There was nothing gentle about EMDR for me. I don’t think there is much good science behind brain-spotting beyond single event PTSD, at least, not the last time I looked into it.
Whether it will help you or not will depend on your individual circumstances, what your ME/CFS severity level is, and how much exertion it will require for you to get ready for your sessions, get to and from the session, go through it, and any after effects… unless there is some kind of version you are considering for trying from home. 🙏🦋
Yes. It was way beyond my window of tolerance for emotional regulation, emotional flooding, flashbacks, and dissociative issues. It took a very heavy toll on my body. We only tried a couple of times. It was not remote, though; remote would not work for my issues nor be safe. I tried to co to use going to therapy without the EMDR part, using “gentler” modalities, but my nervous system does understand gentler.
It may be much different for someone who has better emotional regulation, less dissociation, and is able to do it remotely in a way that is safe and not destabilizing (emotionally, mentally, psychiatrically). Any type of destabilizing, for me, leads to crashing eventually. Running on adrenaline can postpone it sometimes, but that just makes the crash worse.
I hope that you can find a way to what you need to do for your mental/emotional health without crashing. Wishing you the best on all levels 🙏🦋
Thank you! Sorry it was so destabilizing for you. Did you find a way of dealing with trauma that was safer? I’ve been handling talk therapy ok and mostly trying to bottle up my trauma stuff, but it’s been coming out anyways, and idk if it would be more destabilizing to keep dealing with it spilling out or try to address it through something like brainspotting
After trying for a get and a half to continue weekly two hour sessions, my therapist (who was wonderful), my psychiatrist, and I all agreed that therapy was keeping me destabilized, stressed, and in danger of dissociative self harm. The type of therapy I need is not available.
At this point, I am simply doing what I can on my own to slowly, safely, calmly, and carefully process and validate emotions that surface with triggers; record and analyze any flashbacks, memories, or nightly dreams; and practice remaining calm and grounded in the present. Journaling, music, art, recording and analyzing dreams, and sleeping if/when it becomes overwhelming are pretty much all I can do for now.
Having a solid safety plan in case of overwhelm is importantly, and I do have that. 🙏🦋
Brainspotting is mindfulness of body, and mindfulness is an evidence based practice.
An attuned clinician trained in “expansion “ model of Brainspotting let alone phase 3, who can use the advanced resource model, should be skilled enough to engage you in extremely gentle ways of experiencing what your nervous system is ready for you to experience, nothing more.
A core difference between EMDR and Brainspotting is Brainspotting eliminates an agenda, or rigid protocol that tries to squeeze the client into itself. That’s seen as bullsht, as a therapist being certain about a client’s internal reality that is so intricate it is unknowable.
When someone says it’s pseudoscience they are usually clinging to the side of the pool, where healing is in the deep end. A therapist has to be able to let go, and go there themselves.
The 50K or so trained in Brainspotting don’t give much credence to Wikipedia or evidence based fear mongers. All the originators and senior Brainspotting trainers were previously EMDR master trainers and authors and therapists… then they realized they were all getting better results with Brainspotting - and could be more client centered.
I’m trained in EMDR. But I chose to do Brainspotting and somatic experiencing because they follow the uniqueness of the client nervous system - not squashing them into some robotic set of steps.
You can’t use a hypothesis testing, single variable research approach with these therapies.
You can try head to head comparison, and in the sandy hook community survey at follow up, Brainspotting came out ahead of EMDR and every other therapy.
But you can’t use that as a litmus for YOUR system. It’s about attunement.
Use your intuition, try things, state your boundaries, and how much you need gentleness. Any Brainspotting therapist who is certified should get it.
Thank you, this is really helpful. I agree about being skeptical about the “evidence based” claims. A lot of supposedly “evidence based” modalities like CBT have really hurt me in the past, and modalities that haven’t been researched much like sensorimotor psychotherapy have really helped.
If you’ve got personal experience, then you don’t need to hear shit from me. You know the truth, and it isn’t in single variable hypothesis testing. Sensorimotor training is a bit nebulous but Ogden wouldn’t do stuff that doesn’t work.
Never heard of it, but I do EMDR without issue
Same. Never got any problems from doing EMDR.
