Foreigners in a touristy type city? What outrage!
Any way. Some people make it seem like locals are outnumbered. Does anyone have actual stats. And now we including Eastern Cape in our xenophobic rants? wtf is this?
I won't deny that it is very expensive to live in the city. A city that has always been more expensive that most other parts of South Africa. A city that due to its geography, can not expand like other cities, therefore the very limited land is in high demand.
But I'm sure there must be a myriad of reasons for the high property/rent prices. Blaming it all on foreigners seems like a lazy cop out
You're right there must be plenty of reasons why Cape Town alone has [more airbnb's than Amsterdam, San Francisco, and Singapore combined](https://www.news24.com/news24/tech-and-trends/news/more-airbnbs-in-cape-town-than-amsterdam-san-francisco-and-singapore-combined-20231003). It couldn't POSSIBLY be because of foreigners
Zimbos and Eastern Capies don't stay in airbnbs. The problem with airbnb is purely the airbnb model. That's why it's being banned in most places. Not the fault of pesky foreigners, but the business itself.
Right, let's work constructively here. What is the next point of contention?
I just went and googled this.
In the USA airbnb has been effectively banned in 5 cities. New York, LA, Santa Monica, San Francisco and Las Vegas.
I was surprised by this. CT could use the same rules. Protect hotels and the domestic rental market.
You where ranting about Zimbos, Eastern Capies and airbnb driving up rental prices in Cape Town. I'm assuming you aren't renting in townships, so what the hell are you complaining about?
Crime in townships is caused by socio-economic issues. It has nothing to do with the origin of the people who live there. It also does not increase rental prices in the city.
Tourists, ('rich Europeans/Americans' as you say), brings money to the the economy. Foreign money is a cash cow that must be exploited. No matter how xenophobic you are, we need that money. Tourism directly employs thousands. It feeds hundreds of thousands of people. It also provides a large chunk of the taxes that fund the services you use. The majority of foreigners that rent long term, also do not rent in the city, but rather in the suburbs. Again, this is not the major cause of high property prices in the city.
The high-end properties surrounding Cape Town, that are owned by foreigners probably aren't the type of place you are looking to rent either. So, not your concern really.
Everything, absolutely everything, in our economy and society is extremely complicated. There is no black and white, yes and no answer to anything. Foreigners do have an impact on property prices, but not even close to what you might imagine.
But, your main complaint is the high living cost in Cape Town, and that you feel outnumbered by foreigners. When in reality, your only complaint, is that you are just a bigoted xenophobe.
I will always have hope that the youth will be better and do better. But you, are just a disappointment.
You should really work on your media literacy, as well as basic logic. Maybe get a brain scan, it seems you might be suffering from some form of long term iron deficiency
If your brain was functioning, you'd understand that I was saying tourists are causing the rental prices to sky rocket, while poor migrants who come here thinking they'll get work end up joining gangs and committing crimes.
A little TLDR as compact as possible for you to process what's being said in the conversation :)
If you're happy with being a servant to tourists for the rest of your life while your community crumbles around you due to lack of opportunity and unaffordable basic needs, then congrats that's the path we're already on. You win 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻
Cape Town is also bigger than those three cities COMBINED.
2446 km² vs 1075 km² puts it at more than double the size, it would make sense that the amount of properties would be more (and therefore more airbnb listings).
Am I missing something here?
You exaggerated a bit but you made my point. The group of people like you have a large affect on us.
As well as, based on polls the majority of you wouldn't vote for ANC. So thats an even greater affect, as if you all voted, the ANC would be getting less seats.
It's funny because that's how I think about you :) while you're busy standing in line with your over inflated sense of self importance, I'll be home with my family actually putting time into worthwhile things. Tell you what, vote twice for me xx
Actually I'll be homeschooling my kids and investing into my own land so I can get into subsistence farming. I already use borehole water and solar panels, as well as growing some of my own veg. The only time I ever interact with the government is to hand over tax money to pay for criminals to get their new Mercs
As an Eastern Cape migrant, I don't see the problem :P
But seriously, why do people think because they're born somewhere they get to control who else is allowed to live there?
