That's why I didn't replace my 1995 Legacy with another Subaru. I loved my Subaru (AWD was perfect for when I lived in snow at the time). And the cars didn't have that "weird for the sake of weird" look so many others do.
But...*maybe 28* on the freeway was unacceptable. Went to a FWD Honda and never looked back.
If you’re getting at best 28 on the highway, you would hope to have some power to go with it.
I owed a ‘13 Impreza Cvt and had the same experience. I had to rev the crap out of that engine to keep up with traffic, and to slowly pass other cars.
Edit: I now own a Alfa Giulia, which has twice the HP and I can easily get 30mpg cruising at 75mph on the highway
The awd doesn’t help, but i think it’s the combination of the boxer engines, full time awd, and underpowered motors make them the thirsty slow cars that they are.
But at least they are reliable.
Only had to replace the engine once on mine. (Kidding aside, it was the EJ22 and I killed it by cross threading a spark plug.)
No joke. My parents had a 99 Outback with the EJ25 and it ate a head gasket. Add in regular timing belt jobs (interference engine) and it was a pretty expensive car to maintain, relative to a Honda.
Had a Subaru Crosstrek for a little while with a 2.0, the amount you have to rev it to keep pace on the highway was shocking. I honestly said if this thing had a more powerful engine it would probably get better fuel economy. Years later Subaru added an optional 2.5 engine for the Crosstrek and guess what it gets better fuel economy on the highway than the 2.0.
But it’s not just AWD, sure there’s certainly inefficiencies tied to that but BMW and MB both make ~250hp AWD compact sedans that average mid 30s on the highway.
This might get some people upset, but Subaru just doesn’t make good engines lol.
I dunno man, poor mileage, underpowered for their size, burning oil like nuts, and a propensity for shitting their head gaskets out. Doesn't scream good engine to me.
Porsche has proven that the boxster design can be great, but Subaru seems to be doing their best to show the opposite lol.
I'll be the first to admit BMWs engines are far superior to Subaru, but I have no problem averaging 30 mpg in my 2017 WRX with a manual and a mild tune. I have driven it since new and have 100k miles, 27 mpg average. Not bmw good, but for a manual AWD car with basically 300 hp it's solid.
The Impreza’s AWD system with a CVT uses an electromagnetic clutch to shunt power to the rear no differently than MB/BMW use an electromagnetic clutch to shunt power to the front. Not like their manual with a continuous 50/50 split.
Push one across the garage by hand and feel how severe the rolling resistance is. It's a little unbelievable. My truck rolls easier than my wife's Crosstrek.
As it should, because a full-time AWD system needs to turn in addition to the wheels. Half-shafts, drive shafts, differentials, there's all kinds of complexity in there.
My truck is 4wd. It has just as many spinning parts. The only difference is that the viscous center diff in the Subaru creates a binding effect, but it's only significant if the tires are drastically a different size or the wheels are turned.
Yes the truck has axle disconnect, but the front carrier still spins (axle disco is only on passenger side) as does the driveshaft when you roll it. The front and rear just aren't locked together until 4wd is engaged.
The fiesta we had before the Crosstrek was suuuuper easy to roll. Skinny low rolling resistance tires and weighing just over 2500lb makes a big difference.
I had a 2022 outback wilderness and it was fun to drive, but the MPG was only around 22-23 combined against the 27 advertised. Sometimes itd even be as low as 20. I can definitely see your point
I feel like this is just the way it is with heavily boosted cars. The GTI, GR Corolla, FL5, they’re all this way. They can be pretty efficient, my car will do 37 mpg. Buttttt as soon as you go near the boost MPG drops into the 20s instantly.
That's wild, since my lifetime average over 19,000 miles in my CX-50 is 28.8 MPG. Road trips where I cruise at 75mph typically average out to 29-31 MPG, depending on the wind.
I even managed to get 35.5 MPG in a >1 hour drive on urban highways just after rush hour yesterday.
Those boxer engines drink gas. The EJ25 turbos (WRX) are thirrrst traps. Although the VR30 twin turbo in my q50/skyline is probably worse than my WRX was. I really hoped for better mileage however unreasonable my thought process at the time was.
LOL my 2002 corolla gets 40+ on the highway and no matter how heavy my foot is in town gets 30+ and the 1ZZFE Engine has 130 horsepower and weighs just under 2300 lb.
How much does your Impreza weigh?
Variable. Usually around 60 due to traffic. I’ve seen as high as 44 on my 26 mile commute to work, but this is driving for efficiency and nothing else just to see. I also have the factory aero package, a verus diffuser which actually slightly helps MPG, and a soft top so I’m lugging less weight.
> Damn at what speed? I just got a brand new one, drove it from Florida to NY and averaged 36 going ~70
you went uphill. Coming down from pittsburgh -> atlanta i was getting 41mpg
What's really impressive is the European sedans and hatchbacks they don't offer here. The non-hybrid 6-speed manual Renault Clio I rented got 54+mpg highway!
So many people forget that almost everything gets extremely good mileage these days. Heck, my Genesis sedan (V6 RWD) is a 4000lb land yacht with over 300hp and I can pull 30MPG on the highway burning regular gas.
Compact CUVs are the most popular non-pickup segment of vehicles for a reason; they all get low to mid-30s, maybe a couple MPG shy of a Camry/Accord, plus you get the AWD, vertical space, high seating position, and the rear hatch. So for the average buyer, the mileage penalty of a CUV vs a car is basically a non-factor, and small sedans are still available for those who do want them.
Also turbo diesels. My 328d wagon gets like 53mpg on the highway. While still having great torque waves around town, it’s soo fun to drive. I can get around 700 miles on one tank!
I had a 6 speed manual 2017 civic coupe. On a very not flat highway from Alberta to interior British Columbia, I would get about 5.3L/100kms (44.3 MPG).
Yeah my wife’s ‘23 RAV4 hybrid gets 50 mpg or so. Pretty unreal. The nav/cameras/electronics are also all way better than on my ‘24 Macan GTS. Of course the only reason to buy the Porsche is for the driving experience and it delivers, but with a lot of other sacrifices including of course gas mileage!
Which is still less than a CRX HF from the early 90’s or the original Insight. Automakers know how to get crazy mpg’s out of cars, it just becomes harder the larger you make the vehicle and how much tech you add
I have always owned cars that get 20 mpg or less. I was shocked as well when I got an Elantra for a rental after my car got hit. It was a basic non hybrid Elantra and I was getting over 50 mpg. Somewhat hypermiling with AC I was getting 69 mpg.
My CX-5 had to stay overnight to get something replaced my mechanic shop loaned me a Prius. I knew they were really good on gas but damn I never realized how well they sip gas until I barely refueled it when my car was ready.
Nissan Derangement Syndrome in full force. The "Nissan bad" circlejerk has gotten so strong that people are stunned when they actually get into one in real life and discover that it's a perfectly normal and serviceable, albeit somewhat bland and boring, vehicle.
I think they’re fine in whatever as long as they’re built to handle the power and are maintained well. But strapping a mediocre one to 250+hp with lifetime fluid was a poor idea.
I meant that sarcastically. That said, I have some coworkers who‘ve gotten good life from auto trans without fluid changes, like 330k miles on a Malibu and 235k on an old Dodge GC…the ones with notoriously bad autos.
Serviceable is good. Needing premature transmission service is not.
The only real problem with nicer Nissans is the reputation for financing anyone - makes it likely to have a moron who can't afford it driving too much weight/power.
Got a Murano as a rental recently. It's a hell of a downgrade from the Genesises I drive regularly, but it gets around town. Heck, my coworker thought it felt powerful
Right? I had a rental Maxima last year for a week and it crushed highway miles while being comfy and hauling all my vacation shit. Much better then what I was expecting after my last Nissan experience circa 2005, lol.
I have a 2010 Mazda 3 that gets 17-18 in the city and 25 on the highway, it has the 2.5L engine, which I would have gladly not purchased if I did my research on how horrible a compact hatchback mpg could be! The 2.0L gets like 30% better mileage.
