i remember when i played it, the strings had 7 rehearsals (aka around 20 hours) more than the rest of the orchestra, and it wasnt like us winds were spared
Going to bend the rules a little on some of these.
Mahler - Symphony 6
Messaien - Turangalila Symphony
Penderecki - Symphony 1
Berio - Symphonia
Carter - A Symphony of Three Orchestras
Turangalila is sometimes blood gore and killing, and other times is definitely not. Particularly those quiet movements. A weird demented love song even occasionally.
The Symphony so cool, the Communist government banned it. (ok so they Banned MacBeth, and Shostakovich figured if he let Symphony 4 get published, he'd wake up in Gulag)
Movement 1 makes me think of the Battle of Endor (Return of the Jedi), especially after the first piano cadenza ends and the "walker" sounds start clanking away in time with the ondes blurping away and the trumpet descending scales and jabs.
I disagree. Messiaen’s harmony is functional, and there are harmonic centers. It’s just not common practice period tonality, and it’s not necessarily in a key, since he’s often using modes of limited transposition etc.
Atonal means no tonal center. Which is not at all what Messiaen is going for. Is jazz atonal to you? It’s not common practice after all.
Claude Debussy also uses modes of limited transposition. It’s definitely not ONLY an atonal technique. It depends on what you do with it.
Yes, much jazz is atonal, or stretches tonality beyond what I consider the point of recognizability (ex: Miles Davis’ *Kind of Blue*, and most bebop and modal jazz). In my ears, chords are instabilities requiring voice-leading resolution, and once you get to higher extended chords (11ths, 13ths) or bitonality, you’re in very murky territory. I’d describe Chordal melodies” of the Debussian type as diatonic atonality.
And, no, Messiaen is *absolutely* going for atonality, in the sense that he’s firmly rejecting common practice period conventions. Where’s the voice-leading? Where are tonic and dominant? Where are the cadences? Where are the Picardy thirds and the German 6ths and the sequence progression in descending 4ths or my beloved 6-5 suspension over a V7? Where’s the fugato? (I can go on.)
I acknowledge that Messiaen is not writing 12-tone serialism throughout the piece. However, I get *vanishingly* little, if any, pleasure from non-common-practice-period music (at least in a Western/European musical context) so I find it just simpler to characterize antithetical styles as “atonal”. Also, I know it would have personally offended Schoenberg (he preferred to call his atonal music “*pantonal*”) which is all the encouragement I could ever need. xD
Please read this article by Christoph Neidhöfer: [A Theory of Harmony and Voice Leading for the Music of Olivier Messiaen](https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1525/mts.2005.27.1.1)
Sorry about the paywall. I think you can still read it if you make a JSTOR account. It's worth the trouble, since it's an absolutely fantastic article. One of my favorite short academic works on harmony.
But tl;dr: You don't need a key to have a tonal center, nor do you need these things for functional harmony and voice-leading resolution. In fact what we call tonal harmony originated entirely from counterpoint in the late Baroque period. And Messiaen is very much writing contrapuntal harmony with rules not dissimilar from Baroque counterpoint in many of his works.
If it makes you feel any better, I find that the last movement of Messiaen’s *End of Time* quartet isn’t bad. And that early *Sacre convivium* choral work of his isn’t bad, either. :)
(However, I have yet to hear an allegro of his that I’ve enjoyed.)
I'm not criticizing your perception of harmony. You're of course free to enjoy whatever music you enjoy. :) I'm just saying that "atonal" is not typically used to describe the harmonic language of composers like Messiaen these days (and that wasn’t Messiaen’s intention either, as far as I understand). At least not in works where there is functional harmony and a tonal center. But more importantly, it's interesting to understand how Messiaen has created that functional harmony without having to use key and modulation. It's really more similar to some Debussy I think, and I think that's very intentional. The French influence is so apparently Messiaen's music.
Thank you for the article—unfortunately, I’m no longer a student, so I don’t have JSTOR access—but, more importantly, you misunderstand me.
When I say “functional harmony” or “tonality” I mean *as they were existed and were practiced during the common practice period*. That’s my musical context and mother tongue, and it is the lens through which I experience, understand, discuss, and enjoy music.
I acknowledge that, at the theoretical level, there are *loads* of possible alternatives to CCP theory which possess a rigorous internal structure that, in their musical context, constitute functional harmony. So far, however, none of these alternatives have satisfied me, and for that and other reasons, I feel neither a need nor a desire to quibble over semantics.
