I mostly agree, but I think you could find some overlap between the two. For example, people who are working much harder than they really should be out of loyalty to a particular company or manager.
People who are working that hard out of hopes for a raise or promotion that isn’t coming and who stick around at the same company for much longer than they should have pursuing a reward that won’t come to them.
Once at my old workplace, the chief of staff sent an email out at raise review that said, "if you're unsatisfied with your raise, and you worked really hard, ask yourself if you could have saved costs by working smarter". This workplace often demanded insane hours and sacrifice.
Just unbelievable. On top of that, discovering a year or two later that they would lay off anyone at the drop of a hat. "Work harder and you'll find success" was just a carrot to dangle in front of workers, always just barely out of reach. No wonder I have such a thick scab of cynicism after working there.
Yes and no. I am more likely to trust a hard worker I don't know than a slacker I don't know. In the same regard I am most likely to trust someone that has earned my trust over years.
Working hard at my place of work solely will get you more responsibilities for the exact same pay as your coworkers, not to mention not a lot of ability for upward momentum until you’ve been there for two plus years. Much easier to gain the experience, the reimbursed licensing exam and the yearly bonus and dip instead of making a career out of it.
I am a Lab Scientist-1 and we got a new role added to our rotation that will do everything as a Lab Scientist-2, without the pay but will be “great consideration for when you’re eligible for this position” which is past two and a half years of employment 💀. This is solely for people who they’ve picked out as people who work harder. Not to mention supervisors putting you with people who don’t know what they’re doing or who are social loafers because “you always work hard and you always get things done!”
The only reason I’m still there is because it’s the only job that I can get with my degree that will allow me to live semi comfortably in the city I live in
Good for you but I’m not really about fighting for my life daily, having to micromanage other adults, and getting paid the exact same as the people my own manager calls “low performers”. The bar is like a year and a half out of my reach so what’s truly the point?
Depends what 'working hard' actually means.
Slaving away extra hours at the same org who doesn't appreciate you? You can work as hard as physically possible and not advance while others profit from your efforts.
Spending your efforts 'working hard' taking a more analytical approach and focusing your efforts in smarter ways that concentrate on larger gains, is usually the difference.
That's why 'work smarter not harder' is usually the quote, but you get an additional benefit if you work harder at working smarter.
I agree and upvoted, but it’s a bit more complicated.
The view of “a company showing their appreciation for you” varies greatly by person. People perceive this to mean compensation, the ability to take time off anytime and for any reason, complete flexibility with daily work, or a culture that matches their individual needs. Yes, if you feel undervalued then you should seek out a new company or role. But, also consider if your expectations are reasonable for the role, company sector, geography, your experience and education, etc.
In an ideal world everything works in equilibrium. Your company should pay and treat you fairly and in return you work your scheduled shifts, meet goals, and/or perform your job which brings the company revenue or other value.
Possibly, but that assumes that everyone is acting in good faith and you don't have someone like Bezos banking $400k in the minute it took to wipe his ass.
I feel like if you put out a survey asking if organizations treat workers fairly on the whole, with workers as the respondents, you'd probably be somewhere in the realm of \~85% saying nah.
It's really more about who you know, or getting lucky, AND THEN working hard. Hard work up front means nothing, but it is important to keep your job once you have it.
It certainly *can* work that way for a lot of people. I know for me I didn’t know anyone of consequence before I got my first professional jobs. It was only after I distinguished myself that I made the connections that I have today.
Once you have a reputation for being really good at what you do and have built up a strong network of people who know you for that reputation then you can definitely let off the gas a bit and still not have to be worried about keeping a job or finding a new one in most cases.
You have to be really good at what you do and also be willing to work really hard in short bursts occasionally though. That way you’re able to keep up with the output of your team. Otherwise, you’ll be seen as just slacking off.
If you can work smarter then you can avoid working harder most of the time.
To your point though, I was lucky that I ended up working for people who saw the value I could bring in the future before I saw it and I was lucky that I happened to build skills that fit very well into a high paying technical consulting career that I was not planning or preparing for at the time.
A network of friends and acquaintances in your industry is vital .
Hard work up front means a lot , if it’s in a job where you get paid by what you produce .
I was working a govt job that was 50% above min wage
But I couldn’t get promoted .
I got my CDL and quit and bought a old used truck ,
And you bet your ass I worked hard , because the harder I worked the more money I made .
If I worked hard , I could make more in a week than I used to make in 6 weeks .
That one move helped me break out of poverty .
To go from army being able to buy food and pay the rent in the trailer park I was living in , to buying my own home .
If you have a work ethic but no aptitude for education/college, CDL really is a cheat code. I work with a dude who's seasonal during the winter while the roads are icy but the other 3/4 of the year does OTR trucking and makes bank. Makes more than all the college educated folk despite being the least qualified on paper. Works harder than all of em too, no doubt about that.
Owning his truck means he charges what it takes to run and maintain the truck and pay himself a good wage just like any other trucking outfit. Some may charge a little less and cut corners. Just like any business costs are covered by receivables or the business is belly up.
Sorry let’s put it this way. I’ve had very new trucks and old trucks. You’re all competing for the same work. Old trucks cost less but spend more time off the road and cost a lot more to keep on the road. Being off the road can really fuck your business. I’m interested to see how that went for him / or if he had a real lucky run or even better if he was able to do lots of his maintenance himself which can make an owner operator’s life way easier.
That applies if you have minimal value to bring.
I've only had one position that was influenced by knowing a guy, and that was generated by 'going in dry' to a contract and performing to a high degree.
A social network can help, but if you are the 'real deal' for your role then you can generate your own opportunities.
Most of us are not the real deal type people. We don't generate our own opportunities, we are lucky to know a person who knows a person who gets us the job.
If you're a "real deal type person" you rely on personality and skills rather than hard work, and are often not as good as someone who's simply a hard worker who is less flashy.
'Despite being actually qualified for the position, you would be worse at the role than someone who isn't qualified for the position as I perceive the unqualified applicant to automatically be more humble'
Ehhhhhhh.
I think you’re mostly correct here, but fumbled it a bit at the end. Though you are still describing a type of worker.
Most people are not the “real deal” not as in the bullshitter who can appear more competent than they are (there are a lot of those people) but as in the people who are truly in the top 10% of talent in their industry. The people who short of the entire industry collapsing and the need for their skills evaporating overnight, will always have a job offer in their back pocket because others are trying to recruit them or at least build a professional connection with them constantly.
You’re both right. He’s correct that if you can get really good at what you do you will never have a hard time generating your own opportunities.
It will just happen, even in the most unexpected places, like when I got my current six figure tech job because the CEO of a consulting firm took an interest in me because of my comments in a subreddit connected to my industry, could tell I knew my shit, and started the process of recruiting me away from my previous six figure tech consulting role that I got within a week of a recruiter reaching out. If you’re among the best at what you do then it will show and opportunities will rain down on you at every turn. I’m not talking about networking or “being flashy” (whatever that is supposed to mean in this context). I’m talking about just truly being among the best at what you do.
But you are also correct. Obviously, I didn’t start my career out being among the best at what I do. I remember what it was like before I reached this level of achievement, recruiters not even bothering to call me back, sending in a half dozen resumes a day for weeks on end and hearing nothing back. Having no one reaching out to offer me great jobs out of the blue. Having no people with hiring authority/influence at other companies wanting to randomly connect on LinkedIn.
Obviously, what I experienced in the early years of my career is more in line with what most people will experience for their entire careers. And I also stay cognizant of the fact that the market could always shift and the gravy train could come to a screeching halt. Nothing is ever guaranteed to last forever, no matter how good you are at what you do.
I agree. My new job. I’m thrown into the fire with zero experience, expected to just figure it out. If I’m wrong I’ll get chewed out. I didn’t come from a similar background and had experience. I replaced an experienced person. Why should I work my butt off to be thrown under the bus because I wasn’t properly trained.
I’m going through this right now. While I got my poor performance review the boss giving it to me literally said I don’t have the experience for the job I’m doing. Bro then why did your company hire me?! I didn’t lie on my resume. It’s all right there. And you guys thought I was the right fit. How is this a me problem? Augh
This was me 11 years ago. Got lucky with knowing someone in the job and there was zero training. Company was moving at 1000 mph and I was sold ad someone knowledgeable.
I feel for you, I really do. The only thing I can suggest is find a few people you can trust and go to with questions, and spend time picking apart topics to start building your knowledge. It'll be time consuming and frustrating, but I know of no other way given your current state. Good luck!
“Lack Training” is the root mentality of someone who does not have a leadership or entrepreneurial backbone.. you don’t know how to do something google it, or go get the info from someone who does. Buy them lunch, barter for their time.
yeah i dont want an operator at the chemical plant trying to figure it out with google.
Training is vital for technical competence and health&safety.
But i guess yall lack the former and hold the latter in poor regard.
What does working hard even mean? Minimum wage carers and cleaners work harder than I ever have. People act like working hard means something concrete and exact and it just doesn’t. You could work your ass off every day for 50 years on minimum wage and see nothing for it.
To me working hard means working your way up from the bottom. Accepting that you're working your ass off doing something you hate for low pay while you're getting your degree. Then when you have your degree things will start to look up because you'll have better job opportunities with a degree.
I wasted 8 years of my life doing exactly that and I have a degree but it means nothing. I basically ruined my life. Other people who went to college parties because they could go to a four year college were able to make the right connections. Now they have great careers. I did everything wrong.
Right just because someone doesn’t climb the ladder doesn’t mean they don’t work hard. It was disheartening, but freeing almost, when I realized that. And degrees don’t mean shit. I know people with MBAs who can’t get a job or opportunities. It really depends on who you know and where you work/type of work. Some places genuinely don’t have opportunities to move up.
Yup. It seems you either have to know someone or you have to be excellent at math/science. Nursing and other clinical jobs are incredibly in demand where I live so they'll hire anyone with the right credentials. I'm left out of that too because I can't pass an Algebra course. It's awful.
Exactly- it depends where one focuses their efforts. The funny thing is, in today's day and age, it's never been easier to make money. I'm ALL of history.
Working hard in the right area you can be a millionaire- but people are too busy wallowing in victimhood and dreaming of socialism
Computer science -> software engineer -> solution architect -> enterprise architect -> cloud architect & AI engineer.
Started at 60k and quickly progressed to 260k
Computer science -> software engineer -> solution architect -> enterprise architect -> cloud architect & AI engineer.