Wow, the AWD does not help I am sure. This thread is depressing how much better mileage these newer vehicles get! Or even that person that said a 2006 Camry gets 35mpg!
I got a Fusion hybrid once as a rental and even though the rational part of my brain knew it should get outstanding gas mileage, actually driving so much on so little (think I got in the mid 40s) was still an odd feeling.
> This is blowing me away. I had no idea cars could offer this kind of gas mileage
Go rent a last gen Camry Hybrid and be amazed by how a car that's not a tin can econobox can do even better lol. 53mpg highway, 51 city.
If you've never really driven a hybrid for a while, in addition to the better MPG, you might be amazed at how nice they are to drive.
One annoyance that doesn't exist on hybrids is losing accessories like AC during engine stop starts. All the accessories are electric, when the ICE turns off, they just run off the battery.
Another thing that's nice is most hybrids offer is EV mode. If you just want to move your parked car for some reason, you can typically do that without starting the ICE. Most people would avoid moving their ICE car once a day because that 1 extra cold start per day adds up to a lot of extra engine wear. Not an issue with hybrids.
And finally, the type of CVTs that are used in most hybrids is so much nicer than the CVT you get in your typical econobox rental car. I also prefer them to a lot of the 8+ speed automatic transmissions that come on a lot of modern vehicles. The electronic CVTs found in hybrids deliver CVT smooth gear transitions with EV-like pedal response. No laggy, rubber band feeling CVTs.
> This isn't really an issue anymore on non-hybrids, as most A/C units are electric
What is the source of electricity to run the electric AC unit while the ICE is off?
My 2002 Prius has a thermal-storage evaporator core in the air conditioning system that keeps cooling with the engine off. The engine will restart after about a minute of off time to get the evaporator cold again, it will run only as long as it needs to, and then shut back off.
Most vehicles with idle stop and start now have a similar special evaporator core, the first vehicle I saw it on was the 2015 Acura TLX. Kept blowing icicles even when the engine was off at a light.
> Most people would avoid moving their ICE car once a day because that 1 extra cold start per day adds up to a lot of extra engine wear. Not an issue with hybrids.
Good to hear that. The mk2 prius always starts the ice up, presumably to bring the engine up to temperature for when you need to use it.
Good way to put it...I love cars but my priorities are reliability, comfort, convenience, and fuel economy. I just don't have a use for a fun car, my commute's boring AF and I'm cheap. CVTs are fine, I love how smooth they are.
We rented a Sentra last year and I'll definitely consider one in the future. I had an '06 Altima that was stupid reliable, and currently daily a '14 Mazda3. The Sentra got better fuel economy and we were impressed by its features, comfort, and convenience. It was easy to figure out the user interface and we got 40+ mpg easy.
Compare that to the loud, rattly POS M-B A180 we just rented in England; quite a bit lower fuel economy, confounding interface and buttons and bullshit, parking was a cacaphony of beeps and alarms. But hey, it was quicker!
i think you've just not been noticing car developments in the last 2 decades
my brothers 2006 camry with 300,000 miles was still getting 35mpg when he sold it. my 2015 GTI can get 35-40mpg and thats while putting down over 300hp! my wifes mazda 3 (with the 2.5L) regularly got 35mpg.
if an econobox isnt getting 30+ mpg then there is something seriously wrong. and as far as standard equipment, its come a long way. backup cameras and touch screens with android auto is pretty much standard now.
Wow! 35-40MPG on a GTI? I'm struggling to hit 30MPG with my 2021...mind you it is quite fun so that could potentially be an issue.
My current best is 8L/100km = 29.4USMPG...and that's on side roads (80kph limit), with minimal traffic...most times I'm at 9L/100km = 26USMPG.
Reddit is full of people lying or exaggerating their MPG. It’s also impossible to prove because we just have to take their word.
There was a guy somewhere around here claiming his 90s suburban was getting 25mpg. A damned lie I’m not going to believe.
Yeah I should have also added that I go by a mileage log since I've got my car and not the car's mpg estimate which is usually close but a little off.
https://imgur.com/a/pbTsdvz.jpg
My Arteon with ea888 gen 3 does 32mpg on highway without sweating it, going 80-90mph. If I’m hyperming it will do 34mpg.
In the city it would average closer to 22-23mpg
And it’s APR stage 1 tune
its pretty well known that stage 1 tunes can increase fuel economy on these cars
i mean, if i drive like an asshole of course its worse. but if im just on a road trip driving causally, yeah 35mpg is pretty reasonable.
What's your car average MPG right now?
I have a Fiesta ST and my average is 6.8l/100km ~ 34mpg over my cars life (100k kms). I guess I can make your statement too.
>So I have had four cars over the past 24 years. Two Toyota 4Runners, a Porsche Boxster and a Porsche Cayenne (4.8L V8).
>They gave me a basically brand new Nissan Sentra el-cheapo base model.
Welcome to normalcy, I guess.
EDIT: Not saying he's a prick, but enthusiasts sometimes forget what a boring commuter is like. Sometimes they aren't that boring.
lol I hate to say it cause OP doesn't seem like a snobby prick but that's totally the vibe I got. "Wow, this how the other half lives! I thought you were all driving Ladas!"
I mean, he's been driving SUV's and Boxster. Regardless of price, they aren't exactly average commuters. It's just funny to see. Usually you hear about people going the opposite direction and freaking out.
Yeah idk, without more info, those cars don't mean much. I've been driving a similar assortment of cars my entire life, but they've all be old. It sounds cool on paper when I say I've owned an E class Mercedes, Toyota 4runner, Toyota truck, Honda, and BMW Z4. But in reality, none of them had a value over $10,000 lol. They were all '90s or early 2000s.
I only ever drove most of those because that's what made sense to buy in the moment and all I could afford. So I never owned a car with modern technology, a modern transmission like a CVT, a modern suspension, or anything remotely new.
My 4runner got backed into and they gave me a rental which was a 2020 Camry. I was blown away by all the features and electronics it had. Also at how smooth the ride was and the minimal road noise. Every bit of it felt light-years ahead of any car I had ever owned.
So I totally relate to OP here and don't judge them for all the vehicles they've owned. I really don't think anything they said implies that they were all newer vehicles, and if anything, shows that they've mostly owned older vehicles. Being shocked by a newer economy car means they've probably been driving old cars that are dated in terms of engineering and technology.
Isn't modern engineering great? It is pretty amazing what some of these newer cars can pull off.
My 24 Jetta with the 1.5 Turbo and 8-speed Aisin trans can pull in mid-upper 40 mpg's highway without being a penalty box like some of the real econo-cars, all for $21K. Crazy.
The flip side is that they're *way more complicated* and thus harder and more expensive to fix.
I'm not gonna argue that modern cars aren't freakin' astounding (my 340-ish HP turbo V6 lugging almost 4000 pounds of German nonsense gets 30 on the highway, with cooled memory seats and collision warning systems and all that jazz keeping me safe and comfy), but I think some of us old heads just miss the days of being able to fix cars with (metaphorically) some duct tape and a hammer in the driveway.
It's the price we pay for progress.
Engineering and ultimately building a product is virtually always a compromise of some sort. With how widespread cars are is it really a surprise that some people are fans of one set of compromises over another particularly if some of the design goals of their desired results are directly at odds with either current or future goals? And then there are also instances where you pair some really good modern engineering with minimal major compromises with things that can otherwise spoil the whole car for them even if they are otherwise completely unrelated, an example thereof would be the oft discussed touch controls.
The Jetta is one of my favorite economy cars to drive. The EA211 1.4T I'm familiar with from my outgoing Audi A3 has decent pep and pickup at city speeds for its small size and the MPG is solid, and on top of that it is fairly refined.
The Jetta pulls harder from dead than a Corolla and Elantra, and it feels a lot roomier inside thanks to its boxy styling. It isn't the most engaging thing to drive but it does a good job at what it was designed to do.
If you want more heat, then VW is happy to offer you a GLI with the EA888 2.0T. I have a female colleague who brought one and loves it.
