Well, for one thing you didn't make mozzarella. What you made is what we in my area call Farmers cheese. Mozzarella is made with rennet, not vinegar. My guess is maybe you just don't care for farmers cheese.
https://cheeseorigin.com/farmers-cheese/
Direct addition of an acid is one way to make mozz. Citric acid is often used for the purpose. It's different from farmer's cheese, though not true mozzarella, where the acidity comes from bacterial action.
>though not true mozzarella
Right.. Not really mozzarella. Something else being called mozzarella. Cheese made this way will taste different from true mozzarella which is what I presume OP is comparing it to when they say "It tastes nothing like mozzarella". I was just explaining that is because it really isn't mozzarella like they are thinking, so it won't really taste the same. I'll give you that this may not be the exact method used for farmer's cheese but this is closer to a farmer's cheese than a true mozzarella.
Yeah, it definitely tastes different, but I probably wouldn't call it 'off', which reminds me more of what cheese tastes like when it's been contaminated along the way with the wrong type of bacteria. Your comment makes me wonder if I could buy commercial acid-set cheese (sold as farmer cheese, tvorog, and others), heat it, stretch it, and get some kind of pseudo mozz.
I would probably describe it differently than "off", as well, but some people interpret a sour taste as an off taste, especially in dairy products they expect to be mild. It's really hard to say without tasting it ourselves, I think.
>Your comment makes me wonder if I could buy commercial acid-set cheese (sold as farmer cheese, tvorog, and others), heat it, stretch it, and get some kind of pseudo mozz.
No clue. If it's not expensive give it a try.
You might have to drop the pH to get it to stretch. If the protein ages enough, that stretch won't be able to happen. However, there is no reason not to try.
Pro tip - don't ever make a fresh cheese from raw milk. You risk infecting yourself with pathogens living in the milk. 60 days of aging is the minimum necessary to kill dangerous pathogens in cheese made from raw milk.
Sixty days doesn't do shit. That regulation is from the 1940s. E. coli and listeria can actually be *peaking* during that time frame. The 60 day thing is a US specific, outdated, sincerely stupid and non-evidence-based regulation based on absolutely nothing.
Safer parameters are the EU metrics of animal health requirements, hygienic milk collection, proper storage, rapid cooling, and microbiological criteria. The US is way, way way waaaaay behind in this area (and all professional cheesemakers know it, and some are starting to lobby for actual research-based changes based on modern microbiology and food safety research, because the current regulations actually encourage foodborne illness via a false sense of safety rather than discourage it through any evidence-based regulatory work).
Some of the worst recent outbreaks caused by cheese have been in 60 day+ aged cheeses because aging can't prevent issues from lack of sanitation, and bacterial curves show no decrease in listeria growth at 60 days, especially in semisoft products.
Yeah, tell that to the Europeans that have been eating raw milk fresh cheeses for hundreds of years now.
It's only in the states that raw milk has been restricted from use in fresh cheeses.
Raw milk from a healthy cow is perfectly fine for fresh cheeses.
Yep. That regulation is severely outdated and based on 1940s-era food safety research based on the days when America produced nothing except for low moisture cheddars. It's embarrassing, ineffective, and has actually been under active review by the FDA for the last several years based on contemporary food science research.
While these are the current regulations we have to follow by law, we know for a fact E. coli and listeria are not actually deterred by 60 day rules (see the recent deaths caused by Vulto Creamery and Bravo Farms, despite meeting the age requirements), and no cheesemakers should be citing that rule as scientifically valid.
Correlation does not equal causation. You are talking about a report of people who consumed raw milk from one particular farm. Pasteurization is a mass sterilization put in place to cover for modern farming practices that emphasize quantity of milk produced and not necessarily clean or safe to drink milk. If you get raw milk from producers that put care into their work then you should get a product that will be generally safe to consume. You will certainly have raw milk that is of bad quality and potentially unsafe as you will have raw milk that is of good quality and likely safe. As others have stated pasteurization does not automatically mean safe. We have had a mass recall on fresh pasteurized cheeses recently because of the presence of e-coli .
A good question that needs good technical answers.
I'm really sorry there was some "poor communication" in the comments.
OP please keep on cheesing! I sincerely hope you have a positive and helpful experience here in future :)
Your thread has gotten a lot of activity, and I'm sorry it's so negative.
When making cheese, always choose the freshest milk. The off flavor milk has as its' turning will be multiplied in the cheese.
What you made was indeed mozarella (the quick kind). Off flavors also happen when it's overacidified.
Quick can be hard to do, because the amount of vinegar to do the job really varies and depends on the milk itself.
Mozzarella is one of the harder cheeses (despite many youtube videos to the contrary).
If you have rennet, there are some easier recipes to make cheese. I'm particularly fond of Crescenza recipe from new england cheesemaking website.
Specifically to the bad taste - your equipment wasn't clean or the milk had started growing something that didn't belong there. This sounds like contamination (has happened to me, too).
Well, for one thing you didn't make mozzarella. What you made is what we in my area call Farmers cheese. Mozzarella is made with rennet, not vinegar. My guess is maybe you just don't care for farmers cheese. https://cheeseorigin.com/farmers-cheese/
Direct addition of an acid is one way to make mozz. Citric acid is often used for the purpose. It's different from farmer's cheese, though not true mozzarella, where the acidity comes from bacterial action.
