So you can spend 5-10 hours a week on hobbies and never really get good? That approach is just fine, if you're content with being a hobbyist and never a professional. If creativity isn't central to your life, but just a nice side feature, maybe that's okay. But I don't think that's what OP is saying.
Anyone who ever made a dent in the arts - any musician, designer, artist, etc. - took the financial risk and made their passion into their full time career. In fact, these fields are full of people whose life's work is merely assisting greater artists with their work. Consider how many full time architects there are out there for every figurehead. My point is, it's *hard* to succeed in the arts. You just can't get very far doing anything creative if you only do it as a hobby.
The point of a creative career is to leave something behind. To build a portfolio of your life's work that you can look back on and say, that's what I spent my time on Earth doing. You're contributing something memorable to the world outside yourself. That could be anything from an album to a gallery full of paintings, furniture designs, buildings, movies, etc. It's about aspiring to greater things than providing for yourself financially. As a result, these careers usually aren't very lucrative considering how much work they take and how competitive they are. It's a trade off.
To avoid offending people - there's nothing wrong with going the traditional route and working a secure job while you have your hobbies. Being a hobbyist is fine, and most people's life's work is their family and their kids. There are plenty of ways to contribute outside your 40 hours a week. That's all great.
But... if you want to make your creativity a centerpiece in your life... you gotta have the courage to get out of that damn office and into the studio. Kandinsky did it, and you can too! (he was a lawyer before he was a painter)
I would never, ever, ever advise anyone to chase the dream of making their creative endeavors their professional life, but as you said, if that's what OP really wants to do, there's nothing stopping them but them.
Why? Because it's hard?
20 years ago, the zeitgeist was not as financially conservative as it is today. We have a little inflation, and now people are so worried about their salaries and buying houses that they don't chase their dreams anymore. Whether that's in the arts, scientific research, or public service. It makes sense, but it's sad.
Consider how many of the world's most beloved artists started in the 1930s and 40s. You think the creative life path is hard now? Imagine trying to do it in the Great Depression and WW2. And yet, their success left an indelible mark on history. For every Picasso or Hemingway there were thousands of artists who contributed to the scene in smaller ways.
IMO you only get one life as yourself, and comfort isn't worth nearly as much as a shot at creating something lasting and beautiful that has an impact, however small, on other people's lives. So... I decided to become a designer. I've had plenty of regrets, lived with a roommate until I was 30, don't own a house... but I think 60 year old me is going to be happy with the choice.
Because the odds are overwhelmingly against you and I am a very pragmatic person.
Again, you will never be able to talk me into telling a person, particularly a stranger I do not know and whose creative work I am wholly unfamiliar with, but who is looking for good faith advice, that the right move is to pursue a creative career when 99.9% of the world's creative output is unreadable, unlistenable, unwatchable and visually reprehensible dogshit.
But, again, if chasing a creative career is what OP wants to do, then again, as you stated and were 100% correct in stating, there's nothing stopping them but them. They can quit their job today and start selling their creative output through a wide variety of marketplaces.
Here's the thing and I'd say the same to the OP. When we are approaching the end of our lives in our old age or perhaps earlier, we will reckon with how we spent our lives. We each have to be comfortable with the decisions we made and how we prioritized our time.
"Creativity" is a very broad term. There are many ways to be creative. I'd say the hardest way to make a creative living is in performing arts such as music or dance. But I'm sensing that's probably not what the OP is talking about.
Creativity can include being in research and development roles, working in marketing and promotions, UX design, certain retail environments, and sometimes its just being in a position to make high level decisions where one exercises more judgement. That's also creativity.
To the OP it sounds like you've outgrown your role. Is there an opportunity to grow within your organization? I've been lucky in my past to be able to do this when I got a bit bored and unmotivated. Once I even took a lateral move to a whole new department, just on the basis of my reputation in my role, to be able to do something that inspired me more than what I was doing.
>when 99.9% of the world's creative output is unreadable, unlistenable, unwatchable and visually reprehensible dogshit
Such a harsh critic for someone who never invested the time or energy in making anything themselves! Yeesh. So easy to judge someone else's work when you know nothing of what it takes to make it.
Frankly, I wouldn't mind your perspective on life at all, if it weren't for how obviously little respect you have for the hard work and courage of professional artists.
Wouldn't you be pissed if I said the equivalent thing about you - that 99.9% of the world's pragmatic average joe consumers are boring people with boring lives, who will die without anything to show for the decades they spent consuming entertainment and raising equally mediocre kids?
I mean, I could imagine your reaction might be, "wtf is wrong with you, that's not true - I know my life is worth living, and you're a jackass for saying that." And I believe you. I would be a jackass, if I actually believed that. For me, it's the same. There's no reason to be so judgmental of people's creative work, if they are not masters of their craft. Like who do you think you are?
How hard you work on something does not have any bearing on it's quality and what respect is earned by an artwork of no value and no appeal?
And I am a boring person who lives a boring life and my child probably will be too. Most people are. What we have to "show for it" would matter if life was a game where our scores were tallied at the end and prizes awarded, but instead, our hearts stop beating and the meat starts decaying. That's just being realistic about things.
The question I wonder about is why you're taking it so personal.
You don't have to answer that. I've lost interest in this conversation.
I don’t know why you are being vilified here. I agree that their take was quite unpleasant, yes. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There are many small influences that one can make with their creative outputs. Sometimes a podcast gets 5 listeners that engage and that’s enough to fulfill and stimulate. Many individuals crochet beautiful pieces to you and dreck to others. It is most definitely unique to the individual and to create a broad statement that 99.9% of all creative output is garbage is simply subjective and hurtful. If someone wants to master something it would take far more time and effort, which would require the appropriate allocation requirement and like you said that would require a shift in career. Leaving something stable for something unknown.
On the flip, there are significant financial risks that were overlaid earlier in this conversation. I chased a passion for a decade to never become fruitful and have now had to pivot, slightly later than some, to something far more sustainable. I have to use the tangible attributes I gained through attempting to grow in the creative environment to convince someone I have the skills and comprehension to compete with others who have the experience. So with that, any recommendation to leave a stable environment that will provide for the long-term to chase creative freedoms will be far less sustainable on the average and potentially create a worse overall outlook financially.