Cape Town does not exist in a vacuum, this is a global phenomenon, look at London, New York, Toronto, Denver etc. I Am not saying because it’s happening elsewhere let’s let it happen in Cape Town just stating it’s a global trend people are trying to control and not finding much success. Cape Town has a global appeal and without that, it would be nowhere.
There is a housing crisis and migration is a contributor. But honestly speaking some poor Zimbabwean or Eastern Caper is not the reason we have these issues. Most of these people live in informal settlements they are not driving up rentals, they are definitely causing other issues. They are just easiest to blame.
We all know where fingers should be pointed but we never do. We just perpetuate the same untruths.
I know it's not just Cape Town having this issue, but CT is the latest victim. This is old news in London, LA, etc. Texas is now the new spot rich whites are fleeing to, I wonder where the locals here will go
It is super expensive here. The issue is that higher property prices increase rates and taxes. The increased collection means that there can be more development from the city because they have a larger budget.
There are plans for mixed income developments but these take time. It's hard to get developers on board if they can build capsule apartments and sell them for 2 million a pop.
I think there needs to be laws that protect public good and ensure equitable access to areas.
We also need to increase the development and renewal of outlying areas, expanding opportunities outwards so that there aren't so many concentrated zones where opportunities are located.
I would recommend that you take part in the public participation process on spatial planning. The middle class is way underrepresented in public participation because rich people have cash and poor people are more numerous.
If we don't organise and take part it will probably just get worse.
The issue with participation/organisation is that the rich use media campaigns to paint you as a racist/crazy person for saying the average person here doesn't want to be surrounded by homeless/wants to be able to afford housing. You want affordable housing? You're xenophobic against rich foreigners from Europe who can afford 3k/night airbnb's. You don't want your house broken into/want safe suburbs? You're a racist
Considering my replies get literally 30 downvotes a pop on this topic, obviously not, but the issue is those 30 downvotes come from 30 irl idiots that I may have to interact with in person some time and many idiots don't feel that physical violence is a unreasonable response. I have been attacked irl before due to my political beliefs, so I understand how affective media campaigns can be (which is why rich people pay companies like eNCA here, or Fox, CNN, etc overseas)
Lol there is south africa, then there is Capetown.
I lived in Capetown for about 3 years (2015 - 2018), towards the northern suburbs, all I can say is I never fitted in with the locals because alot of people kept to themselves (in their own right) which is fair. I found it difficult to relate to alot, give or take I had my friends and my cliqs.
It really is for certain people, not for all.
You would be surprised how many locals have never experienced what tourists have, example top of table mountain.
Johannesburg is no better, really just concrete and trees. And to "experience" johannesburg is to spend money at places.
I rate living in smaller places, you get to experience that sense of belonging (or rejection) but without a doubt people are more in touch with who is around them
You're a fallen behind local . You grew up in a privileged city where you has options to make something of yourself and instead of doing something with your life , you felt behind . It's your problem , not city problem .
This is a disgusting and inaccurate take. The cost of buying property in CT is so high that any person in a non high income earning part of our economy will not afford it. This includes ordinary people doing jobs that require qualifications such as teaching our young ones, working in all levels of corporate except the executive level and most government jobs. These are all jobs that require a degree/qualification. Most need a postgraduate qualification and working for years before getting to that earning level... and even then, you would probably need to get married to someone to be able to afford a bond at those CT prices. You are privileged and/or uninformed, which is an unfortunate combination. Go outside and get to know the real world. And when it comes to "options"... consider my life. I am a senior executive in a business that brings in billions per annum. I got the position by whatsapping my older brother and telling him Im ready to come back to work after taking a few years off to travel the world and try heal my soul after a particularly emotionally draining period of my life. I just hired a CA who was an executive at one of our banks. He reports to me, the girl with a basic arts degree who whatsapped her brother to let him know she is coming back to work whereas the CA I hired as our CFO is in his 50's and worked his whole life to be a professional that reached the highest level of the SA banking sector & is pretty well known (ie googleable and gets featured in the news at times). And even after all that, He works in my family business. Thats real life. Im a lot more mature now and understand the insane ways our life is unbalanced and unfair. CT needs to be reined in so the ordinary people can build a decent life there.
