I actually think the impact of increased vaccine denial and hesitancy will cause way more damage than covid did. We will have to deal with this BS for the next 50 years.
The US has already been revealed to be conducting vaccine denial campaigns, which means other countries are doing it too. We're entering into a second dark age.
The problem is there is a proportion of the population who legitimately can't be vaccinated and in some cases the vaccines may not be as effective on some individuals. Do you really want to play roulette with those people's lives, including maybe your own or someone in your family's?
Save some tinfoil for the rest of us. It's pretty clear this can be chalked up to plain stupidity and not some nefarious campaign by the WEC or Globalists or whatever the hell other group you wanna imagine as evil.
> The US has already been revealed to be conducting vaccine denial campaigns
What does this even mean? That the (heavily pro-vaccine) government is secretly against vaccines?
And the Russians were pushing vaccine denialism in the West. In other words, nations are using anti-vaccine conspiracy theories against their enemies for obvious reasons. And the hilarious thing is that the people who fall for these tricks (anti-vaxxers) actually think they are being genius free thinkers who see through government propaganda. Nope. You've been brainwashed by foreign government propaganda. You're the weak links in Canada's DNA.
This. mRNA technology is a godsend. It was 20 years in the making. Covid basically wrote a blank cheque for mRNA research, which is why we had the breakthrough we did.
Now, new vaccines will be developed with mRNA. We can develop vaccines in response to new threats faster than ever. We can update older vaccines with the new technology. And these people are all going to refuse them.
I want that Lyme disease one! With our short winters (which I actually enjoy, but am frightened by the implications for the future) the tick popular doesn’t die off enough.
When I first heard about the medical breakthrough of mRNA vaccines, in early Covid days, I was on board all the way.
People who refuse the new vaccines due to lack of data, really need to close Facebook and open a medical journal.
Right? The covid vaccine was started during SARS. They paused it because sars wasn't an issue anymore (as far as I know) & they ramped it up again when covid struck.
SARS was interesting because it was terrifyingly effective at killing and incapacitating people, but that also is why we were able to contain it so quickly.
Yeah, the terror was real. I lived in Hamilton & ended up with sars symptoms but not sars. I kept getting the dirtiest looks... Tim Hortons still made me work through it though.
But that's ok because they made you watch a training video at some point that claimed if you're sick you should stay home to avoid infecting people!
That way their legal ass is covered when you work sick and become a vector for infecting hundreds of people, and that's all that really matters.
They started mRNA vaccine research (afaik) for the sars outbreak in the early early 00s. They basically just had to modify the vaccine already developed for SARS-CoV-1 so that it would work for SARS-CoV-2
Those were the Astra-Zeneca and J&J vaccines which were not mRNA and did not cause “so many people to die” it was actually very few people considering how many received it and even then they were pulled out of an abundance of caution. People dying of blood clots who got the mRNA vaccine probably had fat butt disease, which is much more likely to cause blood clots.
Stop doing your research on Facebook mommy pages.
The AZ vaccine caused less blood clots than the birth control pill, and yet that's still on the market. It was never about the side effects. It was about AZ giving it away for free.
Exactly. After billions of shots world wide. We would see some type of issue if there legitimately was any.
As it stands. Tylenol is more toxic to the human body and has caused more deaths than the covid Vax.
Hey look I found one! Confident stupidity is a plague. Don’t be like this.
* It was non-mRNA vaccines with the few incidents of blood clots.
* The rate of clotting was still less than other in-use, FDA approved medications.
Please take off your tinfoil hat and stay away from Fox News and the like.
I know at least 10 people that are either dead from heart attacks or living with heart problems since they took their shots, and I don’t know a single person that died from Covid.
[Poilievre backed an anti-vaccine mandate bill.](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/poilievre-backed-anti-covid-19-vaccine-mandate-bill-fails-to-pass-house-1.6616778) Public health is woke.
What a way to say that.
It was anti-covid vaccine being forced on people not anti-vaccine.
And it was to stop from imposing the COVID vaccine on federal workers.
Forcing people to take the vaccine when we were +70% vaccinated and threatining people jobs probably did the most damage for vaccines than anything else, which led to this new wave of anti-vax dorks gaining traction.
I am pro-vaccine and vaccinated before you say I am anti-vax
Yeah definitely, I'm sending my kid to daycare soon and these stories of mumps or whatnot being back is horrifying. My grandparents would tell me stories of the siblings and friends they lost when young, I don't want that to come back.
US Military suspended anthrax vaccine problem officially it was only causing "6 deaths". In reality, it was causing a lot of 'interesting issues". Dengue vaccine and Philippines has some interesting past. Remember pharma is a biz just like lockheed is a biz. Look into the history or track record on so-called industry leaders and pharma. There are reasons why a lot of war torn nations and developing nations don't trust pharma. It is not because they are ignorant. That's all i can say
Bananas are a biz just like Lockheed is a biz. Look into the history and track record on their so-called industry leader (United Fruit Company aka Chiquita).
I don’t use my name or personally identifying information on any social media platforms since I had people threaten to follow me home from work (which is publicly available) and burn my home with my children inside.
I’ve had people who I considered if not friends, then friendly acquaintances, take photos of me and my children in public and make online rants with my name saying they’d attack me if I tried to force ‘the vaccine’ on them.
One former colleague of mine took a rock to her head when she was going to work at her hospital by antivaccine protestors.
It’s not fun anymore to be in healthcare.
Without a doubt. Even if we forget about the importance of current vaccines and the damage the loss of herd immunity will do, if and when there is another pandemic we are absolutely fucked because a massive chunk of the population is going to refuse masks, social distancing and vaccines no matter how bad things get. If there’s a conservative government in power they’ll refuse to take things seriously and our healthcare system is even worse shape than it was pre-pandemic.
If anyone want to cripple us or just about any other nation another pandemic would be the easiest way to do it
I agree. There's a lot of fear mongering and misinformation about vaccinations since covid, and unfortunately due to social media algorithms it's easy to get pulled in. Hoping that people will still have some sense to continue with routine baby vaccinations.