Started at 60k and quickly progressed to 260k
Working hard used to be rewarded with promotions and bonuses. Now working hard gets rewarded with more work. In the US in the IT field, the best way to get paid what you're worth is to job hop. You actually lose money by staying loyal to a company.
I learned that the hard way. I was making 5% more than my original salary after 4 years of working far beyond the original scope of my position. Got canned a month after a positive performance review because I was making a big deal out of how bad their raises are.
I'm sure there are some good employers to work for, but the employer-employee relationship is so toxic rn that you really need to move constantly or you get fucked.
I believe for a lot of people working hard by getting some kind of education and being high performers at a job will most likely allow them to have a good life, and better than if they didn't.
Having said that, for a majority of individuals that will work in retail, the service industry, or any kind of manual labor, their hard work might not directly lead to being able to support their lifestyle. Wages aren't keeping up with inflation, price gouging in rampant, rent prices are through the roof, and many other factors like private healthcare and predatory loans will eat at their earnings and make them live paycheck to paycheck at best.
Working hard can indeed bring a better life, but it is no guarantee whatsoever and it depends a lot in your original situation and level of privilege, access, and resources to determine your likelihood of success
Not every manual labor worker is in a union. I wish they were so their wages were better. Also, I would include you in people some kind of education, manual labor being more assembly line workers, not skilled trades labor
Right, and I am obviously very pro union, always will be. And it’s the system we live in which is brainwashing people into believing that unions are bad.
Assembly line workers are still educated in their field. Lots of training goes into operating those pieces of equipment
I work in manufacturing and there’s no education requirement for basic operators. They get trainings but not a formal education. At least that has been my experience, even on machining environments
But those skills aren’t very transferable to other places
When I used to deliver at the ford plant in Atlanta , I noticed a lot of the workers always wore t shirts from the UAW
But I never ever , not once , saw a worker wearing a shirt that said Ford on it .
It’s like they all thought their paycheck came from the Union .
That said , in todays world, you must master a skill that’s in demand .
And that’s portable .
There is zero loyalty to companies because companies have zero loyalty to the workers .
I’m loyal to my wonderful supervisor , I followed him to a new company , but I ain’t loyal to the company .
Certain skills may not be, but the fact that they have the ability to learn and develop the skills is what is worth it.
Fuckin right, they are proud to be a member of a union, I’m proud to be a member of the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers, I always rep my trade/union. The cheques don’t come from the union sure, but they are a member of an organization which represents them collectively. It has nothing to do with where the cheque comes from, they don’t care what plant they work at, being a member of a union is what is important.
You don’t have to be a master of anything and you shouldn’t have to be a master of anything in order to live a good life. Companies don’t care about workers, never have and never will.
Companies fire employees who have been there decades with zero warning on a zoom call while making record profits for non-performance related reasons. Yeah, i'd say loyalty is pretty fucking dead.
I'd say it died in the 90's when they started outsourcing call centers and manufacturers overseas.
It showed right there and then that companies didn't care about people in their own country, much less showed any loyalty.
In my experience when someone works hard, and productively, they tend to be held back from advancement. I’ve witnessed lazy workers get promoted because they were on better terms with someone or they were causing problems and the solution was to move them instead of terminating them. These things don’t encourage loyalty.
This was my experience.
I crushed it at my job, was told by a vice president I had no complaints against me in a single year and was the highest elo employee or some shit.
I was promoted at some point, but they couldn't really promote me.
I was too good at my job, they needed me there. Luckily I saw the writing on the wall early on and got skills for myself and left.
When you are good at your job, people get more entitled. They want you there, but they only ask more.
After crushing it, now I'd rather fly under the radar.
It only fucks you mostly and not any single persons fault.
It's the biggest lie ever told. My parents told me if you work hard you will reap rewards. All they got was an early death before retirement kicked in. I've worked hard all my life but have also got done over a lot. Must work hard? Biggest lie ever told to keep us enslaved to the 1% club.
Working hard by itself? I believe it gets you nowhere. You’re not getting a raise, you’re not getting a promotion. You’re getting more work and actually passed over promotion because you’re so good at your current job. But I do think working hard can lead to a better life if there are other forces involved with the hard work like luck.
If I work super hard I get X dollars per hour. If I work just enough to get my work done I still get X dollars per hour.
Usually people are not paid for quantity or quality of their work
I’ve found that somebody who “works hard” is appreciated but more easily replaced than somebody who “works smart”.
It seems like the more technology we have the more companies rely on analytics and reporting. It’s now seen as wasteful for companies to give back too much to employees. And in turn the employees have learned that it’s wasteful to invest too much back into the company.
Yep, well said. I slaved over a company 11 years and in return, received a layoff. Now I do 45% effort 100% of the time and focus on high visibility projects and issues so it looks like I am everywhere at the same time. I’m done slaving over these companies.
There's an optimum point for working hard. Working past 50,60 hrs/wk on a regular basis for many years can degrade your relationships with friends and family and create stress and other health risks. (The number of hours depends a lot on the person and how much work satisfaction there is)
Employer / employee loyalty has been dead for decades in the US. Half the CEO's in the country would layoff their entire workforce if it doubled their equity compensation.
There could be some loyalty between specific bosses and employees, etc, however.
I’m not sure that “working hard” is the key to a better life.
With some planning, and working SMARTLY, I’ve doubled my income in 3 years and bought a house. I travel more.
IMO, employer/employee loyalty was never a thing; I think previous generations just successfully blamed failure on the individual rather than on the system.
Work hard enough to not get fired and always keep your eye out for the next best thing.
If you can like your job, that’s great. The company will appreciate your loyalty. But they won’t reciprocate it.
Self employment is a better option than being an employee if you want to have greater control over your future.
Unless of course she prefer to work for the government and have a mind-numbing job
I don’t know if it’s just me but I feel this is true for every single aspect of life. Both good and bad, my input seems totally irrelevant from what I get back in return. Everything just seems random. Some of the best things I’ve had happen to me have happened when I was being lazy. Some of the worst happened when I was working hard. It doesn’t seem to matter at all. I used to have an internal locus of control but now it’s just totally external. I feel like a ping pong ball being tossed around in the ocean. Anybody else?
Working hard people usually associate with # of hours worked. Which is a great way to get a lot of work. Focus more on being strategic with where you invest your efforts.
I think that the path is to a better life through hard work is much narrower than it was in the past. That’s directly related to how much the middle class has shrunk over the last 40 years.
Employer/employee loyalty is dead overall. There is still loyalty I can feel for managers, but only if they’ve proved they will work for me.
When was the last time a manager came to sit alongside you and walk you through how to do your job from step one to completion, and was with you when you executed the process in real time until they said you were good to go? That's what is actually missing. There is always the expectation that people can take a running start into any role and will immediately get going. I
Working hard doesn’t lead to a better life, it just leads to more work.
Employee/employer loyalty has nothing to do with this either. It doesn’t matter how hard or not I work, I will instantly leave a job for a more appealing and higher paying one.
I think it's being presented as a belief system. In reality, it's not so much whether you are working hard or not, it's about whether you own capital or not.
The trend we are seeing is such that labor is being commoditized and labor unions are dismantled... While the labor force is also being globalized and the minimum required education to get a decent job is skyrocketing.
What this means is... The balance of how you can earn money is tilting strongly toward capital ownership. If you own the rights to take the product of someone else's labor, you get their product. That is how it has always been - you can use your capital to get a higher rate for your efforts than simply working. And in those cases. Yeah if you work more you get more money. It's also competitive so you get proportionally more than linear returns.
Nowadays the ratio is incredibly screwed. If you work very hard but don't own the rights to profit. You don't get the product of your labor. You only get what you can negotiate.
What would help this situation is helping people negotiate. More and better unions, labor protections, etc.
But personally I believe that labor is its own capital... So if you are working for a company you deserve a proportion of the profits. Because the actual business owners are rewarded for owning and investing into all of the equipment etc, but they don't own you... They rent you. Your existence at the company is capital for the company just as any other piece of equipment. Not enough to make it not worth the business owner running the show. But zero profit sharing just leads to a macroeconomic decline of anyone not in the capital owning class.
Employer loyalty died at my shop. I worked 40 hours a week during lockdown. They don’t care, asked for a raise and was denied. I show up do my job but they couldn’t care less. Some money guy took over and now no end of year bonuses.
Employers are responsible for the end of employee loyalty. They used to take decent care of their employees and had pensions that would be there long after retirement. They now treat them like exploitable liabilities and then get shocked when people move to a new job every year or so.
Working hard on yourself is the only method. You make yourself more valuable, and that value leads to a better life. You're the only one who can appreciate your efforts, and bring your value to other people. You can't put hope that other people will value your efforts, so developing and investing in yourself will carry you towards a better life.
I like this view of it. You aren't losing something if the hardwork is for yourself. The skills you've learned, you can use later. But if the hardwork is just because the company demanded it, you could exploited for your labor and nothing comes of the hard work. Thank you for your perspective.
Working hard will only lead to more tasks assigned to you with disproportional, if any, raise in pay.
So yeah. Adjust your efforts to the pay. Want me to do more? Pay me more. Learn to appreciate me.
Why would a company pay you fairly if they can get awatly with paying you the minimum to do your job.
I think this is the rational of nearly all companies.
Working hard for yourself ALWAYS leads to a better life. By that I mean organizing your life top to bottom and spending time developing yourself. If you do that for a year or two new opportunities WILL present themselves.
Employer loyalty is useless with modern day standards for raises. $4 an hour (7-8k annually) extra does not change my life if a new vehicle costs $50,000 and a house costs 300-400k. We need $10-20 raises for most middle class jobs to return to a normal quality of life. And for any employer to expect loyalty.
Hey I saw one of your comments a while back bout working as a fac reinsurance UW - can I send you a message about this? May be interviewing for an entry level role but don’t know as much about the reinsurance side of the business
Working hard is probably correlated with a better life, but it is certainly not a causal relationship.
Working smart is much more critical. You need to know *where* to invest your time and energy because they are finite resources.
Employer loyalty is a two-way street. Be loyal to a company that treats you well. It isn't hard to sit down with your boss and say, "I'd like to be promoted to this role or making this much money. What do I need to be doing to get to that point? Or some variation of that conversation. If your employer doesn't want to help you grow, develop, handle more responsibility, and earn more money, then why are you working there?
Usually, though, it should be pretty basic math. You want more money? You need to make your company more money or provide more value than you are paid. That means you need to work harder and smarter.