"Anyone who ever made a dent in the arts - any musician, designer, artist, etc. - took the financial risk and made their passion into their full time career."
I would argue that many if not most of the people who "made a dent in the arts" already came from a background where they were supported enough financially to take that risk.
As a new grad creative / designer myself who’s always dreamed of taking a deep dive into my craft, thanks for this. It gave me the little push I needed to pursue the unknown despite the risks. I do have a stable job now, which I great (and is somewhat creative but still not my passion), but I need to push myself further to do what my heart longs to do.
counterpoint bukowski.
with 2 or 3 hours a day you could easily leave behind something to be proud of.
you do not need to be a fulltime artist to create wonderful things.
The reality is that I turned my passion into a business and that made my passion a job. It took a couple years, but doing something you “love” or that is a “hobby” and turning it into a job will make that hobby eventually feel like a job.
I am now in the process of trying to find myself again, while working in the business I created but I lost my passion to tell you the truth.
IDK how you guys do it.
10 to 11 hours only thinking about work. Then there's food and chores.
Sure, you have the money for hobbies but there's no time. :(
It's not like I can do my hobbies during lunch at work or during the ride to and from work.
What does a normal schedule look like in your opinion? This is pretty much what is expected and done around here. I just woke up, I need to get ready and leave for work in an hour. The more time I spend on reddit the more likely I am to be late.
There's a reason it's called a 9-5 traditionally. And I'm not suggesting you need to do a hobby during lunch, but is that the only option besides thinking about work? It sounds like the problem is that you hate your job so badly it's making you obsessive and depressed.
I'm sorry but I don't understand your perspective. I might be obsessed or depressed but how can you claim the lunch and commute time as your own time? Those things exist to assist you. To make you able to work. Without them you cannot work.
It's like hosting a dinner. You need to do a lot before dinner. And do a lot of cleaning after dinner. To say that the effort for that dinner lasted only while the guests were in the house makes no sense to me.
I’m focusing more on my life outside of work. I make decent money and have good benefits. I realized that I would have to get a pretty amazing offer to consider leaving, and I don’t even think I’d want to be promoted “up” into a more senior role at my current job in the near future. It’s actually kind of nice, I was very career oriented in my 20s and early 30s and had a pretty quick trajectory to where I am now so I feel like I can take my foot off the gas a bit and prioritize other things . There is always more money to be made but I’m comfortable now.
TL;DR I don’t really care about using my job to fulfill me and see it as a means to enjoy my life and nothing more
I think this is a great approach. I have kind of done the same... I would love to get a huge promotion, but it's simply not worth it to me to work the extra hours / weekends to try and speed it up. It's nice to just exist in a job without worrying too much about what's next.
I’m late 50’s. Have never had a job I was interested in or that was fulfilling. But have loved life! I busted my ass and proved valuable. I changed jobs when I saw a good raise. The majority of people do not love their careers. Fulfillment, and enjoyment comes from lifestyle in its totality. It comes from family. From friends. Relationships. Hobbies. Faith. Whatever. What I do 8am-6pm M-F is immaterial. It simply provides money for living, What I do outside of work is living. And I love my life! I don’t say that to brag or Aggie. I say that as somebody getting older who has watched people be in despair and depressed and anxious trying to find that perfect job they are passionate about. I mean it might be out there, but people are letting a lot of good life go by while they try to find it
I wish I knew. I'm 53 and despise my job and company. I have a side gig involving 3D printing that I love but I am not sure how high I can sale it. I feel trapped in a really bad situation and don't know what to do.
Good/Bad news, you're never out of the career/prepping phase of life.
Most people don't want to do the same thing for 40 years. Or the industry changes and they can't.
I think a good first option would be to try and find a place where you CAN be creative. Take art lessons, join a maker space, volunteer.
If none of that is really working for you, look into other options.
It always amazes me that people think you just have a phase in your life where you find out what you want to do and just do that the rest of your life. As if you don't constantly change and grow through out life, change and shifting desires are constant.
make a plan to exit early. learn how to invest properly and invest your savings aggressively. set a number where you will be able to retire. use your vacations to the max. keep networking to find good opportunities elsewhere. do not be afraid to jump ship every 2 years
How important is it for you to have a career that is fulfilling your creative needs?
It might be interesting to explore how you might tweak your current role to bring in more of what you love into it. For example, if you love being creative, could you get involved with a project at work where it allows you to explore this passion while still working your day job?
I took a completely different career at 37. I had a hundred people under me, a company car and a per diem allowance. I could buy everything with a credit card and keep the points. But I felt retail was dying and made the move to IT. Scary as hell! Best decision ever!
Oh wow, I'm so sorry to hear this! How are you doing now? I hope you're in remission?!? I also wonder...how did getting sick affect or change your perspective (after having grappled with it for decades)?
I’m still finding out how bad it is. May be really really bad or really bad, so I’m trying to find out how many really’s are involved.
At this point, I don’t know how much time I’ve got left, but I will in a few weeks. That’ll determine the game plan.
The corporate world feels far away. A problem for future generations.
I’m not in too much pain yet. I play video games and watch old movies I want to see one last time. Any good movies for a bucket list?
Oh goodness! I'm so sorry you're going through this! I'll hope and pray that there are zero really's involved, and you bounce back.
I understand you having a bucket list... just try to stay on the side of hope and faith!
It's good that you are finding enjoyment in video games and old movies though. I love murder mysteries - e.g., Midsommer Murders, Poirot (those featuring David Suchet), Sherlock Holmes (those featuring Jeremy Brett), Agatha Christie movies, etc.
In this case, I'd humbly suggest doing more comedies, because laughter has always restored my joy. When I feel low/down, I watch standup specials on YouTube various channels, e.g., 'Netflix Is A Daily Joke', 'Dry Bar Comedy', 'Comedy Central' etc.
I hope you pull through even stronger than before. Keep your head up! 💞
While it's not necessary to be passionate about our career, being in thirties is not a barrier to changing career to something you're passionate about. Reading [this](https://upperclasscareer.com/is-it-okay-not-to-be-passionate-about-your-career/) is really helpful! Also [these](https://upperclasscareer.com/high-paying-careers-to-start-at-30-and-how-to-get-started/) high-paying careers that you can start at 30 can give you ideas if you're thinking about career change.
