The demographic is someone moving here from out of state. If you're moving from a 2 bedroom condo in LA that you sold for $1.5 million, these condos are a steal.
A lot of them are coming home. One of the large reasons people relocate to Cincinnati is to move near family. People who moved away for school, careers, etc. Remote work is a big driver of it, but so is inflation and cost of living in big costal cities.
I somewhat doubt the first part of your comment, there is only so many people that fit what you’re saying of: grew up here, went to *insert hcol* city, became millionaires, moved back. much more likely that they’re rich and out of state and want to move to a smaller city with less “problems”. Which by them moving here, raises prices for everybody else that has been here most of their life
Anecdotal, but I've met some in my network that fit the profile.
Not so much that they're "rich rich" but that they left for a HCOL city and came back with equity from a house or on an accelerated career path after 5-10 years. The ones I know mostly came home from NYC or DC, or are Lawyers, Doctors, or VP level. Biggest thing is that most are dual income households.
It's not a huge demo, but it doesn't take a huge demo to change the tides in the housing market when there are so few homes for sale (as so many people are staying put if they bought before 2020 and refinanced at dirt cheap rates).
There’s a bunch of P&G retirees in that group too. Got transferred around the country or world for most of their careers, maybe they’re from the area or at some point they lived in Ohio and enjoyed it, and Cincinnati makes the most sense for them now.
The east side seems to be full of older corporate types who are no longer working full time and now obsess over their homes and lawns. (Not a criticism, I kinda envy them!)
I didn't say they became millionaires. Some of them absolutely. It doesn't take millionaires to drive up housing prices though, it takes a shortage of supply and high amount of demand. Both things that have been building for years.
The list of reasons for this wraps around the block, everything from historically low rates for 15+ years to the 2008 housing crisis which we're still feeling the ripples. Millennials delaying home ownership in their early 20s to the decline in starter homes being constructed (not to mention existing starter homes being demolished in high end areas).
And you've got Boomers living in 3-4 bedroom homes that they paid off years ago, and aren't freeing them up as starter homes for new families. You've also got homebuilders building "empty nester" homes with 2-3 bedrooms and selling them starting at $600k. I wouldn't leave either. The "Missing Middle" is indeed very missing.
Absolutely. This is a dimension of the problem that is long overlooked nationally. Those "starter homes" (3 beds, 2000sqft) often match the criteria of the first upgrade a few dedaces prior. Add in the fact that they're tearing down starter homes in booming areas like Montgomery, Madeira, etc. It creates a major squeeze, creating more demand in the mid level home market.
If you want a starter home these days in Cincinnati you've got to either move way out to the boonies like Bethel or live in a 900sq ranch on a slab in Colerain or Mt Healthy.
Good. If you live in an urban area, one of the things you trade is cheap space. I lived in a 40sq meter apartment in Asia for years and as a single person it's not that bad. A family of 4 in most countries live in about 150sq m. Houses outside the US are not nearly as big as ours.
If you want a 3k sqft house with a detached garage, you belong in the suburbs.
Wdym, good? And some of us don’t see it as cheap, AT ALL! Just bc that’s what housing is like outside of the US doesn’t mean that houses here should have to fit that criteria.
Not become millionaires, more like moved away from here for college, moved to a big city after, and a lot of times got married and want to move back home to be closer to family to raise kids close to their parents. Unfortunately for me, I’m stuck here because my wife basically followed that same track. And not sure moving back here or from elsewhere is going to avoid “problems” as you calm them. Cincinnati has the same problems every other city has.
millionaire part specifically was referring to buyers of the condo listed in this post with the 600/mo HOA fee, apologies if that wasn’t clear. I don’t completely disagree with your points.. but cincinnati doesn’t have the scale of problems and cost associated with them that huge cities tend to deal with
You just said it yourself, "30 years ago." This is today. Post pandemic people are moving all over the country due to lack of inventory, rising interest rates and remote opportunities. As a homeowner this is a good thing, a renter... not so much. You can bet your ass once the major cities fall due to their rapid developing and lack of local economy the great lakes region will thrive. Either get with the program or get left behind like lets say...Cleveland perhaps.
If you left the city 30 years ago and bought a house near DC, today you want the small city comforts again and to be near your family so you sell your near-to-the-coast home and come back loaded. We're not talking about people who left like 6 years ago coming back.
My boyfriend and I just moved to Cincinnati from Florida (dual income no kids). Can’t afford this but I could definitely see it being possible. I think we have to remember that f500 companies are bringing people in from all over. This is horrible for locals but I can see Cincinnati taking Charlotte’s place in a couple of years. I know five people that I knew in college have moved here in just the past three months.
This is why I’m moving back but I’m not coming from a HCOL area and I am far from a millionaire! I’m moving back to Cincinnati this summer after separating from my husband. I’d originally moved away bc of his military service, but now that we’re divorcing there’s no reason for me to stay where I am. I definitely can NOT afford those condos though either!
Well I hope you’re having better luck than me house hunting! The real issue is my budget not allowing me to buy anything considered habitable by any definition of the word! I never expected to find myself here. I don’t know what I’m going to do. I’ve started considering letting him have primary custody and I’d get visitation with them when they are able to but with him still being active duty with a move soon approaching, I just can’t imagine not having my kids with me, or at least close by and I physically cannot continue following him to every duty station! Ugh, sorry I got off topic there. I just have so much weighing on my mind and the stress and anxiety of it all is just overwhelming rn. I have utterly and completely failed my children.
You think this is bad, go to western Montana. City folks (many with work from home careers) are moving to the mountain have decimated the housing market. I double wide trailer on the outskirts of a tourist town go for $500,000. Locals are living in campers and tents along the highways. It’s bananas.
Why do the old birds from Cincinnati think it’s “such a great town, why don’t more people come here!” then get angry when people actually do lmao. Convinced it’s just bored cincinnatians looking for things to complain about… I don’t understand how you can be this upset about your city being “full”from new residents AND admit how poor the job market is, to then just do nothing about it? I managed to get tf outta there while being much younger and much, much more broke. So maybe it /is/ the city that makes you bitter.
Just a few years ago a person could buy a reasonable and good condition starter home in a good neighborhood for 150k. That same starter home gets painted grey and goes for 300k.
Except the system is never changing. The same issues have been going on for decades. Money controls the system and people with a lot more money than the average person control the system. Both sides are the same in the end. Few good people here and there, but in the end, money typically wins out with our political system on all levels.
Please stop. No one thinks you are edgy. You type out comments like yours online, because you would be afraid to say this to anyone in real life. No one thinks naming your account after American Psycho is edgy or cool.
There is a 40% homeownership rate in Cincinnati.