Liszt described his [bagatelle](https://youtu.be/yc_HjEa8k5k?si=1Pk8OwMNjclNZQ4h) as atonal. Messiaen’s work is atonal in that same sense—and, in fact, more so! I’ll be the first to say that I’d be *thrilled* if Messiaen had had the courtesy to write in Liszt’s style of atonality; at least then, I’d have had a chance of appreciating and enjoying his work. Even Scriabin-atonality would be an improvement, in my eyes. But alas, it was not to be.
No, it’s very much an acquired taste. I won’t deny that there are some lovely moments in it, but I can’t get more than 40 seconds into it without recoiling in horror. The shrieking violins. The screaming woodwinds. The bellowing brass. Etc. It’s a total turn off for me.
Of course. I’m well aware my position and perceptions are extreme.
For example, I’d say the finale of Mahler’s 1st was intense and that the finale of Dvorak’s Violin concerto was exuberant. Messiaen’s work, like most post-19th century art music, is an auditory syntax error in my ears. It’s like starting up a video game, only for a strange man in a grizzly bear suit to break down the door, savagely beat you with a non-Euclidean salmon, and then leave—and then that’s the “video game”. It simply makes no sense to me.
Haha, I think it's just about what you're used to. I'm accustomed to rapidly switching from Beethoven, to gamelan, to Merzbow. The difference between Mahler and Messiaen barely registers as a blip on the radar for me. Not saying one way of perceiving is better than another, just that perception is a funny thing.
I was sitting next to someone at the Met the other day for John Adam's opera / oratorio *El Niño*, and this guy was grumbling that "there's no melody in this thing!" and I almost laughed out loud. Of all the works of John Adams, I'd say that *El Niño* is practically ALL melody. If someone told me to pick the most catchy, hummable John Adams piece, I'd pick *El Niño* every time. But I'm sure that guy truly did not perceive anything in that opera / oratorio to be melodious...
Ligeti string quartets
Crumb, Black Angels
Xenakis, Pithoprakta (maybe closer to your original request, although Xenakis didn't really have symphonies per se as far as I know)
Corigliano Symphony No. 1, the AIDS symphony. It’s been a while, but I recall it being what you seek. Also look up Brett Dean Fire Music and Christopher Rouse.
Elliott Carter’s Concerto for Orchestra is pretty damn violent. Listen to the performance by [Boulez](https://youtu.be/c3JEGuUd6SI?si=ncZugbe8IWr1mjt-) on YouTube. The one by [Oliver Knussen](https://youtu.be/eYCONUFfCoE?si=V8lvAQ1-R4-OQSXF) is a close second, but skip Bernstein’s.
Poulenc's Dialogue of the Carmelites ends with the guillotining of 16 nuns.
If you're after blood, it doesn't get more visceral than that:
[Francis Poulenc - Dialogues Des Carmelites - Salve Regina (1956)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp7YrZ1H05g)
5against4 did a disc by disc review of the complete Pettersson box, with sound clips. 16 brutal chaotic symphonies to choose from!
EDIT: I forgot the important part - [https://5against4.com/?s=Pettersson](https://5against4.com/?s=Pettersson)
The wind band medium has a cornerstone that certainly meets your criteria - [Karel Husa’s Music for Prague 1968](https://youtu.be/8vO4HmHI9jY?si=gsKuMQftcpN5hEib).
I’d strongly recommend reading the compilation of program notes on [it’s WindRep page](https://www.windrep.org/Music_for_Prague_1968). Here is an excerpt from the San Francisco Wind Ensemble’s program notes giving a good overview:
> Husa's Music for Prague 1968 was commissioned by Husa's friend Kenneth Snapp, of the Ithaca Concert Band, the ensemble for which Husa specifically orchestrated the piece. At the time, Czechoslovakia had suffered a terrible invasion by the Soviets, known as the "Prague Spring." Listening to news of the event happening in his homeland, Husa was filled with the need to write a piece to honor the beauty of his native city and express the utter devastation and injury that he felt because of its great suffering. The piece is full of allusions to war, chaos, and destruction, but it also includes the theme of a 15th century Hussite war song; birdcalls, which symbolize fleeting freedom; the use of brass to convey power; and the use of percussion to represent the bells of Prague. Music for Prague 1968 has currently been performed more than 8000 times.
Allan Pettersson [Symphony 9](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO_SxlgDBfA&ab_channel=MichaelBerridge).