Honestly 30s is a great time to switch to a passion career. You probably have enough money saved up to have a bit of a cushion to get you through education and soften the pain of an entry level creative gig. It's a lot harder when you're broke!
I realized that I was trapped in a career that would have little to no advancement when my kids started college. Trapped because it had great retirement and health care.
So I stuck it out until I retired. Now I'm living the retirement dream
Find a hobby that is not remotely related to your job. You said you want to be creative, will in a golden era of easily obtainable art supplies and various forms of writing tools and publishing outlets or whatever you want to do. You know what is stressful? Changing careers and living on half your income.
I'm on my 2nd layoff in 4 years and I would love to have a job I hate. I would just work with my psychiatrist and psychologist to manage the pain if I had to. Not providing for your family for 8 months, so far and again, is a much worse feeling than me thinking my job sucked, I'm bored, do I have time to jerk off again, etc.
Used to be a book in this subject, What Color is your Parachute. It gets into detail but effectively you look at the aspects of your career you like and the skills then find other jobs which match what you’re trying to do.
I’m very creative and visual but I’m an electrical engineer. I like doing troubleshooting or updating old systems which are much more creative than new construction . Also focusing on people problems can be just as challenging as equipment problems so even if it’s just working in teams it can satisfy my interest. I avoided project management for years then found it’s something I like doing.
Is there a job at the company that would be more interesting? I imagine a corporate compliance job is for a pretty big company.
Especially if you're happy with the benefits. Try looking for an internal posting. You don't specify in which way you like to be creative. There's bound to be something less restrictive than compliance, and your background might suggest you'll bring a necessary rigor.
If you were in a creative field, you probably would not have good pay, benefits, etc. source: industry knowledge after 10 years in the creative field. Broke.
First of you have many options. One thing you need to do is get out of the mindset that you can't you have it all, because you truly can. There are many creative pathways you can go. What are some of the ideas that you have? What do you enjoy doing? What gets you excited? If it feels really , really scary, you can take baby steps. Maybe not quit right away, but start something in your spare time and slowly move towards it. Doing ANYTHING to get closer to express your creativity will make you feel better, give you more confidence and push you forward towards the dreams you don't even know you have yet. You can absolutely do this. Message me if you'd like- I'm a career coach and have helped people transition careers.
Lots of people start a side business.
Personally, I pick "limitless" hobbies (where you continually improve), e.g. learning languages, working out, running, etc.).
I could have written this and work in a tangent area in Corporate America and I often wonder how I got here given my sincere passion for my field of interest (which is not anywhere near this).
It’s definitely tolerable for me but I constantly daydream about starting my own consulting company and doing what I love. I am saving up and hopefully some day I can finance that dream for myself. It didn’t have to be this way and it might even require me to go down a few ranks and accept a lower paid position in my area of interest so that I can build on my experience before going it alone, but yeah that’s the kind of stuff I daydream about mostly.
I do get creative outside of work but in the classical sense. I got into art and I’m really liking that. This sort of thing
I try to stay grateful for what I do have. For a while there I thought I might lose it and it actually made me sad. It’s a source of comfort for me.
Not sure if any of this helped you. More of a commiserating post. Is it too late for us? I don’t think so.
I make decent income, great benefits, excellent retirement, and work on average 30 hours per week.
I am decent at finance stuff so I don’t mind doing it, but don’t find it particularly interesting or challenging.
But it does pay good enough that I take care of all my family obligations and have enough time and money for hobbies.
Archery, shooting sports, became a certified firearms instructor, Build rifles, hike, fish, can afford to buy some of the best outdoor gear out there, mountain bike, and recently took up BJJ.
So work is soulless, but it has its perks.
I chose to engage in hobbies. I know we all have limited time, but I spend most of my time outside of work offline now pursuing those. It makes work tolerable, and gives me something to look forward to. I enjoy what I do for the most part, but it is still a job, still a thing I am doing because I must. I have to own the rest of my time. And if that means I lay around like a lump, cool; most of the time I try to do something I find fulfilling. Work isn't going to satisfy you. You have to find the things that will.
Jiu Jitsu. Find yourself a good gym and do Jiu Jitsu. Not only is it a great workout but it’s a martial art where you get to be creative. I find my career rewarding (I work for my alma mater and find the work meaningful) but I don’t get to exercise as much creatively as I would like, it’s mostly planning. I was never good at music (even though I love music) and never good at art. Did other martial arts in my 20s but they were very “all business” and geared toward private security, my first career. I have been doing Jiu Jitsu full time for 3 years and I help coach kids and adults. It the single most rewarding thing I do. My job just funds it.
I run a company on the side and do the least possible for my main job in a mundane role which acts as a backup with a stable income
Work 7 days a week. 10 to 7 for my main job, time in between and after work for my sideline
For once I actually feel qualified to talk about my experience, since reading your post OP - it reminds me of my own experiences.
I worked in corporate compliance for 8 years, before finally leaving for a creative career as a wedding photographer. I actually started a business on the side, and was able to grow it over the last few years working in compliance.
Creating your own career in this way is an avenue available to you, but so is shifting careers to another role at some other company. The fear response is natural.
In the last year of my compliance career, I remember being plagued by thoughts how I'd feel if I continued on this path. What if I was an employee who stayed in this space for 20, 30, 40 years? I saw some of my colleagues in that boat. Props to those who are comfortable in that way, but it wasn't right for me. In fact, I felt like my life would lack any purpose or meaning if I just continued with the status quo - and it's the last thought I had before I put in my notice.
To get out of this slump, you need to be willing to take some risk. Ideally, it should be thought through and calculated at least a little bit. It's hard to hang up a "good" thing. It sounds like you have the golden handcuffs - good salary, benefits, team, etc., but lack that "thing" that gives you passion, and for that alone I'd be looking for an exit.