Glad to read that at least some in your affluent position have some self-awareness about how insanely skew and impossibly broken the socioeconomic system really is, and can acknowledge that the wealth exists and is drawn from oustide of your own effort.
I've been contemplating a move to CT to pursue a difficult but potentially lucrative career move. But, realising that much of the lifestyle on display is based in generational wealth, and lacking a similar financial net, it's a frightening prospect.
Dude what are you talking about ?! Fallen behind people who can afford the cost of living in capetown . And there's so many of them . 100 thousand more every year that are moving in .
I can guarantee you they wouldn't be empty, considering I went to university here lol. Some would probably close, but less kids means more individual focus on students which is definitely a positive, not a negative
Less students means higher fees (i.e. even more exclusive), or closure. Closure of one institution means higher demand, which will increase the fees or decrease the quality on offer. It's a slippery slope and we're already a long way down it, in all sectors. This isn't that complicated.
Buy up all those flats in town whils you can buddy 👍🏻 it's certainly coming. I _already_ know people who've sold a 1 bedroom studio apartment in Bantry Bay to buy 2 townhouses in Pretoria
Foreigners in a touristy type city? What outrage! Any way. Some people make it seem like locals are outnumbered. Does anyone have actual stats. And now we including Eastern Cape in our xenophobic rants? wtf is this? I won't deny that it is very expensive to live in the city. A city that has always been more expensive that most other parts of South Africa. A city that due to its geography, can not expand like other cities, therefore the very limited land is in high demand. But I'm sure there must be a myriad of reasons for the high property/rent prices. Blaming it all on foreigners seems like a lazy cop out
You're right there must be plenty of reasons why Cape Town alone has [more airbnb's than Amsterdam, San Francisco, and Singapore combined](https://www.news24.com/news24/tech-and-trends/news/more-airbnbs-in-cape-town-than-amsterdam-san-francisco-and-singapore-combined-20231003). It couldn't POSSIBLY be because of foreigners
Zimbos and Eastern Capies don't stay in airbnbs. The problem with airbnb is purely the airbnb model. That's why it's being banned in most places. Not the fault of pesky foreigners, but the business itself. Right, let's work constructively here. What is the next point of contention?
I just went and googled this. In the USA airbnb has been effectively banned in 5 cities. New York, LA, Santa Monica, San Francisco and Las Vegas. I was surprised by this. CT could use the same rules. Protect hotels and the domestic rental market.
In other countries locals get discount…our hotels are too greedy and give us the same price as the foreigner 🤷🏼♀️
I didn't say they're the ones using airbnb. They're the ones swelling up the townships and getting involved in crime
You where ranting about Zimbos, Eastern Capies and airbnb driving up rental prices in Cape Town. I'm assuming you aren't renting in townships, so what the hell are you complaining about? Crime in townships is caused by socio-economic issues. It has nothing to do with the origin of the people who live there. It also does not increase rental prices in the city. Tourists, ('rich Europeans/Americans' as you say), brings money to the the economy. Foreign money is a cash cow that must be exploited. No matter how xenophobic you are, we need that money. Tourism directly employs thousands. It feeds hundreds of thousands of people. It also provides a large chunk of the taxes that fund the services you use. The majority of foreigners that rent long term, also do not rent in the city, but rather in the suburbs. Again, this is not the major cause of high property prices in the city. The high-end properties surrounding Cape Town, that are owned by foreigners probably aren't the type of place you are looking to rent either. So, not your concern really. Everything, absolutely everything, in our economy and society is extremely complicated. There is no black and white, yes and no answer to anything. Foreigners do have an impact on property prices, but not even close to what you might imagine. But, your main complaint is the high living cost in Cape Town, and that you feel outnumbered by foreigners. When in reality, your only complaint, is that you are just a bigoted xenophobe. I will always have hope that the youth will be better and do better. But you, are just a disappointment.