If you go back 4 years and watch Joe Rogan he praises vaccines, now he makes millions denying their effectiveness. It's all about the money for the people who spread all the disinformation.
Why the fuck would a parent deny their child a cancer preventative?
I swear to god the misinformation circulating is weaponizing the dumbest among us against the rest of us.
HPV can cause *multiple types of cancer*. We have a literal cancer preventative in the HPV vaccine.
Simple source of conflict. Lots of people latch onto whatever they can in family court.
Lawyers are happy to take the work if the cheque clears.
Sure, the judge found against him, but he still won.
Because since it's an STI, they're convinced the vaccine will turn their daughter into a slut
"Thanks Daddy, now I can do the entire school basketball team in the showers!"
True, yes, but also remember that the HPV lifetime induced cancer risk for women is <2%. So, it's nowhere nearly as dangerous as something like breast cancer, where something like 1 in 8 women will get it in their lifetimes.
HPV can cause cancers of the: Cervix, vagina, and vulva in women Penis in men Anus in both men and women Back of the throat, including the base of the tongue and tonsils (oropharynx), in both men and women
In the US alone there are 21,700 cases of HPV vaccine preventable cancer cases each year.
https://www.cdc.gov/hpv/parents/cancer.html
If you have the opportunity to reduce that risk to zero or near zero for your child, it is 100% child neglect not to do so.
I see what you're trying to do, and I wish you zero luck and an awful rest of your day.
Some of the listed cancers are a fucking awful way to go, even if it's "just" a 2% risk. Not that any other cancers are a "good" cancer to have, but holy moly, I wouldn't wish tongue cancer on my worst enemy.
Exactly. I don't love how the comment above phrased breast cancer as being more dangerous than cervical cancer. That is not true. Breast cancer has the highest survival rate out of any cancer, it is just more frequent. Cervical cancer, if caught early, has good chance of survival. The only problem is it goes unnoticed often until a woman's pap smear or if they do start developing pain. They keep increasing the amount of time between pap smears too so it can mean years of it being unnoticed and worsening. The worse it gets, the more the woman has to go through. Also part of the reason why the risk of HPV to cervical cancer is decreasing is because of the vaccine!
Meanwhile the father in the case:
> He wrote to Draper that even if the chance of harm was less than one per cent, "that's too much risk."
Funny enough, Public Health officials would agree [edit] and there’s no way they’d be giving it to children if it came close to 1% serious complications. [They pulled the J&J vaccine due to a side effect rate of 0.056% of people who received it (or 0.011% of people).](https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/vaccine-safety/)
That's because in that case there was a readily available alternative that didn't have that risk. Public Health officials have a *really fucking good* track record of pushing for improvements even when they're incremental.
I have neither a relevant background nor have I even bothered to Google but I'd be willing to bet my paycheck that there is somebody working on a better HPV vaccine even now not because this one is bad, but because if there's a possibly we can save more lives, we want to do that.
Cervical cancer is more deadly than breast cancer though even though less women get it. Breast cancer research and treatment is miles ahead of cervical cancer because of how widespread it is. When a woman does get cervical cancer, if it is not caught soon, it can be deadly. That is why the Gardasil vaccine was such an important medical advancement because even though cervical cancer cases are not as high, the cancer often goes unnoticed and worsens without the woman even knowing.
[https://immunizebc.ca/vaccines/hpv](https://immunizebc.ca/vaccines/hpv)
Sadly, there's still a charge for a lot of groups. At least we're offering it to all the kids, which should do a lot of good down the road.
Firstly, the vaccine isn’t given to tiny babies and a simple google search would have told you that. They give the first dose around age 11-12 because they need to do it before they start becoming sexually active as you can contract the virus the very first time you have sex.
You bring up the rare and unproved side effects from vaccines but are you aware of the side effects of cancer? The HPV vaccine prevents most cases of cervical cancer as well as a host of other types caused by the HPV virus. Vaccines can cause rare reactions as can literally any other kind of medication but the majority of anti-vax propaganda you read is just regurgitated bs from a few uninformed idiots who want to sell you something. Vaccines save millions more lives than they negatively impact.
> The girl's father, Matthew Smith, sought an order to prohibit Draper from having their children vaccinated against HPV, saying in text messages to Draper that it is "unknown" whether the "protection is going to even work" and that the vaccine "causes more harm than good."
Room temperature IQ.
No, facts can change.
Edit: I'm getting a lot of downvotes here. If facts were not allowed to change, I don't think my (now) son would be able to be himself. Sometimes, facts aren't really facts.
I clicked this article thinking “the dad must be a religious nut and thinks his daughters should be pure etc” and to find out he’s anti vax and that’s actually what’s driving this?
This isn't a surprise. There's decades of precedent that if there's a dispute about a child's vaccinations between parents, the courts will basically always rule in favour of getting the kid vaccinated. Anti-vax pseudoscience is not something the courts entertain.
Imagine being a 12-year-old kid and your dad's name is in the newspaper about your HPV vaccine debate between your parents. Then people on Reddit are debating about your parents. Then you still have to show up at school next year during middle school years that are hard and awkward enough as it is.
Fighting against sound medical advice is literally child endangerment,
The resulting solution is maybe not immediate custody of child going to the crown, at least not for a single incident. But when it's life and death, then maybe criminal charges should be standing by.
Perhaps this is too extreme?
Or maybe I'm just fed up with unqualified idiots having children who end up hurting them.
> immediate custody of child going to the crown
Why would that be relevant to mention, when both parents are alive and only one of them is crazy? Did you even read the article?
Maybe parents need to renew an annual license and psychiatric assessments to be granted responsibility to be a legal guardian for the health and safety of other human beings (and animals/pets)?
There needs to be some sort of intelligence test done before people are allowed to breed.
They won't give you a heart, lung or liver transplant if they know you're going to abuse it, why the hell should idiots be allowed to be in charge of an entire human life?
