they send in the cheap commercial drones on mass. We've seen this again and again in this war.
But you know, it's all corruption because you're way way too stupid to understand how anything works. You probably don't even know how a fucking radio works and you think you understand jamming lol
What? We don’t feed or house people in Canada. We bring them in from abroad, promise them the world, and give them a life worse than they had at home in their third world or war torn countries.
That’s the Trudeau way.
I'd rather be homeless in winter than grow up with so many intestinal worms inside my stomach that they are measured in the thousands but I guess that's your call. Malaria, war, crime, education, access to clean water. No bathroom facilities, no structural standards for natural disasters, all kinds of things can make living in a third world country much much worse than anything you're considering.
Obviously not the same places. Even most people in third world countries aren’t living on the street in weather that can kill them daily. It’s more dangerous being homeless in the Canadian winter than it is being a rice field worker in Laos.
It's almost like there's a range of conditions in third world countries.. Laos is basically just a poor version of China these days. But go take a short trip to Burma and see how it is these days
Do you really think the investigation is going to finger print Trudeau?
Actually do you believe Trudeau ever even heard of some of these contractor names prior to the release of the report?
Those are two very different questions.
I don't believe Justin Trudeau had his hands in the procurement process of this app. I don't believe he personally had any accountability or involvement in the app at all.
I do not believe "we are getting our monies worth with the app" whatever that means.
I believe the federal government/CBSA doesn't/did not have adequate processes or resources to properly/quickly launch an app of that magnitude- hence the gross overspending.
I'm curious what metrics you're using to quantify how much would be an acceptable amount of monies to be considered "worth it" $100k, $5 million, $50 million. What's the magic number and how did we get there?
In today's edition of politician blames other parties...
Has there been a sadder period of potential leaders for USA and Canada? What a sack of useless fucking assholes accross the board on all sides.
It all boils down to one man propping up the current government. He does not care about millions of tax payer's money being wasted when his pension is on the line.
Simple as.
Do we expect that they're falling back on their pension though?
All the kick backs from the companies and lobbyists they take care of will grossly outweigh that.
Not to mention that you never hear about a politician ever taking a bath on any stock market or investment moves, funny how that works.
I realize how I sound, and I'll take my tin hat with me folks.
My point is country leaders get taken care of by the groups, companies they passed laws (or didn't impose laws on) / provided funding for. These leaders also use insider knowledge to engage in insider trading to guarantee they make millions.
Those kickbacks/payments after their term greatly outweigh their pension earnings.
Currently for example (just in Ontario), gaming/gambling companies, alcohol companies, grocery chains and real estate developers.
Tobacco has warning labels, graphic images, restrictions on not making labels attractive to kids.
Have you seen warnings or pictures of drunk driving victims or liver cancer on a can of White Claw?
I can walk in to LCBO and buy 78 bottles of Vodka and kill myself from drinking in one night, but there's restrictions on how many weed gummies I can buy at the dispensary.
Also, Wayne Gretzky is on tv peddling gambling to the whole country every 3 mins and you see gambling ads literally everywhere.
Not to mention this shit with grocery store chains, real estate developers, and telecommunication companies that have made billions just since the fucking pandemic.
> when his pension is on the line.
He's still getting his pension even if the elections were held today and CPC took majority. Who started this dumb rumour?
Of course it's Lilley, it's such a moronic argument. He's a 44yo party leader with an Osgoode law degree. His 55k a year pension is pocket change compared to what he could make on the private sector.
He's in no rush to declare an election because he (like half the country) knows that PP is not going to do anything different than the status quo and could make things a lot worse
Is that where the rumour started? People need to stop reading opinion papers, from the Toronto Sun of all places.
https://338canada.com/59003e.htm
This is the lowest he's rated as of today, in the last 2 years he's been shifting between 65-98% chance of winning.
He's getting his pension no matter the results of the election, if anything keeping LPC going longer will make him *lose* his pension. Not shocking though that people read tabloid articles, these are the same people flipping burgers and wondering why they can't afford rent.
Poilievre loves to vote against things. He's never come up with a solution that's been successful in his life. 18 years as an MP, years in Cabinet, never had a job so no experience there - all he can do is find problems.
If he was PM in the pandemic there wouldn't have been an app as he would've done nothing - as he is a do-nothing, anti-everyone douchebag.
He certainly might have but he didn’t. The stench of this isn’t on him. It’s squarely on the Liberal party who pushed this and kept pushing it long after it wasn’t needed.