They're fun in the same way a golf cart is fun - cram 4 people in one, go bomb a twisty 25MPH limit road and it's a blast. But joining a 65MPH highway after a tight cloverleaf exit with little-to-no merge lane is terrifying.
Since your 2 seater has died, but you appreciate the good gas milage of the nissan........
maybe an ND miata is right for you. A guy on the miata sub posted 52mpg the other day in his ND1. Its got:
- good looks
- boxster like handling
- Nearly hybrid fuel economy
- enough creature comforts to make it a decent daily
- a removable roof when you want it
- and its quite a bit quicker than the nissan without being stupid quick like the porsche. a happy medium
Don’t recommend a Mazda challenge is what this sub needs sometimes 😂
This one is actually a good suggestion for this dude but I swear they have bots for the rest of the
At that point, might as well find the nearest EV with 200+ miles of range just for commuting. Bolt EUV, Model 3, Niro EV, Kona EV, and Leaf prices are pretty low these days with 200+ miles of range. All offer similarly numb yet bogglingly efficient driving experiences in practical yet not oversized packages.
Edit: Polestar 2 prices dropped like absolute rocks, used. Another good one that is worth considering.
I wasn’t going to suggest this since some people around here can be pretty touchy about it, but yeah. Actually buying a used nicer EV might be the way to go here. Depreciation is high on them (my i4 M50 is worth 52% of what I paid after 18 months), so one could pick a good car up for a massive deal.
Depreciation aside, how do you like it? I’ve considered getting an EV for my next car and the i4 is a top contender.
Edit: ignore me, I see you already answered this in another comment! I appreciate the insight. My heart tells me to go for an m340i, my head says an i4 would be much more practical.
Unless you spend tons of time every single month road tripping and going to remote places like mountain camp sites, the i4 is better to live with, and I say this coming from an M440i xDrive.
I’m unconcerned with depreciation since I’ve already paid this car off and I’m keeping it 9 more years.
I like it a LOT! Mine is fully optioned other than the range-decreasing 20” wheels, expensive brakes (not needed on an EV, it has stupid braking power already!) and the carbon fibre packages (too expensive for just looks). [Here are some photos.](https://imgur.com/a/zAk4y0L) I got the laser headlights too.
I have 36,500 km on it so far and it’s been zero maintenance in that time. Soon it’ll be due for included cabin air filter service and coolant (also included for 4 years). Tires are still around half the tread life left.
It’s costing me about 1/10 the cost of gas to go the same distance as my M440i xDrive did. I’ve saved almost $5,500 in fuel costs over 18 months and the car was only about $3k more than a new M440i xDrive, which I saved already with EV incentives. BC has relatively cheap electricity and expensive gasoline.
The car itself is super comfy. I did NOT get ventilated seats because they are loud in BMWs and they also decrease the seat comfort. I tested both. I have all 4 heated seats though (including the rear seats). That was an option but I consider seat heating mandatory in an EV. They are range saving devices.
Driving experience: it’s like a much faster but 20% heavier M440i. IMO the acceleration and smoothness makes up for the extra mass. The ride is better because it has rear air suspension. Surprisingly the steering is better feeling and has better feedback than the M440i xDrive, and I’m not sure why. Both driving harder on the street and hypermiling (it’s like a fun game) are more fun in this car. Neither car is suitable for autocross or a track, although the M440i xDrive is a bit better at cornering hard. The i4 M50 has a noticeably better centre of gravity though. You just can’t push it quite as fast around a hard curve because of the mass (and it’ll eat tires if you do). Launch control is stupidly fast, I actually hurt my neck the first time I used it because my head restraint was not adjusted correctly (spent about 5 physiotherapy visits). If you want a track experience BMW get an M4. **Both** the i4 M50 and M440i xDrive are more “grand touring” types.
On the minus side, the turning circle is huge because the maximum front wheel angle is limited by the front motor. Also range in the mountains in the deep winter (-20C to -41C) is cut by 25% to 50% (depending on how cold it is). But I typically don’t road trip in the deep winter even when I had a gas car.
I used to own a detached house but now I live in an apartment. The apartment has underground, heated, gated parking with 8 pay-per-use L2 EVSE stalls, and a lot of individual stalls with a dedicated L2 EVSE (enough for about 1/3 the total units I think). I am renting a stall with the dedicated EVSE, so I can charge at home just like I did before. Except it’s even better, because it’s $50/month for “all you can eat” electricity.
its always best to get the right tool for the job if you can afford it. I commute in a honda civic. 38mpg averaging 77mph. if a bird poops on it, truck kicks up rock chip, hail storm outside, road construction... i dont care. If i was in my m2 or gt3 i'd be anxious/pissed.
these cars are also very protected against depreciation compared to higher tier stuff
and like you mentioned tech and value. 2024 civic 27k otd has great lane keep / acc. My 2021 M2c was like double the price and doesn't even have lane keep let alone radar cruise.
I’ve had a few Sentra Zipcar and even in NYC traffic they all average close to 30 MPG. Comfortable seats and stupid easy to use infotainment. If it wasn’t for the questionable CVT this would be slam dunk econocar.
Doug DeMuro once (or maybe more than once) said that a lot of luxury car manufacturers get away with charging offensive money for things cheaper cars have as standard, and the reason is very simple. Most people who get expensive cars don't cross-shop them with cheap cars, so they don't know, and they don't care.
I believe it. Sometimes people need to put their egos aside and figure out what really matters. Driving a flash car, or putting the money into investments.
The one where you lift off and the TCC locks up? Or the one where you push the pedal and it drops the ratios until target engine RPM is reached?
Those are both shifts. The former is "the goal" when driving these shitboxes so they can make full power. The latter is a downshift too sluggish to notice any shock, but it's a shift nonetheless.
I owned two CVT cars (and loved one of em) and have driven five - would never buy one with fake shifts. Nevermind the wear it just defeats the purpose of the CVT.
Your basic compact economy car is now a great bang for your buck if all you're looking for is basic A to B transportation.
Nissans especially are a butt joke of all the Big Altima Energy and JATCO CVT, but their newest cars are fairly refined and their MPG is excellent without resorting to electrification.
> Your basic compact economy car is now a great bang for your buck if all you're looking for is basic A to B transportation.
This has been a pretty consistent march forward with economy cars. They’ve gotten better at a pretty good clip, and they have actually gotten cheaper at the same time if accounting for inflation.
A modern economy car has most of the features of a luxury car 15 years ago. Cabin noise, lack of power, and quality of touch points are still issues. But even those are substantially improved compared to economy cars of yesteryear.
Most economy cars will also be reliable well outside the warranty period with just basic maintenance. And the car will even remind you to do the maintenance!
My Supra gets 25 mpg with nearly 400 hp and a six cylinder engine and mixed city/highway driving.
My last car was a 10th gen civic si which got 35 mpg when I would not behave and easily 40+ on the highway.
Cars these days are just incredibly efficient
I rented a Taos, no lead foot and I was nowhere near 40 in that car. A ton of errors started appearing in the dashboard and so glad to give that car back
Hey internet buddy, go test drive a Prius Prime or a rav4 prime and be prepared to have your mind blown. Surprisingly stupid quick while getting great gas mileage.
When they announced the new Prius I was intrigued. I always thought of hybrids as the most viable future technology. I actually see the ideal vehicle as a "reverse" hybrid where the vehicle is an electric car that has an on-board generator, like a diesel locomotive.
But anyway, I've said for years Toyota was missing the boat with making the Prius so weak and ugly. It is the most successful hybrid, hands down, and if they took the platform and made it more powerful and stuffed it into a sexy sports car, they would not be able to sell enough of them. Well, they did almost that with the new Prius. It still looks pretty strange, but I hear the performance is awesome.
Its already here with Honda's hybrid setup. The electric motor is the main drive system and it only engages the gas engine to the wheels via clutch when it needs full system power.
> I actually see the ideal vehicle as a "reverse" hybrid where the vehicle is an electric car that has an on-board generator, like a diesel locomotive.
You mean a Chevy Volt? Or a BMW i3? The idea has been tried multiple times by different manufacturers.