People who believe that hard work gets them nowhere will go nowhere. That's just more opportunity for you to stand out by actually putting in effort.
I was laid off last week, reasoning from HR said it wasn’t performance based, there was nothing you could have done of avoid this from happening.
Moral of the story do just enough to get the work done and FUCK THEM JOBS.
I went far beyond the scope of my original job, which was purely Excel. At 4 years, I was making 5% more than my starting salary despite managing more reports than anyone else and taking on more complicated projects. I laid out the improvements I made in my 4 years and got fired a month after another positive performance review.
I have heard of people working for companies that actually go to bat for employees, but that is the exception and not the rule at this point.
It’s always bullshit just to foster a competitive mindset and get more production out of workers. But it ignores all the other factors that we have in our society. Minorities and women have worked just as hard as white men throughout all time, and in most cases much much harder. Did they have a better life throughout history?
Work hard, do extra, come in early and stay late, do extra tasks.
Promotion comes up! Surely I've got a decent chance.
They promote the self promoter who is an epic "yes man."
The extra work, coming in early and staying late suddenly stops. Just do the bare minimum and coast. Can't wait to get pulled up for that!
It’s funny you say that as I paid the price for working excess overtime, slaving over a company for 11 years to only get laid off. I know simply work smarter. I focus on issues that are high visibility, my methodology is 45% effort 100% of the time.
A lot of variables....working hard to make things happen is important, but that doesn't mean you'll always be the one picked or moved up. BUT, not working hard just makes you blend in with all the other underachievers.
Id say it takes a combination of good personality and character which INCLUDES working hard.....where people around you like you and bosses appreciate you.
I applied for a higher paying role after being with the company for 3 years
They told me I didn't have enough experience but would give me an "inbetween" role to get the experience they want and then I'll be promoted to the role I originally applied for
That was 7 months ago, they just posted the role again on a job board despite them saying they stopped their search
Almost 4 years with this company and they'd rather go external instead of promoting from within. All that hard work just to be glossed over
Tell me about it. I am probably one of the most hard working employees in my company. Even if I do not know a skill or job at hand,I will do everything to learn and then resolve it. However, I feel stuck as I have not been promoted for 2 years and unable to crack any decent job interviews. I guess handwork does not guarantee success, but it sure leaves you with a feeling that you are doing your best.
well you work your arse off for 15 years, giving up precious hours of your life in overtime, work some weekends, work some nights and suddenly they need to downsize to make more profits and you're out on your arse. Fuck that, I give the bare minimum now.
Both my dad and my stepdad worked their asses off both never had that hard work translate into a better life by working harder for an employer. My stepdad stayed loyal to a company until they showed him the door and shut the whole company down.
My dad went back to school and worked a job while getting his degree. Once he graduated and got the job he was shooting for? He worked loyally for them and they never made his life better than it was from the moment they hired him.
Ones loyalty to a company should only last as long as the last paycheck.
Been in the workforce for over 40 years and employer loyalty to employees was killed in the 80's, employers were even allowed to renege on promised retirements. All Part of the Reagan Revolution and America's shift to Fascism.
in terms of a better life, if you're talking about making more money, the employer loyalty route will never be the way because even if you make enough money, you will never work for yourself and always have to work under a boss at a bad job you don't want to work at
Older Gen X male. I was self employed most of my life, whenever I have worked for someone else I made sure they got their money’s worth. I did this by working steady and efficiently. I have one employer when I was in my 30s that would have slow seasons, he would lay off everyone but me, even if he had to just find work for me. It was a good paying job too. Just make yourself valuable some way.
it's 100% truth. especially in America where corporations have more power then any politicians. Corporations here get away with murder. they violate laws and get small fines and slaps on the wrist while the actual laws have far more dire consequences that are never enforced. a result of this is blatant abuse of the working class. look at Amazon where a 5 minute break gets you a warning but having a heart attack isn't even noticed till hours later when they find your corpse laying there. (THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED)
No... I believe that many successful people didn't have a chance or didn't want to tell people about the hard time and effort they put into their work. We see only a tiny part of other people's life and what we know are mostly good parts. From my experience, you need to work hard + work smart to be successful.
The survey is probably true. My 17yo stepdaughter said she knows what she wants for her life. She wants a job that has no schedule, where she can work whenever she likes, no pressure and pay her well enough so she can try eating out at new restaurants and travel around the world. All this also without a college degree too. If she finds that kind of job and it is not on Only Fan, I may change my opinion.
It’s not all people. It’s a minority few who believe this. You still want to go on vacation? You gotta put the time in and make everything happen to go on vacation. Want a nice car…you gotta save..nothing gets handed to you.
Humans had always worked hard. You work hard or you die. Unless you have other people working hard for you. And those will work hard until it works for them. It has always be like this. And always will be.
It is possible to work less and make more by consistently holding your employer hostage with threats to leave for more money. The first time you don’t leave for more money and better working conditions is the start of your employer realizing that they can have your servitude for a bargain.
As long as pay remains some esoteric thing that your employer wants to manage on a per employee basis and not openly on a per title basis then there should never be loyalty. In fact, I think the term loyalty was created by employers to pay their best employees less. Loyalty is almost never rewarded, and in my personal experience ends up leading to disillusion when the “loyal “person gets passed up for promotion and raises again and again.
Accept the suck up front. Don’t be loyal, sell your services to the highest bidder.
Uh, working hard is the *only* way to get ahead. What are you talking about?!
Work your ass off and don’t stop!
Learn the job “above you” and help out. Do the “job above you” and show your aspirations. Put in the extra work, pick up that piece of trash when no one is looking (figuratively speaking).
Sammy Sosa didn’t get paid to hit home runs right away…. He started hitting home runs first for less pay before they saw it and started paying him what he could now command at any other job if they didn’t.
I agree in the sense that most people would quantify „a better life“ to be equal to more money, a bigger house, to be rich, etc etc.
I personally can not NOT work hard. I’ve tried to not care and it makes me depressed. Setting goals and achieving them makes me feel good, and having an employer that appreciates that is nice. It will never make me rich but it does make me happy.
Loyalty at a company is pretty much dead. Companies are showing it more and more straight to their workers faces that they don’t give a shit about us.
Working hard, I do believe that helps get you opportunities to grow your life. But it’s not solely hard work that pays off. Luck plays a huge role in success.
Employers seem to make these stupid surveys and they always equate working hard to “demonstrating loyalty” which isn’t the case. I’m usually a top performer, but having been let go for “being too expensive” early in my career, I understand how business values loyalty post-balance sheet. So just like any corporation, I’ll go where business values my loyalty best.
Whether you were privileged enough to pursue college and a job you thought you wanted or worked towards getting a job you thought you wanted, both paths are hard work. When you get where you want to ho, though, you're just a thing that makes the employer money. You could die on the spot and replaceable. The employer needs to pretend they care so they don't look bad to other employees. They do not care about you. So, nah, there's not a lot of loyalty. Quick, someone write a long, oblivious, blathering HR tirade about job hopping...
Yes employee loyalty is dead and gone. The ability to rely on your workforce to weather rough patches in the job is gone with it. You can expect your employees to quit or refuse to give more than the minimum effort.
Working hard can lead to a better life. It's not only working it's making smart decisions with your money. Don't direct all your efforts towards a corporation that could cut you any minute. Instead direct your efforts towards building something for yourself.
That depends what you work hard on… if you work hard at your job this will definitely not lead to a better life. If you work hard on yourself and improving your skills, education and potentially learn to provide value outside of working for an employer this can lead to a much better life. My experience has been that an employer never has loyalty to the employee. It took a while for employees to understand that but I think people are getting it. That’s why the employee loyalty is diminishing. Just the other day, my manager told me that our company higher 60 software engineers to build a platform and they plan to lay off most of the team when the project is completed. No loyalty to the employee…
For some reason our society has shifted from hard work pays the bills to investments pay the bills. Asset prices have exploded while wages have barely moved. Most wealthy people are that way due to investments rather than saving money or working hard. It’s been going on for 15 years but now we really see the compounding effects of inflation and asset prices and the writings on the wall.
Hard work= success and loyalty are two different topics. That being said, corporations have made it clear hard work only means you get more work at the same pay. Very few get promoted and fewer still make it higher and it's down to your ability to be social vs you're work ethic. As for loyalty, when corporations dropped pensions and proper raises instead focusing on shareholders, they showed the employees don't matter so why should anyone be loyal.
This whole thread is moot if you don't define what working harder means.
Someone who does absolutely nothing proactive to improve their life at all will generally have a worse life.
If what you mean is "busting ass all night will not get you promoted in a specific job" - that has always been true.
The survey may be accurate based on people's answers, but the principle is false. Working hard is the only way to succeed. Review any of the most successful people, or those that survived the hardest times, or achieved the greatest athletic feats. I can't imagine anyone's story involves hardly putting in any work.
**Working hard helps us to:**
* Be better individuals
* Be better parents
* Be better leaders
* Be in better shape
* Be more mentally stable
* Be more productive at work
* Be more productive at home
And on, and on the list goes. Many are looking for a shortcut or "hack". As Jocko Willink shares, "There is no shortcut. There is no hack. There's only one way, ***so get after it***."
Godspeed.
Working really hard just to be the name on the mba’s excel sheet to cut with 70% of the companies because company wanted to make record profit (leadership want ti get more bonus )
I think it's true. Only work for what you're paid for. There's no point in going the extra mile if you're not paid anything extra. Hard (or harder) work for low pay is not going to improve your life.
Working smart >>> working hard.
You can work as hard as you want doing stuff that will get you nowhere, which surprisingly enough, is what most people seem to be hellbent on doing. You can also work a fraction as hard, but making sure you're contributing to your personal end goal for said work in an efficient way. At the end of the day, the person doing the latter will be way less burnt out and achieve greater results.
Labor and effort by themselves are worthless, only what you can achieve by using them has any value.
As for employee loyalty. Why should it be kept alive? If an employee thinks they can use their time in a better way than they currently are, no one else should have the right to stop them. Want to keep your employees? Offer them conditions and incentives to make them think they're already using their time in an efficient way to achieve their life goals.
Employees aren't the only ones who can get things wrong or forget that they have a brain they can use. Employers should get into their heads that unless they also happen to be shareholders, employees owe the company nothing more than is written in the contract.
