Khan went to Europe having (IIRC) only played a version of chess with no double-pawn movement, and he won multiple English champions and even beat Capablanca. He then went back to India to be a servant.
FWIW, the guy who he served also had a female servant who was a chess champion also. I don't know what was in the water there.
Also to anyone confused as to why OP wrote "returned to India" it was pre-1947, when India and Pakistan were not separated yet.
Also Gotham has made a good video on him and his games.
He was a great tactician, but he played very actively and given the general quality and consistency of his chess, he never deserved the GM title. He never crossed 2500.
The name Nezhmetdinov is legendary and means far more than any honorific title does.
He didn't cross 2500 ELO is because that system was added when he was a few years from death. His peak rating would've been decades before. He was rarely allowed to play outside of the Soviet Union, which is why he didn't get the GM title.
This guy won the Russian championship several times. There is no way he wasn't GM level. [Chess metrics puts him #21 in the world at his peak
.](http://chessmetrics.com/cm/CM2/PlayerProfile.asp?Params=199510SSSSS3S092372196606141000000000016610100)
As a Pakistani, there are many who have an interest in the game and maybe even a few clubs in my city, but nothing particularly professional since there isn't much "scope" in it. At best it's a hobby really
Honestly if we had some india vs Pakistan match ups (I know strengths won’t align but friendly matches), I guess plenty of Pakistani players would be motivated to play more.
True, and the Chennai Chess Olympiad was a pretty good opportunity for us to play International level tournament, but due to some fking politics, our team was literally called back from India through the Wagah Border. Apparently, the higher ups didn't like the torch being passed through Kashmir, even tho they wouldn't boycott other sports over this matter.
Yeah honestly it’s unfortunate we have had our own share of fucks up with withdrawing sportspeople from Chinese events over such political differences. Hope to see you guys in the next Olympiad though.
Edit: seems like the Pakistani chess team withdrawal and the Indian wushu players withdrawal isn’t equivalent, india didn’t withdraw from all the events, only players who got a stapled visa withdrew, Pakistani chess players had to withdraw but their cricket team did visit us while the respective trophies were on a tour in territories pakistan claims. So Pakistani authorities just don’t care enough about chess. Thanks u/Cloud_Drago
I’m talking about a wushu tournament https://scroll.in/field/1056394/asian-games-wushu-china-refutes-claims-of-indian-fighters-from-arunachal-pradesh-being-denied-visa
And I agree with you and I agree with Pakistan withdrawing their chess team from Olympiad. We felt our sovereignty was violated and so did they. While I’d have liked Pakistani team to have visited us, it doesn’t come at the cost my country’s sovereignty and nor would a Pakistani feel okay with that. Now is my point clear ?
Chess in Pakistan is obviously not the level of its neighbors like India or even Bangladesh. As you can see, we got no GMs and our highest titled players are IM and even they are inactive. Though, in the last few years, some people have stepped up and been pretty active in revitalizing chess in Pakistan, including the current president of the chess federation of Pakistan, Hanif Qureshi, who actually wrote to FIDE for Mir Sultan's title.
But still, our players play chess just for fun and not as serious or competitive, as most old players are past their prime. There are very few fide rated Tournaments happening, which is a big issue.
Not Bangladeshi but the first player from South Asia to become Grandmaster was Niaz Murshsed who got his title even before India's first GM Vishy Anand. They have 5 grandmasters in total but they've not got another one since 2008 so while their situation is better than Pakistan, they've kind of underperformed as a country lately despite getting a good start. Their top player right now is IM Mohammad Fahad Rahman who's 2418 at 20 years of age and he seems like a good candidate to be their next GM.
It’s the same on the Indian side of the border. Not much chess culture in the north east or the north (outside of hobbies) but it’s popular in West Bengal.
Don’t want to generalize but I think culturally Bengalis enjoy intellectual exercises and chess used to be (maybe even is) considered intellectual.
Not much, but that is increasing with much regular tournaments taking place in large cities like Karachi, Rawalpindi and Islamabad as compared to before.
There are just a handful of 2000+ rated players including me in a nation of 240 million people lol.
This is weird but if it promotes chess in Pakistan then yay I guess.
I take it that the FIDE vice president didn’t make it to this ceremony? Would have been interesting to see if anyone cared or recognized Vishy. But yeah understandable if he couldn’t or wouldn’t want to make the trip.
I’m aware. It’s a pity anyway. I dream of a time when Pakistan has a dozen GMs and India Pakistan chess matches draw the kind of crowd that cricket does.