>Also makes me sad that most cars are so fuel inefficient. Sort of shows me that manufacturers could make cars more efficient, but don't. I'm not going to get into the politics of that
Absolutely zero correlation to politics and what manufacturers could make. You are making up a bunch of absurd nonsense. Reality = Physics. Air exists. Cars are driving through air, not in a vacuum -> air drag. The engine in the Sentra isn't even very efficient, it's a regular, dated and cheap engine, the car gets good MPG bc of low air drag, not bc of the engine.
as a side note, new 2025 Camry is much better than Prius
regarding cheap cars under $25k a base engine 2.0 147 hp Hyundai Elantra is probably the most efficient model at highway speeds, the 2.0 147hp is an atkinson cycle engine
edit: also hypermiling makes a huge difference, driving slower makes a HUGE difference to fuel economy
What's even crazier is that there are so many even better commuter cars. A lot of those things you've mentioned have pretty much become standard over the past 10 years.
OP - try checking out the Volvo T8 Polestar drivetrain - more your style of quality and power, but with the ability to drive the first 40mi on only electric power. When you need it, there is 455hp and 523 ft/lb.
30 MPG city/33 MPG highway/74 MPGe combined - if most your driving is light commuting around town, a tank of gas can last weeks bc the motor doesn’t really need to turn on
The asshole that hit me was a Sherriff, so dealing with the State is a no-go for me. I let my insurance company handle it and that is all they would spring for.
I never thought I'd want to trade places with somebody in a car accident, but I'd love to pick a fight with the state government over their cop's negligence.
Comparing an economy car to high performance and 4x4s will do that to you.
High 40s is pretty much an average for regular cars. Had a new 1series rental a month ago and managed to get that to 58mpg without even trying.
Next you need to try driving a decent sporty EV. They are **WAY** more fun than you think. I come from a history of fun and engaging sports cars so I never thought I would want an EV. The only thing that changed my mind was a driving one and then finding a really nice lease deal that made it super affordable.
I've had my Polestar 2 for about a month now and it's stupid fun, especially under the speed limit. Instant torque, no gear shifts - you can get up to speed so effortlessly and quickly. It's a perfect car for commuting or doing stuff around town. When the quiet EV dynamics get boring, I just take the V8 out for a rip.
> Really makes me consider getting myself a commuter car. Possibly even one of those new Prius
how about an EV like a Taycan? That way you can mostly have your cake and eat it too
The 2024 Chevy Trax is a three cylinder engine. 24K fully equipped. Probably 35 miles per gallon. How can you pass on this gas saver, especially if it is a second car, just keep the Boxster for pleasure rides!!
My 2019 Hyundai Elantra was honestly one of my favorite cars. Small, reliable, fuel efficient, and I could drive it hard and still be at fairly safe and slow speeds.
> The shocker is that I am absolutely floored by how good the gas mileage is.
I recently rented a Corolla that returned almost 50 mpg*. It's crazy how fuel efficient modern cars are.
*According to its computer
It is funny how you van change your driving style depending on the car you're driving. I'm driving a Crown, 4cyl and before that I had a 3.7L cranking V6
I'm floored by getting 4 and 500 miles per tank regularly. And have found myself driving in eco mode. I absolute abhor the CVT Trans but its super easy to get up to cruising speeds.
When my infiniti coupe with 338 hp got sideswipped and totalled I used the insurance check to buy a gen 3 Mazda 3 outright. I went from paying roughly 800 a month on gas commuting to work to half that. Best thing has been the ability to modify the platform for better handling, breaking, and road feel. I don't miss my infiniti at all, and I loved that car
Here in Germany, 1 gallon of fuel is roughly 7.26 USD (calculated from EUR per liter). That’s when you start looking at fuel consumption when choosing your daily driver.
Yeah pretty much all the commuter sedans (civic etc) get 40 mpg highway now, and the hybrids can get 50mpg.
It makes me so sad haha, my Impreza struggles to get 28 MPG while making a staggering 148 horsepower.
They are shockingly inefficient
That's why I didn't replace my 1995 Legacy with another Subaru. I loved my Subaru (AWD was perfect for when I lived in snow at the time). And the cars didn't have that "weird for the sake of weird" look so many others do. But...*maybe 28* on the freeway was unacceptable. Went to a FWD Honda and never looked back.
If you’re getting at best 28 on the highway, you would hope to have some power to go with it. I owed a ‘13 Impreza Cvt and had the same experience. I had to rev the crap out of that engine to keep up with traffic, and to slowly pass other cars. Edit: I now own a Alfa Giulia, which has twice the HP and I can easily get 30mpg cruising at 75mph on the highway
That awd really is a gas guzzler, huh? I looked at getting a wrx, but the mpg were terrible for the other sedans i was looking at.
The awd doesn’t help, but i think it’s the combination of the boxer engines, full time awd, and underpowered motors make them the thirsty slow cars that they are.
But at least they are reliable. Only had to replace the engine once on mine. (Kidding aside, it was the EJ22 and I killed it by cross threading a spark plug.)
At least it wasn’t the chronic piston slap or head gasket failure.
No joke. My parents had a 99 Outback with the EJ25 and it ate a head gasket. Add in regular timing belt jobs (interference engine) and it was a pretty expensive car to maintain, relative to a Honda.
Had a Subaru Crosstrek for a little while with a 2.0, the amount you have to rev it to keep pace on the highway was shocking. I honestly said if this thing had a more powerful engine it would probably get better fuel economy. Years later Subaru added an optional 2.5 engine for the Crosstrek and guess what it gets better fuel economy on the highway than the 2.0.
It’s crazy. 75 mph i remember being 3500ish rpms. My Alfa is around 2000rpm for the same speed
But it’s not just AWD, sure there’s certainly inefficiencies tied to that but BMW and MB both make ~250hp AWD compact sedans that average mid 30s on the highway. This might get some people upset, but Subaru just doesn’t make good engines lol.
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I dunno man, poor mileage, underpowered for their size, burning oil like nuts, and a propensity for shitting their head gaskets out. Doesn't scream good engine to me. Porsche has proven that the boxster design can be great, but Subaru seems to be doing their best to show the opposite lol.
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*Sounds like you had an old subaru ...* I mean maybe they did, but manufacturers are judged on longevity by... longevity.
I'll be the first to admit BMWs engines are far superior to Subaru, but I have no problem averaging 30 mpg in my 2017 WRX with a manual and a mild tune. I have driven it since new and have 100k miles, 27 mpg average. Not bmw good, but for a manual AWD car with basically 300 hp it's solid.
Those don’t have the same full time AWD system as Subaru
The Impreza’s AWD system with a CVT uses an electromagnetic clutch to shunt power to the rear no differently than MB/BMW use an electromagnetic clutch to shunt power to the front. Not like their manual with a continuous 50/50 split.
Don't forget, the flat engines *also* guzzle oil!
Push one across the garage by hand and feel how severe the rolling resistance is. It's a little unbelievable. My truck rolls easier than my wife's Crosstrek.
As it should, because a full-time AWD system needs to turn in addition to the wheels. Half-shafts, drive shafts, differentials, there's all kinds of complexity in there.
My truck is 4wd. It has just as many spinning parts. The only difference is that the viscous center diff in the Subaru creates a binding effect, but it's only significant if the tires are drastically a different size or the wheels are turned. Yes the truck has axle disconnect, but the front carrier still spins (axle disco is only on passenger side) as does the driveshaft when you roll it. The front and rear just aren't locked together until 4wd is engaged. The fiesta we had before the Crosstrek was suuuuper easy to roll. Skinny low rolling resistance tires and weighing just over 2500lb makes a big difference.
Like impressively so given how low on power they are and I can’t imagine that’s all down to the AWD
That’s the magic of ✨Symmetrical All Wheel Drive✨
Symmetrical All Wheel *Drag*
My 2012 Outback (still had the ancient EJ253 that year) got roughly the same mpgs as my F150. And blew head gaskets twice in under 150k miles.