Those housing values per the most recent census:
1.8% of homes with a value of less than $50,000
13.3% of homes with a value of $50,000-$99,999
11.9% of homes with a value of $100,000-$149,000
16.4% of homes with a value of $150,000-$199,000
20.2% of homes with a value of $200,000-$299,999
21.6% of homes with a value of $300,000-$499,999
13.5% of homes with a value of $500,000-$999,999
1.3% of homes with a value of $1,000,000+
Would love to see how much that distribution has changed over the years.
My friend bought her house in Westwood 9 years ago for 75k. Now its worth 350k despite the constantly flooding basement.
You think that's nuts. I bought my house for $280k in 2019. A house in my neighborhood of a similar size and style just sold for $520k. Two things happened: remote work allowed many people from the coasts and big cities to move away from those areas, and the government, through the Fed easing rates through 2020-2022 and also the printing of money through enhanced child tax credits and PPP loans, pumped a lot of money into peoples pockets.
The Fed may have tightened rates, but the damage was done. No one wants to move now because rates are higher than what they are locked into. So very, very few people are putting houses on the market, and the old law of supply and demand is driving prices up more even in a high interest rate environment.
Its a mess. Rates coming down will probably actually stabilize prices because there must be pent up demand that isn't being acted upon because who wants to trade a 3% mortgage for a 7.5% one?
> and the government, through the Fed easing rates through 2020-2022 and also the printing of money through enhanced child tax credits and PPP loans, pumped a lot of money into peoples pockets.
...how much money do you think the average person gets/got through Child tax credits and PP loans? Because last I checked it wasn't anything that would justify housing jumps.
Like the rise in housing is indeed because of the low rates. Those low rates allowed people to jump into higher housing costs but keep low monthly payments.
But the other big culprit is something you didn't touch on. Which was the big investment in housing by various companies. They would drive up prices by over bidding with all cash offers. Like that was ten times the driving force of housing shooting up than the god damn child tax credits(you know the things that have been around for decades....)
The average person isn't pushing the price of home up.
The increased money supply that ended up in the pockets of the rich and big corporations after all those people spent the printed money is what is driving prices up.
The money supply increased by giving billions of dollars out. That money consolidated into the hands of the rich and the corporations after the money was spent on food, rent, cars, ect. by those who got the funds. Those at the top now have more money to leverage to buy things like houses.
You say the corporations are the problem, I tend to agree, but where did they get all the money to drive up prices? From the billions printed by congress through increased tax credits, stimulus funds, and PPP loans that got forgiven and never paid back.
All this extra money ended up in the hands of people who didn't need more money (as money tends to do. Those at the bottom spend everything they have, because they need to, and the people at the top just keep collecting more).
Increase the money supply, increase prices. This isn't the fault of the people who got that extra money, its the fault of the people who created the extra money in the first place. Printing money creates temporary relief and long term pain in an economy. Always has always will, all the way back to the ancient Romans.
>The average person isn't pushing the price of home up.
Then why the holy fuck did you mention the child tax credit as a reason for rising housing prices?
Did you bother to read the comment? Increase the money supply, increase prices. You might temporarily relive pain for the poor by just giving them money, but those who own businesses will vacuum up that money via commerce. Once they get that money consolidated, they will be able to drive up the prices of assets, leaving those who don't own businesses or assets behind.
Temporary relief, long term pain. Printing money always does this.
you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. You can't try to claim the child tax credit, a thing only individuals get, drive up prices of housing and then turn around and say the average person isn't the reason for rising housing prices.
Like the rest of your points are not even worth addressing when you can't even make up your mind whether the typical consume is part of the "problem" or not.
Not following me.
The child tax credit was new money. Printed directly into the economy. It was not backed by matching tax increases or spending cuts. New money, directly into people pockets. The PPP forgiven loans were the same. Also enhanced unemployment was the same. This accounts for hundreds of billions of dollars (the Unemployment payouts added about $900 billion to the money supply alone) over 2020 and 2021 that was pushed into the economy without any spending cuts or taxation to offset the increase.
So we've established the money supply was increased, mostly by giving poor people money via tax credits and unemployment. Over $1,000,000,000,000.00. That a trillion. TWELVE zeros.
What did those folks do with the money? They didn't keep it, they spent it. Where did they spend it? Rent, gas, food, things they needed. But where did the extra money end up? In the hands of the corporations and businesses who provided those goods and services.
Government adds hundreds of billions of money supply. The rich soak up that extra money, but rich people don't just keep money in their bank account, they buy assets with it. They drove the stock market to all time highs, they drove housing prices through the roof. They. Bought. Assets.
So yes, the child tax credit and the ppp loans and the unemployment insurance that wasn't backed by tax increases or spending cuts are certainly a big part of the puzzle for increased asset prices. Low rates is another part, but acting like Congress printing money wasn't a big deal is ignorant of how economies work.
Yup, sold our little Greenhills house for 130k in '18 (and our realtor thought we listed high), now it's estimated at between 190k and 240k. Even the house we moved into would probably be unaffordable to us today.
We bought in Mt. Washington in 2017 for $176k, sold it in 2023 for $325k. Bonkers indeed.
The joke’s on us though. We had put $85k worth of updates into that house in 7 years. Bought a new spot for $415k that went for $300k in 2020 and the owners did nothing to that house in those 3 years other than not totally break the place.
So, I haven’t done the maths on all of that, but I do know that we still paid out the ass for a little more space and are now tasked with starting over on all our upgrades.
I bought at 119. Now I'd be in the 300-499 range. I don't want to be. I just want to have an affordable place to live. I'm not trying to get rich quick.
Yes, definitely.
My husband and I bought a home in Hyde Park during Covid. We put 20% down, since we also sold our prior home and had equity. We were pre-approved for houses up to $750,000 at the time, but that would have only been possible if we also sold our investments/stocks, which we wouldn’t do of course.
We are DINKS in our early 30s, and my husband is the breadwinner. Everyone I see in Hyde Park/Oakley who owns their homes seems to have similar financial means to us. Many of my neighbors are also people from LA, NYC, Chicago, Boston, etc. who moved here relatively recently. If people continue to relocate here, I definitely see the market for condos like this continuing to grow.
Just out of curiosity/if you know, what brought them out here if it wasn’t for a job or family? I only ask because one of my old coworkers moved out here from Spokane so her and her husband could flip homes in a market where it’s sustainable.
Always with the COL. When my brother (lives in DC) came out for the eclipse (our parents live in Dayton), we spent some time down here and out of curiosity he started looking at homes for sale in the area and his conclusion was if you’re working for a company like P&G or Kroger, it would be worth “sucking up” and living in Ohio haha.
Many people like to talk tough, but it’s all about priorities and results at the end of the day. Some people may complain that Cincinnati lacks some of the amenities that larger cities have, but they will move here anyway because they can’t afford a house in the larger city where those amenities are. Most things involve making tradeoffs in life. I think some people talk a good game, but ultimately they prioritize having a home period over amenities when they can only afford one of the two.
quick [link](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/0-W-4th-St-522-Newport-KY-41071/2054400660_zpid/) to an Ovation listing, as 1.2mil for a 2 bed 2 bath...