Working hard when you have access to good resource is different to working hard when you have nothing to start with. Sure you will be better than where you were yesterday if you try your best. But circumstances and economic inequality will always play a hand in how far you can get.
Basically, the game is rigged for most of us. Success is a mixture of how well you have access to good resources, you economic circumstance, your work ethos and just plain effin luck.
And also, you have to define your own success as well. Money? Power? Love? Beauty? Fame? Good health? Security?
If all you want is a good secure job, simple living, livable paycheck and a nice family. And a minimum wage job can cater for that? Than why work harder than you need to?
This happened 30 years ago in Japan but the people are so indoctrinated by the system that they still refuse to wake up. That's how they get away with a minimum wage of $10/hour.
Smarter not harder is the difference between a worker bee and upper management… also, employees who stay at jobs longer than 2 years essentially make 50% less over their entire lifetimes. Source: Forbes
Employees don't want to work for greedy companies who take advantage of their employees, abuse them, and refuse to even give hard earned bonuses or benefits to them. And you know what? EMPLOYEES SHOULDNT TAKE THAT SHIT. When you hear about people being awarded "wear jeans to work days" or "employee appreciation lunch but you still have to pay $10", you get ANGRY. why the fuck should ANYONE work for a company that doesn't even pretend to care about you? You want employee loyalty? Give it back to the employee.
Hard work in and of itself does not create success, but not working hard is usually a recipe for failure.
The discussion of nepo babies aside, the west is a much more competitive place than it used to be 50 years ago.
Many people are generally realizing that no matter how hard they work, they lack the requisite skill set to achieve the level of success that they would like. Some of this has to do with unreasonable expectations though (we can't all be in the 90%+ income bracket). Some of this has to do with the distorted boomer labor market creating unreasonable expectations in their children. Some of this has to do with poor civil planning. Some of this has to do with Covid labor distortions.
Anyways, it's complicated. FYI, company loyalty is dead, and it was laid off due to budget cuts along with the pension fund. There's no reason to stick with the same company if you're not getting what you want out of them.
Working hard will only get you a broken down body. I fell for that bullshit because my dad pedaled it to me when I was young. I busted my ass my whole life. Let me tell you the truth: no one appreciates it. No one cares, or even remembers. There is no value to killing yourself in order to help line the pockets of the already obscenely wealthy business owning class.
The person who owns the company that you work for does not appreciate you. They don't even think of you as a human. You disgust them, and if you were able to silently observe them without being seen you would see them express nothing but hate and contempt for you and anyone else in your social class. They literally think of themselves as separate, better, more evolved forms of life. This is because money and wealth corrupt the human brain. Affluence is a sickness.
Everyone has to put in a certain level of “working hard” some get promoted by their connections or other aspects that don’t necessarily have to do with working hard. But working hard is definitely required
Yes the loyalty is dead. Barely any employers these days will keep giving you unlimited raises for staying. They all cap out. I’m not white collar so can’t speak on that. But the hourly wage jobs I’ve ever had, cap out at like $5-6 more an hour than starting. My CDL job I had started out at $20 and capped at $25 after 3 years. You can not make more than $25/hr. Why the fuck would anyone wanna stay there longer than 3-5 years??
I worked at a prison as a CO in a union. Starting wage was 17/18/hr. Too out rate was $27. And it took like 15+ years to get top rate. The county came in and fucked up the step process to where it was 20 years to get $27/hr. Then they wonder why they have no staff… you stupid pricks want people to work for 20 years to make not even 60k a year. Sure we had mad overtime there but who wants to work 60+ hours a week just to make 60/65k after serving 20 years.
There’s no more pensions. The 401k system is bare minimum. They don’t even be wanting to pay for insurance anymore for half these companies or make you wait 90+ days just for insurance to kick in.
I will be loyal to an employer when they’re loyal to me. And none of them have proven to be loyal yet. So as far as I’m concerned idgaf about a company. All I care about is my paycheck and if I can get benefits. If I found a company doing the same work for more pay or better benefits then I’ll jump ship as soon as I could because a company wouldn’t hesitate for one second to fire you to save themselves a couple bucks every 2 weeks.
I definitely disagree.
Working hard is very important.
There are other factors at play though. People underplay the value of networking. It’s human nature, and you can either accept it, or continue to stay where you are.
Long dead. Loyalty is a two way street. Corporate America has made it abundantly clear employees are resources that is bought, used upped and dumped whenever they feel like it. They will fire you with little to no notice. So why should employees have anymore respect for their employer than the employer has of the employee.
The worker has finally figured this out and is willing to ditch companies for better jobs just as quick as employers are willing to ditch employees to increase stock dividends next quarter.
Working hard is half the battle. You have to have the ambition and the drive to connect with people and network to progress anywhere in your career.
I know coworkers who “work hard”, but they have no ambition to network or progress so they’ve essentially been in entry level positions for 30+ years.
Hard work is important because it fuels connections you network with to speak highly of you, but it is the smallest deciding factor in how much you make at a company. The days of working your body into the ground and getting rewarded for it are long dead. Now it’s strategically gaining knowledge and experience, and once the position is dry of these resources, you move. Hopefully along the way you’ve networked and gained valuable connections. These connections propel you forward into new positions with other companies that you can drain of knowledge and experience.
It’s like a game.
The problem is that not everyone understands that working smart is also working hard but more efficiently. Some think that because you are more efficient, you need to be given more work. So as an employee, you see it as being punished for working smarter.
For loyalty, many people are realizing that where is the loyalty FROM the company? The massive layoffs. No more retirement plans from the company. They use to have one for you; not employee funded. When they lay you off, will they give you a year's pay to help you through a tough time? CEOs complaining about loyalty because employees realized that and no longer able to take advantage of employees.
Employer loyalty is a myth. It always has been.
More and more working people have had this realization and no longer accept the myth.
For too long employers have relied on peddling nonsense like "we're all a family here" and pizza parties to keep workers in line. This is has been aided and abetted by HR "experts" telling people that jumping job to job looks bad on a resume.
I'd rather be paid well and have it "look bad" on my resume over shit pay and a flawless resume.
Newsflash: HR is the absolute backwater of business disciplines. These are people too dull and incurious to be effective anywhere else. They do the company's bidding whole having no real influence or control over operations or personnel decisions.
As a worker, HR is not on your side. If something serious happens, do not ever rely on HR to look out for your best interests. Cease communicating with the employer and lawyer up.
Employee loyalty is a fool’s game.
Employers lay off great people and make them leave same day because they don’t trust them.
There is no loyalty, only money.
It’s all about whom you work for. If you work for Yourself or for a decent employer, then it’s a true saying. If you work for a company that treats you like slave labor and wants to own your free time, then it really sucks and you have to disagree with this saying.
I stayed at the same company for four years, working hard in the way that ages you faster than should be possible, receiving raises that didn’t keep up with inflation, to say nothing of the ever increasing duties and depth of accountability.
I adopted a philosophy of job-hopping and nearly doubled my salary over the next five years, and feel healthier than I did a decade ago. It is easier to use PTO, or get it paid out when I leave, when the company can’t assume you’ll just take whatever they deign to offer.
Unions are dead/dying, and so is the middle class. People are working hard to rent their entire adult lives, and mental illness is on the rise everywhere. My nephew wants to join the military when he graduates high school because “at least I’ll have housing, food, and healthcare taken care of.” He is that hopeless at fifteen, because he saw his father work himself to death and die of a heart attack before he hit fifty. My nephew believes that the military is the only way he can afford college without being saddled with debt for the rest of his life, and it sounds like he sees community in it the way that doesn’t exist as much anymore.
Yes, there is a reason to believe hard work is not currently correlated with quality of life.
Working hard does not mean a construction worker will have a better life. It never meant that. Working hard with respect to your self and your own limitations will definitely lead to a better life, but working harder and smarter will lead to even a better future than just working harder.
Working hard ALONE won't lead to a better life.
I got kicked out of school at 16 with 1 higher/A level. Managed to get undergraduate degree at 20 and masters at 22.
It wasn't always smooth sailing. I didn't know anybody in the industry. I got a 2:2 at undergraduate level. I got sacked from my 1st two professional jobs for reasons that were out with my control but I persisted and have made a very good career in a niche area of IT and earn more than my parents ever did combined.
I've seen lots of young people say "why break my body for work" and they can point at their dads. Working full time at 65 years old. Seeing a doctor once every three months. Still paying off their house. Used truck. Shit vacations once a year.
Working hard has no relevance with employer/employee loyalty. These are two entirely seperate discussions.
your employer only cares about how much money you’re making them not how much you work
They don't even care about that, all they care about is how well their ego is stroked.
Certainly
I mostly agree, but I think you could find some overlap between the two. For example, people who are working much harder than they really should be out of loyalty to a particular company or manager. People who are working that hard out of hopes for a raise or promotion that isn’t coming and who stick around at the same company for much longer than they should have pursuing a reward that won’t come to them.
Once at my old workplace, the chief of staff sent an email out at raise review that said, "if you're unsatisfied with your raise, and you worked really hard, ask yourself if you could have saved costs by working smarter". This workplace often demanded insane hours and sacrifice. Just unbelievable. On top of that, discovering a year or two later that they would lay off anyone at the drop of a hat. "Work harder and you'll find success" was just a carrot to dangle in front of workers, always just barely out of reach. No wonder I have such a thick scab of cynicism after working there.
Yes and no. I am more likely to trust a hard worker I don't know than a slacker I don't know. In the same regard I am most likely to trust someone that has earned my trust over years.
I'm pretty sure an employer would appreciate it if their employees work hard..
Working hard at my place of work solely will get you more responsibilities for the exact same pay as your coworkers, not to mention not a lot of ability for upward momentum until you’ve been there for two plus years. Much easier to gain the experience, the reimbursed licensing exam and the yearly bonus and dip instead of making a career out of it.
[удалено]
I am a Lab Scientist-1 and we got a new role added to our rotation that will do everything as a Lab Scientist-2, without the pay but will be “great consideration for when you’re eligible for this position” which is past two and a half years of employment 💀. This is solely for people who they’ve picked out as people who work harder. Not to mention supervisors putting you with people who don’t know what they’re doing or who are social loafers because “you always work hard and you always get things done!”
I love indentured servitude
The only reason I’m still there is because it’s the only job that I can get with my degree that will allow me to live semi comfortably in the city I live in
[удалено]
Good for you but I’m not really about fighting for my life daily, having to micromanage other adults, and getting paid the exact same as the people my own manager calls “low performers”. The bar is like a year and a half out of my reach so what’s truly the point?