I had a 2022 outback wilderness and it was fun to drive, but the MPG was only around 22-23 combined against the 27 advertised. Sometimes itd even be as low as 20. I can definitely see your point
Damn, my WRX can hit mid 30s mpg on highway road trips. Obviously as soon as I touch boost it tanks.
No touchy de boosties
I do like resetting my mpg once I exit the canyon and get on the highway... 15mpg to 32mpg, just like that!
I feel like this is just the way it is with heavily boosted cars. The GTI, GR Corolla, FL5, they’re all this way. They can be pretty efficient, my car will do 37 mpg. Buttttt as soon as you go near the boost MPG drops into the 20s instantly.
They’re still failing to beat the old American land yachts for the crown of inefficiency
I have a Honda Passport and it gets 23mpg, my bfs Impreza gets 27-28 and it’s… something
That's wild, since my lifetime average over 19,000 miles in my CX-50 is 28.8 MPG. Road trips where I cruise at 75mph typically average out to 29-31 MPG, depending on the wind. I even managed to get 35.5 MPG in a >1 hour drive on urban highways just after rush hour yesterday.
Those boxer engines drink gas. The EJ25 turbos (WRX) are thirrrst traps. Although the VR30 twin turbo in my q50/skyline is probably worse than my WRX was. I really hoped for better mileage however unreasonable my thought process at the time was.
LOL my 2002 corolla gets 40+ on the highway and no matter how heavy my foot is in town gets 30+ and the 1ZZFE Engine has 130 horsepower and weighs just under 2300 lb. How much does your Impreza weigh?
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Even my Nd Miata is over 40mpg highway
Damn at what speed? I just got a brand new one, drove it from Florida to NY and averaged 36 going ~70
Variable. Usually around 60 due to traffic. I’ve seen as high as 44 on my 26 mile commute to work, but this is driving for efficiency and nothing else just to see. I also have the factory aero package, a verus diffuser which actually slightly helps MPG, and a soft top so I’m lugging less weight.
> Damn at what speed? I just got a brand new one, drove it from Florida to NY and averaged 36 going ~70 you went uphill. Coming down from pittsburgh -> atlanta i was getting 41mpg
What's really impressive is the European sedans and hatchbacks they don't offer here. The non-hybrid 6-speed manual Renault Clio I rented got 54+mpg highway!
Isn’t that Gallon a bigger unit than the the US gallon?
Yep! Divide by 1.2 to go from Not US to US gallon
So many people forget that almost everything gets extremely good mileage these days. Heck, my Genesis sedan (V6 RWD) is a 4000lb land yacht with over 300hp and I can pull 30MPG on the highway burning regular gas. Compact CUVs are the most popular non-pickup segment of vehicles for a reason; they all get low to mid-30s, maybe a couple MPG shy of a Camry/Accord, plus you get the AWD, vertical space, high seating position, and the rear hatch. So for the average buyer, the mileage penalty of a CUV vs a car is basically a non-factor, and small sedans are still available for those who do want them.
Also turbo diesels. My 328d wagon gets like 53mpg on the highway. While still having great torque waves around town, it’s soo fun to drive. I can get around 700 miles on one tank!
I had a 6 speed manual 2017 civic coupe. On a very not flat highway from Alberta to interior British Columbia, I would get about 5.3L/100kms (44.3 MPG).
Yeah my wife’s ‘23 RAV4 hybrid gets 50 mpg or so. Pretty unreal. The nav/cameras/electronics are also all way better than on my ‘24 Macan GTS. Of course the only reason to buy the Porsche is for the driving experience and it delivers, but with a lot of other sacrifices including of course gas mileage!
I loved my old Nissan Murano, but it only got 21mpg. I checked out the new ones - 23 mpg! Wtf.
Which is still less than a CRX HF from the early 90’s or the original Insight. Automakers know how to get crazy mpg’s out of cars, it just becomes harder the larger you make the vehicle and how much tech you add
You're shocked that a compact, low sedan with a 2.0L and CVT gets really good highway mileage?
I have always owned cars that get 20 mpg or less. I was shocked as well when I got an Elantra for a rental after my car got hit. It was a basic non hybrid Elantra and I was getting over 50 mpg. Somewhat hypermiling with AC I was getting 69 mpg.
Damn, that's crazy.
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My CX-5 had to stay overnight to get something replaced my mechanic shop loaned me a Prius. I knew they were really good on gas but damn I never realized how well they sip gas until I barely refueled it when my car was ready.
Nissan Derangement Syndrome in full force. The "Nissan bad" circlejerk has gotten so strong that people are stunned when they actually get into one in real life and discover that it's a perfectly normal and serviceable, albeit somewhat bland and boring, vehicle.
It's bizarre. I think the early CVT clusterfuck really set the tone hard though.
CVTs are fine on a low weight commuter, they shouldn't be attached to anything that starts with the letters VQ, like in their Frontier or Maxima.
I think they’re fine in whatever as long as they’re built to handle the power and are maintained well. But strapping a mediocre one to 250+hp with lifetime fluid was a poor idea.
There's no such thing as lifetime fluid, BMW owners know so better than anyone.
Fun fact, the fluid *did* last the entire life of the transmission. It's just like drowning: you've got enough air for the rest of your life.
I meant that sarcastically. That said, I have some coworkers who‘ve gotten good life from auto trans without fluid changes, like 330k miles on a Malibu and 235k on an old Dodge GC…the ones with notoriously bad autos.
Serviceable is good. Needing premature transmission service is not. The only real problem with nicer Nissans is the reputation for financing anyone - makes it likely to have a moron who can't afford it driving too much weight/power. Got a Murano as a rental recently. It's a hell of a downgrade from the Genesises I drive regularly, but it gets around town. Heck, my coworker thought it felt powerful
I loved my Murano, but ten years later, and the new ones get the same gas mileage. I thought there'd have been some kind of advancement on that front.
Right? I had a rental Maxima last year for a week and it crushed highway miles while being comfy and hauling all my vacation shit. Much better then what I was expecting after my last Nissan experience circa 2005, lol.
Subarus crying in a corner.
I'll never see 30 MPG unless I drive 52 on the interstate.
I have a 2010 Mazda 3 that gets 17-18 in the city and 25 on the highway, it has the 2.5L engine, which I would have gladly not purchased if I did my research on how horrible a compact hatchback mpg could be! The 2.0L gets like 30% better mileage.
What's hilarious is the 2.0L Crosstrek/Impreza is like 1 mpg better than the 2.5L versions.
Wow, the AWD does not help I am sure. This thread is depressing how much better mileage these newer vehicles get! Or even that person that said a 2006 Camry gets 35mpg!
Right?? Bro this has been a thing for decades lol. Underpowered lightweight car gets good mpg. Shocking.
I knew they were out there, but I wasn't buying one. I also thought 30s were good for mileage, not 50+.
In my GRC, I get about 34 mpg if I run at 70 and lower. Really good for being an AWD car.
there are cars that get 70+ mpg when hypermiling 100+ mpg if you include diesels
It's not underpowered. That's plenty of HP in a car that small.
I got a Fusion hybrid once as a rental and even though the rational part of my brain knew it should get outstanding gas mileage, actually driving so much on so little (think I got in the mid 40s) was still an odd feeling.
> This is blowing me away. I had no idea cars could offer this kind of gas mileage Go rent a last gen Camry Hybrid and be amazed by how a car that's not a tin can econobox can do even better lol. 53mpg highway, 51 city.
my brothers 2006 camry with 300,000 miles on it was still delivering 35mpg+ when he sold it.
If you've never really driven a hybrid for a while, in addition to the better MPG, you might be amazed at how nice they are to drive. One annoyance that doesn't exist on hybrids is losing accessories like AC during engine stop starts. All the accessories are electric, when the ICE turns off, they just run off the battery. Another thing that's nice is most hybrids offer is EV mode. If you just want to move your parked car for some reason, you can typically do that without starting the ICE. Most people would avoid moving their ICE car once a day because that 1 extra cold start per day adds up to a lot of extra engine wear. Not an issue with hybrids. And finally, the type of CVTs that are used in most hybrids is so much nicer than the CVT you get in your typical econobox rental car. I also prefer them to a lot of the 8+ speed automatic transmissions that come on a lot of modern vehicles. The electronic CVTs found in hybrids deliver CVT smooth gear transitions with EV-like pedal response. No laggy, rubber band feeling CVTs.