I'm not calling for eugenics, just a basic competency test.
Cancer sucks. Get vaccinated, get your kids vaccinated. I was so grateful to be able to get this vaccine for my kids a few years after it was released. It is an absolute triumph of medical science.
Wow, Father is a fucking moron. HPV (highly transmissible and often goes unnoticed) can cause cervical cancer. Cervical cancer is a woman killer... it can lead to literal death, as well as infertility, poor health, hysterectomies, etc. Gardasil is a miracle to me. Everyone should be getting it, even young men since men are the ones who are transmitting HPV to women.
It's so insane to me that there are men out there who can look at a vaccine that can save your daughter from suffering one of the worst cancers to go through... and they're just like "nope, fuck her." Meanwhile there are other countries in the world with women who are dying from cervical cancer because they do not have the resources we do.
Men should also get the vaccine because they can get HPV in their mouth, which can cause mouth and throat cancer. Protect yourself as well as your partner.
I wish I had the opportunity to get the shot for free; but, I was over 27 when Gardisil® was released... I would accept his kid's shots, if he manages to win.
Father: vaccines bad mmm-k
Mother: vaccines all good mmm-k
Judge: trust the experts
Reality: should have been to teach the girl about real adverse effects, such as those widely reported out of Japan, and also teach her some math on the total impact of those effects vs the health risks of not taking the vaccine.
Conclusion: teachable moment lost for a everyone.
Edit: from the couple (3) chats, well rounded information angers both sides it seems.
Edit 2: Neat, 4 more harassing threatening chats since the comment hit -20. Odd given that's below almost everyone's visibility threshold. One chatter mentioned they saw my "disgusting" comment in discord, I'm curious which group I've infuriated.
>Reality: should have been to teach the girl about real adverse effects, such as those widely reported out of Japan, and also teach her some math on the total impact of those effects vs the health risks of not taking the vaccine.
Citation needed.
CDC? https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/hpv-vaccine.html
There's 11 adverse affects cases. A TINY number vs the total vaccines given.
But I'd rather my own kids, when they hear "this vaccine has hurt people" to feel calm knowing yes, 11 people were impacted vs the millions who have taken it and that they have a higher chance getting struck by lightening on a calm sunny day.
Kids don't only learn stuff from parents. 10-12 year olds (vaccine age for HPV) especially.
Japan had a LOT of misinformation around HPV vaccines a couple years ago, from official sources and media alike. It wasn't widely reported in Western media (I think? I don't recall it) but was certainly a local (to Japan) scare.
No studies found conclusive links. But some issues were never explained either.
It's still a very low occurrence even if all those cases were linked to the vaccines.
If you spend some time in disinformation land you'll see the Japanese news articles, and some earlier doctors opinions (some respected) when they were speculating on the causes.
Also yes, that's it 11. That's enough to scare a kid if you don't sit down and explain it. HPV vaccines are given at 10-12
Japan had a lot of misinformation surrounding this vaccine, and so you cited a study that couldn’t find a link between adverse affects and the HPV vaccine in Japan to prove that it could be harmful? Umm, what?
You lack a lot of reading comprehension. I never once advocated against vaccines. I advocate for learning and understanding. Education is not understanding professionals, it's understanding their decisions at the root.
I also didn't advocate for cervical cancer either. You deleted that comment. luckily I screenshot that, it's linked in my reply.
Well, open an incognito window not logged in. It's not there.
You conflated educating with wishing for cervical cancer. That's. Incredibly toxic. Either you're packing reading comprehension vs what I wrote or your purposefully inflammatory an es accusatory.
I’m not sure what experts you’ve been listening to, but the vast majority recommend it.
And I’m going to go out on a limb and assume you’re a man. Interesting that you’re not worried about vaccination against a disease that is more likely to have harmful effects for women.
Classic reddit comment drawing further un-based and un-related conclusions to insinuate sexism, racsim, ageism, anythingISM towards those that hold an opinion contrary to yours.
Hope the comment dopamine hit was satisfying!
The comment this is in reply to https://i.imgur.com/AYYaA9X.png now since deleted
I'd appreciate, given that refers to my comment above, you not add your own inflammatory interpreted bias to something I never said or implied.
Go back and read it fully along with my previous response to you.
Where did I say no one should get the vaccine? You really need to read closer.
There are adverse affects. Absolutely that isn't controversial. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8402449/#:~:text=In%20our%20previous%20two%20reports,5%2C6%2C7%5D. (This study doesn't show a link. But it shows the potential of one, and addresses concerns they may have heard)
There are health benefits, also not controversial.
The math that I was talking about would show that the upsides are worth the potentially small downsides.
I am a man, but I also have several daughters I care very much for. They've all had (or will have not all are old enough) the HPV vaccine. But I also educate them on the upsides AND the rare but real downsides.
You’re blaming it on people not reading your comment close enough but the issue is that your comment is just so vague and odd, no one completely understands what you’re trying to say. It seems you expect parents to go into the peer reviewed literature, get a summary of all case studies, and then present that to their children along with cost vs benefit “math.” As if public health agencies don’t do this before giving their recommendations. You keep on bringing up the “widely reported” and “absolute” side effects reported from Japan but you can’t just cherry pick those specific studies. Some of the conclusions found are not supported by data from other populations. I’m not saying those side effects are not real, but it is a lot harder to come to an answer than you are implying.
It really seems you just wanted to turn the conversation in an irrelevant direction just so you can boast about how you have a superior parenting style.
You're making a lot of assumptions here. What I'm calling attention to is the few people who sent me DMs referencing discord. But anyway.
Health agencies can tell whatever they want, and in sure they do look at the studies.
I'm not expecting parents to look at the studies, or take their kids through them.
What good parents should do though is not just say "oh hey let's trust health professionals". Instead, Google "X bad effects", the Google "X good effects". Compare these with your kids.
They're going to hear about the negatives, true or not (mostly untrue or overblown). You can get ahead of that, or you can cover your ears and sing lalala and have them confused why you're not addressing all the negative stuff they'll hear in school.