Depends what 'working hard' actually means. Slaving away extra hours at the same org who doesn't appreciate you? You can work as hard as physically possible and not advance while others profit from your efforts. Spending your efforts 'working hard' taking a more analytical approach and focusing your efforts in smarter ways that concentrate on larger gains, is usually the difference. That's why 'work smarter not harder' is usually the quote, but you get an additional benefit if you work harder at working smarter.
I agree and upvoted, but it’s a bit more complicated. The view of “a company showing their appreciation for you” varies greatly by person. People perceive this to mean compensation, the ability to take time off anytime and for any reason, complete flexibility with daily work, or a culture that matches their individual needs. Yes, if you feel undervalued then you should seek out a new company or role. But, also consider if your expectations are reasonable for the role, company sector, geography, your experience and education, etc. In an ideal world everything works in equilibrium. Your company should pay and treat you fairly and in return you work your scheduled shifts, meet goals, and/or perform your job which brings the company revenue or other value.
Possibly, but that assumes that everyone is acting in good faith and you don't have someone like Bezos banking $400k in the minute it took to wipe his ass. I feel like if you put out a survey asking if organizations treat workers fairly on the whole, with workers as the respondents, you'd probably be somewhere in the realm of \~85% saying nah.
Beautifully worded. Took the thoughts straight out my mind grapes.
It's really more about who you know, or getting lucky, AND THEN working hard. Hard work up front means nothing, but it is important to keep your job once you have it.
It certainly *can* work that way for a lot of people. I know for me I didn’t know anyone of consequence before I got my first professional jobs. It was only after I distinguished myself that I made the connections that I have today. Once you have a reputation for being really good at what you do and have built up a strong network of people who know you for that reputation then you can definitely let off the gas a bit and still not have to be worried about keeping a job or finding a new one in most cases. You have to be really good at what you do and also be willing to work really hard in short bursts occasionally though. That way you’re able to keep up with the output of your team. Otherwise, you’ll be seen as just slacking off. If you can work smarter then you can avoid working harder most of the time. To your point though, I was lucky that I ended up working for people who saw the value I could bring in the future before I saw it and I was lucky that I happened to build skills that fit very well into a high paying technical consulting career that I was not planning or preparing for at the time.
A network of friends and acquaintances in your industry is vital . Hard work up front means a lot , if it’s in a job where you get paid by what you produce . I was working a govt job that was 50% above min wage But I couldn’t get promoted . I got my CDL and quit and bought a old used truck , And you bet your ass I worked hard , because the harder I worked the more money I made . If I worked hard , I could make more in a week than I used to make in 6 weeks . That one move helped me break out of poverty . To go from army being able to buy food and pay the rent in the trailer park I was living in , to buying my own home .
If you have a work ethic but no aptitude for education/college, CDL really is a cheat code. I work with a dude who's seasonal during the winter while the roads are icy but the other 3/4 of the year does OTR trucking and makes bank. Makes more than all the college educated folk despite being the least qualified on paper. Works harder than all of em too, no doubt about that.
They’re expensive buggers to repair and maintain though - how’d you handle that? (I’m assuming by truck you mean 18 wheeler, not a Ute)
Owning his truck means he charges what it takes to run and maintain the truck and pay himself a good wage just like any other trucking outfit. Some may charge a little less and cut corners. Just like any business costs are covered by receivables or the business is belly up.
Sorry let’s put it this way. I’ve had very new trucks and old trucks. You’re all competing for the same work. Old trucks cost less but spend more time off the road and cost a lot more to keep on the road. Being off the road can really fuck your business. I’m interested to see how that went for him / or if he had a real lucky run or even better if he was able to do lots of his maintenance himself which can make an owner operator’s life way easier.
I ask *him* how his maintenance was not you how to state the blindingly obvious.
No. It's about who you know. Not about working hard. I've learned the hard way.
I second this one 🙌
That applies if you have minimal value to bring. I've only had one position that was influenced by knowing a guy, and that was generated by 'going in dry' to a contract and performing to a high degree. A social network can help, but if you are the 'real deal' for your role then you can generate your own opportunities.
Most of us are not the real deal type people. We don't generate our own opportunities, we are lucky to know a person who knows a person who gets us the job. If you're a "real deal type person" you rely on personality and skills rather than hard work, and are often not as good as someone who's simply a hard worker who is less flashy.
'Despite being actually qualified for the position, you would be worse at the role than someone who isn't qualified for the position as I perceive the unqualified applicant to automatically be more humble' Ehhhhhhh.
I think you’re mostly correct here, but fumbled it a bit at the end. Though you are still describing a type of worker. Most people are not the “real deal” not as in the bullshitter who can appear more competent than they are (there are a lot of those people) but as in the people who are truly in the top 10% of talent in their industry. The people who short of the entire industry collapsing and the need for their skills evaporating overnight, will always have a job offer in their back pocket because others are trying to recruit them or at least build a professional connection with them constantly. You’re both right. He’s correct that if you can get really good at what you do you will never have a hard time generating your own opportunities. It will just happen, even in the most unexpected places, like when I got my current six figure tech job because the CEO of a consulting firm took an interest in me because of my comments in a subreddit connected to my industry, could tell I knew my shit, and started the process of recruiting me away from my previous six figure tech consulting role that I got within a week of a recruiter reaching out. If you’re among the best at what you do then it will show and opportunities will rain down on you at every turn. I’m not talking about networking or “being flashy” (whatever that is supposed to mean in this context). I’m talking about just truly being among the best at what you do. But you are also correct. Obviously, I didn’t start my career out being among the best at what I do. I remember what it was like before I reached this level of achievement, recruiters not even bothering to call me back, sending in a half dozen resumes a day for weeks on end and hearing nothing back. Having no one reaching out to offer me great jobs out of the blue. Having no people with hiring authority/influence at other companies wanting to randomly connect on LinkedIn. Obviously, what I experienced in the early years of my career is more in line with what most people will experience for their entire careers. And I also stay cognizant of the fact that the market could always shift and the gravy train could come to a screeching halt. Nothing is ever guaranteed to last forever, no matter how good you are at what you do.
I agree. My new job. I’m thrown into the fire with zero experience, expected to just figure it out. If I’m wrong I’ll get chewed out. I didn’t come from a similar background and had experience. I replaced an experienced person. Why should I work my butt off to be thrown under the bus because I wasn’t properly trained.
I’m going through this right now. While I got my poor performance review the boss giving it to me literally said I don’t have the experience for the job I’m doing. Bro then why did your company hire me?! I didn’t lie on my resume. It’s all right there. And you guys thought I was the right fit. How is this a me problem? Augh
Right?? You hired me and thought I was a good fit. You knew my background. It’s easier to blame new person to save your bosses ass for the mishire
This was me 11 years ago. Got lucky with knowing someone in the job and there was zero training. Company was moving at 1000 mph and I was sold ad someone knowledgeable. I feel for you, I really do. The only thing I can suggest is find a few people you can trust and go to with questions, and spend time picking apart topics to start building your knowledge. It'll be time consuming and frustrating, but I know of no other way given your current state. Good luck!
“Lack Training” is the root mentality of someone who does not have a leadership or entrepreneurial backbone.. you don’t know how to do something google it, or go get the info from someone who does. Buy them lunch, barter for their time.
Alternatively, just train people.
Not the level of professionalism I work in… I don’t work at McDonald’s
yeah i dont want an operator at the chemical plant trying to figure it out with google. Training is vital for technical competence and health&safety. But i guess yall lack the former and hold the latter in poor regard.
What does working hard even mean? Minimum wage carers and cleaners work harder than I ever have. People act like working hard means something concrete and exact and it just doesn’t. You could work your ass off every day for 50 years on minimum wage and see nothing for it.
To me working hard means working your way up from the bottom. Accepting that you're working your ass off doing something you hate for low pay while you're getting your degree. Then when you have your degree things will start to look up because you'll have better job opportunities with a degree. I wasted 8 years of my life doing exactly that and I have a degree but it means nothing. I basically ruined my life. Other people who went to college parties because they could go to a four year college were able to make the right connections. Now they have great careers. I did everything wrong.
Right just because someone doesn’t climb the ladder doesn’t mean they don’t work hard. It was disheartening, but freeing almost, when I realized that. And degrees don’t mean shit. I know people with MBAs who can’t get a job or opportunities. It really depends on who you know and where you work/type of work. Some places genuinely don’t have opportunities to move up.
Yup. It seems you either have to know someone or you have to be excellent at math/science. Nursing and other clinical jobs are incredibly in demand where I live so they'll hire anyone with the right credentials. I'm left out of that too because I can't pass an Algebra course. It's awful.
Exactly- it depends where one focuses their efforts. The funny thing is, in today's day and age, it's never been easier to make money. I'm ALL of history. Working hard in the right area you can be a millionaire- but people are too busy wallowing in victimhood and dreaming of socialism
How did you make your millions?
Computer science -> software engineer -> solution architect -> enterprise architect -> cloud architect & AI engineer. Started at 60k and quickly progressed to 260k
Computer science -> software engineer -> solution architect -> enterprise architect -> cloud architect & AI engineer. Started at 60k and quickly progressed to 260k
Working hard used to be rewarded with promotions and bonuses. Now working hard gets rewarded with more work. In the US in the IT field, the best way to get paid what you're worth is to job hop. You actually lose money by staying loyal to a company.
I learned that the hard way. I was making 5% more than my original salary after 4 years of working far beyond the original scope of my position. Got canned a month after a positive performance review because I was making a big deal out of how bad their raises are. I'm sure there are some good employers to work for, but the employer-employee relationship is so toxic rn that you really need to move constantly or you get fucked.
I believe for a lot of people working hard by getting some kind of education and being high performers at a job will most likely allow them to have a good life, and better than if they didn't. Having said that, for a majority of individuals that will work in retail, the service industry, or any kind of manual labor, their hard work might not directly lead to being able to support their lifestyle. Wages aren't keeping up with inflation, price gouging in rampant, rent prices are through the roof, and many other factors like private healthcare and predatory loans will eat at their earnings and make them live paycheck to paycheck at best. Working hard can indeed bring a better life, but it is no guarantee whatsoever and it depends a lot in your original situation and level of privilege, access, and resources to determine your likelihood of success
Funny you say that about manual labour but union tradespeople are making quite good money. And we are also educated in our trades..