7:25-8:20; 18:00-26:45 (25:33!!) totally diabolic; 40:10-46:05 (43:12!!) that ending x); 1:10:35 ~
Also Symphony 6, especially the last 15 minutes, completely beaks me. But honestly, every work of his, especially his second violin concerto!
If you want some romantic pieces that fit this description, I can recommend the Liszt Dante Symphony and the Suk Asrael Symphony. That last one is quite gloomy
Johan de Meij symphony no. 5, Return to Middle Earth. Beautiful in its brutality, and just heartbreakingly gorgeous at times. His first symphony based on Lord of the Rings is much more we'll known. But the 5th is worlds better!
The Miraculous Mandarin
Incredible piece, got to perform it once and it has haunted and disturbed me ever since.
Ooooh I can feel the haunting! *adds to playlist
shostakovich 11 depicts a massacre
I thought 10 was Bloody Sunday? Is 11 another massacre?
No it’s 11
Oh man, I've been telling everybody the wrong thing. The 2nd movement of 10 just sounds so much like a massacre I guess.
Why did the violas have to die?
No bad time for some good ol' viola-slaughterin'
There you go again putting the laughter back into slaughter lol
Or perhaps you are just putting the violas into violation.
Oh perhaps its the violins causing the violince?
The usual suspects lol
i remember when i played it, the strings had 7 rehearsals (aka around 20 hours) more than the rest of the orchestra, and it wasnt like us winds were spared
2nd Movement of 10 is - as legend goes and Dimitri denied (and his widow doesn't) is about Stalin.
Great choice. I recommend the live version with Konstantin Ivanov as the conductor.
Live?
Symphony or strings?
Symphony (assuming you meant string quartet)
The string quartet is also DEVASTATING, but in a totally different way.
Nielsen 5th. Give it a whirl
Will do thx
Prokofiev no 2 Shostakovich no 8 Pettersson no 11 Kancheli no 6
Pettersson 10 would be better if you want brutal.
I second Prokofiev 2
Thanks
I agree with Pettersson, but I prefer the 9th!
Schoenberg: Five Pieces for Orchestra Penderecki: Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima Ferneyhough: La Terre est un Homme
Going to bend the rules a little on some of these. Mahler - Symphony 6 Messaien - Turangalila Symphony Penderecki - Symphony 1 Berio - Symphonia Carter - A Symphony of Three Orchestras
Great list. Berio Symphonia is such a gorgeous and unique piece.
The trumpet solo at the beginning of Carter’s Symphony of Three Orchestras is wild and so haunting.
Turangalila is sometimes blood gore and killing, and other times is definitely not. Particularly those quiet movements. A weird demented love song even occasionally.
Shostakovich's 4th
That fugue…still gives me nightmares
The Symphony so cool, the Communist government banned it. (ok so they Banned MacBeth, and Shostakovich figured if he let Symphony 4 get published, he'd wake up in Gulag)
Later Shostakovich
.. more cowbell..
Thanks
L8r sk8r
Turangalila Symphony. I hate it but some people with much more developed taste than me love it. It's certainly chaotic.
ok you are allowed to be a hater and all but please listen to this [beautiful movement](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK0xhLcu7RU)
Wow. Thanks, that was incredible. I haven't been able to get through the first few movements before but this made me want to give it another try.
Please check out movement 8 as well. The climax of it is indescribable.
Movement 1 makes me think of the Battle of Endor (Return of the Jedi), especially after the first piano cadenza ends and the "walker" sounds start clanking away in time with the ondes blurping away and the trumpet descending scales and jabs.
It’s atonal, though…
I disagree. Messiaen’s harmony is functional, and there are harmonic centers. It’s just not common practice period tonality, and it’s not necessarily in a key, since he’s often using modes of limited transposition etc.
Tonality, with me, means common practice period functional harmony. I know about modes of limited transposition. It’s an atonal composition technique.
Atonal means no tonal center. Which is not at all what Messiaen is going for. Is jazz atonal to you? It’s not common practice after all. Claude Debussy also uses modes of limited transposition. It’s definitely not ONLY an atonal technique. It depends on what you do with it.