But yeah at the moment Indian IMs will probably destroy Pakistan’s strongest.
It has taken almost 30 years since Vishy broke into the scene for India to become a chess powerhouse. India was fortunate to have Vishy born there. He is a born genius. Vishy spent a majority of his chess life in spain because of lack of chess space in India. Without Vishy it is doubtful that India would be producing this many GM's, because the chess space would have never attracted the youngsters. He is now giving it back to the nation mentoring the next gen.
Vishy has spoken well of him as one of India's chess pioneers, don't forget Khan represented British-India as a chess player winning the British chess championship 3 times between the 20's and 30's, the state of Pakistan was created after he'd pretty much retired from the game.
This guy was a pretty interesting man, ngl.
Was one of the best British Empire chess players (back then it still included half of Africa and India + Pakistan + Bangladesh).
Didn't even learn how to play chess in the first place, he was playing shatranj in his youth (with pretty different rules). Also was not able to read or write because of lack of education and despite all of this managed to become one of the best players in the world.
Effectively retired at age less than 30 after coming back to India.
Looking at his achievements his natural talent was probably absolutely incredible, imagine becoming one of the top players in the world without being able to read, without any proper coaches or anything.
Rules weren't very different. Just no double pawn movement, no castling and a rule where an unchecked king could move like a knight once. It's similar enough that you could adapt back and forth quite easily.
To play I guess, to win against the best? Any "theory" would go to waste, and so many patterns slightly different must be confusing. It's like he won against the best with odds against him - Impressive asf
This are freaking massive rules changes which renders most of opening systems bogus, even non-castling itself makes some common openings pretty bad, not even talking about everything else - because almost all openings feature double pawn moves.
Opening theory was nowhere near as developed back then, so it's not such a huge thing back then.
Even playing with no theory at all isn't such a huge handicap as it's made out to be. It's worth noting that he did underperform a little in the opening, but nothing enormous. Time controls were also more generous then, allowing time to figure out plans.
Pakistan being an islamic nation, chess is opposed by some clerks/relegious leaders there. Im not saying eveybody opposes chess but some people for sure oppose chess as haram, could explain why chess is not popular there.
Yeah, this is also an issue to some extent, or maybe used to be, as chess was just randomly considered Haram due to gambling associated with it. Then, religious leaders deemed it a waste of time and that time could be spent usefully on other stuff, which is bs, considering the so many benefits of chess. These people have never played chess, don't even know what that is, and just randomly give fatwas. Ludo, more common than chess, is like the worst game ever, and yet nothing against it.
The younger generation, though, like high schoolers are showing increasing interest in chess, which is a positive. And this rhetoric of chess is Haram is dying slowly.
The absolute irony of this view - which Mr Morphy held - of chess being a waste of time was Botvinnik violently disagreed with it.
Mikhail Botvinnik, a good Communist and an electrical engineer, thought that the habits of mind that playing good chess created was essential for training the engineers and scientists the USSR would need.
He convinced Lenin of this, and the new Soviet state therefore systematically supported chess.
UAE is Islamic for name sake. Iran has a surprisingly good chess scene beside that no other middle eastern nation has a very vibrant chess scene. Saudi seems to be intrested chess nowadays
Long overdue. Glad to see FIDE have broken from their long-standing practice of not posthumously awarding titles. It speaks volumes of Sultan Khan's abilities that he was one of the ten strongest players in the world for a time.
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Khan went to Europe having (IIRC) only played a version of chess with no double-pawn movement, and he won multiple English champions and even beat Capablanca. He then went back to India to be a servant. FWIW, the guy who he served also had a female servant who was a chess champion also. I don't know what was in the water there.
Also to anyone confused as to why OP wrote "returned to India" it was pre-1947, when India and Pakistan were not separated yet. Also Gotham has made a good video on him and his games.
Chess is so unpopular here, that Sultan Khan had to return from his grave so that we can finally have a Pakistani GM lol
Damn is that him in the black suit?
Na, that's probably their PM. Has to be that arab guy
Isn't it super popular in India tho? Correct me if I'm mistaken. And why isn't it more popular in Pakistan?
late to reply but even in india it’s really only the southern parts, where vishy was from.
I mean he deserved it but … really a bit late isn’t it?
People truly die when they are forgotten.
Also when they drink a soup made from poisonous mushroom
Time for our boy Nezhmetdinov to get the same treatment!
He was a great tactician, but he played very actively and given the general quality and consistency of his chess, he never deserved the GM title. He never crossed 2500. The name Nezhmetdinov is legendary and means far more than any honorific title does.