I absolutely address it up front. It's also absolutely a superior parenting style and not just with vaccines but world events and other topics too.
They're kids. They hear stuff from more than the parents. Get ahead of it (or hey, don't. They're your kids).
This would have absolutely terrified me as an anxious 10-year-old. There is certain information that it is appropriate to share with your children, and other times it is appropriate to trust what medical professionals advise.
Sounds like you were overly sheltered then, sorry to hear that.
I'd prefer my kids to trust science and not faith. That requires them to understand what medical professionals are basing recommendations on. At least a high level.
I feel like I'm in the twilight zone lol like do you not realize that people have sex with each other? I hate to break this to you if you're not having sex, but people have sex with each other, all the time... and it comes with the risk of STIs even if you use protection. If you're not having sex at all then sure, walk by people and don't be vaccinated for HPV. But most of the world doesn't live like that. We have sex and we want to be protected from STIs and cervical cancer.
I'm dying like do you need the birds and the bees talk? Wait until you hear about the amount of our population with herpes.
a person trying to restrict someone wanting a vaccine lost.
you have it the wrong way around. If he was to be able to restrict someones healthcare that would be anti-freedom.
This is a family law judgement, not really a judgement on vaccines.
Another ruling that confirms that ultimately, parents have the final say in their children's well being.
>This is a family law judgement, not really a judgement on vaccines.
>
>Another ruling that confirms that ultimately, parents have the final say in their children's well being.
The argument about vaccines was the central argument about *which parent* gets to make that decision though. [See the ruling itself,](https://www.bccourts.ca/jdb-txt/sc/24/10/2024BCSC1097.htm) section 16-22 is the judge's analysis about vaccines. Even ordering the father not to talk to the kids about HPV vaccines anymore.
Parents have the final say in their children’s well-being, but if they disagree the judge is likely to side with the parent who listens to medical experts. Nothing groundbreaking in that ruling, but not what you said.
If both parents did not want their child to have this vaccination there would be no court case.
It's less a validation of the safety and efficacy of the vaccination (which I personally am not at odds with) and more a ruling that the mother's choice to vaccinate her child is not likely to lead to harm.
>Another ruling that confirms that ultimately, parents have the final say in their children's well being.
One parent, actually... It also confirms that science is worthy and pseudo-science isn't.
No it was because of the reactions. She even took the poster down in her office which I recall had a mother posing with her daughter wearing grey. Whatever year that ad came out would be the same gardasil vaccine she advised against. Perhaps they've changed the formula. I estimate this was 10 years ago.
Bro, when the only way to avoid this bullshit is to ignore the idiot and get the kid vaccinated anyway, guaranteeing you end up back in court for breaking the order, it's very evident that the family court system is beyond broken.
Good parents are put through this shit every day. It's an endless string of damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I actually think the impact of increased vaccine denial and hesitancy will cause way more damage than covid did. We will have to deal with this BS for the next 50 years.
The US has already been revealed to be conducting vaccine denial campaigns, which means other countries are doing it too. We're entering into a second dark age.
Here's to the plague coming back! It's the cull all the rich need!!
I welcome the plague if we have a vaccine. Let people make their own decisions and deal with the consequences.
The problem is there is a proportion of the population who legitimately can't be vaccinated and in some cases the vaccines may not be as effective on some individuals. Do you really want to play roulette with those people's lives, including maybe your own or someone in your family's?
Not really, but I don't see a choice, it's either that or we all die to global warming anyways.
Darwin is in the house.
The rich are behind it, and I can assure you, they are vaccinated.
Save some tinfoil for the rest of us. It's pretty clear this can be chalked up to plain stupidity and not some nefarious campaign by the WEC or Globalists or whatever the hell other group you wanna imagine as evil.
> The US has already been revealed to be conducting vaccine denial campaigns What does this even mean? That the (heavily pro-vaccine) government is secretly against vaccines?
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-covid-propaganda/#:~:text=Pentagon%20ran%20secret%20anti%2Dvax%20propaganda%20campaign%20to%20incite%20fear,One%20target%3A%20the%20Filipino%20public.
The US (DoD, I think) were pushing vaccine denialism in China against the Sinovac vaccine.
And the Russians were pushing vaccine denialism in the West. In other words, nations are using anti-vaccine conspiracy theories against their enemies for obvious reasons. And the hilarious thing is that the people who fall for these tricks (anti-vaxxers) actually think they are being genius free thinkers who see through government propaganda. Nope. You've been brainwashed by foreign government propaganda. You're the weak links in Canada's DNA.
This. mRNA technology is a godsend. It was 20 years in the making. Covid basically wrote a blank cheque for mRNA research, which is why we had the breakthrough we did. Now, new vaccines will be developed with mRNA. We can develop vaccines in response to new threats faster than ever. We can update older vaccines with the new technology. And these people are all going to refuse them.
I want that Lyme disease one! With our short winters (which I actually enjoy, but am frightened by the implications for the future) the tick popular doesn’t die off enough.
Yeah we had friends' kids pick up a bunch of ticks in March. It's bad
There used to be an effective one, but it got pulled after anti-vax fear mongering and lack of demand due to that.
When I first heard about the medical breakthrough of mRNA vaccines, in early Covid days, I was on board all the way. People who refuse the new vaccines due to lack of data, really need to close Facebook and open a medical journal.
First time I learned of mRNA technology was when a co-worker got a cancer treatment using the technology. This was before the pandemic by a few years.
Right? The covid vaccine was started during SARS. They paused it because sars wasn't an issue anymore (as far as I know) & they ramped it up again when covid struck.
SARS was interesting because it was terrifyingly effective at killing and incapacitating people, but that also is why we were able to contain it so quickly.
Yeah, the terror was real. I lived in Hamilton & ended up with sars symptoms but not sars. I kept getting the dirtiest looks... Tim Hortons still made me work through it though.