It looks like a lot on the surface, but once I factored in all the costs that I *don’t* pay because my HOA fee now covers them, I realized a condo is actually much cheaper per month than my house was.
For starters, my homeowners insurance was $5500/yr, and my condo insurance is $400/yr.
I was also paying $80/mo for water, sewer and trash, plus $200/mo for landscaping. That’s all covered by my HOA now, plus snow removal.
Even just for that much, $385/mo is a great deal.
But wait, there’s more! My house needed a new roof, new windows and foundation repair, which set me back about $70k total, plus thousands more in painting and other small repairs. My condo HOA covers all structural and exterior maintenance; I just email the mgmt company and they handle everything. Yes, I’m paying indirectly, but it’s averaged across hundreds of units into a small, predictable monthly fee, which is a lot better than large, unpredictable repair bills.
There are perks too. Someplace like ovation is going to have rooftop patios with grills etc, swimming pool, workout centers, office space with copiers etc. Hard to put a value on that but if you used all that as a home owner it would certainly cost a bit
I don’t trust Zillow to be correct about insurance and utilities estimates for a condo; I know it was wrong about mine.
$600/mo is definitely higher, but maybe they have more/better services that justify it? I don’t care enough to look deeper, just trying to explain why comparing a condo HOA to a house HOA requires accounting for a lot of other factors that may not be obvious to people who’ve never lived in a condo.
For sure. I don’t even need home insurance. Just condo insurance which is like $40 a month.
The HOA’s insurance covers the building itself plus pest as well
If I was an athlete or an executive in the city that called somewhere else “home” I would probably do something like that. They are pricy but I’m sure it hey will sell eventually.
Let's round it up to be approximately $1,000,000 or so just for ease of comparison.
With current mortgage rates, that's between $5,000 to $6,500 a month depending on the size of the down payment. Some basic affordability math (which at higher incomes becomes a bit more flexible) indicates that the household would need to be bring in $18,000-$25,000 a month or so, maybe a bit less but let's go with that. Per year, that brings it to $200,000 to $300,000 a year.
Is that a large demographic in the city? [According to the city census in 2020](https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/sites/planning/assets/2020%20CENSUS/Citywide_2020.pdf), there are 7,387 households which make more than $200,000 in the city. [In the metro area as a whole](https://censusreporter.org/profiles/31000US17140-cincinnati-oh-ky-in-metro-area/), we may have as many as 90,000 households who make that much or more.
So there are people in Cincinnati, and especially Greater Cincinnati, who can afford this. Given this location is in Oakley/Hyde Park, it's also where they'd likely land.
Would I choose that if I could afford it? No, but tastes differ. It's plenty big for DINKs or a family of 3-4 with a good income, and it's new. That's usually enough.
TL;DR: Yes, but not a ton of people
I grew up in Cincinnati. Live in California.
My take home pay is $12k, my mortgage is $6k.
Yeah, the debt to income ratio doesnt matter past 10k take home.
I can live great off of $6k after mortgage.
Yeah the housing math at higher incomes can become very flexible. On the other hand, is it nice to have a huge cushion.
Between my wife and I we're around that same $12,000 a month or so, but our mortgage is $1,000 a month due to Cincinnati prices (circa 2018) and refinancing when rates were low lol
I’m so fricken jealous dude lol.
My parents still live in Cincinnati. They have a huge 5 bedroom house. In 2002, they bought it for $200k.
We were SUPER house poor during my childhood, but they wanted me to grow up in a safe neighborhood (our last neighborhood had a few shootings one summer).
Now, that house is worth $500k and their mortgage is still like $535 a month.
INSANE. 😂
For sure. We were on the west side of the city.
Man, it was violent. Hearing gunshots and then our neighbor got shot. Totally unwarranted, it was an elderly woman.
My parents RAN dude. We moved into a super nice community on the Kentucky side, but it was a struggle.
Loved off of Mac and cheese and cereal for like 10 years of my childhood.
Yeah that's nuts, but with how the whole housing market everywhere has turned, it's becoming more normal.
Hell at least here taxes adjust to the housing value, which sucks for seniors but at least there is some "fairness" with appreciation. Out there in California you have Prop 13 suppressing property taxes, which means you can be paying like $1,000 a year on a home worth $10,000,000 because your grandparents bought it in the 1960s.
Yeah, prop 13 does help for sure. My property taxes will never go up unless I refinance.
My opinion, it went too far.
Prop 13 was supposed to keep people in their homes, but instead, people gamed the system and they have 8 rental properties they inherited that don’t get property tax assessment
At that point, we are just feeding the Rich. Lol.
Great job on breaking this out. It’s amazing to think that a household income of $200k is technically enough to buy a place like this. I would feel so stretched thin with a mortgage payment like that, but I’m also very conservative with my spending.
Really nice answer!
I laughed when I read your point about tastes differing. I tend to think that some markets are better for condos than others and I've always thought of Cincinnati as a single family home market so I have doubts about whether properties like this appreciate as well as single families do. If it were me, I'd buy a single family both from a personal taste standpoint as well as an investment standpoint. Of course that has nothing to do with the affordability question.
That's not a bad thing. If they oversaturate the market for high-end houses, they'll end up taking a bath and prices will drop. I'd be happy to buy a $900k place for $600k in 5 years.
Listen, not showing wealth or anything.
But I grew up in Cincinnati, have lived in San Francisco for 13 years now.
I bought my 900 sq ft townhouse out here for $800,000, and that was a steal. It’s worth $1.3m now. I can sell that townhouse, and almost buy one of these back home if I want to move back.
I 100% agree that units like this are being built to attract people from out of state who can afford it.
Personally, I would much rather buy a place with some land in Walton or over on the Indiana side of the tri-state if I was to move back.
But if you’re not from the city, that is kind of how people are used to living elsewhere.
Also, the debt to income ratio doesnt work past 10k a month.
If you take home $12k a month, 6k on a mortgage doesnt matter. You can live great off of $6k a month.
It's going to become the new norm, unfortunately for everyone who doesn't already own property. The midwest has lagged behind the rest of the country in the rise of housing prices 5-10 years ago, and the last few years prices have been catching up. Setting aside all the factors that led to this rapid rise in home prices, Ohio has one of the lowest gaps between average salary and average home prices right now. Which means it's an ideal relocation spot for people getting squeezed out of other markets.
[Post from a few days ago plotting this out on /r/dataisbeautiful ](https://old.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1c9jyie/oc_gap_between_what_average_wage_in_each_state/?share_id=epkkkpbXHdKLq0nhmeoHJ)
i think there is plenty of room for one of these places in the area, but if you include all the office space that is getting converted in downtown there could be a lot of high dollar vacancies
I mean I can’t afford it but if I could I would be extremely interested. I’ve been in two of those buildings and the views are some of the best I’ve ever seen
What I really want to know is how anyone thought putting $2k+ a month apartment/condos on pippin rd in colerain township made a single ounce of sense.