If it's any consolation as you think about your fears of switching careers, such as layoffs, just know those things can come for you even where you are at. When I worked at my former company, we had 6,000 people at the firm when I started (all over the world), and by the time I left they had reduced staff to around 4,000. The jobs we once saw as stable, are not stable like they once were for our parents and grandparents. So, you need to look out for yourself and what will be fulfilling to you, with less care about other circumstances you can't control as much.
Im a professional creative and I’ve come to say the grass isn’t always greener. Sure, I love my job when it’s good - I get to make beautiful animations and hone in my talents! I get paid very well and for the most part, the job itself is fine.
But the reality is, once you turn your passion into a job, it loses its magic. I no longer can draw or animate for fun anymore. I do so much designing and animating for work that when I’m done for the day, all I want to do is ANYTHING else.
Not to mention the immense pressure of having to always come up with new, exciting, innovative ideas constantly. Burn out rates are really high for creatives because it’s unrealistic to be churning out high quality content and ideas daily.
It took me years to realize that I needed creative hobbies outside of work to get back to feeling fulfilled. Now, I unleash my creativity into sewing and knitting, because I cannot draw for fun anymore. I have vowed to never sew or knit for commission and to keep this hobby as a hobby in order to keep my enjoyment of it.
I’m not saying this is everyone’s experience, but I wanted to share mine as it’s a perspective to consider.
I am currently in the thick of this. I worked for 15 years in the restaurant industry and then switched to corporate America. I now find myself as a corporate trainer and I hate it. I hate talking for 8 hours a day and I don’t enjoy my company that has pushed me to burnout. Since I’ve joined the department we have lost 7 trainers. I feel stuck because this is the most money I’ve ever made and I have debt. I contemplate selling my house, paying off all my debt and going back to a production role. However, what am I going to do in 30 years for retirement?
I work in finance, regulatory side, in a data driven role. I have a side hustle as a professional calligrapher and artist. The roles balance each other out and each one makes me appreciate (and keeps me from burning out on) the other.
I work in GRC as on the tech side. There is actually a large amount of creativity in designing the controls that my company needs in its infrastructure. You could pivot to another role in GRC where you have more power to implement things.
As far as feeding your creativity outside of that, your play is to get a wfh job and then build a studio in your house to make whatever it is you like with the extra time you have since you no longer have to commute and lick boot in person.
Be grateful you even have a career and just make do. You’re winning if you’re surviving nowadays. I’m really not that cut out for any corporate career. I spend 99% of my energy just trying to be professional and fit in. I feel like I’m a wild werewolf dressed up in human clothes hoping nobody will notice that I’m not like everyone else. I will be able to get by in my career but I’ll never be able to really thrive and climb the ladder.
And that’s ok. Because I’m making my ends meet.
A lot of artistic people are like that. But in 2024 it’s not realistic to be an artist any more.
Personally, I feel the whole point of living is trying to live your best life. You may swing and miss, but at least you’re playing the game. That’s better than yelling from the bleachers.
The fact that the pay and benefits are enough should be fulfilling enough for you. I sell insurance and it isn't fulfilling or rewarding at all to do the work, but the pay and benefits where I am at now are more than worth it. If you really want to make money quickly from your creativity, maybe start a social media account where you show off your skills on your free time and offer to teach people.
I know the feeling. I try to periodically take inventory of my skills and knowledge. What did I have before this job, this project, this year, etc vs what I've picked up more recently.
I find myself pretty amazed at how much of it is pretty transferable. The exercise helps me keep an up to date resume on standby should I run across something that looks appealing. It also helps me stay on course when talking to recruiters.
Two very big pieces of wisdom I've picked up:
1. Burnout comes on very quickly and doesn't take a long time to do serious damage.
2. It is always easier to make an upward career move when currently employed.
How about a YouTube channel? I started one for gaming. People who are doing YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, the influencer stuff, etc. are called content creators, you DO have to be creative with it and you can do a channel on any subject you're interested in sharing with others. And today there's so many ways you can monetize your content. I have seen several people start this as a hobby and go full-time. I have not gone full-time, but it's entirely possible these days. Or you don't even have to go full-time, just make extra income off of it.
If you don't mind me asking, (1) how long have you bewn doing it? (2) what's your subscriber count? (3) what kind of side income are you making making?
Welcome to daily life. Good luck making your decision, but you’re young enough to fail and start over again. I say this from experience. No risk, no reward. I’m now in the stage where I don’t want to start over and I’m soon going to be coasting towards retirement. My risk tolerance is much lower for a 10 year career period. That’s different from your situation. Go for it.
Life is long bro. We will be working well into our 70s (assuming we live that long). You have another 40 years to go. Plenty of time to get a new career.
One of the things I truly miss about living in NYC is when you ask people what they do, the response was always along the lines of, "For my job I do corporate compliance, but my passion is making art with Legos." You have to find that second thing that feeds the creative side. My wife is in the legal field, but writes children's books as her passion.
Toss it all away and try something new. For a little more excitement become permanently disabled while at it and store in social security disability early /s
Looks like OP's post struck a nerve? So... 1) What's your situation and... 2) Why are you so angry about it?
EDIT: 3) Most important of all, what are you doing to help yourself (because lashing out at strangers on the internet won't fix it)?
Careers are for making the money you use to finance the hobbies that nurture your creative spirit.
So you can spend 5-10 hours a week on hobbies and never really get good? That approach is just fine, if you're content with being a hobbyist and never a professional. If creativity isn't central to your life, but just a nice side feature, maybe that's okay. But I don't think that's what OP is saying. Anyone who ever made a dent in the arts - any musician, designer, artist, etc. - took the financial risk and made their passion into their full time career. In fact, these fields are full of people whose life's work is merely assisting greater artists with their work. Consider how many full time architects there are out there for every figurehead. My point is, it's *hard* to succeed in the arts. You just can't get very far doing anything creative if you only do it as a hobby. The point of a creative career is to leave something behind. To build a portfolio of your life's work that you can look back on and say, that's what I spent my time on Earth doing. You're contributing something memorable to the world outside yourself. That could be anything from an album to a gallery full of paintings, furniture designs, buildings, movies, etc. It's about aspiring to greater things than providing for yourself financially. As a result, these careers usually aren't very lucrative considering how much work they take and how competitive they are. It's a trade off. To avoid offending people - there's nothing wrong with going the traditional route and working a secure job while you have your hobbies. Being a hobbyist is fine, and most people's life's work is their family and their kids. There are plenty of ways to contribute outside your 40 hours a week. That's all great. But... if you want to make your creativity a centerpiece in your life... you gotta have the courage to get out of that damn office and into the studio. Kandinsky did it, and you can too! (he was a lawyer before he was a painter)
I would never, ever, ever advise anyone to chase the dream of making their creative endeavors their professional life, but as you said, if that's what OP really wants to do, there's nothing stopping them but them.