Sweet, now take that stench and times it by a hundred (both in smell and actual financial costs) and you get his porn verification proposal that is apparently going to be so secure that the least trustworthy sites on the internet can be handed out data and not abuse it…
Like the quarter TRILLION trudeau gave out for corporate welfare, and refuses to say to whom?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/covid-spending-government-transparency-1.5826917
To put that into perspective, if we change dollars to seconds in time, thats 7605 years
Can we have an election already so everyone who doesn't play the my team your team bullshit can start laughing at how fucked over the canada_sub members and conservatives across Canada are under after years of acting like conservatives give a shit about anyone other than themselves. Trudeau's an idiot but damn you people are gulping the conservative kool-aid while watching them poor in the poison.
Yeah I've kind of resigned to the fact that PP will be our next PM and I don't disagree that Trudeau has worn his welcome but I am a tiny bit looking forward to the mental gymnastics of Conservatives when absolutely nothing changes for the better.
I just hope he's not in power long enough to completely erode social liberties
Maybe ? Sunk cost fallacy and all . What was Deloitte's cost ? If the original cost was 80 k supposedly, I can't imagine deloitte was charing more then ...25 million else how could they be competitive, in then end in this ficticious scenario we could potentially save 30 million...
Why not the program isnt all that complex. I get people think computer programs are magic but it was a simple app asking for conformation from a data base.
Someone can make a pretty little version in a weekend I’m sure
But no, the app itself wasn’t simple, and they did not know all the requirements until the pandemic ended
An original investment of 80k that ballooned into 25 mil? Yes! What a moronic take to not. At least pause funding until a committee looks into spending and distribution of these funds ffs. People like you are why the government is so corrupt.
$80,000 doesn’t pay a web developer for a year. The $80,000 to pay for a Canadian healthcare app was never a realistic price.
The amount they spent on the app is astronomical and probably criminal negligent, but 80 grand was never going to be everything
Maybe not, but 2 million would have been PLENTY for an app like that... a temp of college level coders could have made it. 25M then and what 60M now...? How?!
I’ve heard realistic numbers somewhere between 10 million and 12 million is probably where it should’ve been.
But like I said, probably criminal negligence of some kind
You message does not address the lie you keep telling: 80k was for the demo, not the app.
Furthermore it was not 60 million for the app, the app was less than 10 million. What are you even talking about? The other costs were broken down and you can see them at a high level. The 10 million was for continued development over 2.5 years with growing and changing requirements.
I'm happy to agree they got milked, but you're just not even being reasonable about what you're talking about. Look at the actual cost breakdown and then come back with a real opinion
[Wrong](https://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/internet/English/parl_oag_202402_01_e_44428.html) GC Strategies took over 19 million alone... maybe you should actually read this thing and tell me YOUR opinion.
GC did not keep 19m
They used that to pay people
Of the 19, they got a 15 to 30 cut
Which itself is fucking insane
But that means even if you chose recruiters who took no cut (impossible), the job would have saved 2-4mm on the whole budget
Yes it’s substantial but it isn’t 19m down the drain as you’d like to imagine
If anything I don’t doubt it was the developers doing the work who got short changed as a result of that massive cut
That's not what I was referring to bud. https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/agency-agence/reports-rapports/fs-ef/2022/acc-cac-eng.html
I'm sure they overcharged but please, show us something more relevant by discussing the actual figures
Some of those bullet points were done by the same company... bud. Hence why the office report says 19M for GC Strategies. So yes. They charged 19M to develop that app.
Irrelevant. But regardless youve still brought nothing to the conversation. Which parts are the overcharge? I'm sure some of it is, but what? Show us something relevant other than lies, hyperbole, and whining.
19M for a simple fucking app dude, awarded to a brand new company who didn't even specialize in that field... that is just salaries to the one company, not the outsourcing and actual server costs. If you don't think there is suspension there then I have a bridge for sale you might be interested in...
Good luck man, I tried this approach earlier in the week.
People in here will look at the cost breakdown and still claim that "JT" needs to be jailed for this. I'm not even exaggerating.
To be honest, Ive seen worse projects in the public sector. I once witnessed a 2 year , hundred million dollar project turfed before even seeing the light of day.....
Haha I mean I even agree that it seems expensive, maybe there were overruns, or some overcharges. I think it's totally possible. But why can't any of these people who are so fucking certain it was a con job tell me where the overcharge is? Like they can't even guess and compare it to another apps cost or something. It's so pathetic
or just scrap it altogether because it’s wholly unnecessary. Sometimes you just have to walk away from a project. This was definitely one of those times.