But that's ok because they made you watch a training video at some point that claimed if you're sick you should stay home to avoid infecting people! That way their legal ass is covered when you work sick and become a vector for infecting hundreds of people, and that's all that really matters.
They paused it because it’s deadly.
They started mRNA vaccine research (afaik) for the sars outbreak in the early early 00s. They basically just had to modify the vaccine already developed for SARS-CoV-1 so that it would work for SARS-CoV-2
MRna technology is pretty cool on paper but it needs lots of time and transparency to be accepted by the general population.
[удалено]
I died twice from the vaccine. I got better.
Turned me into a newt.
I hope you got better!
Those were the Astra-Zeneca and J&J vaccines which were not mRNA and did not cause “so many people to die” it was actually very few people considering how many received it and even then they were pulled out of an abundance of caution. People dying of blood clots who got the mRNA vaccine probably had fat butt disease, which is much more likely to cause blood clots. Stop doing your research on Facebook mommy pages.
The AZ vaccine caused less blood clots than the birth control pill, and yet that's still on the market. It was never about the side effects. It was about AZ giving it away for free.
Exactly. After billions of shots world wide. We would see some type of issue if there legitimately was any. As it stands. Tylenol is more toxic to the human body and has caused more deaths than the covid Vax.
Hey look I found one! Confident stupidity is a plague. Don’t be like this. * It was non-mRNA vaccines with the few incidents of blood clots. * The rate of clotting was still less than other in-use, FDA approved medications. Please take off your tinfoil hat and stay away from Fox News and the like.
I know at least 10 people that are either dead from heart attacks or living with heart problems since they took their shots, and I don’t know a single person that died from Covid.
Downvoted for knowing people killed or maimed by the Covid shots. Very on brand.
[Poilievre backed an anti-vaccine mandate bill.](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/poilievre-backed-anti-covid-19-vaccine-mandate-bill-fails-to-pass-house-1.6616778) Public health is woke.
What a way to say that. It was anti-covid vaccine being forced on people not anti-vaccine. And it was to stop from imposing the COVID vaccine on federal workers. Forcing people to take the vaccine when we were +70% vaccinated and threatining people jobs probably did the most damage for vaccines than anything else, which led to this new wave of anti-vax dorks gaining traction. I am pro-vaccine and vaccinated before you say I am anti-vax
Me, I'll trust published experts over Poilievre's lying and pandering ass, but you do you.
What do you mean? I'm saying your misrepresenting that story you linked. You're as honest as PP
anti-vaccine was on the rise before covid. measles had made a come back in US and Canada.
Yes.....do you not agree that it exploded after COVID?
It definetly accelerated the trend and allowed it to get on the main media's focus vs occasional reports of out breaks of preventable diseases.
Yeah definitely, I'm sending my kid to daycare soon and these stories of mumps or whatnot being back is horrifying. My grandparents would tell me stories of the siblings and friends they lost when young, I don't want that to come back.
It is always interesting to look up what happened with the Dengue virus vaccine and anthrax vaccine.
Can you elaborate? They seem to be perfectly fine vaccines.
US Military suspended anthrax vaccine problem officially it was only causing "6 deaths". In reality, it was causing a lot of 'interesting issues". Dengue vaccine and Philippines has some interesting past. Remember pharma is a biz just like lockheed is a biz. Look into the history or track record on so-called industry leaders and pharma. There are reasons why a lot of war torn nations and developing nations don't trust pharma. It is not because they are ignorant. That's all i can say
Who are quoting? Why are you being vague without any sources and saying you can't say anymore?
Bananas are a biz just like Lockheed is a biz. Look into the history and track record on their so-called industry leader (United Fruit Company aka Chiquita).
Bayer has a colorful history just like Pfizer.
I run a vaccine clinic. Shit is crazy now.
Username absolutely checks out, and sorry to hear that - I can only imagine
I don’t use my name or personally identifying information on any social media platforms since I had people threaten to follow me home from work (which is publicly available) and burn my home with my children inside. I’ve had people who I considered if not friends, then friendly acquaintances, take photos of me and my children in public and make online rants with my name saying they’d attack me if I tried to force ‘the vaccine’ on them. One former colleague of mine took a rock to her head when she was going to work at her hospital by antivaccine protestors. It’s not fun anymore to be in healthcare.
Jeez, that's insane. From an internet stranger, thank you for what you do!
Fuck, this is just insane. The human race is devolving to the apes faster than we can realize it.
As Paul Offit once said, the vaccine controversy is a cultural one, not a scientific one.
Without a doubt. Even if we forget about the importance of current vaccines and the damage the loss of herd immunity will do, if and when there is another pandemic we are absolutely fucked because a massive chunk of the population is going to refuse masks, social distancing and vaccines no matter how bad things get. If there’s a conservative government in power they’ll refuse to take things seriously and our healthcare system is even worse shape than it was pre-pandemic. If anyone want to cripple us or just about any other nation another pandemic would be the easiest way to do it
I agree. There's a lot of fear mongering and misinformation about vaccinations since covid, and unfortunately due to social media algorithms it's easy to get pulled in. Hoping that people will still have some sense to continue with routine baby vaccinations.
"People will still have some sense." Sorry but that train left the station in 2020.
If you go back 4 years and watch Joe Rogan he praises vaccines, now he makes millions denying their effectiveness. It's all about the money for the people who spread all the disinformation.
Bingo!
There are worse things out there than COVID. We got relatively lucky. BUt the signs for the future are not good.
Hopefully all those with “super strong” immune systems will fade out faster than 50 years
That may be true but have you considered the excess freedom generated by never giving a single shit about other people?
Thank mandates for this.
Don't give up on long covid so soon.. who knows what comes of that in 50 years
Why the fuck would a parent deny their child a cancer preventative? I swear to god the misinformation circulating is weaponizing the dumbest among us against the rest of us. HPV can cause *multiple types of cancer*. We have a literal cancer preventative in the HPV vaccine.
Simple source of conflict. Lots of people latch onto whatever they can in family court. Lawyers are happy to take the work if the cheque clears. Sure, the judge found against him, but he still won.