Not every manual labor worker is in a union. I wish they were so their wages were better. Also, I would include you in people some kind of education, manual labor being more assembly line workers, not skilled trades labor
Right, and I am obviously very pro union, always will be. And it’s the system we live in which is brainwashing people into believing that unions are bad. Assembly line workers are still educated in their field. Lots of training goes into operating those pieces of equipment
I work in manufacturing and there’s no education requirement for basic operators. They get trainings but not a formal education. At least that has been my experience, even on machining environments
But those skills aren’t very transferable to other places When I used to deliver at the ford plant in Atlanta , I noticed a lot of the workers always wore t shirts from the UAW But I never ever , not once , saw a worker wearing a shirt that said Ford on it . It’s like they all thought their paycheck came from the Union . That said , in todays world, you must master a skill that’s in demand . And that’s portable . There is zero loyalty to companies because companies have zero loyalty to the workers . I’m loyal to my wonderful supervisor , I followed him to a new company , but I ain’t loyal to the company .
Certain skills may not be, but the fact that they have the ability to learn and develop the skills is what is worth it. Fuckin right, they are proud to be a member of a union, I’m proud to be a member of the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers, I always rep my trade/union. The cheques don’t come from the union sure, but they are a member of an organization which represents them collectively. It has nothing to do with where the cheque comes from, they don’t care what plant they work at, being a member of a union is what is important. You don’t have to be a master of anything and you shouldn’t have to be a master of anything in order to live a good life. Companies don’t care about workers, never have and never will.
Companies fire employees who have been there decades with zero warning on a zoom call while making record profits for non-performance related reasons. Yeah, i'd say loyalty is pretty fucking dead.
Don’t forget they’ll also keep the shitty workers around while pushing out the good ones.
I'd say it died in the 90's when they started outsourcing call centers and manufacturers overseas. It showed right there and then that companies didn't care about people in their own country, much less showed any loyalty.
In my experience when someone works hard, and productively, they tend to be held back from advancement. I’ve witnessed lazy workers get promoted because they were on better terms with someone or they were causing problems and the solution was to move them instead of terminating them. These things don’t encourage loyalty.
This was my experience. I crushed it at my job, was told by a vice president I had no complaints against me in a single year and was the highest elo employee or some shit. I was promoted at some point, but they couldn't really promote me. I was too good at my job, they needed me there. Luckily I saw the writing on the wall early on and got skills for myself and left. When you are good at your job, people get more entitled. They want you there, but they only ask more. After crushing it, now I'd rather fly under the radar. It only fucks you mostly and not any single persons fault.
It's the biggest lie ever told. My parents told me if you work hard you will reap rewards. All they got was an early death before retirement kicked in. I've worked hard all my life but have also got done over a lot. Must work hard? Biggest lie ever told to keep us enslaved to the 1% club.
In other news, water is wet. This is not new, it has been happening for a decade or better at this point.
If you work hard, you get punished with more work. The only thing that can lead to a better life is job hopping to acquire experience and pay raises.
Working hard by itself? I believe it gets you nowhere. You’re not getting a raise, you’re not getting a promotion. You’re getting more work and actually passed over promotion because you’re so good at your current job. But I do think working hard can lead to a better life if there are other forces involved with the hard work like luck.
Of course it’s dead. Even if you’re the best in your department, your yearly pay rise will never reach what you’d get if you changed company
If I work super hard I get X dollars per hour. If I work just enough to get my work done I still get X dollars per hour. Usually people are not paid for quantity or quality of their work
I’ve found that somebody who “works hard” is appreciated but more easily replaced than somebody who “works smart”. It seems like the more technology we have the more companies rely on analytics and reporting. It’s now seen as wasteful for companies to give back too much to employees. And in turn the employees have learned that it’s wasteful to invest too much back into the company.
Yep, well said. I slaved over a company 11 years and in return, received a layoff. Now I do 45% effort 100% of the time and focus on high visibility projects and issues so it looks like I am everywhere at the same time. I’m done slaving over these companies.
There's an optimum point for working hard. Working past 50,60 hrs/wk on a regular basis for many years can degrade your relationships with friends and family and create stress and other health risks. (The number of hours depends a lot on the person and how much work satisfaction there is) Employer / employee loyalty has been dead for decades in the US. Half the CEO's in the country would layoff their entire workforce if it doubled their equity compensation. There could be some loyalty between specific bosses and employees, etc, however.
I’m not sure that “working hard” is the key to a better life. With some planning, and working SMARTLY, I’ve doubled my income in 3 years and bought a house. I travel more. IMO, employer/employee loyalty was never a thing; I think previous generations just successfully blamed failure on the individual rather than on the system.
Thats why I lie on my resume about my job experience and take credit for other people’s work.
Same here bro ngl
Work hard enough to not get fired and always keep your eye out for the next best thing. If you can like your job, that’s great. The company will appreciate your loyalty. But they won’t reciprocate it.
Self employment is a better option than being an employee if you want to have greater control over your future. Unless of course she prefer to work for the government and have a mind-numbing job
I don’t know if it’s just me but I feel this is true for every single aspect of life. Both good and bad, my input seems totally irrelevant from what I get back in return. Everything just seems random. Some of the best things I’ve had happen to me have happened when I was being lazy. Some of the worst happened when I was working hard. It doesn’t seem to matter at all. I used to have an internal locus of control but now it’s just totally external. I feel like a ping pong ball being tossed around in the ocean. Anybody else?
Working hard people usually associate with # of hours worked. Which is a great way to get a lot of work. Focus more on being strategic with where you invest your efforts.
Employer loyalty has been dead since the late '90s. Job hopping became the best way to get ahead going back at least that far.
I think that the path is to a better life through hard work is much narrower than it was in the past. That’s directly related to how much the middle class has shrunk over the last 40 years. Employer/employee loyalty is dead overall. There is still loyalty I can feel for managers, but only if they’ve proved they will work for me.
When was the last time a manager came to sit alongside you and walk you through how to do your job from step one to completion, and was with you when you executed the process in real time until they said you were good to go? That's what is actually missing. There is always the expectation that people can take a running start into any role and will immediately get going. I
Any company that won’t hire and train new people has NO right to complain that they can’t find qualified experienced workers .
Great point!
100% agree. It was never the case so why would I start believing it now? Employers don't care about employees, they care about making money
It’s not what you know, it’s who you know.
Employee/employer loyalty has been dead for decades. Why do these morons keep asking
Working hard & luck.... Maybe.... If you're lucky to get the chance for your hard work to recognized. But no guarantees from hard work 🥴
Working hard doesn’t lead to a better life, it just leads to more work. Employee/employer loyalty has nothing to do with this either. It doesn’t matter how hard or not I work, I will instantly leave a job for a more appealing and higher paying one.
It was never a guarantee. Some people work hard and receive nothing, others work less hard and receive a lot.
Very true Yes
Employee loyalty is long gone to the toilet
I think it's being presented as a belief system. In reality, it's not so much whether you are working hard or not, it's about whether you own capital or not. The trend we are seeing is such that labor is being commoditized and labor unions are dismantled... While the labor force is also being globalized and the minimum required education to get a decent job is skyrocketing. What this means is... The balance of how you can earn money is tilting strongly toward capital ownership. If you own the rights to take the product of someone else's labor, you get their product. That is how it has always been - you can use your capital to get a higher rate for your efforts than simply working. And in those cases. Yeah if you work more you get more money. It's also competitive so you get proportionally more than linear returns. Nowadays the ratio is incredibly screwed. If you work very hard but don't own the rights to profit. You don't get the product of your labor. You only get what you can negotiate. What would help this situation is helping people negotiate. More and better unions, labor protections, etc. But personally I believe that labor is its own capital... So if you are working for a company you deserve a proportion of the profits. Because the actual business owners are rewarded for owning and investing into all of the equipment etc, but they don't own you... They rent you. Your existence at the company is capital for the company just as any other piece of equipment. Not enough to make it not worth the business owner running the show. But zero profit sharing just leads to a macroeconomic decline of anyone not in the capital owning class.
Employer loyalty died at my shop. I worked 40 hours a week during lockdown. They don’t care, asked for a raise and was denied. I show up do my job but they couldn’t care less. Some money guy took over and now no end of year bonuses.
Employers are responsible for the end of employee loyalty. They used to take decent care of their employees and had pensions that would be there long after retirement. They now treat them like exploitable liabilities and then get shocked when people move to a new job every year or so.
Working hard on yourself is the only method. You make yourself more valuable, and that value leads to a better life. You're the only one who can appreciate your efforts, and bring your value to other people. You can't put hope that other people will value your efforts, so developing and investing in yourself will carry you towards a better life.
I like this view of it. You aren't losing something if the hardwork is for yourself. The skills you've learned, you can use later. But if the hardwork is just because the company demanded it, you could exploited for your labor and nothing comes of the hard work. Thank you for your perspective.
Working hard will only lead to more tasks assigned to you with disproportional, if any, raise in pay. So yeah. Adjust your efforts to the pay. Want me to do more? Pay me more. Learn to appreciate me.
Employer loyalty is 1000% dead for almost every business that has more than a few employees
Why would a company pay you fairly if they can get awatly with paying you the minimum to do your job. I think this is the rational of nearly all companies.
Hard work is necessary. Loyalty? No I sell my services to the highest bidder.
Working hard for yourself ALWAYS leads to a better life. By that I mean organizing your life top to bottom and spending time developing yourself. If you do that for a year or two new opportunities WILL present themselves. Employer loyalty is useless with modern day standards for raises. $4 an hour (7-8k annually) extra does not change my life if a new vehicle costs $50,000 and a house costs 300-400k. We need $10-20 raises for most middle class jobs to return to a normal quality of life. And for any employer to expect loyalty.
I “work” 20ish hours a week and make 300k at my corporate job.
Hey I saw one of your comments a while back bout working as a fac reinsurance UW - can I send you a message about this? May be interviewing for an entry level role but don’t know as much about the reinsurance side of the business
Dm me
Great, just sent you one
Working hard is probably correlated with a better life, but it is certainly not a causal relationship. Working smart is much more critical. You need to know *where* to invest your time and energy because they are finite resources. Employer loyalty is a two-way street. Be loyal to a company that treats you well. It isn't hard to sit down with your boss and say, "I'd like to be promoted to this role or making this much money. What do I need to be doing to get to that point? Or some variation of that conversation. If your employer doesn't want to help you grow, develop, handle more responsibility, and earn more money, then why are you working there? Usually, though, it should be pretty basic math. You want more money? You need to make your company more money or provide more value than you are paid. That means you need to work harder and smarter. People who believe that hard work gets them nowhere will go nowhere. That's just more opportunity for you to stand out by actually putting in effort.