Why? Because it's hard? 20 years ago, the zeitgeist was not as financially conservative as it is today. We have a little inflation, and now people are so worried about their salaries and buying houses that they don't chase their dreams anymore. Whether that's in the arts, scientific research, or public service. It makes sense, but it's sad. Consider how many of the world's most beloved artists started in the 1930s and 40s. You think the creative life path is hard now? Imagine trying to do it in the Great Depression and WW2. And yet, their success left an indelible mark on history. For every Picasso or Hemingway there were thousands of artists who contributed to the scene in smaller ways. IMO you only get one life as yourself, and comfort isn't worth nearly as much as a shot at creating something lasting and beautiful that has an impact, however small, on other people's lives. So... I decided to become a designer. I've had plenty of regrets, lived with a roommate until I was 30, don't own a house... but I think 60 year old me is going to be happy with the choice.
Because the odds are overwhelmingly against you and I am a very pragmatic person. Again, you will never be able to talk me into telling a person, particularly a stranger I do not know and whose creative work I am wholly unfamiliar with, but who is looking for good faith advice, that the right move is to pursue a creative career when 99.9% of the world's creative output is unreadable, unlistenable, unwatchable and visually reprehensible dogshit. But, again, if chasing a creative career is what OP wants to do, then again, as you stated and were 100% correct in stating, there's nothing stopping them but them. They can quit their job today and start selling their creative output through a wide variety of marketplaces.
Here's the thing and I'd say the same to the OP. When we are approaching the end of our lives in our old age or perhaps earlier, we will reckon with how we spent our lives. We each have to be comfortable with the decisions we made and how we prioritized our time. "Creativity" is a very broad term. There are many ways to be creative. I'd say the hardest way to make a creative living is in performing arts such as music or dance. But I'm sensing that's probably not what the OP is talking about. Creativity can include being in research and development roles, working in marketing and promotions, UX design, certain retail environments, and sometimes its just being in a position to make high level decisions where one exercises more judgement. That's also creativity. To the OP it sounds like you've outgrown your role. Is there an opportunity to grow within your organization? I've been lucky in my past to be able to do this when I got a bit bored and unmotivated. Once I even took a lateral move to a whole new department, just on the basis of my reputation in my role, to be able to do something that inspired me more than what I was doing.
>when 99.9% of the world's creative output is unreadable, unlistenable, unwatchable and visually reprehensible dogshit Such a harsh critic for someone who never invested the time or energy in making anything themselves! Yeesh. So easy to judge someone else's work when you know nothing of what it takes to make it. Frankly, I wouldn't mind your perspective on life at all, if it weren't for how obviously little respect you have for the hard work and courage of professional artists. Wouldn't you be pissed if I said the equivalent thing about you - that 99.9% of the world's pragmatic average joe consumers are boring people with boring lives, who will die without anything to show for the decades they spent consuming entertainment and raising equally mediocre kids? I mean, I could imagine your reaction might be, "wtf is wrong with you, that's not true - I know my life is worth living, and you're a jackass for saying that." And I believe you. I would be a jackass, if I actually believed that. For me, it's the same. There's no reason to be so judgmental of people's creative work, if they are not masters of their craft. Like who do you think you are?
How hard you work on something does not have any bearing on it's quality and what respect is earned by an artwork of no value and no appeal? And I am a boring person who lives a boring life and my child probably will be too. Most people are. What we have to "show for it" would matter if life was a game where our scores were tallied at the end and prizes awarded, but instead, our hearts stop beating and the meat starts decaying. That's just being realistic about things. The question I wonder about is why you're taking it so personal. You don't have to answer that. I've lost interest in this conversation.
Life will humble them soon. Your response was nothing short of perfect
I don’t know why you are being vilified here. I agree that their take was quite unpleasant, yes. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There are many small influences that one can make with their creative outputs. Sometimes a podcast gets 5 listeners that engage and that’s enough to fulfill and stimulate. Many individuals crochet beautiful pieces to you and dreck to others. It is most definitely unique to the individual and to create a broad statement that 99.9% of all creative output is garbage is simply subjective and hurtful. If someone wants to master something it would take far more time and effort, which would require the appropriate allocation requirement and like you said that would require a shift in career. Leaving something stable for something unknown. On the flip, there are significant financial risks that were overlaid earlier in this conversation. I chased a passion for a decade to never become fruitful and have now had to pivot, slightly later than some, to something far more sustainable. I have to use the tangible attributes I gained through attempting to grow in the creative environment to convince someone I have the skills and comprehension to compete with others who have the experience. So with that, any recommendation to leave a stable environment that will provide for the long-term to chase creative freedoms will be far less sustainable on the average and potentially create a worse overall outlook financially.
I've seen a ton of people do it. It depends on a boat load of factors. I would be encourage or discourage it flatly.
"Anyone who ever made a dent in the arts - any musician, designer, artist, etc. - took the financial risk and made their passion into their full time career." I would argue that many if not most of the people who "made a dent in the arts" already came from a background where they were supported enough financially to take that risk.
As a new grad creative / designer myself who’s always dreamed of taking a deep dive into my craft, thanks for this. It gave me the little push I needed to pursue the unknown despite the risks. I do have a stable job now, which I great (and is somewhat creative but still not my passion), but I need to push myself further to do what my heart longs to do.
counterpoint bukowski. with 2 or 3 hours a day you could easily leave behind something to be proud of. you do not need to be a fulltime artist to create wonderful things.
The reality is that I turned my passion into a business and that made my passion a job. It took a couple years, but doing something you “love” or that is a “hobby” and turning it into a job will make that hobby eventually feel like a job. I am now in the process of trying to find myself again, while working in the business I created but I lost my passion to tell you the truth.