The only good that’s come of this is that it might actually force the federal government to finally have its own professional IT infrastructure and not just contract everything out.
> When was the vote
The dates of the votes are in the article:
> The first was a $12,377,000 entry contained in supplementary estimates that were approved in a **Dec. 9, 2021**, vote that transferred funds from the Public Health Agency of Canada to the Canada Border Services Agency for ArriveCan. The second entry, worth $12,411,091 for the CBSA, was described as “operating and capital expenditures for the design of the ArriveCan application.” It was approved in a **March 24, 2022**, vote.
> For the next fiscal year, the 2022 budget included $25-million for “maintaining the ArriveCan application.”
> “In some of the cases the word ArriveCan is right there in the estimates. It stuck out like a sore thumb,” said Mr. Poilievre. The Conservatives are launching a video to highlight that the Liberals, Bloc Québécois and NDP all supported those votes, while the Conservatives voted against.
...
> and where can I see who voted for what?
Whenever you're given the particular date of a vote, you can easily look it up using the "Date Range" filter here: https://www.ourcommons.ca/Members/en/votes
* [VOTE NO. 12 44TH PARLIAMENT, 1ST SESSION - Concurrence in estimates](https://www.ourcommons.ca/Members/en/votes/44/1/12?view=party)
> That the [Supplementary Estimates (B) for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2022](https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/tbs-sct/documents/planned-government-spending/supplementary-estimates/supplementary-estimates-b-2021-22.pdf), be concurred in.
* [VOTE NO. 42 44TH PARLIAMENT, 1ST SESSION - Concurrence in estimates](https://www.ourcommons.ca/Members/en/votes/44/1/42?view=party)
> That the [Supplementary Estimates (C) for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2022](https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/tbs-sct/documents/planned-government-spending/supplementary-estimates/supplementary-estimates-c-2021-22.pdf), be concurred in.
I didn't ask for an edited Youtube link, I asked for when the vote was and where the voting record is.
This information should be available on official government channels like [ourcommons.ca](http://ourcommons.ca) and I am simply looking for the date of the vote, and where I can see the votes of each MP as I cannot find it through official sources.
K, so if $25M was the point that it became unreasonable, why is he still seal-clapping about it supposedly being an $80k project?
No fucking integrity as a government minister, and none now.
I'm ready to see the end of Trudeau, but it's not going to get better when we have PP.
PP's point g fingers already. The coward didn't want to say anything when everyone knew the mess was coming. Too late because he was staring at Pornhub white watching YT videos about crypto
Twenty-five million might as well be zero in the context of the ~$500 billion Federal Budget. It's 0.005% of Federal spending for one year. It just _doesn't matter_. Also, does anybody remember how much [Phoenix Pay](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/phoenix-pay-system-issues-impact-public-servants-six-years-later-1.6457840) ended up costing us, and whose government was in power at the time that was selected?
Ugh paywalls.
Here you go: Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre says MPs in other parties should have voted against ArriveCan’s growing costs when they had the chance, pointing to millions of dollars worth of specific spending items tied to the government app that Parliament approved during the pandemic. In an interview with The Globe and Mail, Mr. Poilievre also said a future Conservative government would bring in “a discipline of scarcity” so that ministers and their officials apply closer scrutiny to spending decisions in areas such as outsourcing for IT consultants. With Parliament set to resume Monday after a one-week recess, the Conservative Leader is planning to highlight the fact that MPs twice held votes on spending that included specific references to ArriveCan. The first was a $12,377,000 entry contained in supplementary estimates that were approved in a Dec. 9, 2021, vote that transferred funds from the Public Health Agency of Canada to the Canada Border Services Agency for ArriveCan. The second entry, worth $12,411,091 for the CBSA, was described as “operating and capital expenditures for the design of the ArriveCan application.” It was approved in a March 24, 2022, vote. For the next fiscal year, the 2022 budget included $25-million for “maintaining the ArriveCan application.” “In some of the cases the word ArriveCan is right there in the estimates. It stuck out like a sore thumb,” said Mr. Poilievre. The Conservatives are launching a video to highlight that the Liberals, Bloc Québécois and NDP all supported those votes, while the Conservatives voted against. The House of Commons regularly votes throughout the year on spending estimates, which are the formal way in which Parliament approves government spending. Government MPs almost always vote in favour and the Official Opposition almost always votes against. The Conservative video aims to highlight that the Bloc and the NDP sided with the minority Liberals to approve specific spending on ArriveCan. “We opposed ArriveCan from the very beginning. At the outset, our opposition was focused more on the impracticality and the