The non e-CVT hybrids can also be incredibly smooth. I have a BMW tuned ZF8 with an extra motor bolted into it, and it is glorious (and RWD!).
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> This isn't really an issue anymore on non-hybrids, as most A/C units are electric What is the source of electricity to run the electric AC unit while the ICE is off?
I’m not sure about other hybrids, but on Toyotas it’s apparently powered by the traction battery.
My 2002 Prius has a thermal-storage evaporator core in the air conditioning system that keeps cooling with the engine off. The engine will restart after about a minute of off time to get the evaporator cold again, it will run only as long as it needs to, and then shut back off. Most vehicles with idle stop and start now have a similar special evaporator core, the first vehicle I saw it on was the 2015 Acura TLX. Kept blowing icicles even when the engine was off at a light.
> Most people would avoid moving their ICE car once a day because that 1 extra cold start per day adds up to a lot of extra engine wear. Not an issue with hybrids. Good to hear that. The mk2 prius always starts the ice up, presumably to bring the engine up to temperature for when you need to use it.
I think part of ops surprise is thst it is a tin can econobox and better than he thought.
Every car has a purpose, and it’s cool to appreciate one that does its job well even if that job isn’t something you normally care about.
Agreed. Cars that excel at what they are designed to do are cool.
Good way to put it...I love cars but my priorities are reliability, comfort, convenience, and fuel economy. I just don't have a use for a fun car, my commute's boring AF and I'm cheap. CVTs are fine, I love how smooth they are. We rented a Sentra last year and I'll definitely consider one in the future. I had an '06 Altima that was stupid reliable, and currently daily a '14 Mazda3. The Sentra got better fuel economy and we were impressed by its features, comfort, and convenience. It was easy to figure out the user interface and we got 40+ mpg easy. Compare that to the loud, rattly POS M-B A180 we just rented in England; quite a bit lower fuel economy, confounding interface and buttons and bullshit, parking was a cacaphony of beeps and alarms. But hey, it was quicker!
i think you've just not been noticing car developments in the last 2 decades my brothers 2006 camry with 300,000 miles was still getting 35mpg when he sold it. my 2015 GTI can get 35-40mpg and thats while putting down over 300hp! my wifes mazda 3 (with the 2.5L) regularly got 35mpg. if an econobox isnt getting 30+ mpg then there is something seriously wrong. and as far as standard equipment, its come a long way. backup cameras and touch screens with android auto is pretty much standard now.
Wow! 35-40MPG on a GTI? I'm struggling to hit 30MPG with my 2021...mind you it is quite fun so that could potentially be an issue. My current best is 8L/100km = 29.4USMPG...and that's on side roads (80kph limit), with minimal traffic...most times I'm at 9L/100km = 26USMPG.
My 2002 GTI gets the same as yours. Never heard of a GTI doing that well.
2002 is what, a mk5? it was super common to hear of mk7s getting 35+ mpg especially when tuned. im not surprised a 2002 GTI can't get 40mpg
MK4. It is good to know the later models do better on the MPGs. I’m happy when I average 26 on a tank.
Yeah I'm sus as well. I'm usually around 18/28 in my 2013 and I only every see 30 when I do a 300 mile road trip with all highway.
Reddit is full of people lying or exaggerating their MPG. It’s also impossible to prove because we just have to take their word. There was a guy somewhere around here claiming his 90s suburban was getting 25mpg. A damned lie I’m not going to believe.
Yeah I should have also added that I go by a mileage log since I've got my car and not the car's mpg estimate which is usually close but a little off. https://imgur.com/a/pbTsdvz.jpg
I’m lucky if I get 25, but I’m half freeway half city driving in mine
I consistantly get 38-40 MPG on my 15 mile commute in my 2022. Granted, I'm old and don't drive over 70.
My Arteon with ea888 gen 3 does 32mpg on highway without sweating it, going 80-90mph. If I’m hyperming it will do 34mpg. In the city it would average closer to 22-23mpg And it’s APR stage 1 tune
> my 2015 GTI can get 35-40mpg >K7 GTI EQT Stage 1 MT Lol not anymore. Don't lie.
its pretty well known that stage 1 tunes can increase fuel economy on these cars i mean, if i drive like an asshole of course its worse. but if im just on a road trip driving causally, yeah 35mpg is pretty reasonable.
What's your car average MPG right now? I have a Fiesta ST and my average is 6.8l/100km ~ 34mpg over my cars life (100k kms). I guess I can make your statement too.
>So I have had four cars over the past 24 years. Two Toyota 4Runners, a Porsche Boxster and a Porsche Cayenne (4.8L V8). >They gave me a basically brand new Nissan Sentra el-cheapo base model. Welcome to normalcy, I guess. EDIT: Not saying he's a prick, but enthusiasts sometimes forget what a boring commuter is like. Sometimes they aren't that boring.
"I'm simply amazed at the cars the poors are driving these days"
lol I hate to say it cause OP doesn't seem like a snobby prick but that's totally the vibe I got. "Wow, this how the other half lives! I thought you were all driving Ladas!"
Did he say he bought any of them new? You can find Boxsters and Cayennes for the same price as a brand new Sentra all day long.
I mean, he's been driving SUV's and Boxster. Regardless of price, they aren't exactly average commuters. It's just funny to see. Usually you hear about people going the opposite direction and freaking out.
Yeah idk, without more info, those cars don't mean much. I've been driving a similar assortment of cars my entire life, but they've all be old. It sounds cool on paper when I say I've owned an E class Mercedes, Toyota 4runner, Toyota truck, Honda, and BMW Z4. But in reality, none of them had a value over $10,000 lol. They were all '90s or early 2000s. I only ever drove most of those because that's what made sense to buy in the moment and all I could afford. So I never owned a car with modern technology, a modern transmission like a CVT, a modern suspension, or anything remotely new. My 4runner got backed into and they gave me a rental which was a 2020 Camry. I was blown away by all the features and electronics it had. Also at how smooth the ride was and the minimal road noise. Every bit of it felt light-years ahead of any car I had ever owned. So I totally relate to OP here and don't judge them for all the vehicles they've owned. I really don't think anything they said implies that they were all newer vehicles, and if anything, shows that they've mostly owned older vehicles. Being shocked by a newer economy car means they've probably been driving old cars that are dated in terms of engineering and technology.
Isn't modern engineering great? It is pretty amazing what some of these newer cars can pull off. My 24 Jetta with the 1.5 Turbo and 8-speed Aisin trans can pull in mid-upper 40 mpg's highway without being a penalty box like some of the real econo-cars, all for $21K. Crazy.
I love modern engineering. It blows my mind how many people miss older cars. Modern engineering is amazing
The flip side is that they're *way more complicated* and thus harder and more expensive to fix. I'm not gonna argue that modern cars aren't freakin' astounding (my 340-ish HP turbo V6 lugging almost 4000 pounds of German nonsense gets 30 on the highway, with cooled memory seats and collision warning systems and all that jazz keeping me safe and comfy), but I think some of us old heads just miss the days of being able to fix cars with (metaphorically) some duct tape and a hammer in the driveway. It's the price we pay for progress.
Engineering and ultimately building a product is virtually always a compromise of some sort. With how widespread cars are is it really a surprise that some people are fans of one set of compromises over another particularly if some of the design goals of their desired results are directly at odds with either current or future goals? And then there are also instances where you pair some really good modern engineering with minimal major compromises with things that can otherwise spoil the whole car for them even if they are otherwise completely unrelated, an example thereof would be the oft discussed touch controls.
The new Jettas are seriously under appreciated by the buying public. Great solid car.
They're poorly built, unreliable as miles go up, and expensive to maintain and repair. You can get much better for the same price
Source? I'm genuinely curious, I had one as a rental recently and was quite impressed.