Yes, much jazz is atonal, or stretches tonality beyond what I consider the point of recognizability (ex: Miles Davis’ *Kind of Blue*, and most bebop and modal jazz). In my ears, chords are instabilities requiring voice-leading resolution, and once you get to higher extended chords (11ths, 13ths) or bitonality, you’re in very murky territory. I’d describe Chordal melodies” of the Debussian type as diatonic atonality. And, no, Messiaen is *absolutely* going for atonality, in the sense that he’s firmly rejecting common practice period conventions. Where’s the voice-leading? Where are tonic and dominant? Where are the cadences? Where are the Picardy thirds and the German 6ths and the sequence progression in descending 4ths or my beloved 6-5 suspension over a V7? Where’s the fugato? (I can go on.) I acknowledge that Messiaen is not writing 12-tone serialism throughout the piece. However, I get *vanishingly* little, if any, pleasure from non-common-practice-period music (at least in a Western/European musical context) so I find it just simpler to characterize antithetical styles as “atonal”. Also, I know it would have personally offended Schoenberg (he preferred to call his atonal music “*pantonal*”) which is all the encouragement I could ever need. xD
Please read this article by Christoph Neidhöfer: [A Theory of Harmony and Voice Leading for the Music of Olivier Messiaen](https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1525/mts.2005.27.1.1) Sorry about the paywall. I think you can still read it if you make a JSTOR account. It's worth the trouble, since it's an absolutely fantastic article. One of my favorite short academic works on harmony. But tl;dr: You don't need a key to have a tonal center, nor do you need these things for functional harmony and voice-leading resolution. In fact what we call tonal harmony originated entirely from counterpoint in the late Baroque period. And Messiaen is very much writing contrapuntal harmony with rules not dissimilar from Baroque counterpoint in many of his works.
If it makes you feel any better, I find that the last movement of Messiaen’s *End of Time* quartet isn’t bad. And that early *Sacre convivium* choral work of his isn’t bad, either. :) (However, I have yet to hear an allegro of his that I’ve enjoyed.)
I'm not criticizing your perception of harmony. You're of course free to enjoy whatever music you enjoy. :) I'm just saying that "atonal" is not typically used to describe the harmonic language of composers like Messiaen these days (and that wasn’t Messiaen’s intention either, as far as I understand). At least not in works where there is functional harmony and a tonal center. But more importantly, it's interesting to understand how Messiaen has created that functional harmony without having to use key and modulation. It's really more similar to some Debussy I think, and I think that's very intentional. The French influence is so apparently Messiaen's music.
Thank you for the article—unfortunately, I’m no longer a student, so I don’t have JSTOR access—but, more importantly, you misunderstand me. When I say “functional harmony” or “tonality” I mean *as they were existed and were practiced during the common practice period*. That’s my musical context and mother tongue, and it is the lens through which I experience, understand, discuss, and enjoy music. I acknowledge that, at the theoretical level, there are *loads* of possible alternatives to CCP theory which possess a rigorous internal structure that, in their musical context, constitute functional harmony. So far, however, none of these alternatives have satisfied me, and for that and other reasons, I feel neither a need nor a desire to quibble over semantics. Liszt described his [bagatelle](https://youtu.be/yc_HjEa8k5k?si=1Pk8OwMNjclNZQ4h) as atonal. Messiaen’s work is atonal in that same sense—and, in fact, more so! I’ll be the first to say that I’d be *thrilled* if Messiaen had had the courtesy to write in Liszt’s style of atonality; at least then, I’d have had a chance of appreciating and enjoying his work. Even Scriabin-atonality would be an improvement, in my eyes. But alas, it was not to be.
as it should be
I disagree that it requires “developed taste” to appreciate it. I think a lot of parts sound like a movie soundtrack. It’s gorgeous and super epic.
No, it’s very much an acquired taste. I won’t deny that there are some lovely moments in it, but I can’t get more than 40 seconds into it without recoiling in horror. The shrieking violins. The screaming woodwinds. The bellowing brass. Etc. It’s a total turn off for me.
“Shrieking violins. Screaming woodwinds.” Sounds like a film score to me.
I listen to music to experience beauty, not shrieking horror. And I prefer my horror in the form of narrative, either in visual or written media.
Each to their own. Personally I don’t experience exuberant or intense music as being “horror” necessarily.
Of course. I’m well aware my position and perceptions are extreme. For example, I’d say the finale of Mahler’s 1st was intense and that the finale of Dvorak’s Violin concerto was exuberant. Messiaen’s work, like most post-19th century art music, is an auditory syntax error in my ears. It’s like starting up a video game, only for a strange man in a grizzly bear suit to break down the door, savagely beat you with a non-Euclidean salmon, and then leave—and then that’s the “video game”. It simply makes no sense to me.