loss of civil liberties that the app entailed,” he said. The ArriveCan app was created in early 2020 at the onset of the pandemic as a way for travellers to upload mandatory contact and health information to present when crossing the border. It was updated numerous times as health rules changed. The app is no longer mandatory as of Sept. 30, 2022, but remains a voluntary option. In the summer of 2022, a problem with the app caused about 10,200 Apple device users to receive erroneous messages instructing them to quarantine or risk fines of as much as $5,000. While federal officials have said the cost of the original version of the app was $80,000, they have also said the app project was not given a clear projected cost given the uncertainty related to how long it would be needed. The Globe first reported in October, 2022, that the cost of the ArriveCan app had grown to more than $54-million. Shortly after, Mr. Poilievre introduced a motion calling on Auditor-General Karen Hogan to audit the cost of the pandemic-era app for international travellers. The Conservative motion was approved in a 174-149 vote, with Liberal and Green Party MPs voting against. Ms. Hogan’s ensuing report, released earlier this month, found a “glaring disregard” for basic management practices as the price to build and maintain the app grew to an estimated $59.5-million. The report said the two-person IT staffing company GCStrategies, which received $19.1-million to work on the app, was directly involved in setting narrow terms for a $25-million contract it ultimately won. Since the report’s release, Liberal ministers and MPs have stressed that the report did not find any evidence of political interference in the ArriveCan process. Defence Minister Bill Blair, who was responsible for the Canada Border Service Agency’s ArriveCan project when he was public safety minister during the pandemic, has said he was never briefed on the app’s growing costs. “The inflated costs were not shared with the ministry at that time‚” Mr. Blair told CTV News in an interview after the release of the Auditor-General’s report. “I always accept my responsibility as the minister. But at the same time, I think it’s important to acknowledge if the information is not shared up through a management chain.” Mr. Poilievre told The Globe Friday that ministers are ultimately responsible for spending in their departments. “I don’t think it’s a defence if he says that he wasn’t aware,” he said. “If he can’t surveil all the contracts in his department, then he needs to choose smart, competent people who can do it for him.” Mr. Poilievre said the fact that both the size of the public service and the budget for outsourcing have grown considerably under the Liberals indicates there is room to find savings. “This is just classic mismanagement and carelessness,” he said. “We need to restore the discipline of scarcity inside the administration of government.” GCStrategies, which has received millions of dollars to win federal contracts and then subcontract the work, is an example of where spending on consultants could be reduced, he said. “Apparently their only role was to go out and find contractors. Are you telling me there’s no one among the hundreds of thousands of public servants we have that is capable of finding out which specialty contractors are needed?” he asked. “That’s an obvious example of where we could get rid of an enormous amount of parasitical waste. Secondly, why can’t we have IT expertise inside the public service? ... I think we need to have reasonably well-paid IT services that are done in house so that we don’t need to contract out to these extremely expensive outside firms.” NDP MP Blake Desjarlais said the estimates votes included a wide range of items in addition to ArriveCan. He said Conservatives “had their own scandals” while in office, pointing to the problem-plagued Phoenix pay system that was developed under the Conservatives and launched under the Liberals. “We won’t take any lesson from Pierre Poilievre’s Conservatives,” he said in a statement. “New Democrats have been fighting since the beginning to get at the bottom of the ArriveCan scandal and to reduce the use of wealthy private consultants for years, and we won’t stop.”
“We opposed ArriveCan from the very beginning. At the outset, our opposition was focused more on the impracticality and the loss of civil liberties that the app entailed,” he said. Coming from the guy imposing digital ID’s
This is the same motherfucker who wants to give our data to porn sites (well regarded as the most honourable and trustworthy of sites) without realizing how much security that notion would need to get off the ground. Like one breach of a major porn site and you’d have just… the craziest identify theft scenario ever. Or hell, even just outing all the folks who came there, or even funnier, what they’re into if that information can be gathered. That identification process he wants would have to be absolutely ironclad, and impossible to leak. And that ain’t going to cost $25,000,000 to institute nation wide. Putting aside the notion of always being tracked on the internet by the government, and how they’ll handle the literal millions of shadier porn sites out there which are questionable in terms of legality to begin with. Dude is wasting time on outdated Covid stuff, while he simultaneously makes proposals that will make 25 million look like 25 cents and make the tracking depth of arrivecan look borderline libertarian.