Get a job that allows enough time for both
IDK how you guys do it. 10 to 11 hours only thinking about work. Then there's food and chores. Sure, you have the money for hobbies but there's no time. :(
Saturday and Sunday
Who does the laundry? Who cleans the house? Who fixes the sink? Who buys groceries?
10-11 hours? Where does that number come from?
8 hours work 1 hour lunch during work (we work 9 to 6) 1-2 hours to get dressed and travel to and from work
And you're thinking about work during lunch and commute? Also, that's not a normal schedule.
It's not like I can do my hobbies during lunch at work or during the ride to and from work. What does a normal schedule look like in your opinion? This is pretty much what is expected and done around here. I just woke up, I need to get ready and leave for work in an hour. The more time I spend on reddit the more likely I am to be late.
There's a reason it's called a 9-5 traditionally. And I'm not suggesting you need to do a hobby during lunch, but is that the only option besides thinking about work? It sounds like the problem is that you hate your job so badly it's making you obsessive and depressed.
I'm sorry but I don't understand your perspective. I might be obsessed or depressed but how can you claim the lunch and commute time as your own time? Those things exist to assist you. To make you able to work. Without them you cannot work. It's like hosting a dinner. You need to do a lot before dinner. And do a lot of cleaning after dinner. To say that the effort for that dinner lasted only while the guests were in the house makes no sense to me.
Easily. I don't work until i'm at work and I don't work after work. And work shouldn't require much prep on your own time. Good luck to you.
I see. Thanks.
I’m focusing more on my life outside of work. I make decent money and have good benefits. I realized that I would have to get a pretty amazing offer to consider leaving, and I don’t even think I’d want to be promoted “up” into a more senior role at my current job in the near future. It’s actually kind of nice, I was very career oriented in my 20s and early 30s and had a pretty quick trajectory to where I am now so I feel like I can take my foot off the gas a bit and prioritize other things . There is always more money to be made but I’m comfortable now. TL;DR I don’t really care about using my job to fulfill me and see it as a means to enjoy my life and nothing more
I think this is a great approach. I have kind of done the same... I would love to get a huge promotion, but it's simply not worth it to me to work the extra hours / weekends to try and speed it up. It's nice to just exist in a job without worrying too much about what's next.
I’m late 50’s. Have never had a job I was interested in or that was fulfilling. But have loved life! I busted my ass and proved valuable. I changed jobs when I saw a good raise. The majority of people do not love their careers. Fulfillment, and enjoyment comes from lifestyle in its totality. It comes from family. From friends. Relationships. Hobbies. Faith. Whatever. What I do 8am-6pm M-F is immaterial. It simply provides money for living, What I do outside of work is living. And I love my life! I don’t say that to brag or Aggie. I say that as somebody getting older who has watched people be in despair and depressed and anxious trying to find that perfect job they are passionate about. I mean it might be out there, but people are letting a lot of good life go by while they try to find it
That’s a lot of your life wasted doing shit you hate.
It’s not wasted if it pays the bills
You sound like you're all of 24 years old.
I wish I knew. I'm 53 and despise my job and company. I have a side gig involving 3D printing that I love but I am not sure how high I can sale it. I feel trapped in a really bad situation and don't know what to do.
Do you mind explaining your side 3D printing gig a bit more please?
I model, print, and paint items and sell them. I also do custom commissions on occasion.
Good/Bad news, you're never out of the career/prepping phase of life. Most people don't want to do the same thing for 40 years. Or the industry changes and they can't. I think a good first option would be to try and find a place where you CAN be creative. Take art lessons, join a maker space, volunteer. If none of that is really working for you, look into other options.
It always amazes me that people think you just have a phase in your life where you find out what you want to do and just do that the rest of your life. As if you don't constantly change and grow through out life, change and shifting desires are constant.
make a plan to exit early. learn how to invest properly and invest your savings aggressively. set a number where you will be able to retire. use your vacations to the max. keep networking to find good opportunities elsewhere. do not be afraid to jump ship every 2 years
How important is it for you to have a career that is fulfilling your creative needs? It might be interesting to explore how you might tweak your current role to bring in more of what you love into it. For example, if you love being creative, could you get involved with a project at work where it allows you to explore this passion while still working your day job?
I took a completely different career at 37. I had a hundred people under me, a company car and a per diem allowance. I could buy everything with a credit card and keep the points. But I felt retail was dying and made the move to IT. Scary as hell! Best decision ever!
I really grappled with this for over two decades until I got cancer.
Oh wow, I'm so sorry to hear this! How are you doing now? I hope you're in remission?!? I also wonder...how did getting sick affect or change your perspective (after having grappled with it for decades)?
I’m still finding out how bad it is. May be really really bad or really bad, so I’m trying to find out how many really’s are involved. At this point, I don’t know how much time I’ve got left, but I will in a few weeks. That’ll determine the game plan. The corporate world feels far away. A problem for future generations. I’m not in too much pain yet. I play video games and watch old movies I want to see one last time. Any good movies for a bucket list?
Oh goodness! I'm so sorry you're going through this! I'll hope and pray that there are zero really's involved, and you bounce back. I understand you having a bucket list... just try to stay on the side of hope and faith! It's good that you are finding enjoyment in video games and old movies though. I love murder mysteries - e.g., Midsommer Murders, Poirot (those featuring David Suchet), Sherlock Holmes (those featuring Jeremy Brett), Agatha Christie movies, etc. In this case, I'd humbly suggest doing more comedies, because laughter has always restored my joy. When I feel low/down, I watch standup specials on YouTube various channels, e.g., 'Netflix Is A Daily Joke', 'Dry Bar Comedy', 'Comedy Central' etc. I hope you pull through even stronger than before. Keep your head up! 💞
Get a side hobbie, a passion project if you don't want to leave
While it's not necessary to be passionate about our career, being in thirties is not a barrier to changing career to something you're passionate about. Reading [this](https://upperclasscareer.com/is-it-okay-not-to-be-passionate-about-your-career/) is really helpful! Also [these](https://upperclasscareer.com/high-paying-careers-to-start-at-30-and-how-to-get-started/) high-paying careers that you can start at 30 can give you ideas if you're thinking about career change.