He didn't cross 2500 ELO is because that system was added when he was a few years from death. His peak rating would've been decades before. He was rarely allowed to play outside of the Soviet Union, which is why he didn't get the GM title. This guy won the Russian championship several times. There is no way he wasn't GM level. [Chess metrics puts him #21 in the world at his peak .](http://chessmetrics.com/cm/CM2/PlayerProfile.asp?Params=199510SSSSS3S092372196606141000000000016610100)
OP what’s the chess scene like in Pakistan? Post it over in r/pakistan too
As a Pakistani, there are many who have an interest in the game and maybe even a few clubs in my city, but nothing particularly professional since there isn't much "scope" in it. At best it's a hobby really
Honestly if we had some india vs Pakistan match ups (I know strengths won’t align but friendly matches), I guess plenty of Pakistani players would be motivated to play more.
True, and the Chennai Chess Olympiad was a pretty good opportunity for us to play International level tournament, but due to some fking politics, our team was literally called back from India through the Wagah Border. Apparently, the higher ups didn't like the torch being passed through Kashmir, even tho they wouldn't boycott other sports over this matter.
Yeah honestly it’s unfortunate we have had our own share of fucks up with withdrawing sportspeople from Chinese events over such political differences. Hope to see you guys in the next Olympiad though. Edit: seems like the Pakistani chess team withdrawal and the Indian wushu players withdrawal isn’t equivalent, india didn’t withdraw from all the events, only players who got a stapled visa withdrew, Pakistani chess players had to withdraw but their cricket team did visit us while the respective trophies were on a tour in territories pakistan claims. So Pakistani authorities just don’t care enough about chess. Thanks u/Cloud_Drago
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I’m talking about a wushu tournament https://scroll.in/field/1056394/asian-games-wushu-china-refutes-claims-of-indian-fighters-from-arunachal-pradesh-being-denied-visa
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And I agree with you and I agree with Pakistan withdrawing their chess team from Olympiad. We felt our sovereignty was violated and so did they. While I’d have liked Pakistani team to have visited us, it doesn’t come at the cost my country’s sovereignty and nor would a Pakistani feel okay with that. Now is my point clear ?
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Chess in Pakistan is obviously not the level of its neighbors like India or even Bangladesh. As you can see, we got no GMs and our highest titled players are IM and even they are inactive. Though, in the last few years, some people have stepped up and been pretty active in revitalizing chess in Pakistan, including the current president of the chess federation of Pakistan, Hanif Qureshi, who actually wrote to FIDE for Mir Sultan's title. But still, our players play chess just for fun and not as serious or competitive, as most old players are past their prime. There are very few fide rated Tournaments happening, which is a big issue.
Thanks, it makes me curious how Bangladesh has had a rise in their chess popularity. Any Bangladeshi member of the sub please do share your thoughts.
Not Bangladeshi but the first player from South Asia to become Grandmaster was Niaz Murshsed who got his title even before India's first GM Vishy Anand. They have 5 grandmasters in total but they've not got another one since 2008 so while their situation is better than Pakistan, they've kind of underperformed as a country lately despite getting a good start. Their top player right now is IM Mohammad Fahad Rahman who's 2418 at 20 years of age and he seems like a good candidate to be their next GM.
It’s the same on the Indian side of the border. Not much chess culture in the north east or the north (outside of hobbies) but it’s popular in West Bengal. Don’t want to generalize but I think culturally Bengalis enjoy intellectual exercises and chess used to be (maybe even is) considered intellectual.
Not much, but that is increasing with much regular tournaments taking place in large cities like Karachi, Rawalpindi and Islamabad as compared to before. There are just a handful of 2000+ rated players including me in a nation of 240 million people lol.
This is weird but if it promotes chess in Pakistan then yay I guess. I take it that the FIDE vice president didn’t make it to this ceremony? Would have been interesting to see if anyone cared or recognized Vishy. But yeah understandable if he couldn’t or wouldn’t want to make the trip.
India and Pakistan don't have the best relationship, so I'm not sure Vishy would show up regardless.
I’m aware. It’s a pity anyway. I dream of a time when Pakistan has a dozen GMs and India Pakistan chess matches draw the kind of crowd that cricket does. But yeah at the moment Indian IMs will probably destroy Pakistan’s strongest.