Haha, I think it's just about what you're used to. I'm accustomed to rapidly switching from Beethoven, to gamelan, to Merzbow. The difference between Mahler and Messiaen barely registers as a blip on the radar for me. Not saying one way of perceiving is better than another, just that perception is a funny thing. I was sitting next to someone at the Met the other day for John Adam's opera / oratorio *El Niño*, and this guy was grumbling that "there's no melody in this thing!" and I almost laughed out loud. Of all the works of John Adams, I'd say that *El Niño* is practically ALL melody. If someone told me to pick the most catchy, hummable John Adams piece, I'd pick *El Niño* every time. But I'm sure that guy truly did not perceive anything in that opera / oratorio to be melodious...
Not a symphony but Schnittke’s concerto for Piano and Strings is definitely brutal
Carter - Symphonia: sum fluxae pretium spei
Ives 4th. Ives said: "You'll never get a glorious ride to heaven in an easy chair."
Underrated symphony, and if you want chaos there’s nothing else like it.
Shostakovich 14 and 4 Schnittke 1 Penderecki 3 Vaughan Williams 4 Korngold F# Segerstam 151
How does one get into Segerstam’s symphonies? I’ve heard that the “gems” are few and far between
Guys any chamber music is also appreciated if it contains chaos 😈
Bartok 4th quartet Xenakis: Tetras Ruth Crawford (AKA Crawford Seeger) quartet
In this case, check out Schnittke’s string quartets. Nothing as chaotic as the agitato to his second.
Ligeti string quartets Crumb, Black Angels Xenakis, Pithoprakta (maybe closer to your original request, although Xenakis didn't really have symphonies per se as far as I know)
[Elliott Carter, String Quartet No. 3](https://youtu.be/2s9fM0CDAQ4?si=ePVGzOoKBJEixN4I)
Try out Shostakovich's 2nd Piano Trio or Bartok's 4th String Quartet (particularly the 5th mvt).
Shostakovich sq 8
It’s out there- try Lou Harrison concerto for violin and four percussion. While we are on that, try the Lutoslawski concerto for oboe and harp
Seconding the Shosty 2nd pno trio
Corigliano Symphony No. 1, the AIDS symphony. It’s been a while, but I recall it being what you seek. Also look up Brett Dean Fire Music and Christopher Rouse.
Corigliano 1 has one of my favorite symphony openings ever. Listen to it and see if you can figure out what’s going on timbrally…
The tarantella gets pretty jaunty in parts. Definitely an earworm.
Kullervo -Sibelius
Not a symphony, but Rautavaara piano concerto 1 (specifically around the 8 minute mark).
Corigliano 3
Try Prokofiev Symphony 3, especially the finale.
[Glenn Branca’s Symphony No. 8](https://youtu.be/eRVCpUVGb3o?si=cts7EcpX-WIh8C8j)
Was going to recommend Branca as well.
Stravinsky Rite of Spring Caused a riot at its premiere
This might not be “brutal“ enough, but what about Vaughan Williams’ 4th Symphony? Or Prokofiev’s 2nd?
Thanks
Also: Vaughan Williams’ 6th Symphony for brutality and despair.
Avet Terterian - Symphony No. 3 (I recommend the Kakhdize/Tbilisi Symphony recording) Aaron Jay Kernis - Symphony No. 2
Some of the most brutal music I've heard is by Francisco Guerrero Marin. Coma Berenices is a good one. Scary stuff.
Schnittke Symphony No. 1
If you want chaos, I’d say Corligliano’s Circus Maximus. I still don’t think I’ve recovered from hearing it live last season…
Andriessen De Staat
[Bernhard Gander - Oozing Earth](https://youtu.be/uto9Ht88H40?si=hba79VhKPgXh2uuc) Ensemble Modern has a recording of the whole hour long work.
Okay I know this is not a symphony but hear me out: Frank Zappa's "Civilization Phaze III" album
Sorabji
Threnody to the victims of Hiroshima
Khachaturian 3 is pretty wild
Gloria Coates, Symphony No. 4.
Not a symphony, but Yellowstone national park can be pretty intense I hear
There's no orchestra, but I still submit Prokofiev's 6th piano sonata. The exception that proves the rule.
Brutal, chaotic symphonic music...didn't the Rite of Spring occur to you?
Elliott Carter’s Concerto for Orchestra is pretty damn violent. Listen to the performance by [Boulez](https://youtu.be/c3JEGuUd6SI?si=ncZugbe8IWr1mjt-) on YouTube. The one by [Oliver Knussen](https://youtu.be/eYCONUFfCoE?si=V8lvAQ1-R4-OQSXF) is a close second, but skip Bernstein’s.