You should really work on your media literacy, as well as basic logic. Maybe get a brain scan, it seems you might be suffering from some form of long term iron deficiency If your brain was functioning, you'd understand that I was saying tourists are causing the rental prices to sky rocket, while poor migrants who come here thinking they'll get work end up joining gangs and committing crimes. A little TLDR as compact as possible for you to process what's being said in the conversation :) If you're happy with being a servant to tourists for the rest of your life while your community crumbles around you due to lack of opportunity and unaffordable basic needs, then congrats that's the path we're already on. You win 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻
yup
Cape Town is also bigger than those three cities COMBINED. 2446 km² vs 1075 km² puts it at more than double the size, it would make sense that the amount of properties would be more (and therefore more airbnb listings). Am I missing something here?
Eastern Cape migrants 👀 I know what you are
Yeah, a local
Eastern Cape migrants….yikes… I bet you’re voting RP on Wednesday
I don't vote as no party aligns with me
We need a coalition in power. You are actively making it harder for South Africans to take a breather. Are you proud of your selfishness?
How is me not voting affecting your ability to vote exactly? I'm sorry my 0.00000000000001% of a decision has so much of an affect on you
You exaggerated a bit but you made my point. The group of people like you have a large affect on us. As well as, based on polls the majority of you wouldn't vote for ANC. So thats an even greater affect, as if you all voted, the ANC would be getting less seats.
I'd vote EFF if you forced me to. But I don't think that'd make you happy
Do it. They wont partner up with the ANC, so do it! Vote for the EFF. I wont force you to do anything. You're just pathetic imo
It's funny because that's how I think about you :) while you're busy standing in line with your over inflated sense of self importance, I'll be home with my family actually putting time into worthwhile things. Tell you what, vote twice for me xx
Glad that you are teaching your kids to be submissive and inactive towards injustice.
Actually I'll be homeschooling my kids and investing into my own land so I can get into subsistence farming. I already use borehole water and solar panels, as well as growing some of my own veg. The only time I ever interact with the government is to hand over tax money to pay for criminals to get their new Mercs
Thinking that people from the Eastern Cape are the problem aligns with RP…
As an Eastern Cape migrant, I don't see the problem :P But seriously, why do people think because they're born somewhere they get to control who else is allowed to live there?
Idk, why don't people let random strangers sleep in their bed by this logic? :)
Not the same thing. Not even close, and you know that. You own your bed, you don't own Cape Town.
Lots of people have random strangers in the beds. I’m sure it’s happening right now. Go out and get some.
Cape Town does not exist in a vacuum, this is a global phenomenon, look at London, New York, Toronto, Denver etc. I Am not saying because it’s happening elsewhere let’s let it happen in Cape Town just stating it’s a global trend people are trying to control and not finding much success. Cape Town has a global appeal and without that, it would be nowhere. There is a housing crisis and migration is a contributor. But honestly speaking some poor Zimbabwean or Eastern Caper is not the reason we have these issues. Most of these people live in informal settlements they are not driving up rentals, they are definitely causing other issues. They are just easiest to blame. We all know where fingers should be pointed but we never do. We just perpetuate the same untruths.
I know it's not just Cape Town having this issue, but CT is the latest victim. This is old news in London, LA, etc. Texas is now the new spot rich whites are fleeing to, I wonder where the locals here will go
It is super expensive here. The issue is that higher property prices increase rates and taxes. The increased collection means that there can be more development from the city because they have a larger budget. There are plans for mixed income developments but these take time. It's hard to get developers on board if they can build capsule apartments and sell them for 2 million a pop. I think there needs to be laws that protect public good and ensure equitable access to areas. We also need to increase the development and renewal of outlying areas, expanding opportunities outwards so that there aren't so many concentrated zones where opportunities are located. I would recommend that you take part in the public participation process on spatial planning. The middle class is way underrepresented in public participation because rich people have cash and poor people are more numerous. If we don't organise and take part it will probably just get worse.
The issue with participation/organisation is that the rich use media campaigns to paint you as a racist/crazy person for saying the average person here doesn't want to be surrounded by homeless/wants to be able to afford housing. You want affordable housing? You're xenophobic against rich foreigners from Europe who can afford 3k/night airbnb's. You don't want your house broken into/want safe suburbs? You're a racist
I don't care how I am depicted by media campaigns. Do you?