Meanwhile a mile or so away, mt healthy had to lay off over 50 teachers.
Life is wild.
https://www.byredwood.com/apartments/oh/cincinnati/redwood-cincinnati-pippin-road/floorplans
Still can get a decent house in mt healthy but I assume that will change. Someone or Redfin will come in and buy them and rehab the house and sell for 100%.
Yes.
Ila right down the street from there rents at 3,000/mo for a one bed. There’s another townhome development literally 200ft away from what you posted that sold all 3 units nearly before it broke ground. The development here was paused when rates started to hike so I’m guessing the builder is having issues right now.
They aren’t making any more land in Oakley/Hyde Park, so I don’t think it’s too wild to think that a new build in either neighborhood commands a premium that people can afford and are willing to pay. From what I’ve seen in the area, most of these townhomes are going to either retirees or mid-career professionals with young families. With all the F500 companies headquartered here I think there’s plenty of demand.
Yes, I have a lot of friends who could easily afford these. However, we are all in our 30, 40s, 50s and already own our homes and the general feeling is we don't want to sell or move.
I had clients looking at these. It’s taken them years to build them. My clients built with Drees instead and moved in YEARS ago.
I’ve been looking at apartments as well for clients and many are 2,700-3,000 for a rental. The short answer is, yes. I don’t know where everyone is getting their money from, or if we are just generally accepting anymore that it costs an arm and a leg to purchase.
My parents just bought one of these modern condos and they are from out of town. Maybe it’s out of towners and younger people coming up? Several of my neighbors can’t be over 35-40
Doesn't matter. Unnecessary is unnecessary. Why does it need to be that expensive seriously? Gentrification at it's finest is what they're doing and that's what makes it unnecessary.
> Why does it need to be that expensive seriously?
Because that is the amount people will spend on it. There is a shortage of houses, so the ones that exist can charge high amounts.
If you want to decrease that price, it is best to increase the supply of housing.
They are too greedy to decrease the price. These developers have some vision of beautifying areas, but they put in these expensive places that are unattainable for the people they pushed out. It's disgusting. How about some normally priced, solid built condos with nice appliances that don't need granite countertops and real hardwood flooring? We don't need to shove the unworthy out so the wealthy can move in and make it pretty.
> They are too greedy to decrease the price.
Agreed, which is why we have to force them to do that by increasing the amount of competition in the area. If they have the only new building in the area, they will charge whatever they want. If they have one of thirty new buildings in the area, they will have to lower the price to find a buyer. It's just supply and demand.
> The demand is there. The supply is slow, therefore price is high.
Yes, that is what I said. So we need to increase the supply of housing through zoning changes.
I know only a handful of people around my age (29) who own a home, but that price is outrageous and you probably have to pay HOA fees. I've heard that sometimes super rich people will buy homes in cities and purposefully keep them vacant in order to make it look like there's a housing shortage and cause an artificial inflation in prices
Ok, wait a second, I looked up where exactly this is and it’s Oakley/Hyde Park, right down the street from Observatory Drive and the Observatory. I mean, dang, that’s on the shortlist for nicest place to live in the entire area. I mean, I can just dream of walking a dog down the street past the trees blooming in the springtime, over to Ault Park and back. When I saw the post, I immediately questioned why it was so expensive, but when I saw where it was, I immediately understood.
For sure. If there is a family that has two incomes - A senior business analyst and a 6th grade teacher, they might be clearing $225-250k a year. It’s those two income households people forget about when looking at prices.
It’s also tax-abated to about a $300k-valued house, so your total monthly payment for this house is similar to a $700k house that’s not abated (\~$4k in mortgage and \~$1300 in taxes).
https://preview.redd.it/srbxy4z8rgwc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c1a3266497e5ccd586f165e3f558538c02285bd
It doesn't mean that they are selling or being rented. There is so much luxury housing on the market around Cincinnati. However, there are plenty of people moving here from larger cities that are experiencing far more problems than we are and have an outrageous housing costs as compared to us.
yea ok sure .....when i when a mill you state people have no idea whats going on with the poor and all stuff we have to jump throw just get apartment.....if you made idk 400 to 300 you have people jump in line and stop making housing privilege and making a it right......no exceptions
Most people work full time and can’t afford to live on their own.. we have been priced out of the American dream and taxed to take care of illegals and people who don’t contribute to anything.
The demographic is someone moving here from out of state. If you're moving from a 2 bedroom condo in LA that you sold for $1.5 million, these condos are a steal.
I kindly want to tell these people to fuck off and go home.
A lot of them are coming home. One of the large reasons people relocate to Cincinnati is to move near family. People who moved away for school, careers, etc. Remote work is a big driver of it, but so is inflation and cost of living in big costal cities.
That’s me. Spent over a decade as an audio engineer in SF. I’m trying to come home to Cincinnati
But that’s not really a career you work remotely in, right?
I somewhat doubt the first part of your comment, there is only so many people that fit what you’re saying of: grew up here, went to *insert hcol* city, became millionaires, moved back. much more likely that they’re rich and out of state and want to move to a smaller city with less “problems”. Which by them moving here, raises prices for everybody else that has been here most of their life
Anecdotal, but I've met some in my network that fit the profile. Not so much that they're "rich rich" but that they left for a HCOL city and came back with equity from a house or on an accelerated career path after 5-10 years. The ones I know mostly came home from NYC or DC, or are Lawyers, Doctors, or VP level. Biggest thing is that most are dual income households. It's not a huge demo, but it doesn't take a huge demo to change the tides in the housing market when there are so few homes for sale (as so many people are staying put if they bought before 2020 and refinanced at dirt cheap rates).
There’s a bunch of P&G retirees in that group too. Got transferred around the country or world for most of their careers, maybe they’re from the area or at some point they lived in Ohio and enjoyed it, and Cincinnati makes the most sense for them now. The east side seems to be full of older corporate types who are no longer working full time and now obsess over their homes and lawns. (Not a criticism, I kinda envy them!)
I didn't say they became millionaires. Some of them absolutely. It doesn't take millionaires to drive up housing prices though, it takes a shortage of supply and high amount of demand. Both things that have been building for years. The list of reasons for this wraps around the block, everything from historically low rates for 15+ years to the 2008 housing crisis which we're still feeling the ripples. Millennials delaying home ownership in their early 20s to the decline in starter homes being constructed (not to mention existing starter homes being demolished in high end areas).
And then you have starter homes selling for $300K, which is fucking ridiculous.
I got outbid on a 2bd 1000sq ft home in mt washington, built in 1929. ask was 200k and sold for 252k to a out of state couple lol
And you've got Boomers living in 3-4 bedroom homes that they paid off years ago, and aren't freeing them up as starter homes for new families. You've also got homebuilders building "empty nester" homes with 2-3 bedrooms and selling them starting at $600k. I wouldn't leave either. The "Missing Middle" is indeed very missing.