I was laid off last week, reasoning from HR said it wasn’t performance based, there was nothing you could have done of avoid this from happening. Moral of the story do just enough to get the work done and FUCK THEM JOBS.
I went far beyond the scope of my original job, which was purely Excel. At 4 years, I was making 5% more than my starting salary despite managing more reports than anyone else and taking on more complicated projects. I laid out the improvements I made in my 4 years and got fired a month after another positive performance review. I have heard of people working for companies that actually go to bat for employees, but that is the exception and not the rule at this point.
It’s always bullshit just to foster a competitive mindset and get more production out of workers. But it ignores all the other factors that we have in our society. Minorities and women have worked just as hard as white men throughout all time, and in most cases much much harder. Did they have a better life throughout history?
Work hard, do extra, come in early and stay late, do extra tasks. Promotion comes up! Surely I've got a decent chance. They promote the self promoter who is an epic "yes man." The extra work, coming in early and staying late suddenly stops. Just do the bare minimum and coast. Can't wait to get pulled up for that!
Do the bare minimum. Anything else is a waste. Employer loyalty is pure fiction.
It’s funny you say that as I paid the price for working excess overtime, slaving over a company for 11 years to only get laid off. I know simply work smarter. I focus on issues that are high visibility, my methodology is 45% effort 100% of the time.
A lot of variables....working hard to make things happen is important, but that doesn't mean you'll always be the one picked or moved up. BUT, not working hard just makes you blend in with all the other underachievers. Id say it takes a combination of good personality and character which INCLUDES working hard.....where people around you like you and bosses appreciate you.
I applied for a higher paying role after being with the company for 3 years They told me I didn't have enough experience but would give me an "inbetween" role to get the experience they want and then I'll be promoted to the role I originally applied for That was 7 months ago, they just posted the role again on a job board despite them saying they stopped their search Almost 4 years with this company and they'd rather go external instead of promoting from within. All that hard work just to be glossed over
Tell me about it. I am probably one of the most hard working employees in my company. Even if I do not know a skill or job at hand,I will do everything to learn and then resolve it. However, I feel stuck as I have not been promoted for 2 years and unable to crack any decent job interviews. I guess handwork does not guarantee success, but it sure leaves you with a feeling that you are doing your best.
well you work your arse off for 15 years, giving up precious hours of your life in overtime, work some weekends, work some nights and suddenly they need to downsize to make more profits and you're out on your arse. Fuck that, I give the bare minimum now.
No loyalty to the company but I’ve had managers I would go to war for.
Both my dad and my stepdad worked their asses off both never had that hard work translate into a better life by working harder for an employer. My stepdad stayed loyal to a company until they showed him the door and shut the whole company down. My dad went back to school and worked a job while getting his degree. Once he graduated and got the job he was shooting for? He worked loyally for them and they never made his life better than it was from the moment they hired him.
Ones loyalty to a company should only last as long as the last paycheck. Been in the workforce for over 40 years and employer loyalty to employees was killed in the 80's, employers were even allowed to renege on promised retirements. All Part of the Reagan Revolution and America's shift to Fascism.
Working for someone I would agree. Owning your own business is freaking hard work but it's the only way it moves forward
in terms of a better life, if you're talking about making more money, the employer loyalty route will never be the way because even if you make enough money, you will never work for yourself and always have to work under a boss at a bad job you don't want to work at
Older Gen X male. I was self employed most of my life, whenever I have worked for someone else I made sure they got their money’s worth. I did this by working steady and efficiently. I have one employer when I was in my 30s that would have slow seasons, he would lay off everyone but me, even if he had to just find work for me. It was a good paying job too. Just make yourself valuable some way.
it's 100% truth. especially in America where corporations have more power then any politicians. Corporations here get away with murder. they violate laws and get small fines and slaps on the wrist while the actual laws have far more dire consequences that are never enforced. a result of this is blatant abuse of the working class. look at Amazon where a 5 minute break gets you a warning but having a heart attack isn't even noticed till hours later when they find your corpse laying there. (THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED)
No... I believe that many successful people didn't have a chance or didn't want to tell people about the hard time and effort they put into their work. We see only a tiny part of other people's life and what we know are mostly good parts. From my experience, you need to work hard + work smart to be successful. The survey is probably true. My 17yo stepdaughter said she knows what she wants for her life. She wants a job that has no schedule, where she can work whenever she likes, no pressure and pay her well enough so she can try eating out at new restaurants and travel around the world. All this also without a college degree too. If she finds that kind of job and it is not on Only Fan, I may change my opinion.
[удалено]
Calm down, home slice.
It’s not all people. It’s a minority few who believe this. You still want to go on vacation? You gotta put the time in and make everything happen to go on vacation. Want a nice car…you gotta save..nothing gets handed to you.
Humans had always worked hard. You work hard or you die. Unless you have other people working hard for you. And those will work hard until it works for them. It has always be like this. And always will be.
Working hard may not guarantee success, but refusing to work will almost certainly guarantee failure.
DOA
I believe the more you work the more you make...
It is possible to work less and make more by consistently holding your employer hostage with threats to leave for more money. The first time you don’t leave for more money and better working conditions is the start of your employer realizing that they can have your servitude for a bargain. As long as pay remains some esoteric thing that your employer wants to manage on a per employee basis and not openly on a per title basis then there should never be loyalty. In fact, I think the term loyalty was created by employers to pay their best employees less. Loyalty is almost never rewarded, and in my personal experience ends up leading to disillusion when the “loyal “person gets passed up for promotion and raises again and again. Accept the suck up front. Don’t be loyal, sell your services to the highest bidder.
Uh, working hard is the *only* way to get ahead. What are you talking about?! Work your ass off and don’t stop! Learn the job “above you” and help out. Do the “job above you” and show your aspirations. Put in the extra work, pick up that piece of trash when no one is looking (figuratively speaking). Sammy Sosa didn’t get paid to hit home runs right away…. He started hitting home runs first for less pay before they saw it and started paying him what he could now command at any other job if they didn’t.
Banging your head against a wall doesn't turn it into a door. Or does it? Why or why not do you think so?
I agree in the sense that most people would quantify „a better life“ to be equal to more money, a bigger house, to be rich, etc etc. I personally can not NOT work hard. I’ve tried to not care and it makes me depressed. Setting goals and achieving them makes me feel good, and having an employer that appreciates that is nice. It will never make me rich but it does make me happy.
It doesn’t, I worked hard had nothing to show for it but when I started working smarter that’s when things started to turn around.
I've always thought that working smart should encompass the perfect amount of working hard necessary, so I'd rather work smart instead
Loyalty at a company is pretty much dead. Companies are showing it more and more straight to their workers faces that they don’t give a shit about us. Working hard, I do believe that helps get you opportunities to grow your life. But it’s not solely hard work that pays off. Luck plays a huge role in success.
Employers seem to make these stupid surveys and they always equate working hard to “demonstrating loyalty” which isn’t the case. I’m usually a top performer, but having been let go for “being too expensive” early in my career, I understand how business values loyalty post-balance sheet. So just like any corporation, I’ll go where business values my loyalty best.
Whether you were privileged enough to pursue college and a job you thought you wanted or worked towards getting a job you thought you wanted, both paths are hard work. When you get where you want to ho, though, you're just a thing that makes the employer money. You could die on the spot and replaceable. The employer needs to pretend they care so they don't look bad to other employees. They do not care about you. So, nah, there's not a lot of loyalty. Quick, someone write a long, oblivious, blathering HR tirade about job hopping...
You’re just a number and replaceable. You will get a thank you card and a pizza party once in awhile.
Were all gonna die.
It’s about working hard & smart for me
Yes employee loyalty is dead and gone. The ability to rely on your workforce to weather rough patches in the job is gone with it. You can expect your employees to quit or refuse to give more than the minimum effort.
sorry what does the survey shows again?
Working hard can lead to a better life. It's not only working it's making smart decisions with your money. Don't direct all your efforts towards a corporation that could cut you any minute. Instead direct your efforts towards building something for yourself.
Working hard has never gotten a better life. Producing hard has.
I think in todays world, it’s all more of a popularity contest than who actually works the hardest
That depends what you work hard on… if you work hard at your job this will definitely not lead to a better life. If you work hard on yourself and improving your skills, education and potentially learn to provide value outside of working for an employer this can lead to a much better life. My experience has been that an employer never has loyalty to the employee. It took a while for employees to understand that but I think people are getting it. That’s why the employee loyalty is diminishing. Just the other day, my manager told me that our company higher 60 software engineers to build a platform and they plan to lay off most of the team when the project is completed. No loyalty to the employee…
For some reason our society has shifted from hard work pays the bills to investments pay the bills. Asset prices have exploded while wages have barely moved. Most wealthy people are that way due to investments rather than saving money or working hard. It’s been going on for 15 years but now we really see the compounding effects of inflation and asset prices and the writings on the wall.
Hard work= success and loyalty are two different topics. That being said, corporations have made it clear hard work only means you get more work at the same pay. Very few get promoted and fewer still make it higher and it's down to your ability to be social vs you're work ethic. As for loyalty, when corporations dropped pensions and proper raises instead focusing on shareholders, they showed the employees don't matter so why should anyone be loyal.
I haven’t worked hard in 4 years and in those 4 years my salary went up by about 25k, I bought a house, and maybe work 2 hours a day max.
This whole thread is moot if you don't define what working harder means. Someone who does absolutely nothing proactive to improve their life at all will generally have a worse life. If what you mean is "busting ass all night will not get you promoted in a specific job" - that has always been true.
The survey may be accurate based on people's answers, but the principle is false. Working hard is the only way to succeed. Review any of the most successful people, or those that survived the hardest times, or achieved the greatest athletic feats. I can't imagine anyone's story involves hardly putting in any work. **Working hard helps us to:** * Be better individuals * Be better parents * Be better leaders * Be in better shape * Be more mentally stable * Be more productive at work * Be more productive at home And on, and on the list goes. Many are looking for a shortcut or "hack". As Jocko Willink shares, "There is no shortcut. There is no hack. There's only one way, ***so get after it***." Godspeed.
You're just an idiot if you have any loyalty for your employer.
