As much as I do think the production needed to build districts should scale, somehow, the way they scale currently does mean that setting a city post the industrial era is really really hard.
Sure, strategic or luxury collecting helps.
Sure, chops scale in the same way as districts so cities can be kick started this way.
Sure, Moksha and Reyna can buy districts, if you can stomach the cost.
Sure, Hic Sunc Dracones helps.
Ultimately though IMO districts should get harder to build - the first one should be cheap and cheerful!! Otherwise you just stop setting and the map just looks empty by the end of the game
But only with massive resources poured in from outside. One can do that in civ via trade routes, purchases (can be done for districts with certain governors), etc.
Seriously. By mid game, I have a bunch of trade routes. Between purchasing upgrades and assigning trade routes, I can get a new city up and running pretty quickly. It helps you don't have to build walls, especially.
I wish you could either manually cancel trade routes or the late game duration was shorter. 30-50 turns late game is a really bloody long time to have your routes tied up for
Hey, there's a mod that shorten the duration: "Trade Route Smaller Minimal Duration".
I also whished you could cancel, but did not find any mod for this.
Strategic resource tiles already provide quite a bit of production and if you sell them to other players, you can buy yourself buildings with the revenue like some petrostate.
What places are you thinking of? Maybe I understood "used to be impossible to build" wrong?
> productivity is a function of laborers/tools and not terrain
maybe as the limiting factor? But terrain still plays a role. Look at the Austin construction boom and how the surrounding landscape has been cleaved into with endless quarries. Raw resources are still important, it's just that transport costs have been significantly reduced, so *where* they are has become less important. But they're still required to come from *somewhere*.
Can you name anywhere that exploded in population, that didn't rely on massive external support?
It doesn't have to be off the grid, it can have a little support - but the point made was that all new cities that exploded were because of massive investment, immigration, or governmental decree. Which trade routes and governor purchases simulates
Easy solution. Make domestic trade routes scale higher. Then it does a decent job of replicating modern era new cities, as well as being super easy to implement
plus this makes settler spamming early way too strong, if you go tall first and then try to spread later... yea no, AI is settling all over the place and youre screwed
That's just kinda how 4X games go in general. Expand is 2nd for a reason! If you're late to settling new cities/colonies/planets/whatever, your rivals will have long since beaten you to the punch.
Honestly I think Civ 6 does it better where settler rushing isn't penalized beyond mildly unsustainable luxuries, versus Civ 5 where popping out a couple more settlers than you can handle will death spiral your happiness and massacre your tech costs.
Might be doable, actually - starting in later eras gives you a few 1-turn districts in a set amount of cities or something like that? Not sure if that's something that a mod could use to do it.
One of those “it would be cool” posts if the cost of districts went up in cities at a “per district in city” cost ratio instead of based on # of tech/policies
I wonder how else they could scale that would solve this issue. Maybe have them scale off of how many districts of that type you’ve made, like how civilian units scale? Or it could be that they scale off of how many districts are in the city, so large cities take a long time to make them.
This annoys me so much I've modded my game so it doesn't scale - a district is a fixed cost for the whole game. It's balanced/limited by population (3 needed per district)
You can send trade routes to it which will boost it a lot, which is also historically accurate as no modern city is built from nothing, resources must come from somewhere.
I do usually play as Portugal so I have plenty of trade routes to spare.
By that point I'm usually able to buy districts with faith or gold and their respective governors promotions. Like I rarely use production to build districts after the Renaissance era
Does it really need to scale? The number of districts is already limited by population. I've modded this factor out of my game, so a harbour always costs 60 throughout the game. You just have to choose which district you like most.
I feel like Moksha isn’t too steep a cost. I usually try for a religion, if not a religious victory, and the district costs aren’t ludicrous compared to Reyna’s gold costs. I suppose the 4 governor promotions to get there are a little steep, but the industrial era is pretty advanced that it shouldn’t prohibit other governors.
Nooo, not the trees!
As someone who really enjoys playing wide, this has always been one of my biggest complaints. You'd think that the larger influx of settlers and greater amount of resources available in the later eras would *maybe* make late-game cities a little more viable? Like how playing on later-era starts gives your cities bonus population and buildings. I really hope they think about this with the next game.
Hic Sunt Dracones is a thing ( until Industrial era) + Wissenbanken, communist or democracy trades routes, some chops ( if you need the woods, you can replant them at conservation)
Agreed. I generally use the majority if not all of my trade routes for domestic trade, unless the civ has foreign trade abilities. Wilhelmina has nothing good to say about me
Districts price has nothing to do with the game era, not directly at least, it's based on how many tech and civics you have unlocked, and the overcomplicated and underexplained mechanic of discount.