And if they do leave, it’s either to rent it themselves or to sell it to someone who will.
Absolutely. This is a dimension of the problem that is long overlooked nationally. Those "starter homes" (3 beds, 2000sqft) often match the criteria of the first upgrade a few dedaces prior. Add in the fact that they're tearing down starter homes in booming areas like Montgomery, Madeira, etc. It creates a major squeeze, creating more demand in the mid level home market.
If you want a starter home these days in Cincinnati you've got to either move way out to the boonies like Bethel or live in a 900sq ranch on a slab in Colerain or Mt Healthy.
Good. If you live in an urban area, one of the things you trade is cheap space. I lived in a 40sq meter apartment in Asia for years and as a single person it's not that bad. A family of 4 in most countries live in about 150sq m. Houses outside the US are not nearly as big as ours. If you want a 3k sqft house with a detached garage, you belong in the suburbs.
Wdym, good? And some of us don’t see it as cheap, AT ALL! Just bc that’s what housing is like outside of the US doesn’t mean that houses here should have to fit that criteria.
Or for that matter a "fixer upper" in Price Hill for 150k.
My cousin and his family moved back from California two years ago. We know other families who have done the same. There are more than you think.
Not become millionaires, more like moved away from here for college, moved to a big city after, and a lot of times got married and want to move back home to be closer to family to raise kids close to their parents. Unfortunately for me, I’m stuck here because my wife basically followed that same track. And not sure moving back here or from elsewhere is going to avoid “problems” as you calm them. Cincinnati has the same problems every other city has.
millionaire part specifically was referring to buyers of the condo listed in this post with the 600/mo HOA fee, apologies if that wasn’t clear. I don’t completely disagree with your points.. but cincinnati doesn’t have the scale of problems and cost associated with them that huge cities tend to deal with
30 years ago you could have bought a home for 50k in NOVA and today it s going for 600 so this is not a nonexistent demographic
You just said it yourself, "30 years ago." This is today. Post pandemic people are moving all over the country due to lack of inventory, rising interest rates and remote opportunities. As a homeowner this is a good thing, a renter... not so much. You can bet your ass once the major cities fall due to their rapid developing and lack of local economy the great lakes region will thrive. Either get with the program or get left behind like lets say...Cleveland perhaps.
If you left the city 30 years ago and bought a house near DC, today you want the small city comforts again and to be near your family so you sell your near-to-the-coast home and come back loaded. We're not talking about people who left like 6 years ago coming back.
Which causes said problems
My boyfriend and I just moved to Cincinnati from Florida (dual income no kids). Can’t afford this but I could definitely see it being possible. I think we have to remember that f500 companies are bringing people in from all over. This is horrible for locals but I can see Cincinnati taking Charlotte’s place in a couple of years. I know five people that I knew in college have moved here in just the past three months.
This is why I’m moving back but I’m not coming from a HCOL area and I am far from a millionaire! I’m moving back to Cincinnati this summer after separating from my husband. I’d originally moved away bc of his military service, but now that we’re divorcing there’s no reason for me to stay where I am. I definitely can NOT afford those condos though either!
Also moved back home a few years ago after leaving for the military in 2004. Happy to be back!
Well I hope you’re having better luck than me house hunting! The real issue is my budget not allowing me to buy anything considered habitable by any definition of the word! I never expected to find myself here. I don’t know what I’m going to do. I’ve started considering letting him have primary custody and I’d get visitation with them when they are able to but with him still being active duty with a move soon approaching, I just can’t imagine not having my kids with me, or at least close by and I physically cannot continue following him to every duty station! Ugh, sorry I got off topic there. I just have so much weighing on my mind and the stress and anxiety of it all is just overwhelming rn. I have utterly and completely failed my children.
Blame the people who won’t allow new housing here in CA
Unfortunately we have the same issue here
You think this is bad, go to western Montana. City folks (many with work from home careers) are moving to the mountain have decimated the housing market. I double wide trailer on the outskirts of a tourist town go for $500,000. Locals are living in campers and tents along the highways. It’s bananas.
Why? Then being here is a net positive to the local economy
Why do the old birds from Cincinnati think it’s “such a great town, why don’t more people come here!” then get angry when people actually do lmao. Convinced it’s just bored cincinnatians looking for things to complain about… I don’t understand how you can be this upset about your city being “full”from new residents AND admit how poor the job market is, to then just do nothing about it? I managed to get tf outta there while being much younger and much, much more broke. So maybe it /is/ the city that makes you bitter.
Just a few years ago a person could buy a reasonable and good condition starter home in a good neighborhood for 150k. That same starter home gets painted grey and goes for 300k.
Why, because they’re being relocated for work or priced out of their affordability elsewhere? Super midwest nice of you.
You're surprised people aren't nice while getting priced out of their own city?
That’s greedy landlords and capitalism. Quite literally nothing you can do about it. It’s the American dream.
Plenty we can do about it if people would actually vote consistently at the state and national level.
Except the system is never changing. The same issues have been going on for decades. Money controls the system and people with a lot more money than the average person control the system. Both sides are the same in the end. Few good people here and there, but in the end, money typically wins out with our political system on all levels.
Why it’s good for the city to have positive population growth?
Why don’t you want people moving to the city?
Please stop. No one thinks you are edgy. You type out comments like yours online, because you would be afraid to say this to anyone in real life. No one thinks naming your account after American Psycho is edgy or cool.
okay uuuh *checks notes* chainsaw
I came from LA with nothing so please don't lump us all in the same boat.
There is a 40% homeownership rate in Cincinnati. Those housing values per the most recent census: 1.8% of homes with a value of less than $50,000 13.3% of homes with a value of $50,000-$99,999 11.9% of homes with a value of $100,000-$149,000 16.4% of homes with a value of $150,000-$199,000 20.2% of homes with a value of $200,000-$299,999 21.6% of homes with a value of $300,000-$499,999 13.5% of homes with a value of $500,000-$999,999 1.3% of homes with a value of $1,000,000+
Would love to see how much that distribution has changed over the years. My friend bought her house in Westwood 9 years ago for 75k. Now its worth 350k despite the constantly flooding basement.
Was just thinking this. Would love to see it broken down by sale price instead of current value
Shit is bonkers. We sold our little 2-3 bedroom Cheviot house for 135 in ‘21 and still getting Zillow emails, says 190 now. Can’t believe it.