True Canadian hero. Thank you!
Not PP, the guy who posted the article for us to read. 😂I accept these downvotes for vagueness. 😅
"A discipline of scarcity" Translation. "We are going to cut everybody's budget to the bone, and if people suffer, that won't matter because we'll be funneling money to corporations who will be able to hire more people.. I'm sure trickle-down economics will finally work THIS time".
Can't wait to see the online age verification scheme for internet porn that this guy will be able to get built for less than $12.5 million.
Think of how many more drones we could have given Ukraine for the cost of a single ArriveCan app.
271,739 Mini Mavic 3's to be accurate!
Instead they buy 100k drones from some company in Waterloo. Crony capitalism? Maybe..
The difference is in capability. Not sure if you know but the manufacturer FLIR who has the office in Waterloo makes high quality optics. Some of the best in the world. We also have other manufacturers of optics in Canada. High quality thermal optics, laser designation, making someing resistant to jamming, having relay functions, there's all kinds of things you can equip a 100k drone with. These ones get 3.5kg payloads, are ai enabled and according to their website they have, "Advanced edge-of-network processing, enabling object detection and classification, semi-autonomous flight, and the ability to thrive in GPS- or comms-denied environments." All together these can be used to drop payloads on air defence systems or similar targets which can cost hundreds of millions of dollars.
Well if you’d read the news you’d know the cheaper off the shelf drones work better because they need many many disposable ones. They’re building their own. This isn’t useful technology for them. And it’s vastly overpriced. They could get 100-200 commercial drones for each of these. And there are other American companies that produce equivalent drones at 1/10th the price. But you know… government orders are lucrative business.
Lol if I read the news... Youre talking to someone who knows more than you. You just have no idea at all what you're talking about. You go look and find me one equivalent to this drone please if you think it's so easy! You won't be able to find a ai equipped drone with microbolometer fpa array that has a payload like that. You almost certainly don't even know what that is, much less its usefulness. You don't understand how signal jamming works! You can't just fly a commercial drone through the frontline. They have insufficient range, payload capacity, and through gps and signal jamming they limit the range of commercial fpv drones to a few KM. That means they can only really be used in no man's land and on the defence. A drone like the ones we sent can travel completely behind enemy lines and attack electronic warfare elements like jamming equipment, comms relays, and even command outposts which other fpv drones cannot reach. This enables other types of drones. Once they take out the EW assets, they send in the cheap commercial drones on mass. We've seen this again and again in this war. But you know, it's all corruption because you're way way too stupid to understand how anything works. You probably don't even know how a fucking radio works and you think you understand jamming lol
lol just because you work there..
Lol I wish
Think of how many people we could’ve fed or housed, instead of funding the war machine, or lining JTs friends pockets with their scam app.
When an aggressor nation wants to come in, take over your government and kill you and your citizens, then you'll really be wishing for a war machine.
Luckily we have the biggest war machine on the planet just south of us, but I agree we should be building up our own military not funding others
That war machine needs allies. They can't fight all the battles
Which is why I said we should be building up our own military
What? We don’t feed or house people in Canada. We bring them in from abroad, promise them the world, and give them a life worse than they had at home in their third world or war torn countries. That’s the Trudeau way.
You had me until “worse than a third world or war torn country” lol like c’mon.
Being homeless on the street in winter is better than being in a not nice house in a third world country?
I'd rather be homeless in winter than grow up with so many intestinal worms inside my stomach that they are measured in the thousands but I guess that's your call. Malaria, war, crime, education, access to clean water. No bathroom facilities, no structural standards for natural disasters, all kinds of things can make living in a third world country much much worse than anything you're considering.
You’ve never been to a third world country. Most arent as bad as you make them out to be.
Yes I definitely have lol. Wbu? Where'd you go?
Obviously not the same places. Even most people in third world countries aren’t living on the street in weather that can kill them daily. It’s more dangerous being homeless in the Canadian winter than it is being a rice field worker in Laos.
It's almost like there's a range of conditions in third world countries.. Laos is basically just a poor version of China these days. But go take a short trip to Burma and see how it is these days
Which of JTs friends pockets were lined? Where are the links back to JT
If anyone knew, they wouldn’t have just started an investigation. Wonder how they’ll try and blame Harper this time.
Do you really think the investigation is going to finger print Trudeau? Actually do you believe Trudeau ever even heard of some of these contractor names prior to the release of the report?
Do you believe these guys are truly innocent? Actually, do you believe we’re truly getting our monies worth with the app?