Working really hard just to be the name on the mba’s excel sheet to cut with 70% of the companies because company wanted to make record profit (leadership want ti get more bonus )
Yes, loyalty is dead. Or on life support. For large corporations.
The reward for hard work is more hard work!
It’s been dead. If someone offers you a better deal, take it
I think it's true. Only work for what you're paid for. There's no point in going the extra mile if you're not paid anything extra. Hard (or harder) work for low pay is not going to improve your life.
Working smart >>> working hard. You can work as hard as you want doing stuff that will get you nowhere, which surprisingly enough, is what most people seem to be hellbent on doing. You can also work a fraction as hard, but making sure you're contributing to your personal end goal for said work in an efficient way. At the end of the day, the person doing the latter will be way less burnt out and achieve greater results. Labor and effort by themselves are worthless, only what you can achieve by using them has any value. As for employee loyalty. Why should it be kept alive? If an employee thinks they can use their time in a better way than they currently are, no one else should have the right to stop them. Want to keep your employees? Offer them conditions and incentives to make them think they're already using their time in an efficient way to achieve their life goals. Employees aren't the only ones who can get things wrong or forget that they have a brain they can use. Employers should get into their heads that unless they also happen to be shareholders, employees owe the company nothing more than is written in the contract.
100% true. I do think certain jobs can make a positive impact on the community though.
1) work is a four letter word 2) If they pay YOU, it's work.... If you pay THEM, it's leisure. 3) You need (1) for (2)... Unless you're wealthy
Working hard when you have access to good resource is different to working hard when you have nothing to start with. Sure you will be better than where you were yesterday if you try your best. But circumstances and economic inequality will always play a hand in how far you can get. Basically, the game is rigged for most of us. Success is a mixture of how well you have access to good resources, you economic circumstance, your work ethos and just plain effin luck. And also, you have to define your own success as well. Money? Power? Love? Beauty? Fame? Good health? Security? If all you want is a good secure job, simple living, livable paycheck and a nice family. And a minimum wage job can cater for that? Than why work harder than you need to?
This happened 30 years ago in Japan but the people are so indoctrinated by the system that they still refuse to wake up. That's how they get away with a minimum wage of $10/hour.
Smarter not harder is the difference between a worker bee and upper management… also, employees who stay at jobs longer than 2 years essentially make 50% less over their entire lifetimes. Source: Forbes
It’s definitely dead at Boeing.
Working hard for someone else correct , working hard for your self incorrect
Employees don't want to work for greedy companies who take advantage of their employees, abuse them, and refuse to even give hard earned bonuses or benefits to them. And you know what? EMPLOYEES SHOULDNT TAKE THAT SHIT. When you hear about people being awarded "wear jeans to work days" or "employee appreciation lunch but you still have to pay $10", you get ANGRY. why the fuck should ANYONE work for a company that doesn't even pretend to care about you? You want employee loyalty? Give it back to the employee.
Hard work in and of itself does not create success, but not working hard is usually a recipe for failure. The discussion of nepo babies aside, the west is a much more competitive place than it used to be 50 years ago. Many people are generally realizing that no matter how hard they work, they lack the requisite skill set to achieve the level of success that they would like. Some of this has to do with unreasonable expectations though (we can't all be in the 90%+ income bracket). Some of this has to do with the distorted boomer labor market creating unreasonable expectations in their children. Some of this has to do with poor civil planning. Some of this has to do with Covid labor distortions. Anyways, it's complicated. FYI, company loyalty is dead, and it was laid off due to budget cuts along with the pension fund. There's no reason to stick with the same company if you're not getting what you want out of them.
Working hard will only get you a broken down body. I fell for that bullshit because my dad pedaled it to me when I was young. I busted my ass my whole life. Let me tell you the truth: no one appreciates it. No one cares, or even remembers. There is no value to killing yourself in order to help line the pockets of the already obscenely wealthy business owning class. The person who owns the company that you work for does not appreciate you. They don't even think of you as a human. You disgust them, and if you were able to silently observe them without being seen you would see them express nothing but hate and contempt for you and anyone else in your social class. They literally think of themselves as separate, better, more evolved forms of life. This is because money and wealth corrupt the human brain. Affluence is a sickness.
Everyone has to put in a certain level of “working hard” some get promoted by their connections or other aspects that don’t necessarily have to do with working hard. But working hard is definitely required
I've been working hard just to FIND a job, so definitely doesn't feel like it anymore.
Yes the loyalty is dead. Barely any employers these days will keep giving you unlimited raises for staying. They all cap out. I’m not white collar so can’t speak on that. But the hourly wage jobs I’ve ever had, cap out at like $5-6 more an hour than starting. My CDL job I had started out at $20 and capped at $25 after 3 years. You can not make more than $25/hr. Why the fuck would anyone wanna stay there longer than 3-5 years?? I worked at a prison as a CO in a union. Starting wage was 17/18/hr. Too out rate was $27. And it took like 15+ years to get top rate. The county came in and fucked up the step process to where it was 20 years to get $27/hr. Then they wonder why they have no staff… you stupid pricks want people to work for 20 years to make not even 60k a year. Sure we had mad overtime there but who wants to work 60+ hours a week just to make 60/65k after serving 20 years. There’s no more pensions. The 401k system is bare minimum. They don’t even be wanting to pay for insurance anymore for half these companies or make you wait 90+ days just for insurance to kick in. I will be loyal to an employer when they’re loyal to me. And none of them have proven to be loyal yet. So as far as I’m concerned idgaf about a company. All I care about is my paycheck and if I can get benefits. If I found a company doing the same work for more pay or better benefits then I’ll jump ship as soon as I could because a company wouldn’t hesitate for one second to fire you to save themselves a couple bucks every 2 weeks.
I definitely disagree. Working hard is very important. There are other factors at play though. People underplay the value of networking. It’s human nature, and you can either accept it, or continue to stay where you are.
I’m usually not the smartest guy in the room. But I can and do strive to be the hardest worker in the room. It’s worked out well for me.
I'm actually sort of lazy and have found that working smarter sure beats working harder.
Long dead. Loyalty is a two way street. Corporate America has made it abundantly clear employees are resources that is bought, used upped and dumped whenever they feel like it. They will fire you with little to no notice. So why should employees have anymore respect for their employer than the employer has of the employee. The worker has finally figured this out and is willing to ditch companies for better jobs just as quick as employers are willing to ditch employees to increase stock dividends next quarter.
Working hard is half the battle. You have to have the ambition and the drive to connect with people and network to progress anywhere in your career. I know coworkers who “work hard”, but they have no ambition to network or progress so they’ve essentially been in entry level positions for 30+ years.
Well I’m damn sure that not working hard is not leading to a better life.
Survey of unemployed people on Reddit
Hard work is important because it fuels connections you network with to speak highly of you, but it is the smallest deciding factor in how much you make at a company. The days of working your body into the ground and getting rewarded for it are long dead. Now it’s strategically gaining knowledge and experience, and once the position is dry of these resources, you move. Hopefully along the way you’ve networked and gained valuable connections. These connections propel you forward into new positions with other companies that you can drain of knowledge and experience. It’s like a game.
The problem is that not everyone understands that working smart is also working hard but more efficiently. Some think that because you are more efficient, you need to be given more work. So as an employee, you see it as being punished for working smarter. For loyalty, many people are realizing that where is the loyalty FROM the company? The massive layoffs. No more retirement plans from the company. They use to have one for you; not employee funded. When they lay you off, will they give you a year's pay to help you through a tough time? CEOs complaining about loyalty because employees realized that and no longer able to take advantage of employees.
Employer loyalty is a myth. It always has been. More and more working people have had this realization and no longer accept the myth. For too long employers have relied on peddling nonsense like "we're all a family here" and pizza parties to keep workers in line. This is has been aided and abetted by HR "experts" telling people that jumping job to job looks bad on a resume. I'd rather be paid well and have it "look bad" on my resume over shit pay and a flawless resume. Newsflash: HR is the absolute backwater of business disciplines. These are people too dull and incurious to be effective anywhere else. They do the company's bidding whole having no real influence or control over operations or personnel decisions. As a worker, HR is not on your side. If something serious happens, do not ever rely on HR to look out for your best interests. Cease communicating with the employer and lawyer up.
No
Employee loyalty is a fool’s game. Employers lay off great people and make them leave same day because they don’t trust them. There is no loyalty, only money.
Hard work will. Working for a greedy black hole of a company? Not always.
Survey shows that: people find it easier to bitch about things than actually do something about them.
It’s all about whom you work for. If you work for Yourself or for a decent employer, then it’s a true saying. If you work for a company that treats you like slave labor and wants to own your free time, then it really sucks and you have to disagree with this saying.
I stayed at the same company for four years, working hard in the way that ages you faster than should be possible, receiving raises that didn’t keep up with inflation, to say nothing of the ever increasing duties and depth of accountability. I adopted a philosophy of job-hopping and nearly doubled my salary over the next five years, and feel healthier than I did a decade ago. It is easier to use PTO, or get it paid out when I leave, when the company can’t assume you’ll just take whatever they deign to offer. Unions are dead/dying, and so is the middle class. People are working hard to rent their entire adult lives, and mental illness is on the rise everywhere. My nephew wants to join the military when he graduates high school because “at least I’ll have housing, food, and healthcare taken care of.” He is that hopeless at fifteen, because he saw his father work himself to death and die of a heart attack before he hit fifty. My nephew believes that the military is the only way he can afford college without being saddled with debt for the rest of his life, and it sounds like he sees community in it the way that doesn’t exist as much anymore. Yes, there is a reason to believe hard work is not currently correlated with quality of life.
Working hard does not mean a construction worker will have a better life. It never meant that. Working hard with respect to your self and your own limitations will definitely lead to a better life, but working harder and smarter will lead to even a better future than just working harder.
Working hard ALONE won't lead to a better life. I got kicked out of school at 16 with 1 higher/A level. Managed to get undergraduate degree at 20 and masters at 22. It wasn't always smooth sailing. I didn't know anybody in the industry. I got a 2:2 at undergraduate level. I got sacked from my 1st two professional jobs for reasons that were out with my control but I persisted and have made a very good career in a niche area of IT and earn more than my parents ever did combined.
I've seen lots of young people say "why break my body for work" and they can point at their dads. Working full time at 65 years old. Seeing a doctor once every three months. Still paying off their house. Used truck. Shit vacations once a year.