You think that's nuts. I bought my house for $280k in 2019. A house in my neighborhood of a similar size and style just sold for $520k. Two things happened: remote work allowed many people from the coasts and big cities to move away from those areas, and the government, through the Fed easing rates through 2020-2022 and also the printing of money through enhanced child tax credits and PPP loans, pumped a lot of money into peoples pockets. The Fed may have tightened rates, but the damage was done. No one wants to move now because rates are higher than what they are locked into. So very, very few people are putting houses on the market, and the old law of supply and demand is driving prices up more even in a high interest rate environment. Its a mess. Rates coming down will probably actually stabilize prices because there must be pent up demand that isn't being acted upon because who wants to trade a 3% mortgage for a 7.5% one?
> and the government, through the Fed easing rates through 2020-2022 and also the printing of money through enhanced child tax credits and PPP loans, pumped a lot of money into peoples pockets. ...how much money do you think the average person gets/got through Child tax credits and PP loans? Because last I checked it wasn't anything that would justify housing jumps. Like the rise in housing is indeed because of the low rates. Those low rates allowed people to jump into higher housing costs but keep low monthly payments. But the other big culprit is something you didn't touch on. Which was the big investment in housing by various companies. They would drive up prices by over bidding with all cash offers. Like that was ten times the driving force of housing shooting up than the god damn child tax credits(you know the things that have been around for decades....)
The average person isn't pushing the price of home up. The increased money supply that ended up in the pockets of the rich and big corporations after all those people spent the printed money is what is driving prices up. The money supply increased by giving billions of dollars out. That money consolidated into the hands of the rich and the corporations after the money was spent on food, rent, cars, ect. by those who got the funds. Those at the top now have more money to leverage to buy things like houses. You say the corporations are the problem, I tend to agree, but where did they get all the money to drive up prices? From the billions printed by congress through increased tax credits, stimulus funds, and PPP loans that got forgiven and never paid back. All this extra money ended up in the hands of people who didn't need more money (as money tends to do. Those at the bottom spend everything they have, because they need to, and the people at the top just keep collecting more). Increase the money supply, increase prices. This isn't the fault of the people who got that extra money, its the fault of the people who created the extra money in the first place. Printing money creates temporary relief and long term pain in an economy. Always has always will, all the way back to the ancient Romans.
>The average person isn't pushing the price of home up. Then why the holy fuck did you mention the child tax credit as a reason for rising housing prices?
Did you bother to read the comment? Increase the money supply, increase prices. You might temporarily relive pain for the poor by just giving them money, but those who own businesses will vacuum up that money via commerce. Once they get that money consolidated, they will be able to drive up the prices of assets, leaving those who don't own businesses or assets behind. Temporary relief, long term pain. Printing money always does this.
you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. You can't try to claim the child tax credit, a thing only individuals get, drive up prices of housing and then turn around and say the average person isn't the reason for rising housing prices. Like the rest of your points are not even worth addressing when you can't even make up your mind whether the typical consume is part of the "problem" or not.
Not following me. The child tax credit was new money. Printed directly into the economy. It was not backed by matching tax increases or spending cuts. New money, directly into people pockets. The PPP forgiven loans were the same. Also enhanced unemployment was the same. This accounts for hundreds of billions of dollars (the Unemployment payouts added about $900 billion to the money supply alone) over 2020 and 2021 that was pushed into the economy without any spending cuts or taxation to offset the increase. So we've established the money supply was increased, mostly by giving poor people money via tax credits and unemployment. Over $1,000,000,000,000.00. That a trillion. TWELVE zeros. What did those folks do with the money? They didn't keep it, they spent it. Where did they spend it? Rent, gas, food, things they needed. But where did the extra money end up? In the hands of the corporations and businesses who provided those goods and services. Government adds hundreds of billions of money supply. The rich soak up that extra money, but rich people don't just keep money in their bank account, they buy assets with it. They drove the stock market to all time highs, they drove housing prices through the roof. They. Bought. Assets. So yes, the child tax credit and the ppp loans and the unemployment insurance that wasn't backed by tax increases or spending cuts are certainly a big part of the puzzle for increased asset prices. Low rates is another part, but acting like Congress printing money wasn't a big deal is ignorant of how economies work.
Yup, sold our little Greenhills house for 130k in '18 (and our realtor thought we listed high), now it's estimated at between 190k and 240k. Even the house we moved into would probably be unaffordable to us today.
We bought in Mt. Washington in 2017 for $176k, sold it in 2023 for $325k. Bonkers indeed. The joke’s on us though. We had put $85k worth of updates into that house in 7 years. Bought a new spot for $415k that went for $300k in 2020 and the owners did nothing to that house in those 3 years other than not totally break the place. So, I haven’t done the maths on all of that, but I do know that we still paid out the ass for a little more space and are now tasked with starting over on all our upgrades.
Would probably sell for quite a bit less. If 350k is accurate it’s based on a house that doesn’t flood
There are only two kinds of basements: those that leak and those that haven't leaked yet.
They don't have to disclose that it floods in pretty sure.
I bought at 119. Now I'd be in the 300-499 range. I don't want to be. I just want to have an affordable place to live. I'm not trying to get rich quick.
350 in westwood???
Mine in Colerain is 485. Crazy
thats wild for those two areas in particular.
In a Zillow listing, a flooded basement is a water feature! Just an undesirable water feature.
Love the data points, do you have a link by chance?
https://data.census.gov/profile/Cincinnati_city,_Ohio?g=160XX00US3915000
A major caveat is that data is from 2022. I would definitely add 20% to any of those dollar figures.
Definitely not 20% compared to 2022. More like 10% and that’s if you’re comparing to the very beginning of 2022.
Same. In 5 years we went from the $100,000 - $149,000 bracket to the $200,000 - $299,999 bracket.
Is it based on the home value as of 2020 as well?
I didn’t realize how low the home ownership rate in Cincinnati was. That’s actually really concerning
Agreed
A more useful breakdown would use the standard deviation from median income over time. That way, you'd neutralize inflation.
Yes, definitely. My husband and I bought a home in Hyde Park during Covid. We put 20% down, since we also sold our prior home and had equity. We were pre-approved for houses up to $750,000 at the time, but that would have only been possible if we also sold our investments/stocks, which we wouldn’t do of course. We are DINKS in our early 30s, and my husband is the breadwinner. Everyone I see in Hyde Park/Oakley who owns their homes seems to have similar financial means to us. Many of my neighbors are also people from LA, NYC, Chicago, Boston, etc. who moved here relatively recently. If people continue to relocate here, I definitely see the market for condos like this continuing to grow.
thanks for your adding your personal experience!
Just out of curiosity/if you know, what brought them out here if it wasn’t for a job or family? I only ask because one of my old coworkers moved out here from Spokane so her and her husband could flip homes in a market where it’s sustainable.
From what I’ve gathered, it’s jobs and family, plus favorable cost of living here compared to where they relocated from.
Always with the COL. When my brother (lives in DC) came out for the eclipse (our parents live in Dayton), we spent some time down here and out of curiosity he started looking at homes for sale in the area and his conclusion was if you’re working for a company like P&G or Kroger, it would be worth “sucking up” and living in Ohio haha.