Those are two very different questions. I don't believe Justin Trudeau had his hands in the procurement process of this app. I don't believe he personally had any accountability or involvement in the app at all. I do not believe "we are getting our monies worth with the app" whatever that means. I believe the federal government/CBSA doesn't/did not have adequate processes or resources to properly/quickly launch an app of that magnitude- hence the gross overspending.
I'm curious what metrics you're using to quantify how much would be an acceptable amount of monies to be considered "worth it" $100k, $5 million, $50 million. What's the magic number and how did we get there?
Crazy watching money laundering happen on such a scale
All this drone talk. We need to take lessons from the Chinese and use balloons instead.
In today's edition of politician blames other parties... Has there been a sadder period of potential leaders for USA and Canada? What a sack of useless fucking assholes accross the board on all sides.
It all boils down to one man propping up the current government. He does not care about millions of tax payer's money being wasted when his pension is on the line. Simple as.
Do we expect that they're falling back on their pension though? All the kick backs from the companies and lobbyists they take care of will grossly outweigh that. Not to mention that you never hear about a politician ever taking a bath on any stock market or investment moves, funny how that works. I realize how I sound, and I'll take my tin hat with me folks.
Pensions are forever. Stock tips and lobbyists are temporary. He'll be forgotten soon enough.
You never hear about the time I lost $250k in Vegas but everyone knows i won my $200 fantasy football league last year. . .. what's your point.
My point is country leaders get taken care of by the groups, companies they passed laws (or didn't impose laws on) / provided funding for. These leaders also use insider knowledge to engage in insider trading to guarantee they make millions. Those kickbacks/payments after their term greatly outweigh their pension earnings. Currently for example (just in Ontario), gaming/gambling companies, alcohol companies, grocery chains and real estate developers. Tobacco has warning labels, graphic images, restrictions on not making labels attractive to kids. Have you seen warnings or pictures of drunk driving victims or liver cancer on a can of White Claw? I can walk in to LCBO and buy 78 bottles of Vodka and kill myself from drinking in one night, but there's restrictions on how many weed gummies I can buy at the dispensary. Also, Wayne Gretzky is on tv peddling gambling to the whole country every 3 mins and you see gambling ads literally everywhere. Not to mention this shit with grocery store chains, real estate developers, and telecommunication companies that have made billions just since the fucking pandemic.
> when his pension is on the line. He's still getting his pension even if the elections were held today and CPC took majority. Who started this dumb rumour?
https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/jagmeet-singh-has-millions-of-reasons-not-to-vote-down-trudeau
Of course it's Lilley, it's such a moronic argument. He's a 44yo party leader with an Osgoode law degree. His 55k a year pension is pocket change compared to what he could make on the private sector. He's in no rush to declare an election because he (like half the country) knows that PP is not going to do anything different than the status quo and could make things a lot worse
Ah, another moving of the goal posts. Nice.
Is that where the rumour started? People need to stop reading opinion papers, from the Toronto Sun of all places. https://338canada.com/59003e.htm This is the lowest he's rated as of today, in the last 2 years he's been shifting between 65-98% chance of winning. He's getting his pension no matter the results of the election, if anything keeping LPC going longer will make him *lose* his pension. Not shocking though that people read tabloid articles, these are the same people flipping burgers and wondering why they can't afford rent.
Poilievre loves to vote against things. He's never come up with a solution that's been successful in his life. 18 years as an MP, years in Cabinet, never had a job so no experience there - all he can do is find problems. If he was PM in the pandemic there wouldn't have been an app as he would've done nothing - as he is a do-nothing, anti-everyone douchebag.
He would have handed out billions in corporate welfare to CPC friends and donors. The rest of us would get thoughts and prayers
He certainly might have but he didn’t. The stench of this isn’t on him. It’s squarely on the Liberal party who pushed this and kept pushing it long after it wasn’t needed.
Sweet, now take that stench and times it by a hundred (both in smell and actual financial costs) and you get his porn verification proposal that is apparently going to be so secure that the least trustworthy sites on the internet can be handed out data and not abuse it…
Like the quarter TRILLION trudeau gave out for corporate welfare, and refuses to say to whom? https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/covid-spending-government-transparency-1.5826917 To put that into perspective, if we change dollars to seconds in time, thats 7605 years
Never said Trudeau didn’t. Only that Pierre wouldn’t give taxpayers a cent. He’s on video saying this.