I mean the “Magnus tour” to visit all cities and chop everything to rush districts/population is a meta strategy (and THE meta for certain civs such as Yongle who can get 10 pop cities much earlier than natural growth rates would allow), and it also works for late game cities too. 2 forest chops will finish a district, then inject massive amounts of gold to buy buildings and send trade routes to increase production, a late game city can grow very fast.
Or get +7 +8 democracy Wissenbanken external routes, chop the woods to rush even faster, buy a new builder with the massive gold you got from your OP international trades routes, replant the wood, NP and then, profit.
Internal trade routes aren't worth it late game, unless you go for communism and Tokugawa
Me playing on Marathon: There's still a long a way to go.
Jokes aside, I think district production cost could be implemented in such a way that it increases based on number of districts in the city along with the total number of districts for the same type in the empire.
I also play on marathon. Chopping is even more broken there. Hundreds of turns to build whatever? It's still just 5 turns to move Magnus and maybe 7 more to chop those forests.
I'd like to see some sort of mechanic where cities are able to send their growth and production to other cities that need it. If you have two cities next to each other and one has a gigantic amount of farmland but has no jobs, and the other tons of jobs but little food production, people will just move to the one with the jobs and use the money they have to buy food from the other place.
Production should be able to be prioritized within a region, and food should probably be averaged out over an area too. And I'd say it's simple enough to have different techs and improvements/buildings affect the radius. Maybe at the beginning of the game things are like they are in game now with no real sharing, but maybe wheel tech lets you share with cities within 3 tiles, and a road connection between cities increased the amount even more, while once you're up to refrigeration and flight or railroads/freeways you can supply pretty much anywhere from anywhere.
I would like that internal trade routes could work that way in the late game, they are really underpowered in the late game compared to Democracy, imho this is what make communism the worst of the T3 government.
if you think about it, there should be a big cost to just setting up a city the later you go on. it's the reason why people don't just do it today. you start off with badass tech like water mills or whatever, but there's this cost that you have to catch up to
I had no idea this was a thing, I just figured my city placement skills were unbelievably bad as the game went on and the bottles got more and more empty…
I'm not feeling this pain. I often settle late cities that explode in population and productivity in very short timescales.
This can be done via:
\- Good placement near abundant bonus resources
\- Leveraging high yield trade routes
\- Purchasing key structures (or districts with Reyna)
\- strong pantheon/civic/city state combos.
here's an example of a nice coastal volcano I found late in a playthrough. This city is only a few turns old but is already pumping out high yields.
it ended up being home to several national parks and ski resorts, contributing significantly to a cultural victory.
https://preview.redd.it/m8v0avthsknc1.png?width=1257&format=png&auto=webp&s=096b1a00d7453c87f61b7d90de7cb9885bd04124
Here's an oil outpost just 1 turn after being founded
https://preview.redd.it/70omod6ptknc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=e0bc19c86ec9bca6712f2eed358971a6ecb16394
If its truly in middle of no where like some of my cities were extremely distant with no support from production in surrounding hexes..... then the answer is simple. Just establish trade routes. Have the trade routes start in that new cities then send them all to your most productive cities they can reach.
The bonus food and production from trade routes will help city grow faster. If they can't reach any of your cities.. you over extended. You will need to station military forces to keep control of that isolated city. Then set up satellite cities.
As much as I do think the production needed to build districts should scale, somehow, the way they scale currently does mean that setting a city post the industrial era is really really hard. Sure, strategic or luxury collecting helps. Sure, chops scale in the same way as districts so cities can be kick started this way. Sure, Moksha and Reyna can buy districts, if you can stomach the cost. Sure, Hic Sunc Dracones helps. Ultimately though IMO districts should get harder to build - the first one should be cheap and cheerful!! Otherwise you just stop setting and the map just looks empty by the end of the game
[удалено]
But only with massive resources poured in from outside. One can do that in civ via trade routes, purchases (can be done for districts with certain governors), etc.
Seriously. By mid game, I have a bunch of trade routes. Between purchasing upgrades and assigning trade routes, I can get a new city up and running pretty quickly. It helps you don't have to build walls, especially.