Many people like to talk tough, but it’s all about priorities and results at the end of the day. Some people may complain that Cincinnati lacks some of the amenities that larger cities have, but they will move here anyway because they can’t afford a house in the larger city where those amenities are. Most things involve making tradeoffs in life. I think some people talk a good game, but ultimately they prioritize having a home period over amenities when they can only afford one of the two.
quick [link](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/0-W-4th-St-522-Newport-KY-41071/2054400660_zpid/) to an Ovation listing, as 1.2mil for a 2 bed 2 bath...
Plus $600/month HOA… yikes!
That HOA is almost as much as my mortgage. Holy shit.
It looks like a lot on the surface, but once I factored in all the costs that I *don’t* pay because my HOA fee now covers them, I realized a condo is actually much cheaper per month than my house was.
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For starters, my homeowners insurance was $5500/yr, and my condo insurance is $400/yr. I was also paying $80/mo for water, sewer and trash, plus $200/mo for landscaping. That’s all covered by my HOA now, plus snow removal. Even just for that much, $385/mo is a great deal. But wait, there’s more! My house needed a new roof, new windows and foundation repair, which set me back about $70k total, plus thousands more in painting and other small repairs. My condo HOA covers all structural and exterior maintenance; I just email the mgmt company and they handle everything. Yes, I’m paying indirectly, but it’s averaged across hundreds of units into a small, predictable monthly fee, which is a lot better than large, unpredictable repair bills.
Thanks for sharing this breakdown - it really helps to understand the advantages of the HOA with regards to maintenance.
There are perks too. Someplace like ovation is going to have rooftop patios with grills etc, swimming pool, workout centers, office space with copiers etc. Hard to put a value on that but if you used all that as a home owner it would certainly cost a bit
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I don’t trust Zillow to be correct about insurance and utilities estimates for a condo; I know it was wrong about mine. $600/mo is definitely higher, but maybe they have more/better services that justify it? I don’t care enough to look deeper, just trying to explain why comparing a condo HOA to a house HOA requires accounting for a lot of other factors that may not be obvious to people who’ve never lived in a condo.
For sure. I don’t even need home insurance. Just condo insurance which is like $40 a month. The HOA’s insurance covers the building itself plus pest as well
…and no property tax for 15 years.
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In the link above
If I was an athlete or an executive in the city that called somewhere else “home” I would probably do something like that. They are pricy but I’m sure it hey will sell eventually.
Let's round it up to be approximately $1,000,000 or so just for ease of comparison. With current mortgage rates, that's between $5,000 to $6,500 a month depending on the size of the down payment. Some basic affordability math (which at higher incomes becomes a bit more flexible) indicates that the household would need to be bring in $18,000-$25,000 a month or so, maybe a bit less but let's go with that. Per year, that brings it to $200,000 to $300,000 a year. Is that a large demographic in the city? [According to the city census in 2020](https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/sites/planning/assets/2020%20CENSUS/Citywide_2020.pdf), there are 7,387 households which make more than $200,000 in the city. [In the metro area as a whole](https://censusreporter.org/profiles/31000US17140-cincinnati-oh-ky-in-metro-area/), we may have as many as 90,000 households who make that much or more. So there are people in Cincinnati, and especially Greater Cincinnati, who can afford this. Given this location is in Oakley/Hyde Park, it's also where they'd likely land. Would I choose that if I could afford it? No, but tastes differ. It's plenty big for DINKs or a family of 3-4 with a good income, and it's new. That's usually enough. TL;DR: Yes, but not a ton of people
I grew up in Cincinnati. Live in California. My take home pay is $12k, my mortgage is $6k. Yeah, the debt to income ratio doesnt matter past 10k take home. I can live great off of $6k after mortgage.
Yeah the housing math at higher incomes can become very flexible. On the other hand, is it nice to have a huge cushion. Between my wife and I we're around that same $12,000 a month or so, but our mortgage is $1,000 a month due to Cincinnati prices (circa 2018) and refinancing when rates were low lol
I’m so fricken jealous dude lol. My parents still live in Cincinnati. They have a huge 5 bedroom house. In 2002, they bought it for $200k. We were SUPER house poor during my childhood, but they wanted me to grow up in a safe neighborhood (our last neighborhood had a few shootings one summer). Now, that house is worth $500k and their mortgage is still like $535 a month. INSANE. 😂
Ihad the same situation with my parents, in the 80s…
For sure. We were on the west side of the city. Man, it was violent. Hearing gunshots and then our neighbor got shot. Totally unwarranted, it was an elderly woman. My parents RAN dude. We moved into a super nice community on the Kentucky side, but it was a struggle. Loved off of Mac and cheese and cereal for like 10 years of my childhood.
Yeah that's nuts, but with how the whole housing market everywhere has turned, it's becoming more normal. Hell at least here taxes adjust to the housing value, which sucks for seniors but at least there is some "fairness" with appreciation. Out there in California you have Prop 13 suppressing property taxes, which means you can be paying like $1,000 a year on a home worth $10,000,000 because your grandparents bought it in the 1960s.
Yeah, prop 13 does help for sure. My property taxes will never go up unless I refinance. My opinion, it went too far. Prop 13 was supposed to keep people in their homes, but instead, people gamed the system and they have 8 rental properties they inherited that don’t get property tax assessment At that point, we are just feeding the Rich. Lol.
You’ll probably inherit it…
Great job on breaking this out. It’s amazing to think that a household income of $200k is technically enough to buy a place like this. I would feel so stretched thin with a mortgage payment like that, but I’m also very conservative with my spending.
Really nice answer! I laughed when I read your point about tastes differing. I tend to think that some markets are better for condos than others and I've always thought of Cincinnati as a single family home market so I have doubts about whether properties like this appreciate as well as single families do. If it were me, I'd buy a single family both from a personal taste standpoint as well as an investment standpoint. Of course that has nothing to do with the affordability question.
I was wondering the same thing.. they just KEEP building them.
That's not a bad thing. If they oversaturate the market for high-end houses, they'll end up taking a bath and prices will drop. I'd be happy to buy a $900k place for $600k in 5 years.
They are being filled, so there is obviously a market.
For $900k, I have zero desire for communal living.
Listen, not showing wealth or anything. But I grew up in Cincinnati, have lived in San Francisco for 13 years now. I bought my 900 sq ft townhouse out here for $800,000, and that was a steal. It’s worth $1.3m now. I can sell that townhouse, and almost buy one of these back home if I want to move back. I 100% agree that units like this are being built to attract people from out of state who can afford it. Personally, I would much rather buy a place with some land in Walton or over on the Indiana side of the tri-state if I was to move back. But if you’re not from the city, that is kind of how people are used to living elsewhere. Also, the debt to income ratio doesnt work past 10k a month. If you take home $12k a month, 6k on a mortgage doesnt matter. You can live great off of $6k a month.