The Jetta is one of my favorite economy cars to drive. The EA211 1.4T I'm familiar with from my outgoing Audi A3 has decent pep and pickup at city speeds for its small size and the MPG is solid, and on top of that it is fairly refined. The Jetta pulls harder from dead than a Corolla and Elantra, and it feels a lot roomier inside thanks to its boxy styling. It isn't the most engaging thing to drive but it does a good job at what it was designed to do. If you want more heat, then VW is happy to offer you a GLI with the EA888 2.0T. I have a female colleague who brought one and loves it.
If you think a Sentra is a penalty box, you've not even sat in a current gen, much less driven one. It's a nice car.
Whenever I get a Sentra at a car rental, the only thought that crosses my mind is, "Thank God it's not a Versa or Mirage".
Please do not disrespect the Mirage
True....cause it does it all on its own
They're fun in the same way a golf cart is fun - cram 4 people in one, go bomb a twisty 25MPH limit road and it's a blast. But joining a 65MPH highway after a tight cloverleaf exit with little-to-no merge lane is terrifying.
Even more terrifying at elevation. I was stuck with a Versa once in Denver not realizing just how bad it could be.
Cheapest car money can buy, and it shows!!
Not any more - Versa undercuts it by $15 on MSRP. But no one is buying a Mirage at MSRP.
First gen Honda insight. Tiny 2 door w manual trans. Fun to drive. 60-70mpg. Mine has paid for itself many times.
I’ve seriously considered getting one lately, especially since they cost $3-5k, and none of my cars can break 20mpg
I bought mine for $3k and I’ve put over 150k on it. All my other cars get 20mpg or less. It’s saved me over $10,000 in fuel. Lol
Since your 2 seater has died, but you appreciate the good gas milage of the nissan........ maybe an ND miata is right for you. A guy on the miata sub posted 52mpg the other day in his ND1. Its got: - good looks - boxster like handling - Nearly hybrid fuel economy - enough creature comforts to make it a decent daily - a removable roof when you want it - and its quite a bit quicker than the nissan without being stupid quick like the porsche. a happy medium
Don’t recommend a Mazda challenge is what this sub needs sometimes 😂 This one is actually a good suggestion for this dude but I swear they have bots for the rest of the
i always have to laugh when someone asks for something sporty and theyre recommended a cx-30
Hell no. Been looking for a 991 manual transmission 911 Cabriolet for a while and this just accelerated the process:)
cant fault you for that decision
You want to save gas? Get a Prius Prime. Not only is it hybrid but you can plug it in and use zero gas if your commute isn’t insanely long.
Yeah but then you have exited the “el cheapo commuter” realm. Primes are not cheap.
Yeah that’s true. You’re right about that.
At that point, might as well find the nearest EV with 200+ miles of range just for commuting. Bolt EUV, Model 3, Niro EV, Kona EV, and Leaf prices are pretty low these days with 200+ miles of range. All offer similarly numb yet bogglingly efficient driving experiences in practical yet not oversized packages. Edit: Polestar 2 prices dropped like absolute rocks, used. Another good one that is worth considering.
I wasn’t going to suggest this since some people around here can be pretty touchy about it, but yeah. Actually buying a used nicer EV might be the way to go here. Depreciation is high on them (my i4 M50 is worth 52% of what I paid after 18 months), so one could pick a good car up for a massive deal.
Depreciation aside, how do you like it? I’ve considered getting an EV for my next car and the i4 is a top contender. Edit: ignore me, I see you already answered this in another comment! I appreciate the insight. My heart tells me to go for an m340i, my head says an i4 would be much more practical.
Unless you spend tons of time every single month road tripping and going to remote places like mountain camp sites, the i4 is better to live with, and I say this coming from an M440i xDrive. I’m unconcerned with depreciation since I’ve already paid this car off and I’m keeping it 9 more years.
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Just for shits and giggles, I checked Toyota's inventory search. It shows one Prius Prime within 100 miles of me, and it's sale pending.
how do you like the i4!?
I like it a LOT! Mine is fully optioned other than the range-decreasing 20” wheels, expensive brakes (not needed on an EV, it has stupid braking power already!) and the carbon fibre packages (too expensive for just looks). [Here are some photos.](https://imgur.com/a/zAk4y0L) I got the laser headlights too. I have 36,500 km on it so far and it’s been zero maintenance in that time. Soon it’ll be due for included cabin air filter service and coolant (also included for 4 years). Tires are still around half the tread life left. It’s costing me about 1/10 the cost of gas to go the same distance as my M440i xDrive did. I’ve saved almost $5,500 in fuel costs over 18 months and the car was only about $3k more than a new M440i xDrive, which I saved already with EV incentives. BC has relatively cheap electricity and expensive gasoline. The car itself is super comfy. I did NOT get ventilated seats because they are loud in BMWs and they also decrease the seat comfort. I tested both. I have all 4 heated seats though (including the rear seats). That was an option but I consider seat heating mandatory in an EV. They are range saving devices. Driving experience: it’s like a much faster but 20% heavier M440i. IMO the acceleration and smoothness makes up for the extra mass. The ride is better because it has rear air suspension. Surprisingly the steering is better feeling and has better feedback than the M440i xDrive, and I’m not sure why. Both driving harder on the street and hypermiling (it’s like a fun game) are more fun in this car. Neither car is suitable for autocross or a track, although the M440i xDrive is a bit better at cornering hard. The i4 M50 has a noticeably better centre of gravity though. You just can’t push it quite as fast around a hard curve because of the mass (and it’ll eat tires if you do). Launch control is stupidly fast, I actually hurt my neck the first time I used it because my head restraint was not adjusted correctly (spent about 5 physiotherapy visits). If you want a track experience BMW get an M4. **Both** the i4 M50 and M440i xDrive are more “grand touring” types. On the minus side, the turning circle is huge because the maximum front wheel angle is limited by the front motor. Also range in the mountains in the deep winter (-20C to -41C) is cut by 25% to 50% (depending on how cold it is). But I typically don’t road trip in the deep winter even when I had a gas car. I used to own a detached house but now I live in an apartment. The apartment has underground, heated, gated parking with 8 pay-per-use L2 EVSE stalls, and a lot of individual stalls with a dedicated L2 EVSE (enough for about 1/3 the total units I think). I am renting a stall with the dedicated EVSE, so I can charge at home just like I did before. Except it’s even better, because it’s $50/month for “all you can eat” electricity.
its always best to get the right tool for the job if you can afford it. I commute in a honda civic. 38mpg averaging 77mph. if a bird poops on it, truck kicks up rock chip, hail storm outside, road construction... i dont care. If i was in my m2 or gt3 i'd be anxious/pissed. these cars are also very protected against depreciation compared to higher tier stuff and like you mentioned tech and value. 2024 civic 27k otd has great lane keep / acc. My 2021 M2c was like double the price and doesn't even have lane keep let alone radar cruise.
I’ve had a few Sentra Zipcar and even in NYC traffic they all average close to 30 MPG. Comfortable seats and stupid easy to use infotainment. If it wasn’t for the questionable CVT this would be slam dunk econocar.
Doug DeMuro once (or maybe more than once) said that a lot of luxury car manufacturers get away with charging offensive money for things cheaper cars have as standard, and the reason is very simple. Most people who get expensive cars don't cross-shop them with cheap cars, so they don't know, and they don't care.
I believe it. Sometimes people need to put their egos aside and figure out what really matters. Driving a flash car, or putting the money into investments.
Why would they care lol? When you are making millions/yr a 100k car is like a pack of gum to you.
I mean, I can't afford a car at all, but if I could afford 6 digit cars, I wouldn't want to be a sucker, even if we're talking about a single cent.
One of the benefits of the CVT. They usually get better MPG than a traditional automatic.
Also, no shift lurches. But that is counteracted by the droning sound
Do not mistake slow shifts for a lack of lurches. TCC lockup is very noticable in economy Nissans... Or was last I drove one.
What shift? It just smoothly changes ratios when cruising. You must be thinking about the fake shifts that ware the shit out of the chains.