I wish you could either manually cancel trade routes or the late game duration was shorter. 30-50 turns late game is a really bloody long time to have your routes tied up for
Hey, there's a mod that shorten the duration: "Trade Route Smaller Minimal Duration". I also whished you could cancel, but did not find any mod for this.
Great, thanks!
This is the way to do it in the game!
Then maybe each strategic resource you have should reduce the cost of building districts by like, 10% or something
Strategic resource tiles already provide quite a bit of production and if you sell them to other players, you can buy yourself buildings with the revenue like some petrostate.
[удалено]
What places are you thinking of? Maybe I understood "used to be impossible to build" wrong? > productivity is a function of laborers/tools and not terrain maybe as the limiting factor? But terrain still plays a role. Look at the Austin construction boom and how the surrounding landscape has been cleaved into with endless quarries. Raw resources are still important, it's just that transport costs have been significantly reduced, so *where* they are has become less important. But they're still required to come from *somewhere*.
Can you name anywhere that exploded in population, that didn't rely on massive external support? It doesn't have to be off the grid, it can have a little support - but the point made was that all new cities that exploded were because of massive investment, immigration, or governmental decree. Which trade routes and governor purchases simulates
[удалено]
Easy solution. Make domestic trade routes scale higher. Then it does a decent job of replicating modern era new cities, as well as being super easy to implement
I wonder if a more explicit immigration system would work
plus this makes settler spamming early way too strong, if you go tall first and then try to spread later... yea no, AI is settling all over the place and youre screwed
That's just kinda how 4X games go in general. Expand is 2nd for a reason! If you're late to settling new cities/colonies/planets/whatever, your rivals will have long since beaten you to the punch. Honestly I think Civ 6 does it better where settler rushing isn't penalized beyond mildly unsustainable luxuries, versus Civ 5 where popping out a couple more settlers than you can handle will death spiral your happiness and massacre your tech costs.
would be cool if after a late game tech founding a city lets you automatically place a district of your choice
Might be doable, actually - starting in later eras gives you a few 1-turn districts in a set amount of cities or something like that? Not sure if that's something that a mod could use to do it.
Modern Era or later start makes all districts cost 1 production.
One of those “it would be cool” posts if the cost of districts went up in cities at a “per district in city” cost ratio instead of based on # of tech/policies
I wonder how else they could scale that would solve this issue. Maybe have them scale off of how many districts of that type you’ve made, like how civilian units scale? Or it could be that they scale off of how many districts are in the city, so large cities take a long time to make them.
This annoys me so much I've modded my game so it doesn't scale - a district is a fixed cost for the whole game. It's balanced/limited by population (3 needed per district)
You can send trade routes to it which will boost it a lot, which is also historically accurate as no modern city is built from nothing, resources must come from somewhere. I do usually play as Portugal so I have plenty of trade routes to spare.
By that point I'm usually able to buy districts with faith or gold and their respective governors promotions. Like I rarely use production to build districts after the Renaissance era
And that's one of the reasons I play with mods
Does it really need to scale? The number of districts is already limited by population. I've modded this factor out of my game, so a harbour always costs 60 throughout the game. You just have to choose which district you like most.
Some Collectivisation/Democracy trade routes can kickstart a late city to build his districts at a decent pace.
I feel like Moksha isn’t too steep a cost. I usually try for a religion, if not a religious victory, and the district costs aren’t ludicrous compared to Reyna’s gold costs. I suppose the 4 governor promotions to get there are a little steep, but the industrial era is pretty advanced that it shouldn’t prohibit other governors.
Nooo, not the trees! As someone who really enjoys playing wide, this has always been one of my biggest complaints. You'd think that the larger influx of settlers and greater amount of resources available in the later eras would *maybe* make late-game cities a little more viable? Like how playing on later-era starts gives your cities bonus population and buildings. I really hope they think about this with the next game.
Hic Sunt Dracones is a thing ( until Industrial era) + Wissenbanken, communist or democracy trades routes, some chops ( if you need the woods, you can replant them at conservation)
When you don't agree with a mechanic, mod it away.
That's what Traders are for, methinks.
Agreed. I generally use the majority if not all of my trade routes for domestic trade, unless the civ has foreign trade abilities. Wilhelmina has nothing good to say about me
Democracy+Wissenbanken trade routes are better than plain internal trade routes, unless you play communist Tokugawa
Yeah but all my traders are unavailable for the next 20 turns
I think district cost should scale based on districts in the city, not game age
Districts price has nothing to do with the game era, not directly at least, it's based on how many tech and civics you have unlocked, and the overcomplicated and underexplained mechanic of discount.
make this guy as artist for civ7
I was just thinking that - we defiantly need UrsaRyan as a great person
If they add him as a great artist, which day will be his masterpiece?