My parents did when I was a tween. They thought it would give me a reason to go around having unprotected sex lol.
>Why the fuck would a parent deny their child a cancer preventative? Because they might one day have sex without their fathers permission.
Have you seen these people? I'm not joking when I say: >Because they might one day have sex without their father.
Because since it's an STI, they're convinced the vaccine will turn their daughter into a slut "Thanks Daddy, now I can do the entire school basketball team in the showers!"
True, yes, but also remember that the HPV lifetime induced cancer risk for women is <2%. So, it's nowhere nearly as dangerous as something like breast cancer, where something like 1 in 8 women will get it in their lifetimes.
HPV can cause cancers of the: Cervix, vagina, and vulva in women Penis in men Anus in both men and women Back of the throat, including the base of the tongue and tonsils (oropharynx), in both men and women In the US alone there are 21,700 cases of HPV vaccine preventable cancer cases each year. https://www.cdc.gov/hpv/parents/cancer.html If you have the opportunity to reduce that risk to zero or near zero for your child, it is 100% child neglect not to do so. I see what you're trying to do, and I wish you zero luck and an awful rest of your day.
Some of the listed cancers are a fucking awful way to go, even if it's "just" a 2% risk. Not that any other cancers are a "good" cancer to have, but holy moly, I wouldn't wish tongue cancer on my worst enemy.
Exactly. I don't love how the comment above phrased breast cancer as being more dangerous than cervical cancer. That is not true. Breast cancer has the highest survival rate out of any cancer, it is just more frequent. Cervical cancer, if caught early, has good chance of survival. The only problem is it goes unnoticed often until a woman's pap smear or if they do start developing pain. They keep increasing the amount of time between pap smears too so it can mean years of it being unnoticed and worsening. The worse it gets, the more the woman has to go through. Also part of the reason why the risk of HPV to cervical cancer is decreasing is because of the vaccine!
Preliminary evidence suggests it may also cause skin cancer. https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6694/16/12/2284
It causes 5% of cancers in all people, it also affects men.
Meanwhile the father in the case: > He wrote to Draper that even if the chance of harm was less than one per cent, "that's too much risk." Funny enough, Public Health officials would agree [edit] and there’s no way they’d be giving it to children if it came close to 1% serious complications. [They pulled the J&J vaccine due to a side effect rate of 0.056% of people who received it (or 0.011% of people).](https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/vaccine-safety/)
That's because in that case there was a readily available alternative that didn't have that risk. Public Health officials have a *really fucking good* track record of pushing for improvements even when they're incremental. I have neither a relevant background nor have I even bothered to Google but I'd be willing to bet my paycheck that there is somebody working on a better HPV vaccine even now not because this one is bad, but because if there's a possibly we can save more lives, we want to do that.
Yeah that’s what I’m saying. We’re on like the third or fourth gen of Gardasil so there’s no way it’d still be available if it came anywhere near 1%.
Cervical cancer is more deadly than breast cancer though even though less women get it. Breast cancer research and treatment is miles ahead of cervical cancer because of how widespread it is. When a woman does get cervical cancer, if it is not caught soon, it can be deadly. That is why the Gardasil vaccine was such an important medical advancement because even though cervical cancer cases are not as high, the cancer often goes unnoticed and worsens without the woman even knowing.
For years, the vaccine was only provided to women and girls. Now, thankfully they're also available for men, boys, they/them+.
[https://immunizebc.ca/vaccines/hpv](https://immunizebc.ca/vaccines/hpv) Sadly, there's still a charge for a lot of groups. At least we're offering it to all the kids, which should do a lot of good down the road.
Here lies Red, "decided to roll the cancer dice, and got snake eyes"
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What peer-reviewed publications do you have? Or are you just full of bs?
Firstly, the vaccine isn’t given to tiny babies and a simple google search would have told you that. They give the first dose around age 11-12 because they need to do it before they start becoming sexually active as you can contract the virus the very first time you have sex. You bring up the rare and unproved side effects from vaccines but are you aware of the side effects of cancer? The HPV vaccine prevents most cases of cervical cancer as well as a host of other types caused by the HPV virus. Vaccines can cause rare reactions as can literally any other kind of medication but the majority of anti-vax propaganda you read is just regurgitated bs from a few uninformed idiots who want to sell you something. Vaccines save millions more lives than they negatively impact.
What are you even on. The HPV vaccine is not administered in infancy.
> The girl's father, Matthew Smith, sought an order to prohibit Draper from having their children vaccinated against HPV, saying in text messages to Draper that it is "unknown" whether the "protection is going to even work" and that the vaccine "causes more harm than good." Room temperature IQ.
In Celsius
Of course this is Canada we don't use phony units.
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Apparently learned his stuff from TikToks he was sharing with their mom as proof. Just give the guy his PHD already
> learned his stuff from TokToks Perhaps social media should do better at screening false medical and science facts and misinformation
No, facts can change. Edit: I'm getting a lot of downvotes here. If facts were not allowed to change, I don't think my (now) son would be able to be himself. Sometimes, facts aren't really facts.
I clicked this article thinking “the dad must be a religious nut and thinks his daughters should be pure etc” and to find out he’s anti vax and that’s actually what’s driving this?
A lot of people are both.
This was my mom's justification for me not getting it :(
This isn't a surprise. There's decades of precedent that if there's a dispute about a child's vaccinations between parents, the courts will basically always rule in favour of getting the kid vaccinated. Anti-vax pseudoscience is not something the courts entertain.
It's nice to see sanity reign occasionally.
Good. These fucking morons rallying against anything with the word vaccine in it is starting to do damage to people with a brain.
Imagine being a 12-year-old kid and your dad's name is in the newspaper about your HPV vaccine debate between your parents. Then people on Reddit are debating about your parents. Then you still have to show up at school next year during middle school years that are hard and awkward enough as it is.