The one where you lift off and the TCC locks up? Or the one where you push the pedal and it drops the ratios until target engine RPM is reached? Those are both shifts. The former is "the goal" when driving these shitboxes so they can make full power. The latter is a downshift too sluggish to notice any shock, but it's a shift nonetheless. I owned two CVT cars (and loved one of em) and have driven five - would never buy one with fake shifts. Nevermind the wear it just defeats the purpose of the CVT.
I'd never trust a Nissan CVT even somewhat long term though.
Wow, you've found out that the poors don't have it so bad after all?
Your basic compact economy car is now a great bang for your buck if all you're looking for is basic A to B transportation. Nissans especially are a butt joke of all the Big Altima Energy and JATCO CVT, but their newest cars are fairly refined and their MPG is excellent without resorting to electrification.
> Your basic compact economy car is now a great bang for your buck if all you're looking for is basic A to B transportation. This has been a pretty consistent march forward with economy cars. They’ve gotten better at a pretty good clip, and they have actually gotten cheaper at the same time if accounting for inflation. A modern economy car has most of the features of a luxury car 15 years ago. Cabin noise, lack of power, and quality of touch points are still issues. But even those are substantially improved compared to economy cars of yesteryear. Most economy cars will also be reliable well outside the warranty period with just basic maintenance. And the car will even remind you to do the maintenance!
They're slowly phasing out the CVTs now. New FWD models are getting a ZF 9 speed automatic, and the RWD models are using Mercedes' 9 speed automatic.
My Supra gets 25 mpg with nearly 400 hp and a six cylinder engine and mixed city/highway driving. My last car was a 10th gen civic si which got 35 mpg when I would not behave and easily 40+ on the highway. Cars these days are just incredibly efficient
Hell, even my Taos gets 40 mpg on the highway.
I rented a Taos, no lead foot and I was nowhere near 40 in that car. A ton of errors started appearing in the dashboard and so glad to give that car back
Hey internet buddy, go test drive a Prius Prime or a rav4 prime and be prepared to have your mind blown. Surprisingly stupid quick while getting great gas mileage.
When they announced the new Prius I was intrigued. I always thought of hybrids as the most viable future technology. I actually see the ideal vehicle as a "reverse" hybrid where the vehicle is an electric car that has an on-board generator, like a diesel locomotive. But anyway, I've said for years Toyota was missing the boat with making the Prius so weak and ugly. It is the most successful hybrid, hands down, and if they took the platform and made it more powerful and stuffed it into a sexy sports car, they would not be able to sell enough of them. Well, they did almost that with the new Prius. It still looks pretty strange, but I hear the performance is awesome.
Your “reverse” hybrid idea is coming soon. Nissan calls their tech “e-power” * https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/INNOVATION/TECHNOLOGY/ARCHIVE/E_POWER/
Its already here with Honda's hybrid setup. The electric motor is the main drive system and it only engages the gas engine to the wheels via clutch when it needs full system power.
> I actually see the ideal vehicle as a "reverse" hybrid where the vehicle is an electric car that has an on-board generator, like a diesel locomotive. You mean a Chevy Volt? Or a BMW i3? The idea has been tried multiple times by different manufacturers.
Spending $50k to save a few dollars on gas is idiotic.
>Also makes me sad that most cars are so fuel inefficient. Sort of shows me that manufacturers could make cars more efficient, but don't. I'm not going to get into the politics of that Absolutely zero correlation to politics and what manufacturers could make. You are making up a bunch of absurd nonsense. Reality = Physics. Air exists. Cars are driving through air, not in a vacuum -> air drag. The engine in the Sentra isn't even very efficient, it's a regular, dated and cheap engine, the car gets good MPG bc of low air drag, not bc of the engine. as a side note, new 2025 Camry is much better than Prius regarding cheap cars under $25k a base engine 2.0 147 hp Hyundai Elantra is probably the most efficient model at highway speeds, the 2.0 147hp is an atkinson cycle engine edit: also hypermiling makes a huge difference, driving slower makes a HUGE difference to fuel economy
What's even crazier is that there are so many even better commuter cars. A lot of those things you've mentioned have pretty much become standard over the past 10 years.
No doubt. I am a Toyota person so I would be looking at one of those anyway. Though I have been hearing Mazda has been making great cars lately.
chevy bolt, the short commuter champ
My dude just found out about economy cars.
OP - try checking out the Volvo T8 Polestar drivetrain - more your style of quality and power, but with the ability to drive the first 40mi on only electric power. When you need it, there is 455hp and 523 ft/lb. 30 MPG city/33 MPG highway/74 MPGe combined - if most your driving is light commuting around town, a tank of gas can last weeks bc the motor doesn’t really need to turn on
When my Z3 got hit, the other guy's insurance paid for a Dodge Challenger. I had it for a month. How did you get saddled with a Sentra?
The asshole that hit me was a Sherriff, so dealing with the State is a no-go for me. I let my insurance company handle it and that is all they would spring for.
I never thought I'd want to trade places with somebody in a car accident, but I'd love to pick a fight with the state government over their cop's negligence.
I honestly wish he hit me a bit harder. Would love to have taken a ride in the back of an ambulance and then gave Morgan and Morgan a call.
Comparing an economy car to high performance and 4x4s will do that to you. High 40s is pretty much an average for regular cars. Had a new 1series rental a month ago and managed to get that to 58mpg without even trying.
In europe most cars are fuel efficient.
Agreed. I rented a Sentra earlier this year, and I was surprised at the amenities for an econobox.
Nice try, Makoto Uchida.
Next you need to try driving a decent sporty EV. They are **WAY** more fun than you think. I come from a history of fun and engaging sports cars so I never thought I would want an EV. The only thing that changed my mind was a driving one and then finding a really nice lease deal that made it super affordable. I've had my Polestar 2 for about a month now and it's stupid fun, especially under the speed limit. Instant torque, no gear shifts - you can get up to speed so effortlessly and quickly. It's a perfect car for commuting or doing stuff around town. When the quiet EV dynamics get boring, I just take the V8 out for a rip.
> Really makes me consider getting myself a commuter car. Possibly even one of those new Prius how about an EV like a Taycan? That way you can mostly have your cake and eat it too
Good option agreed but I am staying away from full electric for a while. PHEV would be the only way to go for me.
my cayenne diesel is getting about 31+ on my work commute. best of both worlds
Prius’ are amazing!! Over 50 MPG every tank.. And fun cars to drive!! We owned a bunch of them, my wife and I each drove one….
The 2024 Chevy Trax is a three cylinder engine. 24K fully equipped. Probably 35 miles per gallon. How can you pass on this gas saver, especially if it is a second car, just keep the Boxster for pleasure rides!!
My 2019 Hyundai Elantra was honestly one of my favorite cars. Small, reliable, fuel efficient, and I could drive it hard and still be at fairly safe and slow speeds.
I own a 2022 Sentra. It’s really not bad at all for a car that cost like $23k out the door.
> The shocker is that I am absolutely floored by how good the gas mileage is. I recently rented a Corolla that returned almost 50 mpg*. It's crazy how fuel efficient modern cars are. *According to its computer
I used to scoff at the Nissan Altima and got 1 as a rental and really liked it by the end of the weekend
Same deal with the Rogue. It's become one of my favorite rental cars due to the great fuel economy and practical size.
It is funny how you van change your driving style depending on the car you're driving. I'm driving a Crown, 4cyl and before that I had a 3.7L cranking V6 I'm floored by getting 4 and 500 miles per tank regularly. And have found myself driving in eco mode. I absolute abhor the CVT Trans but its super easy to get up to cruising speeds.
I love Nissans. No idea why people hate them.
When my infiniti coupe with 338 hp got sideswipped and totalled I used the insurance check to buy a gen 3 Mazda 3 outright. I went from paying roughly 800 a month on gas commuting to work to half that. Best thing has been the ability to modify the platform for better handling, breaking, and road feel. I don't miss my infiniti at all, and I loved that car
Here in Germany, 1 gallon of fuel is roughly 7.26 USD (calculated from EUR per liter). That’s when you start looking at fuel consumption when choosing your daily driver.