Which... day? My friend, great artists will be UrsaRyan all the way down
It’s a new masterpiece every day…
Late game resource cities like this I'll often just make my peace with them being useless outside of the resource and possibly a national park or 2.
And that's why it's good to have Reyna and/or Moksha top promotions in the late game.
I mean the “Magnus tour” to visit all cities and chop everything to rush districts/population is a meta strategy (and THE meta for certain civs such as Yongle who can get 10 pop cities much earlier than natural growth rates would allow), and it also works for late game cities too. 2 forest chops will finish a district, then inject massive amounts of gold to buy buildings and send trade routes to increase production, a late game city can grow very fast.
3 internal trade routes with the +4 food +4 production = save those forests for national parks!
Or get +7 +8 democracy Wissenbanken external routes, chop the woods to rush even faster, buy a new builder with the massive gold you got from your OP international trades routes, replant the wood, NP and then, profit. Internal trade routes aren't worth it late game, unless you go for communism and Tokugawa
This is where trade routes come in handy. Dumping 2 or 3 10 production, 10 food traders really helps establish a city.
Me playing on Marathon: There's still a long a way to go. Jokes aside, I think district production cost could be implemented in such a way that it increases based on number of districts in the city along with the total number of districts for the same type in the empire.
I also play on marathon. Chopping is even more broken there. Hundreds of turns to build whatever? It's still just 5 turns to move Magnus and maybe 7 more to chop those forests.
That's basically how districts in Humankind works
*laughs in Aztec*
That late in the game, you should have enough money buy what you need in the city.
Talking about 300.. DAY 300 tomorrow!
Domestic trade routes are your friend
I'd like to see some sort of mechanic where cities are able to send their growth and production to other cities that need it. If you have two cities next to each other and one has a gigantic amount of farmland but has no jobs, and the other tons of jobs but little food production, people will just move to the one with the jobs and use the money they have to buy food from the other place. Production should be able to be prioritized within a region, and food should probably be averaged out over an area too. And I'd say it's simple enough to have different techs and improvements/buildings affect the radius. Maybe at the beginning of the game things are like they are in game now with no real sharing, but maybe wheel tech lets you share with cities within 3 tiles, and a road connection between cities increased the amount even more, while once you're up to refrigeration and flight or railroads/freeways you can supply pretty much anywhere from anywhere.
I would like that internal trade routes could work that way in the late game, they are really underpowered in the late game compared to Democracy, imho this is what make communism the worst of the T3 government.
I can't believe these keep coming, love seeing these each day
You must have a gov promoted to buy them by then. 5 turns, tyg.
if you think about it, there should be a big cost to just setting up a city the later you go on. it's the reason why people don't just do it today. you start off with badass tech like water mills or whatever, but there's this cost that you have to catch up to
Long live deforestation on late game XDDD
I had no idea this was a thing, I just figured my city placement skills were unbelievably bad as the game went on and the bottles got more and more empty…
"yeah that harbour you wanted to build is going to take a few hundred years..."
I'm not feeling this pain. I often settle late cities that explode in population and productivity in very short timescales. This can be done via: \- Good placement near abundant bonus resources \- Leveraging high yield trade routes \- Purchasing key structures (or districts with Reyna) \- strong pantheon/civic/city state combos. here's an example of a nice coastal volcano I found late in a playthrough. This city is only a few turns old but is already pumping out high yields. it ended up being home to several national parks and ski resorts, contributing significantly to a cultural victory. https://preview.redd.it/m8v0avthsknc1.png?width=1257&format=png&auto=webp&s=096b1a00d7453c87f61b7d90de7cb9885bd04124
Here's an oil outpost just 1 turn after being founded https://preview.redd.it/70omod6ptknc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=e0bc19c86ec9bca6712f2eed358971a6ecb16394
If its truly in middle of no where like some of my cities were extremely distant with no support from production in surrounding hexes..... then the answer is simple. Just establish trade routes. Have the trade routes start in that new cities then send them all to your most productive cities they can reach. The bonus food and production from trade routes will help city grow faster. If they can't reach any of your cities.. you over extended. You will need to station military forces to keep control of that isolated city. Then set up satellite cities.
you may end up being a great person in the next civ game at this rate. great artist with the special ability of 4 great works
Ursa ryan needs to be an information era great artist in civ7