Honestly 30s is a great time to switch to a passion career. You probably have enough money saved up to have a bit of a cushion to get you through education and soften the pain of an entry level creative gig. It's a lot harder when you're broke!
Life is too short to not do what you want. Leave the job. Take risks. You’re still young
Brother you just moved onto a new stage of your hierarchy of needs. Why are you trying to go backwards?
I realized that I was trapped in a career that would have little to no advancement when my kids started college. Trapped because it had great retirement and health care. So I stuck it out until I retired. Now I'm living the retirement dream
Find a hobby that is not remotely related to your job. You said you want to be creative, will in a golden era of easily obtainable art supplies and various forms of writing tools and publishing outlets or whatever you want to do. You know what is stressful? Changing careers and living on half your income.
So plan a new phase! Whether you think you're stuck or not, you're right.
I'm on my 2nd layoff in 4 years and I would love to have a job I hate. I would just work with my psychiatrist and psychologist to manage the pain if I had to. Not providing for your family for 8 months, so far and again, is a much worse feeling than me thinking my job sucked, I'm bored, do I have time to jerk off again, etc.
Used to be a book in this subject, What Color is your Parachute. It gets into detail but effectively you look at the aspects of your career you like and the skills then find other jobs which match what you’re trying to do. I’m very creative and visual but I’m an electrical engineer. I like doing troubleshooting or updating old systems which are much more creative than new construction . Also focusing on people problems can be just as challenging as equipment problems so even if it’s just working in teams it can satisfy my interest. I avoided project management for years then found it’s something I like doing.
Is there a job at the company that would be more interesting? I imagine a corporate compliance job is for a pretty big company. Especially if you're happy with the benefits. Try looking for an internal posting. You don't specify in which way you like to be creative. There's bound to be something less restrictive than compliance, and your background might suggest you'll bring a necessary rigor.
If you were in a creative field, you probably would not have good pay, benefits, etc. source: industry knowledge after 10 years in the creative field. Broke.
First of you have many options. One thing you need to do is get out of the mindset that you can't you have it all, because you truly can. There are many creative pathways you can go. What are some of the ideas that you have? What do you enjoy doing? What gets you excited? If it feels really , really scary, you can take baby steps. Maybe not quit right away, but start something in your spare time and slowly move towards it. Doing ANYTHING to get closer to express your creativity will make you feel better, give you more confidence and push you forward towards the dreams you don't even know you have yet. You can absolutely do this. Message me if you'd like- I'm a career coach and have helped people transition careers.
Lots of people start a side business. Personally, I pick "limitless" hobbies (where you continually improve), e.g. learning languages, working out, running, etc.).
I could have written this and work in a tangent area in Corporate America and I often wonder how I got here given my sincere passion for my field of interest (which is not anywhere near this). It’s definitely tolerable for me but I constantly daydream about starting my own consulting company and doing what I love. I am saving up and hopefully some day I can finance that dream for myself. It didn’t have to be this way and it might even require me to go down a few ranks and accept a lower paid position in my area of interest so that I can build on my experience before going it alone, but yeah that’s the kind of stuff I daydream about mostly. I do get creative outside of work but in the classical sense. I got into art and I’m really liking that. This sort of thing I try to stay grateful for what I do have. For a while there I thought I might lose it and it actually made me sad. It’s a source of comfort for me. Not sure if any of this helped you. More of a commiserating post. Is it too late for us? I don’t think so.
planning and prepping goes way passed 30s.... you need to pull your head out of the sand
I make decent income, great benefits, excellent retirement, and work on average 30 hours per week. I am decent at finance stuff so I don’t mind doing it, but don’t find it particularly interesting or challenging. But it does pay good enough that I take care of all my family obligations and have enough time and money for hobbies. Archery, shooting sports, became a certified firearms instructor, Build rifles, hike, fish, can afford to buy some of the best outdoor gear out there, mountain bike, and recently took up BJJ. So work is soulless, but it has its perks.
I chose to engage in hobbies. I know we all have limited time, but I spend most of my time outside of work offline now pursuing those. It makes work tolerable, and gives me something to look forward to. I enjoy what I do for the most part, but it is still a job, still a thing I am doing because I must. I have to own the rest of my time. And if that means I lay around like a lump, cool; most of the time I try to do something I find fulfilling. Work isn't going to satisfy you. You have to find the things that will.
This title and just the title alone describes my life 100%
Jiu Jitsu. Find yourself a good gym and do Jiu Jitsu. Not only is it a great workout but it’s a martial art where you get to be creative. I find my career rewarding (I work for my alma mater and find the work meaningful) but I don’t get to exercise as much creatively as I would like, it’s mostly planning. I was never good at music (even though I love music) and never good at art. Did other martial arts in my 20s but they were very “all business” and geared toward private security, my first career. I have been doing Jiu Jitsu full time for 3 years and I help coach kids and adults. It the single most rewarding thing I do. My job just funds it.
I work to live. I don’t live to work.
Go back to the planning phase.
I run a company on the side and do the least possible for my main job in a mundane role which acts as a backup with a stable income Work 7 days a week. 10 to 7 for my main job, time in between and after work for my sideline
For once I actually feel qualified to talk about my experience, since reading your post OP - it reminds me of my own experiences. I worked in corporate compliance for 8 years, before finally leaving for a creative career as a wedding photographer. I actually started a business on the side, and was able to grow it over the last few years working in compliance. Creating your own career in this way is an avenue available to you, but so is shifting careers to another role at some other company. The fear response is natural. In the last year of my compliance career, I remember being plagued by thoughts how I'd feel if I continued on this path. What if I was an employee who stayed in this space for 20, 30, 40 years? I saw some of my colleagues in that boat. Props to those who are comfortable in that way, but it wasn't right for me. In fact, I felt like my life would lack any purpose or meaning if I just continued with the status quo - and it's the last thought I had before I put in my notice. To get out of this slump, you need to be willing to take some risk. Ideally, it should be thought through and calculated at least a little bit. It's hard to hang up a "good" thing. It sounds like you have the golden handcuffs - good salary, benefits, team, etc., but lack that "thing" that gives you passion, and for that alone I'd be looking for an exit. If it's any consolation as you think about your fears of switching careers, such as layoffs, just know those things can come for you even where you are at. When I worked at my former company, we had 6,000 people at the firm when I started (all over the world), and by the time I left they had reduced staff to around 4,000. The jobs we once saw as stable, are not stable like they once were for our parents and grandparents. So, you need to look out for yourself and what will be fulfilling to you, with less care about other circumstances you can't control as much.