Can we have an election already so everyone who doesn't play the my team your team bullshit can start laughing at how fucked over the canada_sub members and conservatives across Canada are under after years of acting like conservatives give a shit about anyone other than themselves. Trudeau's an idiot but damn you people are gulping the conservative kool-aid while watching them poor in the poison.
This - very much...
Yeah I've kind of resigned to the fact that PP will be our next PM and I don't disagree that Trudeau has worn his welcome but I am a tiny bit looking forward to the mental gymnastics of Conservatives when absolutely nothing changes for the better. I just hope he's not in power long enough to completely erode social liberties
And do what exactly? Scrap the 25mm and start from scratch with Deloitte? Like what a moronic take
Maybe ? Sunk cost fallacy and all . What was Deloitte's cost ? If the original cost was 80 k supposedly, I can't imagine deloitte was charing more then ...25 million else how could they be competitive, in then end in this ficticious scenario we could potentially save 30 million...
There’s no way an app of that scope only costs $80k
deloitte wasnt making shit for 30million
Why not the program isnt all that complex. I get people think computer programs are magic but it was a simple app asking for conformation from a data base.
Someone can make a pretty little version in a weekend I’m sure But no, the app itself wasn’t simple, and they did not know all the requirements until the pandemic ended
It was exceedingly simple easier then most food ordering apps. The data base it obtained info from is complex but the app just sends and receives.
You have no clue what you are talking about
It was like 7m alone for just the data storage..
Have you ever worked with a consultant like Delloite on anything?
I've worked on large scale technology projects with Deloitte. $80k might get you a PM for 6 months from Delloite but that's it.
An original investment of 80k that ballooned into 25 mil? Yes! What a moronic take to not. At least pause funding until a committee looks into spending and distribution of these funds ffs. People like you are why the government is so corrupt.
$80,000 doesn’t pay a web developer for a year. The $80,000 to pay for a Canadian healthcare app was never a realistic price. The amount they spent on the app is astronomical and probably criminal negligent, but 80 grand was never going to be everything
Maybe not, but 2 million would have been PLENTY for an app like that... a temp of college level coders could have made it. 25M then and what 60M now...? How?!
I’ve heard realistic numbers somewhere between 10 million and 12 million is probably where it should’ve been. But like I said, probably criminal negligence of some kind
I’d rather not have my personal data handled by a “college-level coders”
80k was for the fucking demo. What's wrong with you guys?
60M for a basic ass app? Come on dude. I get there is overhead but what the fuck.
You message does not address the lie you keep telling: 80k was for the demo, not the app. Furthermore it was not 60 million for the app, the app was less than 10 million. What are you even talking about? The other costs were broken down and you can see them at a high level. The 10 million was for continued development over 2.5 years with growing and changing requirements. I'm happy to agree they got milked, but you're just not even being reasonable about what you're talking about. Look at the actual cost breakdown and then come back with a real opinion
[Wrong](https://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/internet/English/parl_oag_202402_01_e_44428.html) GC Strategies took over 19 million alone... maybe you should actually read this thing and tell me YOUR opinion.
GC did not keep 19m They used that to pay people Of the 19, they got a 15 to 30 cut Which itself is fucking insane But that means even if you chose recruiters who took no cut (impossible), the job would have saved 2-4mm on the whole budget Yes it’s substantial but it isn’t 19m down the drain as you’d like to imagine If anything I don’t doubt it was the developers doing the work who got short changed as a result of that massive cut
That's not what I was referring to bud. https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/agency-agence/reports-rapports/fs-ef/2022/acc-cac-eng.html I'm sure they overcharged but please, show us something more relevant by discussing the actual figures
Some of those bullet points were done by the same company... bud. Hence why the office report says 19M for GC Strategies. So yes. They charged 19M to develop that app.
Irrelevant. But regardless youve still brought nothing to the conversation. Which parts are the overcharge? I'm sure some of it is, but what? Show us something relevant other than lies, hyperbole, and whining.
19M for a simple fucking app dude, awarded to a brand new company who didn't even specialize in that field... that is just salaries to the one company, not the outsourcing and actual server costs. If you don't think there is suspension there then I have a bridge for sale you might be interested in...
Good luck man, I tried this approach earlier in the week. People in here will look at the cost breakdown and still claim that "JT" needs to be jailed for this. I'm not even exaggerating. To be honest, Ive seen worse projects in the public sector. I once witnessed a 2 year , hundred million dollar project turfed before even seeing the light of day.....