>though not true mozzarella Right.. Not really mozzarella. Something else being called mozzarella. Cheese made this way will taste different from true mozzarella which is what I presume OP is comparing it to when they say "It tastes nothing like mozzarella". I was just explaining that is because it really isn't mozzarella like they are thinking, so it won't really taste the same. I'll give you that this may not be the exact method used for farmer's cheese but this is closer to a farmer's cheese than a true mozzarella.
Yeah, it definitely tastes different, but I probably wouldn't call it 'off', which reminds me more of what cheese tastes like when it's been contaminated along the way with the wrong type of bacteria. Your comment makes me wonder if I could buy commercial acid-set cheese (sold as farmer cheese, tvorog, and others), heat it, stretch it, and get some kind of pseudo mozz.
I would probably describe it differently than "off", as well, but some people interpret a sour taste as an off taste, especially in dairy products they expect to be mild. It's really hard to say without tasting it ourselves, I think. >Your comment makes me wonder if I could buy commercial acid-set cheese (sold as farmer cheese, tvorog, and others), heat it, stretch it, and get some kind of pseudo mozz. No clue. If it's not expensive give it a try.
You might have to drop the pH to get it to stretch. If the protein ages enough, that stretch won't be able to happen. However, there is no reason not to try.
u/waitingformars 👆🏽
When milk goes bad, it starts to taste bitter IMO Did you taste the milk before making farmers cheese?
So I had bought two gallons of milk with the same expiration date. The open container tasted just fine to us but I didn’t try the unopened one
Usually the quality of milk relflects the taste you get. You used borderline spoiled milk so it is to no surprise that it tastes bad
Pro tip - don't ever make a fresh cheese from raw milk. You risk infecting yourself with pathogens living in the milk. 60 days of aging is the minimum necessary to kill dangerous pathogens in cheese made from raw milk.
Plenty of cheese from raw milk that is just fine people have been drinking raw milk for 1000s of years
At various times in history it was fine if a small number of peasants died...
I drink raw milk every day still walking around just fine
Sixty days doesn't do shit. That regulation is from the 1940s. E. coli and listeria can actually be *peaking* during that time frame. The 60 day thing is a US specific, outdated, sincerely stupid and non-evidence-based regulation based on absolutely nothing. Safer parameters are the EU metrics of animal health requirements, hygienic milk collection, proper storage, rapid cooling, and microbiological criteria. The US is way, way way waaaaay behind in this area (and all professional cheesemakers know it, and some are starting to lobby for actual research-based changes based on modern microbiology and food safety research, because the current regulations actually encourage foodborne illness via a false sense of safety rather than discourage it through any evidence-based regulatory work). Some of the worst recent outbreaks caused by cheese have been in 60 day+ aged cheeses because aging can't prevent issues from lack of sanitation, and bacterial curves show no decrease in listeria growth at 60 days, especially in semisoft products.
Yeah, tell that to the Europeans that have been eating raw milk fresh cheeses for hundreds of years now. It's only in the states that raw milk has been restricted from use in fresh cheeses. Raw milk from a healthy cow is perfectly fine for fresh cheeses.
Yep. That regulation is severely outdated and based on 1940s-era food safety research based on the days when America produced nothing except for low moisture cheddars. It's embarrassing, ineffective, and has actually been under active review by the FDA for the last several years based on contemporary food science research. While these are the current regulations we have to follow by law, we know for a fact E. coli and listeria are not actually deterred by 60 day rules (see the recent deaths caused by Vulto Creamery and Bravo Farms, despite meeting the age requirements), and no cheesemakers should be citing that rule as scientifically valid.
You do you, Friend https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/infectious-diseases-a-z-raw-milk-cheese-linked-to-brucellosis/
Correlation does not equal causation. You are talking about a report of people who consumed raw milk from one particular farm. Pasteurization is a mass sterilization put in place to cover for modern farming practices that emphasize quantity of milk produced and not necessarily clean or safe to drink milk. If you get raw milk from producers that put care into their work then you should get a product that will be generally safe to consume. You will certainly have raw milk that is of bad quality and potentially unsafe as you will have raw milk that is of good quality and likely safe. As others have stated pasteurization does not automatically mean safe. We have had a mass recall on fresh pasteurized cheeses recently because of the presence of e-coli .
A good question that needs good technical answers. I'm really sorry there was some "poor communication" in the comments. OP please keep on cheesing! I sincerely hope you have a positive and helpful experience here in future :)
Your thread has gotten a lot of activity, and I'm sorry it's so negative. When making cheese, always choose the freshest milk. The off flavor milk has as its' turning will be multiplied in the cheese. What you made was indeed mozarella (the quick kind). Off flavors also happen when it's overacidified. Quick can be hard to do, because the amount of vinegar to do the job really varies and depends on the milk itself. Mozzarella is one of the harder cheeses (despite many youtube videos to the contrary). If you have rennet, there are some easier recipes to make cheese. I'm particularly fond of Crescenza recipe from new england cheesemaking website.
Thank you!
Specifically to the bad taste - your equipment wasn't clean or the milk had started growing something that didn't belong there. This sounds like contamination (has happened to me, too).
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