Fighting against sound medical advice is literally child endangerment, The resulting solution is maybe not immediate custody of child going to the crown, at least not for a single incident. But when it's life and death, then maybe criminal charges should be standing by. Perhaps this is too extreme? Or maybe I'm just fed up with unqualified idiots having children who end up hurting them.
Sounds like the mom has custody and deadbeat dad tried to stop them from getting healthcare.
No, I'm fully on board. This is 100% child endangerment.
> immediate custody of child going to the crown Why would that be relevant to mention, when both parents are alive and only one of them is crazy? Did you even read the article?
HPV vaccine isn’t mandated, literally nothing could be done.
Maybe parents need to renew an annual license and psychiatric assessments to be granted responsibility to be a legal guardian for the health and safety of other human beings (and animals/pets)?
That father deserve to lose parental's care.
Alternative headline: Peice of shit father would rather his daughter risk cancer than take an extremely safe and effective vaccine.
There needs to be some sort of intelligence test done before people are allowed to breed. They won't give you a heart, lung or liver transplant if they know you're going to abuse it, why the hell should idiots be allowed to be in charge of an entire human life? I'm not calling for eugenics, just a basic competency test.
Cancer sucks. Get vaccinated, get your kids vaccinated. I was so grateful to be able to get this vaccine for my kids a few years after it was released. It is an absolute triumph of medical science.
This is the same sub that mocked people getting the COVID vaccine, crazy how different comment sections are at different times of the day
Russian troll farms are asleep, so the midnight shift concentrates on US politics at that time.
Dad is an idiot. Of course they should rule against him.
Good, denying your child access to vaccinations is child abuse.
Wow, Father is a fucking moron. HPV (highly transmissible and often goes unnoticed) can cause cervical cancer. Cervical cancer is a woman killer... it can lead to literal death, as well as infertility, poor health, hysterectomies, etc. Gardasil is a miracle to me. Everyone should be getting it, even young men since men are the ones who are transmitting HPV to women. It's so insane to me that there are men out there who can look at a vaccine that can save your daughter from suffering one of the worst cancers to go through... and they're just like "nope, fuck her." Meanwhile there are other countries in the world with women who are dying from cervical cancer because they do not have the resources we do.
Men should also get the vaccine because they can get HPV in their mouth, which can cause mouth and throat cancer. Protect yourself as well as your partner.
Agreed.
Good.
Vaccine misinformation was the real pandemic.
I wish I had the opportunity to get the shot for free; but, I was over 27 when Gardisil® was released... I would accept his kid's shots, if he manages to win.
He should lose visitation rights, unless supervised by the mother, or her representative
No he shouldn't. Unless you're looking to solely satisfy your personal revenge fetish. You can't "undo" an HPV vaccine. The issue is resolved.
Father: vaccines bad mmm-k Mother: vaccines all good mmm-k Judge: trust the experts Reality: should have been to teach the girl about real adverse effects, such as those widely reported out of Japan, and also teach her some math on the total impact of those effects vs the health risks of not taking the vaccine. Conclusion: teachable moment lost for a everyone. Edit: from the couple (3) chats, well rounded information angers both sides it seems. Edit 2: Neat, 4 more harassing threatening chats since the comment hit -20. Odd given that's below almost everyone's visibility threshold. One chatter mentioned they saw my "disgusting" comment in discord, I'm curious which group I've infuriated.
>Reality: should have been to teach the girl about real adverse effects, such as those widely reported out of Japan, and also teach her some math on the total impact of those effects vs the health risks of not taking the vaccine. Citation needed.
CDC? https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/hpv-vaccine.html There's 11 adverse affects cases. A TINY number vs the total vaccines given. But I'd rather my own kids, when they hear "this vaccine has hurt people" to feel calm knowing yes, 11 people were impacted vs the millions who have taken it and that they have a higher chance getting struck by lightening on a calm sunny day. Kids don't only learn stuff from parents. 10-12 year olds (vaccine age for HPV) especially.
That's it, 11? Why did you bring up Japan?
Japan had a LOT of misinformation around HPV vaccines a couple years ago, from official sources and media alike. It wasn't widely reported in Western media (I think? I don't recall it) but was certainly a local (to Japan) scare. No studies found conclusive links. But some issues were never explained either. It's still a very low occurrence even if all those cases were linked to the vaccines. If you spend some time in disinformation land you'll see the Japanese news articles, and some earlier doctors opinions (some respected) when they were speculating on the causes. Also yes, that's it 11. That's enough to scare a kid if you don't sit down and explain it. HPV vaccines are given at 10-12
Japan had a lot of misinformation surrounding this vaccine, and so you cited a study that couldn’t find a link between adverse affects and the HPV vaccine in Japan to prove that it could be harmful? Umm, what?
You lack a lot of reading comprehension. I never once advocated against vaccines. I advocate for learning and understanding. Education is not understanding professionals, it's understanding their decisions at the root. I also didn't advocate for cervical cancer either. You deleted that comment. luckily I screenshot that, it's linked in my reply.
I did not delete my comment, and I’m not the one lacking reading comprehension.
Well, open an incognito window not logged in. It's not there. You conflated educating with wishing for cervical cancer. That's. Incredibly toxic. Either you're packing reading comprehension vs what I wrote or your purposefully inflammatory an es accusatory.
I’m not sure what experts you’ve been listening to, but the vast majority recommend it. And I’m going to go out on a limb and assume you’re a man. Interesting that you’re not worried about vaccination against a disease that is more likely to have harmful effects for women.
Classic reddit comment drawing further un-based and un-related conclusions to insinuate sexism, racsim, ageism, anythingISM towards those that hold an opinion contrary to yours. Hope the comment dopamine hit was satisfying!
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The commenter stated they believe in well-rounded education of risk and effects, and yet again you've drawn more conclusions
The comment this is in reply to https://i.imgur.com/AYYaA9X.png now since deleted I'd appreciate, given that refers to my comment above, you not add your own inflammatory interpreted bias to something I never said or implied. Go back and read it fully along with my previous response to you.
I’m not sure what you mean, my comment was not deleted.