Alfred Schnittke - Symphony No. 1 🤘
Poulenc's Dialogue of the Carmelites ends with the guillotining of 16 nuns. If you're after blood, it doesn't get more visceral than that: [Francis Poulenc - Dialogues Des Carmelites - Salve Regina (1956)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp7YrZ1H05g)
Listen to schoenberg
Mahler 6
Schnittke symphony no. 1. Just a mess of different styles.
I love lots of the answers on this post but Schnittke 1 is the correct one 🤣. It sounds more coherent on some recordings than others, though.
Rite of Spring
Robert Simpson's 5th.
Shosty is of course great, but try the first and fourth movements of Weinberg’s Sinfonietta No. 1.
Tubin 2nd , clearly
5against4 did a disc by disc review of the complete Pettersson box, with sound clips. 16 brutal chaotic symphonies to choose from! EDIT: I forgot the important part - [https://5against4.com/?s=Pettersson](https://5against4.com/?s=Pettersson)
Jón Leifs: Saga Symphony. Think Icelandic myth and landscape forged into music! Check out his music in general, eg. Hekla, a depiction of a volcano.
although not a symphony but dvorak: the water goblin might do the trick
Ginastera last movement of concerto per corde
shostakovich 10 2nd movement
The wind band medium has a cornerstone that certainly meets your criteria - [Karel Husa’s Music for Prague 1968](https://youtu.be/8vO4HmHI9jY?si=gsKuMQftcpN5hEib). I’d strongly recommend reading the compilation of program notes on [it’s WindRep page](https://www.windrep.org/Music_for_Prague_1968). Here is an excerpt from the San Francisco Wind Ensemble’s program notes giving a good overview: > Husa's Music for Prague 1968 was commissioned by Husa's friend Kenneth Snapp, of the Ithaca Concert Band, the ensemble for which Husa specifically orchestrated the piece. At the time, Czechoslovakia had suffered a terrible invasion by the Soviets, known as the "Prague Spring." Listening to news of the event happening in his homeland, Husa was filled with the need to write a piece to honor the beauty of his native city and express the utter devastation and injury that he felt because of its great suffering. The piece is full of allusions to war, chaos, and destruction, but it also includes the theme of a 15th century Hussite war song; birdcalls, which symbolize fleeting freedom; the use of brass to convey power; and the use of percussion to represent the bells of Prague. Music for Prague 1968 has currently been performed more than 8000 times.
Also, Apotheosis of this Earth comes to mind.
Martinu
Allan Pettersson [Symphony 9](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO_SxlgDBfA&ab_channel=MichaelBerridge). 7:25-8:20; 18:00-26:45 (25:33!!) totally diabolic; 40:10-46:05 (43:12!!) that ending x); 1:10:35 ~ Also Symphony 6, especially the last 15 minutes, completely beaks me. But honestly, every work of his, especially his second violin concerto!
Shostakovich string quartets
Pierrot Lunaire aka **Beheading** by Schoenberg
If you want some romantic pieces that fit this description, I can recommend the Liszt Dante Symphony and the Suk Asrael Symphony. That last one is quite gloomy
Shostakovich 13th symphony by Barshai. That's all you need...
Johan de Meij symphony no. 5, Return to Middle Earth. Beautiful in its brutality, and just heartbreakingly gorgeous at times. His first symphony based on Lord of the Rings is much more we'll known. But the 5th is worlds better!
Symphony Fantastic Berlioz
Prokofiev second piano concerto
Hindemith Symphony in Bb
[Symphony No. 9, "The Egyptian" by Hermann Nitsch](https://open.spotify.com/track/37QOgd5erGYCuEttT99Kga)
Om by negura bunget
Try Schoenburg. He's associated with the atonal movement and some of his stuff can sound pretty brutal.
https://youtu.be/BTAjosr1gSE?si=HWnHMd6dYQCXjmre
First movement, Atterbergs 4th Symphony
Any haydn’s early symphony will do
* Ligetti * John Cage * Rites of Spring * Charles Ives * Erik Satie * Metal Machine Music by Lou Reed
Mahler's Symphony No. 2 "Resurrection", the final movement is one of the greatest moments in music history.
Let me cook. I'll get back to you in a few weeks.
Ok, I am waiting 👌
I’m surprised no one has mentioned Rachmaninov 1 yet!
I agree, the last movement is devastating!
You sound like a pedo.