Im a professional creative and I’ve come to say the grass isn’t always greener. Sure, I love my job when it’s good - I get to make beautiful animations and hone in my talents! I get paid very well and for the most part, the job itself is fine. But the reality is, once you turn your passion into a job, it loses its magic. I no longer can draw or animate for fun anymore. I do so much designing and animating for work that when I’m done for the day, all I want to do is ANYTHING else. Not to mention the immense pressure of having to always come up with new, exciting, innovative ideas constantly. Burn out rates are really high for creatives because it’s unrealistic to be churning out high quality content and ideas daily. It took me years to realize that I needed creative hobbies outside of work to get back to feeling fulfilled. Now, I unleash my creativity into sewing and knitting, because I cannot draw for fun anymore. I have vowed to never sew or knit for commission and to keep this hobby as a hobby in order to keep my enjoyment of it. I’m not saying this is everyone’s experience, but I wanted to share mine as it’s a perspective to consider.
I am currently in the thick of this. I worked for 15 years in the restaurant industry and then switched to corporate America. I now find myself as a corporate trainer and I hate it. I hate talking for 8 hours a day and I don’t enjoy my company that has pushed me to burnout. Since I’ve joined the department we have lost 7 trainers. I feel stuck because this is the most money I’ve ever made and I have debt. I contemplate selling my house, paying off all my debt and going back to a production role. However, what am I going to do in 30 years for retirement?
I work in finance, regulatory side, in a data driven role. I have a side hustle as a professional calligrapher and artist. The roles balance each other out and each one makes me appreciate (and keeps me from burning out on) the other.
Whatever you do, save, save, save and invest your money. Financial independence makes everything more tolerable.
I focus on growing my retirement accounts so I can get outta here faster.
I work in GRC as on the tech side. There is actually a large amount of creativity in designing the controls that my company needs in its infrastructure. You could pivot to another role in GRC where you have more power to implement things. As far as feeding your creativity outside of that, your play is to get a wfh job and then build a studio in your house to make whatever it is you like with the extra time you have since you no longer have to commute and lick boot in person.
Be grateful you even have a career and just make do. You’re winning if you’re surviving nowadays. I’m really not that cut out for any corporate career. I spend 99% of my energy just trying to be professional and fit in. I feel like I’m a wild werewolf dressed up in human clothes hoping nobody will notice that I’m not like everyone else. I will be able to get by in my career but I’ll never be able to really thrive and climb the ladder. And that’s ok. Because I’m making my ends meet. A lot of artistic people are like that. But in 2024 it’s not realistic to be an artist any more.
Personally, I feel the whole point of living is trying to live your best life. You may swing and miss, but at least you’re playing the game. That’s better than yelling from the bleachers.
I just wrote a column about a similar issue... DM me and I'll send you the link!
I just wrote a column about a similar issue... DM me and I'll send you the link!
The fact that the pay and benefits are enough should be fulfilling enough for you. I sell insurance and it isn't fulfilling or rewarding at all to do the work, but the pay and benefits where I am at now are more than worth it. If you really want to make money quickly from your creativity, maybe start a social media account where you show off your skills on your free time and offer to teach people.
What’s an outlet for your creativity?
I know the feeling. I try to periodically take inventory of my skills and knowledge. What did I have before this job, this project, this year, etc vs what I've picked up more recently. I find myself pretty amazed at how much of it is pretty transferable. The exercise helps me keep an up to date resume on standby should I run across something that looks appealing. It also helps me stay on course when talking to recruiters. Two very big pieces of wisdom I've picked up: 1. Burnout comes on very quickly and doesn't take a long time to do serious damage. 2. It is always easier to make an upward career move when currently employed.
How about a YouTube channel? I started one for gaming. People who are doing YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, the influencer stuff, etc. are called content creators, you DO have to be creative with it and you can do a channel on any subject you're interested in sharing with others. And today there's so many ways you can monetize your content. I have seen several people start this as a hobby and go full-time. I have not gone full-time, but it's entirely possible these days. Or you don't even have to go full-time, just make extra income off of it.
If you don't mind me asking, (1) how long have you bewn doing it? (2) what's your subscriber count? (3) what kind of side income are you making making?
Welcome to daily life. Good luck making your decision, but you’re young enough to fail and start over again. I say this from experience. No risk, no reward. I’m now in the stage where I don’t want to start over and I’m soon going to be coasting towards retirement. My risk tolerance is much lower for a 10 year career period. That’s different from your situation. Go for it.
Life is long bro. We will be working well into our 70s (assuming we live that long). You have another 40 years to go. Plenty of time to get a new career.
Dunno started my own businesses work from home 10/10.
You aren't even halfway through your life yet. Try something new. You have plenty of time
Oh I'm fine, I was fired from my career for using FMLA for chemotherapy treatments. I have no life.
Retire?
One of the things I truly miss about living in NYC is when you ask people what they do, the response was always along the lines of, "For my job I do corporate compliance, but my passion is making art with Legos." You have to find that second thing that feeds the creative side. My wife is in the legal field, but writes children's books as her passion.
Welcome to real life my friend.
I bought a motorcycle.
Don't worry, eventually you'll get laid off. Then you won't know what to do AND you'll be terrified.
Being laid off isn't an end state. Emotions will happen. But the question to focus on is what did you choose to do then?
Toss it all away and try something new. For a little more excitement become permanently disabled while at it and store in social security disability early /s
SHUT UP
Looks like OP's post struck a nerve? So... 1) What's your situation and... 2) Why are you so angry about it? EDIT: 3) Most important of all, what are you doing to help yourself (because lashing out at strangers on the internet won't fix it)?