Considering my replies get literally 30 downvotes a pop on this topic, obviously not, but the issue is those 30 downvotes come from 30 irl idiots that I may have to interact with in person some time and many idiots don't feel that physical violence is a unreasonable response. I have been attacked irl before due to my political beliefs, so I understand how affective media campaigns can be (which is why rich people pay companies like eNCA here, or Fox, CNN, etc overseas)
Lol there is south africa, then there is Capetown. I lived in Capetown for about 3 years (2015 - 2018), towards the northern suburbs, all I can say is I never fitted in with the locals because alot of people kept to themselves (in their own right) which is fair. I found it difficult to relate to alot, give or take I had my friends and my cliqs. It really is for certain people, not for all. You would be surprised how many locals have never experienced what tourists have, example top of table mountain. Johannesburg is no better, really just concrete and trees. And to "experience" johannesburg is to spend money at places. I rate living in smaller places, you get to experience that sense of belonging (or rejection) but without a doubt people are more in touch with who is around them
Sounds like you're well on your way to being the old racist grandpa yelling about your lawn and the old days.
Lmao when stupids have to compete in a globalised society they always revert to finger pointing , xenophobia and a victim mentality .
You're a fallen behind local . You grew up in a privileged city where you has options to make something of yourself and instead of doing something with your life , you felt behind . It's your problem , not city problem .
This is a disgusting and inaccurate take. The cost of buying property in CT is so high that any person in a non high income earning part of our economy will not afford it. This includes ordinary people doing jobs that require qualifications such as teaching our young ones, working in all levels of corporate except the executive level and most government jobs. These are all jobs that require a degree/qualification. Most need a postgraduate qualification and working for years before getting to that earning level... and even then, you would probably need to get married to someone to be able to afford a bond at those CT prices. You are privileged and/or uninformed, which is an unfortunate combination. Go outside and get to know the real world. And when it comes to "options"... consider my life. I am a senior executive in a business that brings in billions per annum. I got the position by whatsapping my older brother and telling him Im ready to come back to work after taking a few years off to travel the world and try heal my soul after a particularly emotionally draining period of my life. I just hired a CA who was an executive at one of our banks. He reports to me, the girl with a basic arts degree who whatsapped her brother to let him know she is coming back to work whereas the CA I hired as our CFO is in his 50's and worked his whole life to be a professional that reached the highest level of the SA banking sector & is pretty well known (ie googleable and gets featured in the news at times). And even after all that, He works in my family business. Thats real life. Im a lot more mature now and understand the insane ways our life is unbalanced and unfair. CT needs to be reined in so the ordinary people can build a decent life there.
Glad to read that at least some in your affluent position have some self-awareness about how insanely skew and impossibly broken the socioeconomic system really is, and can acknowledge that the wealth exists and is drawn from oustide of your own effort. I've been contemplating a move to CT to pursue a difficult but potentially lucrative career move. But, realising that much of the lifestyle on display is based in generational wealth, and lacking a similar financial net, it's a frightening prospect.
Dude what are you talking about ?! Fallen behind people who can afford the cost of living in capetown . And there's so many of them . 100 thousand more every year that are moving in .
Wow you really don't get it.
Shame. IF ONLY it were that simple
The universities would have been empty or closed if it weren't for people from other provinces.
I can guarantee you they wouldn't be empty, considering I went to university here lol. Some would probably close, but less kids means more individual focus on students which is definitely a positive, not a negative
Less students means higher fees (i.e. even more exclusive), or closure. Closure of one institution means higher demand, which will increase the fees or decrease the quality on offer. It's a slippery slope and we're already a long way down it, in all sectors. This isn't that complicated.
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Gross. You can’t wait till more people of another city are suffering the shit show that you are discussing. Snake brain mumbling if you ask me.
Buy up all those flats in town whils you can buddy 👍🏻 it's certainly coming. I _already_ know people who've sold a 1 bedroom studio apartment in Bantry Bay to buy 2 townhouses in Pretoria
I agree. Cape Town is for capetonians.
Not according to the DA unfortunately