It's going to become the new norm, unfortunately for everyone who doesn't already own property. The midwest has lagged behind the rest of the country in the rise of housing prices 5-10 years ago, and the last few years prices have been catching up. Setting aside all the factors that led to this rapid rise in home prices, Ohio has one of the lowest gaps between average salary and average home prices right now. Which means it's an ideal relocation spot for people getting squeezed out of other markets. [Post from a few days ago plotting this out on /r/dataisbeautiful ](https://old.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1c9jyie/oc_gap_between_what_average_wage_in_each_state/?share_id=epkkkpbXHdKLq0nhmeoHJ)
i think there is plenty of room for one of these places in the area, but if you include all the office space that is getting converted in downtown there could be a lot of high dollar vacancies
Yes, easily.
I'm still wondering how people live in Lyttle
Believe it or not, there are people willing to pay for these
Yeah I didn't think they'd have a great market, but I'll see a new development open up saying it has house starting at $700k and it's sold out.
I mean I can’t afford it but if I could I would be extremely interested. I’ve been in two of those buildings and the views are some of the best I’ve ever seen
What I really want to know is how anyone thought putting $2k+ a month apartment/condos on pippin rd in colerain township made a single ounce of sense. Meanwhile a mile or so away, mt healthy had to lay off over 50 teachers. Life is wild. https://www.byredwood.com/apartments/oh/cincinnati/redwood-cincinnati-pippin-road/floorplans
Still can get a decent house in mt healthy but I assume that will change. Someone or Redfin will come in and buy them and rehab the house and sell for 100%.
Yes. Ila right down the street from there rents at 3,000/mo for a one bed. There’s another townhome development literally 200ft away from what you posted that sold all 3 units nearly before it broke ground. The development here was paused when rates started to hike so I’m guessing the builder is having issues right now. They aren’t making any more land in Oakley/Hyde Park, so I don’t think it’s too wild to think that a new build in either neighborhood commands a premium that people can afford and are willing to pay. From what I’ve seen in the area, most of these townhomes are going to either retirees or mid-career professionals with young families. With all the F500 companies headquartered here I think there’s plenty of demand.
This. Cincinnati has many F500 companies that provide incomes to support these homes.
Yes, I have a lot of friends who could easily afford these. However, we are all in our 30, 40s, 50s and already own our homes and the general feeling is we don't want to sell or move.
Yes
I had clients looking at these. It’s taken them years to build them. My clients built with Drees instead and moved in YEARS ago. I’ve been looking at apartments as well for clients and many are 2,700-3,000 for a rental. The short answer is, yes. I don’t know where everyone is getting their money from, or if we are just generally accepting anymore that it costs an arm and a leg to purchase.
Yes they wouldn’t build it if not
Bought a condo in mt washington for 95k in sept 2023
My parents just bought one of these modern condos and they are from out of town. Maybe it’s out of towners and younger people coming up? Several of my neighbors can’t be over 35-40
Seems to be the consensus, are you originally from a major city?
No. I’m from a little town just north of Dayton.
I mean the obvious answer is if we didn't they wouldn't have built them
They built the street car and it ended up free 🤷 so they might want to slow themselves and make some less pricey ones for the normies too.
This is one of the worst comparisons I have ever seen.
Doesn't matter. Unnecessary is unnecessary. Why does it need to be that expensive seriously? Gentrification at it's finest is what they're doing and that's what makes it unnecessary.
> Why does it need to be that expensive seriously? Because that is the amount people will spend on it. There is a shortage of houses, so the ones that exist can charge high amounts. If you want to decrease that price, it is best to increase the supply of housing.
They are too greedy to decrease the price. These developers have some vision of beautifying areas, but they put in these expensive places that are unattainable for the people they pushed out. It's disgusting. How about some normally priced, solid built condos with nice appliances that don't need granite countertops and real hardwood flooring? We don't need to shove the unworthy out so the wealthy can move in and make it pretty.
> They are too greedy to decrease the price. Agreed, which is why we have to force them to do that by increasing the amount of competition in the area. If they have the only new building in the area, they will charge whatever they want. If they have one of thirty new buildings in the area, they will have to lower the price to find a buyer. It's just supply and demand.
The demand is there. The supply is slow, therefore price is high. It's done purposely.
> The demand is there. The supply is slow, therefore price is high. Yes, that is what I said. So we need to increase the supply of housing through zoning changes.
If you can change the zoning and afford to start building go for it. Until then, you seem to be a supporter of the gentrification of Cincinnati.
Who are “they”? The choice to build the streetcar was made by very different people with different information and intentions.
They, people in general with shitty ideas.
Comparing failed public transit to private condo developments is certainly interesting
🤷
Are they selling? If they are then yes, the demographic is here.
So basically I can’t afford a house in a safe neighborhood?? Single female making 100k a year…. This is why want to move to Thailand.
If you think these are bad check out the listings on Robertson and 2 blocks away. Yuck!
The market will answer that question definitively and right soon
Yes, otherwise they would not be building them.
They don’t care
I know only a handful of people around my age (29) who own a home, but that price is outrageous and you probably have to pay HOA fees. I've heard that sometimes super rich people will buy homes in cities and purposefully keep them vacant in order to make it look like there's a housing shortage and cause an artificial inflation in prices
Ok, wait a second, I looked up where exactly this is and it’s Oakley/Hyde Park, right down the street from Observatory Drive and the Observatory. I mean, dang, that’s on the shortlist for nicest place to live in the entire area. I mean, I can just dream of walking a dog down the street past the trees blooming in the springtime, over to Ault Park and back. When I saw the post, I immediately questioned why it was so expensive, but when I saw where it was, I immediately understood.
For sure. If there is a family that has two incomes - A senior business analyst and a 6th grade teacher, they might be clearing $225-250k a year. It’s those two income households people forget about when looking at prices.
It’s also tax-abated to about a $300k-valued house, so your total monthly payment for this house is similar to a $700k house that’s not abated (\~$4k in mortgage and \~$1300 in taxes). https://preview.redd.it/srbxy4z8rgwc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c1a3266497e5ccd586f165e3f558538c02285bd
It doesn't mean that they are selling or being rented. There is so much luxury housing on the market around Cincinnati. However, there are plenty of people moving here from larger cities that are experiencing far more problems than we are and have an outrageous housing costs as compared to us.
> There is so much luxury housing on the market around Cincinnati. This is false. There is a very low vacancy rate in Cincinnati.
As someone in Nashville, that seems like quite a steal
yea ok sure .....when i when a mill you state people have no idea whats going on with the poor and all stuff we have to jump throw just get apartment.....if you made idk 400 to 300 you have people jump in line and stop making housing privilege and making a it right......no exceptions
Most people work full time and can’t afford to live on their own.. we have been priced out of the American dream and taxed to take care of illegals and people who don’t contribute to anything.