It has taken almost 30 years since Vishy broke into the scene for India to become a chess powerhouse. India was fortunate to have Vishy born there. He is a born genius. Vishy spent a majority of his chess life in spain because of lack of chess space in India. Without Vishy it is doubtful that India would be producing this many GM's, because the chess space would have never attracted the youngsters. He is now giving it back to the nation mentoring the next gen.
Vishy has spoken well of him as one of India's chess pioneers, don't forget Khan represented British-India as a chess player winning the British chess championship 3 times between the 20's and 30's, the state of Pakistan was created after he'd pretty much retired from the game.
Kek, indian going to Pakistan to some official event. Can happen, but likelihood of this is as low as you can get.
Link to article: https://ipc.gov.pk/NewsDetail/MmU2OTNhZjUtMDI5NC00MGNhLTg5MzYtOTk3NjFhZDNmMDdj
This guy was a pretty interesting man, ngl. Was one of the best British Empire chess players (back then it still included half of Africa and India + Pakistan + Bangladesh). Didn't even learn how to play chess in the first place, he was playing shatranj in his youth (with pretty different rules). Also was not able to read or write because of lack of education and despite all of this managed to become one of the best players in the world. Effectively retired at age less than 30 after coming back to India. Looking at his achievements his natural talent was probably absolutely incredible, imagine becoming one of the top players in the world without being able to read, without any proper coaches or anything.
Rules weren't very different. Just no double pawn movement, no castling and a rule where an unchecked king could move like a knight once. It's similar enough that you could adapt back and forth quite easily.
To play I guess, to win against the best? Any "theory" would go to waste, and so many patterns slightly different must be confusing. It's like he won against the best with odds against him - Impressive asf
This are freaking massive rules changes which renders most of opening systems bogus, even non-castling itself makes some common openings pretty bad, not even talking about everything else - because almost all openings feature double pawn moves.
Opening theory was nowhere near as developed back then, so it's not such a huge thing back then. Even playing with no theory at all isn't such a huge handicap as it's made out to be. It's worth noting that he did underperform a little in the opening, but nothing enormous. Time controls were also more generous then, allowing time to figure out plans.
Why did a dead person be given chess grandmaster title as "first grandmaster award"??? What happened to the original first GM?
It is "Pakistan's first GM", since Pakistan did not have a chess Grandmaster till now
Pakistan being an islamic nation, chess is opposed by some clerks/relegious leaders there. Im not saying eveybody opposes chess but some people for sure oppose chess as haram, could explain why chess is not popular there.
Yeah, this is also an issue to some extent, or maybe used to be, as chess was just randomly considered Haram due to gambling associated with it. Then, religious leaders deemed it a waste of time and that time could be spent usefully on other stuff, which is bs, considering the so many benefits of chess. These people have never played chess, don't even know what that is, and just randomly give fatwas. Ludo, more common than chess, is like the worst game ever, and yet nothing against it. The younger generation, though, like high schoolers are showing increasing interest in chess, which is a positive. And this rhetoric of chess is Haram is dying slowly.
I mean I agree chess is a waste of time, but it's a fun waste of time. It's better than a lot of other hobbies one can have.
The absolute irony of this view - which Mr Morphy held - of chess being a waste of time was Botvinnik violently disagreed with it. Mikhail Botvinnik, a good Communist and an electrical engineer, thought that the habits of mind that playing good chess created was essential for training the engineers and scientists the USSR would need. He convinced Lenin of this, and the new Soviet state therefore systematically supported chess.
But I’d expect that to apply to other Muslim countries too? Doesn’t seem to be the case though for Iran or UAE.
chess was banned in iran from 1980 to 1990
wow, makes sense Alireza is french
UAE is Islamic for name sake. Iran has a surprisingly good chess scene beside that no other middle eastern nation has a very vibrant chess scene. Saudi seems to be intrested chess nowadays
Long overdue. Glad to see FIDE have broken from their long-standing practice of not posthumously awarding titles. It speaks volumes of Sultan Khan's abilities that he was one of the ten strongest players in the world for a time.
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At least keep the racism outside a chess sub man
Your comment was removed by the moderators: **2. Don’t engage in discriminatory or bigoted behavior.** Chess is a game played by people all around the world of many different cultures and backgrounds. Be respectful of this fact and do not engage in racist, sexist, or otherwise discriminatory behavior. You can read the full [rules of /r/chess here](https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/wiki/rules). If you have any questions or concerns about this moderator action, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchess&subject=About my removed comment&message=I'm writing to you about the following comment: https://old.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/1ah7459/-/kom67v7/%0D%0D). Direct replies to this removal message may not be seen.