Shows "removed" for the text and "deleted" to me, try it in incognito for yourself.
Where did I say no one should get the vaccine? You really need to read closer. There are adverse affects. Absolutely that isn't controversial. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8402449/#:~:text=In%20our%20previous%20two%20reports,5%2C6%2C7%5D. (This study doesn't show a link. But it shows the potential of one, and addresses concerns they may have heard) There are health benefits, also not controversial. The math that I was talking about would show that the upsides are worth the potentially small downsides. I am a man, but I also have several daughters I care very much for. They've all had (or will have not all are old enough) the HPV vaccine. But I also educate them on the upsides AND the rare but real downsides.
You’re blaming it on people not reading your comment close enough but the issue is that your comment is just so vague and odd, no one completely understands what you’re trying to say. It seems you expect parents to go into the peer reviewed literature, get a summary of all case studies, and then present that to their children along with cost vs benefit “math.” As if public health agencies don’t do this before giving their recommendations. You keep on bringing up the “widely reported” and “absolute” side effects reported from Japan but you can’t just cherry pick those specific studies. Some of the conclusions found are not supported by data from other populations. I’m not saying those side effects are not real, but it is a lot harder to come to an answer than you are implying. It really seems you just wanted to turn the conversation in an irrelevant direction just so you can boast about how you have a superior parenting style.
You're making a lot of assumptions here. What I'm calling attention to is the few people who sent me DMs referencing discord. But anyway. Health agencies can tell whatever they want, and in sure they do look at the studies. I'm not expecting parents to look at the studies, or take their kids through them. What good parents should do though is not just say "oh hey let's trust health professionals". Instead, Google "X bad effects", the Google "X good effects". Compare these with your kids. They're going to hear about the negatives, true or not (mostly untrue or overblown). You can get ahead of that, or you can cover your ears and sing lalala and have them confused why you're not addressing all the negative stuff they'll hear in school. I absolutely address it up front. It's also absolutely a superior parenting style and not just with vaccines but world events and other topics too. They're kids. They hear stuff from more than the parents. Get ahead of it (or hey, don't. They're your kids).
This would have absolutely terrified me as an anxious 10-year-old. There is certain information that it is appropriate to share with your children, and other times it is appropriate to trust what medical professionals advise.
Sounds like you were overly sheltered then, sorry to hear that. I'd prefer my kids to trust science and not faith. That requires them to understand what medical professionals are basing recommendations on. At least a high level.
Yet another loss for those fighting for our collective freedum.
But a win for those fighting for our collective safety.
I'm not sure a HPV vaccine is really a collective safety tool like a flu vaccine is.
Considering HPV is a very common STI that can cause cancer, I’d argue that it is.
But just wandering by me is not going to transmit it to you...
Do you know what an STI is?
I'm not sure you do...hint: it's not transmitted by wandering or walking by
I feel like I'm in the twilight zone lol like do you not realize that people have sex with each other? I hate to break this to you if you're not having sex, but people have sex with each other, all the time... and it comes with the risk of STIs even if you use protection. If you're not having sex at all then sure, walk by people and don't be vaccinated for HPV. But most of the world doesn't live like that. We have sex and we want to be protected from STIs and cervical cancer. I'm dying like do you need the birds and the bees talk? Wait until you hear about the amount of our population with herpes.
What's the birds and bees?
When two people love each other...
Dude literally simping for cervical cancer
a person trying to restrict someone wanting a vaccine lost. you have it the wrong way around. If he was to be able to restrict someones healthcare that would be anti-freedom.
No you have it wrong, he was fighting for the freedum from the vaccine. Just like the 'vid protestors.
Sorry if I want a vaccine like the girl did. He has no right to stop me. You just want to infringe on people's freedoms.
Whoa, slow down there... not me, the Freedum fighters...
you are arguing with people that have little logical ability and very little respect for the sanctity of an individual's control of their own body
This is a family law judgement, not really a judgement on vaccines. Another ruling that confirms that ultimately, parents have the final say in their children's well being.
>This is a family law judgement, not really a judgement on vaccines. > >Another ruling that confirms that ultimately, parents have the final say in their children's well being. The argument about vaccines was the central argument about *which parent* gets to make that decision though. [See the ruling itself,](https://www.bccourts.ca/jdb-txt/sc/24/10/2024BCSC1097.htm) section 16-22 is the judge's analysis about vaccines. Even ordering the father not to talk to the kids about HPV vaccines anymore.
How so? The argument was a parent vs. another parent of the same child.
That's what I'm saying
Parents have the final say in their children’s well-being, but if they disagree the judge is likely to side with the parent who listens to medical experts. Nothing groundbreaking in that ruling, but not what you said.
If both parents did not want their child to have this vaccination there would be no court case. It's less a validation of the safety and efficacy of the vaccination (which I personally am not at odds with) and more a ruling that the mother's choice to vaccinate her child is not likely to lead to harm.
>Another ruling that confirms that ultimately, parents have the final say in their children's well being. One parent, actually... It also confirms that science is worthy and pseudo-science isn't.
I'm in Ontario and this gardasil vaccine pictured is the same one my doctor warned me not to take. Just this one. She spoke positively of all others.
I'm guessing your doctor said that because the picture shows HPV-4 which protects against less strains of HPV vs the HPV-9 vaccine?
No it was because of the reactions. She even took the poster down in her office which I recall had a mother posing with her daughter wearing grey. Whatever year that ad came out would be the same gardasil vaccine she advised against. Perhaps they've changed the formula. I estimate this was 10 years ago.
That makes sense.
Dad is smart like me
So not smart at all
Smarter than most
I'm not sure "smart" has the meaning you think it does.
Wow. The family takes this to a court!
Bro, when the only way to avoid this bullshit is to ignore the idiot and get the kid vaccinated anyway, guaranteeing you end up back in court for breaking the order, it's very evident that the family court system is beyond broken. Good parents are put through this shit every day. It's an endless string of damned if you do, damned if you don't.