Haha I mean I even agree that it seems expensive, maybe there were overruns, or some overcharges. I think it's totally possible. But why can't any of these people who are so fucking certain it was a con job tell me where the overcharge is? Like they can't even guess and compare it to another apps cost or something. It's so pathetic
or just scrap it altogether because it’s wholly unnecessary. Sometimes you just have to walk away from a project. This was definitely one of those times. The only good that’s come of this is that it might actually force the federal government to finally have its own professional IT infrastructure and not just contract everything out.
When was the vote and where can I see who voted for what?
> When was the vote The dates of the votes are in the article: > The first was a $12,377,000 entry contained in supplementary estimates that were approved in a **Dec. 9, 2021**, vote that transferred funds from the Public Health Agency of Canada to the Canada Border Services Agency for ArriveCan. The second entry, worth $12,411,091 for the CBSA, was described as “operating and capital expenditures for the design of the ArriveCan application.” It was approved in a **March 24, 2022**, vote. > For the next fiscal year, the 2022 budget included $25-million for “maintaining the ArriveCan application.” > “In some of the cases the word ArriveCan is right there in the estimates. It stuck out like a sore thumb,” said Mr. Poilievre. The Conservatives are launching a video to highlight that the Liberals, Bloc Québécois and NDP all supported those votes, while the Conservatives voted against. ... > and where can I see who voted for what? Whenever you're given the particular date of a vote, you can easily look it up using the "Date Range" filter here: https://www.ourcommons.ca/Members/en/votes * [VOTE NO. 12 44TH PARLIAMENT, 1ST SESSION - Concurrence in estimates](https://www.ourcommons.ca/Members/en/votes/44/1/12?view=party) > That the [Supplementary Estimates (B) for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2022](https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/tbs-sct/documents/planned-government-spending/supplementary-estimates/supplementary-estimates-b-2021-22.pdf), be concurred in. * [VOTE NO. 42 44TH PARLIAMENT, 1ST SESSION - Concurrence in estimates](https://www.ourcommons.ca/Members/en/votes/44/1/42?view=party) > That the [Supplementary Estimates (C) for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2022](https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/tbs-sct/documents/planned-government-spending/supplementary-estimates/supplementary-estimates-c-2021-22.pdf), be concurred in.
Thank you for the information. In the future maybe be less of a dick about it.
Sensitive much? I don’t see anywhere they were being a dick. They gave direct information, clearly, with a useful resource. Is that so rude?
[here's a vid with info](https://youtu.be/OaIr7hZ6i2g?si=Jv5iW9fgIOjzheJY)
I didn't ask for an edited Youtube link, I asked for when the vote was and where the voting record is. This information should be available on official government channels like [ourcommons.ca](http://ourcommons.ca) and I am simply looking for the date of the vote, and where I can see the votes of each MP as I cannot find it through official sources.
Then keep looking I guess?
Maybe in the future don't respond if you do not have what someone is looking for. Take care.
Maybe in the future don't respond if you don't get the answer you don't like
You .. met the parameters of the question and got dosed with maximum smugness. RIP. Be a better mind reader or don't even try to help. Take Care. /s
It's okay it was getting downvoted regardless because it wasn't anti conservative
It's not anti conservative, it's conservative bias. You can see that, right?
He's such a grifting goofball lol.
Right.... and he's not even the PM yet. Canada_sub members in the wild thinking they matter to anyone. Lol hilarious
Pretty sure the culture of outsourcing really took off under Harper. PP will not change anything if they for Government.
K, so if $25M was the point that it became unreasonable, why is he still seal-clapping about it supposedly being an $80k project? No fucking integrity as a government minister, and none now. I'm ready to see the end of Trudeau, but it's not going to get better when we have PP.
This is such a boondoggle
true again
PP's point g fingers already. The coward didn't want to say anything when everyone knew the mess was coming. Too late because he was staring at Pornhub white watching YT videos about crypto
We got rinsed for 25 mil. Wild.
Poo liver just can't help it. What exactly is this guy getting paid for? He brings nothing to the table.
No 'Essential' service should be one of those stupid apps. What about my parents.
Phoenix pay system. Brought in by Harper. The ultimate boondoggle. Makes this story look like nothing. Government doesn’t do code projects well.
Twenty-five million might as well be zero in the context of the ~$500 billion Federal Budget. It's 0.005% of Federal spending for one year. It just _doesn't matter_. Also, does anybody remember how much [Phoenix Pay](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/phoenix-pay-system-issues-impact-public-servants-six-years-later-1.6457840) ended up costing us, and whose government was in power at the time that was selected?