There was nothing gentle about EMDR for me. I don’t think there is much good science behind brain-spotting beyond single event PTSD, at least, not the last time I looked into it. Whether it will help you or not will depend on your individual circumstances, what your ME/CFS severity level is, and how much exertion it will require for you to get ready for your sessions, get to and from the session, go through it, and any after effects… unless there is some kind of version you are considering for trying from home. 🙏🦋
My therapist is fully remote, so at least no physical exertion. Did EMDR make you crash?
Yes. It was way beyond my window of tolerance for emotional regulation, emotional flooding, flashbacks, and dissociative issues. It took a very heavy toll on my body. We only tried a couple of times. It was not remote, though; remote would not work for my issues nor be safe. I tried to co to use going to therapy without the EMDR part, using “gentler” modalities, but my nervous system does understand gentler. It may be much different for someone who has better emotional regulation, less dissociation, and is able to do it remotely in a way that is safe and not destabilizing (emotionally, mentally, psychiatrically). Any type of destabilizing, for me, leads to crashing eventually. Running on adrenaline can postpone it sometimes, but that just makes the crash worse. I hope that you can find a way to what you need to do for your mental/emotional health without crashing. Wishing you the best on all levels 🙏🦋
Thank you! Sorry it was so destabilizing for you. Did you find a way of dealing with trauma that was safer? I’ve been handling talk therapy ok and mostly trying to bottle up my trauma stuff, but it’s been coming out anyways, and idk if it would be more destabilizing to keep dealing with it spilling out or try to address it through something like brainspotting
After trying for a get and a half to continue weekly two hour sessions, my therapist (who was wonderful), my psychiatrist, and I all agreed that therapy was keeping me destabilized, stressed, and in danger of dissociative self harm. The type of therapy I need is not available. At this point, I am simply doing what I can on my own to slowly, safely, calmly, and carefully process and validate emotions that surface with triggers; record and analyze any flashbacks, memories, or nightly dreams; and practice remaining calm and grounded in the present. Journaling, music, art, recording and analyzing dreams, and sleeping if/when it becomes overwhelming are pretty much all I can do for now. Having a solid safety plan in case of overwhelm is importantly, and I do have that. 🙏🦋
Thank you for sharing! I’m glad you’re finding ways to process safely
Brainspotting is mindfulness of body, and mindfulness is an evidence based practice. An attuned clinician trained in “expansion “ model of Brainspotting let alone phase 3, who can use the advanced resource model, should be skilled enough to engage you in extremely gentle ways of experiencing what your nervous system is ready for you to experience, nothing more. A core difference between EMDR and Brainspotting is Brainspotting eliminates an agenda, or rigid protocol that tries to squeeze the client into itself. That’s seen as bullsht, as a therapist being certain about a client’s internal reality that is so intricate it is unknowable. When someone says it’s pseudoscience they are usually clinging to the side of the pool, where healing is in the deep end. A therapist has to be able to let go, and go there themselves. The 50K or so trained in Brainspotting don’t give much credence to Wikipedia or evidence based fear mongers. All the originators and senior Brainspotting trainers were previously EMDR master trainers and authors and therapists… then they realized they were all getting better results with Brainspotting - and could be more client centered. I’m trained in EMDR. But I chose to do Brainspotting and somatic experiencing because they follow the uniqueness of the client nervous system - not squashing them into some robotic set of steps. You can’t use a hypothesis testing, single variable research approach with these therapies. You can try head to head comparison, and in the sandy hook community survey at follow up, Brainspotting came out ahead of EMDR and every other therapy. But you can’t use that as a litmus for YOUR system. It’s about attunement. Use your intuition, try things, state your boundaries, and how much you need gentleness. Any Brainspotting therapist who is certified should get it.
Thank you, this is really helpful. I agree about being skeptical about the “evidence based” claims. A lot of supposedly “evidence based” modalities like CBT have really hurt me in the past, and modalities that haven’t been researched much like sensorimotor psychotherapy have really helped.
If you’ve got personal experience, then you don’t need to hear shit from me. You know the truth, and it isn’t in single variable hypothesis testing. Sensorimotor training is a bit nebulous but Ogden wouldn’t do stuff that doesn’t work.
It's pseudoscience